Magdeburg Christmas Market Attack

[short nacelle]

Continued from here: #eu-uk message

Tagesschau is considered a reputable German public broadcaster.
https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/gesellschaft/magdeburg-weihnachtsmarkt-104.html

OSINTdefender is a notoriously bad source.

They often share old or misleading footage and rarely attribute sources.

(The message this refers to has been deleted by the author.)

[rigid bluff]

In this case they were sharing an mdr clip, but good advice in general.

[stable pivot]

Spiegel released his name, are we allowed to share that?

[short nacelle]

You can link the article

[stable pivot]

https://www.tickaroo.com/e/FChO0JgC3Vr7zgZJ

His Twitter is... uh something

[short nacelle]

You can summarise but not share anything that allows people to find the account.

Talking about it in DMs is fine, of course.

[midnight vale]

Can you DM the Twitter account to me?

[calm folio]

According to the CCTV footage, the vehicle took about 215 ms to travel covering its own length (about 4.7 m for this BMW I think)

So, speed = 4.7 m / 215 ms
= 21.86 m/s
= ~79 km/h (49 mph)

That's the speed according to me

[fathom swift]

it def. is
also pretty sure that his full name is gonna get leaked (probably by some Springer outlet) soonish since he has gave multiple interviews before

[stable pivot]

I mean there's 1 dude with those initials that matches that description, and it's on twitter already

[fathom swift]

well it at least also fits all the things you can find about him

[reef oriole]

I wonder what the hell the forum linked in his profile is about, if it’s the guy that is

[stable pivot]

He's an anti-Islam guy it seems

[reef oriole]

Yeah, well, there seems to be some other ingredient in this cocktail I can’t quite place

[stable pivot]

He likes the AfD as well

[midnight vale]

Is there a # of deaths or injured?

[tepid lichen]

BBC reports two dead, 68 injured.

[short nacelle]

I think the biggest question is whether the information about him (profession, dates etc.) from the most detailed articles was taken from the Twitter account.

Because then of course it would match up with the Twitter account.

I.e. media got the name, found the Twitter account/interviews, and then started parroting false information.

[stable pivot]

A PM from Saxony-Anhalt gave the initial info, so they probably went from there

Reiner Haseloff

[midnight vale]

I'm sorry to ask questions that might already be answered in articles I haven't read yet, but did the driver survive and during what time frame did the incident occur?

[fathom swift]

well I am pretty sure I found the institute where he works
and also as I said other older interview articles where those professions and also some of the views are also portrait

[short nacelle]

I am aware of those articles.

[short nacelle]

Yep, he was arrested.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Magdeburg_car_attack

The time they give away about four and a half hours ago

[cerulean rose]

The archived copy of the article doesn’t have the attacker’s name, can someone screenshot it? Or is that not allowed

[cerulean rose]

The attacker? On what basis?

[rigid bluff]

19:04 local time one liveblog says. https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/magdeburg-auto-faehrt-in-menschenmenge-auf-weihnachtsmarkt-a-89bccf41-ac09-4a5b-8845-fd9080e057e9

[fathom swift]

his tweets

[short nacelle]

We can't be certain that the identities match up.

[cerulean rose]

Yeah was just going to say

[short nacelle]

It's going to take a while before reliable information starts appearing.

Germany takes data protection very seriously, even with criminal suspects.

[fathom swift]

which is also kinda a good thing honestly
but yeah we'll see

this close before the election is kinda going to fuel everything up so much more

[cerulean rose]

Does anyone have twitter API access? If so can you dump a sample extract from key search terms

[stable pivot]

From MDR

No explosive device found in the vehicle
No explosive device was found in the suspected perpetrator's vehicle, as Tracy Hering of the Magdeburg police explained. The area around the car had previously been cordoned off because the police suspected that there was an explosive device in it.

[stable pivot]

https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article254939378/Anschlag-auf-Weihnachtsmarkt-Arzt-Islamgegner-seit-2006-in-Deutschland-Das-wissen-wir-ueber-den-Attentaeter-von-Magdeburg.html
Welt published his identity

They also go over some of his beliefs

...claimed that the German state was persecuting Saudi Arabian refugees to destroy their lives. He promised retaliation, writing: "I assure you that 100 percent revenge will come soon. Even if it costs me my life." And continued: "Germany will have to pay the price. A huge price." The post reads like a terror announcement, but was subsequently deleted. The X user WELT spoke to kept it.
In May 2024, he posted on X in English: "I seriously expect to die this year. Reason: I will ensure justice at any cost. And the German authorities are blocking all peaceful paths to justice." At the time, he wrote in Arabic about the "implementation" of an "operation."
In August 2024, he posted in Arabic: "I assure you: If Germany wants war, we will have it. If Germany wants to kill us, we will slaughter them, die or go to prison with pride. Because we have exhausted all peaceful means, we have only encountered more crimes by the police, state security, the public prosecutor's office, the judiciary and the interior ministry. Peace does them no good."

He seems to have had some serious mental health issues judging by his twitter. He's a Saudi born guy, that leaves SA due to fear of prosecution because he's an atheist, comes to Germany, and at some point gets radicalized and becomes an anti-Islam AfD supporter. He also thinks that the German state is actively working to spread Islamism in the west.

Also he is a "Obama is a secret Muslim" guy which is kinda funny

[midnight vale]

Is his listed occupation verified?

[short nacelle]

I see this kind of pro-AfD stuff a lot in people who consider themselves targeted individuals (i.e. people who are suffering from paranoid schizophrenia or similar conditions). It's not necessarily motivated by his anti-Islam views, but often relates to their "anti-mainstream" rhetoric. It can be summarised as:
government bad -> opposition good -> AfD is the only real opposition

Obviously anecdotal, of course.

[stable pivot]

He's definitely a psychiatrist, I have not yet verified the correctional facility part

[short nacelle]

That said, a lot of the ex-Muslim crowd (Ali Utlu, Hamed Abdel-Samad etc.) has become uncomfortably close to the AfD, or at the very least enjoys the attention from the AfD-adjacent circles.

Parts of the German atheist community have shifted hard right in the last decade. Also involving some very strange and radical pro-Israel views.

[stable pivot]

Ali Utlu the Turkish, anti-Islam, far right guy... who's somehow a Kemalist

[short nacelle]

To be fair, being a vocal gay ex-Muslim isn't a particularly easy life.

I think for many of these people, the AfD is more of a "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" kinda thing.

Or at least started out that way.

[stable pivot]

Yeah, but if they are screaming "Ausländer raus" and you are not German, I feel like there's a fundamental problem there, lol

[short nacelle]

That's the thing. They're not really screaming it. It's often just implied. Or people they later disavow.

They're always wearing a mask of plausible deniability for the dog whistles they use. So people can rationalise supporting them.

"They're not racist, they just want to stop the bad Ausländer! I'm one of the good ones!"

"They're not against foreigners, they're just against Islamism!"

That kind of thing.

[languid cedar]

▶️ Quick reminder to all:

When discussing individuals, please focus on documented actions and statements rather than speculating about personal matters like mental health conditions. This helps maintain our community's commitment to factual, evidence-based discussion.

Thank you!

[crude oracle]

https://rairfoundation.com/saudi-psychiatrist-exposes-germanys-active-operation-welcoming-jihadis/

I am linking this article because I saw this tweet and was alarmed by the name in there, that doesn't appear on the site link, so maybe edited or altered

||https://x.com/ZahidDOAM/status/1870258100457918870?t=M-_M6Kpqza0diEKq_Hw_1w&s=19||

For reference https://www.huffpost.com/entry/anti-muslim-twitter-troll-amy-mek-mekelburg_n_5b0d9e40e4b0802d69cf0264

[rigid bluff]

Welt published his identity
They did not, technically, name him as the one who did it. They said “this is what we know about the perpetrator, these things match with person “x”, but there is no official confirmation that it is him.”

[midnight vale]

What consitutes an "official confirmation?" Seems like a German publication wouldn't publish a name unless they were legally backed to do so.

[rigid bluff]

They’re basically saying “We’re not saying it is him, but this is the comparison: you draw your own conclusion.”

They literally say: “Der Name des Täters ist noch nicht offiziell bekannt gegeben worden.” (The name of the perpetrator has not been released.)

[crude oracle]

They seem to restrict the Twitter account, I get lots of errors

Would that include saving into the archive?

I scrolled and saw a Tommy Robinson mention by him and wanted to search for more

[pulsar hound]

Accidently clicked sent.

Was trying to say that on the person's twitter account there is a weird tweet with a couple of videos that was posted on 7:07 PM CET, which is a couple of minutes after the attack at 7:03 PM CET.

And said account was suspended, why did it think it was a good idea to refresh.

[crude oracle]

No feed to see for me anymore

[midnight vale]

All his social media is going down so grab what you can now

[crude oracle]

Best indirect verification so far

[pulsar hound]

If someone is live on his twitter, save the videos posted earlier today

[crude oracle]

I'm sure in these hours someone copied amap

Account gone

[midnight vale]

If someone has it open in a browser it may still be accessible. Just don't refresh the page.

[pulsar hound]

Yep, learned that lesson the hard way.

[midnight vale]

& don't let it automatically or accidentally refresh

[crude oracle]

Didn't work mobile

Someone checked the IA?

There are tons of stills on twitter

[midnight vale]

Wild video. If you can only spare 5 minutes or less, watch the very last few minutes.

[hearty talon]

Elon Musk sharing misinformation about the attack

Source: https://xcancel.com/elonmusk/status/1870258448606372098#m

[fathom swift]

Is it just Twitter? I have read in a couple of tweets that he was also very active on rumble
Maybe there is still some info to be saved there
I can only find one video with his name through googleing
Funnily enough rumble then says that it's unlisted

Yeah you can't find him through rumble search either

[hearty talon]

https://www.tagesschau.de/eilmeldung/eilmeldung-8354.html

dead count raised to 4.

200 injured

[stable pivot]

His twitter still works for me right now

[blissful whale]

https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10163157150872873&id=513067872

Counterargument: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=582260891221807

[rigid bluff]

I don’t see it. The claim that he planned to kill people doesn’t presuppose a motive and the only evidence given is his name?

O and ‘he could have been lying’.

[blissful whale]

And that he was supporting fellow Saudi dissident Omar Abdulaziz who was seen supporting IS. One link is cited by the author, another is cited by the first link.
https://x.com/Moraqeb2020/status/1870258048750526493?
https://x.com/Moraqeb2020/status/1870281930983219599

غـطــاس 🤿 (@Moraqeb2020) on X

🚨The terrorist Talib Jawad Al-Abdul Mohsen the perpetrator of the #Magdeburg terrorist attack is wanted to #SaudiArabia but But #Germany which criticizes what it calls the suppression of the Saudi opposition granted him asylum❗️

Most importantly Talib is closely linked to the

Twitter · Dec 21, 2024, 12:00 AM

غـطــاس 🤿 (@Moraqeb2020) on X

A tweet by Talib Al-Abdul Mohsen confirms his connection to Omar Abdulaziz.

Below is a tweet by Omar glorifying the beheading of people by ISIS.

Canada names Omar a Saudi political dissident and grants him asylum & citizenship ass well 🤡

Twitter · Dec 21, 2024, 1:35 AM

I only don’t know how strong this is.

[blissful whale]

Guys for context, his name is Shi’a (from Muhsin ibn Ali (youngest son of Ali)), the argument the author raises.

[rigid bluff]

It’s something we can keep in mind in case something more conclusive comes up, but right now it seems more of an attempt to muddy the waters. We have:

1. He didn’t change his name [was he supposed to?],
2. He could have been lying [this could also be a lie],
3. He thanked someone for support in a specific case [he also retweeted nazis when their message suited him].

[short nacelle]

That is by far the weakest argument she raises. Deriving someone's ideology from their name is… yikes.

[pulsar hound]

Ok, I’m completely confused right now. The alleged x account is back online for me

[rigid bluff]

I think it has been delisted: you can still reach it, but not by the Search function.

[pulsar hound]

Yeah, was able to get to it via the link to his account, which wasn’t working last night when I checked

[stable pivot]

Does anyone have photos of the place where he enters the market, and the place he leaves, trying to look at the security measures, I found some images of another entrance, but not one he used

[keen cape]

Yeah this is so off the mark, it's absurd. That's like if I told you that there was a murder overnight in Toronto, and that the police are looking for a suspect named Friederich, and people thinking "This must have been a neo-Nazi hate crime"

It's a junk argument

[river siren]

This would be interesting, most Christmas markets in Germany usually have measures to prevent cars from entering the area. Especially since 2018.

[fathom swift]

is there a way to filter instagram results by date?
because the google maps pictures that have a greater overview are not from this year
and looking up anything related to the market now is probably useless because it will be overflooded by posts about the attack itself

also checked the official website (on wayback machine because it is already completely replaced)

[fathom swift]

I kinda have the feeling that in the last couple of years those mostly were gone or well many of those measures were also proven useless or made it even more dangerous

[river siren]

Looking at the images from the scene it seems like the street where the market is, is very active and had a tram station nearby.

Source of the picture: https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/sachsen-anhalt/magdeburg/video-sachsen-anhalt-magdeburg-weihnachtsmarkt-anschlag-verletzte-zwei-tote100~amp.html

[fathom swift]

https://www.ddinstagram.com/p/DDm0toJiasg/?hl=de
there is a video from a bunch of angles
and you can't see any measures in those

around 1:20 you can also see exactly that corner and it doesn't really seem like there is really anything

https://www.ddinstagram.com/p/DD0LJ6YizHC/?hl=de
in this one there are a couple of those concrete lego bricks

at the end you can see basically see that that one part was bricked off but yeah it doesn't seem like that part to the tram was

[crude oracle]

Berlin blogger, wouldn't take her serious, you will understand when watching her shorts

[blissful whale]

Mmmm~

[crude oracle]

We have elections, everyone jumps on this train now to influence

[river siren]

His motive can be fairly decently taken from this from earlier.

#1319780745639624745 message

[fathom swift]

https://x.com/Tim_Roehn/status/1870402043040464899
also didn't see this eMails somewhere in this thread

Tim Röhn (@Tim_Roehn) on X

Tragisch: Uns @welt liegt die Original-E-Mail vor, die eine Frau aus 🇸🇦 am 26. September 2023 an die Polizei in Berlin schicken wollte. Bloß: Sie schickte sie an die Polizeistation in der 7500-Einwohner-Gemeinde Berlin in New Jersey, 🇺🇸. Was dort damit passierte? Bislang unklar.

Twitter · Dec 21, 2024, 9:32 AM

someone wrote an eMail to the (wrong) Berlin in NJ to warn them about the alledged attacker

[crude oracle]

Possibly she, can't control the account now, also contacted the Internetwache. Röhn is BILD

[fathom swift]

(technically Welt but yeah ofc in the end both Springer
like I also would not take all he says for facts) but the eMail itself is there and can speak for itself

[crude oracle]

That what was I read yd. No sources, only ss https://x.com/Moraqeb2020/status/1870287560993583464?t=ZmlFP_2vC1VDRws6KPBV4g&s=19

غـطــاس 🤿 (@Moraqeb2020) on X

🔴Saudi girl living in #Germany reported to the German police in September 2023 about the danger of a man called Talib Abd AlMohsen, who was planning to run people over with his car.

The German police ignored the report and acted in a stupid bureaucratic manner.

A month

Twitter · Dec 21, 2024, 1:57 AM

[small arrow]

Just in case, the content of the page had been replaced
[I did not check if the copy of the original that is in the new version of the page had been edited]
16 Dec 2024: https://archive.is/YLMHU
21 Dec 2024: https://archive.is/bhnin

[pulsar hound]

Regarding the email and text messages going around, there is also this photo showing more of text conversation that isn’t included in the tweet.

[rigid bluff]

I suspect you don’t use Twitter. The rest of the conversation is there. There are four pictures in total, but non-users probably only see the first.

[pulsar hound]

I use twitter, just that the discord embed only includes the first photo

[fathom swift]

Anschlag in Magdeburg: Wie die Lage ist

https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/deutschland/magdeburg-anschlag-weihnachtsmarkt-100.html

This explains it
It was the Escape and rescue route he used to enter the market

[red summit]

His Youtube channel is gone too since this morning

[midnight vale]

yeah, it's been down for at least 17 hours now.

[blissful whale]

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/12/21/arab-worlds-reactions-to-magdeburg-attack-reflect-ethnic-and-sectarian-tensions

Oh it didn’t embed?
Issues raised include Iran, Syria and Kurdistan

Arabs are having varied reactions

[timid orbit]

It's a very "this is what people are saying" article, it might be useful for looking at the narratives that are emerging in Arabic twitter, but going by the translations and screenshots, none of quoted tweeters are providing much evidence for their comments

[weary quarry]

A roundup of various tips
https://apnews.com/article/germany-christmas-market-attack-magdeburg-f14b036514e9ae2d4ca013cf45eac18f

[short nacelle]

Unverified content has also been shared, indicating a WhatsApp conversation dating back more than a year between a Saudi girl and German security services warning that Taleb A. might carry out an attack in Germany. This content remains not officially verified.
This is factually incorrect. The entity in the screenshots is the BAMF, the federal agency responsible for immigration. They are in no way related to any German security agency.

[crude oracle]

Article asking if he was a MD https://bnn.de/nachrichten/deutschland-und-welt/zweifel-an-dr-google-kollegen-wunderten-sich-ueber-den-attentaeter-von-magdeburg

[crude oracle]

Interesting read https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/sachsen-anhalt/magdeburg/interview-taeter-anhaenger-globaler-digitaler-rechtsextremismus-100.html

[river siren]

I’m not sure if this belongs in #disinfo-and-propaganda or here but there is a lot of disinfo being spread, by many well known accounts, that the attacker was screaming “Allahu Akbar”, to prove it was an Islamic attack.

To a native German speaker it sounds like “Alles Klar” which translates as “alright”.

https://fixupx.com/aziz0nomics/status/1870670754309980663?s=46&t=EICw3-cxS0FC4Q45ICLtWQ

Could also be a police officer saying “zurück alle” (back everyone). It’s difficult to tell.

[crude oracle]

i listened to it multiple times and its made up. a lot of german factcheckers also made it clear. this is pure disinfo spread by the usual suspects.

[hearty talon]

https://bsky.app/profile/larswienand.bsky.social/post/3ldxprzxivc2i

musk reinstated the account of the attacker, but deleted some of his tweets (!)

Lars Wienand (@larswienand.bsky.social)

Ich habe in der Nacht zu Samstag dreistellig Tweets von „@DrTalebJawad“ archiviert und diverse Videos runtergeladen. Am Samstagmorgen ist der Account weg, hatte ich gedacht.
War bei Terroristen und Amoktätern in der Vergangenheit immer so.
Unter Murks nicht. (1/2)

Likes

208

Bluesky · Dec 23, 2024, 10:27 AM

https://bsky.app/profile/larswienand.bsky.social/post/3ldxprzy6es2i

Lars Wienand (@larswienand.bsky.social)

Tatsächlich sind übrigens seit Freitag Tweets aus dem Profil entfernt worden.
Und einige Followings sind auch weg (Das dürften Nutzer selbst gewesen sein durch Block.)

Likes

112

Bluesky · Dec 23, 2024, 10:27 AM

[short nacelle]

I don't hear either. I don't think that video is even remotely good enough to determine what was said.

[river siren]

I honestly don’t even hear anything that could sound like it, could be a mondegreen

[short nacelle]

I do hear the "Allahu Akbar" when primed by the text.

But I don't think that's what was actually said.

I think this is a case of Laurel/Yanny.

[river siren]

No, Allah Akbar is also said by Arab Christian’s, it just means god is great. It’s a phrase common in Islam as the Takbir, but Christians use it as well.