veteran-class

[tall torrent]

that is tragic

[bitter turtle]

yeah

lol

honestly its really not comparable to rashad at all

that's why I always describe itas

a knife with slightly better horde clear

but less mobility

[tall torrent]

I think it's just outclassed

it's playable but outclassed

knife 3 hits a crusher

[rigid pilot]

with max uncanny?

[tall torrent]

Yea

I have mercy killer & uncanny on mine

If u go riposte for crit chance u can also 3 shot crushers fairly consistently

I don’t have +carapace dmg on my knife

[frank basin]

How can you handle horde with knife when you have uncanny and mercy killer?

[tall torrent]

That’s the neat part, you don’t

[frank basin]

https://tenor.com/view/declared-incapable-waltuh-breaking-bad-walter-gif-26904382

[winter grove]

How do I determine good and bad rolls?

[warm swallow]

It depends on what stats blessings and the third things are

[bitter turtle]

actually

question

[warm swallow]

Its a very vague question ngl

[bitter turtle]

@tall torrent since u were talking about dclaw earlier

is maniac even good on it

you oneshot ragers regardless with parry

heavies kill flamers regardless

mutants take 2 headshots regardless

[torpid pier]

with every weapon check the dump stat and go with +70% on the others, then u gamba with blessings and perks hoping for minimum of 2 good ones so u can craft the other 2

[terse idol]

You can post your weapons if you think they're good or bad here

[torpid pier]

@winter grove

that is more general

some times u need to hit breakpoints

there is a mod that can make u play with loadout configs and check breakpoints before investing in a weapon

[tall torrent]

crit overhead heavy with +maniac can 1 shot mutant in the face

and pretty sure u can build for 2 heavy atk breakpoint for dreg ragers

[bitter turtle]

is there any other reason to take maniac

or rather

is there even anything else worth taking

besides maybe unyielding for boss dmg meme

[tall torrent]

needs 10% meleeor 5% melee + desperado

[torpid pier]

My process usually is decide what my melee/range weapon is missing > look for the weapon that would cover my weakness > test it out in loadout config mod for breakpoints,blessings and perks i need > try to get that weapon

[tall torrent]

meh tbh

[bitter turtle]

everything feels meh

i think you can 2 shot rager regardless if you h1 h1

with qq

i guess the crit 1s on mutant is nice

since mutants are a fucking pain if you miss the weakpoint

[tall torrent]

flak + maniac/elite/unarmored/unyielding

imo

[bitter turtle]

yeah ig

man

but it feels less like

all those are good choices

and more like there's no good choice so just pick w/e

lol

[tall torrent]

blessing wise
rampage + savage sweep/shred/skullcrusher

rampage + skullcrusher is very legit for DC7 because u can do L1/H1 > H2 > L3 > Push ATK > L3 for 4 consecutive strikedown moves

unfortunately hadron bricked my swords

[bitter turtle]

why 7 in particular

because it opens with the sweep?

for stagger

[tall torrent]

because 7 has the best single target

u can do 4 strikedowns in a row

this is exclusive to DC7

[bitter turtle]

l1 h1 l1 h1?

[tall torrent]

no

H2 > L3 > Push ATK > L3

[bitter turtle]

o

[tall torrent]

all strikedowns

DC7 also has the most complicated moveset in this game

I don’t think there’s a single other weapon with as many combos going on

[winter grove]

What's the max rating for the grey items again?

380?

[tall torrent]

Yea

[bitter turtle]

380 ya

and good thing

my guide is just skimming the surface lul

interesting though

maybe ill try it

[misty vigil]

i'm thinking about changing gloryhunter out to

[tall torrent]

I think the best possible DC7 is rampage + skullcrusher

I’m also biased and I really do think DC7 is the best DC sword (DC4 is easier to use tho)

[tall torrent]

That’s the fan-fire mag-dump revolver, surgical is less valuable

[misty vigil]

OH YEAH YOUR IGHT

[tall torrent]

Usually people take crucian roulette / point blank with that one

[misty vigil]

yeaht hat's my regular revolver 😄

[bitter turtle]

what does elite accomplish on dclaw btw

just general damage improvements across the board against groups when you're cleaving?

[misty vigil]

does this refer to right click

[bitter turtle]

Yes

ADSing basically

[misty vigil]

ty

[bitter turtle]

does not work with plasma

in case ur thinking about it

[misty vigil]

i knew that one sadly

[junior needle]

That's an oofer

Looks like you started with a 4/4 scuffer

[misty vigil]

bruh every blessing i roll. always terrifying barrage

you don't undertand how bad my luck is

always terrifying barrage..........

every weapon......

every class

[junior needle]

I'm pretty sure barrage is weighted to come up more often that other blessings

[misty vigil]

YES SAME

[junior needle]

Stam also seems to be weighted more heavily on weapons

[junior needle]

You got your rolls mixed up. 2a wants surgical/handcannon, agri revolver wants crucian/handcannon

Joined an auric heresy game by accident and by god, these yeeyee ass rolls

No respite/falter on a k12

[tall torrent]

Plasma gun:

+8% groaner, poxwalker dmg
+1.5 stamina
Volatile III
Shattering Impact III

[junior needle]

Oh yeah, weapon spec exists. If you’re going ws you don’t need surgical and go crucian

[bitter turtle]

i will die on the hill of surgical agri

[junior needle]

Look on the bright side, it’s still better better than a god rolled recon

[misty vigil]

yes

[junior needle]

You will die on that hill alright

[bitter turtle]

only if you crit

which is not guaranteed

because you run crucian

[junior needle]

That is a laspistol

All I need is a headshot

[bitter turtle]

what if im wearing carapace

🤔

[junior needle]

AH FUCK

RETREAT

[bitter turtle]

what combos do ppl run on chaxe btw

thunderous + bloodletter
slaughterer/headtaker + thrust

anything else?

is slaughterer/headtaker + thunderous/bloodletter a thing? you'd have to run carapace to kill crusher then im guessing

at least w/o stack

[misty vigil]

not surprised controller player quit on me just now.

[junior needle]

If you run thunderous/bloodletter

Your horde clear will be horrid

[bitter turtle]

ya i figure

i like bloodletter a lot tho

since you can cancel after the initial hit with a dodge lol

and the bleed still kills like half the elites

idk if its meme though

[misty vigil]

i love bloodletter

[bitter turtle]

honestly im at the part where im writing about the two weapons i barely used

chaxe and dclaw

any input would be nice lul

[misty vigil]

on the chaxe and dclaw?

[bitter turtle]

ye

i mean

i have basic understanding

but ye

only basic

[misty vigil]

in misison, don't got much feedback don't use too often

[bitter turtle]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/14ODLXP5sISxrcvXpaH1rXYTjDzHf0Ac243SZwqqg17M/edit?usp=sharing

pls feedback

[wanton dawn]

"Why headtaker on rashad mandatory ? Don't you already OS all trash with BM and proper perk ?"

Also caxe is basically rashad guide

[tall torrent]

Achlys is neat tho

Thrust BM I’m pretty sure can already hit bruiser breakpoints without additional investments

Antax is breakpoint nightmare for veteran

[wanton dawn]

Chainsword: i think there has been discussion on savage sweep vs ... shred wrath ? The one that increase cleave on hit

[tall torrent]

Devastating strike

[wanton dawn]

No, on hit, not on crit

[winter grove]

is chainaxe any good

[tall torrent]

Wrath

[wanton dawn]

Wrath

[tall torrent]

Wrath is good for CS13g

[wanton dawn]

Yeah. Cuz the problem with savage sweep is that it does not help rampage proc

Oh, those weapon were separated

[tall torrent]

However CS13g is just
Not that great lol

[wanton dawn]

Got confused for a second here

[junior needle]

oh whoops

[wanton dawn]

Cringe

[junior needle]

There we go, properly anonymized

https://tenor.com/view/addition-to-mycollection-more-collection-gif-14095863

As I was saying. Another addition to my recon cringe compilation.

[wanton dawn]

Eww, zealot

[torpid pier]

Zealot in my veteran chat?

[junior needle]

I'm not playing vet until they buff the guns I like

[wanton dawn]

Pretty sure zealot chat got calmer these days

[junior needle]

I'm on strike

[torpid pier]

Zealot chat always try their best to talk about anything else except darktide

[slow spade]

Recon user -> "weakspot rate: 8"

bruh

[torpid pier]

If u replace Zealot's chat with off-topic chat, doubt they will notice

[tall torrent]

It’s truly very funny that a Recon Lasgun with 9 small + 6 large ammo pickups somehow has less ranged kills than a Vraks7

[slow spade]

to be fair, they weren't even going for weakspots let alone crits :p

and somehow they had less melee damage with a Psword...

[wanton dawn]

I mean, that a pretty mid powersword

[bitter turtle]

lul

you can build the other combat xes thes ame way no?

[wanton dawn]

Sure, but you keep mentioning rashad in it

[bitter turtle]

damn

you're right

there we go

now we can pretend people use the ohter two

[wanton dawn]

[bitter turtle]

legitimately though if you have suggestions for it pls tell

i only use rashad anyway 😔

[wanton dawn]

My point on headtaker still stand

[bitter turtle]

its pretty hard to hit the unarmored one w/o headtaker no?

you have to have really good stats and take all the melee dmg nodes

[wanton dawn]

Sure, but you can hit it

[bitter turtle]

fine

ill change it to

nearly mandatory

what other options do ppl have anyway

i have a shred rashad actually

i hated it

lul

[wanton dawn]

Thunderous meme !

[bitter turtle]

is that actually good

[wanton dawn]

No

[bitter turtle]

good

i had a 80/80/80/80 thunderous one once

that was unsalvagble

[wanton dawn]

I wanna try it on kantrael shotgun

The dumpster fire build 🤡

[bitter turtle]

i tried

flechette kant earlier

it felt like killing things with extra steps

like instead of shooting something to death

what if i shot them

and waited 5 seconds

and then they die

[wanton dawn]

I think you need the increased cleave too, instead of the crit blessing

[bitter turtle]

i have manstopper

actually i tried both

i wish i could run all 3

[wanton dawn]

Manstopper+flechette

[bitter turtle]

tbh

i kinda leaned towards scattershot by th eend

half the time im not cleaing more than 3 anyway

[wanton dawn]

With deadshot

It is still bad though

[bitter turtle]

and even deadshot + 5% crit + opening salvo + base crit is still only 40%

need dat scattershot for reliability

but yeah it felt

idk

not like the worst thing ever

but so extra

halfway through the round

i started just shooting things normally

[wanton dawn]

It is still better than scattershot cuz this one does nothing on crit imo but arguable i guess

[bitter turtle]

with the normal ass shotgun shot

well

it does one thing on crit

inflict bleed, no?

[wanton dawn]

Yeah but cleave improve application

So dunno whats better

[bitter turtle]

yeah but adsing tightens the cone

it penetrates 3 naturally right

if you're deadshotting are you really hitting more than 3

with the spread tightened

[wanton dawn]

Not really into deep testing with kant though

[bitter turtle]

i just think teh entire build bleed meme is probably not worth in the first place

[wanton dawn]

Though thunderous does make shredder better

Like actual 50% hp on crushers with 2 nades

[bitter turtle]

on that topic i still need feedback for writing the chaxe section

is bloodletter thunderous a meme

i figure the most stable blessing combo is thrust slaughterer/headtaker

[bitter turtle]

and o ya i separated bc fuck 13

it goes in the naughty corner

seriously though I felt like it was one of the few where the markc hange legitimately makes one of the previous blessings bad

i tried testing the 13 in the past to proc savage and it fucking sugged

[junior needle]

I see silent trappers are still an issue

[torpid pier]

say it ain't so...

was really hoping they fixed it with the recent patch full of sound fixes :/

[junior needle]

Yep, just lost a game to one

Went ham into a horde to try and save two of my dudes

And bam, silent trapper instant net

[torpid pier]

damn that is one of the worst ways to lose a game

[junior needle]

Of course the shitters were entirely helpless so they didn't really deserve to win that one

Fucking trauma staff psyker than only uses his basic staff blast

[frank basin]

):

[faint beacon]

Ever since the Smoke Grenade buff I've been noticing more and more where I can get myself or teammates out of "getting fucked over by 40k gunnertide", cause holy shit its so nice to throw them down and tell the 20 Gunners to piss off

[frank basin]

You throw at your feet or at their feet?

[faint beacon]

Usually where we are advancing so we're in it

[frank basin]

I wondering can you throw in middle does it work blocking their LoS

[faint beacon]

It's saved a lot of could've been cheap sniper shots

I've noticed it happened once

So its possible, I'd say test

[frank basin]

And sniper?

[faint beacon]

But anyone says smokes are trash don't understand its extremely useful

for utility

[faint beacon]

Yes

[frank basin]

Yeah I still have smoke grenade on my commander

[faint beacon]

I've noticed with sniper as long as you aren't on the side edges

yes

Behind it or in it, they wont aim at you

[junior needle]

Yet another addition to the recon cringe compilation

He also didn't take VOC or survivalist

[bitter turtle]

no

that's another addition to the

lacerate knife compilation

[junior needle]

Why not both?

[bitter turtle]

at least the recon did 2x the dmg of the knife 😔

[junior needle]

It only took 7 small ammo, 4 large ammo, and an ammo crate charge

I did take 8 but like, I'm doing all the counter sniping

on sniper gauntlet

[wanton dawn]

One day I might take the recon in auric just to make fun of ya But I will have to play recon so truthfully I would only hurt myself

[sharp ember]

yay shocktrooper recon exists again

[junior needle]

I am always ready

It existed before, it just just half as effective

And now it's 2/5 as effective as patch 13

Instead of 1/5

[sharp ember]

so the buffed smoke grenades, they more effectively get shooters to chill out now? im afraid i haven’t hopped on lately for… reasons

[rigid pilot]

i actually played with a recono/devil claw chad veteran of 550 levels

[bitter turtle]

you know

i actually

did dclaw recon a few days ago

im only true level 330 tho

https://i.gyazo.com/2ee7116ad10fb79aeb4cbcc779c04242.jpg

lel

i got outdamaged tho

shoulda hosed more hordes

[wanton dawn]

Imagine getting trapped by a MARKED trapper, MARKED in FRONT of YOUR eyes, with NO other specialist around

The trapper that TRAPPED someone else 10s AGO

Its not even 11 am and i am already tired

[frank basin]

Lol 3 am here

No sleep

Bad habit

[torpid pier]

just played an auric maelstrom that felt easier than normal damnation......

felt super strange

even in terms of spawns

[wanton dawn]

at some point your teammate are the diff modifier

I once played a game in sedition, someone joined and litterally made thing more difficult by dragging the bots away from the scan, meaning I could not do crap without getting interrupted

[torpid pier]

from start to finish it was the same team and not a single person got downed, i thought when that happened the ai director gets angry and spawns ton of stuff but that never happened

like look at those spawn numbers, that was auric maelstrom lol

very weird

oh also it shows 1 person got rescued nvm, didn't see that

[wanton dawn]

yeah, that's a low damage one. But also it is 23 min so it means ppl where not wandering around aggroing every pack

Loot gremlins also makes game longer

[junior needle]

Those are small time ammo pickups

You gotta get like 14 small ammo

[winter grove]

Question

Is it only me being unlucky with ogryn players

[wanton dawn]

no

[winter grove]

Or it's a rule of thumb for them to stand right in my face whenever I use volley fire

Or when I am sniping out gunners

[wanton dawn]

That's how you know someone only plays ogryns

[winter grove]

Like

I don't meet that trouble when I play zealot or psyker

But when I do veteran or gun psyker

Oh boy it's very annoying

[wanton dawn]

The answer is to play a gun with lot of cleave

like plasma, revolver, or agri brauto

[winter grove]

Agri brauto?

[junior needle]

Oh excuse me, it was 12 small ammo and 6 large ammo

and 2 ammo crate charges

[winter grove]

Oh the AK

[winter grove]

I don't like the guns from the OP trio except for columnus but I keep it for gun psyker

[frank basin]

RPK

45 rounds when 80 ammo stats. RPK banana mag like 45 rounds

[winter grove]

Space AK = AK but better

duhhhh

[frank basin]

Ak like 30 round, rpk could have 30-40 round in box mag

Since agripinna barrel is longest resembles as rpk

[winter grove]

RPK is an AK anyway

just a little bit different

[wanton dawn]

Thunderous no longer applies to dot, sad day

[winter grove]

Speaking of AK autogun

Generally the heavy variant is picked right?

[junior needle]

You mean brautos?

Agri is still the favored variant

Haven’t tested the columnus brauto but graia is only like 50~ dps lower when braced at baseline

[low yacht]

Infantry Columnus though

That gun goes crazy.

[wanton dawn]

on single target ?

Cuz agri has 2 target cleave

[junior needle]

Yeah on single target

[frank basin]

I read the damage Graia brauto said 90

Was they worse before like 50 damage?

[wanton dawn]

yeah, they got buffed at some point

[frank basin]

Which is good for me

[umbral scaffold]

Anyone use helbores

[frank basin]

Some people yes

[umbral scaffold]

Seems I’m one of them

[frank basin]

Some person said here mk1 and mk2 good and mk3 bad

Just bayonet I think

[umbral scaffold]

I use the mk3 mostly because the stopping power is good

[frank basin]

And the bayonet suck?

[umbral scaffold]

It can one shot flamers and hounds

[frank basin]

They say mk 3 bayonet is slow

[umbral scaffold]

And basically every foot soldier except the yellow robed ones

Slow but powerful

[frank basin]

Can it one shot armor enemies like shooters

Or melee bruiser

[umbral scaffold]

It can one shot crushers if they have the right build

[frank basin]

I think not

They used to be have bug pair with limbsplitter

[umbral scaffold]

There’s a YouTube video out there that it’s kind of a montage

[frank basin]

Here discord server they say Darktide YouTube is bad

I means bad at build

There is recent of ragebait Darktide YouTuber

Being infamously

[umbral scaffold]

Eh well you get what you can that works to the best of your ability

I don’t have the build that does that but I can three tap a crusher

[winter grove]

I try to make use of helbore personally

I like the mechanic of it being melee and a ranged capable taking down carapace at ease

I use blue one since it uses less ammo, but I am not a darktide veteran so I can't say everything for sure

[wanton dawn]

I call this a "snort"

TBF the damage_scoreboard count overkill as damage

[umbral garnet]

I use the Mk2.

And I exclusively run my shovel with it.

One shotting crushers with a foldie. Mmmmm

[lilac eagle]

Wait what did they change about Pswords? They gave it free power cycler again?

[winter grove]

No it's more of like

You charge up

Do a hit

And charge up with different animation and different attack

Instead of resetting to first hit of combo

[lilac eagle]

Oooh interesting

[winter grove]

As far I know it should work with +2 power cycler

[lilac eagle]

I'll finally be able to SEE the other attack animations on Psword

[winter grove]

Not with +1 tho

[wanton dawn]

First combo is what happens now. 2nd combo is what happened before (now we need to do an animation cancel)

See the difference ?

[frank ether]

I watched one sloptide meatgrinder ytuber and now my youtube feed is full of it

[tiny summit]

Mk10 Laspistol with Weapon Specialist is nice.

[civic knot]

Whats the fastest way to do dreg killing contracts? any particular missions that have a lot of bruisers? Thats the best source of dreg kills, ive found

[wary rover]

Sometimes you can get lucky with a maelstrom mission

I had one only dreg no ammo pickups

So if you have melee dreg quest thats an option

[trim hemlock]

There is no such maelstrom modifier

The only faction-limited modifiers include Scabs

[zealous wyvern]

theyre just mixing up the factions

[late hatch]

https://medal.tv/games/warhammer-40000-darktide/clips/1XrlGKpsPFmGVQ/d1337ZK0royV?invite=cr-MSxXZGosMjA1MTY1MjMzLA

dancing poxburster

[agile forge]

idk if it's still like this, but it used to be that missions would bias towards either dregs or scabs

so if you start a mission and it's oops all scabs, you could just drop and change

[wary rover]

I can never remember what is what lol

But you're right

[pearl granite]

how do i fix this shovel / make it better?

[gusty bison]

Swap All or Nothing for Uncanny Strike

Or well

Hum

🤔

Well the meta is Uncanny + Thrust/Deci

but AoN might work?

[terse idol]

Not crazy on all or nothing

But it couuld

Deci's just better more consistent imo

[viscid sparrow]

I myself run Skullcrusher on my shovel, because I legit did not realize Deci would be better before I had spent both swap uses...

tbf my shovel does work well enough to kill hordes and it can also kill single targets easily as well, its just that I only now know Deci to be better thanks to @terse idol

I think I actually might still have my earlier shovel, which has weaker stats but does have both swaps used on blessings so I could technically replace Skullcrusher with Deci on the weaker shovel...

oof, I seem to lack Deci from my earned blessings selection...

welp, time to grind shovels for Deci 3-4...

[fresh saddle]

Decimator is great, yes

I like stacking +25% vs Infested and +25% vs Unarmored, because I use my Shovel to mainly horde clear but that's just me

[timid otter]

The standard issue shovel kinda sucks outside horde clear.

You can try to make it work outside of that but i think its just a waste of blessings, perks.

The weapon will still remain unremarkable.

[fresh saddle]

it's my primary melee, even over the flip-axe marks

something about it has always felt comfortable for me

i think it's the consistent heavy sweeps

and good dodges/blocks?

[idle swallow]

The MkVII shovel has easy side to side heavies and the flip mode so its been my mainstay, I like it a lot

I do uncanny/all or nothing cuz I'm a deadshot freak and I hate waiting for decimator stacks to build

[gray finch]

what change here ?>

[wanton dawn]

We got this from @bitter turtle on the matter https://docs.google.com/document/d/14ODLXP5sISxrcvXpaH1rXYTjDzHf0Ac243SZwqqg17M/edit

[timid otter]

I think bullet points can work for blessing/perk descriptions but its also interesting to explain the properties of the weapon itself espically in tech if it has any.

I also find that the perks themselves are downright harmful in recommendations

Way too many maniac recommendations for weapons that even dont need it.

Ex chain swords

Same with shovels.

Even chain axes, devils claw dont have a huge need for maniac.

[wanton dawn]

Well, I am not looking at the whole document, just the thing that interest me I cant judge on shovel nor chsword. A bit more for dclaw

[timid otter]

Ye i tested devils claw pretty recently

I dont think maniac adds any new breakpoints that are actually reasonable to trigger

You still will 2 shot a mutant on headshots without manaics or with it.

Its effectively a dead perk.

[coral bloom]

I run the old chainaxe with unarmored / infested and brittle / bleed.
Clears trash with heavy, hurts any single target with rev attack.
Quite liking it so far.

This is on vet. Have slaughter / headtaker axes and prefer this to them. Dont really need stacks for trash clear and I lose stacks if I have to kill with ranged.

[bronze umbra]

Lol
The Emperor liked me with this one

[coral bloom]

Standard shovel has great mobility and decent block afaik. The stagger to interrupt ragers is useful.
I like the weakspot dmg on push, bonks hordes well with sweeping heavies.
Underrated as a defensive backup for range focused vet imo

[timid otter]

Well i guess its mostly to complient that document for its structure, but the information right now is not accurate.

One conudrum actually to solve in structure is how to factor in talents into breakpoints.

Veteran has way more talents affecting BPS then the majority of classes.

Theres not either easy to follow guidelines for even a vet melee build that could possibly drop 10% melee damage.

[wanton dawn]

IMO you should only factor the passive dmg increase

[timid otter]

passive?

[wanton dawn]

the stats node and the weakspot one

Also the aura

[timid otter]

15% elites is important.

[wanton dawn]

Sure, but then it depends what's your target are

Should probably build a standard melee and standard ranged build

and goes from here

[timid otter]

Pretty much

Im also just considering writing a program rather then anything else.

Psykanium testing is annoying, time consuming

It would be far easier to put in the values for the weapon, then state if a talent is on or not.

Then have it automatically calculate from that what the final damage value is.

[wanton dawn]

This for ranged for instance

[coral bloom]

Does elites include specialists?

[timid otter]

no

[wanton dawn]

maybe this for melee ?

9 point left

[coral bloom]

This has a bunch of free points right?

ah 😛

[wanton dawn]

Yeah, the goal is to make a "standard" for bp calculation

[timid otter]

Admitely i already did mostly calcuations for differnent builds in terms of BPS

But its hard thereafter to actually validate the bps, due to differnent testing forms.

It would also be a mess to write out every single combination in how it impacts eachother.

[wanton dawn]

This part specifically is really hard to go without me think

[timid otter]

I think ill work on a program to more easier to do the testing with.

[wanton dawn]

At some point you calculate IF you don't need to pick specific talent

For instance a god roll rashad might skip some talent, and might even be able to skip flak

[timid otter]

Ye screw testing for modifers right now

[coral bloom]

Depends. Longshot / elite and some other things gave me really nice breakpoints on mk12 lasgun.
I dont notice at all as much of a difference with the mk9 headhunter I use atm so dropping them didnt really hurt. Its a nice weapon for melee / support vet.

[timid otter]

That i completley skipped doing.

[wanton dawn]

longshot introduce a range modifier and you really don't want to go that path

[coral bloom]

How do you mean?

Of you mean testing it out extensively? 😛

[wanton dawn]

Wanna test this ?

At this point you are no longer in the realm of general advice

And you are in luck because columnus is not a breakpoint gun but a DPS gun

[coral bloom]

Depends on how minute you want to be about it.
But for killing targets at range, some kinda general 20m, 30m, 40m or whatever I dont mind. Im not going to be pulling out my gun to shoot at a target within melee range so.

But yeah for your purposes of putting in loads of work to map bps out, leaving out longshot makes sense for sure

[serene bough]

I take longshot for my ilas but honestly I never notice it's impact

[timid otter]

My thought process is mostly to have a program where you put weakspot damage, body damage into and then have bools that can be put on whether they are true or false for talents.

[serene bough]

It is extra damage though so I won't turn it down

[terse idol]

Well to be fair the ciag works from like 5m to 30m

[coral bloom]

IF you however settled for I want gun X already, is longshot of benefit to me or not? Then testing that personally isnt a very big timesink at that point

[terse idol]

Or I should say 0m

[wanton dawn]

longshot is beneficial in general

It is an easy grab

[terse idol]

Yeah

[white minnow]

maybe something that summarizes it, like adding up the hits-to-kill for enemies (and weighting it in some way) and using that to rank a particular permutation of talents/perks/blessings if you really want to make it more automatic

[terse idol]

It does reduce damage fall off so

[coral bloom]

I think its extra interesting with lasguns since you gain alot of range scaling at that point

[serene bough]

In general it's just a safe grab, either increases damage for long ranged weapons or reduces damage fall off for mid/short ranged weapons

[terse idol]

Lasguns have inverse damage drop off

So its just pretty good in general

[wanton dawn]

The problem with longshot is that if you take it into account you need to factor a ton more "inconsistent" dmg source

So it becomes a mess

[serene bough]

I wouldnt include it in any breakpoint test

I dont like the idea of needing to be at a specific range to hit a certain breakpoint

I just check it in and forget about it

[wanton dawn]

I would specify if relevant in specific case against ranged elite

[coral bloom]

No, include it! And do the psyker elite aura, veteran damage aura! You know you want to

[terse idol]

Okay to be fair!

I wouldn't trust BP to make up like above 10% damage for a BP

But 5% fire team can be relevant very rarely

[wanton dawn]

For instance: bolter sometimes cannot kill sniper at close range but it has reverse falloff

[terse idol]

I think it's better to factor in consistent damage sources

[serene bough]

I'll only run fireteam if there's a second vet with survivalist already

[coral bloom]

Fire team would be great if survivalist wasnt awesome. Seems awful similar to executioner stance vs shout that. Vet moments.

[serene bough]

Its nice to have extra damage for no effort or thinking but it's definitely not prioritized in order for my build to function

[terse idol]

Shout is OP

Cannot compare tp exe

Same as survivalist

[serene bough]

Yeah survivalist is too potent

[terse idol]

Rare times fire team will actually meet a BP

And it's not too bad on automatic weapons

[serene bough]

Damage increases are a slippery slope, increase the buff too much and it'll become mandatory

Kind of why I prefer marksman focus the way it is

[agile forge]

Fuckin love marksman focus

So bad yet so good

It's like Disrupt Destiny only somehow less reliable

[coral bloom]

Ive really enjoyed exe stance to clear out huge packs of gunners and generic ranged trash. Its very useful in such situations

[serene bough]

Exec is not a bad damage buff per se but it's nowhere close to the power of VoC and utility of infil

Not to mention it's talent tax

[coral bloom]

Yeah a nice buff, if it needs one would be to include some of the talents in the base package perhaps.
Otherwise 25% dmg and 25% weakspot is pretty noticeable.

Not to mention the accuracy buffs

[agile forge]

I should try it in my MF CIAG build tbh

It's already discount gunker

[coral bloom]

I ran it for a while with the refresh and ranged trash hightlight + hh mk9. Worked out just fine in maelstrom and its very spammable. Maybe more of a skill issue in comparison to shout than anything else.

[timid otter]

Im thinking something like this

With multiple if statements checking if it is true or not.

[tiny summit]

Satisfying to keep. Kinda fucking dogshit when I could probably just use other stuff.

[serene bough]

I like the idea of abilities that reward you for landing headshots

[tiny summit]

It's not a "bad" dmg bonus but also the already good weapons don't need it. Like how others say it feels like "win harder" skill. Power balance is all over the place for us and a bit too weighed on our end but I also think it's valid when the director throws X bullshit at the player

[civic knot]

Thats nifty!

[coral bloom]

Everything doesnt have to have the same skill entry or ceiling or function.
Agree about win harder being something to think about when making builds in general.
On the flip side unless team has a bubble psyker, one of the more common wipe scenarios I encounter is massed gunners and exe can be built to counter that well.

[serene bough]

Yeah, a lot of weapons used to require exec to be viable, now many are viable without it

[civic knot]

get tactical awareness. always

[wanton dawn]

Thats kinda besides the point

[civic knot]

ah my bad

thought u wanted advice

[tiny summit]

It doesn't but also exe lacks some type of oomph or VoC as it stands is just a no-brainer "will always be good" in this design of game. AoE stagger restoring team toughness and over toughness. As opposed to Exe being "oh here's some ok dmg bonus to weapons that can function very well without it"

I get personal satisfaction out of clearing an entire room of highlights and I like shooting. Dunno what exactly Exe needs to stand as a equal option.

I think removing range requirements on talents during exe would be cool

But that may just me spittballing at wanting to juice Exe because it's what I mainly play

[coral bloom]

Oh like youre completely right. VoC is never bad to have and just very strong, easy to use.
But if you want executioner stance to reach the same kind of generic "always strong, easy to use" and its not already good enough with 25% weakspot 25% dmg + accuracy + spotting, what would it need? 8m aoe knockback + higher damage? Like what? Delete bosses in a few seconds? Would this be good gameplay?
Its already a skill that is very noticeable powerspike to use.

[agile forge]

It's one of those awkward design choices where it pretends to be for slow firing marksman weapons

But promotes rapid fire

[hollow ibex]

exec stance could use some quality of life

[coral bloom]

I think the talent sink point would be nice, bake in the refresh into it or smth. Just freeing up one point would be nice

[tiny summit]

One thing that would be nice is a rebalance on duration and refreshes and maybe node changes. 5s against a monstronsity w/o specific weapons is like "woo...I guess".

[coral bloom]

Yeah 5s is quite insignificant like that, agreed

[tiny summit]

Exe 🤝 MF : automatics baby!

[agile forge]

Given that VoC is a 2 point wonder

Under a talent you were gonna take anyway

And then drops you in the middle

And Veteran's biggest problem is Too Fucking Many Nodes For Fucks Sake

[tiny summit]

Excuse me Big E, more nodes please

Laspistol and MF is pretty nice

[slow spade]

We should go back to 100+ node Vet 💪

Give me the talent stick back

[frank ether]

mobility plays a large role

faster firing guns are also usually faster moving high stamina guns

[tiny summit]

Laspistol and CIAG go brrr

[agile forge]

Accatran laspistol is just a machine pistol with a broken trigger tbh

no idea about kantrael, haven't tried it

I hear it's an MGXII with worse normal bodyshots and better crits and weakspots?

[coral bloom]

Btw how did patch change laspistol? I noticed prepatch RoF while adsing with my mark10 was alot faster. Is that removed now?

[frank ether]

yes, gone

[tiny summit]

Tried the mk10 with weapon specialist. I like the increased fire rate on swap

[vivid silo]

The reasons ES is overshadowed is threefold for me:

1. Gold toughness is crazy strong since it can prevent any HP damage

2. VoC allows a much more relaxed mindset since you have a get out of jail free card

3. Using ES often makes me feel bad since I fear I make the game too boring for my teammates.

[coral bloom]

Agree points 1 and 2. Im not sure teammates find it boring to have someone blap annoying specialists, elites and ranged though. At least I appreciate that if I play lets say ogryn.

[vivid silo]

Aye I know rationally that a lot of people dont mind, its probably mostly a mental thing for me.

[frank ether]

Its more so that ES is not that good

[vivid silo]

Its incredible in the hands of a good player. You literally wont be seeing an elite/specialist because I will have killed them before they even come into view, thanks to the wallhacking aspect.

[idle swallow]

I've only ever liked it with bolter

[tiny summit]

Then is that the skill being amazing vs say someone with a vraks7 or plasma just seeing the enemies and 1 tapping them already w/o Exe.

[frank ether]

incredible player who needs %25 more ranged damage to kill things okae

its like only ever relevant for some guns that don't hit breakpoints

[tiny summit]

I personally like my own mini game of keeping the buff rolling. Considering the balance of weapons right now, they power crept into Exe being mostly redundant

[frank ether]

I'm so incredible at the game I need damage steriod and a wallhack to shoot my gun, oh also I'm not allowed to use my melee because I'm good at the game like that

I mean no other class needs it to shoot g uns

so why should vet

Its probably a good thing

[frank ether]

I mean in a way I agree with you

[coral bloom]

Its also more weakspot damage.
Weird takes

[agile yew]

Now give me +2 energised hits pls

[frank ether]

Its a weird take to say exec is an elite player ult

because I see you all

you're all terrible with it

[agile yew]

😭

[frank ether]

I had 600 hours playing this and the number of exec players that kept it up past 10 seconds is like

under %10

the moment someone else competes with shooting your ''I'm so good at the game'' fantasy ends

[toxic leaf]

i dont understand the purpose of it, other than wallhacks, because any vet with a zarona or plasma can already point and click at the taller-than-the-rest-of-the-horde bombers, flamers, et cetera, or the glint of a sniper

vs having shout that just trivializes content

[tiny summit]

So it is a "higher skill floor" skill it can at the same time be kinda meh.

[frank ether]

the node that gives the wallhack to friendlies would be really strong but it also directly contributes to teammates stealing your ultimate from you

so oxymoron

[toxic leaf]

like there is not one time i have thought, many es would have really helped here vs thinking, if only this fucking vet had shout

which is fine, play how you want to

im not your real dad

[tiny summit]

If you need your vet to have shout you never deserved it

[toxic leaf]

lol

if you need your vet to have ammo aura and shout, consider not sucking at the game

[tiny summit]

TRUE

[wanton dawn]

I got flamed for not having ammo aura last game

[frank ether]

yea I don't ever tell people they suck with ES while playing because I don't want everyone to run the same boring ass voc setup

its cool that people diversity and play interesting ( and usually shitty) builds

variety is fun

[wanton dawn]

Dude was padding his damage with kickback

[tiny summit]

But I like shooting so I take survivalist because who doesn't like free ammo from the warp

[wanton dawn]

I was in lobby, I saw the 2 shroudfield zealot and I was like "...I am not taking my ranged build"

[frank ether]

lmao

[toxic leaf]

whenever im not playing vet, i just beg for a vet that can snipe out specialists, i dont care what they use, as long as they are good at killing snipers and bombers

[tiny summit]

2 shroudfield zealots. They both rush, aggro the crusher party, die 30m away from the team, blame everyone else

[toxic leaf]

almost any fail i have these days in histg matches is because of snipers and bombers

[frank ether]

vet is no longer the special hunter class

[umbral garnet]

Survivalist and VoC is two sides of a coin. Shit players use it to compensate for their selfish lack of ammo economy and toughness management while great players can make it absolutely incredible and a life-saving tool.

[frank ether]

its not that game anymore

9 times out of 10 you'll get a voc hybrid vet

[tiny summit]

Considering the balance of weapons...everyone is a special hunter

[wanton dawn]

Game like the one I got is the reason why survivalist should be removed from the game

[toxic leaf]

they just have the best tools to do it with revolver or plasma, which one tap all those specialists and bonus points to the plasma for doing ti behind cover

[frank ether]

what if I don't want to play revolver/plasma?

[toxic leaf]

then you dont have to

that doesnt make me any less sadge about it

[umbral garnet]

True.

[toxic leaf]

its one of those things, yo9u know specing it will make your match easier but its boring and i understand

[frank ether]

its like two overpowered guns you give example to

one of which you can use on zealot/psyker btw

[coral bloom]

Cant go wrong with the umpteenth columnus vet magdumping into trashhordes telling me HH rifles are bad gamers

[tiny summit]

It's the bell curve meme. Besides variety and ego it's like "I just run VoC/Surv"

[frank ether]

nothing stops you from shooting stuff back with a columnus/revolver on any of the human classes

perfectly capable

hell scrier gaze is literally better ES

[umbral garnet]

Yes.

[frank ether]

you just don't get the wallhack

which is fine for all but most niche cases

[vivid silo]

The skill being amazing is the part that I can do it before someone else without the skill even has seen the enemy. And you can say whatever you want about the Plasma, Ive been capable of it for a long time before it became meta.

[wanton dawn]

The problem about VoC/Surv is that other ppl expect you to play it

[vivid silo]

Why are you focusing on the ranged damage boost? Thats the worst thing about the ability, its the wallhacking thats amazing.

[tiny summit]

Also true but they can eat a dick

[umbral garnet]

Some Zealots build their ammo dumping builds around the expectation there's a Surv vet.

Fuck those guys

Have ammo dicipline.

Piece of shit.

[tiny summit]

Fuck you. You don't own me!

[wanton dawn]

Also notice that whenever ppl play an ammo dump build, they will be last in boss damage. In monstro maelstrum mod

So yeah, I will care when i care

[umbral garnet]

Me with my Bolter 😳

[coral bloom]

Nah, you are supposed to follow them around, somehow keep up with the movespeed build and rez them when they inevitably get netted and go down. Its your fault for them running away.

Its a team game after all.

[toxic leaf]

yea like you can build however you want, voc/shout/(plasma/revolver) just indisputably makes any match easier before youve seen your 3 allies. but im not autistic so im not gonna screech in team chat about suboptimal builds because grey weapons can win histg missions at this point

[umbral garnet]

This made me turn into an alcoholic for a second reading this.

[wanton dawn]

Anyway, he had no excuse he saw my aura in lobby

[toxic leaf]

i will admit though, sometimes i see that ammo aura vet join when im on ogryn and i switch my build to pbb stubber because huhuhuhu

[tiny summit]

Someone got downed. Room started getting swarmed with gunners. Dropped smoke in front of the downed ally. The SHIELD OGRYN is telling me to not throw smokes

[wanton dawn]

Its fine to do that. But again, it is mostly about taking 15 minutes to realize you arent playing with an ammo vet

And going all kickback in trashmob along the way

[umbral scaffold]

I think they should buff the other 2 auras if they want it to be competitive with survivalist. Why reasonably take dmg aura if more ammo will allow you to continue to do more ranged dmg

[tiny summit]

Gonna need a big buff to make them look better than free ammo

[wanton dawn]

One thing about scoreboard is that I noticed what kind of playstyle give you the most damage. And it is not good gameplay

[umbral garnet]

+50 percent movement speed and +25percent damage flat

:)))

[wanton dawn]

You just run around as fast as possible with high cleave gun

[tiny summit]

Either delete it or bake the base version into all auras at this point

[toxic leaf]

i dont think thats th right move because ammo aura is wtf busted

you remove power outliers, you dont buff to their level

[umbral scaffold]

1% ammo gained from killing elites and specialists is not insane have you played any other shooter?

[toxic leaf]

the vet other auras are almost right in line with every other aura in teh game, other than maybe CDR

[wanton dawn]

Survivalist should not be an aura. Simple as that

[tiny summit]

Or smooth it out by nerfing it to scavenger level only for all 3

[toxic leaf]

survivalist is just way too good

[toxic leaf]

have you played this shooter?

[umbral scaffold]

1% ammo from killing shooters would be insane sure but you have to kill a certain type of enemy to get ammo

[toxic leaf]

how can you say infinite ammo for the pbb stubber ogryn is not insane lol

infinite ammo for your plasma gun one shotting all specials, not insane

[umbral garnet]

High Intesnity gauntlet spawning gunners basically at the same rate as normal shooters

[tiny summit]

Just simply give everyone their own ammo return off melee elite/special kill

[toxic leaf]

ammo economy is a thing in non ammo aura matches

[coral bloom]

Rumbler ogryn with and without survivalist. It just completely changes the usecase. No other aura does that in such a way.

[wanton dawn]

No other aura is as game wrapping as survivalist

[umbral scaffold]

I’m gonna double down. Give 1% ammo if you kill a shooter that matches your weapon type. You kill a scab shooter with a lasgun? You take their ammo. Dreg stalker with an autogun? You take their ammo too

[wanton dawn]

And it has been the case since the beta

[tiny summit]

Not really a "certain type" of enemy when the higher the difficulty the more those enemies are just more enemies

[toxic leaf]

the vet's other two auras are on the level of every other aura in teh game, too. its just ammo aura that is warping

you remove it and you've fixed the issue withotu causing huge power creep

[wanton dawn]

I have game with more than 300 elite and special kills. That's 300% ammo regen

[coral bloom]

5% general damage is really good. It just cant compare

[umbral garnet]

Great for breakpoints.

Mmmm, sapper shovel crusher one shot

[wanton dawn]

In any case, I am hoping survivalist eventually get booted out

[tiny summit]

But removing would cause an uproar that would have to be remedied or subdued by a near equal change in ammo drops throughout a map

[wanton dawn]

So we can play without being flamed by an ogryn that does not watch his ammo consumption

[umbral garnet]

Survivalist has just spoiled everyone.

[coral bloom]

I like survivalist 😦 more ammo is fun to me. Fun having rumbler buddies

[toxic leaf]

there is a whole maelstrom modifier of no ammo pickups and an ammo aura vet with revolver can go through the entire mission dumping on the crushers and maulers with infinite ammo

[coral bloom]

Its a pve game, let it be an optional pickup and OP if so. Who cares.

As long as they dont balance around it being mandatory.

[wanton dawn]

It is not optional if your team expect you to have it

[toxic leaf]

yea its become expectations that vets have ammo aura, even i get annoyed when i dont see it because its just like why

[coral bloom]

That is a problem for the team tbf

[tiny summit]

Survivalist isn't mandatory. It's only socially/ease of use "mandatory"

[umbral garnet]

Yeah, it's optional, but when you're absolutely FLAMED for not having it, that's the community's issue.

[coral bloom]

I hate having stealth vets or zealots in my team but I dont give them shit about it

[umbral garnet]

SPOILED, ALL OF YOU

DAMN ZEALOTS

[wanton dawn]

Well, I got shit about it

[tiny summit]

The game spoiled people so less of a community issue. Fatshark made their bed when they made it

[toxic leaf]

nobody should give anyone any shit for any build they run

except vets not using ammo aura in the no ammo maelstrom, and bringing a bolter

[umbral scaffold]

Except for people who stealth their way out of coherency constantly

[toxic leaf]

because i gave that guy shit

[umbral garnet]

True, I was pretty generalising. But yes, everyone has some degree of fault.

[wanton dawn]

Survivalist in no ammo maelstrom IS a problem

It is fun. It is a problem

[coral bloom]

Ive had several player give me shit for running mk9 HH "columnus so much better huhr duhr".
Proceeds to magdump trash, die more, kill less specials / elites and somehow get similar or less damage.
This is where ignoring people is useful.

[wide pike]

lay off us bolter mains

[umbral scaffold]

Make bolter great again

[wide pike]

agreed, it should NOT be that heavy

[toxic leaf]

nothing wrong with using the bolter, im just saying dont use it in a no ammo mod map

[wide pike]

and make reload faster

[wanton dawn]

bolter without survivalist is not good, bolter is not good in no ammo and not taking surv in no ammo is kinda throwing

[umbral garnet]

It is pretty funny when a dogshit dude mocks you for making an off-meta build and yet you make it work.

[umbral scaffold]

Remove the priming animation and make it the same swap speed as plasma

[wide pike]

oh i misread, i run ammo when boltering so we cool

[toxic leaf]

yea its perfectly illustrative of how ammo aura warps the game, because this mod makes that map mod free for better rewards lol

[umbral scaffold]

You don’t need to pull the bolt back every time you whip out a gun

[coral bloom]

It starts funny but when its becoming a pattern its getting dark funny borderline offputting

[tiny summit]

Taking my smokes into mostly melee

[umbral garnet]

Yes.

[wide pike]

you do
source?:
i like the reload sounds

[umbral scaffold]

The gun is ass to use and you get KER CHUNK from reloading anyways

[wide pike]

more is better

but yeah

[wanton dawn]

In any case, I cannot understand relying on someone else build to make mine's work

[umbral garnet]

I cannot stress enough how many times the pull-out time for a bolter has fucked me sideways.

[wanton dawn]

It is offputting to me

[umbral garnet]

Just this.

Yeah.

[wanton dawn]

Especially in pubs

[toxic leaf]

honestly, i think this is a big problem for ogryns because ogryn guns other than kickback are wildly ammo inefficient and have small capacities

[wide pike]

i just use krack grenades and command if no ones build synergizes

[wide pike]

the spread is awful

[umbral scaffold]

An ogryn without sah is nothing

[wanton dawn]

Sure, but I don't wanna be an ammo bag for someone padding his scoreboard with his kickback

[toxic leaf]

well that guy sucks

but im basically always running kickback because ive tried using other guns and not having a vet just makes those runs more difficult

[wide pike]

but an ogryn with 3 ogryns is everything

and MORE

[umbral scaffold]

As long as they put all 4 brain cells to use

[wide pike]

all run rock and bull charge

no monster shall prosper

[tiny summit]

I still like using the base shovel and stunlocking pogryns and chaos spawns

[umbral scaffold]

Chaos spawns get turned into spawns because nurgle had foreseen their fate of dying to 4 Ogryns with rock and rush

This is canon

[tiny summit]

"After you brother" as you take turns bull rushing into the monstro

[umbral garnet]

I love my Sapper too much.

[tall torrent]

it's coming along nicely (?)

[umbral scaffold]

There’s a suspicious package at work one thumbs up and I shake it violently

[wide pike]

:SAH, WHAT SHALL WE DO? SAH!

Yes king!

[umbral garnet]

TO ME! GRIND THEM DOWN

[wide pike]

FOR THE GOLDEN FRAGGIN THRONE

[umbral garnet]

WEAPONS UP, DRIVE EM BACK

[wide pike]

22 COMBAT STANCE

[umbral garnet]

I love the deliveries.

[wide pike]

I HATE LIVING IN A SHITHOLE

CALLED BIRMIGHAM

He sounds just like him

[umbral scaffold]

I have 600 or so hours in Darktide this game still gives me goosebumps

When immortal imperium is playing and you yell out for your god in a desperate fight

[umbral garnet]

I'M SICK AND TIRED OF THESE FRAGGING HERETICS IN THIS FRAGGING SHITHOLE

[wide pike]

Precisely

I’m willing to cut nurgle slack though because I think kugath is cool

“Best” chaos faction by far

But that’s not saying much

💀

[umbral scaffold]

Nuhuh khorne is better

[umbral garnet]

BLOOD FOR THE EMPEROOOOR, SKULLS FOR THE GOLDEN THRONE

[umbral scaffold]

Nurgle is the discord mod god

[frank ether]

kickback is silly, I refuse to use it

even without survivalist it still stands out as a silly weapon

[umbral scaffold]

Aren’t weapons like kickback kinda poop with survivalist anyways

Since they have a tiny ammo pool and won’t get a full 1% of ammo with a single kill

[tiny summit]

When auric is HI at base, the return for a single shot doing so much is ridiculous

Let ogryn shoot more? It's gonna be good

[idle swallow]

Need more lights out in mah aurics, wanna feel the spookzone more

[crimson pebble]

Are the fold shovels or axe generally better

[umbral scaffold]

Fold shovels

A grey mk 7 shovel can clear auric maelstrom, axes rely on blessings

[tall torrent]

if u have resources to spare, combat axes (Rashad Mk2 specifically)

[midnight totem]

ugh

got two great 379 and 378 revolvers and a 379 power sword

bricked all of them

life is pain

[crimson pebble]

The two classes i have shovel w rn are laspistol and braced autogun which gun do you think would work better w axe

[midnight totem]

brauto

[tall torrent]

either can work, I prefer laspistol tho

[crimson pebble]

Also are the tactical axes just a complete write off in comparison to reg axe or

[tall torrent]

combat axe usually needs some specific +melee dmg talents

[tall torrent]

they're playable but outclassed by combat axes in almost every way

and they don't perform nearly as good as knife if ur just looking for speed

[crimson pebble]

Iv still never tried knife need to see what its about

[umbral garnet]

Fold shovels

[junior needle]

Knives are better on zealot imo but you can get some good usage with some right side talents

[modest elk]

So...I'm newer to get and def wanna go more shotgun and shovel

Is that a valid play style or what

At the same time I feel like I could do shotgun evis on zealot and that would be better idfk

[junior needle]

Shotguns are pretty meme atm

Revolver tends to do their job much better

And you know, plasma

[timid otter]

Ok i made a program that can actually calculate damage with talents, perks.

The main limitation is that i need to see this page

[modest elk]

Oh 😦 so shotgun isn't really worth it?

[timid otter]

Blessings havent been added to it yet either in being able to calculate how they affect BPS.

[junior needle]

You can try them out but the general consensus is that they aren't explicitly bad, just not exactly good either.

Mediocre

[hollow ibex]

eh they're good enough

and they're fun

[junior needle]

I did not think they were fun, personally

[idle swallow]

I had some fun goofin with the lawbringer alt shot and scattershot/flechette or manstopper

It wasn't mega effective but it was fun for a bit

[junior needle]

The meme builds were the most fun

[modest elk]

I think maybe zealot is more my play style I wanna use melee and guns kinda equally

I like melee A L O T

[junior needle]

Zealot is mostly melee and your gun is a sidearm

It’s very good in melee though

[idle swallow]

zealot or ogryn is for melee lovers, they get the most juice from talents

[tall torrent]

first keystone page done

[idle swallow]

wow I can't believe you say camouflage is niche I crab walked the entire map and I got so much value it was so powerful

[tall torrent]

[bitter turtle]

You can do wep specialist

[umbral scaffold]

kentrael XII has hitreg.....

[tall torrent]

rashad mk2 combat axe
martyrdom + sustained assault
casually gain +57~65% melee dmg with +26~50% melee atk speed (martyrdom + faithful frenzy + fury)

it's one of the most fun ways u can play melee in this game

[modest elk]

Thanks I'll check all of this out

I'm all over the place lately with darktide can't commit to a class or build

[umbral granite]

Brunt gave me a good sword... lets see how badly hadron messes it up

[frank basin]

🙏

[junior needle]

May want to mention that rashad can be a pain to build. Also that marty takes some knowhow to not mess up

[umbral granite]

Ran out of plasteel at purple

[frank basin]

Looks little brickery

[umbral granite]

If the next blessing is power cycler 4, i can just swap the perks out

IF

[frank basin]

I assume is over

Go play Damnation and come back

[junior needle]

You’d want to change slaughter out if you did

Native cycler is hard to come by and there’s a big performance disparity between slaughter and brudal

Keeping the second blessing option open also lets you futureproof to a degree

[umbral granite]

Welp... time to play heresy with randoms, since my luck with damnation randoms has been "Knife zealots who don't know what they are doing and psykers that overestimate their durability" today

[junior needle]

Oh yeah, good knife zealots are hard to come by

I say this as someone exclusively playing knife zealot currently

If you see flesh tearer/lacerate, odds are the player is not very good

[winter grove]

What about the ogryns that perfectly block your every shot with their massive body

[junior needle]

Just use a gun that goes through them

[idle swallow]

Pretty much, gave up on the infantry Lasguns in pubs cuz of that

[winter grove]

Meanwhile I am just lucky to no have ogryns in pubs

But if get one then gg

[junior needle]

Gave up on infantry lasguns because their recoil is incredibly annoying

[hollow ibex]

could use the mk12 instead, less annoying recoil

[junior needle]

Giving laser guns recoil is always a mistake

[umbral granite]

The ogryns i run into on damnation either know how to avoid blocking their teamates, or die so many times before the halfway-mark that they end up quitting.

There has yet to be an in between

[terse idol]

That's fine

[umbral scaffold]

Plasma through them

[terse idol]

Because it's not the Ogryn's job to move out of the way
all I can say is, if the Ogryn is in front of you, everything in front of that Ogryn is no longer your problem

If he' takes too much heat he'll move

[frank basin]

Unless he’s a slab shield

[hollow ibex]

nah if i'm an ogryn, i try to be conscious of my teammates firing lanes

it's just a common courtesy

or maybe not so common

[terse idol]

Eh

That's fine

[hollow ibex]

based on the ogryns i've seen

[frank basin]

Slab shield ogryn is frontliner

[hollow ibex]

if it's down a narrow hallway and the team is magdumping down my back though

[frank basin]

Because they just block it

[hollow ibex]

that's not my problem

[frank basin]

Ogryn range weapon is quite inaccurate (for stubbers) they would go front shoot it

[winter grove]

I do imagine if darktide had friendly fire just like vermintide then quickly it would be a problem

[frank basin]

Rumbler

That end it quick

[tall torrent]

Helbore lasguns (all)
Agripinaa Mk1 infantry autogun
Agripinaa Mk8 braced autogun
Plasma gun
Zarona Mk2a quickdraw stub revolver
Boltgun

These will all cleave through friendly Ogryns & be able to hit enemies in front of them

[umbral granite]

side note: I just got done with a heresy level "low intensity shock troop gauntlet" that featured a knife zealot that tried to knife both demonhost to death, then immidiatelty went stealth as soon as it aggro'd onto them, a plasma-gun veteran who was only doing charged shots and exploded themselves 7 times, and a level 8 psyker who tried to sword-fight a crusher.

[winter grove]

Technically you can swordfight a crusher with ds4

[frank basin]

Demonhost can see stealth zealot

[winter grove]

Been there did that

[frank basin]

That was patched

[umbral granite]

They were level 8... on a heresy level mission...

[frank basin]

Level 8 psyker fight crusher

[tall torrent]

I am so not looking forward to having to organize writing about how weapon specialist works

[winter grove]

So no ds4 shiiii 😬

[winter grove]

He's fueled by stupidity and sheer will

[idle swallow]

He killed a crusher with a fucking pencil

[umbral granite]

You can dominate a crusher with diemos force sword... heavy 2 goes brrr

[winter grove]

Oh yes please

[frank basin]

On max stack uncanny strike

[umbral granite]

Exactly, but he tried it TWICE...

[frank basin]

Sometime is hard to hit their head when crusher constantly moving

[frank basin]

He forgot the patch

[winter grove]

Idk when I was testing tactical axe it was easier to hit the head rather than the body

[umbral granite]

Charged heavy 1 into light 1, heavy 2 tends to be enough for me to deal with single crusher threats (though the conga-lines are still an issue)

[frank basin]

I have hard time track pattern combo

[umbral granite]

Understandable, some weapon combo's need a lot of practice to perfect

Looks at the ogryn shovel combo that stagger-locks crusher conga-lines

[junior needle]

Don’t like combo weapons

Make ead urt

Just use autohotkey to automate it because I don’t like spinning plates

[timid otter]

If you have any damage tables on weapons with max modifers on things that affect damage pls send them (ex finnese, first target, damage, penetration), list which weapon it is.

This is a damage table.

[fickle wraith]

any1 have a quick helbore build?

[bitter turtle]

which one

and what do you mean by build

weapon build or talent tree?

[fickle wraith]

talent tree

its a mk2

[bitter turtle]

want survivalist or nah

you dont personally need it since hbs are ammo efficient

but idk if u wanna say fuck ur team and take extra melee damage

[fickle wraith]

prosb with it

i think

i mean i cooked some dog shit i think

im playing w a friend rn hes new to the game so its not TOO insane

but

[bitter turtle]

how much do you bayonet stab

[fickle wraith]

barely

[bitter turtle]

since it got nerfed last patch lul

[fickle wraith]

even when i played (last time was 13.14)

i barely bayonetted

using a mk6 power sword with pc4 and brutal momentum 3

so im good on that end

absolute legend

[bitter turtle]

do you need desperado for bps

on that sword

kinda low finesse

so idk

like 2 shot on crusher

[fickle wraith]

eh

works for now

cant complain

[bitter turtle]

no i mean

do you need desperado

since idk if it does the 2 shot without it

unless you dont care

[fickle wraith]

i dont rly care

havent tested

again, last time i played was 13.14 xd

he just joined the game so im fucking around with malice and shit with him

[trim steppe]

I really like that sword's appearance mod

[fickle wraith]

ty its gangsta as fuck

the lightning is cyan in game

idk why

something to do with the blade cuz on other blades its the usual blue

[bitter turtle]

https://i.gyazo.com/2f92e030c39148c2ca08930b67013f33.png

id probably do this then

or something

[fickle wraith]

started the level 3 so ill see how my dog build fels

feels

no executioner stance on helbore??