X
#Flight AI171 crash in Ahmedabad
glacial cedar
X
glacial cedar
https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/666472-plane-crash-near-ahmedabad.h...
sql error for me
warm plinth
yes, they are overloaded, it worked for me after a second try -- but now we may have to wait
glacial cedar
right it works now
shy forge
X
sterile spear
hasty rampart
Supposed passenger list:
X
visual glade
theres one name that will blow up. is it ok to post the names, mods?
glacial cedar
theres one name that will blow up. is it ok to post the names, mods?
the full passenger list have been spread online, i dont think it's okay to post here, but former Chief Minister Vijay Rupani was on it
dull moat
Was it published by an official organisation or news org? I.e. not just some account on Twitter, but someone who reasonably can be assumed to have made sure it is the correct list? (Also, that still does not always mean the correct list is correct.)
If they have not been officially relased, please do not name any names.
glacial cedar
Was it published by an official organisation or news org? I.e. not just some acc...
it was posted by IANS india, but yeah, it also include passports numbers
hasty rampart
TOI (TimesOfIndia) with a more extensive list.
rustic dagger
Local sources including Hindustan Times now reporting a sole survivor from row 11A
https://aje.io/2nxqz1?update=3770368
if true, it's an exceptionally extraordinary case of crash survival
hasty rampart
Local sources including Hindustan Times now reporting a sole survivor from row 1...
Multiple sources indeed confirm this and it is consistent with the passenger list on which the survivor is listed. There is also a picture of his very ticket posted on X.
rustic dagger
I can't imagine how on earth you could survive something like this, considering the sheer intensity of the crash due to all that fuel
the BBC live report is saying that the sole survivor walked away from the crash which is the sort of thing that makes you doubt reality for a bit
warm plinth
hasty rampart
"Ahmedabad Police Commissioner GS Malik, who had earlier said that survival was unlikely, confirmed the rescue to ANI."
visual glade
"Ahmedabad Police Commissioner GS Malik, who had earlier said that survival was ...
Can you pls spoiler that
glacial cedar
"Ahmedabad Police Commissioner GS Malik, who had earlier said that survival was ...
wow, he really walked away from that 😮
he was right next to the exit
hasty rampart
Truly a miracle indeed.
plain quest
Careful with the passenger list, one of them includes passport numbers which gets real iffy quick.
(Someone above me already posted that warning ignore me I just woke up.)
hasty rampart
~~Careful with the passenger list, one of them includes passport numbers which g...
Mods have the freedom to delete them when they deem it necessary. Regardless of that, they're posted online by several News Orgs. already anyway.
languid grotto
Just wanted to add a little bit of information/speculation that has been scattered around various forums. If you listen to the footage of the crash that has been spread online, right at the start you can hear a low buzzing sound that is not typical of jet engines. The common theory at this point is that this is the RAT (Ram Air Turbine), a propeller that drops from the body of the plane to generate electricity when other sources fail. Combined with the released CCTV footage of takeoff showing a failure to gain altitude at the expected rate, it seems that a total engine failure took place. 787s, like most commercial jets, are able to operate on a single engine, even during takeoff, which would indicate a major problem causing both engines to fail, as well as potential generator failure due to the assumed deployment of the RAT. The 787-8 has 6 on-board generators, but in the event of a double engine failure, the 4 in-engine generators can be expected to fail as well. There are an additional 2 generators as part of the auxilary power system. The RAT being deployed does not nescessarily indicate complete electrical failure, and the two auxilary generators may still have been functional at the time of the crash. According to the DGCA (civil aviation authority), the plane issued a mayday call to ATC, but did not specify the issue at hand, likely due to focus being on attempting to maintain control of the aircraft. With a crash like this, it is almost certain we will have more information from the flight recorders to confirm the exact cause and extent of the failure. I wanted to provide this information to counter a few narratives I have seen circulating online, ranging from incompetence to deliberate action.
fathom remnant
https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/1l9no7u/new_video_of_take_of...
A quick look places the camera at ish 23.08082323825343, 72.64073797873283, which means that the used around 2000 meter of The runway and had around 1400 meter left. So it look normal up to that point.
fathom remnant
Just wanted to add a little bit of information/speculation that has been scatter...
What we see in the video suggests a near total loss of power, but other than that its very hard to draw any conclusions, but regardless they where too low to do anything.
https://x.com/Vikasmakwana111/status/1933162059556159903 Rough geolocation of the rotation point.
X
languid grotto
What we see in the video suggests a near total loss of power, but other than tha...
I agree. I mainly wanted to just get it all in one place for folks who are less familiar with aviation to have a bit better of an idea as to what happened, as I have seen a frankly disturbing amount of racism involved in reactions to this crash, suggesting that due to their race, the operators of the aircraft (from pilot to mechanic) were incompetent. I tried to summarize what can be seen from the videos.
dull moat
Mods have the freedom to delete them when they deem it necessary. Regardless of ...
It's pretty simple: we only have a small group of volunteers who moderate the server, so we expect a level of responsibility and maturity from the members not to just dump stuff in here and let the moderators decide.
If we find or are alerted to people who can't bring up enough respect for the rules, they are asked to change. If they don't, there is a lot of internet outside of this server for them.
hasty rampart
It's pretty simple: we only have a small group of volunteers who moderate the se...
Duly noted. I will make sure to take this into consideration from now on. Thank you.
unreal nest
https://x.com/Vikasmakwana111/status/1933162059556159903 Rough geolocation of th...
I’ve seen some people suggest that the dust cloud at rotation is actually a puff of smoke from the engines. It’s a shame that the aircraft is hidden behind that structure during the rotation.
unreal nest
It probably was just a dust cloud. Here’s a different takeoff that caused a dust cloud: https://youtube.com/shorts/-r_EXV5jyJU?feature=shared
lusty coral
I agree. I mainly wanted to just get it all in one place for folks who are less ...
Would also add that it looks like flaps were at 0 in some of those videos, which would not be consistent with takeoff / low altitude configuration. Flaps up decreases lift and increases stall speed. If there was a change in flaps at that altitude, it would be consistent with the behavior witnessed (nose high attitude while dropping altitude.)
warm plinth
https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/666472-plane-crash-near-ahmedabad.html#post11899106 "Personally I think take off flaps are extended. It's a grainy video but if you compare it to a normal 787 take off, you can see the profile is similar. The 787 has a sleek wing, even with take off flap deployed.
The 787 screams blue murder at you if you take off without flap. I think selecting flaps up instead of gear up is also unlikely.
The gear not being retracted could be due to confusion in the cockpit/workload.
I'm thinking perhaps a take off performance mis-calculation and/or power issue. " also this: https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/666472-plane-crash-near-ahmedabad.html#post11899393 "In the high-def photo of the wing post-crash that has been posted in this thread, the flaps are visibly extended."
fathom remnant
https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/666472-plane-crash-near-ahmedabad.h...
Photos from the crash also shows the wing with flaps extended.
dull moat
The position of the flaps after a crash may not tell us everything and videos are certainly not definitive evidence. But there appears to be enough left for the experts to determine the exact final configuration.
We just have to wait... 😞
fathom remnant
This is an example of a 787 at take off, its not easy to see the difference between this and flaps up on a poor quality video
lusty coral
Fair points!
Having a hard time wrapping my brain around a catastrophic failure like this on a machine with so many redundancies
fathom remnant
What we see on the video is pretty consistent with a total loss of power. Almost no engine noise and the Ram air turbine appears to be deployed, plus the reports of the Mayday call saying that they had no power. The cause of this is 100% speculation at this point, but the "flaps up"-theory is imo not consistent with what we know so far.
lusty coral
What we see on the video is pretty consistent with a total loss of power. Almost...
Yeah, I am very interested in what the recorder shows. The only thing that gives me pause about loss of power - the way it "falls" to me looks like they're losing lift (but not yet in a stall condition) vs. losing thrust. Gear being down is also creating an enormous amount of drag on them, which isn't helping in any case.
Will be very interesting to learn more over the coming days.
unreal nest
What we see on the video is pretty consistent with a total loss of power. Almost...
Plus the loss of the transponder data a short time after take off.
fathom remnant
Yeah, I am very interested in what the recorder shows. The only thing that gives...
Loss of thrust = loss of lift. Kind off. Without sufficient power you cannot produce enough lift to stay airborne.
lusty coral
Loss of thrust = loss of lift. Kind off. Without sufficient power you cannot pro...
Sure, but the loss of lift if you change the shape of the wing is far different. Loss of power = glider mode, it's "smooth." If you dump flaps, you drop. It looks different.
We train for this, but most often in go-around situations where that's more likely - not takeoffs.
fathom remnant
Sure, but the loss of lift if you change the shape of the wing is far different....
I know how it works.
hasty rampart
"Turkish officials deny claims that Turkish Technic maintained crashed Air India's Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner"
"The clarification comes after yog guru Baba Ramdev made a public statement alleging that an agency from Turkiye used to take care of the maintenance and service of the Air India aircraft."
rustic cargo
Just wanted to add a little bit of information/speculation that has been scatter...
that was an extremely incisive assessment, thank you
I just had one question: Do we have visual confirmation of RAT deployment yet, considering that footage covering multiple observation angles has been released
languid grotto
Not to knowledge, no. Think we will have to wait for the recorder for any sort of confirmation. The RAT is pretty small compared to the size of the aircraft, so we would need some pretty high quality footage looking directly at the underside of the plane. The footage i have seen has either been too low quality, too far away, or from the wrong angle. Here's an image of a 787 with the RAT deployed for comparison of how small it is.
The primary evidence that is publicly available is still just the audio from the first video to emerge. It's not completely conclusive, but there are few other sources for that audio (which sounds like the low buzz of a propeller plane) that make sense, and combined with the other information (apparent complete loss of engine power) it makes sense.
unreal nest
When the zoom in occurs at 6 seconds you can see a small dot under the fuselage where the RAT would be located: https://www.reddit.com/r/CatastrophicFailure/s/5gJpfHn9CJ
Quality is not the best though.
fathom remnant
https://aaib.gov.in/What's New Assets/Preliminary Report VT-ANB.pdf preliminary report
"The aircraft achieved the maximum recorded airspeed of 180 Knots IAS at about 08:08:42
UTC and immediately thereafter, the Engine 1 and Engine 2 fuel cutoff switches transitioned
from RUN to CUTOFF position one after another with a time gap of 01 sec. The Engine N1
and N2 began to decrease from their take-off values as the fuel supply to the engines was cut
off.
In the cockpit voice recording, one of the pilots is heard asking the other why did he cutoff.
The other pilot responded that he did not do so."
plain quest
https://aaib.gov.in/What's%20New%20Assets/Preliminary%20Report%20VT-ANB.pdf prel...
Per this report, the RAT did also deploy, just to tie up loose ends from earlier discussion.
modern dawn
modern dawn
warm plinth
Pilots would've reported problems with locking mechanism.