How would you go about describing a new species?

[odd sky]

:o

[round crow]

https://entomologytoday.org/2014/11/15/how-to-describe-a-new-species-getting-into-the-spuh-nov-club/

[odd sky]

bet ty

[odd sky]

why its genitalia

[round crow]

It's one of the most common and effective ways to distinguish between different species when you have insects that look very similar

[odd sky]

do u have any examples? its a bit weird to think that the only tell is that the genitalia is different

also how would you actually go about checking that on a dead specimen? I'd imagine its extremely difficult and unreliable to try to catch them mating on camera

[round crow]

I do not have any examples atm, but I could definitely try to look up something tomorrow. To check that on a dead specimen you have to carefully dissect it.

https://nl.pensoft.net/article/27831/

The genital organs is something that would be more constant that the general appearance of the insect

So if you have two beetles that look identical or very similar on a picture, you would have to maybe dissect them and check their genital organs to confirm they are in fact the same species (or not)

But no all of us have access to specimens or the skills to dissect insect genitalia. So I would argue that what we do in the #id-request-must-include-location channel is perfectly valid despite the disagreement on what "identification" means

[odd sky]

ic ic

gotcha :0

how would i go about purchasing (or finding) other species part of the same genus to compare? bc im still caught up on that

[odd sky]

also yeah LMAO, i'm just interested in going a step further because my area is really biodiverse, and i've found a lot of things that don't seem to match up with any other species in the area (mostly hymenoptera)

also how would u go about dissecting em?

[round crow]

Mmhm for that I would probably ask an entomology department at your local university. I am sure that they are textbook examples, but I am not an entomologist or a taxonomist. If you want to check those specimens in your area, the best thing to do is try to find an expert that can either help you identify them or you can send the specimen to them.

[round crow]

I am guessing that this will be different depending on which family are you talking about, but I have never done it so I would not know. I am sure there are either books/classes about it thought.

[odd sky]

ic ic

[odd sky]

hmmm, idk about doing the last part that seems lame

[kind night]

for many betles you just open the abdomens end and take out the penis with thongs

[odd sky]

my issues with beetles mainly though is finding other specimens to compare them too to actually prove it's different

[kind night]

Look up for breeders or look up the geographic extension of different species and collect regardingly. It's as easy as that.

[kind night]

why do you need other specimens to prove?

to identify a new taxon?

[odd sky]

that's my hope, but you'd need other specimens anyways no? to find out if its actually different or not

[kind night]

uhhhyes

no

Really depends on case

[odd sky]

hmm i am confused

[kind night]

Bro :T

[odd sky]

i expected describing a new species to be straight foreward but i still don't know if i need other specimens for comparisons

🫓

[kind night]

If you find specimens that don't fit any other species and they are ideally far from the genus's range, boom new species

[odd sky]

how would i know if they dont fit any other species without specimens for comparison though

[kind night]

keys

[odd sky]

and how would i know what species to use as comparison

[kind night]

Identification keys

[kind night]

the most closely related ones therefore the species from the genus your new species belongs to

Do you understand?

[odd sky]

hmm

what are identification keys

[kind night]

If you don't know how to identify animals maybe you should say that beforehand

That would help a lot

[odd sky]

[kind night]

Jesus Christ

most common is the dichotomic key I believe

also haven't we gone through this stuff before? I answered this kinda question a few months back

In the end your new specimens will be compared by an expert side by side to known species to confirm their status as new taxon.

Not neccesarily that's done by yourself

https://www.edrawmax.com/templates/1002521/

https://www.insectidentification.org/insect-key.php

@odd sky

[odd sky]

ic ic

[round crow]

Just to add to this conversation: even if you think you have found a new species, this needs to be confirmed by experts. That is why I think it is best to contact them. Most of them are really enthusiastic about non-experts finding specimens that might be something new

[odd sky]

ouu oki :0

how would i go about working towards being an expert

[round crow]

In my opinion the way to do that is do join an entomology department at a university.

[kind night]

Learn about species

Knowing a lot of species from the top of your head, their associated habitats and ranges is a good start.

Furthermore you should be able to ID them.

[sturdy mirage]

I suppose one could say I'm working towards being one. Since I like bugs I'm majoring in biology and trying to spend my time in undergrad as a volunteer/intern in entomology labs at my uni

Moreover, afaik the way to describe a new species involves publishing an article with a description in a scientific journal as well as depositing the specimen in a museum/entomological collection

so you'd probably need to contact a specialist at some point since they curate collections

[sturdy mirage]

In a lecture I watched a few months ago they said that it's because even minor changes in its morphology can cause reproductive isolation