#Cannot get rid of acidity

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

fallen nymph
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I keep getting highly acidic coffee despite everything else seemingly being correct.

  • Machine: Fellow Espresso Series 1, with Classic 9 Bar shot profile
  • Grinder: Kafatek MC4
  • Beans: Saka Gran Bar
  • Basket: LM 14g basket
  • Dose: 18g
  • Ratio 1:2 (with volumetric setting- confirmed with scale)
  • Timing ~30s perfect volume

I do RDT and WDT. I never see any channeling, the shot seems to come down exactly as intended but I can easily smell and test a lot of acidity immediately, making the shot pretty much undrinkable for me. I have tried everything (grind finer, coarser, underdose, overdose, change ratios) but the acidity will not go away and it's driving me crazy. What can I do to fix this? I can post a video of the extraction if helpful.

alpine totem
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What beans are you using?

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If you're really sensitive to acidity, you probably want to start by looking at darker roasts and longer ratios.

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(Also, just to double check, you're definitely sure there's no bitter-sour confusion, and it's acidity that's bothering you, not bitterness?)

fallen nymph
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I use Saka Gran Bar. Coffee used to taste delicious at 1:2 but recently every shot comes out extremely acidic. These beans are slightly older (~2 months, I usually use 2-3 weeks old beans) but I doubt that's enough to drive this much of a change

alpine totem
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What temperature were they stored at?

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When you say extremely acidic, do you mean like lemon or lime juice, or is it maybe another taste, like rancidity?

fallen nymph
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It doesn't taste rancid, it tastes more sour. I'm fairly sure it's not bitter though I'm a newbie.

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Beans are stored in pantry, dark/cool at room temperature in a fellow airtight jar

alpine totem
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Hmm, okay.

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What happens at higher ratios?

fallen nymph
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I have not tried higher ratios, I could give it a shot. Though I like my coffee on the more sirupy end, and it used to taste just perfect at 1:2 before this issue started

alpine totem
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Generally speaking, lower ratios will emphasise acidity and sweetness, while higher ratios will lean less acidic and more bitter, so that's probably worth testing.

worldly creek
alpine totem
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Yeah. Rancidity could perhaps be confused with sour.

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Rancidity is like cooking oil that's gone off, rather than lemon juice.

worldly creek
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Bitterness is already easily confused with sourness. When you add rancid off notes, it adds a sharpness to it.

fallen nymph
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Sounds like my best bet is to buy some fresh coffee and see if that changes anything?

worldly creek
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Yeah, I would recommend that.

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Other things to consider is checking if there's a change in water or if your machine needs a cleaning

fallen nymph
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Machine is super clean, water is distilled water remineralized with TWW

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I just ordered some Saka roasted on 4/21

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Should be 9-10 days old by the time it arrives

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in the past even if coffee went to 5-6 weeks it was still tasting great. I even used some Lavazza super crema that was 3 months old and had 0 acidity. But it's worth ruling this out.

worldly creek
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Sometimes it just happens and other times you get luck

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The unlucky mixture of air exposure, humidity, and temperature

alpine totem
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This may still be rancidity rather than acidity. You're probably more likely to lose acidity with aging beans rather than them suddenly getting more acidic.

fallen nymph
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I forgot to add one detail that makes me skeptical on this- 2 weeks ago I got the Kafatek, and I received with it a bag of caffe lusso that was dated 3/17 (so 3-4 weeks old back then). These beans also suffered the same problem.

worldly creek
fallen nymph
median solstice
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If you wanna salvage the beans could go finer and shorter (1:1) in the same amount of time

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That’s what id try personally

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Haven’t had Saka in a bit though so memory may be fuzzy. I did this on a decaf that’s had a similar roast level and style imo

fallen nymph
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I'm not too worried about salvaging the beans I'm mostly worried about figuring out how to make good coffee again

delicate token
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if it's correlated with the grinder across a couple beans you're probably going to have to dial in again. i'd probably start by playing with the levers that you'd typically use to make things less acidic.

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consider higher temp, longer ratio, finer grind, etc.

18g in a 14g basket is also raising a small flag for me. the mignons generate a lot wider range of coffee sizes (ime) and might be better for packing into a small basket. that's...a lot of coffee in that basket

fallen nymph
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The LM 14g is super spacious (still has a ton of room on top even with 18g, in fact I need to add a puck screen to avoid a really soupy puck)

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And for what it's worth I had the same experience with the stock basket that's 18g

delicate token
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i've used lm baskets and don't like them dosed like that, but i'm also an acid fiend

fallen nymph
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Is it worth trying to dose closer to 14g to see what happens and grinding much finer to match that?

delicate token
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worth trying, there are a lot of options that can all move you in that direction. dosing up to get coarser is a common acid seeking method

fallen nymph
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I will try going down further. So far I've gone from 18 to 16.5 with no change but I will take a more drastic approach and go down to 14

fallen nymph
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I went down to 14g and still zero change. I went from 380um to 280um on the grinder which is much much finer and still the acidity hits immediately at the first sip

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The only thing left to try is to use fresh beans

alpine totem
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Have you tried longer ratios?

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(Like 1:3 or higher?)

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If that doesn't reduce the problem, it's less likely that the problem is acidity specifically, and more likely that it's rancidity (or bitterness, if the problem gets worse at longer ratios).

fallen nymph
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I haven't yet (I prefer shorter ratios) but I will try especially if helpful to diagnose (e.g. if longer ratio brings bitterness and this helps point to the beans)

alpine totem
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Shorter ratios usually bias towards acidity (that's why people tend to do short ratios for dark roasts, to bias the extraction away from bitterness towards sweetness and acidity), so if you generally prefer short ratios, that might also indicate that acidity might not be the problem here?

delicate token
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I would try both directions as an experiment. 1:1 and 1:3. useful diagnostic

fallen nymph
fallen nymph
alpine totem
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I still suspect if the bad note is that ultra strong, it may not be acidity as such. You usually need a fresh light roast and acidity-biased extraction to get an acid bomb like that.

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With a more medium or darker roast, and older beans, you tend to need to go searching to find acidity: off flavours are more likely to be other things.

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Comparison tasting the 1:1 and 1:3 side by side should be a good way to troubleshoot.
If the problem is significantly worse with 1:1 and better with 1:3, that points towards the problem being acidity.
If it's the other way around, that points towards the problem being bitterness.
If they're both about equally bad and harsh, that probably points towards rancidity instead.

delicate token
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There’s a whole subset of drinkers that finds any acidity unpalatable, even in quite dark roasts. I wouldn’t assume light roasts would be required

alpine totem
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Right, but we're talking here about a previously known-good bean that suddenly developed an ultra strong off flavour.

delicate token
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I’m well aware. With a new grinder that is notably more clarity focused

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I think the rancidity hypothesis is fine but just want to be clear that you’re dismissing the taster

alpine totem
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Right, hence the comparison taste.

fallen nymph
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Just tried 1:1 it was absolutely disgusting. Trying 1:3 now

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1:3 is better but a bit bitter

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I still taste some acidity even at 1:3 though a good bit less. It’s still not enjoyable

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I also tried 2.5, acidity shot up, no bitterness

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All of these shots sucked and I would never willingly drink any of them

fallen nymph
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9 hours later I still taste the acidity in my mouth I’m going to not even try to make coffee until fresh beans come in

If fresh beans don’t solve it I’m not sure what to do 😞

median solstice
fallen nymph
median solstice
fallen nymph
median solstice
fallen nymph
fallen nymph
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I found a random bag of other Saka beans unopened in the pantry. Same roast date (Feb 27). This wasn't opened and put in the airtight container as the beans I was using. I made coffee with it and it tasted substantially better. Not amazing, crema was subpar, but acidity was very low compared to the other beans that tasted ultra acidic and salty. It seems like those beans might have just gone rancid as many of you suggested. Not sure how it's possible that they are better in the original bag vs airtight container but it is what it is

sour jewel
fallen nymph
worldly creek
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It can go stale due to lost of CO2 but it's much more difficult to go rancid from oxidization

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After you've open the bag, oxidation is on the table. It's particularly bad with oily beans—such as saka.

fallen nymph
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That makes sense. Never again using the Fellow containers.

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Is freezing advisable? If I get too much coffee can I just throw a bag in the freezer and re-use it a couple weeks later?

worldly creek
quiet streamBOT
worldly creek
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If it's an unopened bag, you can just tape the bag then throw it into the freezer.

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Simply let it reach room temp before opening

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If you want to use coffee directly from the freezer, dose them into small single dose—or weekly dosed if you're lazy and think some degradation is acceptable—air tight containers.

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You can grind directly from frozen.

fallen nymph
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This is super helpful thank you really excited to try! I have a small vacuum sealer, would it make sense to portion some coffee and vacuum seal it or always better to just leave in the unopened bag?

worldly creek