veteran-class

[terse idol]

Your first few shots

When you read the explanations it starts making less sense

[uneven cloud]

quick question, can we do the long bomb achievement with other types of grenades?

[torn root]

it makes sense just requires you to actually know what a salvo is

[terse idol]

People say it puts their hitmass down by 1

1 of what

[trim steppe]

There blessings that affect 1-4 shots in a salvo, but what's a salvo, when does a salvo turn into another salvo?

[tall torrent]

I take both

[terse idol]

What hitmass do crushers start at, how about pox walkers

Bruisers

What's cleave

Etc

[tiny summit]

How long do I need to pause shooting? Does it just reset while shooting? How do I know when it's working? Idk I just keep shooting

[terse idol]

Cleave is also deceptively simple

Because you won't know what it does to enemy hit mass

[torn root]

a salvo is simultanious fire of a weapon or artillery

[terse idol]

Or how damage applies

Me heeeadd

[torn root]

a salvo ENDS when yous top firing

a new one BEGINS

when you start firing again

[tall torrent]

Wdym

[bright cliff]

go to psykanium and just watch for the buff to reappear on your hotbar. that should tell you how long a reset is.

[torn root]

the salvo description is accurate and fair

[tiny summit]

The correct answer. Now take Born Leader

[torn root]

just requires a damned dictionary

[trim steppe]

Ok so what's a salvo on single action guns? Is every shot a new salvo?

[tiny summit]

Too complicated.

[torn root]

cause we dont use many words in america

[terse idol]

Naw we were just figuring out if redirect fire for focus target refreshed when you maintain max stacks but kill an enemy on low stacks of focus target

[torn root]

no such thing as a salvo on a single action gun

there are none in this game either

[crude ermine]

You make up for lack of words with an overwhelming surplus of firearms

[terse idol]

How about a lasgun

Its semi auto

[tall torrent]

I would if they made it “gain 15% of any toughness your teammate in coherency replenishes”

[terse idol]

If I stop firing for a second do I begin a new salvo

🥹

[bright cliff]

so you can get a buff for some of the headhunters that says something like “20% dmg for first shot in salvo” and its basically every shot as long as you arent clicking literally as fast as possible

[tiny summit]

That isn't leading! That's mooching!

[bright cliff]

I think that’s what this guy is asking about

[tall torrent]

Yea it refreshes as long as a tagged enemy is killed

[tall torrent]

No that’s what we call true Imperial leadership

[torn root]

brain rot

sec

[terse idol]

https://tenor.com/view/astra-militarum-imperial-guard-warhammer-40k-smug-dance-gif-16277811808889809400

[tall torrent]

This game is lore accurate in more ways than one

[torn root]

technically speaking i think there are no double action guns, but a single action gun can literally fire a salvo

[trim steppe]

And headhunter autoguns have salvo blessings too, they are single action

[torn root]

fannin a revolver is firing a salvo

[torn root]

do yall know what single action even is?

[tiny summit]

Please Fatshark. Mechanic dictionary

[torn root]

imma be honest i feel like ppl throwing around words now

[terse idol]

Yes I know what a single action is

[trim steppe]

Fine, semi auto.

[torn root]

yeah semi auto is different than single action

[terse idol]

Like a single action revolver ssmmmh

[torn root]

and semi autos can fire off a salvo

[tiny summit]

Whenever its clips vs mags

[torn root]

you shot your shots until you choose not to

take your rest and go again

[terse idol]

But you could delay your shots with a semi auto weapon and then start a new salvo

So then I gotta ask, for salvo

[trim steppe]

I pull the trigger once. Salvo. I pull the trigger twice. One salvo or two? I pull the trigger twice quickly. One salvo or two?

[terse idol]

Does it give me a new damage buff

[torn root]

you arent required to fire in automatic to fire off a salvo

[terse idol]

How long do I need to stop firing

For it to be considered a new salvo

Do I need to reload?

FS pls

[torn root]

that part fatshark decides

[terse idol]

This is why the wording is

So painfil

[torn root]

that has nothing to do with the definition tho

[terse idol]

Even for something like a salvo

I mean

[torn root]

thats not a wording issue at that point its a coding and game design problem

[tall torrent]

Semi auto is self loading
Single action needs u to pull the hammer after each shot (sort of like manually cycling the rounds into the chamber)

[terse idol]

I was under the impression opening Salvo only gave ylu a damage boost on the first shot of a magazine

[trim steppe]

I don't care about the definition, I know what the definition of a salvo is. The problem is that Fatshark decides how long between shots and doesn't tell you.

[terse idol]

Or the 3rd and 4th

[trim steppe]

This is a convo about convoluted mechanics

[terse idol]

Frankly I don't even know if it's between shots or a new mag

[torn root]

yeah but ppl are saying it makes no sense as to what it is

[tall torrent]

There’s also semi auto single action like the 1911 handgun

[torn root]

just arguing that it does

[terse idol]

This is exaactly why even Salvo is useless

[torn root]

the time frame issue is annoying however

[tall torrent]

Salvo is continued firing until recoil resets to starting position

[terse idol]

It makes no sense in the context of us trying to make sense out of these blessings

[tiny summit]

So much worrying about words for the shootey man chat

[torn root]

ngl idk if recoil has ot reset

ive gotten the trigger when my mk5 still has sway from recoil

[tall torrent]

Mk5 recenters pretty slow

Try stuff like vraks7, MG12

[torn root]

Heresy!

[tall torrent]

Whenever the sight goes back to default position, opening salvo comes back

[terse idol]

English was a mistake

https://tenor.com/view/kiera-katsura-beestation-ss13-kiera-katsura-gif-25417004

[torn root]

especially American English

lmao

[tall torrent]

Heresy is when a Columnus mk5 IAG gets to out-dps a bolter in mag dumping vs carapace armor

[trim steppe]

Why's it different for Mk5 😆

[torn root]

oy

don't come at my favorite guns

[serene sage]

this shit is so op

[torn root]

bolter in this game is just here because fatshark didnt want to make a WH40K game without it

[serene sage]

and yet people still think it doesn't need a nerf

[torn root]

as crap as it feels compared to a bunch of other guns

[tall torrent]

Infantry autoguns have weird recoil properties and their recoil resets slower (probably done so to emulate the recoil your body feels after firing 50 or so 7.85mm long rounds at 800rpm)

[torn root]

it doesnt need a nerf, other weapons need a buff

[keen wolf]

bricked?

[trim steppe]

Pre-overhaul Bolter kicked ass. Haven't played it recently.

[torn root]

why do ppl all cry nerf before asking for buffs?

[serene sage]

nah Botler compared to Shotguns, Vraks, Helbore, Mg series, etc. is downright reasonable

[torn root]

there is no power fantasy with no power

[tall torrent]

Nah mk5 IAG definitely needs a nerf

[serene sage]

we already have buffs, the game is laughably easy with the plasma

[tall torrent]

Every other veteran S tier gun needs build & set-up

[serene sage]

Bolter compared to any other gun that is not plasma and recovler is completely fine

[torn root]

fei!

[serene sage]

plasma and revolver are outright broken

[torn root]

imma need you to stop before fatshark sees this

[teal abyss]

Idk Bolter feels weak af compared to Helbore too

[serene sage]

like how is this fair

[torn root]

leave my 2.5 second crusher kills alone!

[serene sage]

for other players

im killing nearly everything

[crisp rapids]

yueh, exhilerating + confirmed kill

with iron wil

is fucking NUTS

[torn root]

your teammates weren't shooting good enough

[serene sage]

or this

[tall torrent]

Plasma? Without one shot breakpoints it feels bad
Revolver? Without one shot breakpoints it feels bad
Helbore 1/2? Without one shot breakpoints they feel bad

Columnus mk5? Zero investment needed, you got 5 good blessings out of a pool of 10, and you don’t really have specific perk requirements to have amazing dps

[crisp rapids]

humbe abrip MK8

[torn root]

you are playing with new players that dont have good weapons yet

[serene sage]

and this isn't cherry picking, literally the last 3 games I played with the plasma

[crisp rapids]

agrip mk8 uvu

[torn root]

ngl that might be true but that is kinda crazy

[harsh merlin]

Is this worth buying?

[serene sage]

sir this is auric maelstrom, you can look at the damage taken to see that they more or less know what they are doing

plasma is OP

[torn root]

do know that 95% of the community, maybe more, are just new players that don't know what they are doing still 🙂

[serene sage]

so is the revolver

[terse idol]

Pretty goooooood

[serene sage]

:^)

[tall torrent]

I never said I don’t want buffs
I’d much prefer exe stance and infil get buffed (modifiers baked into ability themselves)

[terse idol]

Would swap groaners to something

[crisp rapids]

fox, try agrip mk8 is fucking hilarious

just doesnt kill carapace

[torn root]

if you really want fire frenzy for that gun maybe

[terse idol]

And terrifying barrage with, maybe death spitter?

[torn root]

nah man, you did that solo with bots, they joined late

[serene sage]

oh yeah fourth game in a row

[muted knot]

Yeah...

[harsh merlin]

I don't even know what blessing should go with auto gun xD

[serene sage]

fifth

[muted knot]

Dum dum and flak perk lol

[serene sage]

truly im so unlucky to get 5 games in a row with people who can't play the game 😔

plasma isn't a crutch 😄

[muted knot]

[crisp rapids]

i feel like that when i play my smite build

[torn root]

yall were clearly carriying a new player there

stop the cap man

[harsh merlin]

thanks

[serene sage]

im a paid actor

sponsored by the nerf commitee so people grind more

[muted knot]

It's true I pay @serene sage

[torn root]

i hope fatshark hires you

[crisp rapids]

i dont ge thow ppl die with vet

just take confirmed , exhilerating + iron will

[serene sage]

I would actually balance the game

[crisp rapids]

u can just spray on head level

[serene sage]

I will do what they never had the courage to

[crisp rapids]

and u always full toughness

[torn root]

you'd get fired week one for doing that

[serene sage]

I will delete the ogryn class >:)

[crisp rapids]

wat

[torn root]

i support this

[crisp rapids]

what u mean i get fire

[tall torrent]

Give veteran a talent that increases all ranged weapon cleave by 1

[torn root]

if we are gunna sit here and ACT like fatshark cares about balance I think we are being a lil delulu

[tall torrent]

This would be so funny

[torn root]

why does the biggest doofiest tankiest dude do so much damage?

[crisp rapids]

clearly not tank enough

the ogryns ive been getting on my team

[torn root]

while blocking everyone else on his team

[crisp rapids]

go down faster than psykers

[torn root]

ngl ogryn does take some skil to play, im just being upset

they eat bullets fr

[valid moss]

Just Heavy Attack, boom- you can't die as Ogryn

[torn root]

then you finally get the shield

[crisp rapids]

i am loving the agrip mk8

[gilded rock]

When I watch a lot of the ogryns on my teams they usually are not cautious to avoid hits at all

[serene sage]

I am hired by FS, here are my balance proposals
Plasma: double the heat rate, 1.5x vent speed as compensation everything else the same
Revolver: reduce cleave to 2, everything else the same
Bolter: 20% faster draw speed, mag count from 15 to 18
Shotguns: 10% more damage, 1.3x current cleave.

feel free to tear me to shred

[gilded rock]

They hear flank noise and simply "hmm, curious " and let it hit

[torn root]

you better give bolter a faster reload....

[tall torrent]

Where’s the Columnus mk5 nerf

[gilded rock]

Speaking of flank noise

[serene sage]

Bolter doesn't need reload, part of the charm of the weapon imo

but that draw speed needs help

[torn root]

it don't need no nerf

stahp

[serene sage]

this is my honest attempt at balancing

[gilded rock]

Yesterday I only got one flank noise for thirty groaners hitting me on the exact same frame

[tall torrent]

[harsh merlin]

Does hitting your orgyn count toward the cleave count?

if so it's pretty fked

[serene sage]

yeah

[gilded rock]

That was an interesting way to get "one-shotted"

[serene sage]

i guess the revolver cleave is heavy handed

[torn root]

i need friendly fire in this game

[harsh merlin]

2 would be too harsh especially if you have an orgyn in your team

[tall torrent]

Actually this would not be a bad talent, thinking abt it?

[torn root]

so everytime im shooting and a big ass bitch runs in front of me they get puished

[serene sage]

it can be tweaked, but I genuinely think those balance are fine and not out of line/won't make anything unplaybale

[harsh merlin]

if hitting your orgyn doesn't count toward that then it's acceptable

[torn root]

tired of my bullets getting eaten

[harsh merlin]

basically, it's really annoying

[torn root]

it is

[crisp rapids]

unyielding carapace on plasma?

shattering and gets hot?

[torn root]

like only 1 out of 15 ogryns notice that they can walk to the side

but braincells aren't included so there is that

[harsh merlin]

it's hard for them to manage that tbh

[crisp rapids]

what to swap here

[fading grove]

Glory hunter

[tall torrent]

Groaner to elite
Gloryhunter to gets hot

[crisp rapids]

really?

[fading grove]

Ye

[torn root]

swap glory hunter 100%

[crisp rapids]

not carapace?

[terse idol]

No

[crisp rapids]

why elite and not carapace?

[tall torrent]

You don’t have to have carapace

[terse idol]

Plasma has a weird interaction when you shoot crushers or maulers in the head

[crisp rapids]

so this is now a god tier plasma:XD:?

[terse idol]

It turns into flak iirc

[tall torrent]

Because elite allows u to one tap gunners and improve ur dmg on ragers & maulers

[terse idol]

So carapace isn't very useful

[torn root]

i think crushers are still unyielding in the head

[tall torrent]

Also increases dmg to crushers because they are elite enemies

[tall torrent]

Carapace everywhere

[terse idol]

You can one tap gunners with elite?

I mean test it

Test iit

[torn root]

can you still 2 tap without carapace?

[tall torrent]

I run this

[crisp rapids]

what the build tho?

i'l try this

[terse idol]

I run a variation

[tall torrent]

Lemme record

[terse idol]

But I still need + unarmoured

[torn root]

would it be troll if i tried plasma gun with onslaught?

[serene sage]

probably yeah

then again

plasma

so probably not

[crisp rapids]

deadshot?

[tall torrent]

Doesn’t work on plasma at all

[torn root]

wait, really?

frigin why?

oh im dumb

nvm

[serene sage]

can't ADS

[torn root]

nah i caught on

dw

braincells aren't all asleep yet

[fading grove]

Executioners stance graia braced autogun is too much fun

[wet elk]

is this gun any good?

[serene sage]

what

[torn root]

if you like nerf guns yeah 🙂

[tall torrent]

@terse idol

[terse idol]

Okay with tag

Can you do it eithout?

[tall torrent]

Without tag it’s 1368 headshot

[slim rivet]

Not much but that t4 infernus could be donated to Hadron

[terse idol]

I build pgun for a strict no tag one tap

[muted knot]

Brother

[terse idol]

Yeah

[muted knot]

Stay safe

[tall torrent]

With longshot you would be able to, further away

[terse idol]

We live in unarmoured life

True!

[torn root]

i feel like that gun doesnt need get's hot

just me?

[serene sage]

not a scambot, dude is regular in #ogryn-class

[terse idol]

But I'm in the theory that you neeeed

Unarmoured still

[serene sage]

did I anger them somehow

[crisp rapids]

should i spam m1 on the plasma

[terse idol]

For hordes of crushers and maulers imo

[crisp rapids]

or do charged shots?

[terse idol]

Yes

[terse idol]

No

[tall torrent]

Unarmored allows u to one tap Dreg gunners without going into +25% ammo and +15% elite

[serene sage]

oh yeah

[tall torrent]

But those 2 are really good for plasma so I don’t see a reason not to

[terse idol]

This is why you need to meet the breakpoint on dredge gunners to be able to one tap dredge gunners

Without charging

[torn root]

blaze away?

[terse idol]

Hello yeah

[terse idol]

Yeah

This is why I advocate for

80TR

For max 9 shots~ left click

[torn root]

but before i was saying gets hot wasnt needed lmao

i really dont think it needs crit

[terse idol]

It iss

Or welll

[tall torrent]

It saves points but I feel for plasma those 2 nodes are just really strong anyways

[terse idol]

This is why I said glory hunter isn't a dead talent

If you think blaze away has little value

Make more value from survivabilityn

Gets hot imo, nessasary

[fading grove]

Why take glory Hunter when you can just take the node that gives you back toughness on ranger kill

[tall torrent]

Also, if you redirect fire stacks, you don’t have to tag the Dreg gunner itself to get the breakpoint

[terse idol]

But you could swap gets hot with glory and not lose too much

[torn root]

the crit is neccessary why tho im actually curious, cant you just raw damage?

[tall torrent]

Because it’s only missing 32 dmg

Small difference, redirect fire will cover it

[terse idol]

Imo it just helps delete thick mauler/crusher hordes

And you could get value mag dumping a boss

[tall torrent]

FTE also gives u that breakpoint

[terse idol]

I'm in pgun hellll

Also because I have a suboptimal pgun

I'm about 100 damage off

I gotta compensate

[torn root]

put on the CoD gun

[raven abyss]

does somebody can link a decent auto gun build? please 🙂 !

[crisp rapids]

this is the core of autogun dmg

[torn root]

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9ae54218-3657-4ab2-8eaa-c996e9c94323/veteran-gunzerker

[crisp rapids]

imo

[torn root]

🙂

[crisp rapids]

then the rest do wha tu want

autoguns dont have insane dmg by themselves, but they shoot fast, unlike other elite annihilation options

the benefit of them is once buffed enough theyll clear pretty much anything

[terse idol]

Hmmm

[crisp rapids]

whereas the revolver and plasma do a lot of dmg by themselves, but shoot slower

comparetivelly

[terse idol]

Columnus speaks otherwise

[crisp rapids]

the plasma and revolver. does a lot more dmg

than a amogus autogun

[raven abyss]

ty!

[terse idol]

You could theoretically even mag dump a crusher in the head and kill it

[torn root]

mostly so you can just kill maulers and crushers on sight, you can swap flak on the gun for unyielding, maulers die regardless when you aim a them

[crisp rapids]

not very ammo efficient, u catch my drift right?

[torn root]

kinda apm intensive if you want to keep stamina up sometimes

[terse idol]

Yeah thats pretty good

[crisp rapids]

what u got on that?

[spring rose]

Autogun is pretty much trade in ttk from revolver plasma for speed and firing rate

[strange sparrow]

Unrealistic expectation of Psykarium main

[crisp rapids]

:XD:

yeah i notice this a lot of psyker chat

showing "breakpoints on a lot of elites"

but in game its a LOT different

[terse idol]

No no it matterss

[crisp rapids]

as the enemies arent just hanging around for u to shoot them

[terse idol]

At least when I talk about pgun

I've talked about pgun for the past 3 weeks

These are important

[crisp rapids]

but do show the build that is hilarious

[crisp rapids]

pgun?

[terse idol]

The heavy gunner when he stands there to shoot you

Plasmagun

[crisp rapids]

ah isee

[tall torrent]

For weapons that care about 1 hit kills, breakpoints are MAKE OR BREAK

[crisp rapids]

its a bit more complicated, on the psykarnium he isnt shooting

[terse idol]

Well again yeah like 955 is saying

[crisp rapids]

:XD: expected tbh

[terse idol]

It matters

[tall torrent]

For weapons that don’t one shot most of the time, breakpoints matter a lot less

[terse idol]

You don't want to 2 shot dredge gunners with a pgun

Trust me I did that

[crisp rapids]

and what, a agrip, or columunus

[strange sparrow]

No survivability, only raw potential damage

[terse idol]

Its terrible

[strange sparrow]

Columnus

[terse idol]

Yeah

[torn root]

proud of you brother

[terse idol]

Columnus you spray and pray

But like revolver

Meeting breakpoints

Plasmagun

Meet those

[torn root]

you could jsut go VoC :)\

[strange sparrow]

Realistically, Here's how Columnus gonna be like half the time against crusher

[terse idol]

Yes the psykanarium is an ideal environment

[strange sparrow]

Half a mag dump

[terse idol]

But!

It does teach us hhos things performance

[torn root]

you're not mine

lmao

is that deadshot?

[strange sparrow]

No, Deadshot is funny man build with no stamina left

[crisp rapids]

no need to ping the enemy

a headshot will kill

or u guys talking about bodyshots?

[tall torrent]

Meat grinder is perfect scenario where they just let you headshot and you don’t have horde or toughness or stamina to manage

[torn root]

uuug target down, Duck and Dive and Stamina regen

im like almost never out of stamina

[terse idol]

On uncharged right?

Headshot

[torn root]

you're dodging anyway too the amount of free stamina you get from shots missing you is dumb

[terse idol]

Yes if you meet the headshot

[crisp rapids]

unsharged

[terse idol]

One shot on a dredge gunner

You've made it

Yees

You've made it

[crisp rapids]

ye

gud

[strange sparrow]

Time to gamble

[tall torrent]

For Dreg gunners, without unarmored perk, it takes some effort to get that headshot 1 tap with plasma gun

[terse idol]

As someone who right click charged for months meeting the left click headshot is diiifferent

[spring rose]

Remember: 99% of gamblers quit before they win big

[strange sparrow]

You do you, I dont like deadshot and probably wouldn't include crit columnus

[torn root]

im not trying to get you to use it, was mostly curious on what you are using

[crisp rapids]

its onetapping without ping, with ping likelly even easier

[strange sparrow]

most of the talent in my tree is just keeping me alive now

[torn root]

also doesn't seem to have onslaught or carapace on it, idk

[terse idol]

If you dont have long shot though extemee ranges you maye not kill but I'll do more testing

[tall torrent]

What’s ur build

[crisp rapids]

onesec

[torn root]

easier than one tapping?, so like they just fall over and die?

[strange sparrow]

It does have Onslaught and Carapace on it, but critical Onslaught just really really good overall

[torn root]

fair

[strange sparrow]

But im not into that playstyle anymore

Fuck Mk2 hellbore crit attempt

never gone full crit in this game

[torn root]

deadshot is the only crit i ever use

[strange sparrow]

Now watch as Hadron Brick this

[crisp rapids]

gful crit is fun

[torn root]

not sure if even taking the 5% is worth it

[junior needle]

Yeah columnus is just insanely overtuned

[torn root]

no its not!

stahp

[strange sparrow]

Issa gone

[torn root]

nah keep it

[tall torrent]

If you have redirect fire stacks up, and you have elite on your plasma gun, that’s going to 1 shot them

[junior needle]

You right. All the other guns are just undertuned.

[torn root]

maniac to flak or carapace and hit and run to dumdum

[torn root]

exactly

[crisp rapids]

and i just need to keep pinging to kepe the 5 stacks up

which is fucking nuts

niec

[tall torrent]

But that’s the “takes a bit of effort” part

You’re devoting points towards that breakpoint

[junior needle]

Perfectly fine, unyielding to flak and sussy fire to dumdum

95% power

[radiant plank]

hmmm 2530 melk bucks for no respite 4

[crisp rapids]

maniac with full stacks when critted take 1998 dmg 😢

[serene sage]

weak

just go the 3x3 stam route and full mag your columnus

[crisp rapids]

missing 2 dmg pointus

ofc if headshot its a tap without crit

[strange sparrow]

Staminaless

I hope you find a situation where you need to push a poxburster

[crisp rapids]

should i take likefocused fire instead of the 0.25 steam speedup?

[serene sage]

I would hit F ❤️

[strange sparrow]

And find your arms weak palms sweaty

[crisp rapids]

or killzones

extra stacks or killzone or 0.25 stamina regen speedup

[tall torrent]

0.25 stam regen delay sounds like a small change
It is one of the best nodes for veteran

[tall torrent]

Extra stacks in practice translates to +4.5% damage for your whole team most of the time

[crisp rapids]

worf?

[torn root]

aye

[crisp rapids]

am running 36% extra stamina regen on curios

:XD:

[serene sage]

the stacking is badly explained in the tooltip, just go to the psykhanium with Redirect and Focus Fire

[crisp rapids]

do i realyl need that perk?

[torn root]

absolutely balanced

[tall torrent]

You almost never run into situations in combat where you can build 8 stacks without tagging & killing stuff unless you’re purposefully doing that in which case you’re not getting enough value out of redirect fire and the keystone itself

[tall torrent]

-0.25s stam regen delay is very strong if you don’t have one already

[crisp rapids]

just at the start of each combat ping something at 8, then spam

[torn root]

this

[crisp rapids]

evne with 3 curios with 12% extra stam??

[torn root]

take the -.20 stam regen delay on the way to onslaught

[tall torrent]

12% extra on all 3 curios improve how much you regen after the delay passes

[torn root]

its just an easy path

[tall torrent]

The delay is still a major factor

[crisp rapids]

huh

[torn root]

idk about running 3 stamina curios though

[tall torrent]

Especially when you need to tank aggro and block attacks

[tall torrent]

Triple stam regen curios is good

[torn root]

personally i like 2x stamina curious and 1 toughness

175 toughness is just a nice spot to be at

[tall torrent]

I have 163 toughness I think

[crisp rapids]

any reason why shout ?

[torn root]

saftey

meta

braindead

[crisp rapids]

:XD:

sounds like it lel

[torn root]

easy get out of jail free button

[crisp rapids]

ig with iron will its evens tronger

[torn root]

spam for no reason

its free

[crisp rapids]

and with the exhilerating + confirmed

[hollow ibex]

me running with over 200 toughness constantly

[crisp rapids]

even more

[torn root]

best spot of the tree

more toughness

free toughness

so many reasons

[torn root]

excessive

[hollow ibex]

prob

[strange sparrow]

IronWill

[hollow ibex]

it feels nice tho

[strange sparrow]

More toughness is better with iron will

[hollow ibex]

yeah i run iron will too

[torn root]

at 165 and iron will poxbursters cant damage you through your tougness

maybe even slightly less

[crisp rapids]

field improve or exhilirating tkedown?

[torn root]

exhilerating takedown

both are good tbh

[crisp rapids]

iron will + shout + close order drill + confirmed

sounds busted

for keep toughness up

how do vets even die?

[torn root]

yes busted

[crisp rapids]

just spam plasma at cloes range

[serene sage]

Maulers/crushers overhead
Barrels

[white minnow]

extreme accidents such as accidentally ticking off +overtoughness from VoC and trying to tank a burster next game

[crisp rapids]

and see your toughness never get low

[torn root]

i dont have the luxury of running it that way but, how can you ever complain when playing vet when you can takes those

[serene sage]

Also ragers will eat up your toughness

Even with shout

[torn root]

the barrels are more likely to get you

lmao

[crisp rapids]

tap tap ded

[torn root]

imma be honest

sometimes its gunners behind bulwarks

[old quail]

shame

[torn root]

when they arent close enough to deal with

or you have no nades

[white minnow]

shush

it only happened this second time because i spasmed a right-click in my talent tree and i didn't notice what i took off

[torn root]

VoC? you sound safe enough

[old quail]

don't theorycraft and parkinson's kids

[torn root]

glhf

[ebon umbra]

bulwarks get me killed sometimes just by being bulwarks

those bulwarks in showers are crazy

[torn root]

it annoys me that gunners cant ever kill them

[ebon umbra]

i got killed by shotgunners recently

everyone else on my team was stealth and i didnt expect the triple vanish

[ember folio]

There are a lot of weapons and I really don't wanna go through each of them, so as a quick query:
Which weapon types are good for someone looking to basically practice their FPS aim, and being an effective party member?

[torn root]

hehe

my brother in sigmar

[polar current]

revolvers are good if you want pseudo aim training against specials/gunners

[torn root]

has anyone ever recommended you the colomnus mk5

[sharp ember]

infantry autoguns, the bog standard assault rifles with recoil that encourages burst fire at longer distances

[ebon umbra]

hellbore. maxing ur fire rate with that blessing i forgot what name is is a lil micro that makes u focus less on aim despite having to need it

this is if you try to always max fire rate

[polar current]

really depends on what recoil you're working with

[ember folio]

fire rate aint my big deal, i want one shot one kill headshots

[polar current]

definitely revolvers then

[ember folio]

kantrael m12 was always fun but im under the impression there are better options

[ember folio]

is ADS any good?

[ember folio]

Helbore looks damn good though

[white minnow]

though keep in mind that the revolver has headshot magnetism

[polar current]

didn't know that

[ember folio]

bah, i wanna get the headshots the ol fashion way lol

[white minnow]

agri/graia IAGs should be able to one-shot the trash ranged mobs if that's the main enemy type you care about one-shots for

[ember folio]

is lucius mk3 too unwieldy to pop multiple heads off in relative succession?

[shy current]

hellbore mk3? i find it pretty fun

[wooden lotus]

COLUMNUS MK V SWEEP

[ember folio]

mk V dont have that damage

[wooden lotus]

what

it literally has nothing but damage

[polar current]

It has stupid damage but not per bullet

[wooden lotus]

^

it will chew through anything

[torn root]

bro what?!

[ember folio]

nah fam im lookin for that one shot one kill marksman style

[wooden lotus]

lowest damage barely matters when 1 bullet chews through anything that isnt a crusher

oh

revolver, duh

[ember folio]

i meant per bullet chill

[torn root]

iight say less

[wooden lotus]

revolver or headhunter

[torn root]

dont slander the god

[wooden lotus]

or even plasma

[white minnow]

plasma also has bullet magnetism so that's off the table

[polar current]

headhunters are probably your best bet

or recon lasguns

[wooden lotus]

yeah plasma is more of a big gun than it is a marksman

[ember folio]

helbore or mk12

sound like my tea

i got an okay helbore so

[polar current]

maybe heavy laspistol if you're feeling REALLY spicy

[terse idol]

Lol

Sorry but damn what is that

[ember folio]

the pin

[terse idol]

Yes a single bullet is "low"

Pin

Reeeeee

[ember folio]

i mean its obvious it means per bullet

there was just confusion in that i also meant per bullet

[terse idol]

In a 56 magazine with crit chains like

That's crazy

I'm like

Ah that's weird

Like... yeah? I guess

Someone's gonna see that and be like "wow the bullets have the lowest damage"

"Is bad"

[strange sparrow]

Does out for blood make your range attack get additional 3.5% toughness regen

[terse idol]

Okay I will say, Kantrael Ia

Is a great practice too

[torn root]

i wanna try executioner stance

how much harder is the game without VoC?

[strange sparrow]

Yes

Not that hard with Columnus thou

[white minnow]

ye

all kills

[torn root]

i can see that, 25% more damage that can be refreshed endlessly

[strange sparrow]

If Range attack is 0% toughness regen

does that mean you get 3.5% additional

[torn root]

just no extra toughness, or CC....

[white minnow]

3.5% of your max toughness per kill

[terse idol]

Would recommend infil

Marksmens okay

For trading regular gunners

[torn root]

relentless only works if you kill the target right?

[torn root]

i aint no bitch

lmao

[strange sparrow]

Yea

[torn root]

also dont want to have to take Fast and Kill

[strange sparrow]

That should make my life (easier)

[torn root]

node maks me want to barf

[sharp ember]

it's a flat 3.5% of your max toughness per kill by any method

[terse idol]

Whaaat

[sharp ember]

i like it

[terse idol]

You dont gotta be a bitch to run infil

You run it for extra damage

[tall torrent]

Columnus mk5 is insanely strong rn, probably will get nerfed at some point

[terse idol]

[terse idol]

Per bullet he means

[junior rivet]

based brunt

[tall torrent]

O4B is +3.5% toughness for literally any kill u get

[torn root]

think this will work?

[strange sparrow]

Why does most build ignore it

3.5% over everything seem strong

[torn root]

shut up. yall gunna ruin the game for me AGAIN

chorus alreayd got nerfed lmao

dont touch columnus yet lmao

[strange sparrow]

Take range executioner

Instead of Ogryn

[torn root]

bet, it didnt change my ttk

not by much at least

[tall torrent]

It’s a very good addition to CK but CK still is more generally useful

[sharp ember]

you have to get Vanguard to reach it, which isn't incredibly useful in of itself

while the other paths have Close Order Drill + CK, or Longshot* + Exhil. Takedown

both very nice paths to spend nodes on

[torn root]

oh im frigin dumb

why did i ever think i did more damage to highlited enemies in exe stance

IMAGINE READING!

[terse idol]

YET?!

I'm already dooone

I'm running kantrael ia rn

Fr

[torn root]

?!

[terse idol]

These meta guns getting me tired

[strange sparrow]

I would be running like this instead

Columnus hit head a lot

[tall torrent]

Because veteran has a lot of very strong nodes and O4B is a 2 point investment which most builds can’t afford

Like, if I want to grab that, I’d need to drop demo team and redirect fire which is a pretty massive downgrade in my kit

[strange sparrow]

so Marksman focus is free

[junior needle]

You mean helbores?

[torn root]

To be fair i didnt start using columnus till I got back on vet

so it's only been 5 days now

[strange sparrow]

I mean

if they nerf columnus/plasma/revolver

what would yall play

Hellbore mk2?

[torn root]

ogryn

lmao

[strange sparrow]

I just play my staff psyker

[strange sparrow]

That's fair, considering how much enemy elites I see in mael auric

[tall torrent]

HB2, other 2 IAGs, HH autoguns, bolter, infantry las, laspistol

There’re still a lot of options

[junior needle]

Been using the revolver on my zealot and it fucks

[strange sparrow]

CK just keep giving back a lot of value

[torn root]

oh i dont think you've seen me talk about this

I HATE MARKSMAN FOCUS

[strange sparrow]

Just click heads

you dont stand still like a dumb person

[torn root]

and i love the staamina and toughness from Target Down

[tall torrent]

Columnus mk5 nerf would be so nice, doesn’t even need to be a big one

Nerf crit chain, increase recoil, prob enough

[torn root]

only nerf should be clip size

i think that would be a valid nerf

half the clip size, maybe cut it by 1/3

[tall torrent]

I don’t think the mag size is the problem I think the absurd dps is the problem

[torn root]

the mag size would affect the dps....

literally

[tall torrent]

When u have an 800rpm gun with a small mag it just does not feel good to play

That’s the thing

[tall torrent]

U don’t want to nerf it and make it feel not good to play

[strange sparrow]

Just click weakspot

[torn root]

Stamina for my deadshot tho!

and why do i need to aim?!!?

im triying to be lazy

[junior needle]

Total dps per mag, but per target basis it wouldn't.

[torn root]

lazier than the average player*

[strange sparrow]

play plasma if you wanna be lazy

[torn root]

true

[junior needle]

Unless you're shooting bosses, nothing can survive a mag of columnus with onslaught

[strange sparrow]

brain dead

[tall torrent]

Gun Psyker just needs to give that crit gain 5% toughness node an innate cooldown like shock trooper

[torn root]

should stay that way

[tall torrent]

So gun Psyker can still run laspistol and do well but for high firerate autoguns they don’t become literally invincible

[strange sparrow]

Psyker built-in ghost do be absurd

[torn root]

bros ngl

[tall torrent]

Gun Psyker’s kit is just insane rn

[torn root]

exec stance feels like overkill

lmao

[tall torrent]

People can call it niche all they want but it is broken op

[torn root]

literally feels like i have a marginal diff in mauler kills

[white minnow]

columnus already has the lowest total base damage per mag, and i wouldn't want to bring it down even more

crit strings is one thing to kneecap

[ember folio]

so when was the veteran rework thing

[white minnow]

shouldn't ever be a mechanic

[ember folio]

cuz a lot changed since i last played

[tall torrent]

They gotta nerf Columnus mk5 crit strings, and maybe recoil

I don’t think a hard dps nerf would be that great for it given how that’s sorta its identity rn

[strange sparrow]

Niche because Psyker can do supportive stuff

[white minnow]

i think its recoil is fine since it does lack at a distance already

i'd just tune its base damage/ADMs if needed

[strange sparrow]

which you is kinda stronger

[torn root]

actually kinda noticable, but it's like unnecessary

[tall torrent]

But it needs to be distinguished from the other 2 IAGs

Or buff the recoil on the other 2 IAGs

[white minnow]

it can still have a higher DPS with a minor tweak

[strange sparrow]

9 Seconds of CC in a normal build

[white minnow]

bring it down by some small percentage that still puts it comfortably above the other two in terms of DPS

[tall torrent]

They should give Graia and Agrip better finesse and lower Columnus finesse & crit chains

[strange sparrow]

(Will never play this in auric mael because not fun)

[tall torrent]

Like their current approach to infantry lasguns

MG4 bodyshot spam, rapid fire, high capacity

[white minnow]

they differ in finesse multipliers?

[tall torrent]

Not specifically that but breakpoint wise the infantry lasguns differ a lot

That’s what I mean

MG4 doesn’t get most of the breakpoints and you care a lot less about the breakpoints on it

And it’s more of a bodyshot spam weapon

Columnus 5 should be like that but for infantry autoguns

[junior needle]

Nobody really cares about breakpoints on automatic weapons

[tall torrent]

Lower the headshot dps

Nerf crit chains

[white minnow]

ehhhhhhh i'd keep the finesse multipliers because it's still an IAG

[strange sparrow]

I just want a gun that get up close, pump a lot of lead to people and feel good about it

[tall torrent]

Keep bodyshot the same

[strange sparrow]

Other gun just “strategical”

[white minnow]

the precision smg archetype

[junior needle]

It still has very nutty bodyshot dps

[tall torrent]

Buff the other 2 IAGs in finesse so they get higher value out of headshots

So there’s a variation between rapid fire high dps and going intentionally lower base dps but better headshot scaling

[white minnow]

though that would make their already good weakspot multis nutty

[tall torrent]

I’m down for an agrip mk1 meta

[white minnow]

the other two seem to be in a good if not great place already

[tall torrent]

[white minnow]

the columnus is the one that needs tweaking

[old quail]

really they need to create different finesse archetypes with different crit/weakspot ratios

[tall torrent]

They’re in a decent spot, although I wish they got more improvements to recoil

[old quail]

so that u cant get away with bodyshotting guys with guns like iag on a crit build and reaping most of the benefits of the finesse multi

[tall torrent]

Agripinaa full auto recoil is absurd at range

[white minnow]

counterpoint: i don't want to memorize 3 different finesse multipliers for each family

[old quail]

i mean in general iags need to scale less with crits

[tall torrent]

Graia has a really huge difference between stationary and moving recoil

[torn root]

why care about break points when you literally spit metal death

[white minnow]

its full auto recoil is still considerable but it's better at tap-firing than the columnus

[old quail]

they should all be more oriented towards shooting heads

[tall torrent]

I mean, u don’t have to, u just need to know which is better for headshots and that’s generally enough for full auto weapons

[white minnow]

and the better ADM at range

[old quail]

every finesse weapon in the game having complete interchangeability between critting and headshotting is weird. ideally the multis would be tuned on a per-family basis rather than per-mark

[torn root]

a braced weapon should never be oriented towards hitting heads

why brace if you want to aim accuratley

[white minnow]

and the columnus does have the other advantage of better mobility

[tall torrent]

Oh yea speaking about braced weapons

Can we have the gun not stop shooting when pressing mouse 2 while holding mouse 1

[torn root]

i wanna be able to run while braced, have it be a toggle

there legit isnt a reason why we can run while braced as opposed to ads, it so easy in practice

[tall torrent]

No the issue is trying to brace the gun while firing will literally pause the “firing” part

[torn root]

let me be rambo

[ember folio]

got a new moues (g502x) and bound one button to num / but darktide crashes when i try to bind it

[terse idol]

I used it abit cause I wanted go test exec and focus target with columnus

Pretty fun to mow waves down

[tall torrent]

like, why does it have to do this

[torn root]

its the same for ads

i think the put a bit of realism into the game

gun habits to follow

[strange sparrow]

Braced gun isn't fun overall ngl

[tall torrent]

it makes a bit more sense for ADS but for braced guns where u shoot on the move it really should not need to punish u this heavily

[strange sparrow]

not even factoring the dps and stuff

The concept is just meh in a lot of cases

[torn root]

they just feel kinda ass

[strange sparrow]

You are expecting to mow down entire wave of trash with braced gun

But it just doesnt

[torn root]

im bracing for somethign else?

[tall torrent]

Braced guns need bodyshot dps buff

Like just straight up

[torn root]

yeah like why not allow me to lmao, instead i can mow down hoards in ads

because reasons

[strange sparrow]

like Ogryn braced their gunripper and shred the wave whatever

[tall torrent]

Braced guns are this weird piece of veteran kit where none of the talents you have really play to its strengths

Except maybe duck & dive if you have stripped down on the gun

I’m already sacrificing long range effectiveness and accuracy to be a close quarters shock trooper kind of playstyle

Why does it not have the dps to back up that playstyle

[strange sparrow]

Unironically, Columnus IAG is filling that role

[torn root]

game design is hard when you dont have ppl to play tests

[strange sparrow]

Giving up some long range effectiveness, for some good old CQB headshot spraying

[tall torrent]

That thing just needs to get nerfed

Not a super big nerf, but definitely nerfed

At the very least crit chains on it should just be completely gone

[strange sparrow]

I dont mind about crit chains, not a thing for me

[potent iris]

I have a blast with brautos on zealot

[strange sparrow]

I play it to be running around and killing stuff fast up close and personal

other gun except shredder autopistol doesn't do that

[tall torrent]

For zealot it’s fun

[tall torrent]

Autopistol is pretty bad rn

[strange sparrow]

Yea

I stopped using it after they giga deletus it

[potent iris]

autopistol is rather sad yea

[wooden lotus]

columnus just overshadows the autopistol in every way still

[strange sparrow]

I JUST WANT TO RUN AND MAG DUMP PEOPLE TO DEATH

[torn root]

i shot an auto pistol once and left the game to take it off

no lie

[strange sparrow]

is it so hard

[torn root]

it feels nasty to use

[strange sparrow]

I get to use the old auto pistol psyker

It was glorious

Disgusting Dps

Fun

[midnight totem]

What are good combat knife builds and your favorite knife?

[tall torrent]

For veteran?

[midnight totem]

Yes

[tall torrent]

Take serrated blade (next to 10% melee dmg node)

Mercy killer + uncanny is the meta, although haymaker is not bad for mk6, and executor is good if you’re not gonna bother spending into serrated blade

[tall torrent]

I’m gonna have another hot take on Columnus mk5

I think the dodge distance on it should get nerfed alongside crit chains

[torn root]

im okay with both ideas

it still would delete

dont need to be able to dodge as good as it does now tbh

[tall torrent]

I’m actually ok with double rending Columnus mk5 because that’s so point heavy into rending (usually just for the gun) it deserves to be rewarded

[torn root]

damage at the cost of mobility is a pretty decent trade off

[strange sparrow]

I mean fat shark always overnerfing stuff tbh

[terse idol]

When

Just recon

[midnight totem]

I see, ty

[tall torrent]

Not that many times tho?

[strange sparrow]

I came from VT2

[terse idol]

All the guns are still very good

Except recon

[terse idol]

Whaaat

I don't even remeber any big nerds

Besides like

[strange sparrow]

If they don’t like how people play in a certain way

[terse idol]

Battle wizard

Being able to spam 1 million ults

[junior needle]

Autopistol is pretty bad now, but not as bad as recons

[potent iris]

VT2 balance history is very topsy turvy

[strange sparrow]

MoonBow on release be like

[terse idol]

That was Broooke

[strange sparrow]

Then after that

[midnight totem]

Eventually, Power Fist weapon can only be used with a Las or autopistol

[terse idol]

Now its like

Well its a bow

Its a bow without ammo

[potent iris]

it may as well not exist tbh

[terse idol]

[strange sparrow]

Get people to buy the DLC

Sold the DLC

[terse idol]

The bow was

[strange sparrow]

Nerf the class and weapon to the ground

[potent iris]

the bow was utterly disgusting overpowered yeah

[terse idol]

If yoy bought the bow because toy thought it was good

[strange sparrow]

[terse idol]

That's on you

I don't fuck with that

[strange sparrow]

Nah the class was butchered too

[terse idol]

Thorns kerillian

Also broke as fuuuck

Its reasonable now imo

[strange sparrow]

They released a concept that either broken or just bad

[potent iris]

SotT is still very good lol

wtf

[terse idol]

That's how balance works saddly

I mean yeah wait

Its just lkk

[strange sparrow]

Now no one play her, everyone just go HandMaiden

[terse idol]

Not broken

[potent iris]

she's just not a fuckin' screen deleter like on release

[terse idol]

Brooo whaaat

I dunno fucking on release balance is hard

[strange sparrow]

VT2 Peril system suck so no one like her

[terse idol]

Warrior priest salt

[terse idol]

Huh????

[potent iris]

I feel like we've been playing very different games

[terse idol]

Even

Necromancer Senna

has Peril now

But fuck that's fun

Me as I spawn 20 skeletons

and it actually didn't release broken

They had to buff it abit

[strange sparrow]

You get 3 bar and you get punished for going to certain threshold in hp value

[potent iris]

"peril" (overheating) has been around even since vt1 because it's literally how sienna functions

[strange sparrow]

Then you eventually blow up

[terse idol]

Well yeah

Okay hold on my man

[idle swallow]

Unchained was fun I enjoyed melee mage

[terse idol]

You didn't play Senna

[potent iris]

unchained is still hella fun

[terse idol]

I mained Unchained

Yeah

Peril was a thing

What the

I almost got gaslight

Naw I'm joking

But like

[strange sparrow]

But SoTs?

[terse idol]

It's literally the same mechanic

[strange sparrow]

Your job hold a chaos knight

[terse idol]

Yeah

[strange sparrow]

And that’s all now

[terse idol]

You just do it once

You have options

you have a ranged staff

[potent iris]

SotT's overheat is actually more forgiving than Sienna's too in a lot of ways

[terse idol]

You have INCREDIBLe

CC

Because yeah you can lift multiple

Elites

[torn root]

when they nerfed ammo and potion drops on the ranger

[terse idol]

Like Storm vermin

Or CK's

Or fucking I dunno

[torn root]

in vermintide 2 i got so damned upset

[terse idol]

rot helms

[potent iris]

but yea you just lift priority targets, dunk out a bunch of poison, bada bing bada boom

[hearty panther]

And your team feeds you their THP (which you are buffing)

[shrewd acorn]

chainaxe blessings? Are perks important?

[terse idol]

And you like

Make a bush

[junior needle]

Perks are always important

But also pearls as well

Keep them clutched tightly

[strange sparrow]

I don’t know y’all play the same game as I do with peril system in SoTS after nerf

The poison damage is lacklustre

[terse idol]

Dots have like

Always kinda been meh

Which is fine

They shouldn't need to be anything more

Necromancer Senna dots is just

Play for time

[strange sparrow]

You got CC but you lack all the damage

[hearty panther]

You're support anyway, it's there for the damage bonus

[terse idol]

Like any dots

I think you still had alot of damage

Because you just

Pick and choose your weapon

You were a mage though

And yeah

I mean, it's kinda fun to have a class that isn't purely do damage all the time

If yoou were looking for a class to do damage and didn't get that I can see your disappointment

[hearty panther]

Which is why she sucked on launch cause SotT was 'support' but nuking screens lol

[terse idol]

Frankly though all of Kerlians other careers did damage

[ember folio]

heard something about a weapon customization mod..?

[terse idol]

Yeah

You need to find the darktide modding discord

[strange sparrow]

All of Kerelians player main her to do Damage surprise

[terse idol]

And you'll be able to learn how to mod your game to get the weapon customization mod

[terse idol]

But look

You have 3 other careers

That do damage

It's kinda nice to have like

1 that's more support

🥹

I can see why you didn't like the nerfs SotT's had

Which is fair

But FS clearly didn't like some aspects, like you know

They nerfed 1 tapping bosses

With shade

They're certainly allowed to kinda reel in some of the aspects

To better fit what experience they waant

[strange sparrow]

Also the fact that you can't play SotT in Chaos Wastes because how her ability function and staff

[terse idol]

That may not be in line for the players

[terse idol]

whaaat