veteran-class

[dapper latch]

"its a pve game" is a shit argument

not reading

come up with something good thanks

[umbral scaffold]

But it is a pve game

[old quail]

u will pry suppression immunity from my cold dead mildly agitated hands

[sharp ember]

Minus the fan-fire, the agri revolver is kinda what I envisioned bolt pistol to be like. Full reload, low cleave but good damage on single target

[dapper latch]

these mosquitoes are getting awfully annoying nowadays

[midnight totem]

But I got a 380 boltgun find yesterday

[dapper latch]

they're virutal now?

[umbral scaffold]

Why worry about balance that badly is ai going to complain?

[dapper latch]

damn

[spice wadi]

i dont have to pry shit when u accidentally queue into matches without it sometimes

[vivid bolt]

If you

[serene sage]

people are so inflammatory today

[vivid bolt]

Make everything the player has

Super fucking good

[umbral scaffold]

On god

[vivid bolt]

Game gets boring

[dapper latch]

i feel like bolt pistol would just be

[serene sage]

people, it's the day after christmas

[old quail]

i will bring us into another private lobby

[vivid bolt]

Don’t need much more

[umbral scaffold]

Legit just told him balance isn’t much of a factor we should worry rn

[serene sage]

relax, you don't have to work for the rest of the year

[dapper latch]

agri rev with +cleave

[spice wadi]

1 day i will become a focus target enjoyer

[sharp ember]

They’re equal, but old chsword is easier to build. New one basically has Wrath as a mandatory blessing for cleave

[radiant linden]

People who don't read the game mechanics/talent notes are just depressing to listen to 💀

[spice wadi]

eventually

[dapper latch]

on god bro fr

[old quail]

focus target doesnt add anything to my gameplay loop

so i avoid it

[white minnow]

we've been in a situation where certain weapons were overtuned and that was not a good era of the game

[old quail]

like the plague

[white minnow]

i don't see the need to repeat mistakes

[serene sage]

and FS is great at telling you exactly what they are doing

[umbral scaffold]

Ok then bruh if you want everything good then add newer stuff to counter act jt is all I said

[vivid bolt]

Player power rn is super fucking high so fat shark compensates by just spamming enemies

[serene sage]

definitely no random stealth buffs/nerfs in patch notes at all

[vivid bolt]

Aka

[serene sage]

and the game is bug free

[vivid bolt]

Not a fun game when it’s just beat down more stuff simualtor

It’s not a challenge

[umbral scaffold]

You’re talking to someoen that does though and has being a supporter since beta and alpha the fuck? XD

[midnight totem]

Old chainsword is better against hordes

[spice wadi]

altho at least we dont want things overtuned in a pinning fire autopistol way

[midnight totem]

New is better against elites

[spice wadi]

W + M1

[radiant linden]

That's just the Swedish-english 💀

[old quail]

me look at bad guy with bolter

press button 1 time

Gone.

[vivid bolt]

Being around a long time != Reading and comprehending mechanics

[umbral scaffold]

I can see your pov but sadly auric ended up like that

[umbral scaffold]

Yes

[vivid bolt]

A development plan… no can do.

[umbral scaffold]

Next week

[radiant linden]

Oh right, forgot to mention that I've blocked this person like half a year ago

[sharp ember]

would be neat to get some boltgun variants that trade between cleave or singular damage. Maybe even slightly delayed-explosion bolt rounds, there’s fluff about how it gives heretics a split second to repent before exploding

[radiant linden]

Since it's like that since a while ago

[umbral scaffold]

Prob left you in an damnation mission

[serene sage]

well anyway, my point is, Bolter can be buffed with slight draw speed and nothing would change power level wise except people enjoy the gun a little more

thanks for listening

[spice wadi]

kronk posting

[umbral scaffold]

I promote that

[vivid bolt]

LMAO ain’t no way (not towards you Fox)

[umbral scaffold]

[untold mulch]

I support that

[umbral scaffold]

Shut up

[radiant linden]

It's a bolter, it handles janky for a reason 💀

[old quail]

kronk does not canonically own a bolter

[umbral scaffold]

So you’re telling me strength can’t be improved overtime?

[radiant linden]

What we need is a boltpistol

[umbral scaffold]

No

We already running one basically

[untold mulch]

What we need is insert comically large list of 40k weapons

[spice wadi]

if I had to post a lukewarm take

[serene sage]

it would still handle jankily, we are talking draw speed and a slight buff (I already specified about 10%-20% faster, we can tweak this)
I feel like you are misinterpreting my words

[spice wadi]

they can give us a bolter equiv without massively fucking with the bolter (which is in a good place) by just making the bolt pistol model and releasing it in an update

[radiant linden]

Yes a boltpistol should have a faster draw speed

[sharp ember]

are you warriors continuing to pray for a hellgun/volleygun now that our community manager personally suggested it to the devs for us?

[radiant linden]

Bolter is heavy as shite

[spice wadi]

10% is like unnoticeable tho

[untold mulch]

I NEVER STOP PRAYING

[mortal shore]

There is literally no weapon I want more.

[spice wadi]

20% maybe if you were using it a lot

[serene sage]

honestly lore implication into gameplay purists annoys me

[old quail]

bolter swap time can be completely negated by exe stance still iirc

[midnight totem]

Boltpistol blessing: Encouragement, buff teammates by friendly firing a teammate first

[serene sage]

why isn't psyker over-peril summoning a demon to real space?

why isn't plasma overjeat completely blow up the operator?

[radiant linden]

It's 40k, GW will hunt down developers if they don't implement them 💀

[vivid bolt]

A gun that shoots a round that is roughly 28 kilojoules in energy should handle jank + it’s a huge metal brick

It should take a bit to pull out

It’s literally pulling out a solid brick of steel

[sharp ember]

roll on the d100 table for random results

[untold mulch]

Sigh

[serene sage]

like it's a mild buff and suddenly lore purists are like but muh 50 pound gun can't be drawn fast

[old quail]

the bolter is designed as one of those guns u use as a primary for the most part, idt they're really gonna adjust the swap-time because it's a given part of the weapon

[vivid bolt]

Well 1. It just should take a bit 2. GW exists

[serene sage]

yeah well
a) it's not drawing fast, it's drawing faster, sure, but not fast
b) it's a vidya adaptation

[midnight totem]

It's not even a full size boltgun

[sharp ember]

arbitrator boltgun

[delicate rivet]

Listen, i am a lore purist when it suits me

[sharp ember]

for MEGA COPS

[serene sage]

true

[delicate rivet]

Buff yes, nerf no

[old quail]

i dont really want them to touch bolter swap time because if u want a big gun that has high damage-per-shot but swaps faster u go for a shotgun

[radiant linden]

Don't they have like a powersuit ?

I cant remember

[old quail]

the recoil is still fucking weird

[spice wadi]

i like WS shotgun

[old quail]

with its frame-skips and jitters

if they could make it a bit more sensible that would be a better improvement imo

[spice wadi]

I also like WS deadshot shotgun

[old quail]

but a lot of the recoil and sway in this game goes through various stages of being absolute nonsense

[spice wadi]

I am not crazy

I am not crazy

[midnight totem]

Arbites? No power suit

[sharp ember]

I think most of them just get carapace armor, but battle sisters get power armor and with it maybe slightly bigger bolters

[serene sage]

ws?

[radiant linden]

When it recoils into your face and gives you an concussion

[spice wadi]

Weapon specialist

[vivid bolt]

Tbh the fact that a regular human is firing a bolter with no extra assistance is just absurd in general

[radiant linden]

Right

[serene sage]

Bolter should make you backflip from recoil after everyshot

[vivid bolt]

It’s funny as hell to think about cause

[old quail]

weapon specialist manstopper/flechette lawbringer

mansized kickback

[spice wadi]

u play melee vet and it gives you guaranteed crit to hotswap to kill an incoming special

[old quail]

special

u mean

60 bruisers

[vivid bolt]

A bolter yknow, is 1.5x more boom as a .50 BMG

which has some SIGNIFICANT kick

[serene sage]

it's a human-sized bolter made to be used by normal humans

[spice wadi]

we both know that i cannot be assed to go through the weird fishing for a tier 2 blessing fuck fuck game

[untold mulch]

Ehh, comissars use the bolt pistol one handed

Is just a bolter human sized, it kicks hard

[old quail]

i spent 30k plasteel

man up

[vivid bolt]

Yea it’s absurdly hard

Like wildly hard

[old quail]

u will reach ur 2% gdp spending goal this year

enter the casino

[junior needle]

Mhm, astartes bolters are the ones that can break your arm without power armor. Although because the rounds are rocket propelled, after leaving the chamber, they really shouldn't have absurd recoil.

[spice wadi]

hadron took my defence budget for shovels

and she gave me nothing in return

[old quail]

did you not see the mental breakdown

over shovels

u should have known better

[untold mulch]

Most people that use the Bolt pistol has some slight augments anyways

Some slight augmetic/Genemodding is not rare in the forces that end up using weapons of that level

[spice wadi]

I also had a mental breakdown over shovels

[serene sage]

I think the round itself is propelled out of the barrel like a normal bullet, and the round is heavy

[spice wadi]

also lore wise nerd emoji

[old quail]

we are both victims

[vivid bolt]

It’s more the whole equal and opposite reaction thing

[spice wadi]

the human pattern boltguns r smaller

[vivid bolt]

Each round of a bolter is roughly

[serene sage]

so it should have a lot of kicks regardless

[untold mulch]

Yeah, otherwise it would have shit kinetic energy at close range

[vivid bolt]

The equivalent of firing two .50 BMG rounds

Which is

[spice wadi]

A full size astartes bolt shell is like .75 cal if I remember right

[vivid bolt]

A lot

[vivid bolt]

Yea lmao it’s wild

[untold mulch]

But anyways the fact that there is human versions, say that there is some kind of Recoil Reduction

[vivid bolt]

It’s basically double the energy as a .50 cal shot

[serene sage]

it's weird, apparently the wiki pasted it as .75 cal, but that's also the caliber of SM's bolts

[spice wadi]

And with how boltguns work that .75 cal fires .75 cal propellent to get it going before the rocket motor kicks in

[serene sage]

I think it's actually .50 cal but they just misquoted it

[untold mulch]

The path of establishing facts in 40k weaponry is the path to madness

[vivid bolt]

It’s def not

[spice wadi]

I'd accept whatever rly because of the vast amount of contradicting 40k writers who don't understand military numbers

Some of them say a lasgun hits like a real world .50

[serene sage]

where are the warthunder leakers? can we get them to look into this?

[untold mulch]

Oh you know

1 million patterns, caliber of whatever the writer fucking wants

[sharp ember]

2 words to start a never ending debate:
lasgun recoil

[junior needle]

It is, but the initial charge to exit the barrel is not the primary means of propulsion. It shouldn't have such absurd recoil if it's just to get it out of the tube for the self propulsion to kick in.

[spice wadi]

like if you look at the numbers GW posts

an Abrams would ragdoll a Leman Russ tank

GW does not get military stats

[wanton dawn]

I am a gun and i make logical sense

[serene sage]

1 million space marines total for the entire galaxy,
bruh based on your own trailers, their attrition rate means they can hardly hold a single planet

[untold mulch]

I would say at max charge/specific pattern they should

[spice wadi]

you see dimitri

[untold mulch]

[spice wadi]

when have 30 pounds of ammo hanging from your pistol grip

you will crush the heretics

[radiant linden]

Plus it explodes after penetrating the target

[spice wadi]

for wrist will be size of head

[untold mulch]

No recoil because the gun wants to go down

[vivid bolt]

A beautiful thing really

[sharp ember]

PEAK accuracy with a barrel shorter than the actual cartridges

[untold mulch]

Who need Accuracy when you have Faith in the Emperor

[serene sage]

somehow poxhounds take 4 non crit body shots

[untold mulch]

Can I get an Amen

[radiant linden]

And its shell is made of hardened diamantine

[wanton dawn]

It got a scope so it is accurate

[serene sage]

idk why Bolter has a random low damage vs infested lmao

[spice wadi]

the exploding after it penetrates the target exists to generate a bunch of weirdos who keep posting BOLTER whenever the US military shows off a munition with a delayed fuse

[untold mulch]

Balance element

Bolter has canon strength but it eats Diamantine to use

[serene sage]

like it's just so random for Bolter to sucks against dogs and suicide bombers

of all things

there is no lore or gameplay implicaitons to this

[sharp ember]

a fossil of game-launch weapon damage design i think

[serene sage]

it's just yeah, bolter sucks vs infested, deal with it

[untold mulch]

The reason is

kark you lmao

[spice wadi]

only guns that the ATF would consider using to execute your dog will be good vs poxhounds

[untold mulch]

Same as me with Recon's

[spice wadi]

highly loreful canon take

[radiant linden]

I mean, I got like 100k diamantine, fuck it lets use our own diamantine for buffs 💀

[sharp ember]

everything needed an armor type it was bad at for GAME REASONS

[serene sage]

Revolver though

Plasma though

100%+ vs everything except Carapace

and then you have Rending on Crit to counter Carapace, too

[sharp ember]

back then we had to burn health to vent

[serene sage]

peak balance

[sharp ember]

for revolver

what was revolver’s problem

[serene sage]

it's not one shotting Plague Ogryns, unsable

[wanton dawn]

It was a worse bolter

[sharp ember]

hits like current day bolter yeah

for 5 round cylinder

[radiant linden]

I mean the lasguns are mighty when used by a whole army

[sharp ember]

with 30 less ammo pool

[untold mulch]

Revolver just shooting a 20mm at the rate it did

[sage agate]

imagine the look on my face when i instinctively hit spacebar instead of merging 😭

[untold mulch]

Lasguns are always mighty

[serene sage]

faster draw and better reload though
chamber reload is a buff, not a nerf imo

[untold mulch]

Sometimes you just need more Lasgun though

Hellgun WHEN

[wanton dawn]

P12 bolter had susfire

[junior needle]

How do you get the steam names to show?

[radiant linden]

Like a wall of lasgun amount

[sage agate]

mod

[junior needle]

What mod

I'm going to get it

[sage agate]

\

[serene sage]

I mean yeah, p12 bolt is OP, not arguing that

[junior needle]

[sharp ember]

oh yeah and it had HORRIBLE maniac modifier, like 75% or something

[serene sage]

which one?

[sharp ember]

3 headshot flamer without crits

revolver pre buff

[serene sage]

bolt or revol

oh

well I think bolter also sucked vs maniac

until buff

[wanton dawn]

Not reaaallly

[sharp ember]

i remember i used to call it a spud shooter only meant for stumbling

[old quail]

pre-buff revolver not one-tapping snipers on a headshot without unarmored

legendary

[untold mulch]

Then post buff Revolver

Imma fight Nurgle

[wanton dawn]

Bolter could reach Os on mutie

Smth smth pinning fire

[sharp ember]

post-buff revolver would’ve saved cadia

[serene sage]

okay let me rephrase, bolter used to have lower damage modifier against maniac

[umbral scaffold]

Your dad . I got the milk now son

[serene sage]

how about that?

[untold mulch]

Just 4 revolver vets magdumping the Blackstone Fortress

[serene sage]

4 kickback ogryns mag dumping Abaddon

he would actually feel it

[wanton dawn]

Sure, whatever

[sharp ember]

vindicare assassins just use elongated revolvers with Handcannon + Surgical

[serene sage]

yeah why would they even bother with a bloody exitus rifle

just use a godroll revolver

[wanton dawn]

Am sure there is a gun in w40k lore that is taller than its length

[crude ermine]

Alright, been having fun with the numerous IAGs

[sharp ember]

it is said vindicare snipers can wait weeks before taking a shot, that whole time they’re building surgical stacks

[crude ermine]

My favorite being the agri mk 1

[untold mulch]

[phone]% crit

Still doesn't one shots the target causing a 10+year siege

[wanton dawn]

Hitreg fail

[serene sage]

also the absolute state of consistency when 4 grey knights can struggle against 8 cultists in W40k Chaos Gate
and a random reject eat them up for breakfast

[untold mulch]

Vraks origin was hitreg bugging out

Poor Vindicare

Got the lag spike

[serene sage]

I think instead of us asking for SoB or SM supports, they should call for our help

[untold mulch]

A Chapter asking support

the support, 4 crackheads

[serene sage]

and they clean house

[untold mulch]

Before they can even say bullshit

those 4 crackheads just opened a hole in the enemy lines

[wanton dawn]

Thats AURIC OPERATIVE CRACKHEAD to you

[untold mulch]

My friend shitposting yesterday

Steel Legion helmet, but with no armor, only the shirt and the pants

Walking while being madumped by the volley gun, wit hthe Shovel in his hand

[wanton dawn]

Gimme those special ammo

[serene sage]

then said crackheads proceeds to clean house the chapter's platsteel and diamantine reserve

[sharp ember]

I really wish we had npc support for certain setpieces, just for decoration to show we’re helping in a war

[serene sage]

i bet they would grab SM weapons too if they can lmao

Blood Ravens have nothing on those crackheads

[sharp ember]

best we can do is a leman russ line that doesn’t shoot backspawn specials

[untold mulch]

The Ogryn picks the holy relic of the chapter

uses it as a club

[serene sage]

[crude ermine]

Kinda bitter I dodged perfectly against a trapper and still got netted even though it flew right past me

Thankfully my teammates understood priority when it came to netted guys

[sharp ember]

server hitbox registration moment

[wanton dawn]

I am mad now. FU

[crude ermine]

It's only ever on the new map my game kinda stutters and stuff

The petrebution

Green ball

Meth

[serene sage]

the what?

[sharp ember]

monster energy factory

[wanton dawn]

Ah, the meth lab

[mortal shore]

Stealing that for my profile, yoink.

[sharp ember]

for some reason on that map one mission i had severe framerate drop if i looked a certain direction

[crude ermine]

Perturbation the one where you destroy the stim meth stuff in the 2nd carnival map

[sharp ember]

so i had to fight with my back turned away from that direction whenever i could

[crude ermine]

Happens to me too

To the point where I basically can't play if it's in the right spot

So I have to restart

[serene sage]

What GPU are y'all running and what resolution?

Mine gets frame dips in a few sections as well

But I'm not sure if it's the shitty HDD load time or the GPU

[finite imp]

3080ti 4k

[serene sage]

You can run this game 4k with that?

[finite imp]

Yes. Turn off ray tracing

[serene sage]

Wouldn't you get like 60frames?

[finite imp]

Oh noooo 60 framesssss :c

No I get more than that I think

Ray tracing is ass. Barely any visual improvement for heavy vram usage

3080ti is a good card

[south garnet]

I'm gonna laugh when I install the 4090 I just ordered and it barely improves DT at all

[finite imp]

Ray tracing is just an underdeveloped tech that anyone with an RTX card thinks they need on when you literally do not

And you're just wearing your card out making it chug

Also 60 fps is fine with me but I have mine capped at 144 due to my screen. It's a 144hz monitor. If you're thinking you're cool because you have more frames than hz on your monitor no your dumb and making your card work harder for no reason

[unique anvil]

Hey guys so I'm making a build that's like a zoomy knife and pistol vet

[serene sage]

I mean mine runs at like 110 ish fps on 1440p

[unique anvil]

Any recommendations for pistols?

[finite imp]

What gou

[quasi socket]

224 frames locked to a 60hz monitor lol

[finite imp]

Gpu

[serene sage]

6800XT

no RT of course

[south garnet]

I don't think I've ever hit 144 frames on DT in actual gameplay

Ever

on a 3090ti

[finite imp]

I hate the interface on AMD cards but that's just me

[serene sage]

but I dips to 90 often enough to notice with bad frame time

[serene sage]

nah Adrenaline is leagues better than Nvidia Experience

[finite imp]

You also have to account that darktide is still not super optimized.

[south garnet]

but I also don't turn my graphics down to dogshit levels just to pull an extra 20-30 frames, so

[serene sage]

I said so having used both

[finite imp]

Opinions

[south garnet]

pretty much as long as I'm over ~110 I'm happy, below 90 I get annoyed

[slim shard]

Quick poll: Does anyone actually like motion blur?

[finite imp]

As have i

[serene sage]

fair but mine is better

[finite imp]

NO. NOBODY LIKES THAT SHIT.

[south garnet]

if they do they're wrong

[slim shard]

I have no idea why it's always enabled by default in games

[finite imp]

Immediately every game I fire up for the first time

[slim shard]

like bruh

[serene sage]

I generally turn it off except in a few certain games

[quasi socket]

every time i see it, i turn it off

[finite imp]

I go and turn off things like bloom and motion blir

[serene sage]

like motion blur in racing is legit

[south garnet]

whoa you're tellin me I can make my screen blurry as shit AND it costs processing power?

sign me up!

[serene sage]

it adds to the cinematic experience

[radiant linden]

Only if its the outcome from drinking alcohol

[slim shard]

strangely based take

[finite imp]

Film grain is ok in some games

[quasi socket]

i want to see the game, not a f*cking water color painting when accuracy maters

[south garnet]

this is true, anything movement-based, I could see an argument for mirror's edge or similar as well

[serene sage]

also is Darktide, like, really foggy?

[slim shard]

clean your glasses

[serene sage]

i'm not talking about the literally in game smoke

[finite imp]

Plus guess what. Your eyes will naturally cause the blur when an image is moving and you have to reprocess it. There's zero reason to compound that

[serene sage]

like generally it's just grey

[finite imp]

You're going blind brother. Cataracts. That explains why you think AMD is better

[serene sage]

i guess it's kinda grim and dark

[serene sage]

naw Adrenaline is better than whatever 2000s UI Nividia is using

i'm not arguing about the cards

im talking about the software experience

[quasi socket]

i noticed cycling monitor presets (racing/rpg/fps) would change it up for me. rpg had most depth/saturation for color but fps trying to turn it into bland colorless soup

[serene sage]

I think the blur is only when things are in actually motion, screen motions are technically not motions but pixels lighting on/off in sequence

but im not an othamalisosldsagy (eye doctor) so idk

[south garnet]

I've been replaying all the halo games through the master chief collection the last few days on legendary, since I never played any past ODST (difficulty is busting my FUCKING balls by the way on 1, holy hell just annoying) and it's striking to me how the OG halo CE just looks better.
Like, less visual noise and overmodeling/overtexturing, but also the more cohesive style and much more definitive atmosphere to each area

[finite imp]

Right which causes the illusion of motion

Everyone is gay but me also

[serene sage]

ophthalmologist

[finite imp]

But also me

[serene sage]

there, I googled it

[south garnet]

Like the remaster is obviously technically "better" but it's just uglier and worse in basically every way. New sound effects are fucking dog water compared to the OGs too, WHAT DID YOU DO with the PUNCH?

[radiant linden]

💀

[south garnet]

Foley team went on vacation or something

[fossil basalt]

OG Halo CE is the toppest of video game tiers tho lol

[serene sage]

never played a single Halo game

so dunno

[south garnet]

Also the remaster tricks you by making you think cover is there when it isn't, and isn't there when it is because the collision doesn't always match the new meshes

[finite imp]

They're not great

[south garnet]

They're very slow

[finite imp]

The levels are long and drawn out the combat is slow

The story is meh

Hard to get into

It's like bro trust me bro it gets good after the 300th hour bro trust me be0

Bro

[south garnet]

The story, of what there is, is great. At least if you're the type to get into marathon theorycrafting

[fossil basalt]

If it's taking you 300h to go anywhere in a halo game, lmao

[finite imp]

Just go play Yakuza games if you want a long slow story

[south garnet]

The gameplay is also really solid with some great setpieces, but it is most definitely slow - and particularly in the first game you do not have a whole lot of options to spice things up on a moment to moment basis

[mortal shore]

^

[south garnet]

The halo games are relatively short lol

[serene sage]

Halo is good because it's the only good, or first good, FPS on Xbox when it first came out and has been riding that high ever since.

[mortal shore]

Still phenomenal, at least 1-2-ODST-3-Reach. 4-5-Infinity are... Less so.

[quasi socket]

relatively short, but longer campaign than COD franchise

[serene sage]

Hot take from a guy who never played it

[south garnet]

The console influence on gameplay definitely shows, but it holds up as a shooter of its time

[fossil basalt]

Asking CoD for a campaign is like asking Fatshark for things from their old games

[south garnet]

Like on PC, it's fine

[fossil basalt]

It just isn't a good idea

[finite imp]

Shame there's no such thing as Xbox exclusives anymore because of Microsoft and an entire generation of console consumers pretty much got rug pulled in that aspect, though Microsoft knows buyers remorse is a bitch and nobody is actually gonna complain

[mortal shore]

The train wreck still lives in my heart.

[south garnet]

I haven't played anything past ODST so I'm interested to see where it went with Reach and 4

[finite imp]

Literally no reason to buy an Xbox if you have a pc

[south garnet]

I do get the feeling I'm not gonna enjoy them, but

[mortal shore]

Reach is a phenomenal send off.

4 is...

[serene sage]

PC gaming is cary to a lot of peole

[mortal shore]

The beginning of a very, very, VERY tragic end.

[serene sage]

not everyone knows what Steam is

[fossil basalt]

Reach really was the high point for Halo imo

[serene sage]

consoles is literally plug and play
if you want stuff you go out and buy a disc (or a code nowadays)

[finite imp]

If your sales are based on ignorance then youre kind of a scammer lol

[south garnet]

I haven't played reach but if it beats out 3 I'll be impressed

[serene sage]

well I pay people to change my oil I am ignorance, and lazy

[finite imp]

Halo 3 was good because of forge mode

[mortal shore]

Anyways, we're supposed to be talking about Darktide! And uh, I wanna get back to the topic of shotguns. 'cause I wanna try one (as I have said on here before).

[south garnet]

Forge mode definitely extended its lifespan yea

[finite imp]

I stopped doing that ages ago after I learned how to do it. It's a satisfying experience if you ever try it

[fossil basalt]

Vets casually talking about first person shooting lol

[serene sage]

try the agri

it's the only good shotty

[south garnet]

When I talk about halo I pretty much only speak about the single player campaigns - the multiplayer was obviously great for their respective time periods, with friends, and etc. but so are some real dogshit games

[serene sage]

no i won't listen to your niche whatever kantrael or law build

they suck

just run agri shotty

[fossil basalt]

Agri is literally a worse revolver but go off

[south garnet]

CoD, mario party and super smash are pretty much the series I refer to exclusively in the multiplayer sense

[serene sage]

true but is there any reason not to run revolver or plasma ever except for fun?

[finite imp]

Are eggplants any good

[south garnet]

lol

[serene sage]

grilled eggplants are lit

[fossil basalt]

Because they're hyper niche elite removal guns and leave everything else on the field

[finite imp]

Wat

[fossil basalt]

Be a real vet, take a knife and a lasgun lets go

[south garnet]

A wild vet seen in mourningstar

[finite imp]

I'll give them a shot. Do they actually taste like eggs

[mortal shore]

Will do.

[serene sage]

no they taste like hmm idk what they taste like

but they are good, especially if it's slightly charred

it's a little slimy though so if you hate that then it's bad

then again eggs can be slimy as well depending on how you cook em

[odd sparrow]

Agri is quite nice because it works at all ranges. I like to pair it with VoC + tag build. So you snipe gunners and specials while tagging chunkier targets for your team to clean

[serene sage]

works at all ranges*.
as long as the range is fewer than 30m, ideally fewer than 20m.

[sage agate]

i beg to differ!

[mortal shore]

Really I just want somethign to switch to that isn't a revolver when I run my weapon specialist setup.

[serene sage]

beg

[sage agate]

i will

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-squarepants-begging-pretty-please-beg-on-your-knees-pray-for-mercy-gif-26344462

[serene sage]

okay I trust you now

[sage agate]

i dont really use veteran shotgun, but on zealot i use the kantrael and snipers at 50m are only 3ish shots

tho agri slug is funny

[serene sage]

snipers at 50m are only 3ish shots
my guy...

[sage agate]

:^)

[odd sparrow]

Ok theres like a couple of places that are open enough for the range to matter. But even then its decent with regular shots, and with slug you can still snipe from extreme ranges

[sage agate]

i only say that bc i hate the low damage of the agri shotgun

i NEED to one shot ragers at 10m 😭

[dire olive]

Load a slug

[serene sage]

mine one taps headshot gunners, shotgunners
one taps dreg ragers with crit headshot

[odd sparrow]

Big true

[quasi socket]

my favorite thing about ragers and mutants is an ogryn rock removing their conciousness from existance as their corpse rag dolls another 30 meters at mach jesus into a wall

[sage agate]

ah btw whats the recommended caxe people se

[serene sage]

idealy shotgun range is like 10m-20m

[sage agate]

i had my run with tac axe and wanna try out caxe

[serene sage]

point blank shotgun is not that great imo

[sharp ember]

rashad is top dog because of Finesse stat, but antax isn't far behind if that's what you got

[dire olive]

If you want a funny way to play get the weapon customisation mod and throw a scope on the agri for the true single shot sniper experience

[odd sparrow]

For agri its true,

[sage agate]

tyty

[strange grove]

antax also has better special attack, but I still prefer rashad

[sharp ember]

achlys caxe lacks a niche

it has almost entirely vertical strikes, bad for brutal momentum cleaving

[serene sage]

just take whatever and grab brutal momentum, there are a few breakpoints but generally as long as you one shot on head poxwalkers, moaners, you are okay

[serene bough]

Kantrael shotgun is my go to

[dire olive]

It has the horizontal heavy

[sharp ember]

while lacking any greater damage to compensate

[dire olive]

Achlys

[serene sage]

yeah

[dire olive]

Buuuut meh

[sage agate]

:()

[serene sage]

Headtaker and unarmored

And you're set

[sharp ember]

workable, would keep stamina

[serene sage]

Easy rashad

[sage agate]

limbsplitter isnt the funny?

[serene sage]

Headtaker lets you hit breakpoint for BM

BM breakpoints are very important

[sharp ember]

limbsplitter is kind of a meme, not reliable because it resets on any hit

spike shovels get more value from it

[sage agate]

it would be mad funny if it was just 5s cd

[serene bough]

Not a fan of spike shovels

[sharp ember]

that's what i was hoping it would be, a constantly rolling cooldown, but alas

[serene bough]

Standard issue poke is the best

[sharp ember]

mk7 spike shovel rips out slower than the mk3 shovel for some reason

makes it a lot harder to use against multiple enemies

[odd sparrow]

Wow thats supremely shit

[sharp ember]

yeah, basically 1 buffed hit and nothing else for the entire time you're in melee

[serene bough]

Uncanny is a must for the shovel

Lately ive swapped decimator for take a swing

[fossil basalt]

@hard wraith this un?

We still waitin like

[sharp ember]

didn't like take a swing when i tried it

but uncanny strike is top notch

[hard wraith]

oh yeah

that's the one

[serene bough]

If you bring trench fighter you can get 3 heavies with the buff before its gone

[fossil basalt]

I like a decimator+take a swing personally

[serene bough]

Primarily why I use it

You must be converted to uncanny strikes

You'll never go back

[fossil basalt]

If I'm doing shovel I don't usually need armor clear

They're getting staggered out of any threat anyways

Haha shovel go poke

[serene bough]

It helps the most with the bruisers

And I suppose the occasional flak rager

[south garnet]

there are still people that think they can 'sneak' extra med charges apparently

[sage agate]

indeed, it was much too large to be called a sword

[wooden lotus]

popsicle

[short wigeon]

Now that’s a knoife

[crude ermine]

Didn't know my bullets gravitated towards any heretic in sight

[crude fiber]

Me taking a tick of barrell fire damage so I can slurp up all the juicy medicae

[wicked cobalt]

anyone want to do co-op with me names jimmy and age is 14

[crude fiber]

Controller moment

[wicked cobalt]

its more fun to play with people that i can talk mto

[crude ermine]

It only works with these rifles

No luck with my bebe (the revolver)

[crude fiber]

That's crazy lmao

[shadow aurora]

w h a t

How

[crude fiber]

They're using controller so the game "helps" them aim

Heretic seeking bullets I mean

[shadow aurora]

I use controller thats never happened to me...

[crude ermine]

Only works with iags

No brace

No plasma or revolver, only the iags get these magnetic power

[crude fiber]

I'm assuming anyway

[crude ermine]

I have aim assist turned off actually

Turned it off a while back

[shadow aurora]

That isnt what aim assist does anyway

[untold flame]

Revolver magically increases head hitboxes

Makes me feel like an absolute gamer so im all for it

[inland orchid]

From what I’ve heard it got multiple types of settings for the aim assist so idk

Maybe there is a aim assist that’s more than just a assistance

[sharp ember]

incredible faith in the emperor to bend bullets into the enemy

[crude ermine]

All aim assist settings are off

[sharp ember]

does controller have sticky crosshair assist options like typical fps games

[inland orchid]

Oh there was videos for examples?

My fault for the disrespect Luna I didn’t look at the videos when typing just the words

[crude ermine]

You're fine

[crude ermine]

I don't think so

And if so I definitely don't have it on because I fucking hate the feeling of sticky crosshair assist

Slows down my pace

[sharp ember]

trying to quickly turn and shoot a trapper but your crosshair sticks on a poxwalker in the way

[crude ermine]

Especially when running the** revolver** it blows harder than someone from Los Angeles, I'd rather just aim myself and not stick to something like a honeybun left out in the sun

[ebon cove]

Should I buy this?

[junior needle]

Thanks hardon

[inland orchid]

Free tier 4 if u don’t like the axe after trying it out imo

[junior needle]

Tac axes are generally reviewed quite poorly, but that is a salvageable roll

[ebon cove]

@inland orchid @junior needle Thanks

[inland orchid]

Np glad to have helped a lil with my opinion

[stray storm]

Worth a purchase? I love its stats

[inland orchid]

Ya not too bad perk wise so if it don’t got ur preferred chainsword blessings it should be easy to swap it out

Bottom roll mobility too so I can see why u love the modifiers

[muted prairie]

I had the strangest dream. The rejects were a rock n roll band, and the vet yelled "GET IN THERE, MAKE EM SCREEEAAAM" to hype them up before a big show. What could this mean?

[real lintel]

Why is the 58% damage one higher damage than the 62% damage one?

[fossil basalt]

Higher first target+pen?

[real lintel]

Isn't the damage shown the average base damage? Pen and 1st are multipliers.

[serene bough]

Yes

[real lintel]

So why is the weapon with lower damage% showing higher base damage?

[midnight totem]

aw yeah, epic game on work wifi during lunch

joined into a high int damnation in progress

[serene bough]

Must be bc of first target

[sharp ember]

yeah, First Target stat

[serene bough]

The multipliers apply to the number you see on the weapon

[real lintel]

But that only applies to one target if I'm hitting multiple enemies, why would that change the base damage?

[serene bough]

First target is the damage you hit on the first target in a cleave

[real lintel]

That's goofy as hell >.<

[serene bough]

I.e. more single target damage

Im not entirely sure how the math works out

[sharp ember]

may as well punch it into the darktide calculator rq to see if it affects 2nd+ cleave targets

1 sec

[real lintel]

So it's something that doesn't always apply, and only applies at most half of the time.

That's if every swing hits only two targets.

[serene bough]

Technically it applies to every hit

Its just doing more damage to the first thing it hits

[real lintel]

It only applies if I hit multiple targets, if I only hit one target it doesn't trigger.

[sharp ember]

first target always works, please ignore that description

[real lintel]

Translation is hard, I guess :/

[sharp ember]

but yeah, calculator says it does nothing to additional targets in a cleave

but it will always improve your damage on your first target

[real lintel]

Thanks ^.^

[serene bough]

It is kind of a weird way to define it

[sharp ember]

i have the same issue with Collateral stat

the description talks about suppression and stuff but the actual scaling stats may not even include suppression

[broken spade]

descriptions in this game are just bad

a lot of the time they don't include shit so we don't know if things are bugged or if descriptions are wrong

[real lintel]

Or both xD

[sharp ember]

it would we wonderful if stat arrays showed the cleave depth of weapons

or even base crit chance

[real lintel]

It's about |----| that much.

[sharp ember]

and total crit chance

[real lintel]

I think crit chance is based on class, right? And they're all base 5%?

[broken spade]

some weapons have an additional base crit chance

[real lintel]

Did not know that

[broken spade]

mostly its ranged weapons that are different
also i think combat knife has +20% crit chance by default

autoguns were -2% i think

so like you'd end up with 3% crit with an braced auto and no other modifiers

[serene bough]

People say vet has 10% base crit but idk if that's accurate

[sharp ember]

i think vets have a innate chance of +10%

[broken spade]

vets used to have +10% before talent tree update

i have no idea if it was changed. a lot of base stats changed after that patch

[sharp ember]

there's actually a mod that displays these hidden stats and stuff

i really should install it

[serene bough]

Gameslantern just says 5%

[sharp ember]

yeah it's likely it was changed with the talent tree update

[serene bough]

There is a crit chance node to get upto 10%

[umbral garnet]

Lads, I want to try the new Big Iron

[serene bough]

But otherwise I think default is 5%

[umbral garnet]

Any suggested blessings and perks

[broken spade]

Do vets still take 2x toughness damage while sprinting or did that get removed too?

[sharp ember]

that's gone too

no more silliness

[sharp ember]

Handcannon still, and either Surgical or Crucian roulette

[junior needle]

The xiig desperately needs wrath and you ideally want rampage on it as well, that's looking like a 4/4 scuff

[sharp ember]

for perks Maniac and probably Flak

Unyielding might not be a bad idea if you use it for boss blasting

[junior needle]

Surgical is subpar on the new one because it only applies to the first shot

[umbral garnet]

Me new XIIIg is a horde shredder.

Fucking love it.

Holds up well on Maulers and Crushers too

[midnight totem]

Been using xiig without any cleave bonuses, holds up just fine against hordes

[umbral garnet]

I have Wrath 4 and Rampage 3 on mine. Rampage is a bit hard to trigger until I put Wrath on it.

[midnight totem]

I have shredder 3 and bloodletter 4

[umbral garnet]

The guys with unarmoured heads and flak bodies were cockblocking me.

[midnight totem]

I can replace with shredder 4 if I ever find one, otherwise it has 25 flak and 5 crit

At base, that's 15 percent crit with my veteran's talents I think. Goes up to 32 with max shredder. Shredder 4 would take it to 35 percent crit

[junior needle]

Yeah that's the thing, because it's lights for horde clear you need a cleave bonus to activate rampage

[tight orbit]

some dude on the forums said cleave blessings are a waste on the xiig as its light attacks have a max limit on cleave targets

[sharp ember]

seems you just use it raw if you have no intention of using Rampage

[midnight totem]

Rev light takes out all ragers, and there's a very specific way the Rev can take out maulers in one shot

Rev push melee on a Mauler's body can kill

[old quail]

according to the bp calculator this is wrong, none of the moves on the xiiig are target capped

[cerulean void]

unknown here, that was the problem chain weapons previously had.
would be crazy if they just slapped it onto the new model in pmuch the same update they moved it off the other two

[old quail]

there's some different finesse modifiers and first target damage on the different lights

but they all bottom out around 50 damage for unarmored

[umbral garnet]

I am no number cruncher so I just go with what feels good.

[old quail]

30 for flak, 62 for infested

[umbral garnet]

And the XIIg feels fucking good

[old quail]

tl;dr wrath is good on new chainsword

[tight orbit]

yeah sorry, i looked back at the post and it looks like he was talking about the XV Eviscerator, not the new chainsword, my mistake.

[sharp ember]

what that forum poster was talking about was probably how it has trouble activating Savage Sweep/Rampage on anything but the thinnest of trash mobs

[old quail]

ah

[sharp ember]

oh lol

it is in a similar situation i think

[strange sparrow]

19th Psword in, still no Pcycler

[sharp ember]

with horde-clear lights and strikedown heavies

[strange sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/my-descent-into-madness-is-complete-madness-going-insane-insanity-mental-gif-22579930

[old quail]

the new evis does have target damage caps of 4, but ppl overstate this a lil cuz oldvis is similarly target capped on every move besides the heavy 1

and a lot of people would do light spam or push attack, or attack rotations where you do a heavy, 2 lights, and a push attack

[tight orbit]

i usually just push-attack-heavy 1 rinse repeat personally

thats generally the limit of my creativity combos wise!

[serene sage]

People one shotting Crushers left and right.
This dude:

[tight orbit]

I had to make another veteran character to finally get my Power Cycler! the same day i got it, I also got that t4 energised cleave blessing, it was quite ironic, when it rains it pours. I'm thinking of trashing that veteran and and starting a new Psyker character for similar reasons.

[tight orbit]

"the bolt gun sucks, I'm American so that makes me really sad" haha

[tall torrent]

Could just be a malice-only player, u never know

[umbral garnet]

Yikes lmfao

[midnight totem]

The Emperor was not with him

[serene bough]

Mid tier bait

[serene sage]

Sure but if I'm playing Malice only I would focus more on improving my skills and gears instead of making a post complaining about balance (and then added "been playing since beta" as if that lends me any credibility while actually just showcasing how much of a skill issue I have).

[serene sage]

seems genuine enough tbh, then again the "cutting down the horse" in the end seems a little sus
then again again S is right next to D so could also be a genuine typo

[tall torrent]

Everything he mentioned sounded like exclusively a chainsword problem lol

[serene bough]

Can't imagine it being serious considering player power has consistently increased over the year

[serene sage]

most likely scenario, they played a little during the beta, dropped it off for a year
just got back on recently, was rusty with a bad chainsword, bodied by the game
proceeded to make a Reddit post

[drifting oak]

I mean

if you take a lot of the "trap nodes"

in the tree, you're gonna be missing a ton of things vet-vets take for granted

like if you don't take regenning grenades you're pretty much trolling

they are a class feature

[tall torrent]

“Boltgun sucks” is a statement I can get behind
Without a proper build & introduction to how it’s meant to be used rn, it’s going to feel horrible

[drifting oak]

boltgun sucks objectively without a mod for a real sight

trying to aim with the center post that has no contrast

not even a dot

[serene sage]

Boltgun is a "delicate" weapon that needs a little minmaxing, that much I can agree.

[drifting oak]

like I "only" have an overlay i use in a ton of games and all it does is put a colored dot in the very center of my screen but that helps so much with the bad irons

but if I didn't have that white dot

[serene sage]

That said, there are multiple ways to make it hit breakpoints, but you do need to test

[drifting oak]

I literally would have no clue what I was shooting at

because the sight is so dark

[serene sage]

I used to have the reflex sight

I hated it, base iron sight from now on

[tall torrent]

And if Boltgun & flamer are all he used then yea the draw-to-fire speed is going to suck, period

[serene sage]

can't undone habbits ig

[drifting oak]

the reflex sights that are in the mod are a little over-busy

[hollow ibex]

The stupid sway on it is what annoys me the most

[drifting oak]

all of them

[drifting oak]

oh yeah having a crosshair mod helps a ton with that too

because when your sight sways it doesn't actually shoot where the sight is

[hollow ibex]

I can live with irons and even the draw time

[serene sage]

are you using Determined?

[midnight totem]

What are you guys talking about, you don't have an augments to line up your boltgun's sights with your eyes?

[drifting oak]

it actually shoots where the center of your screen is

[serene sage]

Bolter gets suppressed very heavily without Determined

it's near unplayable without the talent if you want to ADS

[drifting oak]

no I think he just means the natural sway when you walk and the weird sway it does between shots

all of which is "fake" btw

[hollow ibex]

I find it fine with deadshot

[drifting oak]

and again it doesn't sohot where your sight is

it shoots where the "true center" of your screen is

[hollow ibex]

Yeah that and the recoil recovery animation

[serene sage]

I got myself into the habit of stop and shoot

[drifting oak]

yeah but if you have to wait for the sway to fully recover you're missing out on a ton of potential rate of fire

[serene sage]

it's good practice for most guns tbh

[drifting oak]

seriously if you get a crosshair mod you can pop pop pop with the bolter

not even the weapon customization mod, that stilll doesn't help with sway

you just need a white dot where you're actually aiming

suddenly the bolter can hit things

and you're not watching your gun wave around on your screen

[serene sage]

hmm ill try

then again im already hitting things with it

[drifting oak]

it's really noticeable with jumpshots

because your jump shot is a perfect up and down of course

but the animation will have your sight/gun sway all over the damn place left and right

[wraith locust]

are you using the ads reset

[deep fable]

any tips to make executioners stance competitive?

[wraith locust]

its alr competitive

[deep fable]

wanna try my hand at a boss killing bolter build

[serene sage]

being better at melee means you are better at exec stance

[wraith locust]

^^

VOC is a crutch

a crutch that i use sometimes as well

but it is a crutch

lol

[drifting oak]

what weapons actually benefit from exec stance tbh

[serene sage]

also imo, you need a good melee weapon if you want to use exec stance

[wraith locust]

rapid fire

[drifting oak]

like the big thing is if you can hit heads with a lasgun

[deep fable]

you have more ammo then but doesnt unequipping ranged nullify ability

[drifting oak]

you don't need exec stance

[wraith locust]

most single shot high dmg doesnt need it for bps

[drifting oak]

the helbore doesn't need exec stance at all

[serene sage]

I honestly think every, more damage is good

[drifting oak]

plasma bolter, same

[slow spade]

Exec stance simply needs to give weapon projectiles assail tracking

[serene sage]

is there anything that wants Exec Stance more than VoC? prob not

[drifting oak]

like what

if I OHK heads with the mg12 lasgun, even elite gunner heads

[terse idol]

Oh I used my Kantrael Ia yesterday with focus and I gotta say, feels good

[deep fable]

what does competitive mean then lmao

[drifting oak]

is the extra edge from exec stance going to really help me on what ragers and ogyrns?

[deep fable]

english bruh you speak it

[terse idol]

Finally I don't feel bad shooting at multiple gunners, like I would have with my plasma gun

[hollow ibex]

i do sometimes, but yeah it's the best way to use bolter

[drifting oak]

ragers that i'd rather just like

knock over with VOC anyway

[midnight totem]

I mean, exec stance is objectively, very good

Extra damage

[serene sage]

Bolter, Shotty, Columnus (if you are into the Deadshot Columnus meme), Plasma, Revolver, Vraks

[terse idol]

Columnus 😌

[hollow ibex]

i don't even care it's a crutch, too good not to use

[terse idol]

Not really but it's funny

[drifting oak]

it's straight up unnecessary on so many good weapons though

[midnight totem]

Extra headshot damage, outlining targets, being able to extend its duration

[terse idol]

Outlining targets is alright

[drifting oak]

bolter, plasma, revolver, HHautos, mg12 las, helbores all don't need it at all

[terse idol]

It can also not outline

Reapers

So its trippy

[serene sage]

it's fine, I don't hate it, I do think it should refresh some amount of toughness on use though

[drifting oak]

the utility of pumping brauto damage is fairly minimal i feel?

[terse idol]

Yeah those are already high damaging accurate weapons

[serene sage]

doesn't have to be full, but maybe 50%

[terse idol]

This is why it wants, Marksmens focus

For the toughness gain

[deep fable]

toughness gain on normal kills

[terse idol]

And people are allergic to marksmens focus

[serene sage]

well if you want easy and reliable, just grab VoC lol

[deep fable]

like normal chaff

[drifting oak]

which one's marksman's focus again

[serene sage]

the skill floor is lower

[terse idol]

The left most keystone

[midnight totem]

Looking into a dark room or a room already filled with flying lasbolts and flames, executioner stance instantly let's me pick out the priority ranked targets with ridiculous ease

[drifting oak]

oh left keystone

[slow spade]

Could make it so exec stance lowers aggro

[drifting oak]

yeah that's another "what weapon actually needs this"

[terse idol]

Iii don't think so

[hollow ibex]

that would be nice actually

[terse idol]

Then it competes with Infil

[deep fable]

you can kill faster

[drifting oak]

if exec stance gave you camoflauge it would be insane

[terse idol]

And if you ever have 2 vets

[hollow ibex]

it doesn't have to be a 90% reduction like the infil

[slow spade]

Never said -90%

[deep fable]

time to kill is still a thing

[terse idol]

You're gonna just step on each other's toes

Oh

[drifting oak]

bro what is it with people in this channel who don't understand breakpoints

[bitter turtle]

It's not a crutch, it's just the best option atm

[drifting oak]

you kill so much shit in one shot

[terse idol]

What would you suggest?

[drifting oak]

more damage = still one shot kills lol

[terse idol]

Well

VoC with a pgun

You build the gun for the breakpoints

Exec stance can change it sure

[slow spade]

Just enough so you don't get the "negative feedback" of being smacked in the back from a poxwalker too often

[terse idol]

But like

[slow spade]

Aggro specifically because it promotes being with team but does nothing if you're alone

[terse idol]

Its so good you already have the breakpoints there

[deep fable]

...
maybe because the most common game ruining event is like 12 crushers

slowmo

[terse idol]

So you give up gaining toughness back on cooldown reduction for VOC

[drifting oak]

that's a positioning problem not a TTK problem

[serene sage]

barring plasma and revolver, most bp depedent weapons need help from the talent tree
exec stance packs a lot of damage in a few nodes, saving you a decent amount of talent points for other stuff

[slow spade]

Remove VoC and Infiltrate boom no opportunity cost

[midnight totem]

It's arguably both

[strange sparrow]

VoC is just dumb with the extra toughness on auric Mael

[serene sage]

you're god damn genious

[drifting oak]

most teams have their head up their ass and get flanked or dropped on by a billion crushers or actively put themselves in a dead end

[slow spade]

UwU

[terse idol]

Eh

Its hard sometimes

[drifting oak]

slightly faster TTK usually is irrelevant because either you have the stagger+space for them

or you fucking don't

[terse idol]

Well that is the utility of VOC

[drifting oak]

or your team just straightu p has nothing that kills them (because they're idiots)

[slow spade]

Managed to get +500 bonus toughness once with the cooldown syringes during a pox hound wave

Very funny

[drifting oak]

like if you go into a game with a claw and an infantry lasgun you're basically throwing

your damage against crushers is nil

[terse idol]

??????

Uh

No?

[serene sage]

you can still have krak and rending

not ideal, mind you

but you are not dead in the water

[terse idol]

Dclaw is still very good, not the greatest against crushers but you can hold your own

[serene sage]

and exec stance helps

for that exact scenario

[terse idol]

Overheads on a dclaw 4 will drop crushers

[drifting oak]

okay kraks yes but 2 kraks is often not enough to keep up with auric spawnrates on top of "what if they took frags" or god forbid SMOKES

[terse idol]

And give you defensive options

[midnight totem]

Anyway, my exe stance vet uses a shovel for melee. Crushers? Mauler? No problem

[serene sage]

frag = stagger so you can reposition also
im not arguing it's an ideal loadout
but you have outs regardless

[drifting oak]

and the rending takes way too long to stack and often is impossible too without it falling off on crusher stacks

like yes you can kite 12 crushers in an open space but just.. you could just take the stapler shovel or something

[slow spade]

Idk why people have issues with crushers, you run faster than them 💪💪💪

[drifting oak]

and murder them

[serene sage]

what im trying to say is you can compensate for those builds with skill

[terse idol]

Yeah

[serene sage]

the same thing with exec stance tbh

[bitter turtle]

I think the big gun buff across the board made exec feel meh tbh

[serene sage]

if your aim/skill is godlike, I can imagine exec stance being quite OP

[strange sparrow]

Exec Stance in Auric is like griefing

[bitter turtle]

Most guns hit the breakpoints they need without it

[drifting oak]

it's the opposite

[terse idol]

I don't think you'll pull back your team with a dclaw and a infantry lasgun,
(You'll pull them back if you take the recon)

[slow spade]

Also the exec stance nerf hurt

[drifting oak]

if you have headshot aim

[strange sparrow]

Extra Damage doesn't do so well imo

[drifting oak]

you absolutely don't need anything exec stance gives you

[terse idol]

Uh no

[drifting oak]

because you're oneshotting basically everything that matters already

[terse idol]

Its really not

[slow spade]

It used to be a flat +50% damage

[terse idol]

Most if not all the ultimates are usable

[slow spade]

Now its 25% damage and 25% weak spot hit

[strange sparrow]

Except you're in Ventilation Purge

[terse idol]

Okay now you're moving goal posts

[drifting oak]

like sure exec stance can pull up the mg1a and even the mg4 infantry lasguns

[serene sage]

yes and no, I already pointed out Exec Stance can save you a bunch of talent points that can go elsewhere
left side purist is trash

[drifting oak]

but you could just take the mg12

[strange sparrow]

??

[drifting oak]

so lol

[sharp ember]

they fear us having old school exe stance and all these talent tree nodes

[hearty panther]

which is a straight upgrade over the flat 50% for most weapons you want to x-stance with

[strange sparrow]

Uhm okay

[slow spade]

To be fair, they've been moving goal posts

[bitter turtle]

Does it really save you points

[slow spade]

No its not lol

[serene sage]

it's a good exercise

[hearty panther]

yes

[drifting oak]

exec stance benefits a few specific weapons, the problem is those weapons are bad.

[bitter turtle]

You have to take an extra subnode over voc

[terse idol]

You said Exec stance on auric is griefing
I said no
Then you bring up Ventilation purge

Any ranged build struggles on ventilation purge

[slow spade]

I'll take a flat 50% over 25% weakspot any day

[bitter turtle]

And you lose out on stockpile unless you go to voc route anyway

[terse idol]

You moved the goal post to fit your criteria

Exec stance is fine

[serene sage]

it's like 2 points upgrade tax for 25% damage 25% weakspot
that's a lot

[bitter turtle]

I find exec stance builds to actually waste more points in the end

[hearty panther]

you can 'take' whatever you want but you're not gonna get flat 50% damage anymore lol

[strange sparrow]

I said Exec Stance is Griefing on Auric except on Ventilation Purge map where you highlight every enemy on the radius?

[hearty panther]

old x stance was stupid

[strange sparrow]

Lmao I mean that's a nice way to say it's moving goal post

[drifting oak]

old exec stance was only stupid because of 75% DR

[tiny summit]

Exe stance isn't griefing. Just get good

[drifting oak]

that affected HP too

not just toughness

[terse idol]

Oh I missed where you said "Except" 🥹

[hearty panther]

a precision class just running brautos and shredder autopistols to magdump into groups was not conducive to a sharpshooter class

[terse idol]

But then it's even better off ventilation purge

Because infantry lasguns want a long sight line

Because of the inverse damage drop off

[midnight totem]

Anyway, exec is in a good position. If anything, voc is relatively overpowered

[terse idol]

I would frankly argue it's worse ON ventilation purge

[old quail]

me when the enemy highlight ability is used with guns that you can close your eyes to shoot

[serene sage]

so buff revolver to incentivize people to sharpshoot more

[bitter turtle]

Nah

[hearty panther]

lmao fr

[midnight totem]

Stealth is slightly underpowered imho

[bitter turtle]

People would take infiltrate more over voc

If it wasn't in the shittiest spot possible on the tree

[terse idol]

Hmm

I dont think so

[hearty panther]

i'd be fine with xstance getting the glugger treatment of a free reload on F

[bitter turtle]

It costs you 4 extra points over voc to take infiltrate

[hearty panther]

but like, its fine

[tiny summit]

Exe plasma accidentally shooting a daemonhost on vent purge

[bitter turtle]

I wonder why nobody takes it 🤔

[serene sage]

tbf yeah, I would move to infiltrate before moving to exec stance if VoC is gutted

[midnight totem]

The increase damage buff on it should be innate and not a node

[terse idol]

VOC could be far right under smoke

And people would take it

[bitter turtle]

No

[strange sparrow]

Tbh I wouldn't, I just need Toughness Regeneration in Veteran Build

Infiltration give me toughness too so

[bitter turtle]

If you swapped the pt requirements and positions ppl would just take infiltrate

It has toughness gain too

4 pts is a hard ask right now

[sharp ember]

smonk grenade

[bitter turtle]

And voc has stockpile above it

[serene sage]

toughness gain + deaggro tool (low profile or stagger) are all I need from my ult

[strange sparrow]

The problem with Exec is, you get a lot of damage but it's a 5 seconds thing which you need to constantly refresh

[serene sage]

so both VoC and infil will do

[bitter turtle]

Don't underestimate how much the best standalone talent on the tree affects voc pathing

[serene sage]

VoC is just easier to use

[bitter turtle]

When it literally sits right above voc

[terse idol]

I just thought frankly because how much value you get out of VOC people pick it over infil because it benefits your whole team

[strange sparrow]

Just get good on not pulling out anything i guess

[hearty panther]

and if you put your gun away or get slightly CC"d it just fucking ends

[terse idol]

And yeah it's easier

[midnight totem]

Voc also buffs team and has a shorter cd

[terse idol]

And you can reduce the CD

[old quail]

at least enemies jumping up/down a ledge doesn't completely lock you out of doing anything for half a second

[terse idol]

And give people upwards of 200 extra toughness

[serene sage]

is it heretical if I think Infil has better "effective" CD with extra charge?

[hearty panther]

yeah i dont miss that

[terse idol]

Infil benefits you

Its good!

[serene sage]

like I "over CDR" a lot with VoC

[terse idol]

But it's purely for you

[midnight totem]

Nah

[bitter turtle]

Infiltrate has some nutty utility. But again, the problem with infil is not the effect. It's the cost of taking it

[hearty panther]

losing my ult to a mutie jumping up into his bunkbed

[bitter turtle]

You literally sac 4 extra points over voc

[serene sage]

but with Infil charge, I am effectrively regen CDR all the time

[midnight totem]

Your playstyle, your rules

[serene sage]

and I will have infil whenever I need it

[terse idol]

I disagree imo

And yes though

[old quail]

dude getting killed because the bomber nade stagger was like twice the size of his actual flame radius

so infuriating

[strange sparrow]

Also, do people here just don't do enough damage to begin with?

[crude ermine]

My dream my rules

[strange sparrow]

that they need to take Exec Stance?

[terse idol]

Voc rn only needs 1 extra point to make it incredible