veteran-class

[terse idol]

Damn math

[gusty bison]

Its anyone in the team

[terse idol]

😭

[mystic laurel]

I tried shredders once, but since I'm running the las gun, I didn't really have anything to contribute against the big bads

[gusty bison]

Its a normal distribution centered aroubd 20

[tall torrent]

Bring a melee that kills armor well

[muted knot]

That's fair what melee do you run ?

[mystic laurel]

I've been playing with power sword, but started really liking the chainsword on my zealot so just switched to that

[muted knot]

Powersword mk6 will handle all your crusher problems

If you happen to have a good one

[mystic laurel]

the vet doesn't have much bonuses for melee though, so I feel like I hit like a wet noodle compared to zealot... so I just use the sword for crowd control when I get swarmed

[gusty bison]

Its 20 elites/specials fwiw. But its not like auric damn is lacking in them

[muted knot]

Also try out the Hellbore lasgun sometime if you haven't already, it's one of my favorite Darktide weapons

[gusty bison]

Its easy. Thats what it is

[exotic spade]

hellbore with the stabbing attachment. mark 2 I think? best lazgun. the stab melee action it has stun locks ragers and gives you breathing room while also doing nice damage. it also attacks literally as fast as you can hit the button, no wind up time.

[gusty bison]

Like yea i agree plasma has an easier time killing a bulwark than volver. But volver has no issues either

Toss a nade, shoot the bulwark

[mystic laurel]

I haven't run the hellbore yet... just started trying the recon lasgun this weekend

[tall torrent]

Yea, simple, fast & effective

If u put a bunch of ragers next to a bulwark then ofc I know to drop nades lol

[exotic spade]

recon is the worst lazgun after they nerfed it IMO

[gusty bison]

Volver is also fast and effective

Its just not as braindead

[terse idol]

That's just expensive and clunky, this is why I put the plasma above because all it is

Is left click bulwark

[muted knot]

It's 1 and 2

[terse idol]

Dead

The more complexity you add on the more chance something could go wrong

[gusty bison]

Its not any less effective though

[muted knot]

Recon is sadly in a really bad place at the moment

[keen sedge]

Best gun to use for that one penace for 90% accuracy and no ammo?

[gusty bison]

Nor is it expensive

[tall torrent]

It’s good, you’re arguing semantics over here

[terse idol]

But it is more work

This is why I hate the plasmagun

[muted knot]

Revolver

[terse idol]

Ease of use

[gusty bison]

Ye agreed

Plasma is too easy

It plays the game for you

[exotic spade]

ah thank you.

[gusty bison]

In decently competent hands the revolver is the better weapon

[muted knot]

I can only recommend giving the mk 1 or 2 a try Mk3 is okay if you want the big damage rifle but it's really unwieldy

Personally I'm a mk1 enjoyer

[gusty bison]

Volver also is easy tbf

And needs some nerfs too

[mystic laurel]

I only just realized the mk versions actually behave very differently and they aren't just a direct upgrade lol

[gusty bison]

Volver having aim assist is stupid

[mystic laurel]

learned that last week lol

[muted knot]

Oh yeah it's a big difference for most of them

[muted knot]

Better late than never

[white minnow]

the pswords can easily reach the 3-shot BP on crushers/maulers

and the mk6 can reach a two-shot if you decide to build for that

[muted knot]

2 shot actually

Ah

[mystic laurel]

sigh... already so much to learn in this game and this is so much more info haha

[white minnow]

yeah it's not quite intuitive

and the sheer lack of a glossary

[muted knot]

Classic obese fish

[mystic laurel]

yeah, me and my buddy have been complaining about the lack of transparency about what things mean for a while

[white minnow]

shrimply have some programming experience (and maybe some statistics) to understand things

[tall torrent]

I find revolver easier than plasma tbh, better 1 shot consistency + easier to aim with

[white minnow]

i have to rely so much on people who can read the code to know what is going on

[gusty bison]

Eh plasma has perfect accuracy though.

And no suppression and also inf cleave

So like

[tall torrent]

Yea but the reticle is pretty bad

[gusty bison]

No matter how bad your positioning

You still can kill the guy

[tall torrent]

No suppression is one of the main reasons I run it, just can’t spare points elsewhere

Same reason I like Helbore & Laspistol

[gusty bison]

Honestly only one gun needs to take no suppression

Infantry las

The rest can livw without it

[mystic laurel]

so, I've only played for a couple weeks now, and just joined this discord and this is the first convo I'm having... can I ask, when doing random queues with pick up groups, what is generally expected of me in a party? Should I be really focused on dealing with threats at a range and expecting melee classes to help shield me from the closer swarms? Should I be running melee a lot until the range fire is absolutely necessary?

[tall torrent]

Boltgun too if ur playing DMR bolter

[gusty bison]

Bolter doesnt need it

Its a bunch of bodyshot breakpoints and its decently suppression resilient

Yea it gets knocked around a bit but u also have a bigger target to hit

[terse idol]

Just depends what you're building for with your guns

Or melee

[white minnow]

the classes don't quite have clearly-defined roles, so i'd say it's a play how you want and what's comfortable

[terse idol]

Nobody expects you to do anything but kill things

[gusty bison]

Reapers are prolly the most annoying for bolter but they have fat heads

[tall torrent]

Usually veteran’s job is to delete specialists & keep elites in check

[terse idol]

If you're building to kill gunners really good, kill gunners

[gusty bison]

Murder things.

Also murder trappers first

Always murder trappers first

[terse idol]

Like, I will say what you want to know how to do is hold your own

[tall torrent]

Bodyshot Crit BPs?

[gusty bison]

Ye

[mystic laurel]

ugh I hate the stupid trappers lol

[tall torrent]

Might need to try that

[gusty bison]

Gunners are bodyshot BPs

As is flamers

Ragers are both 1 tap crit heads

[muted knot]

Don't worry they hate you too

[tall torrent]

Do u have to run flak+maniac for that

[mystic laurel]

wait, so the weakpoint for gunners is body?

[gusty bison]

I think so

[tall torrent]

No, head

[gusty bison]

Head

Its just that bolter does so much damage it can 1 shot them in the body

[tall torrent]

That’s unfortunate I rolled unyielding + maniac

[gusty bison]

When built correctly

[tall torrent]

GG no Boltgun for me

[mystic laurel]

is there a list or chart somewhere for weakpoints for each enemy? that'd be nice to look at...

[gusty bison]

Run Focus target + Redirect fire

Should bring u over the edge

[white minnow]

weakspot is always the head for all enemies except the Beast of Nurgle (slug boss)

[mystic laurel]

I thought the little guys with no armor but a metal helmet it is the body?

[gusty bison]

The "weakspot" is still the head

[exotic spade]

Most enemies weak point is the head. Though Maulers will also take extra damage from their legs due to being unarmored...it just isn't a 'weak spot'

[tall torrent]

Still head

[gusty bison]

But their head has a stronger armor so some weapons want to go for the body

[mystic laurel]

dang alright

[gusty bison]

It dependa on how good ur weapon is at busting armour

[tall torrent]

U run deadshot Boltgun?

[exotic spade]

laz? hit the head.
volver? hit the head.
bolter? hit the body and watch it explode

[tall torrent]

The only 2 enemies where u may not want to aim for the head are scab mauler and beast of nurgle

[mystic laurel]

I ran a bolter for a bit, and it is a ton of fun, but so slow to swap and reload and aim, I had a really hard time with it unless I had good teammates backing me against flanking hordes.

the problem may just be my player skill, not being able to maintain awareness and keep up, but I feel like a lot of times I sight down my gun and I'm trying to deal with stuff at a distance and I'm just getting wiped out by flankers because teammates are off everywhere doing other things instead of sticking together

[exotic spade]

You need a fast melee weapon to pair with bolter. I use a combat knife with my bolter build. Mostly slice and dice and only put out the bolter for things like ragers, maulers, plague ogryns, etc

[mystic laurel]

yeah, I did a separate build focused more on speed and melee, and used bolter/plasma gun just for the big guys. use it primarily when I get queued with multiple other vets are folks who look like they have ranged builds. Don't feel like fighting over targets/ammo

[austere pine]

how does this blessing work?

[muted knot]

Please do not headshit the mauler with lasguns

[austere pine]

i was gonna ask for just automatic weapons but i don't get it even for semi auto weapons

[hollow ibex]

Tbh if I run bolter I usually have it out most of the match

[mystic laurel]

why not?

[hollow ibex]

It sucks. Just ignore it

[muted knot]

Your salvo ends when your recoil is fully reset

[hollow ibex]

[austere pine]

so basically only my 3rd and 4th shot get the bonus?

[muted knot]

Because mauler heads are carapace and lasguns have terrible carapace damage

[terse idol]

Every 3rd and 4th shot will deal 45% more damage and reset when your recoil fully settles

[muted knot]

Correct

[austere pine]

every 3rd and 4th

not as bad as i thought, still shit and now even nonsensical

[exotic spade]

I 2 tap them with hellbore one tap with a full charge and if they don't go down the fire downs them by the time they take 2 steps

[hollow ibex]

And then you have to stop firing

[muted knot]

Their body is flak which you do way better damage against

[muted knot]

Hellbore isn't the same as lasguns man

Hellbore has carapace damage

[exotic spade]

fair.

[muted knot]

The infantry lasguns will start crying

[exotic spade]

lol

[hollow ibex]

It’s weak spot damage so pretty bad on top of annoying proc conditions

[muted knot]

@mystic laurel have you been checking out weapons damage breakdowns ?

[austere pine]

genuinely depressing

[muted knot]

Wdym

That's great

[austere pine]

stability

[muted knot]

Doesn't matter

Like at all

[hollow ibex]

Not too much of an issue

[exotic spade]

oh. right. a lot of people don't find weapon damage breakdowns for awhile.

[muted knot]

This gun is practically a SMG

[muted knot]

Me back at launch lol

[mystic laurel]

dude, I'm trying, it is just soooo much info I don't understand lol

so many stats with so little explanation about how they work

[muted knot]

I understand, not trying to overload you

Damage breakdowns are pretty straight forward, it tells you how much damage you will do to what armor type

It gives you a good idea of what a weapon is good at

[exotic spade]

unless it is plasma, at which point the answer is just 'yes' on what it is good at

[junior needle]

A salvo is a period of continuous firing without letting your recoil reset. Magdumping 100 rounds nonstop is a salvo. Shooting 3 bullets and stopping is also a salvo.

[junior needle]

There was a pretty sizable difference in aiming at range when I used a 55ish stability one and one with 80%

[muted knot]

How often do you really need to do that tho, like yes it comes up a lot but it's rarely gonna be required

[exotic spade]

outside of sniping a sniper, you don't really NEED the ultra range stab. most things you are shooting at are inside of 20m and stability plats less importance there

[junior needle]

I enjoy smoother gun handling across the board so I'd rate it decently important

But that is just me, I hate it when my shit does this

[austere pine]

i'd say the same but then i use recon lasguns and i am terrified of the lack of recoil

[junior needle]

Let me take a video

[mystic laurel]

I wanna know the name of that phobia

[shadow dagger]

worth grabbing just for t4 blessing or nah

[junior needle]

This shit, neither the iron sights or the mod crosshair line up

It's shooting off into the distance above it

[terse idol]

Bad blessings

[shadow dagger]

aight

[junior needle]

Yeah there's only one weapon that actually wants an impact blessing to my knowledge

and that's the zealots crusher

I hate fatshark "recoil" so much

[white minnow]

yeah I have to use the weapon fov mod to make it line up

[exotic spade]

it is part of hoplophobia and agoraphobia overlapping.

[mystic laurel]

agoplophobia?

[exotic spade]

hoplo is fear of weapons, agora is fear of loss of control. overlap them and you have a fear of recoil

[mystic laurel]

but he said he feared the lack of recoil

and I thought agoraphobia was the fear of leaving your house (or whatever comfortable environment)

[exotic spade]

yeah agoplo prolly is better fitting then.

[mystic laurel]

I just mashed the two names together like a celebrity couple haha

[exotic spade]

lol

agoraphobia is fearing a loss of control, which often involes places/situations a person lacks control. which is why people eventually fear leaving their house.

[mystic laurel]

ah

I've always wanted to play an agoraphobic druid in D&D... he loves nature, just from afar

[exotic spade]

haha.

[spring spindle]

Silly general question. Which enemies are specialist and which are elite?

[mystic laurel]

ha, totally ridiculous question... (watches with great anticipation because I don't know either)

[timid otter]

Elites are enemies that actively try to shoot or hit you with things. Specialists try to throw bombs or disable you through various means such as pouncing, netting, being angry muties.

Smaller people that aim to shoot you or hit you are not elites.

This is a small people

[exotic spade]

specialists are called out in the relic list of defenses (bombers, flamers, etc.), elites are all the other named enemies you call out but aren't offered any specific things against.

the wierd thing is how we would classify them doesn't always...make sense? cause I would call a trapper a specialist but it takes extra damage from elite weapon mods. Or did last time I was tinkering with weapon buffs a few months ago.

[midnight totem]

is darktide working atm?

[faint beacon]

Steam went down so im suspecting it to be a bit

[junior needle]

Just played the most painful auric

My 3 teammates were using purple guns, went down constantly

Like bruh

[austere pine]

while i despise using mods to check for how good your teammates are (as you only do it to stroke your own ego most of the time), i had a psyker this run who constantly kept dying for mysterious reasons

[bitter turtle]

No

Trapper is specialist

[austere pine]

kept running off, running into hordes while on 1 wound

didn't see them use their blitz at all (kept using wall though. yes, wall)

[vague lintel]

Specialists make sounds when spawning

Idk if ive ever heard a snipers spawn noise tho

Just the footsteps

[timid otter]

Truly terrible does not need a scoreboard to see it.

[exotic spade]

There is a billow of air/footsteps when they spawn.

[faint beacon]

I think that's more so the point that or its really silent, mainly to catch you off guard

[vague lintel]

Yeah im with it since they make noise moving

And obv the laser

[spring spindle]

So trappers. Hound, mutant. Anything with fire

Crushers and gunners and stuff are elite (I get this mixed up all the time)

[bitter turtle]

Specialists all have unique attacks

Elites just hit you or shoot you harder than normal mobs

[spring spindle]

Gotcha

[hollow ibex]

Elites are already on the map. Specialists spawn in separately as the game goes

[bitter turtle]

That's another way to think about it

Though to note

Elites can spawn in

It's just that specialists are never pre placed

[hollow ibex]

Yeah

True

[placid portal]

gotta love having a patrol spawn ontop of you

[crimson veldt]

how Should I roll this, should i take a perk for Crit chance or Take Rampage R4?

[plush dragon]

probably rework crit chance into crit cleave as it helps mash through mobs with the native blessing crit chances. other than that the block efficiency is p meta esp for devils but if u want to capitalize on damage, swap it to flak dmg for medium units and +

[crimson veldt]

Thanks!

[raw steppe]

Replace block eff for flak

[trim steppe]

Case #7,945 of "I sure wish I could swap two stats around"

[raw steppe]

Dont listen to him lol if hes recommending devastating strike he has no clue

Assuming thats what he means by "crit cleave" LOL

it actually impresses me how confidently someone can proclaim shit that they straight up have no clue about

It's actually a little rude IMO because you're essentially bricking other people's stuff, and wasting other people's time and money

[muted knot]

I'm trying to decipher what the message actually says

Crit cleave ?

[trim steppe]

It's only rude if its malicious, if they just don't know then its just adding to the discussion (even if its staright up incorrect)

[muted knot]

Oh I see

I'm honestly more hung up on "...block efficiency is p meta..
"

[trim steppe]

Lol

[muted knot]

Like

[tiny summit]

Parry requires stam right?

[trim steppe]

Not if you time it right

[muted knot]

If I get 10 blocked attacks in a game Its high

[tiny summit]

Shows how much I don't use it

[muted knot]

I would love to use dclaw more if I had one that was even somewhat decent lol

[raw steppe]

it does require stam but it uses 80% less stam if you do a perfect parry

[muted knot]

It's a pretty cool sword

[raw steppe]

however, block eff is pointless

[trim steppe]

yeah for real. Is there even a single weapon on any class where you want block efficiency? I struggle to think of a case

[raw steppe]

there's a few reasons for that

[muted knot]

I guess you could get some mileage with slab shield

But even then

[raw steppe]

first is simply because darktide isn't a game where you block really

[trim steppe]

Even then you just use the special not the regular block

[raw steppe]

the existence of sliding, and the amount of raw power the player has from talents + blessings + perks

[muted knot]

Sometimes normal block works to get you out of a sticky situation

[raw steppe]

means you can utilize mobility and/or damage to force yourself out of situations rather than blocking

[tiny summit]

Block efficiency isn't bad but also...dodging and pushing. Only enemies I think of holding block in between dodges are ragers

[muted knot]

Bosses I guess

[tiny summit]

I guess that too

Ragers and bosses

[raw steppe]

the second issue with block eff is the fact that it is multiplicative

[trim steppe]

I think the only time I block, save for the occasional block/push when i'm getting swamped, is if a DH is on my ass. Mixed dodging and blocking to survive

[raw steppe]

instead of additive

so stacking it doesn't work that well

compared to a game like VT

where 30% + 20% = 50%; in DT, it doesn't calculate like that

[trim steppe]

but on a DC sword I'll be parrying, not blocking

[muted knot]

I block when I hear the woosh

That's about it

[trim steppe]

Because dodging and pushing is so much better, you'd almost always want stam regen over block eff, even in those cases

[trim steppe]

I'm still annoyed about this itemization lol

I still haven't found a well itemized chainsword that ended up rolling well

[raw steppe]

Wait and see if they'll address it in the next update

It might be something they'll prioritize cuz i think most of the egregious issues with the game are resolved

[muted knot]

outside of a lack of content

[raw steppe]

They're swedish

You can't complain about lack of content cuz the staunch defenders of european work culture will come defend it lol

[zealous wyvern]

disgusting

[muted knot]

I mean I get that

And I'm not even complaining

It's just what hits me the most

Like I'm just not playing at the moment

Cause I don't really wanna grind for perfect rolls

[austere pine]

i wanna make like a spec ops sneaky type vet with a combat knife (either of them. the "better" one preferably) and some unspecified gun (i don't have a preference [i do. anything but a shotgun and xv revolver])

[midnight totem]

alrighty

I finally gave in and installed the weapon customization mod

Why hasn't Fatshark hired this guy yet?

[austere pine]

anybody got a talent tree for this?

[raw steppe]

I am

Fuck the Europeans

And workers rights

[austere pine]

the americans will never get to experience the beauty of being paid semi-fairly and being treated with a reasonable amount of respect 😌

[shy maple]

you get paid more in the us though on average for anything that is somewhat skilled labor

[austere pine]

also pay a lot more for basic things

[raw steppe]

I'm actually not sure thats true lol

[shy maple]

like ?

[austere pine]

health care

never in my life have i had to pay more than $80 for something my insurance didn't cover

[raw steppe]

Well its only a problem if you're poor

If you're rich you usually have insurance

[austere pine]

if you're rich

[raw steppe]

Just stop being poor lol

[austere pine]

let's not get into the philosophy of who gets to live a good life though

i wanna know how to invis shank some elites as vet

[midnight totem]

easy

[shy maple]

define rich

[midnight totem]

pull out melee

stealth

shank enemy

[austere pine]

okay but how to do that to a point where i'm not getting flamed by my teammates?

[shy maple]

like this notion that stuff like healthcare etc is free is just delusional

[raw steppe]

Its not free lol

You just make everyone pay for it

[shy maple]

ofc it isnt

yeah and gl ifyou need to see a specialist and arent an urgent case gg see ya in y ear or so lmao

[raw steppe]

And I'm not paying for those unhealthy fatasses who need triple bypass surgery cuz theyre 500lb

That's just ridic lol

Yeah i mean there's a reason why everyone who needs complex surgery

Comes to the US

To do it

[shy maple]

was rather talking about specialised doctors e.g. dermatologists etc

gl seeing anything but a gp in europe unless you are privately insured / or need urgent care lol

[austere pine]

just to be sure, have you experienced european healthcare? either of you?

[frank basin]

That’s only simple you say none of poor can get upper economical class.

[shy maple]

im european

so yeah i have and for the general stuff its ok but for anything else you get fucked anyway

[frank basin]

Wydm?

[junior needle]

Here in america you can get charged like 7k for a bandage

Oh excuse me, it was 8.7k

Freedom monies

[frank basin]

I watched Adam conover about healthcare system is rigged

[toxic leaf]

anyone wonder why the largest, most valuable companies in the world all started in america and not yurop

[frank basin]

Capitalism homeland

[junior needle]

European mainland got demolished in two world wars consecutively?

[toxic leaf]

yea its not like google and apple sprang up in the roaring 1950s

[frank basin]

Asia also have major company too

Samsung as example

Sony

[junior needle]

Actually no

It's because of our freedom

Also bald eagles

[frank basin]

Freedom to take advantage other people and countries?

[junior needle]

Democratize any country that has oil

But this is severely off topic

[frank basin]

Healthcare is not free and expensive feel like is rigged

What about health insurance?

[shy maple]

pretty simple for most basic medical necessities you are covered but if you need a specialist for anything else and arent an urgent case you gotta wait a long ass time

also in most european countries prescription glasses and most dental work arent covered lmao

atleast not to any real extent

[flint lake]

Don’t get sick and it’s free

[frank basin]

People overwork get sick easily

[frank basin]

Yes that what I stay in 5 day emergency hospital without insurance. Freenium wait and premium get fast lane.

[shy maple]

like i had to wait for like 6 months to get an appointment at my dermatologist

[austere pine]

do i need a keystone as veteran?

[shy maple]

you can do without

[bitter turtle]

depends on the gun and build

[frank basin]

I have wait 3 month for my psychiatrist but cancel since my insurance is not cover and wait another month to find other doctor that does cover.

[bitter turtle]

to be honest, nowadays, id suggest taking a keystone

[shy maple]

yeah but the good thing about vet is you are free to not take one

[toxic leaf]

mark the target is pretty free, the center path is valuable shit on it you want

[austere pine]

marksman's focus is wonky. pinging isn't something i wish to do with this specific build. weapons specialist won't work

[bitter turtle]

what's the gun

and build

[austere pine]

gun is columbus infantry autogun

[bitter turtle]

why wont weapon specialist work

[frank basin]

Do you know where european taxes dollar go? @shy maple

[austere pine]

cuz the percentages won't work? i dunno

[bitter turtle]

its largely a melee buff

unless you just dont use your melee weapon

[austere pine]

was an infiltrate build so maybe might

my talent tree broke

[bitter turtle]

oh

if its infiltrate

[toxic leaf]

arent you taking rending as columbus

[bitter turtle]

i might see u not taking a keystone

you're already taxed

[austere pine]

yeah cuz i kinda like all 4 extras on inf

[bitter turtle]

uh

dont take all 4

[austere pine]

which one bad?

threat?

[bitter turtle]

low profile/hunter resolve dont make sense together

nothing bad

but

why would you need toughness dmg reduction

if u have -90% aggro

at the same time

[austere pine]

truth

[bitter turtle]

so u usually take one or the other

i think surprise attack is not worth the point eithe rpersonally

but that's just me

and how I play infil i guess

idk id try this if you dont need desperado actually

https://i.gyazo.com/5d4bf98990fddf63d48c125b69148517.png

[austere pine]

does this work with krak grenades instead of frag?

i love krak a little too much

[bitter turtle]

frags are a million times better but

if you insist on krak

here

i would do this then

[shy maple]

mainly pension funds / healthcare system / bureaucracy

[bitter turtle]

do you want survivalist

[austere pine]

i like seeing the monstrosity hp bar go poof

[idle swallow]

they're addicted to krak kokaine

[bitter turtle]

if you drop shredder frag you might as well drop survivalist too if you dont need it

[austere pine]

yes

[bitter turtle]

oh

sad life then

[frank basin]

That’s reasonable. I heard free education also a budget they spent too.

[austere pine]

hey i can try frags

i like the krak. sticky and boom

[bitter turtle]

https://i.gyazo.com/024c6efff2596d8fc5383c8b0e0a6764.png

maybe tehis then

might as well dip into 10% melee and agile engagement if you're taking krak

a shame u still go surv and waste like 3 points routing around but w/e

this becomes very melee dependent though tbh

well

colu is op enough that it prob doesnt matter

[idle swallow]

That zig zag just to grab survivalist hurts the soul

[hollow ibex]

Kinda an important aura usually

[idle swallow]

It's good but so many points used

[hollow ibex]

Yeah

[austere pine]

i'll do this

[bitter turtle]

i usually dont take survivalist on infil builds tbh

[hollow ibex]

The infill tax is real

[bitter turtle]

yeah give it a try

you dont need kraks for crushers

onslaught is already picked up on the way to keystone

[austere pine]

but me like 😭

[bitter turtle]

so you can just shoot them

ngl

the higher in difficulty you go

the worse krak feels

a pack of crushers sounds like the optimal use case for krak

but like

killing 1 or 2 of them barely solves the problem

its actually better just to shove 2 frags on them, knock them down for a good 10+ seconds while killing everything around them

im also completely on the out for blood + sprint efficiency + movespeed train now

but

'if you want to go CK you can still

(talking about the fact that i went right at the top of the tree)

[austere pine]

thinking of switching these two into grenade tinkerer

unless tinkerer bad

[bitter turtle]

while tinkerer is pretty decent

i would not

if anything

you can swap them into +10% rending or +20% monstro damage

precision strikes is quite significant for both your melee and your gun in this case

since colu has good finesse values

for comparison, dropping precision makes your headshot against scab gunners go from 290 -> 240 on my columnus

[austere pine]

oof

keeping it the way you suggested then

[bitter turtle]

there's another way to play it too btw

[austere pine]

what would be the melee of choice here?

[bitter turtle]

let me give another tree that's more gun-focused

[austere pine]

(please don't say chain axe)

[bitter turtle]

also rashad or psword would be optimal but anything really works tbh

[austere pine]

not very experienced with vet power swords

[bitter turtle]

https://i.gyazo.com/53ca19e100cdb27e3c3764db20f1d214.png

gun focused

but

be warned it has deadshot meme

[austere pine]

even less experienced with axes

[bitter turtle]

u use tag to restore stamina not really for dmg as much

hell maybe even consider dropping superiority ocmplex + ammo for ogryn dmg and duck and dive but idk

[bitter turtle]

what melee do you play then

[austere pine]

i like chainswords

and i like pswords, just not used to them yet

[bitter turtle]

yeah you know i like that idea better, changing the tree

you need all the stam you can get

and chainsword is fine

anything is fine really

the columnus works on any build

its very

all purpose

so you can shore up any weakness on your melee just by applying gun the right way

on teh gun-focused build though, i'd strongly suggest taking a melee that can deal with carapace

since you lose onslaught

or even take krak i guess

https://i.gyazo.com/90d9d0cf127a73b8a5c120c921619c48.png

if you really like krak, you could definitely justify taking it here, so maybe?

[austere pine]

rending is cool so i'll keep the original one

do you have all these premade or are you making them on the fly?

[bitter turtle]

making them on the fly

[austere pine]

wow

[bitter turtle]

its not that impressive, there's just some very good talents on the tree and you're strangled even more for points because infil

that's why I changed one of them immediately after posting them, realized it might be better just to drop 2 things for 2 other things

[austere pine]

i'm gonna cry

[bitter turtle]

what is that, your chainsword?

[austere pine]

psword

[bitter turtle]

oh

rough

[paper furnace]

elites isnt that bad

[austere pine]

this seems goood though

[bitter turtle]

does it even give anything for psword bps?

let me test

and at least cycler 3 is mandatory for ps6

so that's good

you know how to play weapon specialist keystone right?

[austere pine]

yeah p much

rack up melee kills, switch to gun, kill shit, switch back to melee

unless my revolver shenanigans have me deceived

[bitter turtle]

nop[e

that's about right

you know

eh

i guess its fine

i just realized with this tree you probably cant 2 shot crusher with psword

[muted knot]

Then it's 2 charged lights and a uncharged

Which should still do the job

[bitter turtle]

nah

this might be better

https://i.gyazo.com/ee6829fc522b2837e6e786ab4c1d4c43.png

ur gun cant kill crushers anymore

but

imo worth

just run + carapace on psword

gives you the 2 shot

assuming you still use psword ofc

[magic trout]

Is acatran lasrifle mk2 worth it?
I got a 380 today

[bitter turtle]

the recon?

no its terrible

[magic trout]

yes

[bitter turtle]

one of the worst guns, no

[magic trout]

Ok, thanks

[bitter turtle]

also keep in mind

380 doesnt mean good

youw ant the stats to be distributed in the right areas

for recons iirc the only damage stat they have is damage

so if its not even 80 damage then its not even a very good 380

ideally you'd probably want maxed damage and ammo in a recon's case just because they do no damage and hose ammo, stability is meaningless when they have no recoil and collateral is meme

[magic trout]

Yeah i know but i am a braced autogun user i dont know much about lasrifles beacuse of that i asked first before investing because it has 4 stat with 80%.

[austere pine]

braced autoguns, my beloved

[bitter turtle]

the recons are universally pretty garbage but 2 is bad even among them

if you do insist on using ar econ someday

the least bad one is 6d

[magic trout]

Thanks

[junior needle]

Can confirm, probably the lowest dps gun in the game

[frank basin]

Which brauto you use? Agripinna or Graia?

[junior needle]

Some weapons just aren't balanced to a decent standard and recons are 3 of them

[austere pine]

wait does veteran have decrease sprint stamina usage or am i tweaking?

[frank basin]

If you use Vanguard talent it decrease rate consume stamina for -20%

[bitter turtle]

it does

on the right side

i pick it up on the tree because i have converted to the right side being my preferred side on most guns lul

but if you want confirmed kill down the middle (more standard build) feel free to swap it

it changes nothing about point economy

[austere pine]

power sword funny

not used to not having the little movement speed boost on heavies but it's not terrible

[magic trout]

both

[stoic jetty]

Completely bricked?

[burnt arch]

Level 17 pretty new any off the bat tips for a noob?

[raw steppe]

Its ok

[tiny summit]

It's fine.

[raw steppe]

Keep elites and keep gets hot

[frank basin]

Aye! 😄 Well i like Graia

[vocal cipher]

beware of crushers, they are the stealthiest enemy

[austere pine]

don't chase trappers

@bitter turtle what perks for columbus and mk6 psword?

[burnt arch]

Crushers are the ones that charge you?

[austere pine]

the heavily armored ogryns with a big rock mace

[vocal cipher]

what hope said, the ones that charge you are mutants.

[woeful ibex]

Slaugtherer and Power Cycler (Power Sword)

[hollow ibex]

for ps6, brutal momentum or sunder + pc4. for columnus, dumdum and whatever

slaughterer on ps6 is overshadowed by brumentum/sunder

perks for PS are usually unyielding/manic/cara

for columnus, maniac/flak

[hollow ibex]

don't worry about the crafting system until you hit level 30

and play the other classes, don't just play one class

[bitter turtle]

dumdum+firefrenzy/deathspitter for damage
dumdum + stripped down for utility
dumdum + raking fire for boss dmg memes

for columnus

someone already answered you for ps6

also flak + maniac for colu

[magic trout]

Strangely accurate 😅

[tall torrent]

Learn how to minimize dmg u take in melee

[mystic laurel]

how do you minimize the damage you take in melee?

[muted knot]

Timing your dodges, managing distance and controlling hordes

That's the basics really

I keep seeing people go into kissing range of hordes and it makes me mad

There's a time for that

But not always

[white minnow]

spamming dodges is also pretty safe

[muted knot]

Really ? I tend to run into my Dodge limit too much

[white minnow]

yeah i'm a bit more careful if i'm out of efficient dodges

[mystic laurel]

I'm always with pick up groups who always run off in every direction so I get close to hordes a lot because they are swarming me on all sides lol

[white minnow]

but otherwise it's just spam dodges -> wait for them to refresh -> spam again

[muted knot]

It's less about getting close and more about stuffing your face into the horde

[white minnow]

you get something similar to i-frames against melee attacks when you dodge, though the game makes an extra check for how close you are
so it's a combination of timing and your distance to an enemy that decides if you dodge it

[muted knot]

Please never be afraid to pull out your melee it's a melee centric game after all

[mystic laurel]

I always attempt to stay back and do fire support if I can... but sometimes if I have to address one myself, I just pull out a sword and hack them down

[muted knot]

Also: use your push!

It's really good

[tall torrent]

Block, dodge, keep toughness at full as much as possible (kill things fast)

Don’t trade blows with ragers unless u can reliably stagger them out of their combos

Push push & other tools (grenades for veteran) to make space for movement

Etc etc

[mystic laurel]

I just try to keep that as my last option, to keep my gun ready in case a specialist pops up suddenly

[muted knot]

Not a huge issue usually depending on what weapon your run

If you have a bolter or Hellbore you're gonna suffer

[mystic laurel]

I think what I'm hearing here, is that my usual tactic of spamming dodge backwards while button mashing and screaming manically is spot on and my gaming prowess has no room for improvement

[muted knot]

Actually another point that makes hellbore really good: you have a godly bayonet that's better than a most melee weapons

[tall torrent]

This depends on your gun

[muted knot]

Funnily enough dodging backwards sometimes gets you hit with those long reaching bruiser attacks

[tall torrent]

Usually when you need to get specialists / elites out quickly, try to use grenades or ability to make space

Frags are excellent at that

[mystic laurel]

every time baby, every time

I always carry kraks because I'm usually running lasguns of some sort and need the anti armor

[white minnow]

bruiser running attacks are a fuckin menace

[tall torrent]

I’d say, gradually try to make yourself more comfortable to fighting elites in melee

Relying on kraks to kill carapace is a bad habit

The game will almost always spawn more armored enemies than the amount of grenades at your disposal, and you don’t have many kraks available at a time

[mystic laurel]

I think you just don't understand my skill level. By the time I've thrown 3 grenades, my party has either carried me and killed them all, or I've been dead for a while 🤣

[tall torrent]

What difficulties have u mainly been playing

[mystic laurel]

level 3

so basically about to go pro

[tall torrent]

That’s the perfect difficulty for honing melee basics imo

[bitter turtle]

just swing away while weaving dodge and push inbetween

block if you need to but try not to block too much

for chaff at least

[mystic laurel]

I'm fine with hordes, and I've gotten good enough to handle most elites 1v1 or 1v2... but more than that and I get stuck with too much stuff blocking my movement

[bitter turtle]

for rager -> use gun, not worth engaging them in melee most of the time unless they are alone and you have a weapon that can stagger them

mauler/crusher -> literall yjust dodge to the side when they wind up their attack, packs fo them are a little more dangerous and try to kite them while getting hits in/use gun if applicable

bulwark -> wait for them to attack with their club, hit them in the head

[mystic laurel]

ragers I try to shoot, but if not, I try to dodge sideways and get behind them with charged attacks to stagger

[tall torrent]

For ragers it really depends

Unless you’re using DC sword or something that can reliably stagger them out of their combos and kill them quickly, you don’t want to be fighting them in melee

They are fast & relentless, and can very quickly overwhelm you

Use grenades to stagger / deal high dmg

[bitter turtle]

even if your weapon can stagger, the problem is

[mystic laurel]

like I said, I try to avoid it if possible

[bitter turtle]

2 or more rager

suddenly one doesnt get staggered and combo you

[tall torrent]

Block their attacks and dodge back, buy time for ur team

[serene bough]

yeah usually trying to dance with 3 or more ragers just ends in death

[tall torrent]

You have to make space when fighting ragers

[bitter turtle]

basically in that situation u just need to have good positional awareness

im assuming u mean in a scenario where there's like a line of bulwarks approaching

you just need to back up while getting stray hits in until their formation breaks up

or you can get behind them

if your back is already to a wall then you did something wrong

that or they spawned a bunch just as you jumped down a ledge or something, but that is what shredder frags are for

[faint beacon]

https://medal.tv/games/warhammer-40000-darktide/clips/1VkP7xzErWQ8Ur/d1337rwa5mH9?invite=cr-MSx5b1csMTA3NDAxNTczLA

managed to get the shovel stagger down on Mutant's

Won't lie its probably not effective at all but its hilarious

[bitter turtle]

yoou know

that looks sick and all

but man

you coul dhave just started hitting with shovel

lmao

right after the stagger

and probably killed it before it charged again

[faint beacon]

Honestly been forcing myself to learn it more and more so its second nature with some of my shovel builds, but yeah it would've been effective seeing its a Deci Shovel

[serene bough]

i used to use the shovel a lot and I dont think i ever bothered trying to stagger it

just dodged and whacked it to death

[bitter turtle]

it seem spractical

if you know it will charge past you

just not the part where you swap to gun and start shooting lol

[faint beacon]

Literally just use special on their head and it staggers

[serene bough]

unlimited firepower

[faint beacon]

I think something in my head went

yeah you have a lot of ammo, use it

[amber cliff]

which special enemy could you lot take, realistically

[faint beacon]

what a 3 stack Psyker match does to a Veteran

IRL?

[amber cliff]

yeah

[serene bough]

plogryn

[amber cliff]

I think rager maybe

or scab flamer

[faint beacon]

Scab Gunner

[serene bough]

realistically the dog is probably the easiest kill

considering the rest are either trained soldiers or mutated horrors

[faint beacon]

Anyone who says DH is insane

[amber cliff]

Oh you thought i meant fight

????????

[serene bough]

plogryn is still my answer

[amber cliff]

HAhahaha

[faint beacon]

weeps

[amber cliff]

nice nice

[serene bough]

chaos spawn could reach a special audience id imagine

[left crag]

if 1 rager, melee with chain weapon is fine, they do this little cute dance when you rev attack them

[tall torrent]

If u have bloodletter u can fight multiple wagers a lot better

[paper brook]

So for a Zarona what's better? Crucial or Crucian Roulette with WS?

[terse idol]

You want surgical

And uhh, hand cannon

Agrinapinna revolver benefits most from cruccian

But you aim down alooot with the zarona

[paper brook]

I've seen people say running Crucian combined with weapon specialist works better for ensuring crits

[terse idol]

I can only see that on Agri

Simply because you're not spamming shots with the Zarona

[paper brook]

What's the difference between Agri and Zarona virus?

[terse idol]

Even with weapon spec, it allows you to get 1 gueanteed from a snap fire

And then be able to get more guranteed crit from surgical rather than roll the dice to maybe get some crits wit crucian

[terse idol]

The Zarona allows you to aim down sights and make pin point and very damaging shots from long ranges

The agri revolver let's you brace to fan the hammer

And put 5 shots down range very quickly

But it suffers more at range

[paper brook]

Alright even with Surgical is it still best to run Weapon Specialist?

[terse idol]

Yeah imo at least

Agri with cruccian
zarona with surgical

Basically

Both work very well with weapon spec regardless

[paper brook]

Yeah I was thinking about switching to Surgical since I'm having to ADS a lot with the Zarona since hipfire tends to be very inaccurate in my experience

[terse idol]

Yeep

Exactly

And tier 4 surgical gives you crits on ADS faast

Even t3 aint too shabby

[paper brook]

Yee I've been trying to roll for a t4 since I only currently have T3 Surgical

[terse idol]

Weapon spec does just also let you loose a guranteed crit with the zarona from hip fire so it's not bad if you know you can hip fire a headshot

[wild vortex]

Hello vets, is there any autogun that has proper sights rather than iron sights?

Or is that only restricted to lasguns?

[terse idol]

Right now yeah

[wild vortex]

Damn that sucks

[terse idol]

You can mod it in

[tall torrent]

Infantry autogun iron sights are pretty good tho

Reminds me of MP7 from cod

[wild vortex]

Oh really??

Guess I need to get that mod

I hate using basic iron sights on autoguns

[white minnow]

i also recommend the weapon fov mod to make the sights align with where the bullets actually go once the recoil gets going

[terse idol]

Find the darktide modding discooord, and you too can get the wapon customization mod

[wild vortex]

Y Fatshark do dis

[junior needle]

This isn't cod, immeasurable complexity, goes against the setting, it's snowing in sweden, next week, etc

[raw steppe]

you load up everybody in the morningstar's inventory

in addition to your own

^^ that shit is the most hilarious shit i've ever seen

[slender turtle]

This isnt cod but uhh... the mourningstars got an interesting past time

[gilded wraith]

Weird question, is automatically reloading 1 and only 1 bullet (without hitting the reload key) when a zarona is empty normal?

[candid vapor]

Any lore experts know why the vets have some big ass bling around their necks

Like, giant dinnerplate necklaces

[stable socket]

you can cancel out of the zarona reload at any point by attempting to fire - the easiest way to replicate "only reload 1 bullet" is to empty the zarona and keep mashing the fire key, so once the first bullet is put back in the gun, LMB will cancel the animation and put the gun back into "ready to fire" mode

[candid vapor]

I've discovered it. It because the (GERMAN) secret police wore them irl and the Imperium kinda pulls heavily from WWII aesthetics

[hollow ibex]

it's just Feldgendarmerie

so military police

[gilded wraith]

Thank you, whatever I was encountering seems to be fixed now. I was only clicking fire once, then immediately reloading 1 bullet. Very odd, but gave stamina time to start regening for deadshot.

[fresh saddle]

gorgets have been part of military uniforms for a while

they started off as armor and then became ornamental

in Warhammer 40k, i think some gorgets have refractor fields built into them for the individual wearer

[austere mica]

I think they mean the giant Aquila and rosette necklaces

[candid vapor]

Yes my question has been answered please don't ping me for the next 3 hours like you guys did last time I asked a question

[austere pine]

does power cycler 4 exist?

[hollow ibex]

not when you need it

[austere pine]

because using psword 6 with cycler 3 and using the push-parry charge cancel makes me only able to use one hit to actually horde clear

which is depressing

[hollow ibex]

yeah pc3 is just a pain

i stopped using ps until i got pc4

[austere pine]

but like, what i'm asking is, has pc4's existence been confirmed?

[hollow ibex]

dozens of us have it, dozens!

[austere pine]

no way in hel

bro what are these perks and blessing

[hollow ibex]

F

slaughterer is useable at least

[faint beacon]

If you somehow get Power Cycler its salvageable

[torn inlet]

if you already have PC4 its perfectly fine. it isn't god roll but just fine

just slap on PC and replace the stamina

or even keep stamina if you love melee

[late hatch]

specialist isnt the worst it could be

[faint beacon]

Specialist is, "okay" I'd say

[late hatch]

i personally would probably keep that over stam, unless you push attack a lot stam is pretty bad on a ps imo

[faint beacon]

its far better than others

but not as good as some others

[austere pine]

i only have pc3

[torn inlet]

its just short of god tier. its perfectly serviceable high tier PS

[austere pine]

this one i'll definitely keep

my current one is like a 340

with a garbage stat spread

i have like a 37% cleave

[torn inlet]

hurray for upgrades

[late hatch]

finesse rolled lower than mobi so its a little eh too. but it depends how much you are pushing for auric hist weapons vs normal damn

[faint beacon]

On a PS as well hurts

[torn inlet]

the 37% cleave doesn't matter since the base cleave with charge is huge anyway

[austere pine]

should mention low finesse on it, too, so low attack speed

[torn inlet]

yeah but if you don't have the skills for auric, it doesn't matter what your gear is.... while any rationally chosen end game gear is doable for players with enough skill / hardware lol

[austere pine]

garbage cleave + bad finesse + pc3 instead of pc4 and yoou have a horrible time

[late hatch]

true, but real godrolls will help someone pushing HIST compared to mediocre to good stats

[torn inlet]

nah. it is basically a skill cliff. more like a 1 vs 0

you'll either have enough or you won't, with gear being extremely minor benefit vs say, dodging that boss attack

and being able to deal with that giant horde lol

[austere pine]

hadron hates me

[torn inlet]

i'm not saying you should be able to do them with grays (though hypothetically some combinations could work) but most readily obtainable / rationally end game gear is sufficient for a player with enough skill.

there are really tiny margins of benefit that don't matter compared to actually dealing with lag, skill, etc.

[late hatch]

but hitting the breakpoints can benefit greatly. 2 shotting vs 3 shotting headshots on elites and specialists for example makes a huge diff. its painful when you have to swing an extra time to kill that flamer or trapper while you have 4 crushers breathing down your neck

[torn inlet]

its just a flex though, such breakpoints are hypothetical. you're also miscalculating because you forget there are other teammates

[raw steppe]

yeah i mean obviously being more skilled at the game can overcome issues

[torn inlet]

not being skilled enough means no gear is enough

[raw steppe]

but the difference between knowing you one-shot stuff vs needing 2 shots

[late hatch]

and a little extra attack speed can make that .2sec diff between killing and having block back up vs being mid swing still

[raw steppe]

is actually pretty good

[torn inlet]

knowing you need two shots means yon cadapt for it.

if you don't even know that though...

you're screwed

[raw steppe]

yeah but why adapt when I can just gear and oneshot it

obviously no amount of gear will help dogshit players

[torn inlet]

you need to adapt actually oen way or another

otherwise you're overshooting

[raw steppe]

but i think you're understating how much impact having properly rolled weapons has

[torn inlet]

Nah. its proveable mathmetically per gear, plus the fact that its a TEAM game means you have other factors than your own personal damage. the maximum effect is if you tried to solo

[pearl granite]

working nicely in damnation auric with survivalist and weapon specialist build

[torn inlet]

There's a lot of stuff that isn't gear based too lol

[raw steppe]

I mean you'll have drastically different performance regardless of your personal skill

[torn inlet]

the funniest of which being killing mini bosses via elevators

Nah, the top end gear is within like 95% of each other

[raw steppe]

with a 25% cara/unyield pc4 bm ps6 vs a gray one

that's just a fact lmao

[torn inlet]

See above. Rationally chosen gear

gray can be upgraded to gold and patched with 2 slots

[late hatch]

why do pro players use better computer equipment? coz slight diff in comfort and stuff makes a diff. you can buy a MS mouse for $10 that is effectively the same as a $100 logi or razer or w.e but slight upgrades in gear whether IRL or in game can make a decent diff.

[torn inlet]

anyone can get a high rolled gray, and upgrade to gold, then patch 2 of the slots

[raw steppe]

2 slot weapon vs 4 slot weapon is a big diff lol

[torn inlet]

there is still some issue learning blessings, that's a bit rng (unless patches have fixed that), but you can slap replace 2 slots

nah, its not that much of a difference

you're getting 90-95% of already overperforming weapons

[raw steppe]

lol

[late hatch]

5% is a big diff. if you get into high end gaming its a world of diff

[raw steppe]

no way lmao

even a 3 slot vs 4 slot is a huge difference

[torn inlet]

game isn't that hard. no

[raw steppe]

due to the perks being 25%

the game is easy lol but it's delusional to think that the perks/blessings don't matter

[torn inlet]

you aren't getting 25% better

Its delusional to think you're getting a god tier benefit to a high end player. you aren't.

[late hatch]

sorry but that is a dumb take. otherwise everyone would be top rank in any game they played a lot, but most people sit in mid ranks, while only a % or 3 are considered actually good, and mostly only the top 0.1% can actually make money from gaming

[torn inlet]

any high end player that can already complete auric/etc can do so with a random high end gray they slap 2 slots into

[raw steppe]

of course

but they would 100% perform worse

with shit gear

[torn inlet]

well, not completely random

[raw steppe]

compared to good gear LOL

[torn inlet]

its not shit gear thoughh

[raw steppe]

well a high end gray with 2 slots slapped is quite a bit worse than a BiS rolled with 4 slots

[torn inlet]

Once you're at end game, you have blessings unlocked, and can easily afford to roll a 370 gray in

[raw steppe]

for example, let's say with a power sword

which 2 slots

are you putting onto it

[torn inlet]

Let's use the PS example then

What do you think are the worst PS perks are right now? arguably

[raw steppe]

ok so let's say you go blessings, you instantly lose 25% cara/unyielding; meaning you drop a BP on crushers, you drop a BP on bulwarks, and you do 25% less damage to bosses.

[torn inlet]

There are no perks that are completely cursed

[raw steppe]

if you don't go blessings, you give up BM or PC

[torn inlet]

They might be minimally useful, but they aren't cursed

[bitter turtle]

groaner damage

does literally nothing

unless you uh

[late hatch]

infested damage

[bitter turtle]

regularly hit them with an unpowered sword

i guess

[torn inlet]

unless you light tap using a MK6 lol

[bitter turtle]

for whatever reason

[torn inlet]

There's two PS in this case

[raw steppe]

and giving up PC or BM is just fucking lol

[torn inlet]

MK3 and MK6, and MK6 you want to light attack

[white minnow]

crit dmg and sprint eff OwO

[bitter turtle]

mk6 oneshots groaners with power on

regardless of how you build it

[raw steppe]

like yeah obviously good players can overcome the difficulty of having shitty gear

[bitter turtle]

unless idk maybe a 0 dmg one??? maybe

i never tested

like literally a 0 dmg roll

[raw steppe]

but saying good gear doesn't matter is just a crazy take

[torn inlet]

right, but you don't need to power on MK6

[bitter turtle]

i mean you should

you're better off using literally anything else if you attack with unpowered sword

[torn inlet]

nah, god tier gear is marginal benefit over good gear

that's the actual take

[raw steppe]

but it's not lol

i literally just gave you

[torn inlet]

yep

[raw steppe]

the PS example

[bitter turtle]

i really wouldn't say that, at least given the number you say (within 95%)

[torn inlet]

your example is bunk lol

[raw steppe]

which you weren't even able to defend

because I straight up named the BPs that you drop

[bitter turtle]

the TTK increases by more than 5% for some guns

just because it takes 2 shots instead of 1, or 3 shots instead of 2, etc

[raw steppe]

and a 4 slot revolver for example

with flak maniac

is able to hit a few breakpoints on flamers, gunners, etc

that it is not able to do so

[torn inlet]

you just mentioned how PS can still one shot regardless here.

[raw steppe]

without hc + flak + maniac

[bitter turtle]

you were asking about literally useless perks

[torn inlet]

nah, you're being disingenuous. i was talking about something else here and you didn't address it

[bitter turtle]

if we're talking about useless perks, properly built, PS6 can oneshot a bulwark

[raw steppe]

revolver drops 3 breakpoints IIRC, gunner, flamer and trapper; and PS drops bulwark oneshot and crusher 2 shot

[bitter turtle]

meanwhile unproperly built it 2 shots it

[raw steppe]

if not properly built

[bitter turtle]

so that's a 100% increase in ttk

or a 50% decrease in ttk

depending on how you look at it

[torn inlet]

yes, and i said that it'll still apply to mk6 for light attacks. However, as you point out, the TTK is not changed here

[bitter turtle]

yes, for a useless perk

that wa smy point

its a useless perk

it does absolutely nothing

like you literally might as well have a blank slot there

[torn inlet]

TTK doesn't change regardless

is one of the points

[bitter turtle]

it changes for the useful perks though

[torn inlet]

For groaners?

lol

[bitter turtle]

the whole reason i cited it as a useless perk is because it changes nothing

no not for groaners, my point is if you built a ps6 with anything to do with groaners you might as well have left the slot empty

[torn inlet]

Its not a useless because TTK does change in unpowered attacks, but for powered yes your TTK doesn't change

[bitter turtle]

nobody attacks with unpowered ps6

[torn inlet]

this statement only furthers the point that sometimes the other slots don't matter

[bitter turtle]

the other slots dont matter when you pick something literally useless

[torn inlet]

yeah no. that's not true

objectively

[bitter turtle]

nobody intentionally attacks wtih unpowered ps6*

[austere mica]

Nobody doing it right attacks unpowered

[bitter turtle]

lul

[raw steppe]

sometimes I misclick

and i attack unpowered LOL

[bitter turtle]

ill admit sometimes ive clicked unpowered by complete accident

[torn inlet]

also some people do intentionally do so, even if you don't

[austere mica]

Unless I’m being a lazy ass an actually gimping myself stabling like 2 bruisers

[bitter turtle]

some people also intentionally throw themselves off the map, i dont think we need to consider people intentionally memeing

the ps6 is really weak if you dont power it

like probably the worst melee weapon in teh game

[austere mica]

Wow I can spell tonight

[late hatch]

horsey bruisers

[torn inlet]

stablings are fun

[bitter turtle]

either way, point is just that the ttk changes quite significantly depending on how you build the weapon

v7 is a good example

[austere mica]

I can never type on touch keyboard when eepy

[white minnow]

well, +groaner damage does make it easier to reach an unpowered light one-shot esp with melee talents

[bitter turtle]

without surgical/DA you're looking at 3 or 4 shots to kill a maniac

flamer

[white minnow]

but the benefit of that is less pronounced on a gray mk6 without BM

[bitter turtle]

with surgical/DA its 1 shot

i dont think you can call that "within 95% performance"

[torn inlet]

the point isn't that though, the point is how much stronger is 2 slots vs 4, and how much it'll affect a skilled player

[bitter turtle]

i mean

i literally just listed out an example

its quite a great deal stronger

[torn inlet]

cause you are pretty much guaranteed 370 gray

[bitter turtle]

as for how it affects a skilled player

that obv depends on the player of course

[torn inlet]

and you are guaranteed 2 slots

[bitter turtle]

some people win with grey weapons

well, lets suppose you roll surgical/DA and the perks are absolute trash

that also is really bad for v7

[austere mica]

No perks as well

[torn inlet]

right and gray weapons, even without blessings/perks , have inherent value

[bitter turtle]

your gunner kills go from 1 shot to 2 shot instead

and gunner is one of the most common enemies you are supposed to pick off with v7

[torn inlet]

Some weapons will be more affected by upgrade slots than others

[bitter turtle]

case in point:

https://i.gyazo.com/facbe3ebb6a29b2e3c866dd7605b4713.png

this is unironically the avg v7 game

you pick off more gunners than the rest of the team combined

[torn inlet]

PG is less affected, for example, because it is inherently REALLY good

[bitter turtle]

so either u suffer on maniacs by not going surg/DA or suffer on gunners by not going unarmored/flak

both are like the most common enemies u'll be shooting

[raw steppe]

well plasma has the same issue lol

[torn inlet]

you're already hitting most breakpoints

[bitter turtle]

so its 🪦

[raw steppe]

where if you dont build it right

you have to 2 shot gunners

doubling your TTK and your ammo usage

[bitter turtle]

PG, i assume you mean PS?

[torn inlet]

no

[bitter turtle]

unless i missed something

[torn inlet]

plasma

[bitter turtle]

oh

[torn inlet]

gun

[bitter turtle]

idk about plasma

[austere mica]

I need the tag carryover damage to oneshot but my dumbass can’t aim so it’s just 2 shots anyway

[bitter turtle]

its dumb

and gross

and for smelly ppl

[austere mica]

Still never go below 50% ammo unless shit is fucked

[raw steppe]

plasma has a breakpoint against dreg gunners for 1400 damage which is the difference between 1-shot and 2-shot on every gunner

[bitter turtle]

i think regardless its rather a poor example though

[austere mica]

But I don’t blaze into crowds almost ever

[torn inlet]

PG has extremely high base damage, penetrates/cleaves lots of shit, and one shots a lot of elites. more dmg is nice, but its not that big of a deal

[bitter turtle]

plasma is overpowered as fuck

so of course it doesnt really matter what you do with it

you can probably still succeed since the base weapon is already busted

[torn inlet]

You can argue HOW much each weapon is affected. and analyze

[austere mica]

The only real thing you want on plasma is the gunner oneshot

[torn inlet]

but its clear some weapons are less affected and benefit less than others

[austere mica]

Everything else is optional

[bitter turtle]

well yeah of course

[austere mica]

Cause it’s plasma

[bitter turtle]

but within 95% is dubious of a claim

[austere mica]

And it’s fucked

[bitter turtle]

for example automatics are much less affected by bad rollouts in general