#hello
obsidian walrus
Someone said c word is racist so Kirb said it was banned
rigid arrow
idk, I wasn't here when it happened
obsidian walrus
so techie started asking which c word
rigid arrow
god damnit
floral trail
Almost five year ago, Apple Chief Financial Officer Luca Maestri said on an earnings conference call that the company intended to reach a net cash position of zero over time.
When he made that promise in February 2018, Apple had $163 billion in net cash—the amount left over after backing out debt.
But as it turns out, Maestri wasn’t kidding around.
As of the end of the September quarter, Apple (ticker: AAPL) had reduced its net cash position to $49 billion.
And Maestri once again repeated his promise to eventually reach a net cash neutral position, as he has been doing quarter after quarter since his initial promise.
To reach that target, Apple has been astonishingly aggressive in buying back its own stock. In the September quarter alone, the company bought back $25.2 billion of stock, the most Apple has ever spent to buy back shares in a single quarter.
To put that in perspective, that is dramatically more than Apple has ever spent on an acquisition—in its largest acquisition ever, the company bought the headphone company Beats for $3 billion in 2014.
This quarter’s repurchase total is far more than the latest quarter sales of Macs and iPad combined.
For the fiscal year ended in September, Apple bought back $90.2 billion shares, up from $85.5 billion in fiscal 2021, and the highest annual total ever. Over the last 10 years, Apple has repurchased $554 billion in stock, in the process reducing its share count by about 35%, adjusting for stock splits.
Investors could reasonably ask if that was the company’s best use of that much cash, but it would be hard to argue with the outcome: Over the last 10 years, sales have increased about 150%, adding nearly $240 billion of incremental annual revenue.
Apple shares over the last decade have appreciated 740%, crushing the S&P 500, which gained 173% over the same period.
And Apple isn’t done buying back stock just yet.
rigid arrow
so PUTS on AAPL
potent flare
Hey babes
Almost five year ago, Apple Chief Financial Officer Luca Maestri said on an earnings conference call that the company intended to reach a net cash position of zero over time.
When he made that promise in February 2018, Apple had $163 billion in net cash—the amount left over after backing out debt.
But as it turns out, Maestri wasn’t kidding around.
As of the end of the September quarter, Apple (ticker: AAPL) had reduced its net cash position to $49 billion.
And Maestri once again repeated his promise to eventually reach a net cash neutral position, as he has been doing quarter after quarter since his initial promise.
To reach that target, Apple has been astonishingly aggressive in buying back its own stock. In the September quarter alone, the company bought back $25.2 billion of stock, the most Apple has ever spent to buy back shares in a single quarter.
To put that in perspective, that is dramatically more than Apple has ever spent on an acquisition—in its largest acquisition ever, the company bought the headphone company Beats for $3 billion in 2014.
This quarter’s repurchase total is far more than the latest quarter sales of Macs and iPad combined.
For the fiscal year ended in September, Apple bought back $90.2 billion shares, up from $85.5 billion in fiscal 2021, and the highest annual total ever. Over the last 10 years, Apple has repurchased $554 billion in stock, in the process reducing its share count by about 35%, adjusting for stock splits.
Investors could reasonably ask if that was the company’s best use of that much cash, but it would be hard to argue with the outcome: Over the last 10 years, sales have increased about 150%, adding nearly $240 billion of incremental annual revenue.
Apple shares over the last decade have appreciated 740%, crushing the S&P 500, which gained 173% over the same period.
And Apple isn’t done buying back stock just yet.
floral trail
why is apple buying back its own stock tho
they wanna be cash neutral
obsidian walrus
is that why apple stock is 
floral trail
What is this
ur mom's house
rigid arrow
doesn't apple get some tax incentive for "investing" back into the company
jaunty harbor
floral trail
doesn't apple get some tax incentive for "investing" back into the company
i think they ultimately want $0 cash for tax purposes?
floral trail
which i guess means all their future deals will be through collateral?
obsidian walrus
but where do the stocks come from
floral trail
i'm pretty confused too ngl
rigid arrow
makes sense
floral trail
like if they get rid of all their cash
dont they lose a lot of their bargaining power
rigid arrow
so they are buying up their stocks so they can hedge against their stocks
floral trail
oh wait
it makes perfect sense
apple isnt planning any major acquisitions due to recession
obsidian walrus
jaunty harbor
but where do the stocks come from
Stocks are shares of ownership in publicly traded companies. Companies issue them on stock exchanges to raise money, at which point investors buy and sell them based on their potential to go up in value or pay dividends
obsidian walrus
and just ride the wave i guess
floral trail
it's pretty wild apparently in 2 years they've managed to bring their cash reserves from ~$169B down to like ~$50B
through their stock buybacks
obsidian walrus
Stocks are shares of ownership in publicly traded companies. Companies issue the...
ok yea, so they put some stocks in market and keep some with them, and then they can give em out to their employees
but one day they're gonna run out of stocks right
rigid arrow
no
obsidian walrus
jaunty harbor
but one day they're gonna run out of stocks right
It will IPO at a decided price/valuation. Based on that number of shares existing should be counted and they can issue them to employees as percentage ownership
floral trail
wait holy shit i just realized apple's plan is even more gigabrain than i thought
obsidian walrus
It will IPO at a decided price/valuation. Based on that number of shares existin...
yea but what about companies already being traded.
rain horizon
but one day they're gonna run out of stocks right
companies can issue stock if they so wish
jaunty harbor
yea but what about companies already being traded.
they can go in debt obviously (majority of growth stocks)
rigid arrow
stock appreciation can be realized when they sell the stock
obsidian walrus
companies can issue stock if they so wish
yea but that'll dilute the value of existing stocks so bad
floral trail
cash neutral basically means they dont have any cash beyond debt / operating costs
rigid arrow
so they can have lower taxes on the stock buyback
floral trail
so they'd have $0 profit
obsidian walrus
they can go in debt obviously (majority of growth stocks)
but how will going into debt solve this issue?
obsidian walrus
so they'd have $0 profit
yea I'm talking about entirely different topic.
rain horizon
yea but that'll dilute the value of existing stocks so bad
not really/that is reported and accounted in the value of the stock. I don't know how common it is for companies to issue new stock to compensate employees, but they definitely can
floral trail
yeah i know i'm just in awe at apple's plan lmfao
like is noone else realizing how gigabrain this shit is lmfao
rigid arrow
obsidian walrus
lol
jaunty harbor
but how will going into debt solve this issue?
floral trail
so is the meta (NO PUN INTENDED) to just reduce your cash as much as possible to pay less taxes lmfao
rigid arrow
the rich keeps on getting richer
rain horizon
like is noone else realizing how gigabrain this shit is lmfao
wdym stock buybacks aren't gigabrain they're a relatively normal way of returning capital to shareholders
rigid arrow
while I keep on getting poorer
obsidian walrus
while I keep on getting poorer
floral trail
wdym stock buybacks aren't gigabrain they're a relatively normal way of returnin...
no i mean the cash neutral stuff
the buybacks are their mechanism to do so
obsidian walrus
its good tho, all cash is kept by these companies less for us to use 
rigid arrow
true
rain horizon
no i mean the cash neutral stuff
all that means is they aren't hoarding cash/they are returning capital to shareholders..
rigid arrow
TRICKLE DOWN ECONOMICS HERE I COME
floral trail
all that means is they aren't hoarding cash/they are returning capital to shareh...
its not to pay less taxes?
obsidian walrus
I'm something of an economist myself 
rain horizon
its not to pay less taxes?
afaik this doesn't really impact Apple the corporation's taxes no
obsidian walrus
@jaunty harbor lemme have this one thing I failed at literally everything I'm a failed CS major and now a failed SWE this is the only thing I have 
Thanks
floral trail
afaik this doesn't really impact Apple the corporation's taxes no
so what is their end goal then
rain horizon
so what is their end goal then
to return capital to shareholders lmao
floral trail
when their cash = operating expenses / debt
yeah i mean what the benefit to them is
rain horizon
they're owned by shareholders, shareholders want their fuckn money
apple isn't doing anything with the money
rigid arrow
omg, apple is fucking giga mega chad brain
buying stocks back to give back to shareholders
floral trail
ok i might be severely misunderstanding how the market works but dont shareholders get their money back when the stock price goes up
like they cash out then
rain horizon
stock buybacks are one way of increasing share price
floral trail
ah i see
bright olive
Tf is is this thread 
rigid arrow
yup
obsidian walrus
like they cash out then
I mean they might sell it to someone else
rigid arrow
it's an easy way of inflating the stock price
obsidian walrus
not necessarily the company
rigid arrow
without having to do anything
floral trail
huh so while researching the cash neutral stuff i found out apple has its own hedge fund lmfao
rain horizon
ya they had to manage their huge fucking cash pile
rigid arrow
dont most companies have a capital fund for just some shit
rain horizon
I think that might just be a weird megatech company thing lol
I wouldn't expect random boomer companies to do that
obsidian walrus
I hate apple
obsidian walrus
rain horizon
I hate apple
I love apple
apple should just take a % of my paycheck tbh
they should lobby for a taxdeductible cellphone account
obsidian walrus
lmao
rain horizon
like a HSA for apple phones
floral trail
i dont think any megatech is on the level of apple's fund tho
rain horizon
yea apple has been a money printer for a really really long time lol
floral trail
as far as i can tell google doesnt have a hedge fund, they have a vc fund but that's about it
rain horizon
o ya that's what I meant, idk what apple's "hedge fund" even does
floral trail
welp its the worlds largest hedge fund lmfao
their sole purpose is to manage apple's money
obsidian walrus
I don't see how not lol apple rich 🤑
idk if this is same ashedge fund or different
too tired to read
@floral trail do you know about prod. flags?
obsidian walrus
floral trail
idk if this is same ashedge fund or different
thats the vc fund i mentioned
they invest in startups
obsidian walrus
oh
rain horizon
bruh am I really the only one impressed here
obsidian walrus
are the big ones it seems
oh i c
floral trail
lol apparently it used to be just "Google Capital"
rain horizon
didn't credit karma get acquired by intuit
obsidian walrus
bruh am I really the only one impressed here
with what
floral trail
didn't credit karma get acquired by intuit
i think so, but i guess G invested in them in the early stages
lmfao
"When someone in the United States buys an iPhone, iPad or other Apple product, a portion of the profits from that sale is often deposited into accounts controlled by Braeburn, and then invested in stocks, bonds or other financial instruments, say company executives. Then, when those investments turn a profit, some of it is shielded from tax authorities in California by virtue of Braeburn’s Nevada address. "
"Naturally, Apple is less than eager to discuss the role of its Nevada asset manager:
Apple declined to comment on its Nevada operations. Privately, some executives said it was unfair to criticize the company for reducing its tax bill when thousands of other companies acted similarly. If Apple volunteered to pay more in taxes, it would put itself at a competitive disadvantage, they argued, and do a disservice to its shareholders."
this is still mindblowing to me like i knew apple had hundreds of billions in cash but no clue they straight up created a hedge fund
floral trail
"What's more, Braeburn has no reporting obligations: there is no Investment Advisor Public Disclosure (IAPD) entry on Braeburn for the logical reason that it is not an investment advisor: it merely manages an ungodly amount of cash for AAPL's millions of shareholders. There is also no SEC filing 13-F filing on Braeburn's holdings. As such, not confined by the limitations of being a "long-only", it is in its full right to hold any assets it feels like, up to and including CDS on housing, puts on Samsung, or Constant Maturity Swaps that pay if the 10 Year collapses. It just doesn't have to report any of them.
Nobody knows: and that's the beauty of Braeburn. It is the world's largest hedge fund that is not really a hedge fund, nobody has heard of, and nobody knows just what assets it holds."
this is just gigabrain upon gigabrain
obsidian walrus
