veteran-class

[junior grail]

It has its benefits

[frail bolt]

lol, i barely have time to play even while living with my parents. the price to pay in this economy

[junior grail]

Downside is working with government hahaha

[woeful ibex]

uhm

Brunt's Armory Right now

[serene sage]

yeah, I am one year out of grad school, got a stable job, but buying a house seems a little too far out.

[woeful ibex]

Thanks Brunt

[serene sage]

I live in Boston bro

sub 500k maybe get you a cheap condo

[forest blaze]

Depends on the house lmfao

[serene sage]

I mean if you want to live in bumfuck Wyoming then yeah

[umbral scaffold]

Just finished a damnation twins as stealth vet and saved both of the zealots

[serene sage]

but then you'd have no job

[hollow ibex]

if you live in the middle of nowhere lol

[umbral scaffold]

Ima throw up

[forest blaze]

Found your problem

[eternal sable]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/608796062530011348/993660102756290560/bark.gif

[serene sage]

it's about the same in the US if you live in a high pop state

like CA rent is 4k/a month

[forest blaze]

CA and NYC also have higher wages on similar professions.

[fleet garden]

is this housing chat?

[forest blaze]

Sure is

[paper brook]

Is onslaught still viable for builds using autoguns?

[serene sage]

more like zoomer depression chat

[forest blaze]

If you walk up and melee

[junior grail]

Can't relate, not in the West haha

[vernal harbor]

Veterans care about housing

[forest blaze]

Something something atoma something something

[vernal harbor]

How are we gonna play if we don’t got a home

[serene sage]

we should be able to retire

[forest blaze]

https://tenor.com/view/fall-of-cadia-cadia-battlefleet-gothic-gif-25242351

[serene sage]

after going on like 500 missions

[forest blaze]

My house

[serene sage]

I'm just saying

let vets retire after 500 missions

[junior grail]

On the bright side, deals are lower than ever now

[thorn yoke]

Retire to where? The future is grim and dark

[junior grail]

Darktide drops Meltagun and variants

[serene sage]

Imperium is a hyper Communist state, if your wealth gets over 25M ordos, tax is 100%

which is why you can never get above 25M ordos

some people are just more equal to others

[junior grail]

Tax Evasion still a thing in 40k

[serene sage]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[vernal harbor]

my fucking home

[junior grail]

Just that you got Inquisition watching over your sus closet sins

[serene bough]

Depends on where you live

State by state is very different

[terse idol]

Well like

If you live in the major cities

Toronto, Vancouver insane

[elder vessel]

Ldia

[terse idol]

Calgary got higher, where some rent is 1800 CAD

[serene sage]

are we dick measuring on which country sucks more to pay for shit now?

most people in the US are struggling

[serene bough]

If you avoid the major cities in the US its relatively cheap

[terse idol]

The housing market is gonna pop suffice it to say

[serene sage]

not like people in the US are making it rain on the street lmao

[serene bough]

Key word relatively

[terse idol]

Frankly it's insane that you can't even live off 30 dollars an hour in Cali

Well yeah

Its been like that for a while

Apartments hit, the issue being many of us aren't gonna be able to afford a home in our lifetime

Considering now folks that didn't buy it during that time the price is terrible

Man we are fuucked

[quasi socket]

inc crash of 08 repeating

[terse idol]

[serene sage]

but it's also a neccessity asset, unless you have multiple houses, the single house you own isn't exactly an "investment", not like you can just sell and move out on a dime.

in which case that's fair

I came from a third world country though so can't imagine leaving the US for any place else.

[wanton dawn]

It is the same in most developped countries though

[quasi socket]

visited poland, i know 0% about anything there, but the people were super friendly and its beautiful in the country

[serene bough]

I'd rather own an apartment currently

Im not sure if I currently need the living space of an entire home

I dont want to live in canada

[quasi socket]

grew up in michigan, didnt get that cold where i was, but grey skies 85% of the year

everyone says "oh it must be beautiful" yeah, if you like living in a northern swamp

[serene bough]

-40c is not -40f

[forest blaze]

With the bullshit income brunt is making? That dude owns the entire fuckin real space real estate

[serene bough]

Really?

I dont like using imperial units

Rather use metric

[wanton dawn]

Ordos in morningstar is probably fake money though

[serene bough]

Well shit

Math checks out

[serene sage]

if you want to converquickly, just times 2 then plus 30

[serene bough]

Guess I'm wrong

[serene sage]

it's close enough

[forest blaze]

Hahahaha Monopoly money for convicts. Like cigarettes in prison.

[serene sage]

that's how I learnt F in the US

stupid system

[forest blaze]

Inches vs mm. My favorite.

[serene bough]

Interesting is a word

[serene sage]

still don't now how long 300ft is

[terse idol]

Oh what that's perfect weather

[forest blaze]

About 100 yards

[terse idol]

[serene sage]

shoot me

[wanton dawn]

Liberty units going straight ! To the ground !

[celest vine]

With a 30 cal?

💀

[wanton dawn]

Pretty sure all the "important" stuff use standard unit

[crude ermine]

Yeah

[celest vine]

Fasteners are all in standard

[wanton dawn]

Aka i dont wanna die due to mistranslation

[celest vine]

Usually

[blazing veldt]

ft mi and kt shit's weird

[terse idol]

Well to be fair in the US many machines are already in imperial, so better just use them than go around changing all the machining equipment

Blehh

[celest vine]

RTUs are never in metric

[crude ermine]

I don't like the US's temperature thingy whatever you call it

[forest blaze]

I have a background in woodworking/luthiery/guitar building and I’ve spent enough time measuring fine units in inches that I can see 1/32nd of an inch mistake from across the room but couldn’t tell you what that is in mm

[celest vine]

Gas line isnt

[serene sage]

which weapon would you considered an SMG in the game?

[blazing veldt]

I used to play war thunder and I got genuinely pissed when people would use metric in air rb

[serene sage]

Columnus is not an smg right?

it's more of a rifle?

[celest vine]

Probably the small Machine gun

[blazing veldt]

autopistol with stock from weapon customization

[serene sage]

feel like shredder is the only smg

in the game

[blazing veldt]

that's the only right answer

[forest blaze]

Its about this much of a difference 🤏

[terse idol]

That defo is an smg

[serene sage]

it looks too big

[terse idol]

With uh, big boolet

[serene sage]

barrel too long

[terse idol]

Its a carbine if anything

Still uses rifle rounds

[celest vine]

Still wont stop the dipshit apprentice from stripping every screw hole

[terse idol]

Whatever the 40k equivalent is

[serene sage]

Recon is an SMG

👍

[terse idol]

[blazing veldt]

twin link stubber is an SMG for ogryn

[forest blaze]

Fr fr. Hiding the power tools helps but that dude just can’t use the correct size Philips for the correct head smh

[swift narwhal]

question.. do i replace surgical or onslaught for tier IV

[serene sage]

my friend call the Boltgun a pistol

[wanton dawn]

The photoshop artist spotting a pixel mistake on its artwork

[terse idol]

I didn't realise how precise some things were until I started watching CNC machining videos

[serene sage]

I cry

[terse idol]

Whew

[celest vine]

I teach my apprentices to do their impact slowly til one click

[serene sage]

just a small .75 cal 40 pounds pistol

[celest vine]

Trane screw holes are notoriously shitty

Always strip

[forest blaze]

Ahaha in luthiery there’s no impact drill. I’ll literally lose my mind if I see someone pull that out

[celest vine]

Im a gasfitter

Appliances need impacts

[forest blaze]

Years ago I sent a $7000 custom Gibson back to the factory for the neck angle being off by 1 degree, which made it virtually unplayable

[celest vine]

Its a challenge to strip black iron pipe

[forest blaze]

Spotted that sumbitch the second the store unboxed it

[serene sage]

well he's not a space marine, i know that much

[celest vine]

Andre?

[paper brook]

But brittleness still gets applied from continuous gunshots?

[wanton dawn]

I mean, you paid 7k for what i assume is not just the name

[forest blaze]

Would think

[wanton dawn]

Good for you to be able to judge that

I wouldnt be able to

Am a piano man

[quasi socket]

personally, i play the ak

[forest blaze]

Build more than a few and you’ll see that shit from across the room

Mostly because you’ll make the mistake yourself lmfao

“Ah fuck. What the fuck is that.”

[celest vine]

Any other guns have unique reloads?

[serene sage]

which gun is that?

mg1a?

[wanton dawn]

At 7k i would keep the piano cuz it might cost more to send it back

[rancid tinsel]

the helbore sometimes does the same mag stutter

like you are missing it on the first go lol

[forest blaze]

Piano yah for sure

[atomic zephyr]

tried to test my new graia brauto, psyker with voidstrike kept orbitally nuking every target of intrest i could find

:(

[celest vine]

Yes

[terse idol]

Most guns have like 2 reloads

[celest vine]

Mg12 has this too

[terse idol]

The shredder for Ogryns

[atomic zephyr]

how am i supposed to test how it does against a rager horde if the rager horde melts before i can finish bracing the gun

[junior grail]

I have more success with Columnus Brauto

[celest vine]

I only use laser gun

[atomic zephyr]

i have an incredible agri brauto, just testing the graia lol

the agri never fails me though

[junior grail]

FS needs to give other brautos more purpose

[quasi socket]

plasma is slowly growing on me

[atomic zephyr]

the graia...the graia i want to like, but it just doesnt feel like it cuts down targets the same

[junior grail]

Sure that isnt the Nurgle Rot?

[quasi socket]

also, ps mk6 is dope, but i gotta not panic for the push combo

[wanton dawn]

Am not into columnus. Too much kick for my taste

[atomic zephyr]

agrippina will chug out a few shots and half the shotgunner squad is flat on their ass, the other half dead

graia just feels like ive blasted them with pellets

[junior grail]

Tickled to not-death

[atomic zephyr]

there has to be something im missing lol

[junior grail]

Graia should go Achlys route and not be so slowed down while bracing

[wanton dawn]

I used graia once i think. I though it was hot crap and never used it again

[atomic zephyr]

agri makes me feel like rambo

[wanton dawn]

Just a way worse agri basically

[atomic zephyr]

i thought the fire rate on brace increase would be nice but its not accurate enough to make it pay off

[wanton dawn]

I did not think. I was just amazed at having like, 50% less dps

[atomic zephyr]

lmao true

like, this is what im running rn

vs my beloved

[frail bolt]

what job u work?

500k is a fuck ton for me, lol

[atomic zephyr]

town houses in DC sell for 1.2M

[serene sage]

is the server crashing rn?

i can't connect 😔

[wanton dawn]

US salary are twice as high as what you find in west europe though

Exchange rate not included

It is was rn ? 1.05 ? 1.1 ?

Not enough to be a countetpoint

[crude ermine]

Feel like I'm getting deja vu like as if this convo had already happened, might just be me

[tiny summit]

Bruh anything even breaking 200k is a lot for the majority of people. I only bought a decent townhome for 250k. Wish I bought pre-covid but I just got a new job at that time and didn't know if the company would've squeezed down

[atomic zephyr]

why bother?

[crude ermine]

Mauler, gunned down in the psykarium

[atomic zephyr]

mauler found dead in front of 7/11

[wanton dawn]

You murderer 😢

[atomic zephyr]

its not like its any more ammo efficient either, both guns take around the same % of the mag to down the mauler

[serene sage]

it has death blow

that means it kills things

[ebon umbra]

still viable

dont let players tell you you need crazy stat weapons to win

[atomic zephyr]

@15 meters

[tiny summit]

Take it to orange you coward

[atomic zephyr]

piece of shit gun lmao

[wanton dawn]

Ppl keep saying that recon are worse gun. I think the worse is prob a graia

[atomic zephyr]

good idea ill test the dps against a recon

[celest vine]

Graia looks like a space AK

Its automatically better

[atomic zephyr]

IT BEATS THE GRAIA LMAO

[wanton dawn]

Graia is just a straight up worse agri

There is literally no niche, no reason to use it

[atomic zephyr]

https://tenor.com/view/neil-diamond-gif-24666895

me rn

[celest vine]

Rule of cool

[atomic zephyr]

ill keep it in the back pocket in case it gets buffed

[paper brook]

Throwing away your Graia?

[atomic zephyr]

no

holding onto it cause it's got a good roll and blessings

it just doesnt have the damage to stand up

[wanton dawn]

Dude keep its trash

[tiny summit]

Of course. I have like 5 decent recons on that eventual buff copium

[junior grail]

Devil Claw swords used to be trash

[celest vine]

BM nerf?

[atomic zephyr]

i rolled this thing the day before the shock trooper nerf
im still mad about it

[junior grail]

Recon periodically untrashes

[celest vine]

Do braced auto have bullet magnetism like infantry autos?

[atomic zephyr]

probably a little

they dotn really need it

[celest vine]

Infantry autoguns its downright comical

[wanton dawn]

I find recon to be so boring that i dont bother unless so overpowered that they gey hotfixed

[atomic zephyr]

y'know what im gonna make a recon las build for fun

[celest vine]

Its intense

[tiny summit]

I mean they still "work". It's not like recons are unusable

[terse idol]

I'm gonna say it

[wanton dawn]

Still the most boring weapon class

[terse idol]

Reconsider are unuseable

Ttk is too high

[atomic zephyr]

yeah just messing around in the psykanium, they seem pretty ok

[midnight mortar]

Just spawn yourself 4 ragers, see how long it takes you to kill them. Then spawn 4 mutants.

[terse idol]

Just spawn 1 mutant and kill him without headshots

And then take a columnus

And kill it without headshots

[tiny summit]

There are some in the discord who think where recons are, all guns should be brought to its level because all else is too overpowered

[atomic zephyr]

counterpoint: laser famas

[tiny summit]

Yea. Pew Pew fun

[wanton dawn]

I just think it is a boring weapon that only has dps going for it

[terse idol]

I mean to be fair

[terse idol]

What does the columnus have going for it besides pure damage

[terse idol]

I think many of our indicators are

[tiny summit]

It was funny before the shock trooper change for it. Just neverennding hosing

[terse idol]

How well a weapon does

[wanton dawn]

Kicks

[iron marten]

Laspistol better anyway

[terse idol]

I love these funny comparisons

Its so sad

[terse idol]

That's crazy

[crude ermine]

Force bullets

[stone birch]

aim assist

[terse idol]

Oh it's xbox

[ivory rock]

This what the spread on valorant like

[small echo]

What ranged weapons are best for boss killing?

[terse idol]

Yeah I don't get that

[celest vine]

Console exclusive bullet magnetism

[terse idol]

Which is vaalid

[ivory rock]

New revolver

[celest vine]

Aim assist was off for this clip

[wanton dawn]

Depends what your indicators are

[atomic zephyr]

god, nvm, i cant make this thing work

wait

[iron marten]

Plasma gun, unironically. Chaos Spawn or Plague Ogryn, just pop Voice of Command, and mouse1 spam on their head while they're stunned

[atomic zephyr]

hrrrrm.

[terse idol]

Recon?

[atomic zephyr]

recon. im trying to decide if it works well enoguh or not

because like

[terse idol]

[tiny summit]

Helbore bayonet

[atomic zephyr]

it fucking obliterates anything that ISNT a mutant

[serene sage]

Plasma Bolter Columnus Revolver (if headshot)

[atomic zephyr]

look man the recon lasgun was what sold me on this game ill be damned if i dont try

[wanton dawn]

Plasma is a consistent boss killer. Not the fastest though.

[atomic zephyr]

azreal post the mp4

[terse idol]

The regular Las sold me,
The recon Las reminded me of dawn of War 2

I even played it

[crude ermine]

It's one thing the agri revolver wins over the zarona

[terse idol]

But now it's just bad

[crude ermine]

That and ig cool factor

[terse idol]

And you cant even sustain ammo that well

[celest vine]

Mk3 shovel one shotting crushers will never not be funny

[wanton dawn]

Agri revolver boss killer is a gimmick though

[iron marten]

Still need to build an agri revo

[placid portal]

Yeehaw cannon do be funny fanning

[iron marten]

but I'm too used to just one tapping everything with a zarona revo

[atomic zephyr]

ok i swapped from my recon las to my infantry 1a just to test and the comparison isnt even funny

sorry recon las you're going back in the drawer

[terse idol]

This is why I will say, I won't burn folks who like using it that's fine

[wanton dawn]

It is still a committed investment towards ult with exec stance on a gun weak at long range

[terse idol]

but gosh darn I hope people know how bad it is

[tiny summit]

It's just so underwhelming to your options

[atomic zephyr]

i really really really want to love recon

[atomic zephyr]

but the performance just sint there

[terse idol]

Chad's in the guard

[crude ermine]

7

[atomic zephyr]

on the bright side, i appear to have accidentally created a great infantry lasgun build

[wanton dawn]

Am not the one using it

[iron marten]

7 wounds is fine, martyrdom build - I hope.

[terse idol]

Okay zealot with wound build pets go

[crude ermine]

Oh you're talking about the others

[wanton dawn]

Ppl says that the other revolver is better though

[terse idol]

You cant naturally get 7 wound without that talent

[crude ermine]

Thought ye were just counting thee wounds on one

[celest vine]

Guy was worried about my ammo useage, dont worry friend I got an infantry las with shock trooper

[terse idol]

Unless you get the sacred

[snow pendant]

is there an effective bolter build or am i wasting my time with bolter ?

[terse idol]

+2 wound curio

The legend

[tiny summit]

Had a vet in my last game who had 3 wound curios

[iron marten]

5 wounds is someone running 3 wounds without martyrdom

running wounds is already pretty munted for me, since they added the health stim :P

[snow pendant]

what is the bolter role sniper , mag dump ?

[wanton dawn]

Bolter is a different gun now though

[snow pendant]

what kinda skill to bring and wat blessing ?

[crude ermine]

Depends on ye playstyle

[snow pendant]

the easiest to use

[tiny summit]

There's a talent with +2 wounds. Probably like how I used to run zealot. Blazing piety, 2 wound talent, 1 wound curio

[terse idol]

Has anybody found a 80 mod +2 wound curio yet

[snow pendant]

i see

[wanton dawn]

Nah

[idle carbon]

they don't exist

[terse idol]

The legendary 3x +2 wound curio

Oh whaat

I keep getting mixed messages

Aww

😭

[iron marten]

mmm, I always go for 7 wounds with martyrdom, and I refuse to go more than two wounds in any other build - including other classes

[wanton dawn]

It would have been a bit too much in practice

[terse idol]

Yeah and my bf said like they still do but damn

[atomic zephyr]

should i send this?

[terse idol]

It was all a dream

Oh no yeah

[wanton dawn]

Requiring 80 base should not be a thing

[terse idol]

I always run 2 wounds and green stim just hits different

[iron marten]

if you don't mind losing a dodge, then it's a solid base

[terse idol]

I feel bad for people who run multiple wounds with green stim

[atomic zephyr]

or should i upgrade this instead?

[terse idol]

Just doesn't hit the same

[atomic zephyr]

the stopping power makes me raise an eyebrow

[terse idol]

Send diis

You need stopping power

[tiny summit]

I mean 3 wound people are still getting more than the base value of 25%

[atomic zephyr]

[wanton dawn]

I feel bad for ppl running wound without martyr

[terse idol]

That is yrue

[terse idol]

Living on the edge

[umbral scaffold]

Don’t be a lil bitch just run no wounds

[wanton dawn]

Not even. I have more health and thoughness than ya

[atomic zephyr]

fuck i wanted DA/Headhunter but t4 ghost...

[iron marten]

gonna go off on a tangent here, but I fear the day when martyrdom zealots can use powersword or mk4 duelling swords

[umbral scaffold]

Accept a glorious death for the emperor

[midnight mortar]

That does not exist.

[atomic zephyr]

is this salvagable?

[celest vine]

Fo

No

Get the blessing add it to collection

[atomic zephyr]

:( sadge, what i thought

[wanton dawn]

I fear the day when vet chat becomes zealot chat. Again

[celest vine]

Unarmored is nice on infantry las

[atomic zephyr]

emperor refuses to let me have a nice 1a

[iron marten]

oh dear, how bad was that? I wasn't active during those times

[atomic zephyr]

my only decent one is sub 500

[wanton dawn]

Lot of frogs gif

[celest vine]

Best perks to have are Flak, maniac, Crit chance/damage, and unarmored

[wanton dawn]

Though to be fair, i could go into vet chat without fearing a eyescream at every opening

[midnight mortar]

Back when the game first launched, it was mostly borderline ERP-ing, offtopic memes, flirting, femboy etc., and pink names everywhere in this chat.

[atomic zephyr]

fucking finally

[celest vine]

Just ban them already

[midnight mortar]

Thankfully most of them migrated to zealot chat after a few months.

[atomic zephyr]

ill take an ammo dump stat its an infantry las who cares

[iron marten]

classic game discord activities in the beginning

[midnight mortar]

Or flocked to the next game of the month.

[atomic zephyr]

lets see how hadron fucks me in the ass this time

[tiny summit]

Now what will mommy hadron bless you with

[atomic zephyr]

it aint lookin good boss

🪦

[analog blaze]

RIP

[iron marten]

and there's another 2500 plasteel down the drain!

[atomic zephyr]

this is at least the fifth bricked 1a infantry las

[tiny summit]

I mean...you can make it work

[atomic zephyr]

in the past two weeks

[wanton dawn]

Thats what you get for trying to make a lasgun

[tiny summit]

Unless you have a specific setup you're aiming for

[atomic zephyr]

i literally have this but xii just feels like shit now

otherwise id never put it down

[wanton dawn]

I still have my lvl 30 mg12 in my inventory

[tiny summit]

Yea I'd rather have Ia fire rate over the XII 40 dmg

[steep ice]

hey I don't know what to do with this power sword is sunder better then other options if so what perks should I use on this

[midnight mortar]

Replace Sunder with Brutal Momentum.

[celest vine]

I thought that until a dreg gunner survived a headshkt

[midnight mortar]

Melee crit -> Maniac or flak.

[wanton dawn]

No

[atomic zephyr]

brunt forgot to give me the magazine on this one

[tiny summit]

You fire fast enough. Eh whatever is more satisfying

[wanton dawn]

Keep both blessing. Swap perks

[celest vine]

Brunt gave me this

[frail bolt]

nice

[atomic zephyr]

GIVE ME

NOW

[celest vine]

Its my primary

[tiny summit]

You mean mommy hadron blessed you this!

[atomic zephyr]

:(

[atomic zephyr]

LOL

[celest vine]

Take this instead

[atomic zephyr]

fucking watergun

[ebon umbra]

nice bbgun

[celest vine]

Training rifle

[atomic zephyr]

if this gets bricked im never playing vet again

[umbral granite]

got this as a quest reward. stability isn't perfect, but it's within the range of stuff i can work with. currently farming plasteel to upgrade it.

[tiny summit]

Hadron going to fuck it up

[celest vine]

Shush

Let her cook

[atomic zephyr]

boys....

im not liking this

[celest vine]

Crit chance is good

[tiny summit]

PULL THE LEVER

[atomic zephyr]

T4 EFFICIENCY

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[umbral granite]

ouch

[frank ether]

rip

[celest vine]

Infernus is fine

Useable

[atomic zephyr]

wait

i have t4 headhunter

[frank ether]

I dont think its very good

[celest vine]

Triggering infernus often

[tiny summit]

It's why he said "usable"

[atomic zephyr]

...its no DA

[frank ether]

why stack infernus like a dingus when you can just one shot it with deadly accurate

[celest vine]

Sprint for flak

[tiny summit]

Keep the sprint efficiency!

[atomic zephyr]

should i replace infernus with deadly accurate or swap a perk?

[wanton dawn]

LOCK THE SPRINT

[frank ether]

hmm

I'm not sure

how much damage infernus adds

or if its any good against carapace

[frail bolt]

test it in meat grinder

[midnight mortar]

On the Ia Infernus might be a better choice? It's so marginal though for damage increases since burn is meh.

[celest vine]

Occasionally snag a bomber or trapper kill

[wanton dawn]

ITS BORKED ANYWAY

[celest vine]

When they fuck off

[midnight mortar]

But fishing for crits doesn't matter as much on the Ia.

[terse idol]

Its better for bosses innit?

[celest vine]

No

[atomic zephyr]

onehits trapper to the head anyway

[frank ether]

I guess infernus is the low skill blessing

since you dont need a headshot

to benefit

just crit

[celest vine]

Cant do that without crit

[atomic zephyr]

oh i guess i had deadly accurate

wait

[frank ether]

I'm thinking I'd still prefer infernus on MG4 not on MGla

[atomic zephyr]

i couldve SWORN...

[celest vine]

Why I like the 12 slightly more

[frank ether]

but you know

sprint is kinda meme

[umbral granite]

good stats for chainsword or no? (i dont use the chainswords normally)

[atomic zephyr]

dude id use the 12 if it had the dps to keep up in today's meta

[midnight mortar]

To be clear, the XII still has the faster TTK if you get headshots compared to the other 2 Kantrael las rifles.

[frank ether]

I think I'd just accept my fate

and run infernus

[midnight mortar]

They're all at roughly the same level.

[atomic zephyr]

yyyeh fuck it why not

[midnight mortar]

I've used the 12 after all the changes and it's fine.

[atomic zephyr]

flak or maniac

[atomic zephyr]

maybe i was skill issuing then

[frank ether]

Its not even infernus 4 lmao hadron just had to do you like this

[midnight mortar]

It's just the Helbores mk1 and 2 do its job better with better anti-rager options built in.

[celest vine]

The MG1A needs a crit headshot to one hit gunners

[midnight mortar]

If you're bodyshotting though, the IV and Ia will of course outdps the XII.

[celest vine]

And is at minimum a 4 shot headshot to reapers

[terse idol]

Not bad

[celest vine]

Usually 5

[frank ether]

helbores just better designed weapon overall

[celest vine]

MG12 is a 2 shot consistently

[frank ether]

infantry lasguns are a little confused

[atomic zephyr]

if i could rename weapons (cant run the mod) id name this 'fuck you hadron'

[celest vine]

And 1 hit gunners consistently

[midnight mortar]

Nah, infantry lasguns have a niche. It's a small one, but it technically exists.

The real confused family are the Accatran recons.

[celest vine]

And with rager nerf you can one hit headshot ragers often

[frank ether]

their niche kinda sucks

[midnight mortar]

Those ones have no niche.

You're not wrong.

It's a niche few asked for.

[frank ether]

recons are just terrible

the problem I have with infantry las is

they are built like precision guns

have deadly accurate

and they kinda suck at killing big things

If they had less visual recoil maybe

[celest vine]

They exist to kill anything that isnt a boss

[frank ether]

or mauler

or crusher

[atomic zephyr]

just bodyshot the mauler

[celest vine]

You have a melee for crushers

And grenades for bosses

[frank ether]

build a sharpshooter lasgun build

[celest vine]

Your weapons dont need to one hit rvery enemy

[frank ether]

melee the crusher

niche is the right world here

[celest vine]

Powersword them up close

[junior grail]

Bold to assume a Crusher is always alone

[celest vine]

Or use a shovel

[frank ether]

If I want to suffer is a valid niche

then infant las is great

and recon is meta

[celest vine]

Sunder hits all of them

[junior grail]

Not everyone is blessed with rng haha

[celest vine]

I am

[junior grail]

You are Bismarck, not everyone hahaha

[celest vine]

Why my build works well

[frank ether]

sunder is meh

[vapid rock]

idk if this is a dumb question but is bolter viable?

[versed merlin]

yes

[vapid rock]

cool

[junior grail]

It is, meta no, viable yes

[vapid rock]

eh idk about meta

as long as im not being a detriment to my team with it

[wanton dawn]

Sunder is as "meh" as bm

That is a pretty high bar

[frank ether]

sunder means no bm

[junior grail]

Thats the best anyone can hope for

[wanton dawn]

Bm means no sunder

[terse idol]

Bolter is viable

[hollow ibex]

it's annoying to use sadly

[terse idol]

Not like meta, but its better than the recon

And thats all we can ask for

😌

[iron marten]

bolter is fun to use, even in auric damnation, and that's what matters

[vapid rock]

true...

i get to feel like one of them space marine folk

[hollow ibex]

i hate the sway and draw time

it's just so much extra work compared to a point and click adventure like plasma

[junior grail]

Those gosh darn Astartes fellers are pretty neat

[vapid rock]

yeah

too bad GW neglects them a ton

[frank ether]

sunder cant even cleave through poxwalkers

[wanton dawn]

Wat

[iron marten]

Wat

[frank ether]

have enough of them and you're just spamming attacks

whereas BM would melt like butter

[junior grail]

Hope next update gives necessary buffs

Some weapons need them to keep up

[wanton dawn]

Sunder niche is for elite. Not horde. It is better for twins for instance

[frank ether]

can you like

get to meat grinder

line up 4-5 trash

cleave with sunder

2 dead

3 survives

[wanton dawn]

Thats like saying that charging plasma is better cuz you cleave 14 mauler instead of 6

[frank ether]

bm cleaves them all clean in a single hit

[wanton dawn]

Do it with flak rager

Active for flavor

Then remind me the last time you got killed by poxwalker

[terse idol]

GW when ultramarines

[wanton dawn]

Bm is good, but pointing out that it is better than sunder at killing horde is like saying that psyker is better at stunning horde than zealot

[graceful glen]

sometimes the armory be hittin

[frank ether]

why would I build around melee killing ragers and crushers

on a sharpshooter vet

If I wanted to go for that I'd go for VoC melee

[limpid hull]

because even as a sharpshooter, it is very very likely you will have to deal with these enemies in melee anyway.

[wanton dawn]

Cuz mixed horde are a danger and horde of trash are not

[limpid hull]

especially on higher difficulties

[frank ether]

bm does deal with it

[limpid hull]

and peopole dont kill specials, so whileyou kill specials they run from ragers

[iron marten]

I use BM on my Laspistol Vet, mainly just to kill crushers with ease. Mixed Hordes I usually just kite them with a laspistol :p

[limpid hull]

i.e melee

[frank ether]

Its the 150 chaff next to your face that prevents you from shooting thats the problem

[wanton dawn]

And while bm kill faster, it does not stagger more

[frank ether]

and good luck clearing that if you're killing like 3 per swing

[wanton dawn]

Than sunder

[frank ether]

yes

cause they die

[wanton dawn]

Again: when was the lzst time you got killed by poxwalker ?

This discussion is pointless anyway

[atomic zephyr]

take off VoC for the first time in three rounds
immediately paired with people who apparently have zero add clear potential

[wanton dawn]

Sunder is not used to improve handling against lesser horde

[frank ether]

yes this is a pointless discussion

[wanton dawn]

As for me, i have video of handling 30 ragers with ps so i do have some experience on threat assessment

And i did the horde test on poxwalker. Bm is not faster

Bm is faster on bruiser

100 poxwalkee is around 10 to 12s on both blessing with my setup

Granted, was few patch ago

Sunder is specifically used against (flak) rager, mauler, crusher horde, bulwark

[frank ether]

I have tested it this patch

better roll on sunder

just not cleaving

single BM hit rolls like 5 heads

sunder needs multiple hits for the same result

[wanton dawn]

• sigh *

[snow pendant]

i like to chime in

the solution would be grenades

if they dont die use more grenades

[wanton dawn]

Technically yes, but not everyone rolls frags

[snow pendant]

i do, and thats good enough for me

[frozen meadow]

I made a grenade build with all grenade perks and it is super fun

Mince meats everything

[quasi socket]

done with mesc! finally!

did it on twins, premade group

[forest blaze]

Idk. I typically melee kill crushers and bulwarks to save ammo with plasma.

Save ammo for dudes that don’t take 9+ ammo to kill

[wanton dawn]

First try. BM 1st hit at 10, last at 18. Sunder first hit at 25, last (relevant) hit at 33 (sunder spread more damage instead of clean kill so enemies go all over the place)

[placid portal]

Bulwarks kinda annoying so warrents plasma to kill em and not have them cause teammates to hit their "shield" from behind

[wanton dawn]

One could say BM looks better. Ofc the test condition favor BM: enemies are all on the same spot, I only hit weakspot and the build allows bm to consistently OS

I could do a no talent comparison but what is the point ?

[forest blaze]

Yah I normally put a shot at them to drop their guard then chain axe their face

[versed merlin]

jesus christ

lvl 1034

how much time does that take

[wanton dawn]

Oh also sorry, sunder took 11 hit instead of bm 10 on this test. Boh freaking boh

[frozen meadow]

Damn I thought I played this game alot at lvl 90

[wanton dawn]

it is about 1k hours, but i only play vet

i have about 50 lvl on other class

combined

[versed merlin]

man im sitting here almost 300 hours in and my vet isnt even lvl 30 yet

so, what is the difference between sunder and bm? and when does one shines better than the other?

sunder seems to cleave more than bm

[frozen meadow]

Im at 200hrs. I probably don't lvl up much because I keep failing auric damnations lol

[wanton dawn]

That's litterally it. The difference is that they have different scenario where one is better

[versed merlin]

but bm gives dmg on weakspot

[wanton dawn]

Sure, but sunder can cleave through armor

including bulwark and carapace

when you factor the fact that PS light hit stagger almost everything, hitting more target means more stagger

it is especially relevant against rager

[versed merlin]

hmm interesting

[midnight mortar]

Of all the hardmode attempts at which I thought I'd finally kill the Twins, I didn't expect it to be with a relic zealot.

I'm pleasantly surprised.

[versed merlin]

mine was in a pug and there was this ogryn lvl 70 or something that melted both bosses shields with that submachine gun of theirs

[wanton dawn]

no dodge example

I could add a bulwark as well

[midnight mortar]

Probably helped the squad had 2 ogryns, but still I usually see relic zealots just having 0 uptime while also not being able to hold their own.

[versed merlin]

but now that i think about it, if you have a mixed horde, bm would carry the dmg from the first target you hit to all the others right? so if i one shot an enemy, that damage will also apply to the next target that could be a carapace enemy, so that would be better, no? at least thats how i understand how bm works

[midnight mortar]

Maybe he knew what he was doing with the eviscerator.

[midnight mortar]

It doesn't even have to kill that enemy.

It just has to hit their weakspot.

Then BM ensures that your full damage application is applied to the next target.

[terse idol]

That's pretty goooood

[wanton dawn]

The problem is bm would get stopped by meaty target

[versed merlin]

oh new evis can just get 100% cdr with backstab node very easily during hordes

oh yeah

[versed merlin]

does naked ragers and mutants stops such damage?

[midnight mortar]

It's partly a question of how much damage you want applied to which target in the end. BM ensures your full damage is applied until it's stopped by the meaty thing.

Sunder splits your damage further across more targets, but you're dealing less damage overall.

[wanton dawn]

Hence why I keep saying sunder is specifically better defensively

Not offensively

Because you have more consistent stagger

[versed merlin]

hmm does bm gives any new breakpoints for psword?

bc if not, then sunder could literally be better

[midnight mortar]

Yes, specifically the push attack into l3 combo on crusher heads to 2 hit them.

[versed merlin]

ahhh yeah theres that too

[midnight mortar]

You can only do that with BM as one of the blessings and PC at least tier 3 as the other.

[wanton dawn]

For instance, if you test bm against flak rager when they are standing still, bm and sunder both looks as good as one another

In practice though, bm will only hit 2 flak rager at a time

meaning you can only stagger 2, which can obviously be a problem

[wanton dawn]

naked rager is 3 target max without sunder

[midnight mortar]

It kills them faster, which I think would be the priority with a psword. Most people aren't looking at the psword for defensive play. If they wanted that, they'd opt for a shovel.

[wanton dawn]

It does not. It is about same ttk

[versed merlin]

damn

[midnight mortar]

Let me see if I have weapons to test that with.

[versed merlin]

that makes it hard to choose between the 2 really

[trim steppe]

Ooh fellahs, looky what Brunt is selling. I'm gonna roll it

[wanton dawn]

am gonna make a vid against 5 flak

[versed merlin]

might as well give up power cycle and take both bm and sunder

[midnight mortar]

Don't be a fool.

[versed merlin]

jk

[trim steppe]

hot diggity

[versed merlin]

i think you could 1 to 2 tap crushers with that thing

if you can cosplay ogryn doing thrust heavies

[trim steppe]

Whats the shovel meta looking like rn?

[wanton dawn]

Crit is ruining the test but you get the idea

do keep in mind that again, the test tend to favor bm cuz i only hit weakspot

[versed merlin]

doesnt seem like its favoring bm tbh

[wanton dawn]

I have one with a fat crit on the bm side

[versed merlin]

theres no comparison against sunder cleave in that clip

[wanton dawn]

I discovered sunder when trying to do a me vs 30 flak rager video

Cuz i could not proc rampage

[midnight mortar]

Ok 30 flak ragers is a bit excessive.

[wanton dawn]

because flak rager are 2 target max

[midnight mortar]

Even in aurics they don't throw that many at you all at once.

[quasi socket]

is there a prefered build with plasma? running weapon master right now

[versed merlin]

tag keystone

weapon specialist only benefits the first shot you do

[terse idol]

let's say 15

😌

[wanton dawn]

I do have one with 30 dreg from a few patch ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRbIBlhX0z4&feature=youtu.be

I love that thumbnail btw

[midnight mortar]

Personally, I currently still prefer BM if only because it enables me to cut through more bruisers to then apply the most damage I can to things that are actually a threat (anything large enough to stop my cleave).

Because cutting down the chaff to then have room to push attack/heavy or light the important survivors is what I prefer doing with the psword.

But I'm also assuming my teammates won't necessarily be able to kill what I'm fighting at that moment. So I prefer not staggering and leaving them alive longer.

[versed merlin]

[versed merlin]

yeah i guess its a matter of testing and seeing how it goes

i wouldnt be able to tell which one is better by just looking at their performance and not feeling them myself

[midnight mortar]

With ragers I'm often kiting them backwards anyhow, so no more than 2 or 3 are engaging in an attack animation at any one time.

[wanton dawn]

Man, I cant make a joke with that

[versed merlin]

thats something i love in fatshark since vermintide 2, theres not always the better option, but the one that appeals you more

[midnight mortar]

Haha, yeah try telling that to Fatshark. RIP Accatran Recon Mk VId.

🫡 🪦 I think of you every day.

Especially now against the Twins.

[wanton dawn]

Am not saying sunder is better than BM. I am just annoyed when ppl keep dismissing sunder when IMO it is just as good

And probably easier to use

In fact, I think sunder is better than bm against twins specifically

[midnight mortar]

If it allows you to cleave past their shields, then yes it may be.

If only because their goddamn shield auras protect ragers inside them.

[versed merlin]

not just that, but theres often more elite packs than lesser enemies around

[low oar]

Imagine if the infinite smite glitch was still around now for the twins

Or release relic where it just stunned bosses on each pulse

[versed merlin]

imagine if recons were relevant now for the twins

could be proccing those brittleness on everybody

but that cant be us

[wanton dawn]

I have not played bm psword in a while so i don't know for sure. I think it does though, considering my "feeling" on scab captain

I cannot beat 30 ragers reliably anymore cuz we lost stun immunity since then

I think 10 is a more realistic number

maybe a bit more if i use VoC

[versed merlin]

yeah or 5 with a few maulers and crushers in

[quasi socket]

mind sendin a tree my way so i can dabble?

[wanton dawn]

5 is easy

Not even a clean showcast

adding mauler or crusher won't make a difference here

Even a bulwark

[versed merlin]

im not a reliable source for information, since im still a beginner here as well, but this is the most popular vet build in gameslantern. i would change a few things myself, like taking off the competitive urge as its prob an overkill and would only help with saving some ammo to kill crushers and maulers maybe.

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9a565016-bd70-4fe0-8c82-1080bc73412e/veteran-squad-leader

man pc4 looks game changing really

[midnight mortar]

It is.

Mostly in the ease of use category, and then some specific combos.

Allows you to achieve your optimal TTKs.

[wanton dawn]

I did fail miserably on the previous try cuz i got stuck on boxes

[limber egret]

thoughts on this?

i know the infested enemy perk is garbage

but i was thinking of replacing wrath with rampage or slaughter

[midnight mortar]

BM or Sunder.

[versed merlin]

also, you dont need rending strikes i think? since plasma already ignores armor

[quasi socket]

aight thanks. gonna try it for a bit!

[limber egret]

since extra damage and this is meant to be my horde clearing weapon

[midnight mortar]

Rampage and Slaughterer are lower sidegrades.

[versed merlin]

dude thats crazy

[limber egret]

oh is that why?

[wanton dawn]

BM gives you up to 4 first target damage

[flat furnace]

is sustained fire good on this thing? wanting to defeat the twins on hard

[limber egret]

i do have a tier 3 BM i can take from another power sword i can take and put it on my current power sword

[versed merlin]

there are much better options

[limber egret]

so just do that instead?

[flat furnace]

I guessed as much

[versed merlin]

dumdum and deathspitter for example

[crude fiber]

sustained fire has been bad since launch and probably will remain bad forever

[wanton dawn]

realistically the only thing crazy about that is that it only took me 2 tries to get the video. It is really not that hard

[crude fiber]

MAYBE if the make it proc every 3rd and 4th shots but even then pretty meh

[versed merlin]

yeah like bulwarks are so painful to deal with when you have more dangerous threats. just makes everything annoying

[flat furnace]

for the boss fight on hard ysay?

[versed merlin]

even for that, yeah

deathspitter could be replaced with something else though not sure what

[limber egret]

hey so BM says weakspot hit mass ignores hit mass

[versed merlin]

melee gal takes more damage from ranged attacks, so you just kite her and keep shotting. you'll have dumdum up and thats 25~30% damage on all your shots

[limber egret]

what does it do exactly?

[wanton dawn]

If BM kills on weakspot, your damage does not decrease on the next target. Up to 4 target

[midnight mortar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046912126746374274/1185815571762270258/Power_Sword_Mk_6_Blessings.mp4?ex=6590fbcf&is=657e86cf&hm=3efa24f727747f15e4bbf65f09e6a126de61d3fb9c5bbc36e0ccad78baa0cccf&

[limber egret]

oh thats what it does?

[flat furnace]

I'm trying to get fire frenzy for the bf

i heard it's pretty good

[frank ether]

I agree with your point on carapace horde but when the context is infantry las pulling out melee vet isn't very relatable either

[terse idol]

Oh yeah it's either Death spitter or FF

But I don't know the limitations

[versed merlin]

not sure, idk which one is better between deathspitter and fire frenzy

[terse idol]

Oh

[flat furnace]

i was aiming to have both on my gun lol

[wanton dawn]

yeah

[terse idol]

It's Power Vs Close range damage

[terse idol]

you still want dum dum

It's vallue

[versed merlin]

but for twins, if you're not dealing with the elites that spawns on you, dumdum is a must, the other one could be anything ig

[terse idol]

helps you make the first kill on either FF or Deathspitter

[wanton dawn]

Sometimes I feel like I am the only sunder stan here

[frank ether]

isnt dumdum generally a must

[versed merlin]

yeah dumdum is the more consistent as it doesnt need you to kill something to get stacks

[frank ether]

well its not like you HAVE TO have dumdum

[versed merlin]

the others need you to kill something to get a buff out of it

[frank ether]

but its pretty much free damage to have it

[flat furnace]

I wonder what "power" means
it is more dmg?

[versed merlin]

dmg cleave and stagger

[wanton dawn]

more damage, more cleave, more impact

[frank ether]

power is more everything

power gud

[versed merlin]

5% power is 5% dmg, 5 cleave and 5 stagger

[wanton dawn]

unless impact means something else, idk

[flat furnace]

fuck really? so i might as well have that and stop wasting resources to get fire frenzy

[versed merlin]

thats a very good idea honestly

[wanton dawn]

so FS names are annoyiing

[versed merlin]

take stealth and just go free real state shooting them in the backs

[frank ether]

dumdum-raking on infil vet with knife

thats how a friend did it

[midnight mortar]

Impact is stagger, yes. It's just FS defines stagger as a state whereas impact is the stat that applies it.

[wanton dawn]

Raking fire found its place against twins ? Nice

[frank ether]

I mean its gonna depend on your team a lot obv

[flat furnace]

frick i wish i could just transform diamantine into plasteel

[versed merlin]

dont we all

[frank ether]

but raking gud

raking was always good

just situational

[wanton dawn]

[versed merlin]

jesus, where can i find that

[wanton dawn]

Lemme guess. 30 min zealot

[frank ether]

like %40 something damage on 180 degree angle

thats unsuprising

if any build could do it

its gonna be a stealth one

wait

rly?

gapcloser zealot

whuh

thats interesting

[limber egret]

i had a game as 4 ogryns

[frank ether]

I mean its quite strong

[limber egret]

against the twins

[versed merlin]

lmao

what a chad

[frank ether]

thought so

if you're handling aggro from both twins

and whatever else spawns

[limber egret]

also thoughts on this?

[wanton dawn]

It is more of a build showcast video at this point nah ?

[frank ether]

kinda

feel like

raking-dumdum ciag is ideal for shield dmg on melee twin

if an ogy is pulling it away

[wanton dawn]

where the solo hm twins vidjo btw ?

[frank ether]

obv not in a solo context

but I'd like to see a video of it

[serene sage]

it's not bad, usable while looking for something even better, try to find Surgical 4 over Pinning Fire

or at least Pinning fire at higher level

[limber egret]

oh i actually didnt want surgical

for what im going for

my build currently allows me to one magazine bosses

[serene sage]

oh then nothing else, really, I think maniac would let you mag dump ragers better

[limber egret]

if im hitting weakspot and volly fire on

i went heavy weakspot damage build

[serene sage]

i think you can sacrifice that for a bit better kill power vs Ragers and Mutants

but if you like it then it's cool

[limber egret]

heres my replacement bolter

[serene sage]

what is the skin on that?

Damage and Reload?

[wanton dawn]

Am not doing solo, my life is too short for that kind of challenge

[limber egret]

this skin

it was when the steel legion skin was available

it was like

[serene sage]

i see

[limber egret]

every weapon in enitre game gets this skin

[sharp ember]

my literal 0% stability bolter

[midnight mortar]

Nearly a year ago.

[limber egret]

not just the bolter

it was all weapons in the game

was worth it really

[midnight mortar]

Yeah back when the bundles included weapon skins and a trinket.

[serene sage]

inflation

am i right

[midnight mortar]

🤣

[limber egret]

but yeah the blue bolter i posted is the new one i was gonna replace my current bolter with

[frank ether]

if you avoid touching grass for long enough you too can learn this power

[limber egret]

has high modifiers on everything

and has a good perk

[serene sage]

well if you ever have a chance, try surgical bolt

it feels a lot better than the boss killing build which i think is gimmicky

[wanton dawn]

Considering my own character level I cant make this kind of joke anymore

[limber egret]

my older bolter has it

[frank ether]

yea much more riveting to play

[wanton dawn]

I am

tbf you are lvl 1000 spread across character nah ?

[serene sage]

you guys play other classes?

[frank ether]

gunker

[wanton dawn]

He is

[serene sage]

is it possible to learn this power?

I swear I struggled so fking hard

to even do 50 missions on Ogryn

[frank ether]

make a psyker and play it like a hipster veteran

[serene sage]

for the insignia

I was so bored

[frank ether]

you even get the ''blue mark'' keystone

[wanton dawn]

I can even prove it !

[frank ether]

that does the spotting for you lmao

[limber egret]

also Oof i have 11 profane plasma guns

[serene sage]

yeah I do play that

[serene sage]

for a few games

I think Disrupt Destiny should be a vet keystone

[limber egret]

what it feels like trying to get good rolls in this game

[serene sage]

but alas

[limber egret]

i have 18 plasma guns total

[frank ether]

honestly I'm not even mad about deadshot being what it is

I'd be a lot happier if sharpshooter keystone wasnt dogshit

[wanton dawn]

If I ever get bored at some point I might simply switch game altogether

idk

[frank ether]

I dont play other classes enough so I want to say marksman focus may be the single worst keystone in the entire game

but who knows

maybe there is a worse one that I'm overrating

[serene bough]

Its pretty bad

[frank ether]

Its not just the whole stand still thing

nono

thats not the only problem with mf

[serene bough]

It doesn't do anything meaningful

[frank ether]

the rending is RANGED ONLY and 10 STACKS UP

the toughness regen is trash

[trim steppe]

Yeah the lucky bullet keystone for ogryn is good for a single weapon, everything else its terrible

[frank ether]

camo thing locks the 15 stacks one

[serene sage]

it is nice but I don't feel like toughness was a problem when shooting vs other ranged enemies?

like as vet I just stand and shoot

[frank ether]

and there is no stamina replenishment option for mf

[limber egret]

my main veteran talent build doesnt use any keystones

[frank ether]

the sharpshooter keystone DOESNT SYNERGIZE WITH DEADSHOT

[wanton dawn]

ROFL, ogryn spending 3 points to get 8% ranged crit

[serene sage]

oh shit

okay then it's busted

[frank ether]

thats honestly the smart thing to do at this point but even in the realm of vet keystones mf is like

dogwater

its like in a league of its own

[limber egret]

marksmen focuse seem like would be better if walking did not remove stacks

[frank ether]

At least

[versed merlin]

it doesnt remove all at once

[frank ether]

they put all the relevant stuff up in the left tree

so you can just ignore it

which seems to be dev intention

take your deadshot/precision

and dont look down

you do if you want to benefit from rending

[serene sage]

i get max stacks with camo after like 2s

[wanton dawn]

It would probably be better if focus target was not better statwise in general ?

[serene sage]

it's not bad to get stacks, but i don't feel like it alters my playstyle

i just play like normal

[frank ether]

focus mark is also not bad if you just want a tiny benefit

[serene sage]

at least with ping and swap keystone

[serene bough]

Yeah the stacks don't do anything

[serene sage]

I have to think

[frank ether]

it also gives your entire team those same buffs btw

toughness

stamina

damage

extra boss damage

team wide

[frank ether]

and all you have to do is occasionally press spot

[limber egret]

my vet build for botton haft

when im using plasma gun