veteran-class

[crude ermine]

Yeah that

[wide anvil]

Now this

THIS is Pod Racing

[patent valley]

i was like, what are u smoking, i want headtaker on lasguns

[crude ermine]

I don't remember the names I just look at the icons

[patent valley]

do a lawbringer/kantrael with flechette and manstopper

[wide anvil]

God have mercy on the one Poxwalker that gets burned and bleeded

[patent valley]

then run a weapon specialist build

[wide anvil]

This is for my Weapon Specialist build already thankfully

Scattershot unnecessary but it'd be fun in the case I have to quickswap without the stacks

[patent valley]

still tryna get flechette

[wide anvil]

I got lucky going through the Armoury on the one hour I decided to check at one point

[patent valley]

aint showing up in shop nor melk

[wide anvil]

Otherwise you have to deliberately get a low roll Kantrael

[patent valley]

and im lazy to level up my other vet to the point where it can get t2 blessings

[wide anvil]

THAT'S pain

[patent valley]

my other vet can get t1, t2 if lucky, i rolled manstopper from there, but didnt realize that flechette is also t2

i thought flechette was t4 tbh

[delicate lotus]

is shotgun vet actually a thing?

[patent valley]

idk why it isnt, would've made sense

[patent valley]

yes, very much so

not meta, but pretty good and fun imo

[wide anvil]

Shotguns are pretty good too, they can still snipe

[patent valley]

yea, just takes few extra shots

unless u use agripina

[wide anvil]

Was bad during the Patch 13 release but after they buffed the ammo and damage it's much more doable

[delicate lotus]

Since my aim will never be truly exceptional i went went with spread or heavy firerate weapons in most shooters i played

[wide anvil]

Me playing Gaige in Borderlands 2 with maxed out Close Enough Talent

[delicate lotus]

i like i care what is meta i hate that worrd with a passion

[patent valley]

shotguns with manstopper + scattershot is like a mini kickback

very fun

[wide anvil]

Kickback on Ogryn makes me want to work on mine too

[wide anvil]

Gotta have some hours on my Vet first though

[crude ermine]

I got one similar but with no respite instead of manstopper

[wide anvil]

Mans Stopped

[patent valley]

the perks are not bad, despite not being flak maniac

at least both are 25%

i'll probably change scattershot

then change both blessings as i want to fit my mood

[delicate lotus]

@spark helm Which lasgun would recommend?

[ivory rock]

Im never getting CR4

[crude ermine]

I mean...least it has maniac damage?

[dusky flare]

Don't need it

[patent valley]

well, dont want it on zarona usually

its only 24% crit chance anyway

[dusky flare]

It's not like surgical where the ranks drastically improve

[ivory rock]

If last roll is anythin half good imma just throw cr to Surg 4 n elites to flak

[dusky flare]

What does flak do on zarona again?

[patent valley]

well u gotta pray for hand cannon

[patent valley]

? increase flak dmg?

[dusky flare]

Bruh..

Zarona isn't supposed to stack DPS it's a bp gun

[patent valley]

the whole point of getting increased flak dmg is to reach the bp

of one shotting flak ragers

https://tenor.com/view/smh-laugh-gif-19892494

[dusky flare]

Why are you facepalming when you gave a non response instead of answering the question lol

Gee I dint know flak damage increases flak damage!

[patent valley]

cuz that's what u asked

[dusky flare]

Cheers

[patent valley]

u ask what it does, not what u want it for

[dusky flare]

Forget I said anything

[patent valley]

and u the one that made this response rather than clarifying ^

[spark helm]

The default Kantrael MG la Infantry Lasgun is certainly the functional middle ground of the three: easy to use, easier to lay down fire and fast enough to not be that much of a possibly overwhelming recoil control situation.

[astral blade]

https://tenor.com/view/wow-gif-20411229

[placid portal]

Zarona do be a magnum Donger

[astral blade]

I just wanted to do this

[spark helm]

If you want safe, that's your gun.

For that build specifically

[astral blade]

https://tenor.com/view/darktide-darktide-sharpshooter-darktide-veteran-hello-chat-darktide-hello-chat-gif-2742873438399829862

[placid portal]

Agripinaa Revolver Vet enthusiats where you at

[patent valley]

lotta people saying it outdps the mk12 lasgun now

it may be the best one of the bunch

[placid portal]

I cannot switch back to zarona since the moment I equipped the Yehaw

[spark helm]

That's the other lasgun right? The slower fire rate with higher average dps?

[placid portal]

MG12 makes easier BPs vs M1a

[patent valley]

ye

[astral blade]

How’s things fellas

[placid portal]

M1a just feels like a good middle ground

[patent valley]

well i might be wrong, since lotta people to me is just most of my friends

or most of the players i played with

[spark helm]

Mhm. Back then I definitely preferred the 12 since it just was less effort to make sure it could efficiently 1-2 weaker major targets and maybe like 3-5 tap others. Idr.

This is before the overhaul patch from my perspective.

[patent valley]

things fine

[placid portal]

personally I think the slower firerate is more of a benefit when the kantrael lasguns always jump a bit too wild so MG12 kinda sets a good pace

[cold shuttle]

Hey, sorry for the delay. IRL etc. But I read through your post and screenshotted your build. Thanks a lot! Will implement

[patent valley]

personally, i think the infantry lasguns are not a good weapon rn, at least in the higher difficulties

[placid portal]

same

[patent valley]

too slow

[placid portal]

it feel a bit off

[patent valley]

rn meta is fast

[placid portal]

though I guess it's the perfect representation of the Imperial Guardsmen

[spark helm]

For me la is simply the strongest choice. Comparatively I'm not missing my shots even when going full semi auto rapid fire. Nobody else has to play like this, but I sweat when I'm in a target rich environment because I like doing it anyway. I'm not the speed of the 12 is literally just not fast enough and the other one is a little too fast for me to actually control the faster play I put myself through

[patent valley]

guardsmen on our side are like stormtroopers, keep missing shots

[placid portal]

rn I do not wanna do another hab-70-04

[patent valley]

wolfer's traitor guardsmen, all way more accurate

that why they got annihilated during the cinematic

for traitor's curse

[placid portal]

nah

the vet operatives forgot new skilltree and entered damnation with no passives

[patent valley]

i mean they couldnt even shoot a poxburster walking in a straightline when we were in jail bro

[spark helm]

Considering all this bullshit you got in 40K I'm not surprised. Good luck actually shooting most, if any of these fucking things with surefire accuracy and precision enough to actually put it down.

[placid portal]

how can you miss an ork

[spark helm]

Have you shot a gun at a moving target?

[placid portal]

IT'S RUNNING STRAIGHT AT YOU

[spark helm]

No shade, genuine question

[placid portal]

Yesn't

[patent valley]

irl nah, i was refering to in game

[placid portal]

[patent valley]

maybe, one of these days

[spark helm]

Yeah nah, nobody is hitting shit in darktide lmao

[patent valley]

at one of the local ranges called skools

[spark helm]

Not a novice at least

[placid portal]

Gotta pop a helluva lot of stims

[patent valley]

[sharp ember]

no but i have to push poxbursters away from me on my commute to work

[patent valley]

makes sense

[spark helm]

Damn. That's fucked.

[placid portal]

commit unconsensual stim injection

[patent valley]

they keep blocking the door

[placid portal]

[patent valley]

there was this poxburster, with like, a third wooden leg, it was blocking the way to the escalator

pushed it off

problem solved

[spark helm]

Can you commit suicide as a human without being thrown into more bullshit?

In 40k

[placid portal]

if you suicide you will be served

Even in death you are served

[patent valley]

at the very least, u'll become sustenance

[patent valley]

as food

[placid portal]

in 40 Degrees dry heat

[spark helm]

Trash universe. Let me out

[patent valley]

https://tenor.com/view/winnie-the-pooh-hungry-yummy-nom-nom-hangry-gif-17624677

[placid portal]

Yea wh40k do be that edgy grimdank

[patent valley]

now imagine a pile of muck on his plate ^

that's u after u suicided 🫵

[spark helm]

Garbage

[placid portal]

OI YOU GOT A LOISENCE FOR YOUR CORSPESTARCH FROM THE CORPSE GUILD???

[patent valley]

https://tenor.com/view/bit-sad-innit-sad-dog-doge-ceren-gif-21025557

[spark helm]

A license for shit brick food?

Maaaaaan FUCK 40k

[placid portal]

cannibalism is strictly prohibityed

unless dire and desperate situation from command of order

[patent valley]

but with your help we can legalize it!

[placid portal]

https://tenor.com/view/tts-exterminatus-inquisitor-headsmash-gif-20422853

[delicate lotus]

I went with Krak as a name for my Vet

[patent valley]

cool, my vet's named Karker

[patent valley]

i like how the exterminatus button is someone's big bald scalp

[wide anvil]

Less enticing than a big red button I'd say

[patent valley]

at least its smoother

[wide anvil]

Yes xd

[patent valley]

https://tenor.com/view/anime-bald-gif-26454753

[spark helm]

It's the imperium. Seems like their nonsense would allow for it

They certainly aren't allowed fun

[placid portal]

Unless you're a noble or lord

[patent valley]

ah u mean bullet catchers?

[placid portal]

What's the difference?

[patent valley]

https://tenor.com/view/child-9gag-gif-no-noo-gif-18262281

[placid portal]

PoV: you found the sniper bastard after he downed the Ogryn

[patent valley]

true

https://tenor.com/view/batman-slap-in-the-face-robin-gif-15261740

just bonk the shxt out of it with my revolver bash

[placid portal]

https://tenor.com/view/muda-muda-giorno-giovanna-jo-jo-gold-experience-muda-gif-14208679

Even better with combat knife punching

[patent valley]

yes

slap with ogryn

[cerulean dove]

I've seen an ogryn ragdoll a flamer Into the warp

[patent valley]

good, he's done well

[cerulean dove]

Tbh I'm pretty sure if you use the bolter enough you can send anyone to the warp with a bullet

[woeful ibex]

thanks sire Melk

[ivory rock]

There's the brick

[nimble sentinel]

that's not a knife, it's an insulin needle

[ivory rock]

Prob gonna run hand cannon over tb and just throw on flak over elites

How i feel after wasting plas on a brick

[chilly sandal]

Pretty good brick if you ask me

[thick rose]

dumdum and deathspitter on columnus iag?

[muted knot]

hey what kind of build do i run with the columnous?

[sharp ember]

literally anything you want, it's a versatile infantry autogun

[thick rose]

and like... flak/maniac for perks on col iag?

[sharp ember]

stealth backshooter, exe stance face shooter, shout guy with a gun, grenade guy with a gun, etc.

[jovial nexus]

[placid portal]

🍹

Cheers to that

[rose wedge]

Hello fellow vets

What do I do to thisi to make it better?

(Bloodletter is kind of a placeholder maybe? I had replaced Rev it Up which I find typically useless)

[placid portal]

Slaughter is fun

[junior grail]

Pardon moi, was there any possible mention about fire being nerfed soon?

[topaz lance]

*buffed
It will be insta-kill

[junior grail]

Awesome!

[small echo]

How would you Build a Vet using only the power sword?

[topaz lance]

On a serious note though I think FS acknowledged that it needs to be nerfed and are prioritizing it

[junior grail]

Very cool

I wonder if Vet tree is now acceptable by all

[topaz lance]

An honestly that's good because I really hate it

[junior grail]

Feels fine overall except Marksman Focus imo

[topaz lance]

MArksman focus is good too

[junior grail]

I played with one person who said Fire damage now is good... almost gave me an aneurysm when he said that

Then again, he rarely plays Damnation +

[misty lance]

lenin and pilsudzki

[junior grail]

Yea probs just me not being able to utilise it

[misty lance]

i will kick this mf ass

[south spindle]

In what context?

[junior grail]

He said it will teach people not to stay in fire

[south spindle]

Oh wait like from flamers an shit, gotcha

Lmao

[thick rose]

being rezzed in fire is good stuff

[junior grail]

Specifically Bombers Fire

[south spindle]

Yeah... not much say in it when muties have a habit of charging into fire when you're grabbed

Had a couple clutches ruined by that last night

[azure zephyr]

Is it just me or is the Lucius complete with bring it down and rending a complete beast against crushers?

[junior grail]

Best part is he later questioned why someone he picked up in fire died immediately after

[azure zephyr]

Like yeah... krak grenades exist but sometimes it feels good to get vengeance for what old veteran vrs crusher felt like (with lasgun)

[junior grail]

Might just be me, but I stopped using Kraks

[azure zephyr]

I keep em around since big boom dismembering a target after I regen them every 60 seconds feels good

[junior grail]

Yea cant deny that

[lost shadow]

is finesse important? there's any mod which will help me understand how good a weapon is?

[south spindle]

Same on a lot of builds tbh, though anything which doesnt have at least reliable armour pen, i'll still take em

[sharp ember]

press v to inspect and mouse over the stat bars to get details

[south spindle]

Done Shotgun/Melee build last night an you deffo need em there

[azure zephyr]

My veteran playstyle is just all the damn place

[lost shadow]

yeah doesn't seem important

[junior grail]

Ah thats one build I havent farmed up yet

[azure zephyr]

And i wouldnt have ut any other way

[fresh mango]

Holy SHIT

I think this is the actual lowest ive ever seen

[sharp ember]

bro got the chainaxe with blunted teeth

[junior grail]

The bluntest saw teeth

More like a back massager of death

[fresh mango]

I feel like i have to get it to preserve it

[junior grail]

Slaanesh's happy toy

[south spindle]

Worth doing mate, FF/Manstopper on a Kantreal has seemingly become top notch of late because FF stacks remain on swap, so provided you swap back to the shotgun in the 3.5s timeframe, you can have both the guaranteed crits and Manstopper, AND keep building stacks, works gud

[azure zephyr]

If a minmaxing type of player saw my build I'd bet they have an aneurysm

[south spindle]

"Strive for efficiency in all things, Varlet"

[azure zephyr]

Since I'm only here to do two things: Keep my team alive as possible and kill whatever they're lacking to take care of efficiently.

And then if need be fight my way back to my team as they forget me as I fight a horde or try to get a good shot on an incoming burster

The usual

[umbral garnet]

https://tenor.com/view/war-vietnam-ptsd-shell-shock-moment-gif-3022747568394546158

[azure zephyr]

That 1 coherancy stare

[acoustic wyvern]

fight me on this, taking maniac dmg is better than flak dmg

[topaz lance]

what weapon though

[acoustic wyvern]

in general

[topaz lance]

eh, for melee horde clearing I would argue flak is much more valuable if it helps one tab bruisers

[keen wharf]

they added the metal pipe drop sound everytime a necron dies, i cant...

[south spindle]

Nah, a lot of weapons do better with Flak than Maniacs

That being said, most firearms benifit from both more than they do anything else

Melee is a bit different, a lot of melee weapons one tap all the smaller maniacs, and in most cases you shouldnt be engaging Ragers in melee as Vet unless your weapon is capable of dealing with more than one

[scarlet vessel]

bricked 🤬

[umbral garnet]

Power sword two-tap 🤤

[south spindle]

Wont touch it with a barge pole myself, crutch weapon just like plasma

[umbral garnet]

I recently got into the plasma gun. Holy shit it's fun.

[south spindle]

Sure, its fun, but its also gamebreaking

[umbral garnet]

That is fair, yes.

I just like the sounds.

Bwoomp

[south spindle]

If they lower the cleave value substantially on uncharged and take charged down to like 60 instead of 100, it'd be a bit more balanced

Ofc it would still destroy, but damn.. whoever thought 100 cleave on uncharged attacks was a good idea needs their weed taken off then

[umbral garnet]

Absolutely derailing a conga line of Ragers is pretty baller, though.

[zealous wyvern]

shouldnt it just heat faster

[south spindle]

Nah, being able to gank 10 elites as they come out the spawn door removes a lot of the threat they would otherwise pose, which adds up over the course of a mission an can make some modifiers utterly trivial

Its fun, but its not healthy for the game in the long term

[sharp ember]

we stay true to the tabletop game

add 1/6 chance to blow up

[placid portal]

God how can Zealots get away with so much pressure XDD

Legit got wiped but solo'd enough to save teammates as zealot for some reason

[south spindle]

Class is designed for the high pressure situations

Its the "Oh i now have to clutch" character

[umbral garnet]

And screaming a lot.

[south spindle]

Yes, and screaming a lot

[placid portal]

Somehow when i play zealot the "High Pressure" Situations become the norm

[south spindle]

Yeah.. Zealot brain is real

[proven plaza]

chowder

[south spindle]

"I can make this dive" shortly followed by "Oh this is hairy"

[placid portal]

Usually for me it's like, oh someone's dying, oh wait I'm the last man standing

The Holy Revenant is such a clutch XD

[forest scaffold]

Literally the only problem is the finesse modifier on light attacks

That's it

if fatshark kills the finesse modifier on light attacks, its forced to interact with its charge mechanic

[south spindle]

Yeah, sure, but its still one shotting like 10 gunners or ragers, which is not Ok

[forest scaffold]

Light attacks should never oneshot anything outside of adds

I mean yeah, the charge cleave is still uh

problematic

But its a fuckin plasma gun so I donno

drop it to like 15 cleave

But the big standout problem with Plasma Gun is that it has 50 cleave on a light attack, and can oneshot nearly everything.

[south spindle]

Nah its flat 100 mate

[forest scaffold]

Oh

I thought it was 50/100

[south spindle]

On both charge and uncharged

[forest scaffold]

cause that'd be intelligent game design

[south spindle]

Nope

Yeah... well... 100 is not an intelligent number for charged either

[forest scaffold]

Yeah, little nutso

[south spindle]

It toally shouldnt stop on poxies, but it should not be wiping everything in its path

[forest scaffold]

I mean, the only way to really fix that is to give weapons cleave values on different ADMs

So you could keep the 100 cleave on UA/Infested

then rapidly drop it off on different ADMs

[umbral garnet]

All I know is, I'll be enjoying it while it lasts. I am all for balance, but when something this ridiculous comes along, can't not pass up the opportunity.

[south spindle]

That would make sense yeah

Though how easy that is for FS to do is another matter entirely

That being said, we're probably getting a Melta at somepoint, so the code could be reused there too

[forest scaffold]

Its the only way to really fix the plasma gun's cleave without making poxwalkers infuriating to deal with.

But yeah.

The overall biggest issue is the finesse modifier on light attacks.

Being able to oneshot maulers with a light attack is just bad

Carapace headshot required, so cleave isn't super problematic.

But that doesn't do anything about machinegunners, shotgunners, or ragers.

[south spindle]

Yeah gun is extremely fucking borked right now

That an PSword are both arguably the most problematic weapons in a vacuum

[forest scaffold]

Power Sword not even in a vacuum lmao

[south spindle]

Its very busted yeah

[forest scaffold]

shits so overpowered it makes every other melee weapon in the game completely redundant

literally every single one

[south spindle]

Yeuuup

[forest scaffold]

Just

fuckin remove power cycler already

and 99% of the issues with power sword are solved immediately

[cloud leaf]

dont remove it just add it to paul and force sword and every other powered weapon then its balanced

[forest scaffold]

No

fuck off

[south spindle]

thats not how that works

[forest scaffold]

That shit makes me angry

"Make everything OP so nothing is" is fucking terrible for games

[south spindle]

Its an attitude perpetuated by people who have zero idea about what makes a game engaging

[forest scaffold]

Speaking of engaging

[forest scaffold]

I wish Fatshark would normalize Veteran's DR

The swings between "Literally Invulnerable" and "You die to a sneeze" are infuriating

And it just makes VoC the no brainer pick for 90% of the player population.

[wary galleon]

i love the recon lasguns, but i just cant justify my rambo desires with the ammo efficiency. anyone else think they kinda need a buff?

[forest scaffold]

Hyper build them

With the talent tree

and use Executioner's Stance

they reach some fucked DPS values

[iron elk]

they were nerfed too hard last time around

[forest scaffold]

https://streamable.com/uj6daw

[south spindle]

If im honest i think thats by design, Infil has a similar effect, an Exe' is the "high effort" ult

Keystones work similarly

[wary galleon]

im using a fully ranged build with the lasgun free ammo on crit talent.
and the lasgun in the picture has the 80% ammo modifier, i just think 12% per mag is quite alot

[south spindle]

Ping is the easy option, Weap'Spec' sits in kinda the middle and Marksman's is the harder one

[forest scaffold]

like

as in

each magazine is 12% of the total ammo pool?

[wary galleon]

yes

[forest scaffold]

That's

Normal?

Look at the graia Brauto

75 ammo in a mag

[forest scaffold]

750 reserves

[south spindle]

Btw Puri, i found some cool swap-tech last night

For Combat Shotgun

[forest scaffold]

80% ammo graia brauto is 10% per magazine

[wary galleon]

i know the bless is shite but im not using this one

[south spindle]

FF stacks remain after swapping and swapping back again if they're still in the duration frame, with Chainsword, ofc it swings super fast so you can re-proc Weap'Spec' with no issue, and continue stacking FF, also, it would appear Shred stacks fully remain on swap, YTB if they actually do anything, but they're shown as active when swapping to ranged

FF doesnt show stacks with melee out, however when you swap back to the gun they pop up at whatever count you had prior to the first swap

[forest scaffold]

DumDum+Headhunter

is the ideal blessing combo on Recon Lasgun

[wary galleon]

im just thinking for like the infantry gun its only 8%

[forest scaffold]

and the mk7a is the best recon lasgun

the mk6 and mk2 are unmitigated dogshit now

[wary galleon]

the builds are better suited for las, but the guns are just way to hungry

[forest scaffold]

The mk7a is actually just "Okay"

[forest scaffold]

Pace yourself

and also

watch my video

You can absolutely obliterate elites and specials with minimal ammo cost

And the recon lasguns have zero recoil

so headshots aren't hard to hit

Like, yes.

If you're comparing to colomnus IAG

or helbores

they're not amazing.

[wary galleon]

yea i see what you mean, the 7a is the best in terms of dmg output

[forest scaffold]

But the argument is for nerfing shit to the recon lasgun's level

not buffing the recon lasgun up

player's are WAY too powerful right now, and its a two-fold issue.

Guns are just blatantly overpowered

Talent trees are just blatantly overpowered.

And buffing weapons that are just "good" up to "OP" isn't the correct move.

[forest scaffold]

Now that I'm done ranting

[wary galleon]

hahah thats okay

[forest scaffold]

Interesting tech.

I was aware of blessings staying between swaps.

I just never thought to try and maximize that with swappy swappy vet.

[south spindle]

Ye thats it, its actually kinda worth doing with Shotgun because on a melee build you're in the optimal range anyway

Manstopper/FF goes fucking hard on a swap build

[forest scaffold]

I don't have any shotguns on my vet though.

AND IM POOR FATSHARK

[south spindle]

Its demanding to play aswell which makes it much more fun

[forest scaffold]

BUT OH LOOK

[wary galleon]

i use this mostly, and in pinch i can get some snipers long away with executioner stance without too much trouble. The ammo efficieny on this with my build, on an auric maelstrom map is absolutely insane

[forest scaffold]

MY ZEALOT HAS ALL THREE

WHY CANT I USE THEM FATSHARK

FATSHARK LET ME USE CROSS CLASS WEAPONS ON DIFFERENT CHARACTERS PLEASE

[south spindle]

Shared weapon inventories would be such a good QoL change

[wary galleon]

for real, i got the most insane devil claw sword roll, but its on my psyker ;.;

[forest scaffold]

Its the one aspect of crafting that feels blatantly anti-player.

The rest of it just feels like bad game design.

But not intentional in any way.

[south spindle]

Well.... most of it does in all honesty

[wary galleon]

yea you are properly right. ima try testing out the MK7a recon. been a while since i tried it out.

[south spindle]

SEVEN layers of RNG..

[forest scaffold]

But locking shit to characters just feels extremely intentional.

[wary galleon]

aw man i dont wanna feel the pain of character locked wallets

again

[forest scaffold]

Yeah, its my biggest complaint with people shitting on the mk7a recon lasgun.

Its just "good"

That's it.

Acceptable ammo economy, acceptable dps.

Acceptable interactions with vet's tree.

[wary galleon]

my rambo brain wants to shoot everything all the time. makes it harder to use xD

with the braced autoguns i can do that pretty well

[forest scaffold]

Yeah, its a gun that can only do one role.

Elites and specials

with the odd shooter here and there

Where most other guns let you just kinda

braindead mouse 1 think later

[wary galleon]

i click lmb. neuron activated

[forest scaffold]

and the ammo economy is good enough that you're not overtly punished for it. Survivalist makes this even less of an issue.

[crude wind]

the OPness is from stats and the trees, and broken mechanics

[south spindle]

OPness lel

[crude wind]

😉

[south spindle]

Thats what she said

[wary galleon]

yea, until we get a hotshot, this is as close as i can get to my desired playstyle though

with the vet atleast

pew pew

[forest scaffold]

This is the tree I use with recon lasgun Omar

for your perusal

I'd uh

suggest a combat axe as your melee

You need something that can deal with hyper density.

I run around with shovel because I hate myself, but its notably slow at dealing with hyper density melee groups.

And I'm tired of power sword.

Facerolling matches with 900k melee damage is fucking boring

[languid terrace]

Probably the opposite of mobile infantry.

[forest scaffold]

lmao

Random factoid from puri's life. I put this together between today and yesterday

Very cool. When you move it, the pistons in the engine move up and down

And it has opening doors/adjustable side view mirrors/opening hood

and steerable wheels, as you can see in the picture

[wary galleon]

ah thanks for dat.

I actually prefere the new shovel over some of the old weapons except the vanilla chainsword since its good for hordeclear. The new shovel is very good with dealing with those bad boy ragers or chrushers if they are in my face, but horde is toned down for it. Hence the lmb on the guns :p

Interesting build since i dont even use marksman focus at all.

[forest scaffold]

Yeah, sleeper fact.

Recon lasguns have truly good finesse modifiers.

They're not "one shot ragers" amazing or anything

but the finesse buffs from the keystone are really solid for dealing with large groups of ranged enemies

[south spindle]

Intersting, i would have gone keystoneless an taken Onslaught personally given Recons have a good RoF

[forest scaffold]

Onslaught really only changes your TTK on crushers

and I guess bosses

[wary galleon]

where do you see this finess bonus?

[forest scaffold]

but please don't shoot bosses with recon lasguns

[south spindle]

Marksman's

[wary galleon]

ah yea thats just waste of ammo

[forest scaffold]

By shooting people in the head in the meatgrinder

[south spindle]

I would just to stack a bunch of Infernus DoTs an then swap to melee tbh

[wary galleon]

oh i thought you meant the weapon itself, mb

[forest scaffold]

No

finesse modifiers are hidden

for some fucked reason

[forest scaffold]

That's totally reasonable.

[plucky agate]

When you wanted an axe, but you got a club

[forest scaffold]

But I'm of the opinion that Dum Dum+Headhunter is the "meta" choice on Recon Lasguns

With headhunter+infernus being acceptable

[nimble sentinel]

axe but it's a guitar

[wide vortex]

im gonna go feral trying to get the no melee penance
all is going well and then a single groaner somehow sneaks up on me and smacks me

[forest scaffold]

this is my recon lasgun btw

I need to swap unarmored to maniac

but other than that

about as good as its gonna get

[forest scaffold]

This was for pre patch 13 breakpoints

[fresh mango]

you can steal my chainaxe all you want

[forest scaffold]

you could two shot dreg stalkers on a headshot

with UA

[jade notch]

Is it because Dum Dum is bugged and doesn't need Close Range kills to work? Or even if that was fixed?

[wary galleon]

1 mag into a plague is not THAT bad though executioner stand

[wary galleon]

nice, will steal those blessings.

also damn that modifiers

[versed merlin]

ok. after playing with helbore a bit, i think i can see how marksman focus can shine here. so im assuming that at that moment you're charging up your shots and picking elites and specials off the map is when you're looking to get those stacks going. but during hordes, yeah sucks, just throw a grenade at them and maybe stealth it if you can afford idk. but in general, is this how the playstyle is supposed to be with that keystone?

[wary galleon]

[forest scaffold]

12.5 meters is "close range" for the recon lasgun

and I tend to play somewhat aggressively on vet

Not to mention trappers/flamers

who are almost always within that range

[wide anvil]

Basically pop heads and get rewarded for popping more heads with your gun

[crude wind]

Dumdum stacks at any range but you only get damage bonus at close range

[wary galleon]

its very risk/reward i would say. the longer you stay still and can be able to get those stacks up. and with example the helbore mk3 you can just absolute demolish everything in 1 shot

[wide anvil]

So yeah

[wary galleon]

its like the darktide equivelant of a baretta 50 cal sniper

or anti tank rifle

[wide anvil]

You're a godsend to your teammates when you pick off every Elite and Special annoying the shit out of them but you're also vulnerable asf doing it

[wary galleon]

i see vets dont do that very often

[umbral garnet]

If I actually want to play melee instead of just pressing a button and mowing down hordes I go my knife or Devil's Claw 4

[wary galleon]

pretty annoying when play psyker or anything else and have to deal with the horde

[versed merlin]

yeah can be rough without a clutch ogryn playing around me and a psyker with the shield to make me feel safe even tho its prob not doing anything

[fresh mango]

does power sword mk matter?

[south spindle]

Anyone know what the mod is called what lets you have more than 5 builds?

[forest scaffold]

I use the old chainaxe

[wary galleon]

its OP because of the powercycler blessing?

[versed merlin]

but that's how i see the way to play with this kind of weapon

[forest scaffold]

because its got acceptable damage

but you get gigapunished if you fuck up positioning

[umbral garnet]

I see, I see. I heard they feel pretty good now.

[forest scaffold]

for most of it

I dunno about that

you're forced to interact with heavy attacks on the mk4

That's the only way to really use it

light attacks on ragers/crushers

but only one or two

beyond that, shoot em

[umbral garnet]

Mk3 is literally just "Press special" "Three swings" "Press special" "Three swings"

You just melt shit.

[forest scaffold]

mk6 power sword example scoreboard

this shit just isn't okay

at all

[umbral garnet]

Fucking hell

[wary galleon]

hmm wish i had those damn blessings

its the only thing i have a lack of

[umbral garnet]

Literally a 200k damage lead flat

[forest scaffold]

Kor is my buddy

we were grouped

and he was using my Glugger build

which is capable of doing the damage I did on vet

[fresh mango]

if only power cycler wasnt rare as shit

[forest scaffold]

and I was outpacing him in melee

this is my power sword

[south spindle]

Powersword doesnt even feel rewarding to play ngl

[forest scaffold]

You literally just faceroll the whole match

[wary galleon]

mfw i never get that GODDAMN BLESSING ON ROLLS

[forest scaffold]

its the most unengaging shit I've ever experienced

[forest scaffold]

Bro

I have 1550 hours

don't stress

[south spindle]

It really is boring as fuck

[umbral garnet]

You don't even have to fucking dodge

[forest scaffold]

You'll get em eventually

[wary galleon]

i will stress out in the name of the emperor

[forest scaffold]

🙏

[versed merlin]

how much plasteel is it usually spent to get a power cycler? doesnt matter if its pc3 or 4 i just want to know if im really that unlucky mf or my game is actually bugged and not giving me pc at all

[umbral garnet]

Just wam bam thank you ma'am cleared an entire horde with 3 swings man

[wary galleon]

my anuyrism will be holy and i die in duty on the latrine

[forest scaffold]

blessings have drop rates

[versed merlin]

cuz i've thrown away more than 20k already

[forest scaffold]

power cycler is the rarest blessing in the game

[versed merlin]

fml

[forest scaffold]

in the realm of 0.004%

for tier 4

[versed merlin]

honestly

might as well get the other 2 character slots i have to get a vet going and *pray * for a pc3 to drop on melk

[forest scaffold]

this is my old pre patch 13 power sword

Still competitive with brutal momentum

which is the real problem with power sword

[wary galleon]

do you use the mod buy until rating?

curious

[forest scaffold]

No lmao

I just save up 700k gold

spam buy

sell all the trash

[wary galleon]

why not use the mod?

[forest scaffold]

this is why

[distant idol]

My new Heavy Las feels good damage wise but even with the stabilty, the acc goes out the f'in window when you fire more then two shots at a time 😦

[forest scaffold]

dump stats

[south spindle]

BM is just a problem full stop

How that shit got greenlit i will never understand

[wary galleon]

hmm yea i guess it dont account for the stats you want, but just overall rating

[forest scaffold]

same here, more acceptable stat rolls even if they're not perfect

[umbral garnet]

I use this little lad for horde clearing in my support builds (when I actually want to press more than 2 buttons)

Still trying to get RAMPAGE 4

FUCKING GRGAHAHH

[forest scaffold]

Buy until rating doesn't care about dump stats

or stat distribution

it only keeps the weapons that you set at a rating

[wary galleon]

ngl that sword, with cleave blessing is actually quite good

i use that on my zealot and it can just rip up hordes

plus the parry is fun

[umbral garnet]

Exactly. I just want rampage to RIP THEM UP EVEN MORE

[forest scaffold]

oh yeah, this is my new pride and joy

new chainsword is so pog

the attack animations are so good

[wary galleon]

uuh i got the same build

[buoyant mica]

has anyone got a good columbus auto gun build they can send me?

[wary galleon]

sure just quite my game but ill boot it up

i got a good one

[buoyant mica]

thanks been struggling to find a decent one

[umbral garnet]

Speaking of Columnus

Love this thing

Trying to get other blessings though

But not getting the ones I want.

The fire rate on this thing with Weapons Specialist is bonkers

[wary galleon]

you want the braced?

thats my usual

[buoyant mica]

sure

[wary galleon]

the speedload is pretty good considering if the horde is in your face, the faster reload will be very handy, and if they are far away then it dont matter that much so it evens out

[umbral garnet]

Been trying for Dumdum and Stripped down personally.

But keep getting Tier 2s

I wanna DIE

[wary galleon]

😔

[umbral garnet]

And I have not gotten a single rampage blessing above tier 2

Please, RNG

Please.

[orchid condor]

Quickplay exp is higher than book exp? Im thinking of how to grind lvl faster

[crude wind]

QP probs the best bet

[pastel geode]

Quick play can also randomly give you the book obj which would also apply the quickplay bonus to book exp

[vital phoenix]

So, there was a short showcase of the agrippina revol killing bosses in 1 mag. Was that staged or am I missing smth? With buffs stacked and crit hs, mine does like 1% a shot

[pastel geode]

Very specific builds from my understanding

[crude wind]

You can do it but it's more a "look at what I can do to this stationary monster in the psykhanium'

[vital phoenix]

Huh, i´m guessing left tree full stacked smth then ?

[crude wind]

Also old Volver could do it too

[pastel geode]

I prefer to trust in the wall of lead my columnus gun spews out

[vital phoenix]

right, thanks. i wouldnt care about specific builds, but mine hits likea wet noodle against bosses, so.. But yeah, thanks

[vital phoenix]

if i could roll a decent one...

[crude wind]

Any interest in here for a thread similar to the "builds for shout boys" one that's going in Zealot chat?

[pastel geode]

Imo the new revolver seems more practical for quickly deleting a problem on a melee heavy loadout

[versed merlin]

has anyone been through this ui bug before?

[pastel geode]

I wish we had a vet version of the ogrynomicon so sure

[versed merlin]

its pretty annoying and idk how to effectively get rid of it

[vital phoenix]

i tried melee specialist, but it didnt feel great. If u have a build idea, i´d love on, but i think i´ll go back to middle tree

[eternal sable]

69 again ez

wish u can lock levels

i will at 969

[pastel geode]

Middle with a side of left is what I mainly run

[patent valley]

lock at 6969

[eternal sable]

yeah ill just play this game for 5000 more consectuive hours 😭

[vital phoenix]

tried this last run

[patent valley]

[vital phoenix]

basically stacked crit chance, but meh...

[pastel geode]

I’ll need a minute to boot the game to screenshot mine

I also hope rogue trader will highlight to them the weapon variety that could be achieved

I want that M40 autogun in darktide

[pastel geode]

This is what I run

[jade notch]

Ahhh, I thought it was 8m. Fair enough.

[forest scaffold]

It changes based on the weapon

"Close Range" is weapon dependent

uh

things that proc on "close range kill" is 8 meters

None of it makes sense, its all bad, and Fatshark hasn't done much to fix it in the last year.

[jade notch]

We're here anyway, so I might as well brush up on it. Thanks. 😅

[fresh mango]

sometimes the patience pays off

[south spindle]

Ngl, the concept of close damage is just asinine outside of talents, just make them damage

No point in limiting it to 8/12m

Its just weird and highly counter intuitive

[forest scaffold]

also

It seems they changed the damage falloff on recon lasguns

well, the mk7a at least

if dt.wartide is anything to go by

Its not nearly as aggressive as it used to be

[cosmic portal]

is Exhilirating Takedown still bugged?

[fresh mango]

it feels the most counter intuitive when youre trying to capitalize on that close range damage and then wow suddenly the enemy is inmelee and dont have enough bullets

[forest scaffold]

Nope

It got patched in carnival pt2

Its now 10% damage reduction per stack

instead of 10% more damage taken

[pastel geode]

How's the lawbringer shotty holding up compared to the other two right now?

[forest scaffold]

"succinctly mediocre"

not bad

not great

[cosmic portal]

I see Marksman's Focus is still trash

[forest scaffold]

It just an okay all rounder

[south spindle]

Very strong with Manstopper/Flechette on a swap build, very meh otherwise

[forest scaffold]

Its got the best finesse modifiers of all the shotguns

[south spindle]

Nope, its the highest ranged damage keystone, by a mile

[forest scaffold]

for some funny crit stuff

if you wanna go that route

No Respite/Scattershot

[fresh mango]

Im loving MF with my helbore tbh

[forest scaffold]

swap build

[cosmic portal]

do you still have to crabwalk it?

[south spindle]

Personally i rate Manstopper/FF on Kantreal as far as shotguns go

[south spindle]

No, you need to be accurate

[cosmic portal]

https://tenor.com/view/gary-tay-you-so-funny-pointing-gif-11785707

[south spindle]

This bullshit about you needing to stand still needs to stop being perpetuated

[forest scaffold]

uh

[south spindle]

Coz its bogus as fuck

[cosmic portal]

no it doesn't, lol, it's literally part of the ability

[forest scaffold]

I'll hop in on this halfway

I'm not really a huge slouch when it comes to aiming

but I'd put myself way closer to average

[cosmic portal]

"bogus"

[forest scaffold]

my skill is game sense

[fresh mango]

man if only there was a way to get around the not moving part

[south spindle]

If you're accurate, you have stacks all the time, you dont need to stand still

[fresh mango]

if only

[forest scaffold]

And I can maintain about 3 stacks

consistently

So its a keystone that ABSOLUTELY needs to be changed

to be more approachable to average players

Like, yes.

If you're good

its a winmore keystone

[south spindle]

Only 3? I have a lot more than that consistently an my aim isnt spectacular

[forest scaffold]

and that's the problem with it

its a winmore keystone

If you're already good enough to hit headshots

you don't need it

[south spindle]

Its 5 headshot kills to cap out on the 15 stack node, thats like, absolutely fucking trivial

[crude wind]

Run camouflage

I am always at 9-10 stacks

[forest scaffold]

Uh

I play like a crackhead on veteran

not in any intelligent way

but I move way too much

[fresh mango]

I think an average player is able to get enough accidental headshots to get value out of it

[forest scaffold]

Which really shits on stack gains

[south spindle]

Same mate

[forest scaffold]

You do need to balance movement+shooting

to maximize the efficiency of it

[south spindle]

Its really not challenging to keep up stacks

[forest scaffold]

but yes, the whole "crab walk or its bad"

is an insane take

[cosmic portal]

i'm not against "git gud" but only if everyone needs to git gud. meanwhile Zealot keystones are like "stub your toe and shit in front of you gets deleted"

[south spindle]

No, you dont need to crab walk

[forest scaffold]

But I get where average players are coming from.

Its a keystone with a way too high skill floor

and that's objectively a problem

[crude wind]

Same with exec stance now

[south spindle]

I dont agree, not everything should be braindead

[crude wind]

High skill floor stuff suffers in current meta

[forest scaffold]

It doesn't need to be braindead

But like

why grab it

when you can grab ping

[crude wind]

Especially if it's not S tier

[forest scaffold]

and get the same amount of damage

[crude wind]

Cause it's fun

[forest scaffold]

with half the effort

[south spindle]

Its like people saying Boltgun is bad because you have to hit heads with it to get the most out of it, when in actuality, its one of the strongest weapons in the game currently

[crude wind]

And a different tree

[forest scaffold]

Achlys Stubber at the top of the mountain watching the bolter climb up

[crude wind]

I have never understood why people only want to play one build in this game

[south spindle]

Thats not saying much given that Ogryn is horrendously broken at the moment and isnt a reasonable bar to compare anything else to until its fixed

[forest scaffold]

I mean, it was a joke

Not to be taken seriously

Revolver and plasma gun are standing right there next to achlys

[south spindle]

Hard to tell over texty chat sometimes, myb

Revolver less so at the moment, but Plasma certainly

[vital bobcat]

people keep getting caught up on the movement part of marksman's focus

it's funny

[forest scaffold]

uh

you lose one stack for moving 2 meters

And the average player isn't exactly hitting headshots

fuck, even I'm not

[vital bobcat]

its not the playstyle for you then and thats ok

[rugged goblet]

Gotta pick a weapon that doesn't do shit without headshots

[forest scaffold]

Right, but the talent trees should realistically be built to serve the most amount of players possible

[fresh mango]

Id hit more headshots if the iron sights on most guns didnt feel awful to use

[forest scaffold]

That doesn't mean they need to be braindead

But the skill floor needs to be fairly similar between all keystones

[vital bobcat]

i feel like dragging your cursor across a pox horde at head level for a second is pretty easy though

[forest scaffold]

Oh

I straight up don't shoot horde enemies

unless I'm playing ogryn, or using plasma gun

[vital bobcat]

easy way to get some free stacks right there

[restive island]

Weapon customization mod 👍

[forest scaffold]

every now and again to proc swap for my melee attack speed

[fresh mango]

Is it updated to work with the new patch?

[forest scaffold]

weapon customization mod eats your actual cosmetics

I cannot suggest it

[fresh mango]

Cause I used the shit out of that JUST for that one purpose

[forest scaffold]

It won't show the aquila store weapon skins for some reason

[restive island]

It's been updated multiple times since then

[forest scaffold]

if you don't have a customized with mod weapon but do have an aquila skin equipped

[fresh mango]

I dont buy the aquillas skins so

[forest scaffold]

I have a few

[fresh mango]

Feel like a waste

[forest scaffold]

not nearly as much as say Okri or Kerfus

[fresh mango]

Most look meh

[forest scaffold]

but I have a few

[south spindle]

It does, you just gotta add the parts back on

[forest scaffold]

Ah, true.

It should work server side

was just weird that it didn't for me

So I just removed it for now

wait for grasman to patch it again

[south spindle]

Its not hard to do, but its totally worth the minor inconvenience to have actual sights on your weapon

[forest scaffold]

nbd

Eh

[south spindle]

Update up now

[forest scaffold]

I just miss flashlights tbh

that's it

[south spindle]

I literally updated both earlier

[forest scaffold]

getting lights out QP

[forest scaffold]

on my stubber

without flashlights is pain

[fresh mango]

flash light and proper sights my beloved

[south spindle]

Also can make sick lookin stuff like this

[finite imp]

Speak fo yoself FOO

[fresh mango]

everything else is a bonus

[finite imp]

My brother in arms wtf is that

[fresh mango]

like those cursed horrors

[south spindle]

That is a shotgun sir

[forest scaffold]

I cracked finally and picked up these two

Green stubber specifically

and black bullgryn armor

[finite imp]

Ah yes a shotgun that fires 5.56 mm slugs

[south spindle]

Lel, i dont think any of the rifles shoot a caliber that small ngl

Minimum is like .308

[forest scaffold]

Uh

No

I think GW starts at 7.62x39

[restive island]

The shotgun looks like it has a AK barrel btw

[forest scaffold]

and goes up from there

for "stubbers"

[rugged goblet]

Let's make a revolver looking helbore with shovel as bayonet

[south spindle]

Yes, thats the point

[forest scaffold]

IE: Any jacketed and shelled ammunition

so basically everyone that isn't using a lasgun is using a Space-AK or M2 Browning

or bolter

[finite imp]

Easily googled. 8.25mm

[south spindle]

Or if you want it to get really offensive

[restive island]

Give me a space lever action or musket

[finite imp]

Bro duct taped gun parts together. Made an ork gun

[rugged goblet]

Plz stop

[restive island]

MORE DAKKA

[rugged goblet]

Red wire so the bullets go faster

[south spindle]

https://tenor.com/view/lord-of-the-rings-no-nope-nah-never-gif-16208499

It is a Kantreal afterall

[restive island]

Shoots dragon breath

[cosmic portal]

it's not about the playstyle. it's about how difficult it is to play compared to other keystones. none of the other keystones of other classes are this gymnastical

[south spindle]

Depends, weap'spec' has some pretty crazy hoops you can jump through with it

[cosmic portal]

can, not have to

[finite imp]

Wanna know what the caliber for the heavy bolter is

1

[south spindle]

No, but to get the most out of it, you really do

[sudden dome]

It's probably .25 guage

[south spindle]

For example, FF blessing retains its stacks for the full duration when swapping weapon, so you can loop melee and shotgun swaps, keep stacking the bonus and have massive gains by doing so between that blessing, Manstopper and guaranteed crits

[restive island]

When do we get new ammo types for bolter

[finite imp]

Swap barrage for hand cannon
Range crit to maniac?

Or flak

[cosmic portal]

aint that the other Veteran keystone? it's bullshit as well

[south spindle]

Just because something is hard to get the most out of doesnt mean its bullshit, it means you have a crippling skill issue

[flint lake]

M’sF is more about good positioning and headshots than stationary behavior. Even if you aren’t that accurate, it’s easy to quickly build stacks with camouflage. Just gotta find a good angle that’ll keep you out of melee and you’ll be golden.

[untold mulch]

The amount of time I waste trying to line up headshots is time I could have body shot and kill the threat faster while keeping attention for situational awareness

A me case, but basically, I agreed is a Keystone that is tailored too much into a specific type of player

[cosmic portal]

give the crippling to other classes and i wont mind, then it's just the nature of the game. but when 3 of the classes are casual keystones, and the vet is "you must learn these dance routines to have a passable time" then yeah, it's a problem

[untold mulch]

Headshot should be rewarded, but not everything in that keystone

[south spindle]

Vet went from lowest barrier to entry to highest, i think thats a good thing

[cosmic portal]

why

what is wrong with you

[south spindle]

Because shooty normal gun man

It also has access to the most powerful weapons in the game though, so if you're struggling, just play PSword and Plasma

[rugged goblet]

Marksman's Focus

[cosmic portal]

https://tenor.com/view/bad-opinion-opinion-gif-22134945

[vital bobcat]

idk, i dont find it too gymnastical when you consider the strengths of it imo. 1 headshot kill on a pox walker and you immediately get a huge 22% finesse power boost

stand still for a sec and you get free stacks with the modifier

[south spindle]

Ahhh yes, new player doesnt like skill floors therefor other people opinions are trash... noted

[cosmic portal]

have you considered the strength of other classes' keystones?

[untold mulch]

My Zealot having a permanent

[vital bobcat]

yea and they all have situational uses as well

[untold mulch]

+25% crit just by doing his job

[south spindle]

Try play Martydom with no game knowledge lol, you'll get rekt

[flint lake]

The other class keystones are pretty brain dead, true. But the potential damage from M’sF is way way higher.

[cosmic portal]

but the barrier to get equal utility is inane

[south spindle]

Its FIVE headshot kills to max the 15 stack node

Thats not hard

You can do that in a single shot with some weapons

[cosmic portal]

good for you

[rugged goblet]

Does it count a single blast with a shotgun?

[south spindle]

Yep, if the round hits multiple targets due to cleave, you get more stacks

[untold mulch]

I've said before

That keystone feels like they first designed the buff and worked backwards to balance the buff

[south spindle]

See; Shotguns, Revolver, Plasma, Boltgun, maybe even Hellbore

Hell you could dump 10 rounds into poxwalker horde with Recon Las an have stack cap instantly

[rugged goblet]

Gotta give that a go, I'm usually just using it with Helbore or Vraks7

[finite imp]

Welcome brother

[south spindle]

Yeah once you pick it up an start playing with it you'll quickly realise a lot of people mald about it because its not always on giving max bonus

[finite imp]

I see you do not wish to think during gameplay. Have you considered easier classes like the ogryn? Or the zealot?

I won't deny the fact vet is a hard class to play but

That's why we're here

[cosmic portal]

that's why you're here, and only since the patch

[south spindle]

indeed

[cosmic portal]

on the discord, lol

[flint lake]

Not really, even if your aim is poor M’sF rewards good positioning as much as headshots if you take camouflage.

[finite imp]

Brother I have been here since release

[rugged goblet]

Yeah, I messed around with it in meat grinder after the update and really liked it. The stacks don't go down that fast and you don't have to have full stacks.

[cosmic portal]

i meant in terms of the vet being hard to play

[south spindle]

Yeah it do be like that, really fuckin strong skill, one of the highest DPS potential Keystones in the game

[finite imp]

Literally have only played vet the entire time

[cosmic portal]

not sure what you mean by the vet being a hard class to play before the patch then

[flint lake]

Clicking heads is pretty universal

[cosmic portal]

if that's what you're here for

lol

[rugged goblet]

I suppose it could fall off in high intensity auric missions where you don't have the pleasure of standing around, but I stick to regular damnation

[finite imp]

Ah but it is now though yes?

It meets your criteria for being hard to play?

[south spindle]

Before the overhaul it was the easiest to play because always on Ult and basically godmode because Unwavering

[cosmic portal]

and it's shit, lol. level the barrier needed with the other classes

[south spindle]

And thusly, it was boring

[finite imp]

My opinion of the class hasn't changed. It hasn't gotten harder to play. It's more fun now

[cosmic portal]

mind you, in either direction. either force everyone to learn how to waltz or allow everyone to have fun.

[finite imp]

Clicking heads is cool and all

But if I wanted that I'd go play cod

[cosmic portal]

good for you

[finite imp]

Good for you as well

[south spindle]

Its literally profit from playing how you should play. If you're playing a ranged class and refusing to shoot at heads, i hate to tell you, but you're doing it wrong lol

[vital bobcat]

in auric5s theres usually always something to shoot so you can get and maintain stacks easily

unless youre running a hellbore or something then yea, it might be a little more difficult

[cosmic portal]

this is like when in For Honor when Centurion was released and people were just spamming "just dodge lol" at everyone who complained that entering cutscene mode every fight wasn't fun

[finite imp]

That game was ass

[cosmic portal]

not the point

[south spindle]

Its not fun having your accuracy and skill rewarded? Idk what to even say to that

Thats lunacy

[finite imp]

Bro the vet has undergone more class scrutiny and balancing than any other class by a long shot

[untold mulch]

I disagree with that statement, calling doing it wrong just because you ain't actively aiming at heads.

Unless you using markssman

[finite imp]

It's not the rest of us that are the issue I assure you

[untold mulch]

in that case, by design yeah, though I personally dislike it

[cosmic portal]

"rest of us" like three people, compared to all the posts complaining about it and accompanying upvotes and such

[finite imp]

I assure you it's not just 3 people lmao

[cosmic portal]

hyperbole

[finite imp]

But if youre going to resort to ratio then idk what to tell you

[forest scaffold]

I think its fair to say that requiring all headshots is bad keystone design.

I think its fair to say that not all keystones should not be totally braindead faceroll easy to use.

[cosmic portal]

no, let's resort to what the 1%ers think, that's going well for games that have eSports, init

[forest scaffold]

There's a middle ground here somewhere that hits the most amount of players.

That will, inevitably, upset people good enough to use the one we have now.

But uh

Small minority so fuck it

[gusty bison]

Id say a headshot every 3s isnt that hard

[finite imp]

That argument doesn't work here either because we've had to actively fight off those 1 %ers lmao

[gusty bison]

Gun dependent of course

[terse idol]

Well the point is creating variety isn't it?
Close range damage constitutes weapons that are played at a certain range
Now dumdum as far as I can tell is glitched

[finite imp]

It could have been a LOT worse

[terse idol]

But flat weapon damage increase is just boring

[south spindle]

It is glitched yeah, though kinda but not really, the damage is only applied in close range, you can stack it at any range

[snow pendant]

is it a bad idea if is just change to land headshot instead of headshot kill, i think thats fair

[terse idol]

Weird

[forest scaffold]

Well, weakspot hits currently give you one stack

[untold mulch]

Agreed

[terse idol]

Still imo I think it's alright

[forest scaffold]

so you can kind of braindead magdump a horde with a shotgun or brauto

and get all 15 stacks immediately

[finite imp]

Now there's a novel idea. What about just weak point HITS

[forest scaffold]

Sorry

They let you move without dropping stacks for 1 second

With a weakspot kill being 3 stacks

So still

[untold mulch]

It doesn't though? only kills give you stacks, hits keeps the stack for a sec

Which makes funny af to me that the MARKSMAN is best used with magdump weapons

[forest scaffold]

braindead magdump

and you get away with moving

which uh

[terse idol]

I mean, yes this is why we run camouflage

[snow pendant]

yeah i just think weapon without pen like that could use the change to headshot hits instead of kill

[finite imp]

I do this with my new graia bullet hose and keep the stacks pr much the entire game

[south spindle]

The only way to make that workable is to drop stacks to one per and no getting 3 stacks, so it would actually make it significantly harder for the average player to use

[forest scaffold]

Is completely antithetical to the keystone

[terse idol]

And not the extra stacks

[forest scaffold]

so I have no fucking idea

the whole thing is designed super poorly

and makes zero sense

[south spindle]

If they wanted to make it easier, increase the time before stacks drop

[fossil basalt]

I mean, you can use a magdump weapon on a marksman build, if you like burning through ammo

[finite imp]

Hmmm

[south spindle]

But that has the side effect of making good players really OP vs average players

[finite imp]

It's not that I think the vet is perfect mind you it's far from

I'm always open to new ideas to improving it

[vital bobcat]

i would say that makes it versatile and useable by lots of different gameplay styles

[terse idol]

I just think the use case of generating stacks is tough, and having no defensive abilities does hurt it

[finite imp]

But I see these things as challenges tbh. The jank of the vet is endearing

[simple basalt]

i agree

[terse idol]

Hence why many builds iirc don't run the added stacks

For consistency

[vital bobcat]

[finite imp]

Imagine how much shit the other classes would be talking all the time non stop if our class was braindead

[fossil basalt]

Doesn't having even one stack give you an equivalent of Low Profile for threat reduction?

[south spindle]

Thats kinda the point of that whole tree, you exchange defensive properties to suck out as much damage as possible

[finite imp]

Call of duty this point and click that

[terse idol]

Does it?

[south spindle]

No

[terse idol]

Because it doesn't feel like it

[south spindle]

It does not

[fossil basalt]

Idk I read a few articles about it

[south spindle]

That was a bait post made by an actual mouthbreather

[finite imp]

Excellent

Bravo

[terse idol]

And saddly
The consistency isn't there

[finite imp]

Reminds me of the grenade tinkerer giving you stun immunity debaucle

Turns out it did give you stun immunity

[cosmic portal]

i find endearement in a lot of annoying things my friends rage at in other games, but when a game is meant to be a casual PvE horde shooter, and all other classes' keystones reflect that, and then the vet's keystones that were added late are nonsensically checklisty, that's not really endearing

[terse idol]

But like point to me in rhe skill that says it generates - threat

It doooesnt its pure damage

[finite imp]

You are free to lower the difficulty if you want a more casual experience

[south spindle]

That one was obvious. The way matey worded this, was that you gain 0.1 per stack, so at 10 stacks, you would be being totally ignored by all enemies, you can test that yourself, it does not happen

[cosmic portal]

that's not the point and you know, lmao

[terse idol]