#veteran-class

1 messages · Page 617 of 1

bitter turtle
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and for what, just to juice up the gun against carapace?

frank ether
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thats a fair trade-off you make in my opinion

bitter turtle
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suddenly "reliability for armorpen" is ok in this case

frank ether
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voc stun and toughness should be more than enough time you need to stand still and shoot a chaff or two to reach 10 stacks

bitter turtle
frank ether
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again you already have %10 rending permanent

bitter turtle
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i showed you the gun performance with only 10% rending on armor

frank ether
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you reach %20 if you just literally stand still for a second

bitter turtle
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waiting for surgical stacks is a dps loss in that case

frank ether
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lmao

bitter turtle
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and no, you dont hit 10 from standing still in a second off camo alone

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and imo

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at least

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15 is better than camo on most guns

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but that's another subject ig

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plus

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not taking focus target means u dont get the stamina node to juice more deadshot

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needed for rager/mauler/flamer

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and reaper ig

frank ether
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again you call surgical on a braced gun good but you have problems with a 20 mag gun that can two shot crushers because you had to stand still and ads bit to do it

bitter turtle
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no

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i have a problem with it bc it suffers in reliability against its main target if you juice it for crushers

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plus

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spamming shots for 2k dps is ok enough in a pinch

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which is the only time i start spamming shots into crusher anyway

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ideally im going to be meleeing those to begin with

frank ether
bitter turtle
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yes, humanoid elites

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specialists

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usually on v7 i take lion share of ranged elite kills

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kek

frank ether
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it really doesn't though?

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you have two methods to ramp up your bps

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3 if you consider just waiting for surgical

bitter turtle
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are you talking about MF and exec?

frank ether
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both guarantees non-crit one taps

bitter turtle
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exec gives up an extreme amount of utility elsewhere (voc or stealth)

tall torrent
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I’ll be honest playing MF with the intention of using it for breakpoints feels horrible

bitter turtle
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MF for bp is just shit

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and u still give up stamina

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even if you're playing like a literal god

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and keeping it above 10 constantly

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maybe im just skissue but no thanks

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ill take my guaranteed bp and live with 2k crusher dps on v7

frank ether
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oh no I might have to shoot the first gunner twice

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wouldn't be a problem if I had ran surgical agri revolver and sprinted up to them instead

bitter turtle
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i mean

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im playing revovler on melee builds

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so

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yes?

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im going to sprint up to things

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usually with voc or stealth

tall torrent
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I don’t agree with surgical mk14 revolver but at the same time surgical v7 really doesn’t hit crushers that hard

tame lodge
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I really got a 80 dmg, 66 mob, 56 pen, 80 rel, 80crit revolver just to get roulette, surgical and sprint

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for the meme

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FOR THE MEME

bitter turtle
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idk

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waiting for 3 stack is not "literally unplayable"

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even if u run crucian

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it doesnt really get an advantage until ur halfway done with the clip

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and if u really need to fan on surgical you still can, 60% crit still

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even with 0 stack

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if there is anything i want buffed on the gun tbh it is just a little more flak dmg? feels dumb u cant even 1 tap flak rager with +flak but w/e

tall torrent
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Low cleave feels bad

bitter turtle
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i dont think revolver should have cleave

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but maybe im too harsh

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idk

tall torrent
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Not even Helbore lvl cleave?

bitter turtle
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yes

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its super fast swap

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you should be expected to clear the chaff out of the way with melee

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before you shoot things

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but again maybe im too harsh idk

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i know im like in the minority of actually enjoying using agri volver

tall torrent
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Low cleave guns just don’t feel that good tbh

bitter turtle
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ig

tall torrent
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Not being able to shoot through teammates

bitter turtle
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i wouldnt be upset if it has hb cleave

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i just wouldnt be upset if it didnt either

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all i am really upset about the gun is that u have to run tag and tag a flak rager if you want to kill it in 1

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it should 1tap all humanoids

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not all humanoid except scab rager

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excluding maulers

terse idol
tall torrent
terse idol
bitter turtle
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if its just about temamates

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why not just make teammates not count as bodyblocking shots

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idk why its even a mechanic

terse idol
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Yeah

bitter turtle
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besides to make ppl rage at ogryns

terse idol
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It is a weird balance factor

tall torrent
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I also think veteran should have baseline suppression immunity

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Not have to take a talent for it

bitter turtle
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well

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i agree but in the sense that i'd like a few more talent points freed up still

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but if they did that in other ways im ok with determined existing as is

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not all builds need to be suppression immune in the first place

terse idol
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The issue being some guns just have... suppression immunity????

bitter turtle
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yeah

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that part is weird

terse idol
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The game won't tell you but welp

bitter turtle
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just randomly hb/plasma do

terse idol
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Yeah, hopefully they address that

bitter turtle
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hb i kinda get but why plasma lol

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i forgot

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there was one more i think

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but i dont remember

terse idol
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Lord forbid the Pgun gets suppressed and... misses monkaGIGA

bitter turtle
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maybe this is a super

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hot take

tall torrent
bitter turtle
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but if i redid the talent tree

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i'd buff a lot of things and free up points, but i'd also

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make is you have to choose between demo stockpile and tac awareness

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not be able to take both

tall torrent
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Helbore, used by stoic soldiers of Krieg

Laspistols, often issued to officers

Plasma guns, the fact that you have the balls to carry and reload one already

bitter turtle
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like maybe tac awareness on the voc/infil side
demo stockpile on the exec/voc side

terse idol
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Flatten talent tree, make it wider chadgryn

bitter turtle
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my reasoning being, tac awareness isnt really that synergistic with exec in a sense since you're supposed to keep refreshing it

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meanwhile grenades are the opposite of subtelty

terse idol
bitter turtle
tall torrent
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I also think veterans should just be suppression immune already

terse idol
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Might as well honestly

tall torrent
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“Cadia stands” mfs when their infantry lasguns get suppressed and they shoot less straight than the avg Khornate berserker

bitter turtle
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saving a pt somewhere would let me take infiltrate v7

terse idol
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The veteran, after being shot a million times prior forgetting they can get supressee

bitter turtle
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so removing determined would help KEKW_ogryn

terse idol
bitter turtle
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rn i have to abandon keystone for infil v7 😔

serene bough
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infiltrate nice

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innate suppression immunity would also be nice

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newer bigger guns would be nicer

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melta pls

bitter turtle
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santa fatshark pls

tall torrent
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Long-las pls

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I want smth in-between Helbore and plasma

serene bough
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if they do add a long las i hope it pierces multiple enemies like the enemy sniper does

frank ether
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thats the point of crucian

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It would be the only choice if it gave you an advantage lmao

tall torrent
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I think what he’s trying to say is that if you’re playing revolver in the first place you’re looking at 21+25+5=51% crit chance at a baseline that crucian adding incrementally small crit chance bonuses isn’t the biggest improvement

bitter turtle
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yes

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if you brace and just rapid fire

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with surgical you have minimum 10% on the first shot

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you need to go through 2 bullets before you're seeing a benefit over surgical

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because of how small crucian is

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w/ surgical the bullets are
61 - 51 - 51 - 51 - 51
w/ crucian its
51 - 57 - 63 - 69 - 75

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for the first 2 shots u actually are BETTER off with surgical even in its worst use case

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only starting from the 3rd shot (halfway done with the clip) are you seeing gains

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i mean obv if you start with half empty revolver then it tips in favor of crucian but you cant control agri volver reload as easily as zarona since its a full clip reload

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like dont get me wrong, if crucian was bigger numbers, i'd bev more in favor of it, but its so fucking tiny

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vs being able to guarantee 1 taps when you wait for literally 1 second? nah no thanks

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trickshooter in theory is cool and all but ive never been able to get that shit to stack past 2 reliably except on a BoN

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therefore surg

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unironically i think i'd take sustained fire over crucian if i refused to ever stack surg and only wanted to fan but idk if that helps with bp anywhere

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nor have i ever tried it

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ngl point blank tho 🤔

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has anyone done point blank agri

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i forgot this blessing even existed

tame lodge
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it procs with melee kills, with the gun

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?

bitter turtle
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ya

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20% crit after a melee kill

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3.5 seconds

tall torrent
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Point blank could be nice

bitter turtle
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sounds

tall torrent
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It’s only 2.5s tho iirc

bitter turtle
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oh is it?

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fug me am i blind

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2.5*

radiant chasm
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just go crucian

tall torrent
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If it was 3.5s I think it’s better for mk14 revolver

bitter turtle
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still that sounds like a million times better than crucian

radiant chasm
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and if you are firing that slow just use zarona

bitter turtle
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ok

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i know you didnt see the entire convo probably

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but yes

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i know

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its just a worse zarona

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i dont care

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zarona is op

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im only talking about what is best to run on agri in a vacuum for itself

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not "but what if you run zarona instead with the same setup and its 100x better"

serene bough
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thats a lot of words

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zarona does need nerf

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bolter should have uber penetration

bitter turtle
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legit though

tame lodge
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zarona, the gun that vets,zelis and psker run

bitter turtle
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im gonna make a point blank one

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that sounds pretty sick

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might like it even more than surg

serene bough
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which blessing is point blank

bitter turtle
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20% crit for 2.5 seconds after melee kill

serene bough
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isnt that with the special action

bitter turtle
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idk is it

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i literally forgot this blessing existed

serene bough
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ah okay

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maybe previous patch it was special action kill

bitter turtle
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yeah

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i wasnt sure since the icon lmao

serene bough
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i remember it being so laughably bad i never touched it

bitter turtle
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so what u said sounded very plausible

serene bough
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since you like the bad revolver how do i build this

image.png
bitter turtle
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change stamina to maniac

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and

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just try

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whatever you want

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in place of trickshooter

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i like surgical

serene bough
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thnx

bitter turtle
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like it has been so painfully discussed

serene bough
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i didnt read any of your previous conversation ill just take your word

bitter turtle
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well

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you can do crucian if you want to fan

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or point blank*

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disclaimer bc im only saying "wow that looks good" in theory KEKW_ogryn

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not having actually tried it

serene bough
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jokes on you i onyl have surgical t4

bitter turtle
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butr yeah i take maniac to 1tap dreg rager

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even +flak doesnt let you 1tap flak rager without tag keystone

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unarmored should be ok too tbh

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i think u can 1tap dreg gunners without a crit?

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idk how useful that is when you have 50% crit but hey

serene bough
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i got this thing from emp gift months ago

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i never tested anything with it

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so hopefully it isnt too bad

bitter turtle
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well

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i thinkim literally like the only person who likes it here

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so uh

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dont have much expectations

serene bough
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relatable experience

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i do like weaker and underused weapons more though

tall torrent
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Which ranged weapon page do I do next

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Alr finished Helbore, infantry lasgun & plasma

serene bough
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iags

bitter turtle
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rip

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point blank

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is completely trash

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its like u said

tall torrent
bitter turtle
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only procs on the special action bonk

elder fiber
bitter turtle
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thanks fs

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no wonder i forgot this blessing exist

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surgical it is then

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how the fuck

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do they expec tthis atk

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to kill anything

tacit zinc
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It's meant to stagger

bitter turtle
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i know

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but the blessing

elder fiber
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Imagine fatshark making a bad blessing

bitter turtle
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at least make it a guaranteed crit then

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for 2.5 seconds

elder fiber
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No

bitter turtle
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cause i dont think u are getting more than 2 or 3 kills even if you tried in a whole session

tall torrent
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IAGs are so basic

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Kinda hard to describe what they’re good & bad for

bitter turtle
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bad at carapce if you dont take onslaught i guess?

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and ciag kinda below avg at super long range?

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well no

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its pretty average if you consider all guns

tall torrent
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Onslaught isn’t very worth it for most weapons

bitter turtle
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its not

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but i was thinking

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wouldnt deadshot ciag pick it up

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since you want duck and dive + stam delay

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its just 1 more point

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and the differenc eon crusher is pretty massive

raw steppe
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Ya but the other option is to cut right side entirely

bitter turtle
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true

raw steppe
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And free up 4 points

frank ether
bitter turtle
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well if you didnt cut it ig

bitter turtle
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crucian doesnt even provide a benefit until bullet #3

raw steppe
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Yeah if you're taking dnd and the .25 delay might as well take onslaught

bitter turtle
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and i get that zarona is better

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genuinely, i do

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i just dont want to use zarona, i want to use agri to the best of its ability

frank ether
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you're slow firing a braced higher rof mark, its not about zarona being more juiced

bitter turtle
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no

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im saying if you rapid fire

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w/ surgical the bullets are
61 - 51 - 51 - 51 - 51
w/ crucian its
51 - 57 - 63 - 69 - 75

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so crucian doesnt even do anything beneficial until bullet #3

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and thats assuming i didnt hold for surg at all

frank ether
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lmao

serene bough
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whats your beef stranger staregryn

bitter turtle
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you also cant do the funny partial reloads on agri to manipulate crucian

tall torrent
tall torrent
serene bough
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i know im just joking around

bitter turtle
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i am so sad

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about point blank

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ngl

serene bough
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y

bitter turtle
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i thought i found some secret sauce

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but the sauce was rancid

serene bough
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sorry about your sauce

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only sad days are here to stay

tall torrent
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Maybe FS is cooking a major update to darktide

serene bough
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my gut is telling me next content drop is in april

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would like newer maps

bitter turtle
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but yeah

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about deadshot ciag

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do you not go right side for duck/dive + stam delay in the first place?

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tbh i dont deadshot ciag so idk

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i was just thinking onslaught is basically free if you do

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something like this

serene bough
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in general if you're gonna run deadshot you should take duck and dive

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but yeah id probably imagine onslaught works well on ciag

frank ether
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either that or focus mark node

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otherwise its unsustainable meat grinder build

bitter turtle
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i would figure both with how much it eat stamina

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but i play deadshotless so i wasnt sure

frank ether
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you can do with just one and just

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not magdump

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which is hard for iag gamers

bitter turtle
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very true KEKW_ogryn

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ig thats why i didnt like it

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iag/knife

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magdump the everything

frank ether
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I don't even run deadshot on my agri iag build

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Its on like exe mf

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thats enough gun juice

tall torrent
bitter turtle
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oh right

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should take both ideally shouldnt i

serene bough
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why noth both

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yeah

bitter turtle
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not sure what to drop though

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no

frank ether
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you could take both but it gets costly lol

bitter turtle
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dont say onslaught Sitgryn

frank ether
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unless its a voc build

tall torrent
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Taking both is costly

bitter turtle
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the whole point was to justify it 😢

tall torrent
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Period

frank ether
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if you went like exe-mf path at that point you already pay so much on tax nodes

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and travel

tall torrent
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Onslaught is very very very niche

serene bough
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does precision strikes matter much for ciag

tall torrent
frank ether
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It does

bitter turtle
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yeah but even if it didnt

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it matters for your melee

frank ether
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you have massive weakspot multipler for iags

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on all 3

serene bough
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then probably dump onslaught

bitter turtle
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nooo

frank ether
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onslaught is overrated tbh

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even on ciag yes

serene bough
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if im running anything with deadshot id rather have the two stam regen nodes over others

frank ether
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this is like a crazy take maybe but I'd rather take both flat rending nodes on a slower paced weapon

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if I'm so set on shooting carapace instead of krak or grenade

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yes mf is a dogwater keystone

bitter turtle
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well clearly

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consdiering u take double rending on v7 to shoot carapace

frank ether
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yes the rending should probably stack with mf stacks instead of being flat value above 10

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but if you can just afford to sit on your ass and fire a few shots

bitter turtle
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tbh i actually tried it myself

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that way of building v7

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i just didnt like the inconsistency relying on mf for bp

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was funny to 2/3 shot crusher tho

frank ether
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but I refuse to play voc atm because its broken

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the fire immunity thing

bitter turtle
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all my builds already are infil

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at this point

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except v7

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there's not enough pts to go infil

frank ether
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well infil v7 is... tough

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I can't make carapace work on that

bitter turtle
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straight up you have to drop keystone

frank ether
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going infil to mf is just

bitter turtle
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well

frank ether
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tax after tax

bitter turtle
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i dont mf like i said

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but you cant even take focus

serene bough
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my most prefered build does that

bitter turtle
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well, you can actually take base focus, but no stam

serene bough
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infil to mf

bitter turtle
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so that's literally defeating the whole purpose of taking it

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for v7

frank ether
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me neither, but I'll be honest mf is a lot easier to manage than deadshot for some guns

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and not even on a rate of fire kind of level

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just more of a mobility thing

serene bough
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there is no worse feeling in the world when you need to push a pox burster and you realize you dumped all your stamina into deadshot

bitter turtle
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honestly

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that is not a problem for v7

frank ether
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like its a dumb stupid design and you just get free damage for standing still its conceptually stupid

bitter turtle
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special action

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unironically

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the rifle butt hit

agile forge
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MF isn't so hard to stack hardway with CIAG

frank ether
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but if I'm waiting for surgical stacks I can also wait for mf stacks at the same time

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its not difficult

serene bough
frank ether
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its just bad design

bitter turtle
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i dont really wait for surgical on anything except both revolvers

agile forge
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And you can move after hitting a head, or crouch dodge

bitter turtle
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thats why i dont want to build around crit or conditional for gunners on v7

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just rapid headshot them in a row

frank ether
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I thought at first mf was like giga difficult to use then I realized that its not difficult, I just have to dumb my brain a lot to get value out of that

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aka no ads strafing

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you just ads and sit there like a malice bot

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and you are rewarded with bps and reload speed

agile forge
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It has a 3s grace period if you kill somebody with headshot

bitter turtle
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i only mf on laspis now

frank ether
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3s isn't a lot in practice

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for a slower moving weapon

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for something like laspis you can keep running and gunning

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or even iags tbh

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their mobility is good

bitter turtle
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well i mean, that is why i dont want to mf on v7 for conditional bp

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its like u said

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you have to stand there like a malice bot half the time

frank ether
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vraks mobility is not great so thats why I take 10 stacks over 15

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but it also doesnt need 15 stacks

bitter turtle
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i usually go 15 if i do mf

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its not about needing 15

frank ether
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thats better on faster weapons imo

bitter turtle
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its about having more of a cushion when the stacks start dropping

frank ether
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you can go 15 on v7 but its just pain

bitter turtle
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but ig camo does the same

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if you stand still a lot

frank ether
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I also go 10 on bolter aswell

bitter turtle
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just from my experience, i find that camo only really helped in situations i didnt need it, where i can stand still and turret bc its relatively calm

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and when shtf i'd much rather have had 15 stack

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to have an extra 5 stack worth of time to move around

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but in general idk i didnt like mf on v7 KEKW_ogryn

frank ether
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the movement thing just needs to go

bitter turtle
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if i could pick

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any keystone

frank ether
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its not bad on v7

bitter turtle
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id actually want wep specialist for v7

frank ether
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it scales really well

bitter turtle
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but way too many points

frank ether
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number wise you hit all the nice bps

bitter turtle
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you can hit them without it though

frank ether
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its just dumb playstyle

bitter turtle
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i hit every 1s bp except dreg rager

frank ether
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I hit that too

bitter turtle
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well

frank ether
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but need a crit for that

bitter turtle
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yeah but

frank ether
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or exe probably

bitter turtle
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conditional

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dependent on mf/ability

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i dont really like that

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esp on gunners

frank ether
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thats not entirely fair

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you use those to reach new bps that you normally don't

bitter turtle
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but thats what i mean

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you only reach 1 new bp

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dreg rager

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i dont think u can 1s maulers

tall torrent
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As a Helbore enjoyer I can’t really say much abt these v7 breakpoints KEKW_ogryn

bitter turtle
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well

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u also reach crusher bps

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but again, i dont think thats very important

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for a v7 to worry about

frank ether
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you dont have to 1s mauler to have the playstyle be viable

bitter turtle
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i mean more

frank ether
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its already giga strong that it can 2s them and crushers

bitter turtle
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what are you actually gaining by bulding MF

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cause non MF can already 1tap everything except mauler/dreg rager

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and ogryns

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maybe reaper 3 tap -> 2 tap? probably

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idk it doesnt seem worth the loss in consistency

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also you lose stam from focus target

frank ether
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don't get what you're getting at its pretty consistent

bitter turtle
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pretty consistent is not 100% still i would think

frank ether
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the only real bottleneck is your ability to actually hit headshots to get DA procs with

bitter turtle
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also i dont value rager 1tap that much tbh

frank ether
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which is also the challenge with mf aside from movement woes

bitter turtle
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maybe im skissue but headshotting them reliably is a crapshoot sometimes

frank ether
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in that case bps stop mattering either way if you're gonna open with a chest shot either to stun an enemy or because you missed or whatever

bitter turtle
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gunner is super easy since they stand still, so i want to make sure its always 1 bullet -> kill

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nah i dont mean that

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ur always going to miss

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just that i value gunner bp more than rager on v7

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not that the rager one is meaningless bc you'll never hs or something

frank ether
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you always get gunner bps fine

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precisely because they stand still

bitter turtle
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ok let me

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use your gun on them

frank ether
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ok so

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here is the thing

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I think this is like a miscommunication

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so I'll start over

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you only need like 1-2 stacks to hit those bps

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which you already tend to get while in the process of aiming your gun, moving your cross, building surgical and mf stacks

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by the time you see gunner > stop > ads > shoot you already hit the bps

bitter turtle
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you dont need to stop and hold for surg

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because its a critless bp

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i literally have shot them on the move

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hipfiring even

#

in situations i cannot ads

#

bc i hav ea horde coming up behind me on my ass in close proximity

#

but deleting all the elite/special is my prio

#

so my team doesnt do something dumb

#

im nots aying its impossible to hit bp without stack

#

im just saying why

#

u dont even get anything out of it besides better crusher dps?

#

and a dreg rager 1tap hs on crits

#

only dreg btw, flak is fine on my setup

frank ether
bitter turtle
#

the rending only matters for crusher

#

reload speed, yeah i guess, but my build actually has enough spare pts to grab volley adept

#

bc it doesnt need to take extra steps

#

as for boss dps, i think focus target will add more boss dps than MF

#

well, in the context of a team but yeah

#

bodyshot is a fair point ig

#

im not sure if it adds enough to hit meaningful bp though

#

v7 bodyshots are atrocious

#

maybe bodyshot dreg gunner crit bp

#

also idk if u forgot

#

the convo started bc you said its better to hold surg stacks instead of rapid shooting for crusher

#

actually i still get higher dps w/ your setup spamming shot KEKW_ogryn

#

though admittedly 4 shot instead of 2

#

though admittedly less consistent if u really can 2tap

#

i forgot to put carapace on there too

#

this is with cara now

ivory trail
#

Your mod is too far off I have no idea what gun is that.

bitter turtle
#

uh

#

that is an unmodded model

#

the loadout mod spits out an unmodded gun

#

its the v7

#

it has that goofy muzzle

#

in the unmodded state

serene bough
bitter turtle
#

oh

#

that is also v7 KEKW_ogryn

frank ether
#

hello vet chat, do you see the reaper in this picture

reaper.png
serene bough
#

no

frank ether
#

neither did I and kept wondering why my guns not killing the shotgunners

#

I'll just upload the clip KEKW_ogryn

tame lodge
#

Big Gun learned camo

frank ether
#

I'm probably gonna just

#

potato my graphics again

#

this time there are two of them KEKW_ogryn

reaper2.png
tall torrent
#

Underline means most valuable blessing

bitter turtle
#

you could mention crouching helps recoil too

tall torrent
#

Will do

tall torrent
# bitter turtle you could mention crouching helps recoil too

However, their practical effectiveness at range is mostly held back by the randomness in their recoil, which you can alleviate from using Executioner’s Stance or by crouching. They also have very noticeable recoil penalties when moving so do be wary of your positioning.

bitter turtle
#

yeah

#

sounds good

tall torrent
#

Gonna put Deadshot in there too actually

#

since some people swear by it

Screenshot_2024-03-04_212205.png
frank ether
# tall torrent

I'd also rate agri as great but admittedly thats just my personal taste

#

I agree it functions exactly like a budget battle rifle

#

imo completely superior to agri HH

bitter turtle
#

well

#

agri HH is pretty bad

#

i dont think its fair to call graia the "worst" of the 3 though

#

if you elevate agri to great alongside ciag

frank ether
#

on paper math its not bad

bitter turtle
#

ya

#

tis not bad on paper

frank ether
#

on practical shooting agri iag is just the superior ''battle rifle''

bitter turtle
#

the recoil really fucks it though

frank ether
#

because it has very comfy recoil

bitter turtle
#

agri HH problem isnt the numbers, just hitting them

frank ether
#

the only real problem I have with agriag is well.. misalignment if you're magdumping

#

the center of aim completely leaves the ironsights lmao

tall torrent
bitter turtle
#

nah

#

i agree with you

#

its actually my favorite

#

i was just saying if you want to move agriag up to great

#

i think its unfair to graia to be listed as the "worst" of the 3

tall torrent
#

I am biased and gave HB1 & HB2 great ratings

frank ether
#

I don't think its much of a competition

tall torrent
frank ether
#

but I think agriag is a great gun

#

I'd just say that

bitter turtle
#

they deserve to be lower now that bayo nerf

#

jk

tall torrent
#

I prob should drop the 2 helbores to good tho

#

lemme do that

#

so far:

HB1 good
HB2 good
HB3 niche

MG1a good
MG4 decent
MG12 decent

Plasma great

Agrip1 good
Column5 great
Graia8 good

bitter turtle
#

thumbsup_ogryn looks good to me

timid otter
#

I dont even think weapons should be rated

#

I don’t think its possible to objectively gauge the value of a weapon expect the outliers.

#

Mostly because people tend to find exploits or tricks to make a weapon better then it first appears.

#

Its simply not possible for one player to know how good every weapon actually is in its most optimal usage.

tall torrent
#

Most ranged weapons have the “good” rating

#

Melee weapons diversify a bit more

bitter turtle
#

If you feel like a weapon has some unexplored niche

frank ether
bitter turtle
#

That would elevate it

frank ether
#

also your skill determines it for a lot of them

bitter turtle
#

Maybe you ought to have a difficulty raring too

tall torrent
#

I do value input from u guys

bitter turtle
#

Idk if it's too subjective

tall torrent
frank ether
#

I think that may be too large of a rabbit hole to go down into

bitter turtle
#

Yeah it might

tall torrent
#

I just gauge based on HiSTG damnation performance tbh

frank ether
#

difficulty is subjective in the end and consoles also complicate things

bitter turtle
#

I only say it cause I do remember ppl asking for a good beginner weapon

#

It is really subjective though

tall torrent
#

If it works in auric damn HiSTG it’s going to work in malice

timid otter
#

I think best is mostly to look for outliers

#

Ex plasma, colomnus, revolver are clear outliers.

bitter turtle
tall torrent
#

As in difficult to use?

bitter turtle
#

I meant like how easy is it to play

frank ether
#

like for example some people find certain ironsights really terrible while some people just mod a reflex sight on them

bitter turtle
#

Ya

frank ether
#

how are you gonna make a difficulty based rating accounting for all the different tricks people do to make their life easier

bitter turtle
#

Ya that's fair, maybe it's not a good idea

frank ether
#

Its just really hard

bitter turtle
#

I know some people despise hb sights and some are ok

frank ether
#

like look at zealot chat

tall torrent
#

I do mention some weapons having quirks that are hard to get past

frank ether
#

how many people completely potato their graphics there

tall torrent
#

Like Helbore Iron sights

frank ether
#

which is a MASSIVE advantage to visibility/input lag

timid otter
frank ether
#

I respect it lol

tall torrent
bitter turtle
#

It looks polygonal

#

It probably would

timid otter
#

Ps2 game

tall torrent
#

It looks like some pre-alpha build

frank ether
bitter turtle
#

I get fps drops sometimes on a bad day

tall torrent
#

Have u seen what the pox hound looks like with -1 graphics detail

bitter turtle
#

I think the game hogs cpu real bad

frank ether
#

putting a lower load on your gpu results directly in lower overhead

bitter turtle
#

That being said

frank ether
#

How much it matters again depends on setup

bitter turtle
#

I wouldn't go that far for this game

#

I play it just for fun

#

I wanna enjoy the environments lol

frank ether
#

so making a difficulty rating is difficult cause the guy with a GTX 2060 is gonna want that potato settings a lot more than the guy on a 4090

tall torrent
#

I would have believed you if you told me this was a pox hog instead of a pox hound

Warhammer_40000_Darktide_Screenshot_2024.01.02_-_21.37.28.12.png
frank ether
#

lmao

#

blame fatshark for dogshit optimization tbh

tiny summit
#

Plague pinky

timid otter
#

Its too based on the extra fps from dlss

tall torrent
#

-1 graphics detail makes the game look really pre-alpha and not in a great way

timid otter
#

40 cards work way better in darktide then earlier series

frank ether
#

FSR implementation to this day is still broken btw

#

and people are unironically excited for FSR3

#

like have you seen FSR2? Its broken

#

Its bugged

tall torrent
frank ether
#

hello? lmao

tall torrent
#

I need native frame Gen support

#

FSR3 frame Gen is insane

frank ether
#

people who haven't even tried FSR2 being so excited for its framegen part

timid otter
#

Ive tried darktide with differnent gpus

tall torrent
frank ether
tall torrent
#

Worst case scenario I continue to use DLSS with FSR3 frame gen mod and keep that UI ghosting effect

#

Which ironically makes the game somehow more immersive

#

At least for me

#

The ui emp effect is kinda cool from a lore perspective

frank ether
#

I don't think FSR3 is good for a game of this type

#

where its mainly about precise input timings

#

but I think the same for DLSS3

#

more fps = better is a bit of a trap a lot of people fall into

tall torrent
frank ether
#

the timing has to be precise for a lot of things

#

mostly because of the ping disadvantage

tall torrent
#

I do hope fsr3 support comes soon tho so at least I get more options

frank ether
#

dodging something like a BoN grab is not going to get easier when you enable framegen, it will actually become harder.

#

but it will also smooth out microstutters so there is that

frank ether
tall torrent
#

Stutters were my main issue

frank ether
#

but when that happens Idk

tall torrent
#

60fps with stutters is just not a great experience

frank ether
#

cos FS has been radio silence

#

I get like 100-120

#

still not great

#

and certain weapons just have fucked input in general regardless of your pc performance

tall torrent
#

But with frame gen I can play 90 decently well

#

And I’m on a laptop

#

It is what it is

frank ether
#

It will be easier on your eyes but not on your hands if that makes any sense

#

thats about the best way I could summerize framegen lol

tall torrent
#

Yea ik

frank ether
#

so temper expectations

tall torrent
#

Haven’t rly had input issues personally at least

timid otter
#

Also ive been digging into laptops recently

frank ether
#

the best thing fatshark could do for you would be to actually optimize the game to run smoothly

timid otter
#

The fans can get clogged with dust inside them

tall torrent
timid otter
#

They might need to be completely taken out of the case

tall torrent
#

Dust kills laptops so hard it’s incredible

timid otter
#

Not just cleaning them from the outside

tall torrent
#

Fortunately my laptop is not so hard to clean

tall torrent
#

Lenovo legion is at least pretty easy for that

frank ether
#

laptop gaming is jank

#

I'm happy I don't have to suffer that ever again

tall torrent
#

Needed a mobile workstation but still wanted to play games

#

It is what it is

frank ether
#

rip

timid otter
#

Theres always MITX cases if you can get monitors to wherever you need to be

#

Even monitors however can be portable.

tall torrent
#

Not rly that it’s just that I need to move it a lot and I don’t want to carry extra weight

#

A 15.6” laptop is much handier

#

Also means I don’t have to play on very high resolution and it still looks fine

frank ether
#

the DLSS/FSR stuff just doesnt work on lower resolutions unfortunately

#

same with TAA

junior needle
#

Gaming laptops are only technically portable, they still dont really like to be moved

tall torrent
#

It still had pretty noticeable performance gains for me

frank ether
#

I like how like crushing majority of gaming market is still on 1080P or even less yet the industry is targeting 1440P/4K

#

I'd rather not play than having to turn on an upscaler at 1080P personally

#

maybe it looks better on a 15'' laptop monitor

tall torrent
frank ether
#

what even is your setup

#

I'm scared to hear your answer .d

tall torrent
#

RTX3060
AMD Ryzen 7 5800H

rigid pilot
#

Veteranomicon in the works?

tall torrent
frank ether
#

I mean how bad can a 3060 be

#

surely you can run it at 1080P

rigid pilot
#

It's a laptop 3060

#

I assume?

frank ether
#

yep

rigid pilot
#

Thermals might be sus

tall torrent
frank ether
#

well in that case you should consider potato graphics

#

well maybe not -1

tall torrent
frank ether
#

how does your game look, could you send some screenshots sometime?

timid otter
#

I wonder actually what gives fans the most effect in placement

tall torrent
frank ether
#

I don't really need it but I was hoping for a compromise between absolute potato and something less ugly

tall torrent
frank ether
tall torrent
#

And this is probably tuned with the most ungodly amalgamation of performance upscalers you’ve ever seen

#

Turn on Nvidia image scaling in Nvidia control panel, this enables DT Fullscreen mode to have 2 extra 16:9 aspect ratio resolutions between 720p and 1080p, being 1477x831 and 1632x919

I use 1477x831, NIS 50% sharpening, in-game sharpening on, DLSS performance and 0 graphics detail in config on top of FSR3 frame gen mod

frank ether
#

sheesh

#

I'll never give shit to my amd gpu again lmao

tall torrent
#

And I can run this at fluid 90fps with barely >74 Celsius in even the most graphically intensive maps

#

Before I did this I had horrendously bad performance at smelter complex final gate holdout

rigid pilot
#

I mean you could just undervolt your gpu

frank ether
#

I'm getting high frames but the visibility is awful which is my main issue

rigid pilot
#

And that would be more stress-free than trying to minmax all these settings

frank ether
#

I'm running 1080P native without anti-aliasing

#

well without TAA

tall torrent
frank ether
#

reason number 3498535 I dislike gaming laptops

#

tbh laptop market really needs something fresh

tall torrent
#

I’ll prob switch in a few years when I have settled down

frank ether
#

I feel like a lot of its jank comes from not them being compact

#

but the manufacturer brands

#

being asshats

#

like portable computers can be good

#

look at steam deck

#

they let you do whatever

tall torrent
#

Lenovo is one of the better ones in that market tbf

frank ether
#

still asshats

#

but probably a lot better than msi/asus

rigid pilot
#

If anything is an ultra thin it's probably ultra shite KEKW_ogryn

timid otter
#

Laptops are also trying to pack alot in one device ex (2 speakers, microphone, camera, keyboard, touchpad, fans, ram, gpu, cpu, power supply, batteries, motherboard)

#

6 of these components are normally not found in pcs

#

Oh right also the monitor

tall torrent
#

I think even though my Upscaling stuff is a bit absurd I do get pretty good performance and good visuals that I never “not be able to see enemies”

#

The only issue is that if I try to stream while playing at 90fps then the GPU temperature goes bonkers

sharp ember
#

there ain't no way call of duty is getting a kasrkin fit

MWIII-S2R-ANNOUNCEMENT-024-1024x576.png
#

call of duty going down the fortnite-style crossover skin path is wild

sharp trail
#

thank you fatshark

tall torrent
frank ether
#

also all the ''GW doesn't let fatshark have nice things'' people are very quiet rn

#

now its only a year or two before warhammer gets a fortnite crossover lol

vocal cipher
#

honestly fortnite getting bolters or ripper guns would be neat

tall torrent
#

I’m at least kinda happy that cod decided to not put full Astartes armor for operator skins because of their size in respect to the lore

sharp ember
#

scout marines is a good touch

tall torrent
#

They even made a specific limited time game mode for these space marines

#

Not a bad effort

junior needle
#

"This isn't cod, it doesn't fit with the universe"

#

Meanwhile in literally cod with weapon customizations

serene bough
#

kasrkins in cod before darktide

#

lololololol

frank ether
winter grove
frank ether
#

I'll laugh a lot if cover art cosmetics end up behind a paywall

dapper vessel
tall torrent
#

But if the next content updates are as major as FS’s track record indicates, we might get them as new penance gear

winter grove
#

Just imagine the amount of veteran players rocking the cover art helmet

tall torrent
#

It’s peak

winter grove
#

It's looks so cool why didn't we get them from the start

#

Apparently the cover art armor even rocks some specific regiment from what I've seen

#

73-7 for whatever that means

tall torrent
frank ether
tall torrent
frank ether
#

I was about to say something but I don't want to demoralize you knowing you put a lot of effort into it

tall torrent
#

I made it in that specific way so it’s easy for me to add & change things

frank ether
#

about %90 of the people who would really appreciate it are already gone

tall torrent
#

I totally did not make it with the general community in mind lmao

frank ether
#

Its not about your work but moreso the game losing pop really fast

tall torrent
#

And it’s not that much work tbh

#

I finished the talent pages in 2 days

#

Melee weapon pages only took longer cuz I had some irl stuff and actually had to figure out what some of those weapons’ movesets are

#

Ranged weapons don’t have that moveset aspect to them so they’re much faster

#

And most ranged weapon pages have blessings, perks and stuff done

#

Just need to add descriptive texts on how they’re meant to be used & what their strengths and weaknesses are

frank ether
#

ranged weapons just boil down to dps and pen right now

#

rather sad

tall torrent
#

I’m way too lazy to even consider going into stat roll % for breakpoints

#

The most I’ll do is which important breakpoints do u care about for a few weapons

jaunty sphinx
#

Pretty defeatist mindset to give to someone who's just. Trying to share their build.

tall torrent
#

like this

Screenshot_2024-03-04_231431.png
frank ether
#

just stating important stats and dump stats is good enough imo

#

even though breakpoints are very useful info

tall torrent
#

I think the plasma gun page is good enough and covers everything u need to know abt it

frank ether
#

Its like... once you know you're missing out on a specific bp it just gives you that feeling you're missing out till you get a better roll

#

I despise this crafting system

frank ether
#

this format is good its short and straight to the point

tall torrent
#

I’ve more or less figured out how to use concise language over the years

frank ether
#

you don't do the thing where I have to read an entire opinionated paragraph to dissect useful information out of it

#

which is welcome in the right context dont get me wrong

#

you separate them though, which is good

tall torrent
#

The only really opinionated thing I have in this document is the (rating) stuff I put

frank ether
#

yea and even that will make some people salty as is the case with any opinion lmao

#

but I think its fine

tall torrent
#

Even that rating I try to be as objective as possible

frank ether
#

its fine

viscid vessel
fervent quiver
#

Got a really special thing to ask

#

What is the best combat axe to grab

tall torrent
bronze umbra
fervent quiver
#

knew it, but holy shit what is the purpose

winter grove
tall torrent
#

not even joking, it is good against literally everything

fervent quiver
#

wait I'm sorry, it isn't a meme?

tall torrent
#

u have respectable carapace dmg and boss dmg

#

u murder bruisers 4 at a time

bronze umbra
#

heretical lies
mk 4 chainaxe will forever be more gigachad

tall torrent
#

u can reliably stagger ragers out of their combos

tall torrent
fervent quiver
#

I also need a good tac axe

#

to complete my collection of melee weapons

radiant chasm
#

taxes are hard to make good

tall torrent
#

it's just very unfortunate that rashad is also one of the hardest weapons to roll for

radiant chasm
#

the new BM change was a net gain for every weaopn besides tax axes

#

and i do recomnend mk12 chaxe over mk4 chaxe at least on vet

#

easier to use, faster, and you don't really need the extra oomph unless you are going deep melee talents

fervent quiver
radiant chasm
#

combat axes are great, the achlys is an ugly step sister but rashad and antax are staples

tall torrent
#

antax trades dmg & atk speed for a safer moveset

radiant chasm
#

antax is like, 8% slower

#

the damage is the same

tall torrent
#

u need more melee dmg investment to juice its breakpoints

tall torrent
#

it's a bit lower

#

because no finesse modifier

radiant chasm
#

it doesn't have lower damage, rashad vs antax

#

oh yes, the finesse mod

#

it's -14% attack speed and i can't find a source on the antax's base finesse

tall torrent
#

pretty sure antax can't get 2 overhead bulwark and has to mix in a poke to keep it staggered

#

and antax is harder to build for bruiser BP which combat axes care a lot abt

radiant chasm
#

but otherwise it is perfectly adequate simply cause combat axes are so strong

tall torrent
#

yea it's good enough for most cases

#

the safer moveset can be beneficial

radiant chasm
#

not really? I think if you get a BM caxe, and haven't min maxed/gone for crafting yet, antax would be completely fine

tall torrent
#

it's not a dealbreaker if u just don't care abt bruiser bps but I'd say that's one of combat axes' most important bps

radiant chasm
#

also, i always felt rashad had the safer moveset with a stagger option on push attack and special action

tall torrent
#

antax push atk has same stagger I believe

radiant chasm
#

i'd say it would just be as easy to hit with the BM+HT damage

#

antax push is a cleaving attack

#

and does not bonk off ragers, or at least not as hard as rashad does

tall torrent
#

oh didn't quite notice

#

maybe need to change that in document

radiant chasm
#

in fact, antax push is the only way to get considerable cleave on a combat axe before BM

winter grove
tall torrent
#

I think antax push atk + L still staggers ragers tho?

radiant chasm
winter grove
frank ether
#

less effort than power sword

fervent quiver
#

aight, what's the good tac axe then

tall torrent
#

don't think too hard abt tac axes, they're playable but generally outclassed rn

radiant chasm
frank ether
#

none of the tac axes are good

#

they are whatever as ferret said

tall torrent
#

they don't have particularly great movesets and the dmg u do is pretty low

radiant chasm
#

mk4, mk7, mk2, is the order i hear them being played

#

basically, the BM change that ended up being a net positive for caxe and heavysword for example

#

made the blessing mostly worthless for taxe

frank ether
#

Anything with BM would be somewhat viable

radiant chasm
#

the cleave buff to 3 targets most people are going headtaker+decimator

#

and just double down on power

tall torrent
#

like, I'm not exaggerating this but
tac axe crit heavy atk often has less dmg than rashad non-crit light atk

frank ether
#

so tac axe is viable in that context but not great

radiant chasm
#

taxes rarely have low angle/horizontal attacks

#

and they struggle to hit the oneshot breakpoint

#

while caxes and heavy swords can kill 4 elites in one swing taxe will never do that

frank ether
#

its still a viable weapon

radiant chasm
#

yes, but not with BM

frank ether
#

I don't think you understand the context of what viable means there

radiant chasm
#

HT+decimator, double down on power gains

tall torrent
#

if u had to get one

#

BM/headtaker/shred

#

shred is fine

frank ether
#

huh, I wouldn't touch it without BM

#

zealot can make some shred memes I guess

radiant chasm
#

I don't think shred is worthwhile even with taxes good crit damage ratios, there are simply better shred options like dclaw,chsword

radiant chasm
frank ether
#

shred is just not that hot for vet in general

tall torrent
radiant chasm
#

but as an expert on bad weapons

frank ether
#

I wanted to make like an exploit weakness setup for d.claw

radiant chasm
#

like the old mk4 chaxe

frank ether
#

I did not like it

radiant chasm
#

when all else fails, stack up power

tall torrent
#

unfortunately a martyrdom 7 wound rashad zealot still out damages u easily

frank ether
#

chaxe feels pretty good rn though

#

granted you still stack power on it

tall torrent
#

headtaker + slaughterer chainaxe is neat

frank ether
#

but at least I enjoy it now as a weapon

#

has a lot more going for it than d.claw or chsword for my enjoyment factor

tall torrent
#

it's still a specialty weapon but it's not all eggs in 1 basket anymore

radiant chasm
#

yea, i'm still kinda mad they left mk4 chaxe in such an antifun state and just released mk12

#

it's not a speciality on zealot, mk4 is just a massive statchecker, i'd say up there below crusher

tall torrent
#

for vet it's specialty

radiant chasm
#

yee, mk12 is just better for vet

tall torrent
#

for zealot ik u can do some hilarious things with it

radiant chasm
#

faster, easier to use, and does everything you need

frank ether
#

zealot just makes it work a lot easier

tall torrent
#

5 stack martyrdom fixes most problems in general tho

radiant chasm
#

couldn't imagine doing the mk4 heavy spam without attack speed

frank ether
#

also a lot of the mobility woes you get to ignore on zealot with fury spam

#

on vet my pinky hurts from the amount of crouch slides I do lmao

radiant chasm
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dense pack of ragers, maulers, even crushers?

tall torrent
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getting +50% atk speed with +65% dmg from talent tree alone really can fix any melee weapon as it turns out

empty plover
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When I last played I really enjoyed chaxe + brauto on vet (hello plush btw). Was a nice well rounded setup. Did they change the weapon a lot?

radiant chasm
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just take double power+ punishement talent mk4 chaxe and you beat everything to death and they can't move

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mk4 is better than it was but you have a new mark option with the mk12

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and that generally fits vet way better for what vet uses melee for

frank ether
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they reworked it

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its a lot cleaner now

radiant chasm
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not really a rework, you can just dodge out of rev'd attacks for a stamina cost

empty plover
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I remember it had the same problems of the evis, getting stuck on enemies

frank ether
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the way you build is the same though you get headtaker+slaughterer

radiant chasm
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lights are bait

empty plover
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Heavies on chaxe were always good

frank ether
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the sticky revs on the mk4 are for single target and stagger really

radiant chasm
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that is more of a weapon design issue, but you only use mk4 lights for single target when you don't need stagger

frank ether
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you can like

radiant chasm
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otherwise, rev'd heavies for the guaranteed stagger or just unactivated heavy spam and use your axe like a club

tall torrent
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Headtaker + slaughterer
take atk speed prob
go weapon specialist

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that's how I'd go with CHX

radiant chasm
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i'm tellin you tho

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mk12 chaxe

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is way easier to use, even if it lacks some of the stuff you can do with mk4 on zealot (IE with max stacks HT,slaught, and punishment the mk12 lights don't stagger ragers, while mk4 heavies do)

frank ether
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mk12 has a funny push attack

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I like it

tall torrent
frank ether
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deffo easier to just get some atk speed

midnight totem
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I knew that mission would have been a loss

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should've fucking left earlier

tall torrent