veteran-class

[untold mulch]

[umbral scaffold]

dopamine ye

https://tenor.com/view/cat-22-cat-22-gif-1269004317513322794

[tiny summit]

Isn't the endgame ziplines?

[untold mulch]

I mean the endgame is what you wish to

I avoided it, I wanted to walk everywhere, only place I ddi Ziplines was the snow area

because goddamn it was infested with BTs

[umbral scaffold]

i mean they have fast vehicles, tracks, cool endgame movemnt tech

so like it goes from a hike simulator to i have super powers

[untold mulch]

Comically large pile of boxes on your back

[umbral scaffold]

COMICAL large pile of boxes

oh and i love finishing other peoples deliveries too

its like no worries i got you

[untold mulch]

Normal Sam Porter day

[umbral scaffold]

https://tenor.com/view/death-stranding-fall-stumble-clumsy-fall-over-gif-26543601

[tiny summit]

I remember being impressed seeing the accuracy of the collision detection of the tower of boxes a person could carry getting clipped by something

[umbral scaffold]

https://tenor.com/view/death-stranding-gif-18372063

[obtuse raft]

I played the whole game with a floating carrier on my back to carve down hills at every possible opportunity.

[south garnet]

when will men stop trying to bring the groceries inside in a single trip?

[untold mulch]

The game had so much dumb tech only to be as accurate as posible for carrying so many boxes

[umbral scaffold]

LMAOO

[untold mulch]

NEVER

[obtuse raft]

Only lost like half a dozen full cargo loads

[umbral scaffold]

just want to point out, sam has gun so this is still Relavant to veteran alright

https://tenor.com/view/sam-porter-bridges-death-stranding-norman-reedus-video-games-shake-gif-17150919

[untold mulch]

Yep, and you fight monsters out of dimensions

just warp stuff

Still relevant

[umbral scaffold]

exacctllyyy

[tiny summit]

But where's our monster energy?

[umbral scaffold]

im pretty sure he says "for the emperor of man kind" here and there, i could be mistaken

[untold mulch]

Green stimm

Is the future

straight into your bloodstream

[umbral scaffold]

green stimmy yellow stim cause energy

[serene sage]

Red stim though

[kind musk]

Question time!

Do I swap rampage out for a tier 4 rampage, wrath for a tier 4 savage sweep and change unyielding to maniac or flak, or leave the blessings and go for flak and unarmored? 😕

[umbral scaffold]

darktide x death stranding collab when idk wtf it would even be, i just want mog

[untold mulch]

I think for this chainswoerd Wrath is very good

because you are gonna light spam

against hordes

[kind musk]

yeah I was thinking the same. Honestly Tier 4 rampage over 3 doesn't give a lot of bonus either

[south garnet]

less weird than adding master chief to siege tbh

[untold mulch]

I think better to change the perks, and keep blessings intact

[obtuse raft]

Hosts swapped for BTs

[untold mulch]

You get DH warning by a baby wail

[umbral scaffold]

i think they can add like melee weapons maybe and skin mods,
i think if they make the porter outfits darker it can work without breaking immersion

BT map or something

HIRE ME fat shark

and then add nicki minaj

[untold mulch]

💀

Man what the fuck is wrong with COD

what the fuck is wrong with people buying that trash

[umbral scaffold]

spawn, inarus and nicki minaj sweaping the lobby

[untold mulch]

Nurgle rot

[umbral scaffold]

they didnt EVEN TRY to blend them in

[south garnet]

I'm old enough now to realize that the question of whether or not videogames rot your brain is a silly one

because videogames absolutely rot your brain

This is just a symptom

[untold mulch]

COD players absolutely are affected

[south garnet]

it's too late for me, but maybe if I can keep my son away from fortnite...

[tiny summit]

Wound zealot with the new evis is turning my brain to mush.

[quasi socket]

the new cosmetics are what, every 2 weeks?

or rather, the store rotation

[hollow turtle]

More recent games do.

Playing Oddworld was a doozy.

[untold mulch]

Stop him at all costs

[south garnet]

Man no other series has replicated the feel of 1 and 2

odyssey and exodus

[hollow turtle]

Modern games are a meme. When I first built my custom PC a few years back, I fullscreened an image of Fortnite Opening Menu and took a photo of it all to send to friends just to piss them all off.

[quasi socket]

daibolical

[hollow turtle]

Are we old or what?

[quasi socket]

**diabolical even

the first game i tried to figure out was FF8....junction system at 8 years old, that took me a while

[south garnet]

No! I'm young! And when everyone else is dead I'll be alive because I'm gonna live forever!

[hollow turtle]

Definitely was. 😆 They were cursing me out for playing a shit game on a pretty decent build (for the time)

Credit to those individuals who know Gex Enter the Gecko

Damn someone remake that game.

[quasi socket]

ok, so how painful is histg? normal damnation is revealing some flaws

dude

talk about throw back to child hood

n64 classic

[south garnet]

I feel like a Gex modernization would do well if they were a little more judicious about the pop culture references

[hollow turtle]

https://tenor.com/view/void-gex-the-void-the-void-beckons-epic-gif-22699750

Gex is the Deadpool of Videogames

[quasi glade]

Naaah there are still new games that can completely blow our minds and set new standards / become all-time bangers
Just feels like back in the days, devs had to be more creative in order to stand out and we were also more easily impressed

[quasi socket]

i remember getting a super nintendo and mario kart for christmas then years later getting n64 and mario kart on that, our house was the place to be back then

[hollow turtle]

lol you could make a Gex modernization and series based off of every generation's pop culture tbh.

[south garnet]

I think I started gaming on an atari jaguar

[south garnet]

This would actually be sick, like timesplitters future perfect style where each level is its own era

[hollow turtle]

Nah. Halo LAN parties. Now that was something.

[quasi socket]

on deployment i picked up blasphemous and a couple other titles for my switch, honestly the smaller dev team games are more enjoyable then the yearly recycle update titles we get

[south garnet]

Halo lan parties rocked but for me it was starcraft lan parties

[quasi socket]

its like "oh the new ncaa madden fps released, lets do the same things again but PRETTIER"

[hollow turtle]

Fortnite players can't relate

[quasi glade]

@deep raven I can try to help you if you want :>

[quasi socket]

i did starcraft lans with my cousins and one friend had a 4 xbox set up for halo at his house, it was a blast

[south garnet]

Halo 1 made me shit my pants, my buddy's dad worked at microsoft (I know I know, but I literally live right next to MS) and he took us into an empty conference room to play it on the giant projector screen, just the three of us, before it came out

[untold mulch]

My LAN parties were Age of Mythology/Empires 2

[quasi socket]

the first time playing the library mission, i felt fear

[deep raven]

I don't know how to post the talent tree is too big,yes please i'm losing my mind. There are people who do the boss in 4 minutes in heresy i'm struggling to reach phase 2 without dieing.

[quasi glade]

Yeah, I agree, though I also feel like for every good indie game there are 20 shit ones, lol
Some bigger studios still make excellent games, thankfully.

[hollow turtle]

Nah. Guilty Spark mission

[quasi glade]

Alright let's try, lemme get on 😄

[untold mulch]

Yoooo, man with the VIP pass

[hollow turtle]

Now that just turned game from FPS to horror shooter

[untold mulch]

Ngl, I never felt visceral fear as I hear people talking about CE

[hollow turtle]

They sometimes got back up

[untold mulch]

Like, moment I saw the monsters was an oh crap but followed by a more targets

Maybe kid me was too trigger happy

[south garnet]

the moment you step out of that escape pod onto the planet with the swelling music is what won me over instantly

[deep raven]

I always play with the lucious and the shovel i switched to bolter and power sword,also the power sword is pretty weak from when i used it in the early days.

[hollow turtle]

I tried to do a Legendary play through of the series. Tell you this: Halo 1 Legendary is another tier of difficulty

[untold mulch]

Halo 2 legendary

Your shields are extremely resiliant

[south garnet]

It wasn't all gems, he also introduced me to the first and last MMOs I'll ever play, asherons call 1 and 2 lmao which are also MS titles

[quasi socket]

i (still to this day) hated horror shooters, and would watch my cousin play them, hell various horror games in general

[south garnet]

Put me off them permanently

[untold mulch]

Did you a favor

MMOs ruin your life

[serene sage]

which game are we talking about now?

[untold mulch]

Yes

[hollow turtle]

I watched my brother play Dead Space. He left for 5 minutes so I picked up the controller, walked into the next room, saw enemies and was like, "NOPE"

[quasi socket]

games in general from childhood

[south garnet]

scared straight program to keep kids from buying blizzard products actually seems genius nowadays

[untold mulch]

I don't mind Horror Shooters

If I can shoot/fight the terror, my brain doesn't registers Scary

Just fight harder

[serene sage]

Army Men RTS

[quasi socket]

i played it a bit back in 2013 on pc and streamed it to a buddy. i made it pretty far in (think 3/4's?) and was shitting myself the whole time

[serene sage]

oh boy this brings back memories

[hollow turtle]

Until you realize the terror only incapacitates temporarily but not kills

[untold mulch]

UYOOOOOOOOOOOO

YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I HAVE THE DISK SOMEWHERE

[opaque bramble]

I'd say a game kinda like GTFO is more of a drama game compared to say... horror lol.

Like it'll have you at the edge of your seat, but not really scared

[untold mulch]

WHERE IS THE PLASTIC

I NEED MORE, WE ARE LOSING MEN

[quasi socket]

the enemy in dead space that dies temporarily then gets back up and keeps chasing....i noped off the game at that point i think

[quasi glade]

@deep raven What's your Fatshark Friend Code?

[serene sage]

remember this?

I remember

[south garnet]

Age of Empires 2 is possibly THE definitive RTS game for me, outside of possibly C&C Red Alert

[hasty reef]

I’m the otherway around, I love horror movies but am a wuss for horrorgames

[south garnet]

Or total annihilation

[deep raven]

where i find it?

[serene sage]

Red Alert 2 consumed an entire summer of mine

[opaque bramble]

I need to go listen to the soundtrack for that now lol

[quasi socket]

unreal tournament/duke nukem was my intro to "big boy" shooters

[untold mulch]

My first Quake like

Star Trek Elite Force

[hollow turtle]

https://tenor.com/view/red-alert-transformer-gif-13151051

If you know, you know.

[untold mulch]

I still love that Star Trek of all games was the one who affected my style of running and shooting

[deep raven]

found it

[quasi glade]

Esc -> Social -> press E

[deep raven]

1963951535

[hasty reef]

I still play my first games now and then, og battlefront 2 and jurassic park operation genesis 🫡

[serene sage]

until I found out about Warcraft 3, then DotA, then DotA 2, then League, then it's all down hill from there

[untold mulch]

THE ENEMY HAS TAKEN A COMMAND POST

[hollow turtle]

I sometimes consider installing this again even though my PC is overpowered for it now.

[untold mulch]

THEIR REINFORCEMENTS ARE BEING DEPLETED

[hollow turtle]

https://tenor.com/view/nod-peace-through-power-kane-lives-gif-25854485

[serene sage]

YOU MUST CONSTRUCT ADDITIONAL PYLONS

[south garnet]

Battlefront 2 was so goddamn fun, what the hell were they thinking

[hasty reef]

WATCH THOSE WRIST ROCKETS

[serene sage]

UNIT LOST

UNIT LOST

UNIT LOST

[hollow turtle]

POWER LOW

[untold mulch]

Real War

Gotta love those names of games that make it a pain to search anything about them

[hollow turtle]

Tiberian Sun?

Lol

[serene sage]

Warning Chronosphere detected

[hollow turtle]

Westwood studios games were amazing

[south garnet]

hey there I'm just an innocent little dude I'm practically harmless you don't mind if me and ten thousand of my closest pals walk around your borders do you?

[untold mulch]

https://youtu.be/YHO3cPMTB2I?si=fLdXSODjdsFP9fBn

So many hours

[hollow turtle]

That includes the C&C series

[untold mulch]

So many hours organizing combined arms attacks

[quasi glade]

no mention of Dawn of War...

[bleak bolt]

finally rolled the perfect axe - gonna replace Unyielding to Carapace

[hollow turtle]

Tactics? What are those

[hollow turtle]

Lol this is why we're all here.

[south garnet]

Dawn of war 1 and 2 totally missed me

[untold mulch]

I sadly never touched 40k until the quarantine

Is only in 2019-2020 when I went, huh, whats this

[hollow turtle]

Plebians! HERETICS!

[untold mulch]

My fate was sealed

[south garnet]

The warhammer games I played as a kid were Space Hulk on I think 3DO? And a warhammer fantasy RTS about skaven on the PS1

[bleak bolt]

if y'all didnt enjoy Dawn of war - youc an still do it with some mods that make it really epic

[untold mulch]

I played the apocalypse mod

[serene sage]

I did not get to play DoW until I was in college, so like 5 or 6 years ago

[hollow turtle]

My brothers and I still hop on DOW once in a while just to get screwed by the AI at highest income setting.

[serene sage]

In fact, I know jack about W40k until last year

[nimble sentinel]

I had a boring night job and a need for background noise when I found ouyt there was gonna be a new left 4 dead in the 40k universe and also lutein/adric exist

it do be like that sometimes

[untold mulch]

It do be like that

My real introduction game wise to 40k

Space Marine

[hollow turtle]

A battlefront-esque game I wish took off was Angels Fall First on Steam.

[untold mulch]

I just, saw a clip of the executions and was curious

a few hours later

[south garnet]

Wargaming was what familiarized me with both warhammer fantasy and 40k

[serene sage]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Nvckip7qxk

[untold mulch]

FOR THE EMPEROR

[serene sage]

I just want to share this gem

it fits so well

[hollow turtle]

I'm saving that video

[untold mulch]

Much to my shame have yet to play C&C but

man, the memes are so good

I SAW THAT

WHO WAS

[serene sage]

there is also the Tim Curry's

I am escaping to the one place not corrupted by capitalism
SPAH eyes roll

[flint garden]

did hotfix not fix plasma

[untold mulch]

That is a treasure for humanity

God I just remembered

Star Wars Galactic Battlegrounds

[south garnet]

I saw that

[untold mulch]

Goddammit who tf is Tug

[south garnet]

https://tenor.com/view/i-saw-what-you-just-deleted-gif-22613011

[untold mulch]

Emperor saw that

[south garnet]

I genuinely feel that 40k lore is only interesting and valuable insofar as understanding the corresponding memes, some of which are very funny, or the in-house 40k jokes that are functionally synonymous with the lore

[hollow turtle]

Share with the rest of the class.

[south garnet]

But I get that my wargaming-oriented background colors that perspective

[wanton dawn]

https://tenor.com/view/tim-curry-space-capitalism-laughing-hysterically-smirk-gif-21230907

[hollow turtle]

You got the Trump-peror level memes for those who don't know 40k. Then you got the grimdark reality memes.

[untold mulch]

The breathe before Space gets me

[serene sage]

still chuckle everytime

[hollow turtle]

"The Lasgun can kill 99% of humanities enemies throughout the ages. Unfortunately, all that's left is the 1%."

[serene sage]

tfw the meme is more known than Red Alert 3

[south garnet]

I really like the variety of ways in which people have explained the factions, which are typically pretty accurate roasts of existant material for them

[serene sage]

sounds like a handsoap commercial

[untold mulch]

Thats what the Hellgun is for

Just increase the amount of Las

[south garnet]

On top of using very out of the way and specific soundbytes that are in and of themselves pretty funny, such as the JP bit above

[south garnet]

It's still amazing to me how many bigtime actors did FMV appearances in games in the 90's-early 2k's

[serene sage]

idc what you say, "if enough Orcs think something is true it will be true" will forever be the most canon to me

[hollow turtle]

"The WALL OF GUNS..." -Corvus Corax, TTS series

[south garnet]

People playing them at the time would never have even realized, like the wing commander appearances and etc.

[serene sage]

lore purists can go shove the books up their behind :<

[wanton dawn]

Ppl gonna eat

[serene sage]

yeah, like the Red Alert 3 cast is actually loaded, almost everyone is notable

and they have like the goofiest moments, too
too bad the game itself wasn't that great

[gritty dock]

I have a question for revolver experts.
Is it better to change Surgical (III) to Surgical (IV) and 1 Perk in this revolver?
Should I keep Surgical (III) and change 2 perks?
There is a big difference between 0.3 and 0.35 crit added per second.
And what are the best Perks to give here?

Currently, the revolver has:
Surgical (III)
Hand-Cannon (IV)
+20% Damage (Infested Enemies)
+15% Sprint Efficiency

[hard parcel]

My entire knowledgebase of Warhammer Lore is just the TTS series.

[hollow turtle]

Same. And then a little extra on the side.

[serene sage]

change both perks

[south garnet]

I'd go so far as to say I don't believe lore purists even exist for 40k, because what 'pure' lore is there, outside of maybe a few specific people at GW at any given time who themselves don't actually care about the lore anyway - it's like the now-defunct-yet-still-somehow-revived-or-zombified star wars EU in that respect

[untold mulch]

More consistent than GW writing

[south garnet]

If you think you are one, you're playing yourself

[hollow turtle]

"CONNOR! It's aim and shoot, not aim and aim and aim and AIM!"

[hard parcel]

Yeah I eventually started to delve deeper into the weapons of Warhammer, and man is it a rabbit hole.

[serene sage]

space marines can either die to a literal brick or withstand a knight foot stomp

[untold mulch]

I miss old strategy games being just pure ham

HEAVY TANK UNDER INFANTRY ATTACK.....WHY AM I SHOUTING THIS?

[hollow turtle]

Company of Heroes

Not the 3rd one

Fuck no

[untold mulch]

I suppose if they are very lucky they can give us a headache with that AT Rifle!

[hollow turtle]

"You have an Anti-Tank rifle! There's a tank! THINK!"

[serene sage]

There is an easter egg dialogue in Starcraft 2 that goes like

Hey what was that?
Probably just a rat.
A rat? What? There is no rats in space?
Well, technically everything is in space.

[gritty dock]

I have one more question. What Perks are best for Revolver?

[serene sage]

both dies to the Queen of Blades shortly after

[untold mulch]

AIN'T WRONG

[hollow turtle]

lol

[untold mulch]

Is so good

[south garnet]

Reminds me of my favorite magic card flavor text, which reminds me of the brief 2-3 year period I played like 20 years ago lol
Goblin Gardener: "Grow food, in dirt? Save time, eat dirt"

[serene sage]

Sir, they are everywhere.
Then shoot everywhere.

[hollow turtle]

"I told my mother I was going to see Tigers. She thought I was going to the Moscow Zoo."

"Ja the whole platoon had the clap, even Reinhart, and we're pretty sure he's a virgin." was hilarious to hear from an idle squad

[untold mulch]

Fire at will! No, not at Wilhelm! He owes me money.

[hollow turtle]

I actually own the book that CoH2 made reference to. You know. The one banned in Russia. 😆

[untold mulch]

Oh god I need to get audio of the "roses are red" quote for the ones who haven't

[serene sage]

Which one?

[wanton dawn]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A69e0kA4baA

[untold mulch]

Roses are red, Violets are blue. I'm stuck on the Eastern Front... AND SO ARE FUCKING YOU!!!

https://youtu.be/MaF_dkuGLjE?si=1ZpIJ9UV9a7klU74&t=107

anyone who hasn't

I implore you, hear the entire video

[wanton dawn]

Goblins farm is serious business

[south garnet]

The heavy sword 6 v 9 conversation in a nutshell

[lofty lintel]

i feel like i can salvage this if i swap gloryhunter for surgical and sprint efficiency

what do yall think

[south garnet]

Yep, solid plan

And if you really feel like you need to make up for the 10% missing rending you can make up for it with the talent

[hollow turtle]

Straight down the middle

[topaz token]

I've been using this for clearing swarms and occasionally bonking muties/elites. Uncanny Strike doesn't seem to do much at all, but none of the other blessings seem great. Any suggestions?

[obsidian umbra]

im assuming onslaught is really good with mk 5 infantry autogun?

[quasi socket]

usually dumdum/deathspitter on iag

onslaught gets run on the helbore lasguns, but i know very little for prevelant meta currently

actually, onslaught not available in iag blessing pool

[obsidian umbra]

i was referring to the talent onslaught

[topaz token]

yeah, its great for any brace/infanty autogun

[quasi socket]

ah ok.

[quasi tulip]

Chainaxe perks and blessings?

[gusty grail]

I wish this skill wasn't buried so deep

Basically mandatory if you aren't using certain weapons

[obsidian umbra]

depends on how your using it, mine is primaly for a damage source vs monsteritys and crushers cause i have no real carpace armor pen main weapon so i run thunderous + the 16 bleed stacks shredder attack

[swift flax]

what are the typical vet curios?

[gusty grail]

I use Toughness on all 3 slots

[quasi socket]

2 toughness, 1 hp

[obsidian umbra]

I do x2 toughness and 1 hp, some like 1 tough, 1 hp and 1 stamina

[quasi socket]

stam regen, more toughness, block eff because panic

[swift flax]

alright typical toughness

definitely not block eff though because all ive heard is that it sucks

[quasi socket]

well im not good at the game

[obsidian umbra]

block effect can be good if your "building around it" like deflector + that block based on peril psyker talent

[celest vine]

Limbsplitter

Will one hit mutants

And crushers

And bulwarks

And maulers

[sleek garden]

Block efficiency is nice on weapons with less movement

sometimes you need to regenerate dodges

Power swords with their 4 bars of stamina for example

[celest vine]

Will want carapace tho to let you two shot crushers when limbsplitter is on cooldown

[south garnet]

With the standard shovel? Neat

[celest vine]

Oh mk 3

Not standard

[south garnet]

Ohh I see it now, ok

[celest vine]

But MK3 will fuck hard

[south garnet]

I was gonna say, damn

[celest vine]

Get unyielding damage then hit a plauge ogryn

[fresh mango]

I understand why people dont like the bolter but its so much fun to me

[torn needle]

Do I dare see what the last blessing is?

[sleek garden]

I think the original shovel does crowd control better and is a bit more flexible

but the folding shovels have those insane overheads

[celest vine]

Hey thats another blessing for the collecrion

[celest vine]

Maybe youl

Youre set

Shattering impact I like

Carapace and unyielding now

[torn needle]

I prefer elite/special

[celest vine]

Blaze away is in no way needed

[torn needle]

For one shot headshot on all ranged elites and specials

[celest vine]

(And you need to be really precise with your spam for it to actually work)

[torn needle]

I actually prefer blaze away

Good for dps when you need it

[edgy sleet]

Any advice?

[celest vine]

Unarmored is good for dreg gunners

[forest scaffold]

that shit is bricked

[celest ermine]

Should I change something or is it cursed?
Maulers are left with ~600 hp after heavy

[quasi socket]

out of all the choices, 2 auto pistols

[unreal bone]

Tried queing into some random orthus missions. 🤣

It's been out how long and ppl still don't know that Rinda takes more bullet damage on shield and Rodin takes more melee damage on shield?

[rancid tinsel]

Not my favorite blessing selection, but probably gives you good wave clear, I would rework the perks if you have spare plasteel, get maniac so you can oneshot muties with the pick

[scenic bronze]

Epic name

[junior needle]

Autopistol is big shit currently

[quasi socket]

cannibalized both for blessings pool

[junior needle]

That was the correct decision

[quasi socket]

i dont enjoy them and would rather get revolvers/bags/iags, hell, even a helbore or lasgun

[paper grove]

Worth it or keep my one?

[celest ermine]

funnily enough, Muti seems to be already a "one shot" with the 2nd dmg tick of the special or is that not enough?

[lofty lintel]

worth it

get it and extract headhunter

[fast lichen]

is the new revolverrr good on veteran?

[lofty lintel]

and replace both of your blessings for deadly accurate and headhunter

[quartz haven]

yep

[fast lichen]

thanks

[paper grove]

Sorry just for my dumbass could you ellaborate on "extract" as I dont have any blessings spare 😖

[hollow ibex]

Eh imo, just the gun in general

[lofty lintel]

grab it and earn the blessing

heahunter

headhunter

[paper grove]

Ah oki

[lofty lintel]

and look for deadly accurate on other lasguns to put on your current one

[paper grove]

Ah oki so im bascially getting this one to cannibalise the blessing to put on my current got ya

[junior needle]

Not exactly a great choice either way. Left has worse damage/stopping power. Right is more usable if you make changes. Infantry lasguns have very shit damage to flak so you could probably skip it and go for both blessings replaced as someone else said.

[paper grove]

oddly enough ik its only level 2 but i did find this in the armoury

[lofty lintel]

you cant put that blessing on the lasgun

[junior needle]

It won't work

[lofty lintel]

because its on a headhunter gun

[junior needle]

^

[paper grove]

Damn

[lofty lintel]

yep

[junior needle]

Gun lines have separate blessing pools, even for the same blessing

Weapon lines, excuse me

[lofty lintel]

yeah

[celest ermine]

do all autoguns and all lasguns share or is it even finer than that?

[junior needle]

nope, different types are separated

[paper grove]

Oh oki. Tbh i never really dove into the whole hadron stuff hence my lack of basic understanding but thanks for the advice

[junior needle]

So infantry las has a separate pool to helbores

And IAG's have separate pools to brautos

[celest ermine]

so t he last two words of a gun is its line I guess? Recon Lasgun, Braced Autogun etc

got it thanks

[junior needle]

It's pretty simple, the hardest part is knowing what's actually best on the weapons. After that it's rolling and doing damage control when hadron bricks your shit.

[celest ermine]

out of curiosity, was that explained at some point in game or is that just information you are supposed to have straight outta the eye of terror?

[junior needle]

It's not explained, you have to figure it out for yourself

Fatshark is quite bad about that

[paper grove]

Thanks I will keep at it

[south garnet]

I ran bolter as vet seriously for the first time since patch 13 lastnight using exec stance and oh man, it absolutely pastes

I have brittle and +power on stagger on mine - I wish I had surgical instead of brittle, but even still

[wise fossil]

Is Full Bore any good on the shotguns? Does it work with the slug on the one shotty?

[south garnet]

yes and yes

I pretty much exclusively use full bore on agri shotty

[pastel geode]

Full bore is really good on shotties

[cinder wing]

hello, can someone hook me up with a comissar style vet skill tree?

[wise fossil]

neat, Emprah gave me full bore 4

[south garnet]

for kant and lawbringer I usually take scattershot and flechette or manstopper, but YMMV

[wise fossil]

probably just gonna yoink the blessing

[south garnet]

yep, yoink that

[quasi tulip]

does each shredder tick proc thunderous?

[south garnet]

this absolutely rocks on the new chaxe

no idea about the shredder/thunderous interaction but it's certainly effective however it works, I've used the same exact axe multiple times both with and without that blessings and it feels way better even in mixed hordes

Thunderous does wonders softening em up and the special will bleed out anything lightning fast, especially since you can dodge out of it and still proc the full bleed stacks

[marsh condor]

Just some kooky thought.

Remember that idea about giving the Veteran a Power Fist?

[paper grove]

👀

would be nice

[marsh condor]

My question is how'd they implement it.

[scenic bronze]

Reuse knife punch animation

[serene sage]

Always has been

[marsh condor]

Do we pair it with another weapon?

[normal pawn]

tfw you lose a T.O.O hardmode bc someone dropped the ammo crate in the elevator

[scenic bronze]

What like a cutlass and pistol ? never heard of it

[normal pawn]

Forced into melee against rager hordes sucks as a vet 😔

[marsh condor]

Lemme grab an image

[south garnet]

oh no, ragers!

https://tenor.com/view/mortgagenerds-grenade-explode-boom-gif-16408821

[torn needle]

Alright friends

Carapice or unyield for plasma

[lucid hinge]

whats your other perk?

[merry glade]

i've tried melee vet and i gotta say -- not badd bb

[serene sage]

Does anyone know how much dama the agri slug does?

[merry glade]

no ammo aura sucks ass though

[torn needle]

%elite

[unborn jasper]

What build are yall running with plasma gun? Tried a few things here and there not finding the right balance

[serene sage]

It doesn't say in game

[hollow ibex]

Don’t need carapace on plasma imo

[serene sage]

It's one of those things that you can run whatever you like I think

[obtuse raft]

Weapon specialist feels like it was designed with plasma in mind.

[lucid hinge]

oh

[south garnet]

weakspot node, then literally anything outside of that. So if you want to never die, pick every single grenade perk and then the melee finesse bonus and bring along your power sword 6

[hollow ibex]

Literally anything because the gun will just delete all the same lol

[south garnet]

and shout

[obtuse raft]

The reload on melee helps a gigantic amount

[torn needle]

I gotta work with what I got

[lucid hinge]

yeah I would run maniac unyielding for plasma ngl

[merry glade]

does it synergize with the % mag fill? that's a strong part of weap spec i feel

[obtuse raft]

I only reload like twice a mission in elevators because I have nothing else to do

[torn needle]

Why maniac tho?

[lucid hinge]

it fucks carapace already

[torn needle]

Ragers?

[lucid hinge]

so you can oneshot muties and ragers without trouble

[serene sage]

I'm amazed that reloading is an issue on the plasma

Guys the plasma mag is literally half the reserve

[unborn jasper]

What is that called

[serene sage]

In theory you just need to reload once per game

Do y'all have OCD or some shit

Compulsive reloading?

[obtuse raft]

I forget, it's the bottom left part of the weapon specialist keystone

[umbral scaffold]

unbound the reaload button long time ago

[south garnet]

MAN THE RELOAD ON PLASMA IS SO PUNISHING THE UPTIME SUCKS ON IT BETWEEN THAT AND COOLDOWN proceeds to reload every third shot

[celest vine]

8 crushers

[quasi socket]

ive been running focus target in mine for the last few days. might go back to weapon specialist for a bit. specialist is nice because + team damage, but WS is good because of less reloads

[obtuse raft]

I'm getting like 2x my ammo total from scavenger lol

[lucid hinge]

yes probably since almost every other FPS builds that habit

its also satisfying to do

[quasi socket]

Always prepared, first talent to lower left of weapon specialist

[serene sage]

Oh my bad, reload twice per game

[obtuse raft]

I'm not using just my starting ammo over a whole run

[south garnet]

This game would be much more intense if you disposed of remaining ammo in your mag instead of shoving it magically back into the pool, that's for sure

[serene sage]

I mean I reload obsessively too but I just do that after an engagement

[pastel geode]

I rarely use plasma but that’s basically why especially when reload doubles as heat venting

[obtuse raft]

Plasma reload also takes like a week so never ever needing to do it in a fight is really nice

[quasi socket]

one of my issues is going from ciag to plasma, learning heat management and getting comfortable w/ less than full mag after being a mag dump spec

[umbral scaffold]

u guys reload?

[hollow ibex]

It’s not too bad for the mag size + reload cancel

[untold mulch]

Oh god I can't use plasma for that

Shoot shoot
Brief respite
Aggresive reload

[forest blaze]

I've recently converted to using weapon specialist with plasma.

[south garnet]

For shotguns and oldvolver always follow the golden rule of ABR

Always Be Reloadin'

[serene sage]

the same thing with bolter tbh, 15 bullet per mag is a little low
but that's 15 dead gunners if you aim

[south garnet]

Any second you're not shootin' you best be stuffin' another round in that puppy

[obtuse raft]

Heat management is real easy with voice of command, pop it for space+toughness and just vent it all away

[forest blaze]

if you need to combat reload, you'll likely want infiltrate

[serene sage]

ragers can be one tapped, scab ragers 2, maulers 3

that's a lot of dead elites for 15 bullets

[marsh condor]

Or just Take A Breath

[south garnet]

Bolter's reload speed honestly feels perfect with the +30% on elite kill node

[umbral scaffold]

Or just Take A Bathe

[obtuse raft]

Weapon specialist wants you swapping back and forth constantly anyway also so you naturally keep it fairly low

[serene sage]

yeah it feels nice but I run no reload tree

embrace the clunk, my brother

[hollow ibex]

I run 50% for the memes but yeah 30% is great already

[south garnet]

based

[forest blaze]

This is what I use with plasma and my melee is the new chainaxe.

[serene sage]

I run 5% reload because I have to for survivalist

[marsh condor]

I take no keystones

[untold mulch]

same

[marsh condor]

When I want to go Melee Mode

[obtuse raft]

IDK how people can live without frags

[serene sage]

is that... a tinkered smoke nade?

[forest blaze]

It sure is

30 seconds of smoke my friend

[marsh condor]

Wait

They should buff the stagger with Tinkerer

[serene sage]

wait in theory smoke uptime is minimum 50%

[forest blaze]

yah

[serene sage]

🤔

[forest blaze]

you can almost permanently have smokes up

[south garnet]

Might find an excuse to try the full 50% at some point

[serene sage]

is it worth it boys

[obtuse raft]

Definitely one of the builds of all time there

[quasi socket]

yeah im adjusting to it, but still havent gotten comfortable in damnation in general. tend to panic and tense up (hunting grounds first time was a bit sketchy) and that just leads to mis-inputs so now im missing block cancels on ps, failing to block attack > strike down etc

[serene sage]

100% up time smoke

is that enough to take it

[forest blaze]

There's a ton of situations where I just drop smokes into gunlines and just run up and melee them instead of shooting

[hollow ibex]

It’s mostly for the memes but it’s not too hard to pick up 50%

[marsh condor]

They should really add increased stagger for the Smoke Grenade with Tinkerer.

[forest blaze]

15 gunners? save yourself the ammo and just drop smokes and go chop them in half

[obtuse raft]

Yeah but like, just use a frag for the exact same effect but it still kills stuff.

[serene sage]

let's say you smoke them, do they stay inside the smoke or walk out?

[unborn jasper]

I'm trying a totally diffrent build wish me luck lol

[serene sage]

like you smoke a gunner, would he stay inside?

[marsh condor]

They'd try to walk out.

[forest blaze]

They normally walk out, so you drop it directly in front of them

and you sprint tf up

luckily, both movespeed talents and stamina efficiency

[serene sage]

actually smoke nade should be immobilization nade

that would be somewhat useful

you can balance around that, too

[obtuse raft]

It'd be a lot more interesting if it was tear gas or something like that.

[forest blaze]

smokes also force shotgunners to walk up directly to you instead of shooting from 30 feet awy

[south garnet]

Frags, especially twinned blast tinkerer frags that will regen themselves once the entire room dies from a single casual toss, make my tummy feel funny in a way my wife doesn't

[serene sage]

20% of the times it works everytime

also buy your wife flowers

im just saying

[hollow ibex]

I have a grenadier build

[obtuse raft]

Tinker frags do make you feel a certain way lol

[hollow ibex]

And it’s fucking amazing

[south garnet]

I've actually been meaning to but my favorite flower stand hasn't been open since like thanksgiving dammit

[obtuse raft]

It's like having three more ults in your pocket

[south garnet]

Grenadier is absolutely disgusting especially when you're carrying plasma and a psword and the talents required for it costs you virtually nothing, absolutely vile reprehensible shit

Then shout on top of that is just, I don't know man, not kosher

[forest blaze]

this is my plasma grenadier build but I use PS6 with this instead of chainaxe

[obtuse raft]

Staggering harder than the ogryn and I've not even pulled out the plasma yet

[south garnet]

we don't need keystones where we're going

[serene sage]

Demo Team or Exihilarating Takedown?

[forest blaze]

With tinkerer frags I'm a huge fan of demo team

especially when running aurics

because you should be able to always have 2-3 frags available

[serene sage]

yeah i might cave and get demo instead

[tall torrent]

Demo team imo

Also take the stamina regen delay node on left

[obtuse raft]

Demo procs so often I have a hard time using them all

[forest blaze]

tinkerer frags win games

stamina regen delay node is amazing.

[serene sage]

I have a single point left

[south garnet]

Exhilarating Takedown more like Extremely Terrible, if you're choosing between that and more tinker frags! LMAO!

[forest blaze]

you could drop longshot instead

[serene sage]

almost nothing on that tree is negotiable except ping keystone

[tall torrent]

Is that a bolter build

[serene sage]

need it for breakpoint

yeah

should I even run keystone?

[quasi glade]

Nah but those keystones 💀

[tall torrent]

I think u can drop the keystone modifier

[serene sage]

the build is fairly stable, I just want to try something new

[tall torrent]

Unless it helps with breakpoints

[forest blaze]

yah you won't need redirect fire

[serene sage]

it doesn't

[quasi glade]

You want all 3 keystone modifiers!!!

[serene sage]

i like it for bosses

[tall torrent]

Then just drop it lol

[forest blaze]

if you're taking one of them, you take target down

[tall torrent]

Nah, not even a single one is needed

[forest blaze]

if you take redirect you also take focused IIRC

[tall torrent]

Just depends on use case

[serene sage]

I just feel empty not running keystone 😭

[forest blaze]

haha

[tall torrent]

Keystone is fine
Drop the modifier

What gun are u using with that build anyway

[forest blaze]

yah take keystone just don't take redirect

[serene sage]

like that OCD voice yknow, it be like that ain't no build

bolter

[forest blaze]

redirect shouldn't really help you with breakpoints on plasma IIRC

[serene sage]

it's my main build, it's fine, like i said, just wanted to try something slightly different

[gusty grail]

I'd go with Demo Team unless you are using something hard hitting and accurate

[south garnet]

what about remove keystone, add deadshot then travel node and +stam on dodge? Is that even useful? I don't know!

[quasi socket]

zealot/psykers/ogryns - "look at our keystones!"
veterans - "did someone say MORE GRENADES?!" runs off wildly

[gusty grail]

Demo Team is S Tier though

[quasi glade]

Heresy! A tiny bit of self-utility isn't worth giving up a constant damage buff & toughness/stam regen bursts for the entire team.

[hollow ibex]

Fuck the team

[gusty grail]

Tagging is free damage with a stacking group damage buff

[tall torrent]

A very large amount of self-utility is significantly more valuable than feeding your team 10% toughness and 12% dmg

[hollow ibex]

I want more nades

[serene sage]

aight

we go

[south garnet]

I know how it works thanks

[serene sage]

before you say it yes ik stamina node is likely better than 5%health, i just like it this way

[tall torrent]

Dropping 30 tinkered frags every game is way way way better than feeding 10% toughness to ur team lol

[gusty grail]

Don't appreciate how it works then lol

[hollow ibex]

Yes tinkered frags are just another manifestation of toughness anyway

[eternal sable]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhQPzLy5X04&ab_channel=wall-knight

[south garnet]

I simply must not understand, if people simply understood the game the same way you do they would all agree with your incredibly narrow and bizarrely specific opinions

Obviously!

[cinder wing]

why do shotguns feel so bad, have they been nerfed?

[jovial fog]

whats the tump stat for chainsword?

[cinder wing]

I can't kill anything with them

[hollow ibex]

Mobility

[serene sage]

which one are you using?

mine one tap gunners

[cinder wing]

not the fire one

[south garnet]

Best chainsword stat is mobility for running away

[serene sage]

and one shot reapers

[tall torrent]

The funniest playstyle u can do is all grenade talent + out for blood

[cinder wing]

I feel like I have to be in melee range to actually get damage

[serene sage]

that's my patch 14 build

when the vet tree was starving

[hollow ibex]

What is out for blood again?

[serene sage]

3.5% toughness on kill

(by any means)

[hollow ibex]

Oh lol

That’s a good synergy

[tall torrent]

Gain 3.5% toughness for all kills (gun, melee, grenade, DoT, anything)

[serene sage]

nade = near full toughness

[hollow ibex]

Hadn’t thought about that

Niiiiice

[south garnet]

Toughness printer

[serene sage]

yeah that's the rough part.
damage fall off is real

[gusty grail]

If you were doing 500k a match, now you are doing 537k - and that's just from the group buff alone

[serene sage]

then again

shotgun
close range
makes sense

[cinder wing]

why use a shotgun when I already have a melee weapon yknow lmao

[quasi socket]

i might run this if my friends come back, with space ak....try to hard carry them

[south garnet]

That's so cool man, that's really cool

[serene sage]

cause your melee doesn't have the midrange reach of 15ish meters out

I can one tap gunners 15m out

[hollow ibex]

And then there’s agri

And kantrael for that matter

[serene sage]

anything 20+ meters out truly feel like nerf gun though

[south garnet]

Agri shotgun's nerf rounds sits crushers down without killing them much like actual nerf guns sit actual toddlers down without killing them

They're fun is what I mean

:^)

[quasi glade]

It's 5-40% of toughness & stamina in constant little bursts, much better than gaining a grenade on every 20th special/elite kill on average.

[gusty grail]

Group buff also gets your Reshaad Axe Cleaving Heads with less stacks of Headtaker

Literally makes everything easier

[quasi glade]

And 12% team damage can definitely help hit some breakpoints, if not for you, then for your teammates.

[tall torrent]

It’s 10% in actual application

[gusty grail]

This. It's a constant stream if you are killing fast

[tall torrent]

10% for every enemy u kill while tagged

That’s how it works in actual application

[quasi glade]

10% constantly then, that's really good for a team effect.

[serene sage]

So I actually track my percent damage, nade (without demo team) bleeding alone makes up about 10% of my total damage
demo team per my calculation is about at the MINIMUM 20 extra nades per 30 min game so I think for my build, it's likely better than Redirect Fire

then again, I also have been running Redirect Fire almost this entire time, so I can take Demo and calc the different

heuristically

[quasi glade]

What do you mean "nade bleeding"

[serene sage]

frag nade causes, yknow, bleed

[quasi glade]

💀

[gusty grail]

True enough, find other things to trim in your build. Remember, the group buff will make all your frag bleeds tick harder

[south garnet]

please don't suggest that there are alternative playstyles or viable builds

[serene sage]

i have a score that tracks bleed damage, I don't run the thousand cut talent

[gusty grail]

I'd comit to going with the left or middle tree at the top, not both

[quasi glade]

You encounter "minimum" 400 specials+elites per game???

[serene sage]

honestly more lol

I personally kill 150+ average

my team can make up for the rest

[junior needle]

Since when is demo team not meta?

[quasi glade]

Are you all just fucking around farming waves? Lol

[serene sage]

no standard 30 mins game

yes ik it's "long"

im not a pro gamer 20 min game

but 30 min seems normal so idk

[quasi glade]

I don't think I've met that many even in 40 min maxed auric damnation maelstrom games

Though it was probably close

Just the way you said "minimum"

[south garnet]

auric dam QPs frequently take 35-40 minutes no matter how well I play as an individual

[south garnet]

pubs are just like that

[serene sage]

I'mn fairly certain, let me get home and look up my games

[raw steppe]

Really? I pretty commonly hit that in auric histg

[quasi glade]

Maybe you fucked the threat director's AI wife idk

[gusty grail]

I love the new mission but some people don't know when to move forward

[raw steppe]

Its super common for me to get 50/50 disablers and specials

And another 80-100 in elites

[quasi glade]

Yeah but if you hit 50/50 then your team is probably in the 1-10's

[raw steppe]

Uh no lol

Usually theyre in 30s/40s

[shell leaf]

yo whatsup

[south garnet]

I just spam tag when I start getting impatient

[normal pawn]

Oooh let him cook. It dont smell good but let him cook.

[raw steppe]

That's just how many specials there are in histg

[raw steppe]

In normal 5s your score looks like 20/20 or so

[quasi glade]

Highest I've had was prob 80/80 elites or so

Though ofc the hound/mutant wave modifiers inflate the number by a lot

[normal pawn]

ok thats it
You cant just make the zip 22

[quasi glade]

But those are also kinda useless because you aren't throwing grenades at them so you aren't gaining anything probably, by killing them

Does that talent also restore your team's grenades??

[normal pawn]

the 5% one?

no

[marsh condor]

But I can make the Zip 44

[quasi glade]

That's literally so bad lol

I'd understand if it had a 5% chance for every teammate, at least...

[south garnet]

it's a worthy sacrifice for The Meme

[normal pawn]

i mean-

to be fair

[tall torrent]

It’s ok
But you already have confirmed kill / out for blood / exhilarating takedown to regen toughness without tag input

[normal pawn]

There might be an issue with it fudging with rock CD

And FS is probably coping with "BUT 5% OGRE NUKE"

[quasi glade]

But that's all personal

[raw steppe]

The 5% talent is really good fyi

It gives you a lot of grenades

[tall torrent]

Zealot has infinite toughness regen
Ogryn has infinite toughness regen
Psyker has infinite toughness regen
Vet is supposed to learn how to manage toughness

[normal pawn]

its good for when you need it but like man

[quasi glade]

Oh noooo wish it worked that way

[gusty grail]

Yes but I want more Grenades, and I know I shouldn't

[raw steppe]

To be fair vet also has infijite toughness

[quasi glade]

I never really felt like 1 grenade per 60s wasn't enough

[normal pawn]

Vet has the benefit of having a fuckton of toughness damage reduction.

[hollow ibex]

Sounds like a you problem

[gusty grail]

I don't have toughness issues on vet, is that unusual or am I just able to read what the skills do?

[quasi glade]

If they had infinite toughness they wouldn't ever go down

[tall torrent]

That’s their skill issue

[hollow turtle]

SKILL ISSUE

[quasi glade]

It's a me problem that I have enough grenades?

[normal pawn]

Like, 33% ontop of 75% ontop of spamming shout

[safe dawn]

Vet also gets free toughness regen by simply... being a few feet away from enemies

[raw steppe]

Thats like saying "my dps is enough"

Sure man if you're happy with it

[gusty grail]

I assume he picked bad skills and is mad about it

[hollow ibex]

Yes. If you have enough grenades, you aren’t a grenade enjoyer

[raw steppe]

But i can do more with more nades

[hollow turtle]

If you ain't maintaining your toughness regen, wtf are you doing as a vet? You think you can health tank this game?

[hollow ibex]

No such thing as “enough grenades”

[quasi socket]

enough grenades means everything is dead

[south garnet]

Volley fire feat did a lot of people's play habits dirty in the long run, I suspect

[quasi socket]

so no, never enough

[idle swallow]

What's the dump stat you want on the plasma gun? Thermal resist?

[raw steppe]

Thermal but its like a staff

You want as high rolls on everything

[quasi glade]

I don't understand, why even play a team game when this is your attitude? Stick to soloing with bots

[raw steppe]

If you can

Its better if you can get 80/80/80/75/70 distribution on a 380

If you can

[idle swallow]

Dang alright, back to the lottery

[quasi socket]

yeah they dont allow that. and most pug groups i hit, 1-2 people just play "solo adventure: let the team die, the game"

[safe dawn]

(70/70)

[south garnet]

Bots are too much assistance, playing with pubs is a handicap to test my skills

[hollow turtle]

I'm so confused. Shout regens toughness to full. Infil restores toughness, and volley fire used in combination with all the toughness passives? aiming for the head is not hard unless you're using a full auto. Then just mag dump at eye level.)

[quasi glade]

This isn't a DPS chasing sim, you can have a lot of DPS that never helped anyone. And relying on a 5% chance is just... Yeah, sometimes it will give you a lot, but sometimes it will give you nothing at all. Y'all never played gachas?

[terse idol]

Whew I went back far
But like, it's 10% of 100% so it's 10 toughness

[normal pawn]

That said, My current hangup with Vet atm is...
Shovel, Chaxe or Chword?
And if so which mk?

[terse idol]

Its not... that useful

The extra damage is more important

[bitter turtle]

disagree

frags save runs

way more than feeding toughness to a team

[terse idol]

Its not max toughness I hope you understand is what I'm gonna say

[bitter turtle]

and yes

i play gachas

[terse idol]

Its based off the 100 base toughness

[bitter turtle]

actually

a lot

lul

[hollow turtle]

Currently just using powersword for when the crowd control is lacking.

[hollow ibex]

Any shovel and don’t use mk iv chaxe. I prefer the old chsword.

[bitter turtle]

but there are so many elite/disabler kills going on 5% is pretty high

[gusty grail]

The new hotness is BM redhaad axe too just 1 shot brusers through walkers ez

[quasi socket]

brb need popcorn for this

[bitter turtle]

idk if you play AM but you literally have specialists coming from behind almost nonstop lul

[tall torrent]

My point the whole time is that the modifiers are not must-takes
If I had extra points for it I’d grab toughness regen

But getting to drop significantly more grenades to wipe rooms is more valuable to me than feeding toughness to my random team who don’t know their class’ roles and can’t manage their toughness well

[raw steppe]

Try playing more auric histg

The 5% turns into like

[fleet garden]

any vet changes in the patch today

[raw steppe]

20 extra grenades a game

Very significant

[south garnet]

nah

[bitter turtle]

20 might be overselling it but its definitely a very significant amount

[quasi socket]

no

[fleet garden]

ty

[quasi socket]

plasma bug still present too

[bitter turtle]

evene 1 grenade can save a run with the knockdown usually

so getting even 8 or 9 more panic buttons (very reasonable) is huge

[tall torrent]

My whole argument for demo team is because one time I died, teammate res’d me, but there were 6 maulers + 12 ragers on them, and somehow some way a dude killed 2 hounds and 1 trappers, all 3 specialist kills proc’d demo team then I got to drop 3 grenades and saved the run

That one time is enough justification for me to take it on any build I can afford it

[normal pawn]

.. Is the major difference between the two new vet shovels just the moveset?

[gusty grail]

Yeah

[south garnet]

that plus the prep and recovery time of the special

[forest scaffold]

time to try this out

[bitter turtle]

do you count the slower special on mk7 as part o the moveset

[safe dawn]

the major difference between all similar weapons that are differentiated by Marks is just the moveset

[south garnet]

special is slower on the 7

[bitter turtle]

they do identical dmg if that's what you're asking

[south garnet]

but if you one-shot what you hit then it's not a huge deal

[safe dawn]

sometimes they have different specials or are truly different like the Revolvers

[normal pawn]

... mnnn

The recovery is a bit of an issue but thanks

[gusty grail]

Get ready to Parry stuff you could have just killed instead

[south garnet]

yea, I prefer the 3 for that reason, plus the moveset on the 3 I actually prefer in mixed hordes

[forest scaffold]

I refuse to compare weapons to the combat axes or power swords

because they're both blatantly overpowered

[south garnet]

And if it's just poxwalkers or whatever then it works just fine for 'regular' horde control/clear

[normal pawn]

Yeeaaa

[bitter turtle]

it does feel hard to justify

shovel

vs psword

tbh

the unyielding dmg on shovel is so bad

[forest scaffold]

And this is why you just don't.

Also, that's what uncanny strike is for.

+rending on chained weakspot hits

[tall torrent]

Mk3 has wide sweep high stagger low dmg horde clear, but the folded atks are really strong at single target
Mk7 has by far the most balanced moveset for single target and horde clear
SI has the best light atk moveset

[normal pawn]

I'm mostly just doing some prep to deal with a later HM run on twins

[forest scaffold]

really shores up the bad adms

[bitter turtle]

its still really slow against monstros

[forest scaffold]

I mean

literally everything is

[bitter turtle]

im used to my melee actually being able to kil them lul

[forest scaffold]

but like

Thammer, Power Sword, combat axes

and uh

Gunlugger Ult

[bitter turtle]

knife ain't bad

[forest scaffold]

[south garnet]

I've been on that new chainaxe lately though, comfy beater

[normal pawn]

I'm partially considering a chax or chword, And only been considering shovel because defense stats

[tall torrent]

That’s one other reason I take axe over shovel

[bitter turtle]

i've solo'd monstros a lot with stabbo

[normal pawn]

And the crusher/mauler potential

[marsh condor]

I honestly prefer a chain weapon with Bloodletter.

[forest scaffold]

I can solo plague ogryn and beast of nurgle

I cannot solo chaos spawn

[tall torrent]

Chainaxes are very fun rn

[forest scaffold]

maybe in an empty room

but as soon as enemies are thrown into the mix

nawp

[tall torrent]

Chainsword I think mk4 is tolerable but mk13g is meh

[forest scaffold]

naw mk13g is pog af

[marsh condor]

For killing some heavy enemies

[bitter turtle]

i have to clear enemies off before i start soloing a spawn

[forest scaffold]

wtf

[bitter turtle]

ive done it before though

[quasi glade]

True, nothing like a team full of stealthelots and infilterans

[south garnet]

I came around on the 13

[hollow ibex]

Mk IV still bad no?

[bitter turtle]

cause yeah they're really fasto

[tall torrent]

What’s the build u run with it

[normal pawn]

I'm just running a CIAG for ranged to burst out that 40% brittleness w/ the Tag

[quasi glade]

That would change things a bit, but is there a source for that?

[tall torrent]

Feels like mk4 just has entirely superior moveset to mk13g

Better horde clear
Safe single target (L1 -> push atk -> L4, repeat)

[quasi glade]

Yeah, so keep the frags for when you will need them to save the run

[quasi socket]

the nutty amount of testing people have done on this server because FS likes to obfuscate game information for us

[bitter turtle]

yeah just never use anything just in case you need it :^)

[quasi glade]

I agree that they aren't must-takes, I disagree that something like demo team is a better pick.

[bitter turtle]

seriously though, bad situations happen a lot in AM

more nades is always better

its one of vet's best tools

and you are fed

alot of fucking nades

in auric mael

with demo team

[forest scaffold]

mk13g chainsword is good.

[tall torrent]

My suggestion
Play tinkered frag + demo stockpile + demo team for a couple games

[forest scaffold]

and I refuse to believe otherwise because its just true.

Yes, its no combat axe or powersword

[south garnet]

"We want people to feel out what's good for them in the game, explore and discover stuff, not use math and a calculator to determine a 'best' build!" -> Obfuscating or blatantly misrepresenting basic gameplay mechanics -> Players forced to use math and a calculator just to figure out how basic fucking gameplay elements work

[forest scaffold]

but literally nothing is, and rashad/antax/mk3/mk6 all need to be tuned down massively(Mostly thanks to brutal momentum)

as long as that blessing exists, nothing can truly be balanced

[gusty grail]

Does Tinker increase the damage of the bleed?

[quasi socket]

yeah, no matter what you try to do this day and age, people WILL find a way to figure out the info that is hidden "for our benefit"

[raw steppe]

No but keep in mind how strong radius is

Area is radius squared

[quasi glade]

I mean it's your choice, but will you just stop taking it if it gives you 0 nades when you need them?

[forest scaffold]

Also, I like the lawbringer shotgun

solid weapon

[gusty grail]

I guess I need to test it, imo tinker isn't worth the 2 points to get there

[forest scaffold]

give it a whirl(ignore the special round, its useless)

[gusty grail]

Skattershot + Manstopoer and you will flatten hordes though

[south garnet]

Tinker on frags is massive

[raw steppe]

You get about 56% more area coverage from 25% radius increase

[quasi socket]

for the damage listed, im guessing its the initial hit from the explosion for the +25%?

[forest scaffold]

Full Bore+No Respite is objectively better

in every single situation

As like

[raw steppe]

I'm like 80% sure its only the initial hit for the dmg yeah

[forest scaffold]

a counterpoint

[raw steppe]

But you take it for the radius

[quasi socket]

yeah, understandable

more bleeds = more better

[raw steppe]

Its actually insane

[tall torrent]

It almost never works that way though?

It’s like a safe guarantee that you’ll always have grenades to throw at enemies

[normal pawn]

FS really trying to make us play MTG without explaining any of the card effect mechanics

[raw steppe]

It hits the entire map

[tall torrent]

Regardless of the situation

[raw steppe]

With that node

[quasi glade]

Well... Yeah? That's the point Better than using it all on random elites who can be one or twoshotted in melee and then begging RNG for the 5% to proc

[tall torrent]

It’s taken for the radius

[raw steppe]

Area = pi R^2 is the key here

[normal pawn]

"What the fuck is rending?"
"Whats brittleness?"
"Whats these other mechanics that dont get explained?"

[raw steppe]

Its absolutely disgusting

[quasi glade]

The 5% never work against you?

Are you sure you aren't just being consistently kept stocked by the restock talent which provides like 20-25 nades in a 30 min game?

[quasi socket]

yeah, i get that. just more lazy FS description of what it does

[raw steppe]

Not really lol

You just use the grenades when you get them

[south garnet]

This is actually almost literally the case - it's called 'ivory tower game design', not coined directly by Monte Cook but popularized by him (a WotC designer), and it involves including deliberate trap options that are objectively worse that do not appear that way on surface level, to create a direct reward for game familiarity which favors veteran players over new ones

[normal pawn]

(Yes, i'm aware rending is armor pen/bypass and brittleness is extra damage... Thanks to a wiki.)

[raw steppe]

And if you dont get them then whatever

[terse idol]

You'll likely always make grenades when you need them

[raw steppe]

You play normally until you get them

[terse idol]

Because of how many elites you're gonna encounter

[hearty kernel]

To be fair; joking aside you can kinda guess what they do; maybe bar rending

[terse idol]

Second uh

[gusty grail]

The harder they mission the more nades u get

[terse idol]

If you do take the 5% grenade regen you forego the 1 free nade every 60s

Yeah

If you play hunting grounds

You might honestly make back all your grenades from 0

[tall torrent]

It’s really just taken so you can drop significantly more grenades when the game is throwing all the elites & specials they can at u

[quasi glade]

I guess we should all run Competitive Urge as well because we'll always have it

[tall torrent]

It trivializes rager packs

[gusty grail]

I throw nades at those dogs, it's free realistate

[quasi socket]

<-- runs stockpile + demo team in most builds

[tall torrent]

It trivializes shotgunner packs

It ruins maulers

[terse idol]

Uh oh, I mean I didn't mean to offend
Competitive urge will actually proc all the time because hordes

Its decent

[raw steppe]

It also simplifies bulwark packs

[normal pawn]

dawg i still dont even understand what finesse is.

[terse idol]

And I had to learn

[tall torrent]

^
This is a big deal

[raw steppe]

And makes reapers trivial

[serene sage]

https://imgur.com/a/6Hh3LAH
I found my old (patch 15) compilation, please ignore the few first pics, but the match history shows that 100 per person is actually quite low

[raw steppe]

I think a bleed nade does about 75% of a reapers hp

Baseline

[serene sage]

im hitting closer to 200 usually

[quasi socket]

from my understanding, melee attack speed/crit chance

[gusty grail]

My favorite frag trick - massed gunners behind cover. Works insanely well

[raw steppe]

Due to unyielding bleed adm

[hearty kernel]

probably something to do with movement bonus or probably something with dodging bullets while sprinting ex ex

[terse idol]

Consider you kill nearly 2k enemies in rhe game and competitive urge will always be up

Technically

[tall torrent]

It’s just incredibly versatile

[hearty kernel]

again you can kinda guess work possibilities

[raw steppe]

Frags are just absolutely disgusting lol

[quasi glade]

Nah, I'm not offended, but relying on such a low chance is not to my taste especially when giving up some utility for the whole team for it

[raw steppe]

I dont always take all 3 nodes

[serene sage]

it's critical/headshot damage!

[hearty kernel]

LOL

that doesn't sound like finesse

[terse idol]

Well its the grand scheme of things

[tall torrent]

It’s like 1 grenade refill for every 20 elite/special ur team kills

[gusty grail]

Hmmm is competitive urge worth it?

[tall torrent]

Which is really not that low

[raw steppe]

But radius plus 60s regen plus free nades on elite kills together

Is really insane

You dont NEED it

I only have it on some builds

[terse idol]

I'm still testing it so, I'm not convinced yet

[raw steppe]

But its really good

[terse idol]

I don't like rng either

But competitive urge on all kills

[gusty grail]

I guess u can see how often it's up

[terse idol]

Procs consistently

[serene sage]

yeah, who would have guess stopping power is armor pen

[quasi socket]

in a "gotta go fast team", maybe?

[terse idol]

Killing hordes will make you proc it regardless

[south garnet]

If you can afford tinker on frags you'll always take it. Like a rich person with a private jet

[hearty kernel]

i mean you tell me finese i think movement mechanic; seems a tad wonky

[serene sage]

I don't disagree with you haha. FS do that shit intentionally

[south garnet]

Up until two patches ago, both defenses and mobility affected some of the same stats too lol

[normal pawn]

The point is: Its obfuscating information that should be VERY CLEAR AND CONSICE.
Especially since its Basic +% stuff and not "Every 20 bullets a lucky visitor will send a grenade from god"

[quasi socket]

makes me think of d&D 3rd edition weapons

[south garnet]

The definitions aren't great, but at least they did eventually add the ability to Inspect

... not that it helps you figure everything out, but some of the basic weapon properties at least

[serene sage]

speaking of obscurity, remember Thy Grenade Be Swift?

I still mourn its death

[terse idol]

All I will say is uh

[south garnet]

I honestly can't believe they removed that, in the same game that they let zealot keep the 'ignore armor on chastise use' bug around as a permanent ult feature (with a slight tweak)

[terse idol]

People build their own survivability

Support builds that give toughness especially like Born leader

[quasi glade]

Yeah a couple outliers there, but a bunch are also closer to what I thought

Also, do disablers count as specials for demo team?

[terse idol]

Are prettty bad

Because they give small amounts of miniscule toughness

Also lots of ults give back toughness anyways

So any toughness a vet gives is uh...

not that great

Or well theough

The talents
VOC trumps all

[tall torrent]

Scab trapper
Poxburster
Pox hound
Dreg tox flamer
Scab flamer
Mutant
Scab sniper
Scab bomber
Scab rager
Dreg rager
Dreg gunner
Scab gunner
Scab shotgunner
Dreg shotgunner
Scab mauler
Crusher
Bulwark
Reaper

[south garnet]

wonder if psykers have gotten over the removal of the smite bug on surge without a buff to replace it yet

[tall torrent]

All of those contribute to demo team

[quasi glade]

Well, you want to be as close to 100% toughness as you can, no?

[tall torrent]

Basically anything u can tag that isn’t a boss

Contributes

[quasi glade]

Otherwise you drip health

[terse idol]

The damage that matters isn't gonna get restored through passive toughness generation

[normal pawn]

(Also: I really wish that defense would modify block efficiency.)

[terse idol]

This is why we have large burst toughness

Like VOC