PHILOSOPHY CHANNEL

[sullen comet]

no, don't try to please your parents. don't try to please anyone. do it for yourself, not for your parents because the moment you fail to please your parents, you'll have some bad thoughts or try to do better. but i had some bad experience imo so ig it could be different for you but idk

[wanton lava]

It depends though

if his parents are in his best interest then they can see blind spots

[ancient wharf]

hmm yes i will keep that into consideration

[sullen comet]

indeed

[sullen comet]

is it good or bad to gossip?

[ancient wharf]

Depends on the topic and person

[sullen comet]

whats the definition of gossip?

[ancient wharf]

To discuss something thoroughly

Shit im bad with philosophy

[fresh grail]

Imo gossip is talking about other people when they're not there

It could be positive (did you hear that guy just got named king of the universe) or negative (his nose is upside down what a loser)

[ancient wharf]

Oh its like backbiting

I dont like backbiting

[ornate hazel]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DB_wcohqqT9/?igsh=MTV0bGo1eGl6anNjNA==

lawrencealibay

Guts vs Griffith

Likes

300180

Instagram

This is a cool question

[ornate hazel]

Nahh

Karma exists

The question I always ask myself is

"Would I want someone to do/say something like that about me?"

Answer is probably not

[sullen comet]

what if it didn’t

[sullen comet]

uhhh that would just be a deep conversation lol

@ancient wharf @fresh grail
so gossip in definition is a bit subjective because there was a whole lot of different definitions of it when i searched it up on google but here’s some that we can settle on for now so the conversation doesn’t go wild

[ornate hazel]

I mean

If you’re okay with people talking behind your back, go ahead and gossip. Otherwise you should probably stay out of it lol

[fresh grail]

Hey that's my definition

What are the odds

[sullen comet]

lol

[sullen comet]

pftt, so you basically stick by the golden rule

is it possible to not judge or have an impression on people?

[fresh grail]

I think it's impossible to not have a first impression of someone just because biologically people are wired to make snap judgements. I do think that someone could definitely ignore their first impression and act without judgement, but I don't think it's possible to go in without a judgement

[ornate hazel]

What do you think lol

You always asking the questions but never answering them

[sullen comet]

lol

[sullen comet]

i like asking questions than answering them

haha

[sullen comet]

understandable

i can see how you came to that conclusion

[sullen comet]

subconsciously, you will always have a judgement about someone, but conscoiusly, you have a choice. you can make a first impression about someone and then ignore that first impression and treat that person like you would with anyone else.

so, to an extent, it's possible

[fresh grail]

https://tenor.com/view/atla-avatar-the-last-airbender-iroh-zuko-who-are-you-gif-15911223341318648700

[fresh grail]

It's possible to ignore your first impression. It's not possible to not have one

[sullen comet]

LOL

[sullen comet]

basically

[fresh grail]

So we agree

[sullen comet]

yeah

pretty much

[wanton lava]

why do people hate Roblox

it's the greatest game

a billion user made games all accessible

you can make money from it too

[fresh grail]

Because it's mostly kids and kids are annoying

[wanton lava]

theres plenty of quality games

besides you only need 1 good game for it to qualify

and there is a few

[sullen comet]

probably the people than the actual gameplay

[celest bridge]

It's somewhat hard to find the good ones though.

Haven't really played much Roblox and although it definitely isn't bad enough to be hated it's kinda mediocre imo.

Just from what I've seen though.

[wanton lava]

I've been a dev and a player for awhile

I returned to it after a few years and was suprised

there is a lot of good games now

and gambling

[gusty ermine]

Wow, an actually good philosophical question in philosophy? Am I dreaming?

[gusty ermine]

No, I would not. This is the modified trolley problem

Not only because they're my loved one so I'm less inclined to kill them, I wouldn't kill any one, stranger or loved one, even if it saved 1 million people

If you can be persuaded to kill or do something unethical in the same utilitarianism, then you can be persuaded to do anything

what if a terrorist asks you to bomb a city in exchange of saving a country? You do that and then your hands are dirty, even if you "saved" hundreds of millions of people

Also, by killing someone, you are actively involved in their murder, whereas if the 100 people died, you weren't involved at all

all this is just philosophy obv, in an actual situation like that I'd probably freeze and breakdown

[sullen comet]

true

i could never honestly

if anything, i would sacrifice a million people to save him

anyway

new question

is corporal punishment effective? why or why not?

( just noticed that most of my questions aren't really philospical lol, they're either psychological or fit some other category)

[gusty ermine]

then the question comes back, no? The roles are just reversed

How many people are you wiling to sacrifice to save your loved one?

[sullen comet]

everyone

[gusty ermine]

so everyone in the world including your parents, siblings, friends, teachers, dogs, and cats?

[sullen comet]

it will honestly be a great burden to carry but one i'll be willing to make

[sullen comet]

yes

[gusty ermine]

hm

End of Evangelion

was that

kind of

[sullen comet]

no idea

[gusty ermine]

yeah in the end the protagonist killed himself, i think

[sullen comet]

dang

spoiler alert (i'm never gonna watch the anime lol)

[gusty ermine]

you don't have to

[sullen comet]

indeed

[sturdy lake]

what am i gonna do w 100 strangers

i hope their family dont find out tho 👀 whatever it is i did

[fresh grail]

It's very effective, 100% of people who got the death penalty never committed another crime

[sullen comet]

LOL

[gusty ermine]

I think you confused corporal punishment for capital punishment

[fresh grail]

What's the difference

[gusty ermine]

capital punishment = death penalty
corporal punishment = beatings given to children for discipline (could also be used for crime)

[fresh grail]

Capital punishment is more effective

[stone osprey]

wow, sounds like you're really lucky and he's pretty lucky to have someone who loves him as much as it sounds you do.

[sullen comet]

yeah, i really am lucky to have such a man in my life. never thought i'd be able to meet a person like him tbh

[stone osprey]

that's really cool!

do you know if he feels the same about you?

[sullen comet]

tbh, i still have some doubt about it but ik he does. it mostly just the voice talking otherwise lol

[stone osprey]

that makes sense. The brain likes to lie to you a lot

[sullen comet]

nah it's not really my brain. there's a voice in my head and it likes to talkitalkitalk

[stone osprey]

schizophrenia?

[sullen comet]

nah

i hope not

[stone osprey]

hm

[fresh grail]

👀

[ancient wharf]

Its not scizo bro

I also have it

[stone osprey]

you also have schizophrenia

[ancient wharf]

And im pretty sure every people have it

No whaat

[stone osprey]

nah you both just have schizophrenia

noted

[ancient wharf]

Nah fr is that called scizo?

[sullen comet]

LOL

[stone osprey]

if you have a voice talking to you in your head that you feel is not your own

then yeah, you probably have schizophrenia

[sullen comet]

i'm not being serious btw

[stone osprey]

Haseeb is though

[ancient wharf]

I talk to myself

[sullen comet]

alr

well

[ancient wharf]

But its me

[stone osprey]

bro just found out he might have schizophrenia in a Discord chat 💀

[sullen comet]

LOL

ahhaha

imagine

[stone osprey]

rip Haseeb

[ancient wharf]

Nooo i dont think so man

[stone osprey]

well I mean

you can get checked if you ever think you might have it

[ancient wharf]

Nah i aint doin allat

I like having it

[sullen comet]

dont self diagnose even if you do actually have it 😭

[ancient wharf]

Idk lets end this convo im getting confused

[sullen comet]

alr lol

is shyness a personality trait or anxiety?

[stone osprey]

what are you lookin at

👀

[gusty ermine]

that's internal monologue and a lot of people don't have it

[ancient wharf]

Oh

How do they not have it man

[gusty ermine]

you also don't have it for every thing, I bet

you know when you sometimes think of something based on your emotions rather than words?

that's how they have it for everything

[ancient wharf]

Ohh

I have it when i lay down to sleep

All tired at night

But i can talk to it anytime tho

[jade star]

As long as you dont start believing its another entity its all good

[ancient wharf]

Nah nothing like that

[ornate hazel]

A true philosophy question is one where no answer is wrong

It's so cool

[ornate hazel]

So you'd rather sit back and let 100 people die just to keep your hands "clean"? That's not moral high ground; that's cowardice disguised as virtue. Refusing to act when you could save lives doesn’t make you innocent it reallymakes you responsible for every preventable death. Morality isn’t about protecting your conscience; it’s about doing what’s right, even when it’s hard

[ornate hazel]

Same lmaooo

[ornate hazel]

Talking to yourself is normal

Like

I talk to myself everyday

As in have a conversation with myself

Idk why i do it but it just feels good

[ancient wharf]

Yeah exactly

[ornate hazel]

Yeah it's like there's someone you can tell your problems to 😭

Man I feel so schizo rn

[gusty ermine]

Nope, it is not about letting 100 people die but rather than actively taking the life of someone who otherwise wouldn't have died, so it is moral high ground. To save some people who are going to die anyway, you actively steal someone's right to life. You aren't doing any good.

[ornate hazel]

Yeah but

[gusty ermine]

if you don't kill anyone, you were never involved, those people did not die because of you

but if you kill someone, someone died because of you

murder is only in the 2nd option

[ornate hazel]

Letting 100 people die to avoid making a difficult choice doesn’t make you morally superior; it’s just choosing inaction over responsibility. Those lives aren’t lost to fate—they’re lost because you’d rather avoid taking a difficult step to save them. Sometimes, real morality means making hard choices to prevent greater harm, not just standing by to protect your conscience

Bro 😭

So you would let 100 people die because you don't wanna get your hands dirty

[gusty ermine]

I think you're confusing only one action as taking a choice rather than accepting that not taking one life IS making that difficult choice

if only one answer that is saving those 100 people is making the difficult choice then that is not a choice

me not killing the one person IS my difficult choice

[gusty ermine]

morality is not a numbers game btw

[ornate hazel]

My brother

Saying "not killing is my choice" is just an excuse to dodge responsibility. The actual hard choice isn’t refusing to act it’s stepping up to save lives, even when it’s uncomfortable. Letting 100 people die to keep your hands clean isn’t moral strength it’s selfpreservation disguised as virtue

[jade star]

This reminds me of fate zero where the same question was asked to the main character

He chose to kill the one though

[ornate hazel]

Morality isn’t about numbers, but it’s also not about ignoring consequences. Letting more people die just to feel “pure” isn’t moral—it’s putely selfish

[ornate hazel]

Is it a good show i was thinking of watching it but idk

[jade star]

Maybe now i convinced you lol

The mc there is amazing

[ornate hazel]

Hmm

[gusty ermine]

you're focusing on the wrong thing. You're focusing on the internal aspect of choosing to kill, rather than the external aspect of taking a life. Mortality is about the external aspect, not the internal. You're focusing on "keeping hands clean" when it is actually about the other person who is being killed, not you

the other person had nothing to do in this, yet you chose to steal their life away

that is morally wrong

the 100 people were already involved

[jade star]

I think you are ignoring the fact that unless you do this 100 people die

So its kinda hard to just say no to letting them die

[gusty ermine]

that is the default. Saying that you actively kill someone who has nothing to do with any of this to save 100 people who were already dying isn't morally superior, I would argue it's morally inferior

[jade star]

But the fact they are dying isnt set in stone

[ornate hazel]

You're completely missing the point. You're fixating on the idea of taking a life, but what you're really ignoring is the bigger moral failure of choosing inaction and allowing 100 people to die. The external aspect of mortality you're so obsessed with doesn’t change the fact that your inaction leads to more suffering. Choosing not to act isn't some neutral stance—it's a decision tao let people die for your own comfort, and that's the real moral dailure

Failure*

[jade star]

You are implying that you not choosing is superior cause they were meant to die or something

I can also argue thats morally worse

[ornate hazel]

FR

Fun debate

[jade star]

I swear you are gonna love fate zero if you like this one

Its only like 24 eps

[ancient wharf]

This shit got me thinking if i actually have scizo

[ornate hazel]

Atleast you aren't depressed? 😭

[ornate hazel]

Alrr

I'll watch it

[ancient wharf]

Yeahhhh lets look at the bright side

[jade star]

Lemme explain

[ancient wharf]

I dont like sad

[jade star]

Schizoid is both bipolar and schizo

[ancient wharf]

Oh

[jade star]

Plus being hypomanic is a bipolar thing

Lemme do it

[gusty ermine]

What is morality? It's not about what's best for the majority of people, if that was the case, then minorities shouldn't matter at all, but the fact of the matter is, they do, and that's because of morality. You can't just sacrifice some people for the rest, it's not morality, it's being an indifferent asshole to the minorities.

Morality is about ensuring that everyone's fundamental rights as a human being aren't stolen away from them, you stealing them away is what makes you a criminal, and it's called a crime because it is morally hollow, whether it be the right to life, speech, expression, whatever.

Let me ask you this, you're going to spend a lot of money on your kids/partner and they are going to consume a lot of resources as well, would you instead then kill your parents/child/partner and save all that money to spend it for some charity about saving kids in Gaza?

[ornate hazel]

Damn

[ornate hazel]

I need to think on this one

[sullen comet]

good conversation

[sullen comet]

Is morality relative or absolute?

[stone osprey]

relative

something objective can't be absolute... I think

[celest bridge]

I'd say it's relative. Imo the only way there could be an objective morality is if a god exists and even then it's iffy.

[fresh grail]

Therefore you are

[stone osprey]

but what if you are

[ornate hazel]

well your question is a false comparison

Providing for your family is not the same as choosing to save 100 lives over one. Your analogy falls flat because it mixes up personal responsibility and direct harm. We’re lit talking about an active choice where you have the power to save 100 lives by sacrificing one, not choosing between feeding your family or donating money. It’s about preventing MASSIVE loss, nort playing favorites. If you had a choice to save a hundred kids or let them die just to avoid feeling guilty about sacrificing one, you’d be the one who’s morally bankrupt. Your refusal to act isn’t protecting anyone’s rights, it’s just allowing suffering for your own sensw of purity

I see where you are coming from but

Actually wait I don't see at all

[fresh grail]

I know I am but are you

[stone osprey]

I am absolute

I am the alpha and the omega

[fresh grail]

I am the terror that flaps in the night

[stone osprey]

as the Greeks would say

[fresh grail]

I am the nails on the chalkboard of evil

I am Darkwing Duck!

[stone osprey]

I'll be the monster in your bed tonight

[fresh grail]

@reef star might be old enough to get that reference

[stone osprey]

I get the reference

and I'm very proud of it

[fresh grail]

I'm proud of you too

[stone osprey]

my 4th grade teacher would put that on for us to watch some days

it was so epic

my 4th grade teacher is the best teacher in the world fr

[sullen comet]

oh? that's so sweet

[dense bane]

There is a channel for Philosophy?

[sullen comet]

yeah

well

[dense bane]

I don’t think there is an emoji that can express this amount of joy

[sullen comet]

it's a forum but it's the same thing

[sullen comet]

fr

did you have a question?

[dense bane]

No, I just learned about this forum

And I’m happy

[sullen comet]

oh lol

welcome then :]

[reef star]

A few members have really liked it

[dense bane]

I’m currently working my way through the complete works of Friedrich Nietzsche. Slowly but surely making my way through the 4k pages of his work

[burnt tartan]

damn what was that previous topic

[burnt tartan]

mf you not schizo

[burnt tartan]

hell nah

[burnt tartan]

you'd have a fire page in historys books and possibly some phonk edits made of you

fair trade

[ornate hazel]

Fym hell nah 😭

[burnt tartan]

wait

i mean hell yeah

wait

no

hell nah

fuck them strangers

[ornate hazel]

FYM

[fresh grail]

If the world was flat would that make people mountains?

[ornate hazel]

That person you kill for the 100 people is also a stranger tho

[burnt tartan]

self preservation, i aint saving no random people, who knows what they be like

[burnt tartan]

but they someone i love

which not a stranger

[ornate hazel]

That's not the question tho

[burnt tartan]

i dont be loving strangers, thats creepy and parasocial

oh

[burnt tartan]

..lemme reread it

YEAH IT IS IT

[ornate hazel]

It's a gamble fr

[burnt tartan]

i save who i love

fuck them strangers

[ornate hazel]

Huh

Where

Link

OH

[fresh grail]

But love your fellow as you love yourself

[ornate hazel]

IVE BEEN ON THE WRONG SIDE THIS ENTIRE TIME

NOOOO

[burnt tartan]

LMAO

[ornate hazel]

FUCK THEM STRANGERS RAHHHHH

[burnt tartan]

love for someone ik vs love for strangers be different for me

[fresh grail]

Classic

It's always the gamblers who end up on the wrong side of histry

[burnt tartan]

what were u fighting for

[ornate hazel]

Not the people who win big 🤑

[ornate hazel]

I thought the question was

[fresh grail]

99% of gamblers quit right before their biggest win

[ornate hazel]

Would you kill a person to save 100 strangers

[burnt tartan]

💀

what kinda question is that

kill 1 stranger orrr... 100 strangers

ermmm..... i chooooooseee... feastables 😍

[fresh grail]

Isn't it weird that meat is just animal muscles?

I just thought of that in the shower

[ancient wharf]

Then what is it

[reef star]

Actually I'm not sure

[gusty ermine]

bro switched sides when everyone was against her

[ornate hazel]

I FORFOT THE ACTUAL QUESTION CAUSE YOU NEVER BROUGHT UP ABOUT "killing a loved one"

You were just saying about killing a person 😭

I apologise

[gusty ermine]

I did, all the time

also am I just supposed to assume that the poster doesn't know the question themselves?

[cloud flint]

Hi

[celest bridge]

???

[ornate hazel]

I was focused on this one

[ornate hazel]

That was ages ago 😔

[ornate hazel]

I apologise

I'll acrywlly remember to try remember the question next time

[reef star]

<@&1305977291695718462>

You can add this role with !philosophy and remove it with !nophilosophy

I wasn't sure who all wanted it, so I added Kat and Cass for now since they specifically mentioned it.

[sullen comet]

ooo @stone osprey @cloud flint @gusty ermine @ancient wharf @fresh grail @burnt tartan

thank you Hampton :]

[cloud flint]

!philosophy

[stone osprey]

awesome!

[burnt tartan]

!philosophy

[stone osprey]

!philosophy

sigma

[sullen comet]

oh and @rustic dragon @dense bane @sturdy lake @paper trellis @celest bridge can't forget about you guys lol

[rustic dragon]

Hi! 😄

I will add it for now :>

!philosophy

[sullen comet]

hello :]

[rustic dragon]

New philosophy question - is it the act of making bread, or of eating it that is more mentally healing?

[sullen comet]

@philosopher

well that didn't work lol

[sullen comet]

could you enable it so some of us could ping it please?

it's okay if not

[sullen comet]

i personally think that making bread is more mentally healing as someone who like to occasionally bake bread. i just find the process so nice. especially kneading the dough is so satisfying guhh

hjkfjd

i wanna bake some bread now lol

[rustic dragon]

Same 😩

[sullen comet]

do you have a favorite kind of bread to bake? O.o

[rustic dragon]

When I have all the time, I like making a batch of dark rye and regular sourdough, and making a multicolor braided round loaf 0.0

I haven't done it in quite awhile though... Honestly it doesn't take that much longer

[reef star]

Ohh okay one moment

[sullen comet]

ooo yummyy

[reef star]

Done. Try it

[sullen comet]

<@&1305977291695718462>

ooo

thank you Hampton sir

[stone osprey]

epic

[cloud flint]

depends on the person and the context

[sullen comet]

it would be so fun if we met up and baked together ahaha

[sullen comet]

supposed to be a subjective question lol

[cloud flint]

hmmm

[sullen comet]

you literally can't make it objective

so

[cloud flint]

I would say making

[sullen comet]

da questionn

[cloud flint]

it mroe fun

[rustic dragon]

It would be!!! 😄

[stone osprey]

Probably depends on the person. Especially if their brain happens to be made of bread.

[stone osprey]

I missed it, but just answered it :3

I thought it was a general test ping at first

[reef star]

Making bread

[rustic dragon]

Like... You would eat their brain!?

[reef star]

I think Christianity discourages cannibalism

[stone osprey]

nah, if their brain was made of bread then eating the bread would be way more mentally healing

[rustic dragon]

...

[reef star]

Liver king logic

[stone osprey]

nah, Jesus told me back in the day that he eats people sometimes

[rustic dragon]

This is true, but I can't just assume Thankfuller's faith xD

...

Two ends of the spectrum xD

[reef star]

True but for us maybe we can just observe

[stone osprey]

I'm not sure what I am

atheist fits best though

[sullen comet]

LOL

imagine

[sullen comet]

yeah it was, but i was also replying to minstrel. i would feel bad for pinging a group of people for no reason 😭

[stone osprey]

actually maybe agnostic

[stone osprey]

ah, you're so sweet

[rustic dragon]

Oki :>
Yeah, I knew you were kind, but didn't remember much confidence in a creator who thinks you are individually amazing. (You are though)

[sullen comet]

no you

[rustic dragon]

That has happened before xD

[stone osprey]

ehehe :3

[stone osprey]

no you

[sullen comet]

where's your proof? O.o

[rustic dragon]

ha
I evaded the Thankfuller compliment return!

[stone osprey]

You can't evade the fact you're amazing though

[stone osprey]

everything about you

[rustic dragon]

https://tenor.com/view/cubemelt-cubemelt-gif-icecube-melt-gif-15633690

[sullen comet]

LOL

[sullen comet]

hmm you just proved that you’re the sweetest hehe

[stone osprey]

nuh uh

[stone osprey]

ono

she melted

[dense bane]

!philosophy

[rustic dragon]

temporarily xD

[sturdy lake]

!philosopher

!philosophy

[fresh grail]

!philosophy

[ancient wharf]

Wow

!philosophy

[fresh grail]

https://tenor.com/view/mawwiage-the-princess-bride-peter-cook-gif-5379267

<@&1305977291695718462> Is eating meat bad?

[sullen comet]

what makes you think it's bad in the first place?

[ancient wharf]

No i love it

[fresh grail]

The smell when you burn it

[sullen comet]

uhh, well you wouldn't eat it in the first place if it was burnt lol

[dense bane]

Certain religions view certain animals as sacred hence why some religious people can’t eat certain meats (also certain animals are considered “unclean”). If it isn’t against your current religion I see no problem with it. Meat provides a lot of nutrients that are hard to find otherwise like creatine carnitine and carnosine along with a large amount of amino acids

Humans have been eating meat as long as we’ve known how to hunt (which is a very long time)

[fresh grail]

No you wouldn't

[dense bane]

https://tenor.com/view/grillax-steak-beef-onions-peppers-gif-17590338

By that point the steak is congratulations

Medium rare is perfection

[ancient wharf]

Curry>>>

[fresh grail]

Lebron better

[reef star]

😂

[sturdy lake]

bad for the cow, good for me and my tummy wummy

[dense bane]

Bob the cow did not die in vain

[sturdy lake]

yes 🙏 we thank him for his sacrifice

[dense bane]

Exactly

https://youtube.com/shorts/zBXNh2iTjNM?si=_df8tiNl5RWudzue

Bob did not die for this

This guy should genuinely get a lifetime ban from cooking

Literal blasphemy

I’m sincerely sorry to anyone who suffered their way through that abysmal cooking and absolute ruining of a perfectly good cut of wagyu

[sturdy lake]

I’ve never had a wagyu 😔

[dense bane]

I haven’t either

I’ve had filet mignon before and it was good but not Wagyu yet

It’s on my bucket list though

[stone osprey]

no

if we are not meant to eat animal, why is animal made of food

🧠

[gusty ermine]

yes

(i eat meat)

I wanna get back to the previous topic

@ornate hazel I still wouldn't kill the 1 person if it was a stranger for the same reasons

[jade star]

Oh my god same i wanna try it so bad

[ancient wharf]

Shaq better

[fresh grail]

Maybe at his peak but Lebron is objectively a better player when you compare careers

And honestly you can make an argument for 2007-9 Bron being better, 2012-2015 Bron being better, or 2016-2018 Bron being better

[cloud flint]

Bad for animals

[dense bane]

I dont eat meat

[fresh grail]

How do you build muscle then

[dense bane]

I eat cheese

and yogurt

[ancient wharf]

Yeah i guess

Never watched basketball tbh

[stone osprey]

he's my uncle

[ancient wharf]

Liar liar pants on fire

[stone osprey]

I'd never

[ancient wharf]

Proof?

[stone osprey]

uh

🐡

[ancient wharf]

Why is it called blowfish

Isnt it a pufferfish

[stone osprey]

idk

[sullen comet]

it’s both

[dense bane]

I immediately thought of blowfish encryption

I call the animal pufferfish

[stone osprey]

same

[sturdy lake]

where is the question of the day

[sullen comet]

hmmm lemme think

OH IK

[stone osprey]

hm?

[sullen comet]

Ik we had a lot of questions and conversations about morals, so what’s the ground point in which we all agree in the idea of morals and what creates that ground point? (and if you think there’s no ground point in which we can all agree, why don’t you think such ground point exists?) <@&1305977291695718462>

imma do some chores so adios lol

[stone osprey]

I think we can all agree that sexual assault is widely considered morally wrong

[cloud flint]

Morals exist to benefit humans

[dense bane]

On the flip side though, if everyone viewed it as wrong then why does it still happen on the scale that it does?

[stone osprey]

cause not everyone views it as wrong

just most people

I don't think there is a single thing out there that everyone can agree with

[dense bane]

Most people do, I agree. But not everyone. My point is, there is no single moral that everyone follows

[fresh grail]

I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who thinks that they don't exist

[dense bane]

There’s a set that MOST follow, but not all

[stone osprey]

I guarantee there are a couple

[dense bane]

There’s definitely some

[fresh grail]

Find me them

[dense bane]

Solipsism

Although that is not necessarily that you don’t exist

It’s that you can only prove that only your mind is true to exist

[fresh grail]

So that's the opposite of what I said

[dense bane]

Im sure there’s some extreme nihilist out there that believes so. Or someone on some really heavy drugs

Or someone with some sort of pre existing mental condition

Regardless, there’s certainly someone out there who doesn’t believe they exist

[fresh grail]

So find them for me

[dense bane]

Find an ontological nihilist

[ornate hazel]

IM LATE TGERES A PHILOSOPHY ROLE NOW

RAHHH 🔥

[fresh grail]

You're a trendsetter

[sturdy lake]

are u suggesting the ppl who commit those acts don’t view it as wrong?

[ornate hazel]

I started this company charles

[rustic dragon]

There are many (that at least most would profess, regardless of culture) - We all agree that there are things not to be done. We all agree you can't just have sex with anyone you like. We comprehend fairness and justice. Even if we don't all agree on what those things are, or what is right and wrong, we all know right and wrong exist. (You'll probably be quick to say it's not ok for someone to steal your car, punch you in the face with no prior aggression on your part, torture kittens, etc, even if you believe all morals are relative/a social construct to make life more convenient.)

For me personally, I see those things as being the reflection of a Creator who is good, and who made us to show love and to be loved. That while there are matters of properness, manners, etc. that change culturally, there is a standard that exists outside of all of it. That our conscience is more than "oh my parents would be mad if they found out."

[rustic dragon]

Because some people know something is wrong but do it anyway. The strongest desire in humans is not always to be a paragon of morality 😅

Not a moral thing but stares at past self eating a protein bar knowing good and well I did not need a snack

[celest bridge]

What exactly do you mean by "we all know right and wrong exist."?

[ornate hazel]

A true moral ground is hard to pin down because any basis we choose—like logic, empathy, or religion depends on beliefs people might not share. If there’s any shared starting point, it’s the idea that we need some kind of moral system to live together peacefully. But what that system looks like is open to debate. In the end, it might be the shared search for answers, rather than the answers themselves, that forms our common ground

[ornate hazel]

Yeah I was boutta ask that aswell

[rustic dragon]

Like, there are things anyone from any culture would say "now that is uncalled for"

[celest bridge]

My ground point for morals is "I don't want people to do that to me so I probably shouldn't do it to them."

[ornate hazel]

Would you say 100% of people would say that tho

I don't think so

[rustic dragon]

Like, someone could say "yeah you killed my mom for no reason, but it's not a bad thing. just sad for me"?

I guess I could see someone saying it, following logically from us being animals or something? I'd find it much more difficult to believe that someone would believe every behavior is fine. 🤔

[gusty ermine]

I'm pretty sure we've had this conversation before

[ornate hazel]

Yeah well

[rustic dragon]

(I've been gone recently so I need to catch up xD

[celest bridge]

Personally even if there are "fundamental" morals I feel like at least 90% of the morals that we know and teach are social constructs. Things born out of culture not out of genetics or simply knowing.

[rustic dragon]

(And learn everyone's thoughts xD

[gusty ermine]

I mean about moral grounds and stuff

[rustic dragon]

Oh yeah, certainly a lot of what that looks like is culture and learning.

[rustic dragon]

Like, today?

(if so then I may just need to scroll more carefully 😅

[gusty ermine]

no, before, the same topic was discussed some days ago

[ornate hazel]

I disagree with the idea of universal moral rules. Norms like avoiding harm or sexual boundaries may seem common, but history shows us that these vary widely. Practices like ritual violence or slavery were once acceptable, suggesting our morals are shaped by culture, not actualobjective truth

Pointing to a Creator as the source of morality also assumes shared beliefs. Atheists and humanists build moral systems around empathy or minimizing harm without invoking a higher power. Morality seems to arise from social needs, not divine will

Also our sense of right and wrong feels universal, but it’s mostly shaped by upbringing and culture. Instead of reflecting an external standard, our morals likely come from shared human instincts and evolving social needs

[celest bridge]

And of course a problem with saying that there are fundamental truths is you have to have some correct way that everyone agrees on to find them otherwise who gets to decide what those fundamental truths are?

[gusty ermine]

I don't really mind topics repeating but it just feels funny to see people forget what they talked about, like ai 💀💀

or makes me feel insane 🤣

[rustic dragon]

Thanks! As for one note, I was not assuming shared beliefs when talking about morals coming ultimately from a creator, more like instinct/group memory.

[rustic dragon]

Was I really here? 😭

I didn't think I was

I've been sleepy for like... a week

[gusty ermine]

I think?

let me look up

[ornate hazel]

I forgot the question I was advocating for 😭

[rustic dragon]

hey, I appreciated it xD

If I was here before, I was obviously not awake enough to remember

[ornate hazel]

Hmm

[gusty ermine]

It seems the question was a bit different but it branched off to the same thing about moral grounds and stuff

[ornate hazel]

I understand now

[ornate hazel]

Righttt but If you’re talking about instinct or group memory, that actually supports the idea that our morals evolved through shared human experience rather than coming from a divine source. It seems more like our sense of right and wrong grew out of what helped us survive together as a species tbh

[rustic dragon]

Thanks! Good to know that it was not me, rather another pink person

[ornate hazel]

I see where you're coming from tho

[gusty ermine]

I tagged your message, you were in it, there's no escaping it 🫵

[rustic dragon]

Yes, it's really a double-edged thing because we could figure out what works well for us on our own, or it could have been built in

[rustic dragon]

That is Nathan

I am not Nathan xD

nor am I Kat

[gusty ermine]

The message I replied to. Click it

[rustic dragon]

ohhhh

I remember now

I took that as "are there actions that are always evil or good"

Like, is giving someone a hug always good

(Which of course could vary a lot by cultural understanding of various gestures, etc

Thank you, Existence xD

[sturdy lake]

guys are there morals if there are no humans

[gusty ermine]

yeah, that's why it demanded discussion about moral grounds and their objectivity

[rustic dragon]

stares at the dog who chewed up my purse today

[rustic dragon]

Got it! I guess I just didn't read carefully once it diverged to that

[ornate hazel]

NUKE THE WORLD

[ornate hazel]

A

[celest bridge]

I agree.

[dense bane]

I’m not saying it’s always the case, but there are sometimes those who show no remorse for their actions and sometimes (and I need to preface this, I do NOT agree with what they do) but sometimes people believe what they’re doing is good. There’s several cases of such things

It is rare but it does happen. It’s more common that they know what they did and they know it was bad, but there are always a few who think what they’re doing is good

I feel I could’ve phrased that better

[sturdy lake]

i haven't heard of cases of latter in the example of sa, but if they exist i think most would say they are not of sound mind.

but then we can ask if our "common ground" morals need to be agreed on by those most would consider mentally unsound to be truly "common ground", and then the question of what is "common ground" criteria of being mentally sounds 😭. I know common values/behaviors in one culture can be seen as insane in another

[dense bane]

They are certainly not of sound mind but sometimes people can be tricked into believing what they’re doing is for the good. This is seen sometimes in mass genocide where people are tricked into “dehumanizing” others and believe that what they’re doing is helpful for society. Like I said, it is fucked up and not right, but unfortunately it is something that happens. Those that do it certainly aren’t in their right mind

That got dark really quickly my bad

[fresh grail]

I think genocide is bad

[dense bane]

u think

[dense bane]

I do too

is bad for sure

[sturdy lake]

true true, so if we are looking for a ground point morals, does it also have to be agreeable by those who are not of sound mind?

can be dangerous bc maybe those that are not of sound mind are, like u said, just tricked. and whoever decides what constitutes sound of mind then decides morals that excludes them, like u mention with dehumanizing.

[dense bane]

wait is about morality ?

thats so hard

[sullen comet]

who knew this would start a whole debate lol

[sturdy lake]

i think it gets hard when we have to include people who are not of sound mind, bc they are gonna prevent our criteria of "everyone" in agreement. but then who decides what makes someone of sound mind

[dense bane]

should to be good , im curious about morality

what is , how works and why

[sturdy lake]

bc u can declare any point of moral, and if any disagree, they are just not of sound mind

any moral point*

[fresh grail]

Welcome to philosophy

[sturdy lake]

so i think we have to include them when we are looking for a moral ground point that is agreed by everyone

[sullen comet]

lol. i asked the questions most of the time and usually it's pretty dry answers so xp

[dense bane]

idc i made one for me

but

idk how it works

[sullen comet]

morality is an interesting topic, especially since it's also very controversial

[sturdy lake]

controversial*

checkmate kat

[sullen comet]

LOL

[dense bane]

i dont see why is

is very intersting and important

[sullen comet]

you don't see why morality exist is very interesting and important?

[dense bane]

no

[sullen comet]

is that what you're saying?

oh

[dense bane]

why is controversial*

:))

[sullen comet]

ohhh. well that's because when any topic is controversial, then that means there's different opinions, ideas, and information about it which really makes us think what is right direction to go about this particular topic

therefore, it's interesting lol

[dense bane]

should exist the right

[sullen comet]

uhh could you rephrase that pls?

[dense bane]

some ideas are wrong for sure

[sullen comet]

oh yeah of course. but there will always be some people who think it's not wrong and therefore needs to be debunked lol

[dense bane]

Alright get ready for a paragraph. First matter, what constitutes everyone? I’d define that as any human being with a conscience (this could be a whole other debate but we’ll use this definition for now). Next up, what is a moral? I define it as a simple judgement of what’s right and what’s wrong regarding a certain behavior or action. That brings us to the question, is there universal morals? I don’t believe so. Sure there are some that are generally agreed upon, but everyone’s interpretation of right from wrong differs based on experiences. There is some universality when it comes to those who follow a religion, for example Christianity has the ten commandments upon which Christians believe those to be moral. There are common morals such as don’t kill people, but again, those experiences along with the psychological state of people means that not everyone will agree that killing is wrong (for example in sacrifice which is part of some cultures, or even the death penalty which is often viewed as wrong but at the time was seen as a valid punishment). My point being, due to the large scale of people (being everybody) and the vast number of experiences those people went through, along with cultural influences, and differences in psychological state, it is impossible to have a moral that absolutely everyone agrees with.

That’s my thoughts on this

If you take a smaller group of people, it is possible to find a common set of morals, for example within cultures and religions. But to find one within everybody is impossible

[sturdy lake]

this makes sense to me

[dense bane]

yes

[sturdy lake]

i'll keep thinking ab if there is some universal common ground moral point but i think what u said makes sense

[sullen comet]

i would type stuff but i don't want to type a whole paragraph lol

[dense bane]

can u use empathy for bad ?

[dense bane]

What do you mean by that? Empathy for something bad?

I could see it being used as a manipulation tactic potentially

[dense bane]

to understand feelings of others and to use them in a bad way

[dense bane]

like that

You could potentially empathize with someone to find a weakness or vulnerability to exploit, or use it to gain trust and reliance and then use that in a form of manipulation

Those are the two scenarios I can think of

Damn it’s hard to type with bandaids on your thumbs

I’m a dumbass for using tweezers

[gusty ermine]

yeah, that's called manipulation

[dense bane]

ty

[dense bane]

yea

[cloud flint]

Huh?

[jade star]

Easily

[dense bane]

oh

[jade star]

For example you can show weakness and reveal a secret about yourself hence making them feel vulnerable and revealing something about themselves or at least making them feel sympathy and thinking you are showing weakness when you could be lying

This is essentially emotional manipulation

[dense bane]

yea , intersting way

[gusty ermine]

Here's one: Do you guys think a sufficiently smart (as smart as humans are) AI deserves rights?

You can argue that no matter how smart the AI is, or how well it portrays emotions, thoughts, expressions, etc, it's still just a computer made 1s and 0s so is just imitating human characteristics but is actually not sentient, so it doesn't deserve rights. But then humans are also just 1s and 0s like computers are because our brains and nervous system takes in information by receptors one stimuli and value at a time, one receptor fires up, particular behaviour, 2 fire up, particular behaviour, exactly like computers, 1 bit fires up, particular behaviour, 2 bits fire up particular behaviour, so you can say our brains and nervous system also just imitate reality and experiences for us while we aren't experiencing anything. So why do we deserve rights?

I guess this also asks the question of consciousness, are we really conscious? And the question of reality, is the reality that we see, actually real?

What do you guys think?

[gusty ermine]

If for example you say, it does deserve rights, then why doesn't a simple AI like chatgpt deserve rights? Because it's too simple? Then at what point does the AI stop being just a machine and start being sentient?

<@&1305977291695718462>

Thoughts?

[dense bane]

No lmao

[cloud flint]

Idk

[dense bane]

AI is a tool not an animal

[cloud flint]

When it starts doing things for the sake of doing things?

[gusty ermine]

why not?

[cloud flint]

And questioning meaning

[jade star]

If i had to use detroit become human as reference its an interesting thing to think about

[dense bane]

bc AI is not a person , no feeling , we need rights for cars ?

[gusty ermine]

There are already chatbots in our server that respond without being asked to. Are they sentient then?

[gusty ermine]

animals don't question anything, so they aren't alive?

[gusty ermine]

Yeah

[gusty ermine]

@dense bane

[burnt tartan]

What AI even gon do with rights, any thought it has is based off human behavior and thoight, so it'll be fighting for a cause because of humans. They don't know what they fighting for, but just fighting because humans did it. Which goes into consciousness, they aren't conscious because they can't 'think' without a command.

If you thinking on some Detroit Become Human type shi, then I do believe that people can form legitimate attachments to their bots, but at the end of the day, it's still a preset command that makes them the way they are

The only way for me to think AI robots like DBH deserve rights after going rouge is in a different society

[dense bane]

Is stupid

[burnt tartan]

We can't even afford rights to other humans

I'd be damned if we start giving bots rights first

[dense bane]

🤢

[burnt tartan]

I'd he the first people to start murking them tbh

[dense bane]

dont say that word again

I hate it

Too much bs

[burnt tartan]

What word

[jade star]

Personally if we consider the highest lv of ai that has been presented in the game i mentioned i do think that giving rights is a good choice considering that if ai is able to express emotions it makes no difference what they are by definition

[dense bane]

AI

🤮

[burnt tartan]

They do, and have instincts like us

[dense bane]

Yep

just cant talk

[cloud flint]

They are still promted to do that. Also LLMs just mimic and create text but don’t truely think so I odn’t think it counts

[cloud flint]

No but they are less sentient than humans

[burnt tartan]

I'd be fighting for animal rights before robot rights tbh

[dense bane]

I hate LLMs

[cloud flint]

Why

[dense bane]

BS

[jade star]

If we define humans as animals with emotions and critical thinking why would ai at the highest lv be any different than us?

[gusty ermine]

How can you say that they are fighting for a cause because humans did it but humans aren't fighting for a cause because other humans did it? Command? Have you ever seen a feral human? They don't behave like humans at all but like wild animals, with no semblance of consciousness like modern humans, why? Because they didn't have human environment in their formative years, so you can say that the environment we are brought up in is also just commands, right?

Also, animals can't do anything substantial without commands either, does that mean they aren't alive and conscious?

[gusty ermine]

exactly

[dense bane]

if u say "buy that have AI" be sure i will dont buy it

[gusty ermine]

you are also prompted to think the way you do by the way you were brought up

[cloud flint]

Oh like AI being shoved in every service now?

[gusty ermine]

@cloud flint

[cloud flint]

Yeah but I do stuff for the sake of doing it. An LLM is prompted to start conversations and does it bc of that

[dense bane]

bc AI dont exist

[gusty ermine]

I'm not talking about LLMs though

[cloud flint]

Its about intention if it does it because it wants to it deserves rights

[dense bane]

yes , and that "AI" was 7 years ago too

[jade star]

You are real then?

[cloud flint]

Whats your point? AI being shoved down throats is annoying but it does have its real world uses

[gusty ermine]

if I manipulate you and change your way of thinking such that you do something for me thinking you did it because YOU wanted to for the sake of it, would you then say that you're not conscious?

How do you even define intention then?

[dense bane]

:))

[gusty ermine]

It can easily be changed

[dense bane]

BS and i hate it

to give rights to AI is stupid

[cloud flint]

Well duh intention can be changed by everything in your environment. if you say go do x please my intention becomes to help you.

[dense bane]

rights for PCs

[gusty ermine]

bro what's the point of being in a thread named philosophy if you just gon say one liners without explaining your thought process and discounting everything else as BS

genuine question

[jade star]

The only difference we have from ai is that we know we weren't created by someone for a certain purpose

[dense bane]

why we talk about AI here

[cloud flint]

We’re talking about in the future when computers actually criticly think and stuff

[dense bane]

"only"

[gusty ermine]

then? I prompted you to help me. I can prompt an AI like that too. So?

[burnt tartan]

Humans started fighting because of mistreatment of other humans. Other animals don't often just band together for a reason against humans unless it's for survival. Humans band together for ease of life

AI was made for our ease of life, which is why I don't see it as something that needs human rights.

Animals don't need human rights because they aren't human, they are on their own in that aspect

Dolphins are said to be incredibly intelligent, but rights can't apply to them because they simply aren't human

Idk if this makes sense hah, I'm just typing thoughts

[dense bane]

is that possible ?

:))

[burnt tartan]

Rights don't mean start abusing stuff btw

Like obviously don't start idk

[jade star]

Ai could reach a level of independence that would be beyond a tool for helping us

[burnt tartan]

Kicking dogs

[jade star]

Making it something integral to our lives

[burnt tartan]

Atp we gotta pull out 😭😭😭

[dense bane]

eat dogs

[dense bane]

what if cant

[burnt tartan]

I'd tweak out so hard if I saw a Detroit become human mf walking and living they best 'life' because they're programmed to have great predictions, outcomes, and studied human behavior preset

Off rip successful

[gusty ermine]

that's what I'm saying

Are detroit become human AIs not alive?

[burnt tartan]

Cause who is trying to make a bum AI robot. Too much cost to waste it on average

[dense bane]

why humans

[cloud flint]

Theoretically yes I think

[burnt tartan]

Idk tbh.. cause I feel I may have to actually see one? I feel in the back of my head, I'll always remember 'this isn't human'

But then again, humans forms bonds with things lesser tbh..

Omg I just remembered the dude who married they anime body pillow

[dense bane]

someone know how self-awareness works ?

[burnt tartan]

Uugghh imagine it if was ai instead

[cloud flint]

We have no reason to believe its not biomechanical in nature

[gusty ermine]

That's what's my question. Why is there a "this isn't human" filter? What makes them different apart from not being biological? Actually, we can create artificial meat already, so what if instead of metal parts you make them of organic human like parts as well?

[cloud flint]

As far as I know

[dense bane]

but we dont know

[burnt tartan]

I wish I can think outside of the 'we would be fucked' aspect lol. It's early in the morning

[gusty ermine]

that's what we're here to discuss

philosophy isn't science with tested out facts and theories

[cloud flint]

Yh we’re talking theory

[dense bane]

sad

Then

[burnt tartan]

Yh js remmeber there ain't suppose to be a right or wrong

Unless it's the most obvious thing ever

[cloud flint]

It fun though

[gusty ermine]

you came here out of your own volition fym 😭😭😭

[jade star]

If one doesnt respect something thats built to help him while giving it enough intelligence to understand that fact wouldnt that be problematic?

[jade star]

Yeah true we better hope that actually doesnt happen

[cloud flint]

Yes

[burnt tartan]

Humans vs AI war

[cloud flint]

https://tenor.com/view/what-did-you-just-say-gif-27520460

Start begging

[dense bane]

I prefer to talk about humans rights than about AI

[gusty ermine]

They're called AGI and from what I read back when chatgpt came out, experts in the field estimate they can be a thing by 2060s (also read more about what these experts thought of chatgpt like tech to see if they're accurate at all and all articles from 2000s and 2010s that I read said they could be a thing in 2020s) so make of that what you will

[cloud flint]

Would artificial be redundant if ais made ai?

[gusty ermine]

exponential growth with increasing tech type thing

more you progress in tech the faster you progress to the next level

[cloud flint]

Or is it tre fact that the intelligence is based off organic materials that make it natrul

[gusty ermine]

They're already made by other ai lol

Look up boston dynamics

probably seen

[burnt tartan]

Honestly

Now that I think about it

If it's FOR ME

Fuck everyone/everything else

But

[cloud flint]

🤔

[jade star]

I was gonna say that since exponential means it might come sooner than predicted

[cloud flint]

What is the diff between natrual and artifical int

[gusty ermine]

That's my question

[dense bane]

https://tenor.com/view/the-good-doctor-lea-dilallo-unplug-ill-just-unplug-it-paige-spara-gif-14993221885954373498

[burnt tartan]

I don't think I'd be unhappy with a AI bf DBH style that can replicate human warmth and literally be my ideal type

[gusty ermine]

how is human intelligence any different than artificial if artificial can do everything humans can?

[dense bane]

but cant

robots cant walk well

[cloud flint]

Maybe “created through the natural functions and forces of the universe, without intervention or interaction from sentient beings”

[cloud flint]

People already use AI for emotional intamacy and VR for pronography

[jade star]

I would prob be that old man who tells him to paint

[burnt tartan]

Yeah, and it ain't even physical yet

[dense bane]

lmao

[gusty ermine]

@dense bane

[cloud flint]

I mean can u blame them? AI can be quite literally the perfect partner.

[gusty ermine]

They sell these to amazon

[cloud flint]

He got the boogie

[gusty ermine]

the yellow dog like ones

[dense bane]

not in real scenarios

[gusty ermine]

look up boston dynamics

they shove them too

[dense bane]

4 are not 2

[gusty ermine]

they keep standing

[gusty ermine]

People already talk for hours on ai rp websites

imagine physical

[dense bane]

better discord

[burnt tartan]

I used to ai rp. Then I switched to human rp cause ngl it is better tbhhh

[cloud flint]

🤔

[dense bane]

😭

[burnt tartan]

I could still talk to my rp partner OOC, u like ai rp 💀

[cloud flint]

Have you guys seen westworld?

[burnt tartan]

And idk.. js better

[gusty ermine]

But why? Why that distinction when the same processes can be achieved?

[gusty ermine]

what's it about?

[cloud flint]

They are essentially the same thing lol

[gusty ermine]

that's what I'm sayin

then why no rights?

[cloud flint]

Ah, Westworld! It's like a wild west theme park, but with a twist! The show dives into the lives of androids, or "hosts," who are programmed to serve the guests' wildest fantasies. As the story unfolds, these hosts start to gain consciousness and question their existence, leading to all sorts of philosophical dilemmas about what it means to be human. Think of it as a mix of cowboy action, futuristic technology, and deep existential questions. Plus, it's got some pretty stunning scenery—just like a good sunset over the plains! If only they had a fitness routine like the Hybrid Routine to keep those hosts in shape, right?

[cloud flint]

Yes rights

[jade star]

I wanna see what they will be capable of

Oh nah man

Bro when we get the physical ai sex bots we are FUKED

[burnt tartan]

Is that ai

[cloud flint]

Already exist

[cloud flint]

Kali🥰

[burnt tartan]

Ah, Westworld!

💀 calm down bru

[jade star]

Uh huh give me the name brother

[dense bane]

if are same are humans if no are not

[gusty ermine]

literally fucked 🤣🤣

[burnt tartan]

It aint that exciting

[cloud flint]

Gtg brb

[burnt tartan]

I can get my type

[dense bane]

I agree

[gusty ermine]

Huh

Show about ai sex maids??

[dense bane]

AI president

not bad idea

maybe is better than Biden and Trump

[gusty ermine]

Do you know about Sophia?

@burnt tartan @cloud flint @jade star have you guys ever seen Sophia's videos?

[dense bane]

yes

[burnt tartan]

Nein

[gusty ermine]

She's already so real

[dense bane]

PC with face

[gusty ermine]

DBH type android that already exists

[dense bane]

maybe for u

[gusty ermine]

Look her up

[gusty ermine]

BRO but this is the BEGINNING

PCs back when they started couldn't even handle sending a text

Look at them now

These Androids are the WORST they will ever be

Imagine 40 years in the future

[dense bane]

I dont trust

[gusty ermine]

https://youtu.be/uhND7Mvp3f4
They can walk just fine too

[ancient wharf]

They dont have emotions or consciousness, so no

[gusty ermine]

read the convo

[dense bane]

40 years în the future , is possible we will cant make better graphics chip

[dense bane]

I agree

[stone osprey]

When it has feelings and emotions

[gusty ermine]

at what point do you say it has feelings and emotions?

[stone osprey]

probably when it realizes it has desires

that would come first I think

[gusty ermine]

I think you guys aren't getting it, I'm basically asking what sentience and consciousness is, tbh

[stone osprey]

before any other feeling

[stone osprey]

I gotta go to class

:(

[gusty ermine]

babies can't realise they have desires, so they don't deserve human treatment?

[burnt tartan]

lmao imagine still being in highschool

[gusty ermine]

ikr, so lame

[burnt tartan]

humans lowkey just realized babies are basically mini humans recently tbh

before that shift, we are classified to be on the 'worst parents on animal kingdom' list

yall ever seen old art?

the babies look like grown people

all depressed n shit

[gusty ermine]

don't have to look that far

[burnt tartan]

ik ik

js random facts

[gusty ermine]

just until recently surgeries on babies used to be performed without anaesthesia

because they thought babies can't feel pain

and aren't conscious

[burnt tartan]

crazy

pre humanity was scary because of ignorance

[gusty ermine]

and you guys think computers aren't conscious either

[burnt tartan]

idk, im willing to abuse one till the news comes out that they can feel it or smth

[gusty ermine]

maybe humans in the future look down on us like we do with humans in the past

with robots and stuff, i mean

[burnt tartan]

unless my ai can give me my dream of having a abused house husband

im not hearing it

[dense bane]

Is that real or CGI ?

[gusty ermine]

It's all real lmao

They are pioneers in android making

[ancient wharf]

C.ai.....

[gusty ermine]

Boston dynamics

They have been doing this for decades

Generative AI only got accessible to public recently

It had been existing for a lot of years

[burnt tartan]

i aint talkin bout sum

he bleeds from his head wound, hand reaching up to touch the blood "w-why would you do that?.."

type shot

shit*

im talking bout some

[dense bane]

sure

[burnt tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/skeem-saam-rachel-marothi-pillow-fight-violence-gif-22830031

type shi

[dense bane]

still that backflip looks fake

[gusty ermine]

real

[ancient wharf]

Aw hell nah mannn

[gusty ermine]

you're just getting that uncanny valley effect

[dense bane]

should i search

[gusty ermine]

because we expect it in CGI usually

[gusty ermine]

sure

I'll admit if I'm wrong 🤷‍♂️

[dense bane]

nah i dont have

[gusty ermine]

Amazon already uses robots by them

[dense bane]

Yes is easy to do

[gusty ermine]

and other large companies

[dense bane]

sure

but dont do backflips

U need a lot of balance

Thats why is impressive

[burnt tartan]

bru had to try 3 times

[gusty ermine]

I'm not on pc 😔

[burnt tartan]

xdd

[gusty ermine]

markdown on mobile sucks

[burnt tartan]

there are very nice ai, like dawn cafe in japan

like the one where people control

cause they cant work

physically

cause illnesses

kawaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

[dense bane]

U need to be so strong or ur husband to be very weak

[burnt tartan]

im stronk

i beat my strong man up cuz im stronger

he no weak twink

[ancient wharf]

How tall are yu

[burnt tartan]

10'4

[dense bane]

can u total of 100kg pull-up ?

[ancient wharf]

4'10 hahahahaha

Shorty

[burnt tartan]

1000kg

[burnt tartan]

NO

[ancient wharf]

Yes

[dense bane]

5'2

[dense bane]

monster

just imagine that grip strenght

[gusty ermine]

beginner

[burnt tartan]

(idek what kg is)

[gusty ermine]

2.2 lbs

so you basically said 2200lbs

[burnt tartan]

FIRE

[dense bane]

imagine the back and forearms

[gusty ermine]

Silverback Gorilla's

They can lift that heavy, I think

and they're basically dumb humans in terms of physique

[dense bane]

is pull-up bro

no way

maybe deadlift

[dense bane]

lol

Like that

[gusty ermine]

on bench they can go to about 1800kgs apparently

[dense bane]

any video ?

sounds crazy

[gusty ermine]

nah I just google searched also who's making gorillas bench 😭😭😭

like

you can't teach it that

[dense bane]

https://tenor.com/view/ronnie-coleman-gif-11144436

weakgorila

[gusty ermine]

lmao 🤣

if untrained gorillas bench 1800kgs, imagine trained gorillas 💀💀💀

[dense bane]

was 350kg ?

[gusty ermine]

dunno

[dense bane]

idk if is real

[gusty ermine]

they ARE among the strongest animals on the planet, if I'm not mistaken

[rustic dragon]

I would say no, but then I also believe humans are much more than 1s and 0s. I believe we have free will, and to give AI rights (to vote, work in society etc, etc) would simply be to give extra rights and power to their creators. (Since everything they do is based off of programming, other humans, etc)

That being said, I don't believe that even ai androids ought to be abused for "fun." It's just not a good mental place to go to as a human - "This thing isn't real so I can be whoever I want." Even though they don't have a consciousness, I would relate respectfully and kindly because they are designed to work like humans, and learn from humans.

[dense bane]

1800kg is a car

[rustic dragon]

(Will scroll down to read other thoughts as well :)

[dense bane]

https://tenor.com/view/approaching-elephant-vs-rhino-animal-fight-night-world-rhino-day-im-coming-walking-giant-gif-23168884

[gusty ermine]

Untrained women can lift cars a little too in a fight or flight environment, it's called "hysterical strength" and it's a lot

Angela Cavallo did that to save her son

[dense bane]

crazy

[gusty ermine]

I can definitely imagine a gorilla doing that

[dense bane]

https://tenor.com/view/body-guard-gif-22762717

[gusty ermine]

yeah we just can't tap into that much strength consciously cause they put a lot of stress on our muscle fibres which can break them too

[dense bane]

Yes but bench a car is hard

[dense bane]

they break fr

[gusty ermine]

Why do you think we have free will then?

[dense bane]

not safe

[rustic dragon]

My computer restarted mid-reply, will try to retype after my practice session. :(

[gusty ermine]

it's trying to tell you something omg

[stone osprey]

sure they can, they realize the desire to eat at they cry

[gusty ermine]

I would say read the thread first though, maybe you get new thoughts to add in

[stone osprey]

they realize the desire to sleep and they sleep

or cry

depends on the baby

but they cry to get attention to be fed or put to sleep

[stone osprey]

real

[gusty ermine]

Do they really realise it or is it just instincts like stubbing your toe and screaming out?

and if they are instincts, then instincts are just biological programs

[stone osprey]

instinctive reactions are still triggered by something. A realization of something.

[gusty ermine]

prompted commands are also triggered

"if this, then that"

[stone osprey]

but it's not a realization

it's automatic and triggered by a program that we created

[gusty ermine]

if you touch a hot stove, your fingers back down immediately before you realise you've touched something hot

It's not realisation

it's purely instinctive

[stone osprey]

I suppose any human realization is still triggered by a sort of program

[stone osprey]

you don't realize it but your nerves do

[gusty ermine]

nerves are just receptors, like light receptors in a camera, they just take in information and then do the pre-commanded response

it's not realisation like a conscious thing

except that response is formed by evolution rather than a program

but it's still the same thing

actually programs are just evolution tbh, now that I think about it

[stone osprey]

nerves aren't what makes something sentient though so this isn't exactly answering your original question

but still interesting

[gusty ermine]

it's not, but this is what you said

[stone osprey]

no it's not

I said a realization of desires

[gusty ermine]

you said nerves realise thing and that's what makes us different

[stone osprey]

no I didn't

[gusty ermine]

.

[stone osprey]

nowhere in that sentence did I say that is what makes us different