veteran-class

[bitter turtle]

rending past 100% only works at 1/4th effectiveness

so if you have 10% rending

and you already are at 100

it only goes to 102.5

[sturdy herald]

Perfect! That actually answers exactly what I was wondering. Thank you. ❤️

[bitter turtle]

also there is a cap for bonus rending but i forgot how much it is

irrelevant for plasma anyway

i think its 100%

but idk

[sturdy herald]

Speaking of, what's a good dump stat on the plasma? Charge rate?

[serene sage]

actually why does plasma say 594 damage and does 647 to unarmored lol

[low oar]

Pretty much since plasma should be uncharged spam

[bitter turtle]

idk if they fixed the bug

but you want charge rate to be at a certain number

or you lose dmg

because lul fatshark

and yes

lose dmg on UNCHARGED shots

idk if they fixed the bug tho

[serene sage]

allegedly they did

[bitter turtle]

i hate plasma so >:(

[sturdy herald]

What's the breakpoint?

[serene sage]

they mentioned it in the patch note

[bitter turtle]

ah

they fixed it then

[serene sage]

now whether or not it's ACTUALLY fixed

[bitter turtle]

so dont worry about it

[serene sage]

who knows

[bitter turtle]

lul

ye im not testing

[crude ermine]

I thought the dump stat was the one on the far right till using it and and only firing two shots

I made a judgmental error

[bitter turtle]

its ok skadi

plasma is busted anyway

[crude ermine]

Really is

[bitter turtle]

i have a garbage one i brought to HM and it worked anyway

[trim steppe]

plasma is one of those nice guns where the blessings dont matter too much, so even like a grey meh plasma is still really great

[frank ether]

this video should be on the launcher

[crude ermine]

Unfortunately with it being so busted you'll it'll suck the bad players into it like a vortex

But that can be said for anything good ig but like

[frank ether]

also I agree grenade ''keystone'' better than all vet keystone

just build for shredders

[bitter turtle]

i find it harder to build for nades than i did in the past

i used to pick up grenadier too

😔

now im lucky if i can fit demo team

[frank ether]

I have all the nade perks except +1

but plot twist

[bitter turtle]

even

[frank ether]

its a knife build

[bitter turtle]

TWINNED

[frank ether]

yes

[bitter turtle]

BLAST

wow

[frank ether]

even TWINKED BLAST

[bitter turtle]

this isnt a "it secretly removes melee hitstun" situation right

[frank ether]

nah

I just take it cause funny

[sturdy herald]

Guess I should've written it down earlier, but -- what blessings on the plasma? Gets Hot + Blaze Away?

[bitter turtle]

yeah

but it doesn't really matter

plasma blessings are very mediocre in the first place

[sturdy herald]

Plasma isn't one of those "make or break" blessing weapons, huh?

Gotcha.

OK, one last plasma question for now -- what's better perks-wise, +Caparace or +Unyielding?

If I could only get one, obviously.

(Or is there a better one I'm missing?)

[gilded wraith]

Any changes for this one?

[mystic hull]

any perk/blessing advice?

[trim steppe]

Yeah plasma functions fine with no blessings, so I like gloryhunter for defense and gets hot for crits. I'd probably take carapace over unyeilding

[sturdy herald]

Thank you!

[trim steppe]

I havent used that in a while, does it even do damage to carapace? I'd probably switch that to maniac

[raw steppe]

I would recommend unyielding since I think you hit a breakpoint on bulwarks

[gilded wraith]

Slug does pretty good against carapace.

[gilded wraith]

Thanks, I'll give it a try.

[raw steppe]

And it also helps against slugs

[versed merlin]

oh yeah agri shotty doesnt need flakiac if you're using the slugs right?

[paper brook]

https://youtube.com/shorts/TV7AWBYMJ1A

[gilded wraith]

Seems to oneshot most of the flak enemies with a weakpoint.

[gusty grail]

I call this "The Lazy Vet"

Just shoot everything

if you get caught out reloading or something the axe will take care of it

and if you run into more trouble just throw frags

[placid portal]

amazing 1 grenade = 6 gunner kills

[gusty grail]

nah but if you see a bunch of shooters clustered up behind cover you can throw three grenades and wipe em. easist use of 3 frags is just like using the ogrn frag genade

the bleeds stack up and kill a bunch of things

[placid portal]

It'd be funny if vets can just tie up all the grenades and toss em all at once

[gusty grail]

I'd be happy with that

[placid portal]

gotta love how when the soldiers first saw a giant metal cart they decided, "Let's tie up some grenades and throw it at that MF"

[south garnet]

it's pretty funny tossing a single tinker frag and seeing a twinned nade casually underhand out into the same crowd, then putting down a picnic blanket while the entire room dies and you instantly get back your spent nade thanks to the elite kill replen proc'ing

grenadier frag builds are just gross as hell, I mean really sick stuff

[gusty grail]

I suppose if I give up keystones I could have all teh fun nade toys

so much random chance though

[delicate moat]

with enhanced blitz its actually hilarious

[gusty grail]

having 1 extra nade a minute and 5% to get more nade is enough without wasting points imo

[placid portal]

That's like....

2 point

[south garnet]

it's very forgiving to do so if you bring weapons that don't lean heavily on perks to make them function. You can take plasma/PS/etc. any of the lazy weapon combos and you're good, even including QoL picks like weakspot and etc.

[gusty grail]

I know - but consider that having MORE NADES is like 2 poitns more, tinkerer is also generally 2 points more

[vernal harbor]

I recently started my grenadier/gunner build and it’s indeed crazy

I’m throwing about 2-3 grenades a minute

[gusty grail]

at least I assume most vets go down the middle tree often for toughness damage reduction

[south garnet]

tbh my most effective builds don't go more than halfway down any of the bottom tree segments

[gusty grail]

hmmmmmmmm

[south garnet]

I have some keystone builds I like but they definitely fit more into a niche than my "I will live through minimum one pub match slotted full of single-cell organisms before I go to bed tonight no matter what because I'm sick of this shit" builds

[gusty grail]

IDK - for my current project having extra damage on tagged enemies really makes the braced auto shine

[placid portal]

or just....

Aim and get weakpoint

[gusty grail]

How much damage do u get per hit with columbus weakpoint

[south garnet]

Building a tree to spec for a specific weapon is definitely useful, but there's value in choosing a loadout to fit a tree layout as well

[placid portal]

since it's a 2.7x multiplier 70*2.7 = 168 per weakpoint

Still fires a brrrrt

Kinda insane

[gusty grail]

shrug so it does body shot damage of an Agripina braced auto when u hit the weakpoint?

[placid portal]

It's even astounding how the stability is super stable

[gusty grail]

that makes me wonder.. what's the point? kek

[south garnet]

I vastly prefer colum IAG on zealot honestly

15 bullets to melt a crusher with a crit build and a chastise

[placid portal]

Well at least you can hit something with IAGs vs Brautos at 20ms at full auto

[south garnet]

the world is made of ice cream and you are the scoop

[gusty grail]

zelot is kind of a pointless class imo

once again I've found a build that makes em pointless

why waste your ult to shoot a crusher with an autogun

[placid portal]

wait

[south garnet]

because with a crit build you have your ult on tap

[placid portal]

you don't engage in glorious melee?

[south garnet]

and you do insane damage with constant crit strings

[gusty grail]

(crit with melee)

[gilded wraith]

I'm trying to remember, where there some weapons that automatically have suppression immunity?

*were

[south garnet]

heavy sword 6 plus CIAG crit build + chastise

[wintry bay]

brunt is laughing at me now, rolled 70 chainaxes and the highest 6 out of that all have 80% mobility AND defence. What even are the odds of that

[gusty grail]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIV10wDMA8U&ab_channel=VicidPlays

[placid portal]

Indeed, Lucius & Plasma

[gilded wraith]

Brunt cares.

[gusty grail]

no need to ult

just shoot

ded crusher

[gilded wraith]

Thank you! Was hoping that shotgun alternative ammunition made the list.

[south garnet]

Anecdotal, but I'm absolutely convinced that mobility is weighted to roll higher on high base weapons. Not even confirmation bias with this, anecdotally anything 375+ for me is practically guaranteed to have maxed mobility dumped damage/stopping power/crit/etc.

[wintry bay]

is it because so many people say speed is everything? Dont bother running damnation if ya dont have a knife build

[gilded wraith]

Does Competitive Urge become viable in Damnation with the higher enemy concentration?

[south garnet]

Sure, but this goes for all kinds of abilities depending on what your build is. You've got to keep in mind chastise also staggers, restores 50% toughness, and with the aforementioned crit build you'll have not only 2 charges whenever you want them but you'll top them back up the second you start killing everything again, which is when you want them anyway

Plus, the crit keystone is basically 'all crit all the time', plus huge TDR with the top right node

you become a tank that shoots yellow numbers that forget armor exists

[gilded wraith]

And critting constantly doesn't require a stamina drain.

[gusty grail]

pretty sure u only get your ult back from melee crits

[south garnet]

don't get me wrong, I'm a vet main, but zealot crit build done right is absolutely mad

[south garnet]

nay

unless I'm wrong in which case I haven't noticed so it hasn't been an issue

[south garnet]

even when I'm wrong I'm always right

[gusty grail]

Zelot is worse at range than a vet, worse at melee than an ogrn (and worse at range than an ogrn) and less tanky than vet and ogrn

Imo*

I mean it's cool

but yea it's just not good

[south garnet]

First point I'd generally agree with a couple exceptions, second point part one agree, second point part two disagree, third point incredibly heavy disagree with the caveat that knife zealots exist

[gusty grail]

Also Fury of the faithful doesn't make your range crit either

[versed merlin]

@serene sage you were right, determined node is all that was needed to perform good with bolter. also exec stance is so goddamn good bc of the instant weapon swap too. that was my first bolter experience in auric since i followed your tips

[wintry bay]

fuck it ima slap rev it up and bloodletter on one of these axes and see how it do

[midnight totem]

blood letter is nice

guarantees a kill on a mauler even if it doesn't kill outright

[gusty grail]

yep - basically gives you higher break points

good for bosses too

[south garnet]

You're correct, however I just asked to verify because I can't look myself and

[serene sage]

Damn son that's some sick ass numbers
Good job!

[gritty swallow]

which one yall think?

[south garnet]

Gotta love fatshark tooltips

[midnight totem]

first one

[gritty swallow]

ty!

what perks and blessings do i want on it?

[versed merlin]

i only find myself charging when im about to deal with crushers, so i dont really care about charge rate at all,id go with the second one

[gusty grail]

It's ok. Like most Zelot enjoyers, you are simply missinformed

[versed merlin]

maniac + whatever, could go uniyelding or unarmored so you can one shot gunners

[south garnet]

I'm primarily a vet but I appreciate the concern

[serene sage]

damn someone is a little classist

[gritty swallow]

ty what about blessings?

[serene sage]

gets hot blaze away

[south garnet]

The "you're too ignorant to know what's good for you or anyone else" mindset is always a cool one to see making the rounds

[serene sage]

though you can get away with volatile, shattering or even glory hunter

seriously, plasma don't care much about blessings

[versed merlin]

gets hot + blaze away. ik some people prefer shattering impact instead of blaze away, but thats simply if you're looking to deal some dmg against bosses, but if thats the case, just go bolter instead

[gritty swallow]

cool cool thanks guys!

[versed merlin]

when you get bored of plasma - which you will if you're a vet main -, take a peak at boltgun, that thing is monstruous

[serene sage]

bolt is solid A+ tier for me

[gusty grail]

Then when you are done with silly guns try the Revolver

[serene sage]

with S being plasma and revolver

but i love the bolt

[versed merlin]

plasma and revolver are effortless imo

i gave up plasma for bolt and revolver for agri shotty

[gritty swallow]

i main psyker but im bored of it so i was thinking about a revolver vet but figured id just go for the staple with plasma

[south garnet]

agri shotty with left keystone is wild

[serene sage]

yeah, boltgun is fun to play bc it's a little clunky

at least for me

[versed merlin]

i also enjoy the bolter sound effect when firing

[serene sage]

is it?

[versed merlin]

does the slug animation gets faster if you take reload speed node?

[midnight mortar]

I'll take your word for it. Personally my experience has been dubious. The only time I've ever seen an agri shotgun left tree vet was in a Twins lobby where he only dealt 8.8k damage and died to the first wave of elite spawns.

[south garnet]

yea, full bore and the +damage on stagger. I have the rending node on there plus the middle tree one, extra stacks for standing still. The slug is an absolute monster and when you add in exe stance it gets gross. And yea reload speed looks like it stacks on the top left one

[serene sage]

wait does full bore proc on special?

[south garnet]

Yep

[serene sage]

oh shit

brb

[south garnet]

lmao

right?

[versed merlin]

lol

[serene sage]

honestly i know full bore exists

[south garnet]

A couple regular shots and you're at max finesse stacks too

[serene sage]

never though of that combo for whatever reason

[south garnet]

the spread is so tight on it

[serene sage]

that's what she said

[versed merlin]

wait full bore doesnt proc on first special hit if that was your question

[south garnet]

I found it a lot harder to take advantage of with the lawbringer, even with its kinda-neat special with extra cleave during hordes

[versed merlin]

but does procs on subsequent shots, even if its special

[serene sage]

yeah ig if it procs then it's still value town

imma invest

[versed merlin]

yeah it buffs for like 300 flat dmg without any talent

i did the tests myself

[south garnet]

yea this, it procs it so keep shooting, but with the keystone reload and the reload node you can also rack in another special almost instantly

[versed merlin]

hmmmmmmmm

what reload speed options does vet has besides the left upper branch?

[serene sage]

I listen to league music while playing darktide

how heretical is it

[versed merlin]

very

[serene sage]

damn

[south garnet]

I think only the top right, which is extra speed when reloading with ammo remaining

[midnight mortar]

Sneed music.

[junior grail]

I listen to weeb music while darktide

[gritty swallow]

okay next question, havent used my vet since talent rework. can anyone help me with a build for powersword and plasma? I'm thinking rez voice of command but idk

[serene sage]

look at this beautiful law though

❤️

i dont have an agri shotty

brunt time ig

[versed merlin]

agri is fun

[south garnet]

powersword and plasma are incredibly forgiving in that you don't really need particular nodes to get close to the most out of them, but with these two specifically make sure you take weakspot node on the left side - whatever your build

[serene sage]

wait it's agri right?

[junior grail]

You use krak with that?

[serene sage]

for slug

kantrael is fire yes?

[junior grail]

Yup

[gritty swallow]

ty

[serene sage]

who wants to bet how much I would need to spend for a decent agri shotty

[versed merlin]

mf flexing plasteel on us

20k if you're really unlucky

and i hope you are

[south garnet]

It will take 60k for my advice and 3k to do the upgrade

:^)

[junior grail]

Wasnt there someone with 100k plasteel?

[serene sage]

azreal has like 200k

i used to have 100k

[versed merlin]

🥹

[junior grail]

Ah yea azreal

[serene sage]

until i invest in more bolter and columnus

[south garnet]

It's a good thing there's no ingame credit system because I'd be in as deep as my rl mortgage

[junior grail]

My mat balance should be safe... unless they drop new weapons right atound the corner

[old quail]

i had 130k pre-pt2

and 9mil ordos

[south garnet]

some people ask me what it's like to have a net worth of negative half a million bucks. I tell them I don't know, because I feel nothing. I am numb

:^)

[serene sage]

okay after 1M ordos I have 3 candidates

[old quail]

getting a usable new revolver on vet

cost me 1.5million ordos

it was so infuriating

[junior grail]

Hadron: I'm feeling a lil bricky today...

[serene sage]

wait wtf do i want on shotty

[versed merlin]

full bore no respite

[old quail]

no respite/full bore

full left side agri shotgun is v fun

[versed merlin]

idk about perks tho

you can one shot any special with hs special

[serene sage]

F

[versed merlin]

without maniac

[south garnet]

be quick with follow up shots so you catch them in midair before they inevitably fall behind cover

and take 7 years standing up again

[serene sage]

x2

[old quail]

this is the worst part about it

[versed merlin]

call it a upgraded suppression

[old quail]

well ok its a tie between that and the lack of cleave

[wintry bay]

That was a true demo team, just did hishock with 3 shredder nade regen vets and a rumbler/frag ogryn

[old quail]

that can make some situations really fkin annoying to deal with

[serene sage]

x3

wtf

[old quail]

u can cope with unyielding

agri shotgun has p decent unyielding damage

[versed merlin]

just swap hit n run and sprint efficiency

you dont need maniac and im not even sure if you still need flak in agri shotty

so long as you're loading the slugs

and not regularly shooting

[serene sage]

maybe salvage this instead?

unaromored not bad

for gunenrs

[south garnet]

no respite only goes up to 20% anyway so t3 is perfectly fine

[serene sage]

yeah but its bst is sub 370

i hate it

[south garnet]

2% damage is less than you do to your butthole during a strenuous shit

mobility aint no thang

[versed merlin]

lmao what

[serene sage]

aight I settled with this

thanks for your help

[south garnet]

more than good enough to give it a run and tell us you hate it

[serene sage]

i hate it

[static quest]

I like this variation of the shotgun for some reason

[wintry bay]

thats almost an exact copy of what i run, not meta for a reason but fun af

[serene sage]

it's 130AM so ya boy needs sleep, ima test in psyk then go for a run tmr i think

[versed merlin]

this is the talent tree i cooked for my agri shotty, running it with new shovel

[serene sage]

you got left side build?

i want wanna snuper shotty

[wintry bay]

wait did i miss something? is agri suddenly considered good by most people now?

[versed merlin]

no i hate left side, but i respect 1000% people who runs it

[versed merlin]

we engaged in a topic about agri shotty with left side keystone

but agri shotty is good, its just that there are better options

such as revolver

[versed merlin]

im about to steal this

[south garnet]

tailor to (your personal terrible objectively worse) taste of course

[wintry bay]

idk how people use that keystone, every time i've tried making use of it not moving constantly makes me anxious

[south garnet]

You never don't move, is the secret, you just keep killing

Unless you have the benefit of a big wind up thanks to a long hallway or open space, or arriving via elevator anyway in which case stacks up

The main benefit of that bottom right node is to pad you a little bit during ebbs where you don't have to move, but it's not the primary way to build stacks

[serene sage]

okay it 3 shot crushers on special

[white minnow]

hit heads and you'll maintain it

[serene sage]

this truly feels like bolter with extra steps

[white minnow]

3 seconds is fairly long, and it still maintains it for 1 second on weakspot hit

and the +7.5% finesse damage per stack is pretty sweet

[wintry bay]

is yours knocking crushers on their ass with bore/hs?

[serene sage]

yep

[white minnow]

yeah it's pretty nice for bosses and situations where you're just holding out at an area

[south garnet]

exactamundo

[south garnet]

pretty funny watching a boss waddle up to you, seeing the edges of your screen blur and blasting it to hell and back

[white minnow]

mitigating the on-kill nature of it makes it quite better than the 15 stack one

[wintry bay]

cool cool wasnt sure if the +carapace was something for that. Fav part of that shotty is the longrange shove of its special saves so many teamates if you have an eye open for it

[old quail]

it being finesse and not weakspot is a very uh

decision

[south garnet]

it is a little strange given the proclivity of weakspot elsewhere in the tree but eh, whatever

[wintry bay]

how does finesse do anyways? that just crit damage or what

[south garnet]

crit and weakspot damage

[placid kelp]

how do you guys like the new shovels on vet?

[south garnet]

shovel good

[wintry bay]

personally i lov'm but i also run on the regular board damnation

aurics just too much all the time

[white minnow]

don't worry i'm totally prescribing to the intended marksman playstyle with my crit columnus

[placid kelp]

just got thrust 4 and wanting to slap on it something

[serene sage]

wait a second wtf
Boltgun can't do this

this is illegal

oh no

[wintry bay]

EMbrace the agri brother

just my personal tip, run that shotty with both reload talents. It helps. A lot

[serene sage]

do i need Determine for this thing?

how bad is suppresion sway?

[wintry bay]

havnt counted but i think it beats plasma in reload time 0-13 rounds

[serene sage]

im talking dueling gunners at 20m out

[wintry bay]

its not too bad, can still get hits pretty consistent and if its not a hs itll still knockem on their ass

[gilded wraith]

wish the slug act a bit more like the revolver for targeting and cleave.

[old quail]

shotguns are fairly suppression resistant

[wintry bay]

fox how the hell does having that ui all over the middle of the screen not enrage you? that pic alone is already bothering me

[gilded wraith]

Nice, frees up a talent point.

[serene sage]

nah it's nice, im one of those freaks who count down my confirmed kill and redirect fire buffs

[south garnet]

He sees the light

[serene sage]

so it's right there and I can see

[wintry bay]

you got one of them 40 inch tv screens dont you

[wintry bay]

counting is for ogryns silly

[versed merlin]

thats not a degenerate room

[serene sage]

nah just a normal 27 inch monitor 👍

[serene sage]

it can be sometimes...

you don't know the things I wathc on that monitor

[old quail]

[serene sage]

anyway, im sold on the agri meme

if the night wasn't too late i would play...

[wintry bay]

one screen for playing, the other for elevator rides i like it

[quick moth]

What's the best version of the helbore?

[serene sage]

All good, up to your preference

Most popular though is mk 2 and 3 I think

[quick moth]

Which has the best sights? Lol I'll check those out then

[serene sage]

Hahahaha

Next question

[thorn yoke]

I think people prefer 2's sights. by like a smidge. They're all pretty bad

[midnight mortar]

They're all equally garbage.

If it weren't for the weapon customization mod, I wouldn't be using the mk2.

[quick moth]

May have to use the weapon mod yeah

[thorn yoke]

And fwiw, Mk1 and Mk2 have the same bayonet. Mk3 is really powerful but its bayonet is not good

Power is proportional to charge time on the gun. Power from weakest per shot to strongest per shot is Mk 2, Mk1, Mk 3

[minor copper]

I personally would use mk1 and mk3 for some reason mk2 isn’t doing the work it has weird damage numbers

[wintry bay]

why does the heavy las have a better ranged sight than the hellbore/headhunter? What profane logic is used there shark

[midnight mortar]

The mk2 benefits from unarmored. That and flak allows you to one tap headshot both types of gunners in exec stance uncharged.

If you're looking for an MG XII equivalent, the mk2 Helbore is that but better.

[thorn yoke]

Mk2 requires you to be accurate for best effect at higher difficulty levels. Mk 1 and Mk3 allow you to be a lot lazier and just center of mass shooters

[midnight mortar]

Fires faster and has higher DPS and equivalent TTK.

I would recommend avoiding the mk3 because it has input buffering problems.

[wintry bay]

i will never not center of mass/neck to head recoil. Been far too ingrained in my brain to shoot that way

[midnight mortar]

Those still haven't been fixed, if it's even at all possible to fix them.

[minor copper]

That’s why I said personally

[quick moth]

MK3 has pretty good irons imo at least in the meat grinder. Did a few full 360s around the room with consistent headshots

[midnight mortar]

The mk3's input buffer issues make it impossible to smoothly transition between charged and uncharged shots. Instead you'll just stand there not charging or shooting. And it'll happen often enough to throw off your rhythm.

[midnight mortar]

In combat the sight picture will only work against you.

Try shooting at something more than 40m away behind a railing and then repeating that against 6 more gunners and 12 shooters.

[quick moth]

Curious to see it for sure, but I'm running focus so that'll probably help a bit

[midnight mortar]

Unless you swap the sight with a mod, you'll not be able to see half of what you're shooting at let alone be mobile and shoot at the same time.

[minor copper]

I’m curious if weapon customisation will make it into the game someday at least let me pick sights and underbarrel attachments

[quick moth]

It isn't drastically different than the revolver irons, but yeah not quite as good for sure

[midnight mortar]

Unlikely given that you can use it to partially apply premium weapon skins/parts to your weapons.

[minor copper]

I don’t mean in the same way as the mod works

[midnight mortar]

Oh you just meant some of the features, not the whole mod.

[minor copper]

Yes exactly

[rose wedge]

what a great shotty

fellow Agripinaa appreciator

[quick moth]

It's really hard to give up the revolver and plasma gun. Like damn everything else just sucks damage wise comparatively

[rose wedge]

I'm a really big fan of Vraks 7 HAG

[minor copper]

Autoguns are fun give them a try

[wintry bay]

personally, i really wish revolvers couldn't deal with carapace or even flak without weakpoint hits.

(carapace at all)

their just too good at everything rn imo

[quick moth]

I think that's fair yeah still easy to headshot a mauler and crusher with them

[serene sage]

Lmao you say that. I literally brunt gamba 1M ordos and 5k plasteel on an impulse

But the gun seems fun ngl

[rose wedge]

it's great and also you get to feel a little unique loading into a match with one

[serene sage]

Yeah it got that weird bolter vibe i love it

I guess Bolter is just a perma slug agri

[quick moth]

The fire rate isn't great obviously, but krak grenades isn't really optimal

[wintry bay]

after learning the power of shredders on a full nade build i honestly just dont like kraks anymore

kill a few crushers or damage/stagger them and kill everything else in the room

with full nade regen talents ive tossed about 40 nades in a single run

[midnight mortar]

Yeah, every Veteran reaches that point eventually.

[rose wedge]

shredders are great!

[midnight mortar]

With how kraks work and how enemy density/behavior is right now, shredders end up being the best option.

[serene sage]

It truly feels like that bell curve meme

[midnight mortar]

It really is.

[rose wedge]

How do folks in this channel like their Kantrael 1a infantry lasguns?

[quick moth]

Shred grenades are too good. The revolver and plasma gun is too good. The fucking power sword with PC4 and bromentum 4 is too good.

You run those builds and gear and yeahhhh...you can handle everything easily.

[serene sage]

Be like me and hate all las guns

[midnight mortar]

I think it's a viable sidegrade to the MG XII.

[rose wedge]

Same perks and blessings?

[midnight mortar]

I still prefer the MG XII the most because of its faster TTK. But the other 2 variants are fine too.

Yeah, flak + maniac, Deadly Accurate, Headhunter.

[quick moth]

I want a damn hotshot. Las gun with penetration would be dope.

That's my issue with the laser guns - they're dinky as shit and you have to run krak grenades.

Well perhaps excluding the helbore, but that's still not easily downing a crusher and mauler

[rose wedge]

With the MG IV Lasgun is Infernus finally viable?

[quick moth]

Hmm good question maybe?

I don't have enough plasteel so y'all are gonna have to try that lol

[wanton dawn]

It literally is

[thick fossil]

Which helbore is the fast firing one?

[quick moth]

2?

[midnight mortar]

The mk2.

[rose wedge]

Okay team, are EITHER of these salvageable

Hadron is on one today tbh(not in a good way)

[midnight mortar]

I would say not really.

[thick fossil]

Ty

[midnight mortar]

Sub 70% stopping power is kinda painful.

[stark saddle]

whats the dumpstat for plasma gun?

[rose wedge]

what's the BIS PErks and Blessings for Plasma guns anyways?

[quick moth]

If you need the gets hot blessing, take it

[rose wedge]

Get Hot and Volatile....? Not sure about perks

[quick moth]

Gets hot and blaze away. Unyielding and maniacs is what I'm running

[wanton dawn]

Plasma dump is probably ammo. Then charge rate below thermal id say

Smth like 70% ammo 70% charge sounds ideal

[quick moth]

Yeah charge rate isn't a big deal. I only charge for monstrosities and bulwarks

[wanton dawn]

Charge affects base shot speed still

[quick moth]

I don't think I'd shoot for below 65%, but that'd probably be okay. The one I'm using has been pretty stellar for aur damn

[wanton dawn]

It does affect dps

[quick moth]

Full 80% with lvl 4 blessings would be ideal though lol

[wanton dawn]

But youll be limited by thermal resistance

[quick moth]

No issues with it so far. Just ran aur damn with it twice. Didn't have any problems

[wanton dawn]

Since plasma can reach the 25% ammo reserve now, id say ammo is the dump

[quick moth]

I dunno ammo is definitely pretty important since that reload speed is very slow. Venting is fine, but the reload takes a long time

[wanton dawn]

Not my point though. Just saying charge rate dps increase is constrained by thermal resist

[midnight totem]

What's the difference between power and damage?

[quick moth]

(I almost think of the venting as reloading and the actual reload being a different thing entirely)

[midnight totem]

Power includes stagger?

[wanton dawn]

Power is damage, cleave and st1gger

[midnight totem]

Gotcha

[wanton dawn]

On the twins fight, i only need to reload once on a standard win. There is always safe windows

Granted my plasma has very balanced stats

[rose wedge]

Okay last question for the night(Not really)

I may field this again later

IF I want the goofy Agripinaa revolver boss killing build to work, is the preferred Blessing combo Hand-Cannon and Trickshooter?

[flint garden]

crucian not handcannon

[rose wedge]

Oh interesting, Crucian/Trickshooter huh...

okay cool

[flint garden]

bosses are unyielding so rending doesnt really do anything

[vernal harbor]

what yall thinkin about pc4 and bm4

https://tenor.com/view/american-psycho-what-do-you-think-card-scene-american-psycho-card-scene-whaddaya-think-gif-21118697

[midnight mortar]

Melee crit perk isn't ideal, but the blessings need to be changed too so.

[vernal harbor]

is supercharge as bad as they say

[midnight mortar]

Sadly a sub 70% finesse stat, but it is what it is.

Supercharge isn't necessarily bad, but it's not as useful as BM.

[vernal harbor]

melk been giving me shit all month i finally just grabbed what i thought would be my final chance

[midnight mortar]

I mean, it's a usable PSword.

It'll do until you find a better one.

[vernal harbor]

mostly just wanted to see if the supercharge should stay and then Pc4 and change that crit out

brain fried atm my b

[midnight mortar]

The only targets that aren't dying in the ideal 2 to 3 energized hits will be bosses. That's about the only time brittleness could even come into play.

[vernal harbor]

that makes a good point

ty btw!

[thick fossil]

Does one deal more damage if you charge the bayonete attack with the Mk2?

Helbore

[midnight mortar]

Yes.

You can increase the damage and cleave a bayonet applies if I recall correctly.

[tender lynx]

is it me or veteran voiceline sound the same

man i can't choose

so erm what veteran voiceline you enjoy the most?

[small echo]

What melee weapon compliments the recon lasgun

[trim breach]

any of em

:>

[trim breach]

the shovel

i guess

[thick fossil]

Ohh man, please someone tell me there is a way to cancel the "loading a new round into the chamber" animation everytime you swap into the helbore.

[drifting oak]

nope, that's its downside same as the bolter

slow draw speed

Learn to use the stab bayonet (it's literally hte most OP melee in the game, its stats are busted) so you don't have toswap except in panic situations

[thick fossil]

Does it have some kind of special way to sweep multiple targets at once to be used against hordes?

[tender lynx]

I chose professional

command

and not rude like cutthroat

[drifting oak]

just drag it around

the stab hitbox lingers a ridiculously long time

you can swing hte "stab" at head level and get like 3+ heads

a bit awkward but the damage is nuts

[thick fossil]

Interesting, what should I use as my melee weapon then?

[tender lynx]

anyone here ever go stealth path?

the bleed is op but the grenade is ass

[drifting oak]

you can either take a powersword to kill crushers in melee more easily (since the bayonet isn't good against that) or you can take either of the new pickaxe shovels for the same reason

[thick fossil]

Ahh I like how it sounds.

[drifting oak]

pickaxe shovels are better when you draw them because "oh shit I have to push" and then you can use defensive heavy sweeps to regen stam

power swords are better for "I guess I have my sword out, might as well kill everything"

[tender lynx]

what about the axe

normal kind

[thick fossil]

Last question, does rending work with the Helbores? Because I had the idea to 2 fast shot a crusher and then used the charged attack against them, but I don't see a difference.

[drifting oak]

axes are okay
No compelling reason to use them if you have bayonet though

charged helbore shots have very little reduction against carapace

so you won't see like any improvement from rending

when an infantry lasgun that only deals like ~5% of its base damage against carapace gets +10% rending, now it does 15% against carapace, tripled your damage

[thick fossil]

But I should feel a difference right? I keep seeing the same number damage, even against flak armor.

[drifting oak]

when a helbore that deals like ~80% of its base damage against carapce gets +10% rending, now it does 90% against carapace, very tiny boost

[thick fossil]

Dmg does not go up, and I don't see the rending debuff pop up.

[drifting oak]

that just sounds like the psykanium being dumb

[thick fossil]

I did not work in game either, that's why I went to the meat grinder to test it out.

Idk if a combination of talents breaks them (I have seen that with Ogryn, having 2 particular talents breaks them)

[alpine pebble]

https://tenor.com/view/blooprint-brick-rust-gif-26443262

[tender lynx]

orygn blitz

[vernal harbor]

https://tenor.com/view/baby-patator-exploding-tennis-ball-gif-14738472

[alpine pebble]

nice powersword but its a bit too sbrikiti bricked

[tender lynx]

I just love power sword

cut through horde like butter

[thick fossil]

Meh, let's hope is the psykanium being dumb and not that there is some kind of problem with rending + helbore Mk II.

[gilded wraith]

Does a critical hit make much damage with the Kantrael shotgun's special ammo?

*difference

[tardy wharf]

I swear

devil claw op for handling those siblings

[thorn yoke]

Rending doesn’t trigger on hit. Thats brittleness. Rending should just be a small passive damage increase each shot

[thorn yoke]

You should see a difference equipping and unequipping the talent node, but rending is not the extra damage debuff one

[alpine pebble]

is the +10% rending perk worth it then?

[tardy wharf]

https://tenor.com/view/warhammer-40k-celebration-gif-23199880

Now

Can you parry every sister attack/

[alpine pebble]

dont need to do that sah i can just cu't em

[tardy wharf]

Well I'll be damned, this player right here? Goated. I'd follow them into hell

[alpine pebble]

im sauced sah

[tardy wharf]

Sauced up, stanced up, but can he grove for the emperor?

[thick fossil]

Yeah, I bought a new grey helbore to test it out. The one I had uses Surgical + No respite and the numbers where all over the place.

[drifting oak]

It's pretty bad.

[thorn yoke]

Potentially worth the boost against certain armor types, but depends on the breakpoints

[drifting oak]

The weapons that don't do flak/carapace damage, still won't do any real flak/carapace damage

10% is not enough

[alpine pebble]

https://tenor.com/view/warhammer-darktide-rave-40k-kruber-gif-26978274

[tardy wharf]

ima drop some weapons I use. would love opinions

[alpine pebble]

groovin sah

[drifting oak]

Bring it down usually has more palpable increase

[alpine pebble]

groovin hard

[tardy wharf]

Let me die beside you

[alpine pebble]

with me you dont die

[tardy wharf]

https://tenor.com/view/40k-commissar-chainsword-gif-19397214

[alpine pebble]

if you die with me is swear on big E ill kill you

[tardy wharf]

O:

Zio could 1v1 any deamon primarch.

Change my mind

[alpine pebble]

ᶦ ᵈᵒⁿᵗ ᵏⁿᵒʷ ᵃᵇᵒᵘᵗ ᵗʰᵃᵗ ᵇᵒˢˢ

ᵗʰᵉʸ ˢᶜᵃʳʸ, ᶦ ᶜᵃⁿ ᵗʳʸ ᵗʰᵒ

[umbral scaffold]

Just found out the hitboxes in Darktide are big on purpose

Do so to make the players feel “skilled” my life is a lie

[alpine pebble]

you are skilled bro

dont care about the hitboxes

i've seen you fight, you shine of holy light

[umbral scaffold]

When have we played

Sorry not trying to make u feel unimportant just done a lot of LFGs here

[astral blade]

whoever said that i wouldn't stay away from vet for long

well you were right

[astral blade]

it was fun playing as a zealot must admit but meh vet main till the end

[raw steppe]

you don't only take it for flak/cara

both iags and brautos benefit from it a decent amount due to damage falloff

like a gun that falls off to 60% at (far) gets a pretty significant boost

[umbral scaffold]

Hot take if you’re a vet running ex stance there’s no reason to take enhanced target priority

Teammates will take kills meaning your ex stance will run out quicker

[gritty swallow]

which chain axe is the good one?

[umbral scaffold]

They’ve all been buffed iirc

The orestes is probably the one you’re thinking about tho

Orestes mk XII

[gritty swallow]

thanks! any recommendations for blessings?

[versed merlin]

fun fact: my dad's name is orestes

[gritty swallow]

thats a dope name

[versed merlin]

i disagree

i think its weird

[astral blade]

whats so good about rogue trader it just looks another top down strat game yet again not a huge fan of strat based games

quite boring if you ask me by the looks of it

[versed merlin]

well, for a 3rd release game of a company that started off from a kickstarter project, its pretty good if you ask me

[astral blade]

was looking for a proper answer not a smartass remark

[versed merlin]

whats a proper answer if you dont like the genre?

[umbral scaffold]

Do you have a personality disorder how was that a smartass remark lol

[midnight mortar]

If you don't like the genre, you won't like the game.

This isn't a situation where you should be asking people to convince you to like it because it's popular or something.

I enjoy it for its writing, how it handles the 40k setting, the gameplay mechanics, and the ability to roleplay within it.

But if you don't like top down TBS games, yeah it's going to be a barrier to enjoying Rogue Trader.

[shadow aurora]

Be nice

:(

[pastel geode]

For a crpg it does really at bringing to life the long neglected Rogue trader ttrpg, the story is well written, and the unique freedom rogue traders get allows you to experience warhammer from a different perspective than a space marine for once. if you want you can be that noble that secretly indulges in the ruinous powers while collaborating with the inquisition or be a dogmatic former general that'll execute mutants in the street without hesitation

but if you dont like the crpg formula there's not much that can be done about that.

[digital mango]

So I noticed on the Krieg outfit now the respirator box on the front is now flat

[midnight mortar]

Yes. That change was done a while ago. In response to refunds and complaints about the size of the box being too large and requests to simply make it look like the psyker's which is normal sized, they had someone shrink the z axis.

[digital mango]

Ah

It kinda looks weird now

[midnight mortar]

Yeah. It looks bad in a different way than it did before.

[digital mango]

I don’t think it looks bad it just looks like the bag is now empty

[midnight mortar]

I mean, it's supposed to house the rebreather box that runs the whole filtration system.

The fact that it now looks like the only thing it can hold is some sheafs of paper is bad.

[cosmic crag]

congrats on your newest enemy

(me)

[gray belfry]

man brunts been giving me some absolute garbage new knives today, lets throw more dockets at him and see wha-

pls hadron be cool

[jade notch]

[gray belfry]

whats the go to blessings again? mercy killer and something else?

[tender rose]

https://tenor.com/view/no-bugs-bunny-nope-gif-4095597578532971838

[gray belfry]

dont have the plasteel anyway so itl hold for now

got one with t3 mercy/uncanny atm, dont mind the moveset on it

[junior needle]

Executor got unfugged so it works as an alternative to mercy killer now

[nimble sentinel]

I thought new knife was mid?

[rose drum]

i like the new knife better than the old one but maybe i should retry the old one again

[junior needle]

All the knives are kinda mid tbh

[sharp ember]

i guess it’s mid but in a genuine sidegrade way

[astral blade]

hot take smoke nades need to be changed to gas nades

[delicate lotus]

Could i run this one for Bolter Vet? https://youtu.be/WXY5mT8yqWk?si=93c7rPTgvIMifuOh

[astral blade]

if smoke nades became gas nades but still retain their smoke nade nature than they will be decent i reckon

toxin grenade the vet needs to replace smokes

[nimble sentinel]

worked pretty well for me tho

[gusty bison]

Theres nothing wrong with it

Its nothing special

But its not bad

[astral blade]

Actually that leads me to ask why do the twins get tox gas but us vets can’t get tox grenades would be a good rework for smoke nades

[gusty bison]

Because poisoning nurgle seems like such a good idea

[radiant plank]

so how much of a dump stat is stability

[gusty bison]

Usable, but you will notice it

[raw steppe]

i wouldn't dump stability

at all

lol

colum kicks like mad

you're gonna be unable to kill unable at long/mid range

if you straight dump it

[astral blade]

Ahhhh not true

[radiant plank]

just hit 30 and this is my current columnus

so options not great atm

[raw steppe]

killing far gunners with my 80 stability colum is already dogshit

[sharp ember]

just hit the recoil ceiling

[raw steppe]

can't imagine doing it with like a 40 stability one

[gusty bison]

Short 5 round bursts

The first 5 rounds have low recoil

[radiant plank]

i'll keep farming dockets and hope brunt takes pity on me

[gusty bison]

If you hit heads with I think 2-3 of them, the gunner dies

[raw steppe]

it's not too bad, colum is prety easy to roll you only need 2 stats

[sharp ember]

looking at that one, the only way to go is up really

[raw steppe]

only dmg and stopping power need to be high, ammo can be 70 and still ok

since it scales from 50-60 range

[radiant plank]

yeah i know very well haha

[gusty bison]

To be fair

Its an IAG

[cosmic crag]

theres a gif of an african war torn nation and a guy firing a belt fed machine gun while walking around. he nearly shoots the guy holding the belt when he spins around to fire randomly into the walls

this made me think of that

[raw steppe]

heck ammo can go down to like 65 and still be fine

[gusty bison]

the gap between this and a god roll isnt that far

IAGs dont benefit that much from blessings or perks

[raw steppe]

wot lol

it definitely does

[gusty bison]

Its not a breakpoint gun

[radiant plank]

dumdum and fire frenzy look like huge dps boosts though

[raw steppe]

dumdum is super easy to stack and does disgusting damage

[gusty bison]

And its DPS is so high that you spend more time aiming than shooting

[raw steppe]

25% perks are also really insane

[raw steppe]

fire frenzy actually kinda sucks

it only stacks within 8m

i would prioritize it last

[radiant plank]

oh 😦

[raw steppe]

dumdum + 2 perks is more important

[midnight mortar]

Because the Twins are blessed by Nurgle and trying to use poison against Nurgle aligned enemies usually just makes them stronger.

[gusty bison]

Vs most targets you kinda just shred them in <1 second

Sooo like

The main limiting factor isnt the gun DPS

its your aim speed

The gap between a decent grey and a god gold thus isnt that big

[astral blade]

True what about Psychotroke Grenades instead?

[junior needle]

They function, they're just not great compared to others

[radiant plank]

what perks and blessings am i looking for columnus btw? flak maniac + dumdum deathspitter or something?

[midnight mortar]

Those are pretty specialized equipment options that I don't think would be freely available in the armory.

[astral blade]

Lore wise it make sense since our character is part of the war band

[midnight mortar]

It's also a nerve gas, which wouldn't work against Nurgle.

[nimble sentinel]

true but I didn't just learn how to do greenscreen memes with the queen holding a shovel yet

[gusty bison]

I run Stamina, Unyielding, Dum Dum + Deathspitter, but my build is non conventional

This works fine

[midnight mortar]

There's being part of a war band and then there's having access to the top tier stuff in an armory.

[gusty bison]

Flakiac, Dumdum Deathspitter that is

[midnight mortar]

Psychotroke grenades are used by Grey Knights and the Inquisition.

It's a nerve gas that has hallucinogenic effects.

[gusty bison]

Frankly its really hard to brick an IAG

[astral blade]

And Grendel ship is part of the inquisition no?

[midnight mortar]

First off

We're on Shipmistress Brahm's ship.

[gusty bison]

I wouldnt invest too much resources into it, you arent gonna notice the difference

[midnight mortar]

Grendyl merely requisitioned it for use by the warband.

Brahms is a Rogue Trader.

It's highly unlikely she'd have enough psychotroke nades laying around to supply a whole army of rejects.

Second, even if we have those grenades available I don't think they'd be effective against Nurgle's followers here.

Nerve gas won't stop poxwalkers and the like.

[gusty bison]

Those are also designed to be best vs psykers and daemons

[midnight mortar]

^

[astral blade]

Well you try coming up with something to replace smoke nades

[gusty bison]

There arent any psykers, and theres... two daemon enemies

[midnight mortar]

I... don't need to? I'm not the one invested in trying to make smoke grenades different.

I don't think they work period.

And there's no way to really fix that.

[gusty bison]

Honestly atm, the biggest issue with Smoke is its right tree

and Survivalist is left

so like

the tax is just too painful to warrant taking a utility tool

[astral blade]

https://tenor.com/view/iya-na-kao-sare-nagara-opantsu-misete-moraitai-tch-nurse-gif-23408525

[thick kestrel]

it's very much implied that Tertium, and Grendel, is kind of cut off at the moment. the reason we deal with such a wide veriaty of gear quality is because both us and the traitors are salvaging any and all weapons they can find off the battlefield to keep going.

relying on rejects to replenish the warband is part of all that, the inquisition needs expendable bodies to do crazy, insane, unpredictable strikes into traitor territory while the loyalist guard (who aren't... entirely to be trusted right now in light of whats going on?) hold the line and try to contain the Mobian 6th.

[umbral scaffold]

Bruh most of the cultists bodies are in worser shape than any nerve gas damage can inflict 💀

[gusty bison]

Smoke has a situational use and is actually solid in its situation

[midnight mortar]

The 21st Moebians were recruited by Rannick before we showed up on the scene. So they're at least somewhat trustworthy.

[junior needle]

Its situational use is keeping me from shooting the enemies

[midnight mortar]

Moreover, the poxwalkers likely don't have nerves anymore.

[gusty bison]

but it isnt a generic spam grenade, so you kinda only wanna take it for specific situations. But it costing 3 talents is just no bueno.

[midnight mortar]

They're moving thanks to the disease Nurgle gave them rather than traditional methods.

[celest vine]

Yes, she does have an enormous stockpile of thunderhammers, power swords, and force swords tho

[umbral scaffold]

Yeah.
We are the deep strikers while the guard fights on the frontlines

[thick kestrel]

indeed, but the whole situation is very messy... there's definitely an element of Grendel trying to keep a lid on things.

[midnight mortar]

Yes. I never denied that. That's unrelated to the original topic I was addressing.

[cosmic crag]

sounds like me after working all week

[umbral scaffold]

Im here chilling with the middle tree

[celest vine]

Let us find a vortex grenade in the field

All im saying

[astral blade]

Man just want something better than smoke nades honestly I know they are situational but I mean the keyword is “situational”

[gusty bison]

Ah yes, lets delete the map

[celest vine]

Yes

[thick kestrel]

of course there's still the whole question of who Grendel actually is as an overarching thing... or even if there is a Grendel...

[umbral scaffold]

Nah nah that's too much

[gusty bison]

Throws vortex grenade, the ceiling collapses

[umbral scaffold]

I want an orbital bombardment beacon

[gusty bison]

Along with the entire hive above it

[celest vine]

Could be like the d20 grenade from cursed halo

[umbral scaffold]

[celest vine]

It may kill your enemies

Spawn a chaos spawn

Kill you

Do nothing

[umbral scaffold]

Do yall think the vet deserves an artillery ability?

Like IG has spotters

[gusty bison]

How the fuck is artillery landing in the setting

Like

we are indoors

[umbral scaffold]

More like precision bombardment

[gusty bison]

95% of the time

[umbral scaffold]

Good point lmao

[nimble sentinel]

we are also litearlly 4 convicts sent to die why would they waste artillery on us?

[celest vine]

One singular valkary bomb

[tender lynx]

this ain't boltgun

[umbral scaffold]

Idk, mourningstar just sits there

[gusty bison]

Also like

Lets just say

[umbral scaffold]

Or just a recon sweep?

[gusty bison]

if Mourningstar fires on Tertium

There is no more Tertium

[celest vine]

Monkeybomb

[gusty bison]

Macrobatteries fire fucking plasma warheads

(I.e. nukes)

[umbral scaffold]

Problem solved

[celest vine]

Its fine

Corruption gone

[umbral scaffold]

Combined with focus target it'd be a pretty good perk

[astral blade]

What about shock grenades for vet?

[tender lynx]

stun?

[celest vine]

Impact grenades are better

[tender lynx]

but better

[gusty bison]

So a zealot stun nade?

[umbral scaffold]

You do realize smite exists right, my brother in Christ?

[celest vine]

Nah give vet an impact grenade

[umbral scaffold]

And this and the zealot ability

[nimble sentinel]

I'd be down for impact nade

[fading grove]

Give vet nades that can deploy as mines

[gusty bison]

Make smokes impact

[astral blade]

Yes I know smite exists

[gusty bison]

Ez

:D

[fading grove]

Remove smokes ez

[gusty bison]

Actually would be a nice change

[nimble sentinel]

like rock but boom

[celest vine]

Sticky grenade

[umbral scaffold]

Or deploy a small minefield

[celest vine]

Or sticky bomb

[umbral scaffold]

Good for survive objectives

[celest vine]

Adhesive charge but for veteran grenade

[nimble sentinel]

kraks already stick

[celest vine]

Thats anti tank tho

[gusty bison]

This is what smoke does tbh

[celest vine]

Sticky frag

[tender lynx]

no one use smoke tbh

[celest vine]

Or an impact grenade

[gusty bison]

While on an obj, if your team isnt idiots, ranged is more dangerous than melee

[tender lynx]

I find use for smoke when you busy clearing horde and like 8 gunner appears

[astral blade]

Statis nades?

[celest vine]

Webber gun for veteran

[umbral scaffold]

We already have enough stun related stuff in game

[tender lynx]

smoke just don't let them shoot for about 15 second

[celest vine]

Turn the table on trapper

[umbral scaffold]

Net grenade

[tender lynx]

dark age technology weapon

[umbral scaffold]

Ties down the target for 15s (works on bosses)

[astral blade]

Ok what about blind grenades?

[tender lynx]

smoke

[rose drum]

Gunners shoot through smoke, they just don't track anyone

[tender lynx]

I hope they don't have cs2 physic then

[umbral scaffold]

Would be contro as you may blind yourself and the team?

[rose drum]

Normal soldiers don't shoot, Gunners and Reapers shoot at the air at the last known position of their target

Snipers see through smoke, and Shotgunners run into it

[astral blade]

Fuck it….plasma grenades?

[honest spoke]

Smokes and Kraks are unique, if anything the bleed ones are the most generic and should be changed, or at least have the ability to be cooked.

[rose drum]

Krak

[umbral scaffold]

Just bigger krak grenades...

[astral blade]

I thought those were meta bombs?

[honest spoke]

Just give us a boomerang or something

[rose drum]

Why would you want plasma nades having krak nades

[rose drum]

The thunder from down under

[tender lynx]

turret

no AI ofc

[nimble sentinel]

wild idea: replace smokes with the option to take a second gun

[astral blade]

I def don’t think rad grenades would work against follows of burgle

[tender lynx]

rad ?

radiation?

[umbral scaffold]

Or dual wield guns ability

[rose drum]

Only skitarii would use rad nades

[honest spoke]

Dual wield bolters

[umbral scaffold]

https://tenor.com/view/metal-gear-revolverocelot-gun-gif-12280624

[tender lynx]

you gonna die from rad

[astral blade]

Correction plasma nades in 40k are closer to that of a frag nade

[pastel geode]

Arc grenades probably but there’s not much short term benefit of a grenade spewing radiation

[honest spoke]

Vets gonna need chemo after every mission lol

[pastel geode]

Just turn smoke nades into Willie Pete’s

[astral blade]

If ya read the lore behind rad nades they only last a millisecond

[pastel geode]

Or tear gas?

[rose drum]

I mean it in the sense that only skitarii would use rad weapons, right?

[nimble sentinel]

^

[rose drum]

A lot of enemies wear masks tho

Atleast scabs

[pastel geode]

Fair

[umbral scaffold]

What about melts bombs or multi explosion grenades?

[honest spoke]

I dunno jack shit about 40k lore, I'm just here for the fun gameplay and to shitpost

[pastel geode]

There’s just not many options to choose to be better without it overshadowing other existing choices

Like krak grenades would be worthless if we had melta bombs

[umbral scaffold]

Anti grav grenades?

[astral blade]

fuck sakes allot of you vets are pretty stupid in this chat not gonna name anyone but whatever anyways imma head off I’ve said my piece

[rain steppe]

Yeah we have aoe, single target and utility nade, hard to add anything meaningful that doesnt just exist in the same space

[rose drum]

Its you who started it wanting to replace smoke lol

[pastel geode]

Gravity weapons are a thing but I don’t think lore wise they’d entrust even one of them to anyone below a decorated space marine

[gusty bison]

Imho smokes just need to be more responsive

And less of a tax

The tree atm is pain to take smokes

Smokes blowing up on impact and making survivalist not the "duh" pick would go a long way to making them more useful

[tender lynx]

the right tree is like

I love only about bleed

when you do melee

[gusty bison]

Right tree is the best tree atm

[rose drum]

How so?

[tender lynx]

the swap?

[pastel geode]

Right tree is “we have zealot at home”

[gusty bison]

You get some of the best melee buffs in the game

Like better than zealot level of good

[rose drum]

True that

[gusty bison]

Out for Blood is very good

The aura is ass but any aura not survivalist is ass

[elder vessel]

The smokes should just prevent shooters from shooting you period, skip the "inaccuracy" nonsense

[gusty bison]

Smoke is utility which is ehhh

[elder vessel]

And send enemies in the cloud into a coughing fit

[gusty bison]

Rest is amazing

ok Infiltrate is meh

[gusty bison]

This is an issue with gunner AI tbh

they dont stop shooting when you break LoS

[tender lynx]

that smoke ain't gon do shit when 3 crusher spawn

[gusty bison]

often they will shoot at your last known location

[gusty bison]

Tbf smoke isnt meant for that

Just like how krak does nothing vs a gunner patrol

[rose drum]

Or frag against crushers

[gusty bison]

Crushers arent scary anyway

Frag staggers crushers

[tender lynx]

crusher scary for me

[gusty bison]

so it has use

What melee do you use?

[rose drum]

Krak can also stagger gunners, idk

[gusty bison]

Dclaw?

[gusty bison]

Too long of a delay + hits too few of them

[pastel geode]

I do wonder if they’ll merge the weapon inventories like they did with the money

[gusty bison]

Gunners tend to spread out quickly

[rose drum]

Yeah, true

[gusty bison]

Frag is the most versatile of the 3

it doesnt kill the heavy stuff, but it can buy space in most situations

Smoke very much is for anti shooter spam

and krak is for busting bulwarks/crushers

[tender lynx]

bosses

[gusty bison]

Its frankly just "ok" vs bosses

like ur better off with ur other weapons in terms of deeps

Unless you have plasma

[rose drum]

I never understood the krak hype against bosses, they dont seem that useful when I throw it to them

[rain steppe]

What would you change on this, perk to 4 or blessing to 4?

[gusty bison]

Drop No Respite for Deadly Accurate

[rose drum]

No respite to deadly accurate

That's a great gun

[gusty bison]

Altenatively, Change from MG12 to MG1a

[pastel geode]

It’s good for getting a solid hit once the shield is down if you need to deal with trash at the same time

[rain steppe]

Will do, thanks

[gusty bison]

MG12 needs something tbh

Its very meh atm

[pastel geode]

It lost it’s purpose with the mg1 buff

[gusty bison]

Ya

[tender lynx]

I'm annoyed how slow it is

[rose drum]

I love it because of it

The mg1a doesnt feel as strong hitting

[pastel geode]

It’s supposed to be the slow but hard hitting one

[gusty bison]

It also does less damage than a V7

[umbral scaffold]

Isn't there a faster variant?

[gusty bison]

which is pain

[umbral scaffold]

Mg12 the slowest variant

[rose drum]

The 1a and the 4

[pastel geode]

Mg4 is the fast one

[gusty bison]

The V7 gets the option of slow controlled shots and rapid fired shots

And also the HB2

Shoots faster, does more damage, has an amazing melee attachment

[umbral scaffold]

Yeah. That thing has almost no recoil and packs a punch lmao

[rose drum]

I actually don't think its slow at all, i dont need it to shoot faster

When you kill anything in one shot

[gusty bison]

It... doesnt though

It relies on a non guaranteed crit

[umbral scaffold]

I have this on my psyker.
Can confirm.
Very slow and takes 4 shots to down a dreg gunner on damnation

[rose drum]

It kills a lot of things in one hit

[pastel geode]

Shh, don’t talk about helbores. You’ll summon the Kriegers

[gusty bison]

It doesnt down a maniac rager iirc

[umbral scaffold]

Tbf psyker doesn’t have the same ranged focus perks as vet does

[gusty bison]

Not without a crit

And like

[rose drum]

Not without a crit, yeah

[umbral scaffold]

I think this is it

[gusty bison]

Below that, the MG1a will hit all those BPs

A V7 will also hit all those BPs with a guaranteed crit

[umbral scaffold]

The MG12 for a while was very good and probably the only kantrael lasgun worth using up until a certain point. Now it’s just meh like others have said

[gusty bison]

Theres also the bolter, HB, plasma

[rose drum]

And the revolver if youre going that way

[umbral scaffold]

Braced autoguns

[gusty bison]

Braced autos are actually kinda bleh on vet

[umbral scaffold]

If you don't like, you know, aiming

[rose drum]

Does the 1a oneshot flamers?

[gusty bison]

You lose a lot of what makes vet ranged good

[gusty bison]

Yes

Its only 1.4k

[rose drum]

Maybe I need to give it another try then

[umbral scaffold]

Idk, culling whole hordes is kinda awesome.
For bosses, I got them krak grenades anyway

[gusty bison]

Its pretty bad at horde culling ngl

[umbral scaffold]

IAGs do what brautos do but more accurately

[gusty bison]

Since Vet gets dclaw and psword

[umbral scaffold]

This

Just stack those crits on the skill tree and you just need to pull the trigger

[gusty bison]

Its a braced auto

crits barely do anything

[umbral scaffold]

What? Why?

[gusty bison]

Its like a 1.3x finesse or something completely garbage

Crits and Headshots on the braced auto barely do increased damage

Compared to an IAG or Headhunter

[umbral scaffold]

Try any other weapon, the IAG is a lot better at hitting weakspots in a crowd

[gusty bison]

An IAG does 2.7x