veteran-class

[trim hemlock]

If 2 people have it, at least 1 person is having a dead skill

[jaunty sphinx]

I always have it lol

One dead node is fine idc

[trim hemlock]

[grand perch]

yeah it would be nice if they had some kind of stacking effect but its no big deal

[jaunty sphinx]

I'd rather have a dead node by double stacking then have to gamble with random vets

It's too clutch

[somber axle]

with friends or a coordinated pug that uses voice it could make for some very funny moments

[trim hemlock]

I don’t think it’s a huge deal regardless

It’s nice if it’s there, but the game doesn’t become impossible if somebody doesn’t have it

[somber axle]

idk if it is still the case but I remember someone did testing and showed video evidence that the perk is only active if the vet with the perk is alive

if the vet goes down the perk goes inactive and medipacs/ammo crates no longer give the bonuses

[grand perch]

im pretty sure thats how that works yeah

[somber axle]

so it has a very, very niche use case in that one of the vets goes down and the other can still give the benefit but yeah it's better to just have one vet with it vs two

but generally most vets don't run it in quickplay as far as I've seen

so if you're running it you're pretty safe to believe you're the only one with it

[somber axle]

technically nothing is impossible with enough skill since a group of players ran Auric Damnation with all grey items

[trim hemlock]

I’ll give this skill that much: its validity can grow exponentially if people are aware that someone has it

[somber axle]

you can do whatever you want however you want

[trim hemlock]

Ogryn having a personal ammo crate for a quick nuke replenishment (or being greedy and up to 4? )? Sign me up.

[somber axle]

Lucius Mk II Vet with the right build goes ammo positive on missions so it would be extra funny letting an ogryn just eat an entire ammo pack to wipe out entire rooms repeatedly

[agile forge]

I guess it's a good idea to always state that you have it

(unless you don't)

[gleaming lynx]

@tall torrent any idea if the Lucius Mk II "Falter" blessing (ignore 90% stagger resistance on Weak Spot Hit) applies to the bayonet hits as well?

and thanks for the guide write up, it's really useful

[loud oyster]

Main issue is I have with improved field kit is that it replenishes nades on ammo crates... when vets have a "replenish 1 nade every minute" talent as well.

[trim hemlock]

The main value of that effect is to improve grenade uptime of other classes, like Zealot and Ogryn

[loud oyster]

Honestly, zealot shouldn't be spamming nades anyway and I see A LOT of Ogryns running rocks instead of nades.

[grand perch]

Not a 100% sure but I think they get rocks back too

[lyric dock]

It used to give ogryns a full rock refil as well, but as of the recent patch. It got snuffed out

[lyric dock]

While vets do replenish nades every minute, but is nice to instantly refill your grenades in a pinch if you have the skill or another vet is running it

[grand perch]

That made big man sad

[dire olive]

Need more rock pals

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1046914161923334214/1164407829252280390/rok.gif?ex=660e214c&is=65fbac4c&hm=26f61de8d2f924a0a58866c7c652f6d594e0803f87b355bacc3e233a7a3285d1&

[austere pine]

i feel the need to satisfy any vet who runs that talent

[austere pine]

shouldnt be spamming nades, sure, but i find myself in situations where im out of grenades and id love to use them way too often

[pastel geode]

Did the cosmetic store update this morning?

[unkempt quartz]

How important is stopping power for the Plasma gun?

[fierce steeple]

next week™️

[agile forge]

Very very important iirc

Most important stat maybe?

[unkempt quartz]

I thought thermal resistance was.... crap

I'm trying to debate which one to use ;-;

[dire olive]

Get a new one

[unkempt quartz]

So don't use either?!

[dire olive]

Question

Are you level 30

[unkempt quartz]

Yes

[dire olive]

Then getting one above 340 base stats shouldn't be hard

Perks are kinda bad

Shattering isn't that good

[unkempt quartz]

I main my Zealot, I don't know much about veteran stuff but I am trying to learn cause he is pretty cool

[grand perch]

Tbh I wouldn't bother with base stats lower than 360

[dire olive]

^

[grand perch]

Easy enough to get those from brunt

[dire olive]

Plasma especially it doesn't really have a super dumpy stat

[unkempt quartz]

Using the mystery I've gotten way worse, and I haven't seen too many plasma's in the normal stuff

I do have like, 2.5 million coins, so I could just keep trying on mystery ones

[dire olive]

Do that

That's what coins are for

[grand perch]

If you're using mods there's one that keeps buying and selling greys until you get one of desired base stats minimum

Forget the name right now tho

[plush hound]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[unkempt quartz]

I haven't tried mods yet, been debating on it

I just dunno how tbh

[dire olive]

It's pretty easy, and there's guides

[unkempt quartz]

Doesn't modding any game like, mess with your pc?

[dire olive]

No

[unkempt quartz]

Oh.... that's what some friends told me

[dire olive]

They're not hacks from some shady website

They're just client side utility/cosmetic mods

[unkempt quartz]

Oh ok

[dire olive]

You can look up Darktide Mod Loader on the nexusmods website and it will have all the instructions needed

[unkempt quartz]

I'll look into it+

[grand perch]

"buy until rating" is the mod i meant

[unkempt quartz]

I got these 2, do I automatically just go with higher rating?

[grand perch]

terrible ammo stat or mediocre damage stat...really not sure how theyd perform, but if you dont wanna keep rolling, i think id got with the 374 base stat?

[unkempt quartz]

I mean I could keep rolling, I only spent 400kish coins for those, but again, I still have over 2 mil coins and never use them lmao

[gleaming lynx]

ammo is not a priority for plasma gun but damage is, i'd reroll

it's normal to spend over a mil on a good roll

though tbh plasma carries itself even with bad rolls

[unkempt quartz]

Tbh I tend to use bolt gun or plasma, but main my chainsword, and only pull out the gun for elites and stuff. I don't wanna waste ammo on maggoty dudes, especially when they swarm. I tend to lean melee for darktide, but I love the abilities and gun for veteran. I prefer Zealot still, but I like changing it up sometimes

[dreamy spade]

Stopping power is the one you want lowest on plasma

[trim hemlock]

What? Why?

[gleaming lynx]

this is just wrong...stopping power on plasma gun is great to knock down big fellas standing close together

[dreamy spade]

The only enemies is useful against is slow moving tanks like maulers and crushers who arent one shot

[gleaming lynx]

and on auric, there's too many of them to kill them quickly, so stagger helps your team not get crushed

[lyric dock]

Last thing you need is a crusher horde to get a few inches closer to you

[dreamy spade]

My build uses krak and keeping distance so in most cases its fine

[gleaming lynx]

which weapons do you find are underrated for veteran?

[grand perch]

Underused - the three head hunters

Underrated...dunno, probably shotguns

[trim hemlock]

Helbro. I see very little Helbro being used.

[gleaming lynx]

helbro mk2 is my fav

[trim hemlock]

And also probably Bolter

[gleaming lynx]

what kind of build would you make around a headhunter?

[grand perch]

On vet, crit chance and crit damage focussed

[gleaming lynx]

Marksman's or Focus target?

[grand perch]

Surgical and deadly accurate is my pick

Skills mostly left tree

[gleaming lynx]

Does anyone here play with the Catachan combat sword? Can you please tell me how to properly use the parry special

[hoary horizon]

Ulgo saw sword in action. Was very Kor! Lotsa heretic die!

[grand perch]

Parrying shortly before the attack his you costs way less stamina than if you parry too early

Parrying is affected by block stamina modifier

[hoary horizon]

[grand perch]

Keep your invisible crosshair over their head because your parry hits where you aim

[hoary horizon]

[grand perch]

You can parry hits from behind but it costs a lot of stamina

[hoary horizon]

Okay. What happen if no stamina

No parry?

[grand perch]

And lastly, iirc, you only parry 1 attack, ragers may hit twice with 1 attack so some damage may go through

[hoary horizon]

So parry and dodge?

[grand perch]

Don't remember what happens with no stamina

[hoary horizon]

Remind me of Dark Soul

[grand perch]

If you can time it right,I think that's the way to go

[hoary horizon]

Got it thank you boss!

[grand perch]

Oh, lastly, you can parry just about everything, even the stomp of boss ogryns, but not grabs or pouncing hounds

[gleaming lynx]

so you hold block, then parry when the attack comes in? or just bring up parry when the attack comes

[grand perch]

Just parry when the attack is about to hit

Doesn't matter if you block or not before

[plush hound]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[grand perch]

Skill issue imo, but they are just about the hardest guns to use efficiently

[trim hemlock]

They are definitely good, but comparing anything to Plasma or Revolver, or CIAG makes for an unfair comparison

It’s a gun that is precise, has a drawback and a very useful accessory on special action (except Mk3, which is kind of garbage )

[gleaming lynx]

I definitely have an easier time with the plasma, but I think it's viable, just need to plink heads

I think it's worth killing less stuff and taking your time to plink heads with charged shots

'specially those pesky gunners

[dire olive]

I personally despise the pullout time but you can avoid it with the bayonet

I don't like being forced to play that way but it's an option

[gleaming lynx]

for the pullout time, I think it's best to avoid switching to melee with it unless you REALLY need to

[grand perch]

Mk3s bayonet IS trash but it's occasionally useful for dispatching one or two basic enemies so you don't have to go through the switch animation again

[gleaming lynx]

Mk2 and Mk1 bayonets are quick enough and stagger enough to handle most trash that comes your way and reposition behind a meatshield

[dire olive]

They're kind of a Marmite gun tbh you'll either love them or hate them

[grand perch]

Soft disagree, it's just an acquired taste

[gusty bison]

They are the best lasgun atm

[plush hound]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[gusty bison]

And one of the best guns other than the OP trio

[gusty bison]

Theres three ways to mitigate the pullout time

[agile forge]

You circumvent the pull time by using the bayonet

Your melee only needs to be anticrusher really

[dire olive]

Eeeeh, I've given them more than their fair shake but I think chargeable snipers in games have never really grabbed me in general

[gusty bison]

1. Use the bayo more its really good.

2. Dodge when ur swapping. This removes the vulnerability when pulling the gun out

3. Learn to shoot the gun while in melee, it has insane stabiluty when dodging

[plush hound]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[dire olive]

Bayo

Bayonaise

[gusty bison]

Their damage is top notch btw

Cos their entire thing is being able to 1 shot most elites

Plasma isnt a fair comparison and columnus is a different type of gun entirely

[grand perch]

With MK3, you don't need anti crusher melee... But I still go with the folding shovel to have the option

[gusty bison]

You dont need anti crusher melee with any of the hbs

They all pen cara

[gusty bison]

Oh and ye exec stance does nothing for HB

[dire olive]

Unironically OG shovel is kind of good with it

Lots of control

[gusty bison]

Good thing that helbore isnt a sniper

[dire olive]

Well, "sniper"

You know what I mean

[gusty bison]

Fair

[dire olive]

Big damage single shot gun

[gusty bison]

But oh yea, please dont make the mistake of staying in the back with a HB

[plush hound]

One message removed from a suspended account.

One message removed from a suspended account.

One message removed from a suspended account.

[grand perch]

Wdym? With unmodded sights, exec stance helps a lot with target acquisition.

Haven't run the numbers on breakpoints but there's got to be some you reach with the extra damage

[tame lodge]

Stab the shields in assassination mission

[lyric dock]

It'll shread through the shield and then follow up with headshots

Repeat until dead target

[gusty bison]

Just use the tag button. It does the same thing

[pearl granite]

have we got new cosmetic yet?

[gusty bison]

And surprisingly... no

The HB kinda reaches all the major BPs non assisted

[grand perch]

And that's across all Helbores at various charge levels?

[lyric dock]

Yeah

[grand perch]

Damn I gotta rethink my Hb marksman build

[lyric dock]

This my HB 2 build I run. I may adjust some points around 1 day, but it gets the job done

[limber egret]

hey whats the new cosmetics in the shop currently?

i cant check currently so can someone post picture of them?

[trim hemlock]

There are none, there is a delay

[gaunt delta]

It’ll be posted in https://discord.com/channels/727074276724965407/1153279327513886770 probably, when it goes up

As long as there’s a gamer willing to screenshot it for the greater good

[plush hound]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[lyric dock]

MK2

Has the fastest charge time of the Trio and fast Bayo stab

I do love my MK2

[tall torrent]

[tall torrent]

It’s specified as “ranged weakspot hit” so no

[grand perch]

i tested around a bit and its true. only edge cases where exec stance might shave off 1 hit or 2 on my build, depending on crits

like reapers are a sure oneshot on my mk3 with exec but only a oneshot with a crit without exec

[lyric dock]

Okay Big E

You been awfully generous as of late

[grand perch]

mobility 46%, comes with a wheelchair

[lyric dock]

That's sub 40% mobility

Sub 20% Mobility a Ogryn carries you around

[tall torrent]

Harvest HH4

[lyric dock]

Already grinded down for parts

[limber egret]

oh Oof

[tall torrent]

Check my document for Helbore (page 36~37)

Mk3 has best dmg and can 1 tap everything except mutants, crushers & maulers

Mk2 has balanced dmg and can 1 tap gunners, shotgunners, all specialists except flamers (need crit HS with +maniac), but can’t 1 tap ragers without crit

Mk1 can 1 tap scab rager non-crit with +elite, and with +maniac it could 1 tap headshot flamers without crit (needs to be at a distance)

[tall torrent]

it can get some better breakpoints

Mk1 gets reaper 1hs without +unyielding

Mk2 gets flamer 1hs without crit (distance needed)

[unreal bone]

Alright peeps what dogshit did they put in the store today

Anyone post the new shop rotation anywhere

[tall torrent]

no rotation today

[unreal bone]

What

It’s rotation day though

[tall torrent]

yea, no rotation today

there's no update/hotfix to add new stuff

[trim hemlock]

It’s supposedly delayed

[unreal bone]

You’re kidding me

https://tenor.com/view/orange-cat-stare-gif-18177876402917143905

They can’t even push out a shitty outfit recolor on time now

I’m going back to helldivers 2 where the devs are actually alive.

[gaunt delta]

One more punch on my “game ded” card and I’ll get a free brick from Hadron! Yay!

[unreal bone]

Bruh nah I’m not saying game ded im saying the devs are ded

Big difference

[gaunt delta]

How exactly?

What’s the difference?

[gusty bison]

Mk 2 already gets flamer 1hs

Without crit

Does need some distance

But with the right build the 1 tap range is about 11-14m.

It can go up to rager 1 taps with focus target as well

[gusty bison]

Generally other than HB 3 ur usually firing om full charge to get onslaught going

So you usually only look at bps at full charge

[tall torrent]

Needs a lot of distance

[gusty bison]

Just 11-14m

[tall torrent]

Best way to do it is agile engagement

[gusty bison]

Agile usually sends u clean over ye

[tall torrent]

Maniac is still more consistent and gives mutant 2 shot with bayonet

Also trapper bodyshot

[gusty bison]

+Maniac +Elite I think is ideal HB 2?

[tall torrent]

Unarmored for dreg gunner

[gusty bison]

• Maniac + Unrmoured is a very close 2nd place

I thonk dreg gunner is reachable with + elite

[tall torrent]

Elite doesn’t give anything notable iirc

[gusty bison]

But requires FT

FT sends u over Dreg Gunner BP

[tall torrent]

Elite needs longshot/RF/FT

[gusty bison]

But FT is basically guaranteed since u only need 2 stacks

And u always have 2 stacks

Unarmoured is better if u dont wanna go FT

[tall torrent]

Unarmored is better if you don’t want to have to spend on RF

[gusty bison]

That too

[tall torrent]

Having to tag every single gunner for 1HS is pretty painful

[gusty bison]

I tag everything i shoot with hb anyway

For the visibility

So to me its no biggy

[tall torrent]

Saving a point for target down is more value

[gusty bison]

Frankly i dont go FT at all with HB personally

[tall torrent]

Marksman focus works fine

[gusty bison]

But i do think FT is better for most people.

MF is fine ye but i dont do that eithet

I usually run HB without keystone

Since I can then grab all the melee skills

And more tou regen

Heres my HB build

[tall torrent]

no TDR

Oh nvm exhilarating takedown ig

[terse idol]

VOC

[cloud falcon]

Krak vs Frag grenade overview? Pros and cons?

[lyric dock]

Frag

• Is free stun nearly on demand
• Bleed procs soften enemies up
• Has a pretty good range

Krak

• A personal fuck you to a crusher or Bulwark

[trim hemlock]

Frag is versatile and makes space by controlling crowds of enemies and its explosion delay allows for potential “cooking” in advance. It cannot damage Carapace very reliably, but is much better at damaging/controlling mixed groups of enemies and/or elites.

Krak makes space by exploding Flak/Unyielding/Carapace things, and can severely damage bosses if so desired. Great for quickly removing one or a couple of enemies from an approaching Ogryn vanguard.

[cloud falcon]

Okay, so it's not my imagination that frags have better radius lol

[trim hemlock]

Krak has basically no area of effect

[tall torrent]

Frag
Pros: wipes hordes
Cons: they’re so good that you kinda want to take both grenade regen talents to have a steady supply of them

Krak
Pros: removes bulwarks & crushers when ur loadout isn’t equipped for it, also ok boss dmg
Cons: low AoE, low capacity, not good against most enemies

[lyric dock]

Kraks can only kill more than 1 crusher or bulwark if they're on top of each other

[old quail]

https://streamable.com/v7h3ci

sometimes u can VALUE the kraks

[cloud falcon]

Is Krak a bit redundant with plasma? They both lean towards big armour murder

[old quail]

and kill like 6 dudes

[lavish solar]

Frags feel more like utility tools than a damage source imo

But that may be just me

[woeful galleon]

By far, you'll get 1 target, just hurt it more. Good for removing 1 big bad

[lyric dock]

Sometimes the stars line up and you get 3 crushers for the price of 1 Krak

Other times you use 2 kraks and get 0 kills since your targets die before the Krak goes boom

[cloud falcon]

I've gotten this feeling a lot using it yes. Like a boomier zealot stun grenade

[trim hemlock]

It kind of depends on how comfortable you are with shooting crushers with Plasma instead of just kraking them

[lyric dock]

The only real reason you run Kraks is if you have a loadout with 0 anti-crusher

[lavish solar]

Or memeing on bosses (

[hollow ibex]

Frags can kill pretty reliably

[lyric dock]

It does a good chunk on bossess

[tall torrent]

Throw 2

[hollow ibex]

Depending on the crowd you may have to throw 2

[cloud falcon]

The reason I ask is I have a build I really wanna use but if I go frag I don't have enough points. Trying to decide if I want to switch grenades or drop a point somewhere.

[tall torrent]

Bleed relies on high stack to deal dmg

Refer to pinned message for breakdown on talents & weapons

[lavish solar]

Yeah it’s just that I usually tend to use it more for cc

[hollow ibex]

Yeah the bleed on two frags absolutely fucks

[tall torrent]

[lyric dock]

It's why you frags in pairs

Frags are a couple. They should be together

[woeful galleon]

Yup, I keep 2 vet builds, 1 meant to kill specials, tagging bosses and making them disappear with kraks, or one more reliable that at most uses frags to bleed bosses while everyone does their part

[tall torrent]

I finally have a decently comprehensive guide that I can point people towards

[lavish solar]

Don’t get me wrong if I see a group of gunners they’re definitely getting 2 frags to the face

[lyric dock]

Only time you use 1 frag is when you need to CC a group of enemies to give yourself space to get out a bad spot or make a revive if VOC is on cool down

[cloud falcon]

Hmm interesting

Didn't realize two is ideal

[lavish solar]

So building on this, how useful is having a maximum of 4 frags vs 3 (can throw out 2 frags 2times in quick succession?)

[tall torrent]

It’s usually better to take demo stockpile + demo team for a constant stream of grenade supplies than to get +1 nade

You very often won’t have enough points to get +1 nade

[lavish solar]

True

[lyric dock]

Vets don't really have the budget to really flex on builds like other classes

[tall torrent]

Ngl I used to think that but I think all 4 classes are fairly equal in terms of point economy

Psyker has the best time with excess points but psyker is also very point starved if u want to optimize for meta (soulblaze + warp charges)

Zealot is just hard taxed because like veteran you’re also kind of forced to go left most of the time

[bitter turtle]

its useful but its hard to afford that pointn

as mentioned

[lavish solar]

Fair enough, thanks!

[bitter turtle]

since you often throw frags in pairs though

if you CAN afford it (because you're doing stealth build or something) its definitely worth to go from 3->4 in reserve

i just wouldnt go out of my way and drop 2 points on it on most builds is all

[white minnow]

there's a scenario where the point cost for it is worth it if you're running the Columnus iag because of the crit chance node actually contributing a fair bit to your damage

[tall torrent]

Usually you take +5% crit chance node if you don’t want to bother with deadshot’s stamina drain effects

In which case +1 nade isn’t that bad

I’d still prioritize double regen over +1 nade

[midnight totem]

melee crit at 20 base is pretty impressive if you take the crit node and desperado

but for shooty builds deadshot is much better

[dreamy spade]

Is +10% crit damage good with get hot?

[tall torrent]

No

[dreamy spade]

Does it increase the multiplier or the overall damage?

[tall torrent]

+crit dmg only applies to the “bonus dmg” u gain from getting a critical hit (compared to base dmg)

And plasma has low finesse

[dreamy spade]

Oh right

[tall torrent]

Refer to my document on breakdowns

[dreamy spade]

idk what to use for my build then lol

[tall torrent]

Pinned in this channel

[tall torrent]

Also exe stance isn’t the greatest with plasma

[dreamy spade]

Shovel >>

[agile forge]

Plasma is good with (somebody else's modified) e stance >_>

(Just not mine since I use the selfish nodes only lmao)

[dreamy spade]

Well the whole point in my build is to focus solely on the elites/specialists which makes no sense to enhanced target because i want my teammates to focus on the normal troops

[agile forge]

My plasma build just uses VoC

Feel like you get the most boost out of that

Cba playing with variable breakpoints on a slow weapon like Plasma

[dreamy spade]

I've been in stance for like 1 minute while being constantly hit by ememies because as long as I'm weakshot killing elites or specialists I'm good

[agile forge]

I keep E stance for leadspewers that need the suppression resist and accuracy boost

OK but what has that stance really been doing for you?

[dreamy spade]

Yes lol

25% ranged damaged + 25% weakspot, spots out all the elites and specials for me which also allows me to keep it going and shoot them through walls

It's even more useful with low visibility or when there is a horde in fron blocked your line of sight

[agile forge]

I guess with plasma I'm just ping spamming for target acquisition

Also I avoid low vis missions like the pox

[worn relic]

hello folks

looking for someone who can 100% surely do the twins mission on damnation and do so with me in their party

I only ask here bc I see there is activity here

[dreamy spade]

Probably best to find a zealot sweat

That mission is heavily zealot sided

[worn relic]

thanks for the tip hermano

[agile forge]

Or ogryn

Ogryn are great on that mission too, all kinds of ogryn

Well mostly tank and gun

[dreamy spade]

I dont think ogyrns are needed tbh

Sorry ulgo

[agile forge]

I think if you're good you could do it on quad psyker lmao

[dreamy spade]

I tried it with purga and it was painful

[agile forge]

(I don't advocate for doing it on quad psyker btw)

[wanton dawn]

gunlugger ogryn being the best boss dps on twin
FT VoC ammo box vet being arguably the best support class on twin
heavily zealot sided

Wat ?

[agile forge]

I think 1 zealot is a good take too tbh

It's just that middle aura fucking sucks to path to

[trim hemlock]

paths through SoC

[agile forge]

But the invuln ult is great

[trim hemlock]

(Not like it’s the only one remotely good skill in that part of the tree)

[tall torrent]

Who wrote this

[wanton dawn]

Vet+ogryn is me. Look above for zealot

[tall torrent]

Wait is this supposed to be “bad take” or “good take”

[wanton dawn]

I think saying that twins is heavily zealot sided is very arguable take

If anything it would be ogryn sided

[tall torrent]

Having a taunt ogryn is pretty huge in that fight

[dreamy spade]

Well it's certainly not for psyker

[tall torrent]

If there’s a veteran for nade regen then zealot fire nades have pretty high value

[dreamy spade]

Vet you have to have a build that focuses on melee

[tall torrent]

Not really

Having an ogryn as lynchpin is pretty high value tho

[wanton dawn]

Psyker is arguably the weak link on twins

[agile forge]

It's good to have some shooters too

But frankly every build needs to be able to sustain themselves in melee

[tall torrent]

Psyker is the weakest link overall but blaze trauma can def put in work

[agile forge]

Although tbf in twins you need to be able to sustain against elites in melee which is more of a specialised role in normal play

[serene bough]

I find vet w/ VoC and Field improv + ammo box is pretty potent for twins fight

[agile forge]

I imagine gunker would do very well

And I can see a use for all the psyker ults

I can see smite being good too

[serene bough]

As long as vet only uses the box you can wipe out the mauler spam

[wanton dawn]

It is good but in my experience vet lacks boss dps so you rather have 1 only

[tall torrent]

Zealot fire nades are debatably more value there

[agile forge]

Depends on the weapons and build tbh

[tall torrent]

Since you’re gonna have double nade green anyways

[serene bough]

When I did the fight long ago I used a shotgun, and maxed out shredder frags w/ all nade perks

[lament glade]

anyone know when comodore vestures is getting rerolled

[agile forge]

CIAG Vet does a lot of damage

[wanton dawn]

Cant beat gunlugger

[tall torrent]

The easiest time we had was 2 ogryn + 1 vet (me) + 1 zealot

[serene bough]

Idk how much fire damage the nades do against maulers but 2-3 shredders definitely had the most impact against armored enemies

[wanton dawn]

My easiest was 1 vet 3 ogryn

[agile forge]

True. Best build overall for this imo

[wanton dawn]

In pubs

[agile forge]

I was advocating for focusing ogryn for it

[serene bough]

In pugs I prefer 1 vet 1 oggy 2 zealots

1 oggy bc its easy for people to find and regroup on ogryn bc of size

[tall torrent]

Without uncanny strike frags don’t really wipe crushers, and they don’t do enough dmg to outright kill ragers & maulers by themselves

[serene bough]

Zealots in general just bring good melee dps and vets are support

3 shredders will kill maulers

[tall torrent]

And with taunt ogryn holding enemies in place, fire nades can cook basically everything short of crushers

[serene bough]

Sounds like a lot, but there's lots of grenade regen, box is there for insurance

[wanton dawn]

Frags bomb has more value

Its a full reset

[tall torrent]

When we did it, we only used frag bombs for a clutch res iirc

[serene bough]

3 shredders just wipe the room sans crushers

[tall torrent]

Don’t trade blows when it’s hitting u

[serene bough]

And since I was support I brought shotgun to stagger crushers and ragers if frags didn't do the trick

[wanton dawn]

Bait overhead

[midnight totem]

Let it eat you and saw it from the inside

[tall torrent]

Block & dodge as much as u can, get hits in between its attacks

But don’t directly trade blows when he’s hitting u

[wanton dawn]

Do not special

Anim lock will kill you

[serene bough]

Can't you dodge out of the animation currently?

[tall torrent]

Drains stamina

[serene bough]

I'd only special to apply bloodletter

Ah I see

[tall torrent]

You need stamina to block attacks

[serene bough]

Yeah makes sense

[tall torrent]

Also bloodletter only 6 bleed stacks for evicerator

It’s very sad

Whatever comes out fast, use that

[midnight totem]

Well I feel ripped off. High int vent purge

[serene bough]

If you're being focused by a chaos spawn (or bosses in general) its better to take no damage and animation lock them so your team has breathing room, even if it means you're gonna be tickling them with light attacks

[wanton dawn]

I dont play enough chsword to be sure of best way. I mostly trained against spawn with bayonet

[midnight totem]

Only 26k dockets

[wanton dawn]

I am very good against spawn with bayonet

[midnight totem]

Feels like we should've got at least 30k for how stressful fun that was

[serene bough]

Chain sword w/ serated blade + bloodletter used to be pretty good consistent boss damage before they toned bleed a bit

Apply full stack of bleed then spam light

[wanton dawn]

If you wanna kill boss fast in melee you probably want ps6, knife, combat axe or bayo

[tall torrent]

The issue is zealot doesn’t have as reliable boss stagger outside of relic

[midnight totem]

It's still decent damage, bloodletter that is

[tall torrent]

Pretty sure stun has no effect on bosses

And he’s running evicerator here

[midnight totem]

Oh

[tall torrent]

So bloodletter is far less useful

[serene bough]

Oh were talking zealot

Didn't realize

[wanton dawn]

WE ARE TALKING ZEALOT ?!

AM LEAVING

[serene bough]

Goodbye

[wanton dawn]

[tall torrent]

Evicerator

[serene bough]

You will be missed

[midnight totem]

Why leave

This is vet chat

[serene bough]

Zealots stinky

[midnight totem]

Zealot leave >(

(I kid, I think the fem vet likes you)

[wanton dawn]

I DONT

[serene bough]

I remember the early days when vet chat used to be the pit of degeneracy

[wanton dawn]

https://tenor.com/view/grimace-clint-eastwood-gran-torino-yuck-eww-gif-4412827

[serene bough]

Those were savage times

[wanton dawn]

I kinda remember but i was not a dweller back then

[serene bough]

I flipped between vet & oggy and all I remember about vet chat was femboys and frogs

[tribal tangle]

imagine not playing other classes 🗿

[wanton dawn]

I literally dont have other class at 30

[serene bough]

I dont have a maxed zealot or psyker

[wanton dawn]

My vet is lvl 1k3

[serene bough]

Oggy is some 200-300 level range and vet is about to break 800

[gray finch]

damn

[tall torrent]

I play the other 3 classes because I bought the whole game I’m gonna play the whole game

[gray finch]

i dont even know how much i got in vet

[wanton dawn]

Am 50k from 1m kill banners

[serene bough]

Im guilty of hyperfixing on one class/playstyle when I play games

[wanton dawn]

Dont have the mod ?

[tall torrent]

Damn nice

I’m pretty far off, recently just crossed 500k

[gray finch]

i remove it i got some fps straggle

i will check

[wanton dawn]

Am still terrible anyway

[serene bough]

I think im at 750k

[serene bough]

That penance is such a grind

[wanton dawn]

Not surprised at all

[serene bough]

Im really worried they'll change it in the penance rework they're talking about

[gray finch]

and 800 on zealot

[wanton dawn]

Rofl

[gray finch]

i have seen a person with all cahracter on lvl 1000+

and i seen him like only on the beggining of the game

and i can see him n ow

its like he spend 3k h on boting

[wanton dawn]

I do see some higher lvl dude from time to time but it certainly not common

[gray finch]

he once got like 500 h in 2weeks

on steam

[dreamy spade]

Has there been a debate on what the best perks and blessings are for plasma?

[wanton dawn]

Jesus

[gray finch]

but you can just set 2 bots to do all the job in 5 minutes

[wanton dawn]

Get hot/blaze, perk is flex

[gray finch]

TAS work prob

[tall torrent]

Flak + elite
Gets hot + blaze away / gloryhunter

[wanton dawn]

Well, to each its own ig

I like to play

[dreamy spade]

But the finesse modifer for plasma is trash, i also dont have crit multipliers on my build, nonetheless 90% of my shots are fired at high heat

[wanton dawn]

Get hot is still more than 10% dps increase average over a full game

[tall torrent]

Gets hot is for crit bodyshot 1 taps

[dreamy spade]

Blaze away is good apart from the fact you literally have to hammer to keep it going, and it only reaches lvl3

[tall torrent]

Blaze away has +cleave against elite waves

You vent a bit more to magdump more

And more dmg in magdump situations

[wanton dawn]

Just because finesse mod is trash doesnt mean 50% crit is bad

[gray finch]

i was playing zealot and he was playing his zealot with 400+ more levels and it was a mirror zealot i manage to got 150k more dmg them him

[dreamy spade]

Yeah but i try to get everything to compliment each other, so i would get +10% crit damage and chance, and deadshot

[wanton dawn]

Deadshot not work with plasma

[wanton dawn]

I dont trust ultra high lvl ppl

[dreamy spade]

this is my plasma

[tall torrent]

Please don’t actually play that combo

You don’t need +crit dmg perks in this game

Basically ever

[gray finch]

zealot are the worst since there is a 90% chance they will not help team at all stealth away and have fun with horde + 10 crushers

[wanton dawn]

Either that or psyker somehow

High lvl psyker are weird fellow

[gray finch]

do understand psyker since 1 mistake they take it can be deadly to they as well as vets(unless VoC)

[cloud falcon]

If you're a high level zealot running off solo and not doing all the objectives like the invincible little crack rabbit you have the capacity to be while your team is dealing with trash what are you doing with your life

[umbral scaffold]

i dealt with a 10 crusher horde before and it was horrifying being in the middle

[wanton dawn]

Psyker have weird tech in their kit

[dreamy spade]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9b79caba-822d-43ea-b6a2-5b8d7a880451/plasma-vet-10 this is my build

[tall torrent]

Psyker has the most broken ability interaction in this game

[tall torrent]

I don’t even know where to start with that

[umbral scaffold]

damn

[tall torrent]

Please just read the guide I posted this morning

[orchid nacelle]

guys, who can upload their build to Lucius Lasgun ))

[wanton dawn]

High lvl zealot are concentrated zealot. High lvl psyker are... also zealot

[tall torrent]

Which one

[warm olive]

so I have to ask, and I know the question will seem noobish but whtever, how do you guys (veteran or any gun user rly ) deals with Ogryn rushing in tight corridor maps ? like you know what problem i'm refering to I think xd

[cloud falcon]

People that play dark tide either quit playing the game having gotten what they want out of it, or live long enough to become a zealot

[dreamy spade]

incoming frag

[umbral scaffold]

https://tenor.com/view/scandalous-bgt-britains-got-talent-shocked-outrageous-gif-19920417

[orchid nacelle]

Lucius Mk II)

[wanton dawn]

Frags, VoC, then either plasma or melee

[warm olive]

VOC?

[wanton dawn]

Voice of command

[warm olive]

ah yeah the push ok

I meant allies tho

[tall torrent]

Change “born leader” to “for the emperor”
Optionally change “longshot” to “agile engagement”

[warm olive]

but yeah plasma goes through allies right? so I guess I could take a plasma build everytime I see an ogryn ally

[wanton dawn]

High cleave weapon: plasma, agri brauto, bolter

[gray finch]

i love when there is a 6 crushers patrol spawn and 1 of 6 focus you and other 5 bodyblock your way out

[orchid nacelle]

thx men)))

[wanton dawn]

I prefer when allies bait a bomber or flamer behind you while you do that

[umbral scaffold]

deadshot needed, without it it's really underwhelming

[warm olive]

well it will have to wait until I finish my current build and I'll have to invest in a plasma weapon then I guess xd

[tall torrent]

No

[umbral scaffold]

yeah i tried it, it sucks arses without it

[wanton dawn]

Looks like my ciag build. With voc instead of exe

[tall torrent]

Did u build helbore2 correctly

You shouldn’t need crits for most 1 tap breakpoints

[umbral scaffold]

chainshots and something

[tall torrent]

I’m gonna assume that u didn’t build it right then

[umbral scaffold]

problem are maulers

longoshot does virtually nothing on mkII, mkI idk

[tall torrent]

Yea longshot isn’t most impactful on mk2

Still wouldn’t recommend deadshot on helbore

Ads in/out drops all onslaught stacks

[wanton dawn]

You ads out with deadshot ?

Not with his build

[umbral scaffold]

eeek depends on your aim, it's a good perk overall so...good fat shots on mk2

[umbral scaffold]

it's trash on the kentraels imo

[tall torrent]

Yea if ur aim is good you don’t need deadshot because you don’t need crits for most breakpoints lol

[umbral scaffold]

but if have good aim u have many weakspot crits

[tall torrent]

Draining stamina on a gun that wants to stay ads pretty much forever just so you can 1 shot something harder than you already could

Not great value

[terse idol]

Yeahh

[umbral scaffold]

you go in and out ads, no matter the gun

[terse idol]

Also the crit chance is

Minor

[tall torrent]

In & out of ads drops ALL onslaught stacks

[terse idol]

Compared to the value you get from

Well speaking of the ilas

Headhunter

Or surgical

[tall torrent]

Infantry Lasgun has no surgical

[terse idol]

Woops

Jeadhunter

[umbral scaffold]

onslaught is meh...at best

[terse idol]

[tall torrent]

It’s still generally the highest DPS boost option for Helbore

[gray finch]

since you spam click it

so you dont need it

but you got 20% on headshot hit from headhunter

[gleaming lynx]

The ogryn is the most zealous zealot. No one appreciates the Emperor's gifts like the Ogryn (did someone say "rations"?)

[woven oak]

Did Hadron brick this?

[tall torrent]

Yes

[woven oak]

Sad.

[dreamy spade]

this is why you run executioner

[tropic stratus]

one day i'm going to get power cycler 4

[umbral scaffold]

Time to farm for Melk coins

New craft system coming soon

a new crafting system

yaaay

Well an update to it

But yeah I suspect coins to be used

[wanton dawn]

Hmmmmm

[umbral garnet]

It seems they changed Onslaught's name to Weight of Fire.

[wanton dawn]

HMMMMMMM

[umbral garnet]

Interesting.

[wanton dawn]

Bought it

[wanton dawn]

playing with 3 zealot is really, really exhausting

I think ill just dodge next time

[rose ingot]

For people playing heresy and damnation regularly, what do you find works best for you? What very much doesn’t?

[gleaming lynx]

what level are you?

[rose ingot]

26, nearly 27

[hollow ibex]

Spamming frags always works

[rose ingot]

I haven’t even tried damnation yet

[hollow ibex]

The solution to everything is spamming frags

[sinful jacinth]

What do you mean by work best? As in loadout?

[rose ingot]

Gear, team dynamics, fireteam makeup, etc

[hollow ibex]

No need to worry about any of that

Just spam frags

[sinful jacinth]

Team makeup doesn't matter if everyone is competent. As for gear. Go for Columnus MK5 or a plasma.

[tame lodge]

What doesn't work is the sounds glitching every now and then, when bursters, dogs and trappers are present

[thin shard]

What's a good chainsword to use?

[sinful jacinth]

Both are fine

Just get a grey one each from brunts and see what pattern you like more

Or whatever rng gods blesses you with.

[tame lodge]

I believe the Mk4 is the popular one

[rose ingot]

I prefer the other one

Faster light attacks

[final stag]

Awful hebys however

[grand perch]

i think both work perfectly fine

its not like the chain axes where one is god awful garbage and the other one ok

[kind otter]

Is it? Coulda sworn it was 8 for the reved heavy damage and easy horde clearing lights

[hollow ibex]

There’s no mk8 chainsword

[grand perch]

thats what they want you to believe

[hollow ibex]

Mk13 is the wild flailing one

[grand perch]

chain swords cant cut steel beams

[hollow ibex]

Mk4 is the one with an actually coherent moveseyt

[gleaming lynx]

which one is the garbage one? mk4?

or mk4 is the one with the vanguard lights

[grand perch]

i forget which mark, i only ever tell them apart by looks. the one that locks on in light attacks is absolute garbage

[kind otter]

Bruh there's one strike down in the 4 attack light chain of XIII, it's fine

[hollow ibex]

Yeah that’s why I’m saying you flail wildly. There’s no real synergy between the lights and heavies for hordes

[tame lodge]

When you dual wield the mk4

[hollow ibex]

But yes it’s fine

[grand perch]

both in one hand = mk16

[kind otter]

Light spam on hordes and you won't even notice the strikedown, revved heavies for ragers, muties, and anything tougher. Seems like good synergy to me

[grand perch]

or mk256 possibly

[hollow ibex]

Not what I was talking about

But whatever

Use what you want

[broken palm]

Anybody in here got a good executioners stance build?

[blazing cargo]

Is every lasgun underwhelming atm?

[midnight totem]

maybe the 4

but lasguns are in a good place

recon lasguns on the other hand...

[final stag]

I got a build for sure, if it's good is all up on your ski fnndnd

[last parcel]

our place is rummaging through crates for ammo 💪

[midnight totem]

XD

It's manageable with survivalist and shock trooper

As nerfed the latter is

[wanton dawn]

On a 900k damage game in no ammo maelstrom, my frag did about 15-20% of it. It's pretty good

[vague smelt]

Hello, from Ogryn to Zealot to Veteran now to learn this class

[wanton dawn]

Shoot at fool

Shout at fool

[vague smelt]

At fool?

[wanton dawn]

As a veteran you must complain about your teammates about as much as your enemies

[tame lodge]

That's bad

[final stag]

Shoot gun

[vague smelt]

I already do as ogryn don't worry.

[final stag]

If you can shoot good you can play veteran

:)

[vague smelt]

I like shooting guns

Does gunlugger counts as shooting good?

[final stag]

Depends on the gun but yes

[wanton dawn]

Gunlugger stole our ult

[final stag]

Anyways veteran is a very jack of all trades archetype, I believe it's the most versatile one and you can make a lot of builds effective on Vet.

[vague smelt]

I'm a sucker for the heavy stubbers

Well before starting builds I'll ramp up my first veteran to lv 30

save large amounts of plasteel

[final stag]

Have fun >:)

[vague smelt]

and then check the pinned comments

That's my current plan

[hollow ibex]

Why I picked cutthroat

[final stag]

They chose cutthroat because they love cadia

I chose cutthroat because I found the voice attractive.

[vague smelt]

Well

Imma try this class

then I'll start making thousands of questions relating blessings, curios, builds, trees, guides, and what's effective and not

cya

[final stag]

Alrighty

[tall torrent]

I have a pretty comprehensive guide here

[trim hemlock]

Your primer has already been recommended in #ogryn-class , sah

[vague smelt]

Is the one with +50 pages

Hmmm

downloaded

[tall torrent]

Ooh nice thx

[tall torrent]

Yez

[tall torrent]

There’s no full build recommendation yet (that’ll be next version of this document WIP) but it contains breakdown for all talents, weapon builds & which talents interact best with which weapons

First 3 pages break down terminology used in the document, and explains some important game mechanics

[vague smelt]

Just an ogrynomicon but for Veteran

[tall torrent]

Nah I’m not quite as in-depth as ogrynomicon

It’s more utility stuff overall

[vague smelt]

Well information is information

[umbral scaffold]

'metal diamantine collected'

https://tenor.com/view/boring-unimpressed-meh-really-seriously-gif-16279809

[vague smelt]

What

People just been ignoring it in front of my eyes

If it's in front of me I'll grab it

[umbral scaffold]

thaht board is re-tarded, how the fucking is supposed to be a skill

[vague smelt]

I suppose it's just a stat board

[umbral scaffold]

imagine kharn having an ammo-count instead of a kill count in his helmet...ffs

[vague smelt]

I need ammo to kill things

I had one psyker

and one skullcrusher

only 2 of the squad used ammo

[umbral scaffold]

https://youtu.be/lknNsZgzG1g?si=hO4VnvQWyui2p2et&t=283 shh and listen to captain

[trim hemlock]

@tall torrent By the way, shouldn't Vraks 7 HHAG have Damage mentioned in its "modifier priority"?

[tall torrent]

I fucked up

My bad

[trim hemlock]

It's not like somebody will suddenly look for dumped Damage on it

also

Mg12 Lasgun has uhhh

Melee weapon modifiers mentioned

I'D LOVE First target and Penetration on it

In addition to damage and stopping power

[tall torrent]

Fuck me

Ok back to fixing

[trim hemlock]

I'll report anything else I spot

[tall torrent]

Thx

[gleaming lynx]

sad

[trim hemlock]

Also, big shoutout for recognizing this attack combo on Mk4 Chsword

[dawn garnet]

i hate TB so god damn much

[trim hemlock]

It's veeery good

[tall torrent]

Thank @bitter turtle

Oh nvm that’s mk4, I did that

Mk13g he helped

[light galleon]

Thank you for taking the time to make this! Really helpful for a n00b like me.

[last parcel]

@tall torrent Is it intentional that some weapons only have 4 stats listed among the high/low priority? Oh and you swapped dmg for stopping power on the mkVI recon

[tall torrent]

Yes
Although that one is by mistake

Made it at 3am

Was not thinking straight

[last parcel]

relatable

except that's me at all times

[tall torrent]

Lemme fix

man I kinda feel bad for all these mistakes

[tall torrent]

[hollow ibex]

Considering the scope of the guide naaah

Now vets will be forced to read

If ogryns can read so can vets

[umbral scaffold]

gimme an alternative to plasma, since i'm not much into autoguns and hellbore is stupid

[final stag]

Revolvers (both)

Kantreal is alright.

[somber axle]

Revolvers are probably the best alternative to Plasma. Shotguns can be very fun to play with too, specifically the Agripina model with the special fire slug shot

Kantrael Shotgun is ok too

Lawbringer Shotgun is only funny for horde deleting memes with man cleaver blessing

[umbral scaffold]

revolver big no (aim assist is stupid as well)....kentrael xii?

[final stag]

I don't use aim assist with it nfndnd just eyeball that bitch and it works miraculously

Uhhhhh not that one lemme read the veteran Bible real quick

[umbral scaffold]

if u ads u get aim assist btw

[final stag]

I turned off aim assist

It's a setting option

[last parcel]

you wrote 57 pages and made minor mistakes. there are those of us who can't even write a single sentence without spreading misinformation

[final stag]

MG Ia

That's the kantreal that is the really good one.

[tall torrent]

Next document expansion probably gonna have +10 pages minimum

I’ll try to include different playstyles

[tame lodge]

The default aim assist is ass

[final stag]

It's so bad

Chaff ruin your aim during hectic moments causing you a match

Turned it off and never looked back.

[tame lodge]

That's the spirit

[final stag]

Plus the hitscan in this game is quite generous

[midnight totem]

... I need a drink

[last parcel]

consider sock sweat

[midnight totem]

considering the two games I just went through, I'm tired as fuck

[final stag]

Cowardice

[umbral scaffold]

so fucking ogryn make a barrel explode and manage to kill the whole team....ogryn OP....yeah.....OP RE-tarded

[final stag]

Cest la vie

Happens to the best of us

[umbral scaffold]

should be put in the class description: 'Only for LOLs don't use above Heresy'

[final stag]

Ogryns are strong like stupidly hard to kill

[tame lodge]

I'll take that instead of quitters

Those are the worst

[final stag]

I love ogryns.

Tied with zealot for best clutch class in the game

[umbral scaffold]

nahhh u don't need that, it's like the wrong hard to kill, vet is the right hard to kill: u either have zero damage or you are dead....as the Emperor wanted

[umbral scaffold]

4 vets with magnacores....best team evar

[tame lodge]

Oh it's you

[final stag]

Ogryns fight for the guard. I'll take an ogryn over a zealot or psyker anyday.

[umbral scaffold]

that's statistics 83% of shit matches i had had at least 1 ogryn in, 2 ogryns is 120% probability of failure.....u can't argue statistics

[umbral scaffold]

they are still vile mutants

[dusty nacelle]

Veterans when they perform a checkup on a dog or something :)

[final stag]

Eh, I don't care who anyone plays. As long as I have fun doesn't matter if I win or lose. Die for the god emperor.

[lyric dock]

A reminder to keep your distance from barrels when playing with Ogryns

[winter grove]

Ok after playing with revolver on zealot a bit I've noticed something

Is revolver hitbox larger or something?

[tall torrent]

Larger sized bullet

[winter grove]

Legit?

[tall torrent]

U don’t have to be perfectly on point to hit ur shot

[winter grove]

Huh

[tall torrent]

Same goes for plasma and Boltgun

Except

Boltgun recoil is crazy

[winter grove]

I mean boltgun is excusable

[tall torrent]

And plasma crosshair aim is a bit harder at range

[winter grove]

Recoil, swap speed, reload speed

[tall torrent]

So revolver is just really nice to aim with

[winter grove]

Revolver feels too easy to use

Ngl

[lyric dock]

It's always so satisfying to quickly whip it out. Headshot a special and then go back to using your Melee

[winter grove]

That's why I'll keep it on zealot

[final stag]

Yeah that's why the revolvers hitbox is generous

[winter grove]

I use CIAG too, but on gunker

[final stag]

You can dispatch High priority quick

[winter grove]

On vet I don't use the op trio out of spite and principle

[lyric dock]

I tend to bias more towards the MK2 Hellbore, but I do bring out the Boltor and Revolver on my Vet

[final stag]

I use zarona revolver on stealth WS because it synergizes very well

But I use all the weapons on different builds

Agri is still my favorite on exe stance build

[tall torrent]

It’s not that serious

[final stag]

I just don't like the plasma gun
It feels weird to play with like it has a delay to a shot

[lyric dock]

You have to charge it just a touch to fire

[winter grove]

It's not

[lyric dock]

After a game or 2. You get a feel for the timing

[final stag]

I'll probably stay away from it lolol

It's not my cup of tea

[lyric dock]

Fair nuff

I used to be a Plasma main

But I only bring it out time to time

[final stag]

I am loyal to the cowboy aesthetic

One Shot. One Kill

[lyric dock]

I'm but a humble MK2 Hellbore user

Why waste time switching to a melee weapon when I can use my gun as my melee

[final stag]

Based

I feel the same with VoC
It's powerful and I'll use it if it's not in the team comp but I'm a Infil enjoyer all the way

And I also love exe stance dependant on the build

[lyric dock]

Most builds I run VoC

[final stag]

I simply know when hopping on pubs that vet mains will have VoC so I opt for my favorite special

[lyric dock]

I noticed a very slight uptick on shouty vets not being shouty

Only for most of them using the Revive shout

[final stag]

It's incredibly rare to find a vet player in pubs without VoC.

Funny thing is most VoC don't use it

[tall torrent]

They nerfed helbore bayonet really hard by patching out BM

[lyric dock]

Never really noticed the nerf

But then again I never did the BM+ Bayo interaction

I didn't even know it was a interaction

[tall torrent]

It only hits 3 mass now

With really bad cleave distribution

U can’t horde clear with it anymore

[lyric dock]

I tend to shout a lot because it is a very disposable 30 second cooldown which after a few special picks will be back online shortly

[lyric dock]

I see, but still enough to deal with small groups that harasses you while you deal with HVTs

[tall torrent]

The reason is that the other 2 abilities have worse pathing

[final stag]

I just save my talent points and bump rush through and chose the best of the worst.

I want to get to the good talents quick.

Survivalist will be chosen by all vets. Same with VoC. So I can speck how I want.

[lyric dock]

To be fair Survivalist is quite powerful compare to the other 2 options

[final stag]

Oh yeah extremely
But vets are a very popular archetype so I know 8/10 those vets are gonna have survivalist.

I do ignore smoke grenades on infil vet though. It's either krak or frags. Usually krak to save a talent point as well.

[lyric dock]

If possible it is Frags easily for me

[final stag]

Yeah but I like rending on all attacks from middle tree along with my WS keystone

[lyric dock]

Krak only if I'm doing a build where I have 0 reliable anti-crusher

[final stag]

That's wild to rely on krak for anti crusher

I just have it as a oh shit or boss dumper

[lyric dock]

I generally have a Anti-crusher in my build

Either my Range weapons or Melee weapon to deal with them

[tame lodge]

1- that's me realizing that it's you who's talking, not me telling you're the problem, although that can be true
2- that's biased statistics, not valid

[final stag]

I just have krak to have.

My infil vet can take on every enemy besides monsters. So I'll just krak em fnndnrn.

I do get frags for my VoC and Cowboy build and smokes for my Support exe sniper

[lyric dock]

I can consider trading VOC for Stealth for my Revolver vet build

[final stag]

Oooh that's a cool looking build

[tame lodge]

I don't think biased statistic is valid because I had 10 matches today, 9 of those, the vets sucked, the last match had 2 vets one of them was running infiltrate+recon+krak

[lyric dock]

Maybe have to change my Aura and grenade to squeeze more points

[final stag]

Vets usually kind of suck

On pubs

They're the ones that got lucky to survive not the ones with grit

[tame lodge]

Not to the point of walking towards pinged gunners

And then complaining about the team taking care of horde

[lyric dock]

Never a successful mission if you don't end it at a breath's away of going down

[tame lodge]

And then quitting

[final stag]

Sames goes for zealots with a ranged weapon complaining a vet didn't kill the gunners

Sorry buddy but everyone here has an option to kill gunners buddy 😉

[tame lodge]

The only bad zealots I've seen are the ones running off and dying

Which is a story for another time

[final stag]

Every archetype has a place in the squad

[tall torrent]

6 wound zealot is the bane of my existence

[final stag]

I'll do you one better

6 wound ogryn

[lyric dock]

WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT TO THE BIG MAN

[final stag]

Isn't their an argument for having 8+ wounds (not counting martydom) with that one talent that decreases damage per wound you go down?

[lyric dock]

You get 2 more fucks up compare to Lil uns

[final stag]

Cjndnd big man I get you don't want to die! But you're more of a burden on the ground!

[lyric dock]

I have 576 HP on my ogryn

It takes a lot to bring me down

||Bullshit trappers not withstanding||

[final stag]

Fnend I love the memey high hp ogryns

It's so silly.

[tall torrent]

There’s no point playing high wound without martyrdom imo

[final stag]

Well yeah but if you have 8+ wounds you are probably going martyrdom

[lyric dock]

The only time I can understand having a shit ton of wounds is a Marty Zealot

[tall torrent]

You can only go up to 7 wounds in damnation

With zealot

[final stag]

It's just that talent that gives you 50% tdr when going to your next wound is also pretty good on Marty zealots. Make em more beefy

Oh yeah fjdndn

[tall torrent]

It’s not TDR

[final stag]

+3 curios. +2 talent +2 base.

[tall torrent]

It’s health dmg reduction

Only health

[lyric dock]

I can get 3 wounds on Heresy and damnation if it is your first time on the difficulty and extra bit of leeway

[tall torrent]

The only time u should ever get +3 wounds for curios is martyrdom zealot

[lyric dock]

I mean 3 wounds as having 3 health bar segments

[rigid pilot]

No matter how tanky you still can't do objectives or revive while taking health damage

Gryns privileged

[lyric dock]

Even if I go down 1 because of a BS trapper. I have 384 HP once if I get revived as my Ogryn

[final stag]

Ogryns are chunky

[lyric dock]

They're big sacks of meat

But it's a big sack of meat on your side

[final stag]

Asartes without the dex

[tame lodge]

Martyr doesn't have enough toughness/stamina

Which sucks

Other than that, martyrdom is goated

[tall torrent]

Depends on how u build

[tame lodge]

Not enough value from right side

Where the stamina nodes are

[tall torrent]

Why not

[tame lodge]

Middle has healing/DMG reduction

[tall torrent]

Which you don’t really need?

You’re worried about toughness and TDR

[final stag]

And the left has tdr for squad

[tall torrent]

So get toughness & TDR

[final stag]

Which is like godly

15% was it?

[tall torrent]

The heal 25% dmg taken over 5s node is basically -25% health dmg

Martyrdom puts you at 2~3 wounds, any hit that would dmg to next wound is cut by 40%

[tall torrent]

That one is good

But the best “aura” u can get is shield of contempt

[tame lodge]

It seems like I was not clear enough

[tall torrent]

60% dmg reduction for 4s on taking hit, 10s cooldown
Individual 10s cooldown for each of the 4 party members

[final stag]

If you're worried about stamina just get Stam curios

[tall torrent]

Getting one +3 stam is fine

Worst case scenario put +stam on ur melee

[final stag]

Put a +5% on refining and boom that's a decent curio

+5% toughness*

[tall torrent]

As for not enough toughness

Toughness for melee is dmg reduction

Your goal is to keep toughness close to 100%

[final stag]

Zealot also has like amazing ways to get toughness back

[tame lodge]

Toughness part is more about those pesky stalkers

[final stag]

Chastise x2, heavy attacks, kills, tdr out the ass.

[tall torrent]

Trust in second wind

Gain 15% toughness on valid dodge

That combined with blood redemption

[final stag]

If you're decent to good at the game you should not be going down consistently

[dusky flare]

4 points for second wind ain't it

[final stag]

With zealot

[tall torrent]

What would u get instead

[tame lodge]

Some stuff got lost in translation, I'm not sure if that gives 50% extra or you gain half of your toughness

[dusky flare]

It should only be picked up with the crit talents

[tall torrent]

That’s 7.5% toughness per melee kill instead of 5%

[tame lodge]

Believe me, I'm not

Ah so it's extra, thx

[final stag]

Yeah zealot is a really easy archetype.

[tame lodge]

I do have my objections that I'll save for later

[dusky flare]

4 points could've got you 7.5% toughness on heavy kills and twbs

[tall torrent]

I’m not playing heavy sword

[dusky flare]

Works with a lot of other stuff

[tall torrent]

Heavy sword yea that’s a better way to go for sure

[tall torrent]

Rashad

[dusky flare]

Not so much

[tall torrent]

Exactly

[tame lodge]

With thrust

[final stag]

Chop chop >:)

[tall torrent]

Vicious offering wants sweeping heavy atks

[dusky flare]

Yeah which isn't rare so generally speaking vicious offering and twbs would be better

[low yacht]

Veteran is pretty easy though

[tall torrent]

I’ve been primarily playing martyrdom Rashad so that what I went with

If I’m running HS6 I’ll do vicious + TWBS

[final stag]

Zealot is pound for pound better.

[dusky flare]

Even for Rashad shred + scourge and enduring faith should still be 100% uptime on 50% tdr

Can still hit bruiser bps

[final stag]

And I'm a dirty vet main

[dusky flare]

And crit DPS against elites isn't bad either

[tall torrent]

The issue is that if I just 1 hit everything then scourge doesn’t get stack

For smth like evicerator sure

[dusky flare]

Shred alone should be enough given the attack speed you get

Either way, the point is the right branch is sorta bad without crit synergies. Second wind is excellent if you've already invested into enduring, but it's not worth 4 points on its own.

[tall torrent]

Alr thx

[dusky flare]

If you're running brauto or something twbs and anoint in blood wouldn't be terrible. Deaths dance is on the way.

[stuck kite]

Hey last night, I swapped out my VIII Devils Claw out for a Rashad Combat Axe (for Carapace and horde clearing), now I can take back my Krak Grenades instead of relying on the AoE Frags.

I do miss parrying, but it was useless without a Carapace gun so this'll round out my build idea better. Thanks!

Also didn't test it fully, but IV Devil > VII purely for having over 2x the heavy attack damage

[winter grove]

Should've kept the frags

[stuck kite]

I still can, also if I keep the frags I got an extra point to put elsewhere

[final stag]

Sometimes a points a point

[stuck kite]

Definitely, I only had Kraks to help with damage numbers on bosses

[final stag]

I like having an extra talent to mess around with

Same
I have kraks specifically for bosses now because Rashad and Revolver deal with everything else really well

[stuck kite]

But I got that juicy 4-20% damage source boost on targeting so nae bother for kraks when the rest of the team can pull their weight

[tall torrent]

not exactly, DC4's H1 is overhead, whereas DC7's H2 is overhead, these do the same dmg