this all makes me wonder what the outlook on vet was when the old vt2-style talent trees were in place
#veteran-class
rigid whale
frank ether
so think of guns like brautos or the new agri pistol
its much more accurate with exec
terse idol
this all makes me wonder what the outlook on vet was when the old vt2-style tale...
It was alright
And funny
Cause camoflauge just made it so you
finite imp
terse idol
Generated less aggro
idle carbon
this all makes me wonder what the outlook on vet was when the old vt2-style tale...
vet was by far and away the most powerful class back in those days
finite imp
NOOB NOOB NOOB
idle carbon
it can be considered that vet had gotten nothing but nerfs since those golden days lol
terse idol
Wait nooow
rigid whale
vet was by far and away the most powerful class back in those days
and not zealot? surprising
terse idol
We got a buff
finite imp
Guns are strong
terse idol
We literally had the talent tree reshuffle
Got a few more talents to play with
And guns only got better
idle carbon
aint nothing reaches the power high from a ye olde days vet
finite imp
Bro we used to have it so executioner stance reduced ALL toughness damage by 75% there is no buffing beyond that.
terse idol
Bro we used to have it so executioner stance reduced ALL toughness damage by 75%...
Damn
finite imp
You were immortal
finite imp
As long as you chained it together
idle carbon
and 200 BASE toughness
terse idol
Like what dah fuck
idle carbon
dead easy to get 300 toughness or more
terse idol
and 200 BASE toughness
That was pretty opie, but also melee cut into hp
So
We were pretty shit
frank ether
We literally had the talent tree reshuffle
still havent solved the aura debacle, smoke is still useless meme, exec is a shadow of its former self etc etc
but oh hey
finite imp
Yeah you were this unstoppable killing machine. So much so that all 3 of the other classes despised us
frank ether
my voc build can be better now
terse idol
We got VOC infil is incredible
idle carbon
the melee chip damage got changed pretty early on to the way it is now
finite imp
They still kinda hate us tbh
frank ether
its use case is to troll your teammates
finite imp
Cuz they're noobs
rigid whale
would yall say VoC is overtuned
terse idol
its use case is to troll your teammates
It actually makes you think how to throw the smoke which I appreciate
finite imp
would yall say VoC is overtuned
No.
terse idol
would yall say VoC is overtuned
Yeah
finite imp
It used to be crazy
somber axle
I thought MF was fine if you run with a fast firing weapon like any of the Infantry Autoguns because you can fire into a crowd and get max stacks instantly
idle carbon
for a while, even at full toughness all melee hits would still bleed 10% of their damage through
mercifully that did get changed
terse idol
Well it used to give more toughness
I don't think it's over tuned but it is
Pretty strong
terse idol
you're not playing rainbow siege
Uh
I don't need to
I like to have an option that makes me think rather than
frank ether
I thought MF was fine if you run with a fast firing weapon like any of the Infan...
yeah its trivial on faster firing guns to keep up
frank ether
though not all of them
terse idol
Yeesh
finite imp
Revolver used to be nuts. It still is and people come in here and cry over it's shrine of death
But it used to be nutty nuts
idle carbon
IIRC the revolver used to be thoroughly meh
then it got buffed
terse idol
IIRC the revolver used to be thoroughly meh
then it got buffed
Handcannon was insane
frank ether
like braced auto mf would just be silly and recon has too little base finesse to salvage it
terse idol
Still it kinda
finite imp
But not enough
terse idol
Even after the nerf
finite imp
Allegedly
somber axle
MF is weird because at a glance it feels like it is meant for Kantraels or Helbores or Revolvers but it synergizes best with guns that let you aim head level before you start spraying
idle carbon
I'm talking before handcannon and rending stuff even
finite imp
Imo it's a revolver, I'm trading every single stat for damage. Give me the damage
terse idol
MF is weird because at a glance it feels like it is meant for Kantraels or Helbo...
It still works with lasguns and historically Exe and Revolvers don't mix
Same with MF
frank ether
MF is weird because at a glance it feels like it is meant for Kantraels or Helbo...
Its condition should have been accuracy not movement, they f'd up
terse idol
Its condition should have been accuracy not movement, they f'd up
No they didn't
idle carbon
draw speed and damage for quickdraw hipfire crits at 3 WS melee stacks
frank ether
Instead of punishing careless spam it punishes movement
frank ether
so you are free to spam shots as you please
terse idol
You dont play MF
somber axle
It still works with lasguns and historically Exe and Revolvers don't mix
Yeah it works fine with a good Kantrael, just wild that it works best with automatics
terse idol
Oh my god I calm down
finite imp
But the BOLTER is a fucking CLOWN CANNON right now I mean WHAT THE FUCK why does a 2 stage .75 CALIBER EXPLOSIVE round do less damage than the revolver
terse idol
You can get MF stacks so fucking easily
frank ether
You dont play MF
I literally finished a game has MF deadshot braced autogun 
terse idol
By just getting headshots
And getting those headshots let's you move around
Some people were like
oh my god I can't wiggle
Okay uh
Get a headshot
terse idol
I literally finished a game has MF deadshot braced autogun <:KEKW_ogryn:10220771...
That's fine
frank ether
yay exec stance but even more autistic in keystone form
terse idol
Its just silly to blame the movement... because you gain stacks so quick
And I mean I run camo
To maintain stacks even if I'm moving abit
somber axle
Is Deadshot still bugged on Plasma or did they ever fix that
scarlet smelt
I think I impressed another vet with the devil's claw bullshit
terse idol
Like people were busting MF because they focused so hard on the CANNOT MOVE
You can move
You can literally move on headshots you gain 10 stacks of MF nearly instantly
idle carbon
I literally finished a game has MF deadshot braced autogun <:KEKW_ogryn:10220771...
funny thing, if I swap builds while in the lobby, sometimes it just hands me random weapons from my armory
my latest example was the game loading a god damn plasma gun onto my infil weapon specialist build, which should have a zarona revolver
my first time was it loading the weapons from a one-shot thammer build onto a chastise build
scarlet smelt
Stamina positive block and parry against Plague Ogryn
terse idol
And the way you're playing on automatic weapons too you do gain more stacks
However... on 2nd thought
scarlet smelt
(Emperor forbid I try to block the overhead slam instead of parry though.)
finite imp
Just dodge
terse idol
Yes you should be awarded stacks on accuracy
You're actually right
Because at least that'd mess up automatic guns abit
frank ether
Its just silly to blame the movement... because you gain stacks so quick
if you'd pick up the context, it takes more time to build stacks on slower firing guns, because they... fire slower? get it? time?
terse idol
But I don't know how FS would even balance it for accuracy
terse idol
if you'd pick up the context, it takes more time to build stacks on slower firin...
You get more stacks on slower weapons because you one tap gunners more consistent.
frank ether
my iag will be at 10 stacks before the helbore 3 user even gets in position and half charges a shot
terse idol
Least that's how I saw it
hoary stratus
the best thing about the helbore continues to be that you can shoot through an ogryn
somber axle
Balance? I would make it sillier. Change it to make each stack turn a per bullet basis bounce to the nearest head within 3m of the target on headshot
scarlet smelt
Just dodge
Why dodge when you can just stuff a plague ogryn's attacks while maintaining your ground and also dealing free damage from parries
terse idol
Second, if you make it about accuracy, then you're playing "make every shot count" again
somber axle
Then erase crowds by unloading into head height at a horde of poxwalkers
terse idol
Again I dunno how you'd balance on pure accuracy
Where the issue still stands exactly like with exe
The better your teammates
The less chance you get resets
Same as a world where MF is accuracy
somber axle
the best thing about the helbore continues to be that you can shoot through an o...
Any weapon that can shoot through an ogryn becomes the best thing to take when you have 3 ogryns with you
terse idol
The better your teammates the more chance you miss a shot
Thus ending your bonuses
Whatever they might be in this new world
Where MF is accuracy based
junior grail
Helbore can shoot through Ogryn?
junior grail
Huh, all this while I never realised
frank ether
Where the issue still stands exactly like with exe
there is no cooldown on MF that prevents you from regaining stacks
terse idol
True
frank ether
when I steal your exec kill you go on a half minute cd
terse idol
Ypu would have to convince me of the system where MF gives you bonuses on accuracy
serene bough
Do slow firing weapons even need MF
frank ether
when I do that on MF you just shoot the next enemy in this literal horde shooter
terse idol
Without being frustrating and just "make every shot count 2"
rigid whale
Like people were busting MF because they focused so hard on the CANNOT MOVE
first thing my friend told me about marksman's focus was "bad veterans stop moving to gain stacks and get left behind"
frank ether
also at least currently you cant highlight everything with exec
it doesnt even care for chaff
terse idol
when I do that on MF you just shoot the next enemy in this literal horde shooter
I mean technically you miss a shot if you shoot a guy mid-death
rigid whale
admittedly, i feel like MF would be a lot healthier if it ticked down per sec instead of when walking, and the camo ability just made it only tick down when you missed
terse idol
MF works best with exe when it highlights chaff gunnahs
idle carbon
it ticks down pretty slowly right now though?
terse idol
admittedly, i feel like MF would be a lot *healthier* if it ticked down per sec ...
Its not that bad
because maybe the truth is the bonuses MF is giving aren't all that good
idle carbon
I'm weird because I like using the MG4 short lasgun with exe stance and MF because I turn into a hipfire headshot machine
junior grail
*because maybe the truth is the bonuses MF is giving aren't all that good*
This. I feel its easier to go non-Keystone build or Wespon Specialist and achieve nearly the same value
terse idol
This is the biggest issue with MF and Exe
rigid whale
i think it's pretty solid
terse idol
It doesnt give you anything for overkill
And you're gonna overkill regular gunners
And that sucks
frank ether
This. I feel its easier to go non-Keystone build or Wespon Specialist and achiev...
thats because dev team spent the time that should have gone into making keystones to rearrange vet talents like 3 times in a row instead
rigid whale
And you're gonna overkill regular gunners
that's assuming you're using either of them with something like the plasma gun
terse idol
thats because dev team spent the time that should have gone into making keystone...
Let's not be so downer about it, The game is still in development
frank ether
I wonder what the original keystones were
terse idol
FS has plenty of time to make changes
frank ether
that were so bad they scrapped em
idle carbon
And you're gonna overkill regular gunners
so, I use the MG4 because it just squeaks by the breakpoints with exec and MF to one-shot all the gunners
which is really nice
frank ether
makes me curious
junior grail
If they change up Vets talents again and I have to reform my builds again ...oh boy
terse idol
that were so bad they scrapped em
I just dont think they were done
Where is your source that there were even keystones to be scrapped????
I've never heard this
serene bough
It was mentioned when they introduced keystone
terse idol
Oh
frank ether
I dont care enough to bring up a source to you
terse idol
My b
junior grail
I don't quite believe their old "scrapped old crafting system for better one" announcement too
rigid whale
vet isn't the class i want to be addressed first honestly
rigid whale
although i wouldn't mind vet's auras getting buffed (aside from one, obviously)
wintry cove
hallo everynyannn
raw steppe
I've never heard this
they mentioned that they were originally designed to be weapon specific:
ie: one for sniper rifles, one for autoguns, one for semi-auto guns, etc
but they scrapped them
idle carbon
If they change up Vets talents again and I have to reform my builds again ...oh ...
we've suffered 3 times already, we'll suffer again if need be lol
terse idol
Sadhe
wintry cove
mhmhmhm
terse idol
Sadge
rigid whale
do you either wanna be an infinite ammo source for yourself and your team, or do you wanna move an unnoticeably small amount faster?
rigid pilot
I like the current tree
serene bough
The reasoning was the scrapped keystone were focused on weapon archetypes and pigeon holded people iirc
wintry cove
serene bough
I like MF
frank ether
nah just keep nitpicking me every 5 minutes
terse idol
Sorry urgh
wintry cove
someone fill me in what is mf please
rigid whale
if they buffed the movement speed aura from +5% to +10% i'd prolly use it lol
junior grail
Motherf
terse idol
Marksmens focus
serene bough
Marksman focus
rigid whale
someone fill me in what is mf please
marksman's focus
rigid pilot
Mf snakes
idle carbon
MF is just stinky
stupid idea: change MF to highlight random shooters (same process as exec stance), the number based on the number of MF stacks you have, with gain/loss the same as current
you deal +25% more damage to highlighted targets, period, with some branch stuff to modify max stacks, camo ,etc.
serene bough
Rather, I like the idea that landing headshots and playing well rewards you with buffs
terse idol
stupid idea: change MF to highlight random shooters (same process as exec stance...
I can only see that leading to more overkill
idle carbon
if you're using an MG12 yes lol
terse idol
Like 25% damage on an enemy I will likely already kill
rigid pilot
Mf is the keystone
terse idol
Even the Ia
frank ether
Rather, I like the idea that landing headshots and playing well rewards you with...
I like that idea aswell, I dont like the movement play though. Most of the ''marksman'' flavored weapons already are penalized in movement/draw time to begin with.
junior grail
stupid idea: change MF to highlight random shooters (same process as exec stance...
DD psyker is that you?
terse idol
Because... the 12 is powercrept lul
solar sky
The bolter is back! I finally found a way to make this weapon not only work, but excel in Auric maelstrom. It's still not QUITE on the level of the plasma, but it is close enough and plays differently enough that I think it's worth a shot. Check it out if you've wanted to run the bolter, but haven't had much luck with it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww8wIK8iHrg&t=1s
frank ether
It never went anywhere
idle carbon
DD psyker is that you?
||I may have a guilty pleasure as a revolver gunker||
terse idol
I like that idea aswell, I dont like the movement play though. Most of the ''mar...
If it gave interesting buffs suree
I'd be down to cloown
For accuracy based
serene bough
I feel like if stacks didn't decay when ADS the movement wouldn't be an issue
terse idol
Maybe something even that lends itself to the weapons MF was intended to use
Slower firing weapons
serene bough
And then an overall slower decay of stacks
finite imp
The bolter is back! I finally found a way to make this weapon not only work, but...
Noob
frank ether
If it gave interesting buffs suree
extra finesse and reload speed is good enough buffs
just not good enough to tie an anchor down your leg
idle carbon
whatever MF does also reduces sway and recoil, so
finite imp
What oh nothing I just wanted to use the word noob a few times and then pack it away
Probably use it again in a couple years
frank ether
whatever MF does also reduces sway and recoil, so
that sounds like deadshot, not mf
solar sky
One day, I hope I will stop being a noob
finite imp
I'll watch the bolter video but I have little faith
solar sky
bolter is really fun with this setup though
idle carbon
like, go take a bolter into psykanium with MF, you'll see on high stacks your sway and recoil are a lot less
solar sky
just don't full auto with it xD
serene bough
Taking a talent named marksman focus with a weapon that shoots bullets the size of soda cans seems like an oxymoron
vernal harbor
How’s what
rigid whale
i should really start taking deadshot
idle carbon
Taking a talent named marksman focus with a weapon that shoots bullets the size ...
that's just an example to show that MF does reduce sway and recoil, merely the most noticeable thing
serene bough
that's just an example to show that MF does reduce sway and recoil, merely the m...
I understand, im just making an additional comment about how the combo sounds silly
idle carbon
I mean, you do kind of want to put those shots where they count
ammo is at a premium with it
serene bough
True, I guess bolter hipfire isn't all that great anymore
finite imp
bolter is really fun with this setup though
Liked and subscribed. Almost turned off the video when I saw the power sword
But your unbiased delivery of the build and not trying to oversell it reminded me of some of my favorite mini painters. Decent work.
Didn't make me go OOOH EE AH AH UNGA BUNGA BOLTER
frank ether
like, go take a bolter into psykanium with MF, you'll see on high stacks your sw...
no difference
finite imp
But still a neat trick with the exe stance and the bolter draw
idle carbon
hm
unique isle
hi, have you noticed that on the follower's helmet the sound filter is not applied to abilities?
finite imp
hi, have you noticed that on the follower's helmet the sound filter is not appli...
Followers helmet?
idle carbon
I think he's talking about the scion helmet not applying the voice filter on ult abilities
idle carbon
it's been reported, no idea what FS say on that yet
finite imp
They said "u guys are noobs. Lol"
unique isle
Followers helmet?
in my language it would be like this...
finite imp
in my language it would be like this...
Oh I see. I don't know how I would have known to assume that but thank you for explaining
terse idol
I think he's talking about the scion helmet not applying the voice filter on ult...
Its only on the professional?
Or so I heard
You cannot hear the professionals voice through the filter,or is it every voice?
idle carbon
no clue, haven't paid attention
terse idol
Like you can hear it yourself
But your team doesn't hear your VOC through the gilter
Or so I heaard
crude ermine
It's true
idle carbon
that's what I'm hearing too, ult voiceovers aren't modified
crude ermine
Only the ult voices
unique isle
You cannot hear the professionals voice through the filter,or is it every voice?
well, I've met very few people with voice filters in the game, but everyone seems to have
terse idol
Hmm
unique isle
It’s just that when you have such a filter and then the ability without it, it’s somehow out of whack, I think
finite imp
Do you play the game in English? Has the game been localized in other languages?
unique isle
where can I tell FS about this?
crude ermine
Do you play the game in English? Has the game been localized in other languages?
Yes
In terms of text
finite imp
Fatshark forums
crude ermine
Voices stay English
brave sleet
what is the best lazgun or is there really a difference not counting recon lazguns
tropic notch
@primal mesa could I get an invite to your sever? I can’t find it on the video just dm me
wise fossil
The bolter is back! I finally found a way to make this weapon not only work, but...
No deadshot?
finite imp
what is the best lazgun or is there really a difference not counting recon lazgu...
Mg la
brave sleet
thank you
crude ermine
YEAH
finite imp
YEAH?
crude ermine
.. YEAH
unique isle
Fatshark forums
I even recorded a video for it
finite imp
I even recorded a video for it
Nice. I'd upload to YouTube and try posting it there in the bug reports
unique isle
Nice. I'd upload to YouTube and try posting it there in the bug reports
tnx :3
crude fiber
for MF i think they should change to only lose stacks on sprint and dodge with maybe 1 or 2 second of no loss after weakspot kill
terse idol
It kinda needs to be rebalancdd when I think about it
Nobody's taking the 15 stacks seemingly
The rending node is useless
crude fiber
rending is uselss and its too hard to keep stacks to get to 15 for more then a few seconds
crude fiber
id say 2
crude fiber
not like youll have 15 stacks too often anyway
frank ether
conceptually broken
terse idol
I mean, if it just gave you stacks on any headshots
Would actually make it worth it if the rending was higher for cooking stacks on crushers
As it stands uh
Whew
frank ether
then you once again run into the problem of high rof fast gun = better
cos like, smol damage gun do more headshot per kill
rigid whale
i wanna use smoke grenades
terse idol
cos like, smol damage gun do more headshot per kill
Maybe different amount of rending based on the weapon
But then it would go against FS scraping the old keystones
High fire rate weapons gaining less rending
crude fiber
i guess how quick they go away wouldnt be a problem if they made getting them faster. Maybe boost the amount of stacks gained on kill to compensate stronger weapons
frank ether
Maybe different amount of rending based on the weapon
I mean wouldnt it be easier to modify stack gain per weapon at that point?
frank ether
I mean.. that could work well
crude fiber
they could then reduce the bonus per stack and raise the max stack
frank ether
for the current iteration
people who use it for guns like say
helbore, vraks, bolter etc
do it for extra boss damage or they know they'll only have a few stacks at a time
which would be fine
you'd have a reason to take the rending node if it scaled with stacks
because rending is actually very potent on some of these weapons, not so much on others
but its also very potent for iags lmao
crude fiber
was gonna say isnt rending better for lower damage weapons
idle carbon
what if it just gets made really, really basic like ogryn's heavy hitter keystone
frank ether
its more about armor pen
than base damage
vraks have very high damage and finesse
but still need rending
for example
crude fiber
vraks sure but bolter doesnt benefit too much does it? not sure about helbor with its weird charged shots
bitter turtle
with v7
when it sfull ystacked and you use it with the 10% on the mid tree
it almost feels like u can actually dmg carapace
lol
frank ether
for example my MG1A does %48 damage to flak on close range
and well
it tickles carapace
literally tickles it
%1.26
rigid whale
who ponged me
rigid whale
ah
bitter turtle
lol
idle carbon
what if we flip Marksman's Focus around, and have it default / build up to max stacks, and you loose stacks when you take damage? or maybe you loose stacks based on how much of your toughness bar you have?
frank ether
I mean interesting concept
crude fiber
id say thats pobably worse unless it gave you some sort of toughness DR or aggro reduction
idle carbon
if you want something that doesn't unfairly benefit certain weapons, it seems like a choice
idle carbon
id say thats pobably worse unless it gave you some sort of toughness DR or aggro...
you can combine it with various bits of the vet tree to compensate pretty easily
bitter turtle
honestly
frank ether
I'd just turn deadshot into a keystone and be done with it lmao
bitter turtle
MF and weapon specialist are both design fails in a way
idle carbon
meh, not really a fan of deadshot
bitter turtle
weapon specialist is for melee builds but benefits only semi autos
frank ether
MF and weapon specialist are both design fails in a way
they kinda are, but at least weapon spec is fun for adhd agile engagement players
bitter turtle
so very few weapons u actually run in a melee build synergize
and MF is supposed to be the sniper keystone
but instead it is better on automatics
lol
bitter turtle
its just a design fail
frank ether
not the real issue with ''sniper'' sort of builds? you know?
crude fiber
deadshot keystone would cool, nodes on it for reduced stamina consumption and maybe stamina gain on weakspot kill or something
idle carbon
flip it around so you don't have to get headshot kills to get the benefits, you lose them when something happens, preferably something preventable
frank ether
I kinda feel like exec is the real issue
frank ether
like you have people more commonly playing VoC vraks/helbore than exec at this point
if this doesnt scream problem I dont know what does
bolter/plasma again
VoC
just better
tranquil bronze
I ordered
crude fiber
i love exec, shooters are my worst enemies in this game lol
frank ether
VoC makes me immune to shooters
crude fiber
for 3 extra seconds
idle carbon
iron will makes you immune to shooters :P
obtuse raft
how does a cleave mod over 100% work anyway? obviously isn't infinite.
frank ether
iron will makes you immune to shooters :P
works better with voc/infil than exec
though its kinda dependant on how good you keep toughness up obviously
idle carbon
just saying, iron will is doing the real heavy lifting in that scenario
frank ether
I can drop IW
vernal harbor
how does a cleave mod over 100% work anyway? obviously isn't infinite.
just keeps going I’d think
frank ether
It does a lot of heavy lifting
but both voc and infil are very defensive ults on their own
idle carbon
ya
frank ether
value of IW is dependant on where you sit on the toughness percentage scale and total toughness
bitter turtle
like you have people more commonly playing VoC vraks/helbore than exec at this p...
if i could pick any without reprecussion
frank ether
yellow toughness is broken for obvious reasons
bitter turtle
i think infil v7 sounds the strongest to me for v7
frank ether
but even infil
bitter turtle
but you cant pick infil without losing a ton of points so
frank ether
on a 200 toughness build
bitter turtle
voc it is
frank ether
infil is like having that 3 times over
terse idol
but you cant pick infil without losing a ton of points so
Well you could only take infil
bitter turtle
unironically the aggro drop sounds great on v7
terse idol
And only top off your toughness
bitter turtle
since you can pick off all the gunners/snipers in peace
frank ether
not as good as yellow toughness but again you can just eat a gunner wave at a slow comfortable pace
bitter turtle
And only top off your toughness
no you can't
because you still have to spend 2 points going to the right side and then back
bitter turtle
and then you still have to waste a point on demo stockpile
bitter turtle
unironically you can on v7
frank ether
unironically the aggro drop sounds great on v7
Its great the only issue is travel tax honestly
bitter turtle
its very ammo efficient
but
still feels bad
in that case you're just giving up more points on the bottom of the tree
still
rigid pilot
You can save the build for if your party has other ammo vets
idle carbon
I still kind of like my idea of making marksmans focus work like ogryn's feel no pain, except instead of defensive buffs it's offensive buffs
loose one stack when you take health damage, gain them back naturally
add some keystone modifiers to maybe gain 3 stacks back on a weakspot elite kill, increase the max stacks, add ranged toughness damage reduction based on stacks, etc.
bitter turtle
since its still 3 points to reroute + still take stockpile
frank ether
like the ideal marksman larp build would be to go survivalist+infiltrate+mf
bitter turtle
MORE points if you take aggro drop
rigid pilot
Or just pretend you're a zealot
pallid dew
cop?
frank ether
aggro drop you gotta take if gun focused imo
bitter turtle
also
there's no point
in not taking ammo aura
unless u go krak
and i dont want to go krak on v7
doesnt actually save u points
frank ether
what do you do then
rigid pilot
Take smoke 
idle carbon
aggro drop you gotta take if gun focused imo
sure, add in a camo keystone if that would make it better
I still don't get the obsession with camo people have though
frank ether
go smoke? lol
bitter turtle
what do you do then
i take voc :^)
frank ether
moreso because I dont want to drop survivalist or take smokes
bitter turtle
yeah same
bitter turtle
like i said, infil sounds honestly way better for v7
frank ether
I want to hit those people in the face
frank ether
because it doesnt fix shit
rigid pilot
Infill needs some buffs
frank ether
sure, add in a camo keystone if that would make it better
I still don't get the ...
because its window to shoot your gun without being tied in combat
rigid pilot
At least phasing through enemies
bitter turtle
Infill needs some buffs
the skill itself is fine
its just the position on the tree
and no
it doesnt need to ignore collision
rigid pilot
But then speedrunners 
bitter turtle
stealth itself is strong and fine
the problem is this
look at how ugly
that route is
and look how much you have to drop
just to take it
lol
rigid pilot
Is infill having 4 augments fine
bitter turtle
the left cluster on the bottom is non-negotiable
rigid pilot
Why not make some of them base kit
frank ether
infil is fine just... work on smoke and speed aura
bitter turtle
Is infill having 4 augments fine
2 of them are not meant to be taken together
wise fossil
Infiltrate nodes need cutting down. Surprise attack and possibly even Hunter's resolve just need to be part of the main skill
bitter turtle
surprise attack can probably be baked in though
frank ether
yeah for that one I can see it
rigid pilot
Agile engagement on the right is really good tho
idle carbon
because its window to shoot your gun without being tied in combat
melee is still a thing a gun-focused build has to do
you just do better in the shooty bit before the melee
crude fiber
At least phasing through enemies
walking through bulwarks and beasts would be crazy lol
rigid whale
https://i.gyazo.com/611cf93d7b6c46a984ecda6fc2af1191.png
this would feel less ass if the auras weren't so weak
the non-survivalist ones at least
frank ether
survivalist is just busted
too bad because game is kinda balanced around it
bitter turtle
yeah
frank ether
which is silly
wise fossil
Agile engagement on the right is really good tho
Very unfortunate that it's in the middle of absolutely nowhere on the tree
bitter turtle
its been said already
frank ether
but thats where we are at
bitter turtle
but it should just be passive
and then new aura
like reload speed aura or something
frank ether
like a very nerfed version of it should be baseline
idle carbon
slap survivalist in the universal node before the grenades, add +25 toughness to vets directly
watch everything burn
rigid pilot
Very unfortunate that it's in the middle of absolutely nowhere on the tree
Just play smoke infill melee vet like me
rigid whale
i feel like enemies should just drop ammo pickups like pd2 lol
terse idol
like a very nerfed version of it should be baseline
Scavenger should be baseline
bitter turtle
i feel like enemies should just drop ammo pickups like pd2 lol
or that
terse idol
%0.75 is like
bitter turtle
honestly
terse idol
enouugh
bitter turtle
i honestly think
that is way better
just delete surv and make gun enemies drop ammo
terse idol
Making it that 1% was a mistake
gleaming turtle
Crucian or Surgical on the Mk. XIV Quickdraw/
frank ether
just delete surv and make gun enemies drop ammo
I like that idea
rigid whale
another vet tree rebalance
frank ether
bit more variety than just ''shoot everything get ammo''
more like ''kill gunner get ammo''
that makes more sense
crude fiber
i wonder if the game could handle having a bunch of little ammo pick ups all over the place
bitter turtle
and yeah the E spamming might be the only lame part lul
terse idol
It could uh
idle carbon
vet gets a new ability to hoover up all ammo in a radius
chaos ensues
wise fossil
Yeah making survivalist a base game mechanic that every class has access to (somehow) makes sense. Like stamina
terse idol
It could stack
frank ether
and yeah the E spamming might be the only lame part lul
you could make it autopickup on walking on corpses
gleaming turtle
Give Ogryn an aura that allows them to give everyone a percentage of the ammo they pick up. This would incentivize people to go Gunlugger and no one would complain about not having ammo (well, most people wouldn't) because the Gunlugger would be giving you ammo whenever they grabbed a container or something.
terse idol
Like the more enemies die in a stack the bigger the pile
rigid pilot
Autopickup means the melee people will vacuum
bitter turtle
too many items to spawn
frank ether
you walk on gun pick ammo like its half life
rigid pilot
Unlimited ammo
gleaming turtle
Scavenger already does that on Aurics.
wise fossil
Ideally whatever mechanic it is doesn't encourage kill stealing
rigid pilot
No scavenger is now a %
frank ether
I mean thats already what scavenger does rn
terse idol
We're trying to find a solution away from survivalist
rigid pilot
Doesn't give 1
gleaming turtle
1% = 1 round and you kill hundreds of elites and specialists.
bitter turtle
no, scavenger can give less than 1
terse idol
Its not 1:1, decimaalls
bitter turtle
so that's a fair thing to say
gleaming turtle
I literally never get less than one. 
terse idol
You dont get 1:1 shot on kill on ogryn I'll say as much
bitter turtle
honestly
rigid pilot
Yea that's how the UI works
terse idol
With a rumbler
terse idol
I literally never get less than one. <:kekw:714344748466438184>
Play revolver
bitter turtle
or less
terse idol
Or rumbler
bitter turtle
like how it is right now
terse idol
🥹
bitter turtle
it doesnt have to be a flat number
gleaming turtle
All I do is play Ogryn and all I do is shoot my Kickback nonstop to keep my BA stacks up, and I never run out of ammo on Aurics because we literally kill hundreds of Elites/Specials.
bitter turtle
i mean NORMAL ammo packs aren ta flat number as it is lol
bitter turtle
the only problem is yeah
the picking them up
e spam
autopickup means ppl can vacuum on accident
but e spam sounds annoying
rigid pilot
And they need to write new vacuum code
bitter turtle
imagine the zealot running around vacuuming everything up by accident lul
frank ether
yeah pick-up thing is too much work
bitter turtle
dont even have to be trolling on purpose
frank ether
you can just take current survivalist and limit it to shooter type enemies
and do number nerfing if still too good
rigid pilot
And the backline which actually needs the ammo will be the furthest away from the ammo dropped
wise fossil
Maybe everyone gets a nerfed survivalist but only in coherency
rigid pilot
Unless you do instanced drops, but this is getting more and more scuffed
bitter turtle
its not a brick
tall torrent
1% = 1 round and you kill hundreds of elites and specialists.
Scav gives 1% which can be <1
timber phoenix
the fuck it isn't
bitter turtle
ranged weak spot -> some other stat
wise fossil
New base game mechanic like toughness regen: ammo regen but only if you're at least one coherency when you kill
terse idol
All I do is play Ogryn and all I do is shoot my Kickback nonstop to keep my BA s...
Yeah, but TO BE FAIR you ain't getting 1:!
tall torrent
On mk2a revolver it takes 2 elite/special to gain 1 ammo back
timber phoenix
hit & run -> headhunter
GOOD LUCK GETTING HEADHUNTER AFTER 25 ATTEMPTS 
rigid pilot
Hadron issue
timber phoenix
since you have two blessing slots
agile yew
Power Sword BIS blessings are Energise + Brutal Momentum?
frank ether
I get a godroll from melk and think over it for 3 days if I should buy it
rigid pilot
One day recon will be good again copium
timber phoenix
why spend so much over recon
it's not a rude question, it's a fucking ass weapon and it's the last thing i'd wanna use this patch
timber phoenix
however i am a blight upon this world and I wanna use recon sometimes
frank ether
however i am a blight upon this world and I wanna use recon sometimes
thats relatable
though there are many guns I wanna use and when they brick I just go fuck it and go back to ciag
rigid whale
recon lasgun sounds fun on volley fire but i hate how only one of the 3 variants is useful
crude fiber
they could just buff the amount of ammo box pickups lol
timber phoenix
though there are many guns I wanna use and when they brick I just go fuck it and...
REMEMBER BACK WHEN THE CIAG WAS ASS?? THOSE WERE FUNNY DAYS RIGHT?????
rigid pilot
Now they are around equal lul
frank ether
REMEMBER BACK WHEN THE CIAG WAS ASS?? THOSE WERE FUNNY DAYS RIGHT?????
I welcome the iag meta personally
timber phoenix
man fatshark fixed so much shit only to bring back GUNNER STUN and still have done barely ANYTHING ABOUT CRAFTING
rigid pilot
IAGs are good but
rigid pilot
Who the heck is Tanner 
crude fiber
blue recon is fun still
timber phoenix
I want to believe Tanner that Recon isn't *That* bad
headhunter+dumdum is the only damnation viable build with recon
rigid pilot
I barely know her
timber phoenix
that's what i was told
rigid whale
i tried recon with infernus on psyker, it did not work well lol
timber phoenix
so im not even TRYING to use anything but a headhunter recon
frank ether
it does pitiful enough dps that you can put infernus on it
rigid pilot
headhunter+dumdum is the only damnation viable build with recon
Grey shovel no talent vet is viable in damnation
Strongest build
crude fiber
nah headhunter and infernous with onslaught
gleaming turtle
Anyway, Crucian and Handcannon on the new revolver, right?
timber phoenix
Grey shovel no talent vet is viable in damnation
so just forget recon exists and run shovel basically
rigid pilot
infernus deadshot recon
Each crit you get 2 crits so you get 6 fire stacks
frank ether
I mean the dps is pitiful enough that infernus actually has time to tick
rigid pilot
That's just sad
rigid pilot
Not on corpses you mean
frank ether
I bet %99.9 of the playerbase is unaware there is like a cool little burn effect
placid portal
Woe a rager upon yee
tall torrent
I bet %99.9 of the playerbase is unaware there is like a cool little burn effect
Well laspistol isn’t bad with Infernus and it cranks out way better dps than recons
crude fiber
still want to see the day where a boss has full stacks of all 3 DOTs
frank ether
Well laspistol isn’t bad with Infernus and it cranks out way better dps than rec...
I mean yea
but laspis kind alike
if you crit your dps is very good to begin with
rigid pilot
Infernus would be good on bosses and reapers
Everything else probably takes like 2-3 burn tics max
frank ether
so I delete things too fast to notice infernus ticking on lasp
tall torrent
if you crit your dps is very good to begin with
Infernus for Laspistol is just a little extra dps and to maintain dumdum stacks
rigid pilot
You don't need infernus to preserve dumdum tho
tall torrent
You don't need infernus to preserve dumdum tho
It helps maintain which is surprisingly nice
tiny summit
i tried recon with infernus on psyker, it did not work well lol
Yea. I did too. That match was torture
frank ether
I think its nice for the new slower laspis
tall torrent
Laspistol has similar suppression immunity like helbore? Or no
frank ether
I mean.. I run it with deadshot so barely notice any sway
regardless
its like completely stable
in ads
rigid pilot
But you can out spam the enemy
rigid whale
I mean the dps is pitiful enough that infernus actually has time to tick
so you're saying it has synergy?
frank ether
a bottom feeder synergy, yes
rigid pilot
Poop and a poopeater
tiny summit
so you're saying it has synergy?
The enemy you didn't kill because the mag ran dry may die to infernus
tiny summit
If you pace it right. You can technically save ammo leaving them to burn
tall torrent
Give recon lasguns infinite cleave and it would be so funny with Infernus
tiny summit
But then, that's an enemy that may live to hit you again
rigid pilot
If you pace it right. You can technically save ammo leaving them to burn
You don't get to decide when you crit though
tiny summit
Yea but you can see the fire effect
rigid pilot
Give recon lasguns infinite cleave and it would be so funny with Infernus
Hello sir that's a flamer
frank ether
You don't get to decide when you crit though
thats fine for a ranged dot
esp with crit strings considered
rigid pilot
I'm drawing parallel to burning hell OC in DRG, where you can actually do that because guaranteed burn and healthbars and stuff
frank ether
I think the real problem is infernus is kinda eeh for the most part
rigid whale
if burn stacks could spread like in DRG then yeah it'd sure be nice
frank ether
yeah the upgrade that makes burning enemies blow up
rigid pilot
DRG mechanics are great 🥵
tiny summit
I just love how Fatshark thinks the blessing that lights enemies on fire with crits should have ass dmg
rigid whale
bulwarks should just explode
frank ether
I just love how Fatshark thinks the blessing that lights enemies on fire with cr...
I think it was nerfed long ago because recon was busted with it
thats what I was told at the time anyways
tall torrent
Played an ungodly amount of hab dreyko & power matrix past few days
For the mission penances
tiny summit
And what did you get for those penances?
frank ether
But damn is it bad now
ranged dot is a weird concept anyway
would work if it could serve as ''cleave'' somehow
tall torrent
And what did you get for those penances?
Not done yet
100 of each mission type gives u a special weapon trinket called “Auric Charm”
frank ether
that sounds like busywork
tiny summit
would work if it could serve as ''cleave'' somehow
If on crit it set infernus to X targets in an AoE or X radius it would be cool
tall torrent
20 repair & 30 investigation left
tiny summit
Not done yet
100 of each mission type gives u a special weapon trinket called “A...
Sounds like an ass reward
rigid pilot
Imagine if guns in darktide had OCs
rigid whale
blessings
tall torrent
Sounds like an ass reward
It’s whatever I just wanna get it
tiny summit
So many challenges. So many with ass rewards
rigid pilot
Blessings are cool but they don't turn your gun into a flamethrower
rigid whale
just use a flamethrower then
tiny summit
Penance exclusive cosmetics, no way to get alternate colors of the same variation
tiny summit
Blessings are cool but they don't turn your gun into a flamethrower <:KEKW_ogryn...
Be fun though
rigid whale
i just wish curios had actual blessings like in vt2
tiny summit
Curios are so fucking boring
rigid pilot
So everyone can slap barkskin on it
frank ether
Curios are so fucking boring
good
tiny summit
No
frank ether
less rng hadron slot machine
rigid pilot
Imagine concoction blessing for the new stims
bitter turtle
we need more time friendly gearing before adding more interesting options
rigid pilot
Proxy would be cool too
tiny summit
No class exclusive bonuses. No synergy with skills. Just a bunch of boring inconsequential perks
tall torrent
Just let us share weapons between our characters
tiny summit
Only real synergy is wound zealot or deadshot vet
tall torrent
If I have a godroll laspistol on veteran I want it to be available to my zealot & psyker as well
frank ether
sry too complex
tiny summit
Borderlands was pretty brain dead simple with class mods
tiny summit
we need more time friendly gearing before adding more interesting options
It all comes back to shitty crafting
rigid pilot
Yeaaaaa
dire lagoon
Some people argue crafting is so slow otherwise we would gear up too fast and be bored.
I disagree, there are so many items and builds I want to do. I would really enjoy kitting out 4 or 5 different sets per class.
Right now the pacing is god awful, the last three days I've been polaying way too much and pissing the wife off proper.
Three days playing 6~8 hours per day and I didn't get a single blessing or weapon or curiou I wanted.
rigid pilot
Hopefully they have a roadmap for us for 2024
And it better have crafting changes in it
soft blade
the argument that the current state crafting is necessary for pacing makes zero sense to me
if anything it just causes burnout before actually getting to enjoy the meat of the endgame
tiny summit
Some people argue crafting is so slow otherwise we would gear up too fast and be...
It's a combination of a lot of shitty decisions. Grind long? OK, provide some sense of guarantee for that time investment. RNG on top of RNG? OK, let us earn and use materials at a rate that's fun to pull the slot machine. Not having material rewards linked to actual mission completion and only through searching a map for spare change just makes it worse
soft blade
it makes build creation such a pain that experimentation is heavily discouraged by way of having to grind for everything in the most dissatisfying way imaginable
rigid pilot
the argument that the current state crafting is necessary for pacing makes zero ...
It's not their argument, it's just people's (poor) opinions
tiny summit
I like playing the harder and more intense modifier combinations. I also don't get any more of a reward besides dockets and dockets are just pissed away at brunt.
soft blade
basically just pulling the arm of a slot machine before you can play the game optimally it’s so annoying
rigid pilot
Maybe for a roguelite system, random loot is fine
But as a progression system it's horrendous
frank ether
Maybe for a roguelite system, random loot is fine
but those games are all about randomized gameplay loop
so getting a random hand is the fun in those games
rigid pilot
Maybe darktide devs wanted that for their game
frank ether
well they failed
rigid pilot
tiny summit
If rewards were better you'd probably also have more smoothing of players in difficulties. I'm sure some players would be enjoying just playing Heresy more but the resource gain is so bad, fairly sure some feel compelled to play Damn to make their time worth it
rigid pilot
That just means that darktide chaos wastes can come out soon right
frank ether
If they wanted a roguelite experience they'd have us loot random guns, grenades talents etc during runs
honestly I wouldnt hate that sort of game
soft blade
could be a cool idea honestly
frank ether
Its not neccessarily the RNG that I hate but that most options are very clearly there to be fillers
tiny summit
Remnant From the Ashes Survival mode was fun
steep pier
remnants is good
rigid pilot
The level design is really bad though
steep pier
only thing left for me in 2 atm is a hardcore run
tiny summit
I bought Remnant 2 dlc. Haven't played that yet
rigid pilot
The tiles just ain't doing it for me
steep pier
i did the dlc on max difficulty
no extra rewards
don't bother
not worth the trouble
tiny summit
Kinda fell off playing Remnant 2. So far not a lot of the weapons and mods are interesting to me
steep pier
also first dlc run in rme 2 is only new stuff
tiny summit
Loved Remnant 1
steep pier
so that first run is golden
frank ether
Kinda fell off playing Remnant 2. So far not a lot of the weapons and mods are i...
Idk why it was even popular to begin with
tiny summit
Didn't like them removing set bonuses from armor though
rigid pilot
I love firestorm mod in remnant 2
frank ether
looked like your average third person pve game
steep pier
i like the scythe
frank ether
generic
tiny summit
Idk why it was even popular to begin with
Simple. Co-Op 3rd person shooter soulslike
tiny summit
Get with the boys and play through some levels with some neat puzzles and levels
dire lagoon
It's a combination of a lot of shitty decisions. Grind long? OK, provide some se...
Yeah pretty spot on mate. I don't expect to get exactly what I want when I want. But I want my time to feel rewarding.
I know everyone's situation is different but putting in 3 8 hour sessions 3 days in a row is a massive time comitment for a guy my age.
steep pier
dodging frames are similar as well
tiny summit
Yea. Remnant fun
steep pier
to souls games
terse idol
It has like equipment loaf that also influences your roll
rigid pilot
Anyone played Lords of the fallen the new one
rigid pilot
Fell off really hard on that one
terse idol
steep pier
didn't hear good stuff
soft blade
Anyone played Lords of the fallen the new one
i hope not
soft blade
that game just seemed like a half baked fan project
dire lagoon
Anyways it seems pretty clear nobody likes the crafting system and gear progression. I just hope fatshark is listening and plans to address it.
tiny summit
It looked cool. But eh wasn't feeling it. Surge 2 was pretty cool though
rigid pilot
the new prince of persia is bad
Isn't it a side scroller game now
rigid pilot
It's back to it's roots
steep pier
more akin to classic castelvania
tiny summit
Anyways it seems pretty clear nobody likes the crafting system and gear progress...
If you don't get your hopes up, you can't be disappointed and can only be left being pleasantly surprised
steep pier
i like castlevania
tiny summit
its not even open world like the last 2
That's a good thing for a lot of people
steep pier
its difficult
tiny summit
I don't need another open world ubisoft game
steep pier
i enjoyed the first 2 being open world
dire lagoon
If you don't get your hopes up, you can't be disappointed and can only be left b...
Yeah true. My steam library is pretty big anyways 😄
steep pier
but that puzzle platforming
was so annoying as a kid
i died so much
i want a new bomberman game myself
or glover
rigid pilot
Bomberman
tiny summit
Remember the edgy bomberman?
rigid pilot
Who does it even belong to now
dire lagoon
Random comment: if anyone is looking for a fun game to play I highly recommend Grounded.
Completed it recently and it blew my mind how fun it was.
rigid pilot
Damn
rigid pilot
There's a new one?
steep pier
risk of rain returns
frank ether
ror2 is one of those games that has no right to be as fun as it is
frank ether
like its a game full of bullshit mechanics yet
rigid pilot
Oh it's not a dlc?
frank ether
funy
steep pier
no
soft blade
remake
steep pier
yes
rigid pilot
💀
steep pier
its also pretty cheap
rigid pilot
So they remade the first one into 3d?
steep pier
i miss bandit
tiny summit
I think I'll take a proper break from this game or just a bit less time when Tekken 8 launches. I feel good with a lot of weapons I have and think I've definitely played a lot. Whenever Fatshark wants to have new content I'll definitely get back in
soft blade
no
steep pier
bandit was cool
frank ether
So they remade the first one into 3d?
no still 2d
rigid pilot
Understandable
soft blade
they just updated sprites and added new characters and abilities
frank ether
they just overhauled the entire game
agile yew
I actually prefer this crafting system over Vermintide 2. Just needs ways to mitigate RNG. Checking shop every 1h also is tedious, maybe just give all items of the day visible for 24h, would save lot of time.
soft blade
they also tweaked a ton of shit
agile yew
Maybe raise Brunts minimum items to 320+
rigid pilot
If the crafting system was better it would be easier to be toxic
agile yew
And pay diamantine to reroll Melks inventory once a ay
rigid pilot
Why do you not have xx perk to yy blessing
steep pier
7 penances i didn't even know about cause i forget to check the redacted tab
dire lagoon
I think blessings should not be locked to family type, they should be global. Except ones that might be specific to a certain class/weapon etc.
timid otter
If the crafting system was better it would be easier to be toxic <:KEKW_ogryn:10...
You can be toxic anyways.
tiny summit
Maybe raise Brunts minimum items to 320+
Be nice if the penances for completing X number of missions would gate off brunts minimum. Cmon Fatshark we've been at 30 for a while. You know we want 360s and up
agile yew
Curios should be for all classes too
rigid pilot
True
native hamlet
If the crafting system was better it would be easier to be toxic <:KEKW_ogryn:10...
finally 🙏
timid otter
Whats wrong with you, why dont you have this omega op blessing you poor peasant.
agile yew
I just got lvl 30 on my Vet lastnight, so now the blessing farm begins, mainly Energise for Power Sword
thick wolf
I tried an MGS4 praying mantis look for my guy, how did I do with my limited resources
native hamlet
been a fan of chainsword
steep pier
shovel vet like krieger
rigid pilot
If you don't have power cycler 4 are you even PlaYinG ThE GaMe
dire lagoon
Curios should be for all classes too
Actually I think all inventory should be shared, if I find a sweet Columnus on my pyscher I might want to use it for my vet etc.
native hamlet
I tried an MGS4 praying mantis look for my guy, how did I do with my limited res...
you did good soldier 🫡
tiny summit
I got a good PS6. It definitely does work. But man is it's feel and feedback kinda meh
soft blade
shovel and rashad 
steep pier
i like the axe
soft blade
power sword is for when i wanna power trip
steep pier
and shovel
agile yew
Actually I think all inventory should be shared, if I find a sweet Columnus on m...
Yeah why not, but noone would want to start the game as Ogryn then 
native hamlet
i hate axe
soft blade
i need to play more ogryn
thick wolf
you did good soldier 🫡
black shirt with desert/khaki pants goes hard
soft blade
and drink more glue
native hamlet
it does go hard
rigid whale
I actually prefer this crafting system over Vermintide 2. Just needs ways to mit...
it's infinitely better than vt2 on account of not having the Power system
rigid whale
(technically Power is a thing in darktide but you get what i mean)
native hamlet
i think both suck
dire lagoon
I have vet and pyscher at 30, plan to make all to level 30.
terse idol
Vt2 with red weapons juust eh
steep pier
i got lvl 30 zel vet and og
terse idol
is okie
steep pier
and lvl 27 psyker on console