#Help with my planned Dactyl Manuform build and a few misc questions.

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

acoustic lion
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I want to make a wireless dactyl keyboard with zmk, I'd like advice on it, I'm trying to keep it cheap <$150, and have a few wants and questions.

I would like to have a dongle with both male USB-C and USB-A this dongle shouldn't act as a Bluetooth adapter but as a hid device, so it will work in bios and not require configuration on new devices. It also should allow normal Bluetooth when not in use.

In my little searching I have not been able to find this item but people say another nrf microcontroller would work. Now this is what I have heard, a part of a spilt board is designated as central, and only that part can be used wired, is this correct? So the dongle would always need to be powered. I am wondering if there might be a workaround? maybe the dongle would be designed as central if found, but if not the half of board would be designated as central. Is there a pr that would allow wired connections on non central boards?

If there was a workaround I'd imagine I'd have to make a custom board for this if I wanted it to have both USB-A and USB-C I believe you can get a usb a port from a c port using no addition circuitry, assuming you don't try to plug both in at once. I don't think I even need an additional conector for usb a, but a different one would be required for usb c. I could also cut off all gpio headers to make it smaller. I have rarely soldered, I have a ts80p, and access to a hot air station via my amature radio club. Honestly this seems like a cool side project but what would be the price for custom pcb and without buying stuff in bulk? Now thinking about it however it is only a small time I would need a dongle and I still can physically connect, but it still would be convenient.

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Anyways the other question I have is what is the state of pointing device on ZMK? I plan to have a spot for a trackball, but not put one their until I'm certain I like the keyboard and want the trackball. If so I probably would use a 3360 sensor. I see prs for it that have been open for long and people using trackballs just fine on ZMK.

I haven't done too much planning of components or price of stuff, I believe I will go with 5x4 because with 4 and 6 keys on the thumb clusters that puts me safely below 36x2 switches, so I don't have to buy extra switches

for a batteries definitly overkill and I could save money here but I'll go with protected samsung 35E 18650 batteries, irrational decision but unless I go over budget I'm not changing it, idk its cool.

For key switches I don't have a single clue, I like clicky switches, but don't want to annoy others, or even make a notable amount of noise. An old beat up thinkpad running a tiling window manager with a 3d printed cellular modem mount taped to the back that looks like an IED is enough attention already, the weird keyboard shouldn't be making noise. Since I can't decide I want hot swap sockets, pcbs are expensive though. I could be wrong but I believe Cosmos has an option to use Kailh sockets without any pcb but there are problems, I'll still try to get over them however.

For key caps I'd like them blank XDA, don't care much beyond that.

deep breach
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The dongle can act as a BT keyboard as well, e.g. you caan connect a battery to it and use it as a three piece wireless keyboard. But you can't switch between using a dongle and not having one at all without re-flashing the keyboard halves with different settings.

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I don't know how you can get a male USB-A connector but I assume it should be possible

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Pricing for small PCBs without any automated assembly is very cheap, you mostly pay for shipping. Think 5$ for 5 pcbs and 10-20$ in shipping

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Depends on how you value your time, since designing a PCB is a skill to be learned

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If I were planning a trackball build I'd definitely use a PMW3610 instead, since the driver is available and power consumption seems much better. Note that while pointing device and trackball support is experimental, trackball on non-centrals is extremely experimental. I am talking one person who implemented it and came across rough edges

acoustic lion
acoustic lion
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am I wrong with the 3360?

deep breach
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I don't remember exactly, but I don't see a reason to go with 3360 compared to 3610

acoustic lion
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I see that the specs are a lot better, but idk if it matters on a trackball

acoustic lion
deep breach
acoustic lion
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BOM:

Free | Filament/3d printing I have an Ender 3 and a kilo and a half of filament to burn
$27 | Samsung 35E Batteries $10 x 2 + $7 Shipping
https://www.imrbatteries.com/samsung-35e-18650-3500mah-8a-battery-protected-button-top/
$11 | Kailh hot swap sockets $11 + amazon shipping
https://a.co/d/j1kbZXw
$? | keycaps
$10? | wiring/diodes - cheap, idk
$? | key switches - havent decided
$12 | controller - Supermini NRF52840 $6 x 2
$? | non oneoff shipping
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805848952479.html
Total - $60

IMR Batteries
Samsung 35E 18650 3500mAh 8A Battery - Protected Button Top

Shop everything 18650! Rechargeable Lithium-ion 18650 Batteries, Chargers, Wraps – for custom battery packs and more! Popular brands for 20700, 21700, and 26650 battery sizes available.

50PCS Hot Swappable Socket for Kailh 1350 Low Profile Switches Mech...

50PCS Hot Swappable Socket for Kailh 1350 Low Profile Switches Mechanical Keyboard PCB Base Socket DIY kailh keyboard switches Linear Tactile Kailh Hot-swappable PCB socket Hot Plug Features: Brand new and for professional use 50PCS large quantity and support Hot Swap Mainly applied on computer k...

acoustic lion
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is there any major thing missing from the bom?

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Help with my planned Dactyl Manuform build and a few misc questions.

deep breach
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The sockets are for Choc switches, FYI. You can also get them cheaper from aliexpress, even from Kailh's own storefront there

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You might also want to invest in a pair of wire strippers, or get enamel wire. I prefer solid core silicone wire with the former, rather than the latter (I did builds with both)

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I also like per key PCBs because it makes soldering much easier, but if you want to save a few bucks you can omit

acoustic lion
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I have a pair of them, but they are a bit large and unwiedly

deep breach
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As long as it can do ~26 AWG wire it should be fine, you don't do the stripping inside the case

acoustic lion
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oh also screws and heat set inserts

deep breach
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Yeah, it can't do small enough wires

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Only up to 20 AWG

acoustic lion
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on the dongle note, I found this in the faq:
Any chance for 2.4GHz dongle implementation?

At this time, there are no current plans to implement 2.4GHz dongle mode. This is because utilizing Nordic's proprietary 2.4GHz low level protocols requires use of the Nordic Connect SDK, which is licensed with a more restrictive license than ZMK's MIT license. However, ZMK does plan to implement dongle mode using BLE (with encryption). This will result in a 3.75ms average latency from the protocol itself.

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I'll try finding info on that

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well so much for docs

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and currently I can't c

acoustic lion
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#hardware message

acoustic lion
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@deep breach Ok, I just wanted to make sure the "dongle mode" wasn't something else, is it worth opening a FR? There are similar ones but not identical

deep breach
acoustic lion
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feature request

deep breach
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I wouldn't expect it to get priority anytime soon though

acoustic lion
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yeah

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I might open something, I don't think it would be priortized, but its worth a shot.

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Maybe I should figure out how to c

deep breach
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Go for it, but it's not a trivial change. Probably requires some rearchitecturing

acoustic lion
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yeah, I think with some time I can make an ok FR

acoustic lion
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To save money and effort I think I might use enameled wires. I believe they might be a bit easier to route, and I can just burn of the enamel with my iron. Is my though process correct here?

deep breach
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Yes, it works although I didn't enjoy the process personally. Burned off enamel gunks up the iron and it is tricky to solder to the controller because there is increased risk of frying pins due to longer heat time