PHILOSOPHY CHANNEL

[dense bane]

yea :))

[sullen comet]

ehh not really
some people can be so used to feeling depressed or sad for a long period of time that they enjoy being in that state of mind despite it being mind corrupting

[weak horizon]

yeah i know some ppl like that. But they also believe that's what makes them happy.. to be in that state

which, i mean we could argue about if that's normal or not, but it's how they feel.

[ornate hazel]

I mean sure not all progress really needs suffering but the deeper more meaningful kinds usually do. Sure some things come easy but tbh the most valuable growth like resilience wisdom or strength comes from struggle. Without suffering progress might exist but it would lack depth. Also just comparing your current state to your past one doesn’t fully define progress. Progress isn’t just moving forward it’s overcoming something. If everything was always easy improvement would feel empty because there’d be nothing to really push against

[dense bane]

thats intersting , but i agree

[weak horizon]

idk, feels like that only applies if you are being selective with what you call meaningful.

[dense bane]

top 10 in the world

ok top 100 is too

top 1000 isnt bad

[weak horizon]

learning a language comes to my mind, most languages you can learn doesn't require suffering or struggle. And some relatively easier than other. Yet it can still feel rewarding, and it is meaningful.
Languages allow you to communicate with others, and understand other cultures better. So i wouldn't say it's meaningless.

But again it comes down to what is meaningful to you or not.

[dense bane]

i think is not easy u have to struggle a bit sometimes

i belive is fun , but not all the time

[weak horizon]

depends on the language

[dense bane]

matter ?

[weak horizon]

yes, because some are harder to learn than others

but even the hard ones i wouldn't see it as a struggle. Depends on your mindset. If you are motivated and dedicated, it won't feel as a struggle. It's just a matter of time and memorizing.

[dense bane]

i belive all of them have hard things

[dense bane]

when u dont see the progress ?

isnt a struggle to push ?

[grizzled venture]

Like English for example is pretty easy to learn

[dense bane]

to learn , to study how to learn

[weak horizon]

what do you mean don't see the progress?

you always progress, even if you only learned one word in a day. Or if you only learned one grammar rule in a day.

[dense bane]

when ur skills improve very slow

[weak horizon]

it's normal that it slows down the more you know

[dense bane]

or the results of ur work are not very diff than was 2 months ago

[weak horizon]

and slow or small progress is still progress.

[dense bane]

yes

but u know u see others who are 2 times faster than u

[weak horizon]

i don't care about others lol

[weak horizon]

that's none of my business how others speak the language i learn. It should not matter for my learning experience or progress.

[grizzled venture]

And that's the best thing you can do ngl

[weak horizon]

i don't compare my progress to how others do it, it isn't a competition

[dense bane]

but if ur progress is bad , maybe ur doing something wrong ?

maybe u can ask others with insane progress

idk

[weak horizon]

that really depends on you how you want to learn a language

[dense bane]

ok i talk in general , about any skill

[weak horizon]

i can set goals and a pace for myself where i would hardly meet those goals.

but i can also set goals that i can meet easily

[dense bane]

if the easy goals are hard :c

[weak horizon]

i just brought up an example where Casss's rule of "there is no progress without suffering or struggle" doesn't apply.

it will only apply to some things, and it won't for others

[dense bane]

u know for 5% better u have to work months

[weak horizon]

and it also heavily depends on each person

so it isn't really a general rule that applies everywhere and for everyone

[dense bane]

but sometimes u have to push and study hard

[weak horizon]

if that's what you want to do, sure

[dense bane]

and moments when u feel bad

[weak horizon]

you can also decide not to push to study hard and just take it easy

[dense bane]

u cant progress without practice

[weak horizon]

and practice isn't necessarily a struggle

[dense bane]

and sometimes that practice dont geves u the best results

[weak horizon]

and?

[dense bane]

no , i like the practice , i hate the slow progress

[weak horizon]

i don't see your point 🤷‍♂️

[dense bane]

feels bad

[weak horizon]

we both can make up scenarios where we can make progress easy or hard

i don't deny that it can be hard and a struggle

what i'm saying is that it's not always true and not for everyone

[dense bane]

i talk about moments when is hard

and u want to progress

is bit of struggle

[weak horizon]

okay

[dense bane]

i agree

[weak horizon]

that still won't make it true

[dense bane]

it can be , and is sometimes

[weak horizon]

what i meant it's not true in general

[dense bane]

for most of ppl is

[weak horizon]

well that's on them

🤷‍♂️

if people choose a hard life, go for it

[dense bane]

life is easy

we make it hard

[weak horizon]

yes

many things could be easy we just make it complicated

[dense bane]

i keep it simple

but i still feel sad when i dont have the progress

maybe is my problem

[weak horizon]

if you are not satisfied and feel sad, then you need to change something.

[dense bane]

i will keep doing no matter what

like not if im feel bit sad

[dense bane]

to be more rational

[weak horizon]

not telling you to stop whatever it is you are doing. But change something in a way, so that you don't feel sad about it.

feeling sad about not making enough progress could be just a mindset problem

[dense bane]

it can be

[dense bane]

i will , i need a free day

with nothing to do

to think about that

[ornate hazel]

Ah that's true

It's subjective really

[pastel forum]

Essentially, no definition or description can exist without its opposite. It cannot
exist in a vacuum. A person cannot be "good" unless you know what "bad" is.
Yoga says God's essential nature is joy. For God to experience his own joy, the
relative world is necessary. Without the world of opposites, God would not be
able to experience his/her nature. There would only be void, shunya. This is the
difference between the Hindu and Buddhist concept of God. Hindus say God is
Joy and Consciousness. Buddhists say the Ultimate Reality is Void. They are both
correct. They are two sides of the same coin. God is Joy and Consciousness,
but without the relative world, the illusion, God is Void.

[dense bane]

intersting point

[pastel forum]

copied this text from a book

i had read in past

[dense bane]

ah lol

i thought was u

[dense bane]

thats cool

[grizzled venture]

I mean I got your point, but I still believe that there can be good without bad

Like God can exist without Devil

[pastel forum]

u can't see doesn't mean that doesn't exist

[grizzled venture]

Huh?

[dense bane]

it can

[pastel forum]

in simple i mean there are things exist that we can't see

[grizzled venture]

Yeah, I know

[ember tulip]

Compare the "Knowledge of Good and Evil" and "the advancement of social media itself that correlates with the technological advancement"

[ancient wharf]

very interesting video i found

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLsElgfhZtM

based on Ibn Sina's research https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_of_the_Truthful

@ornate hazel

even Thomas Aquinas (author of the link ankles gave) took ideas from his research

[wanton lava]

REALLY??????

[weak horizon]

yeah, my paralysis demons are real.

has anyone here had "sleeping paralysis" experience?

[grizzled venture]

Nope

[jade star]

I had that happen to me once

I remember trynna get out of bed and just not going anywhere

To be fair it happened when i had meds for sleep

[ancient wharf]

yup

alot

[weak horizon]

for me it happened many times 11 years ago

but then i learned how to deal with it

Now it happens rarely and for very short time, as now i know how to make it go away. But now i even enjoy it and let it happen sometimes 😄

[ancient wharf]

my brother experiences it pretty much everyday

i get jumpscared in sleep

not a pleasent experience

[weak horizon]

damn, i wonder how it looks from an outside perspective

like, witnessing someone having it

it was scary when it happened to me and i didn't know what it was and what to do.

[ancient wharf]

he randomly wakes up from sleep shouting and screaming God's name

and one time he gained consciousness

[weak horizon]

but really, once you learn how to deal with it, it won't be as bad

[ancient wharf]

and told me that he saw some black thing flying in the air

personally, when i experience it, i tend to keep my eyes closed

helps alot for me

[weak horizon]

✝️

[weak horizon]

i had visions too, or hallucination whatever you want to call it

[ancient wharf]

yea things like that

[weak horizon]

there are many angles to this... anomaly. Not just a medical side of it but a spiritual one too

[ancient wharf]

weird things happen

[ancient wharf]

yeah there is a thing in Islam about it

[weak horizon]

as it is a far older thing than the medical term for it

also in fact, all my paralysis experiences happened to me when i was awake, never asleep

i was still awake as they happened

[ancient wharf]

thats odd

[pastel forum]

Inner demon is best example I can give

[ancient wharf]

it happens to me when im like about to sleep

[weak horizon]

yes, same

[grizzled venture]

Never happened to me

[weak horizon]

when i go to bed and get ready to sleep, but i didn't fall asleep yet

[jade star]

Mine was when i was about to awake

[pastel forum]

So ur saying u never did anything bad?

[weak horizon]

i think it's the state when you are in between sleep and awake state

[ancient wharf]

yeah exactly

[weak horizon]

so, you are conscious of it

but your body didn't really keep up with your brain yet

[grizzled venture]

Of course I did

But it was never hunting me in my dreams or anything like that

[pastel forum]

Not talking about dreams

[weak horizon]

hmm, to me it happened during a time when i felt conflicted with myself.

mainly my feelings for me and certain other people

[grizzled venture]

I mean yeah, we were talking about sleeping paralysis

[pastel forum]

I'm not

[jade star]

Cant recall my state back then but the mental was terrible

[pastel forum]

It's not like ur gonna see demons in ur dreams lol

[grizzled venture]

In that case I have no idea what you are talking about lol

[weak horizon]

and also, you can very much manifest it. When you are about to go to sleep, and you are worried that it will happen. It will most likely happen.

[pastel forum]

Like sometimes we talk to ourself

[grizzled venture]

I mean some people definitely have it like that

[weak horizon]

i was not comfortable talking about this to my friend because they were pretty scary experiences, that i hardly understood at the time. And i didn't want them to manifest it as well, and be afraid that it will happen to them.

[weak horizon]

well... not in your dreams, but awake

i did see

[pastel forum]

U saw a demon

In real life???

[weak horizon]

demon angel, call it whatever you want, it was a vision

i was awake and i saw things

[pastel forum]

Maybe ur Illusion

[weak horizon]

i will tell my stories a later i'm a bit busy now, have to do some chores

sure, you can call it illusion hallucination as i said earlier

but there is a reason why people refer to SP demons

because many of us experienced it.

it doesn't mean they are real though, i don't believe in them

it's just our brain playing a trick with us

[pastel forum]

Sp demon?

[weak horizon]

sleeping paralysis demon

[pastel forum]

Never had sleeping paralysis

Demons are scared of me

[weak horizon]

good

[jade star]

Interested to hear them

[dense bane]

what ?

[weak horizon]

Will tell the strangest.
I was staying at a flat and was getting ready to sleep. In the flat there was also an old lady sleeping, it was her house.
I was laying on my chest and facing the door as the paralysis started, the door was only open by an inch it was not locked. I could not move, hard breathing, could hardly open my eyes, that was pretty much the usual experience i had around that time.
As i was facing the door, the door started opening, and an old lady in white dress walked in, the dress was glowing a little bit, it was bright. This lady that walked in kinda looked like the lady that was sleeping in the flat. She started walking towards me -the whole time i'm struggling to move or do anything, but i didn't really feel scared, only to the fact that i couldn't move- and when she gets to me she touches me with her hand, and all of sudden the paralysis went away i was able to move and sit up. The door was still only open by an inch and there was no one in the room. The lady in the flat was sleeping for a while, she didn't leave her room.

another one.
i was getting ready to sleep, again laying on my chest side when it started, facing towards the door. The paralysis started, I could not move, hard breathing, could hardly open my eyes, same as usual. But this time i felt on my back as if someone or something was moving their hand down on my back and my legs, just gently. Couldn't see behind me as i couldn't turn my head, could open my eyes a little bit, and my room had a bit of orange light like a filter.
After few minutes of struggle it went away and everything was normal, i didn't see my room in orange anymore.

Stationary shadows i have always seen since i was a kid pretty often. But as i got older that went away. When i started having those paralysis experiences it started happening again. Either seeing shadow figures on top of cabinet or desk or at the door.

then i did some reading what am i dealing with and learned how to get out of it easily.

[coarse glade]

do you give compliments to people that at the same time self deprecate you?
<@&1305977291695718462>

[stone osprey]

no, I block them usually

[jade star]

So you weren't scared at all during it

[jade star]

I would insult them back or kill them with kindness

[coarse glade]

no

i mean

[sullen comet]

depends on the intention

but if anything, i just block

[coarse glade]

say you give a compliment "i think it's really cool how you do that"
do you or do you not add
"i could never do that"?

@sullen comet

@stone osprey

@jade star

so you're the one giving the compliment

and youre the one that makes yourself seem bad

[jade star]

Ohh ok wait now i understand

Why the fuck would i do that

[coarse glade]

idk

[ancient wharf]

i would not do that

[jade star]

Just take the compliment

If people go out of their way to notice something you are good at

Take it at face value

[coarse glade]

you still don't get it 😭

[jade star]

Wait

Now i see

[weak horizon]

I wasn't scared of what i saw. Just the fact that i couldn't move or do anything. At that time i didn't really know what was i dealing with, so that's why it was scary.

[coarse glade]

"When giving compliments to others, do you ever simultaneously make self-deprecating remarks about yourself?"

[jade star]

Sometimes but i dont think it changes the power

[weak horizon]

ahh, compliment others but you think of yourself less or worse than that other person or others

[jade star]

It could be used as a way to gain sympathy

[coarse glade]

you outwardly say the compliment and the self deprecating remark in the same sentence

[jade star]

Like a natural response to that would be oh you arent so bad

[weak horizon]

self-esteem is what you are talking about

having low self-esteem while complimenting others

which can be okay, but also can be bad. Depending on how bad your self-esteem is

and also do you let that self-esteem make you feel sad, depressed even? Or it's rather a motivation to be better?

[ornate hazel]

Why would you?

Just give them a compliment no need to self deprecate

[jade star]

Doing this is either a way to improve your compliment or you wanna force a emotional response

[weak horizon]

it can be positive and negative, depending on how you process it, and how is your mindset.

[coarse glade]

i dont think its self esteem, more like a factual difference;
imagine me and a friend uni
she is always focussed on her homework for hours
i say
"wow thats really admirable, i could never do that"

[coarse glade]

i 100% mean it as a compliment but at the same time want them to know a part of me better i think

[jade star]

You can say it differently

Generalise it

[coarse glade]

i can just cut out the "i could never do that"

keep the focus on them

[jade star]

And say not many people can do that

[coarse glade]

yeah thats a good one
which also doesnt pull the attention to me

either way i'm glad i realised ive been doing this
now i can cut it out and improve as a person and friend

[weak horizon]

yeah that can be a bad habit if you do it often. You need to notice if it becomes a habit, and if yes, ask yourself why.

some people do it intentionally, some unintentionally but still becomes a habit

probably because they need help in some way

[jade star]

Sure thing man wish you luck

[atomic viper]

Shit convos move fast here

[sullen comet]

i just say "i try" or "thanks" lol

[coarse glade]

still not what i mean

sorry

[sullen comet]

ohh

idk then

😭

[weak horizon]

https://tenor.com/view/pat-cat-pat-pat-gif-25250101

[coarse glade]

do you think it is morally right to eat meat? a living thing that was born to be killed and eaten by humans.
<@&1305977291695718462>

[ancient wharf]

yes

you didnt have things like lab grown meat and vegan alternatives back then

so, yes

[burnt tartan]

Yes as it is the way of life, and you disrupt that way by not consuming meat. (By you, I mean all of human-king. One person not eating meat isn't a big deal)

The food web exists and without it, the structure of life crumbles. Not to say humans not eating it is going to mess it up, but organism do need to die to feed other organisms and so on

[cloud flint]

There are more moral options but it isn’t the end of the world if the animals are treated with respect and dignity

[burnt tartan]

It becomes morally wrong when you abuse and force an animal to suffer because of the idea of "it's for meat. It will die anyway"

Nothing deserves abuse

[coarse glade]

yeah i personally think the biggest problem is the suffering most animals face

[burnt tartan]

Yeah. I love fish a whole lot, I even eat it. But I become extremely sad and mad when I find fish videos and the person straight up abusing the poor animal instead of killing it swiftly to eat

[coarse glade]

yeah
i have the same but with chickes

[burnt tartan]

This one guy who keep popping up on my yt shorts piss me off so bad bro 😭😭🙏🏾 and NOBODY is complaining

[burnt tartan]

I held baby chick's before, so warm and soft and cute

[ancient wharf]

yea man he stabs fishes in the head

i saw some of em

[coarse glade]

personally i only eat chicken and not every day
because it feels like they resemble humans the least

[burnt tartan]

No no it's some other guy I think

You're suppose to stab fish in head and kill it quick

That's humane

[ancient wharf]

ohhhh

wait i saw chinese ppl (i think) put live insects in boiling oil

in insta reels

[burnt tartan]

I like most meat except a lot of cuts of pork. I only really ever consistently like bacon off a pig

Otherwise the texture ain't it for me

[coarse glade]

ah

[burnt tartan]

💀😭 I could only hope it's swift. Tho as a hypocrite champion, I lowkey dgaf about certain bugs

Like I ain't gonna go out of my way to kill one if it's just outside

[ancient wharf]

yea they eat the annoying and harmful insects

[grizzled venture]

Yes

[ancient wharf]

so ig its ok

[burnt tartan]

I let house spiders live in my house if I see em

Waterbugs gotta go tho

Ants gotta go

[ancient wharf]

nah ants r cool

jus dont keep food in ur floor

they wont invade

[burnt tartan]

They got that hivemind mentality. You see one and suddenly there's 10000

[ancient wharf]

if you kill one they gonna call backup from the hood

[burnt tartan]

Kill em all, leave no survivors to report back

[ancient wharf]

nah

[burnt tartan]

Had a ant infestation once in my room 💀 never again

[ancient wharf]

fun fact: i ate lots of ants.............

[burnt tartan]

Idek how df they got up there

[ancient wharf]

not purposely chill out

[burnt tartan]

It's 2nd story

[ancient wharf]

i have an interesting story with ants

[burnt tartan]

Insane crunch

[ancient wharf]

yknow the rice bags?

i bought like 25x2kg and put them on the floor

then the next morning i woke up and saw a full ant colony coming one by one and taking rice from it

they tore through the packaging

shit was crazy

rice stealers

[burnt tartan]

💀

[stone osprey]

yes, we consume it, use its energy and nutrients, and eventually all that comes back to the Earth. We do the same thing as any other carnivore or omnivore

[broken quartz]

none of what you said is an argument for whether it is moral to do so or not.

[stone osprey]

morals are subjective there's nothing worth arguing tbh

I don't want to try to convince other people of what's moral and what isn't usually

[broken quartz]

I think morals are very much worth discussing

[stone osprey]

at least not rn

[broken quartz]

Never say anything unless it is worth taking a long time to say.

[stone osprey]

It is worth it

I just don't feel like it rn

and 99% of the time they end in nothing

I believe it's morally right cause food

and nutrients

which yes you can get from plants

and I don't mind getting them from plants

I just want meat sometimes xd

[broken quartz]

then if human meat were a superfood, would it be moral to eat

[stone osprey]

depends on your values

for me, no

eating human is just wrong to me but to others they'd be fine with it

[broken quartz]

feel free to just not respond

[stone osprey]

and that's for them to choose

[stone osprey]

nah I'll answer questions idm

I just don't want to write a paragraph explaining myself and then having there be small flaws pointed out and having to clarify again or change my wording

it's just annoying doing it like that

I like how meat tastes, it's not unreasonably expensive, and I don't believe it's wrong to eat animals so I do

humans I have an issue with because I value human life higher ig

same with cats and dogs

[broken quartz]

why

why is a human life worth more

[stone osprey]

it's not worth more in actuality, but to me it is because of a generally higher chance of having an impact that would generally be seen as positive

it's all generalizations and beliefs and values

[broken quartz]

so it would be ok to eat people who are unlikely to make a positive impact

[stone osprey]

to some maybe, to me no

I wouldn't eat any human because the way I have been raised, to see killing and eating humans as wrong

why that is who the hell knows

I just accepted it and believe it cause of generally agreed upon rules

[grizzled venture]

I like fishing so I can get meat for free

[stone osprey]

and it makes enough sense to me

[stone osprey]

unless you're in the US

[grizzled venture]

I mean fishing licence is kinda expensive

[stone osprey]

so many rules and regulations for everything

[grizzled venture]

For me like 100€ a year or so

Yeah

But it's definitely worth it imo

Such a great way to relax

[stone osprey]

some I think are good some I think are bad but enough people agreed they were good so we have them

I see both sides of arguments, I like things about both sides, but I choose to be on the one that eats animals because I like it and enough people see it as being an okay thing

[broken quartz]

I think it's a little lazy not to dig deeper than culture and education for how you should act. We should strive for a better reasoning for the actions we take than "because that's what I was taught".

[stone osprey]

I love animals and nature, but animals and nature tastes good

and we gotta eat something from somewhere

kill and animal or kill a plant you're still killing something to fuel yourself

[broken quartz]

the question is where you draw the line

[stone osprey]

you need to survive off something

[stone osprey]

everyone has their own line and there's nothing wrong with that

:p

[grizzled venture]

For me I see absolutely no reason not to eat meat, even as a christian eating meat is basically what bible tells us to do

[stone osprey]

although some will say eating people is wrong because most people agree eating people is wrong

[broken quartz]

I think it's worth thinking about, and seeing if the line that has been drawn by society/education matches the conclusion you come to

[stone osprey]

we made these agreed upon rules and you can decide to agree or disagree

[stone osprey]

nah there are some things I would and wouldn't eat just because of what it is

why? idk

I just don't think I should eat it

[stone osprey]

and the bible was still wrote by someone or some group of people so either way you're still just going off whatever was already agreed was okay and what wasn't

[broken quartz]

I can give you a couple:
It's terrible for the environment
The animals suffer for your convenience and enjoyment
You decide to prematurely end a life, what gives you that right?

[stone osprey]

1. wild animals were already eating those plants, we're actually saving plants by killing and eating them.
2. there isn't suffering of any sort on lots of farms. Maybe not most yet, but we're getting there.
3. Idk we just decided it was okay and now most people do it. Other animals do it and we chose to do the same cause it didn't seem wrong to us

and the great part about 3 is you don't have to eat animals if you do believe it's wrong

that's like getting mad at a wolf for killing a deer

💀

[broken quartz]

brother. just because it happens in nature doesn't mean we should do it too

Rape. Murder.

[stone osprey]

yeah I know, dolphins r@pe each other and we see that as wrong so we don't do it

killing other animals we don't see as wrong so we do it

[broken quartz]

You actually don't have opinions of your own

[stone osprey]

I agree with it, there are plenty of things most people agree on that I don't

like 14 and 18 year olds legally being allowed to bang in lots of states in the US

I don't agree with that one bit

but it's a thing

[stone osprey]

I have shared opinions, yes

[stone osprey]

I believe it's okay because eating is necessary for survival and whether you get that from a plant or an animal you're killing something

either way you have to kill something

so kill what you want to eat, if what you want to eat is a person go ahead but you'll probably get in trouble cause that's wildely frowned upon

no matter what you eat you're killing something and taking food from something else

you choose what you want that to be

[grizzled venture]

I believe that God is the creator of everything and, that in particular part in bible I am talking about is what God told us to do, and if he says what meat can we eat I see absolutely no reason not to do so

[stone osprey]

yeah, there's lots of ways to come to conclusions about beliefs and morals

some go off religion, some go off family, some go off government, some go off themselves, some go off from friends, etc

[grizzled venture]

That's true

[stone osprey]

there's an unimaginable number of choices that can be made for everything

it's stupid to say one choice is definitively wrong, when it's all subjective

[broken quartz]

I can't believe I was trying to talk about morals with a guy who wishes for my death because I love people of the same gender.

[stone osprey]

it's like arguing about which imaginary superhero is the strongest

[broken quartz]

fucking hell

[stone osprey]

what

who was that?

[broken quartz]

raptor

[stone osprey]

how is he wishing death on you

idk what leviticus 20:13 is

[broken quartz]

20:13 lies with a male as lying with a woman One of Leviticus’ explicit denouncements of homosexual behavior. As with 18:22, it is described as an abomination (to’evah), meaning something abhorrent, offensive, or detestable. Here, the death penalty is associated with the crime.

[stone osprey]

clearly a bible verse

[grizzled venture]

Yes

[stone osprey]

💀

[broken quartz]

yeah.

[stone osprey]

can the homies cuddle without being executed

who gives a shit what gender you sleep with it's none of your business what people do in their own beds

[grizzled venture]

Yeah, that's true

I don't care about anything you are doing

[broken quartz]

you just want us dead

[grizzled venture]

I just have a bible verse in my bio

[stone osprey]

if they're not hurting or killing anyone why does it matter if 2 guys wanna get naked

[stone osprey]

well do you agree with it?

[grizzled venture]

You are right, don't think that I agree with it at all

Not sure why I really had it here

Or like I believe it's a sin

But everyone is a sinner

Sooo

Maybe everyone deserves to die

[stone osprey]

you can think it's a sin and not agree with it, that's just whatevah. But saying they deserve to die probably isn't something that should be vocalized or implied or put to words in any way

[stone osprey]

Not necessarily deserves to die, but it's gonna happen anyway

[broken quartz]

average hate the sin, love the sinner christian

[dense bane]

I have a story about this

[royal plover]

I think therefore I am

[sullen comet]

i think i can fly therefore i can fly

https://tenor.com/view/ice-age-crash-i-believe-i-can-fly-flying-fly-gif-23945296

[median fern]

hey guys whats philosophin'

[fresh grail]

What a great movie

[sullen comet]

a classic oldie

[pastel forum]

i can fly

[wanton lava]

(I am vegetarian). Yes, but most animals in America are "processed" far too inhumanely. We need stricter regulations or better alternatives.

[wanton lava]

Reality is what you percieve it to be

[pastel forum]

death is only thing that make all living beings equal

[sullen comet]

real

[ember tulip]

like what

[wanton lava]

Like free range

[ember tulip]

of what

[wanton lava]

Meat production

[ember tulip]

i see (i search google whats that supposed to mean)

[wanton lava]

America's production is very inhumane

[grizzled venture]

That's true

That's why I like fishing

Because I know where did my lunch came from

[ember tulip]

not just america

tho

[grizzled venture]

That's also true

[ember tulip]

like, what about traditional way of killing the pigs and the chicken

without the use of machinery

and its brutal

also

[ancient wharf]

If im not wrong, they shoot cows until they die

In america

[ember tulip]

i dont know but i guess

america, home of guns

anyways, imma log out and do a quick study and try my best to sleep early

[wanton lava]

I think you are wro g

[ember tulip]

its 10:48pm

[ancient wharf]

Oh damn

I saw some vids of those

So i tht it was common

So what is the usual way?

[weak horizon]

if someone thinks it's not moral to eat meat. They shouldn't eat anything organic or they are hypocrite

unpopular opinion 😎

[wanton lava]

Many people don't like how it's produced

[sullen comet]

not eating it isn’t going to make the people not to make it that way

[wanton lava]

Ik but as a vegetarian I don't want to contribute

[sullen comet]

you can always buy them from people who do actually just kill them and not torture them

[pastel forum]

kill what

[sullen comet]

understandable

[wanton lava]

I also get a bit nauseous, most vegetarians do

[sullen comet]

animals

[sullen comet]

ohhh

[pastel forum]

ok

[sullen comet]

i respect that

[pastel forum]

respect killing animals?

im veg but i had killed many beings (only insects & bugs)

[sullen comet]

not eating animals lol

[pastel forum]

eating plants?

[sullen comet]

yeah

[weak horizon]

well, 11 years ago i stopped consuming eggs, milk products ( except cheese, that's hard to give up but i try to eat way less ), and meat i only ate like 5 times maybe in the past 11 years.

fish as well, but i never really liked fish so.

the meat i'm okay with consuming is the home raised and home made, or hunted and home made. I don't do either, so that's the reason why i don't make and eat it. Only ever happens when my friend who keeps some poultry at home and if we have a gathering with friends, then i will eat from that.

i don't consider myself vegan or vegetarian or anything else, because i just have my own reason why i don't eat, or eat less.

[ornate hazel]

Is there ever moral justification for ending the life of a newborn? <@&1305977291695718462>

[grizzled venture]

In realistic scenarios?

Don't think so

[coarse glade]

of a baby that has been born not no
except maybe if it's in a lot of pain and won't make it

[grizzled venture]

Talking about aboartios, they are valid in my eyes only if the pregnancy is dangerous for the mother

Or when you get raped ig

But having sex with someone and then deciding you don't want the baby, you just should think about that earlier

[ornate hazel]

Tbh the moral justification for ending a newborn’s life is way more controversial than abortion because the baby is already born and considered an individual. Abortion debates usually focus on when life begins and if the fetus has rights, but once the baby is out, it’s a whole different ethical argument and ngl, the only argument that might hold weight is if the newborn is in unbearable pain with no chance of survival, like extreme medical conditions. Even then, it’s a tough call because it shifts into euthanasia territory, which is a whole separate debate

[ornate hazel]

Yeah I completely agree

[coarse glade]

yeah exactly

[ornate hazel]

There's this other thing but I don't wanna bring it up cause it's really controversial and some people might get mad 💀

[ancient wharf]

Cmon thats the point of this thread

[burnt tartan]

Yeah

If the baby is born in perpetual pain and in a way that can't be helped, it's probably more humane to just put the poor infant to rest

Another reason, which may not be as popular is if they are birth complicated to all hell and the parents quite literally cannot effort it mentally or fund wise. And I'm not talking about born blind or born without a arm or something, but something that requires a lifetime of medical attention, a lifetime of battles to keep them comfortable and simply alive. I'm sure parents don't typically plan for a birth complicated baby, many assume a healthy baby. I don't shame parents who legitimately can't handle or raise someone who needs that sort of thing and I congratulations those who push forward, either way it's hard

[rustic dragon]

In the case of a terminal medical condition, I would argue that it is less about "ending a life" and more about "managing pain." I have known/heard about so many people who lived beyond medical expectations, or who had such joy in spite of a difficult life. I don't believe it is our place to choose and snuff that out. But after watching my grandma die of cancer, there was a point at which giving her painkillers and keeping her comfortable was the most humane option. Nothing else could have been done.

[rustic dragon]

Am I understanding correctly that you're advocating treating the infant like you would any human? (i.e. making the most humane choice in difficult situations?)

[burnt tartan]

Yeah

With infants it's harder since you can't tell as easy if they're in pain. They can't voice it. It'll be mentally taxing, but if the parents are certain they legitimately cannot provide and sustain a life for them, then I won't shame.

It's worse to have someone who needs specific help, and they can't even get it and is forced to suffer with it imo

And I mean like, life altering stuff. Not saying blindness or such isn't, but that's still literally a normal child. Can do everything a child that can see given the right advancements

[pastel forum]

no

[pastel forum]

not agree with u

[burnt tartan]

That's fine

Ik its probably not a popular opinion anyway tbh

[stone osprey]

if the mother's life is at risk

wait

you said newborn

uhm

I can't think of any

[ornate hazel]

Hmm I mean that first reason ending a newborn’s life due to unbearable, unfixable pain falls into the euthanasia debate, which some argue is the humane choice in extreme cases. But the second reason? That’s straight-up eugenics talk. Just because a child is expensive or difficult to care for doesn’t justify killing them at all. Yeah, it’s brutal, unfair, and society sucks at supporting parents in those situations, but the answer isn’t “just don’t let them live.” If we justify that, where’s the line? Expensive cancer treatment? Disabilities that limit independence? A world where only the “convenient” get to live is a dystopia, not really a solution

[ornate hazel]

Yeah, this take is pretty solid. There’s a difference between letting someone go peacefully when there’s literally no hope and just deciding their life isn’t worth living. Plenty of people beat the odds or find happiness in tough situations, so calling it early feels kinda messed up. And comparing it to end-of-life care makes snsesne. sometimes the best you can do is keep someone comfortable. But straight-up deciding for a newborn that their life isn’t worth it? That’s a slippery slope man

[burnt tartan]

Cancer allows for the child to still move around, live to some degree

Disabilities can still allow for a child to live to some degree

It's more than convenience, cause if it's all about convenience, then most people wouldn't even have kids. Our lifestyle quite literally does not call for the use of a child. I'm not talking about cancer and stuff like that, I'm talking about defects that quite literally makes you question if they're even alive in the first place, makes you question if that life is even worth living. Then give that child to a parent who don't even want them or can't afford for them to be as comfortable as they possibly could, it's just a living hell at that point

[dense bane]

a kid without a arm have another one

he can still enjoy the life

[burnt tartan]

Yeah, idaf bout no armless kid. Bro can do pretty much anything I can and maybe even more

[dense bane]

yes

or no legs

u can have fun with arms

i think no legs is better than no arms

u can make so many fun things with ur hands

[burnt tartan]

There's tech advancements for allat if you want it as well

[dense bane]

yes that helps

some use them

[ornate hazel]

I get what you’re saying, but “questioning if they’re even alive” is a wild way to frame it. If they’re breathing, they’re alive just maybe not in the way you think life should look. And yeah, some conditions are brutal, but deciding for someone else that their life isn’t worth living is a dangerous road. Plenty of people with severe disabilities still find meaning, joy, or at least the will to exist. The real problem isn’t their existence howevre it’s that society sucks at supporting them and their families. Killing them isn’t the fix; actually providing resources and care is

[ornate hazel]

No legs make planche easier frfr

[coarse glade]

people without legs have beasts of arms

[coarse glade]

exactly

[burnt tartan]

Yeah i agree providing resources is a great way to fix, but there's also the mental fortitude. The knowledge of knowing your child will never be able to run around with other kids, never go to school with other kids (or even be able to school at all) never be able to feed on their own, dress themselves, take care of themselves, maybe even simple stuff as even breathing for themselves. Yeah you can try your best to give then the best life possibly, but it's not like with a pet, it's different mentality when it comes to another human being, that again, many aren't ready for. You can't just keep that sort of human alive for the soul reason being "it's wrong to kill." You have to legitimately love it, accept there will be rough and horrible days, accept the sacrifice you're doing in your life for another, accept that that child's 24/7 care is your life now and that you can't falter with it's care

Not everyone is built for that

[grizzled venture]

When you decide to have children, shouldn't you be aware of the fact that it doesn't have to be born healthy?

[burnt tartan]

Yeah, but I doubt people expect to become a unpaid nurse. Some things like Autism, Down-syndrome, cerebral Palsy, limb deformities, etc should be known and accounted for, as someone can go on to live. Some may be more serious than others, most definitely, but that does not compromise your whole life and completely tank their quality of life

I don't plan to have kids, so I guess that my mentality stems from that. I'm not saying start killing babies because they look a little weird

[sullen comet]

autism is common for kids to get but it usually goes away with age

just wanted to say lol

[coarse glade]

that is not true

you might be talking about certain "autistic behaviours"

but if you have autism you've got it for life

[sullen comet]

ohh

yeah

[dense bane]

ppl with both have better on both

u have to add too much weight without legs

[dense bane]

lol

[cloud flint]

It’s super overdiagnosed and underdiagnosed at the same time

Oh wait nvm

I’m thinking ADHD

But yeah, autism usually “goes away” with age, you could argue most ppl probably learn to just mask

[sullen comet]

pretty much

[tepid gulch]

Hmmm

[vivid oriole]

Growing out of autism isn't really a thing :/

[sullen comet]

i misphrased it 😭

[pastel forum]

just use band to make it easier

all parts of body are cool

i don't want to loose anypart

[pastel forum]

https://tenor.com/view/jump-flip-back-flip-gymnastics-parkour-gif-15378425

[dense bane]

lol

[wanton lava]

If it has a genetic disorder or if it is cooked

[ornate hazel]

Wdym cooked 😭

[wanton lava]

[wanton lava]

like they have brain damage or something

your not supposed to open a leaking container

[dense bane]

no

[dense bane]

ur spartan

[burnt tartan]

LMFAOO

[cloud flint]

If it’s ugly

[grizzled venture]

Every newborn is ugly

[sullen comet]

..

crazy

[grizzled venture]

But it's true

[cloud flint]

True

Kill all babies

[weak horizon]

https://tenor.com/view/lion-king-yeet-gif-13195565629610357612

[grizzled venture]

Big difference between newborns and babies

Some babies are cute, newborns never

[weak horizon]

Marriage. Yes or no? ( i assume most religious people will say yes )

[ornate hazel]

<@&1305977291695718462>

[ornate hazel]

It depends what you mean

[sullen comet]

yes

[ornate hazel]

Would you not wanna get married?

[sullen comet]

(i’m not religious)

[grizzled venture]

Yes

[cloud flint]

I don’t see a point

[ornate hazel]

Why not Nathan

[cloud flint]

What does it actually do?

It’s just legal and theocratic stuff at the end of the day

I could go either way

[ornate hazel]

Marriage isn’t just a legal thing it’s about commitment, partnership, and building a life together

[cloud flint]

Thats what love is about

I wouldn’t be in a relationship otherwise

[ornate hazel]

I mean I guess it shows that you're going all in

Is genuinity a word btw?

Genuinity

[ornate hazel]

What do you think Azta

[cloud flint]

I see what you mean, but for me personally, if you need a declaration it makes me question your character

I might do it for fun

Idk

[weak horizon]

like christians getting married in church. Some other religions do it to, or perhaps all of them.

and me as a non religious person, i wouldn't want to do it. But if my partner really would love to have one, i wouldn't mind it.

[cloud flint]

Same

[fresh grail]

Tax benefits

[cloud flint]

That’s dumb

Well

I guess I kinda see whay

Why

[fresh grail]

Money is money

[cloud flint]

Yeah but I think morally there is problems with that

[grizzled venture]

Honestly I see no reason not to get married

[cloud flint]

But I’m not against an incentive to be social

[ornate hazel]

Marriage isn’t really about religion it’s about you and the person you love choosing each other, fully and publicly. It’s not just a ceremony it’s a statement that says, we’re in this together .If it matters to your partner, it could be worth seeing it as more than just tradition

But honestly it's personal preference

I wouldn't hate my partner if they didn't wanna get married

[cloud flint]

Ye

[weak horizon]

I would rather just do a gathering with friends and family who we love, and have a good time together, just appreciating that we have each other. I don't really care about the church stuff.
And i would do this more than just once if we feel like it. Because i don't see why would i celebrate this only once. And it would be more of a celebration / appreciation of having each other and loving each other with all the family and friends, than just me and my partner.
Kinda like a christmas or new years gathering with friends and family, if you will. But without the religious sentiment.

[ornate hazel]

It's probably societal norms tbh

[cloud flint]

Social norms exist, and as far as they go marriage doesn’t have much of a downside so I don’t see a reason to oppose it

[grizzled venture]

Don't think I could live with someone that will be against marriage

[weak horizon]

well depends. Some people see the religious marriage more important than the governmental one.

[ornate hazel]

That sounds amazing, and honestly, that’s what marriage is. a celebration of love. The difference is, marriage makes it stand out, a way to say, this bond is really life until death

[cloud flint]

How come?

[weak horizon]

i don't see why would i need a marriage when i'm already together with my partner and we love each other. It does nothing for the relationship.

[sullen comet]

you also get to declare your love to the world with a ring on your finger

[cloud flint]

Yeah same

[ornate hazel]

You guys are looking at this too objectively lol

Like hell yeah let's get married!!

If you can, why wouldn't you?

[weak horizon]

because the government and the church makes it objective and material

like, literally

[ornate hazel]

True

[sullen comet]

i mean marriage can give you benefits sooo

lol

[grizzled venture]

I am also against sex before marriage, so it kinda comes together

[cloud flint]

I think getting creative with it is cool, like, I would like to get my partners lips tattooed on my hand instead

[cloud flint]

I see

[dense bane]

No

[sullen comet]

lol interesting

[ornate hazel]

Corbin in his emo era

[sullen comet]

fr

[dense bane]

I don’t need an institutional rite to say I love someone

[weak horizon]

i could get a ring or whatever to my partner without marriage too.

[dense bane]

Or go through a huge amount of shit to divorce

[cloud flint]

I’m a little tired to argue this vehemently, but I do think the marital system has its flaws. It creates an expectation for couples in more ways then one

[cloud flint]

Real

[dense bane]

Rather just move in together and stop at that

[ornate hazel]

That's true, it's like a kind of weight on your shoulders

[sullen comet]

i can't think

sad

[cloud flint]

Fr!

[rustic dragon]

Do you mean that everyone should get married? o.o Or just that marriage is a cool thing?

[cloud flint]

We should all get married!

[ornate hazel]

Lmao

[dense bane]

“It creates an expectation…”

Something about that sentence struck me as significant.

[sullen comet]

if you're in a relationship, should you get married? (is what i think he's asking)

[weak horizon]

i used to do the same with my ex. I don't care about valentines day, because i don't see why would i need a specific day to remember our love. I love everyday, and i show that everyday (that is not to say people who do valentines days, only show love on that day only).
I gave my ex gifts on random days and times, whenever i felt like it. More like whenever i saw something and i knew she would like it. Not to spoil her, but just showing love. Ofc everyday i told her i love and and gave other compliments, so this doesn't have to be all material.

[dense bane]

Being Incentivized to abide by parameters that I didn’t set, is an immediate red flag

[cloud flint]

Yeah, I’m not against society incentivising people to socialize and get together, we’re social animals, but I’m against how marriage seems to supersede the relationship and become an expectation outside of just a fulfilling relationship

[burnt tartan]

some people marry for tax benefits

[wanton lava]

Í

[dense bane]

The moment someone tells me what ought to be, I’m suspicious

[ornate hazel]

Moose said that lmao

[cloud flint]

I get what you mean, but I disagree slightly. We should incentivize healthy things to make peoples lives easier

[wanton lava]

You ought to keep it to yourself

[weak horizon]

i mean if you want to get married or no. Not right now, but like if you find your love partner. Do you believe in it or not.

[wanton lava]

I would

The game doesn't recognize it

If not

[dense bane]

There’s a lot to be said about what is “healthy” or “easier”.

[weak horizon]

lmao

[cloud flint]

100%. I think we should still make decisions abt it. I think most would agree socializing is healthy, we are social animals and our society functions on the basis that we work together.

[wanton lava]

Has anyone read atlas shrugged

[dense bane]

I wouldn’t say that. I welcome opposing views and even encourage them.

I’ve just good reason to distrust that kind of person.

[cloud flint]

I know of it, have not read it

[sullen comet]

buh

[cloud flint]

Thought without reason

Right?

[dense bane]

That could be applicable, yeah

[burnt tartan]

Id love to get married one day. I see no problem in getting married. If I have a partner who think marriage does not equate to love, that fine, but if they're adamant about not marrying me, I'm going to end up thinking somethings up. If they truly believe that marriage does not equate to love, and them being there is enough, then marry me to make me happy then

[wanton lava]

Reading it rn

[cloud flint]

Make sense

[cloud flint]

Have u played bioshock?

[wanton lava]

No, is it like plague inc

[cloud flint]

No but it’s related to the book. Its one of my top 10

[dense bane]

I understand. I would agree that in the pursuit of a happy life (for most people), socializing often is beneficial towards that end.

[wanton lava]

After reading only a few pages I hate liberals. 10/10

[ornate hazel]

That’s a fair way to see it. If marriage truly doesn’t matter to them, then why not do it for the person they love? At some point, it’s less about personal beliefs and more about making your partner feel valued and secure in the relationship :))

[rustic dragon]

Ah, I definitely believe marriage can be beautiful. It can also be really tough. But it's something I'd love to experience one day. It is a vow to walk beside one person in the most special of ways. :>

(This is of course talking about the best case scenarios

But there are also religious people who value being single :>

[burnt tartan]

Yeah. At some point I'm just going to think bro just don't love me like that and wanna commit. Like I understand if its 'too early' or 'not ready' or 'not financially ready for it' I get it 100% and shelf the idea. But if it's been years or if they seem to be damn near religiously against marriage, imma think something is wrong

[rustic dragon]

Yeah, I get that. Because if someone knows it's important to you and doesn't do anything, you have to start to wonder if it's meaningless to them or if they just have an aversion to either the commitment or to you.

[burnt tartan]

yeah

[dense bane]

I was hoping someone would point this out.

[dense bane]

Why

[burnt tartan]

Not really? Who wouldn't want to flex the ring or flex the new title of "husband" or "wife"

To be honest at that point it's on you for getting with someone who does not declare their love for you even before marriage

[rustic dragon]

Honestly, a wedding is a very fancy ceremony displaying to the public that "I promise to love this person," when you break it down. A party? So everyone can be happy together. A public promise? Because you're not ashamed of your partner. A wedding ring? I'm off limits.

Everything has gotten very fancy/"unnecessary." But, for instance, if I found love in a post-apocalyptic scenario with no society around, it would still be nice to hear that promise from my partner (and in my case, for us to make that promise acknowledging that God was our witness, which is basically what a Church wedding also does). No preachers, no audience, no ceremony, but I'd still consider myself married at that point.

( @burnt tartan Gotta love that post-apocalyptic. romance rp 😅

[burnt tartan]

HAH

[rustic dragon]

I haven't but writing that I was like oooo 😂

[burnt tartan]

Ideas in the mind

Literally in the middle of writing my crime rp reply

[rustic dragon]

How is the detective o.o

[burnt tartan]

good! still havent figured out his colleague is a killer

[rustic dragon]

Oh dear 😅

[cloud flint]

I see what you mean, but I’m personally like not a big event person. I don’t like big things happening. I might get eloped but idk

[stone osprey]

yes

[sullen comet]

same lol. i dread the idea of being in big crowds, even with people that ik. i'm kind of a big introvert but i'll deal with a wedding if my bf wants a wedding (he's my comfort space after all so i can just hide with him if anything :p)

[cloud flint]

Yeah definitely. To me its like, if you need to get married, it makes me ask if maybe they aren’t sure I love them, or whatever. If its a big problem to them, it makes me raise an eyebrow, but if its just a small thing I could go either way

[stone osprey]

frfr

[sullen comet]

frfrfr

[stone osprey]

being able to get out of any situation cause your wife needs you

🔥

[cloud flint]

Sounds amazing

[sullen comet]

lolol

[rustic dragon]

Mhmm. I don't know that I'd do a huge event myself. Still a party with friends is fun 😅

[stone osprey]

Kat and I are trying to get under 50

[cloud flint]

Wha

[stone osprey]

people at the wedding*

[cloud flint]

Am I invited?

[sullen comet]

50 is still too many imo

[rustic dragon]

At first I thought you meant "get married before we turn fifty" 😭

[cloud flint]

Invite hampton 50 times

[stone osprey]

lol

[sullen comet]

we should do 20 people at max

[stone osprey]

definitely

[rustic dragon]

Yes

[stone osprey]

noooo

that is like noone

[sullen comet]

same lol

[rustic dragon]

You do also have to plan that some people might not come

[sullen comet]

you know so many people 😭

[rustic dragon]

So you could inflate it a tiny bit

[stone osprey]

yeah

[stone osprey]

my people is like 38 I think

and yours was 11

iirc

[rustic dragon]

I'm sure he can fit a two way mirror halfway through the building so you can only see twenty

[stone osprey]

and there were a couple more that we both wanted to invite like Hampton

[sullen comet]

it wasn't even 10 people 😭

[stone osprey]

you'd have to ask kat

[sullen comet]

lolol

[rustic dragon]

Also wait wait is this a super serious soon thing??? A serious thing???

[sullen comet]

that would be good

[cloud flint]

@sullen comet

[sullen comet]

yes lol

[stone osprey]

before 2030 is the goal

[rustic dragon]

runs around happy screaming and throwing confetti

[stone osprey]

lol

omg wait

Kat

[cloud flint]

Yipeeeeee

[sullen comet]

hmm

[stone osprey]

minstrel would be so fun to have at our wedding ehehe

[sullen comet]

yeah?

[rustic dragon]

:o

[sullen comet]

oooh yess

[rustic dragon]

holds up my violin so I don't add to the guest count

[sullen comet]

yesyes :]

[cloud flint]

YAYAYAY

[rustic dragon]

[I need to run to violin lesson byeeee]

[sullen comet]

bye minstrel!

[burnt tartan]

by the way, you dont need a ceremony to get married

[weak horizon]

@opal glen here

[opal glen]

what the

thanks

[cloud flint]

U can do the !philosopher thing if u wanna get pinged when we have a convo btw

Wait I think its !philosophy

[sullen comet]

it is lol

[cloud flint]

Kk

[opal glen]

what will it do?

ping me for every message that gets posted ?

[weak horizon]

no, only when @ Philosopher role gets tagged.

[weak horizon]

like here

[opal glen]

I see, do I type it here ?

the command

[cloud flint]

<@&1305977291695718462> what is the bestest thing everr

[stone osprey]

being married

[sullen comet]

my bf

[stone osprey]

no you are

smh

[sullen comet]

smh

you said being married

smh

that's worst than me

[stone osprey]

nah cause I'm including both of us

you're only thinking about yourself 😔

[sullen comet]

.. true

[sullen comet]

noo :(

[weak horizon]

strawberries

[burnt tartan]

me

[sturdy lake]

u are my sunshine

[ancient wharf]

Yes

💍

[ancient wharf]

Food

[pastel forum]

becoming strong and wealthy🗿

[jade star]

Life

[azure fractal]

dépends? with the right person yes

[ancient wharf]

Since the topic is about marriages

[azure fractal]

i see this tho

[ancient wharf]

<@&1305977291695718462> what do yall think about arranged marriage

[azure fractal]

agreed unless they have a genuine reason

[azure fractal]

disagree w them but ik they’re traditional and work in many cultures so as long as it’s not forced it’s chill

my grandma was in an arranged marriage

except she was 12 so that was bad

[burnt tartan]

Not a fan since most the times it's forced. If not forced then it's ight

[ancient wharf]

Tbh its only forced in poverty filled low class villages nowadays

[graceful stump]

👎

[burnt tartan]

Arrange marriage as if they a king and queen of a foreign nation

[cloud flint]

0/10

[ember tulip]

What do you call a smart person in America?

A tourist

[pastel forum]

[ember tulip]

its fine for me

as long they are hot but the age gap should be approporiate

[azure fractal]

‼️ that second part

[ancient wharf]

Elaborate

[ancient wharf]

Yes i also agree with the age gap part

[cloud flint]

Nobody but you should decide who you want to merry/spend the rest of your life with.

[weak horizon]

Nay.

I know some people argue that it's fine in these days. Because so many people struggle to find a partner, and just end up lonely.

but it's still a nay for me.

[sullen comet]

no. sometimes you meet people where you just don't click as friends, coworkers, or just as a person. it happens. arranged marriages are a hit or miss. it's a very risky take cause for all you know, you could end up in an abusive relationship or find yourself in a toxic relationship and no idea how to break out of it. or maybe you'll just be feeling like you're not even in a relationship but just a partnership where you're working everyday. i personally would discourage it but i have seen some arranged marriages where they actually end up pretty well but it's not very common tbh

[pastel forum]

well what do u do if she have feminist mentallity

[ember tulip]

play along with her thats it

[pastel forum]

u don't know how scary laws are there for womens

[ember tulip]

like what?

[ancient wharf]

Uhhh yeah that what you do in arrange marriage

I dont think you get the concept

Your parents choose a girl

You get to know her

[ember tulip]

love takes time

[ancient wharf]

If you like her marry her and if you dont then leave it

[pastel forum]

i forgot

[ancient wharf]

Yeah i agree about the risky part but it has been the tradition here since a long time

[ember tulip]

if she has that kind of mentality, just get along with it, but have some pride, just follow half of the rules you can take, make boundaries each other, love takes time,blah blah blah

[ancient wharf]

Also here they usually ask neighbors or relatives of the boy/girl to gather information and see if they are eligible or not

[pastel forum]

i saw a many news of sucide cases cause of wife in past few months

[ancient wharf]

Many people think arrange marriage is just to marry someone blindly

[pastel forum]

yes

[ember tulip]

i want a hot girl who has qualities and a good family background

[ancient wharf]

Yeah who doesn't

[pastel forum]

i just want a nice girl

[cloud flint]

why set a precedent that your parents should choose who your with?

[vivid oriole]

Mooshroom 😭

[ancient wharf]

Why not

[vivid oriole]

No, unless it's for tax write-offs

[cloud flint]

it creates unnessecary pressure and responsibility to do what the community percieves as best

[ancient wharf]

Wym community?

[cloud flint]

the people around you

it reinforces the idea that your parents, family, know best

sure they sometimes do, but we shouldn't set a moral precident and favor their opinions over others

just because your related to someone doesn't make them good or bad examples

or ppl

[ancient wharf]

Yeah but i don't see how that would create unnecessary pressure and responsibilities

[cloud flint]

because it favors the opinions of your parents and family

[vivid oriole]

Worst thing to ever happen 😔

[cloud flint]

rejecting it austrocisises people

[ancient wharf]

Its not like they are the one that is choosing the girl. They just give you a couple choices. If you don't like any of the choices then you can reject

[vivid oriole]

Again the most you see in an arranged marriage is the photo of the person that's about it, you don't know them or what they will be like

Kinda sounds like a nightmare ngl

[cloud flint]

its convoluted anyway, and rejecting it austricises people unnesicarially. Whats problem with just letting people live their lives?

[ancient wharf]

Nope you dont get the concept

You get to know him

[vivid oriole]

Sure eloborate haseeb

[ancient wharf]

You get to ask his whole village to see if hes good or not

[vivid oriole]

That's- again it's the view of other people your relying on not your own

[ancient wharf]

Bruh they are not forcibly trying to get you married

[vivid oriole]

Like he could be an abusive pice of shit and could do nothing about it. It's very common here actually

[cloud flint]

again, what's wrong with normal marriage and dating?

[ancient wharf]

Thats the reason you have to reseach about their family before you marry them

[ancient wharf]

There is no problem

[vivid oriole]

Arranged marriages occur in very conservative and traditional areas, so it's just less common

[ancient wharf]

Dating goes against the religious views thats all

So arranged marriage is very common in Muslim countries

[cloud flint]

nobody is right for the same person forever

we both grow and change and develop

thats one of the things that puts me against marriage as a whole I guess

why should we be locked into a relationship at all?

[ancient wharf]

Man its just like a normal marriage, you can divorce whenever you want

Wdym locked into it

[cloud flint]

just marriage in general I guess

[ancient wharf]

Oh

[cloud flint]

there is definitely a bad connotation associated with divorce

[vivid oriole]

It's just a very shitty thing to go through, also there's definitely a stigma around divorce :/

[ancient wharf]

I guess

[ancient wharf]

True

[pastel forum]

divorce and -50% of ur property

just find a nice partner or stay single

[weak horizon]

that's not what arranged marriage is. In arranged marriage the parents tell you that you have to marry the one specific woman/man that they pick for you. There is no choice in it.

[weak horizon]

that doesn't necessarily mean you can't remain "right" for one another. You definitely can.

[broken quartz]

this is absolutely the worst way to ask someone to marry you 😭

[weak horizon]

what

i had to try man 😦

[dense bane]

sure

[ember tulip]

if its me, it would be a different case

[pastel forum]

Maybe

[weak horizon]

i'm sorry, what?

which or what feminism are we talking about?

[pastel forum]

I forgot

[weak horizon]

what do you mean. You are asking what do you do if she has feminist mentality. As if that was bad in general. Not a specific story.

[pastel forum]

Feminist mostly don't care about mens thats what I saw

[weak horizon]

the neo feminism, perhaps. The original one just wants equality

don't let this modern crap taint and make you believe what feminism is. It isn't what you hear or see today

[pastel forum]

Even the genetics says no one is equal bro

[weak horizon]

?????????

[pastel forum]

Only thing that make us all equal is death

[ember tulip]

born and death

but the status, genetic strengths and weakness arent

[weak horizon]

i don't think you understand what faminism is about, and the issues women had in the past, and still has today to some extent

[pastel forum]

Yes

[weak horizon]

this isn't about being equal in strength, or physicality, or intelligence.

[pastel forum]

I don't know

[weak horizon]

it's about rights

[pastel forum]

Tbh

[weak horizon]

you know vomen wasn't allowed to vote?

that is what feminism is about

to give them equal rights

[pastel forum]

Yes I know but in past

[ember tulip]

aint that problem solve already?

[weak horizon]

past and present, that is feminism

[pastel forum]

Rn everyone has right to vote

[weak horizon]

what you see today about feminism is not feminism, even if they claim so

[weak horizon]

yes, but that's not what we are talking about here...

[pastel forum]

Their claim nowadays are women > men

[weak horizon]

he said "what if she has feminist mentality?" As if that was bad

like you are against equal rights for women

[pastel forum]

No

[weak horizon]

well you give that implication with that question

[weak horizon]

those are not feminists, those are ignorant people

[pastel forum]

Self proclaimed feminist?

[weak horizon]

yes

[ancient wharf]

No its not at all like that

Maybe in other continents

But in asia its like how i said

Ur not forced

[weak horizon]

i thought Indians did it that way too

many arranged weddings there, and not a choice

[ancient wharf]

Yeah its forced in lower class areas

Like poverty areas

But normally its not forced

[weak horizon]

i thought higher class people did it too, to join families

[ancient wharf]

Nah

[weak horizon]

i'm pretty sure i seen stories about those..

they didn't look lower class to me

[ancient wharf]

Eh idk about india much

[pastel forum]

real

[ancient wharf]

It sometimes happen in countries like india pakistan bangladesh

[pastel forum]

if their is love than thats love marriage

[ancient wharf]

Cuz they have lotta problems

[ancient wharf]

Its like that in india?

[pastel forum]

idk im not married

[ancient wharf]

Then wym by real

[pastel forum]

meaning

[ancient wharf]

Im asking if most arrange marriages in india are forced or not

[weak horizon]

it can really depend on family and the marriage i guess. Maybe not all arranged marriages are forced. But many of them forced psychologically. You do it for the parents because they went through a great deal to arrange it. An arrangement is a deal between two families.

imagine how those people feel if you reject the arrangement

the shame and embarrassment you bring to the family

[pastel forum]

dunno about forced but mostly girls family want men with gov job and boys fortuner

[weak horizon]

the family would lose respect in society

[ancient wharf]

Nah its not that deep. So basically the families exchange biodata (info about boy/girl).

Its very common being rejected

[weak horizon]

so while not "forced" physically ( at least not always ), there is this guilt trip for this, if you don't do it you and your family will be blamed.

[ancient wharf]

It doesnt signify anything

[ancient wharf]

Nope

[weak horizon]

i didn't say all of them are like that

[ancient wharf]

Yeah here too

[weak horizon]

but there are plenty stories like that...

[ancient wharf]

Yeah

[pastel forum]

yes family image is important tbh

[weak horizon]

sure an individual's and a family's reputation is important in society. But this shouldn't be why.

arranged marriages were important centuries ago, but some parts of the world has progressed in this regard.

[pastel forum]

i will think about marriage after passing age of 24

[weak horizon]

hmm that's an interesting topic too, or contrast

like 60++ years ago, it was more common that people get married and have family in their early 20s

today's generation waits until their 30s or even 40s

[ancient wharf]

Yeah but in modern society its very very hard to have a stable income at early 20s

Education finishes at like 25 depending on where you are

[weak horizon]

yeah the dynamic changed for sure

education is more accessible for people, in the past not everyone could afford to go to uni

but i don't think money has anything to do with this, not everywhere at least.

people who study until 25 are people who are either wealthy, or took a student loan (those are absolutely insane in US btw), or in some cases the government supports them.

and when they are done studying most people just want to chase career, instead of having a family.

[ancient wharf]

You finish university at like 23-24 here

[dense bane]

men are weak

[weak horizon]

depends on the profession, but yeah same here