veteran-class

[junior needle]

But uh, the recons are in a pretty bad spot

[somber axle]

The 2 and 7 do feel very underpowered

The 6 is still very obviously weaker than the current top Vet weapons but can be ok with the right set up

Still very fun though

[icy rampart]

trapper into scab grenade is such shit man

[void rampart]

I remember the MK 7 put me off lasguns forever

until tonight

[icy rampart]

what a fun gameplay loop

[little ledge]

mk 2 for me

[somber axle]

My fav is when someone goes too close to a door and the previously silent poxburster pair behind it suddenly open the door and instant explode to down them

[slow spade]

that's why nets should be retconned from the 40k universe

[somber axle]

Double boom, instant down

[somber axle]

For Vet I would very much recommend trying out the Lucius Mk 2. It cleans rooms of shooters very effectively, with unarmoured damage it one taps gunners and shotgunners, can one tap flak gunners and shotgunners, effective penetration on crushers too and the special bayonet stab one shots hounds that run into your face or are on a team mate next to you

Only problem is that getting a good roll for the Mk II feels more important than the Mk I or Mk III

[void rampart]

(recon lasguns)

[icy rampart]

is crit strike chance useful on plasma?

[void rampart]

no problem with other lasguns

[somber axle]

That makes more sense

Still would recommend the Mk II Lucius because it plays like a dream

[sonic marlin]

too bad tac axes suck

[atomic zephyr]

just ran into a level 20 vet in my damnation magdumping with a recon lasgun and going down every five minutes

or less

it was surreal

bot-tier skills

[void rampart]

promise that wasn't me btw

[icy rampart]

i just had a dogshit time in high int gauntlet heresy

oops all trappers and scav bombers

not downed once to crushers or maulers or even the fucking nurgle beast

but every time a bomber trapper combo

[atomic zephyr]

like i watched him stare the assassination boss in the face while blasting a recon las point blank

[somber axle]

Baby's first recon las I guess LMFAO

[void rampart]

i think the first recon lasgun i used was on psyker actually lmao

[slow spade]

TECHNICALLY plasma has shit crit bonus but because plasma has such high damage it actually adds a lot

[void rampart]

probably contributed to it

[somber axle]

Oh I meant the level 20

[slow spade]

crit build plasma is still a meme

[void rampart]

ik ik

[slow spade]

not recommended but viable

[icy rampart]

consecration gave me ranged crit strike chance, is it worth burning a pick to change it off? pg already has gets hot if that matters

[slow spade]

idk what your plasma is but if you can afford to replace it. Then replace it for something like maniac (fuck mutants) or Unyielding (fuck bosses)

+25% damage on a gun that does like 2k a hit means a lot

[somber axle]

I forget the breakpoints on plasma but unyielding is a solid pic yeah

[junior needle]

You'd be correct. The two is likely the lowest dps gun in the game. With rending talents, 2 gets about 689~ dps against maniac bodies, 7a gets 865~, 6d about 1075~.

6d is still below even the lower end of IAG performance on bodyshots (and has worse ammo efficiency there), and very below IAG headshot performance.

[somber axle]

If maniac damage drops it from 2 shots per mutie down to 1 headshot crit it would definitely be worth taking maniac too

I think plasma one taps all other maniacs

[slow spade]

oh I'd hold off until you get that weapon orange or find a better one

[timid otter]

ok

[slow spade]

needs the maniac damage to kill flamers

[timid otter]

ive tested the combat axe perks

what weapon next

[gusty bison]

Interesting

[tall torrent]

Kind of
Crits give you more consistent breakpoints, that’s about it

[slow spade]

for reference, here is a near perfect plasma

[somber axle]

That makes sense

Very worth taking maniac then

[void rampart]

infernus and dum dum right

[tall torrent]

No

[slow spade]

you can substitute maniac with stuff like Focus Target to reach the breakpoint but usable

[tall torrent]

U can 1 shot both flamers by default without maniac

Headshot

Unless u mean bodyshot 1 tap

[slow spade]

no shit you kill flamers with a headshot

[junior needle]

You may now hold this cat for a period of 6 seconds, after which it must be returned.

[slow spade]

plasma headshot is like 3k+

[tall torrent]

It’s not

[slow spade]

rip your plasma

[somber axle]

To be fair CIAG performance is an outlier unless you mean the Graia and Agripina numbers too. Not sure how the Recon 6 compares to those but they feel more balanced right now vs the Columnus

[tall torrent]

It’s just under 1400

[slow spade]

oof lol

[tall torrent]

For flamers

[timid otter]

Can i hold the cat

[gusty bison]

Cat

[timid otter]

I need some nosh sah

[umbral granite]

Maybe, but you never know if fat-shark will decide to buff them or not.

[junior needle]

You must first spread misinformation to hold the cat

[timid otter]

weak spot damage is perfect on combat axe

I love my 3% damage

big breakpoints

big monii

[slow spade]

I'm sad weakspot damage is shit

I love crit builds :c

[gusty bison]

Weakspot damage is ok on some guns

Read: 2.7x finesse

[icy rampart]

melee weapon weakspot hitting is funky

[slow spade]

yeah was mostly meaning for the Tac Axe

[timid otter]

Oh wow

i was actually correct about 3% damage

i was just guessing

[gusty bison]

I take weakspot damage talents on recon not because its great

[junior needle]

Just to note, I didn't mention the ciag specifically. It's below the minimum for all IAG's. Those numbers are also from partially talented recons, and not pure baseline performance.

But you can compare it to purely talentless IAG's.

[gusty bison]

I take it because i need every damage i can squeeze out lol

[lucid pasture]

I really wish I'd gotten better blessing and perk rolls on this lasgun lmao

[tall torrent]

Graia8 and Agripinaa1 still lead recon lasguns by miles unfortunately

[slow spade]

I mean Ghost and Headhunter are really good blessings though lol

[lucid pasture]

Yeah I just personally prefer others

[slow spade]

don't tempt Hadron

she will give you shit

[timid otter]

Ah yes i wonder actually what is the damage falloff profile for infantry autoguns

[slow spade]

I'm just happy I don't get tier 2 blessings on orange upgrades anymore

[junior needle]

And here you may observe 2400~ minimum headshot damage gray and talentless on maniacs.

[lucid pasture]

This is fair

[junior needle]

Anti suppression is likely to work better in practice for overall performance because if you get suppressed, your spread looks like this.

[tall torrent]

Agripinaa > Graia > Columnus in that order

Although in practical terms Graia seems the best performer at range purely from it having the lowest recoil out of the 3

[timid otter]

Ye ill actually just spreadsheet it.

[gusty bison]

Good point

Id drop desperado for it

But ye

[junior needle]

graia and agri look like this

[frail bolt]

is this axe any good?

[frank ether]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/807809192537882647/1107298118803931317/attachment-19.gif

[timid otter]

I find it can be misleading in that description as it doesnt say when the falloff does begin.

Ex does it start at 20m?

10m?

[umbral granite]

Ah yes, the heavy flashlight pistol... no melk, i dont think i will be buying this anytime soon

[slow spade]

part of why I use plasma

no dropoff UwU

[umbral granite]

hmm... is hammerblow 4/Decimator 3 worth the melk credits...

[slow spade]

no

Decimator can hit lvl 4

I'd wait personally

[umbral granite]

this looks... tempting... I like the kantrael on zealot more than vet though tbh

is the fire frenzy 4 worth it though...

[junior needle]

Ciag falloff looks like this, which is quite unusual. I also got falloff with it starting at 16m on flak. Same with the agri I tested.

The falloff range can vary for different weapon lines though. I think on the kickback I got falloff starting at 7m

[timid otter]

Ye i looked at shotgun today for example

[junior needle]

Which kept me from one tapping muties

[timid otter]

Agrippna has a falloff range at 20m while kantrael has 10m

Large differnence between the two weapons.

[somber axle]

That's fair. Usually when I see others mention the IAG they mean the CIAG. I almost never see anyone running Agripina or Graia. But this is good info! Thanks!

[somber axle]

I wonder how FS does internal testing and balancing regarding these weapons. Surely they've noticed how strong the IAGs are vs Recons, yeah? They noticed the Recon performance when they rolled out the nerfs. I wonder if they've been watching recon performance more to see how they want to continue tuning it

[timid otter]

Im mostly looking to compile all the information about the weapons by now.

[raw linden]

Do the volley fire penances work with executioners stance?

[junior needle]

According to a former playtester, fatshark was supposedly supposed to ship larger changes to the recons in addition to the patch 14 nerfs as part of a larger rebalancing to make them better baseline.

But they ended up shipping essentially nothing but nerfs and then leaving them in the dumpster again for multiple patches, so who knows what's going on

Many weapons were left in dumpster tier for very long periods prior to the talent patch, while others were blatantly above par and similarly went unnerfed for a very long time

I don't think whoever is doing the weapon balancing at fatshark is doing a very good job.

[bitter turtle]

its funny

[junior needle]

There's very clear favoritism

[bitter turtle]

because even if the recon was untouched

pretta ysure ciag would outperform it

it still had awful maniac damage pre nerf

[junior needle]

Oh yeah, ciag is definitely putting out considerably more damage than patch 13 6d

Even at gray

You could get some amazing ammo efficiency with critfishing but, the damage was never that nutty

[somber axle]

That's curious. That almost feels like whatever their new plan for the recon was got scrapped but they still wanted to knock down recons from overperforming. Still feels weird looking at that vs how they look at IAGs, Columnus in particular

Were they just scared it would be too strong on Karnak twins or something

[junior needle]

There's tuning down an overperformer, and then there's gutting it and leaving it in a burning dumpster

[bitter turtle]

Wasn't even overperforming compared to something like p13 v3

Which is still more than playable

[junior needle]

Fatshark is perfectly capable of doing the former

[bitter turtle]

Despite the finesse nerf

[somber axle]

That's fair

[junior needle]

https://medal.tv/games/warhammer-40000-darktide/clips/1wUaYdMKK9GkZG/gqKnSQjX2Np4?invite=cr-MSx1REksMTU3ODYzOTYwLA?mobilebypass=true

18k dps btw

[somber axle]

Geez

Auto clicker mod with a Vraks seems silly

[bitter turtle]

It's 3 burst

[junior needle]

Yes

[bitter turtle]

You don't need autoclicker

And autoclicker v7 sounds like a terrible idea

[somber axle]

That was without the mod?

[frank ether]

who needs an autoclicker for burst weapons lmao

[bitter turtle]

It's v3

You have 3 round butst

You don't need to autoclick

[tall torrent]

I just hope they’re cooking up smth big for the next update besides fixing cosmetic clippings (but srsly pls fix the cosmetic clippings) since they’ve been radio silent on content drops for >60d at this point

[somber axle]

I don't use mods so I have no idea when they're being used tbh

[junior needle]

Yeah that dps has absolutely nothing to do with autofiring

[somber axle]

The fire rate just seemed silly on that vid

[junior needle]

You can do that with your hand on the vraks 3

[frank ether]

thats pretty low rate of fire

[somber axle]

I should practice more with the vraks 3

[tall torrent]

Yea patch13 real winner was vraks3

[hollow ibex]

i use the autoclicker mod with all the burst guns

[frank ether]

v3 has like

maybe 600 rpm

if even that

[hollow ibex]

why click multiple times when i can just click once

[frank ether]

going off the feeling

[bitter turtle]

Funny how it was by and far the most busted in 13

[tall torrent]

Nah, much slower

[bitter turtle]

And in 14 it got only a light tap to make it reasonable

Meanwhile recon got pissed on

[tall torrent]

Patch 13 vraks3 was the real winner but people were just saying recon busted lolol

[frank ether]

yea I was too generous

[tall torrent]

600rpm is Graia8 firerate

Vraks3 is much lower than that

[frank ether]

huh

[somber axle]

I'd love new weapons. Boltpistol or Meltagun. Long Las could be fun too. Something more than new variants to breathe more fun into the game

[frank ether]

thought graia was faster than that

[tall torrent]

Yea, Graia8 is 10.00 rps = 600 rpm

It’s on the stat card

[frank ether]

I dont rly use that one too often though so I'll believe it

[keen sedge]

which shovel would yall recommend?

[frank ether]

I remember it as 750 for whatever reason

but its probably 600

[bitter turtle]

Prob mk3

They're all good though just try them out

[tall torrent]

I’d love to try long-las if it ever comes to this game
Hoping it to be somewhere between Helbore & Plasma in terms of power and handling

[frank ether]

I'd love a longlas

[umbral garnet]

The mk3

[tall torrent]

The deniable drip from carrying a long-las

[somber axle]

Yessss

[tall torrent]

All 3 are good, I like mk7, some prefer mk3, and standard issue isn’t bad either

[bitter turtle]

Long ass

Gottem

[lucid pasture]

Highly wishful thinking, but maybe the scion helmet is a little teaser of a hotshot lasgun or a longlas coming with the full set? =v

[tall torrent]

Maybe a hellgun (or hotshot lasgun whatever name u prefer) is coming
It might be a braced lasgun though

[somber axle]

I'd like Left 4 Dead style fixed gun emplacements on new maps too but that's probably never going to happen

[tall torrent]

I think catshark was saying she’ll relay the community’s request for a hellgun to designers

[lucid pasture]

How ya reckon that'd function? Big boy damage lasgun with ammo and a slower overheat mechanic than plasma?

[tall torrent]

Picture DRG engineer’s shard diffractor

[icy rampart]

volatile on a plasma gun is shit right

[tall torrent]

But give it recoil and spread

[icy rampart]

what should I slot in instead

[tall torrent]

Gets hot
Gloryhunter / blaze away

[icy rampart]

here is the final product

[tall torrent]

Uh

That’s not a very good plasma

[icy rampart]

what

was told to dump ammo and charge rate

[tall torrent]

The perks aren’t good

Plasma relies more on perks than blessings

[junior needle]

Tried to recreate it without going full psyk warrior, still does pretty good.

[icy rampart]

wdym manic is good

[tall torrent]

For plasma it’s meh

[lucid pasture]

I just wish this game's servers were better so I could properly enjoy autoguns.

[tall torrent]

Autoguns don’t really get screwed over latency tho?

[junior needle]

Isn't maniac the most commonly recommended perk

Also all autoguns are hitscan

[tall torrent]

For plasma it only matters for flamer bodyshot and mutant charged shot 1 shot

[junior needle]

Is that with or without the ping keystone

[lucid pasture]

Idunno man, the way it messes with my game it sure does. I'll get like three or four shots in a row that fire but don't register, or don't fire at all but still give me recoil so my screen gets the jitters.

[tall torrent]

You need to stack some dmg talents for it

[lucid pasture]

Both usually happen at once, and it really kills the weapon for me.

[icy rampart]

are you in australia or something? I've never experienced this

[lucid pasture]

Nope. East coast USA with a good internet connection.

[tall torrent]

But I think gunner bodyshot is more important purely from a practicality standpoint

Gunners often are far away where getting headshots are just going to be less consistent, while flamers will casually jog towards you until they get within like 8-9m where they’ll pause for a bit then start flaming

[timid otter]

Ive seen plasma be played with a variety of perks being optimal

It depends on talents

[icy rampart]

it will gunner oneshot body on damnation with the ping

[tall torrent]

By default? No

And if you’re telling me you need 5 stacks of tag keystone for that breakpoint then it might as well not matter

[timid otter]

I wouldnt recommend constraining to recommending one single perk to plasma

ok that was a very wordy sentence

[tall torrent]

The only single perk that’s universal useful for plasma is elite I’d say

You can do flak/maniac after that

Flak has better consistency for several targets and paired with AE can give u both rager 1HS non-crit

[terse idol]

Hmm, and you're connected to east coast in darktide region?

Try the #🎒support-issues

Might be able to get help there

[lucid pasture]

Probably, but how would I check this

[terse idol]

There should be a setting when you press escape in the mourning star on the top right

[lucid pasture]

Nnnnope, not there. I'm playing the Steam version of the game on PC, maybe it differs between platforms for some reason?

[terse idol]

Naw it should be the same.... I forgot where it is to change your data center

I just see it when I play on PC too

Is it... on the matchmaking map?

But certainly try support

[lucid pasture]

Just checked there and that's a no as well

[lucid pasture]

Lookin into it, appreciate the tip =)

Ah wait, found it!

Gotta press E in the matchmaker

And yeah, connected to NA East, 23ms.

[compact skiff]

Never used the boltgun, how to build from here?

[timid otter]

Stat prio Damage>Reload speed>Stability>Mobility>Collateral
Needs 51% collateral.
Ideal perks Flak>Maniac/unyielding
Blessings:Pinning fire>surgical/cavaclade

Other info
Bolter has two main fire modes being the hipfire mode and the ADS mode. The hipfire mode unloads a mass amount of bolter rounds when held down, always fires two pellets even when clicked once. The ADS meanwhile is used to shoot single bullets with accuracy.
One of the more peculiar techs with the bolter is to skip recoil reset by reentering ADS mode. The end of bolter reload animation can also be interrupted with sprinting reducing the amount of time it takes for the bolter to reload.
A collateral stat of 51 or higher means that one single round of the bolter is enough to open up a bulwark shield.
The bolter shines best in veteran when used with a sharpshooter build as it decreases the major drawbacks of bolter with its long pullout time, high sway. Use the ultimate executioner stance to more quickly pull out the bolter. Another talent that shines with bolter is volley adept which reduces the reload speed of the bolter, a crucial upgrade considering how long bolters reload is.

[trim steppe]

reroll cav to pinning fire, reroll ranged crit to flak or maniac

magdump bolter is better suited to zealot, for vet ads sniping is better. so taking surgical over cavalcade is a good idea

[terse idol]

Yo wait

Hard disagree

Focus target Exe is incredible on vet

For mag dumping boltgun

It depends what you want to do with the boltgun imo, because you can go either way

[lucid pasture]

Well, read through the thread on input lag and actions not registering, thankfully it's not as bad for me as for some, but nobody has a solution and most folks are saying it's a netcode issue which, yeah, that's what I thought.

[idle swallow]

Exe stance boltgun is my preferred, I only really ever hipfire if a boss is stunned/animation locked or if an elite pack is directly on my ass

[terse idol]

Like, cavalcade, pinning fire, unyielding

Its really good vs monstrosity modifier

Nooow I will say, I'll need to try zealot boltgun

[dense gyro]

yo nerds 5% extra toughness or 10% stam regen

[icy rampart]

fucking godly perk and bless picks so far

[terse idol]

63 TR

I'm kidding its good

Just not gonna get the 1 more shot

[icy rampart]

wait actually is that the breakpoint

it's so fucking over bro I love having 2 shots from 80%

[terse idol]

What noo

I mean

70% TR gives you the 8 shots

[icy rampart]

.21

fuck

it's never been more over

[terse idol]

You just got 7 on 63% Thermal res

😭

[icy rampart]

we win some

[terse idol]

Oh yeah

That's the good stuff

Dump charge rate

[icy rampart]

yes

yessss

[terse idol]

[compact skiff]

I got another god roll tonight

I can still one tap crushers and maulers with a charged heavy attack on this build

[stoic jetty]

What modifiers are best for powersword VI if using a plasma gun? Flak/Carapace?

[tall torrent]

Maniac/carapace/unyielding

[void rampart]

build from here? never use shotguns

[midnight totem]

I spent 600k dockets trying to upgrade my Vraks 3

only one item over 370. It got bricked

Thats what I get to deliberately trying to roll for something

[bitter turtle]

ive spent like 1m so far for a chainsword

still nothing

😔

[terse idol]

Savlar chem dog squad

We lost horribly 😌

but we looked cool doing it

[ebon umbra]

HL-17-36 - OFFLINE

[placid portal]

Full bore + No Respite/Deathspitter/Scattershot
Unyielding perk pushes it to 1 tap reapers on crit headshot

[tall torrent]

I just realized my 541 godroll plasma can’t 1 shot flamers with 5 stack RF alone

It’s 1400 dmg (but they’re still alive)

[placid portal]

Decimals in calculation do be a bitch

[atomic zephyr]

"ill just do one round of histg, 30 minute adventure"

i was the only person capable of taking out long ranged enemies quickly
it was not fun

[placid portal]

Damn

What did the other vet bring

[graceful plover]

just got me a stubby with 3 80s

its a 380 magnum

[radiant chasm]

A meme for the templar chat

[atomic zephyr]

stealth agrippina revolver

one ogryn brought a rumbler and the other brought a stubber

stubber ogryn was better at killing specialists than the vet

[sleek garden]

do you have sharpness up on your monitor

[junior needle]

Agri revolver is pretty garbage

[shadow aurora]

Its not garbage

Not great either though

Only garbage weapons in the game are recon and paul imo

It is pretty rank on vet though

I use it on my psyker personally

[junior needle]

I can’t think of a single thing it does better than the old revolver apart from “high noot XD”

If it had a really tight spread on the fan I’d take it

But like

[sleek garden]

whats wrong with the power maul

[junior needle]

It bad

[shadow aurora]

Just because there is a superior alternative doesn't mean it is garbage. Its still better than some other weapons

[shadow aurora]

Wait is this responding to chris or me

[junior needle]

I dunno, think I’d rather have a recon ammo goblin. He’d at least be able to hit things at a distance

Was a response to being asked why the Paul was bad

[sleek garden]

whys it bad

it swings sideways and throws everyone

fun

[shadow aurora]

Its damage output is negligible

[junior needle]

Yeah, it flings chaffe around but does pitiful damage

[shadow aurora]

And its alt activation is slow af

[sleek garden]

like the crusher it was supposed to trade all out damage for crowd control

but then they made the crusher better

[junior needle]

You can’t cancel out of it either

Like the zealot can

Thing is, killy ogryn weapons can already do that

Not being able to kill means you’re offloading the damage burden onto your team

And then it doesn’t even cc as well as the crusher either

[tall torrent]

Think zealot’s crusher but it doesn’t do enough dmg

[shadow aurora]

Its spread is pretty bad but if you crouch and stay still you can dome people a bit further away. Its better if youre trying to stay close to stuff. Perfect for my smityr

[junior needle]

But like, I can just run regular revolver and do that without the song and dance for accuracy

[shadow aurora]

Does that automatically make the fan revolver bad?

[junior needle]

It needs something to make it a legitimate alternative

And not just a meme weapon

[shadow aurora]

Regular revolver needs nerfed still anyways

Meme weapon is for something that is laughably bad and that is not the cowboy revolver

[junior needle]

The fatshark balance dev never substantially nerfs his favorite weapon(s)

[tall torrent]

I’m gonna do smth silly

[junior needle]

You’ll be lucky to see a hand slap

[tall torrent]

BM + Thrust might actually be really nice for Achlys axe

[shadow aurora]

It got a baby nerf not to long ago

[junior needle]

Also na, meme weapons are suboptimal and possibly bad but mostly just taken for the luls

[shadow aurora]

We just need to apply more pressure

[junior needle]

Dumpster weapons are laughably bad

[tall torrent]

I think this is the only combat axe that genuinely requires like no perk/talent investment for bruiser 1HS

[shadow aurora]

People are not taking fan revolver because its funny

I mean it is a lil funny

[sleek garden]

i think every weapon is fine above 370

[shadow aurora]

But its better than that

[junior needle]

Press x to doubt

[shadow aurora]

https://tenor.com/view/panda-flip-desk-freak-out-mad-gif-15503485

[junior needle]

All the high noon posting about it makes that hard to believe

[shadow aurora]

I use it and i can do pretty well. If you use it and you have trouble with it its a skissue simple as

[tall torrent]

I really don’t think it’s in a great spot rn

[shadow aurora]

I never said it didnt need a buff or anything

Its just not bad

[tall torrent]

It takes like 2 shots to kill most enemies u care about

[junior needle]

In the randomness of quickplay, you can do comparatively well to your teammates with most things

(Possibly because they’re shit)

(Possibly because they’re shit and you’re competent)

[shadow aurora]

Go into auric with a recon go through an entire game and tell me you had a good time with no headaches

[junior needle]

But I’d say you’re doing well despite the revolver

Not quite because of it

[tall torrent]

Btw question, how does thrust’s dmg bonus work

[junior needle]

Dunno, don’t use it

I assume it has stages of charging

[shadow aurora]

Thrust is for nerds

[tall torrent]

Yea it has 3 stacks

The description says up to +20% heavy atk dmg based on charge time

Is that “3 stacks to get +20% dmg” or “each stack is +20% dmg”

[shadow aurora]

20% max

If it was 60% thatd be broken

[junior needle]

the former, most likely

[white minnow]

each stack is 20%

[junior needle]

[thick wolf]

I find it funny that holding down the heavy attack doesn't make the damage anymore powerful unless you have thrust

[junior needle]

pog

[tall torrent]

U sure?

[white minnow]

ye

[tall torrent]

Let’s go

[white minnow]

unless it's different from thammers

[sleek garden]

crunch does

but its only ogryn

[tall torrent]

If it was “3 stacks for 20%” then it’s literally dogshit

[thick wolf]

in a typical videogame, holding down the heavy attack would increase it's damage

[shadow aurora]

Is it like some funked up multiplier like +weakspot damage or are you straight getting over 1.5 times damage

[thick wolf]

Darktide meanwhile requires you to have a blessing just for that

[white minnow]

just straight up +60% power

[junior needle]

There are many dogshit blessings in this game

[astral ingot]

the good ole days when it was bugged to give 50% per stack

and 1 stack counted as full stacks

[white minnow]

is this discussion for a thrust BM achlys build?

[tall torrent]

+20~60% heavy atk power based on charge time

[tall torrent]

Yea I’m gonna do smth very silly

[white minnow]

this world shall quake

[tall torrent]

With thrust + BM getting the bruiser 1HS breakpoints

I can spare 2 points (10% melee dmg) and go the very funny route of O4B

[shadow aurora]

The funny™️ axe

[junior needle]

I haven't taken mine for a spin in a very long time, I feel the ammo goblin urge rising

COMBAT BLADE - FLESH TEARER, LACERATE
RECON MK2 - STRIPPED DOWN, HIT/RUN

Oh yeah, it's auric maelstrom time

[tall torrent]

80% mobility combat knife
VG -> O4B -> 5% move speed -> smoke -> 10% melee -> serrated blade -> 5% move speed aura

Embrace the meme

[frank basin]

Go auric with recon

The most beta build

[junior needle]

Conveniently I have this helmet just for an occasion like this

[frank basin]

Is that means the beta helmet user are soyak?

[agile yew]

Bit unfortunate to get that as dump stat

[wanton dawn]

I mean...

You are losing about 6 shot. On mag+reserve

[agile yew]

Yeah ill probably craft it as my current one is sorta weak too

[austere pine]

are headhunter autoguns ever good?

[reef flare]

why not just try it yourself

some people like it

some people dont

[austere pine]

because 1. i do not have the plasteel to get them to a good enough level to be comfortable trying them and 2. because i'm trying to gauge the community's perception of the weapons since to me, all they are designed to do, other weapons can also do and can do it a lot better

[junior needle]

Vraks 3 and 7 are good

Vraks 3 wants HH/deadly and 7 wants surgical/deadly.

Vraks 3 may also need +unarmored for dreg shooters now

Actually I think I tested it, it probably does

[dire olive]

The Agri is also good it just has no zoom

It definitely has higher DPS than the 3

[austere pine]

brunt cooked with this one fr

[late hatch]

vraks 7

[late hatch]

custom FOV mod fixes that

[civic knot]

Whats the best tac axe?

[late hatch]

4 or 7 dep which atk pattern you like more

[civic knot]

Its balanced like that. Getting better at aiming and also crouching to mitigate recoil is the solution.

[austere pine]

how do i get a laspistol to work well? i got a lvl 4 one as a drop, tried it and they feel a lot better than i thought they do

[civic knot]

uh well no matter what you should be running 30% weakspot dmg so theres that

also I guess run ogryn and monstrocity damage

[civic knot]

and probably elite dmg too

[austere pine]

i moreso meant the actual gun setup

[civic knot]

ah

i see

well

infernus and dumdum

is BiS blessings

[junior needle]

I dunno about that one, did some testing at max stat grays just now and the agri HH did slightly less dps while also having this really annoying jerking movement on the second shot.

[austere pine]

excuse me you talk exactly like one of my irl friends and it's pretty funny to see

[civic knot]

and for perks, i guess flak/unyielding or flak/maniac

either way flak is where it needs more

[junior needle]

Probably the 4 since it has the best cleave values on the lights

But none of the tac axes are doing hot atm

[civic knot]

huh? you do lights to kill hordes?? with bromentum? why not just heavy

[austere pine]

is there a better laspistol? i got a 2 with lvl 3 dumdum so asking if i should just sell this one to go into the other one or if i should focus on the mk2

[late hatch]

imo the new laspistol is better than the old. ive been running this for a bit, meaning to get a new one soon. you can swap out ghost for a damage blessing if you pref

[civic knot]

@austere pine this is hugh mungus btw, super nice dmg increase for both ranged and ur melee

[junior needle]

Well for one the 4 has purely vertical heavies, and also because taxes struggle with bruiser breakpoints across the board

[civic knot]

can it reach breakpoints that old one cant?

[civic knot]

are those vertical heavies better for dps than light spam?

[woeful ibex]

NICE

[austere pine]

it's bricked btw

[junior needle]

If you want to hit one target then maybe, but I haven't tested it yet. It's hard to get perfect heavy timing manually for an objective answer. Meanwhile lights can be autoswung very easily.

[austere pine]

hadron screwed me over

[civic knot]

[junior needle]

They are most definitely not good for brutal usage though

[austere pine]

kinda, not all that much but the perks hurt me

[civic knot]

as long as u get dumdum you should be fine btw

[austere pine]

and i'm now in the omnissiah's hands in terms of 2nd blessing

[civic knot]

dont use that in auric without PC1 or 2

[austere pine]

i get at least pc3, i win. i don't, i sell the garbage

[civic knot]

waaay to slow otherwise

[civic knot]

the perks are actually good cause of carapace. I would keep it and swap both blessings to bromentum and PC4

[austere pine]

discount dumdum lol

[junior needle]

You can feasibly do tac axe 2 with brutal and its more diagonalish heavies, but you're gonna have like rashad requirements for proper building and it's just not as good.

[austere pine]

hunting for pc4 rn

[civic knot]

k

[late hatch]

fires slower and heavier. much nicer for headshot 1taps

[civic knot]

@austere pine and btw any level of bromentum is worth is just for that amazing cleave

[civic knot]

because of the 30% weakspot dmg node?

[austere pine]

don't have bromentum

[civic knot]

finna on getting it, its amazinggggggg

i mean sunder is fine too

[austere pine]

got 2 slaughterers

3 actually

[civic knot]

not terrible per se but i would still use a grey sapper shovel every day before i would use one of those

[austere pine]

i hate how little damage shovels do

feels like an unpowered power sword

[civic knot]

not true at all unless we are talking old shovel

[civic knot]

pickaxe

problem solved

2 shot crushers with carapace dmg on it

[austere pine]

i'm like perma poor

[civic knot]

then play normal damnation and get plasteel

[late hatch]

yeah and if you take ghost you should also consider Determined for suppression immunity

It turns you into a ranged machine if you can click heads. super good if you pair with a psyker with trauma

[dire olive]

I use a scope from the weapon customisation extended mod personally

[agile yew]

Did quickplay, started game with 2 bots? 🤷‍♂️

[dire olive]

You sure you hit every shot or got lucky/unlucky with crits?

I find that hard to believe when Agri has higher damage per shot + gets off about 4 shots in the amount of time it takes the 3 to fire one burst

[junior needle]

Yes, I was shooting into a reaper head right in front of it and tried it multiple times.

I also had the autofire mod active

Both were gray max stats, which I get in the psyk with a mod

talentless

[dire olive]

Seems odd, does the 3 have better unyielding or something?

[junior needle]

The vraks 3 fires faster than you think. Also the agri has a wierd pause between shots.

[dire olive]

I guess it does

Difference seems fairly negligible at least

[junior needle]

nope, exact same modifiers

[dire olive]

I need to remember to get that auto fire mod

[junior needle]

The agri has higher damage per shot and listed as having higher fire rate, but it doesn't have higher fire rate in practice.

The vraks 3 is also nearly perfectly stable, while even at max stability the agri HH has the annoying jerking which is terribly annoying on a finesse weapon.

[dire olive]

With a scope modded on I don't really get that issue

But that's cheating I guess

[junior needle]

It's fine on the first burst

Bursts after that in rapid succession give the jumping

[dire olive]

I suspect it's the terrible default FoV making the recoil seem bigger because the targets look smaller than with the others

Idk why it's the only one without zoom

[junior needle]

Its like that with every gun

Because fatshark bad at game design

[dire olive]

I mean it's not like it doesn't make sense that magdumping is less accurate tbf

[junior needle]

I changed the fov and added a site but it's still noticeable on repeated bursts

[dire olive]

Thankfully most things go down in 1 or 2

[junior needle]

If they do similar dps, there's not really a reason to take the agri over the vraks 3 when it's just better at hitting all shots without needing to pace them.

[dire olive]

Yeah but it's worth noting that the quicker burst will drop certain enemies faster

I think it's ultimately up to preference

[late hatch]

Good at game design, not so good at balancing.

[junior needle]

That's kind of a reach

There's a very, very small difference in burst times. Unfortunately I can't measure it

A better metric would be total damage in a burst

[dire olive]

It's not wrong though

[junior needle]

It's very difficult to say either way without timing each of them, which I don't know how to do

But like

A difference of a few milliseconds is not important

[dire olive]

Which is why I said it's up to preference

Personally I would go with the 3 if I feel I want something more safe/spammy

[junior needle]

I mean, all the evidence points to the agri just being worse

[dire olive]

Agri I use more like the 7

[junior needle]

It has more stagger I guess

[frank ether]

yep agri is a weird one

[austere pine]

i asked a single question on HH ags and now there's a whole discussion going on

karking love it

[dire olive]

Marginally

Wait is that the right word

Idk

Barely worse

[junior needle]

The dps is barely worse

But the accuracy on repeated fire makes it more annoying to handle

Maybe it has better ammo efficiency or something

Anything to go for it

[dire olive]

Depends how you use it in practice too, not just on paper

I don't personally find myself magdumping it in games

[junior needle]

A better comparison would be to the vraks 7 in that case

[dire olive]

Perhaps

[junior needle]

But it's hard to beat single shots because they remove any possibility of failure

[frank ether]

agri has some horizontal sway, vraks 3 is vertical recoil mostly and predictable

[junior needle]

Should be noted that the recoil on v3 is barely noticeable in practice

[frank ether]

I think agri needs some cleanup

[junior needle]

It's buttery smooth, used to love that gun

[frank ether]

Its still ok

not as nutty as it used to be but eh

agri could use change

[dire olive]

At the very least it needs zoom like the others, maybe less burst delay or recoil reduction

[austere pine]

how's the damage stat on this thing?

bad or okay?

[dire olive]

Very importantly make the bash 1 shot bombers instead of 2

[junior needle]

Max is 80%

So not terribly good

[austere pine]

the blessings look gorgeous and i could change up the perks easily, just wanna know if it's worth it or if i'm missing a lot of break points or not

[junior needle]

But you can use it with minimal changes as a stop gap

[umbral garnet]

That damage is rough.

[junior needle]

Ghost is ok with deadshot/dnd shenanigans but between the eyes is a waste

[dire olive]

We have a talent for immunity

[austere pine]

i got this on my psyker and figured you guys might know more about it

[junior needle]

Even better, seems that laspistols have native suppression immunity

[austere pine]

therefore i wouldn't have the suppression immunity

[junior needle]

Someone mentioned it earlier and I tested in the psyk

Seems they do

[dire olive]

Fatshark™

[umbral garnet]

Ah.

[austere pine]

seems i'm getting it them

[junior needle]

I wouldnt

If it's melkbux

[austere pine]

between the eyes being a waste, what should i swap it to?

[junior needle]

unless you're swimming in them

[dire olive]

Oh it's Melk?

Absolutely not

[austere pine]

like 2.3k and i'll have like 3k in one more mission

and i'm omw to have maybe 4 more thousand melkbucks

[agile forge]

Why do laspistols even have between the eyes

[umbral garnet]

Naw, do not waste 2.3k on that thing.

[agile forge]

It does nothing by design lmao

[dire olive]

You're better off building one from brunts

[junior needle]

Yeah dont buy that from melk

[dire olive]

Only buy from Melk for T4 blessings you want to rip or godrolls

[umbral garnet]

Melk has been giving me the SHITTEST stuff for so many days in a row by now

[austere pine]

same here, that's why i even considered buying this

even though i've never used laspistols

[agile forge]

Just hold on

[umbral garnet]

Though, today, he's got two DCs both with T4 Skull crusher and savage sweep which I don't have.

[agile forge]

Check all characters

Every time I spend myself down power cycler IV appears

I had to let it slip by 3 times now

Don't be me

[umbral garnet]

Characters? With an S? YOu mean to tell me I can play something BESIDES vet? Impossible.

[agile forge]

Oh man you are missing out lol

[umbral garnet]

I recently started with a Psyker

I just love my Vet too much.

[austere pine]

i got an actual build that forces me to be good and gives me speed™️ and gun™️ so i've just been playing vet non-stop

even though my probably best built class is my zealot babygirl

[umbral garnet]

My vet is swimming in a disgusting amount of lucky guns

Godrolls baby

[agile forge]

You know your currencies and blessing pools carry over right

[austere pine]

i keep getting t4s that are like 450s

[umbral garnet]

Of course.

[austere pine]

with t2 and t1 blessings

or i just get stuff like this

never in my life have i willingly used a combat axe

[frank ether]

thats rough

combat axes are pretty good they just need specific blessings

[agile forge]

And perks and stats

[frank ether]

eh doesn't matter as much as base roll and blessings

[agile forge]

Trigger that bromentum on every swing vs non-elite/specials or it's poop

[frank ether]

but I guess if your rashad is subpar might aswell get unarmored in there to make your life easier

If your roll is good its not needed

[agile forge]

"If"

[frank ether]

BM itself is extra damage

[agile forge]

Still haven't got one that is for me lol

It is so binary

[frank ether]

so again its blessings critical

[agile forge]

Bromentum and a good power blessing or go home, yeah

[frank ether]

if you got a godroll with BM4+headtaker it doesn't matter what perks it has at that point

[agile forge]

Mine has not quite perfect stats and shred so it is actually worthless lol

Depressing thing

[frank ether]

yea thats rough

Imma be

kinda honest

and drop my unfiltered dogshit opinion

I hate EVERYTHING about the crafting system

I'd rather have like cod style attachments that modify weapon stats

I had enough of this system back when I played borderlands 2 lmao

[late hatch]

The crafting system drives away the majority and only keeps a few OCD types interested, while some people tolerate it. I dont think it adds any real benefit to the gameplay loop at all.

[frank ether]

the numba go up gameplay

Its an essential part of the gameplay loop that people tolerate instead of enjoying

[frank ether]

And the ''player retention'' argument is dumb too, there are so many better ways of achieving that if that was their goal

maybe it like deprives you off of dopamine so you seek it out of cash shop or something? I don't even know I'm just trying to think for a reason its there and can't

[agile forge]

For some weapons it's ki da OK I think

But these binary function ones where it needs the right blessings and stat distribution to even be functional are bullshit

[late hatch]

Suits that make money decisions and push for monetisation usually dont understand actual gamers view. They just review psych stuff about how to encourage more spending, and a big one for a lot of people is time investment.

[agile forge]

Plasma is a great weapon for the crafting system for example

Rashad and power swords are dogshit

[agile forge]

Don't understand isn't even the problem, it's don't care

[frank ether]

yeah I suppose that tells a lot about the potential future of this game lmao

you are right though everything about the game's core is built around

wasting your time

rng shop rota, rng item roll, rng crafting roll, rng mission selection etc

rng melk shop

the other rng melk shop

like holy hell

[late hatch]

Gaming and companies in general are more concerned over stockholder profits than actually providing a good product. Plenty of scammy products are produced and sold knowing it will kill the company but as long as they have some profits on the way they just dont care.

[frank ether]

the part I love the most is people justifying these systems to the point of toxic positivity and active gaslighting

[agile forge]

It is time for us all to escape to the ONE place not CORRUPTED by Capitalism

SPAAAAAAAAACE

[balmy flume]

get corrupted by Chaos instead

[agile forge]

https://youtu.be/g1Sq1Nr58hM?si=gNuTBCLTqIXXHC_l

[balmy flume]

Classic

[frank ether]

I gotta replay ra2 at some point

[balmy flume]

Imagine a 40k game but in C&C style...

(Dawn of war is still a wee bit different)

[gusty bison]

Welcome to capitalism

[late hatch]

Companies like Larian Studios, CDPR, and a few select more actually produce good products and follow through on support and stuff without trying to bring in mtx for more profits. We can only pread the word and support the good companies and hope they stay in biz.

[umbral scaffold]

Isn't that basically Dawn of War?

[gusty bison]

Larian is a wild exception tbh

Their business model flat out doesnt work for most companies

[agile forge]

Ghost Ship Games too

[gusty bison]

(I.e. get bankrolled by your sugar daddy CEO)

[agile forge]

They're solid

[balmy flume]

Yes and no - Dawn of War does have capture points IIRC, and somehow it just...I don't know the word for it...different from feeling like C&C

[agile forge]

They gotta be doing it for the art, not for the money

[balmy flume]

Maybe it is lacking the in person cutscene charm

[agile forge]

Toby Fox's stuff is absolutely full of heart too

[late hatch]

No mtx in the dark souls or elden ring games right?

[frank ether]

I'm not alien to the concept of timesinks in games its just how this game does it that is incredibly hostile

[gusty bison]

The problem is any company doing this is prone to getting undercut/bought out

[balmy flume]

Joe Kucan as Marine Chaplain...

[agile forge]

Or never gets big

Capitalism crushes artistic integrity

[gusty bison]

Other big companies in the industry actively works to sabotage such companies because it cuts into their bottom line

[frank ether]

they got talent and a cult following

[gusty bison]

Thats not why they work

They work because their CEO can bankroll everything

[agile forge]

The "innovation" it promises is entirely engineered to benefiting the top and harming this beneath

[frank ether]

and its a pretty massive studio from my understanding

with no need for debt

[gusty bison]

So they arent bound to shareholders or hostile takeover threats

[late hatch]

Unknown Worlds who made subnautica and natural selection.
Rimworld from Ludeon. Obsidian Entertainment with Divinity. GOW games. No mtx.

[gusty bison]

As such Larian is basically detached from economical politics

[frank ether]

At this point though grawr I'm just staying vary of any game backed by shareholder interests

see what happened with embracer lmao

[gusty bison]

I.e. almost every game

[frank ether]

yep

I pretty much avoid

like crushing majority of video games

[gusty bison]

The problem is smaller companies not beholden to shareholders are also vulnerablr

[frank ether]

and most of what I play are ancient games that have no online only components

who would have thought peer 2 peer would actually be preferrable in the long term lmao

[frank ether]

ofc they are, most indie games don't make meaningful money

if any money

[gusty bison]

And when they do they tend to be bombarded by acquisition requests

It doesnt help that a lot of these indie companies had to turn to venture capitals to get the initial funds to get off the ground

Cos that means they cant really refuse either being acquired or going on the market

[frank ether]

yee I've seen a fair few just get sold

either the IP or the entire studio

[gusty bison]

Mhm

[frank ether]

in a fair few cases it was a result of boneheaded developer decisions killing the game though

in order cases money drying up like you said

[gusty bison]

You gotta remember also the investors want their money. And money only comes when they sell their shares

[frank ether]

thats what I was getting at to begin with, thats why I see red flags under certain investment groups

[gusty bison]

Certain? Try like almost all

Actually make that all

[frank ether]

yea make it all

though some meddle less than others

[gusty bison]

Even angel investors will cash in on returns when the company gets big

[frank ether]

sometimes to the games detriment

[gusty bison]

Yea but in this case its not meddling, its just them cashing in

I.e. company worth a lot, time to sell shares and cash out

[frank ether]

like as I said I know games where a little investor meddling could have actually saved the game because its just that badly managed

but thats like the edge case ofc

[gusty bison]

Mhm

[frank ether]

in most cases investors will be what kills your game in the end lmao

[gusty bison]

Fun fact. Even Larian studios has 30% Tencent

[frank ether]

yuck

[gusty bison]

Tencent is everywhere in the gaming industry

Basically they just invested in the entire industry

The good and the bad

Hedged bets basically

You would be hardpressed to find a game develop company that doesnt have tencent holding some of its shares

[frank ether]

yee

[gusty bison]

Honestly from what I understand its cos Tencent is one of the investors less likely to meddle

Keyword being "less" ofc.

[frank ether]

yee there is always the chance

Either way DT doesn't exactly make me happy about spending money

Maybe it works for the general playerbase I can't tell

I almost want to say making people happy would be good for their profits but then there are people probably spending money on cod space marine right now lmao

some people enjoy being treated that way

[gusty bison]

I spent my 40 bucks a year ago.

Im happy given i got like 700 good fun hours out of it

Ive only bought... one skin?

[frank ether]

I bought some aquillas back when content was actually rolling

spent the last of it recently

[gusty bison]

Tbf 95% of content was well

Bug fixes

I dont think actual content had slowed down

It was always this slow

[frank ether]

either way things were at least not stale so I could turn a blind eye to the jank

yea I suppose it just returned to the normal

[gusty bison]

We just dont have bug fixes to pad out the content releases

I just amuse myself with increasingly silly builds these days

[frank ether]

we usually hop between games every few months so

[gusty bison]

Yep

[frank ether]

I'm guessing if hd2 or something else manages to be entertaining enough

might just be the next 6 month obsession for the frens group

some of my frens already uninstalled DT lmao

[gusty bison]

HD2 i see being similar to DT.

Very big spike for about half a year then drops down to saner numbers

It has even less variety than DT imho

[frank ether]

It did start very strong

though its a more casual setting

[gusty bison]

Mhm

[frank ether]

so I guess thats only fair

I still didn't expect it to like

boom out at 250k players

[gusty bison]

I mean

DT beta had 150k+

Soooo

Im not surprised

[frank ether]

yeah but DT had so much hype going into it

[gusty bison]

Usually these numbers plummet in a month or two

[frank ether]

part of it was VT2

[gusty bison]

For us maybe

Honestlt for the general public? Not really

[frank ether]

like it had people from earlier game carrying over

helldivers 1 was this niche isometric game

[gusty bison]

All 6k of them

[frank ether]

lol I mean

there are a lot of people who played VT2 just didnt stick around

[gusty bison]

But 6k is standard fatshark numbers

[gusty bison]

Mhm WoM peaked at around 35k

Which isnt that much

Also people dont like melee hack and slash as much, is what ive noticed

They prefer point and click adventures

[frank ether]

so what is their end goal then? Milk those 6k players and be content with it I guess?

[gusty bison]

Thats what they've been doing for years

Sooo

[frank ether]

I mean it will probably work

[gusty bison]

Ye

[frank ether]

I don't know how people unironically get excited over shop rotations but they somehow do

[gusty bison]

points at valorant

Game with less content releases than DT

[frank ether]

thats not very fair though

its not a content drop game

[gusty bison]

Uhhh

The content drop is the skins

XD

[frank ether]

having frequent content in a game like that is

disaster

because its a cs style shooter with hero shooter elements

so what can you add?

heroes or maps

[gusty bison]

Skins!

[merry gale]

all recons are the same in term of crit chance right ?

[frank ether]

both of which require:

1. People's time to learn them extensively
2. For the developers to balance and test properly

[gusty bison]

Mhm

-3% iirc

[frank ether]

Ofc you can always take the ubisoft approach and add 70+ characters to your tactical hero shooter game and make it an unappealing mess to any new player

[gusty bison]

But it shoots so fast u crit a lot

[merry gale]

or is it just the blue one that has high crit strings

[gusty bison]

All are 2 crit string per crit

[gusty bison]

Lel

Why spend the money and effor

Just sit back and milk the game

We live in a world where the highest grossing games are simple, with few content updates

[frank ether]

Darktide's gameplay loop is solid but its not varied enough in my eyes, part of the issue is randomness comes from the crafting loop not from the gameplay

[gusty bison]

Mm fair.

Although thats a problem with the genre

The genre isnt very varied

[merry gale]

i'm making a second vet where i try to use weapons i never touched, so gonna try out the Mk VIIa recon

[frank ether]

if they spent that time into creating a system that churned out more randomized gameplay elements as in maps, encounters, modifiers and whatnot that in itself would create an experience people naturally want to pour thousands of hours into

[merry gale]

full stam meme build for the crit chance on aiming talent

[gusty bison]

This is hard

Cos random generators tend to cause bugs

[frank ether]

its not easy

[gusty bison]

And also not give a nice experience

[frank ether]

DRG does procedurally generated maps afaik

[gusty bison]

DRG is randomly generated iirc, but the maps are very simple

[frank ether]

but the maps and gameplay loop is simple yes

thats the downside of DRG the map generation is genious

but the combat loop is boring

[gusty bison]

Mhm

Well the combat is partly boring

Cos of the map

[frank ether]

Eh, I don't know

enemy design isn't the most interesting

there are a few that stand out sure

[gusty bison]

The maps and enemies are also dissociated

[merry gale]

i mean at 200hours I had already seen every room in the game

[gusty bison]

Like it ends up usually being a turkey shoot

[frank ether]

yep

[merry gale]

like the individual room themselves are all pre-sets

[gusty bison]

Cos the maps are samey

[merry gale]

that are randomly assembled together

[gusty bison]

Yea the exact structure is different

But its very uhhh

[frank ether]

I did so for DT in 30 hours

[gusty bison]

Similar in combat feel

[merry gale]

but dt isn't procedural ?

[gusty bison]

Open cavern/tight corridor

[frank ether]

only took me 30 hours because I couldn't play the new mission at release

like the you know

random mission selection

I couldn't fucking play the new mission they added

because it never showed up

[frank ether]

procedural doesnt neccessarily mean endless variety

there is gonna be a set number of presets

and it can only work with what it has

[merry gale]

yeah so it's kinda unfair to compare the two's in how much time you need to see all environments

[gusty bison]

I think DT maps > DRG maps tbh

[merry gale]

i'd rather have handcrafted maps aswell

[gusty bison]

Honestly i think DT maps > HD maps > DRG maps

[frank ether]

isnt HD open world

[gusty bison]

DT maps actually really affect how combat flows

[gusty bison]

Yes

[frank ether]

very little in terms of map design

[gusty bison]

Yep

[merry gale]

HD is procedural too

[frank ether]

DT maps are handcrafting they take the most effort to make from mapper perspective

[gusty bison]

I think HD does better than DRG at least of giving combat a different feel in different places

But its still kinda samey

[frank ether]

the way you interact with combat is simplistic

thats the issue in my book

[gusty bison]

Shoot gun get kill

[frank ether]

too easy to just point and shoot at things till they die

no complexity

no jank

you know this is exactly why I feel a deep motivation to argue with every casual that wants bolter buffed lmao

[gusty bison]

Thats why HD and DRG were so successful though

[frank ether]

complexity is good, jank is good

yeah but thats not fair

DT had a dogshit launch

they sabotaged their own hard work

and they also showed their ugly greed for money too early

you scare away skeptics doing that

also it helps that HD and DRG run fairly well driving up accessibility

like you can actually play those games without feeling nausiated from fps drops / stutters on an average computer

[gusty bison]

HD does NOT run well

[frank ether]

whuh

Its an open world game and don't need an upscaler to run lol

[gusty bison]

Yea but it has performance issues

[frank ether]

Its an open world game with tons of physics interactions

well, ''open world''

has issues but like

do you wanna reminder on darktide launch state lmao

[zealous wyvern]

helldivers runs great from what i hear. it just has bugs. that has nothing to do with actual performance and optimisation, does it?

at least that is how i thought it was considered

"when properly executing the program, how does it run?"

not "does the program run?"

because yes helldivers does have crash problems right now

but when it runs without crashing, it runs smoothly

[agile forge]

Heh, bugs

[frank ether]

It can run on a GTX 1070, at native 1080P 60 fps

thats like miles ahead of darktide's launch

[zealous wyvern]

thats what i mean yeah

[dusky raven]

my vet with a baton

[merry gale]

there's 50% chance depending on ur rig that the anticheat bricks ur pc

or your performances in game

[untold mulch]

Game goes smoother than Darktide to me

[zealous wyvern]

yeah

when it runs at all and lets you connect

but it does indeed

either playercount is so low its no issue rn or they managed to fix login

i just got in first try without trouble

[scarlet vessel]

how should i optimize this?

im thinking Uncanny is redundant when alt heavy is already armor pentrating to the head(?)

[tiny summit]

No. It's not redundant

[scarlet vessel]

oh then both blessings are great, then idk which to swap into the tier 4 version

[untold mulch]

Their discord has a lot of people saying they cna't get in

so no, I don't think so

is very regional based

I have had only one issue this entire week in login in, and it lasted 5 min

[zealous wyvern]

oh wow

i basically could not play for 2 days

worked fine in week though

[warm idol]

it worked fine for me but since this weekend I couldn't get in

I did manage to get in today

but matchmaking is broke and all my friends are offline so no point playing

since the game is boring solo

it's a great game but crashes/dc's with no way to reconnect, matchmaking issues and server issues all sour the experience

also if you dare criticise the game on their discord you just get mobbed even if it's fair criticism

balance is also wack with a lot of stratagems and weapons being very weak

[hollow ibex]

i tried HD2 and the movement felt awful

maybe playing darktide knife too much has given me brainrot

wanted to like the game, but i refunded

people were talking about how amazing the gunplay is, but i just didn't feel it

[zealous wyvern]

the entire discord is a mob right now

regardless of your opinion

[untold mulch]

Is full on mob hours

[zealous wyvern]

1 side throws shit at devs and anyone telling them to be mature
the other side throws shit at the complaining ppl even when they are being mature about it

personal attacks on obesity, career status and sexual experience

are constant

can you imagine if ppl acted like this when a store sold them something that isnt working irl?

crazy

just like in here a year ago

people are disappointing

[untold mulch]

A lot of children in chat probably

or well

mentally children

[zealous wyvern]

i dont even think so

i think people just stop feeling any sense of decency and empathy as soon as things move to a screen

humanity is just gone as soon as you dont look them in the eyes anymore

[untold mulch]

Oh definitely, a good chunk of people lack any empathy on the computer

[zealous wyvern]

and shame

usually, irl you can at least count on one of those to keep ppl in check

theyre either too decent to scream insults through walmart or theyre too empathic to treat honest workers like trash

but no online time to throw all sorts of vulgar mud anyones way who inconveniences you

[untold mulch]

Honestly I think people who lose all "empathy" through screen, had little in person anyways

[zealous wyvern]

disgusting

[untold mulch]

and are the type that are "civil" IRL only because laws/getting punched in the face

[zealous wyvern]

id say its a spectrum

[untold mulch]

Also yeah

Stuff needs a balance pass

[zealous wyvern]

i do hope they fix that but first, make the game playable again

[untold mulch]

but honestly they probably are too busy all hands on deck with the server issues

First make sure people can actually play

later balance so Breaker shotty is not the obvious pick

[zealous wyvern]

and the damn railgun is the only antiarmour weapon that works

[warm idol]

I hate this crap that you can either hate the game or love it and suck it's benis all the time

[zealous wyvern]

rockets take too long, lockon is weird or reload too long