veteran-class

[raw steppe]

if i miss a week

or if i dont do my dailies

god damn

modern mmos are so trash lmao

[languid estuary]

that's pretty obviously not what i said but if you want to put words in my mouth be my guest

[frank ether]

thats... pretty much what you're bringing it into dude

[bitter turtle]

idk a lot of people play female characters for non-nefarious or erp reasons

[frank ether]

Its probably true there are bad apples in these sorts of games but saying your average mmo player makes a character to ERP with is a pretty ??? tier take

[raw steppe]

goddamn thinking about it makes me mad

[languid estuary]

it's pretty obvious hyperbole that you chose to take at face value so you could pick a fight; obviously not every person playing a female human in gw2 is using the game to ERP but gw2 has a unique problem with nsfw degeneracy and always has because all of the wow communities that got banned or pushed out of the game went to gw2

[raw steppe]

is bdo also the game korean dogshit

just like the other ones

[bitter turtle]

bdo is one of those

pvp focused ones

i never played it bc of that

[raw steppe]

pvp in mmos

[frank ether]

I'm not picking a fight with you dude, you're taking the discussion to a weird place

[bitter turtle]

well

[raw steppe]

i've never played a mmo where the pvp wasn't dogshit

lmao

[languid estuary]

wildstar

had great pvp

[bitter turtle]

its basically coming off the stuff like gvg shit in RO

[raw steppe]

wasnt that game doa tho

[bitter turtle]

war of emperium and shit

[languid estuary]

yeah

[bitter turtle]

i think that's the idea/legacy of these setups

[languid estuary]

it's funny because

if wildstar came out now everyone would be sucking it off

[raw steppe]

the problem with these MMOs

[bitter turtle]

i doubt it

[frank ether]

lol no

[tired hornet]

My vet is female because I liked the voice better.

[raw steppe]

is that they try to cater to a "hardcore" fanbase

[bitter turtle]

wildstar didnt understand its own audience

[frank ether]

it died for a reason

[bitter turtle]

ppl sucked it off befor eit released too

[raw steppe]

but ppl keeping games alive

are the casual fanbase

not the hardcore fanbase lmao

[bitter turtle]

but most people are in fact not good at games

[frank ether]

^

[bitter turtle]

and i dont mean that as a knock against them

but xiv

with "easy" raiding

[raw steppe]

it's why WoW and GW is so popular

and ff as well

[frank ether]

gw2 also struggles to understand this with certain content

[bitter turtle]

is still like 1% of the pop actually raids

[raw steppe]

cuz their casual fanbase

literally plays for fun

instead of to tryhard

[bitter turtle]

imagine if u made that the entire poitn of the game

of course it dies

[raw steppe]

it's also why

[languid estuary]

wildstar died because they had no content on release despite promising that they did, in fact, have content at release, and once everyone got done grinding and realized there was no endgame the game got lambasted; it's literally what all of the articles from the time were about

[raw steppe]

maplestory 2

completely died

[languid estuary]

there was nothing to do but pvp and housing

[raw steppe]

in like 3 months

LOL

[languid estuary]

for months

[raw steppe]

cuz they tried to focus on endgame raids

and nobody who actually wanted to play maplestory

[frank ether]

wasnt wildstar the game with heavy focus on endgame raids

[raw steppe]

wanted to sweat in endgame

yes

[frank ether]

and no one gave a shit about their raids?

[raw steppe]

that's why it died imo

[frank ether]

so it died

lmao

[raw steppe]

they didn't capture the casual player base

required for a MMO to survive

[frank ether]

raids take a lot of time to design and for the most part only a small minority will play them

even less if you dont include some sort of easy mode for casuals

[bitter turtle]

xiv had to include an easy mode for the story battles hwere u literally can press 1 button to win

[raw steppe]

tbh I think a modern MMO could survive without raiding

[bitter turtle]

bc some ppl are just that bad

[raw steppe]

i mean isn't that what habbohotel or club penguin is

[bitter turtle]

yes

it could

[raw steppe]

a MMO witohut raiding

LOL

[frank ether]

Its funny that GW2 is given as a better example but GW2 a lot of casuals will have to go watch raids on youtube to even get closure on certain story events lmao

[languid estuary]

no, it died bc everyone was hype as fuck for the raids and there weren't any in the game for months after promising they'd be there on release

[bitter turtle]

you dont even need to go to club penguin and shit

pso2 basically has no raids for most of its lifespan

at least in th sense of

something difficult u need to organize for

its only towards the end of its life actually that u saw something that actually requires organization and optimization

for the base game

not ngs i mean

[raw steppe]

tbh if there was a MMO with satisfying combat and content to grind and chill/play with other ppl

[languid estuary]

yeah nobody does the raids or anything in gw2

people still play it

[raw steppe]

i would totally do it

[languid estuary]

nobody even does fractals anymore i think

[raw steppe]

yeah

[frank ether]

sure could, I like raids but very few people cares about them

[languid estuary]

and even the pvp which at one point was amazing

is barren

they just do the story

it's TOR fantasy

[bitter turtle]

ngl

i honestly think

[raw steppe]

i like raids too, but i think that the amount of pleasure I gain from them

[bitter turtle]

and again

no knock against them

[raw steppe]

is not worth the amount of effort

the devs have to put in

to make them

[bitter turtle]

bc i sometimes i like playing pso2 for this reason too

but a lot of modern mmo fanbase play the game more like animal crossing

[raw steppe]

is pso2 good

[bitter turtle]

than like an action game

[bitter turtle]

base pso2 had its up and downs

ngs is bad

like

i say this as someone whos played the game since the start

in jp

for like 10+ years now

[languid estuary]

which is why it's really baffling that ff14 is abandoning the personal island

[bitter turtle]

i try really hard to like ngs

but its bad

[frank ether]

no its pretty active, good source of gold

[bitter turtle]

the only thing that got better was the character creation

[frank ether]

its dungeons that are dead

[bitter turtle]

gameplay wise they forgot like literally every lesson learned over 10 years in base

[tired hornet]

MMO animal crossing sounds amazing

[frank ether]

because there isn't as much of a gold incentive with dungeons compared to fractals I guess

[tired hornet]

I should check out my island... I just put gnomes everywhere I could.

[bitter turtle]

they abandoned it

because it was absolutely fucking trash

i did the entire thing btw

all the rewards

the island had almost 0 cusotomization, everyones islands is the exact same as each other, and u just log in to spreadsheet simulator

[tired hornet]

Still, the switch animal crossing will never hold up to the 3DS one. 3DS might be my favorite console

[frank ether]

every mmos hould have jumping puzzles btw

[languid estuary]

it's sad nobody remembers rift

[frank ether]

its not a complete social experience if I'm not witnessing some bozo raging in yell chat about sucking at jumping lmao

[tired hornet]

oh fuck no, no game should have jumping puzzles

[raw steppe]

btw

how is sod WoW?

are ppl enjoying that

or is it just poo wrapped in colorful paper

[languid estuary]

my understanding is everyone abandoned it pretty quickly

[bitter turtle]

honestly

ngs makes me so disappointed when i think about it lul

[languid estuary]

i kinda wanna go back and play lotro

[frank ether]

I know like two people who quit GW2 over jumping puzzles even though its like completely optional content lmao

[languid estuary]

even though it's ancient

[frank ether]

people do be hating platforming

[bitter turtle]

when it was announced i was happy they were gonan keep supporting pso2 for another 10 years probably

how could i predict that they would literally trash all the gameplay of the classes and forget to put THINGS TO DO in the game

[frank ether]

lotro is like, weird

imagine making a lotr themed mmorpg (with pvp elements)

you can't play as the dark side

[languid estuary]

it's insane how much they gassed up that relaunch only for it to be a complete deflated baloon of a release

[languid estuary]

you can literally do this in lotro

like

[frank ether]

as like some basic mob yes

lame

[languid estuary]

lotro pvp was sick as fuck for a while

not sure what it's like now

[tired hornet]

Maybe driving the game into the ground is cheaper than keeping it going for another ten years

[bitter turtle]

i dont think so

they would have just ended it then

the story was done

and the game initially was promised 10 years of active development

so they could have just went into maintenance mode and said welp, that's all

but the game was making them money at the time

for a while pso2 was a big thing supporting sega

[frank ether]

this sort of promise in itself is a red flag lmao

[bitter turtle]

well ya

but

they actually delivered

like i said

base pso2 was not bad really

[frank ether]

remember when microsoft said windows 10 would be the last windows?

[bitter turtle]

ups and downs but in the end i didnt regret it

ngs just is baffling is all

[frank ether]

corpos and long term promises what a nice duo

[bitter turtle]

its like they got amnesia becauseits the same mistakes

that early pso2 had

like i unironically am not sure if their idea of starting the new edition of the game is just to do the same shit wrong again and slowly work back to fun

lol

[frank ether]

I mean fatshark also forgot a lot of things they learned making vt2 while releasing darktide but heyho

[bitter turtle]

yeah

now that u mention it

its that exact same feeling of

"didnt u already learn this lesson"

for DT

[frank ether]

it feels like a gut punch doesn't it

like being taken for a fool

even though you don't have to engage with it

[bitter turtle]

well

i dont really get addicted to mmos anymore

so i just dont play now

sometimes log on to mess with my character

that's about it

if it unfucks itself ill play again is all i think

[frank ether]

I pity people who feel entusiastic about stuff because they get ripped off the hardest

like most games just look for ways to rip you off somehow

mmos are the worst at this

its a good thing they are dying out, fuck mmos there are so few games even worth touching in that entire genre

literally designed to suck your life out

[junior needle]

More that they had unpopular things they wanted to do the whole time but you'll have a harder time getting people to accept making an existing system shittier in an established game as opposed to making things shittier in a new one.

[bitter turtle]

ngl

i also feel bad bc i know a lot of ppl play mmos as a form of being happier with themselves identity wise

i dont think its a coincidence that there is

a lot

of trans ppl playing mmos lol

also why iw as like at playing female char is just to erp or groom

[acoustic sapphire]

Are these good blessing for my infiltrator?

[bitter turtle]

but yeah i know why ppl stick to it in the end

its escapism

😔

[frank ether]

It is what it is unfortunately

in other news I am having fun with hd2 despite its flaws

[junior needle]

That's why I always play as a black man in MMO's

It's who I really am inside

[acoustic sapphire]

MMOs are a good way to live out power fantasies. Most video games are.

[frank ether]

ya I relate to that, I think I've been there at some point in my life

games as a form of escapism

[acoustic sapphire]

Should I keep Mercy Killer, or replace it with Precognition?

[bitter turtle]

do you want to take serrated blades

on the vet tree

if not, go precog

or riposte

if you do, mercy is ok

[junior needle]

Mercy killer requires the talent tax

And doesn't really help with horde clear

[winter grove]

So, axes are good at carapace right?

[junior needle]

Comparatively yes

[acoustic sapphire]

I already have a good bleeding MK 6 blade.
I do have Serrated Blades. I'm just wanting to try to max out damage so I don't have to be scared of 12 Crushers charging after me.

[bitter turtle]

precog can 2shot crushers with the buff up but the buff duration is short

personally i would go riposte if you dont want to sweat too hard

its a very comfy 3 shot

[frank ether]

combat axes have pretty good carapace mod on their heavy attacks

[bitter turtle]

if you're willing to sweat for 2 shot, precog

[winter grove]

What axe exactly?

[junior needle]

caxes mostly

[winter grove]

Im fine with that actually

[acoustic sapphire]

I can dig it. Thank you.

[junior needle]

Taxes are less good but not the worst

[frank ether]

I mean you can chip down at them with a tac axe too but... don't. Just don't

or well you know what

I'm tired of recommending meta shit

[winter grove]

So, rashad?

[frank ether]

if you feel like tac axe just play a tac axe if it makes you happy lmao

if you want the good stuff combat axe

[junior needle]

Rashad is currently acknowledged as the best caxe

[frank ether]

rashad is considered best but honestly

they are all good

pick the one you like attack patterns of

[junior needle]

Achlys

[bitter turtle]

just know they play differently

[frank ether]

I even like that one

[bitter turtle]

achlys does push + h1 repeatedly

[frank ether]

compared to a lot of other weapons

[winter grove]

I am really just asking for an axe I could use for a helbore based build

[junior needle]

It's much more work for less value compared to the others when properly built

[frank ether]

like I will take achlys over chainswords any day of the week

[winter grove]

Tactical axes felt disappointing

[bitter turtle]

isnt antax the iffy one

[winter grove]

Fast but where's cleave and damage

[bitter turtle]

it doesnt have finesse roll

harder to bp

[junior needle]

They are disappointing

Need a balance pass

[bitter turtle]

taxes are basically only playable on zealot imo

pretty fun on zel though

[junior needle]

the 4 with headtaker and shred is ok for horde clear light spam on zealot yeah

Pretty good ttk on harder targets too

[bitter turtle]

you can get super high crit rate

on zel

[winter grove]

Zealot makes melee way more enjoyable by being melee focused

[bitter turtle]

and just spam things to death with crit cdr

[frank ether]

I think tac axe just need to bring a little more to the table in mobility department maybe

[junior needle]

Achlys has the iffy moveset

[rigid pilot]

Powersword does better single target than tacaxe while having psword horde clear, it's hard to justify tacs

[bitter turtle]

achlys is push -> h1 no?

for 2 sweeps

[frank ether]

yep you do push attack

[bitter turtle]

or rather h1 push

[acoustic sapphire]

I think all melee weapons are viable. The Plasma Gun with the right loadout will clear hordes, and destroy armor.
My infiltrator runs Plasma and MK 6 Knife.

[bitter turtle]

w/e you get the point

[frank ether]

Its really not that bad

[junior needle]

Yes, but it's iffy because it's considerably more effort than "light spam at head height and occasionally heavy a hard target"

And less results

[frank ether]

rashad is just a dumb weapon

[bitter turtle]

doesnt antax need a lot of effort

[frank ether]

like about %90 of the options will look bad because rashad properly built is just, spam lights

[bitter turtle]

it replaces finesse with cleave target

u need way better stats

achlys uses heavies so you can do w/e honestly

[acoustic sapphire]

But this axe clears Crushers quickly.

[frank ether]

you should consider brutal momentum instead of decapitator for easier time cleaving hordes

just a personal recommendation

but Idk

I havent actually tried decapitator

[winter grove]

Man I really sparked a nice conversation with a question

[junior needle]

brutal is 100% necessary on caxes

[rigid pilot]

Is decapitator real, 24% finesse on an axe is like 12% damage boost to heads

[frank basin]

You put unyielding, crusher is carapace

[junior needle]

for horde clear

[frank ether]

I'd say it is on any weapon that has it

[acoustic sapphire]

All ogryn enemies are unyielding as well.

[bitter turtle]

well

sunder psword is a thing

[junior needle]

Not on taxes

[bitter turtle]

instead of bromentum

and ya i run shred headtaker on taxe

[frank ether]

hell look at helbore 3 bayo it was singlehandedly made viable by brutal momentum bug

just a testament to how broken good the blessing is

[rigid pilot]

You mean previously or now ?

[bitter turtle]

previously

[frank basin]

Not sure if crusher contain the code of unyielding

[frank ether]

Its gone now, so helbore 3 bayonet is worse than a regular weapon bash

[frank basin]

You hit their armor count as carapace

[frank ether]

the only thing it will kill is a poxwalker (a single one), so you might aswell shoot it now

[rigid pilot]

I want to love helbores but

[frank basin]

If crusher has unyielding then what’s the point with carapace exist

[rigid pilot]

I rather just use a surgical bolter

[frank ether]

the bayonet on 1-2 is still very serviceable

[junior needle]

crushers aren't last I checked

[acoustic sapphire]

If it doesn't, I haven't noticed any difficulty killing Crushers. Bulwarks are the only thing that I have to time my strikes for.
Plus being able to stun lock a Plague Ogryn is hilarious.

[frank basin]

Bulwark and reaper two unyielding

[bitter turtle]

but still a pale imitation of what it once was

😔

[frank ether]

I'm mad at fatshark for nerfing BM interaction

Its very not based

[frank basin]

And roaming bosses also unyielding @acoustic sapphire

Captain traitor is flak

[frank ether]

they did this with ogryn weapon melee aswell

like why even nerf it

let people have fun

its not overperforming

[bitter turtle]

i can understand fixing the bug

but they should have just

given the bayonet better cleave

so you dont need to depend on bromentum

if the weapon was fine in its state

[frank ether]

I understood the limbsplitter nerf that was dumb

[acoustic sapphire]

Ah. Regardless, I like my Antax axe. It's served me well. Thanks for the clarification.

[bitter turtle]

the cleave is really trash w/o bromentum

[rigid pilot]

I guess they want bayonets to be a 'last resort' option but how real is it in a game where swapping to melee is less than a second

[frank ether]

thats what I assumed would happen but apparently not

[potent iris]

bromentum honestly just shouldn't exist in the way it does tbh, they'll never balance it in a way they want with how it is rn

[frank basin]

Remove them until nothing remain

[rigid pilot]

How should they exist though

[frank ether]

thats a separate discussion that I actually agree with because it becomes mandatory on any weapon its on, but now that its gone and helbore 3 dragging is also gone, I'm just sad. It was cool.

[acoustic sapphire]

Charging with Bayonets is always a viable option.
I remember Battlefield 1's bayonet charges. The Shunk and kill animation always lit up my neurons.

[junior needle]

Yeah I double checked just in case. Also, definitely shoot for brutal on a future upgrade. The clear on caxes is quite poor without it.

[potent iris]

bayonets just need to be made good on their own yeah

[junior needle]

Like recons need to be made good on their own

And not absolute dog that's only made somewhat ok with multiple talent taxes

[potent iris]

yea I loved bayonets in CoD WaW as well

[torpid pier]

and vrak 7 needs to pierce all targets like plasma gun

[acoustic sapphire]

The numbers don't lie.
I'll consider it. I'm fixated on knives and chain axes currently.
My Antax was a gift from the Emperor, so it's the only reason I have one.
If I get bored, I'll build a new one, and keep that in mind. Dankeschön.

[rigid pilot]

Plasma needs to explode and kill their user every second shot

[junior needle]

Also executor should not drop on bodyshot hits, or only drop one stack

[torpid pier]

hard agree

[winter grove]

Lore accurate

[bitter turtle]

omg

buff to my original build

isnt plasma already good enough smh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvTcePTUT_E

[frank basin]

I want plasma explode like same damage ogryn grenade

[acoustic sapphire]

Reposting because it's relevant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9R9PkBpWtAo&pp=ygUYZ3VhcmRtYW5zIGxpZmUgYW5pbWF0aW9u

[rigid pilot]

Hey, it almost killed a crusher

[frank ether]

I'm sure they'll buff them in some way again eventually but the melee drags were incredibly based game mechanic, and something about having a bayonet that is actually functional and not just a roleplay gimmick is well.. It feels great.

[bitter turtle]

just so you know

thrt crusher was at under half hp

so

actually it almost did half of a crusher's hp

so strong

like half a krak grenade!

but you acn use it like 5 times before you run out of wounds

imagine having 5 extra grenades at the start of the round

[rigid pilot]

You can use it like twice before your team stops picking you up

[frank basin]

Demolition class when

I think they won’t

Rotary gl fun

I favor stubber machine gun

[rigid pilot]

LMG one day

[acoustic sapphire]

Sharing a wholesome moment on the Morning Star.

[winter grove]

So I tried out a bayonet helbore build

And I must say

It's really fun actually

Considering it can two shot crushers with rashad too

[shadow aurora]

And people say its bad

[muted knot]

Sadly we lost Brutal momentum on the bayonets 😦

[frank basin]

They patched?

[muted knot]

Ye

[frank basin]

I remember someone did pair limbsplitter bug

[muted knot]

What

Limbsplitter has been gone for a while

BM was in the latest patch

[thick flint]

thats why he only remembers it

[frank basin]

https://tenor.com/view/darktide-ghost-barrel-explode-fly-gif-10528166394804192796

[winter grove]

I wonder why we can't have cosmetics from promo arts

[strange fable]

anyone know how to get the 5 kills with a grenade without it bouncing?

[simple harness]

hit the g key, left click

but from far away 😉

[craggy marsh]

Easy mission to try it on is something like the hab dreyko scan with the tree. During that gauntlet there are lots of spawns with long corridors so you’ll have a few tries. Also go to psykanium and toss a few to see how high up you need to be for an airburst

[terse idol]

Coming eventually™️

Maybe Penance 3

whooo knows

Actually it might make sense it's penance 3 but we reeally have no idea

[strange fable]

Which melee weap is best if running a squad leader build with plasma gun?

[junior needle]

Anything you can comfortably clear chaffe with because your plasma already handles everything else

Rashad and psword are considered the best* but you may find it hard to get a good one

Both need to be built properly mind you

[strange fable]

Which of thew 2 pswords are best?

[junior needle]

mk6

Generally regarded as just better

Although maybe that changed with a recent patch

[frank ether]

I dont feel like using psword to find out

[strange fable]

been using the mk3, but never can decide when opportune time is to activcate its special given its only 1 swing

[junior needle]

You basically just don't use the pswords unless you have cycler

[strange fable]

is that the one that makes it last for like 2-3 swingas?

[wanton dawn]

Yes it is. Compare to standard melee build you lose atk speed but dmg per hit is same or above

[flint garden]

Yep

[wanton dawn]

Losing bm is sad but bayonet is still caxe dmg + stagger profile on a super spammable stab move.

Bad against carapace, but still great again the rest if you are comfy with dodging timing

[umbral scaffold]

build ' i don't need a team'🤣

[winter grove]

Yes that's why I grabbed rashad just for the crushers

[bitter furnace]

Then overcharge your lucius and blow their faceplate off

[junior needle]

If only there were a gun attached to this bayonet to deal with crushers

[wanton dawn]

Charged shot lucius is not great against carapace either. This aint a mk3

[umbral scaffold]

So... Melk is selling this... should I?

[frank ether]

no

[wanton dawn]

If you have 10k+ you might as well

[strange fable]

What autogun's/braced autoguns are the go to for veteran?

[umbral scaffold]

He's selling it for 2.4k

[wanton dawn]

Ciag, agri brauto

[potent iris]

the boring answer is CIAG yeah lol

[bitter turtle]

its really bad

stats are ok

[potent iris]

I'd probs give it a miss

[strange fable]

When you say CIAG do you mean both the regular IAG and braced version too?

[bitter turtle]

but 4/4 bad rolls on perk/blessing

[junior needle]

Not really good, I wouldn't

[bitter turtle]

columnus infantry autogun
agrinippa braced autogun

[junior needle]

Stats are alright but rolls are uh

[bitter turtle]

that is what they are saying

[junior needle]

Vraks 7 is good for a dmr

Vraks 3 is also good for a dmr

Agri HH is the weakest of the bunch

[strange fable]

IS the recon lasgun any good?

[potent iris]

agri 9 is very close to feeling nice, but sadly isn't there yet

[junior needle]

Because it does slightly less dps than a vraks 3 but has more jank

[potent iris]

it is incredibly sad rn

[wanton dawn]

No

[junior needle]

Really poorly performing line atm

[wanton dawn]

We may disagree on stuff here but not on recon being bottom tier

[junior needle]

Slightly less dps base that is, not sure how the disparity lines up when the headhunter blessing interaction comes into play

But definitely worse there for agri hh

[frank ether]

agri HH has some ugly horizontal recoil

questionable on a weapon supposed to excel at precision

one burst goes left one burst goes right

one goes straight up

[junior needle]

yup

It's worse with the iron sights but I don't have a video for that atm

[frank ether]

I also don't like fishing for crits on this weapon

[flat vessel]

anyone have a build that spams voice of command ability i find the yelling sastifying

[reef thorn]

the slowest firing recon is pretty decent actually, go headhunter/dumdum and use it more like a precision weapon with Shocktrooper and its very ammo efficient. dont bother with Onslaught, even with it youve gotta dump a whole clip over 4 seconds when a Knife or C.Axe will just kill in 3 heavies

[stable socket]

take the tactical awareness (?) node that gives -6s cd on career skill when you kill an elite/specialist (edit: it's specialist only unlike psykinetic aura, RIP)

then you can spam voc

[agile forge]

Any VoC build lol

Since every build runs the CDR on elite/special kill

And don't take the stupid revive node

[stable socket]

shout -> shoot single plasma round into 5 stacked shotgunners -> shout again

[flat vessel]

but it makes me use it faster :'(

[odd sparrow]

unfortunately only works against specials like trappers, flamers, snipers, etc

[void rampart]

Is a trap node, the knockback from VoC will allow you to pick up anyone in time and the toughness should keep you safe from ranged breaking toughness unless you're getting turned into swiss cheese already

You wanna be able to spam it as much as possible, and the bigger radius and shorter cooldown will keep you safer in the long run

[stable socket]

oh RIP it is only specialists, i think i mixed it up with psykinetic aura

[odd sparrow]

revive increases the cooldown by 15 seconds. So you go from 30 --> 45

[flat vessel]

oh i am dumb

thats why i only play ogryn alot more simple for me

[agile forge]

Literally does the opposite lol, also causes you to hold it for revive when it's better to spam for overtoughness

[agile forge]

Yeah, veteran trees are a mess honestly

They intimidate me away from playing the class a bit

[odd sparrow]

i would advise an columnus mk V autogun as they shred maniacs which are most of the specials

[agile forge]

Although I do now have a lovely CIAG E-stance MF build which I am absolutely in love with

[odd sparrow]

or just plasma bc its op

[stable socket]

plasma with 25% maniac can one shot body shot both flamers

which is pretty nice

[agile forge]

Feels like my beloved gun psyker without the risk of critical existence failure

[flat vessel]

what is cdr?

[odd sparrow]

CoolDown Reduction

lowering the cooldown of your abilities

[flat vessel]

i was curious by this sentence is there a node for this or?

[odd sparrow]

middle path

[reef thorn]

Something like this. the last point goes field improv or some other damage node if someone already has it
https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9b6f5b0e-ea89-4d32-8cb2-9714a83c03ba/generic-reconlas

if you really want the last point could go +25 toughness, makes the build comfy

melee could be literally any weapon that can kill crushers, mk VI powersword with brutal momentum+power cycler and carapace+weakspot oneshots them with pa

knife is knife either is good

[agile forge]

Mk VI

[reef thorn]

oh yeah mb

[junior needle]

I assume taking precision strikes for the knife?

I'd drop volley adept

recons reload fast and rending strikes would be a good pickup

Also I recommend uncanny on the knife

[bitter turtle]

No onslaught or rending?

[junior needle]

7a doesn't benefit much from onslaught except on crushers

but rending strikes is a good pickup

[bitter turtle]

Oh this is 7

But why

[junior needle]

Of course the 7a is pretty bad

[bitter turtle]

If you want to use a recon at least do 6d

Also knife + recon is a spooky combo

[junior needle]

Yeah I'd drop volley adept/demo team for rending

[bitter turtle]

i dont think suppression immunity is particularly useful on recon either

[junior needle]

It surprisingly is

[bitter turtle]

its not a gun good at shooting at long range anymore anyway

i would avoid that situation from the start

where the suppression effect would matter

after they fucked the inverse dmg falloff

[junior needle]

Shooting things at long range is like the only thing they're ok at because of their ads spread

[junior needle]

Only the 6d had inverse falloff

[agile forge]

Why would you use Recon over an IAG btw?

[bitter turtle]

does the 7 also have that shitty 50% on flak

[bitter turtle]

there is no reason

[agile forge]

Funni red lasers?

[bitter turtle]

yes

that's about it

[junior needle]

For practical reasons? None whatsoever. They're very undertuned atm and substantially inferior to iag's.

[bitter turtle]

last time i played it after shocktrooper un-nerf i did MF 6d

it was

playable

[junior needle]

But yeah, you get the hipfire spread on your ads if you get suppressed

[agile forge]

Is there any element that they do better? Like less recoil or something?

[bitter turtle]

there is 0 recoil on recons

so that's about it

but just play graia

[junior needle]

Not zero but barely any

[bitter turtle]

iag

if you hate recoil

[agile forge]

So they're like a beginner trap I guess

[junior needle]

But the thing is, they do like 1/2 to 1/4 the dps of an iag

And also have worse ammo efficiency

So basically yeah

Noob trap

[agile forge]

I know they're terrible, just trying to see what the design idea is

Since I have never touched one

[junior needle]

They're supposedly on the line for a rework

[agile forge]

But so many people love them

[junior needle]

But they're a relic of poor release balancing and they've never had a proper pass

[bitter turtle]

https://i.gyazo.com/9a4fdba3d67b88951232ab3f9e62c0fe.png

this is what i ran at least

for 6d

on that one game

[agile forge]

I do wish they were good, I would love a rapid laser

[bitter turtle]

it was still pretty trash though

[junior needle]

I wouldn't take mf on it honestly

[agile forge]

If my CIAG could be reflavoured I would be really happy

[junior needle]

Can put those points to better use

[bitter turtle]

not much else increases dmg to maniac

[agile forge]

Seems like a great gun to use MF on though?

[junior needle]

https://www.nexusmods.com/warhammer40kdarktide/mods/174

[bitter turtle]

i can get a whole

2.4k dps on maniac

with that build

[junior needle]

They have extremely low base finesse modifiers, and finesse damage boosts work off the damage bonus

[agile forge]

Since MF favours easily controllable rapid fire

Ooh ok

[bitter turtle]

yeah

their bonuses are not high

just i was taking every single thing that can boost maniac dmg

that isnt uh

skirmisher or other things even more meme

[agile forge]

MF works like Disrupt Destiny then

[bitter turtle]

their maniac dmg is notoriously bad

[junior needle]

You could put it into crit chance/longshot, or shoot for the ping keystone

Rending stacking fixes the 6d's poor modifiers

It has 3 damage types that go down to 50%

[bitter turtle]

im too lazy for pinging shit but yeah that might work

[junior needle]

By default

[bitter turtle]

and yeah that is why i considering the double rending mandatory

[junior needle]

Mhm

[bitter turtle]

i guess you could do redirect + ping instead

but im not playing that shit again anyway

[junior needle]

longshot and crit is also easy pickup

Crit is both more damage AND more ammo efficiency

[bitter turtle]

honestly

the ammo is ok now

like

its still nerfed as fuck compared to before

but i didnt run out at least

without needing to literally slurp up all ammo

[junior needle]

Hmm

I dunno about that one

[bitter turtle]

keep in mind

i barely used melee

as u saw

and only 1 more ammo pickup than the next guy

i think that's reasonable

did more elite kills than everyone else combined so was still shooting things

[junior needle]

That guy wasn't even shooting his gun at enemies

[bitter turtle]

yeah

[junior needle]

No clue what he was doing but he definitely wasn't using all that ammo with 74k damage done

Not even 1/4 of it

[bitter turtle]

but regardless you can say that i didnt hose all the ammo at least

despite relying pretty hard on the gun

did over 2x my melee bc i was trying not to melee lul

i think its passable now in that front a tleast

but still really bad dmg

[junior needle]

155 is double the usual recon vet melee kills

I dunno, you slurped a ton of ammo in that example to get to the point of not running out

[bitter turtle]

https://i.gyazo.com/ede0cca742a3a133630be0534562642f.png

is not so different than iag runs

except for the part where

[junior needle]

The guy next to you pulled a fair bit more damage and used like 1/3 the ammo

[bitter turtle]

you know

i do damage

he was smacking away at hordes

2x horde kills lul

[junior needle]

No no, ranged damage

In that first example

[bitter turtle]

well again

i didnt say the dmg was good

its still trash

you can still snipe out elites well enough at least

[junior needle]

Damage and ammo efficiency are interlinked

[bitter turtle]

yeah but we're talking about an ogryn shooting into crowds

even good guns dont really compete on that

[junior needle]

What gun was it

[bitter turtle]

i forgot

but he was just unloading on crowds half the time

or smacking away at them

sinc ei was avoiding melee

i just let him do it

rather than hose recon into crowd like a memer

ngl

i dont know ogryn guns

i dont play ogryn

i dont watch ogryns

ignore ogryn posters

[junior needle]

I'm quite surprised your ammo/damage ratio looks like that with an iag

[bitter turtle]

[junior needle]

My ranged damage gets near that using revolver

And if there's a surv vet I don't need to pick up ammo

Also look at this recon user

SHAME

[bitter turtle]

it was a similar scenario actually

since i was doing knife/iag

so i was hosing into crowds

a LOT

[junior needle]

[bitter turtle]

but again

didnt say recon was gud

just that its playable now

you cant compare it to iag still

[agile forge]

IAG with MF isn't so bad for crowdspraying imo

[bitter turtle]

which can hose into crowds lul

[junior needle]

MF is like the second worst keystone you can pick on them

[bitter turtle]

but yeah, low melee usage in that game as well

[agile forge]

It works better than you would think

[junior needle]

Because dog finesse values

[bitter turtle]

which is why i used them to compare

[agile forge]

CIAG has great finesse

[junior needle]

Oh hold on, my brain read that as recon

Yeah iag's have great finesse values

[reef thorn]

no, because even with rending + onslaught the recongun still sucks at killing crushers and we can literally just use a knife for it.
precision strikes is good on knife yeah but the 7a likes it as well, especially since we are taking headhunter and aiming for headshots anyway.

[junior needle]

My bad

[bitter turtle]

is not for crushers

the recon sucks on literally everything

though i didnt notice it was 7 so idk their dmg profiles

but you literally have 50% dmg modifier on like

flak

maniac

unyielding

on 6d

which happens to be the

"""""best""""" recon too

[agile forge]

Did my first run with E Stance, MF and CIAG on HI5 Magistrati and it was a fucking bloodbath

All those corridors are utterly trivialised by a good cone of death gun

[junior needle]

Recons have very, very low finesse values so the precision strikes value is quite low on them. I'd strongly recommend rending strikes as a pickup for falloff damage and helping with maniac (plus it's useful for everything).

Yeah ciag is busted

The reason it sucks at killing crushers even with rending is because reasons have really low base dps

[reef thorn]

the build is kinda just a generic one so yeah you could change bits of it np. but mutants drop dead cos only ragers and maniacs have any health, flak perk helps with gunners

im not saying rending is bad

[junior needle]

Well, you don't need to take onslaught

[bitter turtle]

also

[junior needle]

But rending strikes would still do you better

[bitter turtle]

tested it

MF does add a bit more at high stack than 2 focus 5 redirect

[junior needle]

It counters falloff from range as well

[bitter turtle]

but unreliable yeah

@ 6d

[junior needle]

Plus the 25 toughness node is on the way

[bitter turtle]

well its hard to say for sure anyway

[reef thorn]

dropping 2 things points for rending is fine

[bitter turtle]

since crit strings but yeah

[junior needle]

I also recommend picking up the 5% crit node

[agile forge]

That node is legit crazy on every class it appears

[reef thorn]

eh, not really needed we have a lot of crit

[junior needle]

You want as much crit as possible

Because of shocktrooper

trust me, even with headhunter

Recawns are a special case

[bitter turtle]

https://i.gyazo.com/835deb2a08905f9e5b877d8a35b130f1.jpg

lul

omg 2.7k dps on mutant with recon

[agile forge]

No such thing as too much crit

[bitter turtle]

its almost

still pretty shit but hey

MF

[junior needle]

Meanwhile

With enough boosts from the talent tree and a full build, you can get a bit close to the gray/talentless performance of a ciag

[bitter turtle]

focus target can match if u have 5 redirect 5 stacks

which i would say is harder than 10 MF stacks prob

or not harder, but not as reliable

idk who cares recon suggs

https://i.gyazo.com/b61226ccd89df2a1f51e25f7af40e316.jpg

5 focus 5 redirect

[jaunty sphinx]

columnus my beloved

[junior needle]

Here's without crits

There was even a sneaky bodyshot in there to fudge the dps a bit lower

[formal rock]

Is autogun bracing bugged?
Agripinaa and Columnus both seem to be more accurate when hipfired than when braced (despite the UI saying otherwise).
This is visible by observing the reticle bloom (I have remapped both firing modes to the hipfire reticle for comparison's sake):

• When braced-fired, the reticle quickly blooms to a set size, then slowly grows over time as more shots are fired.
• When hipfired, the reticle also blooms to a set size, but then slowly shrinks over time instead.
• Graia blooms but then stays relatively stable when hipfired, and blooms->shrinks when braced-fired. But this may be working as intended, as similar weapons IRL also behave in this manner when fired at full auto.

[junior needle]

It's not a bug, it's a feature. Well known for awhile now that you can hipfire agri for better accuracy.

It's a stupid feature but fatshark hasn't fixed it so

[formal rock]

Bruh

I was wondering why the heck the guns were behaving so unintuitively

[junior needle]

Been like that for over a year now

[formal rock]

Obese Megalodon please

I hope this isn't intended behaviour lmao

[agile forge]

You're talking about Braced autoguns only right?

[formal rock]

Aye

[agile forge]

Not infantry autoguns?

I think it basically turns your spread from a circle into a wide oval?

[junior needle]

Yes those are braced

[agile forge]

So you can use it to spray at a crowd

And hit their heads more with the BAG's dogshit weakspot multiplier

[formal rock]

That's what it implies, but only the Graia actually seems to do this

You can see for it yourself in the vids I uploaded above

[agile forge]

Fair enough, I haven't used one since the CIAG buff

[formal rock]

The Agri/Col just appear to get bigger versions of the hipfire cone

(Mind you, this is a lot more apparent after remapping both reticles to be the hipfire one, the braced-fire "spray 'n pray" < • > reticle obscures this a lot)

[thorn hamlet]

Atm the only brautogun I use is the Graia - lots of ammo, actually increases RoF while you brace

The rest seems a bit..useless? Am I using them wrong?

[junior needle]

There's a plethora of good autoguns

From multiple families

[thorn hamlet]

Yeah I mean the infantry autoguns are fine, I was only talking about the braced autoguns

[junior needle]

agri is still widely regarded as the best

I don't really see anyone talk about the colbrauto

[formal rock]

This was precisely why I did my tests above, haha. Brace-firing the Agri/Col seems to actually make the guns more innacurate over sustained fire than hipfiring does.
Very short bursts of 5-10 bullets is more accurate when bracing, but after that, the bracing reticle will slowly grow, while the hipfiring reticle will slowly shrink.
No idea if this is intended behaviour, but seeing as the ingame descriptions strongly imply that braced-fire should have like 1/5 the recoil of hipfiring, I doubt it.

Graia appears to work as intended, though. It's also the only braced autogun that changes fire-rate too, as you noted.

[thorn hamlet]

Thanks for the info you provided with the videos, was just wondering why choosing other brautoguns outside the Graia, especially if their intended "special attack" doesn't work as intended/needs a rework

[dire olive]

Agri is way more accurate than the others

Col is a meh small damage per shot increase over the graia with same hip fire rof but no braced increase. Would only pick if you like the feel of it for whatever reason

[formal rock]

Yeah, at this point, it's raw stats more than anything. Assuming that braced-fire is actually bugged and not just a mystery of the FatShark Warp, it only makes sense to compare the Agri/Col brautoguns as pure hipfire bullet hoses right now.

[thorn hamlet]

Also it has the highest damage per shot, right?

[dire olive]

Yes, and stagger

[agile forge]

Machine spirit's gonna machine spirit

Agri also overpenetrates better

[thorn hamlet]

Understood, thanks a lot

[agile forge]

Cleaves

Whatever you wanna call it

[thorn hamlet]

Thanks to you too!

[agile forge]

Hits multiple targets per bullet I mean

[formal rock]

Would only pick [Columnus] if you like the feel of it for whatever reason
Or if you're me and thought that all Columnuses were broken and not just the infantry version

[formal rock]

You're welcome!

[dire olive]

TLDR:
take agri for accuracy and hard hits
Take graia for boolet hose

[formal rock]

And take Columnus if you're a metaslave but can't read

[proud marsh]

guys

best colum perks?

flak armored and maniacs I'm guessing?

[junior needle]

you'd be correct

[bitter turtle]

holy fug

i did the most big brain plain

i will ever do in this game

we were 3 bc dumbass psyker got pissy and left and trying to do chasm logistratum final section with the ammo

complete disaster when 2 bon spawn immediately

slowly working our way through the ammo until the last one, but others went down

im ilterally on 1 hp from all the goddamn corruption with like a gorillion maulers coming at me

get eaten on purpose bc BoN eat attack doesnt kill

he turn saround and spits me out past all of them and beeline to res lul

[stiff glacier]

Lucius mk3 was really nice besides ammo spent by charged shots

[autumn wave]

Surgical + Shock trooper takes care of all your ammo woes

[balmy flume]

And also the original Vet passive if you use it

(Gaining ammo on Elite/specialist kills IIRC)

[stiff glacier]

Ive been ignoring the left tree bit too much

[agile forge]

Mk III also has a bad bayonette

which is a bit awkward with the swap speed

but on the other hand, discount plasma

I love the left side tree but I tend to see it as favouring rapid fire weapons rather than single-shot wonders

I like the middle tree more for those

[stiff glacier]

I live frags but i prefer the right side tree

Conflicts hard with builds

[thorn hamlet]

This game moderately hates slow firing gun that require precision shots

[agile forge]

Except for Zarona, my beloved.

(but then they give it a fuckin mario sized bullet)

(so it's not that precise really)

Throwing knives I guess count?

[thorn hamlet]

Until (and if) we get proper sights most of the headhunter autoguns are """bad""" in the sense that they're surpassed by a lot of guns in versatility and use

[agile forge]

they're the most satisfying real precision weapon in the game imo

[thorn hamlet]

That makes me cry

[agile forge]

Also headhunters have the bad-maniac-multiplier problem iirc

[sacred spindle]

any sort of semi auto gun is a great way to get carpal tunnel

[agile forge]

guns with bad maniac damage are basically dead on arrival as far as I'm concerned

[thorn hamlet]

Kek if they add a bolt pistol and it doesn't do the same damage as revolver

[agile forge]

If they give it a bigger magazine than revolver I'd accept it

explosive bullets maybe

Zarona can just have some kind of fancy tech bullet bullshit

Bolters shouldn't just be the revered god gun that makes all other weapons obsolete

it's more canonically true perhaps but not the best balance

especially if they want to keep bolt weapons as precise as they are currently

[thorn hamlet]

Honestly if they incentivize proper shooting you shouldn't have to spam fire

[thorn hamlet]

I agree

[agile forge]

A bolt pistol that does more damage than a Zarona would break the game as it stands

[thorn hamlet]

Was just joking around

[agile forge]

Yeah, fair enough

it's a legit take that a lot of people have though lol

"why is it that when I fire my bolter once I don't annihilate every enemy on Tertium at once and also dislocate my character's shoulder and also my real shoulder"

[thorn hamlet]

Well a bolt pistol could have the same damage but a whole lot of different stats - in particular I would see it as a very difficult weapon to handle, like you said

[agile forge]

It'd be fun if it didn't penetrate but exploded inside the target maybe?

[austere pine]

at melk. good or not good?

[agile forge]

Similar to the grenade gauntlet maybe

[agile forge]

Bad perks, blessing could be better

[thorn hamlet]

The only thing I kinda am bummed about the revolver is it's precision at long distances, makes me feel useless whenever I'm using any other weapon

[junior needle]

The slower firing guns are generally doing better compared to automatics

[agile forge]

not worth the melkbux

[austere pine]

👍

[agile forge]

CIAG is the exception I guess

guess it applies across the board now I think about it

even ogryn, kickback is undisputedly king right now

stubbers come close but not close enough

[thorn hamlet]

Meh, it depends - you like earning money?

[austere pine]

i am an addict for god/supergood rolls

so yes

but still no cuz hp feels like i'm shooting myself in the foot

if it was to be a 16% toughness or smth i would have gotten it

[junior needle]

Indeed, it is a very notable overperformer. The other iag's aren't that far behind but are more reasonable.

[thorn hamlet]

I don't see many headhunters, lasguns or krieg lasguns honestly - but I'm no statistic so yeah I was talking about my experience

[agile forge]

You see quite a few hellbores imo

mostly the I and IIs because of the bayonet

[austere pine]

i see helbores quite often i'd say

[agile forge]

I see the Ia kantrael lasgun a fair bit too

[austere pine]

yeah the basic lasgun i see often

[agile forge]

but that's a pretty fast shooter

[stiff glacier]

I rarely see the normal lasguns these days

[agile forge]

it's just what's good at the moment

[stiff glacier]

Ive picked the mgla for the zealot

[agile forge]

You don't see so many MGXIIs because they've been powercrept (and they were overrated even before patch 13)

[austere pine]

but i see somebody with a headhunter and my eyes go 😒

[agile forge]

(like they were decent but never overperformers)

[junior needle]

What difficulty are you playing at? Typically lower difficulty players prefer automatics on principle.

[agile forge]

(great levelling gun though)

[junior needle]

A lot of the semi autos are superceded by the strength of revolver and plasma currently

[thorn hamlet]

Mostly Damnation and Auric Heresy/Damnation

[agile forge]

tbh at higher levels I feel more pressured to take an automatic

either an automatic or a cleave machine

single-shot weapons that don't penetrate just don't have the killing power imo

[thorn hamlet]

Either IAG, plasma or revolvers running around

[agile forge]

when the game likes to put 10 shotgunners inside of the same pixel

[austere pine]

or staves for psykers

[agile forge]

CIAG best psyker weapon

fite me

[austere pine]

yes you named the feeling

[junior needle]

Are you shooting into hordes to avoid using your melee weapon?

[thorn hamlet]

Man I love to be Gundalf but the staves are pretty good, ngl

[agile forge]

(quickly before I blow my own head up by mistake)

[austere pine]

my surge staff with lvl 4 nexus would like to disagree

i can solo monstrosities with my surge staff

it's actually insane

[junior needle]

Yeah that's what I thought. Those other guns aren't necessarily bad, it's just other guns are notably overperforming and it's the highest difficulty content.

[agile forge]

only in MF builds, I was talking more about the massive clumps of elites

[agile forge]

Have you seen the damage a properly built Gunker can do to a monstrosity?

[thorn hamlet]

That's where I suffer the most with slow firing weps

[austere pine]

i can imagine, but still

[thorn hamlet]

You can't keep up

[agile forge]

Not shitting on staves

I love staves too

[austere pine]

an improperly built surge staff can do good stuff

[agile forge]

but if we're talking boss dps in particular

[thorn hamlet]

Possibly, I'm not saying you're wrong

[junior needle]

Don't think the revolver can pen a lot of elites, ciag certainly doesn't. Plasma can on charged shots easy though.

[agile forge]

that's the one area where a gun on a psyker shines brighter than a billion stars

[agile forge]

Revolver absolutely can (well, Zarona anyway)

[austere pine]

and i'd rather use a staff to divert resources into people who need them

[agile forge]

CIAG kinda doesn't but it lays down enough fire that it doesn't have to? It penetrates through volume of fire

[austere pine]

zarona can

[agile forge]

Plasma also doesn't even need charged shots

[junior needle]

Ciag barely penetrates chaffe

[austere pine]

i got maybe a 5k once just through a zarona headshot

[junior needle]

Certainly not stuff with 10 hit mass

[agile forge]

I'm talking about the human sized elites here

[austere pine]

ciag cannot deal with shit, really

[agile forge]

gunners, shotgunners, etc

[austere pine]

it can't penetrate a single dude

[agile forge]

It doesn't have to, because it's killed that dude in 0.2s

and then the next bullets kill the one behind it

etc

it's penetration via volume of fire, not via cleave

[junior needle]

The revolver has a cleave value of 6.5, so won't be penetrating anything ragers or maulers

[austere pine]

it's still good because of what you say, but pure penetration (aka hitting and stunning multiple people) it just cannot do

[junior needle]

You can get two dreg gunners

which are 4

4 shotgunners which are 2 hit mass, quite flimsy

[austere pine]

do i roll a 355 psword6 for pc4?

[agile forge]

Put the DD and SG multipliers on it, or E-Stance and Marksman's Focus

And it might not be technically penetrating

but your kill feed won't be able to tell

[junior needle]

Huh, this can't be right. Gameslantern has naked ragers at 4 hit mass

but flak ragers at 10

[austere pine]

bumperino

[agile forge]

I feel like scab ragers are way rarer than dreg ragers

I guess because scabs have the elite bruiser budget split between ragers and maulers

[austere pine]

i see scab ragers less than maulers or crushers fr

[agile forge]

and dregs just get dreg ragers

Scab ragers seem way less scary idk why

[austere pine]

because the game doesn't spawn 20 of them at the same time

it's always maulers like a group of 2 maulers and 1 rager

[gaunt delta]

I don’t know, and I don’t know who would know

[junior needle]

Huh, well you can get 2 ragers with a revolver but not 3, and only one scab rager. So I guess it's correct

[trim hemlock]

Either way it’s a gamble

So if you have the resources, go for it

[austere pine]

i got slaughterer 3

[junior needle]

Well you can pen naked ragers a bit with revolver, strange that I never noticed this before

[austere pine]

i'll go sulk into auric damnation brb

[agile forge]

Tbh with ragers I'm happy to just nail them on their own anyway

same with maulers

As I said, it's the multi-shotgunner clusters

and multi-gunner clusters

that make me love the Zarona above all

Ragers and maulers tend to spread out a little more because they're engaging in melee

while the ranged elites tend to turn a corner and then plant

[junior needle]

Maulers are a definite no for cleave

[agile forge]

or walk in a line

so cleaving is more relevant with them imo

[junior needle]

ciag only has enough cleave for groaners I think

So you aren't penetrating anything with that

[agile forge]

Again, don't think about CIAG in terms of statistical cleave value

the moment a target is dead, it's not blocking shit

[austere pine]

i am not doing auric damnation

i dunno who chose these but they can keep them

[junior needle]

I'm aware that you can just kill single targets very fast in lieu of cleaving

Just mentioning that fact in case there was any confusion

[agile forge]

The RoF is fast enough, it's like a simulated cleave

yeah, fair enough

[bitter turtle]

I don't think that has anything to do with rof

It just does a lot of dmg

[agile forge]

You don't feel like STG then?

The dogs games though

take survivalist aura

[junior needle]

Oh yeah, I was going to mention. As far as lasguns go, the automatics are bottom of the barrel trash.

[agile forge]

and it's free ammo

[bitter turtle]

i mean 6d has high rof too

[junior needle]

All the good ones are single fire

none of the good ones are automatic

[agile forge]

RoF and damage

that's the key

a high damage low RoF no cleave weapon isn't so great imo

it's the problem with the Agripinaa revolver

[austere pine]

too high of a concentration of bad modifiers and terrible maps. sniper gauntlet, dogs and refinery delta-fucking-17 are all horrible on non-auric to me

[agile forge]

What's the problem with the maps?

I guess I don't dislike any of the maps tbh

[austere pine]

the presence of delta 17 makes me not wanna play quickplay on the difficulty

[agile forge]

Fair enough

The existence of Power Supply Interruption already does that for me lol

Fucking miserable modifier

they should put it back on periodic availability

[junior needle]

Problem with the agri revolver is that the accuracy on the fan is big shit and you can blow things up better with other guns if you just want a close-ish range buster

[agile forge]

It pollutes quickplay and makes it unplayable for me

[agile forge]

also bad cleave

compared with Zarona

[junior needle]

I could deal with the lack of cleave

[agile forge]

I guess for a veteran you don't feel it as much

[junior needle]

I can't deal with my shots going super wide past 15m

[bitter turtle]

agri is a balanced zarona

[agile forge]

but on a Zealot I need it to down a sniper or whatever while I'm in the middle of a heretic death ball

[bitter turtle]

[junior needle]

Agri is like some kind of shotgun or something

[agile forge]

I need to not give a shit about how many poxy bois there are in between me and my target

[agile forge]

Ironic since the agri shotgun is like a revolver

[junior needle]

But like a cod shotgun where it blows at range

[stiff glacier]

Lawbringer baby

[agile forge]

What kind of upsidedown fucked up heretical planet is Agripinaa anyway

[stiff glacier]

With left side of the skilltree

[agile forge]

should be exterminatused to oblivion

[shadow aurora]

Depends on the cod

[junior needle]

mw2 models were great back in yonder day but got gutted eventually

I haven't played any since that one

Except for zombies

[stiff glacier]

I love the rising storm 2 shotgun of onetaps to 150 meters

[gusty bison]

Agri sniper rifle begs to differ

:P

[shadow aurora]

Modern warfare one remake was dominated by one shotgun so hard it was unplayable

[junior needle]

We're talking about the agri revolver

[gusty bison]

Oh

Rip

[wanton dawn]

Cant have a good shooter without a shotgun that sucks at range