veteran-class

[crisp rapids]

why the fuck is it lower?

:XD:

wtf is going on scoreboard

[torn root]

excess damage?

[crisp rapids]

excess dmg doesnt count

its already not counted.

like, your total dmg is excess + actuall dmg dealt

i think

[torn root]

got nothing then tbh, might be a bug or error?

[crisp rapids]

yeah lmao

[civic knot]

but like... i can change the surgical and flak dmg on the 380 boltgun. Is unyielding really that important?

[torn root]

nah excess is usually nest to regular damage

the number right of it

[torn root]

its the only perk that changes how fast you deal with bulwarks, reapers and monsters

yes

and the other one has max damage stat

[brave musk]

left def

[civic knot]

do you want flak or maniac tho with that unyielding?

[torn root]

no

[civic knot]

cara?

[tall torrent]

My bolter already has PF4 locked and I’m looking for surgical 4 on it, currently running shattering impact 4

[torn root]

aim at a flak dude see how fast he dies

lmao

[civic knot]

ok then, cara?

[torn root]

carapace to lower shots needed to kill crushers

[civic knot]

cant pick that tho so imma have to go maniac

[torn root]

the 368 also had max reload speed

[wanton dawn]

Yeah... one day ill bother look at the code of those mods calculation. I dont really care that much though

[torn root]

marginal amount tho

[civic knot]

eh 3% reload speed vs 0.17 more sprint speed

imma go with 380 one i think

[brave musk]

probably gonna change the flak into unyielding, will it hit breakpoints without it?

[crisp rapids]

i was playing a dogshit stealth vet build

only reason i even dealt dmg was the plasmagun

i just dont get the playstyle of stealth vet

its like exec stance, but no assitance to find targets

and a lot more meele

[patent swift]

Mobility and Collat are the dump stats on boltguns?

[torn root]

unyielding reduces the shots you need for reapers and bulwarks, and obviously monsters so yeah

[hallow drift]

Knife zealot, veteran edition

[brave musk]

rescue and trash ranged melee-ing for the most time for me

[wanton dawn]

It is usually "pretend to be good enough to not run voc. Also voc is meta trash"

[crisp rapids]

i dont run voc cause i like exec stance

[torn root]

yes

[brave musk]

alrighty, thanks a lot for the tips!

[crisp rapids]

anmything to make my agrip mk8 do dmg

even more

voc is great

[torn root]

wait

[crisp rapids]

is till dont get stealth

[brave musk]

what about smoke gren vet

[civic knot]

and could u send me the talent tree for this build? @torn root

[crisp rapids]

i am running smoke grenades

i just almost never use them

plasma gun solves anyhting

[torn root]

what build?

[patent swift]

Wish me luck ppl

[civic knot]

the boltgun one

[wanton dawn]

I dont like exec stance at all. I dont like weakspot reliance

[brave musk]

yo how didcha use em?

[brave musk]

good luck on the omnissiah

[tiny summit]

Exe good. Exe 4 lyfe.

[torn root]

im not the one using it atm, it dosen't need s skill tree lmao we're talking about what's good on it

[civic knot]

can invis work at all?

[torn root]

bolter dump is just mobility imma say that

i dont like dumping in 2 stats

and you dont need to dodge with that clunky ass gun

[wanton dawn]

Sure it can. But for standard play voc is usually just better

[torn root]

shoot put it away ge tbreathing room to reload

[wanton dawn]

Especially in pubs

[brave musk]

its fun seeing the ai freak out, get closer to you and forget to do their thing in the smoke but i cant figure out a situation to play them in

[tiny summit]

Use invis if you just think it's funny to go invis behind the shotgunner party to mag dump from behind

[crisp rapids]

its nopt weakspot

it also inscreases dmg by 25%

on any ranged options

its pretty nice

[torn root]

i can only recommend some talents: Onslaught,Bring it Down, and Superiority Complex [don't really need this one]

[civic knot]

onslaught isnt good right? this thing fires slow

[crisp rapids]

i run it on a brauto, getting some headshots here n there

[civic knot]

thats for autoguns only, no?

[crisp rapids]

but once splitter and frenzy stacks up

it goes nuts

[wanton dawn]

It is half of its bonus though.

[torn root]

bolter fires slow?!?!

[crisp rapids]

its plenty

for a gun like that

[civic knot]

idk man and it only has 15 bullets

you tell me

[crisp rapids]

also the bonus for the brauto is actually most just the ranged dmg

[torn root]

do you only use the ads for bolter?

[crisp rapids]

as it has very little weakspot mutiplier

[torn root]

it has 2 fireing modes lmao

[crisp rapids]

fire frenzy and splitter also work weirdly with tis numbers

[torn root]

hip fire is automatic with a minimum fire of 2 shots, ads is semi auto

[wanton dawn]

I just dont like raw dps buff over the sheer utility of voc

[crisp rapids]

100% understandable

it is a negative

once stackked i could be further than "closerange" is and keep the high dmg

[torn root]

15 bullets of pure destruction

[crisp rapids]

bodyshotting flaks for loads of dmg

exec + stacked deathsplitter can kill maulers is less than a second

[tiny summit]

Mag dump. It's what the bolter is for

[torn root]

Bolter is the pump and dump dopamine machine of the game

then the post-dump clarity kicks in when you have to reload

[crisp rapids]

bolter is fun, sadly not very useable

sure u kill something

[civic knot]

im running volley adept also because its gyad damn necessary for bolter imo

[wanton dawn]

The only exec user i remember in auric was a good bolter vet

[crisp rapids]

but then reload :XD:

[civic knot]

hence my recent comment hehe

[torn root]

exec stand on bolters is crazy tho

ngl

[tiny summit]

You'll see me in auric with exe

[crisp rapids]

its weakpost multiplier isnt great either

tho.

[torn root]

for the 5 seconds you get to shoot

[crisp rapids]

on the bolter

u also dont get alot from it

well it is

nvm

[wanton dawn]

I dont see you

[crisp rapids]

i was confuser

[torn root]

gotta carry a good melee weapon that can deal with everything

[crisp rapids]

it its crit + weakspot that is minimal

[torn root]

becuase odds of you geting that reload straight after the dumpy is low

gotta reload it in stages

[crisp rapids]

u can basically either "crit" or weakspot

with it

[civic knot]

yuck

i need the 30% faster reload

anything else is heresy

[wanton dawn]

Also i went through the effort of adding a timer to the scoreboard_history, show me timer

[torn root]

and +30% is still painfully slow

[tiny summit]

Dunno. It wasn't long though. Kinda standard

[wanton dawn]

Seems like at very least 35min+ to me

[patent swift]

1 or 2 ?

[tiny summit]

MF camo for that 10% reload

[civic knot]

This?

[torn root]

I would take 2

[crisp rapids]

briked?

[torn root]

shattering impact is 100% neccesary for me

[torn root]

you cans swap vanguard and tactical reload for Killzone and maybe Rending

[full spindle]

hey i have a question about the boltgun if i can ask

[torn root]

bro i wish rending strikes was good

[tiny summit]

Nah can replace TB with dumdum and crit chance with another dmg like flak or maniac

[torn root]

don't touch that talent honestly

[civic knot]

tactical reload is really nice tho

[torn root]

leaving ammo in you're bolter is heresy

[crisp rapids]

works?

[tiny summit]

Tactical reload requires me NOT mag dumping a bolter. Therefore unusable

[torn root]

when you pull that trigger empty that shit before reloading

lmao

[crisp rapids]

raking fire good?

i thought it was garbdo

[tiny summit]

Yes

[crisp rapids]

isnt fire frenzy better?

[torn root]

im not shooting 2-3 times and touching that reload button

[crisp rapids]

except boss killing i dont see myself shotting enemies in the back

shooting*

[torn root]

and if i got 4shots left im dumpig it before reloading still

[tiny summit]

What's gonna work against the solo monstrosity? Raking fire or fire frenzy?

[torn root]

+20% is still a long ass reload

[trim steppe]

its good. more situational but good. stealth builds love it. also the next time you meet a beast of nurgle it will melt, especially with unyielding damage on top

[crisp rapids]

ig raking

[wanton dawn]

On this discord i have 3 ppl i have played with that i have seen outdamage me convincingly: crabs, agentofchaos and kejetok. Though tbf i remember cuz i found them randomly in pubs

[crisp rapids]

but for most of the game

[tiny summit]

You haven't experienced shooting a BoN in the back with raking fire

[crisp rapids]

i have with bolter

and some other shit

before the talents

[wanton dawn]

Also some ogryns with kickback and assail psyker almost everything in p12

[crisp rapids]

i wont be able ot headshots ogryns or will i?

[torn root]

actually if you feel better with the reload you can also just try to replace something with Volley adept

[crisp rapids]

i mean crushers

[torn root]

probably superiority complex

oh you have it

im blind

[crisp rapids]

superiority is great

[tiny summit]

Columnus is just so good that it's dumdum plus whatever and its fine. I like raking fire because it's so much more significant when it does apply

[torn root]

I would still take focus target in this situation

not sure why ppl don't like that keystone

[civic knot]

thats what im doing

and im trying a version of this without krak nades

thats just overkill single target tbh

[inner imp]

bolter need buff

[civic knot]

so rather go shredders

[torn root]

bolter needs more ready speed and reload speed

[tiny summit]

I guess this is what Id use with bolter mag dumping if you want onslaught

[torn root]

I liked Henkz tree for it ngl

50% reload is kinda the nuts right there

[crisp rapids]

huh, is this thing still strong or fucked?

[trim steppe]

autopistol is lackluster in this patch

save it for a buff

[crisp rapids]

but usable no?

seemed fine on psykarnium

[tiny summit]

Usable

[civic knot]

its only 15% more reload speed tho so imma go without it

[crisp rapids]

might be good to runaround

[civic knot]

this is what i ended up with:

[crisp rapids]

like exec stance pu

and go ham

[tiny summit]

It's just...columnus and agri brautos exist with how they are

[crisp rapids]

agrip auto is op

as fuck

the pierce

[civic knot]

dunno if i should run confirmed kill tho...

[crisp rapids]

it has is insane

[torn root]

yes

[crisp rapids]

confirmed + exhilerating

is pretty good

[torn root]

run it lmao

[civic knot]

wait

i meant

get back in the fight

sry im tired

[tiny summit]

Don't get toughness broken silly

Imma run MF bolter and suffer

[trim steppe]

get back in the fight is a good pick just cuz the other talent is balls

[torn root]

I use to use get back in the fight, its not really worht getting over anything tho

[tiny summit]

Nah

[trim steppe]

you're NEVER 8m from enemies when you want toughness back

[civic knot]

they both balls

[slate sleet]

i hope the machine spirit is generous today

[civic knot]

is determined really good to have on your bolter? @torn root

[iron marten]

What kind of black magic you expecting this to do

[civic knot]

im considering maybe tryna run it

idk tho

[inner imp]

suppression is aids i always take determined on ranged builds

[torn root]

i would use it over superiortiy complex ngl

[civic knot]

huh

[torn root]

you can combat snipers in the back of the map while getting shot at

[civic knot]

15% tho 🥹 👉 👈

[torn root]

useful when you need one dead, bolter is good at that I can say

[serene sage]

if you are intending to ADS in the game, take Determined

it's a necessity

[tall torrent]

Determined is basically mandatory for bolter

[torn root]

this

[iron marten]

The bolter evangelist is here

[civic knot]

maybe remove precision strikes?

[torn root]

and that

[tall torrent]

The only guns that get zero bonus from determined are plasma and helbore lasguns

[serene sage]

Bolter without Determine is the first path for you to start posting rant threads on Reddit

about how bad the Bolter is

[civic knot]

lol

[torn root]

if you want, percision strikes destroys monsters tho

[civic knot]

ah alr

ill keep

sadge

i wanted 15% more dmg

but like

hmmm

[serene sage]

is this the Bolter build?

[tall torrent]

Exe stance apparently also gives you suppression immunity while you’re in it, but bolter kind of struggles keeping it running all the time

[serene sage]

I don't think you need Onslaught?

[civic knot]

ye

[torn root]

i think at 80% the 15% from Superiority complext doesnt change the kill times much

[tiny summit]

I have it up a lot of times. Killzone and it are actually good

[serene sage]

skip onslaught, take both SupCom and Determined

[torn root]

maybe at the correct distance

[civic knot]

apparently its really good for bolter according to Kuro

[torn root]

maybe

[tall torrent]

With bolter you basically don’t need to go bottom right

[serene sage]

SupCom helps alot

[tall torrent]

Take superiority complex and stam regen delay reduction

[civic knot]

have u compared differances?

[crisp rapids]

agrip mk1 does pierce trough enemies

and so does the columnus

[tall torrent]

Onslaught really does not help bolter enough

[torn root]

onslaught while unloading with shattering impact

[crisp rapids]

was this always a thing:?

the graia cant do shit

but the aomngus at elast can hit 2 horde enemies at once

[civic knot]

have u tested difference?

[serene sage]

the mag is tiny though 😔

[civic knot]

is this only on 1 target too?

[tall torrent]

Onslaught is like
Exclusively relevant for IAGs

[serene sage]

you kill everything except crushers in 3 shots

well mutants too

but that's 90% of enemies in the game

[torn root]

pretty sure that onslaught is the only way you can 1 mag a beast of nurgle no?

[civic knot]

who cares about 1 magging

[torn root]

same for plague ogryn

[serene sage]

why are we one magging boss

[civic knot]

its just circle jerking hahah

[torn root]

THATS THE POINT INT HE GUN

[serene sage]

I just two mag them

[tall torrent]

I don’t think building around “one mag a BoN” is the best way to go around a marksman style weapon

[torn root]

Why the FUCK would i take bolter over any other gun like the mk5 if im not one magging a monster

[civic knot]

marksman? wtf

[tiny summit]

Imma run this with bolter this week. Probably gonna be ass

[iron marten]

I guess every round counts cause bolter ammo eco is terrible, but one magging a boss is pretty funny

[serene sage]

cause it's fun?

why take the slug shotgun ever

[civic knot]

this tbh

[serene sage]

when it's just a worse revolver

[tall torrent]

Yea bolter is a headshot focused sniper style gun rn

[torn root]

then if you care about marksman gameplay DONT use the bolter

it not really for that

[serene sage]

[civic knot]

[serene sage]

idk what to tell you man

[torn root]

you have other guns that don't have such a slow reload speed and cleaner gameplay

[serene sage]

there are certain stereotypes people put into guns

[torn root]

literally

[slate sleet]

BEHOLD

[serene sage]

that can't be unlearned I guess

[tall torrent]

Bolter mag dump playstyle is not it anymore

[trim steppe]

It is glorious

[civic knot]

dont matter if its "it" its super duper fun

[torn root]

bolter in general is not IT anymore that's why you don't see it a lot

[trim steppe]

You couldn't find T1 Thunderstrike I guess?

[serene sage]

Bolter has 2 styles

ADS and Hipfire

[torn root]

you can sniper with it but there are better options

[tall torrent]

It’s fun for sure
Onslaught takes 16 stacks for maximum effect
Bolter shoots 15 rounds before reloading
I’ll let you think about that real quick

[slate sleet]

maximum trauma

[torn root]

that's why you dont see ppl asking for sniping buolds with it

[iron marten]

Wtf, Ash Arknights CG?!!

[torn root]

you were advocating for focus target the other day

[serene sage]

because they don't know what they are doing

we are telling you the "hidden" tech here

[torn root]

not needing the maximum benefit of everything

[serene sage]

if you don't want to listen then play the bolter one mag the way you want

not a problem

[torn root]

oy im not saying that you can't btw

notice i never said either of you are wrong

[tall torrent]

Here’s the thing right

Brittleness scales armor modifier (the exact same way as rending) off your base damage

Bolter does not have bad unyielding scaling

[torn root]

but why not just you know, use a generally better choice?

[inner imp]

agripina braced/infantry autogun is better than bolter

sadge

[serene sage]

no you just express a lot of skepticism and implications that DMR Bolter are not optimal

which it might actually be

one magging bosses builds are dumb

[torn root]

might actually be and is not

[slate sleet]

anything is better if you compare it to a bolter

[torn root]

are worlds apart

lmao

[serene sage]

congrats on being useful 7% of the game

[torn root]

so unless it is i would never state it like that

thus i challenge because unless it is its not worth me recommending

[serene sage]

okay you and me, wanna hop on a game, you run your boss killer, I run my dmr

see who is more useful

[tall torrent]

We take shattering impact basically exclusively for crushers because that specifically helps mag dump vs them better

[torn root]

i wont speak out against it too much but im 100% not recommending

[tall torrent]

Every other enemy type

[inner imp]

stalker bolter gameplay is fine

[tall torrent]

Shattering impact doesn’t do enough

[serene sage]

I literally have 400 hours on the gun

I would

[civic knot]

Tweaked the talent tree a bit, in case u cant see im running 8 stacks of middle tree

[inner imp]

i just dont feel like putting in the effort to make it usable

[slate sleet]

krak grenades delete bosses

you dont need a boss deleting weapon

[tall torrent]

You don’t need both reload talents

[slate sleet]

they also delete ogryns of all kinds and you get a free grenade every minute + boxes

[civic knot]

Yes.

Yes.

I.

Do.

[torn root]

so if i had more and recommended against it what would be the argument there?

[civic knot]

[torn root]

not gunna get into that

[slate sleet]

400 hours of cringe

[civic knot]

WARNING! EXTREME LEVELS OF HERESY DETECTED!

[torn root]

you have 400 hours and you are gunna sit here and say there is no better option for that play style other than the bolter?

[tall torrent]

No you really don’t

Change based on your needs

[serene sage]

my dude

[tall torrent]

That 10% melee node is very strong and helps your melee a lot

[slate sleet]

no redirect fire wtf

[tall torrent]

Can’t afford

[slate sleet]

lol

[serene sage]

i had to quit the game im playing because what you are sayuing is so disenguinous

[slate sleet]

why are you going 1 node all the way left

[serene sage]

our friend asked for a BOLTER build

[slate sleet]

supresssion immunity as well who cares

[serene sage]

the bolter is the prereq

[slate sleet]

just go behind cover

[tall torrent]

Stamina regen delay reduction is very strong
And bolter is basically unplayable without determined

[serene sage]

so for BOLTER builds (which implues that you have to use the BOLTER)

[torn root]

chat has already agreed that bolter isnt that good atm before you guys joined btw, convo started because of questions on recommended playstyles and what we use it for

[serene sage]

which playstyle would do more

one maggging the 2 bosses that spawns in the gaem

[tall torrent]

Bolter is decent
It’s not bad by any means
The issue with bolter is that it takes a ton of point investments to make it feel good

[serene sage]

or everything in the game

and two magging bosses

[slate sleet]

i tested 2xstam regen delay nodes with deadeye and the difference is insanely minimal

[torn root]

you can literally do both

just off of reload speed supression immunity

[serene sage]

yeah, and I am reccommending the DMR style for the gun, having time to test both the one mag meme and the style that I use

[torn root]

and still have points to dump more damage

[tall torrent]

I don’t use them for deadshot
They help a lot in tanking aggro and getting the most of stamina between dodges & slides

[serene sage]

okay fine whatever, im dropping it

i can't convince you

you won't me

no point

im back to playing

bye

[slate sleet]

you really dont need it but everyone has their pref i guess

[torn root]

yeah it was legit a pointless argument because on the tree posted what else ewould you even take

we told him to get supression immunity

there is no other damage for him to take either

[tall torrent]

That right side 20% tac reload is really not needed

[serene sage]

well it was the onslaught drop

which is redundant

[torn root]

if he can now snipe wit what he has why not just move towards also being able to one clip, there is no hinderance

[serene sage]

but if it floats your boat then whatever, i won't cry

[torn root]

They wanted it

not me

NOT ME

[serene sage]

pretty sure you need supcom for breakpoints

but yeah

[tall torrent]

I wonder what melee they’re running

[civic knot]

didnt want it, was just an experiment and im removing it

[torn root]

told them to run a good melee that can deal with everything in game just in case

[inner imp]

mk6 psword swish swish

[torn root]

because the reload on bolter is doggy, so he started modifying the skill tree

[slate sleet]

cringe sword and cringe bolter

[tall torrent]

Yea mk6 wants that 10% melee dmg node lol

[inner imp]

pretty much

[slate sleet]

small pp package

[inner imp]

been having fun with chainaxe and pre-vet keystone build

laspistol chainaxe

[torn root]

im 2 shotting ever elite /. special without that

[serene sage]

wtf are you on lol
why so antagonistic to people who are asking for help

[slate sleet]

i wish i could filter our minecraft zombies with cringe sword and cringe plasma out of my games

[tall torrent]

That 10% is for bruiser 1 taps

[torn root]

which enemy mybad

[slate sleet]

im not antagonising anyone

[torn root]

ragers?

[tall torrent]

Bruisers

The horde enemies that wear armor

[torn root]

i still kill them with 1 power swipe

[slate sleet]

if you want braindead easymode gameplay nobody is stopping you

[civic knot]

You are cringe and your unguarded mind is blind to the majesty and grace of the Adeptus Astartes RP build!

[torn root]

im using the weakspot thing tho

[tall torrent]

Could be 30% weakpoint giving that breakpoint

In that case I’d prob spend those 2 points into keystone modifier

[torn root]

the dudes that wear flak, i guess the melee talent lets you kill thru the armor?

[tall torrent]

Or get demo team and smth else nice

[serene sage]

lmao what are you running to gimp yourself then?

if you think bolter is so OP

[torn root]

bro is judging ppl o playstyles

why?

someone shit in your bed earlier?

[inner imp]

i prefer my braindead easy mode agripiss braced autogun cringesword build tbh.

[tall torrent]

Bolter is like one of the highest point investment guns for veteran rn lol

[inner imp]

turn brain off, pretend L4D2.

[tall torrent]

Takes way too many points to feel good to use

[civic knot]

Did this and got field improv cause imma' Adeptus Bro

[serene sage]

nah nah let him cook, i wanna hear his opnions for my own entertainment

[tall torrent]

Fair, have fun with the gun

[inner imp]

bro bolter is, let me spend 5 seconds to pull out, 5 seconds to readjust after every shot in ADS, 20 seconds to reload

[slate sleet]

i like using guns that need some semblence of effort

[umbral scaffold]

i shute brane off wen eqip irowil ok ty?

[serene sage]

clearly easy mode

[torn root]

this guy right?

[slate sleet]

bolter sucks never said its good

[torn root]

sucks might be hard

only thing that sucks on it is the reload and ready speed

[serene sage]

I was waiting for hot takes, this is so lukewarm

[umbral scaffold]

When I'm in a kill more than 2 crushers with a magazine and my opponent is the most popular gun in Warhammer 40K lore

[torn root]

the gun just exists tho

[serene sage]

you're not even a good troll 😔

[slate sleet]

it feels incredibly underwhelming to use, probably because the beta bolter is still fresh on my mind

[inner imp]

psword on other hand. true ez as long as u dont screw yourself while charging up

[tall torrent]

I tried it a while back, it has some good applications and is one of the highest reward precision 1 shot style weapons, but the point investment is ridiculous and I don’t yet have surgical 4

Will prob revisit when I get surgical 4 for it

[slate sleet]

dont have any hot takes i just think if you need cringe sword and cringe plasma to clear the hardest stuff in this game your pp is small

[tall torrent]

None of the other precision 1 shot weapons in vet’s arsenal (except plasma but that’s a different story) does what bolter does

[slate sleet]

vets best feature is you can take every gun and make it good

so why not use something fun

instead of the super deleter 5000

[torn root]

I kno ppl like slandering P.Sword but it's not brain dead

it really isnt

[slate sleet]

vraks 1 shot headhunter, mk12, all the hellbores?

[inner imp]

most of the time its backstep while charging into lights, or charge block attack on big things

i dont know any fancy tech

[slate sleet]

check out this angle tho

[torn root]

that s more effort than putting on a XIIIg and just swinging

or just swinging with an axe

[iron marten]

Think true brain dead melee is psword pre nerf lmao

[torn root]

or any other weapon

swinging with shovel, activating just to kill crushers

[tall torrent]

Vraks7
HB1
HB2
HB3
MG12
Revolver to an extent

They’re all good but bolter has additional benefits over them while still getting the same 1 taps

[torn root]

its not brain dead compared to just left clicking

[slate sleet]

i think the weapon customization mod is busted on it or something when i use optics it never hits where i want it to for 1 taps

[torn root]

literally swapped to using P.Sword yesterday and i miss my ChainSword now, i could just left click into waves but for P.Sword i have to kite and play an animation, avoid it being blocked from getting hit then i get 3 swings and have to do it again

[slate sleet]

takes too long to bring the gun under control to rapidly remove ranged chaff

[iron marten]

You should bring crosshair_remap so you can see where the sights actually lineup

[slate sleet]

i dont know if its the natural spread of the gun but it feels like shit even with deadeye and max stability bar

[tall torrent]

Vraks7
Fast firing
One taps both gunners
Sucks vs maniac (can’t be saved)

HB1
Funny gun/spear combo
Hits great breakpoints

HB2
Funny gun/spear combo
Hits great points on top of insane ammo economy

HB3
Gun (can’t spear)
Takes set-up and commitment
Actually great in the right situations (doesn’t happen that often)

MG12
Fast anti-shooter gun
Basically not worth playing without EXE stance
Sucks vs flak armor (can’t be saved)

[inner imp]

the slightly more input for way better trade off is what makes psword braindead for me

[torn root]

if you have more to do how is it brain dead

[tall torrent]

Revolver (just for comparison)
One taps most things
Low firing uptime
Used in combination with melee vet

[torn root]

you are activley thinking more lmao

[tall torrent]

But bolter does smth none of these can

[torn root]

and its not slightly more input

[inner imp]

cus ur not really using ur head ur just muscle memory special->swing

[tall torrent]

Bolter can stagger bulwarks (this is hugely useful) and mag dump if the situation calls for it

[torn root]

you COULD just hold W and press LMB

[tall torrent]

Bolter’s ammo economy is not as fucked up as plasma gun

It’s not great but it’s not as bad as plasma

[slate sleet]

all the ogryn enemies get instantly removed in my games

krak grenades are insane

[torn root]

Tap Special, tap Spacebar, hold RMB to cancle animation, release RMB on time then Double tap LMB and repeat

[slate sleet]

i never find them to be a issue at all

[tall torrent]

And bolter gets to deal with more elites at the same time than revolvers

[slate sleet]

i think revolver is just a easier to use mini bolter

[tall torrent]

Revolver is generally better

[slate sleet]

with reload skills its very fast at removing everything you need

[tall torrent]

But revolver is busted

[slate sleet]

its busted yeah

i like the funny shover 1 shot more

[tall torrent]

My biggest issues with bolter are:

1. Super high point investment into making it feel good
2. Cannot rapid shoot accurately

Every other precision 1 shot weapon can deal with multiple targets and 1 tap all of them accurately

[slate sleet]

its basically my problem too

[tall torrent]

MG12 with a caveat cuz it’s just not good without exe stance, but with exe stance it can do that very well

[slate sleet]

it feels too shit to use

i think exe stance has no purpose in the game right now

[tall torrent]

Bolter’s follow up shots feel bad, on top of the already massive point sink into making it feel good

[torn root]

That animation cancle is NOT easy and it could be faster

[slate sleet]

shout / stealth builds can get all 3 red nodes + weakspot damage

doing basically what exe stance does but with infinite survivability

[tall torrent]

A helbore2 gets to rapid fire with zero recoil and kill everything in 1-2 shots on top of insane ammo economy and funny spear

[slate sleet]

vraks 3 headhunter removes bosses so fast its disgusting

i think the bolter literally has 0 purpose

[tall torrent]

Bolter needs something to alleviate these imo

[torn root]

Heresy

[tall torrent]

It’s not really the draw speed being slow

[slate sleet]

i needs to deal insane aoe dmg

[tall torrent]

Cuz HB3 has shit draw speed and it still has a purpose

[torn root]

Everyone needs a Dopamine hit

[slate sleet]

like it used to

i remeber in the beta you pulled it out and deleted a whole wave

[torn root]

you can still do this tho

lmao

[slate sleet]

plasma does it way better

and it feels like shit against most enemies

[torn root]

nah man you not gunna ignore the fact you just typed that liek it was truth tho

lmao

shit still deletes waves

[slate sleet]

used to be you removed everything now i constantly see bulwarks take literally 0 dmg from it

[tall torrent]

Bulwarks are kinda buggy

Did they fix the krak grenade bug yet

[slate sleet]

i know for a fact the bolter used to be way better

[torn root]

no

[slate sleet]

and feel better

[torn root]

vacation still not done yet

[tall torrent]

Where if it detonates on an enemy that’s climbing, it does zero damage whatsoever

[torn root]

still there

[tall torrent]

That one’s so funny to me

[trim steppe]

Cant die if you stay focused on climbing

[tall torrent]

Taking the worse pathing to choose specifically an anti-ogryn grenade just for it to either not kill anything cuz teammates kill them too fast, or deal no damage

[torn root]

i wish you could cook krak grenades

every grenade actually

its dumb that you can't

makes no sense from a balance perspective either

[tall torrent]

You uh
When you draw frag grenades your veteran already pulls the pin off

And somehow it never blows up in your hand

[umbral scaffold]

Imagine Lucifer Black skin for vet https://youtube.com/shorts/EyjkzwxwGso?si=2-J3u9-CpdbiHXvN

[torn root]

well that's because you are holding the fuse

[umbral scaffold]

Timer starts when the handle comes off.

[torn root]

yeah you are holding the fuse handle when you pull the pin

so no timer starts

[tall torrent]

That’s a nice detail

[umbral scaffold]

Ye, small but important detail

[iron marten]

Doesn’t the military (irl anyway) teach you not to cook nades?

[torn root]

actually i thought of a reason why they dont allow us to

they removed Friendly Fire so we COULD technically abuse the fact

[tall torrent]

It’s because the fuse is not very predictable between different types of frag grenades

[torn root]

for some dumb reason

[tall torrent]

Some models of frags have 4s fuse, some have 6s

[torn root]

^

[tall torrent]

And the video game “pick up an enemy thrown frag and toss it back at them” is more of a legend thing

It did happen

But you’re usually instructed to immediately duck and go prone

[iron marten]

It did happen, and told by those who survived

[tall torrent]

Because you never know what the remaining fuse actually is

[tall torrent]

Yea it happened like once or twice

And was told into legend status so games added it for the cool factor

[torn root]

so lemme thow back bombers nades

tyvm

[iron marten]

The only time you’d probably throw back a nade is if you’re in a trench

[torn root]

ill take the repercussions

[iron marten]

Otherwise, run, duck-n-dive

[tall torrent]

Even in a trench you’d still be instructed to immediately go prone if you can’t duck behind cover

[wanton dawn]

Eheh, now i am thinking of all those riot where ppl blow their hands doing that crap with police 'nades

[torn root]

i think the only situation its even passable to try and throw it back is if its right next to you

because you are kinda of doomed already

[tall torrent]

Yea that “throw enemy nade back at them” thing is like one in 500 kind of chance of actually working

[wanton dawn]

Next to the "shot their legs" or "shot their guns"

Oh well, at least they dont pretend eating 3 apples and taking a deep breath heals bullets wound

[forest blaze]

Only guys who have a least favorite arm and enjoy drinking their steak do this

[wanton dawn]

Though i have to say: that movie with the japanese committing grenade seppuku was pretty raw

[iron marten]

Speaking of, the Professional Vet actually complains about his knee being fixed wrong by a medicae servitor

And I think the Judge Zealot notices it, and starts the convo

[wanton dawn]

Arrows does that to a mf

[spark helm]

Eh, you can handle things like gas canisters a lot safer in the heat of fucked up shit but usually you're already being advanced on by police. Not like raw with your hands but plenty of protestor groups have found ways to combat that.

People in some areas of the world whose police aren't equipped with decent/any functional aerosol protection actually won't fire at certain ranges with tear gas because any wind carrying the stuff can and often does blowback.

Whatever this scab bomber shit is probably so fucking hot and volatile you'de lose your everything trying that shit without some 40k magic nonsense or whatever

If anything they're probably being nice letting it actually have a charge lmao. Considering how long that bastard can throw, dude just has to drive it from fuck all into someone's head and they're just done.

When's fastball bomber gauntlets.

[wanton dawn]

You'd rather have flame nade explode mid air ?

[spark helm]

Yes.

[wanton dawn]

That'd be fun tbf

[spark helm]

And carpet the area in a fallout napalm.

some gross nurgle shit

[tall torrent]

Let us shoot the grenade down midair

[spark helm]

and you take corruption dmg insted or something along with dot

fuck it, it slows you

[spark helm]

I could've sworn I slapped a bomber nade by accident with my knife while in a mob last night.

[wanton dawn]

They have hitbox

[serene sage]

im not sure if i shold be happy im topping damage or upset that teammates aren't killing shit

[wanton dawn]

See archo video of the buster pushed by bomber

[inner imp]

why not both?

[spark helm]

...

I want to smack it back with a shovel.

Full stop.

Let me play sports. Now.

[serene sage]

that would be toxic :^)

[spark helm]

oh that'd be a cute little game

darktide baseball.

:U

[serene sage]

darktide hot potato

[spark helm]

YO!

VET SHOVEL VOLLEY?!

Let's go.

Let's fucking GO!

[wanton dawn]

Buster pushing game

[spark helm]

I'd play like.

ogryn bowling

I'm not joking

[strange sparrow]

Hot take, they should change how exec stances work to how Scrier's Gaze work

[slate sleet]

@primal mesa watching your 1h vet tree vid rn and you are farting on alot of nodes pretty hard but failing to bring up how they are god tier in some builds like the serrated blade one having insane synergy with mercy killer knife vet

[stable socket]

hello vets (i have very little experience on this class), the vets i see in auric are commonly running some kind of gun with ~600-700 ammo that shoots extremely fast and (it feels like) deletes everything below carapace almost instantly - could i ask what gun that is? thanks!

[spark helm]

I did it when I ran ogryn and would slide into my rock throws for the underhand

Underhand > overhand. better points

[strange sparrow]

Is it a las weapon

if no, it's columnus Mk V IAG

[stable socket]

it shoots bullets, i think

[inner imp]

mmm mercy killer uncanny

[slate sleet]

columnus mk 5 infantry autogun

[wanton dawn]

Bold of yah to assume we know how scrier works

[frank ledge]

knife vet 🤮

[serene sage]

almost certainly columnus mk5 as others have said

[stable socket]

got it, thanks! when my baby vet becomes grown up i will try out that gun

[strange sparrow]

You press a button and you get buffed

[inner imp]

what if i told you the autogun also deleted crushers

[wanton dawn]

Sounds like exec alright

[serene sage]

are you a knife vet main?

[slate sleet]

shut yer trap or sly marbo will be in your walls tonight

[stable socket]

oh dang how does that work against crushers

[strange sparrow]

Could swap between melee and range weapon

[stable socket]

do you just take all the rending

[frank ledge]

Sly Marbo uses a chain sword or a catachan blade

[slate sleet]

you take rending talents or krak

[strange sparrow]

You take Onslaught

Onslaught is the thing that kill Crusher

[inner imp]

rending brittleness pre keystones vet still works

[tall torrent]

Outside of knife vet, that vid still missed a ton of important info

[slate sleet]

sly marbo is not a preset, its a idea

[frank ledge]

https://tenor.com/view/warhammer-wh40k-sly-marbo-aaaaaa-alfabusa-gif-14316691

[stable socket]

holy shit

[strange sparrow]

Or you take a kraks grenade

[wanton dawn]

Serrated blade is actually good on knife ?

[stoic mantle]

hmmmmmm do i buy?

[stable socket]

ok i really want to try those out now

[slate sleet]

i play knife vet any time i use a stealth build yes

[stable socket]

thanks again for all the info!

[slate sleet]

cant say im a main

[serene sage]

take deadshot and stamina curios for maximum coolness

[slate sleet]

poke a enemy once with light attack and do a heavy for easy 1 shot

[serene sage]

i can imagine why you are so butthurt about powersword and plasma

[wanton dawn]

Oh, i guess serrated blade is good on non bleed blessing knife

[strange sparrow]

Probably how you could build (Columnus IAG) funny

[wanton dawn]

With mercy

[tall torrent]

Uncanny + mercy gets a lot of value out of serrated blade

[wanton dawn]

Pretty niche though

[strange sparrow]

People here prefer Shredder grenade, but fuck that shit

[slate sleet]

i clear auric malestorm with hardest modifiers using off meta weapons

im not butthurt

i just think plasma psword is fucking boring

trivializes the game

[crisp rapids]

if u can kill crushers

u dont need krak

the support shredder is bette rimo

as lkong as crushers arent a issue

[serene sage]

idk, coming in here calling people cringe out of the blue and flaming others who are asking for advice sounds a little butthurt but idk

[wanton dawn]

Kraks is meh against crusher

[strange sparrow]

I mean Kraks is just a tool for you to instant kill stuff you dislike

[crisp rapids]

its literally a oneshot

[serene sage]

and I clear Auric stuff with slug shotty
most everyone here can do the same

[strange sparrow]

It's not that hard to think about

[slate sleet]

plasma and psword are cringe, it makes you worse at the game because you trivialize it

[crisp rapids]

i much rather have shredders

[tiny junco]

here's an idea, polearm

[slate sleet]

when they get nerfed the people will cry

[strange sparrow]

While Shredder is like support grenade, which I don't pull out/use a lot

[wanton dawn]

Solo crusher are not dangerous outside of sneak overhead

[strange sparrow]

because Columnus kill everything ald

[crisp rapids]

shedder is very reliable

[trim steppe]

Im not here to artificially inflate the difficulty, I'm here to live out my power fantasy. And that inlcudes hacking 70 dudes in half at once with an electro sword

[serene sage]

well ig im salty cause you called me cringe for using the bolter

[crisp rapids]

yeah amongus gun is op

who would have guessed

[serene sage]

when the gun isn't even that good

[crisp rapids]

i run agrip.

brautor

BRRRRRRauto

[serene sage]

(it's fine, just not plasma/rev good)

[crisp rapids]

also graia fucking suckjs

[wanton dawn]

Frags is arguably better than kraks vs multiple crusher

[slate sleet]

bolter is cringe because it sucks

its criminal how bad it is

[crisp rapids]

kek look at this fool

[lofty lintel]

It doesnt suck

[strange sparrow]

If your teammate get enough braincells to kill one when they're downed

[crisp rapids]

"everything i dont liek is cringe"

[lofty lintel]

Bolter is fine

[crisp rapids]

bolter needs some adjustments

[wanton dawn]

Bold of yah to assume i need teammates

[crisp rapids]

to reload speed and pulling out

[strange sparrow]

Which in my case, They are still busy trying to stay alive

[lofty lintel]

No itd be busted otherwise

[serene sage]

bolter needs like a 20% draw speed and a few more bullets per mag

[crisp rapids]

rn is dog

[serene sage]

and it will be S- tier

[slate sleet]

awful hitreg and bugged bulwarks make it feel like a chore to use

[crisp rapids]

20 bullets

[lofty lintel]

Its fine just overshadowed by revolver and plasma

[serene sage]

not OP but like really great

[wanton dawn]

There is one enemy against which kraks >>> frags, and thats BoN

[lofty lintel]

Anyone with an attention span of over 4 seconds can reliably use bolyer

[tall torrent]

I don’t think those are the biggest issues actually
I think it’s the fact that you cannot rapidly respond to multiple priority targets with good accuracy

[lofty lintel]

Bolter*

[crisp rapids]

it seems like u have a skill issue

[tall torrent]

Every other sniper style weapon can

[lofty lintel]

Yeah

[crisp rapids]

even non snipers can handle it fast

they couldmake it into a propper aoe weapon

[strange sparrow]

Everything do better than bolter so why bring bolter

that's probably the question now

[crisp rapids]

cause bolter is fun

thats it

[lofty lintel]

Because its a fun weapon

[crisp rapids]

its hilarious

DAKKA DAKKA

[lofty lintel]

And its also not bad

[crisp rapids]

its ok. but needs reload speed

hip firing a bolter mag into some unfornunate soul

is orgasmic

[strange sparrow]

it's not bad because it's average
It's bad because it's not performing as top tier gun

[serene sage]

it should but I don't think they should buff it regardless

[lofty lintel]

I agree but it should have to be slight

[strange sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/rat-mouse-like-thumbs-up-rat-thumbs-up-gif-26155558

[lofty lintel]

Because the bolter is fine

[tall torrent]

Bolter does several things none of the precision sniper weapons do, like staggering bulwarks open, stagger large hordes and multiple elites, and magdump if the situation calls for it

[lofty lintel]

As is

[serene sage]

so everything that is not plasma/revolver/colum is bad

[strange sparrow]

Yes

[crisp rapids]

cringe take

[strange sparrow]

Unironically

[crisp rapids]

shit take

[lofty lintel]

Horrible take

Lol

[crisp rapids]

one of the worst takes here

lmao

[cold wigeon]

not a great take

[serene sage]

then I guess we are just arguing semantics

[crisp rapids]

u have to be REALLY bad to think that

[serene sage]

I think the trio is OP

everything else is good

[crisp rapids]

the trip is 100% op

[serene sage]

you think the trio is good
everything else is bad

we basically agree

[strange sparrow]

Im not gonna go into that debate but if you put good performer against average performer

average performer just look and feel bad

[crisp rapids]

a armor killing autognu should not be that fast firing

[lofty lintel]

Untrue

[wanton dawn]

What is cringe take ?

[junior needle]

Well, not everything else

[crisp rapids]

more like bad player

any good palyer can perform with anything

[junior needle]

I can think of a few bad weapons

[serene sage]

it's fine, we agree tbh, I think those 3 guns should be nerf rather than the other stuff buffed

[crisp rapids]

and look OP with it.

[strange sparrow]

Yea run a game with recon las gun and autoshredder pistol

[wanton dawn]

I cant perform with smoke

[serene sage]

well maybe the recon and shredder

[slate sleet]

plasma needs to be slow and shitty to use like the bolter

[strange sparrow]

I want to see the damage output

[crisp rapids]

agree 🤝

[slate sleet]

for how strong it is

[serene sage]

actually is shredder that bad?

[slate sleet]

bolter needs to be way more powerful considering how clunky it is to use

[serene sage]

or people just don't use it

[lofty lintel]

Ok recon lasgun is another case because it falls behind EVERYTHING

[crisp rapids]

its not taht bad

[wanton dawn]

Ppl would swap to revolver

[crisp rapids]

i tried on psykarnium

[lofty lintel]

Not just the 3 op weapons

[strange sparrow]

I tried to run it on Psyker, it's not optimal

[slate sleet]

revolver needs to be nerfed

[crisp rapids]

its very decent

[strange sparrow]

Because you don't have ADS

[crisp rapids]

just cant kill crushers AT ALL

so u run smoething else

[serene sage]

Revolver cleave to 2

[lofty lintel]

Shredder is another bad weapon

[serene sage]

and suddenly it's balanced

[crisp rapids]

no it isnt.

shredder is fine

[wanton dawn]

Shredder is worse agri brauto imo

[lofty lintel]

Just a very fast tickler

[crisp rapids]

hyper mobile.

[lofty lintel]

I had a bad experience with it

[crisp rapids]

does decent dmg

[junior needle]

It's pretty bad against things that aren't maniac. Falls behind considerably as a mainline weapon now, especially compared to columnus.

[slate sleet]

shredder is ok if your melee or ranged wep deletes ogryns

[crisp rapids]

it does ok against ogryns too

i do run exec tho.

a lot weapons become super good with exec

[lofty lintel]

I can get more or less the same mobiltiy with braced autogun and i actually do dmg

[serene sage]

Revolver with low cleave would make it a lot harder to use while maintaining the one shot ability

[slate sleet]

kinda pointless grenade consdering you fart inspire ults every 10 sec or some shit

[crisp rapids]

yeah, currently it feels like that

[lofty lintel]

Shredder autopistol

[slate sleet]

never feel like a crowd can even get to me when i use inspire

[lofty lintel]

Shredder grenades are amazing

[crisp rapids]

they should put shredder crit like las pistols

extra base crit

make it into a crit weapon

[lofty lintel]

That could work

[junior needle]

I don't have videos folder organized so I'll just retake dps videos for the autopistol

[slate sleet]

oh the pistol? its fun with raking fire stealth

[crisp rapids]

with no carapace dmg

i often see myself ignoring crushers when running agrip brautoi

kill everything else first

[junior needle]

Just take double rending

[crisp rapids]

then crushers.

[junior needle]

ezclap crushers

[crisp rapids]

i dont ahve the points

to do that

[junior needle]

you should make some points, it's very much worth it. Rending also counters damage loss over distance.

[crisp rapids]

15% elite dmg from superiority + take it down

exhilerating takedown + confirmed kill

iron will

lets me basically be invinsible soo often

[tall torrent]

For veteran, not very good

Apparently if you play assail psyker (lol) with blaze away it can get pretty hilarious because the +8% power applies to assail shards

[junior needle]

exhil takedown on a brauto?

[wanton dawn]

You really need exil on brauto ?

[junior needle]

Interesting choice

[crisp rapids]

its ok

u get pretty good ammount of headshot kills

when u are cleaving trough the horde

and the agrip brauto basically onetaps once stack with frenzy and splitter

[junior needle]

Oh, you hordeclear with your ranged weapon?

[crisp rapids]

yeah

:XD:

[wanton dawn]

I feel like ppl seriously overestimate exhil value

[crisp rapids]

agrip brauto has enough ammo for that

especialyl with +25% ammo

[junior needle]

Please face the wall.

[crisp rapids]

• need to kinda hordeclear a bit to reach the elites*

[serene sage]

yeah just tested in psyk

[crisp rapids]

while having max stacks of frenzy and splitter

[serene sage]

TTK is kinda meh

[wanton dawn]

Then again, i always felt that exhil was a poor thoughness regen mechanism

[junior needle]

It's fine if you're doing it to get things in a mixed horde

[tall torrent]

Exhilarating takedown is not bad but not the best thing either because even if you aim headshots all the time, you’re still not getting as many headshots as you’d want

[junior needle]

But not to avoid meleeing chaffe

[crisp rapids]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046912126746374274/1190819484576010260/image.png?ex=65a33011&is=6590bb11&hm=30d7e9907f7c7f83d18a9b45328117c0a41999d7dee0e49a3beb939f53e6d154& pretty shure this is without exec stand up

[lofty lintel]

Autopistol is bad because it got power creeped

Its underwhelming even when built right

[crisp rapids]

after staking up frenzy and splitter

with exec up its even more dmg

[wanton dawn]

My issue is that it does not help in melee, which is where most thoughness loss tend to spiral out of control

[crisp rapids]

killing maulers with 4 bodyshots

while the horde gets a massive hole made in it

[tall torrent]

And that too

[crisp rapids]

any shooter is basically 2 shots once stacked (if even that)

[strange sparrow]

Probably my problem with AutoShredder is now the spread is now gigantic

[crisp rapids]

at 500+ dmg (with exec up) u can reach 4000 dps with the 8 shots per second

[lofty lintel]

😬

[wanton dawn]

Also requires ranged headshot kill. Ofb give you same value for 4 unrestricted kills

[lofty lintel]

Apex legends ttk

[serene sage]

that ttk is not helping either tbh

[crisp rapids]

with the ping for exta 20% dmg it reaches 660 ish

[strange sparrow]

The stats of the weapon

[crisp rapids]

and then u dealing 8*660 dps, (and if it pierces, which it usually does at least 1 target)

[strange sparrow]

Also with full talent tree buff (Crit Guarantee and stuff from Psyker)

[junior needle]

shredder dps vs armor types. Gray, talentless, near max offensive stats.

[crisp rapids]

u can 1 shot -> kill multiple shooters.

[lofty lintel]

Yeah its just bad wep

[crisp rapids]

its a close range weapon the dps is fine

[strange sparrow]

Can't hit anything that is 8meter +

[crisp rapids]

at 660 dmg per shot, 8 shots per second, its 5600 dps.

on the brauto

[strange sparrow]

consistently

[crisp rapids]

but that is if i stack, exec and ping the enemy i think

but most of the time its 500 dps when dealing with shit

once i starts rolling its basically 2-4 tapping most enemies

save muties, and ogryns.

which ahve high hp.

but still.

[torn root]

i wish ppl would learn that you can move and kill guys at the same time

[tall torrent]

Autopistol needs better damage and accuracy

The damage is miserable

[lofty lintel]

I agree

[crisp rapids]

i am always walkingn shooting while gunning shit down

[torn root]

one duded cried to the entire team that he's not getting anyhelp when he runs to a door and sits there for 5 mins

[lofty lintel]

Autopistol needs to catch up

[wanton dawn]

Autopistol was carried by pinning

[junior needle]

While the dps is fine to everything but flak baseline and in perfect circumstances, its spread makes it suffer a lot of damage loss in practice.

[tall torrent]

We live in a society where helbore bayonet gets to out-dps autopistol in literally every engagement

[wanton dawn]

Hellbore spear is huge dps though

[strange sparrow]

Yea that Video was me using Pinning talent too

[junior needle]

Pinning is a shadow of its former self

[strange sparrow]

But in practice, every target +8m is terrible

[wanton dawn]

Hb spear is one of the highest dps in vet kit

Limited by being melee, and carapace weakness

[strange sparrow]

The other issue is, most people here talk about balance based on the "Talent" that Veteran have access to

[tall torrent]

I will be waiting for the bug where uncanny strike from melee weapon incorrectly applies to bayonet

[strange sparrow]

Without Onslaught and Rending Nodes, Columnus should have a bad time dealing with Crusher

[tall torrent]

[wanton dawn]

It is vet channel tbf

[frank ledge]

Psyker columnus ain't bad

[torn root]

that's not abd

like actually

imagine with head shots

[strange sparrow]

Columnus isn't bad, but it's absurdly broken for Veteran because what the talent tree offer

[tall torrent]

That’s the thing though
You can’t get headshots nearly as easily on a random spread close range gun

[strange sparrow]

Bolt gun are fuckin terrible on Zealot but we argue on the point that we can use Exec Stances to pull the weapon out instantly

[torn root]

im for that

[wanton dawn]

Isnt columnus iag more broken on psyker ?

[torn root]

prbably the move when columnus gets nerfed

[wanton dawn]

With crit chain and crit invul ?

[strange sparrow]

Yes for Gun Psyker right now, because Crit Chain

[junior needle]

Headshots are hard to intentionally get on the autopistol for the same reason it is on the brautos. They also only have a 1.3 modifier for both weakspots and crits, which is quite low.

[strange sparrow]

But still you would have a hard time dealing with Crusher as Gun Psyker

[torn root]

maybe i can hit them with deadshot?

deadshot made landing headshots onColumnus easy af

actually took the weakspot damage because of that

[tall torrent]

Cuz psyker has a talent where they gain 5% toughness for every crit, while stacking extra move speed
So a Columnus that crits 90% the time due to high crit chance from build and crit chains will literally feed infinite toughness

That talent of 5% toughness for crit needs to get nerfed

Give it an innate cooldown like how shock trooper has

[junior needle]

The nature of bracing vs ads makes it impossible to match consistency unless you can basically remove the spread

[torn root]

oh yikes

those numbers

[tall torrent]

So it still functions for other crit weapons like laspistol, but doesn’t become ridiculous with fast firing guns

[junior needle]

Also due to it having very low finesse damage, finesse increases would be much less valuable.

Yeah, that's what I mean when I say it has low finesse values.

[torn root]

ngl this is the type of gun infernus would be nice on

but it's not allowed

[strange sparrow]

In general, people benchmark the gun based on what the talent tree offer, Veteran have absurd amount of talent just about damage potential

[torn root]

imagine cavalcade with infernus

[inner imp]

flechette infernus autopistol

[torn root]

why not make something cool like that fatshark?

[inner imp]

maybe they'll give us the Ripper autopistol.

: )

[junior needle]

I do baseline comparisons since the talent tree acts as a multiplier to existing potential, and also because peoples opinions and setups vary considerably and testing them all would be a pain.

[strange sparrow]

Also this is why Columnus is considered OP in Vet while Psyker can't deal with Crusher with Columnus

Actually need to pull out their sword (DS IV)

[torn root]

i look at all weapons at base grey before anything else

[strange sparrow]

Yea I agree on that too

[torn root]

it's not the best but it does give a handle and feel as to what the weapon is like with some of the talents

i picked up the columus and tried base grey before anything

and you could tell shit was busted

[wanton dawn]

Counterpoint: bolter vet p12 was very much a talent balance issue

[strange sparrow]

Columnus is busted rn but without a lot of talent given to Vets, it would still face Crusher problem

Currently Onslaught Bypass that which make it terribly good

[junior needle]

I didn't play in patch 12 because I got bored

I believe you though, because unwavering

[wanton dawn]

Not unwavering specifically. Counterfire though...

[strange sparrow]

And Nerfing Revolver = Nerfing Revolver for Zealot which they don't invest much into Middle tree

[junior needle]

It's still overtuned compared to other guns that also have the same issue with crushers baseline.

[crisp rapids]

they could just tie down the crit multiplier of the amongus

it would stll do well against crushers

but wouldnt eb as insane

u know?

[strange sparrow]

Using it as a "Specialist Killer"

[torn root]

this

but let it rock for one more month

[crisp rapids]

yeah, a agrip iag, or graia wont do nearly the same

[trim steppe]

da fuk is an amongus

[tall torrent]

Still needs to be nerfed at a baseline
Crit chains on it specifically should get nerfed

[crisp rapids]

columnis

[junior needle]

Bazinga

[crisp rapids]

mwaybe increase base dmg, diminish headshots. then it could still kill crushers, but not be as busted

[torn root]

Chain crit in general needs a nerf

not because of the gun, just in general

[strange sparrow]

I generally feel other IAG is under performing while Braced gun have no place in this game rn

[crisp rapids]

getting 4 crits in a row after rolling crit once is busted