veteran-class

[midnight patrol]

You can do the same dodge charge dancing that you need to do with a PS with a Catachan, and have that parry safety net

[viscid marlin]

damage is important but you want your finesse on devil claw to be as high as possible for the parry portion, it has an insanely high finese modifier and that boosts it a lot

bonus points if you take the finesse/crit chance node on right tree

that makes it go nuclear

[narrow dock]

cleave is like, how god it swipes through multiple enemies right?

[viscid marlin]

well

oversimplified yes

but how it works is

each enemy after the first takes less damage from your swing

cleave extends the damage through more enemies with less falloff

[narrow dock]

k

[midnight patrol]

It's why the mk6 PS is so funny

[narrow dock]

cleave damag stat then?

[midnight patrol]

It gets insane cleave with very little damage falloff when charged

[viscid marlin]

70's should be fine for most things, but if you can get 80 thats better

[narrow dock]

nah i mean, it have 2 cleave stats

damage and targets

targets i guess do what u described?

[viscid marlin]

yeah

they are sort of the same thing

[midnight patrol]

Damage is the upfront base damage of the cleave

[viscid marlin]

^ that

[midnight patrol]

That gets divided up by cleave targets

[narrow dock]

oh so one for falloff other for dmg

[midnight patrol]

Yuh

[viscid marlin]

out of all the.. hundreds of devil claws i have tested, i have landed on the version i finally think is probably the most all around best

[narrow dock]

no mults for armor modifiers like guns, ic

[midnight patrol]

Which is bonkers that the Catachan has dedicated Stat bars for that

When other swords all have that as hidden stats

[viscid marlin]

this seems to be the best bang for buck out of my testing

[stone birch]

i'm partial to wrath/hammerblow. stunlocks everything lol

[midnight patrol]

Rampage really ramps up the breakpoints

[viscid marlin]

yeah it helps a lot especially in hordes

[midnight patrol]

You swing away into a horde and you're one rapping so often is hilarious

[viscid marlin]

^

[midnight patrol]

So much blood and gore on the screen

At least the PS VFX blocks most of it

[viscid marlin]

its fantastic

[midnight patrol]

Catachan swords you see everything lmao

[narrow dock]

cool, what about combat blade? i guess we prioritize mobility on it
what about rest?

[viscid marlin]

uhh

[midnight patrol]

I am very sure my poor Vet has tasted the maggots that fly in your face with some strikes you see.

[viscid marlin]

well

[viscid marlin]

100% mine has

combat blade makes my finger hurt so i dont use it too often

[midnight patrol]

Knife is weird. The blessings are what truly make it funny

[viscid marlin]

someone else will have to chime in on that one

[midnight patrol]

Some go for the heavy weakpoint attacks. So finesse is a must

[narrow dock]

Power swords can sacrifice mobility i guess?

[midnight patrol]

Then you have the spam mk1 button to put 100 damage per second bleeds on someone builds

[midnight patrol]

I'd say no

Sometimes you need to dodge while charging

[viscid marlin]

XD

but otherwise yes

[narrow dock]

need to die when charging? xd

[midnight patrol]

Dodge I meant lmao

[narrow dock]

nah

i'll do dying

sounds like fun

gotta sniff those puke puddles sometimes

[midnight patrol]

As long as it's not negative stats, you can have lower ish mobility

[hollow ibex]

lol i stopped playing zealot entirely because of this

[midnight patrol]

Mk6 is quite good in stamina efficiency though

[narrow dock]

500 weapons when?

[midnight patrol]

I was quite surprised I could block shit I had no business blocking with the mk6 PS

[narrow dock]

cuz thing with stats distribution make my gears grind too much

[midnight mortar]

In my opinion, some of it can be dropped yes. Its dodge count in general is poor so you can't rely heavily on it.

[delicate estuary]

whats a dump stat on bolter ?

[narrow dock]

me jumping my ass off when i see crusher overheading at me
🥲

[copper pine]

Usually mobility

Though low stopping power is fine as long as it still staggers bulwarks in one shot

[random cobalt]

what does dump stat mean

[viscid marlin]

well with the devil claw, the thing is you dont need to dodge anymore, you just parry them. and their ancestors.

[copper pine]

The stat your weapon least cares about

[junior needle]

Isn't it collateral now?

[narrow dock]

thx peeps wrote sum stuff in notes
esp parts about HHAGs <:
and SMGlike IAGs

[copper pine]

Yeah I forget they changed it

[narrow dock]

gotta gring shitton of plasteel and other stuff to roll things now 💀

tfw u have 0 plastel but 4k of diamantine

[hollow turtle]

Better than what they had before where we literally had to use a mod that just kept rolling a perk to make it reach t4 of what we want.

At least now we can just pick and choose.

[narrow dock]

sounds like vermintide

[hollow turtle]

Lol yeah. Exactly like that.

[narrow dock]

but it didn't had grades there tho

iirc

so it wasn't that bad

[hollow turtle]

It was percentages. I remember.

[iron marten]

Funniest part was how the cost went down every roll, eventually it became free to roll so the only thing being wasted at that point was time

[narrow dock]

aren't % were getting maxed on red items by default tho?

[hollow turtle]

yeah, at reds they were always maxed

so you'd just keep rolling until it had the bonuses you specifically wanted.

[vagrant narwhal]

do not suppose this is any good?

[narrow dock]

80 mobility

💀

[hollow turtle]

70% damage. Mid tier.

[vagrant narwhal]

you do not want to see the other rolls xD

[narrow dock]

378 stats tho, sheeesh

almost 380

[vagrant narwhal]

what am I looking for for blessings in this thing??

[narrow dock]

Surgical and deadly accurate

[copper pine]

You have surgical, so deadly accurate is the other

[hollow turtle]

Priority list of those rolls greatest to least:

1. Damage
2. Stopping power
3. Ammo
4. Stability
5. Mobility

Do you want surgical on a HH? I would've imagined it would be the other thingy. I can't remember the name.

[narrow dock]

yo m8 how did u made numbere list?

[copper pine]

Honestly, if you manage to get surgical it's still usable

[hollow turtle]

Lol what do you mean?
Shift+Enter to make a new line?

Discord kind of just auto makes the list once it recognizes you're making a list.

[junior needle]

Damage stat should be higher ideally, and it looks like your rolls came out 3/4 scuffed if you changed the perk already.

[narrow dock]

it's semi-auto, not burst

[vagrant narwhal]

nah I mean I can change out falter for deadly accurate, not an issue

[polar breach]

why is rampage such a pita to get for the devil claw lol

[vagrant narwhal]

but should I do that, or the sprint effiency

[hollow turtle]

I just imagined it would've been deadly accurate and headhunter.

[narrow dock]

huh?

[wary silo]

The new helmet looks ok enough for this set

[junior needle]

Absolute dogshit blessings are weighted to appear more often, more useful blessings less often

[narrow dock]

test:
one
two
three

not rly

[hollow turtle]

use numbers.

[polar breach]

damn you chunky megalodon

[hollow turtle]

1. a
2. b
3. c

[random cobalt]

[narrow dock]

i know only about lists like this one:

• thing one
• thing two
• thing three

[wary silo]

[junior needle]

Subtle attempt at "player retention" aka making your grind take as long as possible to keep you around in the hopes of you buying cosmetics

[polar breach]

do your lists like this
1.
Two:
C:

[urban adder]

how do we feel about the vet tree now? other than it being jank, whats strong? whats shit?

[hollow turtle]

Lol I think what you see vs what I see are different.

Saw when you quoted me, my list turned into bullets instead of numbers.

[midnight mortar]

Keystones can be skipped at a negligible impact to your builds.

[narrow dock]

nah ur had numbers

[midnight mortar]

Tax costs and opportunity costs are higher than ever.

[hollow turtle]

Lol I'm not sure then. 😅

[hollow turtle]

For a second I thought you were talking about real life.

[narrow dock]

https://tenor.com/view/halo-political-gif-21438301

[hollow turtle]

Lol lets not go there.

Before the mods get involved.

[polar breach]

this is entirely my own opinion.
Survivalist feels almost mandatory. Executioner's stance is okay, I'm honestly not sure how to make it feel great though. Shout is fuckin amazing, even with the recent nerf. Weapon swap keystone is fun, but sometimes a pita to keep cycling. Focus feels bad because the game encourages you to keep moving, but it requires you to stop moving (or consistently get weakpoint shots git gud). the Tag keystone is also a lot of fun, but nothing as game changing as the weapon swapping one.

[narrow dock]

already did

[hollow turtle]

I forgot who said it. I like to keep two identical builds, except one is running something other than survivalist in case I get paired with another veteran who has it.

[viscid marlin]

I pretty much agree with that entirely.

[cloud leaf]

Executioner stance is basically throwing. Not taking survivalist is also throwing. Smoke grenades are also throwing. Any veteran who does any of these should be vote kicked immediately

[hollow turtle]

5% bonus speed is nice while someone runs ammo

[narrow dock]

what's survivalist btw?

[viscid marlin]

That depends on the team i think, exe stance can really mow things down but you have to have a team that can handle it.

[narrow dock]

ammo regen?

[hollow turtle]

1% ammo return on elite/special kill to all in coherency

[polar breach]

but my exe stance chievos

[junior needle]

how do we feel about the vet tree now?
Too many unnecessary do nothing nodes, too many points to get down the tree, nodes that should be near the top are on the bottom, unnecessary nerfs to nodes people liked, mixed feelings about the keystones (weapon specialist doesn't even work right), ranged vet feels like the most unsupported playstyle.

other than it being jank, whats strong?
Melee vet. Ironically way stronger than ranged vet.

whats shit?
Ranged vet , gun psyker is unironically doing better.

[cloud leaf]

It's easy enough to mow things down without it and also have shout or invisibility for massive clutch

[narrow dock]

aura can be bigger than coherency btw

[hollow turtle]

I play ranged vet well (most of the time) thank you very much.

cope

[polar breach]

the thing I love the most about exe stance is the ability to highlight all ranged mobs - and that's mostly for spotting the shits that like to hide in the dark

[viscid marlin]

I don't disagree with you, but exe stance is still really good. Especially with the director spawning fuckloads of shotgunners, having them insta highlighted with a bunch of extra damage and stability can do a lot.

[hollow turtle]

Forgot about that

[hollow turtle]

Sniper vent purge carry.

[spice hawk]

People still running rending strikes and onslaught for brauto? Im tempted to try superiority complex over onslaught but it seems like it might be a bad idea

[polar breach]

vent purge + snipers is awful and it makes me hate the entire mission lol

[hollow turtle]

Lol ironically vent purge snipers and the lights out missions are my favorite ones to play.

Very atmospheric.

[narrow dock]

just
use
smoke
nades
✌🏻

🌫️

[polar breach]

I see that fuckin sniper laser and feel my heart rate skyrocket

[hollow turtle]

Meanwhile, 🐱

[narrow dock]

imo best nades, are smokes on vet, hands down

[hollow turtle]

Laser. Must find.

[viscid marlin]

ew

ew

[narrow dock]

get that regen

[viscid marlin]

smoke nades

ew

[narrow dock]

and u don't get targeted by snipers

[hollow turtle]

Imagine throwing smoke nades in vent purge. XD

[viscid marlin]

you do though

[narrow dock]

dog's running round not jumping

[polar breach]

honestly I feel like even frag grenades aren't worth it on vet. krak feels like the only worthwhile grenade

[viscid marlin]

sniper shoot you right through smoke

[hollow turtle]

Smoke nades don't work on snipers

Just imagine the snipers running thermal scopes.

[narrow dock]

melee mobs getting slow af in them too

[hollow turtle]

I'd imagine that's how they see us lorewise in vent purge.

[viscid marlin]

i have other ways of dealing with heavy armored targets so i just stick to frags for the revives usually

[polar breach]

hello yes I would like thermal scopes

sure, but not as fast

and shouts are generally my go-to clear for revives

gives me enough time to get folks up

which reminds me - just remembered. did they get rid of the node that gives you +movespeed towards downed and revive speed?

[hollow turtle]

https://tenor.com/view/telmo-coca-harina-raquetaso-esnifar-gif-25660568

Krak

[narrow dock]

funnies part is, they use usual Infantry lasgun but with Optics xd

[viscid marlin]

the problem is, yeah if i could carry a krak for every crusher on the map that might work but.. 2 out of 6 crushers dead is still 4 crushers, id rather just frag stun all of them and two shot each int he head with a mk6 ps

[viscid marlin]

no its there in right tree above infil i think

[sharp ember]

i need flashbangs and flares for permanently blinding snipers

[hollow turtle]

I play infil so I get the 3rd grenade.

[polar breach]

thanks, time to go rework my talent tree

[narrow dock]

zealot have stuns

[hollow turtle]

You mean a zealot?

[hollow turtle]

This is if I have the extra point.

[sharp ember]

zealot? you mean melee guardsman?

[viscid marlin]

i definitely dont have the extra point

[polar breach]

so, melee vet? lol

[narrow dock]

having extra point on vet

[viscid marlin]

from this moment onward, if you are in a lobby with me you are responsible for your own survivability. ill give you shout and help you out but you gotta do your part

[polar breach]

I mean your shout is already taking on part of the responsibility for their survivability lol

[viscid marlin]

after those toughness node nerfs i gotta look out for myself more

[polar breach]

I use that shit proactively - if someone is starting to lose some toughness, pop it when I'm near them

[viscid marlin]

you'd be surprised how bad people are even with shout up

but i also have cursed lobbies...

[hollow turtle]

This is my current tree.

[narrow dock]

TFW when i struggled where to put extra couple left over points i had on psyker and ogryn

[hollow hinge]

melee stealth vet is best vet

[viscid marlin]

get out

[hollow turtle]

I don't do the ranged keystone because honestly... longshot kind of semi does it permanently.

[solemn plaza]

lol the speed of that reply

[kind scarab]

No, get in the ship, there's heretics to kill

[viscid marlin]

the truth

[hollow turtle]

Lol

[midnight mortar]

Longshot does it better actually because it's raw damage rather than finesse power.

[narrow dock]

nah thx i'll catch other ship

[polar breach]

not a fan of the stealth IMO, it's just too "greedy" of a skill to me. you take someone off the aggro table for your team, which could result in someone getting downed, for some extra power to take out 1-3 big-ish enemies.

[narrow dock]

w/o kraken cowards

[brittle grove]

can someone help me with the penance make every shot count?

[viscid marlin]

not just that, but zealot does it better

[hollow turtle]

Exactly. Save myself 1-3 points that I could throw grenade tinkerer and leave no one behind

[kind scarab]

Sounds like something a coward would say to avoid fighting heretics

[delicate moat]

bruh what is up with the audio this patch

[hollow turtle]

haven't noticed a diff. What changed?

[viscid marlin]

you know what really pisses me off, when im shooting craploads of elites and specials and a zealot complains to me that he cant generate his knives because im killing everything. Like, you're welcome?

[delicate moat]

assassin crushers and maulers

[hollow hinge]

stealth actually can be really good support

[viscid marlin]

not my fault farshark did a bad design

[hollow hinge]

It also can save a game.

[hollow turtle]

[kind scarab]

100% that

[narrow dock]

not your fault he have skill isssue
FTFY

[viscid marlin]

stealth can definitely do that. it's just.. better on a zealot

imo

[hollow hinge]

i disagree

i think vet does stealth better

[viscid marlin]

you can disagree but the next time i get out damage'd by a stealth vet i will uninstall

[solemn plaza]

nah no way, zealot can capitalize off it way better

[hollow turtle]

Vet definitely does stealth better.

[delicate moat]

i love when the overhead swing makes me pancake before i heard a single sound

[hollow hinge]

well then you might as well uninstall right now

[hollow turtle]

Not only you got stealth for 8s, low profile essentially extends it another 10 if your friends are nearby.

You can be the guy hacking the machine the whole machine.

And nothing will bother you

[viscid marlin]

you can either have basically perma invis on zealot, or a massive cooldown on vet.. it's not really even a contest, one is a clear winner over the other. and if you are going to do a bunch of melee, one is also still a clear winner over the other. if you want to play it because you like it that's fine and all, but better? definitely not.

[narrow dock]

lets be frank, stealth sucks overall

[junior needle]

Knife zealot can get massively more practical uptime on stealth

[hollow turtle]

Also, enter stealth before picking up those power or ammo canisters. You can actually carry it in stealth too.

[hollow hinge]

You also can stealth to guarantee a ressurection

[junior needle]

Including weaving in and out of melee with it

[narrow dock]

hack in stealth

[viscid marlin]

one evicerator swing and you have your entire stealth reset

[nimble sentinel]

the only thing that sucks overall is me after my third glass of pinot noir, gimme a stealth build I'm exhausted from making guns work

[viscid marlin]

its not even close

[narrow dock]

as utility vet stealth is much better, sure, but still it's kinda sucks

[hollow turtle]

hack in stealth, carry containers in stealth, revive in stealth, you're the bomb squad robot asset.

[atomic zephyr]

this game stresses me the fuck out man

[narrow dock]

same goes for zealot, like sure buddy u can oneshot something

[hollow hinge]

My stealth vet knifee 1 shots basically everything, including most specialists and elites

[atomic zephyr]

just did auric histg a man down because the bot went down and was never replaced

[narrow dock]

with ur punny knoife

[hollow hinge]

so zealot aint special

[viscid marlin]

yeah but.. zealot could just also do that and have nearly 0 cooldown

[atomic zephyr]

and the two ogryns kept eating all my shots

[narrow dock]

and u have 25 fat elites more

[atomic zephyr]

stg i lost 30% of my ammo to shooting ogryns in the back

[hollow hinge]

ez kills

[hollow turtle]

Lol

[viscid marlin]

Like why would i take a 45 or 60 second cooldown when i could have a one swing reset cooldown

[narrow dock]

just plz pull up that cross, scream and hold 'em all in stun, u'll MUCH more usefull

[atomic zephyr]

on a columnus too

[south garnet]

Just found this boys, oh yea!

On... my psyker.

[hollow hinge]

not only is the melee good for a stealth vet, ranged with stealth works extremely well

[hollow turtle]

At least you're humbled for when you decide to play an Ogryn.

[hollow hinge]

nice bro

[misty delta]

this is why I run plasma whenever there’s more than one ogryn

[delicate moat]

i think i figured out when the random melee about to hit warning plays

beast of nurgle does that

[viscid marlin]

ain't this the damn truth..

[vague hull]

ey lads we got a list of good melee+ranged combo for the weapon swapping keystone? Saw axe+revolver being popular, any other?

[atomic zephyr]

i joined in progress

[delicate moat]

plays the melee warning sound as if it's behind u

[solemn plaza]

zealots with the icon are gods man, like right when shit is getting stressful and theyre just like "here, free breathing room"

[south garnet]

only on psyker though lol

[hollow turtle]

Best zealots

[hollow hinge]

I like stub revolver, plasma rifle, and mk2 helbore

[hollow turtle]

They know to stay close to the team too

[hollow hinge]

D:

[viscid marlin]

rip the only zealots i get to play with are selfish stealth zealots never even in coherency and 2 rooms down complaining about not having backup

[solemn plaza]

once we got stuck in a hallway during a horde and a bunch of crushers spawned, i was out of krak grenades and was like yep, someones goin down. then the zealot chad walked up and showed the ogryns his cool toy

[hollow hinge]

stealth vets are alwayss in coherency

[hollow turtle]

Meanwhile, zealots with loner passive. Karker

[viscid marlin]

😂

[narrow dock]

dumbos thik that onehit killing couple of elites is doing their part lol

[worthy pelican]

right keystone and exestance doesnt work together

[hollow turtle]

This is honestly a very weird truth. The one that can be alone for an extended time and not be bothered, they choose to stay near anyways.

[delicate moat]

i really like shout and relic this patch specifically because shit can spawn out of thin air and not make a single sound and then you're surrounded

[sharp ember]

is that their greed aura? i want a greed aura

[hollow hinge]

Yeah for sure

[brittle grove]

Can someone please help with the penance make every shot count? It's really painful doing it with randoms

[narrow dock]

unless u need to scan shit

[solemn plaza]

i ahvent used the shout yet but it sounds like a great bullshit deflector

[delicate moat]

it really is

when 7 crushers suddenly surround u the stagger can be a life saver

[hollow turtle]

Oh def, that's me running out of coherency to get the far scan. Sometimes, stupidly.

[solemn plaza]

bubble shield on psyker is that. 7 gunners across the way and the elite killer cant deal with it yet? no

[narrow dock]

lil tip for it
if u think u gotta shout soon, shout sooner than u rly wanna, cuz otherwise its gonna be too l8 and uget interrupted :D

[hollow hinge]

the stealth is also amazing for needing to go into Fight or Flight mode

[hollow turtle]

psyker shield wall+vet

[hollow hinge]

good panic button

[hollow turtle]

Good time.

[sharp ember]

shout is great for telling a flamer or trapper NO if you don't take revive shout for range

[hollow turtle]

Especially in a door way

[hollow hinge]

yeah

[solemn plaza]

i dont think ill ever go back to venting shriek, the shield is just amazing for the team

[tawdry swan]

what is agripina best blessings? thinking about grabbing this one from melk that has full bore and no respite

[hollow hinge]

shield is top tier

[delicate moat]

very good for preventing the flamer/trapper in a mixed horde that u can't hit to demolish ur team

[narrow dock]

which agripina of many?

oh shotty

[delicate moat]

i find blocking bullets is cool and all, but blocking nades, flames and traps are insane utility on high difficulties

[midnight mortar]

I wish more psykers used the wall shield.

[hollow turtle]

Shield wall is good for a vet. Bubble is good for melee moments

[midnight mortar]

But I'm biased as a ranged vet.

[hollow turtle]

Ranged can't do anything in it+toughness regen

[narrow dock]

i like walls more rly

[hollow turtle]

Same actually

[narrow dock]

btw, can they have 2 bubbles?

[delicate moat]

i like wall, but it expires after 2 specials hit right

[solemn plaza]

its just a good temp solution for those moments everyone is busy to deal with the sniper 10000 yards away or the twin gunners and reaper or bomber

[hollow turtle]

I like the walls more because you know.. That stupid mutant is going to run in the bubble and push you out like some cosmic horror.

[sharp ember]

Fullbore + No Respite, but it's mostly about Fullbore. I like Manstopper + Scattershot on a crit build too

[solemn plaza]

and can save runs

[midnight mortar]

The wall shield actually seems more useful to me. Stops mutants and dogs. Let's me peek a sightline without annoying melee swarming as everyone moves to a badly placed bubble again.

[solemn plaza]

yeah i had a hard time choosing between the two, i went bubble shield just to ensure team coverage but the wall is also damn good

[hollow turtle]

Especially when like a dozen dreg shooters are aiming at your team in a door way.

[tawdry swan]

oh ok

i might just be patient tho cuz this one has fullbore and no respite byut theyre both only lv3

[midnight mortar]

Having had good psykers with walls on pox hunting grounds/mutant presence, god it was almost relaxing.

[hollow turtle]

Can pop out and counter shoot and not worry about a random special coming through.

[solemn plaza]

i wish it made like a pane glass bong sound when a mutant runs into it

[hollow turtle]

or a fooking trapper shooting through the horde and pullilng you through the door.

[misty delta]

the biggest benefit of bubble shield is manipulating public player ai into staying in coherency :wheeze:

[sharp ember]

that's pretty good, tier 4 is barely an improvement for those I think. You could optimize both perks instead if desired. Probably Flak + Maniac

[delicate moat]

i actually like dome more for this since it doesn't expire on specials contact

[narrow dock]

my fav special elite in game NGL :D
she's funny af

and love ruining runs

[midnight mortar]

Half the time I see psykers use bubble it's more like an "ok everyone please come here and melee while struggling to displace the ranged threats and disablers closing in".

[delicate moat]

nice try, pub teammates will go where they please

[misty delta]

let a guy believe 😭

[hollow turtle]

The 2x charge helps with this. Then if you do the warp charges, you essentially have 3 shield charges.

[hollow hinge]

i use the bubble as a shield to deal with gunners or ranged specials from long ways away

[solemn plaza]

maybe, i try to use it to give a vet time to ADS without having to worry about other stuff

[viscid marlin]

those are just bad teammates. whenever i get a bubble i'm like HELL YEAH BROTHER I GOT THIS

shoot literally every ranged threat in view distance

[delicate moat]

dome makes grenade bounce off right?

[solemn plaza]

i bring smite to hold trash mobs flooding the bubble as well to help that

[hollow hinge]

kill

[midnight mortar]

Maybe it's also just the new map being fresh and unknown to people.

[hollow turtle]

this is my way of doing it. I'll take care of the trash mobs while vet takes care of the elites/specs in the distance.

[midnight mortar]

I hardly ever can shoot through or inside the bubble unaccosted.

[sharp ember]

yeah, it limits the fire spread too i think

[viscid marlin]

i think that's part of it but the director seems to be on one of those "spawn 20 gunners right now on top of you" binge and it's becoming tiring honestly

[solemn plaza]

thats why smite mvp

[midnight mortar]

It does not stop bomber fire.

[hollow turtle]

So long as the vet is competent enough to understand what you're doing for him.

[midnight mortar]

It does stop the nade.

[solemn plaza]

the grenade bounces off it yeah

[delicate moat]

i dont think it limits fire spread, but not having the floor is lava is so incredibly valuable

[midnight mortar]

So half the bubble will have fire under it.

[viscid marlin]

still, its something

[hollow turtle]

neither shield stops the fire spread.

[sharp ember]

I must have confused it for blocking flamer streams

[solemn plaza]

yeah its better than a full radius under your feet

[hollow turtle]

It does block the flamer streams.

[delicate moat]

blocking flamer is also insane value

[hollow turtle]

Has helped more than once to pick up the downed ally who was getting bbq'd

[delicate moat]

nothing gets me more than flamers and bombers

[solemn plaza]

both shields are damn good though in different ways. being able to just full on Matrix neo charging mutants is great

[viscid marlin]

and dogs

dont forget packs of dogs

[solemn plaza]

oh god yes

[hollow turtle]

those hellspawn dogs

[sharp ember]

sometimes I try to run forward and catch grenades in flight with my face so it doesn't land optimally in the middle of us

[delicate moat]

dome also sometimes bug out mutants and dogs

[hollow turtle]

LOL

[solemn plaza]

true guardsman right there

[ebon umbra]

anyone else feel like a clone trooper when training with the creature spawner mod?

https://tenor.com/view/simulations-just-like-the-simulations-harrisonfog-battlefront2remaster-discord-gif-16952806

[delicate moat]

new keystone: jager ADS mounted on forehead

[hollow turtle]

Until you throw a few mutants in the mix.

[solemn plaza]

ive actually seen this with a scab trooper, he stood on the border of the bubble and got his pathfinding confused

[delicate moat]

the fact that dome blocks traps too is incredible

[solemn plaza]

he just stood in place and basically spun around left and right

[delicate moat]

in a mixed horde sometimes u get like multiple trappers and it gets insane

[hollow turtle]

This makes sense. Their pathfinding reliant on getting a los of sight on you, and he's basically sitting right in the center of the invisible wall.

[sharp ember]

bro didn't know if he could trust the dome wouldn't melt his flesh because you never know with psyker sorcery

[solemn plaza]

bloody witchery

[frozen moon]

This good?

[narrow dock]

oh peeps, do we have revolvers skins for aquillas?

like the one our Inquisitor usin

[abstract stream]

Is this fine

[viscid marlin]

goDAMN

[delicate moat]

wtf when was this

[viscid marlin]

that is a beautiful gun

[narrow dock]

it's revolver of our Inquisitor lol

he shot betrayer with it

[delicate moat]

i will steal revolvo

[narrow dock]

yep, here it is

oh no

[viscid marlin]

😂

[narrow dock]

iirc peeps usually tell u wanna stopping power at 80

armor penetration and all that

[narrow dock]

seems p good, can't rly tell u about blessings tho

[tall torrent]

Not bad but can be better

Plasma gun wants 78% or higher on both dmg and SP

[narrow dock]

full bore scattershot i guess
but it doesn't rly affect slugs, unless u shot from it before loading one

i remember some peeps like to use Terrifying barrage, cuz of supression, it gives u a breathing room, which is actually always nice

[tall torrent]

This is good

[tall torrent]

Scattershot is better on kantrael shotgun
Full bore is better on agripinaa shotgun
Both work for Lawbringer but depends on ur build

[narrow dock]

so full bore with terrifying barrage then? :D

[tall torrent]

Terrifying barrage is bad

[narrow dock]

i mean u can have 2 blessings, which is second one if scatter aren't as good on it

[tall torrent]

If you’re going scattershot route (either Lawbringer or kantrael), take man-stopper (tier 2 exclusive blessing, gives u excellent cleave on crit which is enabled by scattershot)

If you’re going full bore (either Lawbringer or agripinaa), take no respite for more dmg against elites in regular shots (because u stagger them really hard), or deathspitter/fire frenzy to chain up dmg between close range kills

[pseudo canyon]

Any particular melee/gun combo I should try out if I've not played for like, 4 months?

[tall torrent]

Lots of things u can try, most guns are playable now

[pseudo canyon]

Gotcha. No current meta or anything then I guess?

[tall torrent]

There is a meta but you can do well with a lot of guns that aren’t “top tier” meta

[pseudo canyon]

Cool cool ty

[wooden oriole]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkTide/comments/17xi5jx/ranged_invulnerability_and_infinite_sprint/

[vague hull]

what's the diff between the three shotgun types?

[narrow dock]

duckbill on lawbringer
slug on agripiina
dragonbreath on kantrael

[civic bay]

(the special ammunition)

[vague hull]

so gonna guess it's crowd, elites, damage over time(monstrosities)?

[hearty panther]

roughly yea

[narrow dock]

kinda, tho i have a feeling like dragonbreath is better on hordes than monstrocities

[vague hull]

aight cool gonna give agripina a shot then

[hybrid river]

Kantrael is just better than lawbringer, lawbringer doesn’t really have a niche right now

[civic bay]

It's a piercing burn shot

[narrow dock]

basically sniper rifle w/o optics xd

[vague hull]

that's all i want from a shotgun

long range

hell yeah

[civic bay]

Strangely accurate hipfire too lol

ADS with the normal Agrippina shot has a fairly small spread so it's not bad for tapping heads at mid-range

[narrow dock]

by strangelly he mean u can clap sniper from 50 meters in head w/o ADS with slug

[vague hull]

should be fine until 30

[civic bay]

Full Bore is extra nice too with the sluf

[vague hull]

any melee weapon that compliments it well?

[vague hull]

jesus

[narrow dock]

power sword

[near sable]

ps has the thrust for crushers..

[vague hull]

this is all i got rn, kinda broke

[tall torrent]

Lawbringer

• balanced dmg, firerate & ammo
• balanced hipfire spread, extremely tight ADS spread
• special: horizontal spreadshot (decent cleave)

Agripinaa

• low dmg, high firerate & ammo
• tight pellet spread (both hipfire & ADS)
• special: high dmg slug (can activate full bore) with massive stagger

Kantrael

• high dmg, low firerate & ammo
• wide pellet spread (both hipfire & ADS)
• special: fire shot (very high cleave, burn stack applied based on number pellet hits)

[near sable]

figure left tree + lawbringer horizontal spread could be funny with manstopper

[tall torrent]

Also shotguns have a weird “minimum pellet hit value” based on the armor type u hit

[near sable]

although manstopper is actually illegal to appear on weapons

[vague hull]

no idea what that is, the only shotgun i played was last patch kickback

[tall torrent]

Lv2 blessing, either apply or have to buy from requisition

[near sable]

https://tenor.com/view/witchcraft-hunchback-of-notre-dame-frollo-animated-gif-19403567

[narrow dock]

actually lets do math assumng we have same chance of getting every blessing

[tall torrent]

Basically so long as u hit an enemy at all, the game will register a minimum amount of pellets worth of dmg on that enemy regardless of how many pellets u actually hit (so long as the actual hit value is lower than minimum hit value)

[narrow dock]

3.3% to get that blessing

1/30th

keque

[tall torrent]

Not same chance

[vague hull]

jesus that's a big hit from that slug shot

[near sable]

with no respite & exec and full bore you can hit 3300/3600 on crusher crit ws

[vague hull]

oh wow

[near sable]

that's so close to the ohk breakpoint

[tall torrent]

So for example

If ur using a Lawbringer and hit an unyielding enemy (reaper) with 1 pellet

The game will register 15 pellets of dmg onto that reaper because the unyielding minimum pellet hit value for Lawbringer is 15

[vague hull]

what

[tall torrent]

Even though Lawbringer itself only shoots 13 pellets with every shot

[vague hull]

that's pretty funny

[smoky lark]

is the MK IX any good ?

could I build around it?

or is it one of the weaker shotguns

[ancient path]

good god.

[narrow dock]

literally scroll a bit higher :D

[vague hull]

just took the +30% weakpoint damage talent node, i can now ohko damnation gunners at level 16 with my shitty shotgun

[tall torrent]

Pretty good

[vague hull]

this is cool

[narrow dock]

and damn these rolls

[vague hull]

guess i'll use power sword for carapace though

[tall torrent]

That 30% weakpoint node does not work the way u think it does

[ancient path]

i use it quite a bit. i like harder hitting things.

[tall torrent]

Weakpoint and crit dmg percentages are based off of weakpoint & crit bonus dmg percentages

[ancient path]

the alt fire is okay, i dont use it much as a vet.

[tall torrent]

The 30% weakpoint does not mean you actually deal 30% more damage shooting to weakpoint

[vague hull]

oh

is it like the 10% perk

[smoky lark]

how do I build it? is it crit build + manstopper ?

[narrow dock]

so like if weakpoint modiffier is like x1.5 u gonna hit almost x2 in the end?

[near sable]

i can only wonder whats coming next

[sharp ember]

Scattershot + Flechette is really nice to burn and bleed at the same time. But manstopper is also very fun for normal shells

[tall torrent]

It’s a weird calculation not in favour of dealing a lot more damage

[smoky lark]

rolled pretty badly on blessings but the perks might be good enough for a keep ?

[tall torrent]

We’re in a bizarre timeline rn where shotgun melee vet is a hotter topic than Lasgun sharpshooter

[sharp ember]

No Respite is a good one too, enemies burn harder when staggered, and most enemies stagger from fire shells

[narrow dock]

w/e the case, it help oneshot shit which usually u can;t onetap :D

[tall torrent]

Honestly this is a very serviceable shotgun

[narrow dock]

still need to do 10 melee kills to shot once

lol

[worthy meteor]

If I tag an enemy that has 8 stacks and I have 1 does focus target overwrite the 8 stacks?

[smoky lark]

I replaced Deathspitter with Scattershot IV, and I'll try to find manstopper

[tall torrent]

I don’t recommend full bore on kantrael because the spread is very wide

[tall torrent]

No, just 3

[ruby fulcrum]

Just 1 actually

[tall torrent]

2 gives u 66% crit chance already

3 guarantees crit

[narrow dock]

does it rly works that way?

[tall torrent]

U can test it out rn

[sharp epoch]

it gone

[ruby fulcrum]

It's bugged. One or more stacks of ranged spec gives you 1 guaranteed crit, then nothing

[narrow dock]

k, then it's not as bad as i initially thought

[vague hull]

aight time to do some more heresy missions to get to 20 thanks lads

[narrow dock]

but getting buff for only 1 shot is stupid

[ruby fulcrum]

Yeah lol

[sharp epoch]

bad on columbus infantry auto

[narrow dock]

nah

bad on any gun

even shotty, plasma or revolver

lol

[sharp epoch]

its decent on revolver and plasma

[tall torrent]

If 1 shot is all u need to kill a priority target, it’s good

Which is why it’s strong on shotguns & revolver

[sharp epoch]

bad on high rof low damage guns whoch wont reach a breakpoint with a crit

[sharp ember]

another way to explain it is it only increases the damage difference between a normal shot and a headshot
So if your gun does 100 bodyshot and 150 headshot, only the 50 damage difference gets +30% bigger

[narrow dock]

well, as i already said earlier, i'll better be off being able to oneshot 5 times in row than do it once and go on CD

[junior needle]

If you're talking about kantrael shotty, I was very much not a fan of that setup.

[narrow dock]

ic, weir thingie but ok
reming me of weird headshot dmg calculations in Apex lol

[terse idol]

It seems it would be better for hordes

Bleed and burn on specs/elites don't seem too valuable

[sharp ember]

yeah i prefer manstopper + scattershot in general, 2 fire shells alone is usually enough for most things

[spring bloom]

Which of the lasguns would be best if I'm hardlining the left side and going full sniper? Haven't played in a bit and I'm sorta rusty

[narrow dock]

none

[atomic zephyr]

1a or 12 inf las

[sharp ember]

any helbore lasgun, or kantrael mg1a or mg12

[near sable]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/951149330788655156/1039279554356842658/final_634ab9cad47762078f2236d4_675526.gif

[sharp ember]

helbore lets you shoot carapace armor effectively, but slow to wield and is ironsights without mods

[smoky lark]

in the meatgrinder, a bit underwhelmed by the mark IX. maybe im not using it correctly

[sharp ember]

if you hate irons

[junior needle]

Even just 2 fire shells is a long ttk for every single soft elite/special

[narrow dock]

https://tenor.com/view/kek-gif-20361267

[near sable]

https://tenor.com/view/a12-guns-miss-gif-10558976

[sharp epoch]

and the no stagger on it is trash

[narrow dock]

if u haven't seen it, it's effing hilarious
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6OBk9YBLQU

[near sable]

you just rechambered every shell in the tube

"yup"

[sharp ember]

it's more of a situational shotgun for burning clumped up enemies, or quickly splattering a special with normal shells

maybe it's not enough without optimized perks

[spring bloom]

Ah OK, anything notably different between the Ia and the 12?

[smoky lark]

im guessing I need manstopper

instead of no respite

[willow badger]

Lowkey I enjoy the mg iv

It's a fun pick

[shell ginkgo]

Shocktrooper and ammo aura and you can shoot for days

[tall torrent]

It’s a lv2 blessing

Brunt sells it in his requisition sometimes

[atomic zephyr]

me watching the zealot walk up to the clearly marked daemonhost, fail to oneshot it and then die

[shell ginkgo]

Neuron activates upon seeing marked enemy

[kindred vapor]

Is it even worth spending points on veteran keystones, they all seem shit

[waxen veldt]

It's called being a Martyr or something

[kindred vapor]

and vet has enough point taxes as is

gotta spend fucking 5 points to get the full benefit of my active ability

7 to get the full benefit from your keystone

[wooden oar]

Am I crazy or does it feel like veteran takes more damage since last patch?

[kindred vapor]

specifically for weapon specialist but still

[spring bloom]

Exhilarating Takedown is bugged still

So you're taking 30% more damage

[wooden oar]

Yea I know about that one.

[spring bloom]

The Emperor has seen fit to punish his finest warriors apparently

[sleek cairn]

what the hell did the hotfix do then

[spring bloom]

Oh, they fixed it?

[wooden oar]

Have the devs said anything about it since the patch?

[sleek cairn]

no im actually asking what the hotfix was for lol

[spring bloom]

I was also confused because the hotfix said nothing about it lol

I thought I'd somehow skipped over it

[vague hull]

oh any diffs between the two power swords?

[sharp epoch]

6 is better

[vague hull]

aight cool

[sharp epoch]

basically 6 has better lights, 3 has better heavies, but lights do the same thing

[sleek cairn]

hey there's a push atk difference

[sharp epoch]

and 6 has better push attack

[vague hull]

yeah that thing is nice for crushers

and maulers

[sharp epoch]

they massacred my boy 😭

[alpine nexus]

Can I get a fit check?

[vague hull]

ohh

i see

[sharp epoch]

special heavies do like 480, special lights do 360 but it hits the breakpoints you need

[willow badger]

Also ps6 you can block cancel when activating

Which helps defensively

[spring bloom]

So, for perks for a Mk12, I'd want Deadly Accurate and Headhunter, right?

[sharp epoch]

the heck is block cancling

intresting

[vague hull]

yeah i activate then immediately push attack

[willow badger]

Whereas for PS3 you have more mobility but you can't block while activating

[vague hull]

no animation sure is nice

also damn infiltrate is freaking nuts for objectives

[sharp epoch]

My sword is borked or something I got 25% carapace and 25% unyielding and cant one shot stab bulwarks

[vague hull]

by the way

how the fuck do i make the most of smoke nades

I tried throwing em at gunners

doesn't seem to do shit

[sharp epoch]

throw it like batman style

for cool factor

[vague hull]

ninja smoke bomb

[wind bone]

why is this so funny

[vague hull]

??? it has 25% block built in??? what

what the heck

this thing is awesome

[whole moon]

That is something I was unaware of, thanks!

[slender crown]

i need to learn how to duel chaos spawns

[vague hull]

is push attack not more dps than triple light?

or is it cuz stamina management

yea aight

time to run triple 3 stam curios

[calm prairie]

what are the ideal perks/blessings for the 6

Ive only really been using the other one

[gusty sonnet]

Ladies and gentlemen, we got him

[opal granite]

hmmmm what would be best to do with this one? don't want to waste it

[sacred agate]

just curious, why do you play veteran?

[opal crag]

What is the best accatran mk for armored ? Vlla , II , or Vld ?

[jolly cave]

gun go brrrr

[sacred agate]

ironic

[gusty sonnet]

Speaking of melee vet, what perks do you ahve on your power sword?

mkVI

[wooden oar]

What talents do you run for melee vet

[sacred agate]

interesting, from my limited knowledge i thought the consensus was not too positive towards the recent rework

[tulip condor]

how?

[opal granite]

thanks a lot!

[gusty sonnet]

Okay, many thanks 🙂

[nocturne mulch]

Any other veterans finding the randoms in pub auric damnation have been sucking since the latest update?

[opal crag]

What is the best Veteran accatran mk for armored ? Vlla , II , or Vld ?

[nocturne mulch]

Ever since last patch I've had to clutch at least twice every match, not because of the team getting into a bad spot but because of randoms getting downed to dumb avoidable shit

Its kinda stopped being fun and is just stressful now, vet clutch is hard

[frozen meadow]

for sapper shovel, is uncanny strike or limbsplitter better

[nocturne mulch]

Yeah I'm experiencing the same

[wooden oar]

Thank you. Time to test it with this beauty

[nocturne mulch]

It's wierd because it doesn't feel harder? Like I'm playing the same I was before and it feel the same difficulty

But my random teammates keep dropping like flies

Whereas before my random teammates were just as good as me and auric damnation was usually a smooth ride to the end

[hollow ibex]

oh good to know, tried out ps6 for the first time and had a horrible time with the activations

[opal granite]

ooooh I can tell you as someone who plays all difficulties across the board (low level friend n stuff) randos are making waaaay more mistakes or silly moves lately

[nocturne mulch]

Oh and am I the only noticing being able to 1 hit mutants with mk4 devil claw heavy1?

[opal granite]

not sure why but saw many people run literally into the sawblade

[nocturne mulch]

I am full right melee tree

Since the patch?

I've seen reddit full of complaints about auric damnation increased enemy count

But I've not noticed any difference?

[edgy dew]

I've noticed the difference in ammo consumption

[winter dock]

DAYUM BRUNT OOOHHHKAY

[pure ravine]

fucking hell

that is a wacky bolter

[winter dock]

that is as close to a god-roll aas it GETS

[pure ravine]

false. 379 would be close

380 would be the god roll itself XD

[midnight wing]

lol

[whole moon]

That unarmoured person who was dead before the 25% buff immediately dies again on their appearance in the warp

[hollow ibex]

I feel like there are so many more enemies on the new map lol

[dusk jacinth]

hello vet chat

i require a focus support build

[nocturne mulch]

I've seen 380 with perfect distribution on reddit

[gusty sonnet]

sub51 mobility but otherwise yeah

[winter dock]

I would prefer that the collat go into Mobility, but tbh it doesn't really matter. The other three at all 80 and that's what matters

[nocturne mulch]

Then getting t4 flak/maniac amd t4 pinning fire/shattering impact

[whole moon]

I think I have a 379 but not ideal distribution

[hollow ibex]

Yeah though just in general.

[nocturne mulch]

Literal definition of god-roll

[winter dock]

I really don't care about the stagger at all really

[nocturne mulch]

What I've seen is that pubs always seem to get tunnel vision fighting the infinite spawns forever

Rather than progressing objectives asap

[winter dock]

Oh yeah, I also tried a new Recon las setup to see how it works

the VIIa works surprisingly well. It just also suffers the problem of ammo

but its very good at consistently building Marksman's focus

[whole moon]

This was it

[dusk jacinth]

laspistol good?

[mystic escarp]

I gotta vent so god damn hard
I hate exe stance
I hate marksman focus
I hate lasguns
Jesus

I died 6(!) times in auric on the last run, I am so sorry for my teammates who carried it all till the end

I can’t kill anything fast enough
I can’t survive pox horde
The price of mistake is so damn high. Just miss one shot and you are in the damn grave.

Looks like the only choice is plasma and melee/support vet cause damn that run was a total mess

[winter dock]

I had to eat basically 90% of the ammo on the map tho t.t

[dusk jacinth]

powersword laspistol combo

yes or no

[winter dock]

its a decent combo

[whole moon]

Lacks Cara if your not careful

[winter dock]

a tiny bit sort on range but not by a ton

short*

Kraks handle cara as long as you have regenning nades

and don't throw em willy

[nocturne mulch]

@formal lake maybe the comment just now from @mystic escarp explains the randoms going down all the time 😅

[vapid nacelle]

guys what blessings for shovel

I got an amazing roll on a shovel but I have literally nothing unlocked

[mystic escarp]

Real
Don’t want to play vet anymore. Something inside me just died

[dusk jacinth]

only in death does duty end fucking sucks lmao

[nocturne mulch]

Just use voice of command on cooldown

[dusk jacinth]

why does it have that many debuffs

[mystic escarp]

Decimator and that anti-armor thing

[nocturne mulch]

With the +50 toughness node

[winter dock]

Uncanny Strike, basically whatever else you prefer. Decimator is good

[mystic escarp]

It is not

[winter dock]

can shovel get bromentum?

[dusk jacinth]

yes!!!

+50 cooldown and lower radius just for revive on use

are they scared of anything on vets tree being good

[mystic escarp]

That thing saved so many runs

[vapid nacelle]

That revive has come in clutch quite a few times for me

[dusk jacinth]

its helpful as shit but that many debuffs

really

[vapid nacelle]

So many times where I just can't revive manually without getting interrupted

[dusk jacinth]

i can understand less radius

but +50 cooldowns a bit much

[mystic escarp]

Is it +50%?

[inner lava]

Revive is good if team plays bad. Spamming toughness prevents you and the team from going down in the first place

[nocturne mulch]

@mystic escarp for ALL of my builds I like to go Krak, Scavenger aura, Voice of Command with +toughness node, and then node to reduce combat ability cooldown on elite/special kill

[candid tundra]

Yup, the latest update ruined that playstyle for me and seemingly everyone else who used to enjoy anti-shooter infantry lasgun builds that used to be viable. They nerfed the already nerfed playstyle, and gave it a fucking movement restriction in a damned movement shooter. It's disappointing, really.

[dusk jacinth]

iron will

or the other thing

demolition

[winter dock]

Yes actually they are. Vet is a very strong baseline since its the gun class in the game about guns. Other classes certainly have good guns of their own, but the vet has the widest selection of weapons and thus the most potential for gamebreaking combos. Even with our tree as royally fucked as it is, we're still a very strong class overall if played right and if I recall correctly the most played in the game

[dusk jacinth]

yea

a minute is a bit much

[vapid nacelle]

I always take iron will

[dusk jacinth]

das all im saying

[nocturne mulch]

If you dont take the revive node then you can pretty much keep voice of command up indefinitely

[inner lava]

I see a lot of vets take exhilarating takedown

poor souls

[nocturne mulch]

+30% extra incoming damage LOL

[dusk jacinth]

idk about very strong

:eye s:

[inner lava]

fatshark magic

[nocturne mulch]

Vet is very strong tho

[mystic escarp]

Real. I’m so disappointed.
I was preparing myself to try it in a fields, was playing melee/support/exe stance plasma, but boy I was not prepared enough

[dusk jacinth]

what subtalents are good for focus

[winter dock]

RN most of vets strength is just our guns being good. Every since that big rebalance our guns have just been very innately good

Except the Recons, they got nerfed hard

but even then thats just an ammo problem

[mystic escarp]

Yup, -6 secs on elite/special kill is a must have

[winter dock]

nothing wrong with their damage- they just run dry too fast

[dusk jacinth]

should i just take all of focus-es subtalents

[winter dock]

The two on the left and the far right if you take it at all

[inner lava]

You'll be yelling your ass out with that talent, very good

[winter dock]

once you have acess to them there are no other nodes on the tree worth more so you should always give up to take them

you're really deciding between that entire chunk of nodes or 5 nodes elsewhere on the tree

[delicate estuary]

trully a based emperors gift

[mystic escarp]

Just 10 elites/specs away from cooldown :^)

[dusk jacinth]

does field improv work with teammates

or is it a me onlyh thing

[inner lava]

they really fucked agile engagement placement. Should've been near weapon specialist keystone

[ruby fulcrum]

Should just be rolled into the keystone imo

[mystic escarp]

Just take your smoke grenades and that sweet +5% movement speed aura my guy

[inner lava]

Idk ammo aura lets me turn off the brain and shoot everything

[mystic escarp]

And agile engagement will be just around the corner

[inner lava]

They can take their 5% meme and shove it

[vague hull]

i love 5% movement speed i feel the diff so much

./s

[dusk idol]

it’s team wide

[winter dock]

so I've confirmed essentially that the Marksman Focus finesse bonus is a flat addition to whatever bonus the gun already has

Which means its most effective on guns that already have a very low finesse bonuse (IE- guns with a very small gap between their normal, weakspot, crit, and weakspot crit damage values) so it'll give you the biggest relative change in damage. Guns which already have very high bonuses get very very little out of 100% extra finesse.

Which means the guns that benefit the most from it are the really fast firing weapons like the Braced autos and the Recon lasguns. With a VIIa it was a massive proportional increase in damage vs say a Plasma where the proportional increase was very very minor.

[ruby fulcrum]

That's hilarious

[mystic escarp]

Jesus

[winter dock]

a Plasma when charge-fired into a Plogryn until overheat will do something like 20kish damage, with Focus thats barely 22k or so (results vary with rolls/blessings and whether or not you crit)

But a Recon las which could do about 20k in a full clip ends up doing closer to 30

[nimble sentinel]

first off, oof

2: recon supremacy is back on the menu?

[dusk idol]

brauto’s aren’t accurate enough to get much out of marksman when you really need it to

[tight dragon]

what's the secret to BAG, feels way worse than my MKV so far

[winter dock]

Not really, ammo is a problem

[mystic escarp]

Gotta try marksmans focus with braced agri that will be hilarious

[dusk idol]

unless you’re crab walking or dodging to keep your stacks

[mystic escarp]

And some smoke grenades too

[winter dock]

If you can get your team to give you all the ammo on the map then their damage output is worth it

[ruby fulcrum]

Just run with 3 staff psykers ez

[winter dock]

but if you have to split ammo with your team the Recons are gonna run dry very very frequently

the VIIa in particular however is probably the single best anti-shooter gun in the game

[dusk idol]

short range mixed horde killer, and special clearer

[mystic escarp]

Okay now I have some hope

[dusk idol]

it’s kind of bad into flak but not horrible bad, just not outstanding.

[winter dock]

high fire rate, enough damage to one or two tap most shooters and 4-5 a gunner (3 with crits), and a big enough clip and good enough accuracy to fire at range without issue

[nimble sentinel]

throwing up a build now gimme a bit

[tight dragon]

so i'm supposed to shoot into walkers to keep my stacks up or smt?

[dusk idol]

for marksman focus?

[winter dock]

If you are very judicious with your ammo use you can probably use the VIIa very well

[mystic escarp]

I thought braced auto guns are more like anti armor things?

[azure zephyr]

Should I buy these pants?

[dusk idol]

brauto is kind of bad with it

[nimble sentinel]

I am a firm proponent of shooting the horde

[azure zephyr]

I think they work well with the outfit, but idk

[tight dragon]

deathspitter/fire frenzy

[nimble sentinel]

it's like eating the crust on your sandwich

[winter dock]

Brautos struggle to build stacks, but use them very well once you have them. So just do the silly crabwalk trick to keep stacks up

[nimble sentinel]

just shoot them before they can hit you

[dusk idol]

oh, yeah, or anything that’s close to you really

[winter dock]

bring a shovel, crouch-dodge with maxed out mobility

its a brauto so you're going to the right to take Onslaught anyways- pick up the crit on dodge

[dusk idol]

compared to something like the shredder, the brauto is good into flak

[serene bough]

same

no reason to run uptothem if you can get a few pot shots in beforehand

[tight dragon]

man, might try a bit more but yeah, might just try making a better MKV instead

[dusk idol]

but if you compared it to the sheer dps of the Columbus

eh

[azure zephyr]

If you want a horde removing machine and don't give a rat's behind about armored oponents I'm say recon las

[dusk idol]

the pro of the brauto is that it penetrates soft targets

[vapid nacelle]

The new tagging keystone is a fun buff to Laspistol

[winter dock]

Brautos chew through nearly everything, but only at close ranges

[azure zephyr]

Kantrael XII is good too, but it's a bit slow for melting hordes, and struggles against armor but it is generally good all around

[winter dock]

the Agri is the most precise so is usually much better at applying its damage than the others

[tight dragon]

considering Agri VII has stopping power bar i though it would do way more on armor over columbus

[winter dock]

it does yeah

it chews through everything

[mystic escarp]

It is not

[winter dock]

as long as you can hit it

[dusk idol]

columnus can shit ridiculous damage against flak

[tight dragon]

it does like 10 more per buller over my MKV

but it doesn't have the stupid ROF

[azure zephyr]

?

[atomic zephyr]

dude for some reason ive been doing so crap today

[winter dock]

Kant 12's biggest quality over the MG1a is that its way more ammo efficient. I'm not entirely sure why, but it just seems to consume alot less for the damage it does

[atomic zephyr]

like 6/7 missions and only 1 success

[dusk idol]

with the right build and blessing the Columbus feels like you’re shooting through soft targets even when you’re not

it’s sickening

COLUMNUS

this phone

[winter dock]

All the autoguns are god-tier atm

Amazingly good crit characteristics as a baseline except for the Brautos, and generally good damage into armor

high fire rates, their ammo doesn't suck ass anymore

they're just good

[dusk idol]

brautos are sitting at like A-, they’re solid but they have their limitations, and thus their role

[azure zephyr]

Vraks headhunter autogun might be my favorite autogun overall

[mystic escarp]

Mk 12 is a more like sharpshooter rifle to deal with gunners/specialists but you will suck in cqc and anti armor
It is far away from “good all around”

[south spindle]

So Veterans. I have drawn a diagram of what should be taken out (not based on bonus', only on position), if the tree was restructured to not have minor nodes in these locations would it be an improvement? Discuss.

[azure zephyr]

Fair enough not that you mention it.

[winter dock]

the 12 is a very specialized las yeah

[whole moon]

Just helped make a friend her first Columnus (to replace her aging Shredder) to say she's happy would be an understatement

[winter dock]

It's basically a helbore that doesn't need to charge

[dusk idol]

you forgot the top tax node

[azure zephyr]

The close quarters does... fall off I've noticed

so I started using power sword to make for it

[whole moon]

Lasweps have reverse damage falloff

[south spindle]

There has to be a little bit of taxation, because other classes also have these minor nodes you need to path through

[dusk idol]

not all of them, only the kantrael

[azure zephyr]

So what's the best lasgun for close in engagements aside from recon?

[forest blaze]

I like it. The tie node above the grenades should be gone too imo.

[dusk idol]

psyker, zealot and ogryn do not have double tax nodes before their blitz

[south spindle]

Personally i rate MK1a

MKIV on Zealot

[robust mirage]

did sir milk man, bless me?

[azure zephyr]

A classic

[winter dock]

They should just shift ALL the special effect nodes to the bottom side and remove all tax nodes before that point. Go straight into "Pick your nade, then pick your aura, then pick your ult" with no taxes or sidehops, then straight into the special effect nodes organized into their diagonal lines but with connector nodes inbetween every column at every horizontal level.

[dusk idol]

Jesus Psyker just gets to pick 4 toughness regen nodes to start with

[winter dock]

This way we can actually be flexible

[whole moon]

I wouldn't because of the nature of the weapons but if you insisted I'd say laspistol and maybe 1a

[south spindle]

What are these then?

[tight dragon]

it's supposedly way better rolled as well

welp

[nimble sentinel]

time to ruin someone's auric match

[dusk idol]

compare

[nimble sentinel]

for science

[nimble sentinel]

the gun btw

[winter dock]

Eh, you're missing onslaught so you'll struggle into armored

[nimble sentinel]

that's what the krak is for

[azure zephyr]

anyways for a good autogun to use for hordes and just overall Graia mk VIII is a great little gem

[winter dock]

No survivalist aura is pain on an already ammo deficient weapon

wait no I misread

[night sparrow]

is this salvagable? i haven't used the lucius yet

[winter dock]

you have survival

xd

[winter dock]

Go shredder and exe, save points, don't use your recon on hordes of poxxers- shooters/elites only.

[azure zephyr]

testing it out again and honestly... I'm falling in love all over again

[winter dock]

It'll deal with armored if you have onslaught- don't need kraks

shredders and a shovel will deal with hordes

[untold mulch]

Falter for Surgical

Sprint efficiency for I suppose carapace

Will be servicable

[mystic escarp]

Yeah, drop sprint efficiency for 25 flak and falter to crit blessing

[night sparrow]

thanks chiefs

[tight dragon]

didn't try headhunters yet, but at this point i'm too spoiled by the columnus

[untold mulch]

Does he need flak?

[winter dock]

If you really want Voice over Exe that's A-OK since you want to dip to right tree for onslaught anyways. Doesn't matter whether you take that sidestep in the middle or the bottom

[tight dragon]

i'll either go for laspistol or recon next

think laspistol is actually good tho

[winter dock]

Not really, all 3 hels will onetap everything softer than a scab flamer to begin with

[untold mulch]

Laspistol is nice

[solar sky]

They massively increased how aggressive the director is and hordes are actually hordy now. Might just take some time ot adjust

[nimble sentinel]

then I lose my grenades and full toughness on a <30s cooldown

[untold mulch]

Yep, that was my reasoning for Carapace

[nimble sentinel]

I can shoot a shooter when they aren't glowing yellow

[solar sky]

Updated my revolver guide for patch 15. One shotting crushers is fun. https://youtu.be/wKszHlxGWeM

[winter dock]

the weakspot damage is more what I'm concerned with but its utltimately optional- costs the same points regardless

[atomic zephyr]

im thrown off cause i was doing fine yesterday

not sure what happened

[winter dock]

just make sure to have Onslaught if you can, you won't need kraks

[solar sky]

Might just be an off day then. Happens to everyone ^^

[atomic zephyr]

yeee figured

[winter dock]

Tactical awareness isn't really needed either IMO but again it's mostly up to you

[untold mulch]

Is not a god roll, it should suffice for him until he gets a better roll

[winter dock]

that one was for Doctor Beefcakes testing of the VIIa not the helbore

[nimble sentinel]

I cannot, only got 3 points to spare and those are for tactical awareness + 1 that goes to field improv for usefulness

need 5 points to grab onslaught

[south spindle]

Yeah... other classes have these tax nodes too, just in different locations, the very top center one could go tho

[nimble sentinel]

even if I take execution I still lose out making it useful and lasting longer than I do with my many posters of Hadron 5 seconds

[untold mulch]

Oh

[nimble sentinel]

yewh my VIIa isn't perfect but it's what I got

[winter dock]

This is more what I would go with if I wanted to do voice

[untold mulch]

Execution needs some help

[untold mulch]

Hopefully they karking finally fix recon in part2

[winter dock]

Remove friendly fire mechanic- exe stance becomes easy

[south spindle]

Those really need buffs

[untold mulch]

Would use again

[nimble sentinel]

I'd love it but I'm not counting on it, besides I'm making the MGIV work

[south spindle]

A bunch of weapons already shoot through friendlies

[inner lava]

make friendly fire how it was in vermintide

[nimble sentinel]

ALRIGHT ENOUGH TALK LET'S ROCK

[south spindle]

Plasma, Revolver, Slug from Agri' shotgun for a few examples

[inner lava]

chaos ensues

[winter dock]

Plasma... uh.. sometimes a Vraks VII. I think the bolter does by default

[south spindle]

Not sure about Boltgun, but i assume so yeah

[untold mulch]

I am using laspistol until Recon fix or Hellgun drop

[south spindle]

I dont like it personally

[untold mulch]

I cope every day

[winter dock]

Recons would be perfectly viable if they just had like, double their reserve

[south spindle]

Like they nailed it as a gun, but the recoil reset animation is janky as fuck an pretty jarring

[winter dock]

literally double the reserve and suddenly they're basically perfect

survival aura restores double the ammo since its reserve based, as do tins/sacs

[nimble sentinel]

MG IV is real good, standard infantry lasgun blessings keep it competitive against shooters and DPS is stellar on the bigger bastards

[south spindle]

TTK is still super long vs Maniac tho, that needs to be fixed also

[nimble sentinel]

just gotta manage recoil, but that's what we vets do

[winter dock]

They can't be perfect- or there'd be no reason to not use them

[untold mulch]

Yeah it feels like Fatshark is affraid of making them the lasee sprayers they are meant to be

[winter dock]

hell just 50% more reserve might be ideal, keep them a bit on the ammo hungry side just so they have a balance point

[dusk idol]

yeah it should, should be the first to go imo

[winter dock]

as opposed to a cripple point

[untold mulch]

900 on reserve would be

[winter dock]

also differing reserves for the different marks

[south spindle]

Nah, i dont mean buff it through the roof, just buff it enough that its not totally hamstringing the gun, because Maniac is the predominant amount of actually deadly threats, a gun that cant kill them is a liability at best

[winter dock]

the fact that a VId and a VIIa have the same clip/reserve is a joke

sure the VII consumes twice as much- but that's arguably even worse

[winter dock]

Not really. Ragers, Muties, and Trappers can all be dealt with without your gun- and are often better dealt with in such fashion. A shovel, for example, does very well into them. As do the parry swords

[south spindle]

@dusk idol Better? thats a bunch of points cut out the tree, enough for better build diversity

[south spindle]

You're not fighting 15 ragers with a Shovel mate, an i love the Shovel, its just not realistic

[winter dock]

you aren't fighting 15 ragers

[dusk idol]

I would keep the bottom tax nodes but interlink the three trees, but that’s my perfect world

[winter dock]

if you are you're the only person alive on the your team and the match is already over

[south spindle]

Yeah.. you do in Maelstrom

[inner lava]

You're not fighting 15 ragers with anything lul

[south spindle]

All the time

[winter dock]

Alone

If you're team is alive you're fighting like 3 or 4

tops

[safe quiver]

why most builds dont use the VoC "only in death does duty end" modifier ?

[nimble sentinel]

Time for the world's quickest update!

It feels gross to play. Damage is meh, teammates killed everything before I can deal the killing blows meaning no stacks, meaning no damage

[untold mulch]

With the Emperor on your side 🙏

[elder vessel]

Ogryn Nuke

[nimble sentinel]

also my teammates were fighting over the braincell in the carnival horde

[inner lava]

Big E is on vacation for us vets

[south spindle]

Thats not the point. If you want a gun to be viable, it cant be hamstrung against the most dangerous enemies in the game

[dusk idol]

because it’s nice but not necessary

[untold mulch]

Left side is flawed af

Imo

[south spindle]

You can buff the ammo out the wazzoo, but if you're not killing things fast enough, you might as well not have brought it

[midnight mortar]

*not even no damage, just no bigger crit damage when you crit

[dusk idol]

and veterans are tight on points and like spamming VoC

[nimble sentinel]

going back to the MG IV for now

[safe quiver]

havent tried yet but just took it over Grenade Tinkerer

[nimble sentinel]

a much better las spam feeling

[south spindle]

MKIV is underrated now ngl

[dusk idol]

lmk how you go

[elder vessel]

pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew

[serene sage]

oh how I miss Thy Grenade Be Swift

[untold mulch]

Middle keystone feels the only one that doesnt look like it was build for a specific playstyle loadoud

[serene sage]

please let us have it back wtf

[south spindle]

Having the Full Auto mod is a pretty much a hard requirement for MKIV tho if you value your hands

[nimble sentinel]

THANK YOU! I will die on this hill except I won't because my gun karkin' rocks

[winter dock]

Its not an easy weapon to use. You need to be judicious and careful with your ammo, but its damage is good. Stacks are tough to manage in general- and the VII is no exception. Unless you want to abuse the Crabhopping with a shovel

[south spindle]

Try it on a Piety Zealot mate, with Deadly Accurate + Headhunter blessings, its basically like an always on Deadshot

[winter dock]

the MK IV is a very very good las yeah

its consistent and easy, very forgiving of minor mistakes in accuracy and ammo efficient to boot

it trades raw damage output for most of that, but that's not a super huge concern as long as you're team isn't already lacking damage output

[nimble sentinel]

honestly I had more fun getting stacks with the IV than the recon, it used to be my favourite gun :C