Lvl 75-? Holy Fire Spell Spammer 1.0.6

[white lagoon]

i honestly also didnt see it was a less one, ig redo

[crude rock]

jea

loking lith that and i am not even close to finish having my gear for it stilol have armore in it

like

[white lagoon]

with a lantern of lost ghosts ud also be able to drop ghost shroud which is huge for that build

might honestly transition to this at 100

and make a build in here

[crude rock]

my build is alredy tanky enough and i ahev a other thing in it instead if the latern

[white lagoon]

what u got?

i was just thinking more magic shield for battery basically

written word also looks pretty good as offhand

[crude rock]

jep that one

[woven fox]

Been a dec bit but ye I deff feel at lvl100 int/ms stacking is the most viable tho prob p hard to put into use early on es just scales so much faster and has that support which can easily give 200% dmg later on

Maybe I should try actualy lvling up my char and see if the pivot is just as great as I think (also maybe could drop as much spell spam later on too)

[forest sentinel]

int/ms for pure HF is prob the best, could get with very unoptimes build 20K hits

And you can still build for burn aswell

Just need to figure out sustain, as that is very bad compared to hp regen

[white lagoon]

i think ghost shroud with dodge is the solution for sustain

idk if u can dodge self damage, if u can itd be even better since ud be able to get stacks on urself and keep it up

tho, for int, chieftain bad, so we now must follow the gospel of trickster

With ghost shroud u regen 15/3 magic shield per sec, so 5 magic shield per second. Now just need enough max fire res and lavaspur boots to be doing less dmg to self than that 5% can heal us for

Including if dodge works on self dmg which if it does we should be able to easily upkeep the magic shield

[ripe hedge]

I've been told you can't dodge the self-hit but I'm curious if the regen from Ghost Shrouds is considered healing like Heart of Ice is, to which you could scale it with Harmony for 7.5%/sec, which at 89% max fire res would already out regen the self dmg from HF even without lavaspur.

Since trickster theres also the possibility of going Slippery + Acrobat + Reckless Defender for 83% suppression chance if you can get to 100%, you would reliably half the self dmg. Though it is a lot of points to path to Reckless Defender so not sure how viable/worth that is while still scaling MS as much as possible.

[white lagoon]

acrobat might be too far but reckless is in the path for what we want

[ripe hedge]

For MS/Trickster?

You'd be top right side of the tree what do you mean

Would you not be stacking dodge for ghost shrouds and MS scaling with the trickster node?

I think i'd be quite hard to go netherite bastion with MS HF, if thats what you're thinking, thats partly why i mention suppression since it halves all dmg hits.

[white lagoon]

no no netherite bastion is int with this build

check the talent path i put above

this, tho need to do some changes

[ripe hedge]

Ghast? you're inting

[white lagoon]

yes ik i need to do some changes didnt see the less magic shield part

wait actually ill redo that rn

[ripe hedge]

also steady hand isn't 20% more dmg its just 20% dmg so its not worth pathing to it

and the occasional crit will deal more dmg, than the 20% increase

[kindred tapir]

What about the ascendancy that converts HP regen to MS regen?

[ripe hedge]

nah

[white lagoon]

well with this build i already got -100% less crit with overload

[kindred tapir]

Idk curse pops sound fun lol

[white lagoon]

damage might not be a more but its a double dip mechanic

[kindred tapir]

But then you need curses as your 2ed class

[ripe hedge]

Okay but its still not worth just 20% increase imo

🤷‍♂️

[kindred tapir]

Kinda ass ngl

[ripe hedge]

I was looking at something like this

[kindred tapir]

You cant crit

With that build

[ripe hedge]

Ik

[white lagoon]

basically, with the 20 % and burn, burn dmg should be on a 1k dmg

1k x 120% = 1.2k

1.2k x 120% = 1.44k

[ripe hedge]

its not its own multiplier

[white lagoon]

it should proc on both damage procs independently, its all damage procs, so the fire hit and the burn hit

[ripe hedge]

You get so much % dmg from battery that your points are better spent on defense or more MS

[white lagoon]

u get skill dmg% which is just on the first hit

[kindred tapir]

I think it depends on pathing aince with his tree its alot of points to get and not worth

[white lagoon]

ur right, but idk which is better

[kindred tapir]

But if you start like hammer and path past it then its worth the 1 point imo

[white lagoon]

considering a lot of nodes around the ms ones im missing are a bit bad

[ripe hedge]

I think that partially depends on your other skills but in general thats probably tru

[white lagoon]

btw ya should def not take the ms regen nodes, i think they aint needed at all

[ripe hedge]

Idk i was going to start experimenting with this with a 2nd character i was leveling but tilted because a mauler ate my level 50 hellrack that was carrying me

[white lagoon]

oh wait ur not going ghost?

[ripe hedge]

ghost you mean ghast?

[white lagoon]

or depending on the unique off hand for it

no ghost

[ripe hedge]

I planned to use the offhand

lost soul unique

Or w/e it was called

[white lagoon]

ah i understand what ur thinking

[ripe hedge]

Initial idea for ascendancy as well

[white lagoon]

im thinking a bunch of initial hit damage from battery, heal strength to magic skill damage, and int flat magic skill damage %, then multiplying that with burn proc. Its a slightly different approach

[ripe hedge]

flat dmg is pointless imo

% dmg is pretty pointless too

Scale MS high you get both flat and % dmg

the problem is sustain

[white lagoon]

where u getting the % dmg from?

[ripe hedge]

Not even planning to go burn with this build, honestly don't know how single target would be

[ripe hedge]

battery

[white lagoon]

battery gives flat % skill dmg

[ripe hedge]

flat %
🤔

[white lagoon]

idk how u call it in poe terms

just calling it in warframe terms

[ripe hedge]

its an additive multiplier

increased dmg

[white lagoon]

ye that

[ripe hedge]

so for my more multipliers to really scale the dmg more i'd be elementalist as my 2nd class

[kindred tapir]

Well battery gives flat damage right?

[ripe hedge]

using any fire skill for overheat stacks

[ripe hedge]

no its % dmg

i thought it was flat as well

[kindred tapir]

You sure?

[ripe hedge]

Thats what i've been told.... twice 🙂

[kindred tapir]

Is it just worded like ass?

[ripe hedge]

But ya overheat stacks + magic circle and something else that i don't remember

but most of the dmg is actually just coming from scaling your MS

iirc battery is 1.5% of your MS so at 20k MS you'd have 300% dmg and 11% of MS per HF tick 2200 dmg(double to 4400 for per second), end up with 17600 dmg/sec without literally anything else

Pretty sure you can scale your MS way higher too

[white lagoon]

heal strength is actually transferred to skill damage instead of magic skill damage i was wrong

and ye u can scale ms upwards of 40k

[ripe hedge]

Unless its free i don't see the point

[white lagoon]

whats the magic shield % u get from ur current talent tree

[ripe hedge]

Ig Divinity node is pretty free but 🤷‍♂️ assuming you actually have heal strength

[white lagoon]

cuz i forgot, defender is a must, its 10% more magic shield

[ripe hedge]

I don't think so

too many points

[white lagoon]

u can forgo all the ms regen im pretty sure

[ripe hedge]

Ya i might actually

[white lagoon]

if u can get to the other damage suppression game changer

[ripe hedge]

But really depends

[white lagoon]

its more than worth

[ripe hedge]

Thats the stuff I wasn't sure about so over investing into sustain before actually testing the build

I had level 60 something doing something like this but was doing something completely different

I was doing Arcanist instead of Trickster and getting mana regen with mana battery to augment my sustain.

Which is probably easier early but without a doubt doesn't scale MS as high

[white lagoon]

2 thirds of the middle magic shield wheel would also be useless is ms regen is not needed

[ripe hedge]

also a bit of anti-synergy because the overheat stacks bop your mana regen, so using overheat hurts the sustain

[white lagoon]

ye overheat hurts mana regen, also one of the reasons im meh about elementalist with it

besides the button spam

[ripe hedge]

Assuming you have 100% uptime on ghost shrouds which needs to be tested

[kindred tapir]

I was thinking about this with the heal strength ascendancy. Could be big free damage but idk if you get any defenses

[white lagoon]

u need trickster to convert magic shield to dodge

unfortunately

[ripe hedge]

I'd be using magic shield/dodge gear

[kindred tapir]

Yaya im just thinking about different things you could do

[ripe hedge]

UNLESS, you can reliably dodge going pure MS

[kindred tapir]

Dont think its possible

[white lagoon]

what i was thinking was just doing straight magic shield gear, u need like 8k dodge for max dodge at max lvl

so let me do math

[kindred tapir]

*vs white mobs

If they have extra mods that math may change

[white lagoon]

yeah against anything that doesnt have accuracy modifier

[ripe hedge]

at 20k MS you get 1k flat dodge, the scaling is so bad from trickster

only 5%

[kindred tapir]

I mean 1k flat is not bad

[white lagoon]

at 30k which is a more normal amount for 100 ud get 1.5k, which means ud need dodge from somewhere else as well, some dodge%

[kindred tapir]

But i dont think you can cap it without hybrid gear

[ripe hedge]

Ya but even in my tree where i actually invest a lot i don't get that much % dodge

[white lagoon]

funny urs and mine have basically the same magic shield%

283 on mine

but my dodge% is dog

[ripe hedge]

😛

[white lagoon]

ud get ur dodge to around 4.5k

hmmm what about uniques

[ripe hedge]

I also have Projection bottom right

for 25% more dodge

If the Trickster magic shield leech is bad, which it might be... i would consider changing my ascendancy points to this:

[kindred tapir]

With that % and 20K ms that would be what like 3.5K evade? So like 40something %?

[white lagoon]

holy theres basically 0 dodge uniques and runewords

[kindred tapir]

That is some ROUGH paper math btw

[ripe hedge]

Ya idk how it scales, but the amount of evasion checks out.

[white lagoon]

hmmmmm

oh yeah also gotta test harmony on ghost

[ripe hedge]

With the numbers i have aka almost 300% MS which is 4x base value, and the fact you get 25% of dodge as MS, dodge is basically 1:1 with MS with my tree

So any dodge i get is free MS, sadly tho MS values are just typically higher

[white lagoon]

tho ud get way less ms if ur taking ghast for the 20% dodge as ms

cuz its a 40% less

[ripe hedge]

I'm not taking ghast

[white lagoon]

where u getting the 20% from?

[ripe hedge]

?

25% dodge as ms wdym?

You're thinking ms>dodge

[white lagoon]

ahhhh ye

so wait, isnt pure dodge gear mby better

[ripe hedge]

No hybrid is better because MS values on gear are way higher

You might only want like 1-2 hybrid pieces too

you get get tomes to like 500-700+ MS pretty easily, but iirc totems struggle to even hit 500 dodge

obviously you can't use an offhand because the unique, but its just the one i know the values of the most

When/if i untilt from losing my leveling hellrack, i can get on and test some of this

[white lagoon]

we might be overcomplicating the dodge problem, theres also the augment for it, jewels also give a bunch of dodge%, corrupts can roll a bunch on leather stuff, and infusions can give it, blast protection as well

[ripe hedge]

Probs better to use jewels for max fire resist :X

[white lagoon]

with my current talent tree of 49% with 12% more, ud need 5k dodge

[ripe hedge]

And flat ms regen

[white lagoon]

u can get max fire res from 3 good jewels if u need that

im assuming that we dont need ms regen from the bat basically since i trust 15% should be enough, specially if harmony works on it

[ripe hedge]

I'm not convinced you're going to have the shroud regen up 100%

if harmony doesn't work on it % magic shield regen definitely does

tbh i doubt it does but it should be tested

[white lagoon]

its a matter if ghost shield regen counts as healing

its regeneration so im not sure magic shield regen works on it

[ripe hedge]

🤷‍♂️ Even if it does or not, you still can't guarentee the uptime will be 100%

which is more the issue than scaling it

[white lagoon]

should be in the category of magic shield per sec

[ripe hedge]

I mean Heart of Ice has wording of Magic Shield regen no? I guess the difference is that it has a heal tag

[white lagoon]

library doesnt have ghost shroud status effect

well it "does" but no info

it has tags positive, defense

same as heart of ice flat magic shield? so weird

[ripe hedge]

well you want the heart of ice regen portion

[white lagoon]

the ghost shroud effect on the library also says its a _remove so i dont think it even is the actual ghost shroud

and yea the heart of ice regen portion doesnt even appear in the library

[ripe hedge]

Looking through my tabs and heres another variation i made looks like i was focusing more on resist on this one so frees up gear to be more focused on high MS/Dodge values

fair bit less investment in % defenses

Build feels to gear dependant(armor, ascessories and jewels) to really say which tree is best.

I want this say this tree would be mid investment build where your gear isn't super min/maxed so you need the extra resist help

[kindred tapir]

I mean the whole MS version feels much more gear/level reliant

[ripe hedge]

ya not having a good source of sustain is rough

[kindred tapir]

So i would assume if you were theroy crsfting it id do it for min max end game

[ripe hedge]

ya i think first tree is better then

every jewel having cracked resist + ms regen, as well as any extra capacity you might need to squeeze another augment

Has anyone done a super AoE version?

tested some AoE trees out, only managed to get ~100% AoE which is probably already overinvesting but is a good enough skeleton with plenty of points to spare

Definitely not possible as MS tho

[kindred tapir]

Aoe is a nice qol imo

Also kinda counts as a defensive layer

[ripe hedge]

Wait... what is this tree i made? lmfao
https://cofeiini.github.io/cte2-planner/?preset=eyJ2ZXJzaW9uIjoiMS4wLjciLCJsZXZlbCI6IjEwMCIsInN0YXJ0Ijo4NTY3LCJ0YWxlbnRzIjpbMTAwODksMTAxMjIsMTAxNTksMTAyOTcsMTA2MTAsMTA2NzYsMTEwMTgsMTEwMjAsMTExMjksMTExOTUsMTEzNjYsMTE2NDgsMTE3MTQsMTIxNjcsMTIyMzMsMTI1ODUsMTI1ODcsMTI2ODYsMTI3NTIsMTI5MzEsMTI5MzMsMTMyMDMsMTMyMDYsMTMyNzMsMTMyODksMTMzODEsMTM0NTAsMTM0NTIsMTM0NTQsMTM2MzcsMTM3OTgsMTQ0MTIsMTQ2NjIsMTQ2NjUsMTQ3NjAsMTQ4MzAsMTQ5NTQsMTUyNzQsMTUyODQsMTUyODcsMTUzMDIsMTU0NDQsMTU4MTgsMTU4MjEsMTU5NzUsMTYxNTQsMTYzMzMsMTY0OTgsMTY2NzMsMTY4NTcsMTcxOTMsMTcyMDIsMTc1NDksMTc3MTcsMTc4OTcsNDI3Nyw0ODA1LDQ5NzUsNTg0NSw2MTY5LDY0OTksNjUwMSw2ODg2LDY5ODcsNzAxNiw3MDI5LDcxNTgsNzE2Miw3MTg3LDcxOTMsNzIwNSw3MzI1LDczNjksNzM3Niw3NTEwLDc1MzEsNzY4Nyw3NzEyLDc3MTQsNzcxNyw3NzIxLDc4NTgsNzg2NSw3ODc3LDc4OTIsNzkyNiw4MDIzLDgwNTcsODA5NCw4MTAxLDgxNzgsODIwMiw4MjA5LDgyMjIsODIzMyw4MjQwLDgyNjQsODM1NCw4MzcwLDg1MzIsODUzNSw4NTM4LDg1NDUsODU4MSw4NTg5LDg3MzEsODc0NCw4NzQ2LDg3NDksODg4Myw4OTM0LDg5NjQsOTA4OSw5MDkxLDkxMjYsOTEyOCw5MjUyLDkyNTksOTI2Niw5Mjc4LDk0MzAsOTQzNCw5NDcxLDk3NzUsOTc4MV0sImFzY2VuZGFuY3kiOnsic2VsZWN0aW9uIjoidHJpY2tzdGVyX2NsYXNzIiwidGFsZW50cyI6W119fQ%3D%3D

MS HF build with Suppression looks like

Here is AoE skeleton, looks like i was playing around with the idea of something that did physical dmg and block as well... I don't think i had any plans just messing with different pathing to try to find a build. But 126% AoE with 55 remaining points. If you drop all the block/phys dmg stuff thats not needed you have 71 remaning points.

Could maybe find some use in a HF build built to farm lower tier maps as fast as possible

[white lagoon]

ok lemme do the math on the dodge flat ud need with my build for max

33% dodge rating frm mythic
43.36% dodge from tree
28 dex 2.2% dodge

= 78.56%

12% more dodge from Slippery

8k-178.56%
x-100%

= 4.480k

4.480-112%
x-100%

= 4k flat waw

lemme do the inverse, to know how much dodge rating is needed if we have 1.5k dodge flat

1.5k - 100%
x - 112%

= 1.680k

1.680k - 100%
8k - x

= 476.19%

not great, too much

lets say we can get to 3k flat then

238%

if we get ms to 40k it gives us 2k flat, tho to get to 40k is a bit meh, lemme see

my current tree has 75% more magic shield and 283.295% magic shield, doing the math it gives

40k - 175%, x - 100%, x = 22.875k
22.875 - 1 + 283.295%, x - 100, x = 5.963k

lemme do the math with urs

oh urs is basically the same

just different dmg prios sorta

towering physique chest also gives a 15% more magic shield,

[white lagoon]

also with this hybrid is always better than straight magic shield

[ripe hedge]

I don't think thats particularly true

If you have to choose between 100 dodge or 100 ms, obviously 100 dodge is better since you get the extra ms, BUT dodge values on gear are much lower than MS values. Thats why i say you probably only want like 1-2 hybrid armor pieces.

So if you're really trying to squeeze every last bit of MS to min/max your dps, its better for pure MS, the dodge is really just to facilitate your regen(it is a decent defensive layer but talking about min/maxing dmg) and so as long as you have enough to sustain HF you don't need more.

[white lagoon]

its always more if ur hybrid i think, 262 157 for example vs 338

so 419 vs 338

with vest vs cloth

[ripe hedge]

Thats scaling from the base flat defense values chests give?

[white lagoon]

its the flat from runic pants, lvl 87 vs 88 cuz i dont rly have another example closer to 100

max from each is 276 165 and 372 so 441 vs 372

the bad part of scrapping everything ig

[ripe hedge]

Ya i didn't want to get into the nitty gritty of doing manual calculations because it gets muddy quick

[white lagoon]

with gear defence added u can get some rly good stats

[ripe hedge]

Should have at least calculated from base level 100 armor pieces to see how good hybrid vs pure compares

[ripe hedge]

Ya i haven't crafted any hybrid bases yet, but i did craft pure MS gear and those values get pretty big ngl

like i made this 😛

imagine if i had perfect prefixes and that health was even more gear defense

[white lagoon]

yeah it can get huge, with hybrid u can get around the same i think

if that health was more gear defence itd go to like 1k alone XD

[ripe hedge]

ya

Btw that has no quality either

[white lagoon]

with perfect roll mythics i wouldnt be surprised if we could get to 50-60k ms, gear defence prefix with inteligence suffixes

[ripe hedge]

eww

ima throw up

too gross 😄

[white lagoon]

hey, jewels can get us to max resistances trust

[ripe hedge]

Ik they can like what? up to 4% per jewel?

[white lagoon]

more like 15% for stat with mythic rolls

[ripe hedge]

oh i thought you meant max res to cap

[white lagoon]

ah yeah max res u can get upwards of 4.3 or smthing

[ripe hedge]

the runed crafted jewels can roll super high resist modifiers

was like 15-20% per modifier

If something like that exists for all elemental/chaos would be big

[white lagoon]

oh yeah those are like a full nother gear piece

[ripe hedge]

got one with 4% crit and some % crit dmg gross af

[white lagoon]

regarding the gear itself, us both would have a bit different builds cuz im trying to take advantage of heal strength for skill dmg as well cuz i want to stack int. What uniques u think are good?

[ripe hedge]

not much honestly

Apart from Lantern of lost souls which feels necessary for regen at higher MS values its all pretty niche options stuff that Mythics would just be better for min/maxing MS

Carcass Jack/Towering Physique for chest
+2 jewel Bubonic Trail is a stretch but depends on the jewels, giving up a good rolled mythic or lavaspur runeword would suck tho.
Unseen Eye maybe if needed for augment capacity? but Thread of Hope is probably better.

Other than that i think most other are beyond niche to be worth mentioning

Imo heal strength is just a bait though so didn't even consider those maybe theres some uniques good for that though but 🤷‍♂️

[pure wharf]

Hi, I am brawler-rogue lvl56, and I am not liking it. Do you guys recommend this build?

[white lagoon]

idk heal strength is giving me 93 skill dmg already without gear and only 100 int, with more int and stuff it might be very good

[white lagoon]

ask in build discussion for some help

[pure wharf]

And why there are 1200 comments in this post hahahah

[pure wharf]

Mb

[white lagoon]

dw bout it, bunch of people there that can help ya

[ripe hedge]

nbd and its cause theres a lot of discussion about figuring out how to build the skill

[woven fox]

This is the Holy fire cult duh

[white lagoon]

shhhh u cant let people know that!

[ripe hedge]

Still don't see it... battery is going to give you tons of %, i'd rather invest in min/maxing MS to increase both base dmg AND % dmg

You're working against diminishing returns by only scaling % with your heal strength

mind you heal strength does not affect regen, im sure you know this but just making sure you do 🙂

[white lagoon]

ye tho i want to do funny numbers with int

[woven fox]

Actualy I wonder if it affects es regen from that one notable

[ripe hedge]

ghost shroud? ya idk

i mentioned it because of being uncertain about it

that being said im like 80% sure it doesn't

that 20% of doubt is because Heart of Ice MS regen effect says regen, though i do understand this has a heal tag Actually it doesn't say regen, it says restores

[white lagoon]

also ye i do know that dw, although, i am going crusader minstrel, but im not going any heal skills

[ripe hedge]

thats fair, obviously you do you, but im quite certain thats suboptimal

[white lagoon]

ik that elementalist is much better, but funny heal strength

oh for sure

like, 100% elementalist overheat is broken

BUT funny numbers

[ripe hedge]

you could try going crit instead

seems better imo

go battery + crit chance support, could stat int for heal strength + crit damage scaling

[woven fox]

Imo crit is deff better on the es side irc there’s quite a bit of crit related things there too

[pure wharf]

I think I'm going to join, should I know something more that it is not in the main post?

[ripe hedge]

I personally think crit would be gernally too much investment but for what hes doing crit seems to synergize better

[woven fox]

If you do follow the build religiously know it’s not been updated with info I know now but in general it’s a good base

[ripe hedge]

idk theres a lot of different approaches to scaling HF most seem to stick with Chieftain scaling health and burn

Is hybrid even that much better than pure Health?

[woven fox]

And easiest thing to make it playable fast is just gathering regen gear early on and focusing on resistance later

[ripe hedge]

as long as fire resist itself is capped

other resists can wait

[woven fox]

Early on hybrid can allow u to tank every chapter with nearly 0 deaths

[ripe hedge]

feel like you could do the same with pure health 🤷‍♂️

[woven fox]

Ye deff but it’s p much double padding

[ripe hedge]

more investment tho so less early game

[woven fox]

Plus it’s v easy to get phys res on tome so may as well not miss it too

Imo it’s just more gear avalibility

[white lagoon]

ok so

[ripe hedge]

tbh lavaspur + fire barrier + netherite bastion is more than enough early phys mitigation without needing armor

[white lagoon]

trickster talent to convert dodge into ms might be bugged

:D

[woven fox]

Plus u still focus hp regen on tree just es is transformed into hp regen at lower rate

[ripe hedge]

not bugged but doesn't loop

[woven fox]

Ye lmao sadly no poe2 brokenness

[white lagoon]

no it literally doesnt work, doesnt appear in mns list stat values. Doesnt convert at all

literally 0

nada

[ripe hedge]

its not conversion its extra somewhere towards the end of the calculations

[white lagoon]

well, its still not there at all tho

[ripe hedge]

well what are you doing?

[white lagoon]

also somehow u can get ghost shroud to proc on self hits

i got 3 hybrid mythic pieces on me

and yeah, theres nothing in the /mns list sttat values regardin converting dodge to magic shield

[ripe hedge]

hmm you can dodge self hits?

i never actually tested, but i was told you couldn't multiple times

figured if it did work then thats just a bonus and not to focus on it unless it it was 100% reliable

[woven fox]

From my early super hybrid of 3 armor type testing no self hit dodge

[white lagoon]

no its weird

it procs but doesnt? shows the visual but doesnt work?

[ripe hedge]

relaunch? idk

even the stats not showing is weird ngl

[white lagoon]

idk if this is it

but the talent that procs bleeds

and other stuff

and u can dodge bleeds

so that procs it

tho the dodge to ms still doesnt work after relogging

[forest sentinel]

What unqiues has % aoe?

Not currently ingame if some one can check

[ripe hedge]

Carcass Jack is the main one that comes to mind

[forest sentinel]

ty ty

hmm

Is that Increased % of the total Aoe you have, or flat % to your aoe?

@ripe hedge

[white lagoon]

btw the dodge to be at max dodge might be lower than i thought

which is odd lemme see if i can find the msg with the number

odd

it does say 8k, well im at 2.5k with 54% dodge

[ripe hedge]

not "flat %" again :X
that aoe is just the % aoe with the skill tree

when i hear flat % i think of additions to base crit chance or resistance

[forest sentinel]

?, Question was more so, does it increase the already aoe I have by a % or add to it

[woven fox]

Ye it’s a logarithmic decrease as u get higher tho idk if armor is same as poe and its calc for armor

[ripe hedge]

Afaik theres no sources of base radius or separate multipliers to aoe, so all AoE will add together to multiply the base radius of the skill

[forest sentinel]

GOod

All I needed

[ripe hedge]

Its likely something like Dodge Chance = 1 - X / ( X + DodgeRating )

Wouldn't be all that hard to figure out the formula.

[woven fox]

I could sorta guess for dodge but idk how armor reduces dmg

[ripe hedge]

same thing

Its pretty versatile ngl

[woven fox]

Ye it deff seems armor is in general much better compared to to Poe at least

[ripe hedge]

the missing part of the formula for dodge is accuracy matters right?

[woven fox]

Last time I touched acc was during closed beta so idk how mobs would interact with that

Deff sounds like a thing tho

[ripe hedge]

me either but it somehow matters, if you can give me phys mitigation or dodge chance with 2 different armor or dodge rating values i could probs give a rough estimate of the formula

[woven fox]

Not at pc so gotta bother someone else lmao

[ripe hedge]

nbd

[white lagoon]

why tf is the ascendancy not working

i dont understanderino

[ripe hedge]

weird was generating some uniques in creative and i have mismatched unique ring/amulet/weapon items that are armors. And yes they do equip to the specific armor slot and not the unique type they are supposed to be

[white lagoon]

ok the build i got is fuckin hilarious

it doesnt do much dmg for now cuz trickster bug so i gotta remake my mythics

and i need differnt boots

but holy shit is it funny, i already know what im gonna name it as when i make the character build

"My microwave can play jingles"

with 9k magic shield cuz i got destroyed by trickster, im doing 25k dps

[ripe hedge]

what level?

[white lagoon]

https://tenor.com/view/champoy-el-risitas-kek-issou-etu-gif-17837830

lvl 100

[ripe hedge]

trickster ain't going to fix that

[white lagoon]

for one single ability doing dps

battery will, TRUST

[ripe hedge]

thought you were using it

[white lagoon]

i am but i only have 9k ms cuz yeah, gotta remake gear

[ripe hedge]

???????

Builds cooked

[white lagoon]

so trickster dodge to magic shield is bugged, it isnt working, so i got less than half the ms i should have cuz i also need better boots

basically

[ripe hedge]

i was doing 25k dps with 6.5k ES on Arcanist at level 60

[white lagoon]

ah elementalist is just better of course cuz overheat is a more multiplier

[ripe hedge]

magic circle too

[white lagoon]

yeah that too

i should be able to get this one to like 75k 100k dps

once i fix my shi

[ripe hedge]

thats still pretty bad no? bosses in rare maps at 100 have like 4m hp, mythic maps would be like 8-20m depending on mods... I guess it depends how patient you feel like being but that still sounds pretty bad

[white lagoon]

btw u were super right, magic regen is needed

[ripe hedge]

ya i figured

[white lagoon]

yeah u aint wrong, but im patient, and its a funny build

[ripe hedge]

Clear would be "fine"

[kindred tapir]

Thats not too bad for a afk build imo

[ripe hedge]

If you actually want to make minstrel heal strength stacking work you would lean into crit with hard int scaling

[ripe hedge]

hes not, hes pushing a lot of buttons

[kindred tapir]

Thats ass LOL

[ripe hedge]

Its minstrel after all, you get access to a lot of buffs but gotta push a lot of buttons to keep them active

[kindred tapir]

Is he doing like heal damage conversation thing?

Cus why else minstrel?

[ripe hedge]

idk but he wants to scale heal strength so i assume thats the case

[kindred tapir]

I mean it seems good on paper, especially if you have the bard ascendancy (idfk the name lol) cus you get like 150% heal strength conversation

[ripe hedge]

its poop tho

because battery gives you tons of % dmg already

[kindred tapir]

You could have both though no?

Like stack MS and take heal strength

[white lagoon]

yeah gotta press 5 buttons every 8 secs more or less

[kindred tapir]

Thats giga ass

[ripe hedge]

so ofc you get another large chunk of % dmg but since they would be additive with each other you end up with diminishing returns

[kindred tapir]

Too meny buttons for me lol

[white lagoon]

yes but its funny

[white lagoon]

ok so ur saying lean into crit?

move over to that from burn?

[kindred tapir]

I mean they get a crit buff no?

[kindred tapir]

I think burn = more damage then crit now that I've played the mage version

Or should i say less investment into burn give much more then crit

[white lagoon]

it aint that big, besides id have to give up on both overload and steady hand

[ripe hedge]

If i was going to go minstrel you get access to % increased crit chance buff, and you get even more value out of your int

[white lagoon]

hmmmm

ait lemme then make my talent tree in cte2 planner. mby easier to help that way

[ripe hedge]

crit is a separate multiplicative multiplier so its a lot better than heal strength but in this case you can go both since you scale them both with int

[kindred tapir]

But heal strength is easier to spec into technically

Crit is like high investment high reward imo

Heal strength and burn damage are low investment mid return

[ripe hedge]

ofc, but hes 100 and should be looking for high investment ngl

[kindred tapir]

True true

[ripe hedge]

heal strength is good if you don't have a lot of % increases or you are working with a lot of different damage types and need generic increased damage

Also don't even know if trickster is still the play going that route

[kindred tapir]

Trickster (from what ive seen, no in game tests) is only good if 100% DS

I mean especially if the evade to MS thing is bugged like someone said

[ripe hedge]

Theres definitely some other use cases imo

like theres VERY little access to magic hits leech to magic shield, iirc only 2 sources

[kindred tapir]

I do remember that being a problem

[ripe hedge]

the area damage node is also VERY good

[white lagoon]

https://cofeiini.github.io/cte2-planner/?preset=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%3D%3D

[kindred tapir]

Its like 15% more ya?

[white lagoon]

im missing 8 talent points so ye

from quests

still gotta do the epilogue stuff after ascendancy

[ripe hedge]

15% more dmg 20% area and 15% area skill cooldown super fat

depends on the skill though

as HF for example doesn't benefit from the cooldown

[kindred tapir]

Ye just area and more damage

Not bad for sure

[white lagoon]

forgot 2 talent points on a jewel slot now its correct

[ripe hedge]

tree is stretch so thin :X

lemme try to make something

[white lagoon]

wall of china

im gonna build a wall around the talent tree

tmr ill get the missing talent points first thing cuz yeah, rly need em ngl, id have 13 free points to invest in crit plus some

[kindred tapir]

This set of burn nodes is really strong btw

[ripe hedge]

burn is bad if going crit

[kindred tapir]

Hes not going crit on this build

hes taking other burn nodes lol

[white lagoon]

uh id have to drop divinity, i still get 50% hs as skill damage ig tho meh

[ripe hedge]

his last tree he sent was an attempt to go crit

[white lagoon]

no no it is my current tree

[kindred tapir]

there are burn nodes taken on the tree

[ripe hedge]

o

nvm i misinterpreted then

[kindred tapir]

But these 2 nodes are 25% more total damage per burn

[white lagoon]

dw bout it

[kindred tapir]

Big

[white lagoon]

Id be dropping a bunch, overload, steady hand, and divinity which rn is 50% skill dmg for the crit, that why i need some help cuz if i do it myself i think itll be way worse than current build XD

[tiny scaffold]

how does the build work before level 55?

[white lagoon]

Disclaimer : dont follow my build its shit, unless if its for the fun of it and ur a masochist

[ripe hedge]

well you can only really start the build at 30, but you'd likely be pure health, not sure you could really pull this off as MS unless you toggle between prayer and HF

[kindred tapir]

100% Pure health well leveling is the way

[ripe hedge]

tbh i wouldn't level with it but thats just my advice

[kindred tapir]

It not that bad to level with I cant lie

Its how I leveled and just due to the shear tank stats its not bad

[white lagoon]

Its brain off but takes a while more than meta builds

[ripe hedge]

Agreed its not that bad but its just slower compared to other options

extra things to keep in check, fire res always maxed, always having enough regen as your max health increases, chieftain helps a lot here since you get 2% of max health regen so its somewhat proportional

[kindred tapir]

Fire res is big but cheif makes that much easier to handle

and the regen thing is just always prio regen over HP imo

[ripe hedge]

if you sustain get more hp, if you don't get more regen

[forest sentinel]

level as pure health, transition into MS at 80+

[kindred tapir]

something like this is how I would build early

Prio left side first then path up to the top right circle

Then just path to fire damage, ele damage, Max HP, Regen, etc, etc

[ripe hedge]

Personally i would recommend AoE early as well, and only specing out when you need to min/max dps as mobs get tankier, big qol imo

even just like ~30% helps a lot

[kindred tapir]

Ya early AOE is nice for sure, there is one node near hammer that is easy to get for 15%

[ripe hedge]

This tree is pretty tough was planning to swap trickster for ascendant, but then idk where your regen comes from if not purely from flat MS regen on gear.

[forest sentinel]

aug regen can roll quite high

[kindred tapir]

I mean it would need to be flat MS from gear

and aug ya

[ripe hedge]

thats not nearly enough above 5k MS

[white lagoon]

Yeah that probs wouldnt work tho once i get to higher magic shield

[forest sentinel]

Course not

But it helps

Can roll like 200 or something from just one'

[ripe hedge]

Ya some of the flat ms regen modifiers get pretty good on gear but its a pretty rare mod

[tiny scaffold]

what should i change

[forest sentinel]

?_?, wrong chat my guy

[ripe hedge]

nah he wants to go HF

[forest sentinel]

oh

[kindred tapir]

Na he wants to swap to HF

[tiny scaffold]

oh well, its related to the build

[forest sentinel]

Full reset lmao

[kindred tapir]

Uh one sec

[tiny scaffold]

oh yea elementalist

[ripe hedge]

elementalist only if MS

[tiny scaffold]

MS?

[forest sentinel]

Magic shield stacking

[ripe hedge]

Magic shield

[tiny scaffold]

ahhh

yea im in heavy armor

[ripe hedge]

If only health stacking then Crusader/Fighter is the 0 brain option

[kindred tapir]

Ya you want fighter

[ripe hedge]

a lot of access to early easy power

[white lagoon]

If u find a solution to my build send a ping. Im gonna go rest a bit then head to bed

[kindred tapir]

I would change your tree to this

Make sure all stat points are in STR and as for skills you want to use

[ripe hedge]

Ya toying with the tree still but might have to take a break i was trying to test some botania things in creative but been yapping about HF instead

[kindred tapir]

(One sec opening to get all the skill names )

[ripe hedge]

I do know that you'd likely go Bonesnap or Divinarius as weapon if there isn't some goated runeword

damn nightstorm is so good if it also had more fire dmg (no good runewords then)

[kindred tapir]

OK

So skills you want are, Holyfire, Shred, Charge, Flame Strike, Stance, Safeguard and Protection @tiny scaffold

Prio leveling Holyfire, Protection and Shred

Charge and flame strike dont need to be leveled till last

[ripe hedge]

safeguard being only 4 points i'd prio that too as its % health

[kindred tapir]

Care for that though since you want to make sure you dont have too much health for your regen early on

[ripe hedge]

Fair, but health regen is ez 🙂

[kindred tapir]

Tis true just something to watch out for lol

[tiny scaffold]

does protection protect you?

[kindred tapir]

Yes

[tiny scaffold]

oh sick

[kindred tapir]

It gives you armor and res

the big thing is res to MAKE SURE your fire res is capped

[ripe hedge]

Most people wouldn't recommend this BUT i would say you can get 1 point into prayer if you are really struggling on sustain or want an oh shit button.

[kindred tapir]

Also with this build you go chieftain as you ascendency so that all res double dips for cold and lighting res

Prayer is a aura though

[ripe hedge]

im aware.

Like i said if you have sustain issues you can turn it on for a couple seconds and swap back, or if you find yourself in a bad situation and need to turn off the self dmg and have extra regen to survive.

[kindred tapir]

I could see that, personally I would not take it but I can see the vision

[ripe hedge]

Depends if you got hotkeys for it tbh 😛

for 1 point is a good safety net

[kindred tapir]

I was gonna talk about that since as fighter secondary you have 2 normal options in Reckoner's Flail and or Holy Shield Throw depending on if you want more damage or utility

[ripe hedge]

You wouldn't need it later when your sustain is top notch tho, and you fill your skill hotbar out with other skills.

[kindred tapir]

But you could take prayer really early on instead

[ripe hedge]

I had to use prayer for early levels on MS HF, wouldn't not recommend early MS HF tho

its a lot of buttons, too many for a build thats supposed to be quite passive lol

I want to theorycraft a faux HF build 🙂

[kindred tapir]

I wish changing chars was less tedious

[tiny scaffold]

how do i survive if my hp is being leeched?

[forest sentinel]

faux?

[kindred tapir]

You mean by HF?

[tiny scaffold]

is there a component im missing?

[forest sentinel]

?

[tiny scaffold]

ye

[kindred tapir]

Regen

[forest sentinel]

Hp regen

And fire resist

[ripe hedge]

fake HF aka Holy Spark

[kindred tapir]

You need to make sure your Regen is 2x the amount of damage HF is dealing to you

[forest sentinel]

ahhhhhhhhhhh

[ripe hedge]

They should make it scale with max mana instead of weapon damage ot make it interesting

[kindred tapir]

It has a cap though right?

[ripe hedge]

steam cloud is better weapon damage thing like that

[ripe hedge]

what does?

[tiny scaffold]

i inly have 192, maybe my armor needs to be better

[kindred tapir]

The lightning HF

[tiny scaffold]

it is 15 levels behind

[ripe hedge]

what cap are we talking about tho?

[kindred tapir]

Make sure you set your tree like the one I sent and make sure you look for health regen rolls on gear

[ripe hedge]

should talk about it in #character-build-discussion probs the concept is very different

[kindred tapir]

Also Health Regen Aug can give you a really good boost in health regen and highly recommended

[tiny scaffold]

might need to focus on my armor

[kindred tapir]

If you are early levels crafting gear is not a bad idea

I mean tbh crafting gear at any level is not a bad idea

but early its fairly easy (Maybe outside of the stones)

[tiny scaffold]

i havent found plate armor for pretty much the entire game

[kindred tapir]

Def recommend crafting lol

[tiny scaffold]

what base armor do you reccomend?

[kindred tapir]

Armor

Pure STR

[tiny scaffold]

right, but does the base armor i give a soul to matter?

or is it cosmetic at thata point?

[kindred tapir]

Nope just gives more durability

[tiny scaffold]

i see

[ripe hedge]

it does matter, but not really

[tiny scaffold]

so iron armor should do

[kindred tapir]

Meh

I mean SOME late game armor gives minor set buffs

but 99% of the time iron is fine

[ripe hedge]

You get a bit of boost from the base stats, plus any unique effects the base armor gives, like if you have full terrasteel you get the mana regen. It is miniscule in most cases but definitely some good use cases here and there.

I personally like using the swiftness masks from the undergarden for some extra movespeed

[woven fox]

Maybe I should put a pause on my tfg and p3r playthru and cont build sheet / add the early game guide lmao

[kindred tapir]

So I just slapped together a build, Made some rare iron armor that only gives fire res no regen and am able to sustain HF in combat and survive for a fairly long time outside of combat so its def possible to play at level 35

[ripe hedge]

Nah let 'em struggle

good for character

memeing ofc

[woven fox]

Tbh it sorta feels like we have flushed out the hp scale ver of this build so imo (at least from my own char I feel confident at least updating it to lvl55-75+

Maybe time to resub to discord and expand that text limit too lmao

[ripe hedge]

xd

That pesky text limit gets me all the time

[woven fox]

Tbh sorta wished I posted 5 times instead of just reserving 3 but meh

[ripe hedge]

Just make a new post add link to new one GGEZ

[woven fox]

All ik is I wanna post main spell spam ver / early game and post / variations under testing

Lmao maybe

Still i sorta wanna keep it in one place maybe just link to lower area

[ripe hedge]

I mean... Ask mods to close this thread to force everyone to the new one?

should still be viewable

[woven fox]

Maybe we make a new “holy book” for each variant of the build and expand our cult holy fire faith (who wants to be the new messiah?)

[river helm]

hey late and totaly off topic but what is that armor set you are wearing?

[woven fox]

If ur talking about transmog I was wearing one of the ones found in the official server nearly the hidden casino along with a rgb dragon skull

[river helm]

the ones found in the official server?

[woven fox]

And if ur talking bout atual armor as I played thru I only foucused at the time anything with es or hp regen (hp being more important ) and ofc anything that could max my resistances

[river helm]

so not optainable like outside of the server?

no just looks wise

[woven fox]

U can get same cosmetics but idk what uniques they are connected to / could spawn in ur world but idk how

[river helm]

ohh so they are not craftable just random drops or smtn

[kindred tapir]

Tmog in this modpack is kinda bad ngl

[woven fox]

That’s if they are connected to uniques which I’m not sure yet

[kindred tapir]

They could def take a page from valut hunters in the regard

[woven fox]

Maybe we steal from Vaulthunters lmao

lol

[kindred tapir]

https://tenor.com/view/twins-twinsies-man-spiderman-spider-gif-10514073451626580881

[river helm]

sorry whats tmog

[kindred tapir]

Its short for transmog aka changing outfits to look like something else

[river helm]

ahhh yea

so if its a full set of uniqe armor its safe to asume its unobtainable or

hard

[woven fox]

The closest u can get with reg armor is prob dark set

Tho u need to get to bright to get all pieces

[river helm]

darkmetal you mean?

[woven fox]

Ye

[river helm]

ahh yea im wearing something i like compared to all the craftable armor but that set looks

amazing

and i want it

[woven fox]

lol imo it’s the best transmog I’ve made but rgb skull is also v sick

[river helm]

is there a way to view the transmogs in like creative mode

[kindred tapir]

I mean spawn in the armor no?

[woven fox]

Would deff ask mods how to

Plus I p sure server owners wouldn’t mind adding em

[river helm]

yea im just playing with a small group of friends and my sidequest has been finding the drip

[river helm]

can you? or like with commands?

[woven fox]

Maybe I would recc u go onto official server and look around for the hidden chests as well

[kindred tapir]

I would think it would just be in the creative armor menu

[river helm]

i thought so but no nothing like that is there

[woven fox]

Oh Neato didn’t think they were in there

[river helm]

oh wow

[river helm]

yea i found em

[kindred tapir]

You can get anything in creative lol (or mostly anyway)

[river helm]

thank you

[woven fox]

Tho I think there are still some (at least on official that use leather as base)

[river helm]

i will try to convince the owner to let me use it

[woven fox]

(Tell him there’s a lotta diff drip)

[kindred tapir]

Hopefully since its just Tmog anyway

[woven fox]

Plus armor bases barely do anything other than dura

[kindred tapir]

IMO you would just have it in your cosmetic armor slots lol

[river helm]

yea we realized that chocodisguise might just be the best armor

unless the starts or effect work

[woven fox]

There are good ones but those are ethier sorta meh or harder to get

[river helm]

like what tho

[woven fox]

Irc aquamarine has tiara set and there a a few with fire resistance or wither resistance

Ik there are also masks that give effects but they are super low dura and some effects idk if they even effect m&s

[river helm]

yea i have a tungsten set that dous nothing to fire or wither so

[woven fox]

Tbh other than speed effect most other things I haven’t bothered with

[river helm]

what armor gives speed?

[woven fox]

I haven’t searched much but I’m p sure u could get it from the grab bags from aquamarie loot bags ik they can roll some rando stats on them

Main thing that’s worth farming tho is deff bright speed arc to rare

[white lagoon]

I shall write the chapter about minstrell crusader, once its better cuz rn its a bit too shi

[dawn geode]

Hello, I'm starting out with mods, I don't know anything about it, so I wanted to build it myself because I had something similar on PoE, but the spell hurts a lot and I get one-shotted. I'm level 31, do I need to do anything extra?

[forest sentinel]

What?

Hello, I'm starting out with mods

What do you mean?

[dawn geode]

Craft of Exile 2 ?

It's not a mods ?

[forest sentinel]

Ah, you meant you are new to this modpack

[dawn geode]

Yes

[forest sentinel]

You do exactly the same as in PoE as you do here

[dawn geode]

For now Holy Fire killing me in 2s xD so i think i did something wrong

[forest sentinel]

If you have played it in PoE, no way you wouldnt know what to do xD

Scale fire res, scale hp regen

Pretty simple

[dawn geode]

Yes i think i'm too low in hp regen and fire res didn't get Ascen

[forest sentinel]

Dont need ascend, it's straight up just like PoE, hell in poe you can pick the skill up at lvl 14 I think in act 2

Already at that point you can sustain it with ruby riings

[dawn geode]

Ok thanks i will try to get some

[white lagoon]

https://cofeiini.github.io/cte2-planner/?preset=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

@ripe hedge from burn to crit, u think this better?

theres a +10 intelligence node i REALLY want but i got no idea how to get it

actually nvm i do im gonna update the link

i dont need augment capacity if im only getting a +13

[white lagoon]

with a bonesnapper 50k dps

and i think divinarius is slightly slightly better

with a little bit more crit chance tho divinarius is def better

[white lagoon]

my problem rn is sustaining myself, im doing too much self dmg for current magic regen

its mostly cuz i dont have enough max fire res

im at 80%, id halve the dmg im taking with more

[forest sentinel]

yup

Correct

[white lagoon]

welp bandaid solution, i got one very bad ring lets reroll that shi

[white lagoon]

ok 60k dps and i can barely keep it up but im hoping in combat ghost shroud saves me

[white lagoon]

ok so lavaspur boots might be straight up int

and unneeded

[forest sentinel]

hmm?

[forest sentinel]

What makes you say that?

[white lagoon]

actually ig for elementalist itd be needed, not as many dmg reduction sources, nvm me

it gives up too many stats imo

vs a good roll mythic its just not good enough

also, dodge rating is really bad for the ms build unless if ur going some hybrid pieces cuz the trickery talent from ascendancy doesnt scale with dodge rating, so its basically utterly useless

[white lagoon]

ok we officially up to 80k dps

im hitting 51k crits

[kindred tapir]

I would not go that far. POE you can only start it that early becuase of the overcap fire res to life regen

Also gearing can be kinda RNG to cap fire res (not hard just rng) but I did test it and can say at level 35 you can sustain and run HF

[forest sentinel]

True, kinda wish we got some more options on the talent tree, having literally 0 res on the tree feels slightly scuffed

Hell, we barelly have fire nodes

[kindred tapir]

Ya I dont mind so much about the res since there is some but def a lack of like single damage type options (Phys, Fire, Cold, Lightning, etc, etc)

[forest sentinel]

Some? there are 2 nodes that impact fire res on the entier tree

1 node for +1 max, and one node for +4%

xD

[kindred tapir]

There are all res nodes though

Again not meny but a few

[white lagoon]

should i add clammor crash clatter to my minstrell crusader or be a purist

https://tenor.com/view/batman-thinking-gif-18107621495886085895

itd add dmg in the rotation

my cult teachings tell me that introducing a second damage source to the build would be heresy

[forest sentinel]

https://tenor.com/view/heresy-detected-gif-25567321

@white lagoon

[woven fox]

• that isn’t fire related

[white lagoon]

Yeah tho it still does about 190k

[kindred tapir]

+1 levels is trash but 15% more MS

[forest sentinel]

pretty big

528 base kinda insane aswell

[white lagoon]

The magic shield base is more like 400 but it gets increased by gear defence

Its very good, only problem is how many of the stats kinda suck XD

Mana regen is ok, but the +1

I got a mythic chestplate with 3 gear defence rolls for a total of 900 magic shield, tho i still think towering physique would probs be better

[white lagoon]

ok was about to say mby its not that simple but no its that simple its just better itd be like to a 300% magic shield from talent tree, a +45% magic shield increase to a bit less than 345%

most likely towards the 330% mark, cuz that 300% includes the calcs regarding the other more magic shield modifiers

[white lagoon]

After some math, for 4.6k magic shield with the unique and 5k with a good mythic. The difference from that 15% to the extra 400 ms is actually smaller. Assuming its 300% without that and 340% with, itd be the difference between a 20k without and 20.240k with

Ill do the hard math without guesstimating

Tmr

[forest sentinel]

Big sad, Witch's brew works only of added base magic shield regen, which is super weird

Most likely bugged if I had to guess

[spiral loom]

What is "ES Regen"?

[forest sentinel]

ES regen?, We have energy which is used for melee skills

No clue what the S would be in ES

[spiral loom]

ty

[white lagoon]

Might be energy shield, its a poe term

[white lagoon]

so with 5k ms and 300% ms% total for a build without the unique and 4.6k for a build with. Without 105% more ms, and with 120% more.

300% - 1+105%, x - 1+120%, x= 321

5k x 400% = 20000
4.6k x 421% = 19366

its actually a magic shield down if u have all the more multipliers in the talent tree like i do

i can actually make this into a linear graph to see where the more multiplier becomes better than the flat extra 400 magic shield

for this calculation, the extra 15% more would only outscale the flat 400 magic shield at about 8k magic shield flat

8k x 400% = 32000
7.6k x 421% = 31996

which checks out

These calcs dont include magic shield from int tho which would lower the amount of flat needed for the more to be better than the 400 flat. Tho not by a lot

Whatd influence it more tho is having less of the more% nodes in the talent tree. The less the better that unique is

[ripe hedge]

@white lagoon What is this calculation for? seeing if Towering Physique is worth it?

[kindred tapir]

I think so

[ripe hedge]

is that not just absurdly high? 400/15%=2666.66~ MS should be the breakpoint no? Not flat but from all other sources.

I guess i don't understand these values:

5k x 400% = 20000
4.6k x 421% = 19366
400% is assuming 300% increased MS i think, but then the 21% makes no sense, since it should be:
5k x 400% = 20000
4.6k x 400% x 115% = 21160
Comparing Towering Physique to mythic chest with 900 flat. I think he has the 10% more MS node on the tree though so its more complex than that but ya definitely didn't calculate the more multiplier correctly.

[ripe hedge]

Ya explained right before this using 421% instead of 400% to include the 15% more. Thats just wrong. If you want to include it into the same multiplier it would be 460% not 421%.

[kindred tapir]

I think the more would be better imo but idk the math gets kinda muddy

I'd need to test it to figure it out myself

[white lagoon]

The 400% includes other more multipliers so its not 460%. Its already including 105% of more multis into the equation so the 15% more is much smaller

[ripe hedge]

more multpliers don't add

15% more is always 15% more

[white lagoon]

If thats the case no math makes sense i think, including the one in cte2 planner

[ripe hedge]

FlatValue * (1 + SumOf%) * (1 + More%1) * (1 + More%2) * (1 + More%3) ...

More is specifically multiplicative multipliers(aka separate multipliers that don't add with others) while other % increases are just additive multipliers.

ie. 400 ms, with 20% Magic shield, 40% Magic shield, 30% Magic shield, 10% More Magic shield, 15% More Magic shield. Would look like this:
400 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.4 + 0.3) * (1 + 0.1) * (1 + 0.15)

[kindred tapir]

Am not a huge math guy but does the order in which the mores are added (like a 50% more vs a 15% more) matter? And if it does how does the game select which on goes first?

[ripe hedge]

No doesn't matter its proportional

[white lagoon]

No it doesnt, its just weird cuz like, if the mores function like that we should have much more absurd magic shield numbers when having a total of 105% of more multipliers

No?

[kindred tapir]

Just double your base+additives

[ripe hedge]

Where are you getting more multipliers?

[white lagoon]

Game changers

[kindred tapir]

Idk i dont think its that crazy and i would assume it works like that

Since thats how damage works

[ripe hedge]

Stare of Abyss(50%), Defender(10%), Towering Physique(15%), like where else?

[kindred tapir]

Ascendancy?

[ripe hedge]

Oh another 15% from trickster

[white lagoon]

Im not on pc so cte doesnt work

[kindred tapir]

So 90% more

[ripe hedge]

No

you don't add them

Smh

[kindred tapir]

I know i know

Just adding them up together lol

[white lagoon]

105 not including towering physique, theres more

[kindred tapir]

We are missing 15% from his 105 still is what i was getting at

[ripe hedge]

I think you're mistaking some as more multipliers unless they are from gear

Is not more

[kindred tapir]

Additive

[white lagoon]

Not thay one one to the left i think

[ripe hedge]

ya 15%

already included

Even still more multipliers are always proportional though since they never have diminished returns

Like 10% increased MS when you already have 200% doesn't give you 10% increase to your net value, it would only be ~3.33% increase to your resulting number

but more multiplier would always be 10% increase regardless of everything else

That being said i get that its not straight forward either way

[kindred tapir]

Order of importance is like More > Flat > additive

[ripe hedge]

Not always tru tho

But most of the time

[kindred tapir]

It is

If you take into

[ripe hedge]

If you only have 100 base and can add 100 more base value thats effectively 100% more

[kindred tapir]

How meny more modifiers are available to the player

But i understand what your saying

[white lagoon]

Cte planner is so stupid for not workin on phone

Lemme see if i can parsec into pc

[ripe hedge]

i tried using it on phone too was sadge

I'll see what the threshold is assuming
Trickster 15%, Defender 10%, Stare of Abyss 50%
and comparing 900 flat vs 500 flat +15% more

[woven fox]

Would say add the one elemental buff as well for ms

[white lagoon]

Ye no i by mistake added the 20% more magic shield REGEN into the calcs

Ffs im blind

[ripe hedge]

looks like 2166.66~ is the threshold

And heres showing that other more multipliers don't matter because they are proportional

Even the % MS doesn't matter 😛

Whats important is the 400 flat MS difference since that isn't proportional

[white lagoon]

More or less 400, pretty sure u can get much more out of a lucky max roll 4 gear defence chest

[ripe hedge]

its 400/0.15-500

[white lagoon]

Got one on boots and it brought it from 250 to 750 more or less, so chest being about 400 should be able to get 1100 1200

[ripe hedge]

I missed the -500 when i was doing the calculation initially

so ya if you can break 2167 flat MS with Towering Physique it will be better from that point from a pure MS perspective. Obviously you could have Regen or Resist you need on the mythic that still makes it better, but ya... 😛

[white lagoon]

Try it with 600 difference as well for a god roll mby

[ripe hedge]

sure

600 / 0.15 - 500 = 3500 Will confirm with the spreadsheet 1s

yup

Value with more multipliers factored in for the giggles

3500 arguably a lot harder to hit

[white lagoon]

Not enougg magic shield

I saw sm1 hit 40k and i want that

[ripe hedge]

Lol I mean... thats just assuming you get 3000 MS from things other than Towering Physique

Am assuming Towering is 500 btw

[kindred tapir]

could be slightly higher

also not 32% qual

[ripe hedge]

Could get probs like 800-1000+ from tome and not sure how good well rolled helm, pants, boots are with MS

Looks achievable just need good gear

[white lagoon]

Need lantern tho which is dodge :/

[ripe hedge]

Oh ya didn't know you were still doing that

[kindred tapir]

Dodge seems like throwing everytime it comes up LOL

[ripe hedge]

I mean not really sure how you're sustaining MS HF otherwise at 40k lol

[white lagoon]

Btw the trickster talent doesnt take in dodge rating

So like, yeah, shit

[ripe hedge]

Did you report it or?

[white lagoon]

Yeah

Neither dodge or magic shield %

[ripe hedge]

I still haven't tested it haven't played, started working on godot project with a buddy

[white lagoon]

Its DOG

Oh godot nice

[kindred tapir]

How much damage a tick is that?

[white lagoon]

13k

[ripe hedge]

Flat? A lot, you get like what 11% every 0.5s?

[white lagoon]

33%

[kindred tapir]

but with 90% fire res and cap DS

[ripe hedge]

thought that was the self dmg

[kindred tapir]

Ya thats what I want to know

[ripe hedge]

OH self dmg is 33% per 0.5

so ya 66% * .1 if 90% res

Probs can't use lava spurs if you're pushing that high MS values

[white lagoon]

13,333×0.1×0.5 666.5

[kindred tapir]

thats it?

[ripe hedge]

.5 for?

[kindred tapir]

You can DEF sustain that

[ripe hedge]

suppress?

[white lagoon]

Damage suppress

[kindred tapir]

Ye

[ripe hedge]

Do you really have 100% suppress with all that?

[white lagoon]

83% no jewels

[kindred tapir]

I mean no but if you are taking the ass that gives 20% and both game changers

may as well cap it no?

[ripe hedge]

Then you probs don't have 300% increased ms no?

more like 250

[white lagoon]

We pray for good int rolls

[ripe hedge]

if he has the 3 nodes you'd max it ya

[kindred tapir]

na

[ripe hedge]

Oh i forgot about Int

[kindred tapir]

its like 83% I think

[ripe hedge]

Ya it is 83% but im saying you would max it with jewels if you had the 3 nodes

[kindred tapir]

ohya, 100%

so you only need to sustain like 1.3K per sec

[ripe hedge]

Basically not happening without ghost shrouds with all that other investment

[white lagoon]

U need to sustain more

[kindred tapir]

This is also not including DR from like fort or endys

[white lagoon]

Mobs do too much dmg

Ive been testing already

[ripe hedge]

I think you just end up having 1 point in prayer ngl

sadly

[white lagoon]

Yeah, tho i been thinking

Theres a 2% magic shield leech in the trickster tree

[ripe hedge]

If dealing dmg its good

[white lagoon]

Tho id have to sace a more area damage

[ripe hedge]

you can get up to 8% MS Leech per second

[white lagoon]

And the more dodge rating is basically dead stats so that dont matter

[ripe hedge]

Its just not passive

[white lagoon]

Yeah problem is in combat sustain vs groups

[ripe hedge]

Recently tested how leech works and its pretty rough

[white lagoon]

U get blown to schmithereens

One acc enemy and day ruined

Two and life ruined

[ripe hedge]

Honestly....

Could try to do what i was doing while leveling

[white lagoon]

Prayer seems like a great bandaid, if only there was another % ms regenerated mechanic in the game

[ripe hedge]

Since i didn't fully sustain i would use heart of ice MS restoration at around %MS to extend my sustain as long as possible. So maybe you can stack duration to focus on that exact thing and just turn HF on during that interval

[ripe hedge]

I checked i didn't see anything really

[white lagoon]

Heart of ice also good, but... im minstrell crusader so i cry

[ripe hedge]

MS is just meant to be hard to sustain ig

LMFAO oh ya

you don't have that option.

Is there any way to leech crits to ms?

[white lagoon]

So im like, i could spec into prayer and for big groups clatter one shot

Not that ik of

[white lagoon]

But then id be commiting heresy

[ripe hedge]

xdddd

i would be using it 100%

[white lagoon]

It does 1 and a half mil.

Its fuckin insane.

Bullshit.

Why cant hf do that.

[ripe hedge]

cause its passive and not meant to be main dps skill

[kindred tapir]

Imagine if it was POE and did more damage for more charges consumed

[ripe hedge]

or at least meant to require high investment to be

[kindred tapir]

🤩

[ripe hedge]

Tbh when i was trying to make crit HF tree for you Ars i was trying to go Ascendant lol

For more Int value

But no sustain at all at that point lmfao

[white lagoon]

If int gave msr

Which for some fuckin reason it dont

[ripe hedge]

i mean could still try dodge thing, but then you end up having to take Ghast which has 40% less MS

Pretty big L

[white lagoon]

I put it as a suggestion btw

[ripe hedge]

Meh

[kindred tapir]

What about

[ripe hedge]

I don't think its a good idea

[white lagoon]

Also gonna put one that dex should give moce speed

[kindred tapir]

Taking mom and using mana to help with regen

[ripe hedge]

This is how i was initially building MS HF 😄

[kindred tapir]

Int not affecting mana REALLY hurts mom imo

[ripe hedge]

Theres uniques for that

but i feel you

Theres like 2 items if rolled perfect you get like 200% of int as Mana

[white lagoon]

Yea also smthin i was lookin at, mana battery with uniques and int stacking to convert int to mana with uniques

[kindred tapir]

[white lagoon]

Idk how much dmg to mana u can get total tho

[kindred tapir]

Time to get to theory crafting again LOL

[white lagoon]

If u can get 100%, itd be huge

But doubt it

[kindred tapir]

And you dont even need base mana just the regen to help with susatin tbh (And enough to regen into/take the hit)

I think it could be decent ngl

[ripe hedge]

Not a lot

Theres basically no good sources of flat mana you're looking at like 3-5k mana at quite high investment

[kindred tapir]

I mean if you are taking what like 1.3K per S

You would only need about that that much and maybe that much regen to help with sustain

Unless you wanna build it to help with damage also

[white lagoon]

Ok we all become patreons undercover and make uniques to make an op mana battery build TRUST

[kindred tapir]

Lol, maybe. My next unique im trying to brew something for low life

[ripe hedge]

if only you could completely turn off health regen i'd build around low life stuff too

some juicy modifiers

[kindred tapir]

Dont worry im not making a unique thats good for low life

Im trying to make a uniqhe that makes low life work lol

[white lagoon]

An unique with -100% less health regen

[kindred tapir]

(50% HP reservation or something)

[ripe hedge]

Oh right there is isn't there

doesn't it still heal you though?

Gives you a skill that heals you with some condition

[white lagoon]

-100% health leech with it mby?

From somewhere

If thats how it works

[ripe hedge]

Base health leech is 0 so you can just get no leech

Either way you'd use some sort of self dmg or environmental dmg or something to take health dmg below the threshold then have the buff up 100%

[white lagoon]

Holy fire!

[ripe hedge]

Meh if you aren't crusader... gl

[white lagoon]

Fall damage grinding then ig

[ripe hedge]

iirc environmental dmg is 50/50 hp/ms so you could do that

not have to bypass your MS regen

[white lagoon]

Elytra rocket into a wall

[ripe hedge]

ya w/e you need to do lol

the hard part is just disabling your regen

[white lagoon]

Ye, if its only from a unique thats kinda shit ngl

[ripe hedge]

i do remember seeing the -100% health regen unique

[white lagoon]

Bad mechanic

[ripe hedge]

but i think that heals you with a skill on kill or something like that

so that kind of defeats the purpose

[white lagoon]

Ye kinda anti synergy

[ripe hedge]

Okay welp as much as i'd love yapping about this i need to work on this project also hungry so should make food too