veteran-class

[terse idol]

I mean, yeah that's fair

[slow garden]

Barrier psyker

[terse idol]

The AOE is considerable

[slow garden]

Also extremely valuable

[terse idol]

And the AI sometimes doesn't think that fast so the enemies will just kinda mill about for abit

[willow badger]

is ghost iv worth sacrificing this bad boy for?

[terse idol]

If the shooters run into you

[zinc osprey]

Yeah exactly.

[swift thistle]

It’s better to either throw them at your feet, or in the gunners sitelines

[terse idol]

That's great they go into melee

[south spindle]

I disagree. Otherwise people would appreciate Smite Psykers an nearly everyone fucking hates them

[slow garden]

Making key plays with the right tools at the right time and making sure your team has what it needs, where it needs, to deal with the problems.

I mean I appreciate Smite Psykers.

Immensely.

[terse idol]

Truuue also

[mystic belfry]

Shooters usually do, gunners and shotguns sometimes do

[slow garden]

My favorite type of Psyker.

[zinc osprey]

It's a key part of melee veteran imo

[terse idol]

Yeah gunners will just kinda sit there

[slow garden]

... Tbh I've never ran into someone that -Hates- Smite Psykers...

[terse idol]

Shotgunners seem to always try to move towards you, so they'll go in melee and that's valuable

[tall torrent]

I believe smite > assail > brain rupture

[south spindle]

My favourite players are the ones who kill things, not the ones who make themselves a prop by spamming CC into poxwalkers, but hey it is what it is

[slow garden]

Like who doesn't love Smite?

[mystic belfry]

There’s also synergy with shout

[slow garden]

It's... It's -Great-! You just make the entire enemy horde of ragers and chaff stop and have a sizzle dance for 10 seconds

[swift thistle]

The best part of smokes by far is that they make me feel like an enlightened grenade user instead of those filthy krak and frag peasants

[mystic belfry]

Shout staggers melee, and protects chip damage from big attacks with overhead

[slow garden]

They buy more time and space than an Ogryn.

[south spindle]

When you could be killing them, yes

[mystic belfry]

Smokes protect from ranged chip damage

[tall torrent]

This is bricked

[terse idol]

To be fair shredder grenades are perfectly acceptable

[mystic belfry]

All three nades are good

[slow garden]

In Auric Damnation the ability to stun an entire wave of enemies for 10 seconds is FAR more important than 10 kills.

[mystic belfry]

Depends on your build and goals

[gusty sonnet]

The hate from smite psyker was due to smite smoke tanking framerate, now that it's fix ppl dont mind/like them

[slow garden]

Auric Damnation is all about tempo.

[mystic belfry]

I find myself using krak the least lately tbh

[terse idol]

Smite users when your computer doesn't explode because smite is making 100000 gibs

[south spindle]

Yeah no... Killing them is the most important, and more important still is not putting more weight on your teammates expecting them to do the killing you cannot

[terse idol]

😌

[mystic belfry]

It most of my builds have carapace damage

[swift thistle]

Well krak is broken right now so good decision

[terse idol]

But here's the thing you make it easier for your teammates to kill them

[slow garden]

I mean you can have that opinion if you want to, but I firmly disagree.

[swift thistle]

Well they might have fixed that

[terse idol]

Without any risk to yourself

[mystic belfry]

Meh they’re fine they just don’t stick as well

[south spindle]

Thats not the point

[slow garden]

Smite is an incredibly useful team helper.

[tall torrent]

Smite enables ur team to kill them much faster

[slow garden]

And I will continue to appreciate it immensely as a Vet main.

[tall torrent]

The fact that smite can break bulwarks open is HUGE

[mystic belfry]

Smite is great support

[swift thistle]

Smite basically pauses time for 10 seconds for your team

[south spindle]

Smite makes the game either a fucking snoozefest, or worse, makes that Psyker an absolute liability because they're more often than not doing absolutely nothing but Smiting

[tall torrent]

You also cannot just blow yourself up with smite

[south spindle]

You can actually

[terse idol]

That's the problem though isn't it, the strongest CC is killing someone, but also smite can stun most targets that have high threat into low threats

[frank ether]

would make little sense for it to make gunners forget you exist but then again ogryn shield aggro also makes zero sense

[tall torrent]

It reaches 100% then auto-quells

[slow garden]

Bruh you need to go play some high intensity shock troop auric damnations

[swift thistle]

You 100% cannot using exclusively smite

[south spindle]

If you get back on the gas too fast during the auto-quell, you 'splode

[frank ether]

only ogryn is allowed to nerf the IQ of gunners

[slow garden]

And work on your appreciation of smite

[south spindle]

I will not, thanks

[swift thistle]

No it autostops again

[slow garden]

[terse idol]

I mean frankly most psykers I see on damnation play smite and force wall

[swift thistle]

You get like 1/2 a second of smite

[tall torrent]

Pretty sure it stops again and auto quells

[slow garden]

Hehe gotta be cheeky

[south spindle]

I've blown myself up with it before trying the new tree when P13 was released

[mystic belfry]

Smite and force wall is a good combo

I like brainburst with fire staff though myself

[south spindle]

GunPsyker best Psyker ngl

[tall torrent]

I don’t think u can blow urself up with smite now

[south spindle]

Blaze Trauma probably second

[mystic belfry]

Gun Psyker is fine but I wouldn’t play one

Parker lol

[slow garden]

Tbh I appreciate a mixed gun psyker

With smite and shield

[mystic belfry]

It’s a good combo

[south spindle]

Don't know if it was changed, but still, at best its a snoozefest, at worst they die almost instantly because they typically ignore all the stuff behind them

[slow garden]

They can pick off specials, defend themselves at close-medium range, AND they lock down a shit ton of bad guys

The auric maelstrom PTSD in me adores them

[mystic belfry]

You can also run full gun psyker it’s actually good

[tall torrent]

It’s boring from an input perspective for sure but it’s definitely the strongest pick for most situations

[slow garden]

But I miss the barrier so much then

[south spindle]

Trauma has massive CC, but actually kills things

[mystic belfry]

Trauma is very very good

Conflagration staff, but better tbh

[gusty sonnet]

Trauma is very good, but smite is able to bring a gun and thus has exttra range

[south spindle]

I dont think Ive ever seen a Smite Psyker with a gun, like ever

[mystic belfry]

Trauma with assail or brainburst

[tall torrent]

Trauma is good but smite controls big waves better still

[slow garden]

I usually see smite psyker with a revolver

[south spindle]

Cc is less important than killing things, no contest, at all

[slow garden]

People like to take it to kill snipers or armor I think

[mystic belfry]

There’s plenty of contest

Depends on how much killing vs how much cc

[tall torrent]

In a vacuum where you’re all alone, sure

[slow garden]

CC is incredibly important at higher difficulties

[south spindle]

No, period

Cc is fuckin dogshit in this game

[terse idol]

Huh?

No it isn't

[slow garden]

Bro trollin at this point

Bait

[tall torrent]

Bait used to be believable

[slow garden]

🎣

[terse idol]

Sometimes you can't make the breakpoints to kill everything in one shot

[slow garden]

Im the fish

[frank ether]

buff shout

[terse idol]

In an ideal world, yes everyone has weapons that one shot things

[mystic belfry]

Shout should make you invulnerable for 30 seconds

[terse idol]

But that is simply not the case

[south spindle]

You dont need to be one shotting everything, you do need to contribute meaningful damage

[mystic belfry]

Can you think of no way to cc and do damage at the same time

[terse idol]

You need to do meaningful damage while being safe too which smite accomplishes fine

[mystic belfry]

Think harder, I believe in you

[slow garden]

You know that Smite pops open all enemies hit by it to 25% incoming damage with the right perk yea? (Which basically every smite psyker takes)

[south spindle]

The best CC is stuff not existing, simple as

[slow garden]

That's essentially a breakpoint skip

On every single enemy hit by it

[terse idol]

Yes but thregame isn't built for that, because of the density of some special spawns

And hordes

[slow garden]

Cutting down the ttk by usually half, maybe 1/3 on some targets

While also clearing out all chaff on its own

[south spindle]

It literally is... If you cant kill fast enough, its either skill issue or build issue

[terse idol]

Sometimes you do need CC

[tall torrent]

You’re thinking in a vacuum where your teammates aren’t killing anything

[slow garden]

Okay I gotta go back to work lol I dont got time to argue this more xd

[terse idol]

I mean Smite enables people to kill faster by giving enemies a 25% damage mod

[south spindle]

Thats what pugs are

[terse idol]

So it actually helps you reach break points to kill things faster

[timid otter]

Where

[terse idol]

Or well the damage mod talent

Where is ittt

[timid otter]

Where are you getting the 25% from?

[terse idol]

I dunno someone said it earlier what percent is it

[timid otter]

Read the talent.

[devout atlas]

Isn't it bugged to only work for the M1

[terse idol]

No tell me

[flint garden]

aint it 10%

[terse idol]

(10% aint too shabby) 🥹

[timid otter]

Its 10% BASE damage.

[terse idol]

For reaching breakpoints

[south spindle]

Its pretty shit, because it relies on your team having to kill the stuff you are not killing

[timid otter]

Less then 10% for many weapons

[tall torrent]

Well idk abt ur matchmaking or region so I can’t speak on that but in my experience smite is hugely useful in basically every scenario where there aren’t multiple snipers involved

[gusty sonnet]

You have to spend a node for the bonus

[tall torrent]

Smite opens up 3 bulwarks, stun locks 5 ragers and maulers on top of a horde
Just beautiful

[hollow ibex]

It helps pubs a lot

[south spindle]

You can open up Bulwarks by letting them swing an then shooting them in the head lol

[hollow ibex]

Most people are capable of clicking lmb

[terse idol]

Wait yes 10% increased base damage from all sources

[south spindle]

Or parrying them, or a multitude of other options lol

[terse idol]

Yesss

But its still useful

[terse idol]

I mean you didn't kill that bulwark with the parry

[hollow ibex]

You expect too much of people

[terse idol]

Woah hold on

[tall torrent]

Doing that in a mixed horde of ragers and maulers where space of movement is more limited is pretty risky

[terse idol]

You're telling me you used an ability by using an enemy to attack you first which also leaves you open to receive other attacks

[south spindle]

Thats why you have grenades, which also kill things...

[terse idol]

Rather than let a smite psyker open them up for free?

[devout atlas]

You'd just do more DPS being useful in combat instead 😭

[south spindle]

Yep

It do be like that

[devout atlas]

Smite is useful but it's better to attach it, then let go because then it knocks enemies on their ass

Then go back to DPS

[terse idol]

Like parry aint fool proof

Smite is

[south spindle]

Killing stuff >>>>>>>>>> CC

[devout atlas]

Or

do both

[terse idol]

Doing both is acceptable

[south spindle]

Its incredibly generous with its parry frames

[terse idol]

Again

[south spindle]

Its not Darksouls

[terse idol]

That is leaving you open to attack

[tall torrent]

It’s not like Psyker has to stay on smite 24/7 just to exclusively do CC

[manic flax]

Is the bayonet lasgun thing good?

[south spindle]

Only if your positioning and timing is giga-shit

[gusty sonnet]

Yeah, but because of a glitch

[terse idol]

Considering also on damnation missions you're sometimes fighting more than one bulwark

Like come on

Do you even play damnation

[gusty sonnet]

it won't be forever good

[south spindle]

Pretty much only Auric Maelstrom

[terse idol]

You're gonna be able to parry 1 bulwark to open gim up

Then the other 3 are gonna slam you anyways

While smite circumvents that need

[south spindle]

If they're stacked up that close, you know what i do? I throw a grenade at them

[terse idol]

Like bruh

Okay?

A grenade is CC

[manic flax]

[south spindle]

With meaningful damage attached, yes

[terse idol]

???

Smite has meaningful damage

And a cc

And doesn't open you up yo further attacks.....

[tall torrent]

Are you talking abt Psyker or not because Psyker doesn’t get nades to throw in that situation
Veteran? Sure? Veteran in that case would use nades

[south spindle]

Smite has no meaningful damage outside of killing poxwalkers what are you on?

[terse idol]

?????

Huh?

[manic flax]

What’s the best gun for a lvl 7 veteran

[terse idol]

It does damage

I dunno chief

[tall torrent]

Just level up

[terse idol]

I just dont believe your philosophy at all

[whole moon]

Whichever one you got last as a reward

[manic flax]

Bolt gun?

[terse idol]

Smite is useful

[south spindle]

If im playing Psyker, im playing Scriers/Gun, but in all honesty, the class is all spammy-aimbot shit, so its not very entertaining

[terse idol]

You can have your opinion

[tall torrent]

Just go level up

[manic flax]

Until?

[terse idol]

30

[gusty sonnet]

There's not really an absolute best gun

[south spindle]

And you can have yours, even if you're coping 😄

[terse idol]

I mean we had 4 other people

Here

Arguing against your point

[manic flax]

Well obviously but what is the best for my point in the game

[tall torrent]

You’re saying smite is bad
Then as veteran or zealot you’d use nades (which come with CC)
Frag doesn’t do very much damage
Stun does barely any damage

[terse idol]

But I'm the person coping

[whole moon]

It isn't worth focussing on your weapons til level 30, either spending Melk coins on em or consecration of em. You don't unlock full stats until lvl 30

[terse idol]

[tall torrent]

Yes frag does damage
Not that much damage

[terse idol]

Anything

Like

[manic flax]

Bayonet lasgun?

[south spindle]

Incen'Grenades on Zealot wipe a Bulwark squad so fuckin easy its not even funny

[tall torrent]

Frag also doesn’t get to keep them staggered very long

[timid otter]

I do nor know but i wish i knew

[terse idol]

At that low level, anything is useable because you're not playing the hardest the game is throwing at you

[flint garden]

just use a random revolver

[south spindle]

It doesnt have to keep them staggered for long, they're not Crushers

[tall torrent]

Incendiary different story
You still want to keep them in the fire

[terse idol]

Instead of focusing on what the meta weapon at low level is find a weapon you enjoy using first

[fresh jungle]

Until 30. Before then, the guns you can acquire have lower stats, so just use whichever you like the look of and try them out for feel

[south spindle]

Which is easy, just stand in front of them, in the fire

[tall torrent]

Idk what you’re trying to argue here

[manic flax]

I must grind for chainsword+bolter to be the space marine wannabe

[tall torrent]

Teammates using smite? Or yourself using smite?

[terse idol]

There's no point in hamstringing yourself before you know all the mechanics the game has to offer

[terse idol]

Yes do that

[fresh jungle]

Though most guns will also feel a bit better at high level due to stability stats

[terse idol]

Have fun and try the different weapons out

[manic flax]

After my homework

[hoary stratus]

4 smite psykers walk into an auric maelstrom...

[south spindle]

Smite is just doodoo, if im using it, or someone else is using it, its a safe mode for low-tier players who probably shouldnt be playing Aurics in the first place

[gusty sonnet]

Yeah I guess semi autos are better at lower level

[south spindle]

If you need it to CC because you either cant kill fast enough, or are prone to positioning errors, thats a problem

[tall torrent]

You’re saying “if I’m using smite I don’t do enough damage to matter and CC is useless” then say “I’d just throw nade in those bad situations where smite would have been very helpful”

[terse idol]

I mean I would even use a recon on low levels

[south spindle]

No, im saying in a good lobby, its a waste of time, because it doesnt kill anything and makes your team have to pick up the slack

[terse idol]

Because until you hit your first damantion

Everything works

Hell even before auric damnation anything can work

[gusty sonnet]

True, I kinda forgot about those

[south spindle]

If you need Smite in the lobby to pull Ws out of shitty situations, thats a skill issue. Murdering beats CC, every single time

If you're capable of it

[tall torrent]

So your main argument against smite is “I don’t do enough damage and have to rely on teammates to kill” when you’re “in a good lobby”

[timid otter]

Pure CC doesnt work due to how spawns work in the game. More kills = less hordes, specials spawning

[tall torrent]

That’s so self-contradictory

[south spindle]

Now you're just putting words in my mouth to suit your own argument

[manic flax]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1117250650787553330/1178531097164923020/image.png?ex=65767b9d&is=6564069d&hm=a272259010b0a352fd8598740ff84fd0243c8f0021265a24ad9e419bbfbe56e9&

[south spindle]

I didnt say any of that, at all

[manic flax]

m

[south spindle]

Exactly

[tall torrent]

lol ok

[gusty sonnet]

1. There's 3 more players
2. Nobody said the psyker is supposed to only smite

[raw steppe]

smite is fine tbh, but it's just a tool

it's like those ppl who used to only BB

[timid otter]

Keyword is pure CC

[raw steppe]

and never use anything else

it's not bad at all

[timid otter]

If you spam smite 24/7 you are pure CC and not very helpful

This is why staffs like trauma are so good.

They CC while doing heavy damage

[tall torrent]

If only smiting 24/7 that’s not good
Using smite as a tool to control wave and dealing damage in between, perfectly fine

[south spindle]

Fine, but everything else with CC elements does that better

[nimble sentinel]

tfw wen the dregs line up and u got plasma

[south spindle]

Hence why Smite is not as good as people seem to think it is

[raw steppe]

I think smite is fine lol

people in lower difficulties just crutch on it very hard

and it gives it a bad rep

[terse idol]

I mean its fine and using it doesn't mean you're a low tier player

[raw steppe]

I dont think it's bad

at all

[tall torrent]

Lower difficulty players hold smite very highly because it corrects their bad habits

[terse idol]

I think folks on high damnation know how to use smite very well

[south spindle]

It merely exists, it doesnt contribute much, an its not overly helpful for mission progress when you could be both CCing and killing stuffs at the same time, as Wilmer so dilligently pointed out

[raw steppe]

It's pretty helpful when used properly lol

[terse idol]

I mean its still useful

I dunno chief

[timid otter]

Proper usage would be triggering just to knock enemies down no?

[terse idol]

It fits a nice niche

[tall torrent]

Pretty much
Unless there’s a big enough problem that requires continued use

[south prairie]

Why are we arguing about psyker in vet channel anyway?

[fresh jungle]

Does this line of reasoning also imply shield is worse than scrier's because you should just kill the stuff that's shooting?

[terse idol]

Well I mean smite can stop muties and dogs, maulers, crushers, bulwarks beserkers all in their tracks to no risk to your team

[south spindle]

I can think of one single instance where Smite could contribute heavily, and thats with Purgatus, an even then, its gonna be slow, not something easily leveraged, and not something that really does much vs other choices

[timid otter]

Psykers are the future

[tall torrent]

Psyker does better gun dmg than vet rn (Columnus IAG)

[south spindle]

No, because shield doesnt take up your hands to be used, you plop it down an continue doing damage

They're fundamentally different

[timid otter]

Likely has more to do with perilous combustion then anything else

[spark helm]

anyone know if you get a bonus to ordo dockets for the other non-malestrom missions that aren't through quickplay?

[fresh jungle]

Vent doesn't take up your hands. Hmm

[south spindle]

Again, another example of an ability that does both CC and damage

[raw steppe]

zealot bible is very strong even though it uses your hands

[terse idol]

I mean with that train of logic anything support based is useless because it isn't helping you kill things faster....

[raw steppe]

and doesn't do damage

[south spindle]

You can push monsters off the edge with it tho

[terse idol]

Or using a stun grenade on zealot to revive your team

[south spindle]

So it kinda does, though indirectly

[terse idol]

Which by your logic is also useless

[raw steppe]

yeah but you do that like once or twice

ever

[south spindle]

Incen'Grenades do that also

[terse idol]

With incind they can still attack you no?

[south spindle]

And again, Stuns dont take up your hands.

[terse idol]

You gonna incind the crusher and revive your teammate?

[spark helm]

they don\t harm you

[terse idol]

Hmm

[south spindle]

No, im gonna kill the Crusher, if the teammate dies, oh well, bad luck.

[spark helm]

yellow fire good

[terse idol]

I just think you're fine ignoring all the criticisms about how your argument in smite is weak and that's fine

[spark helm]

zealots can't be trusted with meaningful friendly fire lol

[terse idol]

I got no more to add

[spark helm]

smite is ridiculous what?

One of the most economic horde control abilities in the game hands down.

[south spindle]

Nah, you're just trying to pull strawman arguments in to bolster your point, at the end of the day, damage beats CC every day of the week

[spark helm]

probably a troll i guess idk

[south spindle]

Hence why barely anyone touched Crusher till the rework, because it was all CC with little to no damage

[terse idol]

I mean again

Smite has its uses

I just think you're making unfair arguments against it

[spark helm]

smite is on another level compared to crusher for zealots.

[south spindle]

Kek no

[spark helm]

But I've seen it be fine when they run it

[south spindle]

What are you smoking?

[spark helm]

some whatever the fuck strain

smite is fine

[south spindle]

Crusher is one of the best melee weapons in the game at the moment

[raw steppe]

He's right in a sense; people have an overreliance on smite in a lot of situations when it doesn't really do much- But he's also delusional in a sense where he thinks there's no circumstance where smite performs really well.

[slim shard]

Smite is helpful fo space making, which can be raelly useful in intense moments

[spark helm]

That's fine I'm talking about smite for psykers.

idk whatever is called smite for zealots if anything

[raw steppe]

bible

[spark helm]

Oh

[raw steppe]

but he isn't calling that bad

[spark helm]

mhm

[raw steppe]

because his arguments are inconsistent

he's made up his mind

already

[spark helm]

so what is supposed to be bad? Smite for Psykers right?

[raw steppe]

ya smite for psykers bad, bible for zealot bad

[pure chasm]

damage beats CC, but damage isn't always immediately available for a variety of reasons and buying time for teammates to reload or charge up in a dangerous situation can be extremely valuable

[south spindle]

All i ever see from Smiters is people sat in a corner spamming it at poxwalkers an the odd Rager, this has been the case throughout pugs since P13 dropped, its fuckin dogwater when they could just be wiping stuff faster

[spark helm]

It's wrong on all counts aside from it not doing dmg but for what's is supposed to accomplish it does spectatularly.

[raw steppe]

anything that doesnt do damage is bad

[spark helm]

I guess.

[raw steppe]

tbh I think your problem is probably you're playing on too low difficulty

[south spindle]

Again, strawman argument

[pure chasm]

yesterday i played a histg match on carnival and we got attacked by like six crushers
the zealot popped bible and it gave me time to start killing the crushers

[untold root]

is there a way to make vet less boring

[raw steppe]

in auric maels and auric histg I never see people do that lol

[south spindle]

I literally only play Auric Maelstrom, so uhh.. no?

[spark helm]

make risky high interactive builds

[south prairie]

To be fair if you exclusively play auric damnation and you go pug thats on you lmao

[spark helm]

depends on what's not "boring" to you tbh.

vet can only get so dynamic

[south spindle]

Not a whole lot of other options when most of the bois all live in different timezones

[untold root]

abilities that feel less samey

[pure chasm]

weapons specialist and agile engagement

[spark helm]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[umbral scaffold]

Get back in the fight does proc on firebombs right?

[spark helm]

You're better off getting off of veteran unless right tree builds don't appeal to you.

[south prairie]

Again, thats on you. You know what youre getting into

[south spindle]

I do, i do indeed.

[spark helm]

Maybe changing your guns otherwise, no sarcasm, play another class.

Much more dynamic classes comparatively.

[flat agate]

Is there way for plasma to get +2 ammo per elite kill? So far it gives only one with 76% ammo

[south spindle]

Same thing you get into with trying to find lobbies in this discord, usually useless fucks who dont know what the hell they're doing

[untold root]

the build im thinking i could do works on zealot, but i want to find some use for vet

[spark helm]

What's your idea?

[untold root]

imo, vet is the worst class right now

[spark helm]

It's not but go on.

[untold root]

bolter and dclaw

[terse idol]

Naw

Hell naw

VoC vet slaaps

And weapon spec

[raw steppe]

lol not even close

[spark helm]

I don't use boltor but you could probably get some mileage using a smaller gun.

[terse idol]

Focus uhhhhhhhhg

[raw steppe]

vet will always be on top as long as scav exists

[terse idol]

We need to kill scav

[raw steppe]

scav singlehandedly breaks the game

[terse idol]

Frfr

[raw steppe]

in so many ways

at the highest level

[untold root]

even if its not the worst, its the most boring, its focused on a useless ability that idek what it does, or support

[spark helm]

Veteran is the cornerstone of this game's design space. fatshark would have to somehow fundamentally rehaspe the game to really challenge vet's ability to not be worth playing/a lot of work to play to the point of it not being fun.

[terse idol]

Whaat

Weapon spec enables revolver

Or well

Revolver is already pretty good, weapon spec makes it spicy

[untold root]

what does the base f and its upgrade even do

[pure chasm]

god ws+revolver is so much fun

[tall torrent]

this is very true

[spark helm]

if you read it properly it does a lot.

[untold root]

i switch to my ranged weapon immediately and... what?

[spark helm]

you shoot your gun, have better gunplay and overall dps.

[terse idol]

Weapon spec makes it so you gain stacks on melee kills up to 10, and when you swap to your ranged weapon you get added damage and crit chance depending on how many stacks you got

[pure chasm]

are u even lvl 30

[terse idol]

You gotta try some of the keystones

[spark helm]

it's not all that flashy sure but it's literally so powerful it's not really much to scoff at.

[terse idol]

Because they're actually good

[untold root]

i got vet to level 5 and just got bored, the abilities and grenades are lame to the point that id rather play zealot for guns

[terse idol]

Second I'm gonna say it but people say that alot of vets aren't using keystones but even on the darktide blessings website

Some of the highest rated builds include them

[spark helm]

Save yourself the trouble. If you're genuinely not enjoying a class regardless of efficacy, just try another one dude.

[terse idol]

Bruh

[untold root]

theres not much i can see to look forward to in vet, the guns are usable by other classes and the abilities are just, bad

[terse idol]

How you gonna judge an entire classes line

Before getting 30

[raw steppe]

bro LOL

i have no words

if you got bored then just dont play

[terse idol]

At least I have a 30 zealot and a 30 vet

[raw steppe]

but why are you acting like you know anything

[pure chasm]

hasn't unlocked anything
"why don't i have anything"

[spark helm]

nothing to really get salty at, bro isn't interested in the class so that's that.

[terse idol]

With a 19 psyker and 18 ogryn

[untold root]

thats kinda the problem, vet doesnt geel good to play, vet feels like it got the shaft

[raw steppe]

then don't play it

[terse idol]

It... doesn't

You need to actually get the first upgrade

[untold root]

its not even that i dont have anything, its that there isnt much to get

[spark helm]

it really didn't. you're just not interested in the class and that's fine.

[terse idol]

Before you judg

[raw steppe]

then dont play it

[gilded rock]

Bro isn't even high enough level to try the other two abilities and calling them bad

But I feel you, veteran early game feels like call of duty man but you're not a protagonist

[raw steppe]

if you want to be vegan, just dont eat meat; you don't need to come here and blast everyone saying "FUCK U ALL MEAT EATERS"

just be vegan and be happy lol

[untold root]

i want to find some use or redeeming quality so i play every class, but vets just kinda shit to be

[pure chasm]

i have some of the most fun on vet out of any of my classes thanks to weapons specialist

[tall torrent]

I think u should give vet a bit more time and try his other abilities first but if u really hate vet early game, it's understandable because his good talents are pretty late unlocks

[pure chasm]

insanely fast and fluid playstyle

[untold root]

im trying to ask you guys if any of the later guns do give it a purpose, a use, or if it stays like thsi fthe whole time

[gilded rock]

My happiness on veteran after going from any of their beginning weapons to bolter was 📈📈

[tall torrent]

it gets much much better later on

[pure chasm]

plasma is pretty fuckin sick too

[fallen belfry]

plasmagun is something else, I am in love with it, so satisfying

[untold root]

when is later on, level 10? level 14?

[gusty sonnet]

No, vet has a lot of good stuffed locked at the bottom, so he will feel better at late levels

[gilded rock]

Bolter is fun, helbore is fun, plasma is apparently fun, I have heard a couple of other guns are fun but haven't tried

[fallen belfry]

idk man, but sure as shit not level 5

[tall torrent]

pretty late, I think u need like 20+

but lv30 is literally the "starting point" for a class

[pure chasm]

the classes definitely really come into their own once you can start getting proper gear at lvl30 yeah

[tall torrent]

so I would not rush to conclusions

[untold root]

that is precisely my problem with veteran, until i reach the point im already at on my favorite class, it feels bad to play

[fallen belfry]

everything is gonna feel bad to play compared to a fully levelled/geared char, that's not surprising

[untold root]

its not that theres nothing to get to, im certain there is something, but its that getting to that point just sucks and i could do something else, i feel like vet got the short straw in terms of progression

[fallen belfry]

your issue is that you're level 5, not that you're playing vet

[terse idol]

I'm sorry but vet is a gun dependant class

[tall torrent]

I mean, u don't have to play vet if u really hate his kit
u can always revisit him later down the line when u feel like it

[terse idol]

You didn't even get the weapons

Because you didn't even try to play vet

🥹

[gusty sonnet]

Vet will pop off at lvl 18, you have access to IW and CDR on special kill

[pure chasm]

it is literally the class based on guns

or you can be like me and use the melee more

[untold root]

once more, thats the entire problem, theres not much until i get way, way far in, and at that point i could enjoy zealot or psyker

none of the early weapons feel good imo, it was nice getting a new perspective from you guys but i reckon ill stick with the other three

thanks fellas

[pure chasm]

okay i have 2 questions

1. are you lvl 30 on any class
2. do you have very little time per day or week to play

if the answer to #2 is yes then yeah absolutely do what's the most fun for you
if you have a fair amount of time then maybe give it a shot

[untold root]

i have 4+ hours to play often, and i bounce around from class to class to keep stuff diverse, my highest character is a level 20 psyker

[outer mulch]

been getting error code 2014s a lot

[south prairie]

Confirmation bias in play, like how most of the people i see who say they play auric damnation turn out to be the biggest whingers in the server

[tall torrent]

Ok, I’d say get your other classes levelled up and maybe revisit veteran later down the line when you feel like it

[pure chasm]

okay because lvl30 endgame with proper gear feels completely different from the leveling process
so just take your time and do what you want

[untold root]

the problem is that i dont think i ever will, his early kit is abysmal and boring

[raw steppe]

i'm like 90% sure that most of the people who bitch don't even play aurics

[junior grail]

Only a sith deals in absolutes... jk

[outer mulch]

finally got all the vet penances include the redacted ones. am i allowed to retire now?

[raw steppe]

I should ask for time played screenshot

[south spindle]

On paper its weaker, in practice not really. It ties with Zealot for balance, but it does have an expensive tree and thusly people percieve it as weaker, even when in reality, its very much not weak

[tall torrent]

My suggestion is to run games with a couple friends who help u through the early levels to make it less boring

[south prairie]

Plasma is definitely fun, do you not get a rush of euphoria when one shot makes a line through a horde

[pure chasm]

I'll be honest I didn't have that much fun with vet either starting out, but I spent the whole leveling process playing with a friend so it wasn't too bad

[fallen belfry]

i've recently started levelling psyker and low level psyker is miserable, but i've seen what level 30 psykers can do and am looking forwards to it when I get there

[untold root]

its not even that, all his gear and abilities blur together, its boring

[south prairie]

Thats just what i saw, they say auric this and that and the bunch have the most issues with things

[gilded rock]

Haven't tried but it seems like a blast

[untold root]

i actually disagree, early psyker was my favorite early game so far, even above ogryn

[fallen belfry]

pretty much same on any class, just kinda silly to be judging a class on how it plays at level 5 in this game

[gilded rock]

I like bolter because high single target plus horde management and some suppression in a pinch

[south prairie]

Oh it is the bomb

[south spindle]

Then play other classes. Though word of warning, Ogg an Psyker are likely to see nerfs over the next few patches due to how strong they can be

[raw steppe]

like for example- this guy who leveled his vet to 5; his highest character is a lv20 psyker

he hasnt even played the game yet

[pure chasm]

properly built psyker staves are fking crazy lol
ive had a couple games with over 1mil damage because of it

[strange cosmos]

Current vet is trash... worst toon to play. Used to be the best. But lack of imagination makes a Vet a weak version of ogryn.. and really weak version of a Zealot.

[south spindle]

Oggy is way stronger than Zealot at the moment

[strange cosmos]

I see Psykers with sword and pistol do better

[fallen belfry]

i've seen it myself, some crazy psykers carrying lobbies while I was relearning my vet, a ton of potential

[untold root]

im playing the game all the time, what im saying is vet doesnt have much to look forward too imo, and even if it did its so boring to get there idk how any of you did

[raw steppe]

if that was what you said, then sure

but you said "in my opinion vet is the worst class in the game"

[untold root]

yes, its horrible to me

[south spindle]

Yes, because a lot of Psyker's kit is wildly overtuned at the moment, same for Ogg

[raw steppe]

which is expressly different from "hey guys, what is there to look forward to for vet?"

[untold root]

it has nothing to look forward too, weak melee, and is boring as shit

[terse idol]

But

Melee is as strong as zealot

[strange cosmos]

We will be getting a buff to the power sword.

[terse idol]

Weapon spec slaps

[south prairie]

To be fair, the boy came from psyker

[south spindle]

Thats so not happening lol

[terse idol]

We got some of the strongest melee weapons in the game

[tall torrent]

Veteran melee is not as weak as u think

[south spindle]

If anything, its getting nerfed again

[soft hound]

Thats an objective statement from someone without enough experience to give an informed opinion. That's why you're getting shit on by an entire server.

[atomic zephyr]

weak melee
voie of command and power sword

[untold root]

ive played all 4 classes, psyker is the best, then ogryn, then zealot, and then vet

[raw steppe]

I actually think psyker is probably the most overpowered class if you only play sedition and malice; and probably the weakest in histg aurics

[terse idol]

If anything the truth is the PS6 is gonna get nerfed

Because that's how good it is

[south prairie]

Take it from vet starter, vet is a late bloomer class

[white minnow]

i doubt the pswords are getting a buff

[terse idol]

👍

[south spindle]

Weakest if you're prone to taking a lot of hits, mad strong if you leverage its kit properly

[tall torrent]

A Rashad axe that hits every breakpoint is VERY STRONG and vet gets to reach them easier than zealot

[terse idol]

Very true now

[atomic zephyr]

powerswords are not getting a buff lmao

[pure chasm]

assail spam in low difficulties

[fallen belfry]

hey guys, listen, he's an expert, he's levelled all the way to 20 on one class and played like 3 games on the others before they can even unlock difficulty 3 of 5. we should all listen to his experience.

[atomic zephyr]

rashad axe my beloved <3

[soft hound]

If you don't have all four at 30 your opinion on balance is tenuous at best.

[south prairie]

It feels...vanilla at first, and the best stuff are down in the bottom and when you hit 30 you will start having fun

[terse idol]

We just trying to be positive let's chiiill

[strange cosmos]

Next update... however i dont mind being wrong. Finger crossed

[raw steppe]

that sounds so fun ngl

[untold root]

idrgaf if i get insulted and shit on, i just dont like vet, and i thought asking the channel full of veterans could give me some idea to look forward to, but instead its just telling me that a lot of late game vets are dicsk

[raw steppe]

i wish i started playing

after patch13

so i can be a noob

[terse idol]

Whaat

[raw steppe]

psyker

with assail

[terse idol]

I thought dis was trying to be civil

[raw steppe]

in malice

[terse idol]

Hell I'm trying to convince you to play vet more than just level 5

[pure chasm]

it oneshots everything, hits so many breakpoints at difficulty 3 and below
once u hit difficulty 4 it instantly feels worse because it stops oneshotting

[untold root]

i hardly even use assail, i use purg and head pop

[old pike]

If you like Vet before level 30 you're probably a masochist tbf

[soft hound]

But that's NOT what you asked. You came in and said 'vet is shit' not, 'vet feels like shit, how do I improve'

[terse idol]

Because with the new keystones Vet starts later

[atomic zephyr]

i mean, walking into the veteran chat and telling them veterans are bad is not going to get you help

[soft hound]

FFS

[terse idol]

I will say the vet leveling experience is harder now

[south spindle]

Guaranteed crits, free damage, overshields, wallhacks, stacking damage buffs, grenade regen... its a pretty strong class if you actually invest the time to get past level 5

[terse idol]

Because we get power spikes later

[tall torrent]

Idk if this is “exciting enough” for u

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/985983134275366943/1178551591800942592/Warhammer_40000_Darktide_2023.11.26_-_23.21.22.01.mp4?ex=65768eb3&is=656419b3&hm=41d4ef092e20dc8c7e9852ee630381022f1a68f5cf2ea886ce22e1fe444a7dd5&

[south prairie]

He tries but he has skill issues

[terse idol]

But try to enjoy your guns

[strange cosmos]

Vet lvl 30 with powersword etc..

[atomic zephyr]

voice of command!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[raw steppe]

my goal is to call people dumbasses without directly doing that

gotta do it subtly

to skirt the rules

and not get banned

[terse idol]

Yep mud's right

[atomic zephyr]

also stealth vet is fun

[pure chasm]

agile engagement my beloved

[south prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/gordon-ramsay-donkey-idiot-bitch-gif-4653529

[white minnow]

oh wait this is vet chat

[untold root]

my whole problem is that its boring to get there, almost impossible without getting bored out of my mind

[terse idol]

I will say even Vets weakest keystone (focus) is still serviceable

[raw steppe]

go home ur lost

[white minnow]

thought this was psyker

[vital saddle]

🍿

[tall torrent]

Play with friends, helps quite a bit

[atomic zephyr]

to get there, ok i guess that's fair

[untold root]

im going to stick with my other classes, thanks for the smidge of advice, adios

[atomic zephyr]

bruh lmao

[terse idol]

But isn't that the same with zealot?
I can break down early game zealot as just

hit things with axe till level 15

[soft hound]

Cya!

[terse idol]

Vet is just shoot things t9ll level 15

[south spindle]

Pretty much

[raw steppe]

tag or headshot?

[south spindle]

Early game balancing be early game balancing

[raw steppe]

both are actually decent I think

[terse idol]

Headshot focus talent

[south spindle]

You're not meant to feel super OP when you start

[terse idol]

I mean

[pure chasm]

left capstone feels awful to me

[terse idol]

Yeah yeah

[atomic zephyr]

marksmans focus is definitely the weakest but like
columnus iag.

[terse idol]

Its not that bad

[untold root]

not really, the super dynamic movement, even if simple, of zealots base f is really nice, and he feels built for melee out of the gate with decent toughness and good stamina, but vet just, doesnt

[atomic zephyr]

literally just use that its so easy

[pure chasm]

i move around too much for it

[vital saddle]

laughs in early psyker till crusher comes

[south spindle]

Dont fall into the trap beleiving you cant move, if you can hit heads, you're nearly always profiting regardless of if you're moving or not

[terse idol]

Well because it's built around shooting things really good which fair

I mean I hope you give vet another... shot

[untold root]

early vet doesnt feel like hes built to do really anything, its a slate too blank

[raw steppe]

if you run plasma shout; which usually has issues hitting breakpoints, focus lets you hit every single elite/special BP in the game with like 4-5 stacks

[vital saddle]

and u get overheaded while using deimos

[raw steppe]

that's quite strong

[terse idol]

[pure chasm]

i do have a columnus, ill have to give it another shot

[terse idol]

Because the plasmagun is actually very fun

[south prairie]

I mean if bro is lvl5 hes only gonna have access to grenades

[pure chasm]

tbf deimos can do the funny knockdown on crushers

[untold root]

honestly, i gotta respect the pun

[raw steppe]

here u go, shovel grenade and laspistol

enjoy

[terse idol]

[south spindle]

Think of it as rewarding accuracy instead of punishing movement an you'll enjoy it much more, an get a lot more value out of it. Though admittedly the tooltip wording is super unclear about how it works which has thrown a lot of people off

[pure chasm]

i see
yeah it definitely threw me off

[soft hound]

Par for the course.

[terse idol]

I will be fair and say, I went with Vet because I larp as a guardsmen, maybe I would have dropped it too but being able to use these iconic guns
Las guns, plasmaguns

Its worth it

the shovel

[soft hound]

I wanted one thing from this game: lasguns that felt good

And goddamnit I got them.

[south spindle]

Literally, Fatshark has some issues with communication between the localization team and the combat designers

[untold root]

my problem is that even at level 5, none of my paths seem like a good idea

[atomic zephyr]

what makes you think that?

[terse idol]

You won't know till you get there, I'll say as much

[untold root]

im being given 3 samey, boring options and none stand out, smokes suck according to everything ive been hearing, and the other 2 are just grenade variants

[terse idol]

Voice of command out of the box really gives you that feeling of being a Sgt or commisar

[south prairie]

To be fair, you ARE level 5

[atomic zephyr]

krak is fucking amazing

[terse idol]

Well okay to be fair

[south spindle]

Smokes dont suck, they're just less valuable for the most part compared to the other two choices

[terse idol]

Smokes are fine

[spark helm]

dude, either play the class or don't

[soft hound]

Krak kills

[south prairie]

I personally take tactical reload and krak nades

[atomic zephyr]

i love the shredder nades too actually

[terse idol]

Krak grenade has the ability to kill all crushers and maulers

[fallen belfry]

anyways, doomsaying aside, i've been trying to figure out how to spend my talent points on my vet for a plasma/sword build, this is what i'm thinking so far, any obvious mistakes/must have talents i'm missing out on?

https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9ab7635e-a414-44f6-a1e9-66b7742b3f93/victus-v1

[south prairie]

Krak oneshots heavies

[atomic zephyr]

i run a plasma grenadier build with every single grenade talent and its really fucking funny

[untold root]

the problem is that its all grenades, its only grenades

[pure chasm]

i had a vet yesterday that seemed to have every grenade-related talent and was using smokes, bro was chucking smokes down at every opportunity so much so that it felt like a fog map LMFAO

[south spindle]

Multiple infact if they're all stacked up

[terse idol]

I use a plasma build with VOC and Shredder

[vital saddle]

still happens to early psyker players tho 😄

[spark helm]

what's the point in constantly reading about shit you haven't experienced that isn't going to come close to actually harming you. If you don't actually enjoy the class do not put yourself through it if you're already that uninterested.

[untold root]

zealot as example, sure you get 2 grenades, effective but simple, BUT you could take knives

[terse idol]

Well yeah, but that's the same with zealot, bar the knife

[atomic zephyr]

to be fair, what other throwables would a soldier type use?

[terse idol]

The smoke is a utility

[pure chasm]

zealot knife is kinda goated fr tho

[terse idol]

Same as Krak

[south spindle]

Its pretty good for sure

[terse idol]

Krak is a god send

[pure chasm]

headshotting gunners and ragers with the knife is so satisfying

[untold root]

some form or bladed or bludgeoning thrown object, or not a throwable at all and instead something more interesting

[spark helm]

zealot knives aren't that interesting to me but they work.

[soft hound]

Better than yeeting a frag at a special you can only see with volley?

[indigo needle]

damn, someone trying to teach me the art of the recon build

[terse idol]

I would probably suggest using the smoke grenade

[untold root]

just hte option of knives is so much better than just "three grenades, pick one"

[atomic zephyr]

now that i think about it, a C4 charge would be neat.

[terse idol]

Okay step one

Put down the recon

Step 2

Pick up a better gun

🥹

[soft hound]

Truth

[atomic zephyr]

lol recon got shafted with shock trooper change

[terse idol]

It got nerfed last patch I'm sorry

[south spindle]

They're excellent to support weapons with longer reloads because of their one shot kill potential, great on shotgun/revolver builds

[indigo needle]

no no theres a ability where you don't use ammo for las crit hits

[pure chasm]

i mostly use kraks and stealth/voc so i got no idea haha

[untold root]

thats what im talking about, sure there are a few basic options BUT you could take this cool, interesting but perhaps less effective option to make it more fun

[vital saddle]

ill use smokes when they put survivalist the same side as it 😄 or at least make it so your not punished for blitz choice at least

[atomic zephyr]

i got a fucking BEAUTIFUL VId lasgun the DAY BEFORE they changed shock trooper.

im never going to live it down

[gusty sonnet]

Just play columnus

[indigo needle]

so if you max you crits, you do damage

[gusty sonnet]

Trust

[terse idol]

Its better with slower firing weapons
Recon lasgun will blast through because they changed crit chains on the recon

[tall torrent]

We need an overcharged lasgun battery pack as a “grenade”

[terse idol]

You will run out of ammo

[spark helm]

yeah i've experienced it, I just do different stuff more of the time. When I'm really in the mood for it I take it every time.

[terse idol]

No the crit chain thing doesn't work because they nerfed it

[soft hound]

Three pointing a sniper behind cover is almost as good as RöcK

[terse idol]

You will run out of ammo on recon

[indigo needle]

nani

[terse idol]

Its very sad

[south spindle]

Ye thats fair

[atomic zephyr]

yeah shock trooper only returns ammo on the first round of a crit chain

[indigo needle]

why

[pure chasm]

an EMP grenade of sorts would be really cool i think

[terse idol]

I dunno

FS hates the recon

[atomic zephyr]

fatshark detected vets having fun

[spark helm]

I've been doing knife throwing in fps games for so long it only takes me so far with powerfantasies.

[terse idol]

They chose to nerf crit chains and reduce some other things because the recon was actually getting good

Now its garbo

[vital saddle]

smoke nades are honestly fine tho its the position of them that suck

[indigo needle]

i enjoyed my krieg skin, is that why they flattened the chest pouch?

[south spindle]

Recon's issues are compounded by the low TTK on Maniacs pretty badly ngl, if it takes more rounds to kill, you're gonna run out faster and with the volume of maniac type enemies in higher settings, that means running dry really fuckin fast even with Shocktrooper

[gusty sonnet]

They probably nerfed recons because they overperformed in low diff is my guess

[atomic zephyr]

i dunno i never bought that, probably

[elder vessel]

me gun is done

[atomic zephyr]

beautiful

[terse idol]

You will never maintain infinite ammo with recon lasgun

And thats the sad truth

[pure chasm]

lmfao im usually a support main i dont get to have fun with such things nearly as often 🫡

[terse idol]

You're better using a las gun because you will gurantee a fast ttk

[south spindle]

I think it was because they were deleting Crushers tbh

[terse idol]

And always have ammo

[elder vessel]

also got this from melk

[south spindle]

But that was more of a Rending issue than the guns themselves

[elder vessel]

didnt consult anyone when i got it though

[fallen belfry]

hopefully this is the right channel for build questions, didn't see another one for vets, sorry if in wrong place

[hollow turtle]

[gusty sonnet]

Then they'd have gutted onslaught, kinda like they nerfed shroudfield and not THammer

[terse idol]

Itss not the best

The numbers are good but the blessings aren't that good

[raw steppe]

the problem with shout plasma vet is that it has some trouble hitting elite BPs (meaning you have to shoot twice to kill everything); marksman focus is really good bcz it lets you one-shot all elites/specials with 4-5 stacks

[spark helm]

it has its charm depending on the presentation for me mostly. I'd rather do knife throwing in something like d2 compared to this game or maybe titanfall 2 but even that's just one way for to play when there's many other things that are just more fun to me.

[south spindle]

You'd think, but Fatshark balancing is all over the place at the minute

[spark helm]

Doesn't matter if it's efficient or not, doing it for the self-cool point anyway.

[indigo needle]

ngl, the lasgun ia is pretty gun for headshots

[south spindle]

They're trying, but they make a lot of questionable decisions

[indigo needle]

its like the vraks headhunter but with more rounds

[terse idol]

I mean I picked up the Columnus iag yesterday

And holy shiiiiit

With dum dum being bugged

[pure chasm]

columnus is so sexy

[south prairie]

Yea columnus iag is turbo as fuuuuck

[terse idol]

This shit is crazy

[south spindle]

Columnus is another example of questionable balancing

[vital saddle]

goes brrr

[terse idol]

Frankly because it's so strong I might never run my plasma again

[south spindle]

I dont think it provides more value than Plasma, but its certainly mad strong

[fallen belfry]

i've found with the maniac perk on my plasma, i'm able to one shot most specials and elites, and two shot maulers/reapers, but yeah, before I shuffled my perks around a bit, I was leaving things like bombers at 5% health after the first shot

[terse idol]

Well yeahh

[indigo needle]

Agripinaa gang

[terse idol]

I feel like the ammo consumption and ttk just almost beats kt

Oh man

[gusty sonnet]

Plasma and columnus fill different niches

[vital saddle]

plas still goated and being like is that a sniper over there not anymore

[astral blade]

focus target is probs vets best keystone

[south prairie]

I ran it as my prime mob clearing tool and it does very well, although it does be hungering for ammo because of how turbo it is

[raw steppe]

@fallen belfry here's my suggestion for a shout plasma build that is able to hit one-shot BPs on everything- this is the one I'm using:

[raw steppe]

yep but you're gonna be leaving gunners at like 50-100hp

[south spindle]

Its the cleave ngl, delete a gunner squad running around a corner an like 30 other trash dudes in the way

[raw steppe]

meaning you have to shoot twice

instead of once

[south prairie]

Tfw you charge it and nail the bastard through the wall

[terse idol]

I also enjoy the columnus because I can shoot into hordes and not feel bad because every poxwalker goes down in 2-3 bullets in a 57 round magazine

Like mannn

[south spindle]

Plus Plasma with Weap'Spec' is crazy value because you dont have to give up melee damage for huge breakpoints

[vital saddle]

find wall shooting very sketchy with plas nowadays

[terse idol]

Okay maybe I try plasma weapon spec

Gurantee a crit...

[astral blade]

Do y’all think focus target is veterans best keystone?

[vital saddle]

mid and left are both good

[south spindle]

Yeah you got it, easy to leverage too because the draw time is super short

[fallen belfry]

hmm, that's a problem, yeah, I'll have to test on gunners, thanks for the advice, it's really hard to keep in mind all the breakpoints and whatnot haha

[terse idol]

I think Weapon spec is the best 😌

[vital saddle]

just depends if ur using a headshot weapon or not

[south prairie]

True, i usually just go full charge if im certain theres just 1 wall between us

[indigo needle]

the only downside is you gotta tag everything during battle

[raw steppe]

there's 2 gunner types; 1200hp and 1400hp ones, ideally you want to be able to clear a room just 1-shotting both types

[vital saddle]

can do some pretty interesting shit with collumus or gria with markman's focus

[raw steppe]

saves you a lot of ammo and time

[south spindle]

Still not sold on the Graia, its deffo better now, but ehhh

Maybe i just need to run it more

[vital saddle]

just a slightly better sniping collumus

[south prairie]

One thing i recommend you to try, get behind a beast of nurgle at close range and unload into weakspot. It will make you all tingly

[terse idol]

[vital saddle]

with 2 less ammo pickup ;D

[fallen belfry]

i've had trouble figuring out exactly what benefit the 7.5% 'finesse' actually provides on the focus keystone

[elder vessel]

plasma/sword bro there are so many swords in this game

[fallen belfry]

is it headshot damage?

[tall torrent]

That’s weakspot & crit dmg

[terse idol]

Frankly I think Survivalist should work on the inverse, because it's really good at filling weapons with high max ammo count

My hottest take

[tall torrent]

Both are increased

[fallen belfry]

fair, dclaw

[south prairie]

If yiu have enough space to magdump before it aggros, the sight of hp bar disintegrating is just MMM

[terse idol]

😌

[stuck bridge]

Finesse is headshot and crit damage

[vital saddle]

only reason i dont like using markman's focus is losing out on demo team iron will tac awarness

[raw steppe]

7.5% finesse = 7.5 crit damage and 7.5 weakspot damage

[vital saddle]

just not worth the trade off

when u can hit so many easy bp with focus target stacks

[tall torrent]

However
Weakspot dmg calculation is bad in this game

And u should not take weakpoint dmg unless it gives u very specific breakpoints u care abt

[vital saddle]

but cant say that having suppression immunity doesnt help tho 😄

[shell widget]

Tbh I do that constantly as is, mostly cuz I have a shit time seeing in the dark. I'm like a T-Rex

[south prairie]

Suppression immunity only really shines when youre staring down gunners i feel

[fallen belfry]

yeah, my goal was to come up with a build that has as many of the valuable defensive nodes as possible sacrificing as little as possible to do so

[vital saddle]

when using collumnus ur staring at anything that moves

and going brrrr

[fallen belfry]

I know I can free up another 1 point by using frag instead of krak and i'm really torn on that

[shell widget]

Which is honestly worth it in itself, plus against the ranged mobs it's nice for too

[south prairie]

Not like that i meant having a hail of gunfire bearing down on yo ass

[stuck bridge]

Kraks are overated

[indigo needle]

good for headshots

[south prairie]

To be honest, i always grab it whenever i go left tree

[vital saddle]

again i always do due to running in solo gunning everything down 😄

[fallen belfry]

yeah it's like, in practice, i'm finding the kraks are only really useful against monstrosities, because it's usually faster to just plasma the specials/elites otherwise, krak feel a bit redundant

[indigo needle]

i love marksman focus for the goal of keeping the ability going as long as i can also seeing my screen covered in yellow is funny

[south prairie]

would you stop it and just say you got me

[indigo needle]

only i see the horrors that await us

[fallen belfry]

but I'm not sure if that's just because I haven't really learned to use them as often as I could to save ammo

[vital saddle]

just gotta decide on my build to either take volley adept, kill zone, vanguard or get back in the fight for my markman focus build

[frank ether]

thats called plasma

you become the grenade

[indigo needle]

psyker grenade when

[tall torrent]

They should add a 4th lasgun line where the special action has u waste an entire mag worth of ammo but throw it at the enemy for aoe dmg

[terse idol]

Ah yeah, I wouldn't take Krak if you're doing VoC and plasma

[indigo needle]

i think the gun would explode

[vital saddle]

what u guys think i should take between those talents btw?

[frank ether]

have recon do that so it serves a purpose

[terse idol]

Shredder fills in your horde clear muuuch better

[tall torrent]

As in, throw a battery pack, not throw the gun itself

[vital saddle]

shovel requests ur location

brrrrr

[fallen belfry]

I was kinda thinking that might be the case, it'd save a point too, just unsure what to best do with that freed up point compared to the build I posted so far, not sure how useful 10% rending would be for plasma haha, and the extra weak point damage for 10s seems marginal too

[terse idol]

I did want to try Shovel, but I aint got any of the blessings
And I spent... I think 200k getting Wrath for my Dclaw yesterday

[fallen belfry]

if I could free up 2-3 points, I could reach some really nice stuff

just unsure what if anything I could cut that doesn't help much

[raw steppe]

take a look at the one i posted

and see what you wanna cut

[slow spade]

if I could have 100 points, I'd have the build I wanted uwU

[raw steppe]

from that one

[vital saddle]

Not the best shovel roll but good enough

[terse idol]

The legendary Full talent tree vet with Focus fire, VOC and infiltrate

Yeah I thiink I may need to wait till I get one decimator blesssing before even thinking about getting a shovel warmed up

Eh might be worth it to try

[slow spade]

and somehow, someone will still claim Vet is the "weakest" class UwU

[vital saddle]

For real tho guys volley adept, kill zone, vanguard or get back in the fight for my marksman focus build

[slow spade]

bruh how do I not recognize any of those talents

oh I see why now

[vital saddle]

cuz most of the time u cant reach them 😄

[slow spade]

Kill Zone is shit

[vital saddle]

xD

[swift bear]

anyone in here who is a veteran expert, could you please link me a good veteran build so I don't have to go around looking and buying new weapons all the time?

[spark helm]

It's whatever at this point. Interacted enough with the discord

[stuck bridge]

Decimator is very overrated

[slow spade]

Volley Expert is bad unless Plasma

[indigo needle]

switch krak to frags and watch from a distance

[slow spade]

Vanguard is also shit

[tall torrent]

Kill zone is not good but depending on the gun, opening salvo (talent) is worse

[spark helm]

What u want to do?

[tall torrent]

Vanguard is only good for very specific builds

And u take vanguard for out for blood, not for vanguard

[vital saddle]

basically just flipping my support helbore build to collumnus build so i have to take away shocktrooper and put it somewhere else 😄

[swift bear]

Well... everyone always talks about how OP lasgun builds are so, that would be cool to do.

[slow spade]

you will be pleased to know that literally none of those talents are good UwU

[tall torrent]

Modify based on what you need

[stuck bridge]

Devils claw sword of choice. I like mk4

Plasma

Frags

Ammo aura

Voice of command

Combat specialist

[gusty sonnet]

Taking focus target but none of the modifier nodes 🤨

[vital saddle]

dont really get how this helps me considering the build is completely different to that in the first place as it uses left side tree

[tall torrent]

Oh nvm

[fallen belfry]

Yeah I have it open now Dis, am comparing side by side with mine, but it seems like it's giving up several defensive/support talents in exchange for the left keystone which i'm struggling to evaluate, I might try a tweaked version of what you posted that takes the left keystone to help with breakpoints but doesn't make some of the substitutions you suggested (free grenades 5% of the time, stun immune on toughness break)

[slow spade]

here's the most general Vet build I can think of

[indigo needle]

builds are based on weapons

[raw steppe]

try it out in the meat grinder IMO

[slow spade]

virtually every gun will work with this build

[raw steppe]

and make the tweaks after

[tall torrent]

I think Columnus IAG needs onslaught on right tree tbh

[fallen belfry]

yeah, I get off work in 20 mins, I think i'm at the point of needing to test out breakpoints

[vital saddle]

I'm very much aware of this

[slow spade]

Columbus is fine without Onslaught

[swift bear]

What melee weapon and gun should I use?

[slow spade]

just don't shoot Carapace

[fallen belfry]

it's tough to evaluate defensive nodes in the meat grinder though

or team support ones

[vital saddle]

i just prefer to not double up on builds with 1 minor change as i like using nade nodes a lot

[brisk umbra]

^

[slow spade]

I use Psword + plasma

But strictly speaking any gun will work with this build

[brisk umbra]

Honestly, focus target works with everything

and it's just chill, you just need to remember to spam pings

[tall torrent]

Maybe this

[raw steppe]

Do you want to shoot more? Do you want to stab more? Do you want to aim for heads or shoot brainlessly?

[swift bear]

I want to shoot brainlessly but if I am closer I am fine with aiming 🙂

[spark helm]

Devil claws, power swords, Chai swords, knives and shovels are all solid choices

[slow spade]

the best part about the build I posted is its all "damage" buff talents so it works with melee and ranged

just don't pick chainaxe and recon

[swift bear]

Shovels look hilarious and people always laugh when I see a shovel

So that's fun!

[raw steppe]

ooh boy; I got a fun one for you then-

[spark helm]

They're good too

[brisk umbra]

this is my favorite build lately, just use the agrippina brauto and never go melee

[vital saddle]

ill just link my tree just checking melk a sec

[frank ether]

they make a funny bonk sound

[slow spade]

I like how its almost the exact same build just slight differences

thank you Fatshark

[frank ether]

shovel bis because of bonk

[indigo needle]

comrade

[frank ether]

bonk factor important

[spark helm]

Shovels just feel good.

[vital saddle]

then chainsword block second

[brisk umbra]

I mean, honestly, Focus Target is the chilliest thing in existence, and to get that+Survivalist you have like 3 points left

[spark helm]

Definitely keeping an eye for a solid one to gamble rolls. Working on a power sword now because I finally got power cycler.

[vital saddle]

cuz if u have bloodletter carapace dmg u can 2 rev crushers

[brisk umbra]

ye 3 points precise

[slow spade]

yeah Fatshark really shafted the Vet's skill tree

its really annoying

[brisk umbra]

honestly, at this point i would even take them gutting Survivalist

[slow spade]

at least the builds posted above are "general" so you're not stuck using a Kantreal for like 99% of games

[brisk umbra]

so at least you're not forced to go for that every time

[fallen belfry]

@raw steppe How about this? Accepts the changes to use the left keystone without the other non-damage relevant changes I didn't quite get on board with, sorta a combination of what I had and your suggestion: https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9ab7635e-a414-44f6-a1e9-66b7742b3f93/victus-v2

[raw steppe]

@swift bear My fav brainless vet build- You just tag stuff and kill it. You don't need headshots because of brauto, and you have tons of damage and tons of toughness recovery.

very easy to play

and i've cleared a lot of histg aurics with it

[slow spade]

interesting you didn't go for Grenade Tinkerer for bigger boom

[old quail]

get that fkin twinned blast off there and get field improv u sick fuck

[indigo needle]

so... we pretend the weapon specialist keystone doesn't exist?

[brisk umbra]

i prefer agrippina over the columnus for mindleness

better pierce

[raw steppe]

go for it then lol

colum runs faster

[terse idol]

Whaat noo

[vital saddle]

This is my silly helbore VoC build ive been playing around with

[slow spade]

doesn't field improv fuck up medkits due to restoring toughness too?

[terse idol]

Its very good for hard hitting ranged weapons

[raw steppe]

agri brauto is great

[terse idol]

Like revolver

[brisk umbra]

Weapon Specialist is op with plasma and Revolver, if you don't use either weapons you can honestly forget it exists

[vital saddle]

so pretty much to make it work for any other gun that isnt las i have 1 point free to change to something else in these lines

[raw steppe]

LOL twinned blast is so trash

but so fun

[brisk umbra]

Plus, the attack speed on it makes at least for me the PS6 feel like shit

[raw steppe]

it's actually a 29 point build

[swift bear]

nice! What blessings to go for?

[old quail]

i have never ran into any problems with field improv

[terse idol]

You can do some wacky things with it and it's a really unique playstyle

[slow spade]

twinned blast on Krak just to be extra sure UwU

[slow spade]

na I asked as I wasn't sure

[old quail]

corruption heal good in the world of silent bursters around corners

[slow spade]

thats just what I heard

[fallen belfry]

humm... weapon specialist sounds fun, I just can't get the passives in the left and center trees I want while taking it T.T

[old quail]

ive never experienced the toughness regen fucking with medkit healing

[raw steppe]

i have FF/Hit&Run, but it doesn't really matter; just whatever you want

[terse idol]

Right weapon tree actively makes you thing about when to swap weapons

[slow spade]

ah ok, I wish I had points to spare to get it :c

Fatshark pls

[brisk umbra]

always the same, deathspitter and fire frenzy

[terse idol]

I will say, just be the hero and don't take survivalist

[spark helm]

rest of it is taking the keystone and toughness gen addon for the build. uses la intantry and whatever melee i'd like. power ssword, chainsword, shovel.

overall heavy generalist with a lean-in on gunplay.

[terse idol]

Its not worth gimping yourself

Someone in this day and age will run it

[maiden trail]

I feel like the vet tree in general needs a total rework that crunches down some of these

[terse idol]

But because we're so point starved

We just gotta let it happen

[slow spade]

oh I'm surprised you didn't get Exhilerating Takedown (its fixed now)

I personally find the toughness damage resist very handy

I can facetank snipers with 2 buffs on

[indigo needle]

remember, don't have too much fun or fatshark will uninstall the vet class entirely

[vital saddle]

im my eyes if u dont take iron will u take takedown 😄

[maiden trail]

What difficulty:P

[slow spade]

I use both because Demo Team doesn't work well with kraks

[slow spade]

Damnation

[maiden trail]

Interesting

[terse idol]

Sheo be running max sniper reduction curios

[fallen belfry]

but I liiiike survivalist XD

it's nice to be ever so slightly less frustrated with ammo greedy teammates and make the whole ammo situation much nicer

[terse idol]

[brisk umbra]

this is what i use on revolver

[slow spade]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046912126746374274/1176576826127159306/Warhammer_40000_Darktide_2023.10.25_-_21.25.42.06.mov?ex=656f5f8f&is=655cea8f&hm=424af6ead22f393b86d9186c93ba98fee32d363c618f234a7fdd13d5a7a53f97&

you don't even need the toughness resist

[spark helm]

I don't care about it for this build. The idea is that I'm putting more prtessure on myself to deal with shooters and the like before any incoming dmg is expected.

I do take a hit on toughness gen since I'd have to actually be able to consistently pop heads when I get the chance to hold tempo but it usually doesn't get too bad for me.

[vital saddle]

when using demo team u just gotta remember to throw said nades

[spark helm]

Full confidence: I just push myself a little more with the build and make it happen.

[slow spade]

yeah that's why I mentioned the Kraks because you don't throw them often

[slow spade]

ah ok, I can see both sides especially with the braced gun

[maiden trail]

I use kraks on monstrosities and such usually