veteran-class

[tall torrent]

Would call it niche

[junior needle]

no

Not being good vs maniacs*

[terse idol]

I mean recon is playable, you just gotta work hard to get a good recon and the work a recon is gonna do is gonna be less than another weapon you build for a godroll

[junior needle]

Depends on the variant as well

6d has scuffed modifiers to flak, unyielding, and maniac

I haven't checked the 2 recently, it's so shit using it never even comes up

[odd sparrow]

slug shotgun is decent, reload is a bit long and damage isnt amazing but it works nicely as a generalist weapon

also good stagger

[coral bloom]

This somehow turned into a "recon good vs bad" discussion.
I think recon is like a good weapon kit in any way except dps. If it gets buffed and dps get buffed to same level of clunkier weapons it will outshine them. Thats pretty much it.

[echo parcel]

If you argue that the mk2 recon is dogshit, I don't think anyone will disagree with you

[junior needle]

Anyway, I want the guns to be comparatively good. They don't have to be the best.

[wanton dawn]

I don't see the agri shotgun being better than bolter on vet

They fill the same niche

[junior needle]

As in they stand up to the competition well, not just "feels ok subjectively in a vacuum to me"

[terse idol]

Like with the expectation of this current crafting system is that you roll a bunch of times to min max a weapon then make.a weapon that stands out, is strong.
The issue again this is just the advocate for recon buffs

[junior needle]

On an objective basis

[terse idol]

That even on a god roll recon, you're not hitting similar numbers to other god roll weapons

You've achieved the baseline

[tall torrent]

I casually rolled this last night

[wanton dawn]

BEGONE WITCH !

CURSE UPON YE !!

[coral bloom]

I ran the recon in a normal auric damn earlier today and it was pretty much impossible to kill specials or elites at range before plasma deleted them. It is not fun to play recon with a halfdecent plasma vet in team.

[wanton dawn]

https://tenor.com/view/smiling-friends-witch-smiling-friends-funny-gif-24516468

[junior needle]

Godroll recons with full talent tree struggle to reach the baseline dps of IAG's

[terse idol]

OKAY TO BE FAIR

Yeah

Yeah...

[echo parcel]

If every weapon is a god roll, then we are just comparing baseline performance of each gun, and as it stands, certain guns are overperforming way too much

[terse idol]

Well I mean in my theory I should I prefaced removing the outliers

When you remove the outliers

Most god rolls will still be better than recon god roll

[wanton dawn]

Well, plasma is an elite killer after all

[terse idol]

Again the recon god roll is rolling to achieve baseline for other weapons

[junior needle]

Blame fatsharks intense hardon for single shot weapons

[terse idol]

Yeah, pgun is fucked

[echo parcel]

Its not fun to play with good plasma player in general

you dont get to play the game

[terse idol]

And this is like the whole of like, why I would I run a recon where I can just run a Infantry las

[coral bloom]

Gotta say though, recon is comfy. Move crosshair in vague heretic head direction, hold m1. No recoil control.
Compared to HH or god forbid columnus recoil xD

[terse idol]

And just 1 tap everything

[junior needle]

At least when I'm using revolver, other people get to contribute when I reload

[tall torrent]

A good plasma player just clicks everything

[terse idol]

If the recon can't deal with crushers

[wanton dawn]

When I run a dedicated anti-elite build I am expecting to get 50% elite/special kills

[terse idol]

Then

I'll take the infantry las

Which deals with everything else

[junior needle]

Well they can, need onslaught for it though

[terse idol]

And not crushers

[tall torrent]

Maulers:

[terse idol]

Oh yeah

I just don't like 7 shots on crushers headshots cause I'm lazy

[junior needle]

Which should be placed higher in the tree

[tall torrent]

Ngl after testing Onslaught’s actual impact besides killing crushers I think it’s very very mid

[junior needle]

Yeah most guns don't have super scuffed modifiers

Thankfully

[echo parcel]

I've stopped takingg onslaught on everything

too many points for only 1 real enemy type that benefits from it

[tall torrent]

And veteran has a lot of good weapons to kill crushers with

[echo parcel]

Hell, take krak even if you have to, that will do it

[tall torrent]

Power sword
Rashad
Chainaxe
Folded shovel
Knife even

Even a chainsword can 2 rev heavy HS crusher

[coral bloom]

Barely used krak at all. Noticied with vet teammates using it, it still seems to have a decent area of stagger knockdown. Unless thats been something else going off

[echo parcel]

you can sometimes use shout to knock crushers into each other so multiple die from 1 krak

[wanton dawn]

kraks is not that great on ogryns enemies. Not greater than frags at least

[terse idol]

Shredder is bettah

[tall torrent]

It has very small AoE

[terse idol]

smoke is better than krak 😌

[wanton dawn]

Kraks is better on boss though, especially BoN

[tall torrent]

Only 5m blast radius with 1.5m blast center

[coral bloom]

Does it have a larger stagger aoe? I meant it looks like poxwalkers and other trash go prone from it

[tall torrent]

Not really

[coral bloom]

Bummer

[tall torrent]

It has suppression vs groaners

Frags do too but larger radius

[wanton dawn]

Alright, time to test Power_DI

Well, guess i'll test it later i am going to eat soon

[coral bloom]

I always feel happy when vet teammate starts chainstagger bullying bosses with krak. Yes it couldve been done with a slapping ogryn. But krak is cool

[tall torrent]

U can chain stagger bosses with frag too

[coral bloom]

Fair xD

[junior needle]

Is that the one that's like scoreboard but better?

[wanton dawn]

Allegebly

[junior needle]

Ooo, I want to know how it goes

[wanton dawn]

OOF

[coral bloom]

Is this like, oof the previous was better? Or like oof, this new one wasnt at all what I was expecting?

[wanton dawn]

Well, let'

s just say it needs some pre-adjustement

Here's what a session in the psy looks like

definitely not "ready out of the shelf"

No wonder it isn't more popular

I will keep scoreboard for now, try a few games and see if I can generate a report that makes me happy

[void rampart]

Oh wait what one is this

[wanton dawn]

Power_DI

I will have some fun with it later

It is promising but definitely, DEFINITELY not accessible

[void rampart]

Is it like an after report thing? Like a menu in the Mourningstar or what

[wanton dawn]

It is like a scoreboard ye

[void rampart]

[junior needle]

F in the chat boys, creator of dragon ball died

[flint rampart]

F

[void rampart]

was actually devastated by that

I grew up with Dragon Ball, rewatched the entire franchise with my friends about 6 months ago or so

DB, DBZ, DB GT and all the movies

[wanton dawn]

F

[echo parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/vegeta-vegeta-rain-vegeta-sad-dbz-dragon-ball-z-gif-2167897810151461845

[tame lodge]

F rip

[sinful jacinth]

What weapon do people use for horde clear as a vets atm?

[echo parcel]

Shredder nades

If you want a melee option, there are a bunch

Psword, shovels, claws, axes

even knife can work once you get used to it

[atomic zephyr]

many good horde clear options

[wanton dawn]

For ranged not really

Best for vet would be agri brauto

[fleet garden]

psword rise up

[elder fiber]

pissword

[fleet garden]

just get pc2 and momentum and you are golden

[junior needle]

Shovels and knife aren't exactly good horde clear

They're acceptable performers but primarily taken for other benefits

[tall torrent]

Shovels are kinda interesting, they don’t clear that fast but the horizontal sweep heavy has very high cleave

Can cleave scab rager at baseline

Scab mauler too (not headshot)

[atomic zephyr]

hey, if i drain all my ammo and then get some back from survivalist, as long as i dont swap to it i dont lose make every shot coutn?

emergency question

[raw steppe]

yes but it's much easier to just not run survivalist

[atomic zephyr]

its not me

[raw steppe]

if you're going to go for the penance

[atomic zephyr]

someone else is

[raw steppe]

get rid of them

do it with bots

[tall torrent]

If u run out and have already gotten 90% accuracy, surv ammo gains don’t count

[raw steppe]

i did it duo with my friend

in a private game

all you have to do is kill the bots

[frank basin]

Barrel the bot

[atomic zephyr]

weh, im gonna have to LFG for it eventually
was very annoying trying to shoot an easy-shot poxwalker only for a voidstrike to turn it to dust

[neon marten]

This is weird cause im new but where do you get that report? is t a mod?

[junior needle]

yes

[fresh saddle]

throne dammit hadron >:C

🧱

[wanton dawn]

yes

[thin flame]

I'm curious, how IS infernus on helbores?

[frank basin]

I think they say is bad

I assumed

[tall torrent]

don't bother

[fresh saddle]

pointless, if things are alive long enough to burn, your Helbore isn't doing enough damage

if your Helbore is strong enough to one-shot, burn is unnecessary

[thin flame]

That's what I thought

[frank basin]

Infernus Lasgun infantry okay

[thin flame]

I probs need to spend some time on refining my helbore build. I run shout with a focus on crits, got surgical and onslaught on my mk1 and it's funny to have a 40% crit chance and rising the moment I aim down sights

[fresh saddle]

sounds like your build is doing fine

[thin flame]

Ehhh, I need to get a better melee

Yes I can use a chain sword but I like me shovel

[last parcel]

or you can just bayonet everything

[thin flame]

Eh, doesn't work as well on hordes but rest assured I bayonet alot

It is so satisfying to prepare my bayonet, tag a mutie, and my teammates whittle it down enough to down it with my stab to the face

[tall torrent]

shovel is stupidly difficult to roll

[thin flame]

Eeeeyep

Too many bloody blessings

[agile forge]

Can anybody give me a rundown of the 3 shovels? Wondering if one would fit well with my CIAG MF ES Deadshot bullshit build

[wanton dawn]

Freaking shame

[frank basin]

The zealot too busy meleeing

[wanton dawn]

Well, I am the one tagging the most out of my current sessions

Not suprising, I play focus target after all

Ahh ffs, power di does not register the weapons

Well, it kinda does ?

[timid otter]

There are some stats i do not need know

Tagging amount is one of them.

[winter grove]

If veteran with priority target doesn't have the most tags then something is wrong

[wanton dawn]

@bitter turtle I know you'll like this one

[frank basin]

Zero forge material

Bad player

[wanton dawn]

Imagine being poor

[frank basin]

I poor because I hate the scavenger hunt concept

[winter grove]

What are class chats stereotypes btw?

[frank basin]

Nuthin much but veteran soying about weapon nerf

[winter grove]

So far zealot chat has 50/50 chance to either ignore you completely or be helpful

[thin flame]

this is my shovel btw, just got home so figured i'd share this unfinished piece of kit

[lyric dock]

A very nice shovel you havethere

[junior needle]

Still quite bad on them

Infernus just needs a mechanical rework

[frank basin]

I have mg4 no respite and infernus

[junior needle]

My condolences

No respite does like nothing on them either

[frank basin]

That blessing need rework

[junior needle]

Yeah it's another headscratcher blessing

Falter is also really useless

[frank basin]

Is ignore resistance of stagger

Does that work on crusher?

[junior needle]

Ignore resistance of stagger?

[frank basin]

Falter yes

I read the description I think they changed

[junior needle]

I see no reason why falter wouldn't work on crushers

[fresh saddle]

Shovels

Standard-issue Munitorum Shovel

• Light attacks are diagonal slashes, with L3 being a horizontal slash
• Heavy attacks are CLONG, very easy and comfy horizontal sweeps for horde clear, great stagger but higher TTK because it knocks down horde instead of just killing them
• Special ability is a nice stagger-stab

Mk 3 Sapper Shovel

• Light attacks are diagonal slashes
• Heavy attacks are strikedown, H1 is diagonal, H2 is vertical, so great for single-target
• Diagonal attack pattern feels awkward for me for horde clear
• Special ability is flip shovel, even more single-target penetration

Mk 7 Sapper Shovel

• Light attacks: L1/L2 horizontal, L3/L4 diagonal swipes
• Heavy attacks: H1/H2 is very comfy very easy horizontal sweeps (just like Standard-issue, nice knockdown, but higher TTK instead of just killing them)
• Special ability is still flip shovel for single-target pen

The Mk 7 is my favourite because it's the best of both worlds, but I did have to build with +25% Unarmored and +25% Infected so i have decent horde clear with it (i got lucky with Thrust, would have loved Uncanny Strike)

Shovels all have really nice defensive ability and dodges, i find them very comfy and safe to use

[thin flame]

thrust is what i want over limbsplitter, be a mini-ogryn lol

[fresh saddle]

Mk 3 / Mk 7 with Thrust, and i have fun times one-shotting the Muties

[thin flame]

what goes best with thrust for mk7 blessings?

uncanny?

[agile forge]

I like the sound of the Mk VII

I figure you have bendy bonk for ST anyway

[fresh saddle]

i want Uncanny on mine to help with my horde clear

i run Krieg build with the Helbore, so the only time i'm breaking out the shovel is just to dig out of the mass of groaners

[thin flame]

what build do you use for your krieg? i use a deadshot with focus target

[fresh saddle]

yup same!

and Voice of Command

[wanton dawn]

Haven't tried a load of stuff since hotfix but I am definitely feeling the bolter rn

[fresh saddle]

i haven't used my Bolter since before the skill trees were first introduced, i should give it a try sometime

[wanton dawn]

Well, it is by far my best anti-special weapon

and anti-ranged elite

[thin flame]

i only tried it once and immediately dislikd how clunky it felt

[wanton dawn]

I do have a lot of experience with it

[odd sparrow]

bolter is ok at the moment. Its just outshined by plasma which murders things roughly as fast while also not being super clunky

[wanton dawn]

Nah, plasma does not murder "faster" due to heat mechanism limiting the RoF.

Plasma is better on melee elite though

[odd sparrow]

i did say roughly as fast

bolter mag dump is usually faster, but does then require a reload, so the uptime for damage isnt great on bolter. Its still decent though killing anything pretty fast, at the cost of needing to tech the long holster animation and slow reload

[wanton dawn]

You don't wanna mag dump with bolter

The ads has innate crit bonus

[odd sparrow]

i just miss instant reload

[winter grove]

Bolter is nice

[fresh saddle]

i'll give it a try again! probably have to look at my build though

[winter grove]

It's like

Plasma but it doesn't feel awful to use

For me

[fresh saddle]

i know the Plasma Gun has a lot of people that love it, and i've been with Vets who absolutely wreck all the specials with it

but it's always felt so awkward for me

the bolter i actually did like before

[winter grove]

It doesn't feel rewarding to me

[terse idol]

The bolter is just the better balanced weapn

The plasma is dumb

[winter grove]

Like

Plasma is just point and click adventure

[terse idol]

Yess

[wanton dawn]

I like them both

[winter grove]

Bolter has oomph to it

You know

Huge recoil

Gives you feeling that you use a powerful weapon

[wanton dawn]

Bolter has easier time sniping

but you do need to handle the clunkiness

[winter grove]

Sniper watching a bolt coming his way

[wanton dawn]

I honestly think bolter is the best anti-sniper weapon on vet

[winter grove]

You don't even need to headshot snipers

[wanton dawn]

Well, no need to headshot, cover penetration, huge suppression

reversed falloff on unarmored

[winter grove]

Oh so Bolter does wallbang

[wanton dawn]

Yeah, any standard shooter cover you blow right through

Also, bolter suppression is obscene

[winter grove]

Bolter

My favorite sniper rifle

[winter grove]

What perks should I even put on Bolter?

Atm it's flak/unyield

[wanton dawn]

I have maniac and elite (locked)

[frank basin]

I think flak already met breakpoint?

[arctic rampart]

wouldn't you want carapace/unyielding? most people using bolters for big boyz

[wanton dawn]

Bolter is not good on carapace

Well

It is not bad

but also not good

[frank basin]

So shatter impact on carapace?

[junior needle]

Long gone are the days of using the bolter to magdump

It is now a dmr

[wanton dawn]

You take pinning and surgical nowaydays

[arctic rampart]

Interesting on zealot I used to take it for dealing with big boyz. I never bothered on vet since there's more fun options (IMO)

[winter grove]

I wanna keep unyielding because it turns bosses into jokes

[wanton dawn]

Vet and zealot don't play the bolter the same way at all

[winter grove]

Also bulwarks extra bully

[frank basin]

I put surgical and pinning fire on zealot

[junior needle]

You can take unyielding but your breakpoints will suffer for it

[wanton dawn]

On vet if you want to deal with armor plasma is the way to go

[winter grove]

Well

It's locked

[arctic rampart]

On my zealot I"m melee 24/7 until a horde of baddies come out and need flame grenade and|or magdump 😄

[winter grove]

[agile forge]

Tbf on Zealot if you want to deal with armour, well

gesticulates wildly at literally everything apart from heavy sword

[arctic rampart]

Flamer with F up, or bolt gun are the best options I discovered

[agile forge]

XV Evis seems to kill anything with a heavy (revved for ogryn)

[frank basin]

How heavy sword deal carapace enemy?

[agile forge]

Gun lmao

[arctic rampart]

well either you're a god and can dodge everything perfectly or u dont

[agile forge]

But you can also Special H1 loop

If you are forced

[arctic rampart]

bulwark always do the swing then u dodge left and smack em tho

[frank basin]

Bulwark do uppercut

[wanton dawn]

Fun fact: bolter has cleave but also explosion properties

In other word you only cleave if target are super close to one another

[frank basin]

Does that work with shatter impact when three armor dude super close together?

[wanton dawn]

I dont play shatter

[frank basin]

I might go test again

[tall torrent]

zealot has fury to downgrade carapace into flak ADM, and has better crit chance in magdump build

vet boltgun is almost exclusively a precision dmr

[wanton dawn]

Also vet has deadshot

[arctic rampart]

eww, not really

[wanton dawn]

If you dont take deadshot with bolter atm you are losing out

[novel stone]

Fellas whats the best mk6 combat knife blessings?

[junior needle]

Uncanny and something else

You have a few options

But keep in mind, if you want to light spam, mk3 is objectively better

[novel stone]

Im too addicted to heavy

[wanton dawn]

Yey, I managed to get the mutie OS with no setup at all

[novel stone]

If nobody got me, I know @junior needle got me
Can I get an amen

[last parcel]

Prayge

[novel stone]

Any other time I'll either get no responses

[junior needle]

Riposte or precog are the most taken second blessings

Flesh tearer is hard to justify on vet

[winter grove]

@junior needle so basically I need flak/maniac bolter ye?

[junior needle]

I saw people recommending that as a setup but I don't use it currently so that's secondhand information

It would make sense for the most important breakpoints

The only one that might suffer for that would be dreg gunner heads

[tall torrent]

Flak + maniac/unyielding

[winter grove]

Thanks

[umbral parrot]

Going to be honest. Being a low level is so much fun on Damnation!

But yea, Vet Clas is so good in melee. I can hardly get the same results with the Preist because getting your stamina back takes forever!

[serene bough]

where's your gun buddy?

[umbral parrot]

Spent! Down to the last drop. Had to use my teeth and fists by the end of it.

Not like it matters. I'm sure all true sons of Cadia can block any incoming attacks with ease.

[tame lodge]

Ah yes, the Cadian surprise

[umbral parrot]

Upon realizing it.... maybe bitting a Poxwalker is not such a good idea....

[shadow dagger]

did celerity stim always fully refresh stamina

[white minnow]

ye

[frank basin]

https://tenor.com/view/ja-raha-mai-koi-nahi-aone-cheems-doge-kutta-gif-23423779

[shadow dagger]

i have field improvisation on but i saw someone drop a medkit that didnt clear corruption

do i need to recheck or is this supposed to happen

[frank basin]

If he has one wound taken it can’t not be clear

I means if he downed previously

[raw steppe]

It clears up until the next bar

[frank basin]

Field improvise can’t restore wound

[shadow dagger]

oh

[tame lodge]

It's good for Beast of Nurgle purposes

[dusty nacelle]

wut does a Psword want? Pc4 anddd bromentum?

[raw steppe]

Or sunder

[flat vessel]

worthy pick up?

[junior needle]

I would

for sure

[sinful jacinth]

Give it a go. Maybe lucky.

Gets Hot is already on there though. Only thing now if hope for blaze away and maniacs or flak.

[junior needle]

It's a tier one gets hot

Which is like half the value

Last I checked you don't want flak and want maniac/elites or something

[sinful jacinth]

I mean it's already on there. Like you can't get a T4. :p

[junior needle]

You could change it before rolling, but that highly depends on what you get for purple

It's a good strategy for shooting for optimal setups

I'd rate gloryhunter better than blaze personally

[sinful jacinth]

For each there own I guess.

[junior needle]

Uh huh

[tiny summit]

I don't really care for blaze away since it's only more dmg on continuous fire and most things are gonna die to the first shot or a follow up anways

[junior needle]

Blaze isn't quite as useful on plasma as other guns

You're wanting to reach most breakpoints in a one tap so it ends up being extra cleave most of the time

And that's only when you're spamming in quick succession

[late hatch]

very good game huh?

portal to the realm of nurgle

[junior needle]

Small indie company of about 180 people

Please understand

[tame lodge]

Just brewery things

[late hatch]

game got drunk

[vernal harbor]

guys they’re doing their best (no way they’re college graduates)

[frank basin]

Making game is kinda like investment

Or just like artist making a living

[tall torrent]

flak is good

better consistency vs mauler, both gunners, potential of scab rager 1 shot and better reaper 2 shot

elite is priority

[frank basin]

What maniac for?

Specialist enemies?

[tall torrent]

maniac is not the biggest difference maker, only rly helps with flamer bodyshot if u put a lot of talents into that

longshot + redirect fire

might need AE too

[frank basin]

Isn’t redirect fire are no enemy within 15m boost damage?

[tall torrent]

no...

redirect fire is tag keystone modifier

7.5% dmg

[frank basin]

Oh that

[tall torrent]

flak gives u potential mauler 2 tap bodyshot non crit

if ur roll is good

flak + elite

with LS + RF

[frank basin]

I think maniac not needed you say?

[tall torrent]

if ur dmg & SP rolls are near max u can one tap dreg rager headshot non crit without maniac

[tall torrent]

it's an ok choice

I don't think it's as good as flak

because the 2 main targets it helps against both like to run close to u

easier headshots

flak gives u better gunner 1 shot consistency

bodyshot non crit

and you could be shooting them way further than flamers

[frank basin]

What about Dreg?

Dreg enemies

[tall torrent]

dreg gunner chest 1 shot

because it's flak armor

at long range

[frank basin]

Is unarmored

Flak one is scab

[tall torrent]

pls go check for urself

he has flak torso

he also uses flak ADM for DoT effects

[frank basin]

What? That since gamelatern shown long ago

[tall torrent]

you can load into game and shoot him rn

[frank basin]

This game messed up

[tall torrent]

he has flak torso

unarmored limbs & head

and since his torso is flak

DoT effects scale off of flak ADM

[frank basin]

That’s weird. Have soldier 69 known Dreg gunner has flak armor?

[tall torrent]

probably for a very long time

[frank basin]

He never tell me

[tall torrent]

u can figure things out by urself

meat grinder exists

[frank basin]

Okay looks like game latern did update put flak on chest

[tall torrent]

a lot of enemies are mixed in armor they wear

[frank basin]

Kinda messed up design

Everyone going rely flak perk by now

[tall torrent]

that's like the least of this game's issues

it's been there since practically forever

enemies can be "not entirely flak"

we say dreg gunner is unarmored because headshots are expected

but flak gives plasma bodyshot at long range with LS+RF/tag

ur still supposed to aim headshot anyway

it's just extra layer of consistency

there's nothing wrong with it

[frank basin]

And Dreg shotgunner?

Has flak?

[tall torrent]

dude u can literally go shoot at them rn

lol

[frank basin]

I’m off computer

[tall torrent]

if u see a non-armored part on an enemy

it's most likely not in flak armor

unarmored/infested/maniac/unyielding

this includes even scab shotgunners' arms

[frank basin]

Dreg shotgunenr also have flak armor, that’s another messed up

(Looking on game latern)

[tall torrent]

what's messed up abt it

u aim headshot 95% time anyways

both ranged & melee

ofc breakpoint calculations will use their heads

[frank basin]

Talking about plasma

[tall torrent]

yea u still aim headshot like a solid 80% time with it

flamer & gunner

ragers

reapers

all 3 ogryn enemies tbh

[frank basin]

Rager bit twitchy

[tall torrent]

the only enemies u don't rly need to aim for headshot are the ones that u know u can bodyshot 1 tap very consistently

[late hatch]

the only enemy you should really not aim at head is maulers right? coz they have flak body and cara head?

[frank basin]

Plasma like railgun from hd2

[tall torrent]

depends on weapon, generally yes

melee weapons can differ in this quite a lot

combat axe, power sword, folded shovel, knife, etc all want headshots

chainsword aim for body

[frank basin]

Why chainsword can’t aim at the head?

[bitter turtle]

Lower damage on carapace

[late hatch]

chainsword sucks into cara

[frank basin]

That one k

Oh ya talking about mauler

Make sense

[gilded wraith]

Reload Speed or Flak for the Perk?

[bitter turtle]

Definitely not reload speed at least

[gilded wraith]

Gotcha. Wasn't sure if it gained value from the kants small ammo capacity

[bitter turtle]

It's not that reload speed is a bad stat

But the one on perks is tiny

Like 10 percent no?

Just take tactical reload or something

[gilded wraith]

I think so. True.

[bitter turtle]

Wep specialist has another reload boost if you want more

Both of those are 20 percent

Volley adept is 30 but special action consumes the reload speed buff so it can be iffy on shotgun

[gilded wraith]

Thanks, think I'll work on a deadshot build for it.

[bitter turtle]

Deadshot is good ya

[gilded wraith]

Matching pair... so now I probably won't like them

[bitter turtle]

I don't like flechette personally

Felt like killing with extra steps

[gilded wraith]

Yeah, it didn't thrill me. I tried it first.

[bitter turtle]

Try no respite too

[gilded wraith]

Leaning towards the manstopper and focusing on regular bullets.

I've got this one tucked away. Just trying to work my way through them. Columnus is so addictive.

[tame lodge]

My addiction is the Lawbringer

[bitter turtle]

I think agri is the best of the 3 on vet

Personally

[gilded wraith]

I do love the slug shot.

[bitter turtle]

Vet has a ton of reload buffs

So you can make it pretty damn fast

[gilded wraith]

My controls just get wonky if I get hit while ads

[bitter turtle]

To special action load

And wep specialist for guarantee slug crit

[gilded wraith]

I'll give it a shot with wep

Thanks

I think I was doing focus fire

[bitter turtle]

Yeah I find shotguns rely on melee a lot so I run all with wep specialist

Swap and blow elites apart with slugs

[gilded wraith]

Does the Marksman's Focus Rending add on work yet?

[bitter turtle]

It always worked

It's just mediocre

[gilded wraith]

Weird, didn't see it in the training room previously when I shot enemies... maybe UI?

[bitter turtle]

I don't think there is a buff on the ui

But it is very noticeable on some guns

[umbral scaffold]

whats perks are good with plasma. I got reload speed for one

[frank basin]

flak and unyielding/maniac/elite

The guy told me flak is all time because can one shot bodyshot on elite enemy

Mauler I think he said 2 bodyshot

[wanton dawn]

Carapace for no ammo maelstrom

[agile forge]

Still makes me laugh that we get 10% rending as a relatively difficult to maintain keystone modifier... when the next tree over just has 10% rending all the time as a connecting node on the way down

[tiny summit]

Yep...like why fatshark? I also think grenade tinkerer has a troll placement when Krak grenades already delete crushers and below.

[crude fiber]

id say shredder unless crushers are killing you a lot

[junior needle]

Shredders are consistently better options

[tropic stratus]

guys i have 1 more modification. what should i do to this

[timid otter]

Doesnt work in the psykanium

[lyric dock]

Power Cycler 4 once you eventually get it

[wanton dawn]

Keep as is. Both perk are good

Save for pc4

[lyric dock]

And once you get BM 4 you can upgrade BM 3 to it since you already modify the slot

[agile forge]

PC4 is a lie, it doesn't exist

Unless you are dry on melkbux

[glossy falcon]

Any advice on stat priority (or dump stats) for the chainsword? It has so many stats that seem to affect damage

[dire olive]

As for most things, dump mobility

But have at least 50%

[junior needle]

Isn't it 51% for the dodge breakpoint?

[junior needle]

Shredder is the least prioritized damage stat due to only applying to the weapon special

[ripe totem]

I like high shredder stats just to be able to oneshot a mutie as it skims past you with a dodge

unless this happens already with low shredder values

in which case IDK lol

[final stag]

Earlier I was playing with a friend, and I was grinding a new vet so I can get some blessings. Anyways my friend isn't terribly good and he went down. My level 15 loose cannon male veteran says to his veteran "Useless old drunk aren't ya?" And it made me Hollar, it was so funny to hear in the midst of battle.

[balmy flume]

Vet lines are generally a barrel of laughs

even Professional Vets get some

[final stag]

It was such an unexpected jab
I was so zoned into the game that when he said that it gave me joy
Love the dialog in the game. Silly.

[void rampart]

Loose Cannon is probably my favourite personality in the whole game

[final stag]

Such a scoundrel

[void rampart]

still gets plenty of laughs out of me, even when I feel like I've heard everything

[final stag]

He has my second favorite voicelines in the game

His VoC is also quite goated
Instead of the vengeance or commissary vibes from Cutthroat and professional it's motivational in a Kruber way.

[void rampart]

Certainly, Mercenary was my main class in Vermintide as well

my first 100 wins I got was on Kruber

[final stag]

My first was with huntsman 💀

[void rampart]

Ough

It took me very long to finally get how to play Huntsman

[final stag]

I enjoyed longbow and generally didn't like how kerillian played so I stuck it out with huntsman

[void rampart]

To this day the only class I can't play at all is Handmaiden. I understand she's an agile tank sorta frontliner but, Kerillian is just so boring in that role, especially when Footknight and Ironbreaker are so much better at that job

Like, I can play her but I don't enjoy her

[final stag]

Same, I got her to 30 and found her super strong
I just find her boring

Found everyone way more fun but grinding her was a slog and I don't know why fbrnbf

[void rampart]

I don't even remember my grind it was way back in 2018 💀

[dawn garnet]

b-bros....

[void rampart]

Nowadays fun factor from most to least is probably:

Kruber
Saltzpyre
Bardin
Sienna
Kerillian

for me

[final stag]

Saltzpyre
Kruber
Bardin/sienna
Kerillian

[void rampart]

it's highly dependant on classes as well, like I enjoy playing, idk, Unchained more than Warrior Priest (probably a hot take lol)

[void rampart]

Just wait until Hadron gets her vices on this

[dawn garnet]

it already has flak how bad can it be

[void rampart]

Two bad rolls and you're stuck with Limbsplitter or worse

[dawn garnet]

one way to find out

🤔

soooo thrust for limbsplitter and maniac?

[void rampart]

I dunno the science on this one so no advice

[final stag]

God I love shovels

[void rampart]

in my head I wanna imagine limbsplitter n thrust would instantly tear a crusher's head off but i wouldn't waste that shovel to find out

[final stag]

With uncanny strike you can just light wail on a crusher and win
Not effectively but you'd win

I haven't tried the new shovels yet so I've been using old trusty 💀

[umbral garnet]

Just tried out the MK4 chainaxe for the first time.

[final stag]

How is it

[umbral garnet]

What a dogshit horde weapon lmao

[final stag]

I find most of the chain weapons to be utter dogshit to hordes

[umbral garnet]

Decent at single target, though.

[umbral garnet]

My chainsword shreds.

Badumtss

But everyone says the new one absolutely sucks. I dunno why, I have been using it for horde clear a long while and I haven't had issues.

[final stag]

I just find the hit trajectory awkward as shit so I will stay using weapons with horizontal combos or strikedowns

[umbral garnet]

Me shovel.

Standard Issue is great and all but me foldy shovel.

Love it to bits.

[void rampart]

It certainly isn't, the mk 12 is fantastic. I dunno about comparing the two chainaxes cause they have sorta different roles

[final stag]

I haven't tried yet
I want to but I'm so accustomed to the moveset

[void rampart]

I hate the mk 4 on Vet, but on Zealot it's pretty good

opposite classes for mk 12

[umbral garnet]

I see, I see.

I've seen a lot of frustrated takes on the Mk12 being terrible compared to the 4

[tame lodge]

Don't you have to stop attacking to charge splitter?

[void rampart]

The mk 4 rips apart armour way faster than the mk 12, crit spam on zealot allows you to take down everything above ragers with 3-4 light swings or less

on Vet though, I'm not experienced enough to say but I remember disliking the mk 4, gave it another go after a while and still didn't like it. I prefer the mk 12's horde clear, shredders or a decent gun will take down armour

[final stag]

I'm a simple man
I enjoy bonk weapons

Unless it's my stealth vet
Then knife is the way
A very consistent build that is

[junior needle]

Chainaxes have very mid horde clear across the board compared to other weapons. They can still do it decently with power stacking (and melee talents), but it's largely unimpressive.

[sinful jacinth]

Horde clear might not be that great. I find it doable. The thing is that I can rip through a crusher in one hit. 😄

[junior needle]

Chainaxes do excel at single target deletion

Although perhaps not as smoothly as other weapons, which also excel at horde clear

[umbral garnet]

Like my BLOODY SHOVEL

But yes, I noticed the single target power is its strength.

[junior needle]

Shovels aren't particularly good for clear speed, they do have good horde control though

[umbral garnet]

Sure, the clear isn't being handled, but damn if it isn't good hearing that BONK

[junior needle]

[sinful jacinth]

I tried all the shovels. Find horde clear also kinda mid.

The blue one can chonk elites in one hit with the fold action.

[umbral garnet]

If you just want to maximise horde clear, power sword, obviously. It's THE best melee for the vet, especially with the mk6 crusher two shot.

But c'mon

Shovels are great.

[junior needle]

rashad has better clear than the psword

[umbral garnet]

One shot Crusher stab with a shovel to the face is infinitely more entertaining.

[umbral garnet]

Really?

[junior needle]

crusher twoshots also require tree investment last I checked

[final stag]

Huh strange
I find my shovel killing poxwalkers and bruisers in one shot on the initial smack
Then again my trusty shovel is just built to kill hordes and that's it

[junior needle]

Turns out mulching bruisers with lights while also not needing to charge means faster clear

[sinful jacinth]

You can 2 shot a crusher with the blue one.

[final stag]

I like the defensive stats on the shovel however

[junior needle]

But you need to hit the bruiser breakpoints

[umbral garnet]

Precision strikes lets me meet that BP easy.

I think.

'Course you need good rolls on the sword, too.

[final stag]

Decent dodge range and count, and a good block stamina considering the damage it can do

I dislike the power sword simply because of the dodge gimp

[junior needle]

I dislike power sword for the constant need to charge

[sinful jacinth]

This.

[final stag]

I seen too many vets go down using the sword

[umbral garnet]

Speaking of Rashad, still trying to roll a good one.

[final stag]

I don't trust the dang thing just give me the shovel

[sinful jacinth]

Swing swing swing move back a bit charge and do it again.

Atm testing Cata 1 for horde clear.

[junior needle]

It's very difficult

[umbral garnet]

I have a DC4. Heavies for days.

[sinful jacinth]

I still need a good base for that one. I bricked so many.

[final stag]

I used a very off meta build on Auric today and it worked swimmingly (for the maelstrom) of course I was as fragile as a wet noodle but nothing a but of defending yourself doesn't fix.

[umbral garnet]

79 Dmg
79 Cleave Dmg
79 Finesse
71 Cleave

Absolute butter knife through heads.

[serene bough]

cant get behind DC

[umbral garnet]

Also, my bad, it's a light heavy light heavy alternating combo.

[serene bough]

dislike having minimal armor damage with my melee weapon

[umbral garnet]

It's why I run plasma on the build I have it with.

[tame lodge]

Knife
12 DMG
63 mob
79 pen
80 fin
80 fir

[umbral garnet]

Just out of curiousity what base are you looking for with a Rashad

[junior needle]

70+ in the offensive stats at least depending on how many melee damage boosts you're taking

[umbral garnet]

So Dmg, Pen, Fin and First Target?

[junior needle]

yes

Finesse affects crit/weakspot damage as well as attack speed on melee weapons

However "finesse" bonuses from talents/blessings do not seem to affect the attack speed portion

[junior needle]

The armor damage is loaded into the parries

[umbral garnet]

Oh hey look a Crusher Overhead

[final stag]

I hate those moments you expect to dodge the crusher overhead only for it to somehow crunch you like an ant

[tame lodge]

Let me revive you while this crusher starts his animation

[final stag]

The worst

I just remembered how you couldn't dodge melee attacks with your ranged weapon out

That was a tough beta

[serene bough]

too slow

dont like waiting 3s for a crusher overhead just to confirm a kill

not to mention it becomes a bit more tricky when there's multiple armored enemies

[junior needle]

I agree

[final stag]

I find the parry only good against Ragers but fuck attempting to parry 5 of those assholes

[serene bough]

yeah its a weapon that needs to be paired with an armor pen weapon, not to mention the parry is situational

[final stag]

It's good for dueling bosses however

If your character is squishy anyways
Besides that everyone has better options with dueling

[tame lodge]

100%

[serene bough]

im spoiled from the knife w/ uncanny strikes, mobility is too valuable for me

[final stag]

I love the knife too
My stealth vet that I usually rock on Auric maelstrom uses the knife and puts in work

[serene bough]

same

personally i compensate with worse horde clear w/ shredder frags and bleeds

and in the off occasion mag dumping into enemies w/ mg4 ilas

[final stag]

I find my knife more than capable with dealing with hordes all the way to carapace but falls off on bosses

[junior needle]

Boss heads are usually harder to hit

[final stag]

Plus if you are dealing damage they start to beat the every loving shit out of you and unlike the other Frontliners stealth vet can't trade

[serene bough]

usually with bosses i wait for someone to stagger then push attack spam their weakspot

otherwise ill just flick light attacks if im being focused and cant disengage

[final stag]

Overhead heby with knife does some decent damage against them but that's why you have a team, you can't deal with the boss then someone will most definitely

[junior needle]

you have a team
This is a rather bold assumption in quickplay.

[final stag]

True

It's either cracked players or players with the dexterity of a sloth

But I can admire the new players dipping their toes in the difficulty

As long as my teammates don't rage quit from their first down
I'm usually okay with them

[rugged garnet]

Knife is good

I like to use the Bleed Build I have

Knife with bleed stacks

And that one shotty with flechette rounds

[junior needle]

Please don't tell me you're using lacerate

[rugged garnet]

Deal with it

[junior needle]

Jesus Christ

[rugged garnet]

Yes?

[junior needle]

Why have you chosen this path of sin

[rugged garnet]

You are the sinners

[tame lodge]

Vet has access to bleed, so....

[final stag]

I am

[junior needle]

You're a towel

[umbral scaffold]

bleed builds are in #zealot-class , wrong place here

[rugged garnet]

You questioned Corp starch and now you’re in prison

[final stag]

Bleed builds work well with like all the classes besides the psykers and their wizardry

[rugged garnet]

Psyker

[final stag]

Funny magic people

[rugged garnet]

Psykers and Guns lowkey go hard

[final stag]

TRUE

I'm a gunpsyker enjoyed

Enjoyer***

[rugged garnet]

That one skull perk helps with guns I’m pretty sure

Idk I don’t know the game like that

[umbral scaffold]

https://tenor.com/view/ffs-baby-really-oh-god-just-stop-gif-1639610178022128587

[final stag]

Scriers gaze?

[rugged garnet]

I just play to play

[final stag]

Imagine using magic?

Give the autogun with extra crit please

[rugged garnet]

Cannot. Currently occupied, My Child

[umbral scaffold]

lord=The Emprah.....get out of my lawn minor god

[rugged garnet]

I don’t see many burst guns

Burst guns are very fun to use

[final stag]

Ima say it, I chose the cutthroat voice because I found the voice oddly attractive.

[rugged garnet]

I chose professional

[umbral scaffold]

isn't the guy Karl The Derangend from emeprah's speech to text?

[final stag]

I heard cutthroat and was like
Hehjejej had me kicking my feet
Haven't regretted it.

[rugged garnet]

Vet: Professional
Zealot: Fanatic
Ogryn: The one that says sah a lot
Psyker: Hot French Lady

[final stag]

Huh wh

[junior needle]

Anyway, lacerate is a very counterproductive blessing currently and needs a rework.

One of the few that actually gimps you for trying to use it

[final stag]

Vet: cutthroat
Zealot: fanatic
Ogryn: brawler
Psyker: seer

[rugged garnet]

Play auric with me when I finish leveling my vet

[umbral scaffold]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-vvP6DrLGo

[rugged garnet]

I accidentally deleted my old Ver character and now I have to redo it

[umbral scaffold]

the inquisitor voiceline....same guy of the cutthroout voiceline imo

[rugged garnet]

Kinda pissed but low levels are fun to watch

[final stag]

They are aren't they

[serene bough]

people say this but i tend to find uncanny + flesh tearer is too good to pass on vet

[final stag]

The other day I was playing malice as level 7 and clutched for 3 level 20s and I was like
Huh that's wild

[serene bough]

just synergizes well w/ reciprocity and shredder frags

[rugged garnet]

They’re playing the game like everyone else. Can’t judge them

But by me they get annoying sometimes

[final stag]

Yeah Veteran has a lot of bleed synergy

[junior needle]

You can take flesh tearer on vet but it's not nearly as good as on zealot

[final stag]

I like to teach new players

[rugged garnet]

Whatchu McAllister

[serene bough]

doesnt vet have higher melee crit chance than zealot w/ buffs considered

[rugged garnet]

Weapon Soecslist

[final stag]

Vet if built right
For 5 seconds
Can out perform a Zealot

[austere pine]

beta helmet veteran encounter no. 2

still sub-par at the game

[junior needle]

Not quite. It has bleed sources, not bleed synergy. Bleed synergy would be something like scourge or mercy killer.

[junior needle]

NO

LMAO

[rugged garnet]

Knife is too good

[serene bough]

what the difference between the two

[final stag]

For 5 measly seconds vet can be blender

[rugged garnet]

But I like the Sapper shovel for crowd controlling

[junior needle]

You can get 75% constant crit chance on zealot just with scourge and piety

[final stag]

Zealot on average has better melee buffs and weapons

[serene bough]

ah yeah, vet can get upto 50% with the knife iirc

[junior needle]

Reciprocity, while ok, takes awhile to stack and isn't nearly as on demand or constant

[austere pine]

zealot can be a blender for an infinite amount of time, so long the blood keeps flowing

[rugged garnet]

Me wondering why zealot can regen on range kills but the ranged class can’t

[junior needle]

So your crit uptime is also lower

[serene bough]

chill, i dont play zealot

[final stag]

Zealot is way more consistent

But again for 5 seconds if built correctly a veteran can also become a blender and a damn good one too

[austere pine]

yup. 2/3 keystones are perma uptime in fights

[serene bough]

even so, uncanny strikes is the real thing that carries flesh tearer

[junior needle]

You still need crit to proc it

[serene bough]

throw a shredder and proc some crits and you can bleed through a lot of enemies without needing to invest 2 shredders

[junior needle]

And more is better on that end

[serene bough]

the knife crits quite often

[final stag]

Knife has an innate crit chance

[serene bough]

50% is for sure less than 75% but 50% is still very frequent

[junior needle]

Yes, I know. But more is still better with flesh tearer

[final stag]

Veteran and zealot have the same base crit chance however

[rugged garnet]

Shut up about the knives and use a real weapon

Axe

🪓

[final stag]

Shobel

[rugged garnet]

Love choppin heads off

[serene bough]

even so, it's not hard to justify flesh tearer on vet

[junior needle]

This assumes 100% uptime on fully stacked reciprocity, which is not practical.

[final stag]

Uncanny strikes and mercy killer go hard

[serene bough]

if you're engaged in melee in any capacity with knife reciprocity is very easy to proc

[rugged garnet]

Since I’m here

I need a good axe build. The combat axe

[junior needle]

Yes, easy to proc slowly.

[serene bough]

dont agree

a dodge can proc multiple recip stacks

[junior needle]

Is that so, lemme check

[serene bough]

well sure, just logically if multiple things are attacking you and you dodge multiple attacks at once it'll proc multiple stacks

[junior needle]

This is a fatshark game

Logic doesn't apply

[serene bough]

true

[junior needle]

See crit damage calculations

It's not gimping yourself like lacerate is, but flesh tearer is not as comparable to other options on vet. Even on zealot, flesh tearer is at best a sidegrade to precog and riposte depending on your setup.

[serene bough]

precog and riposte i tend to notice my performance goes down

in a psychanium DPS test? sure it's probably better. In a frantic scenario where you need to kite and bleed chip damage is penetrating armor w/ uncanny's assistance? definitely useful

it's not flesh tearer alone, but rather the combination of uncanny + shredder frag + flesh tear

[junior needle]

Uncanny does apply to the grenades, yes

[serene bough]

1 grenade + 1 flesh tear = full stack

[junior needle]

or you can just hit a target twice or so

3 times about for vet

[serene bough]

same if you take flesh tear w/ full uncanny

maybe its 4 jabs instead of 3

but bleed is still useful when kiting multiple enemies and you cant land the hit as easily

[junior needle]

50% crit is chancy

oh whoops

wrong quote

You're probably playing in such a way that's trying to leverage bleed while you're running the other blessings

I did the same thing

when I was trying out other blessings on my zealot

[serene bough]

yes like i mentioned, shredder + uncanny + flesh tear

even if you find precog or ripose better in DPS, it's still a viable combo that i find useful

[junior needle]

Yeah I dunno why you're mentioning that again

[serene bough]

bc this

[junior needle]

Uh huh, but this is in a melee situation

In which you're using other blessings

You're just listing your favorite combo

[serene bough]

yes, uncanny is a blessing being used in this melee situation lol

[junior needle]

And it's not really relevant to what I'm trying to say

...

Your playstyle

How you actually go about the melee

[serene bough]

as any knife user would, go for weakspots

its just that bleed can significantly benefit from the use of knife + uncanny, so flesh tearer is definitely a viable option

[junior needle]

If you're used to perma kiting to leverage bleed and dodging in circles around a horde without finishing things off, it's going to feel worse

[serene bough]

no

[junior needle]

It's "viable", but not as good on vet

[serene bough]

sometimes you can just weakspot spam a crusher to death and not worry about bleed, sometimes you are in a more frenetic situation and cannot just weakspot spam a crusher

[junior needle]

I know, I play uncanny/flesh tearer zealot

[serene bough]

in said scenario, bleed sources (shredder + flesh tear) synergize well w/ uncanny and can be a boon

zealot does not have shredder frags

[junior needle]

Uh huh

[serene bough]

this isn't really difficult to understand youre just being willingly stubborn

[junior needle]

I'm really not, you're talking about grenades and I'm talking about flesh tearer specifically.

Ofc you're going to take uncanny on any knife setup atm

[serene bough]

ive made this very clear previously

[final stag]

Uncanny is amazing

[junior needle]

You don't really need flesh tearer to leverage uncanny and bleed nades, but alright

[serene bough]

i dont understand why you'd isolate a single blessing alone to discuss its utility its not really that logical

[junior needle]

I'll leave you to your preferences

[serene bough]

precog and riposte are not great either without uncanny bc uncanny carries the knife

[junior needle]

The discussion was about flesh tearer on vet, why would I talk about a blessing I wonder

Looks like reciprocity can multistack, neat

[serene bough]

its not about discussing the blessing thats the problem but rather your myopic viewpoint on the discussion, of course im talking about the blessing in combination with other perks because that's how you'd make a build

[junior needle]

"myopic"

[serene bough]

if we're going to regress to kekw emotes instead of discussing the build we can simply leave the discussion here

[junior needle]

I dunno guy, you got pretty worked up just because we weren't quite on the same page

[serene bough]

i dont agree, Im just stating my argument in the discussion

[junior needle]

Relax, no need to resort to insinuations

Oh excuse me, unpleasant ones

[serene bough]

I dont find any point in quibbling over these semantics, i have no interest in pursuing this topic further

[junior needle]

Uh huh. Well let's say from my perspective that this doesn't look like simply "stating your argument". Also calling me "myopic".

[serene bough]

im just stating what I see

[junior needle]

I'm just stating I think you need to relax then

[void rampart]

how does any of this benefit my smoke grenade max stamina -90% threat invis build tho

[junior needle]

Smoking nades will help you relax under pressure or something, and you can use invis to chillout while your toughness regens

Just be careful in case there's something addictive in the smoke

[void rampart]

smoke break build sounds about right

[tall torrent]

If u don’t know what you’re doing, neither does your enemies!

I’m not detailing every single thing but I’ll cover most of the important things for veteran

[inland orchid]

that is basically every single thing imo

Vet is a walking swiss army knife

[tall torrent]

Need to finish ranged weapons’ pages

[final stag]

Vet is super versatile

[tall torrent]

Then I can do some example builds

[final stag]

I have 5 builds on vet for a reason

[tall torrent]

Sneak peek

[final stag]

Homies going In depth

[tall torrent]

11827 words rn

And counting

[final stag]

I'm too lazy to read allat however
I just wing builds through trial and error fjfnnf

[tall torrent]

It’s like, about as condensed as I can make it be

[final stag]

3 of my vet builds are auric playable
1 is damnation
1 is a meme

[tall torrent]

Without leaving out important info

[final stag]

I see all these words and numbers and it makes me confused

[tall torrent]

Maybe I should have a legend page for all the terminology used

[final stag]

I mean I know a good deal of terminology in the game I just can't be bothered to do the cold hard math
I wing it and if it works then I continue to add and tinker with it until it is viable

[junior needle]

The cold hard math can be difficult to do accurately depending on the topic

Mr creme spent a whole lot of effort trying to figure out effective crit rate with crit strings in the mix

And the math used appears to not be for the everyman

[tall torrent]

I’m not doing cold hard math

Am way too lazy for that

[junior needle]

wise choice

[tall torrent]

I’ll just cover what blessings & perks u want

[junior needle]

Too many variables

[tall torrent]

And for melee weapons, what movesets are your general best options

[wanton dawn]

The math for crit ?

There is a simple formila

crit_len/(crit_len - 1 + 1/crit%)

[tall torrent]

Can anyone check

If ruthless backstab’s “rending bonus”

Impacts DoT like bleed

[odd sparrow]

rending doesnt interact with dots as far as im aware

[final stag]

Shamk

[tall torrent]

Uncanny strike helps DoT

Thunderous does too

[agile forge]

It definitely works with soulblaze

Try hitting uncanny after applying some to a crusher

[odd sparrow]

well i guess im wrong

[tiny summit]

Don't feel bad, many people have been wrong at one point over fatshark gameplay mechanics and interactions

[tame lodge]

It's not like there's a glossary

[winged warren]

i want :v

Imo it just has to be structured well so the practical information is loaded up front, alongside the "game doesn't tell you information"

[slow spade]

"Omg Exhilarating Takedown seems so good I wonder why people don't use it" UwU

[final stag]

You'd think with the amount of hours I've sunk in tide games I'd understand every mechanic sadly I do not fjjfjf

[tiny summit]

I mean there's fighting game players like this

[final stag]

Me when button spam

[agile forge]

Is that the one that used to be bugged to give you damage vulnerability?

[slow spade]

Yes

Funny times

[agile forge]

Is it fixed now at least? My ES build uses it as its only toughness gen >_>

(Why yes I do get gibbed a lot the moment the enemy reaches me)

[tiny summit]

It is

[odd sparrow]

was only broken for 1 patch

but man did it feel bad

[tiny summit]

I rarely take it as my only toughness gen talent but I've been liking it on my Exe MF laspistol build

[odd sparrow]

getting insta downed by 2 trash mobs reaching you

[agile forge]

Veteran builds are way too point thirsty, especially for fast firing weapons

[odd sparrow]

confirmed kill is basically mandatory with how much value it gives

[agile forge]

I could get another but I would need to drop either a bunch of damage talents or grenade regen

CIAG get headshots for days, is my logic

[tiny summit]

Having 4-5 CK procs going off with Iron Will is great

[agile forge]

So that might be enough to cover me?

[winged warren]

thats similar to a kara cancel right

[odd sparrow]

confirmed kill is stupid strong because it provides both instant toughness and the regen over time helps keeping you topped above 75% so iron will stays active

[final stag]

Doesn't vet have the highest base toughness regen from kill (not counting talents)

[tiny summit]

Eh I wouldn't say that, games like SF and KoF just bank that input for the super for the cancels

[agile forge]

I'll have to see if I can afford to lose anything

I just like having literally all the damage boosts, the power trip is so addictive

[tiny summit]

CIAG with its lower base dmg and ranges you use it at, to me just seems like lower value with Longshot as opposed to how fast it can kill CK valid targets and the DR from the talent above CK

[agile forge]

Base damage is irrelevant for a % boost

[junior needle]

Yep

It's a % boost, the dps is ultimately what matters

[odd sparrow]

yes, but base regen doesnt work while taking damage, confirmed kill does.

sry misunderstood, yes also from kills, but its still the same % as the other classes 5% toughness regened on melee kill

[agile forge]

I'm trying to do the gunker thing

Stack E Stance, Deadshot, MF, all the passive damage boosts from the middle leg of the tree

[final stag]

Huh neat

[slow spade]

The best part is Confirmed Kill is heavily nerfed

[junior needle]

It does give less overall regen than it used to

[final stag]

I found out today that the talent that grants you extra % toughness from kills also works on grenades

[slow spade]

I miss 25% restore and 25% regen CF

[slow spade]

Works on any kill

[agile forge]

Maybe going mid top would be better for the stamina boost too actually

[slow spade]

Technically it combos with Born Leader too

But the toughness regen is so low

[agile forge]

Since I'm doing deadshot without any stamina regen talents besides that passive regeneration delay node

[slow spade]

Just unbinds the block button UwU

[final stag]

I thought it was guns and melee only until I went from 0 toughness to max

[slow spade]

The Emperor do be protecting

[agile forge]

Maybe I should take an axe with All or Nothing

[final stag]

Bombadier build be clutching my toughness now

[tiny summit]

I like how Vet basically has a grenadier keystone spread throughout the tree

Do grenades count as ranged kills to proc covering fire for teammates?

I cast bleed!

[final stag]

The grenadier build is hilarious

[odd sparrow]

tbf there was only 1 row of toughness regen talents back then, so they all had to be pretty strong

[final stag]

I cast fireball

[tiny summit]

Mids gaming

[final stag]

That feels wrong to me for an odd reason

[tiny summit]

Imma play these when I get back from my job trip and upload a run

Oof 2 infil charges and no tactical awareness is gonna feel like ass

[final stag]

It's gonna be a run for sure

How fatshark intended jfndnd

[tiny summit]

Or did they intend this?

[final stag]

Use shock trooper without a lasgun

[tiny summit]

Exe MF Plasma

Deadshot on plasma? Dead.
Shocktrooper on plasma? Dead.
Suppression Immunity on plasma? Dead.

[final stag]

You see that mf right there?
I don't want to anymore

[last parcel]

you smell that mf with the stank ass behind the wall? melt his lungs

[final stag]

I want you to make him meet his maker early

[junior needle]

I've earned almost $100 of premium currency in hd2 just by playing the game

Fatshark truly has one of the monetization systems of all time

[tiny summit]

Full price recolors thank you

[inland orchid]

i suggest glancing at Vermintide 2 if u wanna gain some hope for fatshark

[junior needle]

I have less than 100 hours in the game btw

[inland orchid]

free daily premium currency

[junior needle]

And they chose not to do that for darktide

[final stag]

Don't have a PS or PC to play helldivers sad times

[inland orchid]

because copy pastin the same shit aint gonna let the devs experiment

as much as i'd love to be drippy wiht no money spent

FS gotta eat somehow

[junior needle]

FS already eats, this is a buy to play game

They have 180+ employees

They are not a small company

[inland orchid]

so all those 180+ employees gotta split all the profits with their publishers before it even gets to them

ya, ima still buy my drip

[junior needle]

Fatshark is the publisher

[inland orchid]

theyre the devs and the publishers

[junior needle]

I mean, it's your money

[inland orchid]

of course

[tiny summit]

Well I would be more inclined to spend more money if Fatshark gave better skins for better prices and no full price recolors and kinda bad bundles w/o increasing the price of items

[final stag]

It is a predatory monetization

It's just the fucking shareholder

[junior needle]

But I don't think FS deserve to be rewarded for their poor performance with darktide and money grubbing monetization

[final stag]

Put money in the game and they get to put their grubby greedy fingers on the game

[junior needle]

I'm not giving them a single cent more until they show me they're worthwhile

[inland orchid]

to steal ur words tis ur money, i see the game worthwhile still somehow

[tiny summit]

Also rotating store w/o even knowing the item was a rerun or recolor of a previous item is bad.

[inland orchid]

if i stared at a wall's cracks/damage all day of course ima think the wall is shitty

[junior needle]

Just wait until you see the rats in it

[inland orchid]

Im looking forward to it, hell i might even BE those rats

[inland orchid]

the rat: Micheal dont leave me here!

[junior needle]

Should be noted that in a well maintained wall, there shouldn't be cracks or damage

If something isn't being done about it, it goes to show negligence

You want unpaid cosmetics? Only from a limited pool and you have to jump through hoops to get them.

Ah, fatshark.

[crude fiber]

Wish weapons skins would apply to all weapons. I dont feel inclined to buy any when it's for 1 weapon type

[shrewd sierra]

I wish there were more gold-bought cosmetics.

[winter grove]

There are a lot of skaven signs in game

[shrewd sierra]

And I wish they were actually unique not just recolors of penance/leveling gear.

[winter grove]

Who knows

Naybe space skaven are actually real

[winter grove]

I really want them to add the cover art cosmetics