Russia Terrorism Event Friday 22, 2024. (GRAPHIC CONTENT, READ THE PINS, NO FALSE FLAG TALK)

[sharp rock]

They haven't been friends or even neutral towards Russia.
https://m.economictimes.com/news/international/world-news/why-did-isis-k-attack-a-moscow-theater/articleshow/108721361.cms

[vocal basin]

From May 2023: https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/05/09/islamic-state-afghanistan-khorasan-propaganda-russia-ukraine-war/

From earlier this month: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-it-neutralized-isis-cell-plotting-attack-moscow-synagogue-2024-03-07/

[violet scarab]

Very helpful, thanks.

[hearty owl]

Has anyone familiar with Russian units seen any evidence that the TSsN FSB teams were deployed to the scene? I hadn't thought of that before but that's actually interesting that seemingly only SOBR were first responders and not FSB Alpha or Vympel considering their status as "premier" counterterror teams.

[sharp rock]

Wouldn't surprise me if the more premier units had a longer deployment time
https://vxtwitter.com/RALee85/status/1771316436612321449?t=XLH0E4KZG82B-YC4-mvqqA&s=19

[teal zenith]

Pics from inside,added is a tweet with the videos, so spoilered ||https://twitter.com/Archer83Able/status/1771370743961407606?t=624eC5VN9YDWNofcyaCmnA&s=19||

[jagged forum]

Here's what the processed version of the atrium and level 1 concourse look like in 3D (derived from google maps 360 images with photogrammetry). To help people understand a little better, there's a large multistory atrium space that has the concession stands and connections to the Crocus Congress Hall (not shown). Then a series of stacked semi-circular concourses provide access to the concert hall, also not shown.
Obviously all the reflective surfaces did a pretty big number on the model, but for something like this photogrammetry is only the intermediate step for creating a detailed and dimensionally accurate model. I probably won't take this any further on my own but if a newsroom is working on or interested in making a 3D explainer of the attack I'd be happy to assist.

[severe peak]

I appreciate this a lot ty. I've been trying to visualize the inside, never having been there and creating a timeline.

[vast yoke]

Timeline from Mash
https://t.me/breakingmash/52736

[alpine cipher]

Moscow is GMT+3 btw

[upper apex]

We have videos of the attackers storming out their cars, attacking the atrium (maybe a few minutes shooting there, there was enough time for a majority to flee the hall) before moving into the Congress hall and shooting more + quickly starting to lay fire. Then the public evidence ends, it’s likely that they left shortly after that point. The entire attack seems to have lasted 10-15 minutes.

Mash’s timeline claims it took the attackers 8 minutes to get into the hall, 3 minutes after first emergency calls.

This means they may have escaped even before police started to arrive if they left shortly after entering the hall.

If we say police had a response time of >8 minutes from call to arrival, this would have given them >14 minutes for the entire attack.

(Closest police station is 5 minutes away)

[pallid jackal]

@waxen pivot

seeing photos/reports that two attackers are detained

two escaped

sec

[upper apex]

Warning graphic imagery of close injury! Clash report claims that authorities have stopped one of the attackers cars and killed 2 + found weapons ||https://x.com/clashreport/status/1771440936351826107||

[pallid jackal]

||https://twitter.com/clashreport/status/1771440936351826107||

[upper apex]

Baza says that two were detained with one of them being sent to the hospital. https://t.me/bazabazon/26209

“The Renault car in which the suspects were driving was discovered at night near the village of Khatsun, Karachevsky district, Bryansk region. Alexander Khinshtein reported this.

According to him, the car did not stop at the request of law enforcement officers and tried to escape. During the pursuit, shots were fired and the car overturned.

As a result, one alleged terrorist was detained on the spot, the rest fled into the forest. A second suspect was soon discovered and detained.

A PM pistol, a magazine for an AKM assault rifle and passports of citizens of Tajikistan were found in the Renault car.”

[upper apex]

Seems like the rumours about authorities chasing a car were true

Photo of the stopped car from https://t.me/bazabazon/26211, number plate is visible

Calibreobscura also says it’s a first gen AK-12 and probably from the “special military operation” https://twitter.com/CalibreObscura/status/1771435480996843652

Cᴀʟɪʙʀᴇ Oʙsᴄᴜʀᴀ (@CalibreObscura) on X

Camo'd first gen AK-12. It's from the "SMO Zone" or much less likely a reactivated version

Twitter · Mar 23, 2024, 7:15 AM

FSB is now saying they arrested 11 people including all 4 shooters:

https://twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/1771448253172666758

[vast yoke]

https://t.me/rian_ru/237447

[upper apex]

Photos of a second captured attacker + another photo of their car

CW, attacker is bloodied + some blood smeared on car:
||https://twitter.com/michaelh992/status/1771455551773303025 ||

[upper apex]

RIA just posted this:

Text of the FSB statement:

▪️В as a result of the actions of special services and law enforcement agencies, 11 people have been detained, including four terrorists who took a direct part in carrying out the terrorist attack at Crocus, and further work is being carried out to identify the auxiliary base.

▪️После the perpetrators of the terrorist act tried to escape, moving by car towards the Russian-Ukrainian border.

▪️В. As a result of concerted action by special and law enforcement agencies, all four terrorists were detained in the Bryansk region a few hours apart. They are currently being transferred to Moscow.

▪️Ведется is working to identify all the circumstances of the terrorist attack. It has already been established that the attack was carefully planned. The weapons used by the terrorists were prepared in advance in a cache.

▪️После the perpetrators intended to cross the Russian-Ukrainian border and had appropriate contacts on the Ukrainian side.

https://t.me/rian_ru/237473

Seems like russian authorities are still trying to make a UA connection, will be interesting how it develops in the next few days

[severe peak]

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1blksv5/fire_at_the_kuibyshev_oil_refinery_in_samara_this/

[vast yoke]

The Ministry of Emergency Situations publishes footage of clearing the rubble at Crocus
https://t.me/rian_ru/237485
https://t.me/breakingmash/52747

[little prawn]

I wonder if anyone familiar with Russia-Ukraine travel could tell with some familiarity that their travel indicated they were heading toward the Ukraine border, or if Belarus was equally possible, given where they were allegedly stopped. I guess if they really wanted to cross to Belarus, there would have been a shorter distance route from Moscow.

[upper apex]

That’s not relevant

[vast yoke]

How confident are we the people arrested were the shooters?

[upper apex]

Source is FSB and leaked pictures. Shows the same car model as used in the attack, supposedly also firearms. We also supposedly have pictures of 2-3 of the attackers under arrest. So if you trust FSB + pics high.

[vast yoke]

I generally don't have any trust in the FSB. Photos, on the other hand, are a maybe

[teal ridge]

Source on them being stopped there?

[old spade]

I guess that tree behind the car might be verifiable with street view

[little prawn]

https://twitter.com/runews/status/1771441075581821111

Although some telegram posts are saying that initial media reports were claiming that the car with the terrorists was stopped 16 km from Belarus - in the village of Teply, Bryansk region. Confirming the location of the leaked pictures would potentially confirm whats correct.

Russian Market (@runews) on X

Last night, a Renault car, believed to have been driven by the suspects, was discovered in the vicinity of the village of Khatsun of the Bryansk region. Alexander Khinshtein reported this incident.

According to him, the vehicle failed to comply with law enforcement requests to…

Twitter · Mar 23, 2024, 7:37 AM

[teal ridge]

Unlikely, google street view photos in Bryansk are 10 years old. Yandex mainly covers Moscow

[old spade]

I see

[harsh root]

I can see this resulting in a "confession" video.

[upper apex]

saw a claim that they got stopped at a village called "Katsun" in Bryansk https://x.com/KrukuOne/status/1771453767180861655?s=20 (two more pics if anyone attempts geoloc, doesnt seem helpful tho)

[alpine cipher]

Can we locate where from Belarus the car was from based on the car plate?

[upper apex]

is that even a belarussion car plate?

[teal ridge]

There are tens of thousands of Belarusian plates in Moscow, they’re everywhere. I think it was just a random car

[upper apex]

#1220789867437363290 message

[harsh root]

Someone also said something to the press about selling the car last week

[teal ridge]

Yes, that’s the Renault with Russian plates?

[upper apex]

According to the leaks found by the "New Europe," up to a 24-year-old man who sold the car to his wife's brother, the car was owned by Alexei V. He lives in St. Petersburg, but received a passport in the Tver region. The man did not respond to the call of the correspondent of "New Europe" and did not go to the social network in the last hours.

[cerulean sigil]

from https://twitter.com/ian_matveev/status/1771423308015112547

IanMatveev (@ian_matveev) on X

82 погибших в «Крокус Сити холле». Силовики предварительно подозревают шестерых уроженцев республики Таджикистан. То ли один, то ли двое из нападавших (предположительно) задержаны в Брянской области, куда они пытались скрыться на машине

Twitter · Mar 23, 2024, 6:26 AM

[upper apex]

it seems like the car was sold in the tver region, just a week ago to a relative who said "his friend needs it"

[teal ridge]

The Renault yes, it has Tver area code too.

[scenic cedar]

https://m.vk.com/wall-63148004_11387

Here's the 368km marker
53.160611,34.593104
And this is the 385km gas station
53.0140204, 34.5255852

[old sleet]

If we follow the hypothesis that these were ISIS Khorasan members which would mean likely Afghans or other central Asian, that could be the reason for them to run to Belarus. I’m reminded of the border crossing events between Belarus and Poland where they tried to weaponize refugees being forced into the EU. If the Belarusians are still doing that, is there any possible connection?

[upper apex]

For 10 years Ukraine has been turned by the hands of the West into a center for the spread of terrorism, and terrorists tried to flee there after the terrorist attack in Moscow Region, Zakharova said.

https://t.me/tass_agency/239143
seems like there is now several Russian officials tying or partially blaming this attack on Ukraine

[upper apex]

context on where this seems to have happened

[scenic cedar]

Yep it's the E101/M3 road going south

Trying to geolocate the photos might take a while though, not much to work on

[upper apex]

112 just posted new videos of the arrests / arrested, might give a hint for geoloc (could be a different location though, since it seems to be some kind of command post)

three videos showing arrested https://t.me/ENews112/17045

[scenic cedar]

Yeah, I saw still difficult to confirm, I'll keep trying though, thankfully that road has street view

[upper apex]

Baza now posting a video of people interrogating one of the arrested at the scene (it seems?)

• What was he doing at Crocus?
• Shooting
• shot who?
• People.
• For what?
• For money.

Images of an interview with one of the suspects in the shooting of people in the Crocus City Hall. He said that he was to receive 500,000 rubles for the crime. Half of it was received in advance, and half was to be transferred later.

Don't know if I should link to it, since it could be coerced.

[gray oracle]

Yes I've just seen a bunch of Z accounts quoting it, I didn't watch the video

[upper apex]

I know we didn't want to track the death counter, but deaths have now reached 115 https://x.com/meduza_en/status/1771478689743573252

[upper apex]

RIA now posted a longer video of the interrogation, with the additional claim he flew from turkey on march 4th (again not linking it because it could be coerced)

[harsh root]

Is he at a crossroads or a t-junction?

[teal ridge]

He claims he did it for money, they also discuss how he was paid, and communicated with someone on telegram

[harsh root]

^ and to escape to Ukraine

[teal ridge]

He doesn’t say it in the interrogation

[upper apex]

I'd take anything said in the interrogation or reported by Russian Media about the attackers with a big grain of salt.

[glossy wyvern]

did they also find the clutch pedal of the escape car or what is this?

[vast yoke]

The video shows a completely burnt-out concert hall. 719 specialists and 213 pieces of equipment are working on site. 20 bodies were found under the rubble. The work will continue for at least a few more days.```
https://t.me/breakingmash/52759

[warm cedar]

When you take a screenshot, can you link it back to the video you took it from?

[glossy wyvern]

its from this image
#1220789867437363290 message

[upper apex]

Simonyan still claims the attack was done by ukrainians and not ISIS:
https://t.me/margaritasimonyan/13853 (posted one hour ago..)

https://twitter.com/olliecarroll/status/1771503910219346220?s=20

Oliver Carroll (@olliecarroll) on X

Still no address from Putin. Spokesman Peskov non committal about whether they will be one. “We’ll inform you,” he tells journalists. It’s a conundrum: Tell the truth that you messed up on Islamic terror, and be forced to focus on proper security concerns. Or blame Ukraine

Twitter · Mar 23, 2024, 11:46 AM

[vale tendon]

Putin typically responds to urgent national crises in 3-5 business days so no surprise

[upper apex]

source is from tg channels, so take with salt:
https://twitter.com/olliecarroll/status/1771508532967272936?s=20

Oliver Carroll (@olliecarroll) on X

More than 200 might have been in hall when Crocus roof collapsed while on fire, says telegram channel close to law enforcement. Those numbers apparently based on cctv. I fear the number of confirmed dead is going to rise significantly.

Twitter · Mar 23, 2024, 12:05 PM

[teal zenith]

Looks like there is a path behind this guy, the trees have a swathe

[upper apex]

https://twitter.com/meduza_en/status/1771513300192215199?s=20 surprise!

Meduza in English (@meduza_en) on X

The Putin administration has instructed Russian state-funded and pro-government media to emphasize possible “traces” of Ukrainian involvement in their reporting on Friday’s Crocus City Hall terrorist attack, according to Meduza’s sources.
https://t.co/llPDCnOYhO

Twitter · Mar 23, 2024, 12:24 PM

https://t.me/tass_agency/239221

❗️ Putin will deliver a televised address in connection with the terrorist attack at the Crocus City Hall, media reported.

putin is announced to speak

[harsh root]

Which video? Looks like a road to me

[upper apex]

putin is speaking right now

[normal pilot]

any links?

[upper apex]

no, only announcements, came very sudden, probably russia24

|| https://www.ontvtime.ru/live/russia24.html || this seems to be it? no translation though

[teal zenith]

The screenshot from the telegram video. When you look at the trees beside the road on map you see they are very dense with only a few exceptions.

[spring spindle]

Reminder to be careful with .ru domains, especially those associated with the Russian state

[harsh root]

This one? #1220789867437363290 message

[normal pilot]

generic statement promising retribution for those responsible

[still rivet]

What do you mean?

[spring spindle]

For what I'm seeing he's focused on talking about Ukraine and how the allegedly arrested terrorists were supposedly headed to Ukraine. Waiting to find a source better than Faytuks to share here

[upper apex]

condolences, says there will be retribution, comparison to nazis and repetition that they were fleeing towards ukraine, calls for holding together

[normal pilot]

I probably missed the beggining

[river idol]

https://t.me/sotaproject/77982

[upper apex]

RIA and TASS wrote his main points down during his speech, nothing interesting / nothing new

[tawny river]

What do they say?

"Detention of one of the terrorists"

https://t.me/WLM_EU_RUSSIA/2915

[upper apex]

spoiler maybe? Don't know if these kind of arrest videos should be posted

[tawny river]

no

[teal ridge]

Just calling him to listen and asking date of birth etc

[spring spindle]

There are plenty of .ru sites which are known to host malware and/or being scam sites. On top of that,the Russian state can request information to sites that are using .ru domains. Russian sites are also ordered to store information from people using their sites

[harsh root]

The road doesn't look wide enough to be the E101. Also, no metal barriers on either side, but that doesn't rule it out.

[tawny river]

WARNING: Images of death through link

"1 killed and 1 detained Tajik involved in the mass shooting yesterday night in Moscow

4 other suspects are on the run"

https://t.me/EternalMuscovite/60996

[upper apex]

please remove, atleast 3 of these have been confirmed to be unrelated

1 was a guy who sold the car 2 years ago, two others were confirmed by tajikistan to be in tajikistan

[normal pilot]

the guy in the video above says he's born in 1991, which doesn't match any ages

[ornate frigate]

Does anyone has the link to the original ISIS source that declares they are responsible for the attack?

[tawny river]

Show us please.

[upper apex]

I dont think it's good to just spread around rumours of suspects and share photos + names, I will provide you the info tho.

[tawny river]

Nothing?

[warm cedar]

Please read: #1220789867437363290 message

No unconfirmed speculation on suspects, please.

[tawny river]

One of the detainees.

https://t.me/EternalMuscovite/61002

[upper apex]

here you go. I didnt bother sharing this before since I didnt want to share that list in the first place.
https://x.com/jackryan212/status/1771519520940736540?s=20

I couldnt find the original source, but this should be good enough

[waxen pivot]

Hi all, please don't post rumours of suspects especially if they include their names and photos

(just saw Subtle posted the same thing, thanks Subtle)

[upper apex]

and here is baza confirming that the other guy just sold his car 2 years ago:
https://t.me/bazabazon/26219

[tawny river]

Excellent, thank you!

[upper apex]

The most interesting part of the Putin Speech was this:

❗️Путин: the shooters at Crocus moved towards Ukraine, where a "window" had been prepared for them

Seems to be laying ground work for future UA "involvement" claims

https://t.me/rian_ru/237584

[upper apex]

Here is a video of Putin with the section translated:
https://x.com/wartranslated/status/1771518223424377137

Seems to pretty directly accuse UA of being involved (also he compares the attackers to nazis, language he typically uses for UA)

WarTranslated (Dmitri) (@wartranslated) on X

Putin accuses Ukraine of preparing an escape route for the terrorists that attacked the Crocus City Hall in the Moscow region last night.

Twitter · Mar 23, 2024, 12:43 PM

[tawny river]

Anyone care to translate:

https://t.me/CIG_telegram/44416

[vestal magnet]

Wonder if this from 2017 is still relevant

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/05/24/529685951/what-does-it-mean-when-isis-claims-responsibility-for-an-attack

[fickle monolith]

are they really accusing Ukraine of involvement? So sick

[little prawn]

I've been eyeing telegram channels and X since the start of the terrorist attack, and have not once seen any mention of a "Ukrainian window of opportunity" at the border until Putin said it. I've watched some of the "interrogation" videos and have not heard any mention that they were escaping through Ukraine. Anyone have anything on this?

[upper apex]

Won't be posting links since it's a unconfirmed (but likely) attacker identity, but Mark Krutov found the accused persons old VK page and found no ties to UA but islamic messages (which I am not qualified to comment on)

[normal pilot]

Asking about other parties, Abdulla, Muhammed, where they met.

He also said they bought the car from Abdulla's family member.

[tawny river]

So they did get the car from a family friend and they were hiding in the woods.

"Footage has emerged of the arrest of another terrorist involved in the terrorist attack in Crocus; he was also caught in the Bryansk region."

https://t.me/rosich_ru/58806

[upper apex]

The only thing even loosely tying them to UA atm is that they were captured close / on a highway towards UA. The rest has been messaging from RU authorities / media.

[tawny river]

Questioning one of the detainees:

https://t.me/rosich_ru/58807

[upper apex]

https://vxtwitter.com/lizziedearden/status/1771520374854889841?s=20

the facts around UA involvement harden /s

[normal pilot]

Both of them are saying that they met on Telegram.

[tawny river]

Geeze, great!

[river idol]

https://vxtwitter.com/lizziedearden/status/1771522904745746594/

[harsh root]

Did the detainee say anything about a safe passage to Ukraine or just that they were told to escape there?

[normal pilot]

no

[upper apex]

from what I have seen neither.

[normal pilot]

Though, they might force them to make a "confession".

[tawny river]

Good Point.

[upper apex]

It's important to highlight that any "interview" or "confession" will be unreliable since there's probably some kind of coercion.

(i.e. in the current "interrogations" they claim to have done the attack for 5000$ usd)

[normal pilot]

That might be likely of them getting paid pennies for it, in the one in the building he was talking about how they "got a little taxi car", he needed work pretty bad, because he hasn't worked in a long time.

[half ivy]

https://twitter.com/leventkemaI/status/1771518543135121542 [Unverified photo of Daesh taking credit for the attack].[Unverified in the context that I stumbled across the post]

Levent Kemal (@leventkemaI) on X

Amaq published the photo of those who carried out the attack in Moscow. This could also put an end to claims that the attack was carried out by Ukraine or that it was a false flag.

Twitter · Mar 23, 2024, 12:45 PM

[upper apex]

seems to come from official IS channels:
#1220789867437363290 message

[lapis walrus]

in the 'interrogation', the guy said half a million roubles which is roughly 5000$ usd. Dollars arent mentioned otherwise

[vale tendon]

I'd like to get the timeline right. When ISIS published their original claim of the attack, how much information was there regarding the terrorists escaping the scene? Because the ISIS claim is the first source I remember seeing that they got away.

[upper apex]

There was no information yet at that time. ISIS was relatively quick to claim it

https://vxtwitter.com/Liveuamap/status/1771529591032594865?s=20

Is the belarus official talking about the Belarusian border?

[teal zenith]

better spoiler that

[upper apex]

If yes this directly contradicts Russian Messaging so far (probs if someone can find the original quote)

[tawny river]

I'm deleeting this one due to graphic imagery, which some viewers are sensitive to. Feel free to repost with spoilers and a content warning.

WARNING: Blood and bodily damage.

“I don’t speak Russian”

Interrogation of another detainee

<https://t.me/ClashReport/19688 >

[normal pilot]

Asking name/dob, and where they dropped the weapons, he says "i don't know, ask my friends"

[harsh root]

Can anyone make anything from his t-shirt?

[tawny river]

For date of birth he says "February 4" but doesn't say the year, when he's asked how old he is, he replies either 30 or 40. The officer says 'thirty?', he replies 'yes'

he looks severely out of his mind, the beating probably helped absolutely nothing

https://t.me/bazabazon/26257

[tawny river]

TW: Blood on shirt

does this say 'Tour de France' or something similar to anybody else?

[teal zenith]

please dont download from russian sites

[mystic anchor]

Certainly seems like it

[tawny river]

how do you mean?

[little prawn]

If I'm reading this article correctly, it says:

The Belarusian intelligence services helped their Russian colleagues prevent the participants in the terrorist attack at Crocus City Hall from crossing the border, said the Belarusian Ambassador to Moscow Dmitry Krutoy.“The head of the State Security Committee is in direct contact with his colleague. And in fact, the main task of last night was to prevent terrorists from escaping across our common border. This task has been completed,” BelTA quotes him as saying .

https://www.rbc.ru/politics/23/03/2024/65feb1489a79476092c2ab39

[teal zenith]

there was a video with a download link above

[upper apex]

Also: https://vxtwitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/1771525373055955376?s=20

[little prawn]

How is this not bigger news lol I mean they're gonna walk the statement back ofc

[tawny river]

Any geolocations on the site of arrest?

[teal zenith]

not yet

[royal tundra]

looks like it's written "Francia" though

[teal zenith]

thats a few meters from where they were arrested to Belarus

[tawny river]

Official details of arrest mention village of Hatsun' (Хацунь) which is on M3 highway "Ukraine", between its 368 and 385 kms (some claim on 371 km of the highway). The actual arrest is claimed fo have happened in a village of Teplyi (Теплый) to the south of Bryansk. From there it's 150 km down to Ukrainian border and 190 km to Belarussian border. This difference in proximity is why currently RU officials are claiming the UA escape route, no other evidence otherwise presented

https://t.me/istories_media/5708

[warm cedar]

The shirts says Travefs instead of Travers, though. And it doesn't look like the lettering failed, it looks like a proper f was used. Knock-off shirt?

[tawny river]

Their clothing from arrest videos are just generic stuff you can find at a cheap open air market or on shoddy online marketplaces, definitely knock-offs

[upper apex]

Wasn’t there a chase mentioned? It’s not unlikely that they didn’t follow their originally planned route while being chased

[tawny river]

Yes, Rosavtodor (Highway authority) had claimed it caught them when they entered M3 on that route. They instantly closed it down and dispatched patrols which may have prompted them to switch routes but it's all speculation as of now

[royal tundra]

yeah some knock off The North Face I guess

[tawny river]

TW: blood on clothes

Just general gibberish printed on shirts I'd say

[tawny river]

Damn that's far from the border.

[onyx gust]

Was about to chime in to add this too, looks like ripoff north face logo, which everyone rips off everywhere

[warm cedar]

I put it in Google on the off chance, dreading all the North face stuff I'd have to wade through - nothing!

[upper apex]

I don’t think their clothing holds any clues, unless you are comparing it to the outfits the original attackers wore

[harsh root]

Khatsun'

[tawny river]

It's still a mystery to me as a Russian when and where the 'K' is added to the Russian 'Х'

[warm cedar]

It should be Х = Kh

The Kh stands for one sound.

[harsh root]

Who mentioned Teplyi?

[onyx gust]

For us Anglos, X will always be Kh and H is only used for Ukrainian Г usually (not in Bulgarian, Serbian fwiw and just adding this for info's same)

[tawny river]

English is too much complexity and mystery for me, I merely accept the way things are 🤷‍♂️

[spring spindle]

This applies to all of us non native English speakers 😅 (let's continue this convo at #1091057164510040245)

[tawny river]

First one on my timeline was 'Baza' at 08:56 Moscow time

https://t.me/bazabazon/26187

[little prawn]

Russian telegram channels have already done this work and tied their clothing between the ISIS picture, the videos of the terror attack, and pictures of when they were caught.

[vast yoke]

Not keen to watch the video. Is this during capture or at a different location?

[royal tundra]

besides that, it's hard to match the shirts with the ones on the ISK picture

[royal tundra]

ripoff of that

[tawny river]

Teplyi

[tawny river]

Definitely a knock-off with that K before the R

[tawny river]

During capture, by the security force.

[tawny river]

Yep, which gives more credibility to what the Belorussian ambassador said

[vast yoke]

Thank you

[royal tundra]

this looks more like the shirt color of the guy on the left in the ISK picture than fake north face shirt guy

[tawny river]

Another video but he appears to have his ear here, just profusely bleeding from it, with journos present as he's lead to the car

https://t.me/readovkanews/76631

Google has two images of Teplyi — 2! 1985 and 2014. SMH

Moreover, the media is blaming the UA International legion because 4 days ago they allege UA's embassy to Tajikistan had posted ways on how to apply

https://t.me/readovkanews/76657

[harsh root]

Wouldn't be surprised if they stapled it back on

[tawny river]

Can we note that if they were caught in Teplyi, and were heading west to the Belarus border, then while northwest, they crossed a river (somewhere) only to head the opposite way — to Teplyi, which is surrounded by a river.

[scarlet shell]

This seems to be the same guy as in the two ISKP "martyr" photos

[tawny river]

Police are raiding dormitories and hostels with registered migrants in Moscow

https://t.me/moscowach/24852

[waxen pivot]

Hey - - this is too violent/gory and I don't see that it's too relevant to what you're all doing here so I'm deleting it

[harsh root]

I don't see it

[scarlet shell]

Focus on the dots in the t-shirt. Also his ear

[harsh root]

I see no dots and very different fabric #1220789867437363290 message

[tawny river]

These are the closes land bridges — yellow pins — to Teplyi.

[upper apex]

Also, you’d think they may own multiple shirts, I wouldn’t waste too much time on this

[tawny river]

One of the detained from the post the previous person shared

[lapis walrus]

i can see some dots

[scarlet shell]

Lol. It clearly shows she dots. But OK than not

[tawny river]

It does seem that they recorded the video - if it's genuine - on the day of the attack so they were detained in the clothing they wore

[upper apex]

That would explain it

[scarlet shell]

Exactly. They usually don't publish those "martyr" videos weeks in advance

[scarlet shell]

Does somebody have an original source for this ISKP photo/still? Might be able to get better quality then to prove it's the same guy in the arrest video.

[harsh root]

Where can i find the big pic and the last pic?

[royal tundra]

for yellow shirt guy, shirt details are heavily blurred too

[tawny river]

TW: blood posts on that timeline, brutality posted on the same channel

pictures you mentioned are on this post: https://t.me/rosich_ru/58861

[scarlet shell]

Yea I wanna do 1 at the time, but original/best quality helps a lot

[scarlet shell]

Anything better would be welcome

[tawny river]

searching

[scarlet shell]

🙏🏽

[tawny river]

Tiny miniscule good things: Russia's largest retailers have announced that all profits made this weekend will be given to those that were victims of the attack as government announced financial compensation to families of those who died

https://t.me/mnews_ru/23034

[upper apex]

here is a geo location for one of the attacker captures, cw blood https://x.com/auditor_ya/status/1771544294194553282?s=20
by @auditor_ya

Ru captured 3rd alleged terrorist in forest southern Kommuna, Navlinsky district, Bryansk region, russia 53.079839, 34.554634 @GeoConfirmed

[normal pilot]

https://t.me/breakingmash/52773A
person from the scene was giving an interview how he came across one of the terrorists eye to eye, and while he started reloading, he grabbed his gun and got him down, then a larger person helped him to knock him out. First time I'm hearing this. (this is coming from ru24, state media)

[tawny river]

That's the largest size floating around.

[scarlet shell]

Ty! I couldn't find the original Amaq News Agency announcement either, but I reckon this is the best we can get.

[upper apex]

Russian authorities flaming anti-migrant flames:
https://twitter.com/meduza_en/status/1771551023330451644?s=20

Meduza in English (@meduza_en) on X

Refuting reports circulating on social media, Russia’s Internal Affairs Ministry has announced that all suspects arrested in connection with Friday’s terrorist attack outside Moscow are foreign nationals. https://t.co/bdPcETyTZf

Twitter · Mar 23, 2024, 2:54 PM

[tawny river]

Just to make clear, multiple witnesses confirm that he did

https://t.me/bazabazon/26259

[upper apex]

More disinfo from Russian Media
(no link since it's blocked in the EU)

[river idol]

https://t.me/sledcom_press/12299

Investigative Committee (Sledcom) would be the source of that.

[vale tendon]

I don't think that's necessarily their intent. Russian government is many things but they aren't historically very anti-immigrant I think (they have specifically created and encouraged the guest worker programs that eg Tajiks come under so they wouldn't have any sort of a leg to stand on)

[little prawn]

More info on the discrepancy between Teplyi and Khatsun reports https://t.me/istories_media/5708

[teal zenith]

It's possible they were under amphetamine etc, ISIS used Captagon before

[waxen pivot]

Hey I'm deleting references to this video because I think it's too graphic to share here

[river badge]

https://fxtwitter.com/azelin/status/1771527847200387354

[loud quiver]

Scott Ritter is insane, don't give him platform

[upper apex]

I wouldn't share him on social media, I think it's okay here

[vocal basin]

he is simply a Russian propagandist at this point, so it's useful to see where Russian propaganda is going with this. And the direction is quite obvious where they are going: https://www.threads.net/@mrkevinrothrock/post/C43GsVYgNct

[tawny river]

Ritter has serious credibility issues for sure, and his disinformation posturing for Ru outlets is his only real means of subsistence.

[upper apex]

https://x.com/KevinRothrock/status/1771562477567812009?s=20

https://theins.ru/news/270191

Kevin Rothrock (@KevinRothrock) on X

The Insider (an investigative outlet that has worked extensively with Bellingcat) reports that the color, print, and cut of the clothes visible in photos published by ISIS showing the alleged Moscow attackers match the clothes of the arrested suspects. https://t.co/9X6zP5cAIQ

Twitter · Mar 23, 2024, 3:39 PM

[scarlet shell]

They missed the shirt tho

[tawny river]

The Khorasan Diary

"The Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia denied information that the suspects in the terrorist attack were Russians.

“The information disseminated on social networks that they had Russian citizenship does not correspond to reality,” the department’s press service said in a statement.

Now the migration divisions of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, together with the FSB, are ascertaining the length of stay of each of the detainees in Russia: Ministry of Internal Affairs Irina Volk, Russia."

https://x.com/khorasandiary/status/1771552439314841808?s=20

According to preliminary forensics, the terrorists lit up evacuation emergency exists first to trap people inside Crocus City Hall

https://t.me/bazabazon/26263

[scarlet shell]

https://fxtwitter.com/j6dreamteam/status/1771559673340019021?t=A569vMgQ7lUlQeB0-2AiMA&s=19

[tawny river]

"The EMS doctor spoke frankly about his work during the terrorist attack."

"It took us 12 minutes to get from the substation to Crocus, but we were not the first there. The first ambulance team, as far as I know, arrived at the scene within 4 minutes. Along the way, they determined who would do what, assigned roles - what the team leader would do, what the assistants would do, prepared equipment in advance, and worked out injuries that might occur at the call site. Information came in - 55 teams were sent, 70, 80... As a result, 85 ambulance teams from Moscow and the Moscow region worked on the spot.

Were we scared? The ambulance team always works at the edge of the outbreak, and I don’t think they would have let us into Crocus while there were still terrorists inside. The first doctors to go there were employees of the Center for Emergency Medical Care , who make tactical decisions. On the spot, they organized the triage of victims - everything was very clear.

The main part of the damage that I saw were burns of varying degrees and localization, gunshot wounds - limbs, chest, abdominal cavity. Bleeding, of course. Carbon monoxide poisoning.
People were very scared, almost everyone was crying. But psychologists helped us.

After triage , a patient with chest burns and 2nd and 3rd degree burns to the upper extremities arrived in our car. We immediately anesthetized him, administered infusion therapy, and applied an aseptic bandage. He was delivered within 14 minutes to the Sklifosovsky Research Institute."

https://t.me/center_svarog/10212

View of Crocus hall in Moscow from helicopter after terror attack.

https://t.me/ClashReport/19690

[sage dew]

can you remove the preview? wrap the link in <> to prevent embedding or spoiler tags ||x||

[tawny river]

Maybe just post the link with a TW but without those videos attached?

Can someone translate please.

[sage dew]

what even is his language

[tawny river]

Tajik, allegedly

[sage dew]

can you remove the preview? wrap the link in <> to prevent embedding or spoiler tags ||x||
@tawny river read above about hiding the preview and stuff, there are rules against posting graphic content, simple warning doesn't cover embeddings

[bronze thorn]

I deleted this message.

[tawny river]

Bye everyone! Have a good one. Enjoy bellingcat.

[sage dew]

yeah it's gonna get deleted like that if you don't properly conceal the graphic content - ffs

[alpine cipher]

Meduza geolocates the video of one of the terrorists in the hands of the security forces closer to Ukraine than belarus. https://meduza.io/en/news/2024/03/23/meduza-geolocates-arrest-video-of-moscow-terrorism-suspect-to-town-85-miles-from-ukrainian-border

[tawny river]

O (officer, presumably): Where are the papers/ Where did he get the papers?
T (Translator): He says he got them at the airport
O: Airport? Did you file for work or as a (can't fully make it out, sounds like 'critical')?
No more. The lady takes a long time to translate things back and forth

[tawny river]

that person had a weird insistence on posting videos on here

[jagged badger]

Well thank you guys for being firm on that. I opened twitter today and it was just a wall of gore. Nice to have some moderated viewing here instead.

[waxen pivot]

Yeah please don't post gore here, we'll be timing you out if you do

[steady yacht]

Aye. Properly tag, spoiler and/or prevent embed as necessary.

[tawny river]

Last of open fires at Crocus City Hall extinguished, emergency services continue to clear out rubble

https://t.me/bbbreaking/178371

[desert badge]

we are sitting on this channel as much as we can but if you need us you can @ the Server Moderator role

[sage dew]

wish there was a setting for the channel that would automatically spoilertag all images within
they already have a setting to make all spoiler tags automatically revealed for individual users

[tawny river]

Total death toll is still expected to rise as emergency service workers keep recovering 'body fragments which make identifying victims or their number difficult'

https://t.me/moscowach/24858

During their escape, the terrorists ran over an 8 year old child who is in critical condition in a hospital with complex trauma

https://t.me/astrapress/52102

Over 3k Muscovites have donated blood in the wake of the attack, hospitals declare they're fully stocked up

https://t.me/tass_agency/239313

[spring spindle]

That person seems to have ragequit the server, so I don't think this will be an issue for now, as long as we all provide a little bit and we are careful with what we share

[wary tree]

NB lot of fakes going around claiming that some victims were staged. All are disinfo from what I can tell.

[sage dew]

yeah I noticed... wonder if you can make a discord bot take someone's message, delete and repost it, conservatively censored and attributed to the author appropriately - could be useful

[dapper stump]

Yes it looks like something to do with Tour de France.... Astana Kazakhstan is the only professional team coming out of ex USSR countries...

[tawny river]

still one of the most knock-off shirts to ever knock-off

[steady yacht]

Or edit the spoiler flag on the embeds of the original message? Kinda sorta like "community notes," Discord style?

[tawny river]

A lot of those 'corpses were moving' takes are coming as it's hard to distinguish between the black body bags and the plastic-covered warm foil (?) blankets some of the ambulances were equipped with

[sage dew]

yeah exactly - but you can't edit someone else's message - a bot can't
so it'd have to delete and repost - anyway done discussing it, I know how to do it with discord.js but I don't have the standing here to provide such a service

[spring spindle]

Yeah, already with the difficulties of the fact this is an event in Russia and its media and authorities have motivations to disinform about this and we have seen plenty of false and baseless allegations about it (mainly any ties with Ukraine)

Which is why it's fundamental to always verify any claims we may see in any site and message that we may see

[lapis walrus]

Id say the isis martyr pic and the detainees getting clothes matched rules out the theory of a russian false flag. Especially with the accusations the russian state is making

[tawny river]

93 people still in hospitals according to Moscow Department of Healthcare

https://t.me/tass_agency/239322

[wary tree]

One of the captured terrorists does not even speak Russian

[steady yacht]

Mmm. I know bots can generate embeds that in or after the message they relate to, and which remain in the flow even if the original post gets deleted. Something like that, embed OP post in a quote:

Like so
With reminder to properly tag, spoiler & prevent embed with OP mention and eye-catching emojis and writing style?
🤔

[tawny river]

I mean I know plenty of Russian citizens who can barely speak Russian

[clever pilot]

Just tuned back into this, did they get all of them or are a few still on the run?

[bronze thorn]

Feel free to ModMail your feedback or send a proposal to #server-discussion!

[wary tree]

Context: "false flag"

[tawny river]

They captured the four that are claimed to be among the original 5 attackers, 5th is suspected to be dead. 11 more have been arrested in suspected assistance to the crime. Witnesses claimed at least 20 people were involved in the attack

[jagged badger]

Sorry for non info commentary but seeing the state of the theater now it’s tragic for anyone who thought they could be safe hiding behind seats instead of running. How terrible.

[tawny river]

People panicked. They were scared. They thought they'd be ducking out of the bullet spray trajectory. Those poor people and their children

[clever pilot]

https://t.me/rusbrief/213556 133 dead

[tawny river]

Video of what is left of the mall

https://t.me/rian_ru/237646

In the wake of this attack, Gosduma is discussing lifting the death penalty moratorium again

https://t.me/novaya_pishet/44458

It's the same dude who argued for death penalty reinstatement after Nord-Ost (Dubrovka)

[wary tree]

Video from the attack makes it look like quite an amateur operation.

[river badge]

https://twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1771513431360754023

Faytuks News Δ (@Faytuks) on X

Kremlin tells Russia's pro-government media to emphasize possible ‘traces’ of ‘Ukrainian involvement’ when reporting on the Moscow terrorist attack, a state media employee & source in pro-Kremlin media says - Meduza

https://t.co/ROhMextpRr

Twitter · Mar 23, 2024, 12:24 PM

[rancid dome]

Is there any confirmation on how long it took armed police or tactical squads to arrive on scene or enter the building?

[tawny river]

RU embassy in Latvia claims the police isn't allowing Riga citizens to lay flower next to the embassy and the memorial had been placed opposite of the embassy building. They also voice displease that Riga, among European capitals, hadn't issued a message of compassion

https://t.me/rian_ru/237651

[clever pilot]

https://t.me/moscowmap/60725
Helicopter view

[tawny river]

First messages about a shooting: 20:23 Moscow time https://t.me/moscowach/24640
Message about armed forces being alerted and sent out: 20:35 Moscow time https://t.me/moscowach/24652
First message mentioning special forces and armed law enforcement on the scene: 21:07 Moscow time https://t.me/moscowach/24666

they could have arrived earlier BUT at the same time several TG channels mention that the SWAT team was being transported from Moscow to Krasnogorsk

Even from the nearest subway stations it takes 12 to 20 minutes by car with no traffic to get from Moscow to Krasnogorsk

[harsh root]

Dunno about 'confirmed' but here's something to go off https://t.me/istories_media/5708

[rancid dome]

Ah okay thanks I was curious

[upper apex]

#1220789867437363290 message
there's a timeline from Mash, which says the attack started 19:55 (no clue how reliable this is)

they say forces were preparing to storm the conference hall at 21:00

[upper apex]

where is the 5 attackers coming from?

The matyr photo only shows 4 + video only shows 4

[old spade]

for me just the dimension of the attack ruled that out. in the end there will be more fatalities than the moscow theater

[upper apex]

false flags were discussed several times in this thread. It's important to note that for every event people scream "false flag" but actual russian false flags are very very rare (and pretty obvious when they do happen).
So false flag discussions lead nowhere. It's best to not even entertain the idea unless there's some very obvious leads.

[tawny river]

Gentle reminder to new and incoming friends (no one in particular):

As a research-driven community we prioritize factual reporting and rule out speculative chatter.

I see some great insights emerging here. Let's keep discourse civil and topics on track.

[bronze thorn]

(Also, please read the pinned messages before posting.)

[waxen pivot]

No more false flag talk please

[tawny river]

One of the recovered bodies from Crocus had a suicide vest on it, lending to the rumors of there being more than 4 attackers

[harsh root]

Yeah it's usually just twisting the truth after the fact, or at a stretch, allowing things like this to occur and then controlling the narrative.

[bronze thorn]

Russia Terrorism Event Friday 22, 2024. (GRAPHIC CONTENT, READ THE PINS, NO FALSE FLAG TALK)

[tawny river]

Director of the music band "Picnic" that was playing last night can't locate their director Ekaterina Kushner still. They're waiting on ID of 4 unknown women at one of the hospitals

https://t.me/rian_ru/237660

US State Dept strongly advises all US citizens that are in Russia to leave

https://t.me/bbbreaking/178377

[upper apex]

that was later confirmed to be a false rumour, not sure I can find the denial though (found it, see directly below)

[steady yacht]

/me hands @bronze thorn the flamer. The heavy flamer. 😉

[upper apex]

found it:
#1220789867437363290 message

[scenic cedar]

https://t.me/Topaz_Penetrator/9811
Topaz is also auctioning the knife used to cut off the ear of the captured guy, so this is probably reliable

[tawny river]

I stand corrected

[upper apex]

dont think this video has been shared so far (most of the conference hall ceiling has collapsed):

https://vxtwitter.com/RALee85/status/1771594461656543594?s=20

[gleaming anchor]

This very incident is in fact obviously that because there's too many loopholes this time.

[bronze thorn]

Hi, please read the title of this post.

[steady yacht]

/me notes to the side that his stance on that issue hasn't changed since joining this thread.

[upper apex]

meduza made a map of the attackers path
https://meduza.io/feature/2024/03/23/kak-terroristy-voshli-v-krokus-siti-holl-i-chto-oni-uspeli-tam-sdelat-vosstanavlivaem-hronologiyu

[twin flare]

The unlikelihood that this was a false-flag is still not changing Russia's desire to use the event to bolster mobilization. Apparently recent official statements say Ukraine facilitated the attack. It will be interesting to see how the public will react to that.

[upper apex]

this is speculation, but I'd say it's more likely that they are primarily trying to distract from their security failure

[royal tundra]

If some come across the argument that it "looks weird" because they're pointing the left index to the sky and not the right as it seems to be more widely known, this isn't unusual https://fxtwitter.com/SimNasr/status/1771632391733367243/en

[twin flare]

What does the finger signify?

[upper apex]

it's a islamic tradition (?) to symbolize one god, not a direct extremist symbol
https://islam.stackexchange.com/questions/17569/what-is-the-significance-of-raising-the-index-finger-in-islam-apart-from-the-da

currently pro russian western commentators and opportunists are filling online spaces with bullshit about the attack and it's perpetrators

[royal tundra]

it's kind of extreme in itself as it suggests supremacy but it is not a thing limited to jihadists. For most people it's performed with the right hand and so spectators might be confused about left hand sign and think it's "proof" of some conspiracy or something

like "ha left hand instead of right, rookie mistake, obviously a Ukrainian/Russian plot"

[upper apex]

yeah currently have a lot of BS being thrown around

[twin flare]

I hate to ask such a callous question given the grim topic, but does the quickly rising death toll speak to poor medical treatment for the wounded, or is it just bodies being pulled from the wreckage?

[royal tundra]

and ISK's claim reduced a lot of it already

[upper apex]

ex: (cw misinformation) https://fxtwitter.com/OlgaNYC1211/status/1771634208470925419

[royal tundra]

could be both, it's not really surprising

[upper apex]

bodies being pulled from the wreakage (the main conference hall collapsed and they are clearing debris + identifying victims). The medical support should be fairly good since it's right in the capital.

[twin flare]

Yes, buts thats what you would think about think about the QRF response too.

[royal tundra]

bunch of people who might have got wounded and hid somewhere but died there too, things like that

[upper apex]

I dont think it's worth discussing, all injured (non-dead) victims would have been recovered in the first few hours, the rest stayed in the fire. This is also why you had big rises in nr. of dead, since they found fire victims trapped in the building (asphyxiation)

[safe oar]

@twin flare do you have an actual time sereies of how number of dead goes up?

[twin flare]

I dont have a series but I remember yesterday evening EST it was like 60. Then 80 now I see numbers near 120.

It's strange watching this from a western point of view. I think ultimately there are more similarities in our cultures than differences. But the differences are more apparent.

You can compare this with the Ulvade shooting, or more accurately with the Boston marathon bombing. And there certainly is a lot of bias in thinking a certain response was better than another.

[upper apex]

if you want to get numbers you need to look through russian news / tg channels repeating russian news, for example baza has a description:
(slight cw, description of death)

||28 bodies were found in one of the toilets of the Crocus City Hall. Also 14 bodies were found on one of the evacuation staircases.

According to sources, people were lying in families. Some died in an embrace. Many mothers were found hugging their children.||
https://t.me/bazabazon/26226

I don't think comparing or speculating does anything to progress this, supposed to be aggregating factual info, feel free to share timelines if you find any (so far only have one from mash)

[tawny river]

Bodies from the ruin + body fragments recovered

[mystic anchor]

Now sure how you can make the comparison?

[river idol]

There was a video earlier of (description warning: gore description) ||the cut off ear of one of the suspects being shoved into his mouth by Russian security services (the guy who was bleeding down the side of his face, I assume)||, that didn't really need to be posted, so I didn't.

That said, Russian Neo Nazi Yevgeniy Rasskazov ("TopaZ") of Rusich has posted that he will be auctioning said knife.

Link to SOTA Project's post on this, post contains a slightly bloody knife, and video of attack (highly advise that you don't open link, unless you want to research it further) ||https://t.me/sotaproject/(removethis)78027|| (link broken intentionally)

Censored said image to hide the blood.

[steady yacht]

Am I seeing things, or are they trying to hide a Sonnenrad (Black Sun) badge but failling miserably?

[river idol]

I didn't add that face, and yes, it looks to be the Sonnenrad.

I'm pretty sure it is Yevgeniy Rasskazov's face.

Photo for comparison: https://twitter.com/leonidragozin/status/1672905436805177344

[clever pilot]

that's exactly what they're doing, I count 12 on both

[steady yacht]

I know it wasn't you, seen the same Sonnenrad conceal EPIC FAIL pic a number of times now.
It might be something to try to figure if there is a (para)military unit with the Sonnenrad as a logo element, maybe with something dead center they hide with the pic?

[river idol]

I hope you accept that I will not link to his Telegram, but here is his DM with his subscriber who's knife it was.

His Telegram also has a picture of his subscriber with a AK rifle to the head of one of the suspects.

[upper apex]

https://fxtwitter.com/CalibreObscura/status/1771658261839671651?s=20

[river idol]

Oh shit, didn't spoiler it correctly.

[hearty owl]

Not sure you need to count the points on the Sonenrad when the other photos from that set have death's heads photoshopped in for persec on the security service operators lol. Cw: mild gore from the knife photo set

https://twitter.com/den_kazansky/status/1771583919025959388?t=WnQW0Mkh9YWIp66-klDzuw&s=19

[upper apex]

Seems like ISIS got footage from the attackers before they got arrested, this should invalidate anyone still claiming it wasn’t them

[hearty owl]

Cropped photos if that's useful:

[river badge]

https://twitter.com/SaladinAlDronni/status/1771657168665690479 Islamic State Central has just released a video recorded by the IS militants during the attack in Moscow. Multiple bodies and a throat slitting of a dying man were shown in the process.

(The tweet itself don't contain the gore, it only show few screen captures of the perpetrators)

[upper apex]

Please don’t link / post video.

Here’s a Twitter thread describing its contents (and select screenshots without graphic content)
https://fxtwitter.com/SaladinAlDronni/status/1771657168665690479?s=20

[upper apex]

The footage also seems to show the same ak-12 that was found at the site

[river idol]

The stock is different from the Sledcom photo.

That (in the ISIS footage) is an old school AK stock. Presumably one of the other AKs, though.

[steady yacht]

Wonder if anyone can confirm that Russian state controlled TV is going with the narrative that the attack bears the hallmark of "Western nazis". The one who's supposed to have said it is Michail Leontjev. https://www.expressen.se/nyheter/varlden/rysk-tv-attacken-i-moskva--typisk-for-europeiska-nazister/ (In Swedish 🇸🇪)
And yeah, there's a lot of chatter blaming anyone but IS for the Crocus attack.

[timid marten]

Russian media along with Putin in his message to the nation are trying to link the attack to Ukraine saying the attackers had a safe corridor provided for them at the Ukrainian border to escape

[steady yacht]

Not only Ukrainian help according to the Xitter guys...

[harsh root]

Heh

[timid marten]

I wonder if the origin of the weapons can be tracked to Russians own security forces (not suspecting false flag, just interesting who sold them)

[harsh root]

https://fxtwitter.com/leventkemaI/status/1771658360686883149

[upper apex]

Calibreobscura posted that the weapon found from the conference hall is likely to come from the “special military operation” (first gen ak 12)

[steady yacht]

You guys suspecting disgruntled and radicalized returnees from the "SMO"?

[warm cedar]

Or there's a black market for pilfered goods.

[steady yacht]

Also a clear possibility.

[upper apex]

https://fxtwitter.com/AricToler/status/1771663076615422260?s=20

[river idol]

Just as further connection, in the pictures, the green-shirt guy is wearing the grey ammo vest that was recovered and shown by Sledcom as well.

Also, Zelensky touched on Crocus in his latest statement: https://vxtwitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1771638417266257987

[hoary dirge]

@glacial citrus (or if anyone else can answer) was it released by ISIS or ISIS-K? Or do they both release stuff together/interchangeably?

[steady yacht]

Anyways, the hunch is based on a political YouTuber I follow, in his commentary, he's repeatedly pointed out that it may come to be that returnees from the SMO come back disgruntled and radicalized, and begin lashing out.

[steady yacht]

From previous IS-related terror attacks, a lot of commentary by terror experts has repeatedly said that IS has had a tendency to take responsibility for attacks people do "lone wolf" style, sort of like a terror franchise. And it has happened that IS has disavowed involvement when the perp or the act didn't fit their taste.

[warm cedar]

Soldiers coming home disgruntled from war is universal, but connecting it to this specific terrorist act is quite speculative. Do you have any evidence?

[hoary dirge]

Gotcha, I wasn’t sure if all/some/none of ISIS-K stuff gets released by ISIS or if they release things separately so I was just curious. Thanks for the follow up.

[steady yacht]

Not saying that it is connected, just pointing it out that such a connection can't be ruled out, at least not at this juncture. As to who, if you're familiar with Beau of the Fifth Column, he's raised that possibility a couple of times in his commentary on events in Ukraine.

[upper apex]

There has been nothing connecting the attackers to the “SMO”, them being ex participants would surely be a bombshell

[steady yacht]

It's just with your comment that the guns they appear to have been using or been caught with didn't enter into widespread service until the SMO, one possibility is, as @warm cedar pointed out, black market weapons, but the other is that they got them while serving in the SMO.
Like, either could be the case, but the latter would be more of a "curve ball".

[upper apex]

In Germany far left (BSW) as well as far right (AfD) politicians strew doubts about who could be behind the attack (using almost the same language).
Both parties are known for their pro russian positions / connections.
https://x.com/ConStelz/status/1771599028243046604?s=20
https://x.com/peterhense/status/1771605836147654908?s=20

[harsh root]

https://t.me/pilotblog/10763

[hearty owl]

Feels like the 300,000+ Russian casualties in Ukraine (or whatever that number is at now after Avdiivka) means it's orders of magnitude more likely some AK12s have wound up on the black market than any speculative narrative about disgruntled Tajik conscripts or whatever.

[jagged badger]

Also when you focus all your resources on an unjustified conflict instead of the other ones you’ve created with your Wagner groups and such, it becomes easier for things to fall through the cracks.

[river idol]

https://t.me/shot_shot/64055

https://t.me/astrapress/52208

The suspects will be brought to Basmanny court house to hold a hearing on preventive measures, heightened security as you'd expect.

[river idol]

RT Germany are livestreaming outside Basmanny courthouse on VK: https://vk.com/video/@rt_de?z=video-134310637_456275517

Youtube channel has rehosted that if you want to avoid VK/RT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4gdL1T9zhs

[old sleet]

https://www.voanews.com/a/while-small-in-number-tajik-fighters-an-asset-for-islamic-state-khorasan/7465311.html

[upper apex]

looking through #isis and "media" on twitter and you don't need to scroll long to find the full ISIS released attacker video (in my case shared by disinfo account "lord bebo")
https://fxtwitter.com/CalibreObscura/status/1771832451188347353

[upper apex]

https://fxtwitter.com/polidemitolog/status/1771849488946151670

[modest oriole]

Are either of these people TopaZ himself, or is TopaZ sending photos taken by people in the area? The auction of the knife suggests that it's his knife, but I'm wondering if there's clearer evidence.

[faint gate]

It's not his knife. One of his followers is the owner and participated in the arrest and tortures.

TopaZ is one of the neo-nazi bloggers https://t.me/s/Topaz_Penetrator

[river idol]

Yea, see here. @modest oriole

[little prawn]

Unverified posts saying a Crocus concert hall photographer had taken a picture of one of the terrorists on March 7, 2024. This would align with the warning the US put out on March 8, 2024 about imminent plans of a terrorist attack on a large gathering/concert. https://t.me/bazabazon/26288

[ocean lotus]

I see that people here outright reject the idea of "inside job" because ISIS took responsibility. Alright, but there is a well-known practice of intelligence and security agencies infiltrating radical groups and changing the way that individual cells act. I think rejecting the hypothesis of an inside job is just as hasty as it is to claim that there was one. Let me know why one hypothesis is more valid than the other given the information available.

[harsh root]

Occam's razor should apply. I think the furthest you can stretch given the information available is to not rule out knowing it was going to happen, letting it happen, and controlling the narrative after. Not masterminding it.

[old sleet]

The history of ISIS wanting to hit a big target like Russia much like they did in Iran multiple times as well as Western Europe like France. IS Khorasan has lost a lot of territory to the Taliban which usually makes High Profile Attacks a higher priority in order to raise their group’s profile and prestige to make up for the losses.

[vale tendon]

@ocean lotus Read the thread rules

[bronze thorn]

Hi, please read the title of the forum post.

[upper apex]

https://fxtwitter.com/artkondakov/status/1771876719433007333?s=20

[little prawn]

To follow up on the issue of conflicting information on where the car was stopped, I have been keeping an eye on related discussions but have not seen any new information come out.

Some people are saying that the initial report that the car was stopped in "Teplyi" was a misunderstanding as there is a "Teploe" village that is right up near where officials have said the car was stopped, Khatsun village. The addition of the confirmed geolocated arrest of one of the terrorists also adds to the likelihood that Khatsun is correct.

The only question still out is why there are official reports that Belarus Ambassador confirmed Belarus helped prevent the terrorists from crossing the Belarus border. ( https://www.gazeta.ru/politics/news/2024/03/23/22615531.shtml) It could be a mistranslation or misinterpretation, but support currently point to Khatsun as the stopping point.

[waxen pivot]

Hi, I've timed you out for one day for this post.

We've repeatedly asked people to not speculate false flag or other conspiracy theories. This is because we are an open source research server that is focused on sharing and analyzing factual information. We do not want this to be a space where people speculate on whatever theories they come up with because then we'll just have endless speculation.

**Please stick to the purpose of the server, which is to share and analyze factual information. This is not a server for speculating or debating your speculations. **

[upper apex]

Update from RIA on the investigation commission:

Details from the Investigative Committee on the terrorist attack in Crocus:

▪️4 sets of combat ammunition, more than 500 rounds of ammunition and 28 magazines, 2 AKs with which the attackers were armed were confiscated from the scene of the terrorist attack in Crocus

▪️Investigations are being carried out on 4 suspects in the terrorist attack in Crocus

▪️In the near future, the Investigative Committee will take measures to select preventive measures in the form of detention against 4 suspects in the terrorist attack in Crocus

▪️Currently, the bodies of 137 people have been found at the site of the terrorist attack in Crocus, three of whom are children

▪️To date, 62 bodies have been identified after the terrorist attack in Crocus

▪️Work has begun on issuing personal belongings, documents and cars to people who were in the concert complex on the day of the terrorist attack in Crocus

https://t.me/rian_ru/237793
Says they recovered 2 AKs from the attack, but I didn’t see them recovering AKs from the vehicle, does that mean attacker weapons are partially missing?

[cunning sundial]

I assume the ambassador was making the statement in Russian, so mistranslation is unlikely

[loud quiver]

supposedly the suspects fled their car without weapons

[visual void]

Has anyone seen any WHY statements, objectives, reasons, demands, goals, hostages, targeted assassination, anything?

[upper apex]

#1220789867437363290 message

[river idol]

https://t.me/shot_shot/64094

What looks like two of the suspects being taken to the Investigative Committee's building.

[river idol]

Location is obvious from the building sign, but montage just because.

Co-ordinates: 55.7637508,37.682104

Link: https://maps.app.goo.gl/3kUWztZZsYJRks6X9

[harsh root]

How reliable is https://t.me/vchkogpu He's made a bold claim

[warm cedar]

Sometimes surprisingly well-informed - but always verify.

[harsh root]

Can't really

[warm cedar]

About the van? Might be good to look at the video again.

[harsh root]

Ah yes, the guy with the dog. Remember seeing that. Suspect alright.

[vocal basin]

Not necessarily some big conspiracy. Uvalde cops, all over again

Confusion + incompetence + cowardice

[harsh root]

Agree

[tulip quartz]

Now new photographs are being posted on z-channels of one of the arrested suspects with his pants pulled down hands tied behind his back and a grimace on his face on an indoor wooden sports floor with what seems like a large (car size) battery and leads going to his groin area

[vocal basin]

surprised they're not broadcasting the torture live on TV

[vale tendon]

The SOP probably does call for certain preparations that take time (finding floor plans, making a plan based on them, and organizing the personnel for each task, I would imagine) - can't say how bad an hour would for time to get that done given the preparations they might have had ahead of time, though.

[vocal basin]

that's a SOP doomed to failure when you have multiple active shooters killing people inside a building.

if your goal is to save lives other than those of the responders, of course

[vale tendon]

Sure, but you can't just send people in if they don't even know the floor plan or who's in charge

[vocal basin]

if those are the only lives you care about, take all the time you want. Of course in this case, they were so slow they even allowed the shooters to escape

[vale tendon]

The most glaring issue is not immediately securing the outside of the mall, which let the terrorists escape. That you should be able to do without preparations.

[vocal basin]

Personally I think the most glaring issue is sitting by doing nothing while four shooters massacred dozens of people. By doing so, they may have also let even more people die due to smoke inhalation

[river idol]

I'm going to completely blur (spoilered still) out the photograph besides that part necessary to identify it, but the battery object is a Soviet-era Field telephone TA-57.

[steady yacht]

The ringing generator for (field) telephones delivers something like 90 Volts AC, and is very painful to experience already in a non-torture setting.
Ask me how I know...

[river idol]

Yep, searching the model you can find videos of it being used to torture Ukrainian servicemembers with electric shocks, as well electronic shock pranks by Russian soldiers in barracks.

[harsh root]

Was about to say

[pallid silo]

Field telephones were used back in Vietnam to torture POWs, it's a long running tradition.

[bronze thorn]

Please read the title of the forum post.

[upper apex]

it is speculation, anders is speculating that it's a false flag operation (without providing extraordinary evidence to prove this)

[river idol]

https://vxtwitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/1771942832674128242

[pallid silo]

Arguing for false flag and book sales.

[river idol]

The Telegram post that Kevin refers to:

(CW: Description of said torture.)

[visual void]

i thought the thread had interesting facts i had not seen anywhere reported, anyway onwards

[dim gyro]

Wait for couple of months

[teal ridge]

So two people were charged for terrorism. What happened with the other two? Did both of them die? I thought only one

[upper apex]

https://t.me/rian_ru/237847

Two brought before the court now, so far only one seen, camera crews on site (the one seen so far is still wearing the same clothes and looks to be in bad shape)

[upper apex]

Last information I know is that all 4 were arrested and alive

[teal ridge]

Other two in hospital?

[upper apex]

The one with the bad eye was in the hospital, they also released an interview of him there.

One they cut the ear off, not sure where he is. Haven’t been keeping track. (Not sure which one it was which they publicly tortured today)

[upper apex]

seems like they will separately bring them before the court, first suspect they brought looks to be in bad shape / beaten with an black eye (not sure if that was from the "arrest" or later) slight cw but no blood, he is described as "Далерджон Мирзоев" (Dalerdzhon Mirzoyev) 32 years old, married with 4 children and from Tajikistan https://t.me/rian_ru/237858

now they brought the second suspect out, it's the guy they cut the ear off. He is (apart from the ear) in a similar bad shape and has the same black eye as Dalerdzhon. He is named as Рачабализод Саидакрами (Rachabalizod Saidakrami) https://t.me/rian_ru/237859

112 has a comparison photo of the first suspect after arrest and now. (slight cw)

they are celebrating his "visual changes in the last 24 hours"
https://t.me/ENews112/17183

Missing from court:

grey shirt + black pants guy (person who they tortured with the telephone) and “bad eye” guy who was last in hospital

[teal zenith]

https://twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1771988789004476477?t=C7fqmYTXez1R-tKstlkTSQ&s=19

Anne Applebaum (@anneapplebaum) on X

"The cruelty of the killing and even the choice of venue—a concert hall—are all awfully familiar to anyone acquainted with jihadism in Russia. What comes next will be familiar too" - from @gcaw https://t.co/qPT3KCXHAs

Twitter · Mar 24, 2024, 7:53 PM

[loud quiver]

the guy with the eye I saw later on a hospital bed, completely naked :/ I guess we not allowed to call the suspects by name?

[upper apex]

Mirzoyev has now pleaded guilty to all charges (?) in court
https://t.me/rian_ru/237864

[upper apex]

I'm not sure which names were officially reported, I'm just using the ones I saw RIA report from the court hearing (it's pretty much confirmed that the 4 people arrested were the attackers)

https://fxtwitter.com/ABarbashin/status/1771987894472704319?s=20

[upper apex]

Seems like they will bring all 4 suspects before court today.

❗️ Sessions on two more defendants in the terrorist attack case - Muhammadsober Faizov and Fariduni Shamsidin - will begin soon.
https://t.me/moscowach/24928

[obsidian mason]

France also has a big history of using these in its colonies, we even have a nickname for it: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gégène (article in french, the english one doesn't have much content, use deepl.com if you want to translate it)

[upper apex]

"surprise"! second suspect is now also pleading guilty.
https://t.me/rian_ru/237868

They now brought in the third suspect (it's the guy they tortured with the telephone) to plead guilty
https://t.me/ENews112/17190

25-year-old Фаридуни Шамсутдина (Faridouni Shamsidin)
https://t.me/bazabazon/26328

[upper apex]

before / after:

they are rolling in the last fourth suspect in a wheelchair, he looks half comatose. no way he is in a state to stand trail.
Мухаммадсобира Файзова (Muhammadsoobir Faizov) 19 years old
https://t.me/moscowach/24934

[half ivy]

The dailymail in the UK has published a full article on the treatment of the individuals
||https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13233511/Russian-forces-torturing-Moscow-terror-suspect-hooking-genitals-battery.html||
[CW: descriptions of torture even in the hyperlink and pictures of abuse throughout].

[loud quiver]

what exactly are they pleading guilty to? Cause the worry I have is that they're being tortured to enforce confession that they acted for a certain neighboring country, so that it feeds Putin's agenda

[upper apex]

No idea. But this is obviously a showtrial with publicized torture of suspects so they will "say" whatever Putin wants.

[loud quiver]

Mirzoev still has plastic bag from torture around his neck, every one of them got tortured in different ways

[dim gyro]

I don't remember anything like this. I mean, public tortures.

[harsh root]

They're in war time and with the internet the public is already desensitised

[upper apex]

After failing to protect the public they want to distract by providing revenge.

[cunning sundial]

Wagnerites surely paved the way with their sledgehammer videos

[upper apex]

this sums it up:
https://fxtwitter.com/mitchprothero/status/1771949303671541939?s=20

My own two cents:
I don’t think there will be any further factual revelations in the next few days, instead we will see Putins Russia forming the narrative they want to tell.

[loud quiver]

MH17 vibes all over

[wind estuary]

someone at Dailymail really said "fuck it, run it all" huh

[half ivy]

Yeah including the url, all the images are uncensored. No doubt they just want clicks irrrespective of the consequences

[desert badge]

Reputable news orgs have begun naming the suspects, so you're all free to use those names now
Live Updates: Security Questions Emerge as First Charges Are Filed in Russia Attack https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/03/24/world/moscow-russia-attack-news?smid=nytcore-android-share&ugrp=c&pvid=baa42876-de32-4b75-8f89-22dd24009f33

"Four men were arraigned late Sunday night on terrorism charges in the attack at Crocus City Hall, just outside the Russian capital. A court spokesman identified them as Dalerjon Mirzoyev, Saidakrami Rachabalizoda, Shamsidin Fariduni and Muhammadsobir Fayzov, a 19-year-old who appeared in court in a wheelchair, according to Russian media outlets."

[half ivy]

Is there a disinfo channel for this event? As some of the X stuff is wild

[waxen pivot]

Nope! you can make one if you want

[thin hound]

I know this is semantics/nitpicky but I believe it's actually just a blindfold, appears they use some plastic to stop the 'tape sticking' then use electrical or duct tape to wrap around the eye area. I'm not really sure why they blindfold them but they all arrived blindfolded.

Seems they've just pulled down the blindfold to around his neck, colour matches.

Can see here:
#1220789867437363290 message

[tawny river]

I'm not really sure why they blindfold them but they all arrived blindfolded.

You can see Russian anti-terror units have all masked themselves to conceal identities, which is common practice. For these suspects, it also prevents them from identifying the surroundings, court officials and members of the public, and possibly court documents.

It's also a control technique. See how they are hunched over in the frogmarch with hands on shoulder and neck? Those are mobility controls that severely limits the suspects' ability to escape, jostle around, or fight back. They can't fight well without visibility.

[teal ridge]

Even if I agree that it is shocking, I don’t really think the civilisational discourse on here is fruitful, and they don’t really address the purpose of the channel either (i.e. facts)

To me this read like: “our enemies are more barbaric than us, because whilst we torture people behind closed doors, they do it in public!”. Let’s also not forget that the former (and possibly next) president of a UNSC member also openly supported torture. /rant

[upper apex]

seeing posts on twitter which seem to be a russian disinfo campaign targeting german users:
https://vxtwitter.com/JadalynCum83624/status/1771977260326936861?s=20
(these were all replies to some random tweet reply)

pretty crude campaign:
https://x.com/ASingleton45513/status/1771961156145398183?s=20
looks like someone bought a spam network (some accounts were posting crypto before, all very new, low quality)

[upper apex]

the video is interesting, it both praises the fast reaction of the authorities disrupting the attack (which doesn´t seem to have been the case), spreads misinfo about victims (20 children, ru media talking about 3 so far) and also says that they were trying to cross into Ukraine. Ending the video showing zelensky in a SS uniform and questioning why we are helping Ukraine.

All this done with a german voice over which sounds legit (the german also doesn´t have any obvious accents) and spread with a probably for-hire spam network

[upper apex]

if someone is able to reverse search the video i'd be interested to see if it has been posted somewhere else before

[upper apex]

okay right at the end of the video there seems to be a slight accent which sounds russian.
(you can hear it in "wohin sie fliehen wollten" and slightly in "das Land dem wir helfen")

[alpine cipher]

When its on Elons X you get away with lowest quality spam accounts apparently,.

[upper apex]

it seems to be a fresh network, I think it's a campaign someone is trying to get out the door as quickly as possible

[upper apex]

The insider has just made a report about the same bot network:

https://theins.press/en/news/270225

[upper apex]

Putin controlled Russian media Izvestia is now claiming that the 500k ruble (about 5k usd) "payment" for the attack was for all attackers together.
https://archive.is/G7bOM

[upper apex]

If true a Russian quick response force was less than 10 minutes away from the attack:
https://fxtwitter.com/Alexey__Kovalev/status/1772222452598239624

[harsh root]

Police station next door https://yandex.ru/maps/org/otdel_politsii_mikrorayona_pavshino/90148674047/?indoorLevel=2&ll=37.388376%2C55.823151&z=17

[tulip quartz]

Right in between is the Regional court , Parliamant and administrative buildings of the Moscow Region ... each of these entities have on premise police stations.

So not even need to cross the ring road.

[cunning sundial]

This image is circulating on social media, claiming to be published by ISIS-affiliated channels. Has anyone verified the source? https://vxtwitter.com/saladinaldronni/status/1772207388633731357

[vale tendon]

https://t.me/kakhresaneh
Source given by another Discord channel (Iranian telegram)

Logo matches Al-Azaim Media Production, at least based on the image from this article https://thediplomat.com/2023/01/iskp-flexes-its-propaganda-muscles-on-social-media/

[harsh root]

Seems legit

[upper apex]

NEXTA is pushing a unsubstantiated conspiracy theory that the concert hall was full of FSB agents

[ashen ridge]

Yeah I just saw that. That's actually why I joined the server lol because I wanted to know what people on here think of it

[spring spindle]

NEXTA is a horrible source which really tries to profit from sensationalism with very questionable practices. I'd very strongly recommend everyone to avoid linking NEXTA and Visegrad24 too (they have ties to the Polish far right) and spend a bit more time to find where they got their info/content

[harsh root]

Maks seems suspect too but just a hunch

[dense crypt]

But i did looked strange to me how these guys were acting

[ashen ridge]

Although I agree, the thing is, we don't know how we would act in a situation like this. Its beyond something we can really imagine.

[spring spindle]

Maks is an aggregator too, but I haven't seen him do things that NEXTA does like watermarking images of the Navalny film when he died.

We're steering a bit off topic tho, so I'd ask to continue this conversation in either #disinfo-and-propaganda or #russia-ukraine-eastern-europe (as their content is mostly wrt the war in Ukraine)

[glacial citrus]

Just pubbed this a bit ago: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/25/world/europe/moscow-attack-suspects-russia-evidence.html

Nothing terribly new. Similar work that some Russian independent media have already done.
What is actually new: I found the IG and FB accounts for Faridun, which is the newest bit of info in there. It shows he was indeed in Istanbul in February (posted photos of him at a mosque there on Feb 23 on IG, and Feb 27 on FB). And that he is Tajik.

[upper apex]

Putin seems to have just done another speech where he acknowledges ISIS as the perpetrator, but insinuates that Ukraine contracted ISIS to do the attack https://t.me/bazabazon/26381 (or that whoever makes Ukraine fight Russia is also behind the ISIS attack)

Again lots typical UA speak, “fight to the last ukrainian” “carry out washingtons command” Nazi references, claims of corruption

Please see this #1220789867437363290 message and read the thread title

[rigid delta]

🫡

[upper apex]

Also, all 4 suspects have now “pleaded guilty” (before the trial has even begun..)

And three more people were officially arrested for helping the suspects (providing car, handling money, house) no idea how credible those claims are https://t.me/moscowach/24989

[steady yacht]

TY for post, did a google translate (can any russian speaker check this one that it makes sense?) when I shared elsewhere, hopefully okay to post.

Vladimir Putin about the terrorist attack at Crocus City Hall and SVO:
“We know that the terrorist attack was carried out by radical Islamists. We are interested in who the customer is.
“The terrorist attack can only be a link for those who have been fighting us with the hands of the Kyiv regime since 2014.” And the Nazis never hesitated to use the dirtiest methods. Especially now that their counteroffensive has failed. The goal is to show that all is not lost for the Kyiv regime. We need to follow Western curators and fight to the last Ukrainian, and also create something like the Hitler Youth in a new edition.
“Despite the general pain, the investigation must proceed objectively and without bias.
— The United States, through various channels, is trying to convince everyone that there is supposedly no Kyiv trace in the bloody terrorist attack in Crocus, that it is the banned ISIS.
“We need to answer the question why the terrorists tried to go to Ukraine after committing the crime and who was waiting for them there.
— Russian society, against the backdrop of the terrorist attack in Crocus, showed real cohesion and solidarity.
⚠️ℹ️ N.B.: Machine translation 🇷🇺➡️🇬🇧 (Google Translate) ℹ️⚠️

[upper apex]

Rothrock shared a subtitled video.

https://fxtwitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/1772335792406315032?s=20

[little prawn]

Sus considering initial reports at the time of the attack said that the prior owner of the car had turned himself over to the police as soon as he saw his car was being used in the attack. Don't think that's normal ISIS modus operandi but it's like proaganda machine vs propaganda machine, who do you believe.

[harsh root]

That guy is protesting his innocence and lack of connection to ISIS so it tracks

[rigid delta]

I do love the nazi 🤝 islamic terrorist team putin is proposing

Surly this won’t make sense to the Russian people?

[harsh root]

You would think but they seem to be the intended audience of the message

[rigid delta]

The whole circumstances leading up to the event are strange is they were true. They were like contracted out to do the massacre? Is that normal also?

[timid marten]

I’ve been monitoring Russian channels all day - it sure makes sense to them

[upper apex]

I think the only thing we can conclude from this is that Putin publicly believes Ukraine / US has to be involved but that he has zero evidence even with Torture.

[rigid delta]

This must be to justify further action in Ukraine/possibly rally support in Moscow for conscription?

[upper apex]

Ofc it's to justify the war in UA, but not specific actions.

I don't think there's a point discussing what the public may believe (it's speculative) simply because the entire reasons for the UA war were also nonsensical.

[cunning sundial]

or deflect from his own failure of dismissing Western intelligence warnings

[timid marten]

Also they’re linking that second message from ISIS with Ukraine, so the direction of their propaganda is pretty clear https://t.me/readovkanews/76803

[rigid delta]

What I meant was, and what my understanding was is the Muscovites have been fairly insulated from the war in the Ukraine. So if he can use this to rally support. The old saying of never letting a tragedy go to waste tracks

[harsh root]

You can't trust a word as they were under duress

[upper apex]

I still havent seen any Russian state entity / campaign go beyond the claim that they were heading towards UA to tie the attack to UA.
RU state is positioned to shift blame to UA but they still havent provided any further links. Even putin hasn't (the opposite even, he finally acknowledged that it was islamic attackers)

[rigid delta]

Oh I am not talking about the terrorists. I am talking about the people of Moscow

[harsh root]

I get the impression so much confusion has been sowed that critical thinking has been destroyed. You hear what you want to hear at that point.

[timid marten]

That’s true, but their propaganda doesn’t need any facts. Putin said they’ll be investigating who “ordered” the attack, hinting at UA and the west.

[upper apex]

I think the most interesting thing will be how it develops.
If they'll drop it, continue handwaving it, or go all in.

[rigid delta]

Is there a disinfo channel yet? I’ve seen some truly insane stuff being spread

[harsh root]

https://discord.com/channels/709752884257882135/709944967979597886

[timid marten]

On Musk’s platform?

[rigid delta]

Some news outlets also, but primarily “citizen journalists” on X

[obsidian mason]

If only it had been!

[obsidian mason]

Given how they control internet and that you can go to jail for a blank sign in russia it's not surprising to find only russians that agree with Putin online

[rigid delta]

To be honest I think these are the minority of people also. The Russians I know are at best indifferent. Which of course is a small sample size

[obsidian mason]

Indifference seems to be common in authoritarian regimes. People tend just live their lives avoiding anything related to politics as it can be dangerous even to agree with the regime, be it by losing customers or having the government change its stance on most subjects and being left as someone who has defended the previous stance.

[wary tree]

An increasingly frustrated Daesh having to repeatedly insist that they did a terrorist attack because everyone has dumbass conspiracy brainworms now is objectively very funny

[warm cedar]

https://vxtwitter.com/nezumi_ningen/status/1771616649566650523

[wary tree]

yes but "Daesh" bothers them even more

[faint gate]

There are plenty of Russian youtube bloggers who disagree with Putin with more than million of subscribers, I can provide links if you’re interested

[timid marten]

That’s very true, especially when it’s personalist autocracy the agenda of the day changes with the mood of one single person.

[wary tree]

Transliteration of Arabic دَاعِش (dāʕiš, literally “D.I.I.S.”) the Arabic language acronym for الدَّوْلَة الْإِسْلَامِيَّة فِي الْعِرَاق وَالشَّام (ad-dawla l-ʔislāmiyya fī l-ʕirāq wa-š-šām, literally “State Islamic of Iraq and the Levant”). The forms Da'esh, Da'ish and Daish refer to the same acronym but are transliterated differently. The Arabic acronym is thought to have been coined in 2013 by a Syrian activist. It resembles the Arabic words دعس (da'es) (that which is crushed) or داحس (dāhis) (one who causes discord).

[heady jungle]

Didn't I see a tweet with this exact wording today or yesterday? I have a feeling of deja vu.

[wary tree]

#1220789867437363290 message

[warm cedar]

No bro, this one says Daesh. 🤣

[wary tree]

It is interesting that a terror attack isn't even taken at face value, even with attribution

[obsidian mason]

"Plenty" on 143 millions people probably isn't that big, and how many of those live in another country and possibly have a second passport?

[faint gate]

Did you miss “more than million of subscribers” part?

[obsidian mason]

Subs don't have to be russian, nor living in russia

[wary tree]

It's important to remember that internet statistics are rarely authentic

[faint gate]

Youtube has demography stats

[obsidian mason]

I may be wrong but I thought these stats were only disclosed to the owner of the channel

[warm cedar]

Anyway... does anyone have any news to share on this subject?

[obsidian mason]

BBC Verify recently made an article https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68657383

[upper apex]

Baza summarized the report publicly given to putin about the attack

139 people were killed in the terrorist attack at Crocus City Hall.

The terrorists stayed in Crocus for 13 minutes, from 19:58 to 20:11. 137 died on the spot, two died in hospital. 182 people were injured. This was reported by the head of the IC at a meeting with Vladimir Putin.

https://t.me/bazabazon/26382

[rigid delta]

Jesus up to 139 now

[upper apex]

this leaves open obvious questions like:

What was the security response in those 13 minutes

How long did it take emergency services to get the clear to enter the building
(high number of deaths but low number of deaths in hospital -> seriously injured / trapped didnt get reached in time)

[upper apex]

to highlight this:

All 12 extremely serious patients after the terrorist attack in "Crocus City Hall" are alive, almost half of them have already moved to the category of serious patients, said the mayor of Moscow Sergey Sergei Sobyanin.
His words are reported by RIA Novosti.

"They are being assisted by the best Moscow doctors... At present we have not lost a single one... There is hope that all 12 will survive," Sobyanin told.

(source https://archive.is/eCWVT)

There is so far 139 confirmed deaths, but only 12 critically injured in hospitals (in total 94 people hospitalized with 18 discharged).

I'm not sure what the ratios for other attacks are, but comparing it to Paris nov 2015 attacks, you had 130 killed, 416 injured with 100 critically (195 or more hospitalized)

This hints that for those that needed help, it didn't arrive in time.
I'm not an expert though, if someone has more info / experience please share

[harsh root]

Well, i'm pretty sure i read most suffocated but i'm a bit tired to try to find it. Probably one of Readovka, SOTAvision, or Mediazona.

[upper apex]

yeah, there's multiple reports of people being trapped and suffocating, but here rescuers could have been able to reach them in time (maybe)
not sure how quickly the fire spread

[harsh root]

There's this, but i haven't delved any further 'cause it's not like there's any accountability #1220789867437363290 message

[vale tendon]

In most legal systems pleas happen before trial (the trial specifically exists to resolve a not guilty plea) so that part isn't unexpected. However they might have negotiated for the plea a little further if they got normal legal defense and were not tortured.

[rigid delta]

To be honest I bet their options were plead and get a quick death or don’t and get a show trial and a slow death

[full mason]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TA-57

Due to the nature of the TA-57 in the video, a new Wikipedia article was created yesterday about it. I decided to contribute what I can to the dimension and specs of the field telephone.

[warm cedar]

It seems to be lacking a link to the ‘Phonecall to Putin’ article, or vice versa.

[full mason]

https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/hrbodies/hrcouncil/coiukraine/A_HRC_52_62_AUV_EN.pdf (page 11, paragraph 75)

https://www.moscowtimes.ru/2023/03/16/zvonok-putinu-oon-raskrila-metodi-pitok-rossiiskoi-armii-v-ukraine-a37047

The Moscow Times identifies the TA-57 as the "Tapik" while citing the information in the UN report.

[warm cedar]

Sorry, I meant the existing Wikipedia article called ‘Phonecall to Putin. If you’re going to mention torture at all (the Ukrainian article doesn’t, for instance) and you’re even using the expression, then it seems strange not to link to the actual article.

[full mason]

Ahhh...I see what you mean. Yeah I can definitely link the two articles together. Appreciate the feedback

Alrighty. It's done.

[full mason]

Yeah I didn't even know that the phrase had its own standalone article.

[ocean lotus]

There are more arrests in the case: https://www.rbc.ru/photoreport/26/03/2024/660083df9a794774d7d584a7
They arrested a guy who sold them the car and a guy who was renting out an apartment to them.

[upper apex]

Seems like Russia is seriously considering reinstating the death penalty https://infosec.exchange/@kevinrothrock/112161562287369282

This is bad news for activists as they are also being charged under terrorism provisions

[warm cedar]

They’ve tried before. I’m sure a similar plan failed after Nord Ost.

[spring spindle]

Not just activists. Note that LGBTQ people in Russia are considered to belong to a terrorist organisation.

But as Subtle said, it is not the first time it has been tried to be implemented. We'll see if this time the effort goes forward, let's hope not

[ocean lotus]

The logic is completely different this time. Russia in 2002 and Russia in 2024 are two different beasts.

[little prawn]

New info about the escape route posted on The insider https://t.me/istories_media/5794 although I think they incorrectly state they were stopped in the "Surazhsky district", which I believe is incorrect. That was initial thoughts, but all current reports support Bryansky District as the proximate stop area.

[upper apex]

AFP did report this, don’t know how to link to them though: https://fxtwitter.com/Faytuks/status/1772616719862755690?s=20

[desert badge]

AFP is Agent France Presse so you can start there

[scarlet shell]

[Deleted] wrong paste/was same as @upper apex

[upper apex]

I’d like to know how to actually access AFP releases, I only get this widget

[scarlet shell]

https://www.afp.com/fr/search/results/Loukachenko

Hmm I'll try English version then

[upper apex]

BBCrussia reported this:

https://www.bbc.com/russian/live/news-68642081?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=6602c499b26acd1fbf32fced%26Лукашенко%3A нападавшие на «Крокус» пошли на участок украинско-российской границы%2C потому что не могли проникнуть в Беларусь%262024-03-26T12%3A50%3A34.627Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:e449a56a-050e-4ea4-9da5-e2e53e406315&pinned_post_asset_id=6602c499b26acd1fbf32fced&pinned_post_type=share

[upper apex]

Sorry for the ugly link, it’s from the live feed. It’s legit though

[pale niche]

"They couldn't go to Belarus. Their curators (we have suspicions about some, this is me to Putin I’ll call and tell you my suspicions) - they understood that they couldn’t enter Belarus. Because in the first minutes, as in Russia, part of the region switched to enhanced security regime, so it is with us"

[scarlet shell]

So to whom was he making these statements? Does it say which (original) newsoutlet?

[pale niche]

it says quotes Lukashenko's reasoning agency BELTA (Belarusian Telegraph Agency)

[upper apex]

https://www.belta.by/president/view/lukashenko-rasskazal-o-vzaimodejstvii-s-rossiej-pri-zaderzhanii-terroristov-623748-2024/

[scarlet shell]

Ah. Now I get it, thank you.

https://twitter.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1772620091512721777?t=ogLjkLe8d7jyp_xzKzyIGA&s=19

Not even using a black sharpie lol

Oliver Alexander (@OAlexanderDK) on X

As you can see, this is the mighty Belarusian border checkpoint that scared the terrorists away and made them try to drive towards Ukraine

Twitter · Mar 26, 2024, 1:42 PM

[upper apex]

That’s a meme (pic is from 2022), but a funny one

[scarlet shell]

Hahahaah

But it's defenitely a weird flex of Lukashenko to speak up now against Putin. Can't wait for the latter to reply.

[upper apex]

Or just incompetence

[scarlet shell]

Can't say he's exactly a rocketscientist so that might be very well the case lol

[pallid silo]

He's balancing these statements with some good ole sabre rattling.

Belta are a state owned news agency.

https://belta.by/president/view/lukashenko-o-vozmozhnyh-provokatsijah-narushili-gosgranitsu-k-unichtozheniju-623714-2024/

[upper apex]

article with some interesting details / summary, it has a slight conspiratorial tone since the author doesn't completely dismiss a false flag (but does note that there's no evidence for it):

https://euromaidanpress.com/2024/03/26/crocus-city-hall-incompetence-or-deliberate-failure-of-russian-security-an-osint-analysis/

[steady yacht]

Well, given history, the likelihood is nonzero, but nothing so far that peeks above the noise floor sufficiently to entertain that line of thought.

[upper apex]

https://meduza.io/en/news/2024/03/26/russian-fsb-director-says-america-britain-and-ukraine-were-behind-moscow-concert-hall-terrorist-attack

[steady yacht]

They're going with that narrative, aren't they?
Wonder if they are trying to come up with justification for escalation?

[glacial citrus]

Did this pic ever get geolocated? Not sure if that's been done already.

[desert badge]

Display of Battered Men Was Russia’s Warning to the Public, Analysts Say https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/26/world/europe/russia-terror-attack-torture.html?unlocked_article_code=1.fk0.g9Wc.K731A1ZCS0W_&ugrp=c

[warm cedar]

Is that the pic supposedly of him scoping the Crocus City Hall before the attack?

[glacial citrus]

Yep. It looks like Crocus, but precise location hard to figure out. But the ad in the background for Piknik is the one that was used, for what it's worth.

[warm cedar]

I haven't got time for a few hours, but I think it could be as simple as the central hall, with his back to the glass entryway, the reflection being of the black wall with the screens.

[jagged forum]

Yeah that's the only vestibule with those lights. 55.8260495, 37.3908123 https://maps.app.goo.gl/Esg8WBM1BewaAdvD7

[glacial citrus]

Yes I was looking there. Wasn't sure it matched. Reflections make it tough.

[warm cedar]

Look at the reflections in the top left and the lights inside the hall

[jagged forum]

Everything about that vestibule matches: light spacing, the shape and sizing of the extruded structural elements, the placement of breaks in the glass, and the shape of the lights themselves.

[upper apex]

Not sure if it got mentioned before, but russian telegram channels also wrote about a taxi driver who remembered driving him away from the concert (same day as the supposed photo) and chatting with him (not sure how credible, impossible to verify, but the details mentioned made sense)

[glacial citrus]

Yeah it's that stupid vestibule. Daily Storm said that it was in some hall that's right next to the amphitheatre entrance. Dumb red herring had me looking at those areas by the lobby for half an hour.

[desert badge]

Bill them

[jagged forum]

Looking down to the other halls from street view both inside and outside the vestibules they have are totally different. Additionally, there almost certainly wouldn't be glass vestibules on the interior for both soundproofing and cost reasons.

[upper apex]

#1220789867437363290 message

[glacial citrus]

Good write-up from Mark here https://www.svoboda.org/a/zagadochnyy-abdulloh-kem-okazalsya-vozmozhnyy-organizator-ataki-na-krokus-/32878449.html

[cunning sundial]

Bloomberg reports people in Putins inner circle confirming no links to Ukraine involvement: https://archive.md/Ij1Wz (anonymous source ofc, so usual caveats apply)

[little prawn]

This is a bit speculative, but chatter out there is suggesting China pushed Belarus to make their own claim about how the terrorists planned to escape. No confirmation if there's anything supporting that claim yet, but Lukashenko did recently have talks with China pushing a "peace" agenda for Ukraine-Russia conflict. https://www.sentinelassam.com/more-news/international/china-belarus-express-extreme-interest-in-ukraine-peace-639688

[upper apex]

Doubtful, I think the most likely theory is that Luka was boasting about border Defense while visiting the border

[glacial citrus]

no, too low quality

[upper apex]

also false flag conspiracy, people will waste days trying to match random people from the crowd, which will lead no where, this kind of work makes sense if you have a video of a war crime with specific suspects, not a random crowd.

[normal pilot]

that side of hairline in these comparisons looks off, tbh this is peak non-credible

[glacial citrus]

also the conspiracy of "a few guys are all wearing blue sweaters in moscow in march" and "two guys are both wearing a watch on their left wrists" is especially 🥴

[waxen pivot]

ya, I saw more white shirts in that video than blue shirts

[upper apex]

you gotta watch for any guys wearing brown shirts! they are especially suspect

[warm cedar]

Are there even any other options for guys than white, blue, grey and green?

Sorry, facetious way of saying that blue is not exactly an uncommon shirt colour.

[glacial citrus]

exactly, we don't do much variety. i think 3/4 of my clothes are blue/grey lol

has there been much digging or profiles anywhere of the folks arrested who weren't among the 4 attackers? i found a couple VK profiles linked to them but not much more.

e.g.
https://t.me/moscowcourts/2778
https://t.me/moscowcourts/2772
https://t.me/moscowcourts/2769

[upper apex]

haven't seen anything so far.

Personal Opinion:
|| I think the FSB just grabbed the first people that had direct interaction with the attackers.
(like their landlord or the guy who sold the car)||

oh boi, seems like this conspiracy will do a round under pro UA folk

for anyone who stumbles into this looking for answers on this:

the problem is that people start with a theory and work backwards from that, looking for any "evidence" that may support it.

Edit: removed the attached picture since that person delete the tweet, instead NEXTA is now pushing it

[normal pilot]

wartranslated memes sometimes, "!!" is just a callback to Elon's dumb tweets

[upper apex]

He pushed false flag multiple times in the past few days. But my post wasn't directed against him, it's just that it will reach a broader audience now.

[timid marten]

After Luka saved Putin from Prigozhin rebellion, it added some cards to his deck

[normal pilot]

can't find the tweet, maybe he deleted it, but he replied to nexta's first tweet saying it's nonsense

[scarlet shell]

As we say in the Netherlands it's not like they were wearing "purple shirts with white polka dots" 🙄

[scarlet shell]

Fair. Lol.

[upper apex]

I've removed the picture of the tweet since he did seem to delete it, but now we have NEXTA pushing it again

[normal pilot]

they often post rumors, so they're not credible

[glacial citrus]

Just to put it to bed a bit:
I found one of the guys Nexta "identified' as a security service officer. He's just a P.E. teacher. And really buff. As PE teachers often are.
Another guy that was "identified" isn't even wearing the same clothes as they claim (his "blue sweater" is a jacket in Bryansk, and wearing different jeans). The entire crux of the ID is they have sorta similar eyes and are both wearing a watch.
I hate all of these grifters.

[livid sorrel]

I was just about to ask about how credible this post was and who Nexta is.

[desert badge]

My favorite meme account is really clowning on this

[glacial citrus]

Also: https://twitter.com/AricToler/status/1772750574263378360

Aric Toler (@AricToler) on X

Okay, fine, to actually debunk this nonsense.

If you watch the video where one of the suspects was arrested in the woods, you see the guy wearing the blue jacket without his face covered. He has a beard. The man in the crowd didn't grow it in 12 hours.

https://t.co/vdaImzNGIX

Twitter · Mar 26, 2024, 10:20 PM

[hearty owl]

Watching all of these amateur analyst accounts repeat the NEXTA stuff with some variation of "we're working hard to independently verify these claims and will release a statement soon" is insane lol. The information ecosystem that surrounds any event of note is really just top notch.

[upper apex]

The problem is that you can’t win. Once you go into the level of analyzing details in pictures, the conspiracy folk will endlessly debate you.

Just look at replies to Aric’s latest tweet

[dim gyro]

I hope you realize that this one won't die out this easily, few decades later there will still be a lot of people who will believe that FSB was involved in this massacre at least at some level. Ryazan' sugar is a good example.

[glacial citrus]

No joke. I mean, look at the hairline on the back of the head. Not even close.

[naive anchor]

"Dear conspiracy theorists, I’m sorry to disappoint you, but the “FSB man in the blue jacket” turned out to be an ordinary oil worker from VNIIST named Alexey Druzhkov, who has nothing to do with either the FSB or the man in the mask"
https://twitter.com/Dobrokhotov/status/1772761554343149706

[glacial citrus]

Deleted my messages here with (anonymized) ids. Probably shouldn't share those in a discord server, apologies.

[loud quiver]

"Lukashenko did recently have talks with Belarus"?

[little prawn]

Thaaanks 🙂 edited to say China

[harsh root]

Would be nice to see an interview with the security guard with the dog. Provided he's still alive.

[rancid plover]

I am seeing a news report from the italian newspaper Repubblica as well as a journalist called Daniele Angrisani naming iStories as a source on matters related to Crocus City Hall, but I cannot see anything like that in iStories' Telegram channel nor on their website.

Repubblica reports that "The car in which the perpetrators of the terrorist attack on Crocus left Moscow along the M-3 highway exceeded the speed limit. Records of fines for these violations were found by "Istories" on the Payment State Traffic Safety Inspectorate.rf service. According to the service's information, a white Renault with the license plate 'T 668 UM 69' violated the speed limit six times on the M-3 motorway at kilometers 45, 46, 49, 73, 81 and 108.
The car left the Crocus around 8.15pm local time. The first time it was recorded on CCTV was at 8.43pm and the last time it was recorded at 9.29pm."
https://www.repubblica.it/esteri/2024/03/27/diretta/guerra_ucraina_russia_news_oggi-422378132/?ref=RHLF-BG-P4-S1-T1

Angrisani reports this info related to the identity of the alleged organiser: https://x.com/putino/status/1771813318526685535?s=20

Daniele Angrisani (@putino) on X

L'organizzatore dell'attacco terroristico al Crocus City Hall potrebbe essere un cittadino della Federazione Russa e del Tagikistan di nome Abdullah Buriev. Era già nel radar dei servizi segreti turchi come capo del ramo afghano dell'ISIS-K. Lo riporta il sito russo iStories.

Twitter · Mar 24, 2024, 8:16 AM

[rancid plover]

Found this message on iStories, which appears to be the source. It seems indeed misreporting from Repubblica (automatic trasnlation from Russian):

The car in which the perpetrators of the Crocus City Hall terrorist attack left Moscow exceeded the speed limit six times. The cameras caught it

🔵 Records of fines for these violations were found by “Important Stories” on the Payment State Traffic Safety Inspectorate.rf service. According to information on the website, a white Renault with license plates “T 668 UM 69” violated the speed limit six times on the M-3 “Ukraine” highway on the evening of March 22 – at 45, 46, 49, 73, 81 and 108 kilometers.

❓ It is alleged that security forces stopped this car several kilometers from the borders with Ukraine and Belarus in the Surazhsky district of the Bryansk region at 376 kilometers of the same highway on the night of March 23.

❓ Today Alexander Lukashenko reported on the coordinated work of the special services of Russia and Belarus - these words cast doubt on Putin’s version that the terrorists initially went to the border with Ukraine.

“In Belarus, from the very first minutes after the incident, special security measures were taken; at the level of the special services, they acted according to a predetermined algorithm. This is also why the terrorists did not dare to go to Belarus, but moved towards Ukraine,”

• said Lukashenko.

According to him, Belarus has blocked its border so that terrorists cannot cross it.

[upper apex]

In a euro maiden article I shared before the author noted that in one of the published photos from a traffic camera, the attackers were driving at 140 km/h

Unsure where to put this, but I think public perception / propaganda should still fall under this thread: https://fxtwitter.com/AgonMaliqi/status/1772922191136371096?s=20

[sacred magnet]

Where can I access to the more detailed version of these threats?

https://x.com/torerhamming/status/1772757751325659529?s=46&t=BDIVXkJqzEFPgl-4s1jlJA

Tore Refslund Hamming (@ToreRHamming) on X

ISKP media outlet al-Azaim media issues threat against #Russia in 6 different languages that not only says something about its language capacity but also its target audience.. #MoscowAttack

Twitter · Mar 26, 2024, 10:49 PM

[little prawn]

Great summary article on the current understanding of the escape route for Croc terrorists. https://dossier.center/night-run/

Includes interactive mapping of each speed limit photo taken.

[glacial citrus]

Russian state TV interviewed a guy who was at Crocus (and called an FSB officer by Nexta 🙂 ). He talks about how he went to the concert with his daughter, works in construction.
https://tass.ru/obschestvo/20370691
(it's the guy Roman pointed to last night)
Thankfully he and his daughter were both unharmed. He says they took a side exit through some construction work to get out ("Из "Крокуса" вместе с ребенком они выбежали не из центрального входа, а "откуда-то сбоку, где шли строительные работы"). If anyone does a visual reconstruction of the exits/chokepoints, may be worth checking that out.

[cunning sundial]

#1220789867437363290 message

[sacred magnet]

So that was their channel first hand. I must say there are a lot of random info other than the announcements…

[dense crypt]

Coincidence that it is exactly that guy and not a random other person?

[naive anchor]

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1772978939020935433

NEXTA (@nexta_tv) on X

Our little investigation into the "men in blue" has provoked much discussion among the Kremlin propaganda media and even Western investigative journalists

Each of them tried to identify the "man in the chair" who was present in the "Crocus" hall at the time of the terrorist…

Twitter · Mar 27, 2024, 1:28 PM

[desert badge]

Nexta needs to stick with copying and pasting telegram posts

[dense crypt]

Well, apparently they got the Kremlin to respond to it. Makes Russia think again before they come up with the next bs story.

[cunning sundial]

or makes it easier for people to dismiss all criticism of the Kremlin messaging by stating "these idiots believe that everyone wearing a blue shirt is an FSB agent, so nothing they say is worth listening to"

[onyx gust]

This

[spring spindle]

It helps to show the idea that the Russian government is competent, which is precisely what the Russian government wants to portray, especially since showing incompetence is what can harm the government the most.

The real story shows that there was questionable incompetence (starting with the dismissal of international warnings and mocking them publicly), so anything that pushes away from that narrative and, beyond that, makes them look cunning is very welcome by them

[sacred magnet]

Competent…? The very rate of law enforcement arrival over such a big shootout suggests otherwise…

[drifting karma]

https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/1773062454030787012?s=46&t=2zt4kkQhjyPKBDmnvEZ0Lg

NEXTA (@nexta_tv) on X

‼️ Five oddities of the terrorist attack in Crocus City Hall

We continue the series of publications analyzing all the inconsistencies in the official version of the Russian authorities about the terrorist attack in Moscow.

The first oddity

The U.S. Embassy warned Russia on…

Twitter · Mar 27, 2024, 7:00 PM

[cunning sundial]

All of these „oddities“ can still be explained by the „Russian security forces are incompetent“ hypothesis

[spring spindle]

Indeed, but that's exactly what the propagandistic arm of the Kremlin wants to avoid talking, thus focusing on promoting stories and conspiracies that precisely counter this. Especially now that the story is too big to avoid talking about it

[spring spindle]

Hi, firstly I recommend reading the heading of the forum thread. Any indication of a false flag is bogus.

Also worth noting that Nexta is a horrible media with a long history of spreading mis/disinformation and profiteering from sensationalism and yellow "journalism". That "analysis" has been deconstructed very quickly by multiple independent sources and, as said, it can easily be explained as simply as incompetence within the Russian regime

[steady yacht]

Yeah, Hanlon's razor applies, but one should not entirely dismiss the corollary to Hanlon's razor.

[waxen pivot]

Yes please, no more Nexta false flag stuff

[spring spindle]

Btw, can we please reduce the time from slowmode? I think that now that the situation is far more calm, the 30s delay can be a bit of an overkill

[waxen pivot]

Oh yeah, good call, thanks

done!

[spring spindle]

Gracias!

[drifting karma]

Interesting in a normal country instant out heads of Police or Fsb but seems not jn this case.

[drifting karma]

Thx did nt knew will unfollow that Nexta. Single liked part they made the russian nervous enough to reply them.

[spring spindle]

I don't think the Kremlin was nervous to reply to that but actually glad, since it shifts the narrative away from their incompetence

[vale tendon]

Russia is different, compared to democracies the leadership is both much more autocratic and more paranoid about even smallest signs of weakness

[river badge]

https://twitter.com/Peter__Leonard/status/1773074095569084892

Peter Leonard (@Peter__Leonard) on X

Steven Seagal visits injured Crocus City victims in hospital, as if they haven't suffered enough

Twitter · Mar 27, 2024, 7:46 PM

[old spade]

I've seen a Portuguese "journalist" say that John Kirby had said that the US warnings "had nothing to do" with this attack. I've only seen this transcript of a phone call, which implies it was related to this. Any other sources or comments from the USA about if their warnings were specifically about this? https://www.npr.org/2024/03/25/1240780383/bidens-national-security-adviser-says-us-had-duty-to-warn-russia-of-moscow-attac

[cunning sundial]

There‘s a NYT article suggesting that specific details about the attack were known but not shared with Russia: „The United States has been tracking ISIS-K activities very closely in recent months, senior officials said. In the course of the monitoring, which has involved electronic intercepts, human informants and other means, American operatives picked up fairly specific information about plotting in Moscow, officials said. [...] The adversarial relationship between Washington and Moscow prevented U.S. officials from sharing any information about the plot this month beyond what was necessary, out of fear Russian authorities might learn their intelligence sources or methods.“ https://archive.md/3cnlu

[onyx gust]

I had wondered what information they felt able to share and what they didn't for this reason

[warm cedar]

It is the question whether it would have mattered if the US had exposed every source of information.

I suspect the Russians would probably still have ignored it, accused the US of fabricating everything - and then afterwards they would have had all that information about the US sources.

[sacred magnet]

Your suspicion aligns with their political considerations. Russian authorities have good reasons to allow the atrocities to happen to stir up public wages, as they are doing right now. It’s not like they have a good track record caring about the well being of their own people anyways.

Just like how Americans to try to stop the terrorism. They know that letting hundreds of civilians died wouldn’t devastate the regime. So despite the belligerence, it is logical for American IC counterpart to share.

[teal ridge]

That’s ridiculous and also makes no sense. Domestically migration is Kreml’s single most vulnerable and unpopular policy. Atrocities committed by Tajik nationals is probably the last thing they want

[sacred magnet]

Like I said, they are not in control of every details. They were warned of the risks, and they chose, either out of political implication or some skimming, to neglect it. That doesn’t mean they know every details of the to be perpetrators. Their immediate intention for doubling down on western bashing however did prove their tendency in utilising the atrocity.

[waxen pivot]

@teal ridge and @sacred magnet, this sort of speculation is 100% outside the purpose of this thread and of the server, so please end it here or take it to DMs

[sacred magnet]

Ok

[glacial citrus]

The new angle emerges: money/crypto from Ukraine!
https://t.me/opersvodki/20117

[river idol]

Russia's Commissioner/Ombuds(wo)man for Human Rights wants praise for their treatment of the suspects.

https://t.me/ombudsmanrf/4107

"At least we didn't lynch them."

[little prawn]

I doubt we will be getting any addresses to verify.

[upper apex]

I just realized that this was claimed by the official investigative committee, oh boy, they really aren’t letting this go

[river idol]

https://t.me/sledcom_press/12386

Investigative Committee's post.

[upper apex]

Can’t believe Ukraine’s Nationalists could be so stupid to just Venmo the terrorists using their personal accounts /s

[dense crypt]

Same with using crypto. Payments can easily be traced, it will be on the blockchain forever.

[cunning sundial]

There are ways to conduct anonymous payments using mixers, I wonder if the claim would be that these Ukrainian nationalists used something like that or just used the wallets connected to their identities without further anonymising measures

[hearty owl]

I'm sorry but the fact that they bokeh'd Seagal to make him the focal point of the photo is intensely funny to me lmao.

[upper apex]

The same wallets had NFTs depicting Nazi Symbols and Ukrainian flags /s

Mediazone has made a timeline of the car chase (with known information) https://fxtwitter.com/kromark/status/1773275555720204385

[half ivy]

Do you have any potential addresses[I previously did some tracing work for Alex ospovich(of the WSJ)]. So its could be quite straightforward to see whether their claims have any validity

[upper apex]

I think for exactly that reason they won’t be releasing any of their “evidence” for now

[half ivy]

Yeah it is most likely complete BS but you never know and its always good to verify claims irrespective how unlikely they may seem

[steady yacht]

*sighs* https://twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1773770487937618408 https://ria.ru/20240329/krokus-1936727649.html

Faytuks News Δ (@Faytuks) on X

Russia's investigative committee claims that the Moscow terrorists were heading towards Kyiv to "claim their reward" - RIA

Twitter · Mar 29, 2024, 5:53 PM

[upper apex]

I thought they got handed Ukrainian (?) crypto currency, now they also wanted to get Gold medals?

[timid marten]

It’s also interesting that Russia ignores the fact that to cross the border with Ukraine they’d have to pass through Russian block posts as well.

[muted rock]

think it's less that they're ignoring it, and more hoping that you'll ignore it

[dim gyro]

You're not the target audience for this BS, people. And the crowd who will believe this will believe anything anyway, so it doesn't matter if it sounds like BS.

[vale tendon]

Do they think Ukrainian bitcoins have Bank of Ukraine printed on them or something

[upper apex]

Everyone knows bitcoins come in regional mintages

[kindred bobcat]

OpenMinds survey: half of Russians surveyed believed the Kremlin's version that Ukraine was responsible for the terrorist attack at Crocus City Hall

The British newspaper Financial Times has published the results of an online survey conducted by the English-Ukrainian sociological project OpenMinds about the terrorist attack in the Crocus City Hall concert hall near Moscow. The newspaper said that the majority of Russians surveyed believed in the Kremlin's version that Ukraine was involved in the terrorist attack. The results of the survey have not yet been published on the project's website. (translated via deepl .com)

https://meduza.io/news/2024/03/31/issledovanie-openminds-polovina-oproshennyh-rossiyan-poverila-v-versiyu-kremlya-chto-ukraina-neset-otvetstvennost-za-terakt-v-krokuse

to prove ninj4's point about who is target audience

[teal zenith]

Two years of Bucha liberation today.

[loud quiver]

If it is like MH17 they spreading BS to see what sticks. BS generates noise

[coral flare]

On several Russian opposition YouTube channels, all participants express the view that the FSB staged the Crocus CH attack, as it follows a well known pattern under Putin, and because "Russia has become an FSB state" with about 1 million current agents. More research needed.

[tawny river]

to any major tragedy there will always be an "it was an inside job" contingent.

we've decided against dipping our toes into that murkier end of the pool (see channel title).

ultimately, a specific group claimed responsibility. research into establishing ties to any state actors is welcome in other servers; ours takes a stance against that.

regarding at least one FSB accusation:

#1220789867437363290 message

#1220789867437363290 message

[heady crater]

https://vxtwitter.com/Hromadske/status/1774492605239394695

[upper apex]

https://www.reuters.com/world/iran-alerted-russia-security-threat-before-moscow-attack-sources-say-2024-04-01/

[upper apex]

“Summary
Iran warned Russia of possible terrorist attack
Information provided lacked specific details
Tehran gained information from suspects linked to Kerman attack
US intelligence also warned Russia of likely attack
Says Afghan-based ISIS-K behind both Russia and Iran attacks”

So suspects involved in the ISIS-K Kerman attack talked about a big attack in Russia, and Iran warned Russia about it days before the attack happened

[rancid plover]

Is it too far-fetched to wonder if RU might have "let it happen"? I know, what is sufficiently explained by stupidity shouldn't be attributed to evil machinations , and yet it seems so weird and somehow "convenient". Surely Putin is blatantly turning the narrative to his use.

[spring spindle]

In what way is it "convenient" to have a terrorist attack in your vicinity that very much leaves your state exposed as incompetent?

[dim gyro]

Especially knowing that forces like FSB have a lot of power nowadays, intentionally showing that they just missed such a blatant attack is nonsense. I mean, at first I was at least considering if they was involved to set it up, but looking at this absolute shameful fail that the whole world saw and no "profit" in any sense for Putin's government? Nuh-uh. Sorry, I hope it's not FF-talk.

[rancid plover]

that's why i put "somehow"... not convenient at all, but is surely fitting - or being fitted - into the broader narrative of Ukraine (and the West) being the absolute incarnation of evil, capable of orchestrating terrorist attacks on civilians and thus to be wiped out ASAP.

I don't know, I don't believe the "inside job"-stuff, and never did, but seeing that even Iran warned them and how they're spinning it, trying so hard to pin it on UA, the suspect of something fishy does arise.

And yet, it doesn't really make sense, I agree.

But how incompetent can they be?

[steady yacht]

But how incompetent can they be?
cf. Corollary to Hanlon's Razor:
"Sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from malice [or evil] ".

[waxen pivot]

Ha! I love that

[steady yacht]

I know this might be bordering on commentary, but you wouldn't believe how often I've experienced how Hanlons Razor ("Never attribute to malice [or evil] that which can be adequately explained by stupidity") and the above corrolary have proven true...

[rancid plover]

It's a very good one. Also, here Sagan's law shall apply:

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"

[steady yacht]

Indeed. But when you almost can hear Yakety Sax playing to the redux of Russian Federation activities re: the Crocus attack, you do need to consider...

[warm cedar]

Did I miss this? One of the people arrested later in connection with the attack, Askhab Uspanov, has reportedly died in custody.

https://kyivindependent.com/media-chechen-man-arrested-by-russian-authorities-after-moscow-terrorist-attack-allegedly-dies-in-custody/

[warm cedar]

Warning: if you go to the IADAT Telegram channel where this story originates, there are videos of a body post post mortem, so to say. Everything is clean and sewn up, but still.
There are also marks they claim come from beatings - I am not a pathologist, so it would be unwise of me to comment.

[loud quiver]

sounds like NSFW, sounds like I wouldn't show it to my 6 y.o.

[warm cedar]

That's why I added a warning. You would have to click through twice to get there from my link, but curious people have been known to frequent this server.

[ocean lotus]

Hmmm ever heard of the Gleiwitz incident? It was part of a whole series of operations to justify invasion of Poland. The Nazis staged attacks by "Polish soldiers" on German villages, etc., but they were actually SS officers dressed in Polish uniforms. There is even evidence that concentration camp prisoners were dressed in Polish uniforms and ordered to attack villages. According to your argument, the only thing the Nazis would have accomplished would be to be revealed as "incompetent." But clearly there was a wholly different logic at work.
Now, I'm not claiming anything about this attack. But what I am saying is that, if you actually study dynamics in quasi-totalitarian regimes, the in/competence question is largely overshadowed by the logic of the state of exception.
And it's not "nonsense" that the FSB might appear as all-powerful on the one hand, while missing an attack on the other. I mean, do you know how many people were tried in the Soviet Union for "sabotage" and "acting against the state"? Their cases often connected real events, like people dying from collectivization-caused hunger, to made-up plots: all of which would mean that these people supposedly successfully evaded the all-powerful CheKa/KGB to perpetrate their "evil deeds"?

[spring spindle]

I think that's a very different event that holds no relation to this, since that in the first case was a false flag event fabricated to justify an invasion. That has nothing to do with what happened in Crocus, as all evidence points towards an Islamist attack and it would even point against any suggestion of intentional action by the Russian government, including willingness to let the event happen.

If any solid evidence of that appears, then that changes things, but for now that's just speculation

[warm cedar]

Remember that Russia tried to fabricate a casus belli for the full scale invasion and it was almost immediately debunked (by Bellingcat IIRC).

I think we should put this to rest until there is some evidence.

[loud quiver]

I think your comment is apt and surely something to look into. However speculating is easy, coming with proof much more difficult. But more useful. If you write out a bunch of scenario's I am positive you can earn money with such in media or blog posts. With a probability matrix it could even be somewhat useful. But it isn't allowed here, and I understand why. Imagine it would be allowed. It would be easy to make sockpuppets and push an agenda, like Qanon for example.

[sharp rock]

More than two weeks before terrorists staged a bloody attack in the suburbs of Moscow, the U.S. government told Russian officials that Crocus City Hall, a popular concert venue, was a potential target, according to U.S. officials familiar with the matter.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/04/02/us-warning-russia-isis-crocus/

[modest oriole]

It seems likely that these four blurred people were involved in the Crocus attack. Have the people arrested in Russia been verified as these four people? Do we know that Russia didn't just find four Asian-looking guys, cut an ear off, and beat them up to show that they were "serious"? Confessions after torture are unreliable.

[glacial citrus]

Yes the four guys who were detained shortly after the attack were all involved in the Crocus attack. 100%
What they say afterwards in their confessions, that information should be taken with a critical ear/eye. But they did the attack.

[loud quiver]

all the BS that they were not has been thoroughly debunked

[half ivy]

The leap in logic here is pretty impressive[ Taken from: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/04/05/ukraine-russia-war-live-drone-attack-airfield/]
Of course unverifiable

[loud quiver]

Yeah, BS. Took them 2 weeks to plant that 'evidence' and announce they found it

perhaps it is better to now (edit: I meant 'not') share such as many people just read headlines and take it for granted even though it says 'claims Kremlin'

[sharp rock]

I think this is more detailed than previous claims by Russian state media about them heading to Russia and being paid by Ukraine, but I could have missed some
https://vxtwitter.com/jacksonhinklle/status/1777119904962850852

[dim gyro]

It's funny how they keep telling that UA militaries made a safe corridor for them on RU-UA border. But what about RU border control?

[loud quiver]

what RU border control doing?

[river idol]

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/04/09/russia-says-investigating-senior-us-nato-officials-for-financing-terrorism-a84787

[loud quiver]

'Russia’s top investigative body announced Tuesday that it has launched a criminal probe into senior officials in the United States and NATO member countries who are suspected of “financing terrorism.”' wait, did we start buying Russian gas again? 🥱

really double feeling with news like this, if it should be spread in the name of news gathering, or if it is helping Russia spreading propaganda BS