lets say u were a soldier in an

[serene lotus]

this is different bc as a soldier im directly killing people

as a citadel code monkey im just making c++ code faster

[zealous rock]

literally i dont understand this morality bullshit

[graceful wagon]

lets say u were a soldier in an obviously unjust invasion, u cant individually do anything. do u proceed forwards w the mission or flee w potential conseq?

[bright yew]

lets say u were a soldier in an obviously unjust invasion, u cant individually do anything. do u proceed forwards w the mission or flee w potential conseq?

[tired fractal]

fleeing will get you very fucked as well

[zealous rock]

lets say u were a soldier in an obviously unjust invasion, u cant individually do anything. do u proceed forwards w the mission or flee w potential conseq?

[vernal olive]

bro why would u not care abt morality

[zealous rock]

this

[tired fractal]

cash :)

[serene lotus]

why become a soldier when you can just grind leetcode, create some personal projects, and become an L3 at google

[vernal olive]

yes, but if there is a bad thing that u are in control of, shouldnt u not do it?

arent u "morally obligated" to not do it, if u have a choice

[tired fractal]

I choose to get a shitton of money

[zealous rock]

because this is naive, thats not how the real world works, you dont have any obligations to do jack shit when everyones doing bullshit around you

in the real world you should get your priorities and comforts set first, make sure you are able to provide for you and your family

[tired fractal]

if being a soldier paid me $5000 a day id hot drop in eastern europe

[zealous rock]

morality wont do shit for that

[vernal olive]

im vegetarian

drinking milk and unfertilized eggs dont hurt the animal

[zealous rock]

no

[serene lotus]

doesn't the milk industry torture cows or some shit

like they milk them dry

[tired fractal]

the conditions in which those animals producing eggs and milk are kept in are terrible

[zealous rock]

every single indsutry and business has a downside

[tired fractal]

you are supporting a bad industry

[zealous rock]

ur not gonna avoid this

[vernal olive]

i buy from a local farm, perk of texas ig

[tired fractal]

texas is a terrible state lmfao

[vernal olive]

yes

[zealous rock]

@vernal olive if everyone lived the way you did, we would all be poor as fuck

and have no quality of life

[vernal olive]

i have no choice, im a uni student so i have to live near the campus

[zealous rock]

^

[vernal olive]

commute from where?

[tired fractal]

but you choose to go to uni right

[vernal olive]

i cant afford a house

[vernal olive]

yes

[zealous rock]

you could if you worked at a quant firm

[tired fractal]

whats stopping you from living in the woods in order to be morally correct

[zealous rock]

this is naive argument to make, no one can be 100% good in the real world

[vernal olive]

wait hold up

how does living in an apartment reduce the housing market?

to learn skills that help benefit the world

[serene lotus]

by asking for a raise and buying a house, you're taking away that buying opportunity from a homeless person

[tired fractal]

you are taking housing away from others by not living in the woods

[vernal olive]

i mean i live in a giant high rise building w like 500 other rooms in here

[zealous rock]

and that means only 500 people can live

[vernal olive]

so its alrdy effectively similar to smt from eminent domain

[tired fractal]

LMAO

[zealous rock]

you are taking it away from one person

why would you do that bruh

dont u want to be morally correct?

[vernal olive]

i need it to work and study

[zealous rock]

why are you wasting electricity, dont you know that powerplants release CFC's?

[vernal olive]

u dont need a few hundred thousand dollars

[serene lotus]

ok but seriously, capitalism sucks and is evil, so why not fuck around and make money 😄

[tired fractal]

yeah and we're in a society with 300mln people and with trading firms circulating trillions of dollars

if you taking away 1 room out of 500 is morally justifiable then so is being 1 person within the trading industry

[zealous rock]

see thats the thing, you wont be saying this when you are making 50k at a firm thats "morally correct" and gets beaten to a pulp by every company that actually pays a decent wage

if im going to live in this world and they give an opportunity to make hundreds of thousands of dollars, I absolutely will take it, because its survival of the fittest, and being morally correct doesnt help me out at all

[vernal olive]

biotech companies, hospitals, chip manufacters, environment companies, etc dont pay 50k tho. they pay a high upper middle class wage, just not $300k like quant firms do

[zealous rock]

exactly, then why not go work there, you can be happy with the 50k, but everyone who wants to live a comfy life will go take the 300-400k

this perspective will change with inflation i guarantee it

true

[serene lotus]

why would you work for a biotech company when they're the reason we have an opioid epidemic that's ravaging millions of families

wait not biotech

but you get my point

why work for these companies when they've done a lot of harm

[graceful wagon]

[zealous rock]

why woudl you work for a chip manufacturer with the amount of silicon and waste produced to develop the most miniscule of improvements in cpu power

[vernal olive]

theres various diff biotech companies. big pharma is fucked, but how would imaging compnaies or genetic screening companies hurt anyone?

[serene lotus]

so you want eugenics?

waz

[zealous rock]

yea and big pharma pays, i know for a fact those small morally correct firms pay like 40-50k

[vernal olive]

getting cancer patients into chemo early != eugenics bro

[zealous rock]

is that what you want to live with?

[vernal olive]

how do u kno that? levels shows that a lot of them pay in the 100-180k range

in MCOL places

[tired fractal]

did the cancer treating firms not test on anyone?

[vernal olive]

places like grail, truveta, etc

[zealous rock]

sure, and those are insanely hard to get into, .0001%

at that point id just go to a quant firm and take the 400k

[serene lotus]

it's extremely difficult to make money without screwing someone over. capitalism is screw or be screwed

[zealous rock]

checkmate

[vernal olive]

to sustain urself

[zealous rock]

THEN WHY WOULD YOU TAKE A PAY CUT

I WONT LIVE ON LIFE SUPPORT I WANT TO HAVE A DECENT LIFE

[tired fractal]

yeah, but you sustaining yourself takes the job away from someone who might need it more

[olive anvil]

do what u want to do but u cant expect everyone to care about the same stuff as you

[zealous rock]

this

[vernal olive]

u need to sustain urself obv, but theres a level beyond which u dont need more money. ie when u make 150k a year, do u gain more than others lose by upping that to 400k?

[serene lotus]

yes

150k -> 400k means i can buy a house to live in

[tired fractal]

I need 300k a year

[vernal olive]

that line can be lowered

[serene lotus]

if i make 150k, then i would have to support a filthy landlord

[zealous rock]

it means that I could do shit that actually contributes to society better since i have financial backing

[vernal olive]

bro u can buy a pretty good house on 150k if ur not living in like nyc or cali

[zealous rock]

money makes this world go round, if you want to be morally correct mint some money and then use it for good

[serene lotus]

it's actually my moral obligation to make enough to own my house so that i don't make landlords richer so they can fuck up more tenants

[zealous rock]

no point in living like a pauper when you can just be a good millionaire

[tired fractal]

im not gonna live in texas fuck texas

nor ohio

[vernal olive]

how are landlords different from quant firm owners?

[tired fractal]

nor mississippi

[vernal olive]

wtf why

[serene lotus]

quant firms make me money, landlords take away my money

[zealous rock]

so you are saying fuck the people living in cali and nyc, they arent morally correct cuz they live in a high cost area that requires more money to sustain?

[tired fractal]

as someone who is from texas

I hate texas i hate texas i hate texas

[vernal olive]

no im saying that salary only applies to ppl from cali or nyc, theres many others that dont live in one of those places

for them, the line is a bit higher

[zealous rock]

quant firm owners pay u a shit ton of money, and in exchange you get provided some of the best resources and environment to grow your personal skillsets

its a fucking W

[vernal olive]

why do u hate it tho

[zealous rock]

working at a startup making 50k barely able to afford rent for an apartment cuz i dont make enough to get a house is not morally correct, thats just being financially stupid

[vernal olive]

theres an obv difference between this and 200k vs 400k, thats just a ridiculous comparison tbh

[tired fractal]

1. bad weather 2) bad culture 3) dumb people 4) dumb people 5) car dependence

[zealous rock]

exactly

[vernal olive]

personally, the point where u can own a house in a safe area. it may be different for others, within a reasonable range

[zealous rock]

capitalism sucks, it draws the lines on its own by making a disparity

but that means u can just not worry about hte lines and focus on your own growth and development

[serene lotus]

living in texas means that you support climate change and a car-driven culture

[tired fractal]

i hate texas i hate texas i hate

[vernal olive]

how do u say capitalism sucks and talk abt how quant firm owners r great ⁉️ quants r the epitome of capitalism, hire genius ppl who could be doing much better shit just to make elites even richer

[zealous rock]

exactly, if i choose to refuse 400k for 100k, hundreds of people would take that ove rme

[tired fractal]

once u fix capitalism in the US ill work for the medical industry

[serene lotus]

quants provide market liquidity tho

someone has to buy/sell

[zealous rock]

ngl lowkey excited to scam the fuck out of my patients in teh future

[vernal olive]

is this srs or shitpost cuz ppl actually say this srsly

[serene lotus]

i mean they do that

[tired fractal]

based i think?

[serene lotus]

that's not a lie

[vernal olive]

yea but market liquidity is fucking useless lol

[zealous rock]

well its true, if they dont do it someone else will

[serene lotus]

without market liquidity, how would i put money into my 401k

[zealous rock]

how, think about what would happen if it wasnt there

[serene lotus]

who will sell the stonk to me

[vernal olive]

who cares abt some random financial instruments being available to buy at a few sec faster of speed

[zealous rock]

the global economy?

literally anyone who has ever used or bought stocks

[vernal olive]

bs financial instruments wouldnt exist, money would be backed by a tangible resource

[serene lotus]

let's back our money to gold again

[vernal olive]

YES

[serene lotus]

so we can have more money than there exists gold

[bright yew]

[zealous rock]

dude if stocks didnt exist, something else would pop up, why do you always assume the present scenario is the worst one

[vernal olive]

the global economy is a net negative for almost everyone outside the US or china

[serene lotus]

so you don't want an economy?

return to monke

[zealous rock]

lmao

what is this argument at this point

@vernal olive why even be a human, if all the humans become monke we wouldnt have moral obligations to worry about

[vernal olive]

monkes have very intense philosophical rationalizations behind each of their actions

u just cant understand them

[vernal olive]

not necessarily, but the current high volume globalized economy isnt an aboluste necessity nor the best system

[serene lotus]

isolationism

[vernal olive]

lets say u do work at a quant shop, would it be hypocritical or cringe to care deeply abt some other rando moral issues outside of that?

[tired fractal]

😳 quant shop 😳

[vernal olive]

@serene lotus @zealous rock @crimson imp do yall work at quants

[zealous rock]

im at Janestreet

[serene lotus]

im at radix

[tired fractal]

lucky, im on crt

[vernal olive]

wow yall r smart

[serene lotus]

yea my iq is 150

[vernal olive]

only 150

HRT resume screens for 160+

[zealous rock]

damn

janestreet to HRT pipeline time

[vernal olive]

i still dont understand that if u rly dont care abt morals wrt to money and financial industry

why care abt other stuff?

like why dont u exploit wherever u can

[serene lotus]

financial industry isn't bad enough for me to care

[zealous rock]

dawg, we just wanna live comfy and make our money, i do not care about hurting or helping anyone else

[vernal olive]

like if u could become a gop politician and make hella money doing so like ted cruz, why wouldnt u do it?

[zealous rock]

i am indifferent

[vernal olive]

interesting

[serene lotus]

ofc i don't want to make guns that will be immediately sold to the middle east to kill some yemeni family

like we can even make an argument for amazon

[vernal olive]

whats the diff between that and doing data analytics that contribute to a higher change of getting more kills on some yemeni family (like palantir)

[serene lotus]

who said i want to work at palantir

[tired fractal]

some people dont want to work at palantir

you saw the chat

[vernal olive]

ok so the line in drawn outside of financial industry but before direct weapons/military stuff?

thats fair enough

[tired fractal]

if you have a better alternative, dont work at palantir. but if my choice is between palantir and nothing im gonna pick palantir

[serene lotus]

i would argue palantir is better but personally i wouldn't do either

military stuff actually kills people directly

[zealous rock]

i will take palantir if its the only option i have

but its not my first option

then again im trying to get an internship tehre

[serene lotus]

like the whole point of weapons is to kill someone

why else would you make them

[vernal olive]

wb u got other opts but they pay like 100k less

[zealous rock]

palantir at that point

[vernal olive]

damn bro selling ur mf soul for 100k

thats crazy

[zealous rock]

bro i would sell my soul for a mcdonalds sprite, 100k is more than average

[vernal olive]

true

[tired fractal]

keep in mind, internships are mainly used as a stepping stone. If we wanted to work for the military we would not be computer scientists

[vernal olive]

true

[zealous rock]

this

[vernal olive]

if u could work for walter white and make 500k tc finding optimal routes for meth transport, would u do it

[serene lotus]

yes

[zealous rock]

yea its fucking walter white

mf a homie

[vernal olive]

lets say its a salamanca instead

u still doing it?

[serene lotus]

salamanca would probably kill my family if i said no

so yes

[tired fractal]

https://tenor.com/view/walter-white-walter-crying-walter-dying-gif-20964719

[vernal olive]

walt wouldnt tho

[serene lotus]

walt cares about family

[zealous rock]

but walts a homie

also we aint making the meth

we just doing math

[vernal olive]

he doesnt see u like that bro

[zealous rock]

proof? 🤨

[vernal olive]

u helping get him more sales tho and u getting more ppl addicted

[vernal olive]

i am heisenberg

[serene lotus]

just sell it to addicts only

you control the meth routes

[zealous rock]

no, its his overall gameplan, im just taking money and doing complex math

[vernal olive]

hes not a dumbass tho he tryna get more sales and would fire u if it wasnt better

[tired fractal]

real

[vernal olive]

if u selling to addicts only u not gonna be making half a mil tc

[zealous rock]

satwik with this reasoning you couldnt work anywhere or do anything

[serene lotus]

if someone is dumb enough to buy crystal meth for 40k a pound and they're not addicted, that's on them

[zealous rock]

trueeeeee

ur a terrible human being, I cant believe you are causing economic destabilization

like you are literally the reason

[vernal olive]

just cuz theyre dumb doesnt mean they should be taken advantage of

[vernal olive]

it rests heavy on my soul

[zealous rock]

why, if u arent gonna do, hundreds of other poeple will

at the end of the day the world will go round

and ur getting fucked

cuz u decided to just not take an opportunity

this is quant firms in a nutshell

[vernal olive]

thats a very sociopathic view of urself

[zealous rock]

? no its a practical fucking view

other people exist

[vernal olive]

ppl will be hitmen regardless of what u do, but u have the choice to not do so

[zealous rock]

competition is a thing

[zealous rock]

yea but we arent talking about hitmen, its fucking coding

you cant get mad at someone who codes for a rich guy and makes money, vs someone who codes for a meh dude and gets meh money

[vernal olive]

i mean ppl who code drones to kill ppl r effectively hitmen

ig in this case, ur like a scammer

not a hitman

[zealous rock]

scammer how?

[serene lotus]

what if my job is to code how to efficiently work warehouse workers to death

[vernal olive]

leaching money from retail traders, retirement funds, pension funds, etc to give to ultra rich

exactly

[zealous rock]

ok well im a bad fucking person, id rather make money and sleep well at night than sacrifice that for absolutely no benefit

nah cs is my backup, im actually premed

cs is just so that if i dont get med school, i can at least make a decent living

[vernal olive]

bro what

[zealous rock]

?

[vernal olive]

why are u a premed lmao

[zealous rock]

cuz i want to be a doctor, and it seems that premed is the track that leads to becoming a doctor...

[vernal olive]

lmaooo

[zealous rock]

dont tell me doctors are morally incorrect now as well

[vernal olive]

depends on if ur pro vaccine or not

if u dont care abt ethics why tf would u be a doc lmaoooo

doctor is like the most morally correct job out there