Israel-Palestine 2023 War News

[hybrid lintel]

If this is indeed true, this puts the „gratitude letters“ and other positive comments by hostages even more into context. „Be nice to us, or else look what we are capable of doing“

[pulsar falcon]

would it make sense to split a separate channel into specific hostage discussions?

[pulsar falcon]

also they may have been imprisoned together with others that are still captive - "be nice to us in the media or we'll hurt the people you were with/your family members"

[old rover]

Not a lot of open source rersearch to be done about the hostages, is there?

[true stream]

Something potentially on the horizon is western countries reviewing aid to UNRWA. Will try to dig into it once home again.

[hybrid lintel]

Are there others besides Germany? (https://jewishinsider.com/2023/11/unrwa-gaza-germany-funding-freeze-aid-palestinian-students/)

[true stream]

Sweden suspended aid: https://www.government.se/press-releases/2023/10/swedens-aid-to-palestine-suspended/

[glacial leaf]

Apologies if this is too basic, but my understanding is that the Red Crescent is run by Egypt while the Red Cross is run by Switzerland.

[true stream]

No, Red Cross is located in Switzerland, not Sweden.

[glacial leaf]

oops that's what I meant to type!

[stark stream]

Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be that simple: The red cross is spilt into societies. So the P.R.C.S is the Palestinian red cross society [founded by Fathi Arafat](According to wikipedia, oddly their own website doesn't substantiate that fact] Websites: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Red_Crescent_Society, https://www.palestinercs.org/en/Article/10997/overview If indeed it was founded by the Arafat family it would be explain the trust issues. Each society is responsible for their own people[for lack of a better phraseology], https://www.redcross.org.uk/about-us/how-we-are-run/the-international-movement#:~:text=Most countries around the world,support those in crisis worldwide.] I would share the constitution they have but the website they link to doesn't go anywhere:https://www.ifrc.org/ifrc/document/constitution-2017. At a higher level the organisation is spilt into a federation with MENA under the control of IFRC https://www.ifrc.org/who-we-are/people-and-structures/ifrc-governance. However the international red cross as a larger institution is present in Tel Aviv, whether its purely an administration building I don't know.

[velvet bison]

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-gaza-displacement-south-operation-biden-788b05c51b5582b39aeb2466b7825525

[real lodge]

💯 Correct, the only purpose a hostage specific channel could serve is to gather the current available details which are only now slowly coming out. Which I think this channel serves better for context wise for now as it is directly tied to the declared war aims of the conflict parties and international response to the events of 10/7 and beyond. Maybe further down the road though. 🤷‍♂️

[nocturne void]

I don't see it in the ynet video
but the ynet video is clearly cut multiple times and only contains a small part of the statement I shared

[half panther]

That’s why I was trying to find other sources. In all other reports her statement is only partly transcribed and sometimes not even as a direct quote but rather an interpretation of what she actually said.
But actually the statement in the tweet you shared is much shorter the statement in the video.

[half panther]

The ICRC (International Committee of the Red Cross) is the organization mandated (by parties to the Geneva Convention) to protect people affected by conflict and armed violence. They are the ones you hear about in cases such as this.

https://www.icrc.org/en

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Committee_of_the_Red_Cross

ICRC, IFRC and the local societies are independent but are all part of the International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Red_Cross_and_Red_Crescent_Movement

Local societies, including Magen David Adom (Red Star of David) in Israel don’t have the same mandate as ICRC and are mainly emergency aid providers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magen_David_Adom

[old rover]

Reminder that this is the channel for breaking news. #1160132507472244839 message

[stark stream]

||https://twitter.com/Osint613/status/1729598641587778021|| video released showing more releases of hostages. Location can probably be Geolocated. Spoilered as I found the video quite unnerving and overall just very strange. I don't which hostages these are however[i.e which batch]

[fervent fable]

https://vxtwitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1729621217089323431?s=20

Tone shift? Do you think this tweet portends a ceasefire?

[real lodge]

The names of this round of hostages that were released are: Ditza Haiman, 84, from Nir Oz; Tamar Metzger, 78, from Nir Oz; Ofelia Roitman, 77, from Nir Oz; Meirav Tal, 53, from Rishon Letzion, abducted from Nir Oz; Gabriela and Maya Leimberg, 59 and 17, from Jerusalem, abducted from Nir Yitzhak; Clara Marman, 63, from Nir Yizhak, kidnapped from Nir Oz; Ada Sagi, 75, from Nir Oz; Rimon Kirsht Buchshtab, 36, from Nirim; and Noralin Babadilla Agojo, 60, from Yehud, abducted from Nirim.

Some have family members still held by Hamas. The names of the two Thai Nationals have not be released yet, but that exchange is under a separate agreement. The youngest hostage, Kfir Bibas, who was only 9 months old when he was taken by Hamas still remains captive, despite the agreement prioritizing young children and mothers. I believe this has to do partialy with Hamas no longer having claimed they have him but having handed the child over to the PLFP

||https://twitter.com/AvichayAdraee/status/1729196292759310667?|| CW ⚠️ images of hostage being taken, faces blurred, does include blood.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-28/ty-article/ten-women-these-are-the-hostages-freed-from-hamas-captivity-on-tuesday/0000018c-1621-d5be-af9f-3eb92d2c0000

[stark stream]

I think in the video you can see at the end the PLFP/another group is there based on the bandanas, last 20 seconds or so

[real lodge]

Those are likely PIJ (Palestinian Islamic Jihad) Al-Quds Brigade terrorists at 1:41 and later. The bandana and the rest of the kit match public records of what they wear (see attached). It's the second largest militant group in Gaza and other reporting has indicated they have a lot of hostages as well. https://www.timesofisrael.com/islamic-jihad-shows-off-tunnels-rocket-workshop-on-iran-tv/

[real lodge]

by the latest it looks like 160 people, including mothers and and a 9 (now 10) month old infant and several children are still held hostage by Hamas and PLFP, PIJ. 480 Palestinians in detention for release and 3200 aid trucks. https://www.npr.org/2023/11/28/1215353901/hostages-hamas-israel-gaza-palestinian-prisoners So that's 16 days of ceasefire Hamas can choose to act on after today. So far only one American has been released. So that means 8 Americans are still held hostage. It looks like CIA Director William Burns arrived in Doha so pressure is increasing from the US Government leadership on hostage releases. This looks like it's going down to the wire again on day 6 of the ceasefire. It looks like the latest list of releases just went to the Israeli cabinet and the families have been notified. https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israel-receives-list-of-hostages-that-hamas-is-due-to-release-later-today/

[zenith violet]

Is there a chance this is a hoax?

[valid sapphire]

What exactly?

[glacial leaf]

https://thehill.com/policy/technology/4329722-elon-musk-does-damage-control-with-trip-to-israel/

[thick shadow]

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-29/ty-article/85-year-old-freed-israeli-hostage-confronted-hamas-chief-sinwar-in-gaza-tunnel/0000018c-1ad5-d4e4-a1df-3edd611c0000
‘I Asked Him How He Isn't Ashamed': 85-year-old Israeli Hostage Confronted Hamas Chief Sinwar in Gaza Tunnel
The freed Israeli hostage, Yocheved Lifshitz, a peace activist from Kibbutz Nir Oz, says she 'went through hell' during her two weeks in Hamas captivity in the Gaza Strip

[real lodge]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog-november-29-2023/#liveblog-entry-3166550 2 Russian-Israeli Hostages are now in Egypt. Still no word on 10 other hostages release. Seems like the all-for-all pressure is increasing from Hamas. But looks like they have at least agreed to continue released for 4 more days which would mean 40 more hostages released on top on the 10 + 2 today. No indication any Americans have been released.

[fervent fable]

Was told by someone who watches Israeli news that it wasn't Sinwar she spoke to.

[valid sapphire]

The hostages where taken by different groups and what we know the terror act was planned for about two years, so there was enough time.
Hamas and this cells don't give a censored about the suffering civilians.
You can't expect people that went through trauma acting like in movies
From smiling to freezing, it's a spectrum. That's Trauma, it has no rules.
The Israelian Irish girl was the only hostage that I recall ATM falsely declared by her Dad, and we are all happy she's alive, aren't we. Again, different groups, lack of communication, under attack. Edit: the post that this was an answer to was deleted

[grand fiber]

Everyone, please keep in mind that discussion goes into #israel-palestine to keep this channel free for breaking news and images/videos. Remember to check the pinned posts for a list of which channel is intended for which purpose.

[real lodge]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/released-thai-hostage-says-israelis-held-with-him-were-beaten-with-electric-cables/ more abuse of hostages.

[velvet bison]

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-30/ty-article-live/12-israelis-four-thai-nationals-released-from-hamas-captivity-in-gaza/0000018c-1e28-db78-adcc-be7c50fb0007?liveBlogItemId=1059691381&htm_source=site&htm_medium=button&htm_campaign=live_blog_item#1059691381

Hamas announced that Israel has refused to accept seven additional hostages, women and children, and three bodies of its citizens – also women and children – in exchange for extending the ceasefire for another day, starting from Thursday morning.

According to the statement, the three bodies belong to hostages who were killed in IDF bombings in the Strip. The organization further claimed that this number represents all the hostages in its possession, among the women and children held in Gaza.

According to the understandings between the terrorist organization and Israel, the ceasefire is supposed to end at 7:00 in the morning unless an extension is agreed upon. Overnight on Wednesday, the war cabinet convened to discuss the matter, but it has not been reported yet whether any agreements were reached.

Earlier, the military wing of Hamas, the Al-Qassam Brigades, stated that its forces are maintaining readiness in case the ceasefire is not extended beyond 7:00.

[velvet bison]

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/talks-intensify-extend-israel-hamas-truce-after-more-hostages-prisoners-freed-2023-11-30/

[dark spindle]

https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/article-775777
This report cites a tweet by Israeli Channel 13 journalist Almog Boker. I have not yet seen any corroboration of this claim or the claim posted elsewhere. The tweets are as follows:

English: https://vxtwitter.com/bokeralmog/status/1729934849161494658
Hebrew: https://vxtwitter.com/bokeralmog/status/1729929618742755477

This claim is currently being spread widely on pro-Israel socials. See: https://www.instagram.com/p/C0Pb2VMLLdA/

israelwarroom

75% of Palestinians support the October 7 massacre by Hamas.
How many of them participated in it?
Shocking new information shared by Israeli journalist Almog Boker proves at least some Gazan “civilians” — and @unrwa employees — were complicit in war crimes.

Likes

14347

Instagram

Can anyone corroborate this claim? It is a very serious accusation

[fervent fable]

Confirmed that she did not speak to Sinwar: https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/s137bn4h6

[broken gorge]

https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public Opinion Poll - Gaza War 2023 - Tables of Results.pdf link to poll done by AWRAD

https://www.awrad.org/files/server/polls/polls2023/Public Opinion Poll - Gaza War 2023.pdf summary of poll in 6 pages by AWRAD

https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/palestinians/2023-11-22/ty-article/.premium/three-quarters-of-palestinians-support-hamas-attack-on-october-7-says-new-poll-why/0000018b-f841-d473-affb-f9e9eeef0000 Haaretz' take on the issue

anecdotally, I've only been seeing op-eds written in favour of October 7th by Gazans in the Al Jazeera opinion column

[forest holly]

The claim was about the UNRWA teacher. Not surprising since most are Palestinian.

[mellow sky]

I'd say the tweet is providing a misleading interpretation of the statistics, if you look at the full poll results in the link shared earlier. Note that earlier polls (pre October 7) show high support amongst Palestinians for a two state solution and low support for Hamas:https://www.foreignaffairs.com/israel/what-palestinians-really-think-hamas. All of which is to say you can selectively use poll stats to corroborate the particular view point you are putting forward.

On the UNRWA claim. It is indeed a serious one. There is a long history of making claims against UNRWA. UNRWA shares its list of staff with the Israeli authorities on a yearly basis so arguably any immediate red flags against an individual would be raised via that process. https://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/features/unrwa-beyond-myths

On this specific allegation - I too would be keen to see more details. Did the captor state he was an UNRWA teacher to the hostage, or how did the hostage ascertain this information?

[forest holly]

It wouldn't surprise me if Oct 7 is precisely what changed their support of 2-state. Or rather, the response to it. As for hostages, i would give more credence to the testimony of non-nationals, particularly when they return home. So, the Thai person.

[dark spindle]

I suppose we should just wait until another outlet is able to corroborate the claims of a hostage being kept in the home under the watch of a UNRWA teacher. As of now the only source I have been able to find are those two tweets by the same journalist and the JPost article citing them

[pulsar falcon]

https://vxtwitter.com/michaelh992/status/1730222608552006069?s=20

[fervent fable]

Do we have a source beyond Horowitz' tweet? Something directly from Qassam leadership perhaps?

[velvet bison]

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-11-30-2023-ea1a8fad4e2f4a394e5427a7c5815d38

[thick shadow]

The Hamas statement is being quoted widely by the media, e.g. here: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/shooting-attack-jerusalem-wounds-least-6-ambulance-service-2023-11-30/

[fervent fable]

Thanks

[fervent fable]

The quote in that article does not indicate to me that they claimed ownership over the attack, only praised and justified it.

[woeful jewel]

That'd help explain why it isn't considered by Israel to be a ceasefire violation

[thick shadow]

Reuters did not directly quote the whole statement but wrote this instead: “Hamas […] claimed responsibility for the Jerusalem attack”, quite clear imo.
Did you have a look at the al-qassam telegram channel? It’s geoblocked for me, read the statement on some unofficial account earlier.

[forest holly]

Interesting. Will try from some different countries

lol, Turkey is a win. Edit: Nope. Spoke too soon.

[thick shadow]

yeah, i also tried a turkey vpn.

[real lodge]

Lifshitz's husband, Oded Lifshitz (83 m), is still held hostage https://www.timesofisrael.com/taken-captive-oded-yocheved-lifshitz-drive-gazans-to-hospitals/ have to catch up posting the latest numbers on my previous posts, other sources are saying Hamas is having a hard time finding hostages https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/can-hamas-locate-remaining-hostages-mayhem-gaza-war-2023-11-29/ and that they are demanding a higher price for them. Also interesting what I don't believe has been posted is the impact on the bedouin community who were taken violently taken hostage by Hamas. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67573069

[clear olive]

Hv u tried this https://t.me/PalestineResist

[forest holly]

That works

[thick shadow]

found the text on twitter earlier and stopped looking. channel works for me and they have the statement: https://t.me/PalestineResist/21239

[velvet bison]

https://vxtwitter.com/JacobMagid/status/1730297970224972212?

[real lodge]

I can't find an english version of the response data Table of Results. Looks like AWRAD only posted more detailed results in Arabic. Have you found one that I might be missing?

[valid sapphire]

ICRC statement about the al nasr hospital
||https://twitter.com/ICRC/status/1730247542149971971?t=KODccZ17guw5sS3sRGvKGw&s=19||

[half panther]

https://vxtwitter.com/phrisrael/status/1730182115013394553

UN SG calls for an investigation into SGBV during Oct 7.

[half panther]

#gender-based-violence-misogyny message

[warped river]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html

[umbral pilot]

Anybody got a gift link?

[warped river]

This should work: https://web.archive.org/web/20231201013831/https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html

[bitter pulsar]

Can we get our hands on this "Jericho Wall" document?

[valid sapphire]

Legally, pls 😎

[bitter pulsar]

Good point. I should have added that caveat.

I wouldn't be surprised if it gets leaked.

[bitter pulsar]

On that note, it would probably be prudent to not post a link to it here directly, but to just give a heads-up that it is floating around out there. Those of us who are interested can find it on our own.

[velvet bison]

https://vxtwitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1730436263801438377

This is a reporter from axios

[real lodge]

https://bsky.app/profile/jongambrell.bsky.social/post/3kfhj7arksg22

[hoary wasp]

BBC reports airstrikes in N Gaza
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67584895?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=65696e0687855b2dac7d2c2a%26Air strikes reported in southern Gaza%262023-12-01T05%3A29%3A39.308Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:6f8a4855-7201-448d-94c7-b3ceef0f247b&pinned_post_asset_id=65696e0687855b2dac7d2c2a&pinned_post_type=share

[glacial leaf]

Yes, Tareq Azzoum on Al Jazeera is reporting that the Gaza ceasefire has ended.

[hoary wasp]

definitely rusty on the current streams, any up atm? can't see any

[velvet bison]

None are up from what I can tell

[hoary wasp]

IDF claims that Hamas was responsible for the ceasefire violations and that it is responding in kind, though no evidence has been provided https://vxtwitter.com/IDF/status/1730455649815822608?s=20

[velvet bison]

Tried for like 30 minutes earlier to find anything but probably better to discuss in #1167596866268045412 since this channel is for breaking news

[glacial leaf]

on Al Jazeera English. There's one of the hospital in Khan Yunis and one of buildings with smoke from strikes.

[hoary wasp]

IDF now confirming they are carrying out airstrikes in North Gaza
https://vxtwitter.com/idfonline/status/1730459744018498018?s=20

[hoary wasp]

sirens were heard on the border cam (presumably near Sderot), appears to be confirmed with Hamas launches resuming
https://vxtwitter.com/manniefabian/status/1730466518238961885?s=20

[pulsar sinew]

Fighting is back full on

[velvet bison]

https://vxtwitter.com/rdooan/status/1730461675290001597

Israeli planes are now bombing a house in Rafah, south of the Gaza Strip, a few hundred meters from the border with Egypt

[glacial leaf]

6 people killed in southern Gaza due to Israeli airstrikes- one was a journalist. (via Al Jazeera English)

[nocturne void]

https://t.me/tzevaadomm/17465
rocket fire into Israel early this morning
from what I've seen the idf only started bombing again at 7:00
also ive understood that the ceasefire was supposed to end this morning at 7 anyways but I'm not sure

[hybrid lintel]

This statement is doing rounds on X, are there any sources other than the Gaza Report tweet? https://vxtwitter.com/gaza_report/status/1730241713472414075

[broken gorge]

https://www.idf.il/ar/جيش-الدفاع-الإسرائيلي/جيش-الدفاع-الإسرائيلي/swordsofiron-181123-118/

The IDF has published a really fascinating tool where it is an interactive map of Gaza Strip divided into hundreds of zones that will notify where operations are happening.

[pulsar sinew]

I've seen it floating around the past few days, I think it originated from their state media

[glacial leaf]

Israel began bombing by 6:30 AM local time.

[fervent fable]

https://vxtwitter.com/jonathan_shamir/status/1730525453830516821
Israel Hayom reports more expulsionist/genocidal ideation from the far-right members of Israel's war cabinet.

[real lodge]

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/israel-plans-to-kill-hamas-leaders-around-the-world-after-war-da88e6b9?mod=wknd_pos1 I’m surprised this has taken this long to be reported on.

[violet hollow]

I'm watching the live camera from Souther Gaza, in Rafah. And i just saw something incredible.
Right after there were a few airstrikes from Israel there, there was some rockets launched from Rafah. But the live camera recording this registered the massive cheering from the people there while the rockets from gaza were being launched.
I have never hear something like this, how often this happens?
You can see it in this video almost exactly around the time 5:00:24 (from the video time stamp of local time [Where it says Israel/Gaza Time:] top left)
https://www.youtube.com/live/6duXCb0YAqk?si=dUcMH2hOoxHwujar

[forest holly]

Public support for Hamas? All the time. Rafah being the source is what's interesting.

[valid sapphire]

Can you link the camera pls

[violet hollow]

updated my comment with the source

[real lodge]

https://mobile.mako.co.il/news-israel/2023_q4/Article-1cf31e55c052c81026.htm?

[real lodge]

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/israel-hamas-war-gaza-strip-2023-12-01/card/israeli-military-brings-body-of-hostage-ofir-tzarfati-back-from-gaza-vicMib95kc7kM00otOfs another hostage killed. Family notified Wednesday, he's being repatriated for burial today.

In more positive things. For Alma Or and her family (13f) https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/hyz1zywha#autoplay

[rugged urchin]

Source?

[glacial leaf]

Check the #1167596866268045412 and #1160893738973929493 where we began monitoring. Timestamps are included. In addition, news sources reporting live noted the times, including Al Jazeera.

[glacial leaf]

In other words, there was a massive airstrike conducted by Israel followed by a series of rockets fired in response from Gaza. Yes, cheering on both sides have occurred in the past (2014) with the infamous photo of Israelis lounging on couches and chairs cheering the bombing of Gaza and even in the current bombardment of Gaza with Israeli soldiers recording with their personal cell phones from within a tank filming the explosion of buildings inside Gaza - the clips of which caught the beginning of cheering of the soldiers within the tank. Here is a screenshot of the airstrike which prompted the rocket response:

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/deerhoof/status/1730685553350189089

[pulsar sinew]

more info on this? what's his work? I only found a motion designer from Palestine with the same name

[grand fiber]

@pulsar sinew @proper mantle, please don't link people's private social media profiles, thanks.

[glacial leaf]

I don't know. Ali Winston retweeted which is how I came to know about it.

[scenic tapir]

Does anyone have a good map of what they’ve already taken control of and what they haven’t?

[fervent fable]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/01/the-gospel-how-israel-uses-ai-to-select-bombing-targets

[forest holly]

Member of Gazan bureau of journalists. The trick is to convert names to Arabic first.

[fervent fable]

This Guardian report and the +972 Magazine report indicate that Israel has been relying on AI to build a list of assassination targets and has knowingly leveled entire buildings full of civilians to pursue these targets. One example is the Jabaliya camp strike a few weeks back that killed scores of refugees and was allegedly done in pursuit of a single Hamas combatant.

[sacred bane]

Jabalia camp strike is not mentioned in this guardian article you shared?

Are you assuming this AI system was used to target Hamas commander Ibrahim Biari, or did you read that?

[fervent fable]

It's implied in the +972 Magazine article cited in the Guardian. I assumed someone had posted that piece here already, as it made the rounds, but it seems perhaps not:

https://www.972mag.com/mass-assassination-factory-israel-calculated-bombing-gaza/

[fervent fable]

On second read, it seems it is my assumption that they're implying that. In the piece they cite an Amnesty International investigation which revealed a discrepancy in Israel's characterization of the target versus its known geography.

But no explicit mention that AI was specifically involved in that strike, my bad.

[sacred bane]

It is also mentioning a strike on the 9th October and not the 31st October strike targeting Ibrahim Biari

[fervent fable]

Yes, you're correct. Though the 31st strike was also justified on similar grounds (targeting of a specific individual related to Oct 7 planning)

[sacred bane]

The 9th strike was targeted at "a Hamas operational asset, located in a mosque" https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/378136

[fervent fable]

This IDF statement is addressed in the Amenesty report as quoted in the +972 article.

[sacred bane]

More addressing your claim it was targeted at a single person involved in the October 7th attacks, than debating whether the target was an actual mosque.

[fervent fable]

What does "intelligence asset" signify in that article exactly? An individual? A piece of hardware?

[sacred bane]

I'm not sure these 2 paragraphs are linked. But an intelligence asset could mean human informants, electronic surveillance equipment, communication intercepts, or any other means of collecting actionable intelligence data. In Hamas's case it could even amount to some computers and guys on them, it isn't clear.

[short yacht]

Perhaps another laptop with a widely circulated photo of a rescued hostage open

[grand fiber]

Instead of marking it, the preferable option would be to just not post it.

[grand fiber]

That applies here too.

[short yacht]

But they actually did that

[grand fiber]

And that is completely irrelevant in this context. Also, again, everyone, please keep discussion out of this channel. We tolerate a limited amount of discussion in #israel-palestine, but not here.

[fervent fable]

https://vxtwitter.com/PalestineRCS/status/1730653995956343055?s=20

[glacial leaf]

Names of the babies left at al Nasr hospital during a forced evac on 10 Nov, per reports. They died & were found decomposing during the pause, per a journalist on the ground.

1- Salem Abu Qainis.
2-Mazen Al-Taweel.
3-Jawahir Al-Kafarna
4-Ibn Ihab Al-Bahatiti.
5-Yahya Shabat.

Spoiler for partially blurred photo in the tweet suggesting where the babies were found: ||https://vxtwitter.com/MuathHamed/status/1730713846837285169||

[supple osprey]

https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/latest/msf-convoy-attack-gaza-all-elements-point-israeli-army-responsibility I think this is an update to this event. Includes a report of an Israeli tank destroying MSF vehicles on the 24th of November at 4:30, ahead of the truce starting at 7:00

CW: grim testimonies.

[calm harness]

https://vxtwitter.com/manniefabian/status/1730878239067783576

[hybrid lintel]

Red alert has a warning from 5:42: https://t.me/tzevaadomm/17465

[half panther]

Seems like it’s from a speech dated May 2021

#1161401676943609907 message

[nocturne void]

what's the source of this?
also this is still after the violation at 5:42

[velvet bison]

Kinda buried in this story but

In the clearest sign yet that a return to negotiations for further truces was unlikely, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu directed negotiators to return to Israel.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-12-2-2023-f300e8dac70d5309bf5f5a75bace7689

Additionally

Mark Regev, a senior advisor to Netanyahu, said Israel was making “maximum effort to safeguard Gazan civilians" and the military has used leafleting, phone calls, and radio and TV broadcasts to urge Gazans to move from specific areas. “We’ve not asked the whole population of the south to relocate,” he said.

Regev added that Israel is considering a future security buffer zone that would not allow Gazans direct access to the border fence on foot, adding that Israel does not plan to annex any territory from Gaza.

[fervent fable]

https://vxtwitter.com/azaizamotaz9/status/1731028122177360304
The journalist Motaz Azaiza reports that the middle section is besieged by tanks in both south and north? Maybe unclear from ground

[pastel mountain]

The section in Arabic looks much longer, is there anything important there?

[calm harness]

Google translated (with corrections from @fervent fable ): "The stage of risking transferring the picture has ended and the stage of trying to survive has begun. I have transferred enough, and I bear witness to God that it was for his sake and for the service of my country. We are now living under the beginning of an internal siege. We cannot go out, whether towards the north or the south. Israeli tanks are surrounding the central region from the north and south. Our situation is tragic, not yet. From what you can imagine, remember that we are not content for sharing. We are a people being killed and a cause that we try not to erase from existence, alone!"

[proper mantle]

oh sorry, I didn't know that was against the policies (or that it was private).

[tight kernel]

It's listed under #rules as #6!

[proper mantle]

gotcha. I guess it didn't occur to me that a known journalist's profile would count as doxing.

[tight kernel]

I didn't see the post, just trying to be helpful with the rules. I'm sure if you DMed JK he would clarify for you 🙂

[proper mantle]

It was just a link to his FB profile (found by searching his name in Arabic). Anyway, thanks for pointing out the rule!

[grand fiber]

It's unclear if that was his personal account or in some way related to his work. In general, posting personal social media accounts is almost always discouraged here, except for rare exceptions. Also, in this case, a report by CPJ for example is a much better piece of evidence than a personal Facebook account, in my opinion.

[short needle]

https://vxtwitter.com/evanhill/status/1730993416299823410

[fervent fable]

He says "a people being killed", google has a terrible time detecting Arabic passive tense without diacretical marks, or through context.

[calm harness]

Thanks, tried to fix it. How does it look now?

[fervent fable]

I got this from X, it fixes most of the mistakes, though he does not say genocide he says "a people being killed"

Though in Arabic, genocide isn't a common word and is awkward to say (الإبادة الجمعاية "group-wide extermination") so it's not too off from what he seems to be conveying.

[real lodge]

Looks like Hamas refused to release a group of 17 women and 2 children. https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-12-2-23/h_7c0d0767b52dd8aaf1a8ad8e18a0cb32 and https://www.ynetnews.com/article/hk7o4xysp. I think this tracks with other reporting saying Hamas was trying to extract a higher price for further hostage releases.

[fervent fable]

Israel alleges that the talks broke down over the release of women. Hamas alleges that the talks broke down about the issue of releasing captured female military personnel specifically: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/2/israeli-bombs-hundreds-of-targets-in-gaza-as-truce-efforts-continue

[clear olive]

Deputy leader of hamas says that all hostages now are military or ex-military, and he claims the women/children civilians are not alive and that israel has refused to receive the bodies of the bibas family (whose only surviving member was in a hamas hostage video released during truce agreement)
https://t.me/LebUpdate/35402

[bitter hollow]

"Hamas claimed that it was only holding three more Israeli women and children hostage and that Israel had rejected offers to extend the ceasefire to receive them on Friday morning."
"Hayya claimed that Israel was "trying to be cunning and clever" by demanding that female soldiers be considered in the same deal as civilian women. He additionally claimed that Hamas offered to release elderly hostages in exchange for elderly Palestinian prisoners and that Israel had rejected these offers."
https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-776065

[fervent fable]

I wonder if they failed to retrieve hostages from other groups because they killed them.

[grand fiber]

Again, discussion goes in #israel-palestine. Thanks.

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/ytirawi/status/1731345250663248006

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/RamAbdu/status/1730921391606685897

[hoary wasp]

BBC confirming IDF ground forces pushing into Southern Gaza
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67605703?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=656d5a396868a4009ac43951%26What's happened in the last few hours%262023-12-04T04%3A48%3A59.429Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:3d75e932-ec99-49b8-b1a8-b754ea105f5b&pinned_post_asset_id=656d5a396868a4009ac43951&pinned_post_type=share

Mannie Fabian released footage around 15hrs ago alleging Israeli Merkava tanks blocking the SAD road between Deir al Balah and Khan Younis. this will probably have to be geolocated if possible although the images are of very limited view and the second image is of exceptionally poor quality
https://vxtwitter.com/manniefabian/status/1731313574683771004?s=20

[bitter hollow]

https://fxtwitter.com/fdov21/status/1731326633368232156

[hoary wasp]

amazing, thanks for that 🙂

[bitter hollow]

Wow, it took @calm harness 52 minutes to post this geolocation.

[hoary wasp]

I’ve said it previously and I say it again, the people who work geolocation must be using some eldritch magic lmao

[fervent fable]

https://vxtwitter.com/azaizamotaz9/status/1731718927602835701?t=CGSNCfm75jgfKPaGCPGdvQ&s=19

Several reports including this one that the tanks on SAD were shooting at evacuating civilians.

[stark stream]

Anyone else seen the reports that investors were short selling Israeli stocks:
I've included the link but because its the telegraph it doesn't work with 12ft.io so you just get the headline:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/12/04/hamas-short-selling-millions-betting-against-israel/

[pastel mountain]

#1161401676943609907 message

(appears to be a basic currency mistake, not intentional disinformation)

[stark stream]

So someone didn't do any research..

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/QudsNen/status/1731778602130182500

[fervent fable]

https://vxtwitter.com/DrTedros/status/1731775914621473109?s=20

[velvet bison]

https://vxtwitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1731737757343469684

[glacial leaf]

"Desperate residents of Khan Younis flee on foot, carrying what they can of their belongings, as Israel ordered people out of swathes of the main southern city in the Gaza Strip as it pressed its ground campaign deep into the south https://reut.rs/46NAO5c" Spoiler for some children in distress at the end of the narrated video clip and some blood on the face of a young boy at the end of the video clip. ||https://vxtwitter.com/Reuters/status/1731777897302724635||

[velvet bison]

The citation is this is literally a reporter from Axios quoting a us state department official y'all

[valid sapphire]

And than he said he heard it. Correction, he said I don't know it for a fact. 23.18
https://www.c-span.org/video/?532198-1/state-department-daily-briefing

[plush sun]

Can't see any tanks in the video. Nor any bullet impacts. The camera team is evacuating down the road which would expose them them maximally to any shooter on the road.
Did they release any corrobating pictures?

[proper mantle]

The original quote is around 17:30. Miller walks it back later, starting with a question from Said Arikat Matt Lee (AP) around 30:15.

[rugged urchin]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/04/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-sexual-violence-un.html

[proper mantle]

I’ve been informed by Ravid himself that Miller’s later admission that “I don’t know for a fact” does not constitute “walking back.” So Ravid seems to be fine with quoting hearsay? 🤷‍♀️

[dark spindle]

Hey so one of the citations for this article is another article also published by the NYT on 4 December which I will link below. The article you shared seems to obfuscate a lot of context around this issue whereas this one is very clear about exactly what we know so far and from which sources. The authors also write at length about the grievances Jewish women advocacy groups have had with the handling of this specific act of sexual violence. What is missing from the article I am linking, however, is coverage of the protest outside the U.N. which took place on 4 December

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/04/world/middleeast/oct-7-attacks-israel-hamas-sexual-violence.html

What neither article mentions is that the U.N. Commission of Inquiry has signaled its intentions to launch an investigation which intends to focus on acts of sexual violence by Hamas, but at least as of this article's publication, 29 November, "Israel has not cooperated with the commission, which it says has an anti-Israel bias." I feel like this is important context to include or acknowledge when accusations are made against the U.N. for allegedly downplaying the sexual violence allegedly perpetrated by Hamas. Though I feel it is valid to be upset that it has taken so long; whether or not there may be valid reasons for this delay.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-commission-investigate-hamas-sexual-violence-appeal-evidence-2023-11-29/

(apologies if this belonged in the main israel-palestine channel, if they do please tag me and I will delete and move them there)

[fervent fable]

Proximity of tanks is corroborated by the positions of tanks from satellite imagery along SAD discussed above. Otherwise its just his witness testimony, and the sound of tanks recorded the night before (one of the previous post on his timeline.)

[fervent fable]

President of the International Committee of the Red Cross speaks to the human cost of the war: https://vxtwitter.com/ICRCPresident/status/1731761900994621721?s=20

[hybrid lintel]

Ministry of Health reports of Israeli hostages being drugged with tranquillisers, also "starvation, lack of medical treatment and prolonged shackles": https://news.walla.co.il/item/3626845

[valid sapphire]

I have a video but need a mod to look at if before posting, who's online?

[orchid nymph]

Hi

[valid sapphire]

Young unarmed man gets shot into the leg. CW‼️Audio off, no blood but graphic.
Posted with permission || https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0eKT2Xqx1C/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== ||

eye.on.palestine

The Israeli occupation forces shot a Palestinian youth at the entrance of Qliqis village, southern Hebron. 5.12.23

إطلاق النار على شاب على بوابة خربة قلقس جنوب مدينة الخليل.

Likes

202919

Instagram

[short needle]

https://vxtwitter.com/AnnaBarskiy/status/1732043554241773883

https://t.me/manniefabian/41869

[short needle]

https://vxtwitter.com/DrTedros/status/1732087718136447245

[plush sun]

Did you forget to add the link?

[valid sapphire]

Strange. Will try again

[fervent fable]

Wonder how long before they have to move it again.

https://www.firstpost.com/world/impossible-to-create-so-called-safe-zones-for-civilians-within-gaza-strip-says-un-13468822.html

[fervent fable]

https://vxtwitter.com/MustafaBarghou1/status/1732151337175896403

Forced hospital evacuations in the north continue.

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/democracynow/status/1732206977474834454

[hot axle]

Belated news, Oct 7 NYT gifted https://vxtwitter.com/nukestrat/status/1731778387989930415 gifted ❤️
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/04/world/middleeast/militant-rocket-israel-oct-7.html?unlocked_article_code=1.DU0.sIBe.KEN61CVMbYMh&smid=url-share xpost #bombs-arms-drones-other-killing-machines

[fervent fable]

https://vxtwitter.com/hahellyer/status/1732450228630864227

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/hindhassannews/status/1732450898037588357

[valid sapphire]

Demolishing houses around Lifestock
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C0gvyKtq28V/?igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng==

eye.on.palestine

The occupation forces demolished a number of homes and structures in Masafer Yatta, southern Hebron. Via @youthofsumud 6.12.23

هدم عدد من المساكن و المنشآت في مسافر يطا جنوب الخليل

Likes

30875

Instagram

[short needle]

https://vxtwitter.com/1james_elder/status/1732481149644005730

[rugged urchin]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181

[fervent fable]

This has been posted and discussed ad naseum. Read the article closely.

[rugged urchin]

Don't see the article posted at all above. Has it been shared below in the other Israel/Palestine channel?

Also I did read the article closely and it pretty clearly states that photographic evidence was provided to the BBC.

Yeah no, I don't see it posted there either so I have no idea what you're refering to.

@fervent fable

[grand fiber]

People are free to discuss the article (within the rules).

[fervent fable]

Yup, in the Israel/Palestine channel.

[rugged urchin]

It isn't? The article is fron Dec 5th, and I've scrolled back twice to Dec 4th.

[fervent fable]

#israel-palestine message

Was also discussed in SA thread. Was just giving a heads up because mods said to move on earlier, but it seems thats over.

[grand fiber]

You're welcome to discuss the article within the rules over in #israel-palestine. But that means not to derail it into a political debate.

[stark stream]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtFFwMS0fcw More hamas war footage I can't tell what RPGs they are using but they are using Go pros to capture the footage. They seem to have modest success..

[velvet bison]

Haven't seen any sentinel imagery comparisons.

Here's 1 December vs 6 December just outside Khan Yunis
https://sentinelshare.page.link/vJ94

You can clearly see where there's been some kind of ground movement just to the north east

[stark stream]

Yeah I did wonder if the action I linked was north or south Gaza, I was browsing the AFP image website and there are lots of images there in case people want to look[Warning there are pictures of death etc.]

[ember pond]

Was able to geolocate some of the footage posted today by the IDF showing troops near Khan Yunis: https://twitter.com/NemoAnno/status/1732549811855909107

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/jacobkornbluh/status/1732443605824856132

[plush sun]

A chabad house is essentially a Jewish community centre .

[plush sun]

RPG-7 with a PG7-VR tandem charge round or the local clone al-Yassin 105. With the blck paint, it's probably the latter.

[fervent fable]

Arabic language Gazan accounts have been reporting mass detentions in northen Gaza, and allegations of summary executions near a UN school.
(CW: second post in thread shows people shot dead)
https://twitter.com/RamAbdu/status/1732756685515600011

[orchid nymph]

One of the men shown in the photo, is believed to be the head of news platform al-Arabi al-jadeed in Gaza
https://www.newarab.com/news/israel-detains-tna-arabic-reporter-gaza-mass-arrest

https://twitter.com/Lowkey0nline/status/1732794498499985860

[fervent fable]

They were apparently detained from a UN shelter, women and kids left behind.
https://twitter.com/MustafaBarghou1/status/1732792133147303943

[orchid nymph]

I am seeing some messages that they are killing everyone above 15, but I don't think this is confirmed? Only mass arrests confirmed? Just absolutely insane how the world does nothing to stop Israel

[hoary wasp]

https://vxtwitter.com/geoconfirmed/status/1732799121231089740?s=46&t=Em0jLeT8wFAMkRtrUQ55wA

[tight kernel]

"I am seeing some messages" does not help us locate the source of this information. Please link to the messages you are seeing.
"Absolutely insane how the world does nothing to stop Israel" is commentary that is just going to devolve into fighting. Please just tell us what you want to know and supply a link.

[fervent fable]

Do you have any links? If they're too graphic you can DM them. I have not seen evidence of summary executions beyond some secondhand reports allegedly relayed to family members residing outside of Gaza. Only a video alleging the killing of civilian men including one on a stretcher and one with a white flag near the scene of the mass arrests.

[old rover]

Adding to Sarah's message, I think you may have missed an important announcement that was posted today. Here is a link: #announcements message

[pulsar falcon]

https://www.instagram.com/p/C0juZQMNvf5/?igshid=ODhhZWM5NmIwOQ== (idk how to do the Instagram equivalent of Vxtwitter) but here's a post claiming Israel is conducting mass executions

Photos aren't graphic, just shows IDF soldiers arresting and transporting what appears to be Gazan men

majazzproject

Okey this is happening now in Gaza man are being executed in the front of their kids, wife’s and families. This is the literal definition of terrorism. It’s going to be a beautiful and brave new world without the Palestinians.

Likes

1509

Instagram

[hollow turret]

Can see an image of the same area from recent Planet imagery (December 06). Interestingly, I don't see much evidence of the claimed launch site (could have been covered? or recently put in — available Planet imagery going back to Oct08 doesn't show any activity).

[pulsar falcon]

found a few more tweets claiming the same thing, posting it on #1161401676943609907

[glacial leaf]

What is going on with the last sentence in the caption?

[nocturne void]

it's probably cynical/sarcastic

[tight kernel]

It's interesting because the first sentence is kind of halting in its English but the last two are very correctly written (I am not saying the content is correct). It's like the last two sentences are copied and pasted from somewhere else

[proper mantle]

I read that sentence as "What a beautiful and brave new world Israel will build without the Palestinians." (with extremely heavy sarcasm!)

[tight kernel]

You would probably know "men" before "literal definition of terrorism" and "brave new world"

[proper mantle]

TBH this kind of language seems natural to me. My Arabic might read the same way -- we learn set phrases from media.

Also this image evokes so many scenes of mass executions in decades past that I'm not surprised people are leaping to that conclusion. (I don't think executions are happening, to be clear -- just that this is probably not a concerted disinfo scheme.)

[tight kernel]

Yes. I'm wondering if anyone has geolocated it

[atomic ridge]

Seeing some people reporting conflicting locations. This claims it is Beit Lahia (northern Gaza), while others are saying this is Khan Younis (southern Gaza). This is the only person I've seen with a specific location, though - not sure if this will help with an official geolocation.
https://vxtwitter.com/ytirawi/status/1732761278832054738

[glacial leaf]

"Jabaliya area" as reported by Times of Israel: #1161401676943609907 message

[atomic ridge]

This would be consistent with Beit Lahia, which is just north of Jabalia.

[glacial leaf]

& the article has an embedded Tweet with video which may help with exact geolocations

[fervent jewel]

Wrote a small report on this. https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/12/07/world/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news?smid=url-share#here-is-what-we-know-about-israels-evidence-that-hamas-fired-rockets-from-safe-zones

So this is what the IDF put in their graphic for the launch site.
The SkySat imagery is 7 or so hours before the launch, per IDF timestamps.

Basically... the launchers were lightly covered in sand/positioned in dug outs below, is what they're saying.

IDF also screwed up one of their graphics, but it's a fairly minor error. The arrow in the bottom-right of this graphic actually points northeast, not south/southeast (direction of fire and the dugouts). This satellite image is flipped upside down.

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/1732850536641069415

[fervent jewel]

Good photo here too, launch site on the left

[hollow turret]

Yeah, looking at previous SkySat imagery didn't reveal too much. There were a couple dots near there that showed up/disappeared in the Nov26 imagery, but didn't really see anything else notable.

[fervent jewel]

Yeah I was thinking one of those little black dots could be it, but I think they were being covered up by sand... hard to tell.

[ember pond]

Me and @ChrisOsieck took a crack at geolocating some of the footage to "Market Street", Beit Lahia. We're quite convinced it's there: https://twitter.com/NemoAnno/status/1732866839787581536

[ember pond]

This would correspond to Younis' location. ^

[fervent fable]

More corroboration.
The EuroMed head who posted the images says the men were sheltered with their families at a school.

The AJ report I linked to below states that a mass of people were forcibly relocated from two schools near to the Indonesian Hospital, which on the map is a 1.5 km walk from the coordinates you posted. There are several education buildings in the vicinity. I've seen the school described as specifically a UN school but not sure.
#1161401676943609907 message

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/Lemapal/status/1732847560807575735

[sacred bane]

seems like the apparent surrender was in a new pocket created at Beit Lahiya by comparing the pharmacy in a local twitter post, I haven't seen exact geolocation.
the pocket creation reported by warmapper on their map on the 6th December at 23:00 https://soar.earth/maps/asia-gaza-israel-conflict-as-of-06-12-2023-16759?pos=31.50976148788436%2C34.402038218328904%2C11.94

[glacial leaf]

Not sure "surrender" is the right word, but yea, seems like it is confirmed Beit Lahia https://vxtwitter.com/NaksBilal/status/1732771098159112246

https://vxtwitter.com/NaksBilal/status/1732921537915662608

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/qudsn/status/1732998871683334302

I don't know what the white smoke is but this snap suggests white phosphorous at night near Jabaliya Camp. https://map.snapchat.com/ttp/snap/W7_EDlXWTBiXAEEniNoMPwAAYeWhrcHJ6bGZsAYxGnOXUAYxGnN_BAAAAAQ/@31.532467,34.489994,12.13z

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/perugininic/status/1733011554113589676

[valid sapphire]

Can someone translate the talk?

[nocturne void]

3,2,1
yesss!
not very clear either "heads down" or "to the people down there" (I'm assuming referring in general to gazans)
take that, happy Hanukkah, this is the first candle (of Hanukkah)

[valid sapphire]

Thx

[nocturne void]

https://vxtwitter.com/IDF/status/1732842445191229937?s=20

no blood or gore just shooting

[glacial leaf]

This almost seems like satire. Is there more info about the body cam?

[formal musk]

lol yeah the IDF social media game has never been good

must have grabbed the video off a dead fighter or otherwise found it somewhere, but that just seems like a bog standard video of fighthers in an urban environment

[valid sapphire]

Better in disinfo

[formal musk]

There's 1,000,000 videos exactly like that one from every other urban combat zone in the world

[formal musk]

Why? The text of the tweet is clearly slanted because it's the IDF, but the video seems legit. I don't see anything to indicate otherwise

[valid sapphire]

Ok

[devout wyvern]

As a layman looks too stable and controlled to be a body cam... And there's zooming. A phone camera? This is of course not to say it isn't legit.

[formal musk]

Ya good eye, it might not be a body cam, but then again that wouldn't be the first thing wrong with that the text of that IDF tweet lol

maybe someone was holding the GoPro instead of wearing it on their chest or whateever

[true stream]

May be slightly post-processed, e.g. de-shaking and cropped? Also, some higher-end body/Go-Pro cams may have de-shaking out of the box.

[orchid nymph]

They could be holding it on a gimbal stabilizer. Modern mobile cameras also do a bit of built-in stabilization work.

[glacial leaf]

Arguments that it is fake as gleaned from the quote retweets: 1) body cams don't zoom 2) Hamas militants cover their faces 3) inside windows are different from outside windows in the cut away smokey shot

[formal musk]

I think "fake" is the wrong word

Edited, maybe

The smokey building bit at the end is clearly a cut from a different part of the video (or a separate video)

But the video doesn't show anything out of the ordinary for combat in an urban setting. It's almost innocuous.

If the video allegedly showed them in a school, or shooting at a school, or if the claim was that they were taking over a school or a hospital or something, that'd be more suspicious

You can even read the video the opposite way that the IDF intends it by thinking, "Well, geez, the only reason you these guys are doing this is because you invaded their city, so if you don't want people to fight in urban environments then don't invade"

[glacial leaf]

Yeah, whether or not the video footage is authentic, this is urban warfare- the only type Gazans are capable of

[formal musk]

Yeha exactly. That's why it's a bad tweet from the IDF, they're pointing out to something really obvious (there's fighting because you, the IDF, invaded) and the fact that it doesn't claim to show a war crime or anything leads me to believe it's just an authentic video that a person who is bad at PR wanted to spin

[old rover]

It's good to be critical and wary of alternative motives etc., but sometimes it just is what it is.

[fervent fable]

https://vxtwitter.com/ireallyhateyou/status/1732721238793937221?s=20
Cannot vouch for the translation, but done by a Hebrew speaker.

[half panther]

Here is a full translation:
On the radio: 3, 2, 1 [explosion]
Soldier 1: Wow…
Soldier 2 [yelling]: Yes! Heads Down! Yes! [cheering in the background] Take that!
Soldier 1: Once upon a time there was a university
Soldier 2 [yelling]: Happy Hanoukkah [to the] people of Israel! [laughing in the background]
Soldier 1: That’s what we call "the first candle" [of hanoukkah]
Soldier 3: Happy Hanoukkah [to the] people of Israel [in the background: First candle, friends, first candle] Happy Hanoukkah from [unclear]

Heb:

‎בקשר: 3, 2, 1 [פיצוץ]
‎חייל 1: וואו…
‎חייל 2 [צועק]: יס! ראשים למטה! יס! קחו את זה!
‎חייל 1: היה הייתה אוניברסיטה
‎חייל 2 [צועק]: חג שמח עם ישראל! [חיילים צוחקים ברקע]
‎חייל 1: מה שנקרא ״נר ראשון״
‎חייל 3: חג שמח עם ישראל [ברקע: נר ראשון חברים, נר ראשון] חג שמח מ[לא ברור]

[valid sapphire]

thx

[half panther]

The first sentence: לכבוש could be translated as “conquer”
/“occupy” (or both).
The last sentence: They are saying בלתי מעורבים, literally: “uninvolved”, meaning: non combatants/civilians.

[fervent fable]

https://vxtwitter.com/MouinRabbani/status/1733009815306162182

[fervent fable]

https://vxtwitter.com/GElkahlout/status/1732847867889389869
It seems 5 of the detainees were from the same Al-Kahlot family. The brother of one of the detainees announced that the man and his 3 sons were released.

[thick shadow]

The two individuals designated today are Mohammed Deif, Commander General of the military wing of Hamas (« Brigades Ezzedin al-Qassam ») since 2002, and Marwan Issa, the deputy Commander of the military wing of Hamas. Following their listing, the two individuals are subject to the freezing of their funds and other financial assets in EU member states. It is also prohibited for EU operators to make funds and economic resources available to them.
https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2023/12/08/fight-against-terrorism-council-adds-two-individuals-to-the-eu-terrorist-list-in-response-to-the-7-october-attacks/

[stark stream]

The videos I've seen from Hamas fighting they are a lot less cautious and a lot more shouting of Allah Akhar etc.

Also propaganda Hamas videos normally have the "money shot" of the munition or tank blowing up

[glacial leaf]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67654848

[thick shadow]

https://www.mako.co.il/news-military/6361323ddea5a810/Article-5c124e8f8784c81027.htm
the IDF raided a target in the Gaza Strip following intelligence information - but did not locate any hostages
The IDF announced that fighters raided a target in the Gaza Strip, killing terrorists "who were holding the hostages" - but did not locate any Israelis at the scene • Two IDF fighters were seriously injured during the operation, a message was given to their families • According to Hamas, the force was exposed and there was an exchange of fire

[fair magnet]

Well this is released by the IDF, rather than a Hamas highlight reel. The complete video could have even included such footage and just been edited out by the IDF. Hamas is also likely only to release the best clips they get out of the footage they receieve from troops conducting the attacks. I don't see anything that outright strikes me as fake. Them crawling/being quiet could be explained by the POV at the end that seems to be from IDF troops who are shooting at the Hamas militants making it look like Hamas was in a building that was across the street, or overlooking IDF troops on a street.

[stark stream]

I wonder where they got the content from, was it intercepted electronically or are there elements working for the Israelis within the Hamas warfighting units.
I don't think its fake either I think its just very interesting how it shows very different content to what I've previously seen and particularly the body armour is something I've not previously seen and the caution also potentially indicates a better level of training.

[fair magnet]

They could have killed the Hamas members and recovered the camera off of them.

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/clashreport/status/1732799195130532245

[fair magnet]

Also there have been plate carriers/vests in pictures and videos of weapon caches found by the IDF. I can't tell if that vest actually has plates/kevlar or not.

This video shows quite a few clips of Hamas engaging IDF and being pretty quiet. When they shout it's usually pretty close to them engaging, IE right as they fire, right after they fire, or in one case after the militant has engaged and retreated away a little bit.
https://vxtwitter.com/ytirawi/status/1726217525716017313?s=20

[short needle]

https://www.reuters.com/world/state-dept-asks-congress-approve-sale-israeli-tank-rounds-amid-growing-rights-2023-12-08/

https://vxtwitter.com/icelandun/status/1733200802880110634

https://vxtwitter.com/un_news_centre/status/1733227403944616096

[fervent fable]

They also don't show their faces so blatantly

[stark stream]

Typically its blurred by Al jazeera I think

[fair magnet]

I think that's more likely a product of the editing then having the militants worry about cameras displaying faces on during an attack they might die conducting, as well as focus on tactics

All the differences so far can be explained by it being released by the IDF versus being released by the Hamas. Both have incentives to show or not show certain acts, like faces, strikes against IDF

[pastel mountain]

If you are in a firefight and need to communicate anything you have to yell very loudly, there are literal gunshots that drown it out otherwise

It isn't a Hamas thing, it's a military thing (absent from the very best equipped forces where everyone has suppressors and earpros)

[fair magnet]

More than 2,000 IDF and other security/police have been seriously wounded since the start of the conflict
https://www.ynet.co.il/health/article/yokra13707397

[bitter hollow]

"The Israeli Army Has Dropped the Restraint in Gaza, and the Data Shows Unprecedented Killing"
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-12-09/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/the-israeli-army-has-dropped-the-restraint-in-gaza-and-data-shows-unprecedented-killing/0000018c-4cca-db23-ad9f-6cdae8ad0000
(archive https://archive.ph/940vd)

Note, Haarets lists all males from 18 to 59 y.o as combatants for the current war in this analysis (to make s stronger case, I assume).

[brittle arch]

Interactive map, journalists killed during the conflict, by the Committee to Protect Journalists
http://cpj.org/full-coverage-israel-gaza-war/#interactive-map

[half panther]

https://www.richardsilverstein.com/2023/12/08/breaking-israel-invokes-amalek-directive-to-assassinate-palestinian-social-media-activist-over-joke/

Richard Silverstein claims that according to an Israeli security source the cabinet approved the assassination of Refaat al-Areer, supposedly under the so called Amalek Directive.
(Some context: Silverstein is a blogger who was the first to report on some major stories that were under gag orders or military censorship in Israel, and his reporting was proven accurate. However, there were cases where he we was fed some false information, which he published without sufficient verification. It was then used by his critics to discredit him. So take it with a grain of salt)

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/ianbremmer/status/1733339018220216802

several examples of this, of course

[pulsar falcon]

Could be inspired by soldiers seeing how popular Ukrainian flag raising is

[glacial leaf]

Except, Ukranian flag raising wasn't on Russian soil, right?

[tight kernel]

I feel like Israel is taking media hints from what Ukraine has done - I see the same pattern vhfg does. But, like you say, it's a reversed situation

[grim oak]

"Amalek Directive" sounds like something the blogger made up by himself. Impossible to verify, based on anonymous sources, blog raises money from donations (i.e. outrage drives revenue)

[fervent fable]

I think that the new Israeli government and society are nostalgic for the period in which they were settling Gaza and view withdrawal as a mistake in retrospect. And I think that claiming land from Arabs is a raison d'etre for Israel's right-wing and that this is reflected in their current conduct in Gaza.

[half panther]

As I said, the context is important.
You can read more about the blog on wiki (the Heb version gives more info and references)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tikun_Olam_(blog)

[half panther]

More specifically, it’s a “known secret” that journalists and other sources are leaking information to bypass censorship, after which they can usually publish it quoting “foreign sources”

https://forward.com/news/142723/blogger-carves-out-niche-baring-israeli-intel-secr/

[sacred bane]

There seems to be another video of surrendering Palestinians ||https://x.com/YaariCohen/status/1733548691837932015?s=20||

[sacred bane]

He dropped off 3 AK and 3 clips in total

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/evanhill/status/1733604854310809754

[pulsar sinew]

Soldiers planting flags on conqured ground has been a thing for a long, long time

[half panther]

One of the iconic events in the Israeli history is the planning of the “ink flag” during the 1948 war

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ink_Flag

[pulsar falcon]

The ink flag was also inspired by raising the flag at Iwo jima and the Reichstag - soldiers raising flags is such a common thing across history I wouldn't input any particular meaning

[pulsar sinew]

Yes, it's a moral boost to the conqueror and a signal to the defeated their fight is over, at least in theory

[fair magnet]

It was discussed a bit here#israel-palestine message
And fdov made a very good observation a bit further down here #israel-palestine message

[pulsar sinew]

Should be posted in disinfo Imo to keep track

[clear olive]

OK nevermind. Yes those threads I'll change to disinformation

[glacial leaf]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67666270?xtor=AL-72-[partner]-[bbc.news.twitter]-[headline]-[news]-[bizdev]-[isapi]&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_link_id=046B3DBC-9610-11EE-809D-68BDE03B214A&at_medium=social&at_link_type=web_link&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_format=link&at_campaign_type=owned&at_link_origin=BBCWorld

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/jeffreyasachs/status/1732396617901437113

[pulsar sinew]

Shame this poll isn't accompanied with a demographic slice chart

[fervent fable]

The man-made starvation crisis is deepening: https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-war-southern-gaza-humanitarian-conditions-4da8410ab2e849adef8aff18c79b310c

[restive mauve]

Can anyone provide translation for this video? The claim is that it is IDF burning a supply truck in Shujaiya. As it seems to be inside some form of warehouse not sure if its possible to geolocate it.

https://twitter.com/Lowkey0nline/status/1733632791043072296/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1733632791043072296&currentTweetUser=Lowkey0nline

[nocturne void]

the soldier's saying that he's in a candy/sweets factory in shujaiya that hands out candies to kids after terror attacks and that a tunnel was found nearby and that they're lighting the light in the place of darkness till there's nothing left (of the darkness)
the rest he's just saying happy Hanukkah etc

[fair magnet]

IDF has released official wounded numbers:

Since October 7, the IDF says 1,593 soldiers have been wounded, including 255 seriously, 446 moderately, and 892 lightly. Another 425 soldiers have been killed, mostly during the October 7 onslaught.

In the ground offensive in Gaza, which was launched in late October, 97 soldiers have been killed and another 559 have been wounded. Of the injured soldiers, 127 are listed in serious condition, 213 in moderate condition, and 219 in good condition.
https://vxtwitter.com/manniefabian/status/1733803648994422818?s=20
https://www.idf.il/160590

[restive mauve]

Thank you.

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/arifanwar/status/1733815981246406995

[proper mantle]

I mentioned in the other thread, but since it's highlighted here: This second point, about the hand gestures, is probably not accurate because people in that region typically count starting with their thumb, so 1 is thumb, 2 is thumb and forefinger.

[valid sapphire]

So I looked at this study and it says * most and says the counting would start on the right hand with the pinky. Again *most
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/200744217_Finger_Counting_Habits_in_Middle_Eastern_and_Western_Individuals_An_Online_Survey

[proper mantle]

The only people I can confirm do that is older Persians. I have never seen anyone in the Arab world count from their pinky.

I confirmed the thumb-counting with a Lebanese person and a diaspora Palestinian, talking about their parent.

Turks also count one from the thumb.

[valid sapphire]

It's also a difference if you count for yourself, palm to face, or to show it to someone in a distance. The hand palm faced to another person is unusual. For better optics I would not show the thumb.

[proper mantle]

I don't know. The whole point of hand gestures is they're visible. I have certainly had a Turkish waiter gesture "1" to me across a room, in the form of a thumbs-up.

[plush sun]

That tweet is misinformation. The oldest part of notre dame opened in 1182.

[mint aurora]

It's a complicated missinformation. Yes noterdam is older than "1340". But the mosque isn't built in 1340. It was an Byzantine church built in 5th century and destroyed multiple times because of the earthquakes (rebuilt in 1340). The statement is correct it's older than the notre-dame but it's not built in 1340.

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Mosque_of_Gaza

[pulsar sinew]

interesting development https://twitter.com/indiehas/status/1733723218010120380

[fervent fable]

Testimonies from released Dier al Balah detainees describe major abuses by Israeli forces against civilians: https://vxtwitter.com/AJEnglish/status/1733890763048591618?s=20

[plush sun]

Yeah it got a pretty complicated history with lots of rebuilds and even contains a pillar from an old gazaen synagogue.

[fervent fable]

Most alarming was the mock execution. Deputy Mayor of Jerusalem almost got his wish...

[pulsar falcon]

worth crossposting to #1168282793495765022 with the obvious caveat that tweets != reality

[plush sun]

It's a report by aljazeera who have been a major source of disinformation in this conflict. AJ is Quatari state media with Quatar being the most important supporter of Hamas after Iran. I would take that report with a massive grain of salt.

[fervent fable]

You're entitled to your opinion.

[tight kernel]

There was a very good post a while ago about looking at each story on an individual basis, vs writing off organizations/media outlets as "disinformation"

[glacial leaf]

What examples of disinfo on behalf of Al Jazeera can you share with us? I've been monitoring their channels throughout the past two months and do not recall much disinfo if any.

[fervent fable]

Will add that I also find no discrepancies in the translation of that video.

https://vxtwitter.com/CarmenJoukhadar/status/1733771209278693853
Was gonna post this in spillover, but that's for outside Levant

In addition to deepening hunger, spread of disease in southern Gaza shelters is too. Due to blockade not even close to what is needed is getting in.
https://vxtwitter.com/NourNaim88/status/1733464092852031830

[tight kernel]

URTI is probably Upper Respiratory Tract Infection, if anyone has trouble with that acronym. we'd be able to see the impact if we had a baseline of population health, which we probably don't

325k cases out of ????

also, if I have food poisoning AND diarrhea, am I one case or counted twice 🤔

[fervent fable]

Probably hard to account for exactly how many people are concentrated in the south now, but it's most of Gaza. According to UN most water is contaminated. Good point about potential double-counting.

[tight kernel]

thanks, I really am interested in public health, and those were the things that jumped out at me

[grand fiber]

That's exactly it! Unless we know the baseline incidence of these diseases and the number of people + demographic composition there, these numbers don't really tell us if anything is out of the ordinary.

(Not trying to explain this to you, of course, just making it more clear to other people reading this.)

[tight kernel]

I don't doubt that disease is spreading rapidly (people packed together in shelters without adequate ventilation, unclean water, injury due to trauma (maybe that's Other? although I'm not sure if that would appear on an infectious disease log - however I don't consider jaundice infectious - it's a symptom - but maybe that's another type of hepatitis?), but yeah unfortunately I think most of the big names like WHO etc are going to ask the same questions I did

[mint aurora]

Also having thousands of dead people in the rubble not buried yet could also create issues

[fair magnet]

Israel claiming 7,000 Hamas killed, and 22,000 targets struck with 3,500 of those struck since the ceasefire ended.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israel-has-killed-over-7000-terrorists-no-deadline-for-gaza-war-national-security-adviser/
https://t.me/idfofficial/5816

IDF also stated they've fired more than 100,000 shells at Gaza. On November 28 that figure was 90,000. https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/defense-news/article-775523 https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-says-artillery-corps-operating-inside-gaza-for-first-time-since-ground-ops-start/ The last update was during the ceasefire, so they've fired about 1,000 rounds a day since the ceasefire ended. These figures are specifically shells, and don't include bombs/missiles. It could also refer to all types of shells fired including HE, Smoke and Illumination rounds.

[pulsar sinew]

https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1733923887031709850

been seeing unofficial reports on this for a few days now

[fair magnet]

OSINTdefender isn't very well respected here because they often share rumors, and never provide sources. You can search "osintdefender" and see some of the past conversations about them. Here's a quality source that provides somewhat similar, yet different reporting from a few days ago.
https://www.politico.eu/article/israel-could-open-second-front-lebanon-defense-minister-hintsgaza-hamas-war-yoav-gallant/

[pulsar sinew]

didn't know that about OSINTdefender, will refrain from sharing it, that being said, it's been reported in al-akhbar as well in more detail since the 7th, trying to find it

https://www.al-akhbar.com/Palestine/373935/أميركا-وفرنسا-تهد-دان-لبنان-سحب-المقاومة-من-الجنوب-أو-الحرب-ما-علاقة-التمديد-للقائد-بـ-1559-و1701

"French envoys who visited Beirut showed great sympathy beyond political support for Israel, and justified much of what the enemy is doing in Gaza. "We look at what happened on October 7 as if it happened to us, and if you take it in proportion to it, 1,400 dead in Israel is equivalent to 16,000 in France. If we were to suffer a blow that killed 16,000 French citizens, what would be our reaction? We will respond madly and with a mentality of revenge and cruelty, and we will not accept that anyone asks us what we are doing," he said.
Aimier made this reference when talking about "the need for Lebanon to take into account Israel's situation and seek to prevent an escalation, because no one will appreciate Israel's reaction to any escalation.""

from various places it paints a picture that the US, France and Israel have been communicating this decision for the past week, since this isn't likely to happen, war with Lebanon probability is going up everyday.

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/RamiJarrah/status/1734049419350147377

[pulsar sinew]

https://www.lebanonfiles.com/articles/أخبار-الساعة/الإعلام-الفلسطيني-استشهاد-الصحفي-الم/?id=33

Needs to be verified by a native speaker but this outlet says he died in a shelling and that he's a sport journalist/photographer

[mint aurora]

Generally talking, @LebUpdate on telegram doing great when something needed to verify about lebanon or hezbollah

[pulsar sinew]

yeah I think I'll abstain from using them

starts like this, ends like this, you won't get objective information from people that hold these kind of views

[mint aurora]

Nobody in the middleeast is supportor of israel. That’s the best thing you can fine. Also since hamas is not designated as terror organization by the UN its not propriate call hamas as terror organization. like idf, idf did war crimes but thas not makes idf an terror organization. also hamas did war crimes but they are not designated terrorist yet.

Also I did not the said its natural. It’s just the best channel to verify newd about south lebanon or hezbollah

[pulsar sinew]

I mean, I don't go to Israel Hayom to verify hebrew as well

[mint aurora]

It looks like that, but you can check their past. They believe in good propaganda is the correct one. Thats a plus point to them

[pastel mountain]

What matters is how transparent a source is about where the information comes from. The biggest problem with the likes of OSINTdefender is that they never say where they got the "information" or credit the original source, so you have no way of verifying their posts unless someone else reports them with due diligence. And that part of shoddy OSINT sphere will usually just echo each other's posts, so false "reports" can circulate for quite a while and even end up in the news. OSINTdefender has had quite a few notorious cases of spreading made up reports.

[pulsar sinew]

I disagree, those kind of places will censor anything that doesn't fit their agenda and will twist the truth to their bidding. that being said, this channel is for news sharing so we should stop discussing it here.

[pastel mountain]

I wasn't endorsing the Lebupdate, to be clear. Just spelling it out why you should not use Defender.

[valid sapphire]

content warning. video of the execution of injured Rami Aboushi is circulatin unblurred.

[nocturne void]

for context when he is at first shot u can see he drops a tube that looks like a fire extinguisher, there is a history of IED's being thrown at idf soldiers in the west bank as well as a history of fire extinguishers being used as to hold/hide IED's
https://t.me/arabworld301/13012
https://t.me/abualiexpress/43807?single
it can be reasonably assumed that the idf shot him after seeing the fire extinguisher and assuming (whether correctly or not) that he's trying to throw an IED at them and therefore shot him
whether or not the bullets shot at him after he was on the ground and injured are justified is a different story (and I'm not familiar with the law in such a situation)

[formal musk]

No way to tell what the IDF "reasonably assumed" or not based on that alone, IMO

We dont know if the IDF saw what he was holding, that if they saw it that they knew or didn't know what it was, etc.

[pulsar sinew]

at this point if you meet the IDF in the open and your arms aren't raised immediately you're in danger

[valid sapphire]

Whatever he lost or throwing away was unreachable when lying injured on the ground.

[nocturne void]

the extinguisher is right under his leg and pretty close to his left hand at 0:31
besides that I meant the first shot not the shots after he's on the ground

[formal musk]

This isn't gonna be a productive conversation so let's end it here please, thanks

[pulsar sinew]

https://www.maariv.co.il/news/politics/Article-1058905

Hamas is threatening to execute hostages if their demands aren't met while the IDF is advancing in Khan Younis as per this small excerpt

[mint aurora]

Hamas has no recent official statement regarding to that. The only statement about executing the hostages was in the first week of the war. And that was saying if you continue to bomb peoples houses without informing the civilians first we are going to "sadly" execute them, and later they dismissed that statement

[pulsar sinew]

This is from today, I don't know if anything new happened but Maariv isn't a random publication

[mint aurora]

Official statements made by hamas' military wings always shared to the official telegram chanels of theirs. which are bellow:

Martyr Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades:
https://t.me/qassambrigades
Abu Ubaida, military spokesman:
https://t.me/spokesman_2020
Martyr Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades - Reserve Channel:
https://t.me/qassam1brigades
Jihadi hats:
https://t.me/qabasat2018

you can always find the real-time automatic translated statements by hamas and islamic jihad here: https://t.me/resistmirror1
(just uses openai api to translate statements)

[pastel mountain]

Unfortunately it only cites "various reports" on this

[pulsar sinew]

yes, trying to dig into what are those various reports exactly

[pastel mountain]

Now besides public statements by Hamas it is certainly possible that there are threats through diplomatic channels and someone has insider sources, but I want to see a news outlet that says so explicitly

[pulsar sinew]

If it wasn't on Maariv I wouldn't bother looking into it tbh

[mint aurora]

off topic but to expand the official channels. and this is the official channel of hezbollah's millitary wing https://t.me/mmirleb (excluding al mayadeen and al manar)

[pulsar sinew]

https://www.reuters.com/world/italy-france-germany-call-ad-hoc-eu-sanctions-hamas-2023-12-11/

[fervent fable]

"Israel used U.S.-supplied white phosphorus munitions in an October attack in southern Lebanon that injured at least nine civilians in what a rights group says should be investigated as a war crime, according to a Washington Post analysis of shell fragments found in a small village."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2023/12/11/israel-us-white-phosphorus-lebanon/

[stark stream]

I don't want to reopen the debate over the video, but is there any documentation out there about how the IDF are meant to treat prisoners?[As I know from my own training {HM armed forces} our rules on prisoner detainment and searching is incredibly strict].

[mint aurora]

indeed according to: https://www.ohchr.org/en/instruments-mechanisms/instruments/geneva-convention-relative-treatment-prisoners-war

not showing them as thropy, picturing them half-naked, sharing them on the internet
calling the detainees as hamas' operatives while they are not (the government itself said they are civilian detainees)

[fair magnet]

I don't know about training materials or SOP, but this article has a few different statements by IDF and Israeli officials on it.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/images-of-stripped-and-bound-gazans-prompt-concern-over-idfs-arrest-tactics/

[fair magnet]

IDF claiming 500 militants captured in Gaza, and released two photos of clothed men that they detained.

In the past month, a total of over 350 Hamas terrorist operatives were apprehended by the IDF and ISA. In addition, over 120 Islamic Jihad terrorist operatives were apprehended. Overall, over 500 terrorist operatives were apprehended in the Gaza Strip and were transferred to Israeli territory for further questioning.
https://t.me/idfofficial/5842
https://idfanc.activetrail.biz/ANC111220230187324

[stark stream]

I mean that image alone contravenes what I was taught. For a 498 page report on how CPERS should be detained:https://iihl.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/JDP-1-10-Det-CPERS-2018-1.pdf so judging by GB doctrine these images are certainly questionable at best.

[fair magnet]

Well it seems like it's taught in the IDF to strip those that might be a potential threat. I assume they'd treat everyone suspected of involvement in terrorist activity as a potential threat. FTA:

The Israel Defense Forces said in a statement to AFP on Sunday that troops in Gaza detain and question individuals suspected of involvement in “terrorist activity.”

“Individuals who are found not to be taking part in terrorist activities are released,” it added, saying that the detainees are treated in accordance with international law.

According to the IDF, people deemed a potential threat are stripped to ensure that they are not carrying weapons or explosives.

[pulsar falcon]

https://vxtwitter.com/GuyPlopsky/status/1734163735869378606?s=20

[mint aurora]

(geolocated as https://vxtwitter.com/a7_mirza/status/1734245696360927690)

[fervent fable]

Beyond the images themselves are the tesitmonies of those released regarding their detention, which contained descriptions of major abuses including mock execution, as well as clear signs of beatings (interview posted above somewhere.)

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/reuters/status/1734432891680206961

[pulsar sinew]

Seems to be connected to what was discussed today in the #israel-palestine channel

[pulsar falcon]

https://vxtwitter.com/michaelh992/status/1734485399626498496?s=46&t=t0cnGSY3MZZcxBc9IvBOTQ

[mint aurora]

they “have” an official statement for that.
the full transcript: https://t.me/army21ye/1429

[pulsar falcon]

Can I get a translation if possible? I heard they said it was an oil tanker for Israel but seems like it's taking palm oil to Italy

If it's the second it means any and all shipping in the region could be at risk and def worth an extra highlight

[pulsar sinew]

it's more then second, they've been at it for a few weeks now, there have also been sporadic attacks in Yemen as a result

[mint aurora]

Checked the Google translates translate and it’s match. You can accept it as is.

summary:
they were heading to israel with oil,
we warned them
they ignored
we attacked them with the suitable naval missilie.
we will not hesitate to other ships who ignore our statement
there will be no ships gonna reach israel from the red sea until the food and aid reaches gazans

[fervent fable]

https://english.alarabiya.net/News/middle-east/2023/12/12/Houthi-missile-hits-Norwegian-flagged-tanker-off-Yemen-coast

Norwegian ship headed to Venice from Malaysia carrying oil

[half panther]

Haaretz is reporting about an IDF psychological warfare campaign targeting the Israeli public via an anonymous telegram channel, sharing incitement and images of supposed summary executions.
⚠️ TW/CW:
The article contains blurred screenshots and quotes of incitement & violent acts
||https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/security-aviation/2023-12-12/ty-article/.premium/graphic-videos-and-incitement-how-the-idf-is-misleading-israelis-on-telegram/0000018c-5ab5-df2f-adac-febd01c30000||

[fervent fable]

Is it possibly related to this? I don't want to wade into such vile channels to check tbh https://vxtwitter.com/ImGentleDamnit/status/1733705639522603264

So separate to the '72 Virgins' channel mentioned in the article then.

[half panther]

Not the same channel, but it’s possible they are copying material. Didn’t open it to verify coz I really don’t want to watch such things 😞

[mint aurora]

the betulot72 is not channel of 110k. the only channel with 110k and made for mocking the palestinians is the one i sent.

[valid sapphire]

i asked via twitter

[pulsar sinew]

The claim is that they operate the 72 virgins one"The IDF Operations Directorate's Influencing Department, which is responsible for psychological warfare operations against the enemy and foreign audiences, operates a Telegram channel called 72 Virgins – Uncensored", although the offical response is that they're not

[half panther]

That’s the one mentioned in the Haaretz article

[mint aurora]

(it was trend on twitter this week earlier, and saves the link from there)

[pulsar sinew]

Yes, although the interesting part is that there's an IDF one, not that it exists, these type of channels exists in every conflict, that's how we got the Hamas massacres

[half panther]

And that it’s aimed to influence the Israeli public opinion (rather than Palestinians)

[pulsar sinew]

Maybe you're thinking about Abu Ali Express? it's 100k but is focused on news, no gore etc

[mint aurora]

check the link I sent above, the @dead_terrorists one

[pulsar sinew]

Israeli public opinion doesn't need influencing, maybe just a moral boost during war, public opinion in Israel is unified in supporting the war in Gaza with plans for a northern skirmish when it's done already being widely discussed.

[mint aurora]

just focusing on sharing gore and mocking it up

[pulsar sinew]

Yeah I saw it, I was discussing the article

[formal musk]

Hi all, I'm going to be going through the channel and deleting some Telegram links if I think they're crossing the line

I'm concerned about the Discord ToS and our rules so please bear with me

[pulsar sinew]

It's basically extreme gore

[formal musk]

Correct

[valid sapphire]

if i get answer from wr i will ask how to deal with the information.

[mint aurora]

I guess we should share telegram channels as username and not link to avoid discord ToS

[formal musk]

Hi, I'm deleting this, please see my message above re: telegram channels that show extreme gore

[pulsar sinew]

Spoiler: Hamas wanted card deck
Interesting usage of AI, they used MJ/SD for the art works

[mint aurora]

(It’s a well known method to make play cards for patrol soldiers to make them remember important suspects name/face)

[half panther]

Yeah i was just trying to remove the link when you deleted it. Sorry for that

[pulsar sinew]

Yeah, just found it odd that it's art and not pictures of said suspects, it looks like it was made to mock them

after scanning the 72 one, it seems much more mild compared to the other one

[half panther]

Not going to go into a political debate. Just read the article, it’s addressed there.

[pulsar sinew]

He basically says the same thing "There is no reason for the IDF to conduct influence campaigns on Israeli citizens of Israel,", he continue to talk about the nature of the posts being disgraceful to the IDF

The influencing take is coming from the author as far as I can tell, which isn't surprising given the source

[half panther]

Again, not going into commentary.
Also, maybe we should continue the discussion in the other channel? Tagging @formal musk just to make sure

[pulsar sinew]

yeah this channel is supposed to be news sharing

[valid sapphire]

than do it

[formal musk]

Yes please, we're way past the reminder stage, please please follow the norms and rules as they should be familiar to you already.

[half panther]

The Israeli press is quoting Gantz (one of opposition leaders, joined the gov after Oct 7, ex IDF chief of staff, ex minister of defense) who said in a statement that Israel will hold territories in Gaza for a long time

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/381788

[mint aurora]

I guess this the hebrew one

https://www.inn.co.il/news/622815

[half panther]

https://vxtwitter.com/ran_shimoni/status/1734471940612424073

Haaretz reporter on the plans of some the more fundamentalist circles to recolonize Gush Katif (in western Gaza)

[pulsar sinew]

I stand corrected!

[half panther]

Yeah. Plenty in Heb

https://news.walla.co.il/break/3628247

https://www.davar1.co.il/472460/

https://www.srugim.co.il/874336-גנץ-נחזיק-בשטחים-ברצועה-לאורך-תקופה-א

[mint aurora]

I'm not sure which channel is more suitable, UAE and Saudi sources(social media) have been sharing Abu Ubaida and sharing an Imam and calling him Abu Ubaida since last night. It could be observed as a pattern; they suddenly started to share things. Maybe a state-sponsored thing?

[half panther]

If you think it’s propaganda and needs to be verified, than the disinfo IL/PAL channel i guess

[mint aurora]

btw, us state department's statement on the topic:

https://www.state.gov/briefings/department-press-briefing-december-11-2023/

....
...

QUESTION: I have one more on Israel, and one on a separate topic. But photos emerged – I don’t think you’ve been asked about this at the podium – photos emerged last week of Israeli forces detaining, blindfolding, and having stripped down men in Gaza. Does the State Department have any comment on this? Do you think it’s appropriate for such images to be taken? Do you agree with the Israeli assessment that these were Hamas fighters, given there are people who are saying these are normal civilians, family members?

MR MILLER: So those images were – we found those images deeply disturbing, and we are seeking more information, both about the nature of the images and of course why they’re public in the first place.

QUESTION: Have you gotten any responses from the Israeli Government?

MR MILLER: We are seeking more information. I don’t have a response at this point.

...
...

QUESTION: Thank you. I just want to follow up very quickly on the issue raised by Jennifer on the picture of the men stripped down, and so on. You agree with the spokesman for the Israeli Government who said this is the Middle East, and it gets a bit warm. That’s why they —

MR MILLER: So, I haven’t seen that —

QUESTION: You haven’t. Okay.

MR MILLER: Hold up. I haven’t seen that comment. So, I don’t want to comment in specific because I – but I would say that is certainly not a sentiment that we would agree with. We always have been clear with Israel about the necessary (inaudible) of acting in full compliance with international humanitarian law. And that does require that it protects civilians and treat detained individuals humanely and with dignity.

...
...

[pulsar sinew]

Where is that statement? Was it in jest?

[mint aurora]

which one? if the state departmants, it's daily press briefing made by mr miller, the departments spox

[pulsar sinew]

That the reason they stripped the men was because it was hot in the ME

[mint aurora]

It was made on skynews, while in an interviewing mark regev

https://youtu.be/OXgDoVwpo3o?feature=shared&t=22

[pulsar sinew]

Yeah that's a bit disinfo, he's not in any official position in Israel's government and that was said to suggest the stripped detainees weren't cold due to stripping, not to make fun of the situation

[mint aurora]

I don't recall he is commenting about it's cold or not. he is inserting it's hot -- the host never claimed it's cold or hot before that sentence --

[pulsar sinew]

The host didn't, he made that remark to dispel any suffering due to weather

That statement to the spox make it seem as tho the IDF spox is a comic book villain saying they're stripping them for entertainment, when in reality it was said by an outsider to the government and in the context of saying there's no suffering due to the stripping

[mint aurora]

I relistened to video. Still Negev didn't insert any statement about it's cold or weather. the only statement regarding to this topic(weather) is "
Middle East and it's warmer here and and especially during the day when it's sunny it's uh to be asked to take off your shirt it might not be pleasant but
it's not the end of the world"

His answer is more like so what?

[pulsar sinew]

I disagree but we can discuss it in another channel or a DM

[fervent fable]

https://vxtwitter.com/AricToler/status/1734592214943068292

[hollow turret]

Yeah, took a look on some Planet imagery and looks like the Beit Hanoun school was destroyed sometime between Novemeber 14 and November 21 https://vxtwitter.com/JakeGodin/status/1734591738298105928

[glacial leaf]

Do you have proof for these claims?

[nocturne void]

as an Israeli i can confirm
u see it by watching the news, hearing people talk in public, stuff like that
it's very clear what the public opinion in Israel is like rn

[glacial leaf]

I'm looking for empircal evidence that "Israel is unified in supporting the war in Gaza", not just a couple opinions from Israelis in this Discord server. For example, the large protests I have seen reported on in the media would contradict both your and devilismyfriend's personal opinions.

[valid sapphire]

Update https://vxtwitter.com/haaretzcom/status/1734607794161209401?t=fUgJw23GDg42dBti0c4CKw&s=19

[random birch]

https://fxtwitter.com/manniefabian/status/1734486689660150075

[tight kernel]

Hey, I'm not a fan of this post. It seems non-provable from an open source perspective and just designed to rage bait people (not you posting it, but the original poster). In the interest of keeping the channel relaxed I'd appreciate if you could delete it. I don't think we can do anything with this

[random birch]

done

[real lodge]

First https://social-sciences.m.tau.ac.il/sites/socsci.tau.ac.il/files/media_server/social/2023/Findings-November-2023-EN.pdf Second https://en.idi.org.il/articles/51431

[fervent fable]

My impression is that Israelis want Gaza destroyed but hostages freed first. They view Gallant and other "adults in the room" as being behind the war effort while holding Netanyahu responsible for Oct 7 and calling for him to be removed. Israelis in chat please correct me if my impression is wrong.

[nocturne void]

https://english.elpais.com/international/2023-12-11/in-israel-support-for-the-war-soars.html?outputType=amp

[real lodge]

Could you be specific about the protests you are referring to with links? It would be helpful for the Israeli and Arab-Israeli anons in here to provide sources and feedback on them given that the (likely?) majority of members in here do not speak/ Arabic or Hebrew. I think understanding support or opposition from the conflict parties with data is constructive for this channel, and selfishly, is something I am interested in reading and learning about. Edit: tbc not demanding anyone do this btw.

[nocturne void]

the public opinion regarding the responsibility is very wide ranging, from netanyahu being solely responsible to netanyahu being the only one not responsible
most people that I have encountered place the blame on netanyahu as well as many chief of staffs, defense ministers and pms since 2005 that have let hamas become what it is (automatically netanyahu gets most the blame in this case since he was in charge much longer than everyone else)
with regards to the hostages the country is pretty much divided with some saying that the hostages are most important even (somewhat) at a cost to the war effort in destroying hamas while others saying that destroying hamas is of utmost importance and while we must do what we can to get the hostages back the nations survival is more important (claiming that hamas remaining in any form is a direct threat against Israel)
this is all just what I've heard from many Israelis I've talked to over the war

[fervent fable]

What's their view of the West Bank situation with settlers?

[nocturne void]

that's usually divided between right left etc but atm basically no one even cares about what's going on in the west bank besides not wanting any terrorists there
people are just very focused on gaza Lebanon and Yemen

[formal musk]

Hi all, we're starting to enforce our rules and server norms regarding not sharing opinions. We are way past the point of issuing reminders to new members that the point of this server is to share and analyse open source information rather than share personal options and beliefs.

We'll be having out timeouts for people who habitually disregard these constant reminders.

If you're timed out, it's because you've ignored these constants reminders.

[half panther]

A more recent poll by the idi

https://en.idi.org.il/articles/51746

[short needle]

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/israel-takes-fight-against-hamas-to-vast-tunnel-network-2ed3b3f2

[real lodge]

Do you have an unpaywalled version of this article?

[bitter hollow]

https://archive.is/TRqMS

[short needle]

https://t.me/Intellinews/59866

[short needle]

https://vxtwitter.com/N12News/status/1734688217285509297

https://vxtwitter.com/un/status/1734687667567394849?s=46&t=hrjt8iwxulE5iC_E3yIw8A

[half panther]

https://t.me/N12chat/39923

Nir Dvori of N12 is reporting that IDF has launched an air & artillery strike on military infrastructure in Syria and a Hezbollah launcher in Lebanon in response to shootings targeting the Golan and localities near the northern border.

Vid by IDF spokesperson

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/thrasherxy/status/1734739484598567353

Any idea where this took place? https://vxtwitter.com/nournaim88/status/1734756689423778124 #1160132507472244839 message

[pulsar sinew]

this looks like it was designed to outrage, any further information?

[glacial leaf]

I suspect an Israeli soldier filmed it. idk where it was originally posted. Might be worth geolocating.

[pulsar sinew]

Who filmed it wasn't the question, you're sharing an interpretation that's completely disinfo

[glacial leaf]

I'm primarily sharing the footage. The X account's text is secondary to my interest in the post.

If the video is "dis-info" then we must consider AI?

[pulsar sinew]

AI?

[glacial leaf]

I'll check the other channels, thx

[valid sapphire]

Stop, I thought it's the school

[glacial leaf]

https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2023/12/12/like-we-were-lesser-humans-gaza-boys-men-recall-israeli-arrests-torture

[tight kernel]

It'd be helpful if when you're sharing for the footage, you notate it, since the discussions are tense still thank you

[glacial leaf]

Has anyone seen any rhetoric or announcements from Israel regarding conducting war activities during Hanukkah? I wasn't sure if we'd maybe see a decrease in activity for Israel. I'm also not sure if there is any historical precedence for the Israeli military to have a reduction in activity during holidays. Obvi they are conducting activities now.

[glacial leaf]

(no killing or blood in this video) https://vxtwitter.com/localfocus1/status/1734823870224581105

https://vxtwitter.com/localfocus1/status/1734824191847756025

[fervent fable]

https://vxtwitter.com/evanhill/status/1734717736343765195?s=20

[half panther]

https://vxtwitter.com/now14israel/status/1734699755861938467

Same msg from Smotrich in this interview on Channel 14 (the Israeli equivalent of Fox News), saying that we are thankful to the US support but they are pushing us to suicide for many years now, that we cannot allow the creation of a 2nd Gaza in the West Bank, and that the origin of it all is the Oslo accords which we now have the opportunity to correct, Gaza first (referring to the “Gaza & Jericho first” part of the Oslo accords)

[fervent fable]

https://vxtwitter.com/MustafaBarghou1/status/1734911356577419541
(Censored footage):
https://vxtwitter.com/AJA_Palestine/status/1734863082378166776/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1734863082378166776&currentTweetUser=AJA_Palestine
The woman interviewed says that the men (edit: and women and children) were detained by IDF while they were still there, they came back looking for them when the IDF left and found them dead. Man interviewed after her states that they seem to have been shot point-blank.

The school is about two kilometers away from the Indonesian Hospital. Earlier this week a wave of Gazans expelled from schools in the hospital's vicinity also described being witness to summary executions.

[fervent fable]

Detainees also reported that some men were used as shields to test for booby traps.

[tight kernel]

The AJA link keeps failing for me, could you check it?

[fervent fable]

Works fine for me, but I'll "vx" it

[tight kernel]

Works for me now thanks

Is the booby trap claim spoken in the video?

[fervent fable]

No, it's not in this video. In fact I don't remember if I read it or if it was in the other video testimonies posted here.

[old rover]

You need to add links so that others can verify. Please take this into account from now on. Don't post thoughts, find the link first, please.

[short needle]

https://www.axios.com/2023/12/13/us-israel-rifle-sale-delay-west-bank-violence

[fervent fable]

Found it but forgot to post it.
It's in standard Arabic so probably you can machine translate it to verify.
The AJ reporter who covered events from the school says that witnesses at the scene told him the IDF was using detainees as human shields. https://vxtwitter.com/AnasAlSharif0/status/1734191809830465711
The first instance I saw of this claim came from a local reporter a couple of days ago who has been covering the school expulsions on X: https://vxtwitter.com/Almeqdad/status/1733879178133406034?s=20

[real lodge]

https://www.ynetnews.com/article/sjyre5pu6

Also seeing more reports about chemical weapons used on 10/7 https://www.timesofisrael.com/nahal-oz-troops-killed-by-toxic-gas-during-oct-7-hamas-attack-idf-probe-said-to-show/ original source Channel 12.

[plush sun]

Is there uncensored footage of the bodies? Otherwise I don't think there is much osint value to be had here as it's just first or second hand eyewitness statements and a blurry spot on the ground that can neither corrobate nor disprove the allegations.

[fervent fable]

The point of the video is the eyewitness testimony.

[clear olive]

https://twitter.com/QudsNen/status/1734722299784306797?t=cS-qSnHg6t8LkVgXBF4pjA&s=19

That video that claims idf is using detainees as human shields is seen on different twitter accounts but I don't know the source. The source is someone in the idf.

[real lodge]

This time polling Palestinians. 22 November-2 December 2023. https://pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Poll 90 English press release 13 Dec 2023 Final New.pdf

[plush sun]

The videos first 13s segment shows a daytime scene of a group of stripped detainees being slowly marched down a destroyed road. They are surrounded on all sides by IDF soldiers escorting them with guns in the low ready position. The camera pans to the left, showing more IDF soldiers following the group and two Namer tanks about 100m away at the next intersection of the cross road.
The second segment is a 7s night time scene showing a group of stripped men walking down the sparely lit crossroad of the first scene in the direction of the intersection. They get briefly illuminated from the side by a powerful spotlight.
Both scenes are filmed from the same vantage point on top of an armored vehicle , presumably by an idf soldier, who can be heard singing behind the camera.
The video is quite blurry and looks like it has gone through multiple rounds of video compression, making it hard to discern details.

[plush sun]

Imo neither scene shows the use of detainees as human shields as the soldiers in the first scene who are a few meter at the sides and in front of the detainees can still be attacked without hitting the latter and in the second scene, no idf infantery is visible.

[umbral pilot]

Regarding the survey from the perspective of the Palatines. I don’t won’t to get into too much of a discussion about it as it is better suited to the other Israel Palestine channel. But I recommend anyone interested to check out their other work they have conducted.

https://www.pcpsr.org

With that said, per CNN.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/13/politics/intelligence-assessment-dumb-bombs-israel-gaza?cid=ios_app

[hot axle]

https://vxtwitter.com/JSchanzer/status/1735158933117870146 translated: They will not dare because they are cowards and are not ready to lose 430 million dollars, maybe the fate of "Storm 6" in the Red Sea will be like the fate of "Storm 4" in the Mediterranean Sea, with God's help.
11:42 PM · Dec 13, 2023

https://vxtwitter.com/IsraelWarRoom/status/1735151999912755636

Not sure on the source, but been using it: **The issue of the day after the war watched, revealing a growing disagreement between the position of the Netanyahu government and the Biden administration. Who will have security control, who will manage civilian life and if the Palestinian Authority, in one form or another, has a revival? listen to #**עוד_יום >>>https://vxtwitter.com/kann_news/status/1735173374865715622

[pulsar falcon]

Reference to the INS Hanit that was hit by a C-802 ASCM during the 2006 Lebanon War

[cursive wraith]

Perhaps this is a somewhat related testimony. https://t.me/alhakeam/9455 I think this guy is a journalist who was detained at a school a week ago, and recognized in the naked lineup photo. He’s now sharing a story that he was made to wear a explosive vest and a GoPro and forced to enter an underground shaft.

[hot glade]

Hanukkah is not a major holiday in Judaism, there is no expectation to stop working or anything like that so there is no religious reason for military activity to decrease

[fervent fable]

I didn't share that because I had no way of corroborating it. People seem to be taking his Tweets seriously but I'm note too sure that the account is legitimate.

I mean, I didn't share his Tweets claiming the same
I haven't looked at his Telegram (I don't have or use the platform).

[cursive wraith]

I was wondering if it’s true. No legitimate journalist would use that icon either, I guess. And yes, he posted it on X first, and now on telegram.

[fervent fable]

https://vxtwitter.com/ytirawi/status/1735233312568868925?s=20

There is literally no reason for this kind of behavior except to enrage and humiliate Palestinians in the West Bank. This kind of behavior is aimed at provocation and fostering conflict. What is the Israeli occupation thinking?

[hot glade]

slight correction, that's not a hannukah song, its the Shema https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shema_Yisrael

[fervent fable]

https://vxtwitter.com/MSF/status/1735273893042999786?s=20

[real lodge]

This polling highlights the polled populations in Gaza and the West Bank's governance. #1160132507472244839 message

[fervent fable]

https://vxtwitter.com/ytirawi/status/1735320589030535205

This too seems aimed at provocation

[true stream]

Arrests of terrorists with alleged Hamas ties in Denmark, Germany, and the Netherlands:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67715120
https://www.dw.com/en/germany-4-hamas-members-arrested-in-berlin-netherlands/a-67724305 https://www.thelocal.dk/20231214/danish-police-arrest-three-in-major-police-anti-terror-raid 🪙
https://www.reuters.com/world/four-hamas-members-detained-suspected-attack-plans-german-prosecutor-2023-12-14/
Something to keep an eye on?

Suggestion: Forum for discussion => https://discord.com/channels/709752884257882135/1168282793495765022

[pulsar falcon]

worth crossposting on #1168282793495765022

[true stream]

Done, and pointing gently to keep discussion there.

[chrome drift]

The Israeli army issued a statement that the soldiers will no longer go on missions.

[formal musk]

Can you link to this please, and always link to all sources? Thank you

[chrome drift]

https://x.com/IDF/status/1735310854042571211?t=jOdUlJ7zXHs7nAfxKQoPmA&s=33

[formal musk]

Thanks!

[tight kernel]

#eu-uk message

[mint aurora]

the militant visibly shows his hand as act of surrender. and looks like executed.

tw: dead bodies
||https://vxtwitter.com/manniefabian/status/1735358231168323587?s=46||

[formal musk]

The video cuts out, it's hard to tell if that's the same tunnel or the same people just judging by the video alone

I don't speak Hebrew so I don't know what that text says

[mint aurora]

This quoted sentence looks interesting. I didn’t fully understand the “diverse means” part

The Hamas operatives were identified and killed by the Combat Engineering Corps’ elite Yahalom unit, using “diverse means," the IDF says, without elaborating further.

[grim relic]

"Killing/elimination of terrorists in a terror tunnel"
is what the bottom right caption of the vid says
Above each body it just says "eliminated terrorist/terrorists"

[formal musk]

Thanks!

[valid sapphire]

https://vxtwitter.com/IDF/status/1735310854042571211

[mint aurora]

cross posting: #1164712839206936688 message

[mint aurora]

is it the same mosque?
also the sentence should translated.

(changed the link, the new link has better photos)
https://vxtwitter.com/warmonitors/status/1735331618691203277?s=46

[grim relic]

First writing is "we came to eat hummus"
Second one is "greetings from the envelope (Gaza envelope)"

[clear olive]

This was, I believe, first reported 5 days ago
https://twitter.com/Almeqdad/status/1733879178133406034?t=ARx_DYtSla61Z14X-DT_tQ&s=19

[clear olive]

Ah ok sorry didn't see this. You meant it was first posted as the post I mentioned here ?

[cursive wraith]

No, he posted the same story as I mentioned on X first. Sorry I cannot recall when was that exactly. Perhaps he was a source for the post you mentioned.

The same story = the same personal description of the event

[random birch]

https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/12/14/gaza-on-the-ground-clarissa-ward-pkg-intl-ldn-vpx.cnn

https://apnews.com/article/palestinians-detained-israel-hamas-gaza-war-0ecbc338e4024add059b87b38022086d

[mint aurora]

assaulting AA journalist during the live stream in occupied Al quds.

context: it’s friday. in friday muslims goes to mosque and pray. and israel not allowing palestinians to do this religious thing at occupied Al Aqsa. after oct 7. often attacks the journalists who try to cover this

||https://vxtwitter.com/firatgedikoglu/status/1735629988970328249||

[mint aurora]

Another footage of the assault

|| https://vxtwitter.com/anadoluagency/status/1735639062403293267?s=46||

[mint aurora]

Head of Al Jazeera in Gaza, Wael Dahdouh was just shot by the idf.
his family was attacked and killed earlier.

reports says that he got shot from his hand/arm. not critical one

according to AJ:

he is injured while covering a bombing that targeted the Haifa School in Khan Yunis.

tw: injured body
||https://vxtwitter.com/warmonitors/status/1735644443087126825||

[calm harness]

"Journalist Wael Al-Dahdouh and Samer Abu Daqqa from Al-Jazeera were injured as a result of being targeted by a reconnaissance missile while they were covering near the Haifa School in central Khan Yunis. Wael was injured by shrapnel in the hand and waist. " https://t.me/hamza20300/193514

[valid sapphire]

Better avoid warmonitor. He's not credible, no matter if the footage is ok.

[mint aurora]

the footage was on multiple accounts, including AJ

[valid sapphire]

Yes, we try to use such sources. People only reading here could think he's a good source when he's linked, that's def not the case but they don't know.

[mint aurora]

https://t.me/army21ye/1435

houthis anouncing targeting MSC Alanya and MSC Palatium III ships heading to israeli entity with two naval missiles.

[mint aurora]

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:6857243/mmsi:636021123/imo:9785483/vessel:MSC_ALANYA

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:757694/mmsi:636018562/imo:9336165/vessel:MSC_PALATIUM_III

[mint aurora]

extented footage
tw: violence against a journalist
||https://vxtwitter.com/trthaber/status/1735624403881181386||

[fervent fable]

https://vxtwitter.com/MouinRabbani/status/1735461876404728264

[pulsar falcon]

Seems like both ships are headed to Jeddah

[mint aurora]

AFAIK, marinetraffic wont show the full route of ships, shows the first Waypoint (maybe because it's the free version). for example it always shows the destination as Suez if it's going to pass Suez.

[mint aurora]

https://vxtwitter.com/AJEnglish/status/1735667316111663407

[formal musk]

FYI, this isn't always the case--there's lots that goes into what info goes or doesn't go into a ship's tracking data on a site like Marine Traffic

[velvet bison]

IDF: Sirens sounded in the city of Jerusalem.
https://t.me/idfofficial/5925

[clear olive]

https://www.instagram.com/stories/saleh_aljafarawi/3258162189591318645?utm_source=ig_story_item_share&igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng==

Dropped leaflet at about around 9h ago telling the people on Khan Yunis center and sheik nasser to move to "shelters" in designated areas in the leaflet

Dropped fake money reported 2h ago where it says that it will be the last chance for people to provide information to the idf and guarantee themselves a better future and compensation. Reposted by @byplestia who isn't in Gaza anymore, but I couldn't find original account which is print screened in her stories.
https://www.instagram.com/stories/byplestia/3258406742421774688?utm_source=ig_story_item_share&igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng==

[fervent fable]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-urging-us-not-to-talk-publicly-about-two-state-solution-officials/

[calm harness]

https://vxtwitter.com/AJArabic/status/1735726292207563029 (replaced the link with a better source).

[grim relic]

IDF spokesperson announcing the IDF mistakenly killed 3 hostages recently
https://vxtwitter.com/manniefabian/status/1735725621525782674

[valid sapphire]

You can type vx before Twitter so you show the tweet

[proper mantle]

WaPo just ID'd three hostage bodies returned to Israel as two soldiers and Nova attendee Elia Toledano. No explanation of how they died. I guess it's a different set of hostages? https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/15/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-palestine-updates/

[grim relic]

This is a different set that was announced earlier today/yesterday.

No mention on how they died, just that a couple of soldiers died in an attempt to recover the bodies

[fervent fable]

It's widely being reported that it was a drone attack, but also that the surrounding areas were shelled afterwards. Not sure where the determination that it was a drone strike comes from (except Dahdouh's statements himself). If true, it strongly suggests an assassination attempt against the AJ Gaza Bureau Chief.
https://www.voanews.com/a/al-jazeera-reporter-killed-in-gaza-strike-/7400100.html
Especially given the direct strike on his home that killed his family in the middle of the Gaza strip.

[plush sun]

The blood on his arm is from someone fucking up badly at administering an intravenous line. The bandage that gets wrapped around his hand is used to secure the fresh,presumably just set, second iv line in the back of his hand. No other wounds/injuries are visible in the clip.

[brittle arch]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-troops-mistakenly-opened-fire-and-killed-three-hostages-during-gaza-battles-spokesman-says/

[plush sun]

Here is a longer video( media item 2) of the AJ gaza head Wael Dahdoh in hospital. You can see the man in blue fumbling with the cannula and blood leaking out below the thumb of his ungloved hand. https://vxtwitter..com/MansoorAzad/status/1735649202472931371?s=20

[valid sapphire]

You could give him some privacy with ||

[calm harness]

I don't know. I've seen multiple mentions of Israeli forces denying medical teams access to him. I don't see how that is done without infantry,

[mint aurora]

In AJ i remember they said because of the intense shelling the civil defense couldn’t reach the area. And if im not mistaken also civil defense operators got killed in the same incident

[calm harness]

That's an option, continuous shelling for hours.

[mint aurora]

(i dont know how reliable the source is, but there is plenty reliable pro-israeli people following her)

is there any similar stories with hebrew press?

https://vxtwitter.com/ntarnopolsky/status/1735987457705816249

[grim relic]

Not from press yet, most publications don't really publish anything on a Saturday, but some journalists have been publishing this exact thing on Twitter
For example Ynet's military correspondent

https://vxtwitter.com/yoavzitun/status/1735985651563028793

[fervent fable]

https://vxtwitter.com/AnasAlSharif0/status/1735964696774152574

[pastel mountain]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/initial-idf-probe-hostages-were-shirtless-waving-white-flag-when-soldiers-opened-fire/

Immediately following the incident, the IDF sent new protocols to ground troops for the possibility of more hostages managing to flee captivity. The scenario itself, of hostages walking around in a battle zone, was never taken into account by the IDF.

[mint aurora]

The occupation forces ran over the tents of the displaced with bulldozers in the yard of Kamal Adwan Hospital and killed those inside them.

https://vxtwitter.com/ajabreaking/status/1736031134968852905

[valid sapphire]

What shall he do?? Do you want him suspended? And please spoiler your description *undtaeglichgruesstdasmurmeltier

[plush sun]

Ah why can they never take/release any high resolution photographs of what they are claiming to see?

[mint aurora]

Because they are TV journalists and it’s forbidden to air gore. And the cuts from tv always got blurry. (not talking about the instagram story).

also almost every claim made by palestinians has a high res photo. not like the so-called r... allegations

And you can SEE the body pictures at kamal adwan in al jazeeras videos and the stream.

AJ A live stream, after 17:43

[tight kernel]

I am going to be cleaning up some speculation on gore

I think everyone will need to talk about this incident somewhere else - it's really devolving

[plush sun]

So what is actually allowed in here? Posting gore/gory footage is ok, describing it or discussing it is not?

[tight kernel]

see #rules #2 and if you have further questions, or don't approve of my actions, you can DM Giancarlo!

[mint aurora]

I wouldn't share gore or dead children. But people "one person" try to reject things happened. Sorry for sharing gore!
edit: plural -> singular

[tight kernel]

So I don't think the bellingcat discord has a problem where we're not acknowledging the devastation in Gaza. You might have problems with an individual poster, but you can block them.

but I've got 3 DMs about this, and similar situations have happened in Ukraine, and everyone in those channels does not post them and says "do not post that here", for what it's worth.

[fervent fable]

The reason I wrote out an English description is because the video was in Arabic. So for clarification, should I have posted the description of the news report but not linked to it?

[plush sun]

Thanks for linking it, i was just trying again to find it because it's somehow not a default channel but an op-in one.

Rule 2 is a bit confusing but I would understand it as that writing and discussing about gore and dead bodies is ok even without spoilers but links or footage of gore and uncensored dead bodies is strictly forbidden to share. Violence and graphic footage is only Ok with descriptions, spoilers, and a clear research interest.

Okay, off to giancatlo.

[fervent fable]

In retrospect the tweet of the journalist sums up the video report well. Was redundant to do anyways I guess.

[mint aurora]

Is this footage geolocated? (It supposed to be at Juhr Al-Dik according to the description)

tw: battle, injured or killed soldiers
||https://t.me/resistmirror1/1605||

[plush sun]

People lie or simply get things wrong all the time.

That's why Osint and fact checking is so important, you know, to find out the truth.

Otherwise it's just two sides and their propagandists and spindoctors blaring at each other to see who is louder and whose stories can invoke the stronger emotions, ending in a tribalistic hate train with no connection to the actual reality.

[mint aurora]

I don’t want to discuss with you. Your first toxic comment is deleted. The issue is not investigating, being toxic. Anyways have a nice day!

[formal musk]

Please remember that you can block individual users

[plush sun]

Toxic comment for asking where you can see what was claimed in the description of a blurry video?

[tight kernel]

I am going to try to explain what the server is used to vs what is happening in the channels around this conflict. CW: some talk of animals and bodies - I notate when it is graphic.
|| Historically, the server has taken great care to avoid two things - the traumatization of your fellow users and the dehumanization of people who have been killed or injured in a conflict. If you review Bellingcat's work, they spend a good bit of time discussing the impact of traumatic imagery on your own mental health, and how to prevent being impacted by what you witness. That is very very important to us, so things you might see on Twitter or Reddit that are gory don't tend to get posted here, as the users care for each other, and we all know where to find it if we want to see it.

Secondly, every dead or injured or distressed person that you come across is loved by someone. They're someone's entire world. And when a person dies, especially traumatically, their loved ones are going to go through "searching" behavior to find answers. This will likely lead them to social media. They are going to see their loved one in pain or fear, and that is terrible. We can not add to their pain by showing as little as possible, and only what is being used for active research, versus just discussion. When dealing with people, as opposed to bomb craters, etc, higher standards should be met, because a loved one might come across this discussion someday.

The following paragraph is graphic.
In the Russian invasion of Ukraine, a whole Twitter movement focused around gore and cheering on the deaths of Russian soldiers is present. We have expressly forbidden this "vibe" here because celebrating deaths isn't what we do. For a while, there was a lot of talk about "Fat Dogs of Bahkmut" for the same reasons as the cat above. No one brought that discussion here. They knew what we do.||

I hope that helps explain.

[plush sun]

Thank you for taking the time to write that out.

[true stream]

notes to the side that in other discord's channels that deal with conflict zone news, he regularly posts a message with a couple of Bellingcat articles on the issue of Vicarious Trauma and Mental Hygiene, as well as the Wikipedia article on VT, and it often gets pinned to the channels.

[mellow sky]

One of Gaza city’s two churches targeted by the IDF today, several civilians dead. https://www.lpj.org/posts/gaza-16th-december-2023.html?s_cat=1102

[mint aurora]

idf(?) dog with name of aisha operates in gaza.

in arabic/muslim context: aisha is the most common muslim name and the name of the wife of prophet mohammed.

is there any other meanings for that in israel/hebrew or attempt of humiliation

https://vxtwitter.com/n12news/status/1736067161129439519

[pastel mountain]

Based on my googling, Aisha (sometimes with a different spelling) is also a woman's name in Hebrew. Also encountered some song lyrics that seemed to treat it as any woman's name. Additionally, despite the tensions there is still a small number of Arabs and Bedouins serving in the IDF.

[mint aurora]

reporting of another journalist(محمد بعلوشة, Muhammad Baalousha. journalist for Mashad TV, an Emirati tv) being attacked in gaza, according to report he is shoot by an israeli sniper

CW: blood, injured leg, flesh
||https://twitter.com/AJA_Palestine/status/1736096984241418552||

channels:
https://almashhad.com/article/773112298002792-News/604659958161205-إصابة-مراسل-المشهد-في-غزة-محمد-بعلوشة/

[half panther]

You can find it as an Arab name, not a Hebrew one. Here is the data on first names (1948-2021) from the Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics. You will find it under different Heb spellings in the female muslin first names tab (מוסלמיות)

https://www.cbs.gov.il/he/Pages/search/TableMaps.aspx?CbsSubject=שמות

As for the song you mentioned, it’s the Heb version of Cheb Khaled’s Aicha so not an Israeli song. https://youtu.be/Wj3QJEKaFSU?feature=shared

Edit: a recent cover of the song (2021) in Heb & Arb https://youtu.be/RkcpXIA9MH4?feature=shared

[half panther]

There’s still an Arabic speaking Jewish population in Israel and both the original and Heb versions of Cheb Khaled’s Aicha were a big success back in the day. That’s all just context but as for the motivations behind naming the dog Aisha, it’s all speculations (unless you can find an interview with the person who named her).

[mint aurora]

https://vxtwitter.com/Wolltigerhueter/status/1736125624744312921/

[pastel mountain]

In case you didn't check it out already:
https://www.bellingcat.com/resources/2023/11/15/a-new-tool-allows-researchers-to-track-damage-in-gaza/

[mint aurora]

I know. The tweet is talking about the 4 days change in the south of Gaza. And not the whole change

[random birch]

https://fxtwitter.com/evanhill/status/1736073147852423281

[proper mantle]

For context, this is the same journalist who did the report on ||the babies left to die in Al-Nasr hospital.||

[random birch]

https://archive.li/28wzl https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/12/16/usaid-contractor-hani-jnena-killed-gaza/ https://fixupx.com/john_hudson/status/1735996673732591843 https://fixupx.com/pranshuverma_/status/1736087051617865913

[mint aurora]

Occupation forces fire heavily at Kamal Adwan Hospital in Gaza during a press conference by the Ministry of Health

https://vxtwitter.com/AJABreaking/status/1736348583031415010

there is a footage but I couldnt identify (soldiers/militans) the source of the bullets:

AJ Mubasher (the footage is on replay, it's replayed multiple times), timestamp: 11:36/14:36
AJ Mubasher live stream:
TW: the stream sometimes includes blood/gore during the livestream. but there is no gore in the given timestamps
||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eksOMqVMINo||

it was this footage: https://vxtwitter.com/onlinepaleng/status/1736419825566531688?s=46

[mint aurora]

A number of injuries among children and women during the occupation’s targeting of Nasser Medical Complex, Mubarak Department for Obstetrics and Gynecology, and the Care Department.

(Khan yunis)

https://vxtwitter.com/NewpressPs/status/1736480007344492696

[mint aurora]

During the funeral of Hassan Srour in Aita Al-Shaab, an Israeli drone attacked the roof of a house in the courtyard of the funeral.

https://t.me/LebUpdate/35982

cont of the footage, if someone wants to geolocate:
https://vxtwitter.com/HUSSEINSROUR/status/1736716334170308920

[mint aurora]

Hundreds of Palestinians arrested in the Gaza Strip recently have been held for weeks in a detention facility near Beer Sheva. The detainees are suspected of involvement in terrorism, and "Haaretz" learned that several of those detained Palestinians died in the facility. (Google Translate)

https://www.haaretz.co.il/news/politics/2023-12-18/ty-article/.premium/0000018c-7932-d98c-abef-ffb7fcd70000

https://archive.is/FqjIj#selection-775.0-775.484

[ember pond]

Geolocation: https://twitter.com/ChrisOsieck/status/1736733071414612246

[half panther]

The article says that there were 3 detention compounds in the Sde Teman base, each one can hold 200 detainees. It also mentions that a 4th one was recently constructed. If anyone wants to verify, here’s the location: 31.2941667, 34.7116667

[pastel mountain]

https://paxforpeace.nl/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2023/12/PAX_Report_Gaza_Uninhabitable_FIN.pdf

[mint aurora]

yet another targeting of doctors:
https://vxtwitter.com/DrMadsGilbert/status/1736788184841777515

[tight kernel]

Was he targeted specifically or killed in an airstrike? This tweet doesn't say what happened

[mint aurora]

Hours ago the IOF renewed it's shelling on the hospital, killing 26 civilians
Among those killed are Dr. Hani Al-Haitham, head of the emergency department, his wife Dr. Sameera Ghifari, and their 5 children

https://twitter.com/Timesofgaza/status/1736756727658201543

[pastel mountain]

This is a report that uses satellite imagery to map damage to essential facilities and hazardous facilities in Gaza. Lists some of the ways the continuous airstrikes are destroying the environment and the ground (sorry, forgot to press enter before)

[hot axle]

Please ok/check...https://nationalreview.com/news/un-women-deputy-chief-deletes-x-account-after-endorsing-anti-israel-social-media-posts/

[valid sapphire]

That's a strange article. I'm not familiar with the outlet, is it right wing?

[real lodge]

National Review was started by William F. Buckley Jr in 1955.

[hot axle]

I used to watch his interviews as a child not knowing anything, go figure

[hot axle]

Original X source I believe is Isr-fundedIsr-supported, from last time I used them: https://vxtwitter.com/UNWatch/status/1736809468678255063

[real lodge]

The Baldwin - Buckley debate was a very important moment in American history.

[hot axle]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1965_Baldwin/Buckley_Debate I was negative 10ish

[real lodge]

It’s not a great look for the UN, 🇺🇳, the article mentions rules for workers about impartiality https://www.un.org/en/ethics/assets/pdfs/Attachment_2_EN_Putting Ethics to Work.pdf. Being a fan for a guy who promotes the blood libel might be an issue for a UN official given the orgs mission. https://twitter.com/saridug/status/842818288329658370?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

[valid sapphire]

thx. https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/un-watch/

[hot axle]

OK, thought so. But whether sources is -left, -right bias-wise, the incident did occur and recorded as a complaint against impartiality standards as per @real lodge it remains a valid post, no?

[pulsar falcon]

Worth highlighting - the UN Watch is a credible org but with a clear pro-Israel stance

I wouldn't say their bias gets in the way of factual reporting, but it's worth keeping in mind

[half panther]

https://vxtwitter.com/ireallyhateyou/status/1737016971722403946

So it seems like it’s Aisha - איישה (ايشة) and not עאישה (عائيشة). A name given by the European breeders

[mint aurora]

strikes(?) near to unrwa facility, jabalia
https://vxtwitter.com/newpressps/status/1737163854285582547

[calm harness]

I'm pretty sure it's here: 31.530101, 34.49817

[glacial leaf]

In addition: https://www.mediamatters.org/national-review

[fervent fable]

https://vxtwitter.com/AkbarSAhmed/status/1737209732857843828

[mint aurora]

geolocatio, translation and aftermath verification needed:
https://t.me/me_observer_channel/101767

[mortal radish]

Does anyone know where WaPo got the audio from in the beginning? It just says 'pro-hamas telegram': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcSoNyNd428

[half panther]

https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/h1sumeevt

He said: “the 828th Brigade bids Shuja׳iyya farewell. This is where the victory begins. Am Yisrael Chai [‘the people of Israel live’, used as an affirmation of the continuity of the Jewish people]”

In the background you can hear others chanting “may your village burn” - a Kahanist hate slogan often chanted by La Familia, the Beitar Jerusalem ultras.
This chant, along with other anti-Arab hate slogans, is also a common one during the “Dance of Flags”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Familia_(Beitar_supporters'_group)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dance_of_Flags

[valid sapphire]

i maybe have the POV 31.464215, 34.467142, others have to check, i used the first seconds of the ynet video

[mint aurora]

is it same destruction? https://vxtwitter.com/angeloinchina/status/1737488426071429250

[valid sapphire]

I can't tell, it's inside Gaza. Maybe the blue building can be found. Edited, translation error. CW you can hear screaming.

[mint aurora]

israeli attack on Merkaba, South Lebanon.

https://vxtwitter.com/husseinsrour/status/1737532209332978107

according to Al Manar journalist, it's an airstrike
https://vxtwitter.com/alishoeib1970/status/1737526226036658621

📹 Several casualties are being transported from Markaba village in south Lebanon, in the aftermath of the Israeli aggression on the village.
https://t.me/LebUpdate/36097

[ember pond]

I think it is the same. Geolocation is more difficult. Definitely like the location pointed out by @valid sapphire but hard to verify and determine the location of the explosion.

[valid sapphire]

Isn't that first video an airstrike, cause you hear that special sound, and it the second he does it manual? I see the dust clouds fit.

[ember pond]

Could be, but I doubt that it's an airstrike. No expert on this, but I think the sound you hear is just the detonation. Would also be quite large and too simultaneous for an airstrike I think?

[valid sapphire]

Cc @fair magnet

[mint aurora]

https://vxtwitter.com/forensicarchi/status/1737539160636875012

[fair magnet]

It's just a controlled demolition, that sound is just the shock waves.

[mint aurora]

19 prison guards from Katziot prison are suspected of assaulting under aggravated circumstances Tair Abu Assab, a security prisoner resident of Qalqilya, who was imprisoned for many years for attempted murder. According to the suspicion, the group of guards attacked the prisoner, and the day after the attack, his cellmates reported to the staff that they found him lifeless.

(https://www.kan.org.il/content/kan-news/local/659274/)
#1161401676943609907 message

[fervent fable]

UN statement on the witness testimonies of summary execution of civilians in the Al Remal neighborhood of Northern Gaza.
https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/un-human-rights-office-opt-unlawful-killings-gaza-city

[plush sun]

Can't find it on the actual website of un ohchr. The " tag and share " at the end is also pretty weird.

[glacial leaf]

idk what "Relief Web" is, but that could be clarified with an email. This appears to be the official UN OCHA website for Palestine: https://www.ochaopt.org/?_gl=1*jtph7g*_ga*MTk3Njk0NDQ0LjE3MDMxMTkyMzg.*_ga_E60ZNX2F68*MTcwMzExOTIzOC4xLjEuMTcwMzExOTc2OS40MS4wLjA.

If you scroll down to the bottom of the page dedicated to Palestine on the UN OCHA website, there is a hyperlink to the website I linked above: https://www.unocha.org/occupied-palestinian-territory

[glacial leaf]

Actually, if you scroll down to the bottom of the page above, it does list Relief Web as an OCHA site: https://reliefweb.int/?_gl=1*1j6dqgz*_ga*MTk3Njk0NDQ0LjE3MDMxMTkyMzg.*_ga_E60ZNX2F68*MTcwMzExOTIzOC4xLjEuMTcwMzExOTgxMy42MC4wLjA.

[glacial leaf]

Seems like a legit posting in case you thought it might not have been

[dusky river]

I’m not trying to dispute what this site is. I don’t know. (Haven’t checked)

But a site linking to other, legitimate sites, is common for totally fake sites. It means nothing.

The reverse is not true of course. So if the official UN site says it’s legitimate - it probably is.

[glacial leaf]

Right. I basically just double checked that Relief Web is a recognized (and digitally linked) site to the UNOCHA.org site and it is.

[gusty umbra]

Relief Web is a popular site for humanitarian aid workers.

[real lodge]

https://www.ohchr.org/en/latest?field_published_date_value[min]=20/12/2023&field_published_date_value[max]=20/12/2023&sort_bef_combine=field_published_date_value_DESC couldn't find it here either.

[glacial leaf]

Should we expect to see it on every affiliated website?

[real lodge]

I don't know. OHCHR is the UN Body listed and they have an entire section for Media along with a who PR/PIO Office and a extensive list of news release Documents. I contacted them directly to ask. Who knows, maybe they will respond 🤷‍♂️

[valid sapphire]

https://www.unocha.org/we-inform

nothing weird about reliefweb onkel schorsch cc @real lodge

[real lodge]

My inquiry is merely to figure out if this is an official UN OHCHR News Release. It's a really serious allegation and when I Google search the phrase "Al Remal neighborhood, Gaza City," I get the relief web link first and then two articles indexed by Google 2 and then 9 hours later on World Socialist Web Site and Common Dreams as of now. I am really surprised such a serious Press Release isn't on UN OHCHR website.

It's also connected to this article https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/6045 and in each article the details are slightly different. I Waybacked all the sites so I can go back to this later. Unfortunately not all of these sites put timestamps on their articles/posts.

[valid sapphire]

thx, will look at it later

[proper mantle]

ReliefWeb is a UN "product" -- I can't see a scenario in which a fake UN OHCHR press release would get on there (but maybe that's not what you're suggesting?). And IME with refugee issues in Greece, "breaking" UN material was often on ReliefWeb first, because it functions as a sort of a newswire for the humanitarian space.

For example, here's another release from the UN OHCHR, from December 14. Posted first on ReliefWeb. Then a day later in its "proper" location, on the UN's Question of Palestine platform.

[mint aurora]

I'm not sure how hard it is to check the official accounts, before calling everything suspicous:

https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-flash-update-74

On 20 December, the UN Human Rights Office issued a statement on reports of an incident on 19 December between 20:00 and 23:00, whereby Israeli forces reportedly shot and killed at least 11 Palestinian men, and allegedly injured an unconfirmed number of women and children in the Al Awda residential building, also known as the “Annan building,” in Ar Remal neighbourhood, Gaza city. Three related families were sheltering inside this building during the incidents. Initial witness reports circulating through media allege that the men were separated from women and children and were then shot and killed in what may amount to a war crime. The details of this incident are yet to be verified.

https://www.facebook.com/ochaopt/posts/pfbid02VTf5oYh1Ln2YzMN9dTa6DPZLdiLJ8AwHsZsDHSnMRR4rDeeYz2fGfZtXfvFido4Bl

On 20 December, the UN Human Rights Office issued a statement on reports of an incident on 19 December between 20:00 and 23:00, whereby Israeli forces reportedly shot and killed at least 11 Palestinian men, and allegedly injured an unconfirmed number of women and children in the Al Awda residential building, also known as the “Annan building,” in Ar Remal neighbourhood, Gaza city. Three related families were sheltering inside this building during the incidents. Initial witness reports circulating through media allege that the men were separated from women and children and were then shot and killed in what may amount to a war crime. The details of this incident are yet to be verified.

https://twitter.com/ochaopt

[mint aurora]

No? I dont want to argue, but you are misleading with your wrong googlings.

• not using the native language
• limiting your search into "news" tab
• wrong keywords, wrong samplings
• not using date filters
• not using cross search engines

for example:
almost from 1.5 days.

THE EXACT SAME FAMILY (Annan family), Al-Jalaa tower, next to the Watan Tower which is in Rimal

CW: description of the event

||they shoot people at the stairs, the shoot every young men, there is injured women’s there||
||some with cut offed legs and arms||
||please send the ambulance or red cross, or whatever please||

||https://twitter.com/RamAbdu/status/1737203462293602534||

[valid sapphire]

theres an audio of a call for help online, i asked @mint aurora to translate it for me and its so cruel, that we didnt post it yesterday, handle with care listen to it

[mint aurora]

In my opinion (mods opinion should be better), if you have a news that you feel is "suspicious," you should crosspost it to the "disinformation" channel, not the news channel. Accusing a reliable source (in this case, the official source itself) of being suspicious can leave an impression of doubt in the minds of irregular readers.

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/newlinesmag/status/1737854029789794634

[valid sapphire]

Strange thing to tweet today, when his daughter died. Off topic

[mint aurora]

Weeks before Israel’s military raided al-Shifa Hospital, it built a public case it was central to Hamas. A WaPo examination finds those claims fall short.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/21/al-shifa-hospital-gaza-hamas-israel/

gift: ||https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/21/al-shifa-hospital-gaza-hamas-israel/?pwapi_token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJyZWFzb24iOiJnaWZ0IiwibmJmIjoxNzAzMTM0ODAwLCJpc3MiOiJzdWJzY3JpcHRpb25zIiwiZXhwIjoxNzA0NTE3MTk5LCJpYXQiOjE3MDMxMzQ4MDAsImp0aSI6IjY3OWNlZjUyLTQ4YzctNGIxOC1iMWJjLTZjZjgwNmRlYjQxOCIsInVybCI6Imh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lndhc2hpbmd0b25wb3N0LmNvbS93b3JsZC8yMDIzLzEyLzIxL2FsLXNoaWZhLWhvc3BpdGFsLWdhemEtaGFtYXMtaXNyYWVsLyJ9.HpNvv2OuSv3zQg51mFyvbZ_-vydK9uCnBBFlZyoDLE0||

[valid sapphire]

Thx. As expected. Hard to read.

[short yacht]

Was just about to post. Very damning

Kudos to @tawdry apex . Amazing job on the piece.

[glacial leaf]

This includes an edit to the first paragraph on the hospital's Wikipedia page made prior to the "ground invasion" which I pointed out twice in the #Disinfo P/I channel

[sacred bane]

This portion of the Wikipedia page was removed during the current conflict, you can see it here from Feb 2023 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Al-Shifa_Hospital&diff=prev&oldid=1179358496

[dusky river]

The 2014 Washington Post articles describing the Shifa hospital as “a de facto headquarters for Hamas leaders” has come up in my own conversations more than once. This has probably already been explained (maybe it was Hamas and now it’s not? Maybe the old reporting is wrong? Out of context?) but if there is information that could help clarify this I would appreciate it.

Excellent work on the WaPo article - I’m a happy long time subscriber

[sacred bane]

There are links available on the Wikipedia snapshot before the revisions.

Also:

PBS documentary in Al-Shifa hospital was prevented by Hamas members with weapons from accessing areas of the hospital:

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/top-secret-hamas-command-bunker-in-gaza-revealed

Article Hamas commandeered hospital wards in Al-Shifa converting them into interrogation and imprisonment compounds:

https://web.archive.org/web/20230205050631/https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3668018,00.html

Report that Hospital staff made complaints about Hamas presence in the building:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1906608/

New York Times reported on Hamas operating from the building:

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/29/world/africa/29iht-gaza.4.18986499.html?module=Search&mabReward=relbias%3Ar

A Hamas member recounting how he and other Hamas members took shelter in a bunker under the hospital:

https://www.terrorism-info.org.il/en/18321/

Local Palestinian journalist reported Hamas uses a section of the hospital for offices:

https://archive.ph/BKbxc

Amnesty International reported Hamas using the hospital to torture and kill prisoners:

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/

And the WaPo article: https://archive.ph/RjZpA

[fervent fable]

Worth noting that one of trstimonies in the AI report was from a "member of Fatah and former senior PA official", during a serious strife between the two organizations.

I did a deep dive a month or so ago into AI and HRW reports mentioning al Shifa.

Also two of your sources are unreliable or highly partisan - "terrorism-info.com.il", which is essentially an IDF media operation, and Tablet Mag, which is practically a tabloid.

[glacial leaf]

https://youtu.be/nAj2GdFMyuo?feature=shared Video description:

[glacial leaf]

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-12-21-2023-7d9718b32bf0d308c44c7c9e3c4e0deb?taid=65846a0339b70f0001676d76

[sacred bane]

The Tablet Mag story seems well written, not like a tabloid I don't know if they changed. I would love to locate season 6 episode 5 "Gaza E.R" with the original footage. Here is a NYT article mentioning Hamas at the hospital in a review of the documentary episode: https://archive.ph/aQa5n

[valid sapphire]

You have to search for wide angle docu

[fervent fable]

https://archive.is/9UCkY
Isaac Chotiner interviews Danny Danon.

My personal highlight

[umbral pilot]

Ok regarding the Wide Angle episode about the hospital. I have been trying to find a recording of the entire episode, which so far has been unsuccessful. But I was able to find the companion web page for that episode over on PBS website.

They also have some short video clips from the episode on the website as well.

https://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/uncategorized/preview-gaza-er-2/4082/

Edit: linked to the preview of the episode

[half panther]

The links of reports from 2006–2009 are misleading. They are from a period when a series of confrontations between the PA/Fatah and Hamas and other factions took place (timeline: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatah–Hamas_conflict). The PBS docu states it clearly:

“[…] turf wars between Hamas, rival faction Fatah, and powerful families with competing agendas. Our cameras reveal that gun-battles inside the hospital, massive shortages of pharmaceuticals and basic supplies, and unpaid salaries are routine occupational hazards at this medical outpost in the troubled Palestinian landscape.”
(Source: https://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/uncategorized/preview-gaza-er-2/4082/).

The 2008-2009 reports (NYT, ynet article quoting the PA and the PMC article citing witnesses and Human Rights orgs) are also about interrogations, torture and summary executions of people suspected suspected of collaboration with Israel, which is horrible but it says nothing about using the hospital staff and patients as human shields in the fight against Israel.

The link of the "terrorism-info" is a report by the Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center which is a controversial source with strong links to the Israeli intelligence community (see here: https://archive.md/2023.12.22-121957/https://www.haaretz.com/2007-02-14/ty-article/the-terrorist-kills-and-the-bank-pays/0000017f-dbe0-df62-a9ff-dff75c9d0000 more links on wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_and_Terrorism_Information_Center).

The 2 other links (Amnesty & The Atlantic) are about the 2014 operation Protective Edge.

[half panther]

All of these do not answer the question of whether or not Hamas was using the hospital for military purposes when the IDF took control of it in Nov as formulated in the WP article:

Medical facilities are afforded special protection — even in times of war — losing their status only “while they are being used outside their medical function to commit acts harmful to the enemy” […] While the underground tunnel uncovered by Israeli forces after the raid does point to a possible militant presence underneath the hospital at some point, it does not prove that a command node was operating there during the war.

[sacred bane]

There still is the Atlantic article with a Palestinian journalist saying Hamas uses a section of the hospital for offices from 2014. And yes the report by Amnesty International about Hamas torturing people there in 2014.

[half panther]

#1160132507472244839 message

[sacred bane]

Here is also a video of a journalist on France24 alleging a confidential report from a doctor there in 2021 saying Hamas was using Al-Shifa. Speaking on anonymity for his colleges to not suffer a reprisal: https://vxtwitter.com/IsraelWarRoom/status/1726301725655711966?s=20

From 8:30 here: https://youtu.be/1LZ9avl9nDQ?si=lV7xHN5_KEunDZ-e

[half panther]

He actually never named Hamas explicitly, at least not in this clip. Still, it’s about 2021 and doesn’t answer the question of current use.

[sacred bane]

He does in the full video I posted. Described an atmosphere of fear with Hamas at the hospital.

[sacred bane]

Yes this is indicating a pattern of historical use, from 2006 to 2021. It is reasonable to imagine in the weeks of Israel approaching Shifa they stripped the Hamas presence inside the hospital and those rooms with constructed tunnels beneath.

And of course we see videos of Hamas with hostages there on October 7th.

[half panther]

I listened to it 4 times. He says “dodgy-looking non-medical characters” and his interpretation is that “the hushed tones under which this was said was consistent with all the other hushed tones about which Hamas was discussed.”

And Hamas bringing wounded hostages to a hospital where they could receive treatment isn’t a shocking thing or proof of military use.

I’m not saying they never operated from the hospital grounds, clearly they were present there in previous years but we haven’t been shown any evidence of their presence there in Oct-Nov which would make it a legitimate target according to international law.

[sacred bane]

This portion

and here

[sacred bane]

What struck me from this new WaPo article was the omission of these many reports in previous years of Hamas using the hospital. Their own 2014 article states that Shifa was a defacto headquarters for Hamas. This is similar to the scrubbing of the Wikipedia page of all mentions of reports Hamas was using the hospital in previous years.

It kind of paints that the IDF just baselessly imagined Hamas using it on their own, The WaPo could at least have addressed their own old claim if they were not going to address the other reports.

[bitter hollow]

From this report on food insecurity: https://www.ipcinfo.org/fileadmin/user_upload/ipcinfo/docs/IPC_Gaza_Acute_Food_Insecurity_Nov2023_Feb2024.pdf

[tight kernel]

Hey fellas, please remember this channel is for breaking news and longer discussions are better in their own forum post under #1052699912367767684 or in #israel-palestine

[fervent fable]

That's because those claims were repeated on the basis of Israeli claims, with extremely sparse evidence (such as what you posted) which largely consists of a handful of interviews from 2006-2019, weighed against the evidence found and the decade plus of counter testimony and lack of corroboration by hundreds of NGO, press and medical staff who operated from that hospital in 2008 and 2014 wars. They should own up to their previous reports.

The strongest evidence from any human rights investigation I was able to find in dozens of AI, UN and HRW reports are the two individuals who alleged they were detained and beaten by Hamas in an outpatient clinic, and the ex-senior Fatah member who backed them up.

[sacred bane]

Which claim was repeated on the basis of Israeli claims?

[fervent fable]

The 2014 Washington Post claims of a "defacto headquarters" that was linked to earlier, which is unsubstantiated but repeats the Israeli claim of a headquarters.

[sacred bane]

Do you have a link to the Israeli claim that this mirrors?

[sacred bane]

apologies, was discussing the new WaPo article

[fervent fable]

If you mean "seen in the hallways and offices", the piece does not at all clarify if "Hamas leaders" here means the civil government of Gaza or if it means armed fighters. The "headquarters" claim Israel made as early as 2006 is specifically allgeing its use as a military based of operations. The now-scrubbed claim isn't at all substantiated in the article.

[fervent fable]

Didnt see this,

[umbral pilot]

https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/12/1145022

[plush sun]

Can you rename the channel to Israel-Palestine 2023 War News ? It always gets confusing which channel is which

[tight kernel]

Israel-Palestine 2023 War News

Sure, done

[glacial leaf]

https://gaza-hospitals.forensic-architecture.org/

https://vxtwitter.com/forensicarchi/status/1737539160636875012

[pulsar falcon]

https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/report-hamas-rejects-israeli-cease-fire-offer-200766021554

[glacial leaf]

https://lithub.com/these-are-the-poets-and-writers-who-have-been-killed-in-gaza/

[dusky river]

Thank you everyone for your feedback to my question, and I apologize that I clearly asked in the wrong channel.

War reporting is - mind bogglingly hard and of course extremely dangerous. Props to everyone trying their best to share facts.

[glacial leaf]

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/12/23/israeli-strike-kills-76-members-of-one-gaza-family-rescue-officials-say-as-combat-expands-in-south-00133158

[dusky river]

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/how-biden-averted-a-second-front-by-convincing-israel-not-to-attack-hezbollah-on-oct-11-e14a0a3b?mod=hp_lead_pos1

[earnest gyro]

anyone got a non-paywall link for the above wsj article perchance?

[half panther]

||https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-12-23-2023-982fae4d0802b20d2a90423445c9f64b||
AP report: Israel strikes 2 homes, killing more than 90 Palestinians while hundreds have been detained
Contains an image of the wounded

[old rover]

Please spoiler and provide a description, please!

[fair magnet]

https://archive.is/SlsmP

[half panther]

Sorry! Didn’t notice they have changed the preview image, it was the same as the Politico one before

https://x.com/ap/status/1738529929250111698

[old rover]

Yeah they do that a lot at AP, it seems. Thanks for spoilering it.

[dusky river]

https://archive.li/SlsmP

Provided by jedikv in the #israel-palestine channel

[fervent fable]

||https://vxtwitter.com/NourNaim88/status/1738615307994878284?t=jyV-JOknEES97eo1q-S0XA&s=19||
[CW: injured woman and child]
A other specific witness testimony regarding summary executions/ civilian massacres in IDF-controlled regions of the north.

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/ramijarrah/status/1738730802454634947

[fervent fable]

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/12/israel-working-expel-civilian-population-gaza-un-expert-warns

[urban pier]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/house-committee-launch-investigation-un-agency-alleged-troubling-connection-hamas

[glacial leaf]

⚠️ Fox News ⚠️

[fervent fable]

https://vxtwitter.com/IsraelHayomHeb/status/1739300388690338043?s=20

Top Israeli leadership continue to view the depopulation of Gaza as their preferred outcome.

[real lodge]

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-islamic-jihad-reject-giving-up-power-return-permanent-ceasefire-egyptian-2023-12-25/ Hamas/PIJ reject ceasefire and a peace plan “Egypt proposed elections while offering assurances to Hamas that its members would not be chased or prosecuted, but the Islamist group rejected any concessions other than hostage releases”

Plan backed by Qatar too.

[glacial leaf]

"Two officials from Hamas and the Islamic Jihad groups later separately denied what the sources said about the talks."

[grand fiber]

Hi, please keep in mind that this is the news channel. That means that interpretations and commentary should be kept out of here.

[fervent fable]

This is not "interpretation or commentary". I'm explaining why I posted a Hebrew-language article. It's fact.

[grand fiber]

Please stop ignoring moderator instructions. Thank you.

[fervent fable]

Your instructions are not clear. I did not post interpretation or commentary.

[valid sapphire]

https://vxtwitter.com/MairavZ/status/1739364199367618871?t=upe9Y3IasJ1UF7IO4_t7Bg&s=19

[urban pier]

allowing refugees to flee an active warzone is pretty standard, no? I mean, that's the whole point behind the UNHCR

[pulsar falcon]

The official stance of the Egyptian government is that if refugees are allowed to leave Gaza Israel won't let them back (of course there are other factors but this is the prime claimed reason)

[real lodge]

Few additional sources on this development. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-islamic-jihad-reject-giving-up-power-return-permanent-ceasefire-egyptian-2023-12-25/ and https://www.upi.com/amp/Top_News/World-News/2023/12/25/studies-Egypt-sponsored-peace-proposal-vows-intensify-Gaza-war/8921703513278/ along with other good details from AJ https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/25/egypt-sets-out-plan-to-end-gaza-war-free-all-hostages includes other important details. Looking for the unpaywalled WSJ article.

[hot axle]

https://vxtwitter.com/kann_news/status/1738885016849891689 "Hamas' man" in the Security Council: Israel's greatest enemy in the UN - Ambassador Vassily Nebzania, who believes that Israel has no right to self-defense and between the ranks doubts its very right to exist [xpost #russia-ukraine-eastern-europe ]

[abstract hollow]

There is a brief uptick on Dec 1st (when the ceasefire ended), presumably due to the ceasefire allowing Hamas to restock.

But otherwise it appears the data supports that Israel is succeeding in ending Hamas's capabilities to fire rockets, so long as ceasefires allowing them to restore capabilities don't take place.

for context: For years, both sides have tried to show they had the upper hand in the conflict during the ceasefires. Israel hits harder right before the ceasefire starts, and Hamas tries the same thing—the same thing applies when the truce ends. with the context the plot is not showing the "restock"

[pastel mountain]

Instead of "restocking" I'd imagine it's more like "restaging", so moving their stocked rockets to launchers for a bigger first day strike.

[abstract hollow]

https://vxtwitter.com/JoeTruzman/status/1739649060657889695

[abstract hollow]

Suspected assassination in Netanya: a man was killed in a car explosion

https://vxtwitter.com/N12News/status/1739584186397130764

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/ja31ck/status/1739668019771506891

[woeful jewel]

Jack Dev's source:

#1161401676943609907 message

Maybe I'm being harsh but personally I cannot trust QNN

[glacial leaf]

I'm not sure what you mean. His post doesn't seem to have anything to do with the QNN disinfo post you linked to.

[woeful jewel]

QNN is his source

It's in the tweet

[glacial leaf]

Are you disagreeing with his geolocation?

[fair magnet]

It can still be a legitimate geolocation if you don't believe the claim from the commentary posted with the original pictures. Such geolocations can help serve as a good basis to looking into the claim further.

[woeful jewel]

@fair magnet is right. I'm agnostic to the geolocation. The function of what we're looking at I believe we must also be agnostic to

[valid sapphire]

I posted it with another source and geolocated it by myself in #israel-palestine

[woeful jewel]

Ok do we know what it's for, though?

[valid sapphire]

I posted also the burying of the released bodies

[woeful jewel]

But if they were released, I don't understand. Released to the families? Then is it a mass grave IDF made?

[valid sapphire]

I have the video of the bodies the IDF released in blue body bags, that got buried there, but it's one I wouldn't link here.

[woeful jewel]

OK so IDF did not make the graves according to QNN, just Gaza local government presumes they'll need this much grave capacity

[glacial leaf]

You can read in the Google translation in the tweet @ja31ck quote tweeted from @qudsn that "The Municipality of Rafah and the Ministry of Endowments are preparing mass graves to bury the bodies of Palestinians detained by the occupation forces during the ongoing war on Gaza."

[woeful jewel]

Yeah, I got the wrong impression initially but also, again we caught QNN out in a big falsehood before therefore honestly I didn't read it all that closely

[abstract hollow]

I don't think it makes anysense to repeating QNN is a major disinfo network with an unrelated link. Especially it does not making sense when they are showing a footage and the footage is geolocatable. QNN has lesser disinfo rate than the IDF but still we accept the news, verify it and later discredit the news as invidual. You are not helping with your own bias. You are writing the same unrelated lines everysingle time a news shared by QNN. Try to focus on the news and not your own opinions and bias.

[fair magnet]

Should take this to https://discord.com/channels/709752884257882135/1161401676943609907 as this is supposed to be just news #1160132507472244839 message

[woeful jewel]

#1161401676943609907 message

[abstract hollow]

In response, a statement from Perry said:
An unsurprising decision by an irresponsible minister that combines unfounded and baseless claims, a detachment from reality and childishness that show his lack of understanding of the prisons service.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/prisons-service-chief-slams-irresponsible-ben-gvir-for-not-extending-her-tenure/

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/stevesosebee/status/1739496792520053099

[glacial leaf]

Biased source- sharing for video. Has anyone found more info on this? Location, what happened to the Palestinians who were detained and stripped? https://vxtwitter.com/mossadil/status/1739374180703916325

This tweet describes the location as a stadium: https://vxtwitter.com/qudsnen/status/1739315746163859606

[half panther]

#1161401676943609907 message

[glacial leaf]

Thanks! Why is it posted in the disinfo channel?

[half panther]

In order to verify the info. The initial report sent to the channel claimed there have been field executions in the stadium. This claim haven’t been verified.
#1161401676943609907 message
The link you sent as well, although just mentioning the fact that there were executions, is suggestive when it ties the 2 things and readers interpret it as executions in this location.

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/eyeonpalestine/status/1740061170093162661

[random birch]

https://www.kunc.org/2023-12-26/in-gaza-doctors-without-borders-coordinator-witnesses-childrens-extreme-suffering

[urban pier]

Can anyone of the arabic speakers here verify the IDF translation of this call just published?

[warped river]

What's the source for this video?

[old rover]

We always link to the source here, unless it was already posted, in which case we link to that.
Others should be able to check where it came from.

[sick pelican]

This exact video/audio excerpt was published by the IDF on both their Twitter and their Instagram, see

• https://twitter.com/idf/status/1739997352411451497?s=46&t=dVfO6DfLUyDACJc96nGHpQ
• https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1W43BaIdui/?igsh=eDd4amQ3Z2ZzeDMy

Judging this clip using my basic Arabic knowledge, I would say that the spoken Arabic indeed matches the English subtitles. Although I personally cannot draw conclusions on the reliability from this.

idf

“Hamas has their hands on @UNRWA administration workers... it manages UNRWA.”

The people of Gaza know it—it’s time the world knew it too.

Likes

6302

Instagram

[urban pier]

Thanks for adding the links! (got it via telegram so didn't have them at first)

Question - any reason to be skeptical about the reliability of this call? i've seen such recordings published by the IDF in the past but i don't remember any of them refuted

[glacial leaf]

Given that the IDF is an unreliable source, it's smart to doubt the authenticity of any alleged voice recording.

I'm not sure how one would be able to authenticate it using OSINT (or related) skills. One could analyse the audio file, I suppose. And, unless there's any independent confirmation wrt the speakers, it might be challenging to authenticate it.

[civic hare]

I think it's important to have a healthy degree of skepticism when information is released by any of the belligerents in an conflict, since it is an active choice to release something to the public, and any belligerent in a conflict obviously has a vested interest in portraying themselves as good as possible, while portraying the other side in the worst possible light in any conflict.

IDF has released at least one digitally manipulated call in this conflict, which you can read more about here https://twitter.com/earshot_ngo/status/1715383614232494424

I can however not say anything definitive of this specific recording.

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/democracynow/status/1739999221976125829

[hoary wasp]

does this specify which Israeli news outlet says this? I'm tring to find the source of this claim

[chrome drift]

Off hand do not know of a source. The Prime Minister would say so in a address which he didn't so this is probably some in the government suggesting things.

[valid sapphire]

It was Israel Hayom and I maybe have it in my chronic, will look

[random birch]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/use-of-incorrect-munition-in-strike-on-gazas-maghazi-camp-cause-of-high-death-toll/
http://archive.today/G5TGl

An Israeli strike that killed dozens of people in the Maghazi camp in the center of the Gaza Strip earlier this week was carried out using improper ordnance, a military official tells the Kan public broadcaster, with the military appearing to take responsibility for the strike.

“The type of munition did not match the nature of the attack, causing extensive collateral damage which could have been avoided,” the official says.

[abstract hollow]

israeli "defense" forces steals money from jenin https://vxtwitter.com/MayadeenEnglish/status/1740305234713366770

[urban pier]

"stealing" is an opinion. from what i've seen in the past (since 2003) these are legally confiscated and treated as evidence (e.g. maintaining chain of custody etc.) and can be retrieved with a court order - assuming they are not used for money laundering for designated terrorist orgs.

[abstract hollow]

Not an opinion, the cities targeted are under PA rule and not Israels. Since you cannot lawfully takedown or get legal action in someone elses country, it's called unlawfully stealing.

[valid sapphire]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1Y7hNkq5ZD/?igsh=NWhtb3BvbTl3bGc=

eye.on.palestine

The occupation forces raid money exchange shops in the West Bank, destroyed their contents, arrested their owners, and confiscated their money and gold. Via @hishamshaqrah

قوات الاحتلال قامت بأقتحام العديد من محلات الصرافة في الضفة الغربية وتدمير محتوياتها واعتقال اصحابها ومصادرة محتوياتها من اموال وذهب.

Likes

58032

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[urban pier]

by that same logic, US navy seals should be prosecuted for murder of UBL in Pakistan...

[abstract hollow]

Is this a joke? Or you never heard something called International Law? Potentially yes. We had discussing this topic in 2011. With using the same logic you can justify the Russian SMO, but no both are against the law.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/04/bin.laden.legal/index.html
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/osama-bin-laden-killing-legal-international-law/story?id=13538365

[formal musk]

@urban pier @abstract hollow no more back and forth on this please, take it to DMs or otherwise drop it. Thanks

[pulsar falcon]

Fits better in #1161401676943609907

[random birch]

Whoops I was meant to post there, thanks!

[woeful jewel]

I certainly would like IDF to be asked if they have evidence of illegal use of funds. Looting is illegal, of course, and evidence of bona-fide law enforcement activity would be needed

[proper mantle]

They're recording a phone call right now 🙄

[valid sapphire]

I'll keep an eye on that and if Western Union puts out a statement.

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/yasmineelsabawi/status/1740197622676336671

Journalist Hossam Shabat, one of the few journalists covering the Israeli occupation massacres in the north of Gaza, reveals that he received a call from the Israeli forces ordering him to delete the content he published and to stop covering news about Israeli massacres and aggression on Gaza.

[glacial leaf]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-12-29/being-pregnant-in-gaza-unsafe-women-paying-heaviest-price-in-war/103241724

[pulsar falcon]

Worth highlighting that stress can induce pregnancies, so making comparisons to pre-war data is not that simple

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/QudsNen/status/1740505811913416816

An Israeli soldier celebrates revealing the date of his wedding by detonating houses in Gaza.

[fair magnet]

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/the-biden-administration-once-again-bypasses-congress-on-an-emergency-weapons-sale-to-israel
https://www.dsca.mil/press-media/major-arms-sales/israel-155mm-artillery-ammunition
This increase triggered a notification, so they stated the amount of artillery previous delivered. "The original FMS cases, valued at $96.51 million, included four thousand seven hundred ninety-two (4,792) rounds of M107 155mm artillery ammunition (MDE); fiftytwo thousand two hundred twenty-nine (52,229) rounds of M795 155mm artillery ammunition" So that's 57,021 HE 155mm rounds previously delivered.

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/nournaim88/status/1740885902904451347

[glacial leaf]

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/south-africa-launches-case-at-un-court-accusing-israel-of-breaching-genocide-convention/m010o9el7?cid=testtwitter

[urban pier]

https://www.aljazeera.com/program/newsfeed/2023/12/28/israeli-forces-confiscate-cash-during-raids-in-occupied-west-bank

[woeful jewel]

So, according to Israel, illegal use yes

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/ramijarrah/status/1741236264592920758

[supple osprey]

I think this is primarily an infosec story but it has strong ties to the Israel-Palestine war so is it ok to CC it here? Cyber Toufan hacks Israeli businesses, "claim to be Palestinian state cyber warriors" #infosec message

[neat edge]

https://vxtwitter.com/israel_alma_org/status/1741180589422555148

[fair magnet]

https://vxtwitter.com/manniefabian/status/1741509504842273078?s=20

[hoary wasp]

https://vxtwitter.com/manniefabian/status/1741521683951845736?s=46&t=Em0jLeT8wFAMkRtrUQ55wA

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/RamAbdu/status/1741547946305343650

[old rover]

Translation: #1161401676943609907 message

[fervent fable]

https://vxtwitter.com/itamarbengvir/status/1741821404515848688

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-12-31/ty-article/100-200-000-not-two-million-israels-finance-minister-envisions-depopulated-gaza/0000018c-bfe8-d6c4-ab8d-fffc0b910000

[bitter hollow]

Archive link for the Haaretz article: https://archive.is/SYXsA

https://fxtwitter.com/GLZRadio/status/1741347524693127398
A more complete quote of the statement made by Bezalel Smotrich [Minister of Finance and Minister in the Defense Ministry]:
“If we act in a right strategic way, there will be immigration there and we will live in the Gaza Strip. We will not allow a situation where 2 million people live there. If there are 100-200 thousand Arabs in Gaza the whole conversation about the day after will be different. They want to go, they have been living for 75 years and in a ghetto and in misery”
Edit: changed translation from automatic to the one made by human: #israel-palestine message

[pulsar falcon]

https://vxtwitter.com/JSchanzer/status/1742222885987463173?s=20

[bitter hollow]

Google translate for that post by Itamar Ben-Gvir [Minister of National Security]:
"We must promote the solution to encourage the migration of Gaza residents. This is a correct, just, moral and humane solution. We have partners around the world that we can help.
Encouraging the migration of the residents of Gaza will allow us to bring home the residents of the Outaf [Gaza envelope?] and the residents of Gush Katif [An Israeli settlement in Gaza that was removed by Israel as a part of unilateral disengagement from Gaza in 2005]."

[umbral pilot]

Didn't see this posted, but this is from the NY Times on December 30th.

Spoiler for Gore pic included in article

||https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/30/world/middleeast/israeli-military-hamas-failures.html||

Non-paywall link,

Note: Spoiler for Gore pic included in article

||https://web.archive.org/web/20240101011038/https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/30/world/middleeast/israeli-military-hamas-failures.html||

[valid sapphire]

It was deleted cause the former peakview had a gore picture.

[umbral pilot]

Yeah, see it now, sorry about that

[valid sapphire]

A few will probably have missed it around the celebrations so a good reminder

[half panther]

A human translation here: #israel-palestine message

[bitter hollow]

Continuation of the ethnic cleansing topic:
https://fxtwitter.com/StateDeptSpox/status/1742282740085424163
Matthew Miller [US Spokesperson]:
"The United States rejects the inflammatory and irresponsible statements from Israeli Ministers Smotrich and Ben Gvir. There should be no mass displacement of Palestinians from Gaza."

https://fxtwitter.com/itamarbengvir/status/1742291293307310186
Itamar Ben-Gvir [Minister of Nat Sec] (google translate):
"Really appreciate the United States of America but with all due respect we are not another star on the American flag. The United States is our best friend, but first of all we will do what is best for the State of Israel: the migration of hundreds of thousands from Gaza will allow the residents of the enclave Gaza Envelope to return home and live in security and will protect the IDF soldiers [as well]."

[half panther]

https://www.kikar.co.il/political-news/s6l4s8

The full speeches (Heb) of Ben Gvir (video and transcription) and Smotrich (transcription)

[valid sapphire]

Can we mark this kind of rhetoric with a hashtag or something so that it doesn't get lost in the channels. It could be very important in the future.

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/NourNaim88/status/1742211966502928522

[pulsar falcon]

might be worth a separate thread for it or something

[valid sapphire]

Yes, you're probably right. This is heading into a political change and it's easier when it's collected elsewhere, too

[forest holly]

Can upload the OpenAI translation if you like, just 22mb

[half panther]

They transcribed both speeches. I didn’t check the Google translate but if there’s something that looks off or that you don’t understand, let me know and I’ll translate that part

[forest holly]

Oh i didn't spot the transcriptions

[glacial leaf]

https://vxtwitter.com/nournaim88/status/1742577275004911991

[urban pier]

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/02/us/politics/gaza-hospital-hamas.html US IC confirm hospital used by Hamas and PIJ as HQ

[umbral pilot]

Non paywall link via the wayback machine.

https://web.archive.org/web/20240103001852/https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/02/us/politics/gaza-hospital-hamas.html

[atomic ridge]

I think under most circumstances this would be considered pretty weak and it's surprising it warranted a whole story. Basically saying they've updated their earlier assessment with current information and still believe it, but there's no actual new evidence.

[half panther]

Of course he’s not calling for actual investments. This is another one of their “jokes” about the destruction. He’s making reference to urban renewal type of plans called פינוי בינוי (“vacate & rebuild”, a sort of contract between developers and apartment owners who get an apartment in the new building instead of their old one). The subtext is that they are evicting the Palestinian by demolishing their houses so that Gaza could be recolonized.

[abstract hollow]

If you read the article there is nothing new confirming it, rather they "believe". (the only confirm came at 14 november). and the last assesment rejects the confirmation "The new American intelligence assessment says the Israeli assessment was at least partially correct". The israeli assesment was "Tora Bora of The Times".. (https://www.edwardjayepstein.com/2002image/netherpopup.gif) And they was wrong, without any confirmation

A senior U.S. intelligence official said on Tuesday that the American government continued to believe that Hamas used the hospital complex and sites beneath it to exercise command and control activities, store weapons and hold “at least a few hostages.”

American intelligence agencies obtained information that Hamas fighters had evacuated the complex days before the multiday operation, destroying documents and electronics as they left, the senior intelligence official said.

While the spy agencies provided no visual evidence, a U.S. official said they were confident in their assessment because it was based on information collected by Israel and America’s own intelligence, gathered independently.

The new American intelligence assessment says the Israeli assessment was at least partially correct that some hostages were held at or under the complex. But those hostages appear to have been moved as Hamas evacuated.

[abstract hollow]

street executions
spoiler-warning dead bodies
||https://vxtwitter.com/s_m_marandi/status/1743702433908642289||

[abstract hollow]

https://vxtwitter.com/manniefabian/status/1743712873421946986

[fair magnet]

You need to spoil the whole post if you're going to embed or the embedded image won't be spoilered

[old rover]

Huh? It's not spoilered for you?

[fair magnet]

No just the text, but I am on mobile so maybe it's different. I can DM you what I see

[old rover]

Yes please.

Make sure you leave the channel and come back in before you take it, just to make sure.

[fair magnet]

Nevermind it's spoilered. I must have hit it scrolling.

[valid sapphire]

Strange pic

[half panther]

https://vxtwitter.com/avischarf/status/1743694921775644840
Haaretz editor Avi Scharf:

Assuming it's not fake, and Hezbollah usually doesn't fake, it delivered a very accurate strike today on IDF [targets] in Meiron, in what appears to be a combined attack of rockets, drones, and a precision cruise/anti-tank, [fired] from the Lebanese village of Yaroun, 10 km away.
He is retweeting the video published by Hezbollah but there are other videos going around that appear to be from the Israeli side of the border.

[old rover]

Can you add some kind of description?

[half panther]

Done

[civic hare]

https://theintercept.com/2024/01/04/cnn-israel-gaza-idf-reporting/

If this is too meta(reporting about reporting) let me know and I'll delete the link.

[glacial leaf]

No, not too meta. This is important.

[grand fiber]

However, do note that it's The Intercept and keep that in mind when reading it.

[civic hare]

Is The Intercept a source of ill repute?

[valid sapphire]

They remodeled after Greenwald, so I don't know what's the problem?

[neat edge]

You’re aware that The Intercept posted an article where they referred to this server (specifically the Nordstream channel) as a groupthink operation?

[glacial leaf]

link?

[neat edge]

theintercept.com /2023/06/28/nord-stream-pipeline-bomb-investigation/

[glacial leaf]

I'm unfamiliar with the topic. Is the description inaccurate?

[neat edge]

It’s off topic so let’s not stray any further, but The Intercept is very much within the fold of “dodgy sources” that should be read with a very substantial amount of scepticism.

[neat edge]

If you want to ignore what we did and insult fellow server members? Sure.

[glacial leaf]

Alternative link: https://web.archive.org/web/20230702102210/https://theintercept.com/2023/06/28/nord-stream-pipeline-bomb-investigation/

[neat edge]

Broke the old link because I’d rather not give them clicks, 🙂

[real lodge]

I too don’t want to derail this channel but will remind the members that Reality Winner was sentenced to five years and three months in US Federal Prison in part because of the gross incompetence of The Intercept and its editors. Happy to take this to #chit-chat or whatever other channel is best for it.

[neat edge]

https://vxtwitter.com/idf/status/1743777262275641410

🧵 on tonight’s IDF spokesman briefing, it’s obviously coming from one of the belligerents, so it will obviously be coming from their perspective, but it’s an update on the Israeli operational situation.

They announce they have killed the commander and deputy commander of a Hamas battalion by an IAF air strike.

Apparently that Hamas battalion was behind the Be'eri massacre that killed 130 people.

[hollow turret]

Curious if the IDF has published any actual evidence of tunnels under Indonesian or Kamal Adwan, as they suggest in this post... https://vxtwitter.com/IDF/status/1743777617679941646

[valid sapphire]

No,huh?

[neat edge]

See above.

[valid sapphire]

Prevent harm and protect the civilians is not what I see daily from the ground videos

[neat edge]

https://vxtwitter.com/manniefabian/status/1721168531612389770?

Nothing conclusive yet.

https://vxtwitter.com/sfrantzman/status/1739355142862873045

Israeli forces occupied the area of the Indonesian hospital (footage in that tweet) in recent days, so presumably they’d know first hand?

https://vxtwitter.com/yaaricohen/status/1743707851678171159

IDF Spokesman also released an updated photograph of the leader of Hamas’s military wing, the Al-Qassam brigades.

[abstract hollow]

son of the most important journalist in gaza, which is also a jorunalist hamza al dahdouh (son of wael al dahdouh) is killed in Al mawasi.
(the first result on twitter, but the event is still on live stream on al jazera)

warning: courpse of a journalist
||https://vxtwitter.com/ShaykhSulaiman/status/1743937704688050601||

footnote1: Al mawasi was the declared ultimate safe place by the idf since the start of the war (i guess its disputed, https://twitter.com/ChrisOsieck/status/1743964785606091077/photo/1)
footnote2: this is the third time the idf attacks this journalists family

[abstract hollow]

"targeted assaination on journalists"

spoiler, violence, corpse
||https://vxtwitter.com/AryJeay/status/1743934397189922993||

[unborn nymph]

We have been following all the tunnel stories very closely, but there's nothing related to the Indonesia hospital

[abstract hollow]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/01/07/israel-hezbollah-lebanon-blinken/

In private conversations, the administration has warned Israel against a significant escalation in Lebanon. If it were to do so, a new secret assessment from the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) found that it will be difficult for Israel Defense Forces (IDF) to succeed because its military assets and resources would be spread too thin given the conflict in Gaza, according to two people familiar with those findings

[half panther]

Can you please add CW? The video is very graphic

[abstract hollow]

interestingly, the "islamic resistance of iraq" claimed the attack on haifa
https://vxtwitter.com/resist4ever__/status/1744050019622142271
https://vxtwitter.com/Lebnews2004/status/1744026963243606164
https://vxtwitter.com/PressTV/status/1744052457452216393

(haifa has 355 km distance to the closet point in iraq)

however, the time does not match, the video is night-dark, and the explosion is evening-ish

[neat edge]

The Islamic Resistance in Iraq's post says they did it in "the past few days."

https://vxtwitter.com/fab_hinz/status/1744069285373161737

[abstract hollow]

daily war crimes:
warning humilation
||https://vxtwitter.com/clashreport/status/1744297983561081027||

[abstract hollow]

BEIRUT, Jan 8 (Reuters) - An Israeli strike on south Lebanon on Monday killed a senior commander in Hezbollah's elite Radwan force, three security sources told Reuters.

The security sources identified him as Wissam al-Tawil, the deputy head of a unit within the Radwan force. They said he and another Hezbollah fighter were killed when their car was hit in a strike on the Lebanese village of Majdal Selm.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-strike-lebanon-kills-senior-commander-elite-hezbollah-unit-security-2024-01-08/

[hoary wasp]

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67906496?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=659be7c4b255e96a9e4bc531%26Hezbollah confirms death of senior commander Wissam Tawil%262024-01-08T12%3A20%3A47.045Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:5455d47b-8d50-46a2-8c32-269234617f08&pinned_post_asset_id=659be7c4b255e96a9e4bc531&pinned_post_type=share

[valid sapphire]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C11rwsqh3vt/?igsh=MXNpNzFzMW1mam1pNA==

almashhadmedia

وزيرة خارجية ألمانيا "أنالينا بيربوك: لا يجب أن يكون هناك احتلال إسرائيلي آخر!

#المشهد #اخبار_المشهد #المانيا #germany #اسرائيل #غزة

Likes

310

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Annalena Baerbock about Gaza

[neat edge]

https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/en/newsroom/news/-/2639428

The above link is her full statement.

Here’s some other quotes to provide further context to the statement:

To achieve this, Gaza must no longer pose a threat to Israel’s existence. Hamas must lay down its arms and Hezbollah and the Houthis must cease playing with fire.

For its part, Israel, which has the right and the duty to defend itself against terrorism, must afford civilians much better protection in the course of its military action.

[fair magnet]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/on-gaza-civilian-evacuation-road-idf-uncovers-largest-hamas-rocket-factory-to-date/

[bitter hollow]

The last paragraph: "As remote as this may seem right now, Israelis and Palestinians will only be able to live side by side in peace if the security of one is part and parcel of the security of the other. This will only succeed if each acknowledges the other’s suffering. We must leave no stone unturned on the path to a two-state solution."

[neat edge]

So in short, no change in the policy that the US and European countries have preferred for years, a two state solution and the demilitarisation of Palestinian terrorist groups.

The statements by Minister Baerbock were covered in full by German and other foreign reputable sources, that post by “Al Mashhad media” is close to disinformation when it’s cut to only show part of her statement, and the caption is not in line with anything she said.

Her statement is just a restatement of the preferred two-state solution with security guarantees for Israel, no change at all.

[neat edge]

https://vxtwitter.com/cogatonline/status/1744438365917773896

[neat edge]

Lot of boring signs - i.e. equipment room, drying room, etc - but this one stood out to me, "Mujahid Martyr Mahmoud al-Otal room"

Mahmoud al Otal was killed by an airstrike in 2017, it seems.

Also, I was trying to figure out what the bottom left of the signs said, because it looked like a logo of some sort.

OCR translation gives me "Military Industralisation Corner (?) - Department of Chemistry - AP Department"

[grand fiber]

This is something that someone with Arabic skills should take a look at. Luckily, we have a few here.

[neat edge]

Was about to write that :P.

Would definitely welcome someone who can read Arabic, would be interested in getting to the bottom of what that is, also the logo.

The logo looks quite similar to Hamas' military wing (IQB) - green flag with Islamic text in Arabic, al-Aqsa mosque/Temple Mount in the background.

[real lodge]

The logo with the red gear?

[neat edge]

Yep.

[fervent fable]

https://archive.is/Uz8XM

[orchid nymph]

"This is the room of Mujahid Martyr Mahmoud al-Otal"

in the corner: "Military equipment manufacturing corner"
Then the part below that is hard to read, something like [...] section/office. The first part is hard to read.

[abstract hollow]

https://vxtwitter.com/manniefabian/status/1744671957423972798

The blast occurred when explosives intended for demolishing a tunnel detonated. The circumstances are under investigation.