veteran-class

[fading anvil]

They cant aim if their face has been vaporized by plasma

[placid portal]

Or rock

🪨

[delicate moat]

and stone

[plucky agate]

https://tenor.com/view/rock-and-stone-deep-rock-galactic-gif-25114877

wait wrong game

[placid portal]

https://tenor.com/view/deep-rock-galactic-gif-27383796

[delicate moat]

fellas, am i doing smoke right

[fading anvil]

Situation permitting, I will 100% try to close in and slap a sniper to death while playing Ogryn

[delicate moat]

smokes are so fun lmao

it was unironically helpful on this map because we didn't have a bubble psyker

[placid portal]

Yea smokes are good on carnival surprisingly

[bright cliff]

kinda silly that bubble psyker is basically mandatory

[delicate moat]

you can use smokes

[bright cliff]

though I really should give smokes a try

[placid portal]

Since most holding areas for events have little cover and surrounded by spawn locations

[mystic belfry]

It's very important that the director obsolutely floods us with ranged units

[delicate moat]

it actually helped a lot in earlier sections of the map

in this final section, the entrance basically is a free win provided you can deal with the maulers / crushers / ragers

[rigid pilot]

Smokes are great

[placid portal]

The first machine hack right?

[fading anvil]

I had a group manage it earlier w/o a psyker at all, it was mostly just sticking to what cover we had and abusing angles to funnel things toward us to be plasma'd

[delicate moat]

yeah

[mystic belfry]

Finally rolled a decent knife

[placid portal]

That part is brutal

[delicate moat]

that room is ass with the shotgunners and gunners

[mystic belfry]

Time to go get it butchered

[placid portal]

Gotta have eyes on the upper level

[delicate moat]

I deployed like 3 smokes and covered the entire room

[fading anvil]

And yeah the start of Carnival is brutal in that hack room, gunners on all sides

[delicate moat]

they had to fight us in melee

[tender inlet]

I feel like half the point of knife is zoomies, so mobility too low

[delicate moat]

[mystic belfry]

Hmm

[placid portal]

Lol

[mystic belfry]

As long as the second blessings isn't awful that's doable

[tender inlet]

Lacerate Uncanny is the normal combo, no?

[fading anvil]

Hadron enjoys our suffering

[delicate moat]

that's already a win, 5% crit chance / maniacs + lacerate / uncanny

[chilly jewel]

Just came across a post saying exhilirating takedown is bugged and causes you to take increaed toughness dmg instead of reduce, has anyone tested this?

[mystic belfry]

Is lacerate really? What do you use it for, horde clear?

[brazen meadow]

yeah, its true

[delicate moat]

it does help a bit with that imo

[dusty ferry]

After playing Vet with the new keystones
I am a bit sad and happy

[chilly jewel]

ok i was wondering why I felt so damn squishy lately

[tender inlet]

I'm happy I can just ignore the keystones and build whatever I want just like before

[brazen meadow]

Its been bugged since talent trees came out tho

[placid portal]

Yep

[delicate moat]

I wish they had a keystone that interacted with nades

[mystic belfry]

Build whatever you want like before, but nerfed :v

[delicate moat]

e.g. smokes for example

[tender inlet]

I personally like the new tree

[chilly jewel]

wth, ok so something else is making feel super squishy then

[mystic belfry]

I like some bits of it, some bits are rude

[placid portal]

Hate how superiority and bring it down is so deep in the tree

[chilly jewel]

cause it was never this bad before

[midnight mortar]

Sorry, Veteran was too strong with those. 😥

[placid portal]

Ye

Lol

[mystic belfry]

Can anyone spot the problem here?

[fading anvil]

Bit of a karkhead idea but here it goes. Keystone that causes elites you kill to explode like whatever your current grenade is. Give it like a 30-ish second CD but like you dome a gunner and he explodes into a smoke cloud

[delicate moat]

YES I would use that

[mystic belfry]

I mean, you'd just always run it with shredder nade

[brazen meadow]

yeah, tons of bleed non stop

[harsh geyser]

Is it me or the rework feels more of a nerf than anything

[dusty ferry]

Are you going to be a menace

[livid relic]

Weakspot Damage isn't the same as Weakspot hits getting Power

[delicate moat]

Does anyone know what was wonky about powersword dodge this patch? I think I saw something about that somewhere

[harsh geyser]

at least with the new bottom tree

[livid relic]

Power is far better than Weakspot Damage

[mystic belfry]

Yes, but do you see the problem there?

[harsh geyser]

since its like 8 point investment for each

[mystic belfry]

30% damage always vs. 20% power for 10 second on ult

And signficantly farther down

[livid relic]

Weakspot Damage only applies to the bonus damage from hitting the weakspot

[mystic belfry]

mhmm

[livid relic]

meaning that talent gives significantly less damage than the Power one.

[placid portal]

Man I hate knowing I cant get the elite reload anymore without giving up confirm kill

[mystic belfry]

I hate demolition team being mid way down the final middle tree

[stray ivy]

How good is this?

[craggy adder]

Ngl I hate the changes to the skill tree. I had a build that I was very comfortable with and I can't get it anymore

[simple basalt]

same i miss the old trees

[livid relic]

Let's say you shoot a guy in the head and instead of dealing 150 damage you deal 200. That means the Weakspot gave you 50 damage. 30% of 50 is 15, you get 65 damage instead for a total of 215.

20% extra Power applies to the entire hit, and also increases armor penetration, making it immensely more impactful than 30% weak spot damage

[placid portal]

Rippp

[craggy adder]

I can't get anything that suits my playstyle anymore

[gusty bison]

Always shoot people in the head with an IAG

[quaint valve]

its good, but talent trees arent that great for recon las right now

[gusty bison]

You get nearly 3x damage

[frank ledge]

The issue is as usual the tree shape been trash

[quaint valve]

@stray ivy roll it up and see how it goes

[mystic belfry]

I can't get elite or ogryn damage on my melee build anymore without dropping keystone :)

[placid portal]

So 30% is 3.6x damage?

[gusty bison]

Depends on the gun

[fast pilot]

Is there a time where I should right click my plasma gun or should I just left click with it?

[placid portal]

Simply ditch keystones xp

[frank ledge]

Keystone bad

[livid relic]

True, it also depends on Finesse and other things, I'm just boiling it down to the barest possible explanation

[sullen scarab]

Oh yeah so the weakspot damage is good then lol

[placid portal]

Keystone too specific

[mystic belfry]

Guess so

[livid relic]

My point is that Power matters WAY more than Weakspot Damage, like, universally

[mystic belfry]

You know, I didn't know power impacted armor pen

[stray ivy]

Don't really use recon, Kantrael kinda guy. Do I keep for a while or just leave it?

[livid relic]

On melee it also affects cleave

[gusty bison]

Take the IAG for instance.

If it deals 100 base damage, it would do 270 on headshot.

+20% power would be 324.

+30% WSD would be 321

I would take the perma up time in this case

[mystic belfry]

However, with your example here.

You're getting 215 always uptime, vs. 240 for 10 seconds after ult

[livid relic]

I mean if you had to choose between them yes

[placid portal]

Mind you that the 20% power is 10 sec duration

[gusty bison]

The vraks 7 in particular is the big one

[mystic belfry]

The damage in generally better there imo

[urban steppe]

you dont even need them

[mystic belfry]

But obviously depends on specific breakpoints

[placid portal]

So just have both?

[gusty bison]

V7 getting oodle noodles of damage mults on headshots is hilarious

[mystic belfry]

You can dip for weakpoint

[gusty bison]

300 damage on bodyshots vs maniac ragers.

2.4k on headshot

[wraith locust]

weakspot is better imo

less points, more consistent

[hearty panther]

Man real sad the biggest thing holding back the headshotter keystone is fragging exhilarating being broken still

[placid portal]

Volleyfire uptime is super good with cd reduction

[frank ledge]

"Oh look 21 ragers"
Bang bang bang

[gusty bison]

Yea Vraks 7 is on crack now

[placid portal]

And still have 1 more round in the mag

[frank ledge]

I've been using it on my veteran since patch 12

[mystic belfry]

How useful would you say Exploit Weakness is with a decent crit rate?

[frank ledge]

Dreglover best vet

[hearty panther]

Not very.

[mystic belfry]

Looked as such to me

[bright cliff]

so what’s the verdict? are we taking keystones or just hanging out in the middle of the tree and taking all the stat buffs?

[placid portal]

20% brittle and onslaught but most enemies wont surivive that long iirc

[mystic belfry]

I tried keystone a little bit just now (Middle and right)

tbh, I'm just not feeling them

[wraith locust]

not taking keystones is what im doing

[mystic belfry]

Like they function, but they don't really feel worth it

[bitter turtle]

i get more damage avoiding them so

[quaint valve]

If you have extra resources doesn't hurt to take it up

[wraith locust]

none of them feel impactful enough

[placid portal]

Keystones are just well.... meh

[white minnow]

power doesn't affect rending

it's damage, cleave, and stagger

[mystic belfry]

Also, I'm still pissed how much split my useful dip talens down the line past tax talents

[opaque crane]

I just feel like they interfere too much with the basics of gameplay

[white minnow]

+40% power = +40% damage, +40% cleave, and +40% stagger

it also boosts the cleave on guns as well

[solemn niche]

vet feels really bad after the update ngl

[mystic belfry]

No fatshark, I don't want to take For the Emperor!

[white minnow]

it's not limited to just melee

[bitter turtle]

lol

for the emperor

is so bad

i would literally rather have +5% hp or something

[placid portal]

Very bad? Not really but a step down for sure

[quaint valve]

Melee vet is great, range vet is bad.

[solemn niche]

the keystones are mostly unusable and any old build you had is now weaker

[main dock]

I can't believe they flattened the Kreig chest satchel/rebreather, what the fuck?!

[solemn niche]

even melee vet feels the loss of elite damage and nerfed thoughness regen on elite kill

[placid portal]

When I mean step down I mean a jump off the stairs

[mystic belfry]

Not only did Ogryn/Monster damage get a slight nerf, but you can't pair it with elite damage and you have to take useless talents to get to it

[placid portal]

Dammit FS i dont wanna do skill taxes

[tough snow]

can someone with more knowledge than me explain weapons specialist keystone? ranged stacks 10 times and gives 2% as and 33%crit per stack so... 330% crit?

[placid portal]

33 is fixed

[mystic belfry]

Maxes at 100%

[quaint valve]

I've not really had this issue, using claw and vrak head hunter on right side anyway

[mystic belfry]

They don't explain it well

:v

[placid portal]

The crit chance is fixed from what I can tell

[opaque crane]

There are so many stupid nodes in the tree that nobody will ever want to actually take that pollute it

[placid portal]

33% on 1 ~ 10 stacks

[solemn niche]

im shelving my vet until next skill update

[tough snow]

33% regardless of stack amount?

[placid portal]

Ye

[solemn niche]

i want to keep the fond memories of patch 14

[tough snow]

that is so poorly worded

[quaint valve]

Also there's kind of a possible bug where the next bullet shot always crits, even on 1 stack

[rare summit]

anyone have any decent close in builds with stealth?

[opaque crane]

Who the hell sees competitive urge and goes “ah, I wanna use this”

[mystic belfry]

🤔 I guess the play would be to dip deadshot, then take invigorated so you have a tiny bit of block/shove stamina when you swap back to melee

[vestal sinew]

Lay it on me fellas. what build to run for vet. Tried to make my own but feel like shit compared to previous vet talents.

[placid portal]

Urge deceptively high uptime

[quaint valve]

And the next shot uses up all the crit stacks. So only the other buffs remain on the duration

[opaque crane]

But between that and say any of the top picks would you take it over those

[mystic belfry]

Deadshot + Weapon Specialist would put you at 25+33 crit just with those two

[quaint valve]

I throw it on if I have an extra point, on auric it tends to proc

[placid portal]

Too much points

[opaque crane]

Or 20% for a second grenade cause I can’t make room for these extras

[ebon quartz]

"ranged Finesse power" is?

[mystic belfry]

Crit and weakpoint damage

[opaque crane]

Or even the better ammo/medkit

[placid portal]

Crit and weakpoint

[ebon quartz]

Ahhh

[junior needle]

crit/weakspot damage

[ebon quartz]

Thank you

[sweet basalt]

Wow most of these keystones are worthless

[junior needle]

Unless your gun has a good base modifier for those, it's not very good at all

[tough snow]

is fatsharks plan to make the vet tree so convoluted and esoteric

cuz thats what it seems like...

[placid portal]

The weapon specialist recovering 20 stam is nice

[midnight mortar]

From experience trying the marksman keystone, it's pretty unimpactful with any slow firerate precision weapons.

[mystic belfry]

They should switch For The Emporer with that +25 Toughness node

[opaque crane]

20% base damage only helps if the weapon has high base damage to begin with imo. Does that actually help hit any bps? Who knows cause god knows what your team will be using.

[placid portal]

But worth 20 points ? nah

[midnight mortar]

I'm likely going to avoid keystones if only because the additional power/impact they provide is too marginal or specific compared to the benefits of other talents earlier in the tree.

[mystic belfry]

We got this random buff

[midnight mortar]

Only the far right melee keystone may be worth dipping into.

[placid portal]

Ye

[quaint valve]

Right side keystone actually does lots of damage but the tree survivability sucks. Middle keystone is meh but still pretty good, especially for boss deleting. Right side keystone is actually great and feels good to use

[livid relic]

Middle keystone is decent.

[placid portal]

20 stam is good but not so for investment cost

[sweet basalt]

The left is a 'what the fuck'

[midnight mortar]

I didn't find it to be all that meaningful in the aurics I played.

[frank ledge]

Far right is quite mediocre

[sweet basalt]

"You can't move or it no werk'

[midnight mortar]

Not in a way I could feel anyway.

[frank ledge]

It's a single guaranteed crit

[placid portal]

Bruh

[midnight mortar]

At the cost of not being able to ping for ease of IDing.

[livid relic]

It's a single guaranteed crit every 2-3 seconds lmao

[midnight mortar]

The concept of focus targets for pinging never sat well with me though.

[frank ledge]

I rather have more DR and utilities thanks.

[midnight mortar]

Given that the issue has always been quantity over quality in pingable enemies.

[livid relic]

Weapon Specialist with Revolver is unhinged

[frank ledge]

With current director I wish you good luck running revolver

[placid portal]

Lol

[quaint valve]

Sure but it's good on single fire weapons, revolver and plasma in particular benefit

[frank ledge]

even reloading 1 bullet on kill, the ammo

[placid portal]

Did same mission enemy spawn both directions in medicae room

[wraith locust]

revolver crits a lot of the time anyway with surgicl

[still pollen]

Other than power cycler, what blessing should I take for power swords?

[midnight patrol]

Lol no one told me that Infiltrate also means monsters ignore you

[wraith locust]

brutal mom

[frank ledge]

BM

[dusty rock]

so what in a quick way , how is vet new stones ?

[midnight patrol]

Its so much easier lining weakpoint shots when they're not wailing on your ass

[quaint valve]

Brutal momentum or slaughterer is fine

[mystic belfry]

🤔 Las pistol with Weapons Specialist and Deadshot and burn on crit blessing?

[midnight patrol]

Also It seems Infil works very well with the marksman keystones

[quaint valve]

Left side keystone actually does lots of damage but the tree survivability sucks. Middle keystone is meh but still good, especially for boss deleting. Right side keystone is actually great and feels good to use

[junior needle]

You do so much damage with laspistol crits it makes infernus mostly boss damage

[midnight patrol]

Burning doesnt add that much, about 11-15k damage from burning alone?

[quaint valve]

I think this might be the way to provide survivability, but I haven't tested it yet

[midnight patrol]

Harder hitting weapons make up for it

[mystic belfry]

hmm

[frank ledge]

You can ignore keystone

[placid portal]

Ye

[mystic belfry]

What ranged weapons have good crit blessings?

[placid portal]

Keystones dont exist

[midnight patrol]

The thing is you dont have to be passive, you can be surprisingly agressive a marksman with infil

[delicate moat]

i tried left tree with vrak

[opaque crane]

The right keystone is the least intrusive on basic gameplay but its still dumb imo

[delicate moat]

felt awful to actually use

[dusty rock]

so left side shooty build is fucked , middle is still throw krak and bonk things and right now exist to be space vietcong hidden shooty stabby imperial guard ?

[midnight patrol]

Left tree works very well, with anything else but the left tree ability lol

[midnight mortar]

Turns out finesse power isn't really a huge game changer when it comes to TTK or breakpoints given how its currently implemented. So the marksman keystone ends up feeling unimpressive at best.

[bold ibex]

my dumbass assumed that with the added keystones, Fatshark would of course consolidate some of the previous nodes and make it so Vets didn't have 20 more nodes than everyone else.

how could I be so gullible?

[quaint valve]

Basically

[midnight mortar]

First time? Just remember they use Monkey's Paws to fulfill their development goals.

[bold ibex]

https://i.redd.it/zoudzg7sfb0c1.jpg

[sharp ember]

personal rankings
marksman: not bad but restrictive in ranged weapon choice
tagging: useful for generalist shout builds
right side: really good for melee revolver builds

[midnight mortar]

There will always be some strange decision or cost you never thought they'd do.

[dusty rock]

Fatshark moment doing a useless perk update so

[midnight mortar]

Like adding in more tax nodes.

[soft solstice]

Commando keystone is cool but I keep wanting to not waste my stacks. I know they’re easy to get but it feels wrong to switch to my melee to only deal with one enemy

[bold ibex]

i dunno why ia ssumed anything else after their 'generous' change to crafting... let us use two respecs on any category instead of one each.

[edgy condor]

Someone pin this and force fatshark to see it please

[opaque crane]

That’s the problem you are punished for doing basic gameplay stuff

With all three keystones

[soft solstice]

You can ignore it fine but it feels wrong to

[mystic belfry]

Even with swap capstone makes you never want to pre-swap to your gun

[midnight mortar]

You want them to potentially see anything, you'll need to post it on the forums.

[dusty rock]

so left side is only for lasguns & auto guns ?

Middle is victor witch hunter from vermintide ?

and righ side we can go rambo melee relvover/shotgun/bolter ?

[bold ibex]

i honestly expected to see them be like every other keystone where they just reward players for playing their class normally.

[opaque crane]

Me too

[quaint valve]

Right side with full auto mod on vraks feels great

[placid portal]

Same

[mystic belfry]

Middle is worse than WHC

[midnight mortar]

Left side is terrible for single shot lasguns. Left side only really benefits the rapid fire ones.

[opaque crane]

Look at momentum on zealot and compare it to specialist on vet

[sharp ember]

in a simplified way yeah pretty much

[dusty rock]

what the fuck

[finite imp]

I just wanna spray my ciag

[waxen lark]

The middle keystone is pretty great, I like it

[frank ledge]

2 of our current keystones are encouraging detrimental behavior

[finite imp]

All I do

[mystic belfry]

I wouldn't actually put autoguns out of the running for the right side tree

[frank ledge]

Which is quite bad for pub vets

[opaque crane]

Exactly

[finite imp]

Spray hot lead and eat peanut

[mystic belfry]

You can get a lot of DPS in that 10 seconds

[midnight patrol]

Left side is amazing with the Vraks

You hit a lot of breakpoints

[mystic belfry]

Sorry, five seconds

[soft solstice]

Even with only 2 or so stacks, the middle keystone is still fine. Good team value with the buff nodes

[opaque crane]

The keystones interfere with core basics of gameplay

[midnight patrol]

Its a point and click adventure

[frank ledge]

I use vraks with middle tree

[serene sage]

new tree feels really meh lol

[mystic belfry]

yes

[sharp ember]

any gun with decent swap speed would benefit from right side keystone

[opaque crane]

They make you do stuff you wouldn’t do for marginal benefit and if you aren’t then you are punished and gain nothing out of the points you spent

[finite imp]

I mean at least it's a start

[bold ibex]

Dumb question but... when they say 'tagging' an enemy, do they actually mean you hitting the tag button and not the active effect from fire volley?

[dusty rock]

I was using left side before patch for Lasgun & Auto guns and krieglas .... now well if I understand its more for the kantral las uzi

[midnight patrol]

Infil with its 30% buff after you break stealth and then 10 seconds where you are a wallflower works perfectly well together too

[soft solstice]

I don’t mind the general changes, all the toughness regen being at the start brings it in line with everyone else

[finite imp]

Shitty thing is fat shark never just hotfixes random ba

Bs

[midnight patrol]

You now body shot anything smol around you

[soft solstice]

They’re a bit worst now but you can get more than 1 in a build now

[sharp ember]

it gives your tagged enemies a special color and icon

manual tag

[finite imp]

You want a tiny thing fixed oh no you gotta wait for a massive update and even then it might not get fixed

[bold ibex]

fuck that

[mystic belfry]

5 Seconds of 20% attack speed 33% crit, add on deadshot and it's +55% crit, add on Agile Engagement and it's +25% damage too

[midnight patrol]

Also a damage buff against that one contact

[waxen lark]

Left keystone needs a longer grace period of being able to move between weakspot hits, it's nuts thinking that having to pull your melee weapon out for ten seconds to fight what's right in front of you is completely killing your keystone's effect

[bold ibex]

where did the 25% toughness regen on elite kill node go?

[vestal sinew]

I mean its not that bad compared to the mental gymanstics that is the left tree

[midnight mortar]

*fixes your premium cosmetic https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046912126746374274/1174081154329084015/2da6a83e2794b746d843919f53d8147581006aa5.jpeg?ex=65664b48&is=6553d648&hm=25126f5717f1d8529f58accc4ef9c2c99b4b121b703f0d5f2bb4dc70f4304f9b&

[still pollen]

What's the difference between mk III and mk VI power swords?

[soft solstice]

Very top in middle

[opaque crane]

The explanation of left side keystone is convoluted as hell

[placid portal]

Middle top

[midnight mortar]

Moveset.

[mystic belfry]

Nerfed and up here

[waxen lark]

Attack pattern

[midnight mortar]

Mk3 has horizontal heavies.

[fading anvil]

G o d, the krieg coat was already not good and then they go and revoke breathing privilages on it too

[placid portal]

Mk6 has a strikedown mixed up in the light

[midnight mortar]

Mk6 has horizontal lights. And a slightly faster energize animation.

[dusty rock]

quite fitting for xbox players ....

[serene bough]

Someone give me a build for shotguns

[bold ibex]

holy shit they nerfed it too?

[serene bough]

Pls

[mystic belfry]

Yep.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkTide/comments/17v1okc/vet_stealth_nerfs_and_buffs_written_out/?rdt=62244

They nerfed a lot

[midnight mortar]

No no, it's actually a hint at genestealers because all the Krieg vets are actually genestealers with collapsed lungs that don't need to breathe as much.

[opaque crane]

And then oh if you crouch walk like an idiot for 0.75 seconds you will gain 1 stack. But wait moving removes them… OH you can shoot and kill something in the head and move for 3 seconds

[soft solstice]

yes but you can get it for only 2 points no matter what build you're using, you don't have to spend 6 points to get it if you're not going pure middle path

[opaque crane]

Cause we’re all counting seconds while we play

[placid portal]

They are nerfing it so you take exhilrating but it's still bugged

[bold ibex]

am i the only one who sees the insanity of having vets keystones have... lemme check. FIVE unlockable nodes on top of the huge talent tax?

[placid portal]

Hmm yes 15% toughness but I take 30% more damage

[waxen lark]

Imagine being able to consistently hit headshots when your fps goes from 100 to ~20 seemingly at random

[opaque crane]

It’s ridiculous

[midnight mortar]

Veteran must pay the price for 9 months of being good.

[mystic belfry]

Something I actually haven't checked. What does this talent consider an aura?

[frank ledge]

None of my builds go into keystone modifiers

[bold ibex]

I think w would've been better off if they just did nothing

[mystic belfry]

Just the yellow talent auras?

[vestal sinew]

Makes sense since the respirator was supposed to be here, but we dont have the tube connecting to it. Fatshark removed it sinces it redundant

[placid portal]

Coherency and voice

[frank ledge]

That's what we are encouraged to do outside of ditching keystones

[fading anvil]

Man, I miss the days of being a T-800 with the BRautogun and just wading into shooter hordes and never dying

[mystic belfry]

Oh, it effects voice of command?

[midnight mortar]

I mean, what would make sense was if they took the already existing reasonably sized rebreather box on psyker and just used the same damn model.

[hearty panther]

It's just coherency.

[soft solstice]

the voice of command skill that givefs bonus toughness is based on coherency

[midnight mortar]

Instead they just adjusted the Z axis and called it a day.

[bold ibex]

Fatshark should just fire everyone who was involved in this talent rework and try again

[hearty panther]

Everything that applies during coherency falls into that bracket.

[waxen lark]

Old talent tree was bloated with too many nodes, and now it's still bloated. Slightly fewer nodes, but now we have keystones

[vestal sinew]

Yo indie company man chill. You gonna overwork them

[serene temple]

the specialist keystone seems super super good

[opaque crane]

I want to understand who designed keystones that punish the basic gameplay loop and why they thought it was a good idea

[mystic belfry]

Hmm, that's not awful, but I don't think I'd spend a point on it

[placid portal]

Ye

[serene temple]

how so?

[midnight mortar]

Ah fuck. I just made sure Bjorn would sleep in a fridge box for the winter with my comment. I'm so sorry.

[placid portal]

Lol

[opaque crane]

You get punished for literally moving, you can’t mark or tag as much as you want, and you may be promoted to weapon swap when you otherwise wouldn’t.

[stone birch]

huh, FS buffed both the revolver and the power swords this patch..

[tough snow]

can anyone give me a laymans breakdown on what stamina actually does in this game, i can still sprint and dodge without it?

[vestal sinew]

Stop sabotaging our updates man

[midnight mortar]

😔

[soft solstice]

the commando one encourgages you to swap your weapons often which is part of the whole hybrid combat thing but it also forces you into situations where you don't want to switch from your gun to melee to kill a few small enemies since it'd waste your stacks

[serene bough]

Blocks/push/sprint

[hearty panther]

It's got pretty massive benefit. Everyone other than Zealot also has a +Aura node. You can stay further apart while still being in partial or full coherency, so you benefit from all their effects, plus continue to benefit for your own effects like Demo Specialist, VoC, ammo, etc.

[soft solstice]

stamina effecting sprinting and blocking, and is used to push

if you're out of stamina, your sprint speed is reduced, and blocking hits will go through your guard

[midnight mortar]

Push attacks require stamina too.

[bold ibex]

also, they figured out the magic of just having a single mid point after an important node choice (one node gives you the choice of all three grenades)

Why didn't they just, you know, fucking do that before and after aura and ability choices too? Don't tax people who want the single useful aura or whatnot

[placid portal]

You use more stamina blocking what you dont see as well

Iirc more stamina bars mean stronger push strength

[soft solstice]

really?

[opaque crane]

I can mark 1 special every 16 seconds for max damage. Out of the 10 that spawn on hi int shock

[dusty rock]

So to sum up ... we have a shadow nerf + butchering of the veteran for keystones that basically goes mostly again the logic of the game/class
=> We waited for those way after the introduction of the rework and all other classes had their keystones worked and done "good"

I m just curious to see who take the decision in fatshark to do those kind of things , feels like total chaos

[waxen lark]

Don't use that 8 stack talent imo, if you're like me and prefer to just mark everything then it's not worth

[tough snow]

does iron will consider the bonus toughness from shout for the purposes of calculating current % toughness?

[placid portal]

Yez

[waxen lark]

Yeah lol it's great

Probaby the best thing going for Vet right now

[midnight mortar]

Well, I will say this was to be expected. After all, they scrapped their talent tree twice before this point.

[placid portal]

Still good

[mystic belfry]

Maybe this for melee knife

[gilded wraith]

Odd question, but any talents that have synergy with shredder grenade damage? (Like the boosted ogryn damage talent)

[soft solstice]

focus target builds stacks pretty fast and I think even 2-3 stacks is enough to give decent benefits, a 15% toughness regen for you and people in your aura is good value when you can pump it out pretty fast

[finite imp]

Yeah this boggles my mind especially when I have 12 rangers coming at me and I have zero ammo no nades, no pants, no dick, dehydrated , only had 2 hours of sleep,have a bum leg, crows feet vericose veins, type 1 diabetes and Am armed with a jello pudding cup

[placid portal]

No respite

[dusty rock]

Yeah no surprise , when they said keystones were coming after felt like a deja-vu before disaster

[bold ibex]

what kills me is, just like with the crafting system changes, they do things that make the game /worse/ when obvious, easier solutions exist. It's almost like they get off on screwing with their players.

[mystic belfry]

There's some blessings that trigger on bleeding enemies

[opaque crane]

That’s the problem I like marking everything and I think it’s a massive part of team communication. Yet we’re incentivized to not communicate critical knowledge.

[dusty rock]

I agree

[gilded wraith]

Thanks!

[waxen lark]

I would replace the bleed-on-hit talent for demo stockpile, the rest looks good imo

[astral blade]

vet tree is worse than ever huh

[opaque crane]

Absolutely and especially the no dick part

[placid portal]

Grenade stagger is strong enoufh to knock dowm enemies

[soft solstice]

bleed on hit is super good for melee knife, what are you talking about

[mystic belfry]

Yeah, maybe, I mostly wanted to soo what kind of impact the extra bleed would hav

[finite imp]

I got both of mine blown off in the war

[placid portal]

Sheesh

[waxen lark]

If you're okay with meleeing something sixteen times for max bleed stacks (gross)

[placid portal]

Omly need bleed for mercy

[dusty rock]

Well I wont play darktide until next patch when my 3 friends will hear that they are going to laugh hard since we play together and I keep them up on it

[soft solstice]

doesn't need max bleed to give good value

[waxen lark]

Just take flesh tearer weapon blessing instead, honestly

[finite imp]

I want pizza

[placid portal]

Same

[waxen lark]

You can achieve good crit and apply plenty of bleed

[finite imp]

Y'all want pizza?

[gilded wraith]

Got a really weird string of double grenades with the 20% talent... haven't been able to replicate it though. Maybe just an rng generator being not so rng.

[opaque crane]

I got a mechanicus to install an old freezer handle as a new one when a dog ate mine. Just have to wave incense on it to keep the machine spirit happy!

[raw steppe]

you dont use bleed on hit to max bleed lol

you use it to enable mercy killer

while also using a good blessing

[finite imp]

Are we insane

[raw steppe]

like uncanny

instead of garbage like lacerate

[placid portal]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/452219191580295168/1073597602165182515/tumblr_pjnsxiafSJ1vav2cko1_400.gif

[soft solstice]

bleed is just free damage against everything

[waxen lark]

It costs a point, it isn't free

[placid portal]

Minus carapace

[opaque crane]

I prefer the term creative

[raw steppe]

correct, but it essentially lets you have a 3 blessing knife

[finite imp]

Eccentric

[raw steppe]

that's pretty worth the skillpoint

[finite imp]

Unorthodox

[raw steppe]

especially since mercy killer uncanny is pretty insane damage

[finite imp]

Creative is just Italian for gay

[dusty rock]

thanks lads , well time for vermintide with the boys this weekend

the update "Circus of the heretics" or whatever is a fitting name for FS management its must be another inside joke just like the golden gag in the premium shop

[vestal sinew]

[finite imp]

Clown update

[karmic musk]

Sounds like its working as intended then

[opaque crane]

That is news to me

[placid portal]

This is too real

[bold ibex]

Oh I just realized. the 'reworks' basically made it impossible to get the +ogryn and +elite damage from the lower middle tree. That's... pretty dickish

[finite imp]

That's because we're better than them. We're built different.

[opaque crane]

I’m wondering why ogryn doesn’t have to rotate between lights and heavies to boost up his heavy attack damage

[gusty bison]

@opaque crane Btw for hi shock u can spam mark. If u kill what u mark you always have 2 stacks. Which is 10% tou replenish and 10% stamina replenish on marked target kill for the whole team

[vestal sinew]

This was rlly tilting

[karmic musk]

You still have people praising these keystones, so maybe we're monkeys all along

[gilded wraith]

True, but it was about 10-12 in a row with underhand tosses. I thought I'd found something nifty, but couldn't replicate.

[finite imp]

Guys what if we're just wrong and dumb and lame

Then what

[bold ibex]

basically all of my builds previously dipped for those, got the +25% toughness regen, and still had room to go down either of the other two trees. I'm fairly sure the keystones all are pretty awful compared to that.

[placid portal]

Lazy? Sure

[mystic belfry]

based chat

[vestal sinew]

I just want to shoot and slash heretics. Not do mental gymanstics

[finite imp]

Lazy? A keystone encourages you not to move kmao

Lmao

[waxen lark]

I just like the weapon master and marking keystones, they're pretty good but for some reason they each require 21 skill points to reach with the other classes only have to spend 17

[placid portal]

This is blessed by empra

[opaque crane]

That’s good to know

[finite imp]

Welp I'm hungry for midnight snakc

[astral blade]

hope the fat shark devs fix the pathing for vet tree

[finite imp]

They already tried once. 2nd time's the charm I guess

[placid portal]

Lol

[opaque crane]

I am an idiot and an asshole but I know there is fundamental stuff wrong with these keystones

[mystic belfry]

I am an idiot and an asshole

[karmic musk]

You can have Kill on Headshot on Marksman Focus and it would still be trash design lmao

[astral blade]

bro ya neither of those but you are right

[placid portal]

They are still aiming for their 3 fundemental classes
Sharpshooty
Shouty boss
Sneaky commando

[finite imp]

I am an idiot and an asshole and I have dyslexia and I have chronic anxiety and I am allergic to raisin but even I can see why vets love cinnamon toast crunch

[vestal sinew]

Didnt they nerf shouty boi too

[placid portal]

Only wxtra toughness

[astral blade]

sneaky commando

[placid portal]

Was well deserved tbh

[opaque crane]

I appreciate that 👍

[waxen lark]

Shout nerfed, crucial talents got shuffled and values lowered because vets were too good at killing everything

[mystic belfry]

Ngl, the right capstone probably is the handiest to have, but it doesn't feel stealthy or overtly melee

it's specifically hybrid

[astral blade]

i fit that role perfectly

[mystic belfry]

Shout getting nerfed is one of the few changes I agree with tbh

That did need to happen

[finite imp]

God forbid the class meant to kill elites does so

[bold ibex]

only fatshark could bill a capstone addition as an excuse to nerf a class into the ground.

[placid portal]

Agreed

[vestal sinew]

I wuld have liked the tagging if it didnt have stacks mechanic

[placid portal]

100 was too much

[waxen lark]

Right keystone feels like it's much more slanted in favor of melee combat, which I think was the intention

[mystic belfry]

The biggest sin isn't even the various talent nerfs

[karmic musk]

Pretty sure its for Shotguns

[mystic belfry]

it's splitting up the god damned talents and forcing bad ones to be taken as tax to get to them

[karmic musk]

Now just waiting for actual Shotgun buff

[waxen lark]

They are going to nerf the revolver so hard, I can feel it 💀

Everyone and their mom is using it

[placid portal]

Lol

[quiet oriole]

dont you put that curse on us

[astral blade]

i like the middle key stone the best

[placid portal]

Still see plasma

[mystic belfry]

For example, Elite and Ogryn/Boss really can't both be taken, and you also need to take more trash to buy em

[finite imp]

Shotguns need higher effective range and a passive damage buff when within short range

[astral blade]

i'm generally pinging targets anyways

[waxen lark]

Shotguns will replace the revolver when it gets nerfed I think, they have similar use cases and are almost just as quick to draw

[finite imp]

Pinging should be a tool not essential to a build

[astral blade]

truth

[gusty bison]

The middle and right keystones are actually really strong. Main issue is the opp cost to get to them.

The left one has potential but is tricky to use

[waxen lark]

Pinging can be essential to a build

I don't get why it's a bad thing

[frail skiff]

Can someone tell me what Ranged Finesse Power is on Marksman's focus

[waxen lark]

Just PING

[mystic belfry]

I'm actually vaguely tempted by the middle capstone

[astral blade]

worth it

[mystic belfry]

But I can't reach it with my melee build

So...

[gusty bison]

I mean. It can be essential to a build. It just shouldnt be essential to every build

[mystic belfry]

I'd need six talents points to get the capstone and the node for it I would want

[acoustic wyvern]

Combine left keystone with voc for a balanced good time

[pulsar shore]

Mid keystone is MVP among others

[finite imp]

I do. But it means I cant fire at multiple targets with my DAKKA cannon without stopping to ping more

[waxen lark]

"Oooogghh I need to wait 16 seconds between pings so I can maximize my valuuueee"
JUST PING

[mystic belfry]

namely the AoE toughness

Target Down! is kind dope tbh

[finite imp]

IM PINGINGGGG

[sharp ember]

i'm iffy on how marksman focus isn't rewarding for weapons that aren't medium power rifles

i think it's easy to build and maintain though

[finite imp]

Important fucking question

[dusty ferry]

It is weird but it does add a weakspot damage multiplier

[midnight patrol]

Its quite good with headhunter rifles of all types now

[finite imp]

Does grenade tinkerer still give you stun immunity

[mystic belfry]

I need Fatshark to explain to me why marksman is setup to work with only high fire rate

[sharp ember]

everyone was losing their minds over moving loses stacks, but it's only like 1 stack per second

[midnight mortar]

No. That was patched.

[frail skiff]

I see, thank you

[mystic belfry]

Why did they sent Plasma and revolver to the right side

[midnight patrol]

The IAG's.. not so much

[placid portal]

Despite vet's horrible state of chaos I love carnival's visuals

[finite imp]

I can stop screaming it now

[sharp ember]

it's fixed

oop

[bold ibex]

the shout nerf was maybe justified... but idk why they couldn't have just allowed the vet abilities to possibly regen up the nerfed amount. "Like yeah, you have 50 less at base, but you can use all these talents to fill that back up with good play"

[finite imp]

WOW TOO SLOW YOU INBECILE

[opaque crane]

If you can stand still for that long or are okay with waiting to tag stuff then yeah the potential is there. But my issue is if it’s fun screwing with basic gameplay stuff and complicating things that every other class takes for granted.

[placid portal]

Wait who found out about that

[hybrid river]

True plasmacels go middle

[waxen lark]

If you move into a slide, it'll deduct an extra one when you initiate a slide 💀

[faint blade]

Just ping everything 24/7 to keep the DMG Buff up lol

[frail skiff]

Need an opinion. Which keystone should I focus for an Agripinna braced auto gun build?

[opaque crane]

You can’t just have a basic shoot stuff no strings attached anymore on vet because every keystone screws with a basic gameplay element

[sharp ember]

lmao that's silly

[lament elm]

Eh, right side is nice for plasma cause crits + not having to reload

[worthy escarp]

Anyone got a list of whats currently broken critically for the veteran? Noticing I am very squishy after todays/yesterdays patch

[midnight patrol]

Good thing I never mastered slide dodging yet

[mystic belfry]

Tbh, the ping spam isn't even for the slight damage

[midnight patrol]

[waxen lark]

Unironically the way to go

[lament elm]

Vet durability nerfed again like wtf fatshark

[opaque crane]

The way I play isn’t being accentuated it is being uprooted and changed

[mystic belfry]

Ping spam for this

[lament elm]

At this point just make veteran have 1 hp and 1 toughness

[finite imp]

I don't need more than that

[boreal panther]

Did they remove Raking Fire or am I just blind?

[acoustic wyvern]

You gain stacks more easily than losing stacks. This is good. When you kill with ranged weakspot youbdont losenstacks for 3 seconds. Why are you guys complaining about losing stacks

[placid portal]

Still with you

[bold ibex]

Wait. WAIT. They added the ability to highlight ogryn but if you take it, you can't highlight shooters and chain your volleyfire ability forever?

[faint blade]

Yeah that too but you get what I mean, ain't even worth waiting for the Stacks which is why I don't get people saying that you MUST go for 8 stacks. Bitch I already have not enough skill points now I need to spend more?

[bold ibex]

WHY NOT JUST, IDK, ADD OGRYNS IN WITH SHOOTERS?

[finite imp]

These KARKING squigs aiming for the DICK

[mystic belfry]

Just liek the original iteration of vet, yeah. it's one or the other

You always want shooters btw

[midnight mortar]

Oh, you just noticed?

[lament elm]

It was like that too before skill trees existed

[chilly jewel]

that should generate bonus stacks tbh

[shrewd sierra]

Well those giant fucking ogryns are really hard to see

[bold ibex]

there's literally no reason to not choose shooters

[placid portal]

Kinda dumb tbh and no dmg bonus like take it down like old vey

[mystic belfry]

Ogryn targeting is dead in the water and trash

[worthy escarp]

Why, we are so fuckable right now

[mystic belfry]

Just take krak instead

[acoustic wyvern]

Thats not a vet, thats a pervert vet

[finite imp]

COCKSHOT

[lament elm]

Ogryn targeting is useless

[faint blade]

Just go Shooter and skill 20% unyielding DMG on the middle. Easy.

[midnight patrol]

Hmm... This seems like it could be a build lmao

[lament elm]

Ogryn targeting used to also give you ogryn and mostrosity damage

[worthy escarp]

We have worse toughness right now then the Psyker imo, and I do all classes

[finite imp]

GET IN THERE MAKE EM SCREAM

[lament elm]

But now it just… targets ogryns

[vestal sinew]

Trueee

[mystic belfry]

Even if you wait for max stacks, I still wouldn't take that talent

[placid portal]

Cringe

[mystic belfry]

Also guys

[faint blade]

Waiting for the Stacks is only worth it on Bosses

[dusty ferry]

||moan*||

[waxen lark]

Any time you have groups of melee enemies approaching you and you have to pull out your melee weapon, you're going to lose all your stacks. It's lame

[mystic belfry]

Did you noticethey nerfed Focus Target! damage before they even released it?

[dusty ferry]

[mystic belfry]

In the teaser it was 30% base max

[faint blade]

They did what?

[bold ibex]

do you think anyone at fatshark plays their own game?

[lament elm]

Honestly it might be better to just take no keystones and pick up as many auras as possible while spamming shout

[midnight mortar]

Lol no version control.

[mystic belfry]

Now it's 20% without a node

[faint blade]

[vestal sinew]

Literally every other class its just simple passives like crit to get X or hp based etc.

[finite imp]

Yeah they just don't play vet

[acoustic wyvern]

Ao you want it to be 100% up? Thats grounds for a nerf. You gain stacks more easily than lose em

[midnight patrol]

NGL this is how I was able to do 35k damage with nothing but my Vraks in a few seconds on a Monster

[mystic belfry]

if you go look up a video of the teaser you can see it for yourself

They didn't even let it enter the game to see how 30% did lol

[lament elm]

Tfw veteran complain that they have no easy way to get toughness like everyone else, fs solution? Nerf kill confirmed into the ground

[midnight patrol]

Crouched, went infil, then full auto clicks into its head as it focused on everyone else lol

[faint blade]

Yeah the boss dmg is insane

[fierce cloak]

why do i have to jump through like 30 hoops to get my good bonuses

[mystic belfry]

So now it's litterally saltzspyre ping but worse in every way damage wise

[vestal sinew]

Vets gotta crabwalk look at stacks bla bla bla

[lament elm]

Tfw kill confirmed regens you less toughness than 1 groaner poking you once thanks fs

[fierce cloak]

fuck vet im going back to zealot it plays pretty much the same but better

[waxen lark]

The uptime is a problem, on harder difficulties it's very common to always have groups of something nearby ready to hit you, so you have to move or block

[midnight patrol]

Gunker is also just as funny

[gusty bison]

But it gives the team toughness and stamina

Sooo

[mystic belfry]

With a node

[midnight patrol]

They do old Vet's job better

[waxen lark]

I've played a few matches tonight and I reached max stacks around four times on average in a 30-40 minute missions

[gusty bison]

Well yes

[finite imp]

Guys. The sleeping meds have activated

[mystic belfry]

Tbh the toughness and stamina is the only thing making the ping worth anything

[finite imp]

Let's go

To bed

[acoustic wyvern]

So you kill 1 in the head and move. 3 seconds you wont lose stacks. Its not hard to hit the head

[midnight patrol]

Speak for yourself, its 1pm here

[hazy ravine]

anyone know a good blessing I should put on my boltgun?

[stuck crystal]

I mean, middle keystone is a damage increase on anything you ping and shoot

[opaque crane]

Few players will appreciate or even notice stamina being restored in pubs

[chilly jewel]

Weird, I can keep 15 stacks up pretty easy during hordes with the columnus

[finite imp]

Surgical

[stuck crystal]

AND you get bonuses for the team

[opaque crane]

How many people even use stamina enough for that to make an actual difference

[hazy ravine]

really?

[finite imp]

Shattering blow or whatever it's calls

[bold ibex]

man i'm just so salty. Every time Fatshark 'buffs' or 'adds' things, they invalidate all my old playstyles. I'm willing to believe current vet and the new keystones are 'good' but they're not how I enjoyed playing vet for the last several months.

[fierce cloak]

or i could play zealot with the crit keystone and be better

[gusty bison]

Stamina is super valuable tbh

[finite imp]

YOU THINK IM FUCKING WITH YOU OR SOMETHING AM I A GOD DAMN LIAR NOW

AM I A TV SET

[opaque crane]

I agree but I’m saying how many people care in pubs though

[mystic belfry]

No worries guys, there's a node to fix all your problems with marksman's focus

[atomic zephyr]

i suck at aiming and need executioners stance to actually hit anything at range because i cant fucking see anything
thats why i play vet

[mystic belfry]

That'll do ya

[finite imp]

ARE YOU TWISTIN MY KNIBS

[waxen lark]

What is the boltgun's crit modifier anyway

[gusty bison]

Dont care about what pubs care about.

You can be feeding them infinite toughness and they will still complain

[opaque crane]

It’s a benefit to the team but its use depends on the skill of the players you play with

[stuck crystal]

Spam ping and hit whatever lit up

[finite imp]

Surgical is good on bolter

[atomic zephyr]

thats what i do when i run shout

[mystic belfry]

Did you know that the Ping keystone allows mild griefing?

[hazy ravine]

ok thanks

[finite imp]

Does bolter get crucian roulette?

[mystic belfry]

Unlike normal pings, you can spam it on the same target

[gusty bison]

Atm stamina is esp good on vet with deadshot being an easy nab

[finite imp]

That's be a good one too

[atomic zephyr]

was joking anyway i just dont like zealot vibes

even gun zealot

[mystic belfry]

Look at something and just spam click to constantly make the ping noise

Non-stop

[opaque crane]

I’ve been running 3 stam curios since patch 13

But duck and dive has always been enough

[waxen lark]

Equip three +health curios like a normal person

:^)

[stuck crystal]

Have you tried revolver zealot? It's basically a more melee capable vet

[finite imp]

On paper it sounds bad but when you see how fast the stacks actually build you're like ooooh

[waxen lark]

Melee vet is actually pretty good now so I'm not so sure

[mystic belfry]

I've played Zealot the most out of the classes

[finite imp]

Have you tried revolver ocelot

[mystic belfry]

It's not better really, it's different

[bold ibex]

oh the new mission just makes me CTD every time it loads. Neat. ._.

[finite imp]

He's pretty good

[hazy ravine]

yeah it seems like the case

[fierce cloak]

idk zealot feels a lot better than vet rn

[finite imp]

That's part of the difficulty

[gusty bison]

Vovler zealot is actuallt worse than volver vet atm

[stuck crystal]

Always has

[waxen lark]

Left keystone for vet is rough, the other two are decent

[gusty bison]

Cos volver vet gets 40% toughness on demand and free volver reloads

[finite imp]

Unless you're an absolute gun nut all the other classes with their pumped up kicks better run better run, faster than my ping

[waxen lark]

Some are just saying forget the keystones and try to get all the other crucial talents for survivability and damage rather than a gimmick

[gusty bison]

Build dependent

[finite imp]

This is inevitably what's going to happen...again

[gusty bison]

Some builds REALLY benefit from a keystone

Others just... dont

[fierce cloak]

the weapon specialist swap feels really good on veteran when running the columnus and the sapper shovel feels really good, but i still think zealot with combat knife and columnus feels better even without the swap and reload speed buffs just because you can move so fast and the relic is so good

[mystic belfry]

Knife gaming

[stuck crystal]

You sacrifice some ranged damage for way more melee capabilities. And CtW/Hand Cannon make sure you can just shoot or melee anything

[finite imp]

It begins

[stiff pasture]

Yeah because fatshark didn’t give it shit buffs while nerfing it

[mystic belfry]

Not begining, knife has been my second favorite melee since zealot

[gusty bison]

You lose Psword and a lot of melee finesse damage.

You also lose a LOT of ranged capability

[mystic belfry]

Thunder hammer 2 -> knife -> claw 4

[opaque crane]

Because zealot gets to play the game normally and benefit from its keystones without strings attached

[gusty bison]

Because u no longer get the free 1 bullet reload

[faint blade]

Current Commissar Build. Still Sadge I can't get really into Survivalist without spending too much.

[finite imp]

Chainsword better

[mystic belfry]

My top three melee weapons

[stuck crystal]

Yeah, who needs Psword when Heavy Sword can just mulch stuff without having to special?

[gusty bison]

Hand cannon also got fixed

So it no longer applies to melee

Soooo

[stiff pasture]

Chainsword

[finite imp]

An unactivated psword hits like a dandelion

[calm vine]

any accatran builds?

[stuck crystal]

No, but CtW does.

[finite imp]

The chainsword answers almost every threat

[mystic belfry]

This is order of my favorites melee, nothing else like power or w/e

[stuck crystal]

It turns any carapace armour into flak for the duration

[gusty bison]

Its still a lot slower than Psword

[finite imp]

And it kills hordes faster

[waxen lark]

I mean I like it with slaugterer but without it, not worth

[gusty bison]

Like a LOT vs crushers

[stuck crystal]

Yeeah, that's why you dome crushers with your revolver

[gusty bison]

Which ur out of ammo for and need to reload

[vestal sinew]

Doomed

[stuck crystal]

Skill issue

[waxen lark]

Explode crushers with your crusher remover grenades

[finite imp]

Can we add a clown shoes mod so all footsteps squeak. For the carnival level of course

[mystic belfry]

Yeah! laz pistol is dope. :)

[gusty bison]

I mean not really? Vet literally always has 1 bullet in the chamer

Zealot doesnt

[faint blade]

Just posted mine, its okay for my purpose at least. 😄

[finite imp]

It's for myself

[calm vine]

so the recon lasgun sucks again after new veteran talent tree?

[gusty bison]

Not a skill issue just simple math

[lilac vigil]

just reload

[vestal sinew]

It sucked in the prvious tree too

[mystic belfry]

My Zealot always has bullets loaded in both of his guns

[gusty bison]

Reloading a volver takes a while tbf

[finite imp]

You're not gonna like this but it was never good

[waxen lark]

Recon las can still benefit from onslaught, but it's still outshined by other weapons

[gusty bison]

I mean as in without ever needing to stop to reload. Ever

[vestal sinew]

Recon las shoots alot n thats about it

[mystic belfry]

I love when I join a match and just see:

[gusty bison]

Vet can just never hit the reload key with a volver

[finite imp]

I just do it while I'm getting 4 knives stabbed into my chest cavity

[waxen lark]

Shock trooper + rending strikes + onslaught is sadly not possible.

[gusty bison]

And always have 1 bullet in the chameber

[austere blade]

Free plasteel

[finite imp]

Free stuff

Silver lining vets

Tomorrow I need to get pizza

[gusty bison]

Like volver zealot atm is deffo not as good as volver vet with the exception of raw TDR.

And even that is... debatable with how much toughness regen volver vet gets

[waxen lark]

I take it back, you can do this. Recon lasgun is alive baby

[finite imp]

I need to insist on getting pizza

[opaque crane]

Pizza is the best

[mystic belfry]

The actual play is las pistol zealot

or shotgun zealot

[gusty bison]

Yes

Thats the zealot play

Not volver

[finite imp]

They should add pizza to the vet tree

[mystic belfry]

No pizza

[sterile stag]

Anyone have a new tree for recon lazgun

[mystic belfry]

Pizza is banned

[finite imp]

YOU MOTHER FUCKER

[opaque crane]

An agent of nurgle is among us

[finite imp]

WHY

[mystic belfry]

If you want pizza reinstated, get fatshark to fix vet

[finite imp]

I CANNOT BELIEVE THE SHIT I AM HEARING

BANNED?

[mystic belfry]

Yeah, banned until further notice

[finite imp]

FOR FUCK SAKES

[mystic belfry]

You can have uh

[south garnet]

Is it actually viable or is it a meme build

[finite imp]

Oeanut

Peanut

[opaque crane]

If I could I would

[gusty bison]

Define viable

[finite imp]

I'll take peanut

[mystic belfry]

Corpse starch imitation mashed potatos

[finite imp]

🥜

[upper flame]

Nah. Just accept being small /j

[finite imp]

MM

[gusty bison]

Like viable as in can cleae hi5stg with it.

Or viable as in S tier

[calm prairie]

gonna have to find a pizza replacement pretty soon then

[waxen lark]

How would you fix vet anyway?
I would remove some of the fluff nodes so that vet can more easily reach the dang keystones within 17 points like the other classes instead of 20

[calm prairie]

cuz u already know vets not getting touched in part 2 and aint shit happening until well into the new year

[finite imp]

Okay the new vet staple is lamb gyros

[south garnet]

Just functional is fine

[mystic belfry]

Mix some of the shit nodes with other shit nodes to shrink the tree

[gusty bison]

Thats it really. Remove 3 nodes from each tree.

[gusty bison]

Then viable

[vestal sinew]

Get rid of all these strings attached keystones

[mystic belfry]

Remove a couple regular nods

[sterile stag]

Anyone have a build for recon lasgun?? Talent tree dm me it please 🙏

[mystic belfry]

maybe add some kind of cross paths somewhere

[finite imp]

The right side keystone is hilarious

[calm vine]

anything i should change for chainsword/laspistol build

[calm prairie]

idk why they even have nodes that increase suppression dealt to enemies

[opaque crane]

I’d remove or combine some nodes and rework the keystones to not be so intrusive to basic gameplay mechanics

[calm prairie]

its like a genuine troll

[waxen lark]

You have two extra points to spend, where do they go

[bold ibex]

and have a combined node before and after the auras so you're not penalized for going sav aura

[calm prairie]

literally just -1 point

[mystic belfry]

Replace this with a perk everyone always takes

[opaque crane]

To not punish so much for doing the right thing in the game

[mystic belfry]

Then do the same and add a similar connecting perk below the auras

[finite imp]

How about give me a fucking buff for chaining elite kills

Is that so much to ask

[midnight mortar]

Mmmmm sorry but you gotta pay the tax.

[faint blade]

Fuck the 8 Stacks in the Keystone, go for DMG Buff. Also without Shocktrooper you may have an Ammo Problem.

[opaque crane]

If it was my decision I would make it happen

[mystic belfry]

I refuse to pay taxes, am busy clutching my pearls

[gusty bison]

Just remove the three travel nodes above it

+15 toughness is actually nice

[dusty rock]

I was thinking

What if

[faint blade]

Oh no

[vestal sinew]

Clutch them pearls so that fs can give zealot the sniper cloaked skin

[finite imp]

Like if I play better I should be rewarded with the ability to be stronger. Why is this a lost idea

[mystic belfry]

Hmm, oh idea on how to make that look neat. one sec, let my get my ms paint skills

[vestal sinew]

[south garnet]

Interesting. I'd probably just do two sub nodes for ex4c, refresh and ogr6n at that point. It's already a pretty specialized tree

[dusty rock]

Circus part 2 they throw in a preview of new classes

[midnight mortar]

Whoa whoa!! Slow down there!! You need to pay the tax and ease up on that skill expression there.

[finite imp]

Imagine how much fun you could be having. Kill x amount of elites in x seconds get a 50 percent reload buff

[calm vine]

cant go for shocktrooper since its in the other path sadly

[dusty rock]

would explain they butcher/troll Vet cause a new "Vet" is coming

[inner tide]

Focus Targets feels so nice, but damn is the taxes killing any build potential to really capitalize on it

[finite imp]

Not only are alot of the buffs niche

[opaque crane]

Instead of so many reasons to lose stacks or whatever. Provide stacks for good plays instead of punishing us doing basic movement and actions.

[finite imp]

But some of them literally don't matter

[dusty rock]

arf too much thinking gotta sleep its 7 am shit

[calm vine]

you dont take the revive option for VoC?

[finite imp]

And what's even more hilarious is some of them HURT YOU

[faint blade]

https://tenor.com/view/copium-meme-pepe-frog-gif-26117735

[opaque crane]

Zealot gets everything under the sun for either moving or just killing stuff. We have to count seconds like an accountant accounts for money

[vestal sinew]

Its meh

[velvet wraith]

Vet is actually stronger than before, regular damnation btw.

[waxen lark]

Skitarii my beloved

[velvet wraith]

I retract my earlier statement today

[dusty rock]

one day Fatshark wont be ShitShark

[calm vine]

i usually go for pub games so a lot of people go down

[faint blade]

I used to, really depends. sometimes shout spam is more useufl

[vestal sinew]

Usually if u just spam the regular shout, it should help with ppl not downing in the first place

[finite imp]

Next update to the vet we get the turret from tf2

[dusty rock]

cant wait for the cringe of all the femboy admech that runs in the shadows here and there

[finite imp]

Also playing a vet is now an RTS

[spark hamlet]

An rts? How

[waxen lark]

Yessss

[finite imp]

You have to build a small city to get your damage buffs

[mystic belfry]

Alright guys hear me out:

[spark hamlet]

Oh no

[velvet wraith]

although I feel Vet is very squishy without consistent toughness regen method. Where did that talen node go where if you killed an elite you gained toughness back flat and then over time

[finite imp]

It's there

[karmic musk]

At the start middle

[spark hamlet]

Nerfed I think

[dusty rock]

up right at the start

[velvet wraith]

wow they nerfed the sht out of it

[finite imp]

Nerfed but not alot

[velvet wraith]

holy christ...

[dusty rock]

stay away

[velvet wraith]

you're smoking dck if you think that's not gutted

[waxen lark]

😇

[finite imp]

Exhilarating take down would be so fucking good if it WORKED

[idle carbon]

very clearly has too many good options, it's too powerful throw it out the window
remember vet needs to get railroaded as hard as possible

[spark hamlet]

Lol

[calm vine]

ill try your build and play around in meat grinder. hopefully FS compresses the vet tree after a few days, the tree is so bloated with filler nodes

[finite imp]

WHAT IF I AM SMOKING DICK WHAT THEN HUH YOU WANNA PILLOW FIGHT

[inner tide]

Veteran's build potential is straight up the worst of any class. It's literally impossible to specialize fully into any pathway, and if you're only taking enough to max out your ability/keystone, you have the least leftover points of any class.

[faint blade]

Not as tanky as it used to before but the DMG Buff is nice I guess?

[velvet wraith]

even in its nerfed state it's still probably worth because right now there is not a lot of good toughness stuff for vet

[inner tide]

Minimum Points to Fully Upgrade Blitz/Ability/Keystone:

Veteran: 25

Ogryn: 23

Zealot: 20

Psyker: 23

[karmic musk]

Cause Vet players are gigachads and they need less points than the others EZ

[velvet wraith]

I might have to just say goodbye to the +30% reload after elite kill...

[inner tide]

Zealot generalizes better than Veteran ffs

[dusty rock]

yep name on the list to avoid

[finite imp]

For what

[waxen lark]

Vets before were specialized against killing everything and now they want you to pick, which I think is fine. I still think the amount of nodes that are required to even reach the keystones is too dang high

[vestal sinew]

Vets paying power tax for initial launch

[karmic musk]

I never used that

[velvet wraith]

it's very good reload speed for bolt gun main

[worthy escarp]

I just had a Zealot say "The Vet isn't a frontline class, its a sniper." in relation to me pointing out the current toughness bugs (or if they're intentional)

[velvet wraith]

and/or revolver mains

[midnight mortar]

9 months of time must be paid for in taxes, penances, and nerfs.

[finite imp]

Ain't no way you're about to take the talent you said I was smoking DICK over

[waxen lark]

Oh relax, nothing meant by it

[mystic belfry]

Shotguns too

[vestal sinew]

Scavenger penance

[velvet wraith]

no choice, fat shark made this class way too squishy

[dusty rock]

doing a bit of tzeench work

[worthy escarp]

But god damn why are we so squishy, it's so silly I feel weaker then a Psyker on toughness

[waxen lark]

LOL

[finite imp]

WELL PUFF PUFF PASS MY BROTHER

[vestal sinew]

Thr shuld be a bugged perk where u take increased dmg instead of decreased

[gusty bison]

Revolvers never need to reload now

[calm prairie]

it'll never be enough in the eyes of people that took veteran's power as a personal attack by the devs on the other classes or something

[waxen lark]

Melee veteran wins this patch, all other veteran builds suffered at least a little with the re-shuffle of talents

[inner tide]

The concept, I get- but every other class can have ALL the pieces of their build AND diversify points. Veteran can't. Either you can go down the line and get all the build parts, or skip them for an incomplete build that has all the utilities you need. It is the only class that is requiring this kind of sacrifice.

[calm prairie]

I genuinely dont know why people get so worked up about that stuff in a coop PvE shooter lol

[calm vine]

why is born leader and competitive urge still a choice in the talent tree...

[finite imp]

We love game. We want game to be fun

[opaque crane]

Even melee vet is still annoying because I’m forced to pull out my gun to get stacks for melee when I otherwise wouldn’t

[mystic belfry]

Melee vet suffered too don't worry

[gusty bison]

Comp urge is actually really good

[blazing widget]

Bingo.

[frank ledge]

20 points for top to bottom versus 12-14 on everyone else

[gusty bison]

Take it if you go down mid

[astral blade]

oi comp urge is a good passive

[velvet wraith]

thoughts?

[finite imp]

Unga bunga

[finite imp]

Dicksmoker build

[calm vine]

ive tried it, it usually never procs for me.. maybe im unlucky or something

[calm prairie]

well yes, I was more referring to the toxicity towards vets and the pounding its received in this patch and 13

[mystic belfry]

Botton three perks in middle tree probably not worth it

[inner tide]

Minimum Points to Reach Keystone:

Veteran: 20

Ogryn: 18

Zealot: 17

Psyker: 17

[gusty bison]

Nah melee vet got a lot better

[finite imp]

I wanna try weapon specialist

[velvet wraith]

ligma

[gusty bison]

Cos they get 40% toughness on demand

[waxen lark]

This, the uptime on harder difficulties is really high and practically a permanent buff when doing endless-wave objectives

[astral blade]

https://tenor.com/view/meh-goat-baby-goat-goat-sounds-cute-gif-16789568

[mystic belfry]

Even with that melee vet generates less toughness than pre-patch

Between shout and elite toughness on kill

[finite imp]

I don't think I can comprehend your first comment then

[mystic belfry]

So no sorry it really ain't

[worthy escarp]

Feels like it's more then that or maybe a secondary perk, as I'm still taking relatively high damage, I want to say that either the Toughness Damage Reduction x% nodes aren't working or Fatshark™️ has Fat-thumbed™️ something wrong and butchered my toughness.
Even my melee Veteran designed for it so I use Voice of Command and my Plasma Gun or Bolter is squishy as anything

[velvet wraith]

ligma

[opaque crane]

The only thing you really need on vet to not fold like a piece of paper is iron will

[worthy escarp]

Aparently so

[velvet wraith]

good but not the end all be all

[waxen lark]

Post weapons

[mystic belfry]

I need only my faith in the emperor, no talents, and purely grey weapons and curios

[karmic musk]

Time put in at the start of the tree

[opaque crane]

Exactly its too far down the damn tree

[velvet wraith]

was kickback and bull butcher on the oggie

[karmic musk]

But wait we are not Ogryns so nope

[finite imp]

You're playing an ogryn in that one

[calm vine]

if you guys says its good illtry using comp urge... hopefully it procs at least some times with my luck

[mystic belfry]

Please note that with all the vet nerfs kickback was untouched

[astral blade]

https://tenor.com/view/meh-goat-baby-goat-goat-sounds-cute-gif-16789568

[waxen lark]

Fellow kickback enjoyer 🐭 🤝

[gusty bison]

Tbh Iron Will is optional if you have Confirmed Kill

[velvet wraith]

misread

[acoustic wyvern]

Thats a vet alright. A bit chonky but a vet

[finite imp]

Yes

[gusty bison]

Weapons werent touched this patch

[velvet wraith]

yeah and I dropped 658k dmg on my vet my last match whats up

are you blind

[gusty bison]

Except for bugs

[opaque crane]

I didn’t use confirmed kill last patch and I won’t use it with the nerf either

[opaque crane]

I prefer my toughness not getting dropped to danger lever from 1 shooter

At least I can maintain it in melee because it isn’t being drained so quickly

[waxen lark]

Having any bonus toughness at all with Iron Will feels like cheating, it's so good lmao

[mystic belfry]

Okay chief

Weapons weren't touched, you right

[velvet wraith]

sad they reduced min pellet to 12 rip

[zealous wyvern]

any krieg gear ogryn: they do not know i am ogryn

[finite imp]

Also does focus not work as well on repid fire weapons?

Or is it like

[karmic musk]

So what you are saying is VoC should not give bonus Toughness

[opaque crane]

I run 3 stamina curios so I definitely appreciate iron will. The shout does pair beautifully with it too.

[finite imp]

You apply the damage buff to the tagged enemy

[waxen lark]

I'm saying I always use them together 😎

[midnight mortar]

Fatshark: Write that down Bjornson, quick!!

[mystic belfry]

They nerfed fucking grenade gauntlet but not kickback lol

[velvet wraith]

honestly bro voice of command might be BIS rn...

30 sec cool down thats fkn nuts..

[finite imp]

It is

[mystic belfry]

Shout is based

[finite imp]

Being able to just say no actually my toughness is full instantly is nuts

[astral blade]

this aint a "whos weapon is longer" competition

[waxen lark]

It is, bonus toughness is pretty great

[finite imp]

Also it's a panic switch

Also it can save your teammates

[astral blade]

thats already a thing with ogryn and psyker i think

[faint blade]

That's my secret - I always panic

[mystic belfry]

With as many hours as I have on Mercenary Krugar, Vet shout feels right at home

[finite imp]

Silver sun pickups

[velvet wraith]

hmmmmm

[opaque crane]

It’s a team wide buff that doesn’t stop you from killing or performing any tasks.

[lusty estuary]

Shout's got some huge +++'s in a variety of circumstances, I just like the versatility Infiltrate can offer most the time tbh.

[gilded kernel]

can anyone link me to a decent weapons specialist build?

[waxen lark]

Knocks back everything, including monstrosities (but not beast of nergal for some reason)

[lusty estuary]

In more centered teamplay I could see myself using shout more often though.

[waxen lark]

It's SO GOOD