how did you negotiate bloomberg?

[wispy root]

i'd love 200k first year but i'm afraid it's gonna be too muchh

[fading sail]

do you have competing offers?

[wispy root]

yep from msft

[molten raptor]

I had 0 competing offers and got 200k man

[fading sail]

yeah just aim high, mention the other offer and see what happens

[stiff blade]

if u don't mind me asking, what's your TC breakdown for msft? i also have an offer and i think they lowballed me bigtime...trying to negotiate

[wispy root]

did you just "hey i want more money"?

[molten raptor]

So the initial salary is : 145k base, 20k annual and 10k reloc

[stiff blade]

wtf my base was $112k

GTFO msft

[molten raptor]

I said I wanted to get 170-180k base and that I'd sign-on immediately if they answered

[molten raptor]

naw its for BB

[stiff blade]

oh what's that

[molten raptor]

Bloomberg bruh

read the name of the thread

[fading sail]

more like "hey i'm really interested in working here but i'm a little concerned about the comp, can we work together to bring it up a bit?"

[wispy root]

same 120 base, 120/3.5 stock and 30 sign on

[fading sail]

is 120 base for nyc?

or redmond

[molten raptor]

I negotiated like that up to : 153k base, 20k sign-on, 22k annual and 10k reloc

Adding up to 205k total

[fading sail]

without offers?

[molten raptor]

Yeah

[fading sail]

that's dope

[stiff blade]

congrats dude

thats impressive

[molten raptor]

Thanks guys

NYC hopefully doesn't tear a hole in my pocket

[fading sail]

with that you'll be fine

[molten raptor]

But @wispy root to answer your question. You really need to take a long haul approach. Mention you have a competing offer with Microsoft but for the love of god don't say any numbers

Just say it's "competitive"

if they hardball and force you to give numbers

[fading sail]

^

[molten raptor]

then say "you're not allowed to since it would be a breech of trust and that you'd do the same with them and keep their numbers private as well"

Negotiating once will get you the sign-on bonus. That's just them initially lowballing you

The second negotiation is when you can raise your base salary to 160k+

[wispy root]

did i fuck up when i kinda mentioed the numbers? like i did during the hr interview, but for the offer i got another number and during the offer call she asked abt the number, and that time i said i didn't remember

*aanother recruiter

[molten raptor]

what numbers did you mention?

[wispy root]

the msft numbers

[molten raptor]

Ah shit really

that's a bit bad yeah

[wispy root]

why 😦

i did mention seattle is a little ccheaper

[fading sail]

think that's fine for msft

[wispy root]

but the current recruiter doesn't know

[molten raptor]

To be transparent -- they'll definitely tell the other recruiter your Microsoft numbers if that's what you're asking

[wispy root]

well i did say that should match msft but adding nyc tax and col

[sage plank]

@molten raptor Actually, I don't think Bloomberg negotiates their base for NG to 160

[molten raptor]

Their NG goes up to 165k base at max

There are a few data points in the salary sharing thread

[fading sail]

that's still very good

• bonus you can get to 200

or close

[molten raptor]

Yeah in all honesty it should be fine

Wait do you actually want BB?

[sage plank]

Oh wow I didn't know they went THAT high

That's jumping into Two Sigma numbers

[molten raptor]

If you're genuinely wanting to dive into BB then just pull the "I'll let go of Microsoft and sign-on immediately if you raise my base compensation by 20k"

[wispy root]

yea cuz nyc and i was at msft for 2 summers and the team jsut didn't excite me

just curious, but you'd choose msft?

[molten raptor]

yeah it's pretty nuts but they don't give stock so that cancels it out

[molten raptor]

I'd leverage Bloomberg comp for Microsoft and work at Microsoft personally

[sage plank]

Well, I'd argue cash compensation is better than stock

[molten raptor]

but that's because I want to end up in the Mojang team

[sage plank]

You can use the cash to buy a portfolio of tech stocks rather than getting golden handcuffed into holding 100Ks of one company's stock

[fading sail]

bloomberg has better office presence in the city tho if you care about that

microsoft here is peanuts

[molten raptor]

True but BB is a hyper flat org with only 2 "roles". SWE and senior SWE. You don't get any stock bonuses for being promoted or anything. The real money in tech is the stocks

[molten raptor]

Oh shit really? I actually didn't know that

When you say office presence

wdym

[fading sail]

there's like one microsoft office near times square, gross area and pretty small office

bad views too

[sage plank]

BB has a huge tower in midtown with amazing views of Manhattan

[fading sail]

^

if you wanna be in nyc bb is the move as far as social/office goes

if you're wfh ig it doesn't matter

but with bloomberg at least you could still meet up with people

no one from microsoft works here really

[fading sail]

it's also up in lennox hill pseudo-upper east side

really nice area

times square is a stinky butthole

[sage plank]

I think the main differentiator between choosing Microsoft and Bloomberg is if you want to work on "product" type engineering vs working on finance-y and HFT-tangential stuff

So if you're a product guy, you'd probably be happier at Microsoft is my understanding

[fading sail]

very team dependent, lots of services in msft too

like if you go to azure you're likely not gonna be on a product

but yeah agree in general

[sage plank]

@fading sail Are you in FAANG/quant in NYC?

[fading sail]

about to move from msft -> two sigma

but yeah in nyc

[sage plank]

How was the 2S interview? And had you interviewed there before and not been successful?

[fading sail]

nah first time interviewing and honestly not bad at all

on par with faang mostly

[sage plank]

I've heard the quants have temporary blacklists for unsuccessful candidates is my reasoning for asking..

[fading sail]

i actually asked about that and they said it's a standard 1 year, at least at two sigma

i didn't interview elsewhere so idk

[sage plank]

I think there's a lot of lore surrounding the quants, so I'm sure half of the stuff I "know" about them is probably false

[fading sail]

yeah it's a bit of a mystical space in tech

[sage plank]

Why did you leave MSFT

[fading sail]

but i think most of that is bc they're a lot smaller so they're more picky with hires

but really the actual content is pretty faang-like

uh idk my team is cool but i'm wfh now and want a real office and don't wanna leave nyc

2s reached out so i thought fuck it

[sage plank]

They reached out to you? Must be nice lol

New grad - cannot relate

[fading sail]

yeah was nice, i'm 1.5 yoe though it's a lil different from new grad

[sage plank]

Is that a common thing?

[fading sail]

yeah i have recruiters in my linkedin inbox constantly

like 3 a week or smth

[sage plank]

From super high tier companies like that??

[fading sail]

hrt yext and amazon this week

yeah

[sage plank]

Jeez

[fading sail]

it gets a lot cushier after you get into industry

[molten raptor]

congrats on 2S

[fading sail]

ty

[sage plank]

I would say I wish I were 1.5 yoe, but college is nice minus the recruiting

[molten raptor]

How do you feel about working on products in BB? I wanna get in a team that's hopefully as product heavy as possible

[sage plank]

But I guess now we're all done with recruiting anyway

[fading sail]

i loved college

[molten raptor]

didn't get to experience 2 years of college

so idek anymore

[fading sail]

did you sign somewhere?

[sage plank]

Most likely going to sign with Bloomberg

[fading sail]

idk much about bb internals

[fading sail]

ey dope

[sage plank]

Congrats on Two Sigma by the way - i don't think I actually said congrats lol

[fading sail]

oh yeah nw ty

[molten raptor]

Have you gotten your offer yet?

[molten raptor]

What was your 2S comp if you don't mind sharing

[sage plank]

@molten raptor Yes I have!

[molten raptor]

Nice! What's your comp looking like? Have you negotiated

[fading sail]

i'm getting the written offer tmrw so not sure yet but got the sense from recruiter about 200 base 100 bonus 50 signing

[molten raptor]

JESUS

And you're obviously negotiating right

[fading sail]

and couldn't negotiate bc didn't interview anywhere else

which was kinda dumb

[molten raptor]

Ahhh that's dumb but I mean 350k is fantastic

[fading sail]

yeah im not unhappy with it just a good lesson for the future prob could have hit 400

[sage plank]

Unfortunately, I am not exactly comfortable sharing details because I worked with my recruiter to get a non-standard type of offer but the total comp my first year is 220

[fading sail]

that's lit

[sage plank]

And that is incredible Ben

[molten raptor]

that's crazy congrats dude

[sage plank]

@molten raptor Thanks!

[fading sail]

but it's L2 i'm not sure they go that high for new grad

[molten raptor]

how do you even begin to work on a non standard type of offer lmao

[molten raptor]

They go up to 250k for new grad on levels

[fading sail]

gotcha

that's still nuts

[molten raptor]

This year was probably the most competitive year for new grads in a while imo

so the comps are fat

[sage plank]

We just got on a call for a long while and talked out some details

I had a couple competing offers and interviews ^

[molten raptor]

That makes sense

Your sign-on must've been fat

Have you thought about where you'd wanna be in NYC?

[sage plank]

Yogi do you mean it's competitive to get jobs or to get talent

I'd say it's both right lol

[molten raptor]

Both lmao

I'm thinking of living in Midtown but the rent is so high

would rather get a high rise in long island city or something

[fading sail]

i'm in east village rn it's nice for young peeps

[sage plank]

Not sure where I'll be in NYC. According to NYC friends, its impossible to shop for apartments this far out

[fading sail]

yeah true

[molten raptor]

Have you been to LIC?

[fading sail]

nope that's in queens right?

i'm not usually over there

[molten raptor]

Yup

[fading sail]

usually just manhattan and brooklyn

[molten raptor]

It's right off the bridge near Queens Plaza

Ahh gotcha

It's 10mins away from the lexington office for BB so I'm heavily considering that area

[fading sail]

i might move to brooklyn next year for a nicer pad

[molten raptor]

since the rent prices are way lower

[sage plank]

Take this with a grain of salt, but apparently social/dating is way easier in Manhattan

[fading sail]

that's smart

[molten raptor]

Got a girlfriend already and she wants a high rise

so options are limited haha

[fading sail]

yeah nrw/f drops you right there

would be a good commute

[molten raptor]

we're ideally looking for a 2 bedroom under 4k rent but realistically it's probably gonna be a 1 bedroom

[sage plank]

Like a Hell's Kitchen luxury high rise lol?

[molten raptor]

I highly suggest Jackson Park

[fading sail]

you can prolly get 2 bd for 4k there

[sage plank]

I think that's going to run you way more than 4k...

[fading sail]

hell's kitchen is ok

not great

a lot of my boa finance friends live there

[molten raptor]

Yeah you wanna realistically live off the main borough from what I've heard

[fading sail]

i snatched an east village spot for 3600 3bd

during covid tho

[molten raptor]

Holy fuck

[sage plank]

No way

[molten raptor]

Did it increase?

post-covid

[fading sail]

you wouldn't be able to find that now

yeah prolly closer to 5k but still not terrible

[molten raptor]

I've heard of some terror stories of landlords increasing rent price

[fading sail]

i've only been back in the city for a couple months

[molten raptor]

It's illegal where I come from to do that so I'm wondering how that's possible

[fading sail]

i won't stay in this apt more than a year

[sage plank]

Ben do you know anyone whose paired up with friends and bought an actual apartment unit with a joint mortgage?

[fading sail]

they can't increase it mid year

no one personally but i wanna do that

[molten raptor]

mortgage? Just rent bruh

[fading sail]

i've been looking into real estate recently

nah mortgage is smart

[molten raptor]

How long are you thinking these mortgages are gonna take

[sage plank]

@molten raptor The issue is that rent burns money, but a mortgage would be like making an investment you can resell later

[fading sail]

idk 30 years amortized

doesn't really matter

[sage plank]

The other issue is property taxes

[fading sail]

you own the property

you can rent out some of it

to offset the taxes and mortgage

and you don't pay rent

[molten raptor]

So basically sub leasing

Like make it an airbnb or something

[fading sail]

not really

yeah but you own it in this case

and it's likely appreciating

[sage plank]

You basically buy the apartment and have somebody else pay your expenses lol

[fading sail]

yeah

it's smart

[sage plank]

And then you're living there for free

[fading sail]

just requires a bit more initial capital than renting

nyc might be tough tho

[molten raptor]

I'm thinking that would take 500k or something

initial capital

[sage plank]

Nahhhh it's not that expensive

[fading sail]

that's where the mortgage comes in - you can pay like a 20% upfront

don't have to buy the place straight out

500k is steep unless you're looking at luxury places

[molten raptor]

Hmm I guess I've never considered doing that before

[sage plank]

I think you'd have to do this with a few other people, where you'd set up some sort of joint venture company and buy the place as a company

[molten raptor]

Never really was into finance all that much. I JUST figured out income taxes exist a few months ago

[molten raptor]

This is probably the move

[fading sail]

sadge realization

[molten raptor]

Yeah

[fading sail]

100 tc is really 65 tc

[molten raptor]

sad that my 175k recurring is realistically 110k take home

[fading sail]

yeah

and then rent

you're really not pocketing a ton but it's enough

[molten raptor]

What's the best way to make up for that tax though? Is there a way to get make it back

[fading sail]

this is interesting

where do you read about options like that

[fading sail]

not really it's just gone, you can do some trickery with write offs but you're not gonna get most of it back

[wispy root]

is this true 😢 ????????????

[molten raptor]

Fuck sake

[fading sail]

idk if it's 60% higher

little extreme

[molten raptor]

Is there a non-taxable form of income then?

[fading sail]

xd no

not liquid anyway

[molten raptor]

Is stock taxable...

[sage plank]

@fading sail You'd need a lawyer

[fading sail]

like you could do some devious shit and have a portfolio which appreciates and then take a loan out against that

[molten raptor]

Is sending my money offshore gonna do anything?

or are they gonna tax that too

[fading sail]

yeah once you sell

[sage plank]

Aren't RSUs taxed?

How were your microsoft RSUs taxed?

[fading sail]

well if it's money you already received then it's already been taxed

yeah rsus are taxed like normal income

if they owe me 60 units i get like 40

at vest time

[sage plank]

How does the govt collect that...?

[fading sail]

just takes the units and immediately sells them? idk honestly

[molten raptor]

This doesn't make sense to me. So they tell me I'm making 175k, but when they give me my actual salary it's already post-taxed down?

Why can't they just say what salary is post-tax to begin with?

[fading sail]

yup

[sage plank]

I always assumed they'd just take it out of the cash portion

[fading sail]

that's called withholding

[molten raptor]

fuck america man

[fading sail]

lmfao

think it's that way everywhere unfortunately

that's just how taxes work

[molten raptor]

y'all live with that nuisance

[molten raptor]

naw we have a flat tax rate here. Everything you see in stores, salary, etc is already post-tax

no confusion

no tipping

no bullshit

[fading sail]

yeah but salary?

[sage plank]

What country is this?

[fading sail]

no salary is given pre tax

anywhere

[molten raptor]

Naw salary is given pre tax and we're supposed to give a flat rate of it to the government

[fading sail]

if that were the case you'd have to trust your citizens to save for tax season and pay like 40k straight up

[molten raptor]

That's what happens lmao

[sage plank]

Yogi what country is that lol

[fading sail]

dude which country does that i don't believe it

[molten raptor]

Not gonna say bruh

[sage plank]

What general part of the world

[molten raptor]

Asia

[fading sail]

you're not getting doxxed unless your country is literally 1 person

[sage plank]

Well, you could probably narrow it down if he's from a very small asian company

[molten raptor]

Naw it's pretty easy to dox once you know my country

[fading sail]

well regardless the vast majority of countries withhold taxes

[molten raptor]

Yeah I guess that's what I gotta live with now

[fading sail]

no one trusts their citizens to have their tax bill saved at the end of the year

• typically you owe money quarterly

[sage plank]

Also I don't believe any other country has companies that pay as well as America

[fading sail]

not actually just end of year

[molten raptor]

Ughhh

Is there anything else I gotta watch out for?

[fading sail]

financially?

[molten raptor]

Any forms, tax, bills etc I need to know

[fading sail]

idk just go on reddit.com/r/finance or smth

follow the wiki

[molten raptor]

Got it

[fading sail]

you'll be a millionaire by your 30s

maybe it's /personal finance

[molten raptor]

Going for that goal

[fading sail]

i forget

yeah easy goal for you here

if you're not a millionaire in your 30s you have issues

[molten raptor]

350k by 25. 500k by 30 for comp

[fading sail]

https://external-preview.redd.it/jghK95ZUqBebUMTxM-26mmGddrniqlA6kE-C4UlVNQY.png?auto=webp&s=205fbfe3cd5a1476b59cbb560a49b758db2df631