veteran-class

[crude wind]

lol we have that in common then

[round jetty]

it was good before they gutted its magazine size 🥹

i just dont find it fun no more

[delicate moat]

another proot

[round jetty]

perhaps

[delicate estuary]

still no skin without shoes

shoes stinky

[foggy musk]

What perk should i change?

[round jetty]

crucian roulette ☹️

[foggy musk]

yeah obviously

but what perk

crucian roulette is a blessing not a perk

[round jetty]

im aware

[placid portal]

keep perk for now, you could choose to change carapace for maniac

Keeping flak does help vs flak ragers

& many more enemies

If you get handcannon blessing you can 2 tap headshot crushers & maybe maulers with crits

[foggy musk]

yeah i only have T3 hand cannon unfortunately

ive wasted well over 100k plasteel at this point trying to get T4

[placid portal]

it'll do

[foggy musk]

its ridiculous

Also

why am i still green

ive been on this server for ages at this point

[placid portal]

Duuunno

[crude wind]

why do I have 6 lawbringers

[placid portal]

Because Empra granted you to bear arms

Daily life of a Shovel Vet

1. Wake up at 0500HRS
2. Find a position to dig a Foxhole
3. Dig a Foxhole
4. Boot up darktide in the foxhole
5. Challenge every mutie charge and only use Shovel.
6. Leave game before team extract.
7. Repeat

[unreal bone]

I got a question about Sire Melk missions

I really dont think I revolver killed 360 scabs

Does it count EVERYONE's ranged kills?

To your contract

[unreal bone]

in one mission*

Especially cause I was on a zealot so I did even less shooting than normal.

[karmic musk]

Yes

[midnight mortar]

Yes.

Contract progress is squad-wide.

[unreal bone]

Oh

That's nice

Is it restricted to coherency radius?

Or if I'm dead will it still progress?

[placid portal]

I think it's just the team's total kills during mission, failing marks progress except missions regarding completing them

[languid escarp]

Melk will be lonely because I may have a job soon

[placid portal]

he's always yappin'

he'll have plenty company

[south spindle]

If you swap Unyeilding to Flak and play Marksman's with the 15 stack node, you can oneshot headshot everything except mutie and crusher

Thats very close to what i run on mine, with the only difference being not T4 blessings an no Flak perk on your roll there

[placid portal]

my impatient ass cannot stand still

[south spindle]

You dont need to

That Keystone hinges on accuracy, moving is just the means by which the stacks drop

The tooltip, still, weeks later, is confusing people about how that skill works

So long as you're getting headshots, you keep getting, and retaining your stacks

[placid portal]

Hm fair enough i dont really see how many stacks i build up bc i was too focused on gunning anything that is yellow or glowing green

[crude wind]

ah fair, I don't like the 15 stack node very much though, prefer the consistency from the autogain one

UY to Flak seems like a decent shout though. is 10% vs Elites used for any breakpoints on it?

[south spindle]

If you wanted to sacrifice Exhil, you could have both

[crude wind]

u can't, they're mutually exclusive sadly

one locks the other

[south spindle]

Ahh ok, i thought that was a different one what gets locked

[crude wind]

no sadly not, if only it was the terrible toughness regen one

lol

[placid portal]

Kinda sad that it does

[crude wind]

yeah

feels unnecessary but whatever

[placid portal]

Toughness regen on focus is so weird

[south spindle]

But yea you'd have to check on BP's. i ended up putting 10% elites on simply by virtue of wanting more BP's after making the build

[crude wind]

okay nice well i feel like I've heard 10% elites on bolter being a good for breakpoints

[south spindle]

It netted me Reaper an Mauler, so that was the reasoning

[crude wind]

but tbf with the patch very likely this week, I will probably hold fire until we have the new Vet tree

[south spindle]

I've heard whispers of a Boltgun buff, though i have no idea if its real or not

So that might change things substantially if so

[crude wind]

would be weird if there was

Crab reckons the Bolter is one of the highest damage guns in the game atm

[south spindle]

It is yeah

[placid portal]

It should be choosing

• Passively gaining Focus
• Change toughness recovery to damage res but lower value per(~1.5%) stack
  So you have a choice of passively gaining focus to gain benefit on 1st shot vs the benefit of being tankier for being good at headshoting

[crude wind]

stacking damage res is a really nice idea

[jade notch]

Unwavering Focus lives on in our hearts

[south spindle]

For it to benifit on only the first shot, would basically kill the keystone

[placid portal]

But 1.5% is imo kinda big for focus stacks

[south spindle]

It lives on in the trash can, where it belongs

https://tenor.com/view/filthy-frank-know-your-place-implicit-gif-26537479

[jade notch]

https://tenor.com/view/police-racoon-dust-bin-police-racoon-racoon-dustbin-dustbin-trash-racoon-gif-26093417

[crude wind]

BIN

[placid portal]

Ok maybe not first shot but to get early focus stacks buildup advantage

[south spindle]

The way it works now is great, i agree about toughness being better as DR, but the other aspects i would want to stay as is

[languid escarp]

I would even pay one talent point for ex stance to highlight just the weakspot

instead of whole body

[south spindle]

Its a keystone that actually rewards good play, which is a rare sight in the current trees

[placid portal]

It is possible without spending points, it is the faith of empra that guides your aim

[terse idol]

I would say it may get a little disorienting if you only saw little yellow blobs floating around

But, someone could mod it

[buoyant slate]

there's even a sorta similar effect in the taunt that ogryn does. it seems to center on heads

[placid portal]

well it highlights their upper torso so it might work

[unreal bone]

Man I sure do love 10 muties with gunners a daemonhost and a chaos spawn

all together.

https://tenor.com/view/filthy-frank-hang-suicide-gif-13398060

[cloud current]

i dont like dis

[hexed briar]

How important are finesse and shredder on chainswords?

[placid portal]

Finesse is really important in general bc it affects weakpoint/critical damage

[maiden trail]

Ok Ive been trying for days trying for the redacted mission to finish with no ammo and 90% accuracy, with the Zarona Mk IIa Quick draw Stub Revolver and missed 2 shots and not getting this penance.....is it bugged?

[hexed briar]

and shredder not so much? I know it's just for the special but i'm not sure how good the special actually is

[zealous wyvern]

executioners stance should have toughness reduction from shots by default without extra talents

[placid portal]

Special can kill muties with heavy attack

if I recall at best

[zealous wyvern]

it should also prevent flinching and speed up reload by 50%

[placid portal]

honestly it should just auto reload on activation tbh

[zealous wyvern]

that too

all of that

stupid weakest tree

[hexed briar]

getting the blue hitmarker from shooting armour counts as a miss i believe so might be that

[zealous wyvern]

unless you bring one of like 4 weapons

at most

[placid portal]

exe stance do be fun if you hate enemies that shoot

[zealous wyvern]

and infiltrate needs a fat damage boost

[placid portal]

Infiltrate bc I like dropping my resposibilities to my teammates

[zealous wyvern]

exe stance is especially fun when you have a bolter and the reload ends your exe stance unless you have both reload perks and just killed an elite

[maiden trail]

That is a terrible design if so , if you mean the Ogryn shields I didn't shoot them I bashed them with my chainsword till they dropped their shield long enough to pop their head off with my revolver

And if melee hit counts....that's even dumber of a design

[placid portal]

I prefer waiting them to open up with their melee and pop their skulls

[maiden trail]

With ranged I only had yellow and red marks besides the 2 shots I missed...I'm pretty sure 2 shots isn't more than 10%?

[forest maple]

fire frenzy or deathspitter here?

[maiden trail]

Which ones deathspitter again? Cause fire frenzy sounds good since the ballistic weapons are basically all close range weapons mostly

[sharp ember]

same difference innit

[bronze atlas]

Close range is close as hell these days

[forest maple]

6.5% power in close range after kill

[placid portal]

Hear me out.... Raking Fire

[terse idol]

Iirc shield Ogryn blocking works similar to well us blocking they use stamina
The "blue" hit means you didn't do damage

[placid portal]

[silent egret]

Can someone share with me a good beginner friendly build for Veteran?

[maiden trail]

I mean 6.5% vs 10% stacking X 5

[bronze atlas]

I think close range is like 3.5 meters? Maybe 2 ogryn melee ranges

[forest maple]

6.5% is power, not damage

[placid portal]

close range is so far 8ms range

[terse idol]

Iirc or very little at least if I remeber you can get a blue hit marker if you shoot a crusher with a gun that doesn't have good carapace penetration

[forest maple]

but yeah, must be about the same in general use

[terse idol]

So it deals minimum damage

[bronze atlas]

What level?

[maiden trail]

Does melee count towards that penance though? Because I didn't shoot their shields just their heads , I chainsword the shield to make them drop their gaurd then pop their heads

[placid portal]

IAGs without rending will have blue hit marks on body except heads

[silent egret]

I haven't started yet, but I'm still really new, so I'd just like a good starting point

[placid portal]

crits will deal like 100+ damage per hit

[placid portal]

Well I'd say you should try weapons you get from completing missions by playing

[maiden trail]

Lasguns aren't a bad way to start with

[terse idol]

Melee shouldn't
But that statement earlier could be right
Take a few friends be on the correct difficulty and use all your ammo earlier then just stick with melee

[maiden trail]

That's what I just did 😂 I missed just 2 shots , never shot an ogryn shield but meleed it and shot them in the head.

[sharp ember]

Start with Close Order Drill + Confirmed Kill as your early leveling talents, and go towards the Voice of Command ability replacement, it's the safest vet ultimate and very easy to use

[forest maple]

Gets hot 1 to 4 and unyielding to what here?

[maiden trail]

If melee counts towards the penance that's a TERRIBLE design because it's a range focused penance

[forest maple]

maniacs?

[bronze atlas]

The perks that boost survivability are good for starting on, the middle and right first tier perks and their right hand children. Spend some time getting comfortable with melee

[crude wind]

you might not need to change anythi g here apart from gets hot

[forest maple]

isnt unyielding kinda bad?

[crude wind]

if you do, it will be Unyielding to Unarmoured

[terse idol]

We did have a discussion on running unarmoured

[crude wind]

noper

[silent egret]

Thankfully, I'll have Ogryn and Zealot leveled before I start Veteran, so I ahve some practice with Melee

[crude wind]

UY makes your plasma a boss destroyer

[terse idol]

So you can one shot gunners

[crude wind]

there are certain rolls of plasma

where u don't need UA

[sharp ember]

yeah UY is pretty nice solely for burning bosses faster with less ammo

[crude wind]

just 10% elites

BUT

that is something you have to test

[forest maple]

i see

[crude wind]

because it's literally only god rolls

[bronze atlas]

Oh in that case most of the veteran perks are good and most of them are boring just do what sounds good

[terse idol]

You would need practically 80 damage

80 stopping power

[crude wind]

@forest maple take this bad boy into the Psykhanium with your chosen build

[terse idol]

That would be it

[crude wind]

test headshot vs unarmoured gunner

[terse idol]

The ideal is being able to one tap gunners with left click only

[crude wind]

79/79 works as well

[forest maple]

will do

[crude wind]

@forest maple also dude, i think its worth waiting for new patch before changing anything

it;s very likely this week

[forest maple]

why is that? we got any news?

[silent egret]

Admittedly, most of what I've been doing as Zealot is just running around every mission swinging at anything vaguely human shaped with a Chainsword

[crude wind]

just following the release pattern of last patch

they did the trailer teaser thing over the weekend

[forest maple]

you are expecting changes and or nerfs?

[crude wind]

then they released patch tues/wed (Can't remember)

[crude wind]

they said the tree is changing

[terse idol]

It might stay consistent, I felt like the Pgun was fairly balanced this path with a few outliers

[forest maple]

they did? for real?

[crude wind]

I've seen the new tree

[forest maple]

again?

[crude wind]

and I would wait

[sharp ember]

Longshot + Exe Stance is a really nice band-aid for getting 1shot breakpoints on unoptimized plasmas

[forest maple]

alright

[terse idol]

The tree shouldn't change how many guns function but waiting isn't a bad idea

[forest maple]

i hear you

[crude wind]

yes again, no one is happy with this one lol

just wanna make sure you avoid big sads with that awesome plasma

[sharp ember]

the speed at which update part 1 released scared me so bad

[terse idol]

I mean you already changed most of it

[placid portal]

true

[sharp ember]

from announcement to release

[forest maple]

i got another one to keep me company if anything goes wrong

[placid portal]

Fuckin patch 15 jumpscare

[terse idol]

You just need gets hot 4

[forest maple]

dunno which is better though

[crude wind]

the other thing that could happen

is they fix the plasma charge rate bug

[sharp ember]

emperor please be rid of it

[crude wind]

unlikely, but its a possibility

[terse idol]

If that happens CR dump

😌

[crude wind]

if that happens I have a second god rolled plasma ready to go

WINNERS STAY WINNING BABY

[placid portal]

🍹

time to wait for the new vet skill tree and see if I can actually split trees to invest into things I need

[crude wind]

its a lot better

[silent egret]

I probably already know the answer to this, but is build decent for a new Vet player to follow or nah? https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9a565016-bd70-4fe0-8c82-1080bc73412e/veteran-squad-leader

[crude wind]

Ditch Covering Fire

but otherwise yeah looks solid enough

Ditch covering fire and instead take the 10% melee node next to the 5% health node

[sharp ember]

yeah that's a 95% fine build

[terse idol]

Hmm you already saw it?

[crude wind]

yep

[terse idol]

Show the deets

[crude wind]

that would mean breaking the NDA I signed

[forest maple]

@crude wind i do not one-shot the UA or the flak gunners without a crit with this roll

[crude wind]

so that's a big no

[sharp ember]

[crude wind]

you got the 30% weakspot talent?

[terse idol]

How did you even get an early access to it?

[crude wind]

I am a play tester

[terse idol]

[forest maple]

ye

[crude wind]

and both 5% ranged damage?

[forest maple]

no wait, i do? wth

wait a bit

[sharp ember]

the inquisitor's officers select you for auric service

[forest maple]

1262 on the UA gunner

[crude wind]

you should be able to 1sh the FLak gunner with that gun and 10% elites no problem

the UA one might need UA

[forest maple]

the flak one dies one shot

[crude wind]

okay greta

great*

so definitely wait for next patch

[sharp ember]

got Longshot?

[crude wind]

because you might not need unarmoured once that drops

[forest maple]

yeah got both the 5% damage talents

got longshot aswell

[crude wind]

nice nice

[sharp ember]

damn not even max longshot

[forest maple]

i do 1176 on the flak gunner at really close range and it survives with a sliver

so thats sad

[south garnet]

Vets will once again reign supreme

[sharp ember]

I'm sitting pretty so long as my grenade "keystone" is intact

woe upon the rager mauler horde when i toss 5 grenades, 2 of which were from twinned nade

and get those grenades back when they bleed out

[gleaming adder]

Is it just me but I find rager hordes more in heresy than damnation?

[crude wind]

sad for now, we'll see how long that stays. what keystone u running btw?

[celest vine]

Update tomorrow?

[sharp ember]

the whims of the AI director are erratic, as it saw fit to plague my matches with 50% snipers and bulwarks

[crude wind]

i'm expecting the update this week, not sure what day

but based on previous trends

it should be this week

[karmic musk]

Next week tm

[crude wind]

XD

[celest vine]

It keeps it interesting at the very least

[sharp ember]

probably tuesday if similar to last patch

[south garnet]

I don't know but finding a rager horde while scouting is like a Christmas present, I always dive in and try to mop them up before anyone else shows up if I have the chance

[celest vine]

I wouldnt call an 8 crusher horde fun

But it’s interesting

[versed merlin]

its preferable than a rager pack imo

[south garnet]

8 crusher can be fun-ish I guess if you're equipped for it. Probably the most satisfying is they're tightly packed enough that a single surge voidstrike or a couple krak wipe them all

Revolver or PS work wonders too but still require some dancing

I prefer rager packs, especially when it's one of those 20+ patrols

[tardy plaza]

When they're in a straight line for the plas 😩

Nothing more satisfying than seeing <> killed Crusher like 10 times at once

[celest vine]

Frag bomb should one hit crushers

[south garnet]

On zealot, chastising right into the middle and just wilding into the middle and taking handfuls out each swing with a crit hsword is something else

[bleak bolt]

bleed taking a nerf prob didn't help frags

[south garnet]

For ragers not crushers. Do not attempt this with crushers lol

[round canopy]

is exhilarating takedown fixed yet?

[bitter turtle]

Yes

[south garnet]

Yes

[round canopy]

thanks

[acoustic wyvern]

ngl, the weapon customisation mod brings so much new life into the game

[south garnet]

Now imagine if FS had used those files to actually put weapon modding in the game like they were going to

[maiden trail]

Finally got that redacted for 90% accuracy and no ammo , I just lobbed more grenades after using ammo XD

[celest vine]

Bethesda does this actually

Player makes a mod? Maybe implemented in the next patch or game

[maiden trail]

Ppl did find a bigger ship class module when modding starfield , think it's parts from the quest ships of noteworthy ships maybe

[celest vine]

Fatshark and bethesda comparison is more applicable than you’d think

[celest vine]

Future content implemented early by modders

[maiden trail]

Haha I did say possible dlc would be spaceship housing XD

[celest vine]

A huge number of the mods for this game are “why the fuck is this not a feature” type things

True rank should have been a day 1 thing, same with scoreboard

[languid escarp]

is there any plan for modding support through steam?

[maiden trail]

For darktide? Would likely say no since they sell cosmetics in game

Hard to say for sure what they would allow for mods

[karmic musk]

Too bad there's no point making the bigger ships since there is no ship sim mechanics

[forest maple]

focus target

[karmic musk]

If you had one point to spare, would you go for Target Down! (+Toughness +Stamina per Focus Target stack) or Redirect Fire! (+Dmg per Focus Target stack for 10s), assuming base 5 stacks for Focus Target!

[maiden trail]

Haha would be interesting to see a space station like ship to dock your ship in , to be a home for space farers to live in and such XD

[tawny sparrow]

Lads, how do I top off this one?

[languid escarp]

what's with melee crit hit chance

[tawny sparrow]

that's what I rolled raw

[willow badger]

as someone who has only played vet, how does the difficulty of vet stack u with the other classes

[tawny sparrow]

I am guessing that's what I am axing, just want to know for what

[languid escarp]

vet is the easiest I feel

Ogryn is close but it takes time getting used to your large hitbox

[tawny sparrow]

Do I go for flak or maniacs on that power sword?

for perks

[umbral scaffold]

170h played and no t4 power cycler, is it normal?

[sharp ember]

such is the will of 100% rng systems

[umbral scaffold]

Change unarmored to flak

Boom god role

[karmic musk]

You could potentially never get it in your entire Darktide playtime, how about that?

[tawny sparrow]

Why that?

[umbral scaffold]

You do a lot alreayd to unarmored

Doing flak gives better with your energizer against those enemies easier

[mental parcel]

yea unarmoured isnt a great perk to have, flak is always the better option

flak and maniac is very good

[real sandal]

How does the Onlslaught perk work with shotguns? Is each pellet hit counting as a 'consecutive' hit?

[mental parcel]

no idea, never really touched them

[silent egret]

What's the difference between Flak and Carapace?

[trim hemlock]

No, as far as I can tell it’s not 1 pellet = 1 hit, although from one of the testers told me, hitting 1 pellet on different regions of the body (say, 1 hits chest and 1 hits left arm), it should apply brittleness multiple times for each unique region hit, if that interaction wasn’t patched between P13 and now.

[trim hemlock]

Flak and Carapace is two different armour types. Flak is resistant to some weapons that have no inherent penetrating capabilities, and Carapace is heavily resistant to most weapons’ regular attacks, period, because it applies heavy damage penalties to them.

This is a shallow explanation, though, but the idea is that different armour types make certain weapons more or less effective against them

[viral nacelle]

Enjoying the vraks7 a lot (didn’t play it last patch), feels like a garand

It and deadshot is just a nice combo

[trim hemlock]

This is an old resource, although still probably valid re: hit zones and their armour types:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkTide/s/z5FlfOdDjy

[viral nacelle]

Have krak nades for carapace and devil claw for horde clear, mostly use it for poppin the specials and whatnot

Mad respect to the power sword users but I hate the fucking thing

[gaunt delta]

Agreed, vraks7 HHAG feels real good

Feels like they swapped the 5.56 for the 7.62 version

[viral nacelle]

With deadshot it puts down crushers very nicely with headshots

[radiant plank]

hi guys pretty new to veteran, any recommended guns to try out?

[viral nacelle]

Wouldn’t cry if it got a red dot scope tho

[viral nacelle]

Plasma

Take the mid line with plasma and have a nice easy ride

Charge shots when you want to obliterate a blob or something carapace, standard shots otherwise

[radiant plank]

i'll try it out once i unlock it then! still a ways away from there tho

[viral nacelle]

Columnus 5 infantry auto gun is also very good, vraks7 ain’t bad but requires you to actually aim, revolver is very based

[gaunt delta]

You gotta learn not to reload the Plasgun but use weapon special to cool it down

[umbral scaffold]

Helbore mk1 is the better rifle in the and

It’s S tier

[gaunt delta]

I recommend trying out both a Recon Lasgun and a Helbore of some kind

They have unique operations that you might either really like, or really hate

[humble nova]

Agri IAG is a nice middle ground of accuracy and killing power if you stick mostly to burst fire

[rain badger]

Still got it

[radiant plank]

will do once i get access to them!

[gaunt delta]

Remember that low-stat weapons are gonna have low Stability and Damage as you level up to 30

[humble nova]

Sorry oddball that was meant for the person you replied to

[viral nacelle]

Also remember that vet is not a gun class, it is a melee class with nice guns

[gaunt delta]

Your opinions of low-stat weapons might differ from high-stat

[radiant plank]

this is the mk1?

[humble nova]

I think a big takeaway is not to rely too much on any one weapon type and be sure to give many of them a fair shake

[humble nova]

Can't remember the mark, it's the non-braced

[radiant plank]

gotcha, i'll keep an open mind

there's a lot of options is all

[rain badger]

autoguns need more recoil reduction imo, thats probably a good enough buff for them without touching anything else

[humble nova]

Also keep in mind that as you level and get more talent points to play with it will open up builds with different weapons

Some are better right out of the box and some are much better with investment

[strange crow]

I mean apparently rn the MG Ia infantry lasgun is very dependable rn and can effectively deal with both hordes and elites in my experience

[serene sage]

it can yeah, all except carapace stuff

[strange crow]

Krak nades 👀

[viral nacelle]

Fuckin horses man

[strange crow]

Wym oddball?

😅

[viral nacelle]

I don’t love the 1a but mine is probably shit 😂

[viral nacelle]

You got autocorrected

[strange crow]

Oh ok haha

[humble nova]

Gotta make that glue somehow

[viral nacelle]

Jello there

[strange crow]

Oh shoot meant to say hordes 💀

[viral nacelle]

General Horsenobi

[humble nova]

We know 🙂

[strange crow]

Rough riders confirmed????

You heard it here folks

[viral nacelle]

Teddy Roosevelt likes this

[serene sage]

you shouldn't hose down hordes still but las guns and autoguns are more forgiving in that aspect

treat yourself a little

[viral nacelle]

All I’m saying is if they add a rough rider class I will pay big money for horse armor

[humble nova]

It's definitely fun to do if you have a surplus of ammo

Just don't be wasteful is the main thing

[strange crow]

Frfr I the highest I play on is vanilla damnation tho so it’s chill haha

[viral nacelle]

If you take deadshot and the lasgun doesn’t use ammo on crit trait you can basically shoot everything all the time

[strange crow]

Me who uses survivalist, shock trooper, and the 25% ammo perk

[serene sage]

I mean I shoot horde sometimes with a Bolter an AT5/M so y'know
Ammo is tight since the update, but not too tight that you can't make a red mist in the middle of the enemy formation

[humble nova]

I did a mission not long ago with the holdout at the end of the scanning area, we had a two by two formation with the two in front crouching and we were just mulching the walkers as they ran in front of us. Felt like a proper squad of soldiers.

[serene sage]

Firing line them hoes

[humble nova]

pew pew

[strange crow]

https://tenor.com/view/i-need-more-bullets-bullets-meme-hasta-la-vista-baby-gif-534144929134366082

[viral nacelle]

> proper squad
> standing in tight formation in the open

Pride of the Russian army

[strange crow]

Mordians would be proud

[serene sage]

In the World War Z book, the remaining surivors basically formed a phalanx firing line to kill the zombies

it's lit

[humble nova]

kek

tbf we were on the bridge thing so they only had one access point - not completely in the open

It works just fine if the enemy are using zero tactics in kind

[viral nacelle]

If it is that easy to gumbo zombo you’d think a single IFV firing 25mm HE shells would single-handedly end the apocalypse. What are the zombies even going to do to the armor, nibble it until their teeth fall off?

Literally just driving in circles turning zombo to compost

I’ve never been able to suspend disbelief enough to belief that a modern army other than the bundeswehr could lose to the zombie apocalypse

[serene sage]

the funny thing is they actually had a conventional weapon fight against the zombie at the Battle of Yonkers
there's a fandom wiki page about it

[viral nacelle]

The bundeswehr could, but they work really hard to be that bad

Also America has more guns than people and everyone seems super eager to use em, it’s hard to imagine the zombos don’t get put down

[humble nova]

28 Days Later has entered the chat

[serene sage]

yeah, but the idea is that sheer number would overwhelm us
and also the fear factor, or the shock

are you gonna fire upon your own countrymen? your family?

[languid escarp]

eh it's kinda easy to believe in cities since they are usually the least armed and most populated

[viral nacelle]

Why would we be afraid of something too dumb to use a knife?

[humble nova]

It's an enemy that has no fear or sense of self-preservation

[viral nacelle]

Police officers getting gnawed at in full body armor are going to be dying of laughter

[humble nova]

You should have fear of it

It would be stupid not to

[serene sage]

you call it "thing" but most people may still consider it "people"

[strange crow]

Also iirc in the book zombies could only be killed by destroying the brain and woukd keep coming after you until then, so as fuel and ammo run out things get more hairy

[serene sage]

look, everybody thinks they would do the right thing until they get hit in the face

[strange crow]

Not saying it’s realistic but still

[viral nacelle]

That just means it’s too dumb to duck when I point a gun on it. Deer are harder to hunt

[serene sage]

yeah, they tried HE round, sabot round, thermobaric bombs, etc.

no effect

[humble nova]

You're implying that it would be a 1-on-1

[serene sage]

also, the enemy is 8,000,000 strong

[viral nacelle]

The nice thing about industrial firepower is it can be a 1:100 and you still win

[languid escarp]

that actually makes no sense since I'm pretty sure thermobaric bomb also create a vaccuum where there is no oxygen

[humble nova]

Alright man, you obviously have a lot of faith in technology

[viral nacelle]

They don’t, but they do melt skin pretty good

[languid escarp]

and no organism can survive without oxygen

[humble nova]

Biology and sociology are also important parts of the conversation, is the point

[strange crow]

The zombs don’t need oxygen either cause they were underwater in the books

[viral nacelle]

Thermobarics don’t create vacuums

[languid escarp]

that makes no sense

[serene sage]

yeah yall need to read the book
it's farfetch

[strange crow]

Idk how this happens but the author did release a book describe the biology behind it apparently

[languid escarp]

don't viruses need oxygen

[serene sage]

but they have a mehcanic to counter human weapons cause yknow it's a book

[viral nacelle]

“Well you see the science is from my butt because it is fiction you mong”

• author, probably

[serene sage]

zombies surive at nuclear sub crush depths lol

that should give you some idea why they were tough in the book

[strange crow]

Nah they don’t it just affects their rate of reproduction apparently

[viral nacelle]

They do need a reasonable temperature range and there’s no way something dead has it

[languid escarp]

true

[forest scaffold]

are we talking about world war z

[strange crow]

And apparently inversely as well?

[serene sage]

When zombies first began to trickle down the freeway, the opening salvos were fired - two MLRS rocket barrages which destroyed a significant percentage of the first wave but ultimately made few kills - zombies with limbs and torsos blown off could still advance so long as they had an intact brain and some means to drag themselves forward. As the undead became more tightly packed, the MLRS lost effectiveness, with the thick swarms of zombies reducing the possibility of a head wound significantly. The second barrage came from M109 Paladin artillery stationed on a hill to the rear of the infantry. They fired fragmentation shells which had even less of an effect than the MLRS barrages. The artillery strikes depended on the "balloon effect," which by proximity to an explosion would cause the liquid in the victim's body to burst. This did not occur, however, because of the zombie's coagulated blood. Therefore, SNT (Sudden Nerve Trauma), which "just shuts down vital organs like God flickin' a light switch," did not happen either.

The Air Force dropped several thermobaric weapons on the zombies and their own troops hoping to neutralize the undead at Yonkers in one sweep (which had the gruesome side-effect of ripping lungs out of individuals not destroyed by the initial blast, leaving numerous ghouls wandering around with their lungs hanging out of their mouths). It accomplished its purpose of destroying the majority of zombies from that battle but many more still poured in from Manhattan, overpowering the American forces and proving, to devastating effect, and on national television no less, that the war with the undead could not be won with conventional tactics.

[humble nova]

That's the fun thing - zombies have been depicted as various things in media and not all of them are "lul ded body go brr"

[strange crow]

I’m no expert I’m just reading the abstract of different texts ofc

[serene sage]

we are talking about a fictional virus dude

it's like yeah it makes no sense why there should be a virus that strong

but yknow, fiction

[viral nacelle]

This is just nonsense 😂 “they’re too densely packed for HE” my man it would blow their brains to absolute bits in those conditions

[serene sage]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[viral nacelle]

Whatever it’s fiction

[forest scaffold]

We don't take the written text as law

Max Brooks is pretty loosey goosey with real world physics

[viral nacelle]

“Why can’t my 240mm rocket headshot zombies????”

[serene sage]

that's kinda my point

also the zombie is more than 8M strong

[forest scaffold]

ripping their lungs out of their mouths

that's not uh

[serene sage]

so there is that perspective

[forest scaffold]

not possible

[serene sage]

8M is a lot of people

you don't just kill 8M people in an afternoon

[viral nacelle]

Friggen lmao “the balloon burst effect” my man has apparently never heard of explosive force and made up some nonsense hand wave

[viral nacelle]

Nuclear weapons say hello

Get in done in minutes

[serene sage]

he said that the zombie blood is coagulated, so the shockwave has less effect

[serene sage]

it's New York city kek

look, im not defending the physic implication of this

im just saying it's fictional and the sheer number of the Zs is high

[viral nacelle]

I wish authors would have the decency to just say “the zombies survived the artillery strike because I fucking say so”

[serene sage]

and they can invent whatever mechanic to make the plot happens

[forest scaffold]

So

uh

Take your expectations

and drop them by like 70%

and you have the average reader

These are who they're catering to

And with that in mind, World War Z is an amazing book.

Its very good fiction. But it is fiction nonetheless

[serene sage]

to be fair, given how we delt with Covid, the sheer stupidity and ineptitude of people in the book is suddenly so believable

[forest scaffold]

It follows all of the established rules of zombie lore, and even weaves in some of its own.

[serene sage]

zombie is at the doorstep and people still deny its existence

[forest scaffold]

It takes a fairly realistic approach to the problem

[viral nacelle]

I mean I guess a realistic zombie fiction of “some zombies rose up and the local swat team obliterated them while laughing, the end” is too short

[forest scaffold]

and then has a really interesting "interviewer angle" thing going on

[serene sage]

they did send an "Alpha" team to kinda do that

[forest scaffold]

Remember, Swat is disarm and if that fails, kill.

More than a few would get bit following ROE

[serene sage]

but eventually the infection spreads because no one took it seriously
they had a fake vaccine to counter the virus which made the populace even more entrenched in denial

[viral nacelle]

At least Warhammer is just like “well you see CHAOS MAGIC 🪄 a wizard did it”

[forest scaffold]

which just exponentially raises the zombification rate

as you need more and more personnel to respond to these emergencies

blablabla

now its across the whole world

[serene sage]

90%+ of Imperium citizens don't know about the Warp

people who knows about existence of Chaos gods are executed if known

40k people are lot less informed than your average earthling rn

[viral nacelle]

I’m not talking about what the people know, I’m talking about how authors in 40k explain why comical scenarios occur: a wizard did it with the power of CHAOS

[serene sage]

sure but 40k is full of shit

[viral nacelle]

Why so many pox walkers? Evil chaos wizard. Why strong monsters that ignore bullets? Muh chaos

So is WWZ

[serene sage]

the totally amount of SMs around the universe is 1M

1M

kek, you can't even hold half a planet with that

[strange crow]

The biggest issue I had with WWZ was that the author described the US military going back to volley fire

Like what

[serene sage]

and allegedly they control millions of worlds

[strange crow]

https://tenor.com/view/it-doesnt-make-any-sense-kyle-broflovski-south-park-s13e8-i-see-dead-celebrities-gif-22860790

[serene sage]

I mean did you read the book?

that's the part that at least makes some sense stretegically

[viral nacelle]

Well you see the answer to the zombie menace is to reject modern infantry tactics and industrial warfare and return to redcoat

[strange crow]

How so?

[serene sage]

you lure zombies into an area and you firing line it

would you rather go in melee?

[viral nacelle]

Fuck me im dying

[sudden dome]

trying to pick a devils sword, it looks like 4 is out because its heavy has no cleave and 7 is better because you have the strike down option while still having a good cleave set in h1 l2

[forest scaffold]

Yeah, if you ACTUALLY read the book, it makes a solid argument for the napoleonic square.

[strange crow]

Bro u literally just keep close order while still allowing for individual target selection

[forest scaffold]

Zombies don't move fast

[viral nacelle]

A formation that was used like twice during the entire Napoleonic wars

And wasn’t even effective then

[serene sage]

they did...

[strange crow]

Why semi auto tho?

[viral nacelle]

Because obviously it’s more useful to turn your entire firepower on the threat than to make a box unless you’ve completely fucked up

[forest scaffold]

Zombies don't move fast, they move in a straight line, it groups your firepower into effective lanes with the ability to swap in different lines of troopers.

[strange crow]

Wait wym by this?

[forest scaffold]

So you just sit in the middle of an open field

[serene sage]

becuse you need headshots? one bullet per second, that's how they were trained

[forest scaffold]

start playing really loud music

and wait for the hordes to shamble in

[strange crow]

Not rly, volley fire inflicts fewer casualties than independent fire and the only advantage it had was faster breaking of morale (which zombies don't have)

[strange crow]

But like just switch to semi auto firing mode? I don't see why they replaced their rifles entirely with semi-auto versions?

[serene sage]

does anyone here have military background?

[forest scaffold]

As far as I can recall, they didn't actually volley fire

They just took up some revolutionary war tactics in formations

[serene sage]

I don't. I will admit

[strange crow]

Ok wikipedia just trifling again

[viral nacelle]

There’s one attested use case in Spain where an isolated infantry formation used it against cavalry, and another attested use at Waterloo. Turning your infantry into convenient targets for artillery while reducing their firepower toward the thread by 3/4ths was generally considered wildly stupid unless some massive mitigating circumstance was in play (enemy lacked artillery or your infantry are conducting a reverse slope defense against a poorly constructed cavalry only assault)

[serene sage]

but if no one here is actually trained then it's all he said she said

[viral nacelle]

The proper defense against cavalry was to wheel toward the threat and shoot the shit out of them

[karmic musk]

Damn the ultimate party comp for Vet surely has to be 2 Ogryn and 1 Psyker. The two Ogryns block your shots while the Psyker brings Purgatus and blinds you

[viral nacelle]

Or simply rely on supporting infantry or cavalry to deal with it

[serene sage]

afaik Brooks actually had consulting some military people to write the book
he took liberty, sure
but at least he asked people

I'd rather trust him than Discord armchair general in his FICTIONAL book

[strange crow]

When cavalry are deployed almost exclusively on the flanks of infantry this is much harder, and squares were used not just for cavalry defense but do defend against flanking by infantry as well

[viral nacelle]

😂

[viral nacelle]

Seriously I’m not gonna get into further detail, you can look this one up

[south garnet]

the napoleonic square is basically just a nickname for a type of formation that has been around since literally before guns existed

[sharp ember]

i see we are discussing scintillian fusilier regimental doctrine

[strange crow]

I know for a fact Austerlitz saw the use of squares, and it was a lesser firepower reduction by 3/4

[serene sage]

they don't have long range reach, Kickback fails at countersniping sometimes
I say you stop firing and let them die so you have clear LoS

[strange crow]

The hollow square was used in the middle ages? When?

[south garnet]

east roman empire/"byzantine" empire

[viral nacelle]

Those weren’t the empty box squares shown in every video game since, they were dense squares of infantry used to attack

[strange crow]

I'm not saying it's not the proper defense, it definitely is when cavalry is committing to a frontal charge but this was often not the case

[strange crow]

It depended on the infantry doctrine, you can't group every nation together in that period

[strange crow]

Why did they use that?

[viral nacelle]

You’ll have trouble finding any for whom doctrine involved empty box squares. British only used it as a local battlefield adaptation

[south garnet]

protecting cavalry in the center via combined arms

[tiny summit]

Had a game where I was running my helbore. A beast of nurgle spawned while we were in a hallway. Say to my friend "I know what to do." I charge with my bayonet, get 3 stabs in, immediately grabbed and eaten

[humble nova]

Peak infantry

[viral nacelle]

It’s the same as the people arguing the British instituted a 2 deep line for firepower reasons in the 18th c. They didn’t. Their regiments were just so massively undermanned that they couldn’t put together a doctrinally correct 3-5 deep

[south garnet]

still rubs me the wrong way that we call it the byzantine empire instead of east roman empire, although I guess east roman empire could mean two distinct time periods depending on whether old-west or new-west empire existed or not

[tiny igloo]

Making Krieg proud, son

[viral nacelle]

Doctrinally correct, continue the attack from inside

[tiny igloo]

Pull the pins on all of your grenades. The Emperor Protects.

(Literally; No grenade self damage)

[viral nacelle]

It’s too bad they don’t give you bonus damage if you throw a grenade inside bon’s mouth

[south garnet]

it really should count as weakspot

[viral nacelle]

Right??

[serene sage]

BoN is the hardest boss in the game

when I was newer it's the easiest

now it's the hardest

[viral nacelle]

Pugs seem to handle it well, chaos spawn otoh absolutely shreds pugs because they can’t handle the tentacle tickle

[tiny igloo]

It's basically the only enemy you have to position against to hit a weakpoint afaik

[south garnet]

whenever I don't have a boss-slayer in my loadout, whichever class I'm playing, I will just go up to the side of it and whack at the weak spot

I'm not burning ammo on BoN

[serene sage]

it's hard still, the body slam can send you off to ledges

[viral nacelle]

I have all these bullets and I’m damn well using em

[serene sage]

and break your shield

[jade notch]

I've gotten my dumb ass killed trying to flank a BoN because of that

[south garnet]

Yea you have to be selective about timing and cognizant of your surroundings

[hoary stratus]

how tf do you dodge the grab btw?

[tiny igloo]

Burning ammo is relative to me, I run revolver. Speaking of, the build I'm running lately has had absolutely disgustingly great results despite just straight up not running a keystone

[serene sage]

that's pretty normal I think

[viral nacelle]

Look for the tell and start dodging back and sliding

[serene sage]

vet can go both ways for keystones

[languid escarp]

no keystone vet best vet unironically

[hoary stratus]

hmm, I've been trying to sidestep it and that doesn't work at all. I'll give that a try, thanks

[languid escarp]

and I'm tired of pretending otherwise

[south garnet]

yea it really depends on the gun I guess and whether we've got reserves or not, if I'm relying on a gun I don't want to be bare once a bunch of specials and disablers show up

[serene sage]

the pattern is always like a bunch of flailings then one grab/big attack that you can dodge
then there is like 1-2s that you can counter in melee

[tiny igloo]

I like Focus Target and Weapon Specialist, and I think I actually am trading off something pretty great not grabbing Focus Target, but... hold on, I think I have a picture somewhere

[viral nacelle]

Just don’t do what I do and dodge back into a trash can, get confused, spam dodge back harder and then get gobbled 😂

[serene sage]

it's preferences, there's no best loadout imo

[south garnet]

I refuse to dabble in vet builds further until new-neo-nu tree drops

[serene sage]

if you like keystoneless, you do you friend

[viral nacelle]

No trench fighter drill?

More attack speed, I need it bad

[tiny summit]

The thing about the keystones they are footnotes to a tree everyone was kinda good with.

[humble nova]

Honestly focus target makes just about any gun good, and it's a great team buff

[sharp echo]

knife + helbore good?

[serene sage]

not every vet has to be melee vet

[sharp echo]

• stealth

[viral nacelle]

Damned dirty liar

[serene sage]

so true

[tiny summit]

I mean you have a helbore. Do you need anything else?

[viral nacelle]

If they didn’t want me to melee they wouldn’t have given me a bayonet

[sharp echo]

knife for speed

[delicate moat]

no, every vet must be melee vet

[sharp echo]

but then i guess i have no use for stealth

[strange crow]

I did not in fact have trouble; Bardin's 1813 manual for infantry officers describes various types of squares and mentions that these are differne than what would be found in the ordnance manual

[sharp echo]

except to go revive

[sharp ember]

doesn't really offer any synergies* but why the hell not, just mind your reduced trash clearing

[serene sage]

can you horde with it effectively? if so, yes

[tiny summit]

Having games lately with my helbore and the only time I swap is to push a burster

[tiny igloo]

It would be nice, but I like having Bring It Down and Always Prepared(? the ammo one). Paired with a good revolver and I'm just sniping every single elite and special that pops up while my allies deal with horde clear and cover me during my reloads.

[viral nacelle]

Devil claw > knife imo

[stray storm]

What’s the dump stat for a knife? Finesse?

[serene sage]

erm no?

[sharp echo]

i love the speed and backstab and crit bonuses on the knife

[delicate moat]

Devil's Knife with parry pls

[viral nacelle]

Purely because I don’t want to break my fucking mouse with knife

[serene sage]

finesse is headstab and crit damage
afaik you want uncanny strike to do work on armored enemies

[tiny summit]

Bayonet is the only knife you need

[sharp ember]

mobility down to 50% if you want to maximize killing stats, but knife kinda wants everything

[sharp echo]

but what else would go good with a knife? columnus?

[serene sage]

so you want high finesse

yeah

[stray storm]

Got it

[serene sage]

or a shotgun

[strange crow]

I'm curious now, if you don't mind could you explain how this works?

[sharp echo]

i wanna build around stealth but idk how cuz im new to this class been maining my psyker for so long

[south garnet]

some butter for when a mixed horde comes to butter your biscuits

[sharp echo]

Im just now worrying about having ammo and grenades

[serene sage]

just don't run knife lol

[sharp echo]

shovel seems knice then

nice*

[tiny igloo]

Obvious note: Running Scavenger with a revolver is basically getting free kills whenever you 1-tap something. And I'm farming ammo for my team while doing it

[sharp ember]

not much to say about stealth. it's just a "okay ignore me while i do something" be it reviving, objectives, or killing something

[serene sage]

just run your standard stuff like Power Sword, Shovels, CAxes, Chain Sword, DClaw, etc.

[atomic zephyr]

why not knife for stealth?

[sharp echo]

fr

why

[atomic zephyr]

ive been using knife on my stealth vet just fine

[ivory aurora]

A butterfly knife

[tiny igloo]

My buddy runs a build that shreds near enough everything by just stacking Bleed into the stratosphere.

[serene sage]

because knife is hard to play? everyone thinks they are that guy who can use knife effectively
most of them aren't that guy

[atomic zephyr]

oh i suppose

[sharp echo]

do you know if backstab headshots do more dmg if done effectively with the right blessings

like significantly

[serene sage]

also what is knife advantage over your standard stuff?

[atomic zephyr]

i think it does the same damage as a normal headshot stab

[serene sage]

genuinely asking

[atomic zephyr]

SPEEEEEEEED

[serene sage]

you run a bit faster and what

[sharp echo]

i thought there was a blessing that gives backstab bonus?

[sharp echo]

big rending

[ivory aurora]

Faster. Further dodges

[atomic zephyr]

is there? i dont run it

[sharp ember]

knife can be set up to have legit single target damage

[serene sage]

that's the zealot stuff

for backstabbing

[sharp echo]

i thought there was a thing for the catachan knife?

[sharp ember]

like 3 hit a crusher if your crits feel generous

[tall torrent]

High dodge distance + very real single target dps with bleed, mercy killer + uncanny

[jolly cave]

Knife movement speed is kind of huge

[sharp echo]

This.

[tall torrent]

But knife horde clear is like

[jolly cave]

It can save a run

[tall torrent]

So miserable

[sharp echo]

thats why i think helbore would go good with it

[ivory aurora]

Yeah it has a hard time clearing hordes

[sharp echo]

the bayonet stab

[serene sage]

or put one in peril, more so than other weapons if the user has no clue what they are doing.

[atomic zephyr]

i just bring shredder frags with my knife build

[tall torrent]

Helbore bayonet needs brutal momentum on ur melee weapon to horde clear effectively

[ivory aurora]

Dose that have cleave ?

[sharp ember]

helbore bayonet is basically knife version 2 without cheese blessings

[tall torrent]

Low cleave

[sharp echo]

maybe? haven't tested

it works tho

[ivory aurora]

Ok I thought so.

[tall torrent]

I think tac axes are maybe worth trying though

[sharp echo]

as a stealth vet you have to deal with hordes less

[tall torrent]

Tac axes have better horde clear than knife

[serene sage]

bayo will most likely get the axe next patch

[tiny summit]

It will like hit 1 or 2 other walkers in a tight cone behind the first target.

[sharp echo]

you just kinda focus on elites

[jolly cave]

Sure, but then we're just assuming skill issue; git gud

[tall torrent]

As long as it’s not completely gutted and still serves a purpose then I’m fine with it

[sharp ember]

i think i trust a purpose-built knife with Uncanny + Mercy Killer than how tac axe feels rn

[serene sage]

just make a ranged build and you can do that just as effectively while not aggro dumping to your teammates?

[ivory aurora]

I think they are fine as is

[sharp echo]

why is that?

[tiny summit]

Yet to try out a good tac axe. But I do know a combat axe w/o BM is miserable

[sharp echo]

oh i guess that's true

[tall torrent]

It’s a little ridiculous rn in how many things u can kill so quickly with it

[atomic zephyr]

yeah bayo does crazy damage lol

at least on mk1 and mk2 lucius

[tall torrent]

Primarily due to buggy (?) interactions with melee blessings

[atomic zephyr]

it still sucks on mk3

[sharp echo]

mk3 bad anyhow , too slow imo

[tall torrent]

The funniest thing is 2 guys using bayonet will kill a chaos spawn insanely fast lmao

[tiny summit]

I've been stabbing monstrosities that arent beasts of nurgles in hallways and the dmg from just that is nuts

[ivory aurora]

I’ve only willingly used it on muties and hounds.

[sharp ember]

yeah that's the thing about it. BM incentivizes high damage attacks, but tac axe is a low damage fast weapon so it doesn't benefit as much

[ivory aurora]

Oh damn I didn’t know that.

[serene sage]

because in the past, FS hates ranged weapon being good at melee as well, they don't want that playstyle
most notable example, Grenadier Guantlet gets its melee nerfed after a patch
and it wasn't even that popular
given how much more egregious the bayonet is right now, it's very likely
also, dear lord the melee blessings somehow affecting the bayo which is a clear bug

[tall torrent]

Mk7’s H1 is a diagonal strike and I think can hit both bruiser 1 shot breakpoints on a godroll

You don’t get the same horde clear power or dps on tanky targets

But you have way better stagger on crushers and maulers

Safer stagger

[tiny summit]

Please at the very least keep its stagger on ragers

[sharp ember]

if that's attainable that's good at least

[tall torrent]

And tac axe dodge distance is pretty good when fighting bosses

[south garnet]

Good question, I don't know much about the specific mechanics. What follows isn't the paper I read in the course of researching historical formations for debunking myths about accurate historical shield use, but instead from wikipedia since I don't have the paper I used handy. Wikipedia's source is a book about Byzantine warfare I haven't read so I can't speak to the integrity or accuracy of the origin:
"The infantry square, consisting of pikemen and archers, acted as a base of operations and refuge for cavalry by forming what was essentially a mobile fortified camp. Cavalry would ride out of the square through gaps in lines to exploit opportunities for attack and retreat the same way if the situation turned against it."
Which is pretty vague. Then it notes the definition of an infantry square as defined by an emperor contemporary to the period.

[strange crow]

Wow that's neat

[sharp echo]

I actually just recently learned that weapons have limited dodges, ive been maining psyker and blindly using deimos ForceSword that apparently has infinite dodges

so that changes things

[strange crow]

I imagine it would have low staying power considering the lack of weight behind it

[serene sage]

i thought they removed inf dodges as well on those weapons?

[south garnet]

It is - I get the sense this probably was not a standard practice, as it would appear at face value to be of limited strategic value - troop composition depending

[sharp echo]

did they? ive not noticed

just looked it up damn

[south garnet]

Considering the typical conflicts they would be looking at during the 900-1100s I'm not sure which actual battles this would have shown up in, but it appears to be acknowledged as a codified strategy by one emperor himself, so I guess who knows. Somebody knows, just not me, ha

[sharp ember]

infinite force sword dodging was so

you couldn't lose to a horde ever

squirrely psykers had to be shot to pieces or get mobbed by specials or have a skill issue

[sharp echo]

shot to pieces not even an option with deflector too ngl

[strange crow]

Thank you for entertaining my curiosity bro this is very cool

[sharp ember]

dammit lmao

[sharp echo]

im actually glad they got rid of inf dodges

[sharp ember]

it is indeed healthier for weapon design

[sharp echo]

it costs stamina, or peril if you have a certain talent

anyway i don't wanna go on a psyker rant here

[sharp ember]

i have little to say about psykers

other than the ones who grossly misuse the wrong tool for the situation

pull out your melee dammit

[flat wasp]

What's the Best melee wep for veteran?

[nimble sentinel]

everybody here is going to say power sword

[crude wind]

Not me

I hate powersword

[flat wasp]

Is chainsword good?

[tall torrent]

Depends on what you’re going for

[crude wind]

Yes

[atomic zephyr]

chainsword is fun

powersword...im still trying to get a handle on
the fact that it basically requires power cycler to be good is annoying

[flat wasp]

What's the best perk n blessing for chainsword?

[trim hemlock]

If you want straightforward and good weapons, pick chainsword or combat axe (2 or 5)

[nimble sentinel]

EXCLUDING THE POOP SWORD Damage = chain sword or combat axe, defense = devil's claw or shovel, dagger has a high skill ceiling but is a lot of fun

[south garnet]

Always happy to talk about history, tons of interesting stuff even outside of warfare. Early egyptian law and land ownership was the most recent thing I was hooked on in trying to figure out how many people a hectare would be able to sustain pre-deforestation of the sahara

[tiny summit]

I still like my powersword but since I don't have those energized blessing I've been enjoying my BM combat axe

[south garnet]

Reading about egyptian men being terrified of their wives taking them to court had me fucking weeping

[flat wasp]

Ok thank you

[vast ferry]

Chainsword is quite good, revved attack can melt a Mutants health. If you're ballsy enough to melee one.

[flat wasp]

I using revolver

[tall torrent]

I would recommend chainsword between those 3 because the combat axes are horrendously hard to roll

[flat wasp]

My knife can't clear horde..

[junior grail]

Always melee a mutant for show of superiority

Unless youre an Ogryn

Then Rock or Box

[nimble sentinel]

numbers has the right idea, chainsword is less blessing dependent than the axes

[unique mountain]

antax caxe is one of the easiest weapons to roll imo, rashad is tricky tho ye

[tall torrent]

For Antax to hit the same bruiser breakpoint is still pretty hard because it doesn’t have finesse bonus

[vast ferry]

My Chainsword DPS against them in juicy. Example:

[tiny igloo]

Currently using a power sword with power cycler 3 and Supercharge 4 with +20 Flak and +25% Maniacs

And I fucking hate it

[flat wasp]

What's ur blessing and perk?

[nimble sentinel]

some of y'all are not emotionally ready to admit the pwoer sword is terrible

[south garnet]

chainsword more like pain, stored! Because pain is bread in french, and storing bread is what you're gonna be doing because of all the dockets you're gonna be making on missions you succeed thanks to your sweet chainsword!

LMAO!

[atomic zephyr]

honestly i only use power sword because the combat axe is boring

[tall torrent]

It’s very strong but not for everybody

[tiny summit]

Is satisfying when you rev it, charge your heavy, dodge to the side and you got wifi chainsaw killing them down the hall

[nimble sentinel]

welcome to the enlightenment, my child

[tiny igloo]

Anything that isn't an energized hit feels like I'm slapping them with a slice of foam.

And ANY amount of hitstun you get turns the fucking field off

[nimble sentinel]

I'm a gunner getting swarmed by literal zombies from the God of Stank, I like dodging more than once

[tiny summit]

Reason why I'm using my combat with BM. Don't need no fancy energy to lop the heads off in one go

[south garnet]

if Ascend were here he'd appreciate my brilliant comedic mind

[tiny igloo]

I'm going back to my chainsword with Wrath IV and Bloodletter IV, IT HAS BETTER CLEAVE THAN THE POWERSWORD

[vast ferry]

Well, my blessing's mediocre since I am only level 18 or so currently. Plus, I'd have to check later.

[tall torrent]

U want brutal momentum on power sword

[flat wasp]

Okay thank u

[tiny igloo]

I don't want a Power Sword at all

[humble nova]

Combat axe supremacy

[tiny igloo]

It feels like shit to use and it's clunky to use correctly

[flat wasp]

Good to know

[unique mountain]

they're shit until they're good. need cycler 4, and recommend the ps6 so you can block cancel the charge anim

[ivory aurora]

As a power sword user I agree.

I just like 2 tapping crushers lol

[tiny igloo]

I have a tool for that, it's called a fucking REVOLVER.

[flat wasp]

Revolver 2 shot crusher

[tiny summit]

It is satisfying imo to be in a rhythm of energize>lmb>energize>lmb and see 3-5 heads go up in the air

[umbral scaffold]

I'm still using the same ps as 4 month ago
I don't like any over melee weapons besides the knife

[ivory aurora]

So dose my plasma.

[humble nova]

I love charging my overhead CAxe on a Crusher and taking them down with headshots. Look at me, I am the Crusher now.

[ivory aurora]

The Mk6 I think it was has a stab push attack fallowed by a strike down that I like

[south garnet]

the overhead on ps6 and the charge block is just, oh boy

[warm idol]

it's not that bad once you get PC

[tiny igloo]

I have PC3, still clunky and shit

[warm idol]

mk6 especially is just fun with it's funny block and stab

[south garnet]

yea without power cycler 4 power swords are absolute shit

[warm idol]

eh I have it with pc3 and it feels fine to use

but then again I used chainaxe for the longest time and enjoyed it

[south garnet]

Even with 4 it's mildly annoying until you get used to it

[warm idol]

so maybe im just a masochist

[tiny igloo]

I'm not confident that one extra energized hit will solve the problem of getting hitstunned out of energized and the absolute shit damage feedback

[ivory aurora]

Very true. Took me a while.

[unique mountain]

stop getting hit

[tiny summit]

A power sword w/o PC at least feels better than a combat axe w/o BM

[tiny igloo]

I am going back to chainsword, powersword sucks in comparison

[warm idol]

pushing gives you more than enough time to charge and slice half a horde

[tiny igloo]

Don't care

[ivory aurora]

My main is a chain sword or sapper shovel PS is just for fun.

I don’t take it to damnation maelstrom

[vast ferry]

I plan to use shovel when I have Krieger drip.

[ivory aurora]

I’m using it without the Krieger drip.

[tiny igloo]

PSword just feels like shit to use even when you can make it work.

[vast ferry]

Maybe in Part 2 it'll get a rework?

[warm idol]

it doesn't need a rework

[tiny igloo]

In the time it takes me to clear a horde with it, even when not getting hitstunned by some random trash my team was too lazy to actually make sure was dead instead of just knocked down, I could've killed everything with just Csword heavies

[warm idol]

it's fine the way it is, especially considering it's easily one of the best melee weapons for vet alongside the likes of combat axe

being able to smack hordes as well as bullying crushers and other armored enemies

only ragers are a problem i'd say

which is prolly why people consider the rashad to be the best melee weapon

[tiny igloo]

Revolver, krak grenades, chainsword rev hits, I don't need the Psword to deal with armored.

[warm idol]

I don't really like chainsword for armored

[tiny igloo]

It's shit and redundant

[tall torrent]

Chainsword rev is horribly impractical for mauler & crusher groups

[warm idol]

that's a you opinion

[tiny igloo]

Revolver, krak grenade

[vast ferry]

I agree.

[warm idol]

it's fine not to like it as it is kinda clunky

but saying its shit is plain wrong lol

[humble nova]

Big agree. It's fun for taking out a one-off, but with these giant groups it's just a liability

[tardy plaza]

Any changes necessary? Shout build atm

I'm pretty amateur to new Vet

[vast ferry]

Like, the Lasguns are clunky for my taste... But my teammates show me it works well.

[tiny igloo]

I'm saying it's shit because it's verifiably obviously subpar, and I can prove it by just pointing out that you people singing its praises are the minority

Not the majority

[warm idol]

eh

[tall torrent]

My big issue with chainsword is that I basically do not have a weapon special outside of dealing with mutants

[warm idol]

issue of the skill

[humble nova]

Maniac to carapace for the sword maybe

[tiny igloo]

You don't have skill

[warm idol]

I mean that's pretty cookiecutter

[humble nova]

Unless you really want to use it on ragers

[tiny igloo]

You're just comitted to making a shit weapon work

[tall torrent]

Maniac is fine, allows for 1 shot mutant breakpoint

[warm idol]

not much wrong you can do

[quick fossil]

Can anyone suggest me a build to go with Infantry Autogun ?

[ivory aurora]

Looks good to me. But the plasma could maybe use a bit more on the ammo side. Other then that that’s really good roll

[warm idol]

ciag?

basically anything lol

[humble nova]

I'm pretty shit at head shotting them with melee so I'll take your word for it

[warm idol]

that gun is bonkers

[humble nova]

A basic shout build works fine, just make sure to get Onslaught

[tiny summit]

Do whatever. It works. Onslaught is a nice talent though stacking brittleness with the columnus and graia

[tiny igloo]

I'm too addicted to the revolver (my beloved). And the damage on most of the infantry autoguns just seems way too low to deal with much of anything above Malice.

[tall torrent]

Yea that’s just untrue

[tiny igloo]

If I need two bullets to kill a groaner without a headshot, I'm not interested.

[hybrid river]

You shouldn’t be shooting groaners

[humble nova]

If you're using a gun to deal with groaners you're doing it wrong

[tiny summit]

OK then that's a preference, not the ability of the gun

[ivory aurora]

Waste of ammo as it’s overkill

[tiny igloo]

The point was the damage is ass.

[humble nova]

If you don't have the skill to stay on target that's not a gun problem

[tiny igloo]

Yeah, not the problem, damage sucks

[humble nova]

Looking forward to your next complaint when the revolver gets nerfed

[tall torrent]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046912126746374274/1180194763039838300/GOODLORD.mp4?ex=657c8906&is=656a1406&hm=2cb36b7a802c2a6aedb9acd81b1b0f13a99216cd12885e7f9b54eba914a80fbe&

[tiny igloo]

I'm still waiting for you to say something relevant

[tall torrent]

Think again

[tiny summit]

I would expect the 40+ mag weapon to deal less dmg per shot than the 5 shot single reload revolver

[ivory aurora]

Revolver : rewards aim punishes missed shots as each round hits like a truck. Auto guns : higher mag size allowed for some misses but rewards good tracking and aim

[warm idol]

have you actually ever used the colombus

like

no shit an automatic weapon

with a 50 mag round

is gonna do less damage per bullet

that's why you have 50 of them

[tall torrent]

(Not my clip)

[tiny igloo]

Missing. The. Point.

[umbral scaffold]

Ok…. Damage perks engage

[warm idol]

my man calling every weapon you dislike shit is not a point

[tiny summit]

The only point is preference, not it's ability to handle damnation

[ivory aurora]

I would be nice if auto gun rounds hit as hard as a revolver but then you might as well be firing a smaller bolter

[calm prairie]

Fr

[umbral scaffold]

Or ditch the revolver all together even

The revolver is niche and unique just like all weapons

[calm prairie]

Calling the power swords bad weapons is just wrong when they’re some of the most capable tools in the game

[humble nova]

This dude has no position, they just want to complain

[calm prairie]

Even the 3 without the poke

[tiny igloo]

I'm calling them bad weapons because they're clunky and feel bad to use, I don't care how good they theoretically can be

They still suck

[calm prairie]

Okay so you dont like them

[warm idol]

they don't suck you just don't like them

[calm prairie]

They’re not bad

[warm idol]

it's fine not to like something

but like

[tiny summit]

Again. Preference.

[warm idol]

you are being objectively incorrect

[tiny igloo]

YES. CONGRATULATIONS. YOU CAN READ.

[ivory aurora]

It is great in the hands of an experienced player. Until you get used to it it’s gonna suck for you.

[humble nova]

Ya'll are getting baited so fucking hard

[calm prairie]

Im not the one taking issue with it lol

[warm idol]

man pre nerf mk3

even without pc

was so funny

[calm prairie]

I use the 6 all the time and it literally deletes everything I need it to with poke combo

[unreal drum]

The best weapons are the ones you're best with.

[ivory aurora]

Yeah I know lol

[calm prairie]

Launch power sword where you just hold down lmb and swing like 5 times without power cycler LOL

[tiny igloo]

I'm not saying they're objectively bad. I'm saying they suck. I didn't think I had to openly state that I'm not evaluating them purely on merit

[ivory aurora]

Didn’t mean to replay XD

[humble nova]

Breaking news: words mean things

[calm prairie]

Well your word choice is horrendous for the “point” you’re trying to make

[umbral scaffold]

To each their own it’s. An pve game

Why should we bother about balance

[tiny igloo]

Fine. I'll just start assuming that everyone is so internet poisoned that statements of opinion are taken as statements of fact as a matter of course.

[humble nova]

The only reason to care about balance is to bring underused weapons up to par

[sudden dome]

recon las pistols and the braced other than Columbus are some of the highest dps guns but youre worried about ammo on guns with infinite sustain

[humble nova]

Because for someone out there, every weapon is their favorite type, so they should all be equally viable

[warm idol]

the way you worded it made it seem a lot less like an opinion lmao

[calm prairie]

They’re taken as statements of fact when you phrase it as trying to argue a point with

[swift flax]

you did literally call it a bad weapon

[warm idol]

buff accatrans

[umbral scaffold]

The main issue is taking people seriously on the internet … be like he and view everyone as your enemy simple as that … No reason to make friends online bud

[hard cave]

veterans when their lasgun of choice is not the best

[warm idol]

ny beloved bullpup needs help

[karmic musk]

Not needing to care about balance because its PvE is about the dumbest statement ever that always get parroted around.

[humble nova]

They were good for quite a while there, they just took multiple unreasonable nerfs and got not nearly enough compensation

[umbral scaffold]

[warm idol]

the classic "just nerf the shit out of it" response

[tiny igloo]

And then people tried to convince me they weren't when I was being very fucking clear I didn't care how well they performed.

[hybrid river]

Your original statement on the Columnus wasn’t that you didn’t like it it was that “damage seemed to low to deal with anything above malice” which is incorrect and people contested that

[humble nova]

Zealot flamethrower has entered the chat

[hard cave]

I just want actual sights on the auto guns that aren't iron sights

that aren't mtxs

[calm prairie]

Yeah because you were seemingly trying to say they were bad

Not that you don’t like how they play

[umbral scaffold]

I get that … tbf I tell people to get good and adapt

[warm idol]

the flamer is so sad, altho tbh id still use it if it was on vet for style points

[forest maple]

Use weapon customization mod and you are more than set. Difference is night and day on my aiming performance

[tiny summit]

You didn't just state an opinion, you were paired it that the weapons can't handle anything above malice

[tall torrent]

Just let go lol it’s one’s opinion it’s whatever

[umbral scaffold]

https://tenor.com/view/improvise-adapt-overcome-bear-grylls-gif-10468556

[warm idol]

well you can dabble in some tech heresy

[hard cave]

moding the game

[umbral scaffold]

I never saw a change in Flamer other then it just has less ammo

[warm idol]

weapon customisation mod is even approved by fatshark themselves iirc

[forest maple]

Weapon customization mod is literally god-sent

I can't explain to you how good the accatran sight is

[tiny igloo]

That mod keeps crashing the game for me, unfortunately

[warm idol]

since it uses an existing unused system and is client side

[umbral scaffold]

Ok goober

[hard cave]

how jank is it

[tall torrent]

Would rather they add it into the actual game

[warm idol]

same but I don't expect logic from them

[umbral scaffold]

Relies on mods to actually play the game lol

[warm idol]

not too bad

but the addon

[umbral scaffold]

https://tenor.com/view/marcus-fenix-fortnite-gears-of-war-dance-emote-gif-26121914

[ivory aurora]

Yeah. I just but the bullet and did to cuz I was tired of the sights on hellboars

[warm idol]

allows you to create some really cursed combos

[forest maple]

What are you some kind of puritan? Let me enjoy proper sights

[umbral scaffold]

So iron sights aren’t proper hmmm ok heratic

Can’t adapt it’s ok

[humble nova]

It got "fixed" a while back

[karmic musk]

Iron sights are for dumbasses

[sudden dome]

imagine if they actually paid modders that made good mods to add them to the game. What kind of mods would come out of developers practically put out bounties

[tiny summit]

Where's the weapon customization mod?

[warm idol]

modding discord

[tall torrent]

I would not call helbore sights proper lol

[umbral scaffold]

Yeah I know just ran it a lot even then

[forest maple]

modding discord

[warm idol]

should have a link in #📌communities

[umbral scaffold]

Tell that to the Helbore mk1 main “me”

[mystic belfry]

I don’t bother with sight mods either

If they were in game I’d use em but I don’t really care

[humble nova]

They would have to admit their game isn't up to the expectations of the players

[umbral scaffold]

Legit why ruin a perfectly crafted fire arm all cause you want a scope for your gun

[tall torrent]

I use mk2, I can work with them, I still don’t like them

[forest maple]

We get it, you are insane with the iron sights. I for one, prefer and enjoy more playing with REAL sights that dont require me to squint like an asshole

[umbral scaffold]

Adapt