veteran-class

[kind scarab]

After full bore is proc'd you good for long range

[sleek cairn]

psword6, wut perks u guys running? Unyielding and unyielding?

[junior needle]

Everything on there apart from the tree is just filler. You can use whatever you want, although I use a bleed knife so that gets extra value from onslaught (dots apply onslaught stacks) so that's more motivation for me to take it. I was also testing infernus to leverage onslaught stacking.

Normally neither infernus nor onslaught would be good on an infantry las build, so if you aren't doing that you can reallocate points elsewhere. Infernus barely adds damage and is there for onslaught stacking, but is applied fairly consistently because I'm critmaxxing.

Here's the gun I used for that run.

[orchid cloak]

i still need ghost 4

[dusty ferry]

Because I enjoy spray and pray

[solar garden]

Why Infernus, of all things? Anything short of a boss is going to be already dead by the time you shoot enough to proc the crit, or ON the crit itself.

[solar garden]

That's fair. Fun is a thing.

[mortal horizon]

are any of the augments for weapon specialists good besides the ammo reload one? I have 3 points left in my frag, shout, weapon specialist build and not sure what to use them on

[grand pumice]

Thoughts on DumDum in regards to me doing a Infiltrator High Mobility Skirmisher Veteran?

[solar garden]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[grand pumice]

what other blessing should i rock with if not dumdum

[sleek cairn]

fun in the vet channel? we only minmax here. there is no fun

we'll make sure nobody has fun again!

[junior needle]

Don't recommend any of the recons currently, but especially avoid 7a and 2

[orchid cloak]

brunt has blessed me

[dusty ferry]

Mhm. I do enjoy the shotgun but I just didn’t feel like it

[solar garden]

A different weapon entirely. Recon Las is still the worst ranged weapon in the entire game XD

[grand pumice]

i swear i heard 7a was good

[kind scarab]

I mean, tiny bless

Both are T2

[junior needle]

I was also testing infernus to leverage onslaught stacking.

Was my way of trying to fit crusher killing and better flak damage into infantry las usage while retaining my lazyman bodyshot preference.

[grand pumice]

dnc still rocking it

[whole moon]

Last I heard after their nerf, the recons are getting a complete rework

Just rumour tho

[orchid cloak]

look this is the best thing hes given me in MONTHS

[junior needle]

If you did, you've been misinformed. The dps is woefully low. I don't know who this dnc is.

[kind scarab]

He knows you don't need it

You're well armed

Unlike all the other people in soloq

[crisp bronze]

If you can get it, Iron Will is always solid. Depending on your weapons the 30% weakpoint bonus is nice too.

[kind scarab]

[solar garden]

Mmkay, but I'm not leaving you ammo when you burn through it 6 times as fast as anyone else 🙂

[grand pumice]

im having fun in malice with my Crackhead Build

[orchid cloak]

okay back the au maelstrom grind

[serene sage]

Ew we have a casual here

[kind scarab]

Soloq?

[orchid cloak]

ofc

is there any other way?

[kind scarab]

If you have a scoreboard, show me

[orchid cloak]

okie

[kind scarab]

I want to see what your teammates are doing

[tawdry swan]

Omg it feels so cool to use but it ducks so much dick

[grand pumice]

damn i say I play casually and suddenly im treated like im infected with a blessing of nurgle like ????

[kind scarab]

I need to know if I'm just cursed or what

[south spindle]

Vet shovel poke is so sick man Just poke a mutant in the face to stop the charge lmao

[tawdry swan]

why did they feel the ned to destroy it man

[grand pumice]

i thought you guys were supposed to be nice

[solar garden]

Ah. Well, IMO, I'd go for Opening Shot, but that's just me 🙂

[orchid cloak]

i joined late in this one

so its gonna be skewed

[kind scarab]

You called it a blessing

[sleek cairn]

um what?

[kind scarab]

Heretic spotted

[sleek cairn]

did something happen to u brother

[kind scarab]

ALL OF MY GAMES SINCE THE UPDATE HAVE BEEN WITH SMOOTHBRAINS

[crisp bronze]

Poke it in the face with a Power Sword to kill it!

[serene sage]

Anyone here wants to play. Ik lfg channel exists but forgive my laziness

[kind scarab]

I can't get THREE ROOMS IN

Without everyone dying

[sleek cairn]

sir, this is the veteran channel. we solo auric maelstroms, no bots, drunk, and blindfolded using controllers.

[solar garden]

ikr? You literally have to crutch on 'free shots' with a maxed out crit build just to try to get the ammo econ up to something semi-manageable, at the cost of stam management and STILL being less effective than a similar weapon.

[south spindle]

Nah, PSword is for noob

[grand pumice]

listen here NERD, [im here on behalf of [REDACTED] and im making sure tertium doesnt fall, hush up. Hydra Dominatus]

[junior needle]

I'm autofiring both the 1a and the 4, so I wouldn't get much value out of it. I had headhunter in the infernus slot before but obviously I need to headshot to get value from that and I'm building to avoid doing that.

It's very much a roundabout method of getting lazy value. One shot headshots are still the most efficient method.

[kind scarab]

Sounds like something a heretic spy would say

[sleek cairn]

But yeah, vet clutch potential is extremely high, u should be ok with smoothbrains

just dont hear the poxburster and pretend they'll push it. They wont. they wont do anything and u'll eat it together

[serene sage]

I love clutching

Especially my pearls

[solar garden]

Hnnmmm.. then yeah, I see your point. IMO that's not the best way to use a Kantrael but, to each their own and you make valid points 🙂

[grand pumice]

Youre quick to accuse, mayhaps you have something hide? Something you want to say to the Rejects?

[kind scarab]

That only works, if they don't stay 3 rooms back, letting themselves constantly get swarmed by enemies and we never move forward

[south spindle]

This has been, sadly, a very common experience of late

[sleek cairn]

i havent had a match like that yet

what region are u in

lol

[kind scarab]

EU

[sleek cairn]

oh jesus..

i have no idea what EU side is like

[south spindle]

But people are starting to push into AM, so its just how it is, they gotta learn somehow

[sleek cairn]

u could grab 1 pal so u coax them forward

[solar garden]

It's all the kill-hungry newbies and console kiddies thinking they're gonna get the "high score" and rub their e-peen in everyone's face ala CoD

[grand pumice]

I still didnt get my answer about Dumdum and if I should keep it on my Accatran Recon Lasgun MKVIIa

[kind scarab]

Yes

[south spindle]

We had a fresh level 30 Oggy in a game earlier, bless him, he was trying, but he was getting bogged down an left behind a lot

[mortal horizon]

I have the 30% weakpoint rn
this is what im rocking sorry its so fucking big its hard to see shrunk.I have 3 points. I cant make it to iron will unless i give up something else,
i could also take grenade tinkerer + go over and get the 10% melee node. Or take agile engagement (instead of tinkerer)

I'll try to experiment but just looking for some input with people who have done more testing

[kind scarab]

Dumdum is good on lasguns

[grand pumice]

bet

[junior needle]

It's was one game for testing, I'd need more time to work with it. As I said in another post, normally I would never recommend infernus or onslaught on infantry lasguns.

And obviously, this won't slide on a k12 and is less effective if you aren't critmaxxing.

[grand pumice]

infiltrate + Magdumping a whole squad then gtfo

[sleek cairn]

What loadout, guns

[grand pumice]

sounds like a plan

[mortal horizon]

was planning plasma + ps6.
but i also rock agri braced, revolver sometimes

[forest blaze]

If you’re taking frags, consider taking tinker. It’s a huge boost

[sleek cairn]

If so, u dont need onslaught

[south spindle]

Given how quickly a lot of them fold without support i think its more that its newbies/consolers trying to break into the harder settings

[serene sage]

Fun fact Europe was founded when Texas Ranger Walker rode his horse through the Atlantic in 1848. He named it Eastern USA, or EU for short.

[sleek cairn]

my god fox

[solar garden]

6% damage or garbage damage is still garbage. 😛

[sleek cairn]

you've enlightened me

[solar garden]

Oh absolutely what I meant.

[whole moon]

Urge to kill rising 😉

[solar garden]

Oh yeah, I getcha. I wasn't trying to throw shade. You were experimenting, I get it 🙂

[serene sage]

😄

[mortal horizon]

thought maybe i would bc im not taking ogryn dmg node Bring em Down! might need breakpoints. I'll test it out. but ok maybe drop onslaught and grab tinkerer, +10% melee + agile engagement if im running plasma?
Keep onslaught if im running Br Auto and drop agile engagement?

[sleek cairn]

The key thing is if u dont go down to iron will, u also dont get the 6s cooldown reduction on special kill

[serene sage]

maybe onslaught is the friends we made along the way

[grand pumice]

Damn have you ever heard of being nice? You should try it some time.

[mortal horizon]

true, its either that, or 30% weakpoint, or giving up tinkerer lol

this tree suckssss

[sleek cairn]

it's not that the tree sucks, we're just greedy

[junior needle]

I 100% understand the reaction to anyone using infernus on an infantry las, don't worry

[sleek cairn]

we want everything

[mortal horizon]

i could give up Iron will. Grab the cooldown on elite. and grab tinkerer as well

[solar garden]

I am being nice, and it's nothing personal. Just because I'm dunking on the gun doesn't mean I'm dunking on you.

[mortal horizon]

if i give up onslaught

but i cant get agile engagement or the 10% melee dmg node

[sleek cairn]

I suggest grabbing iron will and ignore tinkerer if ur going frag nades

[grand pumice]

Youve been pretty condescending in general when im asking a pretty simple question

[tawdry swan]

i love it when im on damnation and my teammates response to poxwalkers is to backpedal slowly while staring at them in fear

[mortal horizon]

tinkerer is best on frags i thought lol

[sleek cairn]

You already use 6s cdr + Shout and overshield and frags. if u grenade tinkerer ur frags, ur double downing on the CC

[south spindle]

Agile is so hard to put down, its straight up value town on builds with Laspistol/Revolver

[forest blaze]

My favorite is the team shooting them at point blank so that it kills all of us

[forest blaze]

It is

[sleek cairn]

there's no need to lean so hard on the CC lol, drop the grenade tinkerer since it doesnt give stun immunity anymore @mortal horizon

it's just frags

[cold shell]

you were ready for knife/charge zealot
you were not ready for knife/swap veteran

[forest scaffold]

Headhunter and Infernus are largely the best blessings on recon lasguns

[sleek cairn]

u have shout to cover u incase

[junior needle]

I'm surprised you didn't opt for deadshot on that one, but if you're headshotting consistently you probably don't need it

[forest scaffold]

While Fatshark removed crit strings from the recon lasguns, Storm Trooper or whatever its called still gives you amazing ammo economy when engaging elites/specials/ranged adds.

You just can't mag dump everything anymore

[civic bay]

knife/revolver veteran with bleed, agile engagement, onslaught, and right keystone seems like it'll be incredibly effective

[serene sage]

pretty sure we were 2 patches ago

[mortal horizon]

gonna try this with plasma for now i guess.
Are there any other weapon specialist augments worth getting? dropped tinkerer for iron will

[kind scarab]

Yeah, if you're landing as many HS's as this thing can pump out you don't need it at all

[cold shell]

this is gonna be dumb as hell

[sleek cairn]

Do you prefer they shoot at it immediately while u push

[serene sage]

i like your build! sold

[solar garden]

I'm sorry you took it that way. I just fking hate recon las as a gun, and I'm irritated by people that insist on bringing it into endgame content because it guzzles ammo and takes resources from the team.
Therefore anyone that brings one is, whether they realize it or not, handicapping themselves, and by extension the team.
I'm honestly trying to be cordial, and I didn't say anything against you. I just absolutely hate that gun. And it's not just me, if you noticed, several other people have also chimed in to politely inform you that it's a piece of garbage.

[plush dragon]

talent tree rework made some of my favorite builds unviable and one of my favorites, the best

https://tenor.com/view/the100-finn-finn-collins-netflix-seriously-gif-20405743

[south spindle]

Whats most sad about Recons is that they've been like that since launch

[digital gazelle]

Im getting tired of drooling idiots aggroing the DH

[kind scarab]

Recon 6d is more functional now than the last update, I'll give it that much

[jolly jacinth]

yeah....

[kind scarab]

But it still ain't up on the same level as say a colum IAG

[solar garden]

Yup!
IDK if you played beta, but they were insane then. Trivialized just about anything, so they got turbo-nerfed 6ft under on launch. :/

[kind scarab]

You gotta go full glass cannon and land as many headshots as humanly possible if you want to go the match without picking up ammo

[junior needle]

Just to note, they didn't remove crit strings from recons, just reduced them to 2 across the board from 3/4/5. Shock trooper was also changed to effectively only give you no ammo usage on the first crit in a string. If dumdum is still bugged them it's very likely better than infernus on a 7a in most circumstances apart from boss damage, due to its high damage/slower firing nature.

[midnight mortar]

Except for the brief month of patch 13. RIP the VId. 🫡

[south spindle]

I didnt play Vet in beta no, i started on Ogg an Zealot so i missed the crazy times :/

[eternal sable]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/250356056855674880/1153781473938264124/image0-5.gif

[sleek cairn]

the 20% toughness every 3 seconds is alright. but playing better will save u more toughness than that lol.

I do have a proposition. If you decide to path Krak or Smoke nades, u can grab agile engagement, reacquire Grenade tinkerer since u wanted it so much, 5% crit and 10% melee dmg

if u insist on survivalist, give all of that up

that's your call @mortal horizon

[south spindle]

I legit still dont know why they nerfed it.. it was so good to have it be usable, but i guess because so many people started using it (duh, its a fun gun when it does damage) it was a knee-jerk reaction from FS

[junior needle]

The 6d isn't itself in a better spot, it's exactly the same, it's just that the tree is better at letting you get blood from the stone with high amounts of effort. Also ammo node being easier to pickup is nice.

[midnight mortar]

They saw that one clip of a VId mowing down a poxwalker horde solo down a long hallway without reloading and thought it was too strong.

[gusty sonnet]

Well I guess it dominates too much on sedition, being recoilless and having ammo refund 🤷‍♂️

[kind scarab]

Lets be honest. Being able to kill a crusher and only using 8 rounds of ammo. Effectively letting you kill over 10 crushers per clip, was definitely too strong.

^^^

[junior needle]

With 100% headshot uptime*

[south spindle]

For sure, but there was better ways they could have gone about fixing that as opposed to making the crit chains worthless

[kind scarab]

Which isn't hard to do on the 6d

Thing has 0 recoil

[sleek cairn]

@mortal horizon the best way to decide if u need survivalist is note how many ammo packs u guys skip during a run. If u guys leave like half of it untouched, yeah ur going overkill lol. great for newer players to gauge .

Most ppl in this channel will insult u for poor ammo economy. i think it's just a learning curve

[south spindle]

Particularly given that they then nerfed most of the Rending stuff shortly after

[midnight mortar]

They key here was that patch 13 Recons were only good because of their interaction with the talent tree. Not because their base weapon characteristics made them worthwhile.

[whole moon]

Don't forget it's all still WiP

[delicate estuary]

my main issue with 6d is you cant see what you are shooting

[solar garden]

THIS.
Too many people don't realize the diff between something being good, and being able to "make it work"
Like, yes, with a good team, enough skill, the right circumstances, an easy level, luck, etc. You can make anything work... but that doesn't mean it's a good thing to bring/choose/etc.

[midnight mortar]

Rather than gutting the weapon, the changes they did to the talent tree would have more than sufficed to balance Recons.

[delicate estuary]

well thankfully fun is more important than what you should bring

[kind scarab]

technically. The weapon was buffed in all ways, for close range damage.

[delicate estuary]

being shoehorned into stuff just cause its better than others is not interactive

[kind scarab]

It's the changes to crit strings and shocktrooper that make it bad rn

[midnight mortar]

I wouldn't call a reduction of ranged flak damage down to 50% a buff.

[solar garden]

So... losing repeatedly because you've hamstrung yourself and your team is fun for you? okay. 🙂

[midnight mortar]

But I understand what you mean.

[delicate estuary]

then be better 🙂 then you dont have to hamstring your team

[tawdry swan]

what is the must-have setup to get the most out of recon? i know it sucks but just wondering

[kind scarab]

Not many people take engagements at that level of range where the 50% total damage mattered

[gusty sonnet]

That and shocktrooper CD

[south spindle]

It is up to a point, but bringing a bad build into AM, unless of course you're good enough to compensate for the builds shortfalls, is not fun for everyone else, because they have to carry much harder

[kind scarab]

Let alone are able to aim that far, if you've played soloq

[junior needle]

The recoil is low, but the shot line wanders, which can be quite annoying at longer ranges. Also much more difficult to achieve that in practical circumstances, but then I should remind everyone that the helbores could (and still can) get just as good if not better practical ammo economy without needing headshots.

[delicate estuary]

its insane to me to assume that you would try to limit people what they are allowed to play

[junior needle]

You could kill a crusher with a surgical helbore using 0 ammo, and still can

[kind scarab]

It's cause they wanted people to play the other guns that are clearly not broken at all

[south spindle]

I dont think anyone is telling anyone what to play, more giving advice like "hey, this gun falls off pretty sharply in higher settings, you might want to consider something else till its fixed up a bit"

[kind scarab]

Like the revolver

[sleek cairn]

it actually is insane. But usually conversation starts with "so and so sucks donkey balls."

Somebody was trashing on how bad psword 6 was. This channel wasn't happy.

[kind scarab]

And the Colum

[solar garden]

You're right. Friend me up. Imma play with my controls reversed and one-handed because that's fun for me. You don't mind if I get 3 kills the entire time, right?

[delicate estuary]

psword 6 is fine just manage your spacing

and besides the bitching about people not being good enough

is counterintuitive on how you imrove

how are you supposed to improve by not trying stuff out or what

what kind of learning experiences have you had

[solar garden]

@delicate estuary Answer the question

[south spindle]

Its a hot take, but my god Powerswords need another nerf

[delicate estuary]

strawman arguments the best in town

[civic bay]

It's not a black and white situation. There's a certain level of effectiveness (or lack thereof) where you're bringing yourself down, and another line where you're bringing the team down. You don't need to run meta to avoid the latter.

[delicate estuary]

not gonna bother

[sleek cairn]

man you guys need to stfu, who cares

[solar garden]

It's not a strawman, it's an extreme.

[kind scarab]

Hell nah, I'mma bitch at people if they wait 3 rooms in the back and not push forward for no reason other than seeing one single lone NONE ELITE GUNNER shooting at them

[sleek cairn]

this ain't a wendy's but i get it

[delicate estuary]

you are comparing intentional griefing with people ttrying to have fun

[junior needle]

The 2 got buffed (not nearly enough, then nerfed with crit strings and shock trooper changes), but the 6d got sizable number nerfs baseline. It wasn't just a simply falloff swap. 7a was untouched directly but also indirectly nerfed.

[delicate estuary]

stop taking the game so serious

[civic bay]

And I'd argue that it's fine to use weaker items/builds as long as it's not dragging the whole team down significantly (such as eating all the ammo pickups)

[solar garden]

My point is, there IS a limit, even for you and people that are of the "play what's fun" crowd.

[sharp ember]

they just need to do something about Power Cycler and baseline psword

[solar garden]

Eventually, it's considered "trolling"
Only argument is where you draw taht line, and where I do.

[terse idol]

well I play to have "fun™️"

[delicate estuary]

not related to the whole gear thing but I agree but I usually just let them be and if shit doesnt get improved I just exit mission and go next

[terse idol]

I'm gonna bring in not what's perfect meta

But what's Vialbe

[south spindle]

Rework is probably the best bet, lets be honest

[terse idol]

Viable

[delicate estuary]

I draw the line at trolling not just trying to play the game

[untold mulch]

Flak, Shocktrooper, Crit strings

Recon VId was exterminatus out of the face of atoma

[digital gazelle]

Would a blessing from a headhunter autogun work on other autoguns?

[delicate estuary]

the game is not hard enough to require anyone to play "meta" or min maxed builds

[terse idol]

Yes there is a line where you have to draw of like, having a working build to play Damnation

[gusty sonnet]

Nu-uh

[cosmic needle]

whats good blessings on the hellbore lasguns?

[terse idol]

You don't have to be minmaxed

[frank ether]

went from 0 to 100 and then back down to 0 real quick

[civic bay]

Post patch 15, is there any weapon that's not viable?
(genuine question)

[solar garden]

idc about viable, that's fine. Of all the ranged weapons availble to the Vet, I only bagged on ONE of them. I consider all the rest viable to one extent or another.

[kind scarab]

I'm fine with people bringing in whatever weapons they want, as long as they actually: 1) Stick with the team. 2) Try shooting stuff. 3) Not sit three zones in the back, with their fingers up their nose

[terse idol]

But you prooobably shouldn't build such a terrible build that it's not gonna work

Well yeah

[delicate estuary]

I would have stopped playing DT a long time if I had to perma run shout

[solar garden]

Wanna talk strawman? Making me out to be a metahumper is a strawman

[terse idol]

That is about right Doc

[delicate estuary]

cause its the most viable

[sleek cairn]

actually none.

[delicate estuary]

[south spindle]

No, its not, but it is hard enough that if you're going into Maelstrom you should at least be bringing a build that can contribute

[terse idol]

No I get iiiit

[kind scarab]

Like look at this game from earlier

[south spindle]

An i think thats why people tend towards being rather blunt with balancing topic

[kind scarab]

The guy is literally at the start of the room

[delicate estuary]

any build can contribue just requires spatial awareness from people

[civic bay]

if you dump your mag on every enemy then pretty much every gun will run out of ammo

[delicate estuary]

if you have a marksman vet and you leave him alone 24/7 then good luck having him to do anything the entire game

acting like maelstrom mistakes are entirely up to singular people

[slow spade]

the spawn director sees the sharpshooter and immediately cues up 20 bombers

[mortal horizon]

ya, thats a good choice. are smoke grenades useable?
kraks just feel useless with a plasma and ps. They dont serve the purpose of makiung space/clearing

[south spindle]

All things are not equal, you're never going to contribute as much with a recon as someone using the same build but with a Columnus for example. An the difference is gargantuan, its not a little bit, its massive

[junior needle]

He's covering the rear

[kind scarab]

He wasn't covering the rear

[minor brook]

columnus is overpowered

[kind scarab]

He was constantly getting killed back there

[celest vine]

Fartshart moment

[kind scarab]

and we had to go back and pick him up

[minor brook]

wtf is this damage

[junior needle]

I know

[kind scarab]

[sleek cairn]

smoke grenades are more than usable! they manipulate enemy AI.

[delicate estuary]

you wont contribute at anything that isnt shout vet there you go

now you are shoehorned to play shout vet

[forest blaze]

Krak saves you ammo at least

[kind scarab]

Mid capstone vet gives toughness, stamina and damage to whole team.

Better than shout vet

[south spindle]

I thought you didnt want to deal with strawmans? Best not lean on the side of hypocrisy when im just trying to have a conversation with you

[sleek cairn]

and yeah everybody knows kraks

[junior needle]

You can take both!

[delicate estuary]

shout vet not a keystone tho

[mortal horizon]

what 20% every 3 seconds do you mean lol

[solar garden]

SMokes are a great example of what the current ruckus is about. Are they functional? Yeah, kinda. Barely.
Are they a good idea to bring? Not really. 99% of scenerios you'd be better off killing/stunning enemies than just breaking LoS and half-blinding your team in the process.

[kind scarab]

Time to take both, like soldier said

[sleek cairn]

oh that's just the node at the bottom right.

it's servicable if u're dying often

[delicate estuary]

yea but we are going on a loop argument of what is not as efficient as something else which means I am going to have to repeat myself

[sleek cairn]

tailor it to ur own style

that's the best build.

if u start dying, then i gave u bad advice that doesnt suit u

im definitely in the wrong and u should choose what makes u live lol

[tawdry swan]

or ur just bad

[delicate estuary]

I still play exe stance marksman focus vet when there is 1 million AOE abilities to make sure I am useless

[slow spade]

cue me taking Target Down + Exhilerating Takedown + Confirmed Kill for maximum Born Leader value 😎

[mortal horizon]

oh On your toes? you just meant as like an optionj to flesh out weapon specialist ya. i was wonderin gif the stam regain one could be good too.
ill try a few variations see how it feels

[sleek cairn]

hey now

[forest blaze]

I mean… you’re being nonsensically hostile towards the dumbest thing

[tranquil quail]

Sorry just wanted to ask if anyone knows, does the new autogun skin work on non braced models? I really like it but prefer not to use braced is all

[delicate estuary]

not sure when you joined the conversation but this isnt the first time people are anal about what should and shouldnt be run

[kind scarab]

You're actually going full big brain there, cause Ex Takedown makes you take more damage, so you can regen more toughness, so you can heal your team more

[south spindle]

Its not about efficiency, its about bringing something known to be wildly undertuned to the point where if you bring it into the hardest settings, you're going to be putting the work you would otherwise be doing on the shoulders of the rest of the team because the weapon isnt even remotely competative, regardless of what you do with it

[slow spade]

you understand me :D

[forest blaze]

Luckily you don’t get to choose when I can join conversations, homie. Just pointing out that you’re being nonsensically hostile.

[delicate estuary]

I had someone tell me to unalive myself for running a mk12 in an auric so I just get triggered when I see people try to say what should and should not be ran

[keen wharf]

You ever have a Run go so bad that you delete every Hellbore Good and Bad in your Inventory?

[tawdry swan]

dont get triggered then

\

[orchid cloak]

@kind scarab

https://tenor.com/view/starship-troopers-doing-my-part-stoked-team-teamwork-gif-5546341

[minor brook]

oh no bro

[kind scarab]

Your teammates are doing more than mine do

[minor brook]

also it really feels like helbores arent that good this patch

[kind scarab]

hand'em over

I need'em

[orchid cloak]

want me instead kekw

[delicate estuary]

yea but thats a bad mentality to begin with no? Having to rely on something extremely overtuned to play the game and then setting a bar that everyone else has to meet is rather toxic for player interaction wouldnt you agree

[solar garden]

THIS

[sleek cairn]

YEAH, it's not even a run. it's just the ogryn's existance that made me do that

loool

but im not @keen wharf

[slow spade]

AI spawns are PISSED this update, Helbore is good just enemies are way too aggressive imo

[sleek cairn]

who knows what made him do it

[kind scarab]

Sure, at least you know what you're doing

[mortal horizon]

still 1 point short of getting 30% weakpoint dmg if i build it with kraks and try the same things lol this tree is brutal

[orchid cloak]

wait hold on

[willow badger]

whatre your fave iags

[orchid cloak]

yours do less? thats like

the bare minimum

hold on

[willow badger]

i'm liking columnus rn but just rolled a good graia

[delicate estuary]

hellbore is fine but I think MK3 is way too slow for the sheer amount of shit that gets spawned

[keen wharf]

its weird because i can do much more with any other gun but Helbore is just my Bane.

[delicate estuary]

and well pubs are not known to give you space

[sleek cairn]

you're super close, TEST your breakpoints and see what u can 1-2 shot in psykhanium. Maybe precision wasnt needed

[orchid cloak]

i do wish the stat tracket tracked deaths

kind of an important stat context wise no?

[delicate estuary]

damage taken is more important than deaths imo

[slow spade]

no because its always 0 😎
\

[minor brook]

its very meh i feel because it gives no pen

[keen wharf]

i can hit something in the head better with the Columnus Mk V then i can with a Helbore from 40m away.

[south spindle]

No... there are degrees of usefulness, i play a melee build with a Shovel for instance, its decent, but its not super strong, its not broken, its just decent enough. Recon is not decent, it has an extended TTK on any maniac an eats a horrific amount of ammo. If it was decent, but not world breaking, people wouldnt say that its a bad choice, they might say its not fantastic, but they wouldnt say that its hot garbage. There are many weapons which are good enough to put in work but arent god-tier, but there are also weapons that are currently just, well, bad

[solar garden]

Helbore needs that stupid-long Ready animation shaved off. You already have to ADS and charge a shot. In a game like DT where fractions of a second count, that's already enough of a "balancing factor" for the weapon's power, IMO.

[minor brook]

cant shoot through your ogryn

does nothing against crusher

charge rate is tied to server

[slow spade]

also plasma and revolver exist lol

[minor brook]

also you can just use plasma

[solar garden]

YUP

[minor brook]

and it hits infinitely harder and cleaves

only problem is ammo if you go plasma

[forest blaze]

aaaaaand plasma can shoot through your brain dead ogryn mates

[slow spade]

the switch time argument lost its value to me once they added plasma and revolver memes

[umbral scaffold]

plasma revolver when

[orchid cloak]

idk i feel they are both important you take shit tons of damage but not dying you are at least alive to help but you are using a ton of resources doing so perhaps

[solar garden]

And a well-rolled MK12 is like 80-90% of the stopping power of a Helbore (except for Carapace piercing) with none of the drawbacks and... actually has a fking SCOPE THAT YOU CAN SEE THROUGH LMAO

[forest blaze]

Plasma pistol, my friend.

[slow spade]

brb contacting the Archmagos asap

[minor brook]

helbore mk2 does nothing

tbh

[delicate estuary]

yea but maniacs should not be a priority for a gun heavy vet imo. Ranged elites, shooting trash units and specials are more important than the ragers that any of your melee classes can deal with and even psykers

[umbral scaffold]

nah i want the crossbread

[kind scarab]

I like bread

[slow spade]

combi-bolter with a plasma gun when?

[minor brook]

every time i use helbore mk2 i wish i was using plasma

[forest blaze]

Sounds delicious

[south spindle]

My guy, 90% of specials are maniacs.

[umbral scaffold]

🦬

[south spindle]

If your gun struggles to drop those, you wipe

[sleek cairn]

@formal lake are u psyker main now

[keen wharf]

to be Fair i did have Helbores that could 2 Shot Crushers, just the timing between shots gets me hit and the sights piss me off.

[left zealot]

@formal lake What build are you running on your gun psyker? You were talking about it just earlier.

[slow spade]

I still find it funny that scab flamer is maniac for some reason but bomber is flak

[solar garden]

Emperor.. tell me this was a joke XD

[kind scarab]

DD+Scry+Colum if I had to guess

[sleek cairn]

same thought

[orchid cloak]

also the build for the curious

my poor lil slinkie

[delicate estuary]

yea not sure which one would be problematic other than muties but those you dont even magdump just dodge and melee them. Trappers and flamers should be easy enough to headshot

[junior needle]

To note, the recons are varying degrees of bad. 6d remains the most feasible usable but still requires an inordinate amount of compensating to account for its innate weakness. Here's a 2 and 7a recon, 80% gray, talentless on muties.

[solar garden]

Ragers are a priority target BEFORE they close to melee LMAO

[vagrant narwhal]

only thing annoying me about hellbores is bayonet not counting as melee kill for weapons specialist

[kind scarab]

Dog with three legs look'n tree

[mortal horizon]

so im not close to the 2 hit breakpoint on crushers with my ps. Do you need 25% carapace perk for it?
how am i missing so much dmg damn. Do you need the +20% ogryn dmg?

[sleek cairn]

i like drawing pics with my tree too

[delicate estuary]

why are we shooting muties in the back

[slow spade]

are you doing the block attack

[sleek cairn]

anybody wanna try drawing lewd art using vet tree

[mortal horizon]

ya

[kind scarab]

[south spindle]

I dont know why youre chasing this point so hard. A gun which is bad is bad, emotional attachment to it doesnt make it any better. Statistically its bad, and in practice its bad.

[forest blaze]

Nah I let them run up en masse and then infil to pass their aggro to the Psyker

[kind scarab]

bruh

[mortal horizon]

i know how to do it just doesnt 2 shot

[orchid cloak]

i dropped sup complex for onslaught no bully

[sleek cairn]

u're not clearing ur runs anyway doc

just draw

[junior needle]

I like giving backshots (also providing baseline data independent of headshots).

[sleek cairn]

retire as a vet

[slow spade]

oh then weird, maybe take it

[limpid hull]

any thoughts so far on new vet experience?

[kind scarab]

It's not my fault, it's the randoms not playing as a team

[orchid cloak]

but hey if you find those 5-10 missing points for the talent tree hit me up

[limpid hull]

im having difficulty personally

[delicate estuary]

I dont have an emotional attachment to the gun just people trying to gatekeep others from trying to use what they find fun

[sleek cairn]

hey that's loser talk. just become bob ross instead of john darktide

can't lose anymore that way

[slow spade]

Doc sees a dog -> asks for lewd art from Doc

you um got something you want to tell the Inquisitor soldier?

[kind scarab]

I'll bob ross the heretics blood onto my canvas of glory

[delicate estuary]

I mean sure but wouldnt agree its a realistic example

[orchid cloak]

based

[rugged portal]

After playing with the vet for a few days, opened up my Zealot, looked at their tree and felt literal waves if relief.

Nah man, the vet is just screwed right now. It sucks that it's my favorite class to play.

[solar garden]

hoooooly fk this. I was gonna mention exactly this earlier. literally 1/6 of your entire ammo reserve to down one fkin disabler.
It's a sick joke.

[kind scarab]

[delicate estuary]

then dont shoot it in the back

[sleek cairn]

you think the emperor has a CIA?

im asking cuz reasons.

[mortal horizon]

damn, this is with +30weakpoint node and bring em down...

[kind scarab]

All of you get the holy water bottle blessed by the emperor spraying

[mortal horizon]

how am i not hitting it?

[south spindle]

People dont want to carry deadweight players in the hardest content. Its that simple. If your idea of fun is being a liability an causing wipes because you have no ability to deal with the enemy influx, thats not good. If you want to chill out an play whatever, there are settings other than Auric/Auric Maelstrom to do that in

[forest blaze]

+carapace maybe?

[sleek cairn]

shit that's close. i wonder if brutal momentum 4 would bring it

[slow spade]

I'm just going to put you away from the pox hound kennels that's all UwU

[solar garden]

Implying you get a choice with it's fast speed, tiny head hitbox, and massive body obscuring it from anything other than the front 90 degree cone, in the middle of a fight XD

[junior needle]

Don't worry, they also have low headshot damage bonus compared to other weapons so the disparity is even worse if you take headshots into account!

[delicate estuary]

exactly my point of going in a loop in which case its whatever

[mortal horizon]

i thought you didnt need it tho

[limpid hull]

playing a hot shot build today, and i was super squishy to ranged gunfire. more than id ever had been. anyone else notice that?

[forest blaze]

Try it

[solar garden]

I swear you're just fkin trolling now, between this and the "leave the ragers for your melee teammates" comment. -_-

[kind scarab]

Why do we have pox hound kennels, when they rush us anyway

We don't even need to keep them stored

[orchid cloak]

yes confirmed kill got nerfed

[slow spade]

unironically, I stopped doing aurics once the new patch dropped because I knew the shitters were coming lol

[mortal horizon]

maybe, i dontr have +carapace.
but im also using a left side keystone build able to grab both 30% weakpoint and bring em down.
im even further away using the weapon specialist build

[forest blaze]

100%. We all know infil is for the ragers.

[orchid cloak]

which was how most vets survived killing tons of elites

[slow spade]

like clockwork, they came...

[sleek cairn]

is this with agile engagement

cuz honestly it doesnt hurt to just swing again lol

[forest blaze]

Just swap the +elite for +carapace and you should be good to go

[limpid hull]

yeah but i never got 3 shot by a gunner before. thats what i mean

[mortal horizon]

no im not triggering any passives

[delicate estuary]

but then again you are magdumping a mutant which shouldnt be the case unless you have high alpha strike weapons like a MK12, hellbore, bolter etc.

[south spindle]

Its not a loop, its factual. If you want to chill out an enjoy the game, hell, even play Heresy, but if you come into a Maelstrom game with a recon an struggle to pull over 200K damage whilst your teammates are all hitting upwards of 500K, you're not contributing, you're there for a free ride

[kind scarab]

Yeah, the confirmed kill toughness regen kept most of us safe from that

[orchid cloak]

are you using exil takedown?

[slow spade]

so we can throw pox hounds at them

its the circle of life c:

[solar garden]

It really is that simple. I don't know why the entitled shidders can't grasp that.
It's basic social contract; don't be a load on the group.

[sleek cairn]

honestly with that tick of hp, a teammate would probably chunk a bit and u'd finish

[kind scarab]

Imagine Vet tree that lets you summon a pet pox to lunge at an enemy and stagger it for a while

[sleek cairn]

is it just crushers with ur breakpoint?

[slow spade]

incoming DMCA from Necromunda devs UwU

[junior needle]

The mutant in particular isn't important. It's a high health target to show consistency of dps against an armor type over a longer period.

[kind scarab]

Or maybe just a regular hound, not a pox one

[midnight mortar]

This is dangerously close to the people that have been asking for a cyber mastiff as an Enforcer class option.

[mortal horizon]

ya just feels bad.
I also need + maniac still on this sword

[orchid cloak]

nah poxhound after the vet nerfs we go to the traitor guard

[bitter turtle]

flamers sneaking up from behind is like half the things i shoot tbh

[delicate estuary]

yea which in a realistic scenario wouldnt be hitting with a gun like that

[orchid cloak]

they treat their vets good over theere

[sleek cairn]

Psword? Does not need maniac

[kind scarab]

Hell yeah, I'll go traitor

They promised me no more bad teammates

[midnight mortar]

Not gonna lie, the Administratum's really pushing me towards the Moebians.

[orchid cloak]

so when are the las chain guns coming to our side

[midnight mortar]

They have my hellgun.

[mortal horizon]

??? really, thought it was super important especially now with all the ragers

[midnight mortar]

They have my cosmetics.

[south spindle]

Pretty much, its not a hard one to grasp, just dont be deadweight, there are tons of options that are fun an not the best, but most of those can pull enough weight its not a problem

[orchid cloak]

they have my long las

[sleek cairn]

oo trust me u'll handle ragers with or without the maniac perk lol

[forest blaze]

They have my plasma pistol

[sharp ember]

where are the loyalist moebian 5th regiment, i want their armor

[sleek cairn]

on psword 6 especially

[orchid cloak]

they have R A G E R S

[kind scarab]

I'm 100% convinced, that the traitors have the better weapons, and a higher winrate than the playerbase does

[south spindle]

the ones which are outright bad, are just that, outright bad

[kind scarab]

[midnight mortar]

I personally prefer my mk3 psword with maniacs than without.

[slow spade]

Fatshark pls add combi-bolters kk thx

[mortal horizon]

lol idk, with no other buffs im missing 2 hit breakpoint on them and 1 hit on mutant'

[junior needle]

The mutant is just a showcase for damage across the entire maniac damage type. The dps applies the same across all of them. Am I not explaining this correctly?

[midnight mortar]

Because you need that maniacs for the breakpoint.

[orchid cloak]

tzeentch comes im leaving you all i am sorry

[slow spade]

except for melee because they take higher melee damage

[kind scarab]

Sorry, only Slaneesh

[dusk idol]

doesn’t mutant take more damage than some maniac types like rager?

[sleek cairn]

damn i was hoping the 10% elite could tide him over

[kind scarab]

Tzeentch is busy tormenting Kruber

[sleek cairn]

i dont know how far off he is atm without maniac

[slow spade]

only for melee

[delicate estuary]

so how fast does a flamer/bomber/trapper die

[orchid cloak]

https://tenor.com/view/spraying-disinfect-lilo-and-stitch-lilo-stitch-gif-16694753

[junior needle]

Maybe from melee, not from ranged last I liked

[kind scarab]

[midnight mortar]

Mutant has an inherent damage received increase from melee.

[dusk idol]

I swear it feels like mutie will take increased damage from some ranged weapons but I could just be losing it

[bitter turtle]

too long, is how long

even before the nerfs

most of the time i was covering rearguard and they still geta puff of flame out when shooting with recon lol

recon is just fucking terrible against maniac there is really no way to slice it otherwise

[delicate estuary]

I mean that makes sense cause you cant see what you are shooting from all the laser particles

[junior needle]

I just tested it and ragers took about the same dps from the same 7a with the same setup. It was only a little less because it staggers and wiggles leading to some arm shots despite my best efforts.

[bitter turtle]

idk wdym or if you are memeing me

[south spindle]

Quickly enough, in a vacuum, but when you're having loads of them thrown at you, ontop of walls of ragers, it doesnt really matter because it costs so much ammo for you to even kill one, that you'll be dead out before you've gotten anywhere in the map. This is the problem with looking at this gun in the Psykhanium. Sure, killing one or two things, its fine, as soon as you start factoring in the ammo cost an TTK en masse, there is where the big problems start to show

[sleek cairn]

@mortal horizon in this case, u can just refine and see which perk has brought u the best QoL in practice. There's on paper and there's in practice. Test it and see which refinement is better

[dusk idol]

all goods all goods cheers lads

[languid stump]

Voice of command guys, what are your builds?

[sleek cairn]

i know in practice everybody bum rushes crusher liek a mofo

[delicate estuary]

no memeing just asking havent ran it in a while since I have been chilling with the mk12

[orchid cloak]

get scav then barrel directly down the middle of the tree i am not joking

[sleek cairn]

so i dont really worry about one shot crusher lol

[forest blaze]

Getting into a tickle fight with the AM rager brigade isn’t a great plan 😂

[bitter turtle]

when they come from behind they are usually alone

so no, I can see him just fine

the gun just kills him way slower than most other guns

[south spindle]

It most certanly is not

[sleek cairn]

holy shit are u still only using helbore III forever and ever?

[bitter turtle]

its not a problem if there is only one, a single puff of flame is not a big deal

but sometimes they spawn in groups of 3

or more

then there is a problem for the recon lol

[delicate estuary]

I dont deal with melee elites using my guns I just throw a nade and let my melee classes have their fun whileI keep them safe from specials, ranged elites and normal shitters that have guns

[tawdry yacht]

bruh

[delicate estuary]

if front line needs help I just whip out my melee

its as simple as that

[forest blaze]

In malice maybe

[bitter turtle]

?

[sleek cairn]

i recall u using helbore all the time

[delicate estuary]

powersword double or triple slices ragers

[south spindle]

Thats not how that works in practice...

[delicate estuary]

shovel perma staggers

[sleek cairn]

u posted ur build, it was like a pure helbore III build

[bitter turtle]

i have a rolled helbore

but i never use it usually

[delicate estuary]

like huh ?

[sleek cairn]

oh

[bitter turtle]

you might be thinking of someone else lol

[sleek cairn]

i might be

[south spindle]

If you need to rely on your teammates that hard because your weapon has a glairing weakness, thats a problem

[sleek cairn]

there was a helbore III fanatic , i guess it wasnt u

[bitter turtle]

nah

[delicate estuary]

you see how I typed guns and not specify a wepaon

[solemn plaza]

i am a helbore 3 fanatic lol

[shell widget]

Bold of you to assume the front liners have acknowledged the 4 ragers that got past them and charging straight towards me

[south spindle]

You can't clutch as a result, and you need your team babysitting you so you dont get facerolled by the enemies you cant kil

[delicate estuary]

you think I magdump ragers when I use mk12 or what

[solemn plaza]

dont remember posting my build though

[bitter turtle]

i used recon until the nerf and then switched to the iags

[forest blaze]

Imagine going into AM like: “nah, that crusher horde is someone else’s problem”

[mortal horizon]

i think its onslaught

[sleek cairn]

he'd dodge Ogryn teammates like a wizard. I only get frustrated and die miserably from shootin my helbore into friendly ogryns

[delicate estuary]

sometimes I do if the frontline needs it but not as often

[south spindle]

Yeah.. that is exactly the kind of habit that results in you being carried

Harsh, but true

[junior needle]

A little less than 1/3 as fast as if you had used a columnus. Which had 3.11x the dps without headshots (the IAG's have a huge base headshot modifier).

[tawdry yacht]

i beg u not to come to auric/mael, or i should be glad coz we are not in the same region

[delicate estuary]

yea I agree but you got nades and most vet melee options have enough mobility or damage depending on your choice

[midnight mortar]

I mean, I hope not? The MG XII is capable of 2 shotting ragers.

[sleek cairn]

oh onslaught might actually bring u over the breakpoint

[languid stump]

Wait, fr? It’s that easy?

[orchid cloak]

this is why i dont think its a bad thing that power sword is strong it fills holes that most of the guns have

[orchid cloak]

yes

[forest blaze]

“Nah. Those 8 maulers are someone else’s problem. I’ll mag dump these poxwalkers instead”

[delicate estuary]

dunno been playing with a 90% WR aurics just fine even with suboptimal stuff

could be a skill issue

[south spindle]

It should be strong, for sure, but its a bit overtuned at the moment

[bitter turtle]

what's your gun

[forest blaze]

Auric Heresy maybe

[bitter turtle]

shout can be used with almost any gun

your tree should reflect your weapon not shout

[slow spade]

Shout is exclusively for recon lasgun/chainaxe users

[forest blaze]

And if you run plasma, you can play whatever you want 🙂

[shell widget]

You mentioned the shovel, I'm currently running it cuz I can't stand the other melee options regarding stagger control goes. Am I missing something important for why it takes forever to kill anything with the shovel?

[sleek cairn]

and playstyle!

[south spindle]

I'm calling BS on this straight away. if you'd have said 70%, that would be believable, but 90%? fuck outta here, thats stupendously hard in pugs

[sleek cairn]

some ppl love movement speed stacking. that's me

[delicate estuary]

special attack can stagger anything up to crushers except from bosses. Can use it to give space to someone who is fighting 6 crushers

[mortal horizon]

are you guys able to breakpoint elite gunners 1 tap?
im not able to lol. just all the breakpoints are messed up i dont get it

[whole moon]

Chainsword or Powersword will serve you much better there I think

[shell widget]

What if you're the one fighting the 6 crushers

[orchid cloak]

i dont think it is in the slightest in my opinon every class should have the tools to be able to cluch a game power sword and devils claw are those tools

[tawdry yacht]

coz he is trying to let other ppl kill it for him, taht's why

[junior needle]

Keep in mind that's aurics, not auric maelstrom. You could get mostly regular hi intensities and have a fairly easy time. Or hi intensity dogs.

[delicate estuary]

then you herd them over to your team

[forest blaze]

I do +flak and +maniac and it one shot headshots unless John Darktide chooses to call it a neck shot

[delicate estuary]

cause you are out of position

[orchid cloak]

we could have a perfectly balanced game but 1 balance is subjective and 2 balance iss boring

[forest blaze]

In Malice maybe

[sleek cairn]

90% is not hard if u solo clutch often. But i dont believe it coming out of him in particular.

[orchid cloak]

disparity is what creates interest frien

[shell widget]

Sounds about right

[orchid cloak]

otherwise we would all be playing pong right now

[mortal horizon]

to the unarmoured elite gunners?

see my screenshot im far off

[forest blaze]

Yah

[south spindle]

Powersword has too many good stats in all areas, it has huge stagger and huge damage, not to mention really good ADMs, Catachan Sword does not have that same combination of stats backing it, PSword doesnt need to be nerfed that hard, but it does need some downtuning simply because it doesnt take an L in any particular way except in mobility, which honestly doesnt matter in 90% of the game if everything in front of you dies in a couple of swings. The only place thats really felt is vs Chaos Spawn

[mortal horizon]

what talent build? bc im not even close

[empty creek]

i believe it TBH, auric is arguably just more fun damnation & heresy since there’s more people 2 kill, especially if ur psyker or ogryn

maybe not veteran though

[south spindle]

In normal Auric i would say you have more risk of running into potatos vs Maelstrom, but yes, that is much easier going on the whole

[forest blaze]

Plasma damage also doesn’t scale linearly with heat. Keep that mind

[orchid cloak]

you can parry for huge damage with the cata

if you get caught out with the power sword dealing with ragers you go down

[south spindle]

Yes, you can indeed, but the ADMs and Stagger values are nowhere close to the powered up PSword

[orchid cloak]

that does not phappen with catch

[delicate estuary]

throw nade dodge back charge the sword do heavy attack and profit

[orchid cloak]

and youre using resources to do so

[sand oracle]

Why does it say that Vet was nerfed quite a bit today, as if it's still not underperforming?

[orchid cloak]

but without those resources back to it being okay

[delicate estuary]

well arent you running nade regen

[mortal horizon]

im not sure what you mean, are your right clicking gunners to 1 shot? i dont see how you can left click 1 shot without maybe marksman focus?

[south spindle]

That happens with everyting, if they're in front of you an you see them coming, then PSword will just stagger lock them, an if they're the silent type that sneak up behind you, even Catachan wont save you because hitstun will kill you first

[delicate estuary]

I just got bored of the activation sound being so loud over time its just annoying to listen to

[empty creek]

pressing parry ignores stuns

[dapper vessel]

There are some nerfs to some nodes but Vet is still strong

[empty creek]

i thjnk

[kind scarab]

Aight bless. Fixed my headphones without needing to resolder them.

[sand oracle]

Not as strong as Ogryn and Psyker in any sense.

[south spindle]

It does not, you still take the knocks

[kind scarab]

For now

[tardy vigil]

Long shot + agile engagement + focus target + flak damage gets the plasma to pretty reliably 1tap left click gunners

[empty creek]

if so, ive never noticed it, been using claws since release

[delicate estuary]

biggest problem with vet is that left tree is just despair because exhilarating takedown is still bugged even after the hotfix

[empty creek]

feels extremely responsive regardless of situation

[sleek cairn]

@mortal horizon he's agile engagement and focus target. u went right tree lol

[forest blaze]

I’m sure someone here has the chart I’m referencing. I don’t keep it on hand but it’s somewhere in the ballpark of the base damage of the gun isn’t linearly tied to the best of the gun, which impacts everything else. The damage oscillates higher and lower based off the heat level.

[sleek cairn]

if u went mid tree u'd probably hit all ur breakpoints

[south spindle]

Same, dont get me wrong, they're a very good weapon, particularly now, but they're not comparable to how strong Powersword is

[bitter turtle]

man

[kind scarab]

It was less of a hotfix, and more them coming clean about shadow nerfs

[bitter turtle]

i need a 2nd stamina curio

[forest blaze]

Aye

[bitter turtle]

i cannot get used to deadshot columnus with only 1 stamina lol

[dapper vessel]

there is actual bug fix there

[bitter turtle]

literally draining the fug out of my stam

[sleek cairn]

yeah, some ogryn/monstro dmg, 10% rending and all the keystone shit. @mortal horizon 's breakpoints would solve in a milisecond

[empty creek]

I gave PSs a swing earlier & they’re not bad on godrolls w/ power cycler but it feels interchangeable w/ the claws if U know what ur doing

[dapper vessel]

onslaught couldnt apply brittleness on melee hits before the hotfix

[delicate estuary]

look I dont care what it was I care what they named it and I was extremely aggravated and disappointed that exhilarating takedown is still not fixed. Entire left side is about headshots and the headshot node makes you take 30% more damage

[forest blaze]

Weapon specialist isn’t a one shot breakpoint plasma build

[kind scarab]

Yes, but Im just saying it's mostly stuff they failed to report on when update came out

[mortal horizon]

i see. if i go left tree and Marksman focus i can also 1 tap them.

So its just not possible with weapon specialists it seems without either agile engagement triggered or longshot

[sand oracle]

Naw, I have two godrolled claw and a mostly godrolled Psword. Psword is far better because it has far less needed to perform it's damage.

[forest blaze]

It’s a flex melee, auto reload build

[south spindle]

I disagree tbh, I rate them above PSword when it comes to fun factor, but there is no denying PSword is miles ahead of the curve at the moment. Like i get it, but at the same time, its not the same thing, nor do they serve the same purpose

[sleek cairn]

its cuz weapon specialist side is more for your QoL than boosting your damage ceiling + breakpoints.

[vivid geyser]

random question, is the bayonet on a rifle cosidered a ranged weapon attack of a melee attack?

[empty creek]

still personally don’t like having a charge animation 2 perform, im a little too ADHD riddled 2 wait on that so definitely prefer the claw & how braindead the parrying can be

[junior needle]

It's a very high rof weapon, that would be why. Close to the 6d. Even three 3 stamina curios won't get you more than like 2ish seconds of deadshot uptime.

[forest blaze]

You’ll hit BP with the crit IIRC

[shell widget]

Wait which node in particular was it? Or is it any node that states "+X% Weak Spot Damage"?

[sleek cairn]

o true he's plasma

[sand oracle]

^ Powersword is MUCH stronger because of how it's damage setup is, and how many more enemies the powersword gets max damage on than devil's claw @empty creek

Devil's claw struggles on bosses and anything in carapace a lot more than psword does.

Psword will 1-3 shot about anything.

[forest blaze]

I was testing it earlier. You just have to hit the crit or ride the plasma damage oscillator situation

[empty creek]

exactly how i feel ATM

[delicate estuary]

catachans are fine just need to have a response for armor in terms of either stagger or damage since you wont always have nades. Shovel and some of the axes can stagger crushers. So if you want to run catachan pair it with like an autogun, plasma, bolter etc.

[sleek cairn]

@forest blaze honestly i just enjoy the smooth gameplay of weapon specialist

i dont like reloading

specialist solves that

lol

[dark kayak]

So shotgun build? Just grab right-side keystone?

[forest blaze]

WS is really good with plasma imo

[sand oracle]

Not to mention, psword can be pre-loaded to do it's damage while devil's claw's damage is risky.

[kind scarab]

Nah

[tardy vigil]

Dclaw struggles on bosses? my guy it allows me to solo them with nearly 0 damage taken easy save for Nurglebeast

[gritty mirage]

my game keeps doing this, how do i update. its on steam.

[kind scarab]

Restart steam

[sleek cairn]

im crying, im sorry. Im a revolver user. Im a lost cause

[sand oracle]

Psword can 8 shot bosses, which is 3 activations.

[sleek cairn]

just leave me here in a ditch

[gritty mirage]

ill try that

[empty creek]

i was shitting on them earlier but they’re pretty good, they just don’t fit in2 my playstyle as good as the devilclaws

[forest blaze]

@sleek cairn it’s super good with shout too.

[dark kayak]

?

[south spindle]

Yeah they dont struggle on bosses because you can do it with impunity, but its not the same amount of damage, though its very safe, its not huge output

[tardy vigil]

excuse me? what setup allows for 7500 psword damage per hit

[delicate estuary]

yea bosses are a non issue for catachan and the only relative bosses are ogryn and chaos spawn since you can parry literally everything

[kind scarab]

You want either middle node, or left node

[forest blaze]

I think best plasma pairings are:
Exec + Marksman
Shout + Specialist
Infiltrate + Focus

[tardy vigil]

highest ive gotten is around 2300

[sleek cairn]

hey what perks u run on psword 6 breakpoints with no precision? Unyielding + Stam?

[sand oracle]

Middle tree is pretty much all you need.

[empty creek]

i was using 1 of the combat axes 4 a while since i got headtaker & it could kill like 15 fuckers @ once on heavy attacks B4 1 of the updates

[dapper vessel]

Mark 6's push attack has a 1.5 ADM against Unyielding

[forest blaze]

@sleek cairn

[empty creek]

miss my boy …

[sleek cairn]

i am not a plasma or exec stance enjoyer. Mamox is the one asking but i believe ur right

[delicate estuary]

is that with a weak spot blessing setup ?

[sand oracle]

I mean that works, but the push attack followup does much more damage.

Combo that with the tag keystone and you'll rip bosses in half easy

[dark kayak]

Mmm... I don't like left nodes movement restrictions

[sand oracle]

Ofc, push attack does better if you're good at dodge and stam management, because it opens you up more than just lighting like you're doing.

Which is probably better for saving health.

[sleek cairn]

he's melee vet

[empty creek]

don’t powersword stabs do way more damage than this

[kind scarab]

It's a shotgun, almost impossible to hiss landing headshots with that

[empty creek]

stop slashing bra

[sand oracle]

Yeah, that's what I was saying.

[delicate estuary]

that doesnt answer my question

[sand oracle]

But there's point to light.

[gritty mirage]

hmmm still didnt work, gues ill just reinstall...

[kind scarab]

You can also just use middle capstone if you suck at keeping the stacks up

[empty creek]

also dodge instead of blocking so U can set up heavies & shit

[sleek cairn]

yes, brutal momentum if that's what u meant?

[empty creek]

😢

[delicate estuary]

yes cause with weakspot blessing setup push attacks are better with the PS

[forest blaze]

Kek

[dapper vessel]

you dont need to stand still with the left keystone

[sleek cairn]

he's actually right lol

[empty creek]

do PSs have shitty dodge or smthng

[delicate estuary]

yea I dont disagree

[dapper vessel]

as long as you keep hitting heads, and getting headshot kills

[kind scarab]

Solo spawn with a devil claw sounds more reasonable than push attack on a PS

[delicate estuary]

dodge distance and count is low

[dapper vessel]

yes

[empty creek]

stinks

makes sense then, MB 🖖

[south spindle]

Yeah push attacking a spawn without eating hits is a big ask, but the point remains, you dont need to do that at all with PSword, its upfront damage is enough to wipe them regardless

[sand oracle]

I don't think anyone's disagreeing, it's just a lot higher damage to push stab if you have the timings down.

[sleek cairn]

that's why the push atk is risky, u need a good opening or u get hit. ur seldom alone with the boss, u need to do a mixed clear + boss all wailing on u

[delicate estuary]

PS is super nice for max ranging maulers and ragers tho as it perma staggers them

[primal trellis]

i love powersword but the amount of dodges is not as safe as the devils claws

[dark kayak]

Not arguing that. 🙂 just the whole losing tokens because of movement. I tend to be more on tge move and never standing still. So getting tge most I can out of the left node is difficult for me.

[orchid cloak]

seems like youve just gotten good and want more of a challenge then tbh its not like powersword is invalidating tthe other choices even shovel is good i just dont see the need to nerf

[delicate estuary]

yea just not sure about consistency in a realistic setting

[kind scarab]

Try out middle node then

[candid tundra]

I could be TOTALLY wrong, but I was doing some quick testing and I don't think this provides any rending buffs. Node might be bugged?

[primal trellis]

i love the devil's claw when i have a gun for monstrosities, then it's just a trash / safety weapon

[dapper vessel]

Push attack spamming a Cspawn is a lot of stamina resources used that can potentially be used to block it's attacks instead

[sand oracle]

Aye, I'm moreso refering to the fact that someone doubted the claim that you could take a boss down in 3 or so activations.

Which you can if you ramp damage properly.

[elder vessel]

That's like the 4th bricked Shotgun because I got fucken infested damage

[kind scarab]

It's only at max stacks, and that 10% is no different than the 10% rending node. Most builds don't really make great use of it

[sand oracle]

Although, most people don't like tag vet - nor do a lot of people run unyielding

[terse idol]

Uhhh, Dclaw 🥹

[south spindle]

When one weapon can do as much as it can, thats a balance issue, its just how it is man

[empty creek]

ideally U learn the dodge distance U have 2 work w/ & learn the boss attack timings so it’s non-issue in an ideal scenario

anything 2 make it work

[candid tundra]

yeah, I tested it at max stacks, it did nothing

[primal trellis]

what's the trick to that on ragers? activate and then hit them before they start chaining?

[delicate estuary]

just wish I could replace the PS charge sounds with silence instead. Running it for hours gets annoying

[terse idol]

That IS a good point

[finite imp]

I hate the new vet nerfs my performance is garbage now

[sleek cairn]

he's definitely running Unyielding and Stamina on his psword 6. not maniac / flak liek some ppl were saying

[dapper vessel]

yuh I can solo a cspawn fine

[primal trellis]

once they start flailing at different times it's a pain in the ass and you can't get out with power sword

[sand oracle]

It's not even that.... It's the damn bug that makes it play after it's deactivated.

[empty creek]

ive got a dclaw w/ 2 impact blessings & 2 parries will throw like 5

it’s great

[sand oracle]

Because if that sticks to you, it gets hella annoying

[hearty panther]

The 10% rending for Marksman is a trap tbh. When you need it most you won't often even have targets nearby to build the stacks up to activate it. And if you have a gun that can already build those stacks killing Crushers, then you didn't need it anyway.

[dapper vessel]

if you have max stacks of an impact blessing. your parries can stagger them to the ground.

[true echo]

vet nerfs ontop of difficulty increase has me back to heresy pubs

[sleek cairn]

how about our lord and savior, Caxe2. please guys

[kind scarab]

That's why you take Camo, but even then, 10% ain't gonna be saving your ass ever

[empty creek]

🫡

[sleek cairn]

name drop the caxe2 some more, i can only grow so erect.

[finite imp]

It feels like I'm fighting my ass off and still getting outperformed by all other classes

[hearty panther]

Yeah and also good luck standing still for 7ish seconds as six Crushers come crashing into your team yknow.

[finite imp]

I used to sweep the leaderboard

[delicate estuary]

yea cause vet is more specialized now when other classes can do everything

ogryn with kickback and you are sorted

[forest blaze]

Lukewarm take. Marksman is only as good as you can effectively wipe all the specials in the zip code with weak point kills. Your mobility is limited and your damage will fluctuate, so you need to be able to do insane, persistent damage with limited mobility to maximize your use of it. I.E executioners plasma

[delicate estuary]

oh is that a sniper 50 meters away let me just yeet shrapnel at him

[finite imp]

It feels like if we don't min max the FUCK out of the vet we cannot even compare to the stopping power of other classes

[sand oracle]

L take

[empty creek]

horrific take

[true echo]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-fish-this-is-bait-gif-11212449

[tawdry swan]

https://tenor.com/view/chad-monke-gif-20835999

im using recon

[hearty panther]

Yeah I can't really get behind any Vet complaints I keep hearing lol

[minor brook]

what skills do you pair with columnus

[sand oracle]

Vet is by far the worst class RN lmfao

[sleek cairn]

the hell, how is Vet not OP?

[minor brook]

left tree?

[empty creek]

the class is more than just using a sword & it fucking sucks @ all that RN

[hearty panther]

Other than obvious bugs like Takedown

[finite imp]

This is a masochist do not listen to him

[candid tundra]

starved for points, simple as

[tawdry swan]

only op thing about vet is infinite nades

[rigid pilot]

Lmao maybe it's not other classes, it's the players

[sleek cairn]

who here thinks vet is complete shit and talking in this channel

[sand oracle]

Still strong, but it's not by ANY means better than anyone else.

[empty creek]

https://tenor.com/view/mad-max-tom-hardy-max-rockatansky-thats-bait-bait-gif-4987723

[delicate estuary]

so you have to use the BIS weapon to perform

[sand oracle]

Just because vet is strong, doesn't mean it's not still the weakest.

[true echo]

https://tenor.com/view/bait-fish-this-is-bait-gif-11212449

[south spindle]

Marksmans doesnt limit your mobility at all, every weakspot kill gives you stacks, you just have to be a good shot to really get the most out of it

[kind scarab]

Glass cannon

[true echo]

Lotta baiters in chat tonight

[kind scarab]

The term is, vet is currently a glass cannon

[empty creek]

psyker’s the glass cannon, not vet

[kind scarab]

Psyker is tankier than us

[orchid cloak]

but why? seems arbitrary

[kind scarab]

tf you on about

[empty creek]

@ least, it was the only glass cannon

[dense rivet]

I like that veterans more squishy, it should be

[rigid pilot]

I run marksman exe stance but you can probably run anything else and be fine

[delicate estuary]

not sure if stacks even give you anything mobility wise but comparing something like hitting headshots in auric/maelstrom level consistently compared to the 1 million AOE responses other classes have is kind of redundant

[kind scarab]

What was yer region btw, so I can check ping difference

[south spindle]

Because it literally does invalidate other choices, if there is no tradeoff, then there is no choice

It just becomes best in slot with no competition

[azure zephyr]

Can somebody with this week's outfit take a pic of their character but with the week's jacket swapped out for the one you can get by grinding?

I want to see what that combo looks like

[finite imp]

My guns feel like they just don't kill as fast as they used to. Feels bad

[empty creek]

a choice between fun & no fun

[whole moon]

Thinking on it my vet matches recently either go abysmally or I'm so in the zone I feel I could solo aurics.
I am not that good a player. Ask anyone whose teamed w me

[orchid cloak]

na

[finite imp]

I shouldnt have to spend an entire magazine to kill a rager

[sand oracle]

Love how people are saying all this shit about vet, like Vet isn't aesthetically supposed to be the 'versatile' 'do everything' class.... MFW people unironically say Vet's fine where it is RN when everyone else can do more better are delusional.

[kind scarab]

Spicy ping

[sleek cairn]

man u guys are wild

[finite imp]

That's rediculous

[kind scarab]

But doable probably

[dapper vessel]

Vet is op right now lol

[empty creek]

https://tenor.com/view/mad-max-tom-hardy-max-rockatansky-thats-bait-bait-gif-4987723

[dapper vessel]

Mark 6 is strong, shout vet is still viable

[sleek cairn]

vet is OP

[sand oracle]

Mk 6 is OP. Vet is not.

[forest blaze]

Vet is strong right now. People just like shitty weapons and shitty builds. Baited.

[dapper vessel]

right keystone is really comfortable for revolver and shotgun

[kind scarab]

At least it ain't Aussie levels of ping

[empty creek]

all opinions R bait

[rigid pilot]

Reminds me of that reddit clip yesterday, spoilers it's not the gun's fault

[true echo]

you heard it here folks vet being viable = OP

[empty creek]

trust nobody

[finite imp]

If Vet is OP, all of the other classes are broken

[hearty panther]

Vet will always be OP with Survivalist, the single strongest node/aura in the entire game. Objectively speaking.

[kind scarab]

Here's some Bait: Chainaxe is best vet weapon, if you play with your eyes closed. Cause you can hear yourself magnetise to an enemy and die

[dapper vessel]

The only thing shitty about the class is the sheer amount of shit nodes in the trees

[sleek cairn]

aite my eyes are wincing, @dapper vessel im tuning out , u handle this shit so i can play blissfully

[dapper vessel]

and some of the node arrangements need some readjusment

[sleek cairn]

time to play

[delicate estuary]

people run survivalist because they want freedom of ammo due to all people wanting to spam their guns because FS managed to get gunplay correct at least

[empty creek]

whenever i see people w/ a chax in the pre-mission, I get a headache

[hearty panther]

Yeah can't wait for the day they delete it

[orchid cloak]

does it make them invald? does anyone here feel that the other weapons are legitimately unusable?

[delicate estuary]

sometimes tempted to not run survivalist when I See kickback ogryns

[south spindle]

That wasnt the point, at all. People read the skill and assume that it means you have to stand still to get stacks, when in reality, you get stacks just from playing well, an the damage is rather significant with a good stack count from Marksman's. For instance, you can achieve a one shot breakpoint on everything except Mauler + Crusher with Agripinaa Slug Shotgun

[empty creek]

i cant think of a single moment where that thing was capable of anything besides mid

[south spindle]

I dont think you're getting the point here

[sand oracle]

Chainaxe just needs a way to 'unhook' itself IMO.

[kind scarab]

Then they just pick up all the ammo on the floor, cause they feel entitled to the ammo because in their mind you failed to pick up survivalist

[junior needle]

I'm free for some games, I heard you were having some shit teammate problems

[sand oracle]

It feels weird that a chainsaw would catch on anything, if it's meant to cut it.

[delicate estuary]

the point is while you are sweating hitting headshots someone is using the 10th AOE weapon or skill and is performing for less effort required

[finite imp]

I just wish the antax didn't stop cold with a single poxwalker like wtf

[delicate estuary]

exactly when in reality I didnt pick survivalist as a learning opportunity

[dapper vessel]

you can run around with a brauto and still keep your focus stacks up

[orchid cloak]

Explain your point then

[rigid pilot]

You uhh. used a saw before?

[terse idol]

Eh

That's

Debatable

[empty creek]

chainsaws tend 2 pull forwards or backwards when cutting things so they have a habit of getting pinched / lodged if U aren’t careful

[terse idol]

I still know a few builds which don't run the keystones

[delicate estuary]

ytea tbh my opinion is semi biased cause I am running the mk12 and keeping up stacks is genuinely hard over prolonged amount of time

[dapper vessel]

i should clarifiy. Tax nodes

[south spindle]

No, the point was, it doesnt limit your mobility. An you cant complain about AoEs when you have literally the best grenade choices, with maybe the only exception being Ogg's nuke, an they dont have regen

[terse idol]

Because some of the talent nodes are that good

Okay that's fair

[delicate estuary]

I can imagine left node is much easier with full auto weapons

[kind scarab]

Was gonna see how things went with @orchid cloak but I'm down for anything

[terse idol]

For the emperor is still stinky poop

[sand oracle]

I literally used a saw 20 minutes ago, because we're working on a Christmas parade float.

[south spindle]

I have done, five or six times now

Im not going to repeat myself all night

[zealous wyvern]

the chainsword in 40k would instantly cut through pure flesh and bone. look into their lore. it would not get caught on anything short of armour or maybe bone plates of ogryns or chaos things

[kind scarab]

I'm just want to not have to worry about the teammates while I test out the shotgun builds

[sand oracle]

I'm inside because I'm hungry.

[rigid pilot]

Yea what happens when there isn't enough rpm

[orchid cloak]

im getting carried rn gimmie a bit

[kind scarab]

Wasn't that your job

[empty creek]

a saw would probably work beautifully on a person till it hit bone but im not in a cartel nor am i a murderer so IDK

[bitter turtle]

btw

[terse idol]

Well they're powered by the emperor plain and simple

[orchid cloak]

and i explained my reasoning why i disagree with your points but i guess we agree to disagree

[bitter turtle]

have people tried taking our for blood over nerfed CK

[terse idol]

They never jam

They never get stuck because they get caked in blood

[orchid cloak]

its low vent rn and im not running exe stance

[terse idol]

The omnisah wills

[orchid cloak]

so i suffer

[delicate estuary]

yea thats what I am running until they fix exhilarating takedown

[zealous wyvern]

no just they are so sharp and fast that they would ABSOLUTELY cut through any flesh

[kind scarab]

Oh god, vent

[zealous wyvern]

no getting stuck

at all

[forest blaze]

For me it’s the fact that the chaxe has nothing it’s actually good against.

[sand oracle]

Chainsaws meant for killing people like chainswords and chainaxes, realistically shouldn't catch on what they're meant to cut into.

[zealous wyvern]

chainswords digging in is not realistic and i am fine with it. just saying it is not realistic

[sleek cairn]

@orchid cloak im a smoke user, come. let me open your eyes

[finite imp]

Their Causemen btw

They're*

[sleek cairn]

vent purge got nothing on me

[frank ether]

it is, its very dumb design

[kind scarab]

Their eyes already filled with smoke

[delicate estuary]

ventilation purge enjoyer

[junior needle]

Just let me know when

[sleek cairn]

i'll show u a real vent purge

[orchid cloak]

F im straight edge no wonder it hits so bad

[frank ether]

autoguns also tend to move a lot faster

[orchid cloak]

it is a nice touch that stealth removes smoke while active though

[sand oracle]

Chainsaws we have don't bite on what they're meant to deal with, unless they're hella old and super uncared for. And even then that's mostly chainsaws on things like lumber.

[frank ether]

so those 3 seconds are a lot more time to capitalize than using helbore or some other slow gun

[empty creek]

vet ability where he gets an ogryn grenade box but it’s all smokes

[sand oracle]

Anyways I'm bein' called so I'll be back at some point.

[kind scarab]

100% bug, and not intended. They'll nerf if it you talk about it too much.

[delicate estuary]

yea I been running mk12 with it having to keep up headshots with ogryns in front and resetting exe stance has been pain when I could just run laser beam columnus but that shit too boring

[sand oracle]

Or I won't.

[empty creek]

either that or a giant ugly doobie shaped like a witch nose

chiefin dat shit

[sleek cairn]

i still got my 30s twinned smokes loadout. i have no fking idea what twinning a smoke even does

[orchid cloak]

please papa i can take no more nerfs its been one whole year of nerfs and peoiple still have 1.0 PTSD

[sleek cairn]

i dont even notice it

[bitter turtle]

o wait

but i lose 1 stamina if i go for out for blood

🤔

[frank ether]

I just dont play sharpshooter vet I just let people gaslight themselves into thinking its good

[bitter turtle]

not sur ei fthat's worth now

[empty creek]

wider spread but that’s it IG

[delicate estuary]

just trying to have fun

[empty creek]

who knows, not us

[sand oracle]

The virgin taking kraks to kill bosses and ogryn, vs the chad taking smokes to hotbox the Valkyrie

[serene sage]

sometimes meta chasing isn't fun

[kind scarab]

True, but people want to have fun most of the time, not abuse the meta to get milage out of the character

[serene sage]

i know revolver is busted and is better than bolter

[minor brook]

columnus is so stupid

[serene sage]

but i love bolter

[forest blaze]

Smokes in the horde to fight in the shade

[sleek cairn]

lol melee vet has me unbinding my reload button.

it's that absurd

[empty creek]

pretty sure they’re adding a bolt pistol so

[delicate estuary]

oh I dont think its good compared to other option I just play whats fun and dont compete for damage. Nothing more infuriating than trying to headtap every machine gunner on sight only for them to get AOE but 10 different things or nuked

[sleek cairn]

i can fully ignore reloading for life

spam Q

[kind scarab]

Yeap

Even before vet rework

[sleek cairn]

psyker columnus is bonkers

[frank ether]

its also the squishiest vet build with weakest melee

your keystone is exclusively ranged weakspot damage

[empty creek]

literally was playing gunpsyker like 15 minutes ago & it felt better than vet, which is usually all i play

[delicate estuary]

yea I been running shovel now but PS feels that most consistent with some footwork

[empty creek]

kinda fucked up

[soft trellis]

Is Focus Target! a good keystone for someone who has difficulty aiming? My gut tells me weapons specialist will be better for me, but, I wanted to ask

[sleek cairn]

1000% i agree gun psyker is godly

gun vet? haha just cry in a corner

[empty creek]

shoot 1 guy & suddenly everybody around said guy is on fire

[cobalt wedge]

Hey, does anybody got a screenshot of a good new Infiltrator build with these changes?

[empty creek]

shit’s great

[kind scarab]

Wait, NA E or W

[orchid cloak]

NA E

[kind scarab]

Oh bless

NA W is like another 100 ping

[orchid cloak]

west coast worst coast

[frank ether]

precision strikes helps I dont think shovel cuts it without going right tree

[kind scarab]

Gonna need to take apart my mouse tomorrow morning. My left click is getting a bit annoying.

[empty creek]

the shovel’s great but only use heavy attacks

[rugged portal]

Nah, the Vet SHOULD be better at range. The class is broken even if people find a way to play it because even in those roles it still doesn't outclass other classes.

[kind scarab]

Sometimes it'll do a double click rather than hold down left click.

[whole moon]

I like all my staffs too much to go gunpsyker

[delicate estuary]

I just use my shovel for horde/mutants/dogs, use its special to help teammates with crushers maulers by staggering them and nades for rager spam or occasionally magdump said ragers if I have the space

[empty creek]

but gun

[cobalt wedge]

Anyone got a good infiltrate build with the changes?

[empty creek]

wizards w/ guns is cooler than wizards w/ staffs

im right & ur wrong

i cast full-lineage death

[frank ether]

doesnt cut it in auric I end up facing bazillion rager/mauler/crushers

[minor brook]

psyker’s steel tome builds are so powerful

[frank ether]

with the right tree at least you're swinging fast enough

so that ragers cant find gaps to stunlock you to death

[languid escarp]

I don't get fire rate increasing nodes, like how does the physics work exactly realistically speaking

[minor brook]

whats the anti crusher shovel build

[frank ether]

Its not very good at that

[empty creek]

the kino

[whole moon]

I have no counterargument

[delicate estuary]

dunno not many issues with maulers and crushers. If people are not aware then I just take the L and move on

[empty creek]

BTW in order 2 use a shovel correctly, wear prisoner clothes

[delicate estuary]

ragers can be a bit fucky if you get caught out from behind

[frank ether]

Its still worse against armor than a psword or csword

[delicate estuary]

csword ? catachan you mean ?