veteran-class

[thick wolf]

tell me, do psykers really scream at you when you inject them with a stim

[muted knot]

Brother that is the fucking weakest point you could argue

[untold mulch]

I like both tbh

In general well armored elite troopers = good

Now if Scion legs had more armor

When backpack fed weapons Obese fish

[frank ether]

imagine the clipping issues though

Valve does those hanging bits really well for their csgo models

[untold mulch]

Sacrifices must be made

[dry knoll]

Heavy plasma, lets go

[frank ether]

Idk if fatshark can do it without unholy clipping issues

[civic knot]

Does -90% threat for invis make any difference if ur the last man standing?

[untold mulch]

no

Its mostly when the enemy can choose

if you are the only viable target, it does nothing

or mostly nothing

[thick wolf]

which is kinda funny since usually Valve doesn't do a great job polishing their game assets that much

insert almost every HL2 weapon viewmodel ever

[untold mulch]

Even if allies are alive, you can get bonked if you are badly positioned when the stealth runs out

[thick wolf]

or the pre-TLS L4D1 survivor arm rigs in L4D2

[frank ether]

Believe it or not HL2 had a rushed release

but its no excuse

HL2 weapon design and models are horrid

[thick wolf]

yeah I know, I got a sense HL2 does have some unfinishedness feel to it

[frank ether]

And not just that gunplay in HL2 is also really poorly made

[thick wolf]

cries in usp match, my brother in the imperium the glock felt more powerful

[frank ether]

and the combine AI just looks dumb in a lot of the open section areas

well part of it is I guess HL2 being a different game

but look at black mesa

that game has good combat

and its on source engine too

[thick wolf]

then again HL1's loadout in general is more interesting and more thought-out than 2's

which is utilitarian except it has the Quake loadout problem

[frank ether]

I was always of the opinion HL1 was the superior game barring the physics and well.. Xen.

[thick wolf]

even Valve admitted Xen was rushed

[frank ether]

Black Mesa just did their own thing for xen

and it turned out pretty cool

[lusty jetty]

Nah. Too much of this community is obsessed with theorycrafting and breakpoints.

Actually go use one ingame. And not just in the meat grinder. At some point you have to stop only evaluating things outside of a testing environment and see how they perform in-game in a variety of different contexts.

If you want to rely on the theoretical evaluation because "go use one" is "the weakest fucking point", then.... from a purely theoretical standpoint, only comparing numbers on paper, the Vraks VII absolutely wrecks the Kantraels in virtually every possible metric save Maniac damage, plus the ammo efficiency Shock Trooper talent grants.

So yeah, guy who is wondering about the upside, go actually use one so you can... find out the upside.

[frank ether]

bruh

[jaunty fiber]

He's not wrong. Trying to have conversations for fun on this server is like pulling teeth

It's either go math or go home

[frank ether]

you talk about math as if it doesn't dictate your gameplay experience

[muted knot]

I'm not agreeing but what do I need to do "the proper test" ? I have one that is kinda okay if I remember correctly

[thick wolf]

I tried the Vraks 7 DMR on a Damnation match

[dry knoll]

he's also not wrong in that a lot of theorycrafting here is done in perfect conditions which fails to account for the game interacting with your plans and actions

[frank ether]

Is there like a surge to here from reddit

[thick wolf]

it held up pretty okay despite that my build is clearly tailored for the ia lasgun

[frank ether]

genuinely baffling takes recently

there is nothing wrong with vraks 7

btw

[jaunty fiber]

No, you're just headsanding about how insufferable you guys are

[thick wolf]

context: I got the vraks 7 from Melk's

[muted knot]

I assume you use something along the lines of Headhunter/ DA flak/maniac ?

[thick wolf]

the milkman if you will

[jaunty fiber]

Most of the vraks gins feel fine

[frank ether]

I mean its fine

[jaunty fiber]

Hell they have for a lont time

[frank ether]

I prefer lasguns

but its fine

[jaunty fiber]

long*

I'm hooked on Autoguns lol

[placid swan]

did it brick?

[frank ether]

I just dont think it has anything over a helbore if you can play around the unique downside of slow swap speeds

[muted knot]

Nobody is saying that they aren't competitive ?

[jaunty fiber]

Well mostly infantry autoguns

[muted knot]

What

[thick wolf]

this is the Vraks 7 I got from milkman

[muted knot]

Ciag is top tier

[frank ether]

thats pretty ok

stamina to maniac, falter to DA

and doneso

[lusty jetty]

Ideally I would want Headhunter over Surgical but this gets me through Auric Damnation pretty well

I have also run it with both Surgical and Headhunter/Deadly Accurate and it is also super viable

[muted knot]

You run it with Deadshot ? Otherwise the extra stamina is making me cringe

[jaunty fiber]

Oh I was just buoncing off the topic of gun preferences

[thick wolf]

the build was tailored to the ia lasgun

[frank ether]

bruh opening salvo

[lusty jetty]

Fantastic roll

[jaunty fiber]

I like lasguns too but the sheer dakka the iags have is hard to put down

[thick wolf]

I haven't done a dedicated vraks 7 dmr build yet

[lusty jetty]

I've already gone over DA vs OS, I won't do it again

[muted knot]

I'll give it a few rounds, if it really suits me better than my hellbore im Happy

[jaunty fiber]

I REALLY wanna like the hellbores

[thick wolf]

what's DA in full name?

[lusty jetty]

Deadly Accurate

[frank ether]

didn't want you to go over it lmao

[thick wolf]

o

[jaunty fiber]

But I just can't make them pop

[frank ether]

deadly accurate

[thick wolf]

time to hunt for another vraks 7 with a DA then

[muted knot]

What's your definition of making it pop ?

[lusty jetty]

No no no yours is fine

Oh nvm derp

Yeah

[jaunty fiber]

Just feeling snappier

LIke the charge up is my sticking point

[lusty jetty]

Falter -> OS or DA, Stam to Maniac and you're golden

[jaunty fiber]

I'm really bad at the timing of it and it's done nothing but get me killed

[thick wolf]

tho lately I'm trying to find a good roll for the ia lasgun

[muted knot]

Yeah if you can't handle the charge it's not gonna serve you well

[frank ether]

If you're not going for crit headshot playstyle you're just hurting yourself on vraks

the gun is based around that

like it or not vraks 3 even took nerfs because of DA

[muted knot]

The other big thing that makes hellbore real good is the stupid bayonet tho

[placid swan]

I rolled this one too. Thinking of trading Melee weak spot damage for carapace? and Decimator for something else? What do yall think?

[frank ether]

helbore is lucky its damage isnt rly based on blessings

your bodyshot damage on helbore charged crit is still nutso

thats not so much the case for vraks guns

[muted knot]

Sounds pretty good I'm just not sure about how good carapace is on the axe

[placid swan]

Yikes, so no carapace rofl

[lusty jetty]

DA has minimal impact on breakpoints of value on the Vraks VII. OS is more consistent and allows for gunner one-shots without crit

HH + DA is indisputably better on the Vraks VII because of how obscene HH crit stacking is on the 3 round burst, plus, lower per round damage means DA has a huge impact on the III

But on the VII, DA just overkills when it crits, and does not permit for one shots when no crit, hence why OS works better IME

[frank ether]

which axe is this

[sharp ember]

a solid perk change, Decimator should be upgraded or switched to Headtaker. Just so you know, most people use the Rashad or Antax combat axes because their lights have horizontal swings to chop multiple heads off

[frank ether]

if its a combat axe

you just do heavy attacks vs carapace

[sharp ember]

and you should use Heavy attacks to chop crushers

ye

[muted knot]

Look at heavys

[radiant chasm]

yea

recoverable to usuable spot but

[muted knot]

You need OS for gunner oneshot ?

[radiant chasm]

it's an achlys

[sharp ember]

Achlys axe lights are all vertical, for no particular benefit over the other axes

[frank ether]

this looks good keep flak and brutal momentum

you can play around with the other two

[placid swan]

Ah there it is, 192x238x238.

[lusty jetty]

Non-crit, yes, but roll/build dependent

[muted knot]

Yikes

[radiant chasm]

does achlys have a consistent horde clear swing combo?

like the heavies? idk

[frank ether]

not as good as rashad if thats what you're wondering

I do a lot of push attacks whenever I use it

[sharp ember]

it has Heavy1 which you have to block or qq reset, and push attacks

thats your only horizontals

[frank ether]

I guess you can do heavy 1 into push attack?

[placid swan]

Hrm. Something I need to consider. At the very least I have a good Achlys now xD

[jaunty fiber]

That sounds pretty comfy honestly

[frank ether]

I mean its a combat axe

how bad can it be in the end

[lusty jetty]

fuckin Brunt

[frank ether]

they are all good

[placid swan]

Im using a lasgun to it fills in my heavy armor dmg gap very nicely!

[lusty jetty]

Can we spend 5k Diamantine per Brunt purchase to guarantee 370+

Please

[placid swan]

Dont say that too loud please.

[lusty jetty]

Please please

I am so sick of having no ordos lol

[thick wolf]

lately I'm trying to roll for a better ia lasgun, because this is what I have for it rn

[lusty jetty]

Or melk bux

I want premium grays in Melk shop

2000 per

[sharp ember]

or load my shotgun shells with diamantine so i have a use for em

[placid swan]

I think a better idea is for melk to have 370+modifiers.

[lusty jetty]

Yeah agreed

In other news this thing is as fun as it is silly

[frank ether]

that would still not guarantee good rolls funnily enough

[lusty jetty]

Yeah

"I want a 380"
monkeys paw curls
50 damage roll

[ebon umbra]

ooo yeah

[jaunty fiber]

Yeah stop asking for other ways to get good bases

What we have is fine. Just farm

[frank ether]

I've gotten quite a few like that

[jaunty fiber]

Also get "Buy until rating" This game has made mods mandatory so don't act like they don't exist

[placid swan]

That looks sharp!

[jaunty fiber]

That shit's goated

[lusty jetty]

Ya. My 370s Columnus IAG has 57% stopping power lol

[lusty jetty]

I need dockets

I can't "buy until" lol

[jaunty fiber]

Then play the game and stop spending them

[lusty jetty]

And I'm making a Cutthroat vet so now I have to duplicate my armoury

[jaunty fiber]

You have to spin your wheels for a while, there's no avoiding it

[lusty jetty]

Ya fair enough. What I do appreciate the game is similar to Diablo 3 worked when leveling up - if you are chasing a particular build, or a particular item, you will be disappointed

So instead you end up using new builds and different weapons and the variety is super fun

Where it falls down is when you're trying to improve on that like... your ideal 370 weapon with tier 3 blessings/perks

Then the grind sets in. The good thing is this game is super fucking fun, absolute pure dopamine straight to my brain, so grinding aint so bad

[placid swan]

The axe was 'ok' in meat grinder. I can understand the few voices that said the weapon type itself isnt the best.

Not sure if its the playstyle for me, But great to have regardless!

[fresh grail]

fuck it we ball

i would've liked some more finesse but its good

[fresh grail]

the can opener 💪

[lusty jetty]

This never stops makign me laugh lmao

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJDXYHE22-o

[placid swan]

Very true! Its a bit tough with horde clear but it really does that dmg.

[tiny summit]

Need Killing Floor SFW stalkers doing backflips and cartwheels as they approach me.

[terse idol]

Eh you can survive playing aurics with vanilla

[tiny summit]

Sanest way to approach a RNG on top of RNG weapon system.

[tiny summit]

I actually don't like buy until rating because most of my helbores that are good are like sub 360 because they dumped ammo and stability with max dmg, stopping power and charge

[lusty jetty]

Ya, then after some playtime at lvl 30 you've probably got one weapon that makes Heresy+ possible, plus you have a better idea of the talent tree and what style you want to play, having tried a bunch of different weapons

[terse idol]

Well like, I'm still in the opinion that minimum 360 weapons even without ideal perks and blessings can get you up to heresy, damnation... hmm I think you can get away with it

Problematically though if you're using diablo 3, those specific builds you chased that required certain items were also the top performing

[tiny summit]

Like people really need to actually put it into perspective for most people (hell all) are gonna be fine w/o the god rolls. You may get it eventually. But people say something is bricked or trash far too easily. I can understand to a degree because that's where you are. But we are all just hunting for the absolute min-maxing of efficiency.

[terse idol]

I chased these pair of gloves and a hat for months, because the dps change would actually help me get to higher rifts

[fresh grail]

on god, people scrapping slaughterer 3 because its 1% less than 4

[midnight totem]

I've started doing damnation consistently at level 26 with 320 to 340 base weapons

[dry knoll]

but my gear score!

[lusty jetty]

I mean that's Reddit/Discord/Internet

[midnight totem]

But... but. I was running VoC

And lots of frag grenades

[terse idol]

Yeah, over time you'll get gear that'll help you get out of lowest levels

I'm leveling a new vet and boy

That... sucks

These guns...

[tiny summit]

Like people look at a weapon with a ~60ish% stat and go "damn shame about that one" like bruh the actual margins in the stat roll isn't as dramatic as it looks

[lusty jetty]

Ya

[midnight totem]

Vet just needs to get to a certain point, or have certain weapons first in order to be effective

[lusty jetty]

The Meta bothers me too, and the groupthink surrounding Ideal Blessings On This Weapon

[midnight totem]

Like grenade replenishment is important

[terse idol]

Well

It depends on the weapon

[midnight totem]

Whether pooping one out every 60 seconds or on elite kill

[terse idol]

Some weapons are just that sensitive

rashad, BM

But very few weapons are like that

[tiny summit]

A grey helbore mk1 with less than 80 dmg can fail to 1 tap dreg gunners w/o some combination of talents and perks in the center of the meat grinder. But guess what? I'm shooting dreg gunners at range anyways. Longshot kicking in is enough.

[midnight totem]

Exactly, early vets don't have very good horde clear weapons

[tiny summit]

Caxes feel like torture w/o BM

[terse idol]

Yeep

[midnight totem]

And good melee talents come a lil later, so early vets can't make use of them either

[torpid sundial]

COME ON GAME GIVE ME SURGICAL 4 ALREADY

this is the third helbore 3 Ive went to transcendent

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[lusty jetty]

Here's what I don't understand on Surgical with the Helbore

It seems directly at odds with the entire point of Onslaught

[tiny summit]

I should build a helbore 3. I got mk1s and mk2s

[terse idol]

Oh sweet jesus just wait for melk

[lusty jetty]

But everyone says "you need Onslaight and Surgical"

[torpid sundial]

I think the general gist is that there's no better blessings

[lusty jetty]

But I get literally 1 stack of Surgical using Surgical IV when Onslaught is charged

[terse idol]

I mean I'd say Surgical infernus

[tiny summit]

I do too. But you will get at minimum extra 10% and then more as you line up a shot

[lusty jetty]

Like... 10% crit, surely there are more impactful blessigns

[torpid sundial]

infernus is especially useless on helbore

[tiny summit]

I actually don't run onslaught on my mk2

[cunning schooner]

which is the better recon lasgun?

[tiny summit]

There arent...

[terse idol]

Guhh

[lusty jetty]

Oh

Well then

lol

[torpid sundial]

10-20% crit is insane with helbore especially 3

lets you one shot anything even on the body

[tiny summit]

When the crit can save you ammo too. On a 9 charge shot on helbore 3

[flint lake]

Melee and nades do just well though the Autoguns are pretty alright for firing into hoards. I wouldn’t recommend wasting ammo like that though.

[lusty jetty]

YEah then I guess you just hang on a few sec longer for a Reaper or w/e

[torpid sundial]

also yeah I can basically go an entire game without any ammo pickups with helbore 3

[terse idol]

Early iags suck eggs

[lusty jetty]

And crit ammo talent

Fair fair

[torpid sundial]

its THE most ammo efficient gun in the game

[muted knot]

Yeah it's best in slot because the slot isnt great

[terse idol]

Baseline 360 ciags you can easily get away with

[tiny summit]

Surgical I don't wait for. It's just a nice bonus guarantee if I have to line up a shot

[lusty jetty]

Give us Opening Salvo

[terse idol]

But leveling stay away from iags

[torpid sundial]

yknow what maybe I'll try sustained fire and surgical if I find another great helbore 3 to build

[muted knot]

I'd run it if it were a thing

[tiny summit]

Yea. I run mk2. It's great to just remove yourself from the ammo economy

[muted knot]

Actually

Not great either

[flint lake]

Early on, I’d recommend the 3 burst auto gun with Crit feats

[muted knot]

You get your onetaps on everything small allready

[torpid sundial]

Like its probably higher dps against crushers and bosses

[terse idol]

That is especially stinks

[torpid sundial]

but idk

[muted knot]

I want some kind of blessing that makes you use both bayonet and the shooting

[terse idol]

Like

[torpid sundial]

wait

[terse idol]

Yeah with crit feats

The reload is slow

[torpid sundial]

with falter can you stagger monstrosities

🤔

[terse idol]

The damage is low

[torpid sundial]

on the head

[terse idol]

The stability is low

[cunning schooner]

Like can opener on the ripper?

[muted knot]

Yeah

[torpid sundial]

can opener helbore

[terse idol]

Honestly if we're talking leveling weapons I don't think you can go wrong with just going revolvers or.lasguns

[muted knot]

Make me really dig into the whole thing withe bayonet

[tiny summit]

There's sustained. But I'm charging a helbore and lining up shots. I'd rather get crit chance for free shots and less reloading.

[delicate estuary]

you dont have to reload as far as I know

the problem is the reset time for sustatined fire

[torpid sundial]

yeah sustained fire and surgical

[delicate estuary]

I am not exactly sure

[torpid sundial]

like maybe its viable

[terse idol]

Some folks before said it's when your weapon settles

[delicate estuary]

but you want surgical and deadly accurate

in any case

[muted knot]

Okay imagine a blessing like
" Break their lines"
After landing a charge special attack you get x Power or X faster chargerate

[terse idol]

No DA on helbore

[torpid sundial]

it doesnt do anything against all enemies except crushers, bulwarks and monstrosities though

[terse idol]

It doesn't exist

[delicate estuary]

I meant surgical and the charge time

I dont remember

mb

[terse idol]

Onslaught yee

[muted knot]

Onslaught

[lusty jetty]

I JUST WANT ONSLAUGHT IV

[cunning schooner]

Upon use of bayonet, next 3 shots count as fully charged for 4 seconds

[delicate estuary]

havent touched DT in 40 days due to vacations

[cunning schooner]

something like that

[delicate estuary]

[torpid sundial]

I dont really like mk2 and 1 because they charge too fast to guarantee crits with surgical

[tiny summit]

I'm talking about the alternatives to surgical. Since surgical and onslaught on paper seem at odds to each other.

[torpid sundial]

surgical is 100% needed

[muted knot]

Id say charge kill to get the whole idea of charging a trench and letting loose when inside

[delicate estuary]

not really

[torpid sundial]

for me anyways

[delicate estuary]

sustained fire would have to reset every time for it to compete

[muted knot]

You don't wanna charge it to 100

You just use it as a passive crit boost

[delicate estuary]

^^

[muted knot]

Unless you shoot like a crusher

[tiny summit]

I have onslaught 4 but I needed to charge a perk

[torpid sundial]

I usually let it charge to 3 or 4 at least to have infinite ammo unless there are a ton of enemies

[cunning schooner]

Is the recon still worth it? I haven't touched vet in a while so I'm out of the loop

[tiny summit]

No

[torpid sundial]

they'll buff the recon trust

[delicate estuary]

I cant enjoy HB3 anymore after trying HB1 due to the bayonet

[torpid sundial]

:^)

:^))))))))))))

[delicate estuary]

its cool having the option to not have to swap

to kill 2 shitters

[lusty jetty]

Ya the Mk3 bayonet is... something

[torpid sundial]

It sucks

But

[tiny summit]

You can use it. You'll also get far more mileage with a autogun with the same build

[torpid sundial]

I've gotten so used to mk3 helbore that I cant play mk2 and 1 because they do so much less damage in comparism

[muted knot]

I just feel like you don't really gain anything by running Mk3 over the other 2

[tiny summit]

Ready! Aim! Swing!

[cunning schooner]

It's a shame. I like when lasgun go brrrr.

[delicate estuary]

problem is you never really need the damage of 3

[muted knot]

You just do more overkill damage to most enemjes

[torpid sundial]

No, you just

[delicate estuary]

other than bosses

[torpid sundial]

dont take the damage talents

and put it into utility

[delicate estuary]

💀

[torpid sundial]

so you dont go into overkill range

[muted knot]

What damage talents are you talking About

[delicate estuary]

no charge time or surgical on a weapon that gets too big a benefit

[torpid sundial]

I picked all the grenade talents

and its amazing

[tiny summit]

Purely for maulers/crushers really. Like the big shot.

[terse idol]

Just take the mk4 lasgun get the full auto mod

[torpid sundial]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9b19ae1e-3d3b-40b8-98e6-88f313890ed8/helbore-3-nade-spam

I've been running this basically

[delicate estuary]

I forgot support builds

[lusty jetty]

100% this, I run no keystones and all grenade talents, super fun

[delicate estuary]

I never use them

[lusty jetty]

shredder grenades are gross

[delicate estuary]

cause I dont see a point for myself

[tiny summit]

Nah go into overkill make overkill half your total

[cunning schooner]

full auto mod, as in a blessing or an actual mod?

[delicate estuary]

but if it works for you then go for it

[torpid sundial]

I still have keystones for this because 12% damage boost for entire team is great

[flint lake]

Could never get a feel for the hellbore

[torpid sundial]

and makes shots easier to one tep

[muted knot]

Basically what I'm already doing with mk1

[flint lake]

Couldn’t stand the charge

[delicate estuary]

the actual mod

its 300rpm without having to sacrifice your finger

[torpid sundial]

I think you can take keystones for helbore 3 specifically because you wont be using its bayonet

[muted knot]

It definitely has a learning curve to it

[terse idol]

Helbore mk3 just felt clunky and the Bayonet isn't as good as the other 2

[torpid sundial]

I find it very fun

[tiny summit]

Exe toughness generator vet lmao

[muted knot]

If you are the kind of player to spam it's not yours

[delicate estuary]

I dont take any keystones to make bayonet work on others

I just like the option

of stabbing or staggering shit that gets filtered through the frontline

[lusty jetty]

I want to like Exe Stance so badly

[cunning schooner]

May be worth it as I already main the Mk IV

[lusty jetty]

But too many ogryn butts in teh way

And VoC too based

[muted knot]

Exec stance is just sad atm

[terse idol]

Gonna say it

[torpid sundial]

do helbore shots go through ogryns

[muted knot]

Friendly yes

[terse idol]

But if an ogryn is in front of you it's finr

[tiny summit]

Exe good. Exe fun. Exe MF enjoyer

[delicate estuary]

voc too broken atm when they add a 2 point tax with exclusivity it will be ok

[torpid sundial]

good good

[terse idol]

All those problems aren't your problem its the ogryns

[delicate estuary]

not sure how you can blame something that the players cant control

[lusty jetty]

I've gotten too used to VoC as a crutch

[hollow ibex]

VOC too good

[lusty jetty]

Panic button

Pants down

[torpid sundial]

but seriously though helbore 3 with throwing 3 nades every 5 minutes is extremely fun

[ember estuary]

VoC stacks.

[lusty jetty]

Press button, pants up

[thick wolf]

which of these stats look the least scuffed

[muted knot]

Demoteam already kinda does that

[delicate estuary]

are you expecting people to always know where vets are chilling

[torpid sundial]

and when you manage to land that 20% to throw two nades at once

[terse idol]

Blaming?
I'm just saying vets complain alot about ogrynsblocking shots

[muted knot]

Left

[tiny summit]

Break your chains.

[terse idol]

Just accept that if the ogryn is blocking your shots hes taking damage for you

[delicate estuary]

maybe I missunderstood, either way I dislike people blaming ogryns for something that the ogryn players cant control

[cunning schooner]

left

[hollow ibex]

when i play ogryn, i try to stand to the side

[terse idol]

And you can reposition, or just wait for an opening because you're not gonna be the one taking damage

[hollow ibex]

unless it's a hallway

easy

[delicate estuary]

let me just install a reverse camera to keep track of where people are located in a game where sliding and sprinting exists

[cunning schooner]

you want that stopping power

[thick wolf]

dam, cus the one I have rn has these kindof shitty blessings

[hollow ibex]

but most ogryns don't

[torpid sundial]

all the talents that go into that basically, except the improve grenade because I didnt want to sacrifice the two Focus target upgrades

[thick wolf]

aight then

[torpid sundial]

but with helbore you can easily kill crushers too

[delicate estuary]

instead of blaming th eogryns maybe blame FS for making certain weapons getting blocked by player characters

[tiny summit]

Love me demo team on my non VoC builds as my only regen. But it is funny taking both regen and demo team. More nades

[torpid sundial]

Its not meta meta but I find it very fun to juggle between my chainsword and helbore

[lusty jetty]

Literally all nade talents. Except twin blast

[torpid sundial]

Fool

[lusty jetty]

I enjoy twin blast but

[torpid sundial]

twin blast is a must

beccause its fun

[lusty jetty]

I enjoy other talents more

[muted knot]

All fun gets removed when the pull out time is that long on HB

[lusty jetty]

Yes

[delicate estuary]

I only go nade build if I am running smoke

[lusty jetty]

Agreed 100% it is fun and I like it

But I can never not have Volley Adept etc

[delicate estuary]

ventilation purge 😎

[thick wolf]

ok hadron

[torpid sundial]

Idk, I'm so used to the equip time now

that I no longer see the issue

[cunning schooner]

How long does it take for the salvo modifier to reset?

[thick wolf]

not sure how I feel about the roll

[terse idol]

I mean just blame neither amd accept that the ogryn will eventually move back after taking too much damage 😌

[torpid sundial]

Actually yeah I have that question too because I've never used that blessing

[lusty jetty]

not very long, i think it's weapon dependent - when the recoil fully resets

[tiny summit]

Weapon specialist should have faster swap times

[lusty jetty]

Like your Stability stat

[delicate estuary]

just reposition and besides after the 4th rework you get 1 point to spare for weapons that get blocked from ogryns to take the mark all shooters

[torpid sundial]

you know what

[muted knot]

Yeah

[cunning schooner]

I have the lasgun Mk IV

[delicate estuary]

there is always a way to reset

[torpid sundial]

I may try weapon specialist helbore 3

[terse idol]

I can't think abut it too much, it's silly how the most meta weapons also can just shoot through ogryns kek

[torpid sundial]

Actually might be fun

[terse idol]

Besides ciag

[delicate estuary]

my only problem with Exe stance is the stagger sometimes trolls you cause it yeets the target you are trying to get a reset on and then you lose the reset

[tiny summit]

Vape nation build

[thick wolf]

what should I change in my new agrippa shotgun

[ember estuary]

I ran Plasma last night, my brother ran Handgun, we walked through 3 aurics. In one of them 2 of us didn't even take damage ( 3 VoC's)

[torpid sundial]

nerf plasma

[ember estuary]

It is honestly ridiculous

[delicate estuary]

VOC stinky 🤮

[torpid sundial]

what was the plasma before the buff, did the quell hurt your hp directly instead of toughness?

[ember estuary]

Why would you need anything else if you can one shot elites

[delicate estuary]

how about you learn to position to use exe stance instead

[torpid sundial]

not false

[tiny summit]

After playing so much helbore and lasguns and going back to plasma for a few games last night...my god how do people not see how overtuned it is. Only way to go into orange ammo in auric is to blast everything single rifleman yourself and some individual poxlwakers

[torpid sundial]

I did learn to be a lot more aware to my surroundings when I ran builds with exec stance

[ember estuary]

Yeah, I am better at Darktide and VT2 than you are.

Don't worry about it.

[tall torrent]

Don’t
It doesn’t work well

[tiny summit]

That's what I'm saying. VoC made Vets soft. Needing their "don't touch me!" button

[delicate estuary]

exe stance is balanced cause it has drawbacks and voc doesnt

[tiny summit]

It hurt your hp

[thick wolf]

I have a mediocre shotgun infiltrator build, although i'm still working it out to make it, less awkward

[torpid sundial]

like it pierced through toughness and hurt your hp directly?

[delicate estuary]

ye

[torpid sundial]

yeaaah that sucks

[tiny summit]

2 point tax to make it feel like a full skill beyond bolter/revolver mag dumping

[delicate estuary]

it used to go through toughness if I can remember right

been a year sinc eI last played release DT

[ember estuary]

Exec stance is for people that can't tag.

[cunning schooner]

I feel like we almost need to be able to buy plasteel with how quickly it get's eaten up by hadron

[torpid sundial]

buy plastseel with diam

[delicate estuary]

I can tag just dont need it cause they are already dead

[torpid sundial]

please

[ember estuary]

Doubt.jpg

[thick wolf]

hadron recently has fucked over my new agrippa shotgun

[tiny summit]

Seeing all the specials at once is a room is helpful for my randoms

[lusty jetty]

Alright

I'll try Exe

[delicate estuary]

I dont even take it for the randoms its cause it requires more skill to run than VOC

[ember estuary]

If someone needs exec stance help in auric they shouldn't be in auric

[lusty jetty]

with Marksmans Focus and Columnus IAG

[delicate estuary]

lot more nuanced than a 10 second get out of jail free card

[tiny summit]

Been asking my randoms if they actually appreciate the shared vision or if I should drop it. Most like it

[cunning schooner]

no, allow us to buy it with Melk's currency ( forgor it's name)

[lusty jetty]

BUT if I don't take the "highlight elites for team" talent I feel like a dick

BUT I also need the talent point for nade regen so

w/e

[torpid sundial]

Melk hasnt given me anything good for a week

no good IV blessings

[tiny summit]

Demo team

[lusty jetty]

yes I have both

[delicate estuary]

if someone cant survive with a skill that gives you immunity and staggers everything every 10 seconds while being point efficient should not play auric either

[tiny summit]

Not that one

[ember estuary]

Who said anyone needs it? You're just bad and can't tag.

[delicate estuary]

give up the rending on the keystone and take the rending in middle if you can spare the points from somewhere

[terse idol]

Huh?

[delicate estuary]

@tiny summit

[terse idol]

Exe actually takes skilll

[placid swan]

I have found that while sharing intel is generally good, I prefer to spend points elsewhere and instead verbally communicate to my team what I see.

[terse idol]

VoC is just a free stagger + toughness

[torpid sundial]

one day I'll get you. One day.

[cunning schooner]

And this is why I'm saying allow us to use melk money to buy resorces instead of waiting a fortnight for something good to come up

[delicate estuary]

thats cause you need to invest into math

[ember estuary]

It is a lazy tag. Yeah, it gives your team an overshield.

[terse idol]

Its the besy

Exe you need to

[ember estuary]

VoC is better than exec stance.

[delicate estuary]

make 5 vets so you get 5 melk stores @torpid sundial

[terse idol]

Position wrll

Make every shot

[torpid sundial]

Fuck you're right

[terse idol]

Reload in time

[tiny summit]

There we go

[ember estuary]

Position well? You don't know how to dodge?

[torpid sundial]

wait

[terse idol]

Huh?

[tiny summit]

Lmao

[torpid sundial]

...do cosmetics work between characters

the bought ones

[terse idol]

You need to position well to make shots on target with exe

[delicate estuary]

yes if they are same class as the cosmetic you are trying to use

[torpid sundial]

okay

good

[terse idol]

And to take cover

[ember estuary]

Point at head, click on head.

[terse idol]

Yes

[torpid sundial]

fatshark isnt THAT bad

[terse idol]

What is VOC?

F

[ember estuary]

Not hard.

[terse idol]

F

[tiny summit]

Some do

[terse idol]

Reset voc

F

[cunning schooner]

Do items transfer between the same class too?

[torpid sundial]

I doubt so

[terse idol]

Uh

[delicate estuary]

not items but all blessings do

[terse idol]

Alot harder than the other 2 ults

Infil

F

[ember estuary]

VoC is better for the team, plain and simple.

[terse idol]

Drop agro

VOC

[torpid sundial]

wait, blessings between the same gun/melee weaps transfers between characters?

[terse idol]

meta slave

exe
chads

[delicate estuary]

yes all weapons that are shared by all classes share their blessings other htan ogryn obviously

[tiny summit]

Yes, for pussies

[torpid sundial]

TiL

[delicate estuary]

class specific weapons do not

[torpid sundial]

Probably because I dont ever use non psyler specific weapons on psyker

so I've never noticed

[dry knoll]

VOC for randoms, for when you get games like I just popped into where all of them scatter to the winds as soon as there is a horde and you get no regen

[ember estuary]

I am sorry you can't tag while clicking heads.

[delicate estuary]

if you have 5 vets you can roll 5 melk stores for higher chance to potentially roll a hellbore for example @torpid sundial then you grab the blessing from one of the 5 and then its shared

[torpid sundial]

jesus

[thick wolf]

yeah I'm gonna dip out of this chat for a while

[torpid sundial]

I'll go level a new vet rn

[tiny summit]

I can. It's also nice seeing all viable targets at once.

[torpid sundial]

Thanks for making me be more addicted to the game

[delicate estuary]

no problem

[ember estuary]

Is this your first fps game? Trouble with too much on the board?

[serene orbit]

we all really, really, truly, appreciate you letting us know

[terse idol]

What the

[tiny summit]

Are you stupid?

[terse idol]

I can't tell if you're trolling

Exe is actually like

[ember estuary]

If you want a challenege why even run with talents at all? You know you can click them off.

[tiny summit]

Can't tell either

[terse idol]

One of the higher skill ceiling talents in the game

[delicate estuary]

now this might be placebo but also yo ucan force farm t4 blessings if you craft a t4 blessing at blue item level. I mean that it has a higher chance to roll another t4 at yellow. Reason why I say its placebo is cause I havent tested it without doing that but it has been quite consistent for my last 800 hours. Take this with a grain of salt and knowing that its very resource intensive

[terse idol]

The entire game is based around clicking hesds

Exe doesn't even give you toughness back

When you use it

[ember estuary]

The skill ceiling in the game is clicking on heads.

[torpid sundial]

I wish it was easier to test

[terse idol]

And VOC is (meta) so meta that it's like the easiest thing to use

[terse idol]

Okay?

[delicate estuary]

I am almost done farming all good blessings on all shared weapons so I only need another 800 hours to have a valid pool

[terse idol]

That doesnt make exe easy to use

[placid swan]

Can I forgo this talent via a graphical workaround? Or is suppression a very real thing.

[terse idol]

Depends on your gun

Plasmaguns you won't feel it

[placid swan]

Infantry lasgun

[terse idol]

But lasguns it will wrench your aim down

If a gunner shoots at or near you

[placid swan]

Ah okay many thanks!

[tall torrent]

They need to just move the refresh node into exe stance itself

Exe pathing is not that great if you want anything more than a ranged centric playstyle

[torpid sundial]

I've built just about everything I wanted to built the past 220 hours of the game already so now I'm just trying to minmax some builds I really like

[delicate estuary]

it is a real thing

[torpid sundial]

like the helbore 3

[tiny summit]

Depends on the gun and your situations. Helbores have innate suppression immunity. Infantry Lasguns are gonna swerve and you will need to manually correct a lot more if you want to shoot while being shot at

[delicate estuary]

if we are talking like 5 builds depending on luck I will say it will take you probably another 200 hours

minimum

[torpid sundial]

fuck

Like most of my builds are with tier 3 blessings

some with one tier 4

[delicate estuary]

it took me 40k plasteel and 4 million dockets to farm all blessings on the vet shovels

[placid swan]

Perfect! Many thanks all, answered my question! I'll have to look for that extra talent point somewhere else xD

[torpid sundial]

and the ones with two IV blessings are

still havent seen PC4 ever

[delicate estuary]

one more thing blessings are shared among weapon types. If you unlock all blessings on a single shovel they are then unlocked on all the others. Same for shotties, revolvers, autoguns, brautos etc.

[torpid sundial]

so I gave up on that

[delicate estuary]

any weapon that has multiple types

[tiny summit]

Yea. If you want to be precise with certain weapons firing back at enemies it can be useful. Or can be like me some games and forget to slot it for infantry las and be standing in the middle of 10+ gunners "I'll click that head...eventually"

[muted knot]

Can you even trigger SS?

[torpid sundial]

Havent tried, but probably no

I'm just keeping it in case I need to take the blessing or I find some use for it

[eternal sable]

is getting trapped considered a down still

[delicate estuary]

no

or it shouldnt at least imo

[tiny summit]

It should.

[delicate estuary]

how is that a down

your hp didnt reach 0

[eternal sable]

why are you answering me if you are clueless

[tiny summit]

I'm joking that it should

[eternal sable]

classic discord users

[lusty jetty]

Lots of unnecessary toxic bullshit in here this morning

Be better

[delicate estuary]

cope

[tiny summit]

lil baby needs team? Down!

[eternal sable]

classic

[delicate estuary]

by definition being downed means reaching 0 hp

but I dont know what FS codes

so here we are

[eternal sable]

you are clueless

[jaunty fiber]

That's fine you can legit configure it to keep stuff at whatever rating you want it to to give yourself a good buffer of potential use cases

[eternal sable]

oh god

vets are using a helbore

[jaunty fiber]

I just like it for not having to click through everything manually. I'm also still fishing for blessings so I don't really care to keep anything belo 360 anyway

[tiny summit]

Yes. Helbore good

[eternal sable]

helbore top tier garbage

[delicate estuary]

[eternal sable]

every time i come here someones talking about it, classic darktide public discord

[delicate estuary]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-clickbait-thats-bait-gif-13073851

moving on

[eternal sable]

helbore is ACTUALLY dogshit

all new players get noobtraped by it

https://tenor.com/view/cute-adorable-duckling-haha-classic-gif-17283485

[delicate estuary]

true actually

[tall torrent]

Why

[eternal sable]

now this is proper bait, i like it

[tall torrent]

lol

[jaunty fiber]

What do I change here?

[eternal sable]

im not baiting tho

[tiny summit]

Lacerate and infested

[eternal sable]

helbore is actually a crutch

[shadow aurora]

Bait used to be believable

[tiny summit]

Idk to what but uncanny more value than lacerate

[delicate estuary]

perks imo and leave the rest but up to you

I would rather have perks sorted

[eternal sable]

most decent vet players already know how terrible helbore is

[delicate estuary]

personally

[eternal sable]

rather than explain why its bad just wait a week or two

they will swap off helbore

[lilac eagle]

I just can't achieve the same amount of kills per second on Helbore as any other las. Like they both do high damage and 1 shot anything under Ogyrns, but the Helbore has a solid 2 - 3 seconds between shots

Meanwhile I can literally spam every other las and get a headshot within 0.5 a second of eachother

[terse idol]

Just use the bayonet

[lilac eagle]

Its slow

[crude ermine]

I'd change lacerate like sprinkles said to precog and infested to either flak or maniac whichever is your preference

[terse idol]

Its still one of the best melee weapons in the game

[lilac eagle]

Everything about the Helbore is slow as balls

[terse idol]

Not the mk3 bayonet, use either 1 or 2

[eternal sable]

any discussion of how a helbore can be good are delusional

[terse idol]

What? Not the bayonetts

[tall torrent]

Lemme guess u were using mk3

[eternal sable]

all marks are dogshit, bayonnette is dogshit

[lilac eagle]

I honestly couldn't remember

[terse idol]

Now that is flanderization

[delicate estuary]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-thats-bait-tom-hardy-mad-max-gif-5055384

[terse idol]

WHAT

[muted knot]

Holy shit someone didn't take their nap today

[terse idol]

You can literally grab BM for the bayonett

[tall torrent]

Bait used to be believable

[delicate estuary]

not sure how many times I need to call it

[eternal sable]

you guys are nuts if you think helbore is good

[terse idol]

Its one of the best horde clearing weapons in the game

[tall torrent]

He’s just master baiting leave him be

[lilac eagle]

Iunno why a bayonet would be better over my PS

[eternal sable]

you can use a graia autogun and have more fun

[tiny summit]

Talk shit about helbore
Put on vibrate
REDACTED

[eternal sable]

smh keep discussing helbore op strats

[viscid sparrow]

Helbore mk3 is still decent for singletarget if paired with Shock Trooper, and unless I am mistaken Kantraels are still not as good as they were before the skill trees...

[eternal sable]

while i lurk and laugh

[delicate estuary]

do that if thats what you enjoy noone stopping you

[bleak bolt]

They're alright but you gotta hit headshots

I love my kantrael

But it def lacks in consistency

[shadow aurora]

We had the same argument about helbore like last week. I havent seen anyone say why theyre bad

[eternal sable]

you guys should try a plasma gun sometime with a GOOD build

not one off of gameslantern

[bleak bolt]

Plasma gun is absolutely broken lmao

Ez mode for vet

[eternal sable]

its so much better than a helbore

[lilac eagle]

I can kill 5 specialists in a quarter of the time with a Kantrael over Helbore

[shadow aurora]

Plasma is def getting nerfed soon

[lilac eagle]

Thats why I personally dislike them

[muted knot]

Cat boy pfp mutes user

[lilac eagle]

Its a fucking puppy

[eternal sable]

these vets using helbore are actually making the game hard for themselves

[lilac eagle]

An irl puppy bro

[bleak bolt]

Yeah I only use it for maelstrom runs and other difficult stuff because it does so well

[muted knot]

Ah the redditors are back

[bleak bolt]

But I wanna enjoy other weaps

[crude ermine]

Like revolver

[sterile wadi]

Recon lasgun

[terse idol]

My brother in christ yes the most meta weapon rn is better than any gun

I'm convinced you're trooollinng now

[eternal sable]

helbore has never been meta tho

[tall torrent]

They’re just baiting lol leave them be

[crude ermine]

I'm just joshoing use whatever

[delicate estuary]

have you tried the good build tho

[terse idol]

Because yes why use any other weapon but the plasma

[eternal sable]

its always been off meta

[muted knot]

Top tier, SSS Tier

[terse idol]

Yeah no you're right

[viscid sparrow]

I myself never touched bolter or plasma after the skill tree update, the ammo costs are a bit too much for my liking (I don't want to keep stealing all the ammo even with Ammo Aura)

[eternal sable]

im serious when i say the helbore has always been a noob trap

its a cycle

[bleak bolt]

There was one game where I watched man bayonet kill any special and elite we cam across and headshotted everything

It's possible

[eternal sable]

people join - try helbore - get into helbore - realise how dogshit it is compared to everything else

[bleak bolt]

I'm assuming he had a great roll on ot

[eternal sable]

• never discuss helbore again

thats the cycle

[shadow aurora]

Bongo whats actually bad about it could you say

[eternal sable]

its a 40k thing

[tall torrent]

Depends on which one
Mk2 is by far the hardest to roll for

[bleak bolt]

However let's take a moment to honor our boy, recon las gun

[eternal sable]

people download darktide thinking they want to be a guardsman

see a helbore and go nuts

[bleak bolt]

Pretty sure it's the mid tier mk1

Cuz the mk3 has the slash alt

And mk2 doesn't hit one shot consistently

[eternal sable]

mk 2 - mk 3 - mk 1 are the helbores in "good" order

[tiny summit]

Mk2 can get away w/o onslaught. So I'd say mk2 is easier

[bleak bolt]

Or maybe I'm wrong idk

[tall torrent]

Mk1 has better (easier as well) breakpoints than mk2 so it’s also pretty good

[bleak bolt]

I don't use helbored lmao

[tall torrent]

Mk2 is just super specific on the perks

[delicate estuary]

😎

its 1

[muted knot]

Perks feel kinda sucky tbh

[bleak bolt]

Yeah what I witness was incredible

[delicate estuary]

could be better but I cba rolling again

[eternal sable]

give yourself a few more hours you will see yourself

[crude ermine]

Man this ramen makes me want to dropkick the guy next to me

[eternal sable]

im assuming you have like 20 hours in dt

[bleak bolt]

Dude was running a krieg cosmetic too

[muted knot]

Absolutely attrocious that people play what they enjoy

[shadow aurora]

Ok thank you for confirming bait

[shrewd sierra]

What was his name?

[eternal sable]

https://tenor.com/view/klasik-clasik-clasic-gif-25398314

[tall torrent]

Nice roll

[terse idol]

Uh when you say it that way like

Just dont play anything but the p

Oh my god

[eternal sable]

im not joking

[terse idol]

I'm getting baited

[eternal sable]

that is THE cycle of vet players

[terse idol]

I can't

[muted knot]

You absolutely are

[delicate estuary]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-thats-bait-tom-hardy-mad-max-gif-5055384

[bleak bolt]

Back to this.. the bolter is just.. painful to use

[eternal sable]

yall are nuts

helbore is so bad

[bleak bolt]

I mean it's good but.. there are other weaps

[terse idol]

Also my bathroom door which is like on a rail just detached from my wall

I have to lift the fucking door to close it

https://tenor.com/view/kiera-katsura-beestation-ss13-kiera-katsura-gif-25417004

[shrewd sierra]

It's not bad, you wanna see bad try a Bolter.

[delicate estuary]

dont forget the hellbore on your way

[terse idol]

[bleak bolt]

Bolter is not efficient

[lilac eagle]

I don't get the bolter hate

[terse idol]

Bolters funny

[bleak bolt]

Reloads.. the ready animation

[stuck gorge]

how bad is the bolter i never used it lol

[terse idol]

Focus target mag dump bosses

[bleak bolt]

It needs work

[stuck gorge]

ive only used columbus iag

[bleak bolt]

But yeah it delivers dmg

But that's.. pretty much it

[lilac eagle]

Bonus reload speed if ammo still in gun + reload speed on specialist kill

[bleak bolt]

Lol

[delicate estuary]

me neither but I get it, I just enjoy the serenity it provides knowing that your breakpoints are bodyshots other than maulers and ogryn type enemies

[bleak bolt]

Why do we have to chamber or ready the bolt on it Everytime we pull it out

It makes the bolter just bad to use

[untold mulch]

I liked using Bolter

Though would need a lighter version for use more often

[muted knot]

I love how the bait went from "it's terrible" to "it's a crutch" ? Like what is it ?

[delicate estuary]

you dont chamber the bolter you bless it with the holy slap

its a 40k MP5

didnt you know

[bleak bolt]

[terse idol]

Bolter isn't the worst gun but it is... powecrept

[midnight totem]

The rite of percussive maintenance

[serene bough]

Seems legit

[muted knot]

HK bolter slap lol

[terse idol]

By revolver and pgun

[bleak bolt]

Bolter slap

[muted knot]

I just don't like the feel of the bolter

[bleak bolt]

Cannot unsee

[muted knot]

Personally

[bleak bolt]

That's it's primary issue

[lilac eagle]

I like the odd rythem to it

[tall torrent]

It’s not bad, it’s unwieldy
Slow reload + high recoil + slow draw speed means it’s pretty difficult to rapid shoot accurately against multiple priority targets, and the limited mag size on top of one of the slowest reloads in the game means you have to spend talent points trying to alleviate it

It’s just very slow at reacting to new targets

[lilac eagle]

See I just don't agree with that

[eternal sable]

bolter is dogshit now

[bleak bolt]

But man does it melt stuff lmao

I use it on my zealot to mag dump big things

[eternal sable]

they nerfed its overall damage and pinning fire gutted

[bleak bolt]

Everything else gets the criterator

[eternal sable]

its damage used to me~200 more

[shrewd sierra]

Don't agree that it has a long reload?
Don't agree that it takes 3-5 business days to pull out?

What?

[fathom rose]

we need a blue bolter variant with a higher draw + reload speed

[fathom rose]

high recoil?

[eternal sable]

back when pinning stacked on same target and its damage was normal it was super good

same with shredder

they over nerfed that bitch

[bleak bolt]

Or just fix the one we have now cuz it's not good (mechanics and animation wise)

[tall torrent]

Ik you can reset recoil with un-ADS but asking everybody to do it all the time seems too much

[fathom rose]

yeah

[delicate estuary]

bolter is perfectly fine just need to use exe stance which the majority of the community refuses to do cause VOC is easier to run

[bleak bolt]

I'll mention this again... Recon Lasgun mega buff when?

[lilac eagle]

Getting the two reload speed perks, after specialist kill + if you still have ammo in the gun, makes reloading as fast as any other weapon. The high recoil seems unwieldy but its literally just a case of moving to a new target and firing as soon as the cross hair 'falls' back onto the target,

[eternal sable]

needing to adjust your entire build for bolter is the classic

[delicate estuary]

would be fine if they made it ammo efficient at least

[eternal sable]

just to hit OLD brekpoints

actually the fatshark classic

[tall torrent]

You’re agreeing with me then lol

[lilac eagle]

I'm sorry but how is using the fucking feats a drawback

[bleak bolt]

Yeah I tailor my skill tree to shore up it's weaknesses

I think it's unpopularity is based on its "unwieldyness"

Which makes sense I gess

[fathom rose]

absolutely

[delicate estuary]

ye and thast how balance should be in the end of the day. Having weapons that are an answer to everything with minimal deviation in talent choices is not healthy

[eternal sable]

youre lucky to 1 shot a gunner with surgical pinning bolter nowadays

with voc

if they buffed its damage to what it used to be and keep everything the same i can see it being meta

[bleak bolt]

Agreed and on the flip side of that.. weaps should be fun to use. I shouldn't have to cringe Everytime I whip out the bolter

[delicate estuary]

the only problematic weapons atm are recons and waterpistol

and the fanning revolver

if they add some cleave to it

it would be easier to use

[lilac eagle]

I mean on my full ranged build I can fairly consistently 2 tap Reapers

[bleak bolt]

Not sure how they can fix recon without making kantraels irrelevant

[muted knot]

You know what also 2 taps reapers ?

[lilac eagle]

Its not like they react particularly fast that you can't land the follow up hits

[muted knot]

Hellbore

[lilac eagle]

Yeh in double the fucking time

Or actually, probably the same amount of time

[muted knot]

My man trippin

[lilac eagle]

Considering recoil vs the helbore's charge time

[delicate estuary]

they are only irrelevant if you adhere to the whole "I only use meta weapons" thought process

just make the recons ammo efficient

I would be down with that

[bleak bolt]

Oh I agree. My kantrael is my go to

[tall torrent]

It’s faster actually

[bleak bolt]

Plasma is for hard mode

[torpid sundial]

so the emperor gave me this is it worth it to upgrade to gold if I change sustained fire to IV or is it bad since the base modifier is low

[bleak bolt]

I just wanna use recon and go brrt on higher diffs

[torpid sundial]

Specifically to find surgical IV

[delicate estuary]

I run everything and anything that isnt a recon or machinepistol even in higher diffs and its perfectly fine

[eternal sable]

https://tenor.com/view/klasik-clasik-clasic-gif-25398314

[crude ermine]

I won't lie it be bricked

[delicate estuary]

brick imo

[torpid sundial]

No I mean

I want to find surgical 4

[delicate estuary]

ah

[torpid sundial]

I dont intend to use the weapon

[crude ermine]

Then go for it

[bleak bolt]

Yup, just when you're using your kantrael, your basically sniping spcs and el the whole time

[delicate estuary]

if you have spare resources

[eternal sable]

you guys see what i mean

[delicate estuary]

go for it

[bleak bolt]

Other teammates gotta down the big boys

[eternal sable]

helbore and new players..

[bleak bolt]

Unless you're running krak

[eternal sable]

its seducing

[torpid sundial]

wym

Ive played every other meta build already and its boring

[tall torrent]

Bricked

[muted knot]

Disregard it's just bait

[delicate estuary]

I run shredders for nades as I find them superior to both others and PS6 for armor if I have to deal with it. Even then mk12 does 600 damage with full left keystone stacks

[torpid sundial]

^

[tall torrent]

315 rating won’t have a very good chance of finding it

[delicate estuary]

craft to yellow see if you get lucky and ignore the bait

[fresh grail]

going full grenadier build with frags 🤤

[bleak bolt]

oh fo sure - i think the balance where other teammates have to shore up what you can't handle is better for the ecosystem

[delicate estuary]

but yea not sure about rating either @tall torrent had some wild shit roll on lower rating but I havent done any testing

[bleak bolt]

usually when i run my kantrael, i know i have a certain job to do

kill els/spcs, drop shredders on hordes and ogryn blobs

[delicate estuary]

I usually roll 340s and above for blessings

[tall torrent]

I think <360 has a pretty slim chance of rolling IV blessings?

[delicate estuary]

havent had that experience but again anecdotal evidence

and I have a rolled a lot of weapons for blessings

wish they would remove the slot machines

so we can play the game instead of playing a 40k casino

[untold mulch]

40k panchiko by Konami, my intrusive thought

[bleak bolt]

my lasgun build

also - here's the drip lol

[delicate estuary]

not a deadshot enjoyer I see

[bleak bolt]

i prefer my mobility - it keeps me alive but it does hamper my breakpoint

[delicate estuary]

only thing I would recommend is if you can grab the 10% rending in the middle tree and forego the rending on max stacks as its more consistent

[bleak bolt]

oh yeah?

[delicate estuary]

since its non conditional

[bleak bolt]

might have to try that

[fresh grail]

i like deadshot mostly for the sway, if you have an accurate gun you dont need it as much. The 25% extra crit is nice though

[bleak bolt]

yeah i figured my blessings would make up for that

[delicate estuary]

mk1 HB with deadshot and the no ammo consumption on crits is kinda funny

[untold mulch]

No idea why tf is only at max stacks

[crude ermine]

Would've been nice if it accumulated per stack

[untold mulch]

Mhmm

At least you would be getting value of it constantly

[delicate estuary]

I mean you can get it constantly if you play with the camo subtalent of that keynode

[bleak bolt]

this might be dumb question but - what does rending actually do for ranged weapons?

[delicate estuary]

cause you can stand still for 2 seconds get 2 stacks maybe 3 stacks

for 3 seconds

pop 3 heads

and you are at 10 and you get the rending

with 15 not sure

[untold mulch]

With how I played, this morning I used it in my Vraks build

yeah I cant

[crude ermine]

Ignore a percentage of armour

[untold mulch]

My brain yells at me CENTER FUCKING MASS

Skill issue though

[delicate estuary]

yea its hard to utilize the keystone but its always available when you need it if you can get headshots

[crude ermine]

It's why revolver with HC is stupid good

[delicate estuary]

I know a lot of codnitions to be met

but its nuanced so I prefer it

[crude ermine]

Oh and it's only on crits

[untold mulch]

But that, I am too mobile and too center mass inclined to use MF

[delicate estuary]

mobility isnt an issue like I said its just an accuracy thing without wanting to say skill issue since the keystone timer doesnt reset on headshot kills for a few seconds

[untold mulch]

Say aim issue

[delicate estuary]

get headshot sprint slide reposition

[untold mulch]

Because it is

[delicate estuary]

rinse and repeat

[untold mulch]

But my hand cant do head shots

I can do flicks to torso and bodies and all

But headshots just dont come to me

[delicate estuary]

if they would make it work like the psyker warp charges then it would be quite nice to use

[tall torrent]

Let’s say your weapon does 80% of its normal dmg against flak armor

Taking +10% rending now makes it do (80+10)% = 90% of its normal dmg against flak

Rending is a buff to yourself (works on all armored enemies the moment you hit them)

Brittleness is a debuff on enemies and often needs to be stacked (first hit won’t have effect), but helps your whole team deal more damage against the debuffed enemy

Rending/brittleness is capped at 100% of your normal damage, if you reach >100% normal dmg with rending, it’s converted into damage at 4% rending = 1% damage ratio

Rending/brittleness only works on armored enemies (flak, maniac, unyielding, carapace)

[delicate estuary]

as in you dont lose all

on reset

[bleak bolt]

yup - with my focus on mobility, sliding and moving doesn't keep me from benefitting from MF as much as youd think

[untold mulch]

Like I was getting constantly hit this morning because I required so much "focus" to get headshots that I tuned down enemies around me

[bleak bolt]

you just.. "Gotta hit your shots, kid"

[delicate estuary]

one step at a time like I said its not easy to use

[untold mulch]

Nah is a thing I never got gud in any game

Cant snipe

[bleak bolt]

it's not a blast all build - def for a focus on marksmanship (kek)

lol

[untold mulch]

My instics demand CLOSE KILL AND DO IT AGAIN

No time to aim, point shoot and focus on movement

[delicate estuary]

I been chilling with new knife and revolver regarding that. Exe stance with right keystone and fanning revolver

budget zealot

[untold mulch]

[bleak bolt]

ahhh okay - still useful since a majority of enemies have flak armored heads

but wont work on say a rager

[untold mulch]

Next I need to do a shovel

[bleak bolt]

or some of the dreg type enemies

[delicate estuary]

wish fanning revolver had like 2-3 targets worth of cleave

[tall torrent]

It works for both ragers

[untold mulch]

Get me some plasteel and time to farm shovels

[untold mulch]

Would be nice

[celest ermine]

I've read somewhere that the MK3 psword prefers Power Cycler + Slaughterer and MK7 PC + Bromentum

[tall torrent]

As long as it’s not unarmored/infested, rending will benefit in some way
But that benefit can be very small depending on the weapon’s innate dmg modifier against a specific armor type

[untold mulch]

In my zealot I run Revolver but only because shotgun slug requires loading 1 shoot 1

[delicate estuary]

I think you can run bromentum on both but people prefer bromentum on 6 due to its push attack

[bleak bolt]

wait so.. "maniac" is an actual armor type???

[delicate estuary]

but dunno

[untold mulch]

Because my Zealot demands shotty

Because the weapon of a priest is the shotgun

[delicate estuary]

yes

[tall torrent]

Yes

[bleak bolt]

bruh

lmao

[untold mulch]

Yep

Hell

[bleak bolt]

but its just their face

[untold mulch]

Unarmored

[bleak bolt]

"armor"

[untold mulch]

Is a type of armor I think at code level

[stuck gorge]

doesnt maniac also apply to trappers?

[bleak bolt]

well good to know then

[delicate estuary]

wait until he realises that the scab flamer is full maniac even tho he is wearing flak armour visually

[stuck gorge]

the armor is the brainrot

[bleak bolt]

💀

https://tenor.com/view/steven-he-emotional-damage-steven-he-emotional-damage-gif-23428142

[untold mulch]

Fatshark

What else to say