1200 applications at got no response from any of them.
#2023_grads
rustic glacier
dawn dagger
Cool! Congrats! What kinda of job is it? Did you have to leetcode?
Any chance you are still hiring? Lol
same here
rustic glacier
Cool! Congrats! What kinda of job is it? Did you have to leetcode?
no leetcode at all, just an hr screen and an interview with the cto, manager, and hr talking about what i got on my resume and all that, work on connectios, makes hiring process a lot easier
yea so you really cant just buy any brand u want, know the prices. I mean i dont everthink it but go to butcher for meat its cheaper, and just go for the lowest price u can and not processed foods. Fresh vegetables and fruits. And i also have this amazing local small grocery store next to me which i can get 2 huge boxes of veggies and fruits for 60$
And also im in canada toronto where everything is expesnive ASFFFF. Like 4 sticks of butter for 10$
elfin flint
no leetcode at all, just an hr screen and an interview with the cto, manager, an...
Oh wow
obsidian crater
I probably spend ~200 a month
But I shop at Aldi
I eat cheap food too, nothing too fancy
swift falcon
But I shop at Aldi
AWLDI
we spend abt $100-150 a week for us, family of 6
+$20-30 of eating out (mcdons, taco bell and $5 sushi)
+however much formula is 😩
rustic glacier
nah i barely use it my gf likes butter toast i use it to baste my steaks
and i buy like those box with the 4 sticks once a month
obsidian crater
buttah
swift falcon
nah i barely use it my gf likes butter toast i use it to baste my steaks
god i love buttered toast
I always eat way more of it than I should
2 slice in the toaster and 1 untoasted with butter while I’m waiting haha
vapid oasis
I only wrote four lines for the essay part
But I didn’t receive the oa
Either
So could’ve been
quartz wolf
I hope I don’t become an expired good.
😭
tardy geode
can behavioral question's answers be non tech related ? or it has to be something related to your past work ex or somthin?
vapid oasis
I hope I don’t become an expired good.
I’m getting there soon
grizzled bronze
can behavioral question's answers be non tech related ? or it has to be somethin...
it's best to use examples from work/college, but others can be acceptable too
swift falcon
sent out interview follow up email at 26hrs instead if 24hrs, am I doomed?
steep cove
cloud zinc
can behavioral question's answers be non tech related ? or it has to be somethin...
There was a time where companies would straight up ask you brain teasers.
mystic pollen
buncha hft/quant firms ask brain teasers and trivias
rugged rain
buncha hft/quant firms ask brain teasers and trivias
really? I thought companies don't ask them anymore
At least for FAANG
mystic pollen
really? I thought companies don't ask them anymore
some still do
mystic pollen
At least for FAANG
apple asked trivia for me last year but i feel like that doesn't count cuz apple's interview is so manager dependent
rugged rain
that's so random lol
mystic pollen
yeah LOL
mystic pollen
which companies in particular?
akuna asked me brainteasers during phone
mystic pollen
me neither
rugged rain
I saw a lot of loo kids intern there on linkedin
mystic pollen
it's a mid prop firm but really hard to get into
rugged rain
Ye that's what I heard
swift falcon
like easy brainteasers or hard ones?
mystic pollen
pretty hard imo
they mixed in stats with it
they never gave me an interview again though, guess i fucked up pretty bad 
marsh fulcrum
Any advice for me I want to start a boot camp ? Careerist or course career ?
past hound
@rugged rain Unhacked?
rugged rain
Yup
past hound
Lol
past hound
Any advice for me I want to start a boot camp ? Careerist or course career ?
Bootcamp isn't recommended. You really need a CS degree at the mininium and at least 1 internship highly recommended.
If your goal is to break into swe that is
Resume screen is just too brutual without these even if you are actually better than people with a degree and formal experienxe.
past hound
Data Science
blazing flame
Resume screen is just too brutual without these even if you are actually better ...
4 internship is nw the minimum bar these days and 3 of them better be zon goog fb
swift falcon
4 internship is nw the minimum bar these days and 3 of them better be zon goog f...
that’s dicked up
rain patio
4 internship is nw the minimum bar these days and 3 of them better be zon goog f...
more like Jane Street, Jane Street, and Jane Street 😂
hard wind
Any advice for me I want to start a boot camp ? Careerist or course career ?
ur among the last in the herd
be prepared to put in 4x more effort than the 2020-2021 folks
umbral gyro
////<
rustic glacier
Oh my goddd i finally did it my trading bot works and no errors!!! gives me all results and saves the data so i can analyize my strategies
9 hours spent on it, 5 hours debugging
rain patio
Oh my goddd i finally did it my trading bot works and no errors!!! gives me all ...
U making money?
rustic glacier
U making money?
now is the time to implement the strategy and then i can run it live account and not paper account.
I was a winner manually trading made 1000$ in a couple days starting with 100$
rain patio
loses $10,000 on the first day
pure bloom
kek, bro only got like 1k, ain't no way he is going into a 10k deficit.
alpine fjord
now is the time to implement the strategy and then i can run it live account and...
Mind if I dm you? I’ve made one as well. Wanted to discuss your tech stack and strategies
pure bloom
😭 i ain't learning about trading until i land a job bro
rugged rain
epic systems
good thing I've never heard of that company
People who give trivia and brainteasers questions in interviews should take the Mensa IQ test and see how they do
indigo storm
good thing I've never heard of that company
they had one of the worst oa platforms ever
they had 4 codign questions that you couldnt compile or run code on
then they asked you to learn a new programming language and asked you syntax questions
then they asked a bunch of math questions and brain teasers
then they had like 2 min mental math speedrun section
indigo storm
ppl on this server have a lot of greivances against epic
for good reason
was total waste of 3 hours
analog wind
swift falcon
really don't need this rn as I'm waiting on news from interview from diff company
almost had a heart attack
rain patio
rain patio
polar grail
i think my phone number being used as bait phone number people by one of the hr of one employee
got random phone msg "hey ava, wanna play golf tomorrow" 
swift falcon
got random phone msg "hey ava, wanna play golf tomorrow" <:WazowskiStare:7529432...
i thought it was wrong number, glad I didn't respond haha
probably some phishing thing?
polar grail
my msg content is about same
past hound
I don't answer anyone who isn't in my contacts.
polar grail
but it hello ava, are you free to play golf tommoroww
past hound
If it is important and they called me, they usually leave a voicemail.
grizzled bronze
playing golf with amy tomorrow 
rain patio
unreal current
Any group/server for Goldman Sachs interns/grads?
whole roost
ppl on this server have a lot of greivances against epic
Their work environment is reflective of the interview process
Sweatshop, thats why need to up the pay so much (also to get ppl to move to Madison)
solemn spire
They getting creative tho, got someone saying I got hospital appointment tomorrow and reply with yes or no stuffs. I have no appointments
tardy geode
amazon WTF
fuck bezos
what an ass
did mass layoff again , where will us grads go 
when will this anxiety end
fallen fox
its joever
fallen fox
no interview in months
tardy geode
btw
if someone mentions me , like in comments or something on linkedin then can my connections also see that i was mentioned ?
peak comet
did mass layoff again , where will us grads go <:sad:585678099069403148>
does that mean non-aws ro cope is over 
rustic glacier
Mind if I dm you? I’ve made one as well. Wanted to discuss your tech stack and s...
yea of course
neon perch
Anyone who has a good background in python and wants to work on some ML related tasks, and wants to stop their opt clock from running out, DM me. I have an opportunity available.
Note: it’s unpaid.
rustic glacier
Anyone who has a good background in python and wants to work on some ML related ...
sure whats up Im starting to implement ml in my trading algo
swift falcon
did mass layoff again , where will us grads go <:sad:585678099069403148>
does 100 count as mass layoff anymore though?
tardy geode
swift falcon
that's dicked up
tardy geode
swift falcon
kinda hard to believe that amazon can't absorb those employees into other parts of the company
tardy geode
my only hope is brennan delsing now
pseudo wagon
really don't need this rn as I'm waiting on news from interview from diff compan...
u took my job 😠
lol how was fiserv?
did it go well?
tardy geode
lol how was fiserv?
bro they rejected me
swift falcon
u took my job 😠
I did not
tardy geode
resume reject
pseudo wagon
bro they rejected me
😦
swift falcon
I was thinking it was for the job I interviewed with
peak comet
blind 
tardy geode
blind <:testmike:933150817026981928>
yea
peak comet
good thing i didnt intern in alexa 
tribal rampart
Anyone did meta New grad in previous years?
neon perch
Is Amazon ever gonna stop laying off
tardy geode
Is Amazon ever gonna stop laying off
i don't think so
steep cove
steep cove
tardy geode
https://tenor.com/view/canticos-not-gonna-make-it-not-going-to-make-it-ngmi-were...
why is this gif 5 hours late
@rain patio
oh wait
vague dune
Has anyone here taken the general software developer and frontend developer hackerrank coding assessments for IBM? Without giving away the problems (as it is against the rules), how difficult did you find it? Was it leetcode easy, medium, and/or hard?
shadow pumice
Has anyone here taken the general software developer and frontend developer hack...
I took both, the LC problems were easies and mediums. The front end OA had one LC and one non LC css question
tardy geode
Has anyone here taken the general software developer and frontend developer hack...
i had given it 3 months back , Mediums (Backend) but never got anything further
indigo storm
hmm got 516 on codesignal
is this good enough for ng test swe for visa?
whoops wrong channel
neon perch
<:sadge:747169038911930418>
The cookie god
steep cove
The cookie god
analog wind
Offer or rope offer or rope offer or rope
shadow pumice
Has anyone taken the palantir OA? If so, any advice?
rain patio
fallen fox
offer in december or literally rope
tardy geode
Offer or rope offer or rope offer or rope
rope
what's happening at Open AI ?
this sounds like theres gonna be some layoff or shit there
ik the ceo got fired or something
pseudo wagon
sam altman got fired?
o shit
sam altman is in the job market now, it's joever for us new grads
I bet he's already here in this server
swift falcon
at this point i'm just hoping a company will take pity on me
also, is this the start of the recession?
past hound
wagmi
blazing flame
I bet he's already here in this server
hi
tardy geode
blazing flame
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTYUyDjVCRU
sounds like daphnis et cloe part 3
hard wind
sounds like daphnis et cloe part 3
cultured
blazing flame
cultured
it also sounds like something i heard in an indie art house film, esp the intro i cant remeber
found it
it's in call me by your name, i remember cuz i went to watch this film with my highschool crush on a date
didn't care for the film (it was her chioce, not mine), but soundtrack is v good
damn my memory is sharp i'm impressed by meself
tardy geode
rain patio
fallen fox
hard wind
hard wind
rustic glacier
oh noo the weird kids are taking over the chat
heavy trout
i mean the reason we dont have jobs is that we are cs majors who don't have the social skills to pass a behavioral
look at the channel
mystic pollen
i mean the reason we dont have jobs is that we are cs majors who don't have the ...
this can't be true 💀
or can it
tardy geode
i mean the reason we dont have jobs is that we are cs majors who don't have the ...
bro rekt the entire server
ornate cliff
<@200372491594629121> how dare you 😠
LOOOOOL those H1Bs for scammed 🥲
Welcome to Scamada
obsidian crater
Scamada, no jobs, 1 million dollar houses, 1 month wait for healthcare 
cloud zinc
Its tough working in an extracurricular project club when your team members are acting like band kid memelords.
One of them decided to blast the ussr anthem, and I had to leave
delicate elm
One of them decided to blast the ussr anthem, and I had to leave
Is this in college?
That might of been acceptable in 2013 middle school lmao
cloud zinc
Yeah
delicate elm
damn that's rough
cloud zinc
No disrespect to any of them, they are good backend developers. But I just can't bring myself to attend work meetings outside of standup
pseudo wagon
One of them decided to blast the ussr anthem, and I had to leave
I blasted ussr anthem in my ceramics class in high school lol
my ceramics teacher legit thought I was a communist and never let me use her computer after that lmao
to be fair I was 14 back then
pine topaz
Scamada, no jobs, 1 million dollar houses, 1 month wait for healthcare <:pog:748...
1 decade wait
obsidian crater
swift falcon
can companies automate messages to post to their linkedin?
gleaming trellis
can companies automate messages to post to their linkedin?
Did you get the job you interviewed for?
swift falcon
Did you get the job you interviewed for?
idk i just saw them post a link to the job posting and it was dated yesterday
I interviewed wednesday
short swift
Hey Everyone,
I wanted to reach to you guys for help regarding finding full-time Software jobs. I have been looking for the right opportunity for almost 11 months (Started my search during my graduate studies at ASU).
As of now, due to Visa restrictions, I am employed at a startup as an unpaid employee, which helps me in gaining experience as well. But, I badly need a full time job to support myself financially. Owing to my urgent situation to find a job, if anyone can help with any leads or referrals, it would really appreciate it. If anyone could help me find interviews, also, it would be great. Kindly DM or reach out to me at rajeshsk@asu.edu if you find any leads.
Few things about me:
I completed my MS in CS from ASU on May 2023 and looking for a full-time job for almost 11 months now. I have 5.5 years of professional experience and 1.5 years in research.
LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rajeshsk/
I am from Tempe, AZ and willing to relocate anywhere in the US. I am on F1 OPT visa with 2.5 years of work authorization left and need H1B sponsorship in the future.
Thanks!
naive ridge
Does anyone know someone who works at Pinterest currently?
pure bloom
Hey Everyone,
I wanted to reach to you guys for help regarding finding full-tim...
Have you try going to career fair hosted by your university or looking out of state? If you are still in school, and your school have capstone project sponsor by industry, consider doing it. Some people can get job offer after completing those.
tardy geode
Have you try going to career fair hosted by your university or looking out of st...
career fairs are bs for international students
since sponsorship is required
pure bloom
career fairs are bs for international students
Maybe, but I can vouch for the capstone one, because my friend was an int student and got an offer from company after.
tardy geode
also @short swift , if you didn't get a single interview then maybe tweak your resume ig . i hope you have had some interviews atleast since i see you graduated in mar 2023 . market was pretty good june jul aug
pure bloom
since sponsorship is required
some companies do offer sponsorship, it is more competitive though. I see quite a few at least in my career fair lol.
heavy trout
Hey Everyone,
I wanted to reach to you guys for help regarding finding full-tim...
try to rizz some baddies for the green card and lifestyle
you kinda chad
bold ether
hey quick question, was Amazon NG open to external last cycle (for 2023 grads)?
tardy geode
hey quick question, was Amazon NG open to external last cycle (for 2023 grads)?
yes then they pushed people's offers
short swift
also <@799490147196076053> , if you didn't get a single interview then maybe twe...
I have been getting only few interviews though
Sponsorship is also becoming a problem
short swift
Have you try going to career fair hosted by your university or looking out of st...
I did go to career fairs. Not really helpful
pure bloom
I did go to career fairs. Not really helpful
Sorry to hear that man. I know this sound rough but you should also consider applying to remote job (like data science job that is remote). If you don't land a sponsorship, it will definitely help if you go back.
short swift
Even if its remote, you are required to be in US (unless until you are working for a startup) in most cases. They dont want to let the data be accessed outside US 😄
Especially for data-software related jobs
pure bloom
Even if its remote, you are required to be in US (unless until you are working f...
Lol, i thought that is only for national security stuff. If it is just an online platform or application, it should be fine.
Oh, what about handshake? If you graduated from ASU, handshake might be a good platform to look into.
short swift
Got some requests from handshake. But they dont sponsor. That platform is good as well
I am looking for some companies that may be local to tempe
tardy geode
I have been getting only few interviews though
thats good , your message sounded as if you ain't getting any thing
short swift
It's just stressful without any job though
bold ether
out of curiosity, why not get a software dev job in India then @short swift, then no worry about sponsorship at all
unless I’m missing something
there’s de shaw and google and other great tech places India no?
neon perch
there’s de shaw and google and other great tech places India no?
The situation is pretty saturated in India as well, and the best you can do as an swe is like 35k usd a year tc
tardy geode
there’s de shaw and google and other great tech places India no?
its easier to get into FAANGS here than in india
if there are 1k applicants for a role at Amazon in the US then for the same role in india there are 10k applicants
plus all other shitty tier culture factors too
like theres this shit mentality there that only people from Tier 1(IIT's) Tier2(NIT's) are smart/brilliant
like literally some companies put this in their job description "Candidates from Tier 1 and Tier 2 unis only"
analog wind
like literally some companies put this in their job description "Candidates from...
Wtf brah
rain patio
tardy geode
https://tenor.com/view/canticos-not-gonna-make-it-not-going-to-make-it-ngmi-were...
yo you are too early
fallen fox
heavy trout
Infosys dream job fr fr
harsh crow
Anyone heard back from SLB after their on-site interview? I had interview in mid October but still didn't hear back from them
bold pier
https://tenor.com/view/cat-sad-blade-runner-gif-27204562
I drive
swift falcon
pseudo wagon
got work tomorrow 
pure bloom
Good luck. You got it.
tacit oak
rich prairie
bro the whole point of this channel is to have work
HIRE ME
GIVE ME
A
JOB
see like that
forest elk
https://tenor.com/view/cat-sad-blade-runner-gif-27204562
interlinked
golden agate
Thoughts on getting low paying swe job and actively looking for other roles right after being hired?
Do I update resume? 1 month experience lol
tardy geode
if you update with one month and apply
then you will be looked as a job hopper
recruiters will ask "you just joined so why you looking to switch so early"
heavy trout
Thoughts on getting low paying swe job and actively looking for other roles righ...
Go for it
Or at this point you might as well live with parents or relatives and just lc
And maybe take a flexible gig/min wage job that requires talking to people
golden agate
Or at this point you might as well live with parents or relatives and just lc
I already do lol
swift falcon
Thoughts on getting low paying swe job and actively looking for other roles righ...
is this not what we’re trying to do already?
cloud zinc
how would you write "I wrote multiple crud apis for tables that are important to the club's website" on a resume?
This project involves refactoring a website owned by a university swe club, and there isn't any information regarding data usage and efficiency percentages
craggy jacinth
like theres this shit mentality there that only people from Tier 1(IIT's) Tier2(...
Yeah it's insane that 40% of Indian college/uni new grads are unemployed
brave forge
Yeah it's insane that 40% of Indian college/uni new grads are unemployed
same in the USA lol
craggy jacinth
idk
statistics say 4%
It seems a little higher than that
but I would say still under 10%
I guess being employed at retail and service industries do not count as unemployment
brave forge
i mean im not even a grad yet so i dont count as unemployed. i feel like most american graduates, especially in a field like CS, can find some kind of work but it's probably under employment which is another catagory of unemployed
pseudo wagon
I guess being employed at retail and service industries do not count as unemploy...
damn lol, in that case I'm not unemployed
I work part time at retail
heavy trout
Yeah it's insane that 40% of Indian college/uni new grads are unemployed
Are call centers selective these days?
Judging from the exposing scammer vids, the hiring bar isn't that high
Then there's always the Nike shoe factory
rain patio
Are call centers selective these days?
Probably lol. Gone are the days when a guy with obviously bad english can scam some rich boomers out of their life savings. Scam call centers need people who sound legit to turn a profit
vital meteor
Are call centers selective these days?
Yes, I'm T3 with 6 FAANG+ internships and call center waitlisted me
rain patio
tepid tusk
Hi how are ya'll 2023 grads doing so far?
urban flicker
Hi how are ya'll 2023 grads doing so far?
tepid tusk
https://tenor.com/view/kill-me-drink-bleach-gif-22890796
Me too Brownie, I'm not sure what direction to go.
urban flicker
Honestly bro, best I think we can do rn is wait for more positions to open and in the meantime make connections with people as I found that to help a lot
swift falcon
we’re dead in the water
delicate lantern
How long does it take to hear back from Bloomberg after Em?
Had mine last week Tuesday
tardy geode
Are call centers selective these days?
thats racist af
sam altman got a new job
in one day !
at MSFT
swift falcon
fossil jewel
zealous pulsar
Anyone heard back from SLB after their on-site interview? I had interview in mid...
they said they would be sending out the results after interviewing everyone
heavy trout
Probably lol. Gone are the days when a guy with obviously bad english can scam s...
I feel you could chatgpt one
swift falcon
AI was a mistake
slender axle
Why does every company think you shouldn't get to pick where to live? Like they will post a job with NYC, San Fransisco, and Texas. Then after the interview they tell you "oops actually we're only hiring for texas right now." Thanks for wasting my time
heavy trout
bc theere's people willing to move to texas
slender axle
bc theere's people willing to move to texas
yes but they put more popular locations on the listing
It's fine if you want to hire for texas, but just put it in the job posting
I feel like they want to get people who wouldn't apply, and then sunk-cost fallacy them into moving
opal iron
I feel like they want to get people who wouldn't apply, and then sunk-cost falla...
NYC and sf fills up fast
past hound
NYC and sf fills up fast
This is the issue. Headcounts fills up, and the only locations left are the ones people want the least.
opal iron
This is the issue. Headcounts fills up, and the only locations left are the ones...
Yeah that’s the case most likely
slender axle
Then they should tell you when the HC fills up so you have a chance to drop the interview. But companies always want to keep you hanging and not say anything about their HC
heavy trout
but a lot of people would rather move to texas for a job then have no job
past hound
Things can often change midway through the interview process.
heavy trout
and recruiters are overworked as is
past hound
If they want to change location after giving you a written offer, then that is different.
Before then, whatever.
slender axle
and recruiters are overworked as is
you think they would get less work by excluding candidates who aren't interested
vapid oasis
Damn should be in a lyric in a song
vague dune
What would you guys say is the market rate/salary for a new grad in a F500 company? software dev role (location is bay area) Not sure if I am being low-balled or not.
earnest parcel
What would you guys say is the market rate/salary for a new grad in a F500 compa...
check levels or glassdoor
jolly leaf
anyone know of salesforce developer? is this a good position for a transition? I want to later apply to software engineer.
fallen fox
take it if you have nothing else lined up
shadow pumice
ya its pretty similar i think, u need a salesforce certification tho. uses some language called apex
heavy trout
What would you guys say is the market rate/salary for a new grad in a F500 compa...
f500 nonfaang, prolly around 120k? for bay area
jolly leaf
ya its pretty similar i think, u need a salesforce certification tho. uses some ...
thx！
jolly leaf
take it if you have nothing else lined up
thx!
vague dune
Yea I am getting an offer in that range.
Should be noted that I am a masters degree grad, not just a bachelors degree grad. Not sure if that changes things and makes the market rate/salary higher for people with my credentials.
heavy trout
Yea I am getting an offer in that range.
Should be noted that I am a masters d...
probably not unles you have work experience
narrow harbor
yo guys, a senior engineer dmed me on linkedin asking me what role i was interested in for referral, although i checked the company's posting and they aren't hiring any new grad/entry level roles, what's the best way to respond?
opal steppe
yo guys, a senior engineer dmed me on linkedin asking me what role i was interes...
truthfully what entry field did you want your career to start
dont let them smack you in QA if you can help it
vague dune
probably not unles you have work experience
I have internship and contract work experience.
I was under the assumption that masters degree grads generally get higher salaries than bachelor's degree grads.
Anyways, thanks for the advice
narrow harbor
truthfully what entry field did you want your career to start
most likely backend, but I don't much exp with it besides some projects really
past hound
I have internship and contract work experience.
I was under the assumption tha...
Nah, masters are a dime a dozen with degree mills that are geared towards milking international students who want visas.
tardy geode
this recruiter wants my internship managers name before proceeding so that he can get an overview about me
wtf
heavy trout
this recruiter wants my internship managers name before proceeding so that he ca...
Isn't this standard?
tardy geode
no
heavy trout
Some companies wanted my perf review before interviewing me
tardy geode
coz then its like biased
heavy trout
It's pretty standard for hiring experienced hired
Yea ofc it's biased
They wanna know how it's like working with you
earnest parcel
alumni + searching [company] early talent
soft prism
has anyone interned for Goldman Sachs?
fresh mango
Then online dating matches
finding and matching with PM's from startups, rizz em w your data pipelining skills
heavy trout
finding and matching with PM's from startups, rizz em w your data pipelining ski...
Product mommy x founder bb
short lark
has anyone had Bloomberg EM round? Can I ask what should I expect? Thank you 0.0
vapid oasis
When did u apply if u don’t mind me asking
vernal dust
has anyone had Bloomberg EM round? Can I ask what should I expect? Thank you 0.0
Sys design is possible
gleaming trellis
i might die of anxiety tbh
Why?
fallen fox
short lark
When did u apply if u don’t mind me asking
Early october?
gentle oriole
and recruiters are overworked as is
Recruiters do work?
heavy trout
yea
gentle oriole
Like what?
Put resume thru ATS and auto email rejections?
And pick 100 names out of a hat to interview
vapid oasis
faxxx
earnest parcel
And pick 100 names out of a hat to interview
@hidden saffron
mighty copper
Does anyone have experience interviewing with Datadog? Interviewing for the technical support engineer position and I got my second round coming up which is a phone call with the hiring manager. Any tips or advice would be much appreciated.
rain patio
cloud zinc
PHONE SCREEN WITH LIBERTY MUTUAL OUT OF THE BLUE
No application or nothin
For their 2024 internship role
cloud zinc
they're accepting new grads for internships? <:KEKW_RECESSION_EDITION:1014352624...
Nah it turns out I sent out an application back in october 6th with reference to my masters degree
Apologies for the miscommunication
rain patio
shut flicker
is it a bad idea to mention ur current new grad job if u are applying to other new grad jobs, like is it a bad look to want to switch after a couple of months?
tardy geode
yes
i mean
not bad but , they will look at you like a job hopper
like you would def be asked "you just started , why are you looking to switch so early"
tardy geode
umm
fossil jewel
wouldnt it come thru background checks
it would
fallen fox
is it a bad idea to mention ur current new grad job if u are applying to other n...
you can block access to the work number
that's what i did and bg can't look up my previous employers anymore
shut flicker
wdym
fallen fox
it's a website built by equifax used by background check agencies
it stores everything - your title, your employer, start and end date and even your income in some cases
you can send them a request to block access to your profile, that way they can't dig up your history lol
honest estuary
most companies dont use it tho
honest estuary
i promise u 99% of companies dc
grizzled bronze
that explains the rejections i'm getting
honest estuary
every big tech bg check ive done doesnt even verify anything
only criminal
they didnt even verify degree
blazing flame
not even school enrollment?
blazing flame
brb changing me resume to CMU
blazing flame
i've never been asked for transcript lmao
honest estuary
lmao
most companies do it as cheap as possible
bc they hire thousands of people
and dont care bc u passed the interviews
ya gov
is very different
and banks
its tech that doesnt care
i had to verify employment for a bank lmao
but i put random dates
and it didnt matter
bc i couldnt remember
fallen fox
banks care about credit tho right? if you have poor credit then it's joever?
honest estuary
no
fallen fox
subtle lagoon
How to recover from a job rejection
rain swan
How to recover from a _job_ rejection
just think of it as bad dream and move on
rain swan
blazing flame
How to recover from a _job_ rejection
u never recover
u just take the damage and carry on
past hound
How to recover from a _job_ rejection
Move on and apply to more jobs.
subtle lagoon
it was a great opportunity
I cleared four technical rounds....
But in the final founder's round, I didn't qualify. What a shame!
He mentioned a lack of passion for software development
i am in shambles
gleaming trellis
He mentioned a _lack of passion for software development_
How does he prove that?
subtle lagoon
How does he prove that?
i dont know 
blazing flame
it was a great opportunity
I cleared four technical rounds....
But in the final ...
i'm so sorry
i feel like these days companies and interviewers want to see u drink the koolaid
what ever happened to an honest job
word of advice i wouldn't take it personally, note the feedback u got and if u think it's good feedback improve on it, and just move on
no use being hung up
subtle lagoon
i feel like these days companies and interviewers want to see u drink the koolai...
i sometimes think i've been honest which actually is being stupid in interviews
subtle lagoon
need to learn that
prime palm
How to recover from a _job_ rejection
Every job rejection gets you closer to a job offer
You learn from all the experiences
tacit oak
obsidian crater
It is joe, ver.
molten knot
Goldman Sachs
Application Submitted -> Application Under Review
Anyone got like this 
rain swan
Goldman Sachs
Application Submitted -> Application Under Review
Anyone got like...
yeah then I got reject also
lol
molten knot
shut crescent
how long have u guys been applying and looking for new grad roles
fallen fox
Goldman Sachs
Application Submitted -> Application Under Review
Anyone got like...
did you do the OA?
what's it like ? lc meds?
pseudo wagon
But for a different role
just looked at the job desc, holy shit I'm gonna need to know a lot of sql
gotta grind sql leetcode then
molten knot
did you do the OA?
I did but not for this position. It was SDE role and got 2 LC easy
fallen fox
thanks
tardy geode
they resume rejected me 
mystic pollen
i sometimes think i've been honest which actually is being stupid in interviews
interviews are a time to kiss ass
hearty cove
Hey, so im really lost on where I should look for job openings. I have been applying on linkedin, github etc, but all I can find are old and outdated links where 1000s of people have already applied. Does anyone know where I can find the immediate openings? Im just so exhausted . Where are you guys applying from?
pseudo wagon
Hey, so im really lost on where I should look for job openings. I have been appl...
just apply to those anyway if you think you are qualified
80% of those 1000 people are not qualified and won't pass the interview screen
hearty cove
So some people are applying the day the position was posted on the careers site. How do I get notified of that?
pseudo wagon
^^
hearty cove
Oh I see.
yup
😭
I think I'm missing out because im applying too late
yeahh.. which is to check obsessively
yeah
wbu?
thanks
oh wow, how is your search going?
pseudo wagon
I graduated may 2023 too
I have interviews with 2 companies after thanksgiving
probably gonna be rejected by them
hearty cove
oh which companies? and did you also apply on the first day the job position was posted?
pseudo wagon
oh which companies? and did you also apply on the first day the job position was...
for one of the companies I did, for the other I think it was a week later
one of the comapines is a big finace company
I interviewed with them before and did really well on all three interviews, but got rejected because someone else better than me got the job
but now I'm interviewing for another position at this finance company
fingers crossed I hope it goes well
hearty cove
Oh no! Good luck for this one
tall cedar
Does spacex reject quicker or slower
vapid oasis
Hey @pseudo wagon I dmed u. I just had a couple of questions!!
pseudo wagon
Hey <@495738794776199178> I dmed u. I just had a couple of questions!!
just saw this rn, I responded to ur dm
hearty cove
just saw this rn, I responded to ur dm
I dmed you as well. Thanks 🙂
rain patio
🥳
swift falcon
ty
feels good
start date jan 8th, technically contingent on background check and reference check but that should be fine
yeah for sure
gives me time to make sure all my projects at current job are wrapped up too
so I'm not leaving them hanging
I was dancing haha
vague slate
congragulations!!!!!
swift falcon
ty 😄
swift falcon
Nice, what company?
I'm gonna be cagey abt this sorry, but it's like a mid-size insurance
java stack
past hound
Valid. Is the pay at least good?
solemn spire
damn congrats, you were looking for new job while already having one?
swift falcon
that's a 17% raise for me atm
swift falcon
damn congrats, you were looking for new job while already having one?
yeah, but old job was IT helpdesk
solemn spire
ahh I see i see
where did you put the IT help desk experience in you resume? education - it desk - projects ? or projects before it desk?
vague slate
remote is soooo huge
grizzled bronze
remote is soooo huge
remote is super competitive too
swift falcon
where did you put the IT help desk experience in you resume? education - it desk...
i got education, projects, and then experience, but I'm going to be real with everyone here, i just got lucky with this i think
cause I'm not special
solemn spire
nah I need that luck
grizzled bronze
cause I'm not special
you're just being humble
swift falcon
let me rephrase that, this company focused on my background over everything else
so it was a good fit for me
also, was a career fair connection too
so that's another point for career fairs, even if it was like 2 months later
solemn spire
let me rephrase that, this company focused on my background over everything else
background meaning your IT job?
swift falcon
background meaning your IT job?
yeah, and like military and transcripts (like how i went from having dogshit grades 10 years ago to having decent gpa now)
credit to them tbh, they really gave me a chance to explain myself which i don't normally get to do
🤷♂️
I'm happy tbh, they seem like a great company and I could forsee staying with them for a long time if I'm a good fit
solemn spire
seems like you found good company
golden agate
Found a job. Only I have to move to India.
gleaming trellis
I had an interview today <:doge:747517104747446372>
What is the title of position?
obsidian crater
product security engineer
it's mostly security for surgical robotics
perhaps
security isn't prestigious though
spring boot dev
well the issue is the "cool" security stuff aka pentesting pays dog
writing malware is for criminals or state intelligence agencies
solid osprey
how long did they take to get back to you after the recorded interview
past hound
wagmi
tribal rampart
Anybody know how servicenow work life balance is? Just got an offer
slender axle
Anybody know how servicenow work life balance is? Just got an offer
servicenow more like servicelater 👉😎👉
in this market, just accept the offer unless you have something better cause its not that bad
nowhere as bad as amazon
slender axle
Amazon WLB was good
you got lucky on your team, or they didn't start pushing you as an intern. amazon is known for horrible wlb
the worst other than tiktok
servicenow is gonna be fine
tribal rampart
you got lucky on your team, or they didn't start pushing you as an intern. amazo...
I worked in amazon robotics, a wholly owned subsidiary of Amazon inc
tardy geode
Anybody know how servicenow work life balance is? Just got an offer
if you don't mind can you share your resume in #1019675142248468601 ?
heavy trout
Anybody know how servicenow work life balance is? Just got an offer
seems chill
tribal rampart
Phew
neon perch
Superstar rajini 🔥
chilly burrow
Anybody know how servicenow work life balance is? Just got an offer
I've heard it's overall p good
Congrats
ServiceNow is v good
tribal rampart
Yeah New grad, didn’t apply with referral
tribal rampart
ServiceNow is v good
Thanks mate
Which location would you guys choose amongst - Santa Clara (California), Kirkland (Washington), San Diego (California)
Won’t it be harder to switch companies
tribal rampart
Now please stop recruiting.
Not a good idea to settle with one offer tbh during this time
indigo storm
Not a good idea to settle with one offer tbh during this time
well if they were 2023 grad im assuming theyre starting like next week or january
tribal rampart
Oooh I see
rain patio
Python 4 chads be like
Python 4 hasn't been released yet, but it will be thousands of times faster than C++ while abstracting away memory management and just about everything else, allowing developers to write the most optimized code possible without even trying
All games will be written in under 100k lines of python code and will be able to run on literal toasters even with ultra path tracing in 8192k resolution
obsidian crater
ok buddy
oblique harbor
Got this message in my fortune cookie today... Hopefully it means I can get a job and quit being unemployed/unpaid soon
bold pier
Anybody know how servicenow work life balance is? Just got an offer
Buy a sleeping bag for office, you might need it
torn lantern
My planning my task for next sprint ;-;
fresh mango
Not a good idea to settle with one offer tbh during this time
San Diego is cool asf bro
tardy geode
rich prairie
LMFAO
rain patio
bold furnace
fossil jewel
Now please stop recruiting.
he’s not your competition tbh, he’s only recruiting either remote or within one state lol
subtle lagoon
Considering the current market situation
Would it be fine to accept the offer for a support engineer role?
Thanks.
Ps: i did my internship at Amazon as an SDE
Been looking for a job for months.
Can't wait now...
plain goblet
Perfectly acceptable
Just keep applying for roles you want while you work
subtle lagoon
Thanks yeko
I never knew I'd would have to settle for something I donot like...
I'm not weak, but getting impatient now.
fossil jewel
Considering the current market situation
Would it be fine to accept the offer fo...
gotta make ends meet fam
rain patio
with tech how it is, should I go for a revature type contract?
grizzled bronze
Considering the current market situation
Would it be fine to accept the offer fo...
would this suport engineer role be with Amazon/AWS?
fallen fox
Considering the current market situation
Would it be fine to accept the offer fo...
if you don't have anything else lined up, take it
gleaming trellis
Considering the current market situation
Would it be fine to accept the offer fo...
What does your support engineer role do?
tardy geode
fossil jewel
job or rope
get an it job like @fallen fox
obsidian crater
@fallen fox what does 52 days mean?
subtle lagoon
would this suport engineer role be with Amazon/AWS?
No
It's with a start-up
subtle lagoon
if you don't have anything else lined up, take it
Yeah I'm going with it
subtle lagoon
What does your support engineer role do?
Working on peripheral components, chrome extensions etc
obsidian crater
with how much the word rope is thrown around here
I'm surprised that there is no rope emoji
fallen fox
<@227064594990891020> what does 52 days mean?
it's around 40 days now, 40 days until 2023 ends
and i will be unemployed for the entirety of 2023
a whole year 
obsidian crater
joever
dire gale
Hi! im 2024 grad and does anyone have Geico TDP-software engineer experience? I can’t really find its review so I want to ask about this program
grizzled bronze
No
It's with a start-up
take it regardless, you can renege if you find something better
gleaming trellis
and i will be unemployed for the entirety of 2023 <:skull4k:995072130226061352>
Wait I thought u got a side job?
fallen fox
yeah but it's not swe so it doesn't count
grizzled bronze
cedar cairn
Microsoft preparing MacBooks is pretty funny
neon perch
yeah but it's not swe so it doesn't count
@fallen fox is the 🐐
indigo storm
he’s not your competition tbh, he’s only recruiting either remote or within one ...
Im applying to every state and remote too tho
fossil jewel
Im applying to every state and remote too tho
yeah he’s applying to just one
you have 49 other states
gleaming trellis
yeah but it's not swe so it doesn't count
Remind me again what is it?
fallen fox
shit IT role
tawdry nacelle
bro tell me how I'm applying to this position and they asked me as one of the required questions "what's one of the best live events you've ever attended?"
like do I put down a concert and have them judge me for my music taste?
tardy geode
only brennan delsing can get me a job now
otherwise
fr
make @fallen fox CTO of Open AI
fallen fox
peak comet
waz
tribal rampart
only brennan delsing can get me a job now
How I feel rn
tardy geode
this is lit
tribal rampart
Prime Minister (New Grad)
tribal rampart
Did anyone hear back from meta?
Yes
tribal rampart
Mine still says "submitted" <:PepeLaugh:747509249558577181>
Wait a bit bro, I think I got it early
fathom dagger
Wdym
peak comet
i heard back - all they said was No Offer - 11 Months is getting ghosted
tribal rampart
Wdym
Ig they will go through resumes after the holidays
Is getting a steam deck oled a good idea? I’m really enticed
chilly burrow
Is getting a steam deck oled a good idea? I’m really enticed
Do you want one?
If so, then buy it
tribal rampart
Hmmm yeah but idk if I’ll regret not using it enough
tribal rampart
Do you want one?
Do you have it? You get regular use?
tribal rampart
I have an actual pc
I use a mac
lean carbon
same man thats the OG setup for those processes
tribal rampart
same man thats the OG setup for those processes
Did you play Spider-Man, T-Challa
chilly burrow
so am taking requests
RDR2 is good
fair leaf
so am taking requests
minecraft is good as well
earnest parcel
League of legends
forest elk
no
neon perch
Get a ps5
rain patio
Dark souls 3 is sucking me in again lol
I played it for almost 250 hours before getting bored, but that's only because I used the same build the whole time. Now I'm experimenting with different builds and also trying to get the quests done. The game has so much stuff to do
obsidian crater
what is your build fart lord
rain patio
I basically made the tankiest character possible lol. I would use a greatshield in one hand and an ultra greatsword in the other while wearing that super stone Havel armor
I'd just wait for enemies to attack me and get stunned when their weapons bounce off my shield, then i'd flatten them with my 15 foot long greatsword lmao
Downside is I had to spend an absurd amount of time grinding levels to be strong enough to wear all that stuff, and even then my build is so slow and sucks in pvp
rain patio
Yeah i never really learned how to dodge the first time i played ds3 lmao
I just made my character tanky and tried to power through everything
I really struggled with the twin princes until i figured out that i can enchant my shield to block more lol
Some kind of sorcery spell or something
cloud zinc
I basically made the tankiest character possible lol. I would use a greatshield ...
Based
rain patio
Now i'm finding out that you don't need to be level 200+ to beat the game if you invest your levels properly 😂
cloud zinc
Tank build and greatsword are my goto
rain patio
I hear that the hollowslayer greatsword is really good, so I'll try a hybrid str/dex buuld with that sword
obsidian crater
lol malenia from elden ring whill whack you if you can't dodge
rain patio
i never got that far in elden ring lol
got bored 😭
the world is just so big yet so empty
it's just walking simulator
they really should have done another pass before releasing the game
in skyrim, you literally have to fight to be left alone even in the middle of nowhere because the game has so many caves and dungeons and bandits and whatnot roaming everywhere. Elden ring feels like dark souls 3 amount of content spread out over more area
like too little jam spread over too much bread
vague dune
I am in a predicament. I have one new grad job offer, but the salary is too low for my liking. I will need to accept/decline the offer soon (1-2 weeks).
In September, I had a first round interview with another company (company 2). I was told that the recruiter would share the notes he took about me to the hiring manager at a meeting in the end of November and then the hiring manager will contact me directly if they like me. Still haven't heard from the hiring manager yet.
Can I ask company 2 approximately what the salary for the role would be at this stage in the hiring process without burning bridges? Is it bad practice to ask that? Can I also tell them I have another offer deadline soon and would at least like to know if they are willing to move forward sometime in the near future?
I want to ask because if the salary for company 2 is higher than my current offer AND the hiring manager wants to move forward, I can safely turn down my current job offer. Otherwise, I would have to accept my current job offer and then leave after 2-3 months if I later find out the salary from company 2 is significantly higher, which could burn bridges and make me look bad to company 1. Or I would have to stay at company 1 and feel guilty that I wasn't more patient for company 2.
solemn spire
Wish I could relate and answer to that saying use company 1 as leverage
neon perch
Happy thanksgiving guys
cyan marsh
do y’all think December 23 grads could apply for 2025 new grad roles 💀
or would that already be considered having experience
pseudo wagon
or would that already be considered having experience
you are not considered new grad one year after graduating
pseudo wagon
well maybe not expired
pine topaz
as this channel like to say
pseudo wagon
but companies will want you have gotton some kind of experience
rain patio
do y’all think December 23 grads could apply for 2025 new grad roles 💀
Yes
That is my plan
rain patio
bold pier
https://tenor.com/view/cat-sad-blade-runner-gif-27204562
Interlocked
plain bronze
Happy Thanksgiving 🍁🦃
earnest summit
Happy thanksgiving
Just got an email about my only interview and I fucked it up 😓
elfin flint
Me just tryna enjoy the holidays but finding a job is back in the mind
This Thanksgiving is even colder
elfin flint
https://tenor.com/view/gosling-sad-gosling-ryan-gosling-blade-runner-snow-goslin...
Deep
earnest summit
Guys. We are gonna make it…
past hound
wagmi
cinder lake
Anyone get a call from united airlines?
steep cove
pseudo wagon
This Thanksgiving is even colder
lol not at all here in the NYC metro area
I went out walking with just a shirt out
It was shockingly warm for late november
elfin flint
lol not at all here in the NYC metro area
I didn't mean physically
pseudo wagon
oooh lol
elfin flint
gleaming trellis
Just got an email about my only interview and I fucked it up 😓
Got an email about your only interview and you F it up? Wdym?
tardy geode
Just got an email about my only interview and I fucked it up 😓
today ?! recruiters working on holiday's ?!
proper violet
how long does exoduspoint take to get back
also has anyone heard what wlb is with them
minor lagoon
does anyone know what hiring process for it positions usually are like
earnest summit
Got an email about your only interview and you F it up? Wdym?
Heard back from my only one ***
earnest summit
today ?! recruiters working on holiday's ?!
Yesterday at like 10 pm haha
It’s fine though, now I’m not in limbo waiting for the result. I would be studying over the break for final if they didn’t get back to me
minor lagoon
I think i may have been targeted by a hiring scam but not sure
anyone have experience with that kind of stuff
tacit oak
fallen fox
pseudo wagon
i just realized wagmi is from the crypto world
and considering the state of crypto rn
loud star
plain goblet
Are you guys leetcoding everyday?
I stopped for a while due to not getting interviews since graduating
Might pick it back up but also not sure if should focus on something else instead
fossil jewel
you can do it in conjunction with other resume improving stuff
tbh i haven’t leetcoded in a while
even tho i should
earnest summit
You never know when you might get an interview so keep ur skills sharp so u don’t gotta cram
tardy geode
Are you guys leetcoding everyday?
I stopped for a while due to not getting inter...
bruh LC is so 2021 , do system design
misty hawk
how long have u guys been applying and looking for new grad roles
hey can i dm?
cobalt yarrow
I have a question for you guys
Have 2023 grads had any success getting interviews for 2024 new grad positions, or are you discriminated against compared to 2024 grads?
Wondering bc I may have to do this in 2025 as a 2024 grad…
gentle oriole
Have 2023 grads had any success getting interviews for 2024 new grad positions, ...
half and half id say (source, got hired as '23 grad this szn)
cobalt yarrow
half and half id say (source, got hired as '23 grad this szn)
do you think there is some discrimination with that or do recruiters not care? also, what did you fill your gap with?
rain patio
solemn spire
How is it end of november already wtf
bold pier
bruh LC is so 2021 , do system design
bruh system design is so 2022, do woodworking
past hound
Have 2023 grads had any success getting interviews for 2024 new grad positions, ...
Yes, I got a offer (and I have accepted it) as a May 2023 grad.
Although, yea, in general, they for sure discriminate based on graduation date.
cobalt yarrow
Although, yea, in general, they for sure discriminate based on graduation date.
What makes you say that? It could also be this cycle being miserable (even for 2024 grads like me)
past hound
What makes you say that? It could also be this cycle being miserable (even for 2...
In my company's case, they have two start dates. One in January and one in July if I remember correctly. Makes sense to prioritize interviewing the january starts first.
Also, company's don't care.
if you didn't land a job during the usual cycle
I still got a offer despite that, so I guess it wasn't really a factor, but some companys probably do care.
Just apply
Is all I can say
You never know
Worse they can do is reject you
Not gonna get blacklisted or whatever for something like that
< 1 year after graduation is typically when you are still considered a new grad
^
pseudo wagon
@past hound I have a question on your project
cobalt yarrow
I was thinking about it because it might be worth to take a worse offer rn and interview for 2025 and potentially switch, bc it seems like it’s hard to get a job these days in 0-2 years
pseudo wagon
u said you had real clients right?
so did you include any metrics on it?
like if you increased productivity for that client by a certain percentage, or you made them a certain amount of money
I was talking to my former unpaid software engineering job manager and he has another gig for me
but this time I can convince him to pay me for it, and I'll try to get a contract out of him by making him hire me on upwork
I'll meet him for lunch and talk about it with thim this sunday
but I hear a lot of conflicting information about this online, like hiring managers don't like it if you freelance
like they think you won't be serious on your full time job with them
@lunar sonnet just curious, have you been on the hiring comitee before?
oh kk lol, I feel like eventually you'll lead ur own department
you seem very knowlegable
pine topaz
tacit oak
urban flicker
How long is average time after a recruiter phone to hear back from them ?
hard wind
at least by friday next week (<14 days)
pseudo wagon
How long is average time after a recruiter phone to hear back from them ?
1 week usually
in my experience on average
but it could take like 2 days to 2 weeks depends on demand for the position
wary hawk
but this time I can convince him to pay me for it, and I'll try to get a contrac...
good for getting more jobs on upwork too. I'm pretty sure freelance is pretty much onlu positive especoally at entry level, if the job is in office they arent going to be concerned as much
pseudo wagon
^^ thanks
wary hawk
I got a job offer from a upwork job once cause they liked my work
solemn spire
Any good amazon deals today tho? What you guys bought?
mellow glade
fallen fox
@solemn spire Rope 1/2 Inch 50 Feet Jute Rope, Heavy Duty Jute Rope,Natural Hemp Rope, Twisted Hemp Rope for Crafts, Gardening, Bundling, Climbing, Hammock, Nautical, Tug of War, Railings, Home Decorating
rain patio
https://tenor.com/view/cat-sad-blade-runner-gif-27204562
bro this gif is too good 😭
earnest summit
I’m so scared for mid level interviews
cloud zinc
I have a week to prepare for my phone interview with liberty mutual for their techstart program
Anything I should know about the screening process?
I have it on good authority that they're big enough to send out coding challenges for the next couple of rounds
bold pier
https://tenor.com/view/cat-sad-blade-runner-gif-27204562
I drive
forest scarab
no job and just got broken up with 🥲
slender axle
Have 2023 grads had any success getting interviews for 2024 new grad positions, ...
The chewy recruiter at the career fair literally said it was "past my time"
so yeah
not great perception
several companies autoreject for 2023 grad
but not everyone, just a fraction
vapid oasis
no job and just got broken up with 🥲
golden agate
no job and just got broken up with 🥲
hit the gym and get back to Leetcoding
neon perch
Are you guys leetcoding everyday?
I stopped for a while due to not getting inter...
What’s leetcode?
neon perch
Is it something many people do outside uni work?
golden agate
it's usually done inside
neon perch
And is it helpful?
golden agate
no
rain patio
Anyone else find it hilarious when they see a cat with super bright and obviously colored fur that's trying to sneak up on something? Like bruh i can see you so easily, you aren't fooling anyone
blazing flame
Anyone else find it hilarious when they see a cat with super bright and obviousl...
chincilla worried about predators
versed surge
anyone ever interview with epic systems?
cloud zinc
Anyone else find it hilarious when they see a cat with super bright and obviousl...
bro you're on discord worrying about the wrong predators /s