NEON GENESIS | talk on #nulls-morb-land

[shadow tartan]

NEON GENESIS is a post-2.0 lighting mod (with Phantom Liberty support) focusing on general vibrancy and style—a more kitsch vision, if you like. Includes physically-accurate bloom, perfect exposure (simulated light metering), higher color fidelity and range, stylized atmosphere, and more.

See stream of pics in #1158116250946379816, discuss here.

[shadow tartan]

mornin'!

@prisma minnow what do you think of Chai tea with such a name?

lol

This mod has the most realistic and beautiful sky parameters of any of my mods.

[prisma minnow]

could never quite figure out the sky/atmosphere stuff myself, not being able to preview env settings during runtime is rough

you have a real knack for figuring things out

[shadow tartan]

Want me to be honest?

I just ripped off q302_deeb_blue

[prisma minnow]

[shadow tartan]

I did make a few changes though

General pics will be in #1158116250946379816

This channel will only contain shots that show off a specific part of NEON GENESIS to discuss about them, if you'd like to see something else, please go to the channel above!

[shadow tartan]

Gonna make myself a cup of tea and then come back. Hoping to finish this off today.

Weather rebalancing is next.

[prisma minnow]

just imagine you're locked in an office at CDPR somewhere

[shadow tartan]

I hope to make a system that mandates that if you transition from sunny to light clouds you MUST transition to cloudy, and if you transition to sunny to cloudy, you MUST transition to rain.

Also rain's gonna be white, not the stupid blue-green rain we got going on.

[prisma minnow]

you figure out anything regarding that character brightening parameter? I played around with it but it didn't seem to be doing anything other than breaking distant NPC lighting by playing with the multiplier

[shadow tartan]

I just think it's parametrizing the general amount of lighting applied on characters

if it's configured to be higher than 1, characters are brightened; less than 1, they're darker.

Nothing to be done there

Definitely gonna work on INI settings for NEON GENESIS though

Rim lighting settings are next on the chopping block.

[prisma minnow]

about that, I only tested with RT (not raster/PT) and they don't seem to work as they did before, if at all

probably need to take a closer look

they changed more things with the shaders, if that forum post I saw is anything to go by

[shadow tartan]

?

deets about that forum post?

[prisma minnow]

yeah looking real quick

https://forums.cdprojektred.com/index.php?threads/patch-2-01-coming-soon-known-issues.11120728/page-5#post-13664218

it's possible it only affects PT but idk, would need to compare raster/RT in 1.63 with 2.0

[prisma minnow]

ok, fake news me. the rim enhancement settings do still work, but maybe differently? seems more scene dependent than I remember. the ambient mix is still a thing too.

[prisma minnow]

https://tenor.com/view/i-need-it-spongebob-spongebob-squarepants-gif-4883506

[shadow tartan]

You'll have it. Soon.

[analog sphinx]

https://tenor.com/view/neon-genesis-evangelion-shinji-ikari-anime-gif-20645033

I wonder if theres a easter egg to this

[high swan]

um

is this the follow up to your other one

or a different one

or what

[shadow tartan]

@high swan different

[prisma minnow]

u got any more of dem screenshots

[shadow tartan]

sure

in #1158116250946379816

gonna write an article about the flare system in the mod, too

it does include some spicy info from a certain data leak

[prisma minnow]

shh

also I'm sorry but I completely forgot about the media showcase channel

[shadow tartan]

better now?

[prisma minnow]

yes, i really do like the look. stands out without having to go all E3 (and I love my )

[shadow tartan]

see the trick is

do stuff the right and physically correct way

and you'll get a unique look

tl;dr: remove additive blending and any thresholds

some things you just can't do, for example, removing the additive blending for flares

but, you can remove the additive blending for bloom

I really went against the grain with NEON GENESIS because I wanted to see if stuff could be done completely differently

(unfortunately [or maybe, fortunately] this requires a quick peek at a certain data leak)

deadass the most beautiful i've seen this game look

@high swan thoughts on the subtle but present chromatic aberration?

[prisma minnow]

damn, you can really get a lot out of an env

you gonna be doing anything, I guess, special with the weathers other than rebalancing?

[high swan]

Is this the CA?

[shadow tartan]

yeah

[shadow tartan]

to me it looks perfect

[high swan]

This too?

[shadow tartan]

yes

[high swan]

[shadow tartan]

like actually believable levels

[high swan]

What IRL lens/cameras do you have

now we gotta have this conversation

[shadow tartan]

Dude I know that it's not multi-lens emulating

No a(po)chromatic aberration

[high swan]

this would be a much more believable instance of CA than the other trees

why do you WANT CA

this triggers me a lot im sorry

[shadow tartan]

makes the image juicy

[prisma minnow]

not a camera guy but CA and even film grain work with the style of this game

[high swan]

https://www.image-engineering.de/library/image-quality/factors/1074-chromatic-aberration#:~:text=Chromatic aberration is caused by,or bent at the boundaries.

[high swan]

UNLESS YOU UNDERSTAND OPTICS AND LENSES AND GRAIN STRUCTURE AND AND AND

here it's good examlpe

this is like chromatic abberation central

extremely strongly contrasting lines, getting BLASTED with light in the highlights, running along the edges of the lens/image sensor

[prisma minnow]

you're right, don't know much about that, but style

[shadow tartan]

hope i can get carlosironman to do a little showcase with PT

cuz

I can't run this game with PT anymore

[high swan]

games tend to apply this in an overly binary way, too simplistic to really benefit from the visual beauty of these things

[high swan]

why not

OK

BOOM

I FOUND A GOOD REASON

EXAMPLE

WHY YOUR IMPLEMENTATION OF CA ITS A BAD

!!!!!!!!

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/learn-and-explore/a/products-and-innovation/chromatic-aberration.html#

[shadow tartan]

so subtle you can't notice it

[shadow tartan]

i'll be sure to include a perfectionist option

[prisma minnow]

I get that, like CA looks bad in something like TW3 or Bloodborne but it works for this game idk

[high swan]

its mostly on the edges or corners of the image

its not just

EVERYWHERE

[shadow tartan]

well mine isn't everywhere either lmfao

I thought it looked good in bloodborne, in fact, I really love how FROM handles post-processing

[high swan]

ya but its too present

[high swan]

have yet to play

[shadow tartan]

i can just adjust the margin for you

[high swan]

tbh i would trust them to do it right

[shadow tartan]

perfectionist settings

[high swan]

dorkmode

[shadow tartan]

yeah

[high swan]

listen you asked

[shadow tartan]

and I listened

[high swan]

too much on da bridge railings

for example

it should be like, idk, almost very subtly vignetted by it IF ITS THERE AT ALL

[prisma minnow]

eh it was kind of too much with Bloodborne, but tbh its been so long, TW3 is what I have in more recent memory

[shadow tartan]

The image to me looks just subtly blurred enough yet sharpened enough by 4k that it's perfect

The fog, too

I do plan to get rid of distantfog though

[prisma minnow]

How's it gonna look at poor person resolutions

[shadow tartan]

You can run it at poor person res though

turn off any RT

[high swan]

"#3. Focal Length
Generally, zoom lenses are most affected by chromatic aberration at their minimum and maximum focal lengths. Let’s say that you have a 24-70mm lens – both at 24mm and at 70mm is where your lens will show more chromatic aberration.

To deal with this, you have two options: the first one is to use a prime lens, which will handle chromatic aberration much better, while the second one is not to use the minimum/maximum focal lengths of your zoom lens and just to use the ones in between. You can crop a little bit or do a panorama to replicate the minimum/maximum focal lengths of the lens if you wish. "

[shadow tartan]

DLSS perf @ 4k DSR

look nerd I'M the nerd here

[prisma minnow]

Won't the CA be more obvious? The envs have params for CA and render resolution I thought

[high swan]

also it should scale with depth of field

[shadow tartan]

Dun think so. It's just about dispersal... and I don't know SHIT about dispersal

[high swan]

this is a big part of how CA as implemented in games bugs the shit out of me

it generally means you're shooting poorly, in extreme lighting conditions, on bad settings, on a shit lens

[prisma minnow]

And yeah the distant fog is ugly, has to go, maybe more volumetric fog? But in my experimentation with it I never got a handle on it

[high swan]

yeah the n64 superman fog

wtf is that

lol

btw even certain cheap older lenses are very good at preventing CA completely

"For low or no CA you want an apochromatic lens. You may be able to find one used for $300. I recommend the Voigtländer 65 or 110 APO,"

idk

it just bothers me ppl are deadsetting a visual effect that often means you made a mistake or purchased low quality gear as a photographer

or didnt correct the image properly

it should be barely visible

when i go outside and take pictures in the brightest bright lighting conditions, direct sun, even with leaves hitting the sunlight directly on the edges of my frame, if im exposing correctly and using my nicest lenses,

its barely visible at all

[shadow tartan]

visual style is important above all

remember this part too

[high swan]

yes but these arent flat images im editing my images too but the CA usually sint there to begin with

i rarely ever have to correct for it

5d mk4 on zeiss 50mm f/2.0 makro-planar

its SLIGHTLY present around the rim of her glasses but not in the leaves

and its bc those glasses are like CA central

here u see it on the beads or w/e of her boots, along the lining of the door

but even then its very subtle, ONLY AROUND THOSE ELEMENTS, and in an incredibly extreme setting thats like, designed to provoke CA

when u zoom in all the way literally on individual strands of her hair exposed to direct 12 o clock noon bright as possible bright midday sun

then u have it on CERTAIN strands of hair

but they're still sharp while having CA

even here its a lot more minimal than like

that one bright patch

here its on these metal hoop things

which are liek chromatic aberration machines

metallic things like this that are like harsh and rough and VERY THIN and are in direct sun and are very metallic and reflective have tons of CA

but i would just turn the magenta / purple channel saturation down while editing this

theres nothing else magenta or purple in the image

the point im making is

[prisma minnow]

neon genesis CA overdrive when

[high swan]

this CA is soft BECAUSE of the CA

thats not a necessary thing

those two things are conflated but not always together

[prisma minnow]

can turn it off, no? I assume you play with it off to begin with

[high swan]

yes but

my tldr is that its a VERY imprecise application of a visual artefact that should not exist if you are doing a good job with the camera in the first place, and are using good lenses

you can see how the in-game CA looks different to the CA i have in my actual real good cameras, and its worse imo

its CA that ALSO makes things soft

ca doesnt automatically = soft or less detail PER SE

[prisma minnow]

the direction should hold up without CA imo, the colors and sky alone

[high swan]

it also should be purplish and along the edges of things

[high swan]

lmao it doesnt need CA, CA DETRACTS from it

ESPECIALLY this game implementaiton of ca

which is better than most but still worthless crap imo

photo boomer ted talk done

[high swan]

compare game vs reality ca

now u know why im triggered ggs

[prisma minnow]

would have to replace the whole shader to get that look

[high swan]

no just turn down the ca or increase contrast and sharpening slightly

or turn off ca even better just pretend you have a good lens

[prisma minnow]

what if I don't want to pretend

[high swan]

You are pretending you have a bad lens by using CA

[prisma minnow]

damn. you got me. never gonna recover from that tbh.

[shadow tartan]

anyone wanna test threshold-less flare?

[shadow tartan]

goddamn

Sometimes I just can't believe how beautiful they made Dogtown to be

Figured out what subpixel dispersal is

Squint into your monitor and look at the individual pixels

The subpixels are offset to give a screen-wide chromatic aberration effect

Turning that shit off NOW

[prisma minnow]

what's going on in the left side there 😅

[shadow tartan]

raster bs

as per usual

[prisma minnow]

I can test but only soon™️

that glitch there is the GI bake or whatever breaking, yeah? it's random and the only solution is PT

[shadow tartan]

I wonder if the square root of 2 is the correct value to set our lens flare curve to

It is the natural weight of the distance from the camera center

It would make sense

Using this line to justify the removal of all thresholds:

Light doesn't need a certain amount of itself to react; it simply does.

[high swan]

what means

[shadow tartan]

don't worry

means

the shader doesn't need a specific amount of light (threshold) to trigger

it just happens

[high swan]

good flares are very important

[shadow tartan]

feels good to me

[prisma minnow]

so, still any use in testing your file?

[shadow tartan]

yes

it uses 2 instead of sqrt(2) but

same kind of thing

I can repack actually

sec

[prisma minnow]

something weird here, think this might be a game fault though

[shadow tartan]

probablyu

light occluders and emissives are weird after 1.62

[prisma minnow]

yeah, seems to be the sun clipping through the building here

[prisma minnow]

so far not seeing anything weird other than that

did fog always move with the camera?

ok, this location, the fog is a bit weird, might be some variables here

[prisma minnow]

mornings are

[high swan]

can u show what this means visually

[shadow tartan]

symptom of distant fog

I don't have enough time to tune volfog to get rid of it yet

Think I'm going to release NEON GENESIS tomorrow

[high swan]

What about the one with portra and stuff 😞

[shadow tartan]

Not yet.

[prisma minnow]

hey, so how do you feel about playing with ||some ini settings||

it's subtle but it's there. first pic is with current values, second pic is with pre-1.5 values

this is with psycho RT

[prisma minnow]

I've dug pretty deep, there's really not much else to see

Some settings seem to override whatever the env is being told to do, but not sure there's much use case there.

[shadow tartan]

Can you try sending me the CET log for 1.2 settings dump?

[prisma minnow]

And anything related to RTXDI doesn't work without path tracing

well, the best we have is from 1.04 really

that's from the nexus dump

They didn't really start changing ini values until 1.3

My screenshots are with DiffuseIlluminationAOModulation set to 0.4 instead of the current 1.0

Outdoor scenes can look better, mostly. Interiors... well. It depends.

https://rootpunk.com/mod/#documentation

This covers INI changes from 1.3 to 1.6, no 1.2 or earlier, sadly. But the dump is enough.

Might also be worth testing this

[shadow tartan]

should I do it @prisma minnow ?

IT's OUT

https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/9433/

[prisma minnow]

late but

[high swan]

can you do a compatability mod for weather mods

Also, you should have vanilla comparison shots on your mod page.

[shadow tartan]

Lmfao no.

I’m gonna ask several different mod probability mod authors to lend me their values

[brave slate]

Man this is a stunning mod, and with little to no performance loss for me

Thank you. Waiting to endorse lol

[high swan]

Waiting for weather stuff to try + your other mod

[shadow tartan]

working on rain

ahem, that's raster, by the way.

[high swan]

https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/3901

i think thats best weather mod

but idk need to updating for 2.0.1

[prisma minnow]

nah it's fine

weather is unimmersive btw

[shadow tartan]

honestly tbbh yeah

the way it's implemented sucks omega dick

every game implements it in the most lazy way

[prisma minnow]

yeah, there's a reason CDPR themselves more or less have it locked behind quests

[high swan]

i rlly noticed and felt a lot more diff types of weather and more diverse transition with mods

imo its needed

weather system usually need lot of specific refinement

im always use for open world games imo

fo4 fallout new vegas

random modder will put more thought into it than a game dev also making an entire separate whole ass game

[prisma minnow]

weather is usually pretty low on the list of priorities, probably. especially for this game.

the weathers themselves aren't the issue though, it's the transitions, they're really rough with no buildup, it's just "clouds do stuff weather changes" all under in like 10 seconds

[shadow tartan]

yeah

plus

they made the omega smort choice

to have different sectors have different weathers

so badlands i.e. have forced light clouds

so when NC is rainy, badlands are sunny

worst part is, NC doesn't have a single rain cloud atop.

and when you go back in, everything changes willy-nilly; same vice-versa

[prisma minnow]

yep, which on top of more diverse weathers makes that all the more obvious

isn't it possible to go into the sectors and rip that out? probably would be a lot of work and be incompatible with God knows what though

[shadow tartan]

system is far too janky to reliably test too

earlier with the rain thing I got stuck with perpetual rain

something in pacifica fixed it; but now i'm stuck with perpetual sun!

[prisma minnow]

right, stuck weathers

never got fixed lol

[shadow tartan]

so many subtle bugs were introduced with 1.5 it's insane

[prisma minnow]

mm, feel like they decided to ease up on testing/QA around then

more than a few visual bugs since then, especially with RT all remain in 2.0/2.01

the weather system at least seems fixable with mods, in theory. the designers use the quest system to force weathers, maybe it's possible to rip out/disable the current system and use something similar to that, idk

[waxen pike]

Days Gone wants to tell you something... It has really amazing weather effects including snow that slowly builds up in the environment. RDR2 is really good to imho.

But for Cyberpunk yeah... Weather is kinda shit and plagued by a lot of bugs. Transitions are visually fixable tho. I increased the transition times for almost every transition for my mod and it works better I think

[waxen pike]

That looks insane. One of the best mods out there. If you're ever interested in making a version with my weather transitions added just hit me up. I would love to support the project!

[shadow tartan]

I would be interested!

[waxen pike]

Ok perfect. If you have a version you would like to have my weather transitions added just send me the "cp2077_master_env_ep1_v006.env" file. I add them and after that you can use the file just like before.

Just beware that there are lots of references between weatherStates and weatherStateTransitions. I fucked them up multiple times before with not copying a handle and then nothing works

[shadow tartan]

@waxen pike pretty bls

[waxen pike]

Thanks for the file. I'm kinda busy right now but will do it in the following days and send it back to you 🙂

[high swan]

Please do it!!!!!

OMG it's happening

Finally

https://tenor.com/view/ronpaul-happening-excited-gif-4407969

[high swan]

Damn straight he put a ton of work and know how into this

[shadow tartan]

working on NEON GENESIS 1.1

testing out different leftover files and settings for SSAO

[shadow tartan]

main changes: rebased main env entirely (bartek_blue_dusk.env); changed SSAO with custom settings; lens flare saturation up to 2; chromatic aberration reduced but made even better (@high swan).

it's not included in that photo, let me see if I can get a good one with it

raster lighting is impressive (sandra booba)

bro

SSAO settings definitely pay off. The effect is a lot more noticeable now.

[high swan]

It's more subtle and better now I'll give you that

I am not entirely unreasonable

Is there CA along the bottom railing of the fence?

[shadow tartan]

bruz

it's not in that photo

[shadow tartan]

Bruh

Vanilla fucking sucks dude

I accidentally loaded in without NEON GENESIS

WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT

This photo has unbeatable vibes

[shadow tartan]

woah

blue dusk looks amazing

[shadow tartan]

NEON GENESIS 1.1 vs. NEON GENESIS 1.0 vs. Vanilla

[high swan]

which is vanilla out of those

is it in the order u said

[shadow tartan]

yes

another shot of 1.1

[high swan]

u have to show like

ppl like the screen wipe thing

or a gif or a side by side

or something

vs vanilla

gamers dont have calibrated monitors and shit bro

[shadow tartan]

1.1 rain

[shadow tartan]

raster, btw.

[high swan]

is this with the weather stuff

[shadow tartan]

no @high swan

probabilities will be the same

but weathers will be overhauled

[high swan]

Pog

[shadow tartan]

rain and fog (in that order)

[prisma minnow]

7/10 too much water

[shadow tartan]

1.1; working on clouds

GI and SSAO tweaks are delicious

gonna turn up silver lining and internal shadows for vol clouds, let's see how it looks

[shadow tartan]

GI changes are absolutely noticeable

not sure what I did to deserve amazingly soft shadows

[shadow tartan]

EXTREMELY satisfied with clouds

[prisma minnow]

nice, but what's going on with the grain there?

[shadow tartan]

messing with it

currently full intesnity

gonna try to derive the grain settings of the kodak vision3 250D negative mp film

[fierce stag]

is all this on raster? looks lush

[shadow tartan]

indeed it is!

i can't imagine how good it'd look with PT!

[fierce stag]

oh i bet!! my 3070ti is struggling to do RT so far tho 😭 thank you for supporting raster peeps!

[shadow tartan]

@fierce stag I can't run the game with RT anymore; so it's only natural.

[prisma minnow]

you got any more shots that show off GI changes?

[shadow tartan]

damn

you can see the grain changes

to me it looks hella genuine

[prisma minnow]

Reminds me of grain circa 1.03

[shadow tartan]

dude

[fierce stag]

yummy

need any testers

[shadow tartan]

as a matter of fact yes

i’ll upload here in like an hour or two

[fierce stag]

looking forward to it

[shadow tartan]

Ok people

remastered pollution weather with more hazy bloom plus thick sm/fog

[shadow tartan]

1.1 is codenamed Atacama now, because why the fuck not add codenames!

there's a real reason though, I get to make different projects for each ver

also filenames are easier to manage!

[fierce stag]

will test today!

[shadow tartan]

yeah I’m gonna make the codenames be regions and places in south america

[fierce stag]

looks pretty so far, anything in particular you want to test? e.g locations or weather

[shadow tartan]

clouds and light clouds is what i've worked on the most

[old bough]

@shadow tartan Your mod is god tier. I feel like a fan coming here to tell you, but seriously amazing work!

[shadow tartan]

I feel you. I've been driving through NC at night with Atacama and it feels like a whole new game

[fierce stag]

not sure if this was your doing but this weather is creepy AF

[shadow tartan]

yeah that's toxic rain, haven't touched that one

[fierce stag]

ah oops

[shadow tartan]

I think Atacama might be one of the best looking visual mods out there

[old bough]

This will install fine thru Vortex?

[shadow tartan]

don't use that one yet

sec

[old bough]

kk

[shadow tartan]

https://github.com/xtaltha/neon-genesis/releases/tag/v1.1.0-rc1

[old bough]

Sweeet

you da man

[shadow tartan]

gonna see if I can reconstruct SDR LUT from HDR LUT and see if it has any benefit to the look

[high swan]

Looks freaking sick mate

[high swan]

Highlights blown

[shadow tartan]

They look good this way

[high swan]

Granted it's a massive hot spot

[shadow tartan]

yeah

Clipping's alright if it's intentional, and this is

The image feels perfectly exposed to me

[high swan]

Clipping highlights my mortal enemy

[shadow tartan]

lol i guess the sun is your mortal enemy then

[high swan]

Grain is too fine imo!

[high swan]

This is wonderful

[shadow tartan]

You're right, but, gamers are gonna be pissed if it was more coarse

[high swan]

THEY WON'T EVEN KNOW

[shadow tartan]

still not over how beautiful the clouds make the game

[high swan]

You adding noise unnecessarily by having the grain so fine and it will mess up even more on really busy stuff imo

[high swan]

How did you do that

Like why do they look so more real

[shadow tartan]

silver lining, shadows, and scattering settings

[high swan]

Um

Have you seen the fallout new Vegas natural weather mod

You should talk to those guys imo

[shadow tartan]

it won't let me make the atmosphere this good though

Water is buggy because of cloud shadows

[high swan]

I don't know how much you can learn from another game engine but

That is one of most impressive weather mod I seen so far imo

[shadow tartan]

DNW is great

[prisma minnow]

You don't get anywhere near as much control with Cyberpunk vs a Bethesda game

[shadow tartan]

true, and Cyberpunk is a lot more advanced + has a totally different setting

[prisma minnow]

Plus they're able to mess with shaders, probably not something that will ever happen for this game

[shadow tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/mr-incredible-uncanny-mr-incredible-meme-mr-incredible-cube-gif-25223042

anyone up to test HDR???

[prisma minnow]

The closest there ever was for a CDPR game was BlitzFX

[shadow tartan]

W3 has something we don't have for 2077

env ui

https://tenor.com/view/patrick-bateman-gif-26282297

fuck it #1165044727553470565

need this, might as well put a bounty on it

haven't cashed out my DP in these 3 years

[prisma minnow]

Would be a godsend, hope someone takes you up on it 🙏

[shadow tartan]

hohohoho these GI changes

feel like the only time I've gotten such a moody photo is with PT

[high swan]

What is the implication of that and why not

[high swan]

Still maybe we can learn something? They just did a full rewrite of the mod

https://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/75437

They just uploaded it yesterday

IDK it's one of my favorite things to mod in any game since I feel like it adds so much and the vanilla weather systems get old really fast

Imo

[prisma minnow]

adding new effects to the game/further control over existing ones, can only do so much via env

[shadow tartan]

1. can't add effects that aren't already in the game, e.g. anamorphic flare
2. can't recompile the game nor have the tools to change it in other forms.

[high swan]

Oh

Um why not is that a dumb question

IDK anything

[shadow tartan]

only people who have those tools are CDPR themselves

[high swan]

Can you replace the existing flare

[prisma minnow]

I mean, it could be possible? BlitzFX did add things to TW3, but this is DX11 vs DX12

[shadow tartan]

now if they're good big boys and give us open-sourced REDengine before they abandon it; we could do it.

if only I could find source code to BlitzFX

[high swan]

I would unironically like to add an upscaled lens flare or a more cinematic or analog style one

[shadow tartan]

we can get a lot of info looking at the source leak but we can't distribute recompiled binaries

plus those would flat-out not work in any version other than like 1.1

[high swan]

Why

[shadow tartan]

because the source leak happened early 2021 lmfao

[high swan]

I just want cooler sharper higher resolution more saturated stylish flare

[shadow tartan]

also it's ILLEGAL

so

[prisma minnow]

tbf it was ahead in version compared to retail at the time

[high swan]

You gave me a new dream

[shadow tartan]

yeah visually

open source REDengine would solve many issues

only have to hope that CDPR does it

[high swan]

To make like very optically accurate very cool 70s lens flares

[shadow tartan]

yeah man

I wish I could

[high swan]

That are like correctly calculated for all the angles and lens coatings and lens elements

[shadow tartan]

but I told you why I can't

[high swan]

Ya but you gave me that dream now

[prisma minnow]

ReShade

[shadow tartan]

no HDR input

[high swan]

How can you do that in reshade

Idgi

[shadow tartan]

at least without addon

maybe if Marty lets me use fulcrum?

idk

that'd be the only way to get cool effects like this working; access to fulcrum

which isn't out yet anyway lmfao

[high swan]

This type of lens flare

[prisma minnow]

Might be the only way to do it without open source engine

[high swan]

Will be my dream

[shadow tartan]

bokeh lens flare

[high swan]

Not exactly but

[shadow tartan]

very nice

[high swan]

Ya

It's a certain lens I have that flares very beautifully

[shadow tartan]

they don't do that

they opted for anamorphic lens flare but not the normal one you see but rather the radial ones

so ghosts and halos, not the light flare

[shadow tartan]

that's not in the game for whatever reason despite the fact it could elevate it

[high swan]

You can literally see it will have a nice flare just by looking through the lens

[shadow tartan]

a high-quality anamorphic flare shader would go super hard in this game, undebatably

[high swan]

And a nice warm tone to the lens coating

[high swan]

Ya especially if there were more variations or detail to it

[shadow tartan]

proven by CDPR themselves because some lights actually do have an anamorphic sprite

I could go ahead and break my back adding it to all lights but I'd rather not, thanks

[prisma minnow]

edit all the lights in the game to use it

ok

[shadow tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/mr-incredible-uncanny-mr-incredible-meme-mr-incredible-cube-gif-25223042

[high swan]

There's some really cool lens flares out there

[shadow tartan]

these are all non-anamorphic lenses though

[high swan]

Non cinematic you mean?

[prisma minnow]

isn't it like the lens flares Mass Effect uses

[shadow tartan]

the most cinematic

watch any cinemascope film (and I mean actual cinemascope; not just the ratio) and you'll see what I'm talking about

the vertical bokeh, radial flare, swirl, barrel distortion

all characteristics of a good anamorphic lens

can't forget the long horizontal light flare

[prisma minnow]

looking for cinemascope films

[shadow tartan]

PERFECT one for this is La La Land

they use the same negative film stock that the LUT in NEON GENESIS is emulating

you can tell with how they handle reds and blues identically

[high swan]

Oh ya

IDK

They depend on the era

[prisma minnow]

huh, a lot of movies I know were cinemascope. shows how observant I am!

[shadow tartan]

Shit

my VLC just broke????

[prisma minnow]

I use PotPlayer

[shadow tartan]

it's not open source

means I can't verify how exactly the tone mapper works

Not good

[prisma minnow]

[shadow tartan]

lookie here

what the fuck?

dammit

it saved the HLG version

ok

good enough I guess

look at the red! it's exactly like how NEON GENESIS handles it

exact type of flare we need!

also generally the film is graded wonderfully, I really want to get the game looking like this

also EXACTLY how I want dusk to look in NEON GENESIS

also

always remember

if you're using VLC

set the renderer to OpenGL and these settings

[prisma minnow]

getting those colors would be something

[shadow tartan]

I'd recommend using the BT.2407 if VLC had full libplacebo capabilities, but it doesn't

(which is weird because videolan makes both projects)

Reinhard with full desat looks great (don't use zero or anything in-between, 1.0 is how Reinhard should be applied)

[prisma minnow]

I'm not too familiar with VLC these days, does it/these settings also do HDR to SDR, etc? Or is this purely SDR?

[shadow tartan]

HDR to SDR

I always... """get""" my movies on my PC 4k HDR

[high swan]

Bad flare imo

[shadow tartan]

gives me best quality honestly

[high swan]

This movie looks obnoxious

[high swan]

There's actually a lot of fancy tweaking you can do in VLC if you get into it

[high swan]

This movie looks obnoxious

[prisma minnow]

I'm used to PotPlayer/MadVR so I've not really looked at VLC lately

[prisma minnow]

you look obnoxious

[shadow tartan]

yeah honestly

[high swan]

[shadow tartan]

this is wonderful

if it's obnoxius idgaf

[prisma minnow]

yeah I don't know much but I do think it looks good

[shadow tartan]

also, look at bottom-left, that's the radial flare of anamorphic lenses that the game already has

[prisma minnow]

oh shit

[shadow tartan]

now, what I want is those light flares

[high swan]

Too cold

[shadow tartan]

morning is right

[high swan]

Too modern style lens flare

[shadow tartan]

[high swan]

[prisma minnow]

I'm not a film guy so I'm just going off of how it looks

[high swan]

Too blue too subtle too soft edges too modern

[prisma minnow]

Maybe there's some 10,000 word reddit thread that would make me change my mind idk

[high swan]

It's just too cold it's deliberately graded in stylized cold color way imo that's not to my taste

But I'm a big film nerd

[prisma minnow]

Well, what's something you do like?

[high swan]

https://youtu.be/5kPktOYFyLA?si=1cvkO66ZO_q1Jqep

[shadow tartan]

I especially love the red-blue contrasts in the movie, it's something I want to replicate

Maybe one day I make an actual lighting mod

and by that I mean go into sectors and change light values

[high swan]

https://youtu.be/h7fXWeN_3Ro?si=ig1chlZvQ6anTIFX

A good American one is The Outlaw Josey Wales

[prisma minnow]

how many sectors are there again

[high swan]

https://vxtwitter.com/FilmPhonic/status/1683113042496634880?t=k5K327ZmlAu0QslZJ0McdQ&s=19

https://youtu.be/YamCr3qhPts?feature=shared

This is a cool compilation but doesn't have my favorite old lenses in it

[shadow tartan]

Ran by Kurosawa has pretty good color work

[high swan]

Pretty good?!

[shadow tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/mr-incredible-uncanny-mr-incredible-meme-mr-incredible-cube-gif-25223042

[high swan]

It's outstanding

One of best tbh

Especially the early shots

[shadow tartan]

it has a similar highly-saturated style as La La Land though, idk why you get it

has the perfect subtractive saturation of a similar film stock

[prisma minnow]

I am seeing that but La La Land still stands on its own

I'm not seeing what's so much worse or anything

[shadow tartan]

yeah me neither, but yeah enough dreaming

we can't add any of these things yet

[high swan]

Lol it's subjective

Especially about this

[shadow tartan]

it's gonna be a while (unless psiberx actually makes that env UI) before I get even that perfect dusk going on

[high swan]

It's not BADLY color graded

It's just not my taste

[shadow tartan]

definitely mine

[high swan]

I love stuff like this

[shadow tartan]

I love subtractive saturation

[high swan]

Very filmic

[shadow tartan]

I love subtractive saturation so much it's insane

[high swan]

Warm film tones

[shadow tartan]

Crazy, even

[high swan]

This kind of 80s lens flare could be cool

Bc cyberpunk, 80s

IDK

[shadow tartan]

I think it's why I despise AgX honestly

[prisma minnow]

I can't see it's so tiny

[high swan]

Stuff like that

[shadow tartan]

because it says it's silver halide when it:

1. doesn't simulate actual film range
2. emulates optical color range
3. has a ridiculous amount of crosstalk
4. is super low contrast

[prisma minnow]

oh close encounters

[shadow tartan]

sobotka do I really have to tell you most good film has none of those things?

you're better off using a film emulation plugin for your output instead of AgX

just export your blender renders in log or exr sequences and plug it into DaVinci

use dehancer and done

🤑

[high swan]

Ya that's a big lens flare movie lol

[shadow tartan]

warmth is great and all but what's better is cold and warm contrast

[shadow tartan]

do you get what I'm talking about?? this is beautiful!

[high swan]

IDK I tend to really like 70s warm film tones like 35mm Kodak portra as you know or medium format

[prisma minnow]

What's a sci-fi that you would say has good color grading? I'm curious

[high swan]

Too dark

[high swan]

Just looks normal

[shadow tartan]

what if I told you this was on purpose

surprised you didn't say too cold

[high swan]

I was about to but I saw a little bit of warmth

It's really just different aesthetic preferences

[shadow tartan]

true

[high swan]

I have no nostalgia for the fucking 70s lol I wasn't even born

But the optics and stuff from around that time and certain 80s stuff I just adore

[prisma minnow]

because you should have nostalgia for the 80s

ah there we go

[shadow tartan]

i.e. Baba got a """bug report""" about his color crosstalk being too high, while he was reasonable saying that he's just simulating the look of 80's cels on film

They compared GITS to NEON GENESIS and called an artistic difference a bug

pretty stupid

[high swan]

Ya like

[shadow tartan]

[high swan]

There's some objective aspects

Like skin tone

Certain kind of lights should look a certain way

Stuff like that

Red sweater

IDK

I would die for a lens flare like this maybe a bit more embellished in cyberpunk

[prisma minnow]

looks like a bug to me!

[shadow tartan]

but that's normal lens flares

[high swan]

Ya

[shadow tartan]

not the anamorphic type

[high swan]

I don't really like anamorphic lens flares

[shadow tartan]

I want anamorphism

[high swan]

Now that I look at them

A few I like but mostly not

[shadow tartan]

since CDPR went half-assed, i gotta do it full measured

[high swan]

They remind JJ Abrams cgi lens flare barrage

[shadow tartan]

yeah he ruined it

[prisma minnow]

hey, JJ is a visionary

[high swan]

This type is more cool to me it's not really cinematic per se

But it's just aesthetic nice pleasing

When you drive in and out of the sunset for example it will looking so pretty

Not that big as that one

[prisma minnow]

cinematic is better than cool

[high swan]

It's hard to explain unless you know optics but

When you walk in and out of the direct sun like that it's sooooo pretty and cool and pleasing

I'm mega nerdy about this like pretty much nobody else so

But ya we have plenty of anamorphic lens flare

Too much

It's not got that nice full warmness of nice film and stuff

IDK

I just love it

[prisma minnow]

anamorphism go brr

[high swan]

https://youtu.be/sFZjqVnWBhc?si=OzETAILuTbuBgA6g

This is cool too

The like 70s pointed star look lol

A bit much but

Would be cool to have in a game at some point lol

That's one for your new cyber drugs mod lol

[shadow tartan]

Atacama might not release today

Realized a HUGE issue that will take quite a bit to fix

[prisma minnow]

what's the issue

[high swan]

when l.x

or w/e it called

me want

[shadow tartan]

it’ll be your christmas present

[prisma minnow]

is this right

[shadow tartan]

didn’t change that weather; must be ini changes

[meager zinc]

Do you (or anyone) know how the weather is controlled in dogtown? The env's from ep1 doesn't seem to do anything, it's always the same cycle.

[shadow tartan]

I do, Dogtown visual settings seem to be controlled by a master envparam, and have the weather envparams layered atop

so it goes

1. master_env_ep1_v006.env (from base)
2. master_env_ep1_ow_trigger_v006.envparam (from ep1)
3. Weather envparams (from master_env_ep1_v006)

[meager zinc]

I'm sorry, i should have been more specific. Not talking about the visual settings but weather probabilities, transitions etc. and these are completely ignored from master_env_ep1_v006.env and master_env_ep1_v005.env.

[shadow tartan]

Don't seem that way to me

[meager zinc]

So your NC weather cycle works in dogtown based on master_env_ep1_v006.env? I do get the exact same cycle when skipping time, no rain or anything else besides sunny during day and some fog on dawn. Maybe it's story progress dependant then or idk.

[shadow tartan]

@meager zinc you try resetting your cycle with weathermancer?

also, whenever the day starts, the game seems to pre-determine the cycle no matter what

so skip to midnight a few times and then try again :D

[meager zinc]

Good point, i have not. I'll try this

[shadow tartan]

also try using immersive timeskip; that just messes with dilation so you get the transitions working like it should

[meager zinc]

Yeah, already using this

[shadow tartan]

plus go hour-by-hour and shake your camera a bit

or turn around; this way the vol fog clears

[meager zinc]

Oh my god that was it, it just was bugged. I really should have tried this first. Thanks for your time anyway

[shadow tartan]

https://www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk2077/mods/9433 It is done.

[high swan]

I'm Jewish

[shadow tartan]

well

for the first day of hanukkah @high swan

[high swan]

How far off is it from being done realistically

Nobody is more excited than me for it I hope you realize

[shadow tartan]

Pretty far, haven't started, not gonna

Want to take it easy for a bit

[high swan]

Yeah I understand

[shadow tartan]

Atacama was stressful

It was relatively easy; but I'm tired.

[high swan]

I'm just excited it looks like all I've ever wanted

I know

The feel after putting out a big mod

Yr doing good work lad

[shadow tartan]

well hold me to first day of hanukkah @high swan

if I miss it, it'll be sometime in the eight days

[high swan]

Try for a Hanukkah miracle

[shadow tartan]

thanksgiving gift for you will be realcolorr 3

[valid escarp]

Well lore-wise, it's supposed to be acidic rain, I think

[shadow tartan]

acid rain looks like rain; that's what's dangerous about it in the first place lmfao

[valid escarp]

Oh, lmao

I didn't know that

[shadow tartan]

if it really looked very different, I imagine you just... wouldn't go outside that day

but, no, it does look very similar if not identical to normal rain

[high swan]

Acid rain is real

It's not like the literal acid rain that exists on Venus

It's like toxic industrial chemicals evaporating into clouds then raining back down on us

God punishing us with our own toxic poisons for sullying the beauty of the nature He gifted us in His infinite wisdom

[shadow tartan]

so

seems like the flares are added via the objects ent

means I can add it to a lot of them at bulk

[shadow tartan]

I wonder if I can get permission from Baba to make a patch/version of GITS with improvements from NEON GENESIS, e.g. bloom

[shadow tartan]

GITS layout is pretty fucking complex, I commend Baba for being able to work with it

[prisma minnow]

what's even missing lens flare anyway

hm, speaking of lens flares, what about the effect/mt files they seem to have?

[shadow tartan]

...any point light I can get my hands on basically

[shadow tartan]

ents reference effects, which reference particles, which reference mts which reference shaders which reference textures

[prisma minnow]

yeah, don't know much about those lmao, and I really haven't seen many people mess with them, still, seems there might be things of interest here, there's an effect called ep1_trailer_only_flare, so I wonder if it could be made to work elsewhere

distant fog has an mt that I tried messing with once, seemingly did nothing

[prisma minnow]

don't want to clutter things, so, someone who knows what they're doing could probably wring something out of these, fake_flare.mt looks to control "anamorphic" flares, but nothing seems to make any obvious use of... whatever this is

[shadow tartan]

replaced bloom settings with anam flare by myself

this looks almost just like a real anam lens

[prisma minnow]

how the f

[meager pine]

Damn that looks incredible

[high swan]

can u translate to dumb guy please

thanks

[shadow tartan]

No

[high swan]

ok jj abrams

bit strong aren't they

[shadow tartan]

not as noticeable as you think

that shot is to show them off lol

[high swan]

im just teasing

so

u CAN do custom lens flares...?

https://tenor.com/view/u-unlimited-power-star-wars-lightning-gif-14542323

[prisma minnow]

Saw your post regarding scattering, ain't no way

[shadow tartan]

it's true

it's placebo

anyways thinking of making an offshoot LUT mod for neon genesis called noir genesis

b/w focused for screenshots

maybe for halloween

[hexed urchin]

I remember testing that code like a year ago and we actually thought it did something.

Kind of a shame it doesn't actually, the E3 light scattering was majorly cool.

[shadow tartan]

CDPR did everything off when making the 2.0 and PL env 😭

they made bloom vertical to make it """anamorphic""" and I followed suit

I now know that anamorphism's unsqueezing of the img makes it so loads of lens artifacts are squeezed horizontally; bokeh being the only real exception

so bloom should be horizontal

not flare though, this is notable

because I have just made the most realistic looking post-processing on earth

zoom in and look at the grain!!

it's perfect

@high swan revise this

[high swan]

Hard too tell bc of the shot being grey and limited color palate as well as having some noisy areas

Like I think it's JPEG artifact noise and not noise you intended to be there 😂

[shadow tartan]

Wrong! It looks good! Wrong!

[high swan]

I was talking about the image itself not your mod lol

If you're asking what I would I'd say it could be very slightly (like legit +1, +2) more saturated and contrasty, as well as maybe bigger grain but that's also just generally my personal preference to have bigger grain

But it would alleviate some of the noise in the darker areas especially in a screenshot

But I think you also wanted this one to be more flat so

[hexed urchin]

real

this will be cyborpank in 2014

[shadow tartan]

💯💯💯💯💯💯

[hexed urchin]

Does look good though in all seriousness

Still, I'm a big believer in E3 supremacy

[prisma minnow]

deep dive supremacy

[hexed urchin]

its ok

We're going to make R18 Great Again

Nah but seriously Neon Genesis is pretty impressive

[prisma minnow]

I'm not really a deep dive supremacist I'm just being quirky, don't have a spoon though

And yeah it's its own thing that isn't E3

[hexed urchin]

Yeah ik I was just kidding around

Plus I sorta pray null helps that E3 lighting mod out with the stuff he learned from Neon because it could be very pog

I still need to test out Neon more though, haven't used it much

[prisma minnow]

I think Null wants to move on from E3, let it go

[hexed urchin]

Nah he said differently in his comments on Neon

but it's obviously up to him idc either way, I'll still use and test this mod all the same

[prisma minnow]

Ah I see, wants to do his own spin on it

[hexed urchin]

Yeah exactly

like 2018 but better

or nullified ig

which I'd like because I think null has a peak eye for aesthetics

[prisma minnow]

Yep, can't go wrong

Though essenthy too is doing good

[hexed urchin]

Yeah ofc not trying to dunk on essenthy

essenthy is going for full accuracy but like I said I think it would be cool to see how null can take full accuracy and then make it even more visually appealing

could have 2018 but better

[prisma minnow]

blasphemy

[hexed urchin]

[prisma minnow]

Nah but I do want to see how far Cyberpunk can be pushed, and Null is at the top of that game so far

Only really have like 3 active lighting mods for Cyberpunk, TW3 had a new one every other Tuesday it seemed

[hexed urchin]

true

TW3 had better E3 lighting too

CDPR moment

game went from total grit to extreme vibrancy

probably why Cyberpunk and TW3 have so many lighting mods

[prisma minnow]

yeah CDPR always completely pivots on lighting rather than finding like a balance or something

[hexed urchin]

At least with Cyberpunk it was more understandable because they hired a third party to do the lighting

TW3 just got changed for seemingly no reason

That stuff inspires people to make the game look better

[prisma minnow]

I think 2018 had to be mostly them in regards to lighting, third party was necessary to get the game even out probably

[hexed urchin]

True

[prisma minnow]

Current lighting can clearly be worked with obviously, but it still has all the same issues it had at launch, with only PT fixing them

[hexed urchin]

real

I noticed ever since 2.0 the shadow bugs are atrocious

Like this is all over the game now

[prisma minnow]

Tbh it does seem to be more prone to glitching now

[hexed urchin]

Yeah idk it almost seems like 2.0 was made on an older build which they tried to retroactively fix.

[prisma minnow]

That area in Northside with the new car was missing the bake entirely, not sure if they fixed that in 2.01

[hexed urchin]

[prisma minnow]

And I'm not sure what they're going to be fixing as support is wrapping up

[hexed urchin]

Yeah it's hard to enjoy lighting mods when you have vanilla issues like that.

It's pretty bad, game needs like 5 more patches at least

[prisma minnow]

Well that's why we have PT

[hexed urchin]

screams in 2080ti and i9

[prisma minnow]

The regular RT is on "good enough" ground for me, despite being kind of downgraded/sidegraded from launch, but it doesn't fix any of the bugs in regards to the GI bake

And has its own new bugs now, with skin and shadows in general

[hexed urchin]

I just play with RT reflections

everything else causes it's own issues

RT shadows causes pixelated shadows

[prisma minnow]

I don't want to clutter the thread too much, but this is a decent comparsion of old RT (from launch to 1.2) vs the current RT

old is left and right is new

[hexed urchin]

I can for sure see the changes

how's Neon with RT?

[prisma minnow]

Even outdoor scenes were different, but some of that you might be able to chalk to env changes

[hexed urchin]

Damn weird. Misty's looks a lot better in the old patch

has more depth

[prisma minnow]

last one

But yeah they made a lot of changes that I'm not the biggest fan of, the new reflections are an improvement at least, old reflections don't have as much detail as what we have now

[hexed urchin]

true

I get where you're coming from though yeah, it seems they changed some weird stuff

[prisma minnow]

I'll blame PS4/XB1

[hexed urchin]

50% of this games problems are because of those consoles

[hexed urchin]

2.0 is SO AWESOME!

Your talk about lighting changes left out the most crucial change, the triangle shadows

[prisma minnow]

This probably isn't so much on CDPR as it is on the mod

[hexed urchin]

Nah I tried it vanilla too

and with Neon

that bug happens everywhere now, at least in my game

[prisma minnow]

In my case, I've only seen these more obvious glitches with Cyberlighting

[hexed urchin]

I uninstalled all my mods and checked and it was still there so idk

[prisma minnow]

PT makes them vanish, so it's probably still an issue with the lighting bake, but it isn't impossible Cyberlighting makes it more frequent. Not to crap on the guy, just speculating. He does edit world sectors.

[hexed urchin]

lemme test with neon again

[hexed urchin]

Yep, happens with neon too

Only PT fixes it

[prisma minnow]

well ok then

[hexed urchin]

PT may as well be a requirement to play this game at this point. Lighting is entirely broken otherwise.

[prisma minnow]

wonder if mods can fix this cause I'm not sure CDPR is

I suppose turning off GI would also fix it but that's not much of a solution

[hexed urchin]

It was a lot better before patch 2.0

it happened it some places but not nearly as bad

it's like they only tested the patch with PT on

[prisma minnow]

Not impossible

[hexed urchin]

damn this is pretty tho

[prisma minnow]

until you see some triangles

[hexed urchin]

mhm exactly and then I lose all immersion and remember this is cyberpunk

[prisma minnow]

hm, wonder where you'd even start in trying to fix this, find the affected world sectors, maybe?

[hexed urchin]

If I knew I'd fix it myself

Like I said, it was a lot better before 2.0 but even then it still happened in certain locations like the kabuki market stairwell

[prisma minnow]

hmm

I wonder if the GI pass RT Psycho does is tied into the general setting

My thought: disable GI, see if RT Psycho GI pass still works

[hexed urchin]

Seems RT psycho fixes it too

[prisma minnow]

Wait what

[hexed urchin]

Yeah

[prisma minnow]

[hexed urchin]

I think they only tested the game with RT on

[prisma minnow]

Uh, does RT Ultra lighting fix it?

[hexed urchin]

Yes

[prisma minnow]

Medium?

[hexed urchin]

Yeah

[prisma minnow]

okay I'm sorry but how

what the fuck

[hexed urchin]

RED ENGINE

[prisma minnow]

In my experience no amount of RT fixes broken spots in the lighting bake, only PT

Yet on your end it somehow does

[hexed urchin]

[prisma minnow]

RT lighting at Medium shouldn't even affect lighting enough to "fix" anything

[hexed urchin]

that's so fucking weird lmao

[prisma minnow]

Is it fixed if you turn RT off and change some random graphics setting elsewhere?

Maybe that does it? Idk

[hexed urchin]

nope

turning off RT makes it come back, changing other settings doesn't do anything

raytraced lighting turned off but with other RT features on also makes the bug stay

only turning RT lighting on fixes it

[prisma minnow]

I don't know what to say

[hexed urchin]

pro CDPR coding

[prisma minnow]

Ah fuck the patch is dropping today

[hexed urchin]

rip my modlist

[prisma minnow]

Probably gonna break Cyberlighting too, essenthy has more work cut out for him

[hexed urchin]

I bet you 100 eddies that they won't fix the lighting bug I just had