PHILOSOPHY CHANNEL

[patent veldt]

they were invented by taking old laws to their extremes

I have a bachelor's degree in physics, won't argue on most physics topics cus it's not enough but no one is allowed to break the 1st law of thermodynamics and get away with it

[stone osprey]

chuck norris could ngl

[sullen comet]

dang, physics.. i can imagine you struggled a bit with it lol

[cloud flint]

At least you took accountability for your actions. I think thats what’s important, and the problem is we need to take accountability for things that aren’t even our responsibility. It’s not my fault that I had no sense empathy and my mental illness was neglected by my parents, I was mentally ill but I took responsibility for that. I couldn’t function in social settings until like just before covid. People need to be held accountable for more than their able to control because ultimately there’s more things to take responsibility for than there are people.

[stone osprey]

my physics teacher was telling me about all this so idk man

and everything I'm seeing seems to support it

[patent veldt]

Look up the first law of thermodynamics

[patent veldt]

Wasn’t so bad in all honesty, found out I prefer math along the way though which made the end of my degree kinda boring

[stone osprey]

yeah, energy cannot be created or destroyed

well, it can

and it has been

[cloud flint]

I bed

[stone osprey]

multiple times

[cloud flint]

Gn

[patent veldt]

Lol alright

[stone osprey]

reading it yourself would make this less painful

[patent veldt]

Dude

I don’t think you understand how fundamental of a rule this is

[stone osprey]

the fusion reactor test results have been repeated

[stone osprey]

oh I didn't believe it either lol

[patent veldt]

Have you actually read the results? Because I just did

[stone osprey]

I thought my teacher was bullshitting

it's the first law of thermodynamics so logically it'd be quite an unbreakable rule

but the titanic was also thought to be unsinkable

granted the first law of thermodynamics is a lot more solid than the titanic was

[patent veldt]

Yep just went through it, those headlines are a giga scam

It took an order of 10^3 MJ of energy to make a laser of 2 MJ, and then we got 3 MJ using the 2 MJ laser

[sullen comet]

indeed. i mean you can always talk to him about it - in a nice manner. it can only go so far. people have choices, we can call him em out but what he does about it is his choice. we can't force anyone to do or believe anything and we shouldn't. his life isn't my life. yes, i agree that people should take responsbility for their actions and live up to be better tomorrow than he is today. however, it can only go so far. some people don't take responsibility but yeah

[patent veldt]

However, lasers don’t just exist in nature, it costs energy to make them, and it will always cost more energy to make the laser than any output energy of a system using that laser

[patent veldt]

@stone osprey I don’t blame you for getting mixed up by it, pretty often science headlines are scams

[stone osprey]

I think you read it backwards

I do that too sometimes haha :>

[patent veldt]

Did you read what I said?

[sullen comet]

lol, ig you're just quick to pick up patterns then

[stone osprey]

that is true but over time that energy can be made back from the reactions

[patent veldt]

How? In what way?

[patent veldt]

Lol I lowkey just abused math to avoid learning physics if I’m being honest

[stone osprey]

it's still a net energy gain within the system and I read that the efficiency of the system would need to be improved to be practical

obviously

[patent veldt]

Within the system of the laser and the reactor, yes. Within the system of the earth, or the universe, no, and it never can be

[stone osprey]

cause hundreds of MJ to power the laser is still a loss there

[stone osprey]

then why would we be investing billions into making these reactors

[patent veldt]

That’s a great question

[stone osprey]

if we'd be guaranteed to lose energy every time

[patent veldt]

Because we already lose energy every time

[stone osprey]

it seems possible to just make the lasers way more efficient

with a lot of engineering

[patent veldt]

We are trying to improve Q, the conversion ratio, and fusion has the potential to increase Q

Currently, our conversion rates of potential energy to useable energy are absolute garbage

[stone osprey]

yes

[patent veldt]

This could potentially be a 100fold increase in Q, but it would still use more energy than it produces in the system of the universe

[stone osprey]

but if it can't be created or destroyed, the universe wouldn't lose or gain anything

[patent veldt]

By converting matter into energy, we lose total energy but gain useable energy, like burning coal to power a steam engine

[patent veldt]

Correct, it doesn’t, it just gets converted until heat energy is all that remains

[stone osprey]

also atomic decay theory works, where in a few octillion years the universe would run out of energy entirely and become a vast wasteland where it's forever to be 0°K, so why wouldn't it be able to work the other way around where the universe could gain energy?

[sullen comet]

LOL

[stone osprey]

real

[sullen comet]

you practically already know college physics lol

[stone osprey]

nah I wouldn't say so

maybe some of it

but not all of it

[patent veldt]

Ah, but this is slightly incorrect

Energy is not lost, it is simply converted into an unusable form

[stone osprey]

o.O

[patent veldt]

Which is different from being lost

[stone osprey]

how could it be unusable

I get at 0°K everything stops

[patent veldt]

heat energy, my friend

[stone osprey]

even light

but wouldn't something still be possible

[patent veldt]

I've always had problems with it, but it's another fundamental truth

[stone osprey]

gravity might still work even if the universe was in a heat death but I'm not too sure

[patent veldt]

I will say, there is 1 thing which is a potential hole in this theory, but it's such bs and so weird it's hard to say

[patent veldt]

depends, if there is no mass left than gravity loses meaning, all that's left is energy, but spacetime might still be distorted

[stone osprey]

although gravity also propagates at the exact speed of light so we know that gravity must be bending some invisible fabric of space. But we've known that for a while.

[patent veldt]

yep, general relativity is very fun

[stone osprey]

that happens a lot unfortunately

[patent veldt]

wish I got to do that more

[stone osprey]

haha

[patent veldt]

no, you don't realize how BS this one thing is

there is some potential that matter spontaneously pops into existence occasionally, and is immediately deleted by corresponding antimatter which popped into existence at the same moment

but there is not much to go off of with this

[stone osprey]

well mass doesn't fade or disappear at 0°K as far as I know. But we haven't gotten there and we probably never will. So spacetime should still be distorted

motion stops but I don't think gravity is motion

[reef star]

What made you change?

[patent veldt]

gravity isn't really a thing, it's more of a construct that is useful

[stone osprey]

this reminds me of whitehole theory a bit

[patent veldt]

GR seems to be much better than gravity

[patent veldt]

yea pretty much exactly that

there is potentially something there, but who tf knows

[stone osprey]

I wrote about whiteholes for a presentation in 5th grade

and from then on I was called a nerd

🔥

[patent veldt]

you interested in physics and math?

[stone osprey]

yes

[patent veldt]

W

what grade are you in? assuming still hs

[stone osprey]

I'm a senior

:p

in HS yeah

[patent veldt]

you planning on studying physics in college?

[stone osprey]

I haven't got a damn clue

dies

[patent veldt]

lol real

it's all good, you'll figure it out

i took a weird path, but found math is the right place for me

[stone osprey]

this has definitely been one of the best conversations I've had here

[patent veldt]

ye glad I could provide some info

[stone osprey]

I feel as if I was slightly disrespectful early on but you seem cool

[patent veldt]

usually don't go into details but felt I could here

[sullen comet]

time lol. idk how i lost the ability to feel sympathy and empathy but as time went by, i realized how i was rotting and that was affecting my parents because they were taking care of my physical health and i wasn't even doing the basics (hygiene) and my parents were worried. i tried to take more care of myself because i didn't want them to waste money on me so i just did something about it lol. it didn't really help me with my mental health but ig it somewhat did

[patent veldt]

all good, I think I came off a bit disrespectful too tbh, question marks are passive aggressive ig

[sullen comet]

you'd be really good at it

[stone osprey]

true lol

[patent veldt]

rip, life is rough and I can relate fs

[stone osprey]

A lot of people say I'd be good at a lot of things, but there is too much I want to do while also never being enough to do

[patent veldt]

what other potential paths are you considering? will affect my suggestion

[stone osprey]

or the right thing to do

:/

[patent veldt]

just do something, better than nothing

[stone osprey]

airforce/spaceforce (cringe ik) pretty much any other branch of science, or something else entirely idk

Olympic cyclist could work

so many different paths

[patent veldt]

yeah go study physics

[patent veldt]

can train while schooling, don't commit to something like that til ur elite

[patent veldt]

but make sure to get into math now, like get exceptionally good at math early

[stone osprey]

I already average slightly higher than most Olympic cyclists on bike trails

[patent veldt]

don't be like all the other physicists and wait until it's too late

[stone osprey]

I'd love to try out on a real track

and with a good bike

[patent veldt]

well shit, that's something

[sullen comet]

well you would be, at least if it's logical. you're quick to pick up patterns and you're curious. i get how you feel tho, there's a lot of fun things to do lol

[patent veldt]

still, do something academic til supporting yourself as an athlete alone is possible, don't commit too early

[sullen comet]

there's no such thing as right or wrong when it comes to choosing a career lol

[stone osprey]

math isn't really my thing I'd rather be doing crazy experiments and testing than a whole lot of calculations

[sullen comet]

that would be so cool

[stone osprey]

I'm good at math but I find it boring usually

[patent veldt]

you still need to be good at math before getting into experimental physics

[stone osprey]

yeah I know :/

[patent veldt]

also, ill say that at least my experience with experimental physics was pretty shit

maybe engineering is more fun

but experimental physics was mostly waiting for something to happen and I couldn't stand it

[stone osprey]

I need myself to do something positively meaningful

[sullen comet]

become a father

[patent veldt]

if it does something good it's fine, no need to maximize without considering your happiness

[stone osprey]

with who though? o-o

[sullen comet]

your gf

who else lol

[stone osprey]

ig

[stone osprey]

what if she's to far away to do that rn

guess I gotta wait

😔

[sullen comet]

you're 17.. idk if you'd want to be a father at 17 💀

[stone osprey]

hear me out

[patent veldt]

lol

parents were 16 and 17 when I was born, wouldn't suggest it

[stone osprey]

oh shit

that's wild

[patent veldt]

had a good life, but it's been real tough on my mom and she coulda had shit go way easier

so def would suggest against it

[stone osprey]

yeah

my friends mom gave birth to him at 18 and his older sister at 16

she's so sweet but damn her life has been rough

[patent veldt]

yea this, my mom's experience too

[stone osprey]

welp, guess I'd better get grindin

dad speedrun

🔥

and drivin

I'd have to drive a bit

[reef star]

Ahh okay so it's still a journey. Was there a turning point where it became easier?

Or it changed as soon as you decided?

[sullen comet]

yeeah, when my boyfriend came into play lol. idk how but my love for him felt different than what i've felt towards my exbfs and he's unintentionally helping me

lol

[reef star]

Ahh that's great. I'm glad that it's helping. It's really nice when our loved ones help us improve

I will just add a side note to be careful with that if it's an online relationship though. People are especially sensitive to age gaps now (perhaps understandably so) and can call things predatory even if you don't feel like they are. Just be careful where it goes and what you share, you know?

[sullen comet]

of course. thanks for the heads up. it actually is an online relationship. i never really expected it nor did i exactly support online relationships because of how wacky it usually is. edating is just.. eh but i’m here so lol
i told my family about him and they know about him. we’re also planning to meet up in the summer (about 6 months) so it won’t always going to be an online relationship but a long distance relationship

[wanton lava]

wear a glove with plutonium and bump into someone
[ingame]

[cloud flint]

<@&1305977291695718462> can sociopaths and people who don’t have emotions and empathy in general be ethical?

[stone osprey]

yes

[sullen comet]

yes

[fresh grail]

yes

[patent veldt]

I think they can act ethically, but I'm not sure about be ethical

I have one friend who is like this and it's truly disturbing when I argue with him, he will argue for sytems while never considering those who must live in that system

[wanton lava]

yes

[ancient wharf]

Yes

[hasty rain]

Yes

[ornate hazel]

We have a bunch of yes men here 😮‍💨

[ornate hazel]

I don't think so

Sure while sociopaths or those without empathy might follow ethical rules for practical reasons, true ethics really goes beyond that

It’s about genuinely caring for others and understanding how our actions affect them. Without empathy, they might struggle to fully grasp or prioritize the well being of others, which is at the epitome of ethical behavior

So

Ethics is about caring how your actions affect others. People without empathy, like sociopaths, might follow rules to avoid trouble or get what they want, but it’s not because they genuinely care. For example, a sociopath might donate to charity to look good, not because they want to help people. True ethics comes from caring, and not just acting

[sullen comet]

lol indeed

[rustic dragon]

What if a sociopath acted ethically because he understood it to be right, i.e. had chosen to follow a moral compass as correct? If he (I am using this pronoun in the historical and all-encompassing sense) knew that he could not feel care for any man, but still chose to act with it because he believed the action of caring to be right?

You say that true ethics comes from caring. I do generally agree with this, but often character shines most brightly when someone does something because it is right, not because they care for the person in question.

For instance, a man may very well be attracted to a stranger he sees walking down the street late at night. He can at that point choose to act either in accordance with his emotions and desires (which in some cases brings great violence), or to act respectfully. A child or teen can desire a piece of candy at the store, and while there is no caring relationship with the store owner he can do the right thing for conscience sake.

Someone with a lack of emotion can still behave contrary to their emotional numbness. They can still believe something is right, simply because it is.

Because of this, I believe it is possible for a sociopath to be truly ethical, if his moral compass is correct. But it would look (and of course feel) very different. 🤔

(I had the thought yesterday but was very busy 😅

[ornate hazel]

Hmmmmm

[patent veldt]

I’m in agreement. They can act ethically, but they cannot be ethical

[ornate hazel]

Ethics isn’t just about doing the right thing—it’s about why you do it. A sociopath might act ethically out of logic, like saving a drowning person because it’s “the right thing,” but it’s not driven by care or connection. True ethics comes from valuing others’ well-being, not just following rules or principles. Without empathy, their actions may seem right, but they lack the depth that makes morality meaningful

[ornate hazel]

Yeah that's my point exactly

[rustic dragon]

Ah, I guess I've been using a different definition of ethics. If you define ethics as requiring the emotion of care then of course they can't.

[Did a quick check and Mirriam-Webster online does not mention emotion, simply a set of moral principles, with ethical = conforming to accepted standards of conduct. Though personally, ethics as conformation seems a shallow definition. I'll need to do a dive into some of my older dictionaries at home!]

[patent veldt]

I know a sociopath who, for the most part, acts ethically, but he genuinely only does ethical things because he’s worried he’ll be rejected from society if he doesn’t

[rustic dragon]

Websters New International Dictionary, Second Edition, Unabridged:

Ethical:

1. Of or relating to moral action, motive, or character; as, ethical emotion; also, treating of moral feelings, duties, or conduct; containing precepts of morality; moral
2. Professionally right or befitting; conforming to professional standards

Will try to find another later, but this does seem to bear you out a bit more, being the same as moral. (Which begs the question, what is the definition of being moral).

[patent veldt]

But he genuinely had trouble rejecting all the knowledge of math if it came at the cost of his little sister

[rustic dragon]

What would you call him if his motive was that it was the right thing to do?

[patent veldt]

Well, what is the right thing to do? It’s defined by your moral compass, which he does not have

I think in all cases, a sociopath acting ethically is not doing so because they want to do the right thing, as they have no definition of right and wrong

[rustic dragon]

Like, to keep it in a world I know, what if he had decided logically that Christianity was real, and thus chose the Bible as a moral compass. (thus learning that fairness, treating others well, etc. was the correct way to live, and desired of him).

Would he be ethical? Or just "happening to follow kindness because the religion he believed in requires it"?

Actually, I do see a bit more of your point now. Are you saying that being innately ethical would require you to have an inborn care/understanding of why ethics are important?

Where behaving ethical without that internal compass isn't the same?

And you're asking if sociopaths can be innately ethical?

[patent veldt]

It’s still acting ethically, but it’s not being ethical

[patent veldt]

Yep, that’s what I’m arguing

[rustic dragon]

Ahh, ok! That is a really interesting question... and would perhaps delve into whether it is possible to have a conscience without emotions 🤔

[patent veldt]

I think you can have a conscience, but it only works in relation to you. What I mean is - you have homework that’s due, but you don’t want to do it so you play video games to procrastinate. While you play the video game, you feel bad about what you are doing. AFAIK he experiences this, he’s talked about it w me, but it’s only because it’s in relation to him

He can only view something as a wrong choice if it’s wrong to him

[fresh grail]

Bruce in Finding Nemo says that "Fish are friends, not food." Is he right? If he is, how do we reconcile that with his attempting to eat Nemo in the next scene? <@&1305977291695718462>

[stone osprey]

Fish are fish

and I eat fish

therefore they are food

although they can also be friends

so it kinda depends

[dense bane]

Valid answer

[ornate hazel]

I dunno man he's crazy

[sturdy lake]

he wuz lying

his plan was to strike once nemo was lured in to a false sense if security

[wanton lava]

no - i refuse to elaborate

[wanton lava]

you can eat your friends (ingame)

[cloud flint]

I mean I suffer from weaker emotions including empathy in general

I just rationalize most things as exchanges and transactions

I see emotions and feeling as valid currencies in a relationship even though I don’t feel them particularly deeply

Can you consider that “empathy”?

[rustic dragon]

I see, that's really interesting. So sort of "I know this will hurt me later" or "my conscience feels bad because this is wrong," but he changes because it feels better for him to do the right things, not because it is better for others?

[patent veldt]

Yea precisely, he only has a conscience when he is doing an action that hurts him later. He genuinely doesn't understand what's wrong with slavery, since it resulted in society progressing fast and cheap, other than that he wouldn't like to be a slave.

It's kind of scary but I've had tons of interesting conversations with him and helped him develop a bit more of an understanding of society, which is something at least

[fresh grail]

<@&1305977291695718462> If you had a dollar for every time you didn't have a dollar, how many dollars would you have?

[stone osprey]

more than a million

[sullen comet]

this is more of a math question than a philosophy question

[cloud flint]

hi

[burnt tartan]

I love fish, I want pet eel

[fresh grail]

But if you had a dollar every time you didn't have a dollar, then you wouldn't have any times where you don't have a dollar

[stone osprey]

nah cause I put it away every time

and then I don't have a dollar

[rustic dragon]

Do you lose the dollars every time you gain a dollar?

And do you mean every time you had no dollars at all, or every time thre was a dollar you didn't have?

[fresh grail]

I guess that's a pretty philosophical question too

[cloud flint]

-topic

[gleaming estuary]

What goal do you think humanity is not focused enough on achieving?

[cloud flint]

<@&1305977291695718462>

[cloud flint]

teaching

[celest bridge]

He is incorrect. Fish are friends and friends can be eaten so are therefore food so stating that he is a friend but not food is incorrect.

[fresh grail]

Friends can be eaten?

[rustic dragon]

Getting enough sleep each night?

At least that is me the past two days

[next karma]

@agile shell are you a zionist

Heh

@agile shell

nasty

[ornate hazel]

I would have infinite yet also none

Schrodinger cat fr

[cloud flint]

-topic

[gleaming estuary]

What do you fear is hiding in the dark?

[sullen comet]

demons

i watched horror movies

took me years for me to get over the fact that there’s something lurking in the dark waiting to snatch you and torture you

even worst that i watched the conjurings 😭

[ornate hazel]

Is darkness just the absence of light?

[outer spindle]

Is cold the absence of warmth?

[patent veldt]

yea

definitionally yea

[wanton lava]

is clean the absence of dirt

[wanton lava]

money thats not being made

[gleaming estuary]

What inconsequential super power would you like to have?

[ornate hazel]

Is being maidenless the absence of women

Hmmm

[fast tapir]

-topic

[gleaming estuary]

What songs hit you with a wave of nostalgia every time you hear them?

[ancient wharf]

Those no copyright songs

The one that gets used in tutorials and things

https://tenor.com/view/superhero-unknown-brain-ncs-nocopyrightsounds-chrislinton-gif-20942789

[ornate hazel]

Them 2015 Minecraft herobrine school videos

[wanton lava]

I LOVE THOSE

[wanton lava]

YOOOOOOO I USED TO WATCH THOSE

[ancient wharf]

Yeee exactly

[ancient wharf]

Me too

[wanton lava]

i like reading but in the car or when there is no alternatives

if im studying then I can read

but in my house its kind of hard for me to read

(unless its studying)

any suggestions?

[burnt haven]

Philosophy is about widening up your perspective rather than narrowing it down with the existing facts that you have already consumed.
Widening up a deeper perspective just by ask yourself more about a certain thing and think more about how that certain thing could possibly do and if your idea is validate by others then a new fact has arise

[wanton lava]

ok

but i kinda need help

cause when I try to read i think of the alternatives and I don't

[burnt haven]

ok

[rustic dragon]

What are the alternatives you think of?

[wanton lava]

youtube

[ornate hazel]

Indeed it is my good fellow

[ornate hazel]

Huh

[ornate hazel]

Frrr it was GOATED

[sullen comet]

lol

[burnt haven]

does that mean you have a crush on me now?

https://tenor.com/view/goofy-movie-blush-gif-17553823346583229377

[ornate hazel]

What 😭

[ancient wharf]

bro fumbled

[burnt haven]

there's still a chance

[ancient wharf]

na i dont think so

specially with that gif bro

u gotta level up ur game

[burnt haven]

she's hiding her feelings

[burnt haven]

my level is perfectly fine

[ancient wharf]

she def isnt

[sullen comet]

lollll

[ancient wharf]

i dont think so

u looking like a boomer with that gif dawg

[sullen comet]

true

[ancient wharf]

see even the girl agreed

[burnt haven]

but thats a cat tho

[ancient wharf]

its still a female

[burnt haven]

based on kat's bio role, Kat is a male

[ancient wharf]

na dont look at roles

[sullen comet]

yeah

[ornate hazel]

Nah he's right

🗣🗣

[burnt haven]

why

https://tenor.com/view/i-feel-empty-without-you-me-without-you-i-miss-you-i-miss-you-so-much-i-miss-you-too-gif-12076643053331682718

[ornate hazel]

😭

[ancient wharf]

i take my words back

teach me your ways skinny orange

[burnt haven]

about what?

[ancient wharf]

the thing u just did

[burnt haven]

a gif?

idk what u mean

[ancient wharf]

reverse manipulative rizz

[sullen comet]

LOL

[coarse glade]

what is love?

[ancient wharf]

Baby don't hurt me

Love is affection towards someone

[sullen comet]

my dad

[coarse glade]

how so?

[dense bane]

thats cool

[dense bane]

i cant say for sure , but to give attention is part of the love

[sullen comet]

love is someone who cares and genuinely wants the best for you, even when he makes mistakes and have done some things. he tries his best and always improves because he wants the best for his family. my dad sacrificed a lot for me and my siblings to be standing here today and he has proven that even in the midst of the chaos in which we didn't have the best relationship.

and also my bf

[coarse glade]

i didn't know you had a bf

or did i

i don't remember

[dense bane]

yea , fun fact u can see that more when u dont live with ur parents

[sullen comet]

i've had a bf 😭

[sullen comet]

i mean you live with your parents in your childhood and teenage years

after that, it's really a choice if you want to keep that relationship with your parents when you move out

[dense bane]

i do now too but less time and our relations are better

also they teach me more or maybe im just more open than before

idk

[coarse glade]

that's true

[dense bane]

hmmmmm i think worth to keep good relations whith ur parents

feels good

just imagine how happy they are

[sullen comet]

indeed

[sullen comet]

honestly it depends

some parents are manipulative and it's just sad to see

my parents are worth keeping a relationship with cause they're really great to hangout with

[dense bane]

my mom was bit but now she dont try and we have better relations

[coarse glade]

yeah exactly

[dense bane]

i respect she

tryed to keep me on the right way

[dense bane]

i think many of them are (idk sure) (i wish that)

[sullen comet]

that's understandable. my relationship with my mom is a little complicated. it's not the worst but it's not the best. it's just how it is. i don't hate her but eh lol

[sullen comet]

most parents raise children using manipulation

it sucks to see

[dense bane]

make sense , i can understand

[dense bane]

yes :))

thats i dont blame

was realy good compared with others

[outer spindle]

😦

[sullen comet]

it’s more common than you realize, it’s just not very obvious

[ornate hazel]

Some parents are like this and their kids grow up messed up thinking it was their fault

But is it the seed or is it it's surroundings?

[sullen comet]

sometimes it's one, sometimes it's the other, and sometimes it's both. but honestly, if you had good parents, you'd know who to watch out for.

my dad is the type of person who would be skeptical of everything and i'm really grateful for him for that because he looked at things at an objective way. it didn't really help that my parents left me alone with a phone at the age of 13 during covid tho.

sometimes the seed can prevent the surrounding from corrupting the child.

[ornate hazel]

I do wonder, though, how much of it is the seed’s nature versus the surroundings. Even a strong seed can struggle to thrive if the environment is too harsh or toxic, but sometimes, as you said, the seed can resist and grow despite it. I guess it’s always a mix, and it depends on the unique combination of both

Also ps I was referencing the quote - "if a seed fails to bloom into a flower do you blame the seed or do you blame the environment" smth like that lol

We can't hate people for who they are because 80% of it depends on their upbringing

And no human can be truly evil

[stone osprey]

Kat typing the longest message in Discord history fr

[sullen comet]

i mean, well. when you first have a child: who takes the most care of the child? who does the child look up the most? who does the child cry to the most? who does the child trust the most? some of the answers will be the mother or the father and sometimes it be the babysitter if she is babysitting a lot more than the parents.

however you can control who the child interacts with. it sounds like being a helicopter parent but it's just the same as letting your child not interact with some random stranger on the street. you can always meet the parents and see if you like the parents because the parents' personality typically has an impact onto the child since they're usually the models for the child (while there are some cases where the child's models aren't the parents).

of course, you can only go so far in protecting the child in his environment but if you can have the child trust you to know that you won't judge or punish, you have a much higher rate and hope that the child will be safe because of the fact that the child can lean on the parent for advice or comfort or guidance.

it is a combination of both the seed and the environment but ultimately, the child is in the hands of the parents because of how much the parents do impact the child - it's no small number (while there are some cases that the parents don't impact the child if the child has a different parental model). at least from newborn to teenage years.

but then again, even after teenage years, the life of the child is still in the hands of the parents but well.. adulting is not easy lol and that's what we have parents for.

badum

anyway

[sullen comet]

lol you wish

[stone osprey]

that is a very long message I'm not gonna lie

[ornate hazel]

Hmmm parents absolutely have a huge influence, especially in the early years, but they’re not the only factor. You can’t control every aspect of a child’s environmentfriends, school and even random experiences play a role. The idea of trying to manage every interaction is unreslistic and, frankly, doesn’t prepare the child for real life.

Yes, trust between a parent and child is critical, but it’s not a guarantee. Even the best parents can’t always prevent outside influence or a child’s own choices from shaping who they become. At some point, it’s about equipping the child to navigate the world, not trying to shield them from it entirely

[wanton lava]

implying that it is for bad purposes
a lot of children are scared of the dark, going to buy "monster spray" is manipulation, but not bad

[sullen comet]

hmm i respond tomorrow

[fresh grail]

<@&1305977291695718462> Are cell phones more good or bad?

[sullen comet]

both

[ornate hazel]

Plim plom plim

[fresh grail]

That's not how more works

[ornate hazel]

Plom plom

[fresh grail]

It's either more good or more bad

Can't be equally more

[ornate hazel]

Plom plim?

[sullen comet]

depends how you use it

[ornate hazel]

I would say it's equal

More on the good side

[sullen comet]

there's pros and cons to it

badum

yeah

[ornate hazel]

Bing bong

[stone osprey]

I think that they offer more good than bad

[sullen comet]

yeye

[sullen comet]

ching chong

[fresh grail]

Explain

[stone osprey]

and they cannot be inherently bad because they are tools designed to help us, but how we use them can be harmful

[ornate hazel]

RACISM

[stone osprey]

cellphones themselves can't really be bad, but the way we use them can be

[sullen comet]

ikrr

i'm racist to my own race

[sullen comet]

indeed

[ornate hazel]

hah ching chong

Idk man I'm tire

[cloud flint]

It depends on perspective

Personally I think they’re more good than bad

But you could argue peoples happiness has gone down because of phones

[ornate hazel]

IF THE WORLD WAS EENDIGN ID WANNA BE NEXT
TO YOUUUUUUUUUU OOOOOHHH

[cloud flint]

Huh

[ornate hazel]

Wanna play :33

I'm crazy with monty

[cloud flint]

It’s 10:30

I got school tmrw, maybe in the afternoon tomorrow?

[ornate hazel]

Aww okay

[sullen comet]

i mean it's hard to do that if the child isn't in your sight 24/7 obviously then the child would be influence by his environment. it would be different if the child is homeschooled tho, in which the child still in clubs, sports, and interactions all the while in being in the eyes of the mother or father. they wouldn't be stepping in or interferring anything. maybe they wouldn't always keep constant attention to the child because then that would just be helicopter parenting. but to know the general people your child interacts with will give the parent the idea of who is influencing the child.

this doesn't mean you go and manage every interaction because that's just frankly unrealistic (like you said) and it's honestly isn't healthy for the child. but the least you can do is to warn the child of the type of people to look out for. the traits you should look for in a friend, and etc.

oh whoops

[sullen comet]

^

[wanton lava]

amazing

[wanton lava]

Plom plim plim

[wanton lava]

screenzen

[ornate hazel]

Plim plom plom

[wanton lava]

plom plom plom Plim

[outer spindle]

Why is language

[ancient wharf]

bro forgot the question halfway

[ornate hazel]

Hmmmmmm

I'll respond in a sec

[patent veldt]

Because.

[ornate hazel]

It has indeed been longer than a sec

[sullen comet]

lol take your time

[rustic dragon]

So I watched the last video in my watch laters, and I am really considering a zibaldone journal for 2025. It's thought to have meant "salad journal" in Italian because it was all the rage when notebooks were invented in Florence, and books were expensive, so people would pass them around and copy their favorite parts and share their journals like we share Instagram reels. How fun is that???

[outer spindle]

Tru

[patent veldt]

or is it?

(vsauce theme kicks in)

[wanton lava]

it is

[stone osprey]

it is not

I am not

[wanton lava]

but I am

[stone osprey]

I am not

[ancient wharf]

Am i?

[ornate hazel]

Hmm

[ancient wharf]

😱

[ornate hazel]

Am I truly free in the choices I make? <@&1305977291695718462>

[cloud flint]

Nah

If free will exists it’s proactive not reactive

You have the ability to change your future not your present

[wanton lava]

yeah kinda

[patent veldt]

are we just the sum of our actions, or are we something greater?

[ornate hazel]

But you can change the present no?

Like if I'm eating or smth I can go do something else

That's changing the present

[ornate hazel]

Hah both

We are shaped by our actions, but our potential and intentions make us more than what we do

[sullen comet]

indeed

[fresh grail]

You specifically, no

Everyone else yes

[sullen comet]

lol

burn

[ornate hazel]

What does that even mean 😭

[wanton lava]

sum of actions + thoughts, next

[patent veldt]

Well, I’m not sure it’s so simple

How is the sun weighted? Surely one who only thinks good things but does genuinely nothing with their life isn’t a good person

In the same way someone who does many good deeds with purely selfish motives isn’t a good person either

[wanton lava]

weighted 50/50

so if you think only good things, but don't do anything, you get 50%(C)

however I'd slide everything so that
S -100
A+ 90-100
A- 80-90
B- 60-80
C-50-60
D -40-60
F - <40

[patent veldt]

that's a slippery slope

[wanton lava]

it is

[patent veldt]

does feeling bad about doing a negative action work as a justification for said action?

because based on this, it does

[wanton lava]

true

[wanton lava]

its like a best fit line

its not perfect but for most people it will work

[outer spindle]

Why

[wanton lava]

why what

[ornate hazel]

CHAT

<@&1305977291695718462> If a person has an accident and is no longer able to contribute to society, has their value as a person decreased, increased, or stayed the same?

[burnt tartan]

It stays the same, I don't think the 'contribution' to society really dictates someone's worth or value. Horrible millionaires are often considered more 'valuable' than the average joe

[ornate hazel]

I disagree because contribution often shapes how value is perceived in society. While horrible millionaires might not be morally admirable, their influence or resources can create tangible impacts, like jobs or innovation. On the other hand, someone who doesn’t contribute might still have personal worth but is less impactful in a broader sense. Society, whether fair or not, often ties value to what someone provides or influencess

Does societal value outweigh inherent human worth when determining a person's significance?
<@&1305977291695718462>

[burnt tartan]

I disagree with that, since majorly those millionaires aren't even in it for society, they're in it for themselves, typically like most people. The level of scale and influence is different, but at the end of the day, you and I need to care about society and the impacts of the things around us, while those millionaires don't, which is why they can so easily do what they do without much thought

And just because someone can't work due to some disability, does not mean whatever they have to offer won't be valued or impactful for anyone. Society, community, small group, 1 to 1, a small impact is still a impact nonetheless, and I think many people undermine themselves a lot in that way

[ornate hazel]

I see the value in small, individual actions—supporting someone, inspiring change in a small circle, or building community connections can have profound personal impacts which is essential for relationships and local change

However, societal influence depends HEAVILY on scale. Millionaires, even if they do be acting selfishly, often create widespread ripple effects—funding industries, creating jobs, or driving innovations that shape society far more broadly than individual efforts. Their impact, whether intentional or not, reaches thousands or even millions.

I totally understand your point about individuality. This doesn’t diminish the importance of small contributions, which are invaluable in personal context, b ut the scale of influence is different, and society often values contributions based on their broader reach and tangible outcomes. Both levels matter, but they do play distinct roles in shaping the world

[cloud flint]

Deep questions but I’m too tired todat

Bye guys

[ornate hazel]

Lmao

[ornate hazel]

Which also begs this question

[wanton lava]

depends on how you define value:
if you define it as the net worth or monetary equilivant, then it decreases

[burnt haven]

I think

its time for me to comment a philosophical value

this time

oh actually

nevermind

my philosophical thought just vanish

but i recommend reading this book

which i am currently reading

[ancient wharf]

i dont need a book for this

[ornate hazel]

Lmaooo

[burnt haven]

Life without a form of struggle is also a form of suffering without purpose in life

In life, we deal with hardships and struggles in order to fulfill for our needs and if our life provides us everything that we have need and dreamed of, then... What is the purpose of our existence? Why do we exist? If we don't experience a thing called Suffering?

[sullen comet]

are we really human if we don't suffer? as humans, we make mistakes and when mistakes are made, we pay for the consequences. the consequences thus being the suffering in a sense

buh

[ornate hazel]

Life doesn’t need suffering to have purpose. Without struggles, we could focus on enjoying life, helping others, and exploring new things. Our purpose could come from love, happiness, and creating a better world, not just from overcoming hardships

[burnt haven]

fuck dont debate me on this?!? yk im right

jkkk

[ornate hazel]

Pshhhh

Some people are so ignorant sometimes

(not talking about you orange lmao)

[burnt haven]

Gladly

[sullen comet]

ahem

ooo i have an idea

what is considered a meaningful life to you? <@&1305977291695718462>

buh

[patent veldt]

well, i think we can assume that large impact on the world is a meaningful life

so that's a start

[sullen comet]

wait wait

badum

[dense bane]

I assume you mean a large positive impact which only applies to some people. Not everyone wants to have a big impact on the world and some that do want a big impact want a negative impact

It all comes down to how we individually define meaningfulness

[sturdy lake]

lmk if u ever find out 😔

[cloud flint]

one where I achieve what I set out to acheive

[outer spindle]

Do we all see the same colours?

[fresh grail]

Does it matter?

[celest bridge]

Pretty much impossible to tell. Ain't no way to figure out what the soggy bacon in your skull is doing with all that color information.

[dusty oasis]

Following God, having big purposes to strive for, reasons to get out of bed in the morning. Being help and good to others and not burden to them. Living busy but ofc not too much. Simply doing benefical stuff

[dusty oasis]

Yes it does, with no bad there cant be good. With no uncomfratable stuff there cant be enjoyable stuff. Without suffering you cant have flaws, without flaws you cant strive to something. You cant create better world if it isint broken

Is conscience real or is it all just survival insticts <@&1305977291695718462>

[celest bridge]

Did Jesus have flaws? Isn't he still good?

[dusty oasis]

He didint, he is perfect. Am talking for humans, he is God

[celest bridge]

God doesn't have flaws too, he's still good though isn't he?

[dusty oasis]

As i said we sre humans he is God its different, we are made in his image but he is still above us, better than us

[celest bridge]

Also in heaven will there be any bad? But there will still be good won't there?

[dusty oasis]

Heaven is a different place than earth, this is a broken world and broken stuff builds us up as we endure. I dont know how it is in heaven im talking about earth, which is different than heaven

[celest bridge]

Yes but you're saying that bad is inherently connected to good. If something can be completely good without bad then how does that work?

[burnt tartan]

Conscience is real but there's different forms of it that aren't just for human understanding

[dusty oasis]

Earth is not heaven as simple as that. I personally cant see how u can be halpy if everything is good but i still trust that somehow heaven is like that and works like that

[celest bridge]

But then you're saying that you can be happy without suffering in heaven? Therefore suffering is not inherently connected to experiencing something good.

[burnt tartan]

If I was to assume anything, I'd think heaven wouldn't cater much to human or heartily desires. Similar to how our minds can't process the thought of aliens from across the universe with completely different ways of living that us. Just a theory behind the thought

[dusty oasis]

As a Christian i should belive in conscience but i cant help but see how it being instics makes sense to me. Like if u heart someone close to u u will feel bad because ur relationship with someone close to you is damaged, i can see it as just tactical and survival insticts. And those insitcs arent only self related but about others aswell

[dusty oasis]

Yes, on earth it is, not everywhere tho.

I didint even think of heaven or anything like that when typing, after all i can only really speak about what i experience here

[burnt tartan]

Instincts and consciousness don't have to be separate

Mothers generally have the instinct to care for young if it benefits them, and survival. But there's also the consciousness to form bonds

[dusty oasis]

Yes, however i can see us just making conscience a separet thing from instocst tho they are simply just instincts

[celest bridge]

I'll admit that in the life we live suffering often leads to betterment but it is not because of the suffering that we get better and improve. We get better because of the side effects of suffering, not the suffering itself. When you exercise it can be almost painful, but do you get stronger because of the pain? No, no you do not. You get stronger because of the healing from the pain and whatnot but if you didn't feel said pain it would not detract from the muscle growth.

[dusty oasis]

I mean dont we form bondy because we are social creatures. Mother will form bond with child, well obivpusly to raise a child. Ppl will make bonds witj each other because they are social creatures and they are getting possoble support and help for future

[dusty oasis]

U get stronger mentally when suffering

[burnt tartan]

Some mothers don't form bonds or the desire to care for their kids. Something through various reasons

[celest bridge]

Because you're healing from it. It is not the pain that causes the growth though. And it's not just suffering that makes you get stronger. It's specific types of suffering that cause specific side effects.

And suffering and pain is also inherently bad because ya know, you can just be in pain and not grow from it. Because once again it is not the pain that causes improvement, it is the healing from pain.

Breaking bones is suffering isn't it? How can you improve yourself from breaking a bone?

How does being in a car crash that leaves you disabled result in something good?

How does literally 90% of the types of pain you can experience result in something good?

[dusty oasis]

True, that could be because of health related stuff, or bwcause they are genuinely evil and that stuff.

[celest bridge]

Something good can happen despite the pain and suffering, you can make something good out of suffering, but it is almost never a direct result of the pain and suffering.

[dusty oasis]

Becausw u go throught somethinf hard and other stuff becomes less hard. And u get humbeld and more grateful

[celest bridge]

How can you be humbled and grateful for your spouse dying in a car crash? That's suffering isn't it? But it doesn't cause anything good.

[dusty oasis]

If u dont fight it its gona swallow you yeah, exepct times when u rlly cant do anythinf abt it

[celest bridge]

Also how does depression fit into all of this? That's essentially perpetual suffering with no gain.

[dusty oasis]

You will be more grateful for others around u, more grateful for memories u ahve with your spouse. And humbeld to not let pride make u argue with yoir close one over stuff that dont need arguing because you could lose them any second you never know

[dusty oasis]

This is gona sound goffy but if u get out of it u make a great story of ur life.

U take a look bacl and see how far u come, when u fix some big probelm in ur life thats the best fwlling ever, when u come from nothing to something better. I remember times when i coildnt do a single push up now i can do 40 in a row and its good looking back

[celest bridge]

But you don't get out of depression? It's a mental problem.

[dusty oasis]

Yes you can by changing ur life

[celest bridge]

My dad has had it all of his life and has made attempts on his life several times.

He's a great man despite it, but it's not the depression that has caused him to be this way.

[dusty oasis]

Its a terrible thing but theres alwqys a wqy with no hope in this life ur done

[dusty oasis]

What is it?

[burnt tartan]

I think you can heal from depression, it's not impossible. At the very least you can go through good periods or times where life feels nicer

[celest bridge]

He's a man of a god.

[dusty oasis]

Ah, that is the main source, but i still belive suffering=good

[celest bridge]

Not really. You can work through it and not feel like you wanna die every second of the day but it's a constant struggle that you can't really get over. If you slip for a second you go back to feeling like garbage.

[celest bridge]

Question then, do you seek out suffering? If suffering=good then wouldn't you want to suffer?

[dusty oasis]

Im not in a good mental state. Better than befire amd thats because im trying, doing somewhat benefical stuff. I dont live a good life, not super awful ig, i have big flaws and because of them i feel bad mentally, u gotta fix ur flaws to feel better, someone is not depressed for no reason. U dont get cancer for no reason, stuff happens in ur body am no docotr but yeah thats simply how it goes. Amd without those flaws stuff to work on life is torture. I dont rlly have a purpose like i used to have which makes me suffer. Lets just say i was increnebly lucky to get that opportunity, unlucky to lose it and increnebly unlucky to get used to joy strivi.g for it gave. But i belive that all this suffering is gona benefit me, that it will build me up

[dusty oasis]

I mean i used to be much more disciplined, going very tierd to bed every night because i had more of a purpose in life and man was it awesome when every day has soms tensions ofc this is nothing like having family problem ajd that ofc i wont strive for that but if somwthing like that cathes someone it is benefical if person doesent let it swallow them

[celest bridge]

This is more of a side note but people do in fact have depression for no reason, or at least no reason on the part of the person. Mental health problems exist and people can have lifelong depression literally because their brains are made wrong.

[celest bridge]

It's very likely that it will build you up. But you could've also built yourself up without suffering.

[dusty oasis]

I cant see that

[dusty oasis]

How?

[celest bridge]

By practice and being a good person?

[dusty oasis]

How can i be good without there being evil

How can i help someone if there are no burdens other have and me

How can i be himble if u have no flaw and problems

[dense bane]

idk as human im evil

[celest bridge]

By not being a horrible person. I know great people who have had wonderful lives.

[dusty oasis]

Well we are actually all evil but yeah

[dense bane]

my name say what i belive

[dusty oasis]

I belive in depravity too

[celest bridge]

Why can't you see that? Could you elaborate on why you can't understand having mental illnesses that cause depression?

[dusty oasis]

There had to be problems to be great everypne has them, and for a reason

[dense bane]

til now i didnt find a philosophy who can save us

[dusty oasis]

Wdym

[celest bridge]

The reason is because their brains physically are not producing enough dopamine and other chemicals.

[dense bane]

just how i feel about myself , im a very bad human with insane thoughts sometimes

[dense bane]

sometimes i dont want to be creative

[dusty oasis]

Well i prob cant because i prob dont have something like that if ur right that its possible. But how sadddining is that thought its basically means ur forever ill from it, how can u then have hope how can u exepct to get rid of it, what is a human without hope

[celest bridge]

Yeah, it's suffering without hope, and therefore nothing can be gained from it.

[dusty oasis]

We are all wicked in Gods eyes but ur prob not very bad i genuinely doubt it if u litreally have remorse and accept it and u belive an dstrive for light(God)

[dusty oasis]

very sad. However lets be honest now im not much of a hsitory guy but ppl before were living much worse than we today and we are less happy. We are to comfratable.

[dense bane]

yes God want to save us (im the one who needs)

[dusty oasis]

All of us need God

[dense bane]

but sometimes we cant see that

[dusty oasis]

Imma come in few mins

[dusty oasis]

True

[celest bridge]

People before also had a much bigger stigma surrounding mental illness. My family has had a history of depression but due to the fact that you would essentially be beaten down for even suggesting you were sad you wouldn't talk about it. Due to the fact that we have more ways to express ourselves nowadays it is easier to see the amount of suffering that is happening everyday when before it all happened behind closed doors.

[dusty oasis]

Well u would expect then ppl back then to eventially break and end it all. But thats happening today much more. Everyome now has depression because theres no that stigma i do think it was too extreme back then but we need to be more tough

[dense bane]

thats why i think 80% of ppl with depresion dont have a goal and dont work for it

they are not sick

[dusty oasis]

Absolutely

That the whole reason ppl get depressed because they dont have a purpose

Life is to easy

[dense bane]

are some exceptions

[dense bane]

yea , it is

[dusty oasis]

Yes we all soft softies

Lol

[dense bane]

i say if life isnt easy then im weak

[dusty oasis]

Ah well life gotta be hard fpr u to not be weak

[dense bane]

i think the hard thing most of the times is just in my mind

things i like to do even if are 10 times harder feels ez

so

i just like to say life is easy

[dusty oasis]

@celest bridge im curious, are there literal studies and stuff that prove that science can track if brain doesent release enough dopamine. I domt meam talking and seeing if ppl have sings of deppresion but litrealy machines or something that tracks chemicals in brain

[dusty oasis]

Ohh true, absolutely

I make drama of stuff that i can do but i just gotta be consistent

[dusty oasis]

Ah

[dusty oasis]

Alr

[dense bane]

ye

[dense bane]

til now my life was easy , and now i dont belive ppl who say how hard is something ...

i will see , and i will try

[dusty oasis]

Lol when i uave push day imma be dying to do it even when i domt feel at best. But when i gotta do legs or stretch im like ahhh lol

[dense bane]

yea lol :)) similar

[dusty oasis]

Well life today is definetly easier than before, some ppl uave it bad i def domt and i gotta be grateful that also blessing and curse at the same time tho but its all my fault if its curse because i have resources and time to do good stuff

[dusty oasis]

Typical male stuff

Lol

[dense bane]

for me is just bc i cant find a long term goal for legs

bc i dont have that much weights

maybe 30reps BSS with 20kg is a good goal for now

[dusty oasis]

Ah, wel currently i do high rep stuff so goal for me is just to get numbers up on exercises

[dense bane]

good

[dusty oasis]

Yeh

I currently do high rep push ups, pull exercises and squats and practice handstands

[dense bane]

thats cool

[dusty oasis]

I would love to be able to do other skills tho would have to change training style, will do in future prob

[dense bane]

yes

[celest bridge]

I don't know of any specific ones but yes. There are quite a few I believe.

[dusty oasis]

What dp i google to find it lol

[celest bridge]

I was actually gonna try and link a study but I also didn't know what to google to find em.

[dusty oasis]

Ah alr, imma try to find it later, btw i enjoyed debating

[celest bridge]

Ye.

[dense bane]

i involuntary contradict and complement people

some are fine with that some dont like that

[sullen comet]

i mean God is good and the opposite of God is the devil sooo

[dense bane]

idk if is the opposite

bc isnt even close as ''strong''

ok he asked something harder

[dense bane]

i cant imagine

ngl

[celest bridge]

Yeah but does God suffer for that good? If no then suffering is not inherently required for good.

[sullen comet]

oh true

[ornate hazel]

Y'all were cooking

Time to read all of this

[ornate hazel]

Oh, so we need suffering for happiness to exist? That’s such a tired argument. Why does good only have value if there’s bad? That’s such a narrow view of human potential. We can appreciate joy, love, and fulfillment on their own merits, without having to endure pain first. If anything, clinging to the idea that suffering is necessary just perpetuates it.

And striving for something doesn’t require flaws or brokenness, it truly requires vision, curiosity, and creativity. Do you think an artist paints only to fix a blank canvas? No, they create for the sake of creating. Why can’t we pursue a better world simply because we can because we want to leave it better than we found it, not because it’s some dystopian mess we’re forced to repair? Your mindset assumes we’re incapable of evolving past suffering, which says more about your limits than life’s potential

[celest bridge]

I actually was reminded of something in regards to this topic. If someone turns out better and does good because they want to stop the cycle of abuse they were raised in does that mean that the abuse was good? Was the abuse beneficial to their childhood? The answer is no obviously. They did good despite the abuse and it was the healing that made them better. Abuse typically simply creates more abusers. If one does not heal from suffering then there is no benefit and thus suffering does not equal good. It is the healing that is good not the suffering that caused it.

[wanton lava]

no im dum

[dusty oasis]

Sufferimg gives ability to heal tho, u cant heal if theres no suffering

[dusty oasis]

To me its very simple good cant exist without bad, bad cant exist without good, how can it? Ppl were happier before tho they were in worse cicrumstances. For artist i get you but not everyone wants to do art and everyone needs some flaws some problems to function properly. If u were to get rid of suffering here we would all go insane. Our species is suffering since the begging and as much as we evolve and get rid of it we become more and more broken and thats the fact people are more sad, sensitive and stupid than ever before

[dusty oasis]

Wdym

[dusty oasis]

Also i want to add artist has tp go through sufferimg to create art

There are definetly a ton of trials in creating art so yeah

U need suffering everywhere

[sullen comet]

no lol 😭
have you never seen art made out of love, kindness, happiness, contentment?

[dusty oasis]

I mean wouldnt painting be complicated atleast in some cases unless ur da vinci level??

[sullen comet]

lol

i mean yeah

but not all

[dusty oasis]

Even da vinci prob had to struggle atleast few times i mean hes human like us

[dusty oasis]

Also beliving that suffering gives good is not a bad mindest its a powerful thing which if u belive in will always give you hope

Because then suffering isint just some torment to you, you see it as a test

[celest bridge]

Were we suffering since the beginning? If we're talking religious perspective then weren't Adam and Eve having a pretty good time before they left the garden of Eden?

[celest bridge]

Yes but that doesn't mean that the suffering itself was good because you do not improve from suffering. It requires an extra action and I feel like that's a really important factor. Even if we are going by the logic of you can't have good without bad that still doesn't mean that the suffering itself is good.

[dense bane]

if they say something and is cot complet i complement their point

[dense bane]

suffering = love

my opinion

[celest bridge]

Some of my best art is based on love and it's not like practicing art is suffering. Struggling to make a new art piece doesn't mean I'm suffering through it, it just means it isn't easy.

[dense bane]

if is not easy is some suffering

[celest bridge]

No?

[dense bane]

now i dont like art just if have sense

[dense bane]

u need to suffer if u want to be elite in any thing

art sport work etc

[celest bridge]

I have not suffered through art. Certainly it is not easy but essentially every moment of it I have enjoyed.

[dense bane]

u should to enjoy the final thing sure

we have both

sometimes we enjoy somethimes is so sad

when things dont looks how should

[celest bridge]

Yes but unless your mindset is wack that isn't suffering. If something doesn't look right you can just try again and work harder.

[dusty oasis]

I meant more from evolution side of things

[dusty oasis]

Yes it is good because it give ability to do an action that improves you, healing, but even in process of siffering u lesrn a lot u could be groing throught a long trial of pain in life and everydays be learning lessons slowly getting out of it

[dusty oasis]

True

[sullen comet]

uhh is it really love if you're suffering in the relationship?

[dusty oasis]

It is tehnically suffering but yeah not on level of losing a loved one ofc

[sullen comet]

"suffering" as a word is extreme

[dusty oasis]

I think he means more like parents suffering for child whwn taking care of it because they love it

[celest bridge]

Okay now I'm confused. What on earth do we even mean by suffering then? Cause difficulty does not equal suffering.

[dusty oasis]

Personally ot all varies from person to person i get most joy out of something if it was very hard ans i did it

[sullen comet]

they don't love the child because they love the suffering? they just love a child that they're willing to lose a bit

[dusty oasis]

Ok i was being extreme yeah i was looking at every single trial like a suffering lol

[dusty oasis]

Yeah but i think he means it in a way that love is suffering for someone if needed

[sullen comet]

oh yeah of course. it wouldn't be love if you weren't willing to sacrifice something

[celest bridge]

Yeah cause that is simply not the case. You can struggle and even experience pain without inherently suffering.

[dusty oasis]

Well it could be sligbt suffer8ng if u dont keep getting better for a long time and keep doing it, or if u somehow lose art u worked on hard and still keep going

[dense bane]

depends the situation

[dusty oasis]

I agree, i agree that in some cases you can get joy without suffering but in a lot of cases with suffering to therefore suffering isint bad

[dense bane]

^

[dusty oasis]

Yeah

[celest bridge]

I was not speaking of art from the perspective of everyone I was speaking from my own perspective. And the fact that I am not suffering through it means that it is not a requirement for art.

[dusty oasis]

Of i read this right, u complement them before they complete their point?

[sullen comet]

er- i would leave the relationship if it's causing me to suffer ;-;
there will be times of sadness in relationships cause of mistakes and such but nothing that would (or should) mess the relationship up in a long run

[celest bridge]

Also of course in everything there is suffering, we are human, but that still doesn't make the suffering good.

[sullen comet]

it wouldn't exactly be a hobby of yours if you didn't enjoy art lol

[dusty oasis]

Alr, but suffering through art can be good in certian situations, as i said like not getting better for a long time, it tests your patience and willingness to continue

[celest bridge]

Ye. I absolutely love art. One of my best coping mechanisms.

[sullen comet]

yess I love art as well. i love looking at what artists have created. it's just really beautiful how we can translate a bunch of scribbles into these masterpieces

[celest bridge]

Just cause suffering can lead to good experiences doesn't mean that the suffering itself was good.

[dusty oasis]

I genuinely dont understand how if it can cause good, suffering gives u a ton of potebtional in future because of lessons u learn. Its the thibg that gives a lot of wisdom. Like if ur in a war on a batelfield i bet those ppl learn a lot everydays, wisdom wise

[celest bridge]

If a cat is stuck in a tree and someone gets it down that is a good action, correct? So are cats being stuck in trees a good thing?

[dense bane]

no after

[dusty oasis]

No, i have to admit, whole time im talking abt human experience tho. However this is kinda goffy but cat could learn a lesson to be more careful in future lol

[dusty oasis]

Whats wrong with that?

[dense bane]

if they are sick ?

[dense bane]

nothing realy

[dusty oasis]

Lol

[dense bane]

some just dont like

[sullen comet]

yes. except if you're in war, you're going to have PTSD from seeing hundreds of people dying on battlefields. the results of the suffering can be good but there's a downside to it 99% of the time

[dusty oasis]

I mean then try to not i recommend not thinking abt not trying to do because than ur prob do it more cuz ur thinling abt it lol

[dense bane]

suffering for good

[sullen comet]

uhh mentally? yeahh ig?

[dense bane]

dont be stupid

[dense bane]

no , u need to take care of others

[dusty oasis]

Yes, true abt PTSD i did not think abt that, i do be making myself wrong here to myself lol

[sullen comet]

war is never good

[dense bane]

and sometimes is some suffering

[dense bane]

yes , i said to suffer for good things not bad ones

[dusty oasis]

But in less extreme situatuons than war its good

[dense bane]

how ?

[sullen comet]

depends. some relationships requires you to take a step back instead of a step forward - especially if your mental health is also being affected by them

[dusty oasis]

For example while maybe living with fimancial problems u will leaen how to use money better and become more thankful for stuff

And humble

[celest bridge]

I feel like the most important factor here is suffering can cause a good thing. Suffering often doesn't though and if it was good inherently then I feel like that's a contradiction.

[dense bane]

here depends , we need specificity

in that case

[dusty oasis]

Its not good always but definetly can be thats my whole point

[dense bane]

i see

[dusty oasis]

And it can create great potential

[dense bane]

yes

[dusty oasis]

Ppl that went through hell on earth are ones that are most inspirational

[sullen comet]

let's say someone is suicidal and she's suicidal 24/7 and talking about suicide all the time. she can have the affect on you. this is what happened to me when i was 14 and i first had disord

[dense bane]

im just to weak so suffering is good for me

[dusty oasis]

We all are

[dense bane]

"lets be chill , thats not a solution"

what i will say

and why to suicide ?

[celest bridge]

Can cause. It can be good. That doesn't mean it's good though. You can make it good despite how bad it is but that doesn't mean that it was good in the first place. The biggest blessing you can have is not going through it to begin with.

[sullen comet]

well i was 14 💀

😭

[dense bane]

how extreme was ur life :/

[sullen comet]

enough to make me numb every morning when i wake up and have a hard time crying even when i want to most of the time lol

[celest bridge]

People who fight criminals are seen as heroes, but that doesn't mean that the criminals are good are they?

[dense bane]

sad

[dusty oasis]

I mean if u dont go turough bad ur gona suffer here, its gona be very boring. Suffering always has ability to give you good, but its not if it swallows you yeah. And if its huge suffering that messed u up like war than its bad i would say

[dusty oasis]

I struggle to cry lol

Tho i want to sometimes

[celest bridge]

So suffering isn't inherently good? And it's the healing afterwards that's good?

[dusty oasis]

Thats not at all what im displaying. Im talking abt personal struggles

[celest bridge]

I'm just using it as an example.

[dusty oasis]

And i agree with that example

[dense bane]

suffering is good if u know how to mannage it

[dusty oasis]

That crimibals are not good

[dense bane]

my opinion

[sullen comet]

PFT, that's like saying depression is good if you know how to manage it 💀

[dusty oasis]

Yeah, however some is too kuch so it will break u atleats somewhat like war if u seen bad stuff in it ofc

[dense bane]

we cant avoid suffering so yes

sure is important to do all u can to avoid it

if u can

but we cant control much

[dusty oasis]

Suffering can always give good if u go throught it. Every single one will give u wisdom, however extreme ones more bad than good in most cases. Thats what i belive. While suffering u can get postige stuff, wisdom so it is good

[sullen comet]

uhh not everyone will get depression but i see what you mean

[dense bane]

war is 😭

[dense bane]

i understand what u say , dont stay in a bad relationship (if thats realy bad)

we can avoid some stuff

[sullen comet]

you can also get wisdom without going through suffering lol

[dense bane]

yes and no

[dusty oasis]

Doesent mean everyone in war sees bad stuff, my father from what he told didint see super awful stuff if amy awful so yeah hes good mentally

[sullen comet]

not like we go through war to learn the stuff about the book from Art of War

[dense bane]

we need some suffering

is a must

[dense bane]

at all is not

[dusty oasis]

If u suffered u appreciated wisdom much more. Theres reason why little kids arent talking abt wisdom lol

[dense bane]

war is shit

[celest bridge]

Okay I feel like we've reached a stalemate here. I'm gonna be off.

[sullen comet]

i mean yeah, it's inevitable. i'm sure we all cried from not getting something we wanted when our mom said no lol

[sullen comet]

Bye Cuttlefish

[dense bane]

lol , now life is ur mom :))

[sullen comet]

lol real

[dusty oasis]

Nah, i mean with awful like seeing someone get killed in front of u, im heard he hear a lot of gunshots, bombs and stuff ofc thats bad thats suffeeing to go through a forrest and hear gunshots around u

[dense bane]

just our opinions , i dont want to be annoying

[dusty oasis]

Yes, i never said we need to go to war, thats a last option

[dense bane]

last = the worst

[dusty oasis]

Yeah lol

[dusty oasis]

Yes

[dense bane]

i see , but some do

[dusty oasis]

What some do, im lost a bit lol

[dense bane]

war is bad even if u dont see awful things

some see them

[sullen comet]

war is never good honestly

[dusty oasis]

Yes ot can bring good tho, wisdom and that

[dense bane]

never ever

[dusty oasis]

However more bad than good

So must be avoided

[sullen comet]

you don't need to go to war to have that kind of wisdom

[dense bane]

just strenght to keep doing even in hell

[sullen comet]

you just need to know what it's like to see someone die in front of you

[dense bane]

but

[dusty oasis]

In conclusion extreme suffering is overall bad, and other is overall good

[sullen comet]

suffering is never good lol

[dense bane]

is good , teach us

[dusty oasis]

Really, those ppl are the bravest ones those understand stuff more than any of us softies imo

However its not worth it

Because of bad stuff

No suffering would cause huge suffering

[sullen comet]

hmm ig so

[dense bane]

when i was 17 yo i suffered bc my life was without purpose so i learned how to live better and i got more wisdom (im still stupid)

[sullen comet]

well there are some things you only understand through trials

or experience

[dusty oasis]

Yep

[dense bane]

is nice to suffer for a purpose that worth in ur eyes

is less suffering

than without one

[sullen comet]

anyway

enough of my sob story

i feel like an attention seeker now 💀

[sullen comet]

indeed

[dense bane]

make sense , be strong keep heal

we all shit noone is better

[dusty oasis]

Yes when i was tierd striving twoards achiving one of my goals that i sadly lost those were some of my best times, i mean it gve a lot of joy, that was my prime happines wise lol

[celest bridge]

Bad friend groups suck. I always thought I just hated people growing up before I realized that no, I just mostly surrounded myself with people I don't like and there are actually people who I enjoy the company of.

[dense bane]

:)) yes

[dusty oasis]

We all are, thats a literal fact whoever disagress is lying to himslef

[sullen comet]

indeed
that's understandable
i used to be like that as well

[dusty oasis]

Attention seekers i mean

[sullen comet]

oh

[celest bridge]

Also I kinda sucked as a person as well. I'm still learning how to not be a garbage human being.

[dense bane]

i agree , but these school kids teach u to have a reasonable self esteem

they are not better

[sullen comet]

yeah of course. we all desire to have some attention
honestly just a matter if your intention of talking to a particular person is specifically because you're doing it for attention or because you genuinely want to talk to them

[sullen comet]

honestly same

[dense bane]

environmental change (friends , media , goals) makes a big diff

[sullen comet]

indeed

who you surround yourself with really have a huge impact

[dense bane]

yes

i see that in my life

and works

[dusty oasis]

Yes, i must say now that i am sadder than before i havs the most desire for attention than before so from personal experience im happiest when i focus the least on attention so thats whaz i should strive for its prob same for most i mean it makes sense. I mean those rude ppl are like it because they want to get reaction out of u so they feel better

However i also kinda want more respect cuz of my low self esteem

However there are obivous reason im like this, i got stuff to fix

[dense bane]

yes me with HSPUs pull-ups etc

just imagine someone looks a u and what to become like u

[dusty oasis]

Absolutely if someone gets under ur skin thats very bad, sadly happening to me, truly shouldnt

[dense bane]

:))

ok i have to work more

[dusty oasis]

Lol i litreally daydream abt being able to planche and do those skills so i get attention and respect

[dense bane]

:))

mine is more to get strong

sure a PL will dont be a good goal

[dusty oasis]

Ah

[dense bane]

but for me PL is just good to have

[dusty oasis]

O its awesome it looks so cool

[dense bane]

(u know ppl ask about it too much)

[dense bane]

:))

[sullen comet]

understandable lol

[dense bane]

also i show my work :))

[sullen comet]

me who intentionally finds people who gets under my skin to learn how to deal with people like them an increase my patience tolerance:

[dense bane]

i just did today

[dusty oasis]

Im gona try to strive for it becazse of attention gain asl least as possible cuz imma be happier then

[dusty oasis]

I mean you do you ig if u find it helping u lol gl

[sullen comet]

lol i mean kids can be annoying so i gotta learn how to be patient so i can learn to tolerant them when they need me as a mother

just preparing myself for motherhood

[dusty oasis]

Smart

[dense bane]

patient but some things should be taxed

[dusty oasis]

is conscience a real thing <@&1305977291695718462>

[sullen comet]

oh yeah of course, i'm careful with it haha

[sullen comet]

yes

[dusty oasis]

for a lot of scenarios i can think that its simply just instincts, both self and others related but then again sometimes i feel bad for something tho it is not related to me or others of my species (animals) so it cant be tactical thinking, instincts

[dusty oasis]

u can think that lying is simply wrong because it ruins trust, tactically speaking u could lose close ppl that are help to u, same u can say for killing, stealing ect. U could say that if u hurt someone u will feel bad because ur simply hurting someone important to u, possibly ruining relationship, because of it feelling both bad for yourself and them. But then why do we find hurting animals if we dont need to wrong, i thought we feel bad beacuse we are wasting time for nothing, just causing pain, but then again if u accidentally hurt an animal ur not like oh no i lost time, u actually feel bad for it tho from survival point of view you shouldn't because it is not your species. and everywhere on earth torturing animals for no reason is found wrong

[sullen comet]

i'm not in the mood to debate atm lol

[dusty oasis]

alr lol

[cloud flint]

“Real” as defined by science or perception

Conscience is immeasurable as far as I know so scientifically no, but I feel like I have conscience so yes from my perception

[fresh grail]

<@&1305977291695718462> Is deja vu?

[burnt haven]

there is no such thing is Perfect

[celest bridge]

I feel like this is wrong. Sure on the bigger scale perfection is almost impossible to achieve but if you look smaller perfection is easier and very much plausible. Also depends on what you mean by perfect.

[dense bane]

both

[dense bane]

intersting , but we still can make decisions

[rustic dragon]

There is a difference between being unproven by science, and real. Science itself, and theories of how we came to be don't even prove that our senses are reliable - We infer it by our experiences, and science relies on that for us to even use the scientific method. So in the conversation of whether conscience is "real," I think it's important to remember that science is one mode of studying the world and finding truth, not the only one.

(For instance, science might say that my room is warm because [insert very long explanation of a heating system], where its quite as true to say the house is warm because we set the thermostat where we are comfortable.)

[cloud flint]

Isn’t free will the ability to make decisions?

[cloud flint]

It depends on what you consider real, if perception is reality perhaps

But science is about measuring and finding correlations and relationships so we can take advantage of them, like how we gleaned that penicillin kills bacteria therefore can be used to cure ailments in the body

If you can’t measure or act on something consistently, it’s almost as it doesn’t exist.

According to science

Which is why I don’t think conscience exists

I feel like I have it, but I don’t know if others feel it or how it works, and how I can manipulate it

Therefore it’s inconsequential to my existence

I cannot test, theorize, or act on it

[rustic dragon]

I see! How do you think about things like friendship and such, then?

[cloud flint]

I can measure friendship

[dense bane]

i dont understand

[cloud flint]

If I’m nice to someone, usually their nice to me, ect

[dense bane]

i think is more than that

[cloud flint]

Sociology is a branch of science

[dense bane]

no , some things exist and we dont know

and we cant measure them

[cloud flint]

You can measure and act on what social queues and tells

[dense bane]

how u measure ?

[cloud flint]

How did this person react to my actions?

In a scientific setting you could measure levels of horomones

[cloud flint]

If you can’t act on something and get consistent results than it’s inconsequential

[dense bane]

depends

[dense bane]

depends what he have in head

[cloud flint]

For example, I know if I let go of an object it will fall without support

It’s actionable and measurable

I can also act on the fact people like praise

I can measure reactions

[dense bane]

something like dark matter

[cloud flint]

And figure out how to best create relationships

[dense bane]

thats basic

[cloud flint]

Thats why it’s theoretical

[cloud flint]

Complex things are the sum of many simple ones. Planes work due to multiple simple principles

[dense bane]

i 100% agree

but some things cant get good results

too many variables

[cloud flint]

Chaos theory fr

But we know there is a relationship, just not the specifics

Like with dark matter again we can hypothesize on it’s properties by how it interacts with gravity

Though we have no proof

[dense bane]

yes

[cloud flint]

Something which is intangible, dark matter is somehow still measurable and can further our understanding of physics

Crazy

[dense bane]

yep

[burnt haven]

the world itself (all life) aint perfect since it always changing if it was, the world stays the same not always shifting/changing

Perfect is just a term of remark

not the thing itself

it only exist by remark

https://tenor.com/view/fire-writing-gif-2088247993237804628

[celest bridge]

I've seen a couple religious people in this chat and I was curious about something. Would you say I deserve eternal torture?

[dense bane]

i do

is not my problem to judge others

[celest bridge]

Can you elaborate on that?

[dense bane]

God know others

[celest bridge]

So you're just saying it's not up to you to say if I deserve eternal punishment?

[dense bane]

yes

[celest bridge]

Okay, lemme reword my statement then.

I'm a non-believer. According to your god, non-believers deserve eternal torture, correct? Do you agree with your god that I deserve eternal torture?

[dense bane]

God does what he wants , cant be wrong

i deserve eternal torture

we all does

[burnt haven]

I dont think so

from my human perspective, people only deserve divine punishment, when they committed a sin that it is too evil

that can affect the life of any living things

negatively

or if they commit a sin by disrespecting someone's religion harshly

[fresh grail]

Depends what you did

If you called someone on speakerphone in a crowded elevator, yes

[sullen comet]

some would say yes. some would say no. honestly depends who you ask tbh

[patent veldt]

Doesn’t the honestly imply tbh? Are both necessary?

Lol

[sullen comet]

shhh

i just tend to add unnecessary words for some reason lol

[patent veldt]

same girl

all good, thought it was funny

[celest bridge]

This was more intended as a personal question not a just in general question.

[burnt haven]

at the end, there's no valid answers - just opinions

the only way to find out is to experience the end point of life and meet the Death Point

[ancient wharf]

Yes

[cloud flint]

Man god is such a goofer for being so obtuse

[stone osprey]

if you were an angle, you'd be acute 🥰