veteran-class

[dusky flare]

and what compelled him to queue for auric t5histg?

[late hatch]

cooking your brain was probably his intention

[dusky flare]

That would assume he knows about these mods. Doesn't strike me as so 😂

[late hatch]

what was his true level?

A lot of people play semi casual and just build things without looking up guides. as long as he wasnt an anchor, it doesnt really matter so much does it?

[dusky flare]

That's 55 offense and 53 total rating, how much less is there to do?

[final latch]

making ur own builds is more fun tbh

[dusky flare]

I agree but i don't think that's what's going on cus that's just a random weapon not a build

Looks like an emperors gift

[late hatch]

I alternate between playing damn and aurics. I see a lot of players with high mechanical skill but very little cooperation mindset, and I see people who dont really care and just want to have some fun in a game, and some people who play coop games to actually cooperate with people.
Some people just want to test things, maybe it was an emps gift they were trying, maybe they were testing out blessings, maybe they let their mate or lil bro play a few rounds on their account.

[final latch]

i still havent tried auric

[late hatch]

A lot of people pref testing and figuring out stuff themselves rather than looking up guides or just running off a spreadsheet

[final latch]

i should try it

[dusky flare]

And i have no problems with using shit weapons but you're doing everyone a disservice including yourself if you can't handle what you queued for.

[dusky flare]

To this i say jump into the psykhanium for 2 minutes and you'll learn more than this person ever did in this particular real match. If you're really willing to test and learn by hand then that's what you'll do.

[late hatch]

Auric is good fun if you are in the mood for a bit more intense fights, but you also get some people who think everyone should be playing meta and know the levels inside out and backwards. Other people just like going deep and if they lose a game they dont get upset and just laugh and go next.

I dont know what the filter got upset about there

[dusky flare]

There is a very stark difference between non-meta and a 0/5 roll.

[late hatch]

meh, psykanium testing isnt for everyone, and there is no rule you have to play certain weapons to queue auric, or that you have to maintain coherency, or even play cooperatively in a coop game

Ive seen people flat refuse to pick up a scripture despite having an empty slot. what can you do?

[dusky flare]

Sure it's not for everyone but it is for those who want to test things which you literally talked about.

[late hatch]

testing vs dummies is not the same as live gameplay

[dusky flare]

Yes obviously both have their place

But the psykh tends to come first

Takes 10 seconds to realise maybe carapace damage isn't great on a colum brauto

[late hatch]

I played damnation just fine with pretty average weapons for a long time, simply coz the crafting system is so crap i cbf chasing good rolls and collecting blessings

[dusky flare]

I'll say it again, there's a stark difference between an average weapon and a 0/5. Average weapons can be fun, terrible weapons aren't fun.

[late hatch]

idk, some people like playing with a handicap, or they simply dont care enough to look up guides and stuff and just want to get amongst it

[dusky flare]

Dunno why you keep bringing up guides. Gearing in this game isn't exactly rocket science.

[late hatch]

A guy I used to play with was super into looking up guides, and had good mechanics, but he was a toxic POS that always blamed out for everything. Ive had lots of fun playing with people who are running trash gear but try their best to play as a team and losing is just "gg wanna try another"

[white minnow]

there's some less obvious stuff

and terms like "power" and "rending" are completely unexplained if you do not consult patch notes or external resources

[dusky flare]

I mean the core assumption underlying our discussion is that said player is actually willing to test things out by hand. it's pretty difficult to not notice what power does. Rending is more complex but still boils down to armour penetration which most gamers know like the back of their hand.

We're not even talking about optimisation, just basic gearing.

[late hatch]

except doesnt rending not behave the same for diff armour types? tide games are pretty esoteric and some people legit just cbf and want to just play a game

its overly complicated with extremely limited info supplied in game

[white minnow]

works the same besides being disabled for unarmoured/infested armour types (in the sense that the calculation is the same for flak/unyielding/carapace/maniac)

[late hatch]

like headshot and crit damage being only on the bonus

[dusky flare]

I sense some miscommunication. Is this hypothetical player we're discussing actually trying to test things out and learn or just trying to play the game without regard for it's mechanics?

Seems like you started talking about the former then switched to the latter some way through.

[late hatch]

maybe a, maybe b, maybe its their lil bro jumping on and playing something wild, maybe they legit just dont care enough to test or look up how things work

[dusky flare]

So you don't even know what you're talking about anymore, how tf am i supposed to know 😂

[late hatch]

afaik no rule in the game against playing annoying stuff, like we have loner knife zealots zooming around triggering events and enemies without looking if other people are in position. i care about the spirit of teamwork far more than what they are running myself

[late hatch]

you wanted to complain about someone elses loadout, which really shouldnt impact your gameplay at all.

[dusky flare]

That has nothing to do with you spouting gibberish lmao

[late hatch]

i was just conversing and it seems you feel the need to prove something about how its so easy to test, and im telling you a lot of people legit CBF doing much testing and just want to relax and play a game they paid for

and the crafting system is so bad, i dont blame them for not engaging and trying to build meta

[dusky flare]

And i never said otherwise lmao no one needs to test if they don't want to. You brought up people wanting to test without guides first, then you just did a complete 180 while i was responding to you.

[late hatch]

i didnt do a 180, i offered several possible explanations, you seem to have fixated on 1 and decided that is my only argument

If you dont like people running random gear then just premade with other sweaties that want to run meta

[frank monolith]

Whats the meta for vet

[late hatch]

like 1 of my mates rarely plays, he only plays ogryn, and he hasnt changed his loadout pretty much ever, coz the crafting system isnt friendly and he doesnt want to learn all the blessing and the meta, he just jumps on for a few intense games, he can generally carry his weight in auric but in a pug without more experiences players taking care of certain elites and disablers i doubt he would win a lot.

[late hatch]

plasma, rev, or c5, powersword with cycler4, or the new shovel, cant remember the mark off the top of my head

[frank monolith]

Danks

[late hatch]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046912126746374274/1213452671013486592/image.png?ex=65fec15d&is=65ec4c5d&hm=27318dd2943828855c148cae2ce816cf7350b9f0a80d6652152db292ab36a195&

this is the shovel ive been using a bit, the activation does pretty bonkers damage

been meaning to try cara on it, but depends what gun you run what melee as you want to cover bases

[dusky flare]

I didn't decide it was your only one, i decided that's the one i would address at that current point in time. I'm not chatgpt, nor do i have 3 brains and 5 computers 100 digits 😂

[low yacht]

Vraks Headhunter is amazing

[late hatch]

i run shouty nade vet most of the time so I can push crushers around a bit and deal with them

[low yacht]

Headhunter goes so well on Vraks Headhunter

The +18% Critical Chance on that autogun is amazing because you use it like a semi-auto sniper rifle or dmr.

[thorn lark]

sooo hmmm what should i do?

[void rampart]

oh that gun is beautiful

[winter grove]

Why not make it +25 Dmg for maniacs?

[proud marsh]

Truest statement ever made about this game

most people aren't on discord or reddit and will run whatever random shit they like

if it bothers you just run groups

[last parcel]

or kill them

[oblique cedar]

any random weapon can carry you through auric maelstrom if you know what youre doing, idk why the metachasing is sweating over this at all

[late hatch]

Meta weapons are a step above, but the process to get meta weapons with god rolls is horrendous. spending millions on brunts to get a few dozen good stat distributions, then 49/50 of them are bricks (when going for perfect) and you still might have to settle for t3 blessing or 15-20% damage type perks, instead of being able to sink those resources into making a good weapon into a great weapon over time.

[jaunty sphinx]

which psword I think I finally wanna invest in one

[bitter turtle]

mk6 is the stronger one

mk3 isnt bad though

[jaunty sphinx]

thanks!

[agile forge]

You need power cycling, and either Bromentum or Sunder on it

whichever one you pick

[bitter turtle]

i put a guide in the pins for melee weapons

[jaunty sphinx]

...huh.

yeah I saw

[agile forge]

don't worry, hadron will brick it for you

[jaunty sphinx]

im so mad its not 51% mobility but itll be a brick anyways

unbrickable? also damn thought I had more plasteel, into the mines I go

[agile forge]

It's ok

Power cycler III isn't bad tbh

I'm still waiting for my IV

STILL

[bitter turtle]

its definitely usable no matter what at this point

[jaunty sphinx]

yea

[low yacht]

People say things are meta but then forget viable options opposed to the meta.

Just because something is meta doesn't make it the right weapon for everyone.

[wanton dawn]

Meta is rarely ever defined by enjoyment, although "low skill floor" might be a factor in popularity

It is mostly effort-to-reward

[low yacht]

To be honest it isn't competitive so a skill floor doesn't matter more then balance of weapon. To make it viable but also not so easy.

Though that's more for gameplay and less then balancing it around a competitive system.

[wanton dawn]

Skill floor definitely matters when some weapon requires you to destroy your hand to be competitive

[low yacht]

I mean maybe that weapon should be easier

Or changed so you don't just hurt your hand

Make it too clunky it's not gonna be fun make it too overpowered while fun it gets boring fast.

[trim hemlock]

Is Vraks 7 being discussed right now?

[low yacht]

Which Vraks?

The Headhunter

[trim hemlock]

7, single fire

[low yacht]

Headhunter is amazing but I wouldn't say it's overpowered

[trim hemlock]

This is the first weapon that comes to my mind which might negatively impact your health re: hand

[jaunty sphinx]

ok nice, This Will Serve

[low yacht]

It's fine

[wanton dawn]

I don't play HH, I am committed to bolter

[bitter turtle]

change flak

[low yacht]

What do you mean I use the Vraks and my hands are fine.

[bitter turtle]

flak doesnt really do anything

[jaunty sphinx]

ty

[trim hemlock]

Make an accessibility option to enable auto fire on button hold. Back 4 Blood did this, IDK why Darktide couldn’t

[bitter turtle]

i suggest maniac for mutant oneshot to face

[low yacht]

Because you don't need it

[jaunty sphinx]

yeah I agree, theres a mod for that tho

I use it

cause I got early onset arthritis

[low yacht]

I have no issues Because it's semi-auto

I have muscular dystrophy and my hands get exhausted easy and it hasn't done that

Explains a lot I am using controller

[trim hemlock]

Well, duh, there’s a reason for why accessibility was a concern addressed by modders ever since probably Vermintide 2

[jaunty sphinx]

sorry then

[low yacht]

I play darktide on controller and my aim is just fine and my hands don't hurt.

[trim hemlock]

The problem is that it’s not a base game functionality

[low yacht]

There is benefits to a controller on your hands

[jaunty sphinx]

you do fine, doesnt mean others dont have issues

[low yacht]

A keyboard kills my hands I won't lie to you using a space bar and wasd is too much input.

[jaunty sphinx]

I personally have issues on controller and keyboard

its all in my right hand

[low yacht]

Ah your dominant hand

Fun

[jaunty sphinx]

yeah

[low yacht]

I modified my controller with a rubber grip and my hand has never felt better

[jaunty sphinx]

makes putting together and painting my models take longer than it used to but its still fun

[low yacht]

Rubber grips are pretty nice to have

I mean that probably explains my aim I modified my controller specifically so it could aim better and be easier to grip without dropping

[jaunty sphinx]

nice

[low yacht]

What is that on the side +69?

[jaunty sphinx]

true level mod

basically just shows how much people have played

[low yacht]

I'm a controller player but I impress people so much they think I am pc.

It comes in handy when you are a controller veteran

[jaunty sphinx]

yeah ill never knock controller players, I grew up on halo and I kicked ass back in the day

now im ass

good at action games with controller tho

[low yacht]

I'm not good at shooters

I mean because it's less about shooting and whoever has a faster ads

My aim is fine but my reaction time to some kid that has faster hands then me it's hard.

At least with bosses they're normally predictable

[late hatch]

I have bad knuckles esp in my right hand, without autofire mod there are a bunch of weapons I would simply never use. TBH there are so many QOL mods that together make the game so much more enjoyable, I honestly cannot understand why FS are so resistant to improving their game.

[low yacht]

Eviscerator I only use it because it's easy

Columnus has been my favorite weapon because of it's amazing auto.

And Vraks isn't much of a problem but using knife it's like cutting grass with scissors it's weak for a supposed combat knife.

Not even that it's not worth it because it makes your hands tired.

[agile forge]

XV I presume, II is tricky

[low yacht]

Yes I use the first one

[torn needle]

[jaunty sphinx]

psword with weapon spec is The Sex

my god

[vivid silo]

I agree, except for the Chain Axe(s) instead of the Power Sword. Having to repeatedly activate it just feels so annoying to me

[wanton dawn]

chain axe and powersword are definitely not the same weapon though

[vivid silo]

Somewhere along the way I realized that, which is why I included the "instead of" part of what I wrote

[jaunty sphinx]

yeah I use psword for horde clear, Iwish I liked the chain axe

well, and for the really good block attack

[wanton dawn]

I also use psword for horde clear. Except horde is anything in melee range

[wise knot]

Im going for a melee vet build atm

[late hatch]

ps mk6 takes off crushers heads pretty fast, really is the meta melee for vet atm, as long as you have pc4 which really does make a big diff

[jaunty sphinx]

Yeah I noticed

[agile forge]

PC3 is good enough

[jaunty sphinx]

It's really damn good

[agile forge]

but you want 4

[jaunty sphinx]

I'm making due with pc3 in the meantime

[late hatch]

i think pc 3-4 is one of the biggest jumps of any blessing

[jaunty sphinx]

I use columnus and psword with weapon specialist and just kind of delete everything

Oh absolutely

[vivid silo]

It's definitely meta, having to activate it every couple of swings just makes me want to tear my head off

[jaunty sphinx]

I play crusher Zealot as my other main so I don't mind in the slightest

[vivid silo]

Yeah I guess it just becomes 2nd nature to you at that point!

[jaunty sphinx]

Mhm

[vivid silo]

But, can it go VRRRR?

[wanton dawn]

Powersword is basically a dance move

charge-1-2-3-charge-1-2-3

Add some dodge and push attack

[jaunty sphinx]

I have my chainsword on my plasma build for vrrrr because I like the higher mobility it has compared to the psword

[final latch]

i still need to try plasma gun

i tried it once and never understood how it works

[wanton dawn]

I have a hybrid plasma/ps build which I intended as a melee build but ended up being an hybrid

[jaunty sphinx]

You literally just shoot it and never charge

[vivid silo]

It takes a bit of getting used to, although not nearly as much as it used to since it's overtuned at the moment

[jaunty sphinx]

Yeah it's broken

[final latch]

charged shoots are bad ?

[vivid silo]

You can definitely charge, if you want deeper cover penetration, but that's more or less it

[jaunty sphinx]

Yeah

[wanton dawn]

yes

[final latch]

makes sense why i was struggling with it then

[vivid silo]

You can shoot through walls next to spawn doors with the charged shots for example, killing everything before it even comes out

[wanton dawn]

You can also not do that and be fine

[vivid silo]

Works brilliantly with Executioners Stance if you can manage to stay alive without the absurd VoC

[final latch]

it penetrates through walls ?

[jaunty sphinx]

I mean with Mark keystone they can one shot a crusher when charged but. Yeah

Yup

[final latch]

like any wall ?

[vivid silo]

Not ALL walls

[jaunty sphinx]

Thin walls

[final latch]

so its some jank you gotta figure out

[vivid silo]

Yup

[jaunty sphinx]

And cover

[vivid silo]

It's hard to explain for me, I've used it for so long that it just comes naturally to me

[wanton dawn]

uncharged plasma already has thin cover penetration

and cleaves 6 maulers

[final latch]

how do u cool down the gun also

[wanton dawn]

special key

[vivid silo]

Special action

[jaunty sphinx]

Special key

[final latch]

do u take damage from it

[jaunty sphinx]

Minimal

[vivid silo]

Toughness damage yes

[final latch]

i remember reading that

[wanton dawn]

Some thoughness damage

[vivid silo]

Only takes health damage without toughness

[wanton dawn]

Usually you don't even notice it

[jaunty sphinx]

Yeah

[vivid silo]

You don't even really need the special action key if you aren't heavily minmaxing

just spam fire and it will cool down itself

but to take full advantage of something like Blaze Away, you should manually vent it further

[final latch]

i had big issues with heat but thats probably because i tried to use charged shots way too often

[jaunty sphinx]

Yeah blaze away on the plasma is amazing

[vivid silo]

Yup, charged shots can kill you (literally)

uncharged cannot

[final latch]

what kind of melee do u run on plasma

my veteran melee is jank

i completely neglected it

[vivid silo]

I'm a Chain Axe kind of guy, but I run it more as a secondary weapon so I wouldn't recommend it

[jaunty sphinx]

I got a lot better with plasma after playing a ton of psyker which taught me how to manage the not exploding meter

[vivid silo]

Ps Mk VI, Shovels or Combat Axes work well in my experience

But I'm not a PS guy myself

[wanton dawn]

You can slap PS on literally any build

[final latch]

ps ?

[jaunty sphinx]

Devil's Claw

[vivid silo]

Power Sword

Ah right, Devils Claws too, totally!

Combat knives also work pretty well

[jaunty sphinx]

Gonna switch to devil's claw for my plasma build personally

[vivid silo]

Depends on how you are using your Plasma mostly

[final latch]

i might try a knife

never used those

[vivid silo]

They seem pretty popular right now

[gusty bison]

Very easy to use wrongly

[jaunty sphinx]

^

[vivid silo]

But if you just use it as a mobility and get-away tool, then you can't go wrong

[gusty bison]

But great when used correctly

[gusty bison]

Nah this is how to use it wrongly lol

[torn needle]

I'm feasting with this one

[gusty bison]

Running away from problems doesnt solve them :P

[vivid silo]

Repositioning, so you can draw the Plasma again to kill them, is what I had in mind

[gusty bison]

Knife has great single target damage on vet

[jaunty sphinx]

I wish I could use knife but my hand problems make the rapid clicking not feasible 😭

[gusty bison]

Plasma doesnt need you to reposition

Its plasma

[vivid silo]

I agree it's not taking full advantage of the knife

Dude, that's just plain false

Or does 100% of your enemies come in straight lines, all the time?

[gusty bison]

You literally can draw it midhorde, blast through 10 guys to hit the target ur aiming and solved

[agile forge]

Probably wouldn't bother with carapace on a CIAG

[vivid silo]

Sure, if it's just "one" target

[gusty bison]

Oh no. Lemme just left click a few more times aaaaaand they are dead

[torn needle]

True actually, unyield would be better

[slow spade]

4 plasma vet team 😎

[gusty bison]

Its plasma

Its the gun that needs the least positioning

[slow spade]

Need buff

[vivid silo]

So you just face-tank 8 Ragers hitting you while you shoot them 1 by 1?

[late hatch]

doesnt the charge make a diff with crusher packs and monsters?

[vivid silo]

You never need to reposition because a boss is coming in a bad position for you?

[gusty bison]

If u cant shoot out of melee with a plasma gun u need to work on ur melee fundamentals

[slow spade]

I so love the "impossible situation that never happens" question

[vivid silo]

You guys never get multiple Ragers in melee?

I guess you don't play pubs

[slow spade]

You do?

[gusty bison]

I do.

I just hit the dodge key

[slow spade]

Literally Vet hard counters ragers

[wanton dawn]

I do too. I just hit them with the sword

[slow spade]

Skill issue =\= gun issue

[gusty bison]

You can kite ragers adinfinitum with a helbore.

With a plasma its EVEN EASIER

[late hatch]

If you see more than 2 ragers you should be using nades and or shout to give space really. nothing is gonna help you if you cant make space

[gusty bison]

Also knife two shots ragers

[vivid silo]

Not every build has Shout

[gusty bison]

Why the fuck are you running away

[wanton dawn]

Unless rager is blessed.

Then I get sweaty

[vivid silo]

I'm not running, I'm taking a longer dodge to line up the Ragers easier for example

Yeah Nurgle blessing also says HI

[gusty bison]

Or you can just... murder the ragers now

[vivid silo]

Whatever

[gusty bison]

Its trivially easy to kite ragers

With any gun

[vivid silo]

Yep, this whole game is trivial

[gusty bison]

Except the kantrael lasgun

[vivid silo]

you can beat it with grey weapons and no talents

Why even bother with anything?

[gusty bison]

Running away with knife when faced with rager is bad play

[vivid silo]

I never said it was using it optimally

[gusty bison]

Just stab the fucker

[vivid silo]

I said, you aren't going to actively harm yourself

[gusty bison]

It does put extra pressure on ur teammates

[vivid silo]

in regards to your purpose

[gusty bison]

And thats how u use knife wrongly

Bad knife players heap pressure onto their teammates

[vivid silo]

You seem to be really intent on twisting what I write

I get tired of it

[gusty bison]

If ur gonna do that, just dont use knife

[vivid silo]

I'll just dip out

sorry

If you can't be arsed behaving

[gusty bison]

Lel kay

You were the one that suggested running away from ragers while having a plasma gun

[vivid silo]

No

You are doing it again, twisting what I wrote

[wanton dawn]

It's kind of a strawman

[gusty bison]

points at this

[vivid silo]

Please don't put words in my mouth

[gusty bison]

I mean what else are you doing with ur knife out in that case if you arent stabbing them

[vivid silo]

If you can't even be bothered to respond to what I'm writing, what's the point even?

[gusty bison]

The premise previously was this

[wanton dawn]

Considering that ragers have anti-dodge tracking dodging away/back might be the best choice indeed if you are not shooting

[vivid silo]

Yup, last I checked, repositioning (in the timeframe of a single dodge or two) isn't "running away"

Just dodge backwards

They won't track that

[gusty bison]

You can do this without the knife out though

[vivid silo]

So if you are done putting words in my mouth Grawr, that would be lovely

Yup

Never said you couldn't

[gusty bison]

So what the fuck is the knife doing there

[vivid silo]

Ask the person using it

I'm using a Chain Axe

[wanton dawn]

But oh well, I don't play knife so I don't have any horse in this race

[serene bough]

To stabby stab things

[vivid silo]

I don't either

[serene bough]

Whatre we talking about

[gusty bison]

Just dodge with the gun out at that point.

Its a plasma. You can even shoot mid dodge

[vivid silo]

I just have a horse with people that put words in my mouth and twist what I wrote to win an argument thats pretty pointless

[gusty bison]

At that point the knife provides minimal benefit and is just hindering you

[vivid silo]

Is that some kind of apology?

Nothing I wrote refutes any of that

[wanton dawn]

That's just bad for your mood though

[vivid silo]

Nor does it seem terribly relevant

[gusty bison]

Then why are u suggesting that as a proper use of knife

[vivid silo]

Nah, I just feel a bit of pity for people doing it

its fine

[elder fiber]

I like horses

[vivid silo]

That's also twisting what I wrote

You are literally doing it gain

[serene bough]

Horses are majestic

[vivid silo]

againØ

[wanton dawn]

https://tenor.com/view/horse-smile-hungry-feed-me-gif-10862144

[vivid silo]

Thank you for showing you still haven't grasped the concept of what I'm writing

[gusty bison]

Pretty explicit here

Context here was literally talking about what knife was good for

[wanton dawn]

OH MY GOD NOBODY CARES

[vivid silo]

"But if you just use it as a mobility and get-away tool, then you can't go wrong"

This is the original context

[late hatch]

https://tenor.com/view/seinfeld-giddy-up-gif-8174058

[vivid silo]

I never claimed that was using the knive to it's full potential

[gusty bison]

"Get away tool" isnt running away?

[serene bough]

Remember the days when people used to post frog pics all the time

[vivid silo]

So now you are ignoring the "mobility" part as well?

Nitpicking what you are responding to ?

Good for you, lad

[gusty bison]

Using knife as a mobility tool is bad unless u know what ur doing lol

Its advice that leads to the knife loner zealots everyone hates

[vivid silo]

Ok, let me spell it out for you so you (might) understand it: I never said it was using the knive optimally. But if one is using their primary weapon to kill 90% of threats, and their melee weapon to make space to use their primary weapon some more, then the knife isn't the worst toll

[shadow aurora]

https://tenor.com/view/breaking-bad-funny-wtf-wth-jesse-gif-17336046

[gusty bison]

Its bad because it teaches bad habits + puts extra pressure on the team + doesnt actually do anything to help plasma except be a crutch for bad play.

[late hatch]

https://tenor.com/view/jim-carrey-liar-liar-funny-gibberish-blah-gif-12443056

[gusty bison]

Thats my point

[vivid silo]

Which seems pretty irrelevant

Ok

Thanks

[serene bough]

I like knife

Stabby stabby

[gusty bison]

The original point was literally its easy to use wrongly

[shadow aurora]

It can be used as a crutch but in my days of play time ive seen like 3 stereotypical knife users

[wanton dawn]

https://tenor.com/view/kid-knife-running-with-knives-gif-13862209

[vivid silo]

You are, yet again, nitpicking what to respond to

I'm done

[gusty bison]

Ok so context.

I said that knife is a good weapon that is easy to use wrongly

Cos people tend to use it as a runaway/speedrun/getoutofjail tool

Like knife loner zealots

[shadow aurora]

Thats part of the weapon except speedrunning

Sometimes you need space and knife is good at that

[serene bough]

Ye

[gusty bison]

Its only part of.

But some people tend to use it primarily as such a tool and throw aggro onto their trammates

We all know what im talking about

[jaunty sphinx]

I'm going to take a nap if you're all still arguing about knives when I wake up I'm going to leave for Zealot chat and never come back

[shadow aurora]

I mean ive seen people like that a few times but i dont feel like theyre that common. If anything most of the time they take all agro after going ahead of team dying and rage quitting

[vivid silo]

Or one could use it to dodge (further) to easier lineup multiple Ragers for a single shot, killing them all.

[gusty bison]

Then the aggro gets dumped on the team. Speed runners trigger extra pods. Bad speed runners die to them then they go after the team. Good speed runners just evade them and dump the aggro of the pods on the team

[shadow aurora]

True

[gusty bison]

You can just shoot twice in the time it takes to swap to knife, dodge, swap to plasma.

Devil claw also gives this benefit as well and is a better defensive melee

[vivid silo]

I hope you aren't still twisting my words

[shadow aurora]

Ammo conservation also its cool asf to do

[gusty bison]

True but if its truly a wall of ragers then ur going ammo positive anyway

Soooo

[vivid silo]

Not if you are shooting them 1 at a time, needing 1-2 shots for each

[gusty bison]

Its a wall of ragers.

Ur hitting multiple each shot if thet are truly as dense as you are claiming them to be

[shadow aurora]

You still save a shot in the magazine if you use less as little of a bonus that is

[gusty bison]

Tru. Although i will say at some point ammo conserv stops mattering.

E.g Kan Lasgun vs Agri shotty

Kan is more ammo eff but both guns need 0 ammo pickups

[shadow aurora]

Yeah survivalist needs to be nerfed tbh

[gusty bison]

Mmhm

Even plasma needs 0 ammo pickups if ur running a hybrid build

Rather than a ranged focused build

[split sapphire]

I recently got my hands on an amazing Mk.3 power sword here, my only question is, that one perk that can be changed, should i have a different one or is this good?

I believe it was unyielding that i could change if there was a better option, otherwise i can 1 shot bulwarks and sometimes reapers and mutants on T5 difficulty with this right now and my veterans tank melee build

[junior needle]

Carapace/maniacs seems to be preferred but the breakpoints are probably different between the 6 and 3

[midnight totem]

Oh this is a mk3

[junior needle]

Blessings are great, so if you wanted to make something for now you'd change the perks.

BUT

[midnight totem]

I was about to ask how your push stabs are on crushers

[junior needle]

I suspect brutal is going to be adjusted in the future, and having an open blessings slot for the second blessing is futureproofing

[midnight totem]

I hope not

Brutal is fine. It's power cycler that is the problem

[junior needle]

Brutal is not really fine, it invalidates the existence of other clear blessings

[midnight totem]

Sunder is useful

[junior needle]

If your weapon can reach bruiser breakpoints, it becomes near mandatory

True, sunder is also useful

But it's not just the psword that brutal does this on

[midnight totem]

Rampage and slaughter could become more useful

That's true. Combat axe comes to mind

But that's more a problem of combat axe and needing to horde clear

[junior needle]

There’s no competing with the multiple first target damage due to damage falloff

I don’t see a way to make them comparable without mechanically altering them to do the same thing effectively

[junior needle]

Cycler is another mandatory blessing and a design issue on fatsharks part. But I don’t expect it to change unless they rework charging as a whole.

[midnight totem]

If power cycles wasn't mandatory, say all power swords get an innate two charged swings, something like sunder/rampage or sunder/slaughter would be very powerful

[junior needle]

Or sunder brudal

I imagine they wanted to get rid of cycler, but tons of people put a ton of resources into getting it

And if they did that people would be PISSED because they did it for nothing

[midnight totem]

Yeah

[junior needle]

Tens of thousands of plasteel alone down the drain

And if they made it not as good

People would also be pissed

[midnight totem]

I mean. Keep cycler. Add an innate +1. Power cycler 3 and 4 would still be very powerful

[junior needle]

It would still be indisputably BIS with that

[midnight totem]

Probably, but at least the ps won't be near useless without it

[junior needle]

True

I support that

But yeah I don't expect cycler to get an adjustment anytime soon outside of an entire rework of charging

[midnight totem]

Sometimes, I think of adding a new customization to all the weapons

A 5th module, not a perk or blessing

[junior needle]

A 5th node to stuff utility stuff into would be nice

[midnight totem]

Like. A full auto module for infantry lasguns. Reduce damage by 10 percent to compensate, increase stability and reduce recoil too

The only problem comes from brainstorming similar stuff for other weapons

Chain weapons get a gore splatter guard, automatic suppression of nearby enemies when you kill an guy next to them with the Rev up

(Because the gore gets onto them or something I dunno)

[junior needle]

Suppression would be useless against melee enemies, most are immune

Would have to be stagger

[midnight totem]

It'd be cool though xD

[junior needle]

Not sure about negative damage though

[tame lodge]

Terrifying barrage but melee

[midnight totem]

Sure it wouldn't work on the melee enemies but let's say you're in arms reach of a gunner

[junior needle]

That just makes your ammo efficiency worse

And you can just autofire things without it

[midnight totem]

Ammo efficiency definitely has to be addressed. I don't like vets being the only source of ammo regen

Ogryns ought to be able to carry "supply packs" of ammo they can shit out every couple of minutes or so like vets do grenades

[junior needle]

Terrifying barrage needs a rework too

Less likely to get one though

[midnight totem]

Zealots should be able to spec into letting the team find more ammo per pickup

You know, by the grace of the emperor

[junior needle]

Not sure about requiring talent points for this

Otherwise you're going to get the same issue of "this is the most optimal path for everyone and whoever doesn't take it is the selfish randy"

[midnight totem]

Psykers ought to get an ammo efficiency aura

Because psychic shenanigans I ain't gotta explain shit

[tame lodge]

It should be part of surv

[midnight totem]

Also I just realised manstopper is a t2 only blessing fuck

I missed picking up a shotgun with it yesterday

[split sapphire]

So if power swords were to be buffed and say now by default they have 3 energized hits instead of 1, would Super charge and brutal momentum go together well?

This is just a guess, not saying it would happen, but more so a possibility if it did happen

[final latch]

you ever just think so hard you spend less bullets

[midnight totem]

Hollywood does it all the time

[fluid solstice]

That’s just normal fire control

[trim hemlock]

Supercharged still wouldn’t do a whole lot to the power sword itself - its armour damage modifiers would have to be changed

[fluid solstice]

The psyker is just secretly a really good shot

[trim hemlock]

Why have a sticky debuff on a weapon that kills anything it touches in 1-2 swings lol

[junior needle]

Due the particulars of adm's on a charged power sword, nope. Also for the reason kjer just mentioned.

For brutal you want to kill chaffe in one swing, which it doesn't without trouble really.

Super charge doesn't help this one bit

[trim hemlock]

It’s a cool blessing… if there was enough big bad targets to use it on and it would help both you and your team tremendously

But as is, Vet just does a one-two push-stab into L4 on PS6 and kills a Crusher without remorse

[junior needle]

Eh, it's basically just thunderous but more restrictive

It barely nudges posword damage on carapace so even if you spawned tons of crushers it just doesn't do much

also your swings stop on carapace anyway without sunder, and then you also need cycler

So you have a little extra carapace damage depending on the model vs killing 4 bruisers in a swing or the benefits of sunder

[trim hemlock]

I wonder if the right way to balance it would be to make it grant Rending on powered swings… not that it would change much, but it would be a “somewhat” competitive option, for basically an action-less damage increase against flak/cara/uy/maniac by utilizing the post-rending damage increase

[junior needle]

It wouldn't really be competitive then either due to rending being reduced to 1/4 bonus damage over 100%, you'd need a massive amount to make a sizable difference and the utility offered by other blessings is very hard to pass up

At that point it might as well just be bonus damage on charged swings

Of which slaught and rampage already fulfill while giving power

[trim hemlock]

Its niche would probably be unconditional boss damage, and while BM does that to an extent, it’s only a Weakspot power increase (which in case of charges swings can contribute to a lot of damage, I admit, but you don’t always hit headshot, and even if you do, raw damage would probably outweigh it)

[trim hemlock]

And yeah, it would definitely have to be a lot of rending

But if we look at Force swords, they also do get Uncanny Strike, despite having relatively good ADMs across the board

[junior needle]

They don't really open up crushers on their regular attacks

And psword does, since you essentially don't ever use it uncharged if you can help it

[trim hemlock]

In an ideal Tide-world, we should have rending be tied to weapon attack types instead, and not break the game by introducing blessings with rending

[trim hemlock]

I hate this so much

It makes Pswords automatically want Power Cycler

It’s garbage design

[junior needle]

I think the charging should just get reworked to not require you to charge constantly, it's grating gameplay and I just don't use them anymore because of that

[tall torrent]

No because then you get to run the insanely broken combo of BM + Sunder

[split sapphire]

Sunder?

[trim hemlock]

Sunder.

[tall torrent]

Minimum cleave 4 target regardless of hitmass

[trim hemlock]

A good blessing, that

[split sapphire]

Hmm, never tried it i don't think, kinda found it meh imo

No offence

[tall torrent]

Normally you can’t cleave more than 2 scab ragers

Or 2 maulers

Sunder allows u to hit 4

[split sapphire]

True

Oh i see

[tall torrent]

It makes your elite-wave clear a lot better

[split sapphire]

Well i guess i have not seen it yet, but i'll see if i can't find it some point

[tall torrent]

https://youtu.be/mqLFHXK5aaA?si=BwrdhPF4FOJ7EjIJ

[dim lily]

Is the left side of the tree viable ? (especially last part, with the deadshot perk). Kinda digging the Hellbore lasgun, but sacrificing mobility seems like the wrong move

[tall torrent]

Sunder also gives u 400% cleave on top of the “minimum 4 targets hit by cleave”

[tall torrent]

Bottom middle & left tree are very universal for almost any weapon you want to use

[split sapphire]

I moved on from executioners stance to voice of command, having that 50+ toughness boost along with the perks for toughness dmg. Reduction allow for big bursts of tankiness

[tall torrent]

But don’t pick marksman’s focus if you’re not willing to commit to sharpshooting

[dim lily]

Right, you can mix and match the "sides" of the tree

[dim lily]

Right, so veteran rather as a support. Will need to test that out, maybe with a shotgun or wave clear weapon

[umbral scaffold]

So when we getting a Helbore skin

[dim lily]

Thanks for the insight, will try that out

[tall torrent]

I should also add the caveat that the meta “support” veteran build involves you one shotting everything

[dim lily]

sounds good, I usually land my headshots 😛

[junior needle]

You can't cleave 1 mauler head by default either iirc

Because carapace

[tall torrent]

Yea mauler head has funky hitmass stuff going on cuz carapace

[half comet]

guys im building a knife, what blessings should i go for

[tall torrent]

Uncanny strike + riposte/percognition/mercy killer

[half comet]

noted

[junior needle]

mercy killer mandates serrated blade and is generally less popular for that reason

Because talent tax

[half comet]

appreciated

ironically enough i had a knife with uncanny and riposte already lol

but i was debating if using that or the one with lacerate

[split sapphire]

I'll be sure to give it a whirl should i get my hands on it

[agile forge]

The marksman style is fun because it lets you do ridiculous DPS with fast weapons

But E stance is like the opposite of VoC

[junior needle]

Lacerate is a trap blessing and quite bad at the moment, due to knives doing roughly 1/3 the damage on bodyshot hits compared to weakspot hits.

One of the few that actually gimps you for trying to use it

[tame lodge]

Obesefish moment

[tiny summit]

Left side is viable. I mostly play Exe. Wouldn't use Deadshot with Helbore as you'll be ADS most of the time shooting with it and surgical blessing is really all you need for crit chance. I use MF but it is overkill on HB for most targets but you'll get 1 tap rager headshots with it. All about positioning since left side gives up VoC being a get of jail free card.

[midnight totem]

does onslaught work per shot or per pellet for shotguns?

[tall torrent]

Shot

[midnight totem]

shame

Shotguns would be pretty damn good if it was per pellet

[tame lodge]

Probably broken

[junior needle]

Exe is "ok", needs some mechanical changes/improvements and less talent tax. But it doesn't compare to VOC, which is on another level of general usefulness.

[wanton dawn]

doubt it

[raw steppe]

i think VoC is just too broken rn lol

they need to move the cdr on special kill to be behind exe

[junior needle]

Wouldn't exactly make it less accessible for VOC, you path right there from survivalist anyway

[dim lily]

thanks a lot !

[agile forge]

Make it an E stance modifier maybe, or put it under it

[raw steppe]

no like

behind exe

as in

🔒

just like how kinetic flayer is locked behind BB

lmao

[junior needle]

Yeah that's gonna be a highly unpopular change from both voc and infiltrate users

Don't think it'll happen

[raw steppe]

ye IMO i think it wont either

but if I was the designer

I think the core things that define vet

is grenades and ult resets

what I would do is remove the generic nodes for those

[junior needle]

grenades

[raw steppe]

and put specialized nodes behind each grenade and each ult

so the grenade every 60s, grenade on elite kill, etc

and for ulti, maybe cdr on special kill, cdr on melee kill, etc

[junior needle]

The free nades are nice but I wouldn't say they "define" vet in terms of aesthetics

Or archetypical things

[raw steppe]

i think having more talent tax

in order to customize grenades

would be pretty cool

even if everyone will get mad about it

tbh I'm of the opinion that the game is too easy

and i welcome changes that would make it harder lol

[junior needle]

I'm gonna say that's not the best approach to game design, even if multiple developers do this out of spite and lack of profound consequences

[raw steppe]

true, but i also think caring too much about what the players think is also a terrible approach

ultimately you have to toe the line

make good decisions for the game, even if some ppl might be upset

[junior needle]

You don't want to make it harder by making it less enjoyable/taking away things people like

[raw steppe]

cuz if you always be afraid to nerf stuff, you end up with a shitty game

but if you dont care about player opinion too much, you ruin your overall sentiment

i've played games where the devs cared too much about player feedback

and they've ended up becoming dogshit because they become too scared to make the game better

i've also played games where the devs cared too little about player feedback, and players get really really upset and they lose goodwill

[idle swallow]

the only correct dev response

[junior needle]

Well, the thing is, better can be very subjective.

[raw steppe]

absolutely lol

[junior needle]

So better from your perspective could very well be worse for a sizable portion of the playerbase

[junior needle]

This I feel is the worst one

[raw steppe]

Actually not necessarily

[junior needle]

Especially games where you can't mod in changes to fix it

[raw steppe]

One example is path of exile

[junior needle]

In my subjective opinion it is the worst one

[raw steppe]

This happened and there was a "nerf league"

and they took a massive 10-20% player hit

[junior needle]

Yes, I played poe when that happened.

[raw steppe]

but afterwards, the game got better because of it

[junior needle]

Not quite

The problem with poe is that there's a few builds that are allowed to be meta at the time

[raw steppe]

your problem is that you play trade league 😛

[tiny summit]

Dunno what Exe is gonna need with current weapon balancing. VoC how it's designed is almost always gonna look better

[raw steppe]

trade has those issues because you have infinite resources and infinite cap

[junior needle]

And these stay meta for indefinite periods because they're comparatively very strong and/or need comparatively little gear/investment to do their job

[raw steppe]

so you end up with only a few builds being able to abuse the top tier items

thus the "meta"

[junior needle]

Whereas you have other skills that feel like dogshit until they get a very significant investment

[tall torrent]

easy, buff killzone

[raw steppe]

however, in SSF/GSF play, there's a lot more variety

[raw steppe]

ah i see what u mean

[tall torrent]

if killzone wasn't such a clunky talent I'd consider exe more

[raw steppe]

yeah this is an issue

do you play LE

[tall torrent]

opening salvo also needs buff

[junior needle]

I bought it but haven't played it

[raw steppe]

i think the LE skill system resolves this very nicely

[idle swallow]

Just make the refresh time on marked kill for exe baked in by default, why tf isn't it

[raw steppe]

there's a lot of things I really like about LE

[tiny summit]

Exe removing range restrictions on talents would probably be neat but maybe broken lmao

[junior needle]

Also ggg decided to rework a skill (or rather a skill attached to an item) I liked called dancing dervish

[tiny summit]

But then again what is that? Killzone, Catch A Breath and Longshot?

[tall torrent]

exe needs to have the refresh function baked in
maybe have highlighted enemy killed (by anybody) refresh it
and the 2 nodes before exe need MASSIVE buffs

[junior needle]

And then it turned out very underwhelming and even worse than it was before, and they haven't done dick to fix that

So they just leave things in the dumpster for long periods and call it a day

[tiny summit]

25% of the start of the mag would be nice

[raw steppe]

tldr:
you can pick between trade and self-found. If you pick trade, you get buffs for buying/selling; if you pick self-found, you get buffs for target farming uniques/gear
with skills, you have a skill tree for each skill that you level up and put points in to adjust skills. You can make the behave differently, convert dmg, etcetc; and this replaces the support gem system.

the skill system is really nice because once you've leveled it up

you can pretty much freely swap it

as much as you want

so you're not stuck recoloring your 6L

or leveling support gems

and shit like that

[junior needle]

I'd strongly prefer self found but a lot of builds in poe are just nonviable for that

[tall torrent]

it needs better crit chance as well

[raw steppe]

ye that's why I've been hosting GSF with a group of 10-20 friends every league now

[tiny summit]

That too. It really should have kill refresh default, also I think it'd be better to be longer base duration and kills give X secs. Oh and allow swap of course. But that ain't gonna make it look better than VoC

[raw steppe]

we get the selffound experiences but can also play builds

that normally ssf cant access

since we have 10-20 ppl's worth of rng pool

it's really fun cuz

not having to worry about economy

MASSIVELY improves my weekend

cuz if i play trade I get like 3 hours of sleep on friday, sat, sun

but in GSF i can take 8 hours a day and not feel shitty about it

and we have an excel

to track what we're looking for

so if other ppl find it for example, you can play the build

[raw steppe]

ye this is something that's IMO frustrating

I hope they have something similar to last epoch in poe2

where your exp is tailored to how you want to play

[junior needle]

That would be nice, but this is grinding gear games

[raw steppe]

I don't mind grinding

I just want to be able to grind hahah

[junior needle]

I don't expect Chris Wolcen to let people out of the infinite hamster wheel

[raw steppe]

like if i want x unique

i don't mind grinding for it

[junior needle]

No grind is more grindy than something you can basically never get

[raw steppe]

but there needs to be a way to get there

[junior needle]

I agree with that sentiment

It should be a clear path that also isn't ballbustingly harder

Like, if you had to grind a juiced map to get an item

[raw steppe]

that's why i'm excited for FS crafting rework

cuz they'll probably make it trivial for perks/blessings

[junior needle]

But your build struggles to clear yellows without that item and it's a big juiced red

[tall torrent]

if there’s a crafting rework

[raw steppe]

but they'll add another grind

which is grinding stats from 80 to 100

or red items

idk

i dont mind grinding

i'm just done grinding the current system

already have all the stuff i want

[raw steppe]

well the way LE does it

they have "prophecies"

and it's like "kill 10 x enemy and it'll drop a unique boots"

[midnight totem]

Give exe its auto reload back

[raw steppe]

"kill 1 y boss and it'll drop 4 well rolled rare rings"

[midnight totem]

Boom

[raw steppe]

etc etc

[midnight totem]

Done

[raw steppe]

and you can manipulate those and reroll and etc

so let's say you're trying to improve your ring slot

or if you're trying to farm a pair of unique boots that you need for your build

you have a system that you can grind to move towards that goal

i quite like it

I was able to farm out the unique items i needed in a few hours

[raw steppe]

not gonna lie

this would actually make me play bolter again lmao

[serene bough]

Bolter needs some penetration built into it as well

[hoary horizon]

Not lore accirate

Bolter enter target then boom

It not go throught

[serene bough]

Maybe not but the boom isn't very good right now

[hoary horizon]

Bah. Kill monster good no?

[serene bough]

It'll kill things but you could also just bring a zarona revolver and kill a conga line of elites

I haven't used the bolter much recently so I'm not sure if I'm missing something but it feels underwhelming when compared to plasma and revolver

[tiny summit]

At least let exe swap proc ranged specialist

[serene bough]

I think exe needs some rework personally

I've mentioned this before, but a lot of guns used to need exe stance to be viable, now general player power and weapons buffs make exe stance almost irrelevant

[junior needle]

It definitely does need a rework, and reduced talent taxes

[serene bough]

Number tweaking and reducing talent tax is a valid option but the utility of the other two ults outweighs the damage gain from exe

Not to mention infil and VoC can gain their own meaningful damage buffs from other talents

[serene bough]

Probably a good start for exe stance is to return reloading the magazine upon activation, and maybe not disappearing when swapping weapons

[tall torrent]

That is like the least of its concerns

[tiny summit]

I agree. It's also just funny that it doesn't

[raw steppe]

not only that, iirc the numbers are also just less good than it used to be

i think it used to be 25s cd

and 50% damage boost

now it's 35s with 25/25 dmg/wkspt dmg boost

[gusty bison]

It used to be 75% DR

sooo yea

[tiny summit]

VoC was a mistake because it's just going to always work in this style of game

[raw steppe]

eh i dont mind them removing the 75% dr

[gusty bison]

That was the main draw of old volley fire anyway

[raw steppe]

well that node was just overpowered lmao

[gusty bison]

Yep

VoC kinda took its place

Frankly the damage was never really the big deal of old volley fire

Outside of like boss dumping

[raw steppe]

the damage was quite strong

because it was generic

[gusty bison]

Kinda?

I felt like on a lot of guns it was just wasted

Back then

[tiny summit]

Gib exe duration on weakspot hit against monstronsities

[raw steppe]

having it split out to 25/25 lowers the effectiveness of a lot of weapons

like brauto and shredder

[gusty bison]

cos you could 1 tap anyway without volley fire

[tiny summit]

Would be nice if you could keep ability modifiers like FtE as Exe is up

[gusty bison]

Might break the IAGs

But then again

VoC is still VoC

Its hard to compete with more survivability

[tall torrent]

I don’t see agripinaa1 or graia8 being broken that way

[tiny summit]

AoE stun, full toughness and over toughness still gonna look better

[gusty bison]

It basically would double the DPS of those weapons

But there is a case where at some point, raw DPS stops mattering

since you are just deleting everything you point at anyway

[tiny summit]

Especially when you can build your weapons w/o needing Exe to deal meaningful dmg

[gusty bison]

mhm

[tall torrent]

You can only 1 shot an enemy so hard

[tiny summit]

delete harder

[gusty bison]

I think thats the issue with Exec tbh

[tall torrent]

Also pls buff MG12

[gusty bison]

Vet kinda doesnt need a "more damage" ability

[tiny summit]

Can't hear you with my 50% overkill dmg

[gusty bison]

Buff Kantrael stability

[tall torrent]

As a Rashad enjoyer, 100% overkill Dmg is normal

[gusty bison]

and remove its silly inverse falloff

[tall torrent]

MG12 just straight up needs better dmg

[gusty bison]

just make it do full damage

[tall torrent]

And probably cleave

Better dmg across the board

[tiny summit]

Or a whole rebalance of the game

[gusty bison]

MG12 needs a lot of things tbh

It just kinda has a lot of rough spots atm

[tall torrent]

Just straight up buff its dmg so it can 1 headshot all the important targets without being forced into exe / MF

[gusty bison]

Iirc it can go up to flamers right?

and gunners

but falls short on ragers

[tall torrent]

Without exe / MF? lol

[gusty bison]

Oh wow

[tiny summit]

Buff things even more so that Exe and MF are dead weight even more than they are

[gusty bison]

thats rough

Missing the flamer BP?

Ooof

[tall torrent]

You need max dmg & SP roll + maniac + flak + precision strikes + rending strikes + longshot + 2 stack tag + 8 stack redirect fire + superiority complex and be 14m+ away

To be able to 1HS both gunners and both flamers

[gusty bison]

Dayum

Yea thats no bueno

[tall torrent]

Just straight up buff its dmg by like 30%

Also give it Helbore cleave

[gusty bison]

Its Flak ADM could also be buffed maybe?

[wanton dawn]

I missed the bolter discussion

[tall torrent]

I don’t think buffing flak ADM would even change its breakpoints

Unless u buff it so high it can 1 shot scab rager

[gusty bison]

it would buff the scab gunner BP

removing the need for Flak

[tall torrent]

But srsly just buff its dmg across the board by like 30%

And give it Helbore cleave

[gusty bison]

(Turn it into a HB2)

[wanton dawn]

Its fine imo, but then again, i experienced the jank for hundreds of lvl

[tall torrent]

This is on top of you having to pick up suppression immunity btw

[gusty bison]

Damn thats ass

[tall torrent]

There is no other gun that requires this much point investment

[gusty bison]

Nop

[umbral scaffold]

vraks headhunter?

[gusty bison]

No

Not even close

Remember this is to hit flamer BP

Vraks hits that innately

[tall torrent]

V7 has a lot of required stuff but not as much as MG12

[gusty bison]

Most of V7's required stuff is to hit rager 1 taps

[tall torrent]

V7 surgical with rending strikes + precision strikes can already 1HS flamers

[hardy ember]

New weapons on the way soon?

[tall torrent]

No clue lol

[wanton dawn]

SoonTM

[tiny summit]

All weapons deserve nerfs

[umbral scaffold]

https://tenor.com/view/hysterical-laughter-laughing-gif-25735842

[wanton dawn]

Recon nerf it is

[tall torrent]

Also MG12 can’t 1 bodyshot regular shooters since patch 13

[tiny summit]

Recon taking all of our sins

It's a hero

[tall torrent]

Even with exe stance and stacking every form of ranged dmg u can

[gusty bison]

I dont think it ever could

[tall torrent]

Before patch 13 it could

Cuz volley fire gave u a lot more dmg

[wanton dawn]

Yeah but 50% ranged dmg

[gusty bison]

Into scab stalkers?

Id imagine the ADM is killer

[tiny summit]

Slower firing shredder auto pistol that acts like a bolt pistol but you don't get a bolt pistol

[hardy ember]

Hotshot lasguns?

[gusty bison]

Tbh what niche does the hotshot fill here

Like do we need to make it a bodyshot gun or smth?

Cos it feels like we have way too many precision guns

[wanton dawn]

A recon like laser with increased dmg the longer you shoot ?

[tall torrent]

Braced lasgun with overheat instead of reloading

Also give it “gets hot” so it could do absurd crit chains the further u hold down m1

[gusty bison]

Uh, the hotshot lasgun doesnt have full auto

[tiny summit]

Beam weapon with plasma dmg and infinite cleave

[tame lodge]

Scab gunner cosplay

[gusty bison]

Ur thinking of the volley gun, which is very different

[tall torrent]

That’s ok give it full auto

Or do u mean hotshot long-las

[gusty bison]

No

Hotshot long las is different

The regular hotshot lasgun is like the Kantrael lasgun

semi auto

Just with high AP shots

[tall torrent]

Oh then I’m pretty sure people were asking for the backpack battery fed lasgun used by scions

[gusty bison]

Thats the battery fed lasgun used by scions

Its a semi auto gun

[tall torrent]

Huh ok

[gusty bison]

The hotshot volley gun is also used by scions

but its basically a laser HMG

[tall torrent]

Whatever just give us scab gunner’s gun

[gusty bison]

it uses grav tech to keep it balanced so you dont need a bipod

[gusty bison]

Also on this note.

The hotshots have garbage ammo xD

But I suspect that is GW and FFG screwing up numbers lol

The average hotshot lasgun with the giant ass backpack has 30 shots in the entire backpack

[tall torrent]

I personally want a long-las more than volley gun

Smth in between plasma and Helbore

With a clean sight

[gusty bison]

Kinda hard ngl

Cos the Helbore mk 3 is uh

Similar damage on headshots to plasma

Actually I think it outdamages plasma in some cases

[tall torrent]

Better finesse

Reaper 1HS for example

[gusty bison]

Helbore already has very very good finesse

[gusty bison]

This is doable with the Mk 3

[tall torrent]

Yea but long-las can be like

More cleave

[gusty bison]

In fact the way it would have to go is the opposite, and have better bodyshots

[tall torrent]

No charging mechanic

Just slow firerate

And preferably faster draw

[gusty bison]

Otherwise its gonna just be a helbore mk 3 and the two compete for the exact same role

[tall torrent]

Differing handling would make it different tbh

HB3 is unwieldy as hell

[gusty bison]

Ehhhh

It has slow draw speed sue

but its stability is top notch

Id hardly call it unwieldy

[tall torrent]

Could also give long-las much higher ADM

[gusty bison]

Helbore already has near optimal ADM though

Unless you give it a better carapace pen, which isnt canonically accurate

[tiny summit]

Yea but do we need another long range single tap kind of lasgun when we have 3 helbores?

[tall torrent]

I mean smth along the lines of 2 shot crusher without dumping all ur talent points for it

[gusty bison]

This is just plasma no?

[tall torrent]

Plasma doesn’t really 2 shot crushers

[gusty bison]

3 but fair

What Legate said tbh

We have too much precision rifles

The way I would maybe go for a longlas is to give it lower finesse

[tall torrent]

At least the vanilla game should have sight options

Hopefully soon

[gusty bison]

but a good base damage

Snipers dont go for headshots anyway

[tiny summit]

Everyone should learn the glory of ww2 iron sight shooting

[gusty bison]

Like say

700 base damage, 1.5x finesse

[tame lodge]

Space white death

[gusty bison]

But yea, unfortunately long range doesnt exist in DT.

So a long range gun kinda just... doesnt make sense

[tiny summit]

Horde game gonna horde

[gusty bison]

Indeed

[raw steppe]

man

it makes me so sad how much stronger the meta weapons are

compared to non-meta

[novel stone]

I wish default lasguns were just a bit better

[raw steppe]

wish the blessing system was better

[midnight totem]

I wish

[brittle falcon]

There should have only been the basic patterns of lasguns but you could switch fire modes like in lore.

[wild lantern]

its not shocking after seeing all the bs balance they did since patch 13

[junior needle]

But this isn't cod, changing fire modes doesn't fit the lore

Neither does weapon crafting

Which is also immeasurably complex

[umbral scaffold]

WHAT? but there are more mentally challeged ppl to block.....waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more

[tiny summit]

I have 1 person blocked. Can't block anymore

[cosmic sundial]

How do I do the penance where I have to hit 5 enemies with a frag grenade without it bouncing?

[tame lodge]

Long arm it

[tiny summit]

Git gud at knowing how long and how far away you need to throw it. Someone has a clip in the meat grinder showing it. Aim high to throw long so that it explodes before it lands. I did mine at the start of hab dreyko before first drop

[sinful jacinth]

I wonder wat max is lol.

[cosmic sundial]

Oh do they not always bounce? That’s easy then

[tall torrent]

Throw it at enemies 40m away

[white minnow]

grenades will explode either after some time not hitting a wall, or if it does hit a surface. it'll go off of another timer

[tiny summit]

They are on a set fuse when they leave your hand. So it's just about timing it to explode before it has a chance to hit the ground

[sinful jacinth]

In layman's terms: Throw far and high so it explodes above the heads of 5 enemies.

[frank monolith]

how do you guys get the orange color

[eternal sable]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1069333077354102884/1120852121571565729/1071194676171911258.gif

[winter grove]

Orange?

[tall torrent]

Chat a bit in this server and you’ll get it

[frank monolith]

my colouring might be wrong

[frank monolith]

alrite

[winter grove]

Oh the red colour

[slow spade]

RED IS BEST

[winter grove]

You're either red or blue in this game

Everything else in between is irrelevant

[junior needle]

Be in the server for a day

It should promote you after

[tall torrent]

@junior needle how do u think I should describe recon lasguns in my document rn

I wrote abt low ammo-kill efficiency, low dmg/shot, suppression & shock trooper, low finesse

What else

[rugged garnet]

I need plasma gun

Mmm

So good

[uncut ore]

hadron blessed me with this what should I change

[tall torrent]

Probably change both blessings

Although personally I’d harvest

Infernus

[junior needle]

If you're looking for a general description: Numerically undertuned on multiple fronts, having received very little positive changes since release. While tolerably salvageable by the talent tree depending on the variant and method, all are in need of a tune up to modern gun standards.

Mention the 2 is the lowest dps gun in the game currently and to never use it.

[umbral scaffold]

not enogh giving the number of ogryns out there

[tall torrent]

Is there any specific thing I can add that makes them sound somewhat appealing (ik they’re undertuned but I try to add at least something that’s not bad)

[junior needle]

They're comparably pleasant to fire, with very little deviation while firing ads. At least while not suppressed.

[umbral scaffold]

idk i've starded blocking every ogryn player around LOL, too many, class needs to be nerfed to usenessle

[tall torrent]

ok

[junior needle]

That's the only thing they have going for them

The effects of suppression on them are unconventional, as it doesn't move your sight but gives you the big hipfire spread instead of your normal near perfect accuracy

[winter grove]

I once had 3 ogryn players while I used lasgun

[tall torrent]

Anything to add

[uncut ore]

what are the best lasgun blessings?

need to replace mine

mg1a

[winter grove]

Headhunter + DA/Ghost

[uncut ore]

I only have 1 can replace for a III lvl headhunter which one should it be?

[winter grove]

You should just harvest infernus off it

Or sell it

[tall torrent]

Neither, both are bad

Infernus is not good

[pliant sentinel]

Headhunter, Deadly Accurate

[tall torrent]

Efficiency is a meme

[uncut ore]

you sure? this is the highest rating wepon i've ever rolled

[pliant sentinel]

if you hit your headshots, yes

[tall torrent]

Yes, Infernus is bad for lasguns (except Mk2 Laspistol, Mk6d recon lasgun)
And efficiency is REALLY BAD

[gray finch]

you looking for 80 on damage and stopping power

[uncut ore]

Ill play a few games with it before I scrap it for inferno

[pliant sentinel]

@uncut ore This is mine

[uncut ore]

this is my only other option rn

[gray finch]

jesus

[pliant sentinel]

mg 12 is kinda doodoo these days

[tall torrent]

Don’t use weakspot or crit dmg as perks

They’re some of the worst choices u can pick

[uncut ore]

or

[tall torrent]

This is not great but much better than the other two you’ve shown

[uncut ore]

it's my main but it's the only good weapon I have 😭

[gray finch]

change the weakspot to flak and dead accurate to ghost and you can 1 shot every gunner

[tall torrent]

Please don’t use +25% carapace on infantry lasguns

[uncut ore]

I was getting tired of it

[pliant sentinel]

It works

[tall torrent]

Are u aware of how little dmg they do against carapace armor

[gray finch]

yea on the crit only probably

[pliant sentinel]

I'm a crit build my guy

[winter grove]

You should make that weakspot dmg into flak dmg

[gray finch]

the bonus form 200 dmg is huge

[pliant sentinel]

I only aim for the head lmfao

whatever i miss with the lasgun, gets the powersword