veteran-class

[tropic notch]

Not perfect but still good damage

[torn root]

actually ignore the crafting

GIVE US MORE LOOT FATSHARK

[tropic notch]

Raid loot

That doesn’t have a crafting limit

[torn root]

im just upset man

in vermintide

you got 3 items on win

then rolling gear was better 2

you lock stats on equipment then pay to roll everythign else away

[tropic notch]

We can only dream

[torn root]

now we complete 1 mission to only roll 1 piece of gear 2 times

3 if we are lucky

AND HAVING TO DELETE SHIT FOR BLESSINGS IS DUMB AF

[junior grail]

I miss Loot Die

Beating a boss there always felt rewarding

[torn root]

its just IDK why downgrade the systems

[rose wedge]

What should I do with this weapon?

[junior grail]

Darktide has to be unique

[junior grail]

I'd switch out crit damage and RevItUp

[rose wedge]

thoughts on what rev it up should be replaced by?

[junior grail]

Maybe maniac and bloodlettet

Bleeds help kill big bois easier

[torn root]

as an XIIIg enthusiast I would make a recommendation ***PERKS: Flakiac *** and BLESSINGS: Rampage + Savage Sweep/Wrath

[barren cave]

what blessings on m7 shovel?

[torn root]

if you ae gunna go the bleed rout that's different

XIIIg had brain dead horde clearing capability

it's hilarious

[ivory rock]

Aight brunt I see you

[torn root]

XIIIg has a weaker shredder than mk4

and the both struggle against Crushers so I wouldnt focus that

[rose wedge]

should i prioritize the 1 blessing and 1 perk change tho?

[torn root]

yeah change crit damage to Maniac, and Rev to Rampage

with maniac carapace you can delete Maulers and Armored ragers

Maniac makes it a 1 shot kill with shredder + heavy overhead

yeah even on my at 59% shredder

[rose wedge]

am i aiming for the mauler's flak armor?

I can't seem to get one hit via head shot

[torn root]

no

maulers head is carapace

so keep the consistency and just kill witht he rev overhead

that's without carapace but its unavoidable in your case

[rose wedge]

yeah i seem to be fine with ragers

just not the maulers

😭

[torn root]

oh maulers probably dont bother

im sure it takes 2 attempts

[junior needle]

Sweep instead of wrath on the 13? Euf

[torn root]

maybe carapae will help

[torn root]

Sweep or Wrath both work because of the moveset

it naturally cleaves 3 and has a fast ass attack chain

[junior needle]

If it's anything like the other chainsword, the lights can't pierce enough bruisers to proc rampage

I can double check though

Could've sworn I tested it before and they didn't

[torn root]

im not saying wrath is better

im saying its usable in place of sweep especially if you dont want to keep grinding it

[junior needle]

I'm not saying you want sweep either

[torn root]

sweep 100% its too easy to proc

lmao

[junior needle]

It's a matter of "can my lights pierce enough bruisers to actually proc this"

[torn root]

whats the code for bruisers?

[junior needle]

Or are you stuck hoping you hit not bruisers

to then get the power bonus from rampage

[torn root]

so renegade melees k

yeah its never going to

wrath would help tho i think

tradeoffs exist

idk the attack speed is just dumb

and you could just actively look for other dudes maybe

[junior needle]

Yeah, that's why you want wrath on that one

[torn root]

but anytime there is a hoard you 100% are gunna have rampage active so idk what to say

[junior needle]

Chainsword 4 has the same problem

Where even the sweeping light doesn't have enough cleave to pierce 3 bruisers for rampage

Depends on what the horde is made off

[torn root]

so imma just make a scenario right

[junior needle]

You can do poxes and groaners but any bruisers will mess up your rampage upkeep

[torn root]

bruisers to the front nothing but regular chaff behind

[tropic notch]

You wouldn’t want rampage the sword already dose ok damage

[torn root]

im sure ill be able to proc still

[junior grail]

Weird that the new chainsword rev is less responsive than the old one

[torn root]

sec

[tropic notch]

I’d go with cleave on crit

[junior needle]

That one is even worse

[tropic notch]

[quick steeple]

iirc Xiii has a stronger heavy shred finish burst

[tropic notch]

Not for right tree

[junior needle]

It's still gives less cleave than the alternatives

Although I suppose it doesn't fall off if you miss

[tropic notch]

Just use power sword!

6

[junior grail]

Chain powersword

[junior needle]

Bruiser action on a gray xiiig

[torn root]

^

[junior grail]

Old chainsword heavy cleaves bruisers right?

[junior needle]

Yes

[tropic notch]

I can understand if you’re playing zealot but if you’re playing vet pls use the pw

[torn root]

yea bruiser might be a slight problem

[junior needle]

Old chainsword can get around needing wrath if you use heavies to proc it, and because rampage gives power now

[junior grail]

Yea I suppose thats why the old one feels better

[torn root]

most i can think of is bash doublligh tinto heavy

they heav y can go trought htem maybe

[junior grail]

What about that supposed horde clear combo for new chword?

Push attack light light

[tropic notch]

And why use the chainsword if the devils claw exist?

[torn root]

yeah so you have to get to Heavy 3 to deal with them

which isnt too hard

[junior grail]

I'm not hardworking enough to light light heavy to get that third diagonal heavy

[tropic notch]

Feel like parry blows the rev out the water

[torn root]

yeah not hard at all

[dim herald]

It's okay to just use weapons you like, if you were 100% optimizing you'd only ever play Ogryn

[tall torrent]

DC swords' lights have horrible dmg lol

[tropic notch]

[tall torrent]

some people just don't like that

[torn root]

also chinswords delete poxwalkers and aunarmored

[junior needle]

Yeah heavy 3 can do 3 bruisers, but being able to light spam for rampage is just so much simpler. Especially under duress.

[tropic notch]

Not with crit zealot but I understand with other classes

[torn root]

mainly that killing poxwalkers means less worry about corruption

[junior grail]

I have one friend starting out who never uses Heavies, it hurt my heart when he said he hated the Heavy Sword

[torn root]

everything doesnt have to be so simple

this is how you know shit needs to be nerfed into the ground

for the game to be balanced

[tropic notch]

Can you do testing on the pw6? What gives more cleave BM or sunder?

[torn root]

this weapon

literally is the best melee

lmao

[quick steeple]

theres a correlation between the Lspammers and those that dont know about pushatks lol

[quick steeple]

wut...

neither cause you wouldnt use those

well BM yes

[tropic notch]

WHAT

[quick steeple]

not sunder

[torn root]

its legit not fair to compare P.Sword 6 to any melee in the game

[junior grail]

Also those who sprint from an enemy instead of holding block and dodge

[junior needle]

In fairness, everything doesn't need a constant song and a dance either. I just wouldn't play this game if every weapon required a set mix of lights and heavies to perform well. Or I'd just go and macro it and ignore that part of the game entirely.

[torn root]

i stant by that

[tall torrent]

BM ignores hitmass for 4 targets on weakspot kill, then regular cleavr kicks in
Sunder just gives insanely high cleave

[quick steeple]

^^^

[junior grail]

...i use Sunder haha

[tropic notch]

So bm is just generally more effective lol

What’s the best dc?

[junior needle]

Sunder lets your swings go through bulwark shields and crushers, which is a very important distinction

[tall torrent]

not exactly because sunder cleaves and staggers practically everything in front of you

[junior needle]

Also sunder gives 400% cleave

[torn root]

that's just bad lol ima be honest, not requing skill should make a weapon weaker for balance reasons

[junior grail]

The only argument for Sunder is that you can hit guys besides and behind Bulwarks

[quick steeple]

dont need to stagger whats already dead

[torn root]

if low skill weapons out perform everythign thats bad design

[tall torrent]

it doesn't one shot ragers on light atks so

[dim herald]

So when new players start out and every good weapon requires hours and hours of learning, how do you retain them?

[agile mango]

best vet melee weapon?

[quick steeple]

all you Kuro lol

[torn root]

i can say p.sword is good but its not as braindead as other weapons actually takes a bit of effort in comparison, so it should waveclear the way it does

[junior needle]

You're correct, but at the same time, performing repetitive tedium =/= skill.

[tropic notch]

Pw6

[torn root]

but it shouldn't 1 second kill every elite

like at all

[quick steeple]

it can 1hko a crusher mate

[torn root]

MAKE THEM USE OTHER SHIT

ITS THE REASON WHY WEAPONS ARE LOCKED BEHIND LEVELS

WHAT?1\

[tropic notch]

I do find ragers a problem when playing my vet ngl

[tall torrent]

but it doesn't 1 light ragers or maulers which is what sunder is really good at

[torn root]

THEN YOU GIVE THEM A BROKEN ASS WEAPON SO THEY CAN BITCH ABOUT THE GAME BEING EASY

BECAUSE THEY DONT HAVE TO USE SOMETHING ELSE

consumers are bots sometimes

[tropic notch]

Not the best perks but a good roll

[torn root]

like im actually learning game design and why you have to do certain shit for player retention

[dim herald]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w Here's a video from before you were born explaining the concept

[crude fiber]

could someone just for lols test a sunder +max wrath stacks power sword to see how many crushers you could swing through

[torn root]

if p.sword 6 was in the game from the beginning yall would not touch anything else except for flavor purposes

[agile mango]

its still the PS?

[dim herald]

Power sword mobility stinks give me a shovel any day.

[tall torrent]

wrath not needed
sunder cleaves a minimum of 4 targets regardless of mass

[tropic notch]

Probably inf

[agile mango]

also, is mk 6 better than mk3 for psword?

[tall torrent]

you're not getting much more out of wrath

[tropic notch]

Yes absolutely

[agile mango]

what makes it better?

[torn root]

ive watched this

[crude fiber]

well if sunder IS 400% then would it be 6 with wrath?

[tropic notch]

The move set

[torn root]

you kno he argues exactly what im saying in the video right?

powerful should be powerful for a reason

[austere mica]

Mk6 can block while charging or something and has a Pushattack-> light combo that kills a crusher from full

[agile mango]

what about the move set makes it better is what I was trying to ask, sorry for being vague lol

[tropic notch]

So does sunder turn the pw into the plasma gun?

[tall torrent]

not quite because cleave loses dmg still
but u cleave a lot of things

it's especially noticeable in karnak HM

[crude fiber]

id imagine you lose most of ypur damage from cleaving through a cusher/bulwark with sunder no?

[tropic notch]

It attacks faster along with its block cancel, it’s push thrust overhead

[austere mica]

wait, a DT weapon actually has a BC chain?

[torn root]

Like the reason in old SF why you only saw Ken Ryu and Chun-li in the finals was because they were busted EXPECIALLY THE 2 SHOTO CHARACTERS

in a roster of like 28

[tropic notch]

Yeah

[austere mica]

News to me

[junior needle]

The benefit is being able to stun things with your charged swings in a mixed horde that includes bulwarks and crushers

[tropic notch]

But it can go through a shield?

[junior needle]

Not necessarily getting your chip cleave damage

[tall torrent]

u can cleave through bulwark shield and continue hitting things next in line

but not hit the bulwark itself

[junior needle]

Natively the psword stops, with sunder it doesn't

[tropic notch]

Ahhh

[junior needle]

Yeah that too

[torn root]

another reason why this sword is problematic ngl

[tropic notch]

So no ap

[agile mango]

ty

[torn root]

i put it on to learn it

but im probably not taking it off for a while

[austere mica]

Power Sword may be silly but the basic shovel is still my best friend

[torn root]

why use braincells when balancing doesnt exist yet

[tall torrent]

also Imma just say this
PS6 is not "best weapon ever"
it's a low point investment weapon that solves a lot of problems a sharpshooter tends to face
but it's not without problems

[junior needle]

Sunder sunder and cycler 4 are extremely rare, in fairness if they're going to have that scarcity they should be good

[tropic notch]

The block cancel can 2 shot crushers and do tons of dps to bosses

[torn root]

it can have problems, but those problems dont make it less marginally better in ppls opinions

[tropic notch]

Best blessings for the base shovel?

[crude fiber]

well i dont know much about canon power levels but wouldnt a power sword cut through most of the enemies in darktide no problem?

[junior needle]

Yeah, psword would canonically be far superior to everything else we have

[torn root]

like its a valid reason that now when ever someone asks you if this weapon is good we sit down have a talk and compair it to the PS6

[tall torrent]

a practically working power sword would cut through practically everything
the one we have in DT is a faulty not-working-properly version that's used by guard officers

[torn root]

does it kill crushers and all elites in 1 sec no

[junior needle]

Excepting maybe other power weapons

[torn root]

one strike

[tropic notch]

Force sword > power

[valid slate]

Thinking of trying out the laspistol for vet, is the mk X pretty good? is this worth a pickup?

[austere mica]

Bromentum and decimator or skullcrusher, but go find a second source before commiting

[torn root]

is it good against hoard clearing in fear of bruisers stopping your attack

no

2nd strike

[junior needle]

shovel doesn't have brutal momentum

[austere mica]

huh

[junior needle]

Base shovel wants uncanny/deci for general use

[tall torrent]

yea, u can compare rashad next to it

[tropic notch]

Best axe in my opinion

[tall torrent]

u don't kill crushers as fast but u have stagger options

[tropic notch]

I hate the others

[tall torrent]

u can even put antax next to it

[crude fiber]

ogryn has brutal momentum, lets them do silly 4 crusher 1 shots

[tall torrent]

antax has even safer stagger

[austere mica]

I run my shovel with Skullcrusher and Decimator and it works just fine

[junior needle]

Deci/skullcrusher has max horde clear but you will take forever to damage anything carapace with it

[tall torrent]

a bit lower dmg and slower atk speed

but just thinking PS6 is end all be all is just not right

[torn root]

yeah but in some ppls eyes you have to understand, i COULD STAGGER or just kill

[austere mica]

Luckily I have a near perfect plasma

[torn root]

i rather kill here

but this convo started by saying someone rather have ease of use for a weapon while light chining

instead of actively working to Heavy 3

[tall torrent]

yea, reality is, that stagger for a marginally slower kill time is a very valid trade off

[torn root]

just use ps then

[tropic notch]

Also what’s the best dc? Is it 4 or 6?

[crude fiber]

i use PS6 on my ranged focus builds so i dont have to think about melee lol

[tall torrent]

on top of having a lot better dodges

[torn root]

i am arguing its okay that a weapon doesnt deal with everything inthe most efficient way

thats balanced

[tall torrent]

but combat axes are efficient

[torn root]

if you don't care about combo weaving, just put on the PS6 and learn to cleave away till it gets bad touched by fatshark

[tall torrent]

PS6 is a low point investment weapon imo
u can run it with very few talents into melee and it'll still do the job for u
but it's not the best in everything, it's just very good in most things that a sharpshooter needs to draw melee for

[torn root]

imma go back and now say XIIIg is good, let me add [for bots who like to swing without thinking and are ready to put in work when bruisers show up]

im a bot

so i like it

sometimes i like to think

[viscid vessel]

Anyone know what perks/blessings are decent on the chainaxes? Feel like a change of pace.

[torn root]

so i will combo weave

[tall torrent]

and this is in contrast to combat axes where they need more points into melee to have optimal breakpoints but they're much safer while having just marginally slower kill times

[tiny summit]

cmon fatshark give recons a buff!

[torn root]

imma behonest

make powersword only good for waves

and not kill all elites

that's more balanced than what it is atm

we need versitile weapons like chainswords

[junior grail]

I don't mind a simple 20% more ammo buff

[torn root]

and weapons that deal only good for armour or elites

some that are only good for chaff

others that are only good for cc

[tall torrent]

chainswords are not versatile enough

[torn root]

blame the balancing team

for most games at a 1 year lifespan this game hasnt really done a good job for balancing

[terse idol]

could be bettah

[torn root]

^

not calling it horrible tho, but needs work

[tall torrent]

idk I'd much rather nerf PS6 in dodges but that's just me

[torn root]

no

hit the movespeed more

[tiny summit]

depends on how you view, I think balance is in a good place if there arent a lot of outright trash options

[austere mica]

It's what we like to call a Certified Fatshark Moment ™️

[torn root]

removie the guard bonus as well

[tiny summit]

things are overtuned but Id rather some overtuned over flat out trash everywhere

[austere mica]

like a good wine their games get better with age, usually

[tall torrent]

did u watch the PS6 breakdown vid where TinyAngryCrab went pretty in-depth abt it

[torn root]

that's a better take then what i saw earlier ngl

[torn root]

i can give it an indepth break down myself

[agile mango]

more boss DPS than the new chainsword?

[torn root]

it's not healthy and a lot of ppl know that, to sit here and say that shit isnt busted is capping

heavy

hard cap fr my dude

i got that shit and immediatley took notice of it

[tall torrent]

I strongly recommend u watch that vid cuz he's the guy that came up with the PS6 rework iirc

[torn root]

the only thing you gotta deal with is not dashing as far or moving slightly slower. while you can block more and Cleave heads, along assasinate even the tankiest enemies aside from monsters

[tiny summit]

just wonder whether they want to focus on the weapon balance or the enemy cast balance

[junior grail]

I'm just waiting for the Darktide Roguelite game mode

[torn root]

would be fire

[austere mica]

wonder how that would work considering the skill tree

[gilded rock]

I haven't heard much about the new chainsword, what's the consensus on the thing?

Looks cool and the moveset seems good

[austere mica]

probably the same

[tall torrent]

just go watch the vid honestly

[torn root]

link it

[tall torrent]

https://youtu.be/ggcSlbYWTn4?si=GKdXMOIlFKbZ4uoS

[tiny summit]

Darktide mult mission raids

[austere mica]

Now that I think about it a lot of the skill tree nodes feel like chaos wastes blessings

[torn root]

oh milkandcookies video

watched it already

[tall torrent]

it's a bit outdated but

[austere mica]

the only real issue is we have no good reason to pick up random stat boosts during a long multi engagment mission

[torn root]

whats the point in linking this btw|?

most of what in it is known to a good chunk of currently

[ivory rock]

I got no clue what's good on these guns but I'm chill w this so far

[tall torrent]

he mentioned how it's way more block focused than dodge focused

[junior grail]

2nd Hive City so corrupted that the maps are rng, so we dive in but with only base gear to avoid losing important stuff. Work our path all the way to the top of the spire to get lifted off.

Rewards are based on how much we achieved on the way up

[torn root]

which i mentioned, that's noted

[tall torrent]

and the block timing is finnicky

there are going to be cases where u lose the powerup because u got hit immediately after u swung once

it happens

[torn root]

thats fine

but generally you can just shove dudes in front of you and just go back to doing what you were before

[junior grail]

I wonder how viable is a non powered powersword build

Ie BM and Slaughterer

[torn root]

IF weapons had different shove cones

that would be a good change to add in

in the shove had lees impact on enemies as well

[junior grail]

Thats a great idea

[torn root]

but oo i can block more im more block focused doesnt mean shit

it really doesnt

[tall torrent]

push already has differing stagger between weapons iirc?

[austere mica]

it meant something in Vermintide

not here though

[junior grail]

Stagger had value in VT2

[austere mica]

because there is only a single shield

[torn root]

pretty sure someone weapons have more than the base

like maybe shield

[junior grail]

Waiting for Zealot to have Sword and Shield

[torn root]

on ogryn

but there needs to be move variance, thats a more impactful difference in weapons

imo

[junior grail]

It wouldn't break lore for Zealot to have a Flail right?

[torn root]

why can my knife shove everything in 180 degrees?

[austere mica]

why would it?

[tall torrent]

That’s what I mean by it’s a very low investment pick for sharpshooter

[neat stratus]

I dont know why Ogryns are so annoying when they use vc

Theyre always complaining, literally to no end

[tacit sonnet]

Can someone explain how Weapons specialist works? It says I get +33% crit hit chance per stack with 10 stacks maximum for 5 seconds. But I don't believe this shit just gives me + 333% crit hit chance for 5 seconds, how does that work?

[white minnow]

there do exist differing efficient shove angles between weapons

[tall torrent]

It gives +33% crit chance per stack (max 10) for 5s for the first shot

[austere mica]

it gives it for the next attack within 5 seconds

[tacit sonnet]

wait, it's only ONE SHOT?

This sucks

[austere mica]

yeah

still slightly nutty

but balanced

[tacit sonnet]

Why the fuck would I need 333% crit hit chance for ONE SHOT

[white minnow]

with the knife (and 1-bar push weapons in general) having some of the worser push angles

[austere mica]

you can get some funky breakpoints if I remember right

[tall torrent]

Revolver

[misty quest]

You use it on revolver

[torn root]

like 25% reduced block cost is crazy now that i think about it

[austere mica]

you can get 3 stacks and then confirm a crit, you don't need all 10

[tacit sonnet]

If I'm using a fast firing weapon this crit is not going to do shit

[austere mica]

yeah

not designed for fast weapons

[neat stratus]

So you can crit 3 times in one

[tacit sonnet]

I know, still bad

[austere mica]

its designed for a quick flick with a high damage weapon to kill a special or elite then back to melee with some buffs

[tacit sonnet]

So pretty much the best way to play with recon lasgun is not taking any keystones at all

[torn root]

not designed for that

[austere mica]

mark is still good

mark is good for any build

[tall torrent]

Unfortunately the best way to play with recon lasgun rn is to pick up an infantry autogun

[tacit sonnet]

I'd rather get more crit chance

[tacit sonnet]

so true

[tacit sonnet]

But if I want a recon, I have to skip all keystones

[torn root]

brutal

lmao

[austere mica]

and sadly true

[quartz sapphire]

My kills over 30 meters penance really hasn't moved

[umbral scaffold]

Stripped down is so underrated

[misty quest]

Recon isnt the greatest since they nerfed the interaction with shocktrooper

[umbral scaffold]

With 0.5s stamina regen delay you can also sprint slide forever

[austere mica]

recon lasguns were good for like a 2 week strech or something and then a bug got fixed

[tacit sonnet]

There were no bugs, fatshark just decided than 1 month is enough and then nerfed EVERY SINGLE THING about recon

[tall torrent]

How do u propose PS6 get nerfed

[tacit sonnet]

damage, ammo, crits, blessings, talents, every single changed made them worse

[torn root]

remove it from the game

jk

[tacit sonnet]

Recon lasguns are back to shit tier

just how it always was

[misty quest]

Just use mk4 and full auto mod lmao

[torn root]

honestly if they just cut the damage it does to Carapace in half im fine with that, or maybe not so heave, a 1 sec kill while clearing hordes is still too nutty in my eyes

that's way more versitle than the ''versitile'' weapons

[tall torrent]

I don’t think it really needs to be half, just take away the 2 shot breakpoint
Make it so if you build for breakpoint, you kill in three empowered strikes (push atk + L4 + L1)
But if you don’t, you need to energize again

[umbral scaffold]

Power Sword is fine as it is, the thing that makes it "nutty" is Power Cycler

[tacit sonnet]

Take away power cycler and suddenly power swords are terrible

[torn root]

really feel like the archetypes should be: Crowd Control, Horde/Chaff Killing, Specialist [For dispatching Special], and Versitile [Like 50% EFFECTIVE AT DOING ALL JOBS]

[tall torrent]

Yk what else
Increase PS6’s stamina cost for push

[torn root]

i actually agree with that one

like 100%

[tall torrent]

If that push atk combo is the worst thing abt it, make it so it can’t push as often

[torn root]

you gunna be a broke bitch, then be broke on stamina economy too

[tall torrent]

It’s either of these imo

I don’t think it needs that combo’s dmg nerfed on top of push stamina cost increase

[torn root]

both of your suggestions

3 powers attacks to kill crushers

[tall torrent]

That’s a bit too much and makes combo less relevant than just doing L1~3 repeat

[torn root]

and keep the cleave

make it versitile

and make other weapons that can focus on killing elites dispatch crushers faster

like thunderhammers lost their identity

[tall torrent]

Because u also have to compare PS6 to its main competitors

[torn root]

actually

[torn root]

stamina increase would be a marginal nerf

most of use run stamina regen already

and we have regen delay

[tall torrent]

Not if you make the stamina cost 4 bars

[torn root]

make it 3

lmao

[tall torrent]

Nah 4

You wanted to nerf it hard

[white minnow]

i'd just nerf the damage instead of messing with pushes

simple nerf

[umbral scaffold]

You can do push attacks even at 1% stamina so that nerf would be pointless really

[torn root]

bro causing it to just require 3 hits is enough for me atm

[torn root]

not pointless

[tall torrent]

The damage would be more complicated cuz then it demands power cycler 4 more, which is a HIGH RARITY blessing that took some people 1000 hours to find

[torn root]

it having a higher cost means you kinda gotta chose between shoving or blocking

more actively

[white minnow]

i mean power cycler is a whole bag of trouble of its own

unless fatshark is willing to make a drastic change, power cycler is inevitably here to stay

[torn root]

requiring a high rarity blessing should be a thing in the game

ngl

keep the power fantasy where the power is

[umbral scaffold]

Only time you need to really block is when bosses focus you or you got surrounded with no easy way out

[torn root]

that's when your shove cost will matter when its at 3 or 4

literally

you are legit proving that it matters

[umbral scaffold]

Just nerf it's dodge count from 4-3 to 2-1.

[torn root]

you cant block your way out of a bad situation when you have less resources to do so

[tall torrent]

but, if the thing could still 2 shot, people newer to the game could get away with PC3 instead of PC4

[white minnow]

rip deadshot users using the ps6

[tall torrent]

and PC3 is not as rare

[tall torrent]

nah that's too much lol

[white minnow]

but you can just do two activated push-attacks

the activated stab has a higher damage against cara than l3 specifically for this reason

[tall torrent]

I think everyone here already knows PS6 dodges suck horribly

[white minnow]

if you can't hit the two-shot BP with PA -> L3, then you can (more easily) do it with two PAs

[torn root]

yeah if 3 shotting was locked behind PC4 id be 100% down for that

thats actually a valid reason to make ppl want to grind

still buff grinding tho

at this point you legit dont need PC4 or BM 4

3 on both is the Breakpoint

[white minnow]

and there's block-cancelling as well, making it less punishing to have to constantly reactivate into the PA

[torn root]

that can stay

shit's not easy

is actually skillful

[white minnow]

it's fairly easy once you get the hold timing down

[torn root]

everythign should be easier when you PRACTICE

that's good game design

[white minnow]

it didn't take me that long to get used to it though

[tall torrent]

I’m not a fan of locking player power behind RNG grind

[torn root]

lmao

[umbral scaffold]

Thunder Hammer had the same dodge count before it got buffed by one.
For how versatile the Power Sword is and how many breakpoints it can hit I'd say it would be a fair trade to have gimped defenses on it.
Makes it a high risk high reward weapon like the Thammers.

[torn root]

play monsterhunter

lmao

[white minnow]

it's just special and push-attack

[torn root]

a lot of games lock power behind grind

MMOs in general too

[tall torrent]

But locking power behind 1000 hours is dumb

[torn root]

Rougelites

[umbral scaffold]

This isn't an MMO or Rougelite

[torn root]

i said buff grinding btw

not sure you read that part

1k hrs is crazy

[torn root]

iight then fucking CoD

[umbral scaffold]

Grind would be fine if it wasn't RNG gated

[torn root]

wtf are you gunna say now

stop the dumb logic

mad games lock power behind grind

[tall torrent]

U also have to compare PS6 to Rashad & the two new shovels in terms of general use and killing power

[tacit sonnet]

My cursed recon build, thoughts?
https://i.imgur.com/U5KiJwJ.jpeg

[torn root]

yes im not saying you dont have to

its still a nutty weapon

[umbral scaffold]

Do guns perform differently depending on what kind of gun you unlock? Do you have to grind the same weapon with 5 random stat bars with 4 random variable which you can only change two of?

There is grind and then there is GRIND

[tall torrent]

I don’t think you need volley adept for recon lasguns

[torn root]

DO GUNS PERFORM DIFFERENTLY BASED ON WHAT YOU UNLOCK FOR THEM IN COD

is that a serious question\

IS IT?!

[tall torrent]

Yea, relatively minor differences though?

You’re not looking at massive ttk breakpoints

[torn root]

the randomness is an addition to Darktide

[umbral scaffold]

I meant that you have to unlock them repeatedly like here

[tall torrent]

Just because an attachment takes 1 more hour to unlock

[umbral scaffold]

To get a result you want

[torn root]

doesnt ommit the fact that a fuck ton of games and genres hav grind

it should take hours to grind the best of something

im not saying lock that shit behind a 2year grind

[umbral scaffold]

It already does what are you on about

[torn root]

yall came up with that logic

[bronze atlas]

The darktide grind is an annoying combo of long AND random

[umbral scaffold]

Some people will never get a IV version of a certain blessing because RNG

[tall torrent]

There’re simple intuitive progression systems (which COD uses), and there’re also heavy RNG based systems

[bronze atlas]

spend 2 million dockets at brunt and get no bases
Back to the factory!

[umbral scaffold]

Some people will never get a weapon with 80% in all the stats that matter

[tacit sonnet]

the grind in darktide is still not amazing, melk could use some improvments, 97% of the time he sells garbage

[torn root]

buff the grind then

[tall torrent]

Sire Melk’s garage sale

[torn root]

thats the 6th time im saying that btw

[tacit sonnet]

Red weapons could solve the problem

[tall torrent]

I wish it was as simple as just saying “buff the grind”

[torn root]

it legit is

you change the numbers

of something happening

[bronze atlas]

It wouldn't matter (as much) how random it was if the grind was quicker
It wouldnt matter how long the grind was if it wasn't so random

[junior needle]

Recons are big shit even with exe damage boost. You're not gonna get much out of it comparatively.

I'd swap weakspot damage out for suppression immunity since they have very poor finesse modifiers and you're going to get very little value out of it. Reload speed isn't really necessary, they have fast reload. I'd also try and grab rending strikes.

[torn root]

its not even 1 line of text

its highlight a numbers press another 1 or 2 numbers

and asave

if you know how coding works

[umbral scaffold]

They will introduce some tedious bullshit for reds, mark my words.
Bars only go to 80% now, reds will go to 100% but only for one bar the rest will still be random up to 80%.

[tacit sonnet]

I know that there are shit

[tall torrent]

Lemme put it this way
As someone who has spent time working in game industry knowing how that pipeline goes, it’s really not “simple” by any means

[torn root]

the same way you can edit the graphics file in this game is the same whay they edit drop chances and shit

[tall torrent]

And I really wish it was as simple as that

[torn root]

just that they have to load it to ship on the next update

[torn root]

so you are telling me whne they code the drop chance for an item in a game its not just a few numbers they put in for the chance

i need a yes or no right now

[tacit sonnet]

It's a recon, fast firing + huge accuracy, suppression immunity is not that important and with how awful this weapon is, I'll take any damage increase

[torn root]

the number dictates the randomizer and how often it would show up on the randomizer

you can legit code a loded dice roll in a simple manner

[tall torrent]

When you say “when they code the drop chance” do you mean the exact moment when they code it, or all the things that have to be discussed and sorted so they can get to the coding part

[tacit sonnet]

But I think I'll remove reload speed and reciprocity for a basic focus target keystone

[tall torrent]

Because it’s the things that have to be sorted out before things happen that are the most difficult

[tacit sonnet]

or maybe leave reciprocity

[tall torrent]

Without sufficient data to back up any claims, you’re just not convincing enough and that is a very sad reality

[torn root]

you read that out loud and still typed it

i said code, not shit about discussion lmao

[junior needle]

Your shots can still go surprisingly wide while suppressed. But it is less of an issue on automatics.

[torn root]

talking about the coding part of the coding, my bad

[tacit sonnet]

I'm not sure what's better, 20% damage or crits from reciprocity

[torn root]

pipeline shit is other than what we are talking about

[umbral scaffold]

https://tenor.com/view/darktide-hak-jabb-gif-892289627481122892

[tall torrent]

The code itself? Yea much simpler
Getting the team together to decide to actually change the code to that? Way more complicated

[torn root]

weather someone wants it to be easier or not is different completely

[tall torrent]

I’ve been talking abt pipeline this whole time

[junior needle]

I found reciprocity to not be up very often outside of melee.

[torn root]

not talking about if the team wants to do it

[tall torrent]

Well that’s the hard part is it not

[torn root]

i literally talked about if they WANTED TO its a simple process [AFTER AGREEING]

[junior needle]

Or to stack very high.

[tacit sonnet]

I am not expecting even 20% crit chance, 10% would be great

[torn root]

im not gunna start talking in parentheses, im typing pretty blatantly

[zinc sundial]

Does the hotshot build still work?

[tall torrent]

^

In melee it stacks up fairly easily
Outside melee you’re not getting much use out of it

[tacit sonnet]

but yea, if I remove reciprocity and superiority complex, I can get focus target with 8 stacks

[tall torrent]

8 stacks modifier is not the best thing

[torn root]

keep superiority complex

you can use focus target at just 5

[tacit sonnet]

keep superiority complex?

ok

[tall torrent]

If you don’t have redirect fire, take it, that’s way more damage than 8 stacks

[torn root]

its probably best to use it frequently and not aim only to use it at max stacks

[junior needle]

Depends on what exactly that is

[zinc sundial]

I think it was recon lasgun with insane crit rate and fire

[tacit sonnet]

On recon lasguns? I guess the build works, except recon lasguns are terrible pieces of hot shit garbage

[zinc sundial]

Crit rate gave you infinite ammo

[tall torrent]

Yea I get u
I just wish there’s actually sufficient data to suggest that pivoting a change is actually worth the time, effort & risks involved

[junior needle]

Recon lasguns and their interactions with shocktrooper got gutted. Also recons didn't give you infinite ammo even with max crit and 100% headshot uptime.

[zinc sundial]

I might be wrong then

[tacit sonnet]

That's the build I'm trying to make currently

[junior needle]

Only surgical helbores achieved truly infinite ammo

[torn root]

thats why developers and even upper managment should engage more with players and the community

[zinc sundial]

Whats a good mg12 build then

[torn root]

my favorite games studios atm are Grinding Gear Games and Larian

[tacit sonnet]

well, for recons it was "infinite"

[tiny summit]

have you engaged with gamers? I wouldnt wish that upon them

[torn root]

because they listen and Communicate

[tacit sonnet]

You had so much ammo that survivalist half of the time gives you more than you spent

[zinc sundial]

It was nice

So what would a good well rounded mg12 loadout be

[torn root]

and yet some of the well praised games have

[tall torrent]

I think that also comes down to target audience
Some gaming communities are just way more volatile than others

[torn root]

look how good Path of Exile got

[tacit sonnet]

All they had to do was nerf shock troop for recon lasguns, THAT'S IT if they wanted a nerf

no, they had to gut it

[torn root]

then choose from the pool that match your target

not hard

not at all

you also have content creators

ppl on your FORUMS

you HAVE to make an excuse for it not to make sense

what maybe the developers are shy

yikes

[umbral scaffold]

Is this buddie's first Fatshart game?

[torn root]

tf are you on about?

[umbral scaffold]

They pretend to do that but actually dont

[junior needle]

Ironically 2/3 of the recons were still mediocre, and only the 6d was actually good. Then all of them got nerfed with crit strings and shocktrooper.

[umbral scaffold]

The interact with the community thing

[torn root]

then its not the samething im talking about

obviously

[tall torrent]

What’s the shock trooper internal CD rn

[junior needle]

2 got a vanity buff to its damage numbers but it still has the worst dps

[torn root]

GGG literally does this

and went from being a small indie company to a very respected one about to make their 2nd game

[junior needle]

As far as I'm aware it doesn't have an icd, it just makes it so only the first crit in a string doesn't use ammo.

[torn root]

this isnt even fatsharks 3rd iirc

i rescind that last part

[junior needle]

Well, that depends. A lot of people shit on Chris Wolcen for his "vision".

And their overall poor balancing of skills.

[torn root]

A lot of ppl is majority OR?

A lot of PEOPLE do SHIT

pretty vague

[junior needle]

I have no access to polls so I can neither confirm nor deny either way

[jaunty tinsel]

What are the difference between the 3 devil's claw swords? Specifically, which one is best for cleaving through hordes?

Also I really like Recon. Shame they nerfed it, thought it was wise to build around crit for it with how ammo-hungry it is

[junior needle]

But there's been a lot of negativity of media platforms and from high profile players over time about how GGG chooses to balance the game.

[torn root]

up until recently Darktide had mostly negative reviews community wide

that has NEVER happend to POE, who have been listening and communicating from the very beginning

[junior needle]

It is wise, but the guns have been dumpster tier for the majority of the games lifespan. They need more than an apparently unintentional band aid.

Nerfed shock trooper just isn't enough

[torn root]

lets say there are about 23ish top PoE community members

fraction of them no

now

cant say Ziggy

he works with them directly

Zizzaran talks about it

[junior needle]

They definitely have better press than obesefish after the recent debacle

[torn root]

the top community members always have pod casts

they talk about balancing and are givien the reasons for it

and the skills and items still always get a change because of the talks

I'll give that Fatshark tried in the past

[junior needle]

"We can't nerf these massively overpowered skills because the use rate is too low" was my favorite reasoning for why some skills are allowed to be so much better than others

Meanwhile other skills that never get used are also dog for years

[torn root]

nah quite that and share that link

that dosen't sound genuine at all

[junior needle]

A few streamers talk about it, I've heard something about it from ghazzy at least

Let me see

[torn root]

the old skills that havent been used get touched too, a chunk of them did last league

[torn root]

and guarentee those skills got touched in some way

guarentee

[junior needle]

It was back when seismic trap was OP I think

[torn root]

the only thing in that game that doesnt get a per update or path touch is usually uniques

[junior needle]

And the #1 leaguestarter

[torn root]

was

see that you had to type was

because guess what

it got touched now didnt it

[junior needle]

Yeah, much later

[torn root]

so it still changed no?

[tall torrent]

Welp at the very least I’m pretty interested in what FS will add in the coming months for new stuff

[torn root]

balance doesnt take time

in poe that games has a shit ton more numbers that's the one game where you can just change 1 number and it doesnt change a whole lot

[junior needle]

Things get updates, but with ggg it's often very slowly and not enough. Things get left in the dumpster for a long time. Melee being weak is another critical game design problem.

[torn root]

seismic trap numbers could go from 50 to 12

and it probably was still used for 5 more months

[junior needle]

Where the best melee skills are ones that have some kind of absurd mechanic or are not really melee, like lightning strike

[torn root]

thats been gutted liek 6 different times

and only comes back because of new support

[junior needle]

LS isn't even on the list

Now it's boneshatter

[torn root]

so they release new items that break old things then have to touch it in a meaningful way

in PoE you cant just touch the skill ima be honest

the support gems and modifyers gotta get touched

the items too

[junior needle]

It's a complex game, but another issue is that a certain subset of skills are allowed to function well with vastly less currency, and others need a fuckload to not feel like shit.

[torn root]

in fatshark you only have weapon base numbers and skill tree modifyers

and auras

so 3 things

[quick steeple]

also skilltrees arent a commitment

[torn root]

^

that too!

[quick steeple]

thats their one weakness in multiple ways

[junior needle]

That reminds me, fatshark has dragged its feet with balance like it has cement shoes

[quick steeple]

changes are more gavitous / higher barrier to entry

[torn root]

in GGG, you have base skill, support gems, modifyers on base gem, modifyers on support gem, player equipments, potions, map modifyers

and i could probably like like 11 more things

attrivutes

league effects

etc.

[tall torrent]

I still feel the current state is the best balance DT has had yet

[torn root]

so 1 skill changes in PoE legit is a fuck ton more than in fastshark

and im not even asking them to work faster

[junior needle]

It undoubtedly is, but that was a very low bar previously.

[tall torrent]

Could be better for sure but it’s not that bad rn

[junior needle]

I'm criticizing them for how long it took them to do utterly simple shit like make numbers on a bunch of guns not absolute dogshit

[tall torrent]

At least like 80-85% of the weapons is playable now with decently synergistic builds

[torn root]

all i want is the loot system changed right now, and for ppl to stop acting like some of the shit we got isn't leagues apart from the rest

[quick steeple]

(and make smoke nades choke area DOT 😉 )

[torn root]

it would feel less worse if we got lotot and blessings a bit easier so they could have time to make meaningful changes

while a weapon is shit make it easier to get a diff weapon that isnt currently

[tall torrent]

Yk wat
I think weapons & gear should just be shared between classes like how currency now is

[torn root]

if its the same weapon that another class has access to

yes

[quick steeple]

id even be fine with a massive diamantine sink to "swap" a lock to another perk or something

[torn root]

i called that out when they made the change

[tall torrent]

Just mark the class-exclusive stuff with “veteran only” or “psyker only”

[torn root]

ngl!

if smoke nades made enemies choke for cc

i would legit take them over shredders

100% of the time

not even give them damage

[quick steeple]

even if they just choked out fire/pox/corruptionsmoke etc denial id be all over it

[tall torrent]

Nah more like 50% cuz double frag bleed is still there

[torn root]

probably would be broken tho

[torn root]

I value CC heavy in a bunch of arpg, or horde games

even in drg

[tall torrent]

CC is good

[quick steeple]

high skill cap yes, avg def not

[tall torrent]

But it’s like the smite argument

[torn root]

smite unhealthy

[tall torrent]

A bit different from smite but still

[torn root]

thats why i think smoke cc might be problematic

[tall torrent]

I would much rather just have

Smokes regen your toughness while you’re inside it

[torn root]

but having an ability dedicated to lockdown also isnt bad

im 50/50 with smite im gunna be honest

[quick steeple]

vets have enough regen options

[torn root]

like i dont ever seeing a smite psyker solo

so it probably isnt too crazy

[tall torrent]

Or make your move speed a little better inside smokes

[quick steeple]

i have it on 2 builds, maybe comes out 3 times in a mission for the knockdown burst but thats it

more needed the perk pathing lol

[tall torrent]

Smite is bad 90% the time because you could just use melee or staff/gun to kill stuff and be a 4th dmg dealer
Smite is literal godsend 10% the time when things have gone FUBAR and you need to regain & regroup

It’s a tool

[torn root]

its okayish then

i know ppl dont like it because its boring

[tacit sonnet]

smite is fine

[torn root]

or sometimes it makes the game feel too easy

but so does VoC

[tacit sonnet]

It's just not for everyone

[torn root]

i legit dont see smite enough for me to see what the problem really is

[tall torrent]

It’s kind of like how krak usually is not as valuable as frag but there are some moments where you can spam kraks to blast things to kingdom come

[torn root]

and if its a problem maybe it only needs a slap on the wrist?

[quick steeple]

high level tbf its easier to just kill things 95% of the time when you have positioning and not crutching smite

[tall torrent]

The problem is that some people exclusively use smite instead of dealing damage and think they’re heavily contributing to the team while dealing a meagre <125 dps to hold poxwalkers still

[quick steeple]

new players/lower level it discourages

[torn root]

aye tbf

smiting for your team is nice

its supportive

and in this game there are really ppl not keen on doing damage

[tacit sonnet]

At the same time high level smite is much better because people see smited bulwark, they kill it and not make you afk smite it for 1 minute until you decide enough is enough and kill it yourself

[torn root]

and just going support

play with the lfg ppl

so many just want to support

and then other ppl in the community just want to see big numbers on scoreboard

so its a win, no?

[tall torrent]

Smiting for your team is really good in the FUBAR scenarios like
You’re getting pressed by bulwark formations or crusher packs
There’re bombers chugging nades around u and ragers are swarming in
You’re getting pinned by snipers and shotgunners

[fickle agate]

As someone who mainly plays Psyker it physically pains me to see Smite/Shield Psykers not using their weapons or staff, the support tools only work if you're also actually doing something

[torn root]

well until you probably need the damage maybe]

[tall torrent]

Outside of these scenarios, smite is generally not that great

[fickle agate]

Otherwise it's just delaying things and a floodgate of mobs breaks

[quick steeple]

so many just want to support cant aim
ftfy

[tacit sonnet]

Smiting crowds of enemies is always great if you actually release your button making all enemies take a ton of stagger and then go help kill

[tall torrent]

Well some people are whiny and think “teammate not doing enough dmg = bad”

[woven turret]

Enabling your team to do damage is good 🥰

[torn root]

low key toxic ngl

im okay wiht ppl not doing damage if they are CC'ing

its not just about shooting and cleaving and killing

even if that IS heresy on 40K

[tall torrent]

I think playing support role play is fine but there should be a limit on how far that role play should go

At least we don’t have toxic Valorant e-daters coming in with “support mommy smite psyker” and “her sharpshooter marksman focus exe stance veteran dps king”

[torn root]

lmao

[quick steeple]

oh theyre here, just not very many lol

[tiny summit]

I think smiting a crowd is always kinda just good as long as the smite psyker isnt actively lagging behind.

[torn root]

im sorry

i ran into a psyker with the most seductive voice ever

[tiny summit]

they aren't actively harming anything, they are just CCing

[torn root]

can you help me with these guys im smiting them

YESS MOMMY~!

lmao

[quick steeple]

[torn root]

its a friend dw

[woven turret]

The only reason I abandoned smite was because I realized it was cc and I can't always trust randos to help me out lolol

[torn root]

but still let support players do their thing

just TRY to give input?

[woven turret]

Zel support is fun

[tall torrent]

There’s one added benefit of smite which is that it has the best pathing in Psyker’s tree and that is huge

[woven turret]

HOLY POWER

[torn root]

most ppl i feel like build to deal mad damage anyway so supports ego boost them

[torn root]

incentivized to cosplay daddy palp

[fickle agate]

Venting Shriek with Soulblaze on smite just feels too good for me to ever go full support lol

[tall torrent]

It’s just that psyker has some very strong dmg builds rn and purely smiting takes a huge chunk off of that “supposed to be there” dps

Scrier’s gaze can do stupid damage

Not to mention

[woven turret]

Flamethrower with brain kaboom has been fun

[tall torrent]

You can literally do more or less the same “crowd control” thing with purgatus staff

And actually burn things to death

[woven turret]

lotta hits to potentially proc the brain boom

[torn root]

they probably dont know about that yet

im gunna continue my daily message of

98% of the community is new

lmao

[fickle agate]

LMB Stagger on Purg makes almost every non crusher enemy cry

[torn root]

lets be nice

and teach em

[tall torrent]

The only enemies I think purgatus can’t stagger (or as easily) are Ogryns

[torn root]

already got scoreboard warriors bringing the mood down

[tall torrent]

Exactly ^

[fickle agate]

Trauma also offers insane crowd control and that is the very first staff you get to fuck with though Blazing Spirits is sadly a blessing you gotta find

[torn root]

I love seeing trauma staff

lmao

like actually

[tall torrent]

I feel like
The only justifiable scenario where you should be ready to smite all the time
Is if you have 2 helbore1/2 veterans on your team who actually know what they’re doing and they’re rapid killing most things with bayonet or gun

However, that almost never happens

You’ll almost never run into more than 1 helbore veteran in a lobby who knows what he’s doing

[torn root]

My Columnus stands at the ready

[fickle agate]

I mean Trauma is the meta right now along with the Voidstrike, all of the Psyker staff are in a decent enough place right now though

[torn root]

is it?

[terse idol]

Even purge?

[torn root]

i see fire staff the most

[terse idol]

Hmm

[tall torrent]

Fire staff I see a lot but I think it’s because that’s the most straightforward one

[fickle agate]

Purge can see decent use yee

[tall torrent]

And also, who wouldn’t want a portable flamethrower with infinite ammo

[torn root]

^

[terse idol]

I guess so

[fickle agate]

Surge was bugged to hell post skill tree update though going from broken to awful to good at complete random

[terse idol]

Along with soulbuen talents

[quick steeple]

surge is eh imo

[fickle agate]

Because of a "visual change"

[quick steeple]

rest are chillin

[rugged portal]

I actually really like the Surge staff right now.

[tacit sonnet]

Right now surge is prob the worst staff.

[fickle agate]

I did my Twins clear with the Surge staff so it's fine nough I suppose

[rugged portal]

Surge feels like a good middle of the road weapon that is pretty foolproof in its usage. You just aim vaguely at elites or gunners and you do alright.

[quick steeple]

it really just needs a blessing or 2 that better synergize with it

[junior grail]

Surge Staff with the Soulblaze blessing?

[stable socket]

I wonder if the double shot on crit blessing would be good on surge cuz of the innate crit chance

[quick steeple]

god forbid surge is given.... surge

[junior grail]

Might be like Trauma affecting lmb only

[stable socket]

Oof

[fickle agate]

Surge LMB would be cracked but it gets none of the blessings for it

[quick steeple]

ya depends if lightning rmb is coded as a projectile or not

[rugged portal]

Warp Flurry is good on Surge. It already charges fast so you can just spam it pretty effectively.

[tacit sonnet]

Giving this kind of blessing to surge would literally be a nerf, +1 trash blessing in the pool you might get instead of something good

[junior grail]

All FS need to do for Surge on Trauma and maybe Surge staff in the future is, increased aoe on crit and chains to more enemies on crit respectively

[quick steeple]

the assumption with an add like that is obviously rmb works too

[tacit sonnet]

if rmb works it would make surge really great

[quick steeple]

or a variant that does+1-2-x chained hit / increased chain dmg something to that effect

on crit

[junior grail]

I propose Surge Staff being reworked to firing Lightning Bolts, give Smite the Palpatine treatment

[quick steeple]

thats what it does now, its not a channel

[junior grail]

Visually the same though

[umbral scaffold]

Sometimes I wonder how hopelessly bad people are playing when they tell me the 15 added seconds from the revive shout cripples the team

It reminds me of survivalist

[junior grail]

At least from what i can see

[quick steeple]

...its lightning, you cant see it move with ya eyes lol

[umbral scaffold]

People talk like they always play with someone that has it and I genuinely wonder what happens to their synapses when they look at the player list and there is not a veteran

[quick steeple]

its a hitscan basically with animation

[torn root]

cripples the team is a crazy accusation

[umbral scaffold]

It also reminds me of the "it's the gun psyker's fault my ammo is low" like Fatshark obviously balanced the game around there always being a staff psyker present

[torn root]

can they not play?

yikes

[junior grail]

I'm making my case like Zealots Immolation Grenade, its a fire bomb like the Bomber YET has a different visual representation

Thats how I want Surge staff and Smite to be

[umbral scaffold]

I find that these people always make their arguments based on an excessively deterministic view of the game

[quick steeple]

imo, can get way more benefit and similar result from Leave No One Behind for that 1 pt

[umbral scaffold]

Like when people tell me they can do VOC back to back or something with tactical awareness and not taking the revive modifier

[quick steeple]

BLACK LIGHTNING

[torn root]

WELCOME to the internet

lmao

[umbral scaffold]

I don't even know where they're so knee deep in shit that they actually are needing to do VOC back to back

[torn root]

you have preachers everywhere

[umbral scaffold]

And that somehow those 15 seconds are the defining moment people will die

[junior grail]

Copyright issues from comic industry lol

But I like where youre going with that

[torn root]

i am ONE of the MANY

[quick steeple]

knee deep on the other side of the map lol

[umbral scaffold]

Because apparently they run under the assumption people will get annihilated without VOC's buff

[torn root]

You AREN'T using META?!

why are you PLAYING?!

[umbral scaffold]

I have to hold myself not to ask "are you joking or just genuinely stupid?"

[torn root]

I'M VET, dont touch my ammo

go do the plapatine thingy

[quick steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/static-shock-lightning-gif-16585036

ok red then

[hardy ember]

Long as a veteran is running ammo. That’s all that matters

[umbral scaffold]

Like, I can't deny that yes, having the toughness regen more often is cool

[torn root]

my bad i am joking

[woven turret]

Me making the most anti meta build possible to create drama in the dropship

[umbral scaffold]

But I don't do quickplay expecting someone to always be refilling my toughness

[torn root]

BUT IM THE MAIN CHARACTER HOW COULD YOU NOT?

[umbral scaffold]

It's one of the worst things possible and it's basically people creating an excuse to blame others when they fail

[torn root]

all im saying

[junior grail]

Will me jumping into an auric pub with recon trigger some people then? Hahaha

[torn root]

there are 3 scapegoats in each run

[quick steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/who-did-it-who-not-me-not-it-he-did-it-gif-12760860

[torn root]

its never my fault

lmao

sometimes in League you get 4 scapegoats

[umbral scaffold]

I vaguely remember this one time weeks or months ago where some dude was miffed about me not using purgatus and even lobbed the hurr durr "this wouldn't have happened with purgatus" comment before the game over screen

[woven turret]

Me losing my 4th match in a row without changing any part of my strategy because it's everyone else's fault my plans don't work

[junior grail]

League player??

[woven turret]

League 🤢

[quick steeple]

(quit before you have a hernia)

[umbral scaffold]

Like this guy just joined a quickplay banking on 1) finding a psyker that wasn't him because he wasn't playing psyker, and 2) that psyker having purgatus

[woven turret]

Bullying is wrong unless the victim plays League

[torn root]

I dont as much play as logging on to justify the ungodly amount of hours and money i put into it in my past

[umbral scaffold]

and dare I fucking 3) having a decent purgatus too

[torn root]

havent been on in like 2 months tho

[junior grail]

Ah, so like Darktide? Oops...

[torn root]

OY i rememebr a quote by Ninja

[umbral scaffold]

People get into their heads that the game is played the exact way they want, they make this whole-ass mastermind plan that goes perfectly right in their head and then it's everyone else's fault when it doesn't go as expected

[torn root]

If you aren't playing games seriously then ---

im not trying to get kicked

[umbral scaffold]

Today I was doing uhhh

[torn root]

so lets just say make sure to play META

because it helps ppls mentals

[woven turret]

I play games as unseriously as possible

[torn root]

not because you wan't to play and try something 🙂

[umbral scaffold]

I think it's Excise Vault, the one with the safe doors in a circular two-floor arena with the tubes in the middle that you have to put 3 containers in

[torn root]

Ninja wouldn't liek that sir

[woven turret]

I don't know who that is

[torn root]

god bless your soul

[woven turret]

They have no power over me

[umbral scaffold]

And I think for like 1/3 of the match I was playing a psyker with dueling sword and revolver, relying basically on a single toughness regen talent

[junior grail]

I call that the butthole mission. Cause the image in mission select looks like one

[umbral scaffold]

And I went there without taking a single dent to my health

Not an ounce of health damage

A dog jumped on me when we reached that little area with the two tunnels

It completely ate me because the psyker who had a clear line of sight to me couldn't stop backpedaling and firing bodyshots on whatever they were fighting

And by God, did I mash that ping button on the dog

[torn root]

okay 1 sec

so i been doing studies on pl in the community

and tested it on friedns and my gf

[umbral scaffold]

And I was genuinely waiting for the "but you were 20 meters away from the team, it's your fault"

[torn root]

PPL DO NOT CARE ABOUT PINGS

or sometimes they dont notice

[junior grail]

Surprised your guy didn't just push off the dog, walk through the hordes and gave that psyker a slap

[torn root]

expect nothing from anyone unless you are straddled to their asses all game

[umbral scaffold]

That's the thing, right

There was literally

Nothing

[torn root]

i cant stress it enough the lfg is just a better time playing DT

[umbral scaffold]

Between us

[quick steeple]

i blame the LMB ping binders..... theres a special place for people that degenrate

[junior grail]

There's a chance they've got a mod that silences them

[umbral scaffold]

They were fighting something in the left tunnel

I was on the right tunnel and got pounced

[torn root]

why?!

[umbral scaffold]

They could see me

I could see them

There was nothing but air between us

[torn root]

so now they are both blind AND deaf nice

[umbral scaffold]

The guy had so much space to load a single shot in that revolver and bodyshot the dog

[quick steeple]

found the ogryn

[umbral scaffold]

He did literally nothing

[junior grail]

But yea i have friends where I ping a Trapper behind them and tell them in VC

They replied WHERE?

[strange sparrow]

I will always be left mouse pinger for focus target

[quick steeple]

that makes it useless...

[torn root]

yikes man

[umbral scaffold]

I think this is the first time in months I actually took a complaint to the chat and was "that guy"

[junior grail]

Not much different than most pub players haha

[umbral scaffold]

Because that thing just tilted me so fucking much at the time

[strange sparrow]

I don’t need 5 stacks on crusher

[torn root]

but even ppl who spam ping

[umbral scaffold]

I don't like talking shit to people because sometimes they don't notice or are in a really shitty situation to try for a rescue

[strange sparrow]

Because it’s a Hellbore lasgun

[torn root]

its not annoying at least to me

[strange sparrow]

It shred stuff so

[torn root]

i guess having information is annoying

[buoyant axle]

whats a good choice for slower firing , higher damage rifle. i like to pick my shots

[umbral scaffold]

But that thing was just so unbelievably easy

[junior grail]

Its sad to see Vets with poor area awareness who stand still while shooting

[strange sparrow]

Vraks headhunter

[quick steeple]

the stacks arent for the direct dmg on elites... its the benefit return

[buoyant axle]

thx

[torn root]

which is the damage lmao

[strange sparrow]

Uhh

[umbral scaffold]

Some people cross the threshold for being an actual threat to you and the team

[torn root]

even at 1 stack focus target is good

[stable socket]

everytime someone doesn't notice me getting rekt i tell myself that something distracting probably happened on their end, like their mom came into the room and needed to talk to them

[junior grail]

Infantry Lasgun is a decent choice too

[torn root]

ppl just dont notice

[stable socket]

it makes me feel slightly better even if it probably isn't true...

[terse idol]

Oh the MXII

[strange sparrow]

I only need one stack to hit breakpoint to one shot kill stuff

[terse idol]

although

[umbral scaffold]

And specially on auric damnation I don't want people who will literally ignore the easiest save in the history of this game

[terse idol]

If you want to get into the nitty gritty, the Ia

Is the same

But does like 30 less damage fires faster

[umbral scaffold]

It also feels really shitty because I pour my heart and soul on saving people from all sorts of shit