2023_grads

[sturdy aurora]

def not 10-20 NG a day

Anyone who has 3+ YOE should be fine finding a job

[pallid kernel]

yeah i mean i just type in software developer and select entry level

and i still dont see more than 5-10

[sturdy aurora]

i see a lot lol

[pallid kernel]

what country

[sturdy aurora]

usa

[pallid kernel]

fuck

[shrewd ocean]

keyword is should be

[pallid kernel]

i hate canada!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sturdy aurora]

dont go on linkedin only

[shrewd ocean]

as most new grads dont have 3 years

[pallid kernel]

i use linkedin, indeed, and simplify

[shrewd ocean]

same

[tardy geode]

should i hide my current employer for these ng roles ? (i graduated in may '23)

2 months

its garbage , toxic and they have no clue what the fuck they do and want to do

[past hound]

Yea, main problem is LinkedIn's search is so trash and recruiters actively being dishonest and annoying with their posts.

[tardy geode]

so when to mention it ?

[pallid kernel]

yeah

[obsidian crater]

lmao

[tardy geode]

and what if in the recruiter call i am asked "what are you doing currenttly?"

i am international

for the current employer?

can throw in 2 points

they don't sponsor hence

i mean fr they dont

but i fear i might be resume rejected coz of mentioning it

FFS i want to get out of this bs of a company so bad

[neon perch]

I’m in the same boat

[tardy geode]

do you mention your current firm ?

[neon perch]

So what I do is I emphasize on the company values and stuff how it aligns with my goals and aspirations and then I mention in the end that to continue developing advancements in the US tech sector id need sponsorship in the future which is also why I am on the looking for a new role

[shrewd ocean]

what if u put ur current employer but just say its a contract

[neon perch]

Yes

[tardy geode]

see umm i have the reason , that they don't sponsor

but

my question is

should one mention it or hide

[vital meteor]

how do you have 3 YOE, 2nd degree?

[final ore]

have you seen visa careers? not even a single role is going to provide sponsorship

[tardy geode]

i am not talking about visa

[neon perch]

For you I would suggest 2 things:

1. List it as an intern or contract
2. Leave it out: I noticed that when I was adding the firm to my resume when I had not been with them for more than 3 months I got 0 call backs as you’re likely going to be looked at as a job hopper

[tardy geode]

i am talking about ng roles in general

[final ore]

ahh!

[neon perch]

Make 2 sets. For ng add it only if your current exp really elevates your profile listing it as an intern or something else don’t add it

For junior roles add it

[tardy geode]

if you list it out as intern or contract , what would you provide the proof of it being intern or contract?

when in fact its FT

[neon perch]

Good question. I believe for the background check they ask you to fill in the details about it and the manager gets something to review your performance or something afaik

[tardy geode]

review performance ?! , do they even contact ?!

[neon perch]

Yes

[tardy geode]

dude my comany is so fucking BS that they would fucking outright lie so that i don't get to leave

[neon perch]

But that’s all they verify. Just a performance review from your manager

[tardy geode]

what the ? really ?!!! do you have a concrete confirmation on this ? as i have heard they just take the info for the sake of it

[neon perch]

I don’t think they ask if it’s contract or non contract but safe side to not list it as that

[neon perch]

Yes 100% sure about this.

[tardy geode]

wtf

dude i might not even list this bs of a company for exp roles then

[neon perch]

If your current manager goes to the lengths of lying about your performance you’d always certainly be contacted in case something comes up in your background check to clarify I think

[tardy geode]

they just ask a reference not supervisor or seomthing

[neon perch]

I’m not sure about this tho

[neon perch]

Yes a POC in the company that you have worked with directly

Your manager sounds like a jackass

[tardy geode]

the whole company is a jackass

right from the ceo

all indians , not being racist or something . its very orthodox

like the ceo thinks its a factory and we are factory workers

[neon perch]

I get you man

[tardy geode]

has no fucking clue of wha

ts going on

just throws money on things to get done without knowing what would be the outcoome

[neon perch]

Idk why they make life so miserable for others

[tardy geode]

what if i not mention the current firm and when asked "what are you currently doing " i answer i am volunteering

[neon perch]

If they ask where are you volunteering then?

[tardy geode]

would they ask me for its proof or something ?

[neon perch]

They might tbh just to ask for the sake of it

[sturdy aurora]

btw, idk where to post this

[tardy geode]

ik a few names

@neon perch

[sturdy aurora]

but google is looking at new grads this month or later this fall

but they're going to be open for at max

3 days

cause they're expecting a mass of applications

[tardy geode]

by mass you mean 10k in one hour ig

[neon perch]

In that case I think volunteering is the best answer

[sturdy aurora]

some guy at my uni already made a bot to apply on alert

[neon perch]

If Google NG is open for a day it’ll reach 2k minimum

[tardy geode]

2k lol

no

5k

[neon perch]

They should open it for 5 mins

[tardy geode]

so bottomline : don't mention current employer and tell them you are volunteering and gtfo

[neon perch]

Yessir

[tardy geode]

correct?

thanks

[sturdy aurora]

they got 60K in 1 day

IIRC

[neon perch]

FUCKK

[tardy geode]

💀

F

[past hound]

Look at how Netflix got 1000+ before the day even ended.

[neon perch]

Bruh how many people are in the market rn

[sturdy aurora]

google is an extremity

[obsidian crater]

A lot

[sturdy aurora]

very high extremity

[tardy geode]

may 2023 grads , dec 2022 grads , aug 2023 grads , dec 2023 grads , may 2024 grads

[past hound]

2023 grads, 2024 grads, and unemployed people with 1-2 years from FAANG and other places.

[tardy geode]

these many

oh also these

Amazon eng coz of rto

💀

[neon perch]

Holy fucking shit man

[sturdy aurora]

amazon NG is open rn

[tardy geode]

Almost half of amazon is looking for other roles where there is no 5 day rto

💀

[past hound]

The number of open positions has also decreased

by a lot

[gusty geode]

Good news is most of them are unqualified i bet

But it’s still shit

[tardy geode]

who said

[neon perch]

I almost fell for it

[gusty geode]

There are not 60k qualified people applying to google in one day

[pulsar cloud]

it's open for the warehouse not swe

[sturdy aurora]

the issue is if you apply late u get skipped

[tardy geode]

i checked out their site

[neon perch]

I’m sure many of them are not even in the US right now but just apply in case

[past hound]

Short supply of jobs, and high demand for jobs. It is a employer's market.

[gusty geode]

that’s why it sucks. First come first serve

[willow sedge]

anyone wanna look at my newest resume 👉 👈

[obsidian crater]

🪢

[past hound]

more like a prio queue

[sturdy aurora]

interviews are just SAT word problems

[glass swan]

I'll be graduating in December 2023 with MS in Computer Science. I'm actively applying to fulltime job opportunities. Can anybody please suggest the best portals/jobboards (except LinkedIn) where I can apply to jobs.

[sturdy aurora]

everywhere

[gusty geode]

If u have any internship experience and a degree in CS you are more qualified than most applicants. Definitely plenty of people who think CS is easy and are just applying. You’d be surprised how many people don’t have basic interviewing skills

[tardy geode]

mate thats the only job board decent

[sturdy aurora]

indeed, google, simplify, etc

handshake

[sturdy aurora]

no, there's a ton of internal job boards

uni ones, program-specific ones

ik some companies go through batches between their app sources

[gusty geode]

Best place to apply is company websites. Job boards are black holes now

At least u get some response back

[willow sedge]

i posted my resume in #1019675142248468601 pls id love advice

[gusty geode]

LinkedIn is the worst there will be 800 people applying to a role in 3 hours. Just very little chance

[heavy reef]

What, no way?

[sturdy aurora]

im trolling

[past hound]

cap

[sturdy aurora]

SWE II is the lowest position at Amazon rn

for front end IIRC

1-2 YOE req

[obsidian crater]

Amazon NG is open

Operations Finance

[sturdy aurora]

if ur in financ ern

ur set

so many free roles

[obsidian crater]

tech is over

[sturdy aurora]

nah

just oversaturated entry rn

mid+ is fine

if ur mobile, ur fine

[heavy reef]

Fuck me, time to leverage my two other degrees.

CS now worthless.

Ngl, I was about to go to law school.

I had everything ready to click the submission button.

T14 or bust.

I technically can, they last up to five years.

But I don't want to work in the field anymore.

[gusty geode]

Why not?

[heavy reef]

Wasn't a good culture fit, saw how depraved it could be, no empathy, too much about money, no learning or creativity.

Couldn't see myself doing it for the rest of my life anymore.

[swift falcon]

it's so over

[swift falcon]

https://tenor.com/view/negative-gun-water-over-it-bad-mood-gif-5581425

[rain patio]

yo what happend to the T - X days dude?

was today his last day? is he ok?

[burnt orchid]

He has vanished.

[rain patio]

oh no

noooooooooooooooo

i hope he's ok 😭

[bold pier]

Omg

[burnt orchid]

3 hrs

Its over

[tardy geode]

wait , i can't do this coz in bg check they will ask SSN and i get paid(its shit pay but i get paid so paystubs)

FML

FUC

[ornate cliff]

Hey guys if anyone has any ideas on effective coping mechanisms for once September rolls around and there are still no new job posts, my DMs are open and I would really appreciate your input

[fallen fox]

https://tenor.com/view/anime-rope-loop-gif-25246066

[ornate cliff]

3 more years? im good

[rain patio]

@gentle peak brooooooooooooooo

[tardy geode]

https://tenor.com/view/rakeitoop-rokeitup-dj-khaled-surf-gif-21792750

omw to all new grad posts

[golden agate]

I wish. I barely made it out my undergrad with a 2.0

[solemn spire]

https://tenor.com/view/kung-fu-nuts-kung-fu-training-pain-endurance-gif-7886249

[grizzled bronze]

if not this september, then the next will be better

[solemn spire]

What I wanna do to myself

[grizzled bronze]

yes

[golden agate]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU9JoFKlaZ0&ab_channel=GreenDay on repeat

[grizzled bronze]

OMSCS

[rain patio]

based

[rain patio]

have sex do drugs get into fights

[willow sedge]

my friend at paypal gave me some good resume advice 😊

[tardy geode]

can't get either

[bold pier]

I volunteer

[bold pier]

to fight I mean

is that a counter strike map?

[tardy geode]

[manic wedge]

"many" 🫠

[burnt orchid]

[shrewd ocean]

hs internship + uni internship + startup + working full time with school with school on the side, it took an extra year to graduate tho

[burnt orchid]

I shoulda interned back when i was in highschool, then id be able to land a 5 YOE entry lvl job

[manic wedge]

me at this point

[whole berry]

absolutely us

[shrewd ocean]

entry suppose to be zero tho 😩

[burnt orchid]

Not in this market

[shrewd ocean]

yeah fr

[gleaming trellis]

some company specified internship doesn’t count as experience lol

[shrewd ocean]

those companies arent for entry level tho

[neon perch]

Woah actually seeing a lot of ng/entry jobs now

[obsidian crater]

where

[heavy reef]

Costar rejected me twice for two positions at 12 am two days in a row.

[heavy reef]

But you know what. They're going to the career fair for my uni this Fall and I am going to fucking make them regret rejecting me twice in a row. I'll be able to do LC hards at that point, fuck you, Costar.

I feel like I'm in the second stage of grief.

Fuck all you fucking companies for rejecting me, I'm going to work so hard you're going to fucking regret not giving me a chance.

[swift falcon]

wakin up to rejection

[brave forge]

Lol same life hard time to grind lc

[rain patio]

https://tenor.com/view/canticos-not-gonna-make-it-not-going-to-make-it-ngmi-were-not-going-to-make-it-gif-25635049

[tacit grove]

wait today/yesterday?

[tardy geode]

still dry

[swift falcon]

a glimmer of hope today

some ng full time jobs posted

2 applicants

maybe I’ll get chosen

https://tenor.com/view/the-claw-toy-story-gif-5108112

[rotund portal]

https://boards.greenhouse.io/ziprecruiter/jobs/4861030?utm_source=Simplify&gh_src=Simplify#app

ZipRecruiter new grad, 2023 grads are also eligible

[fallen fox]

https://tenor.com/view/aintnoway-gif-27058877

[rotund portal]

what company

[fallen fox]

it's from the link you posted

[vital meteor]

that reads like a rejection email

[fallen fox]

[vital meteor]

[rotund portal]

WTF I LITERALLY POSTED IT RIGHT AFTER I APPLIED

NO WAY

ohh at the top

tough

[tardy geode]

so for seatgeek ng , may 2023 grads and before are not eligible ?

[bold pier]

Just apply

[ornate cliff]

Hello September

[grizzled bronze]

their seats are stinky anyway

[cold pawn]

that's their old posting though

for Zip

[neon perch]

Fuck sofi man

Tf is wrong with them

[sturdy forge]

What happened

[tacit grove]

@bold pier funniest person on this server award def goes to you

[swift falcon]

applied to like the perfect position

https://tenor.com/view/panicking-nervous-breathe-in-breathe-out-paper-bag-gif-16689250

huffing hopium to stay alive rn

[neon perch]

I genuinely got a perfect score for their OA, submitted it with 30 mins to spare

And not even a recruiter screen

Why do they send the OA then if they’re just gonna reject even after the candidate writes good code

What a jackass of a company

[past hound]

This is what a lot of companies are currently doing.

Completing the OAs only gets someone to look at your resume if you are lucky

[tacit grove]

guys literally didn't find any new openning today

what is goinig on

it's been like this for the past week or so

😭😭😭

[tardy geode]

this long weekend is a time to reset your mind and go all in for the upcoming season

hope its better than the storm that has been brewing since last november

[halcyon topaz]

theres been some new openings

maybe im just late

[vital meteor]

Is Monday holiday in US too

[solemn spire]

Where are the emails

[tardy geode]

TELL THEM TO BRING OUT ALL THE EMAILS

https://tenor.com/view/rakeitoop-rokeitup-dj-khaled-surf-gif-21792750

[marble ivy]

mobile only hires seniors

[violet topaz]

seatgeek app was asking for preferences and mobile was one of em

[tardy geode]

can i learn springboot directly?

or should i first learn Spring and then go at it

?

can't believe i am asking this since i hate java but i am forced to as i see shit ton of job opneings wantinfg springboot and shit

[cold pawn]

Spring Boot is just a framework which makes it easier to create and configure your Spring applications, it's build on top of Spring Framework.

Plus nobody uses pure Spring Framework anymore other than companies with super legacy code. If you do Spring without Spring Boot, you will do unnecessary sufferings and waste of time

[high cradle]

So ur saying once you secured an entry level and work there long enough to be senior, ur chilling?

[tardy geode]

so i go directly on springboot ?

Core Java -> Springboot

[cold pawn]

why not

[tardy geode]

or what the roadmap should look like ?

i just know core java

plus i heard springboot eliminates all the headaches in spring

[cold pawn]

I only knew Java a little bit before I learned Spring, it takes a lot of time to learn it relaly well because there is a lot to learn

[cold pawn]

not all but a lot of them

again, when you use Spring Boot, you are using Spring Framework + less configuration pain
Spring Boot and Spring Framework are not really separate

[tardy geode]

so springboot is basically just spring with less headache

[cold pawn]

basically

[tardy geode]

so i can directly go to springboot without wasting time on spring

[cold pawn]

you will have to learn Spring to build apps with Spring Boot, spring boot just makes it easier to configure dependencies and beans. In Spring booot you use Java code, annotations and properties, whereas in non-Spring Boot Spring you have to use XML

[obsidian crater]

yikes

[tardy geode]

what do you suggest then

[cold pawn]

I would suggest using Spring Boot

[solemn spire]

They hiding my emails

[tardy geode]

ty bro

[tardy geode]

THEY DON'T BELIEVE IN US

but

GOD DID

[tardy geode]

what is NGMI ?

[vital meteor]

[tardy geode]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-sad-gif-26415220

mood 24x7

[tardy geode]

andy jassy

please hire me

@vital meteor

i need to pay rent

[vital meteor]

I have warehouse offer for you

[final ore]

Anyone here have experience with splunk.inc?

Is ghosting kind of their company policy?

[delicate lantern]

Hey did anyone do the robot oa for new grad Roblox

[willow sedge]

yup

[delicate lantern]

I was only able to get 1 and 1 robot creation

What about you guys

[willow sedge]

i got 4 and 3

[delicate lantern]

Was there any other possible combination?

Wtf

Wait

You mean like how far you got

Or how many different types of robotics

[willow sedge]

different types

[delicate lantern]

Oh what

Lmao I’m dumb then

[willow sedge]

i got like 109k on the other one

[delicate lantern]

I got 80-90 😭

What about the leetcode what’d you get?

[willow sedge]

i play games like that in my free time lol

310 😭

[delicate lantern]

Bro also 310 😭

THAT 2nd questions

LIKE OH LORD

[willow sedge]

i just ran out of time

[delicate lantern]

Ya

[final ore]

Anyone?

They ghosted me after interviews... it's been a week since i completed em....

[tardy geode]

atleast you got an interview

[tardy geode]

[vital meteor]

@delicate lantern @willow sedge 310 it's joever

[willow sedge]

it’s been two weeks and no rejection yet lmao

[delicate lantern]

Not Juan what’d you get

And what stops me from making a new email and applying again 🫣

It’s never jover

Until I decide it’s jover :🫡

[vital meteor]

[delicate lantern]

[vital meteor]

Didn't apply yet

I've been having major copium about G, maybe I won't need to apply to anything else

[delicate lantern]

Have you heard anything from them

[vital meteor]

[rotund portal]

6 and 4

[delicate lantern]

Yo there’s no way I’m this dumb

Did we have the same course

I tried every combination

[rotund portal]

i had the one with mines and another one with the tree and other robots attacking u

[delicate lantern]

Oh I had a different one

Mine was snow and trees

And then ruins and a dessert

[rotund portal]

maybe that one had less solutions

[delicate lantern]

[tardy geode]

Manish is goated

[rotund portal]

what did u get on the factory? i only got 72k, i hear people getting like 150k

i hope its not weighing me down

[tardy geode]

Manish bro what's the secret to get calls

[delicate lantern]

I got 80-90k

[tardy geode]

[delicate lantern]

Mannish you getting calls 👀

From where

[tardy geode]

yeah check #2023_grad_process

[delicate lantern]

Damn palantir oa

[rotund portal]

everything that's worked out so far for me is bcuz of referrals

well except for Epic

[tardy geode]

what kind of referrals?

[heavy reef]

I'm no longer mad anymore from all the rejections, I'm just crying.

[tardy geode]

is some Staff SWE or EM referring you

or is it a random swe?

[heavy reef]

Another day in this nightmare of no job.

[tardy geode]

i mean like the seniority of the referral

[rotund portal]

no just general SWEs there

no not seniority

[tardy geode]

what school do you go to ?

if its fine to tell

[rotund portal]

UT Austin

[tardy geode]

well

oh 🐐

no wonder then

[rotund portal]

idt it really does much

[tardy geode]

it does

a bit

for the first gig

[rotund portal]

just praying on this september surge

[tardy geode]

i am sure you will get

[rotund portal]

we

[tardy geode]

yes

all of us

[rotund portal]

i had an interview scheduled for delta airlines but then they cancelled the job position so interview thrown out the window

[tardy geode]

may the rng gods be in our favour and we get asked two sum

[rotund portal]

https://tenor.com/view/this-is-so-sad-gif-25352430

[tardy geode]

oh man 😦

[tardy geode]

YES or NO ? , I am on a student visa (OPT)

[dusky folio]

Yes

[rain patio]

Or valid palindrome in my case 😂

[tardy geode]

ty

[solemn kite]

is stripe auto oa

[halcyon topaz]

scalabilit

[swift falcon]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9SGDpanrc8U&pp=ygUic3ByaW5nIGJvb3QgcmVzdCBwb3N0Z3JlcyB0dXRvcmlhbA%3D%3D

I had fun with this, was a good intro

[tardy geode]

yep i am doing this

good so far

[swift falcon]

haha that exact one?

[tardy geode]

yea

[swift falcon]

nice

[tardy geode]

oh wait

the other one which was uploaded 9 months ago

[swift falcon]

oh ok, same guy tho?

[tardy geode]

yea

[swift falcon]

cool

[tardy geode]

after this i would build a react + springboot full stack app

[swift falcon]

ayyy dats my plan too

just learning react rn

[tacit grove]

through youtube?

[graceful shale]

so the optiver oa really is 3.5 hours huh

[tardy geode]

[solemn kite]

anyone take the Stripe OA?

[raven warren]

It was 72 in the past

[ornate cliff]

It's September

I'm very much unemployed still

[swift falcon]

nah fullstack open mooc

[elder narwhal]

This guy is such a legend lol

[neon perch]

The positions are gonna begin from 11th September 2023 guys, bookmark this

[heavy reef]

UHHH.

[tacit grove]

positions for which companies? in general positions are going to open up on the 11th?

[neon perch]

In general

[cloud zinc]

really hope shit works out in the fall. just got rejected from okcoin

[obsidian crater]

same

[swift falcon]

what if we made linkedin without staffing firms our recruiters

[cloud zinc]

Linkedin chrome extension: remove feed page

Society has progressed beyond the need for job-centric social media

[tacit grove]

Really really hope things open up from the 5th onwards 😓

[swift falcon]

why not the 2nd?

[tacit grove]

It's the long weekend

[vapid oasis]

Same

Anyone got accepted?

[swift falcon]

damn september alr abt to be over

[vital meteor]

Oct is gonna be crazy

[ornate cliff]

[swift falcon]

I need a doomfest rh rn

[past hound]

ngmi

[narrow harbor]

we would've made it already if we were gonna make it

ngmi

[swift falcon]

if we wanted to we would have

[rain patio]

I got 4 messages from Indeed today. Haven't seen one of those in months

Market is getting better!?

[rain patio]

it ain't over till the fat lady sings

[swift falcon]

the fat lady sang a year ago

I can't wait to see this sit for a month and blow up to like 500 applicants

[tardy geode]

https://youtu.be/yIR3NU3P_bU?si=rpJZZVe6BdQVgulC

this is the most random shit i have seen

[coral finch]

should go to Ohio

[tardy geode]

i have so many questions smh

[cold pawn]

damn this thing's horns are so huge

didn't know that bulls can be so huge

[rain patio]

LMAO THIS IS HILARIOUS

[willow sedge]

lmao my friend told me about that last night and i didn’t believe it 😆

[tacit grove]

@tardy geode fingers crossed for the application traffic light to turn green this coming Tuesday 🙏🙏🙏

[rain patio]

absolute chad just taking his pet bull for a ride

[prime palm]

@atomic canopy dm me

[radiant juniper]

Anyone get the stripe OA yet?

I got a referral a few days ago and j been waiting like usual haha

[stray lark]

Did anyone do stripe OA?

How is it

[cold pawn]

today I did an interview with a local Baskin Robbins for an ice cream maker role, and they asked LC hards and required me to be from a top school

it's joever

[pure flame]

I have a question
Should I put my Teaching assistant position for discrete structures and an organizer position for a state wide hackathon under my experiences or should I just keep my internships there for my resume

[swift falcon]

all the bootcampers are laughing at us

they got jobs while were getting degrees

[willow sedge]

thank you new ad blocker for getting rid of all promoted shit on linkedin

[normal remnant]

If I don't choose a master degree. I would find a better job in a better market.

sad

[swift falcon]

the only issue with that, is that it can block some important jobs, so I ended up taking it off tbh

[willow sedge]

yeah but when searching for past 24 hours it gets annoying

[fossil jewel]

since you're good at predicting, what stocks should i invest in

[normal remnant]

I just realized that the choices I made since 6 years ago may be wrong...

I choose material science as my major in my first year.

[swift falcon]

bro if I had half of the knowledge I had right now six years ago I'd have stopped at bachelor's and hit practical skills super hard

would have gotten hired someplace in 2021 probably

hindsight is 20/20 I guess

but what about foresight?!?!

[neon perch]

Get some worldcoin crypto

[sour epoch]

would work on a farm but i only have 1 yoe shoveling crap

[swift falcon]

u need an agricultural science degree

or dairy science etc

[arctic orchid]

This is some final boss shit

[rain patio]

https://tenor.com/view/canticos-not-gonna-make-it-not-going-to-make-it-ngmi-were-not-going-to-make-it-gif-25635049

[quartz saffron]

Hey everyone! I wanted to share something cool I've been working on. It's called HackMails, an open-source email automation tool. 💌

You can check it out here: https://hackmails.com

HackMails makes email outreach super easy and efficient. Whether you're job hunting or managing email campaigns, it's designed to save you time and effort.

The project is open source, and you can find the code on GitHub: https://github.com/yassineatik/HackMails

Feel free to explore, contribute, or share your thoughts. Let's make email automation more accessible and fun!

[solemn spire]

Which ad blocker

[solemn spire]

Boot campers are landing jobs rn?

[solemn spire]

Are you the one helping these Indian recruiting companies to send bulk emails?

[quartz saffron]

Not really , I just made this yesterday

[solemn spire]

Im just playing man

[quartz saffron]

hahahaha that's cool bro

[solemn spire]

2022 grad process is nuked

[past hound]

We are next

[neon perch]

How do they actually send so many emails tho I’m curious

[shut thistle]

there are softwares

[bold pier]

They have satellites

New York can suck my toes, worst place to find a home for rent in the entire world

Who the fuck pays 1800 for pigeon hole wtf

[cloud zinc]

Stg if there are no entry level roles in the upcoming career fair

[rain patio]

That would be so dumb lol. Why even have a career fair at a college at that point?

Wouldn't put it past some companies to do that lol

[burnt orchid]

I went to one and one of the companies literally said they dont have any open roles atm

Why they even there at this point

[rain patio]

Lollll

[lost ether]

Recruiting for 2025

[gleaming trellis]

2021 grad still here?

Did you find a job in your major since u graduated?

[ornate cliff]

Bro just start your masters at this point

[rain patio]

if ur a US citizen, find smaller government contracting companies to apply to. They're hard to find since they don't usually advertise positions outside their main websites, which tend to be hard to find unless you know the company name. But I found this website that seems pretty legit. The data for the defense company that I applied to checks out on this website. The UI is horrible, but the "search by zipcode" page is a bit better than the other pages on here. https://www.governmentcontractswon.com/default.asp#zipcode

Look for areas in your state that have received a boat load of government funding and click on the link for those areas to see what companies are based there. Chances are, you'll find a lesser-known defense company that you can apply to and have a reasonable chance of getting into

[marble ivy]

Oh no i had a job and then got laid off and then joined another company where i am earning peanuts

So i’m still looking

[brave forge]

Didn’t you join that bank in nyc

[ornate cliff]

Then why you applying to new grad?

[hardy cypress]

https://tenor.com/view/canticos-not-gonna-make-it-not-going-to-make-it-ngmi-were-not-going-to-make-it-gif-25635049

[brave forge]

Lmao taking all our jobs

[ornate cliff]

Bro we already competing with 2024 that's enough

[rain patio]

just become a senior dev ez

fr tho idk how they expect everyone to be a senior dev lol

eventually all the seniors will retire, and there won't be much of a supply of new seniors

I swear this is a textbook case of the Tragedy of the Commons

No one wants to train people, but they all want senior devs. The senior devs are running out because there aren't many new ones to replace the old ones since no one is training more devs

[narrow harbor]

what are yall doing here on a saturday

[rain patio]

It's like a pond full of big and small fish at a zoo or something. The big fish are the seniors, and the small ones are basically everyone else.

Fishermen (tech companies) feed the big fish to fatten them up so that they'll be bigger and bring them more money (people pay more to see bigger fish because big fish are cool). But the fishermen don't give the small fish more food since they care more about short term gains. Why feed a bunch of little fish and wait a few years for them to get big when you can just keep feeding the big fish and make them even bigger?

Eventually, the big fish will die (retirement), and the fishermen will have to scramble to fatten up the remaining fish. But they'll always tend to feed the big fish over the small fish because they care about their short term profits more.

[brave forge]

Bored af

[rain patio]

terrible because I caught a bad cold yesterday

lol

I'm chugging lemon and honey water and popping cough drops all day

I would buy cold medicine, but it's $16 for a bottle and it doesn't really help me that much anyway 😭

fr what is up with me

[brave forge]

just steal it from walmart

[oblique harbor]

Anyone else get emails everyday with this exact same sentence? "After careful consideration, we have chosen not to proceed with your application at this time."

[past hound]

yea

most of us here are in that situation

[brave forge]

All of us lmao

20 times per day

[marble ivy]

cuz professional jobs want 3 years minimum? u dumb or something?

what else am i supposed to apply too

[swift falcon]

I can never leave this hell of my own creation

https://tenor.com/view/jail-locked-up-prison-in-prison-prisoner-gif-15853356

[ornate cliff]

2+ YOE https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/3706433712

Took me 10 seconds to find

Let me know if you need more help

[ornate cliff]

1+ YOE https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/3693340247

I don't see any JavaScript... Resume screened

[candid mauve]

https://www.amazon.com/Processing-Analysis-Activate-Learning-Engineering/dp/1285179528

[rain patio]

story of my life

[brave forge]

good resume

can you share the format?

[candid mauve]

look at my post above

[brave forge]

im trolling

[arctic orchid]

Just steal it

[bold pier]

2023 grads really down bad rn

[swift falcon]

We’ve done some soul searching, and we love you as a candidate, but unfortunately we feel very badly about this but we have decided, and we’re very considerate of your situation and love that you applied, to not move (in no way does this reflect on your worth as a person, we love the experience you bring and are honored to have you apply) forward with continuing with your application and candidacy.

[cold pawn]

We were impressed with your skills and qualifications, but unfortunately we will be moving forwards with other candidates.

[swift falcon]

https://tenor.com/view/hold-stonk-hold-wallace-hold-braveheart-stonks-gif-20142609

[marble ivy]

don’t have 2 yoe, only 1

[marble ivy]

already applied there

[ornate cliff]

but you said you need 3+ YOE?

[marble ivy]

yeah for sure

[marble ivy]

What? I said a majority of roles want 3 yoe min.

[ornate cliff]

"majority"?

[marble ivy]

I don’t get what you don’t understand. You are better of being a new grad than having 1 yoe.

There are more new grad roles than roles that want 1 yoe and a majority of roles want 3+

[narrow harbor]

is that true, can anyone confirm this

[swift falcon]

chat is this real?

[marble ivy]

People with 1 yoe can’t apply to new grad roles and don’t have enough experience for professional roles that wants 3 yoe minimum.

[heavy reef]

Yeah, people who got laid off right as they secured a job after graduation are in the worst position.

Especially 2022 grads.

[marble ivy]

Yeah i’m at 2022 grad ^ We can’t apply for new grad roles cuz they want 2024 grads and go back to only 2023, but we didn’t get enough experience in our job to reach that 3 yoe number for most jobs

@ornate cliff So i don’t understand why you are triggered that i’m applying to new grad roles because Im gonna get auto rejected anyways, but atleast u have a chance

[ornate cliff]

you said "professional jobs want 3 years minimum"

[marble ivy]

Yes

[ornate cliff]

So the ones that are 1 or 2 YOE are not professional?

[marble ivy]

U showed me 1 job which doesn’t, that doesn’t prove anything, I’ve been searching for the past 8 months, and almost every role is new grad or wants 3+ yoe

[ornate cliff]

[swift falcon]

https://tenor.com/view/hamster-triggered-rage-shaking-gif-17789643

[narrow harbor]

whose struggle is worse

[marble ivy]

It’s bad for everyone but 21/22 grads have it way worse than 23/24 grads, not being able to apply to any new grad role is a major disadvantage

[past hound]

I mean, yea, but you had it way, way easier when you graduated.

So many jobs back in 2021/2022

Graduting into a recession is always worse than other things.

[vital meteor]

Tf why are we doing oppression Olympics now is this twitter

[past hound]

fair

Life just sucks right now

for everyone

tbf

[marble ivy]

No one is even talking about this and I never denied this, not sure what you achieve in brining this up

[marble ivy]

Ikr. @ornate cliff started this by trying to be victim and then just went completely quiet. It suck’s for everyone

[ornate cliff]

[past hound]

I am just hella salty that I didn't get the chance to get 1-2 year of experience like people in 2021/2022. Better to have some experience than fuck all and be in this situation.

But, yea,

this isn't the oppression olympics

[swift falcon]

so much potential

[narrow harbor]

you probably would've gotten rejected anywaays

jk im just projecting lmao

you right

[rain patio]

bro #2023_grads vibe is too funny

[ornate cliff]

Only 3+ YOE matters guys... it's joever

[marble ivy]

The experience is completely useless tho, no company rn is hiring ppl with 1 yoe, like I said ur better off being a new grad

[ornate cliff]

https://boards.greenhouse.io/kickstarter/jobs/4068894007?gh_jid=4068894007&gh_src=2693635b7us

[solemn spire]

or be like me, who thought applying after graduating is completely fine. ffs

[narrow harbor]

that's me, I really latched onto to that one reddit post where some dude with no exp just applied to like 10 jobs and got 100ktc with little to no prep

🤡

[solemn spire]

yea I thought the job market would be same and I can apply anytime since theres so many roles available

https://tenor.com/view/clown-gif-25799821

[swift falcon]

https://www.chairish.com/product/10407835/danish-1940s-spindle-back-lounge-chairs-in-lambswool-by-alfred-christensen-set-of-2

bruh I need a new job

I want to buy $6200 furniture

[past hound]

I started applying during the school year, but by the time I started taking it seriously, the market was already this shit.

Graduation came and went, and nothing.

[vital meteor]

Solidarity in rope

[ornate cliff]

Damn I was trying to help a brother out he started lashing out

mb

[swift falcon]

no we like zuck now coz he abt to destory elon

[narrow harbor]

that's why we group rope

group

grope

let's grope each other

[swift falcon]

fair enough

I suppose the match hasn't materialized yet

[manic wedge]

i hope every job poster on linkedin in that uses the "Entry level" filter on jobs that require like 5 yoe stubs their toe

[swift falcon]

https://tenor.com/view/so-let-it-be-written-moses-so-let-it-be-done-gif-12197331

[cloud zinc]

Then you're not a true hater

[solemn spire]

How is he gonna?

[swift falcon]

he not now

I stand corrected

elon pussed out

[vital meteor]

[rain patio]

i was hoping zucc would KO elon, and then they had a big legal battle and both their companies would tank

[solemn spire]

Elon is such a attention seeker

[narrow harbor]

what are some "easy" jobs i can get as a cs major

i dont wanna be a barista anymore

even if jt's minimum wage

[solemn kite]

run for president

[narrow harbor]

already exceeded the term limit bitch

[solemn kite]

my b, ex President George W Bush

[obsidian crater]

same same same same

it's so depressing watching my friend who has a very similar resume to mine making $150K remote and living pretty stress free

[sturdy aurora]

sep openingsoon

[obsidian crater]

I'm happy for him because he had it rough in life but so did I and I got jackshit lol

🪢

[past hound]

He living the good life

I wish

[obsidian crater]

Yeah I mean

Idk if he's living the good life

[vapid oasis]

Bitter but sweet

[obsidian crater]

But he's better than us

He told me his life is pretty depressing

[sturdy aurora]

why is #grad_postings_old locked

[obsidian crater]

Wake up at 11am and then get ready.
Work remotely from 12-8pm, sometimes later if he fucks stuff up.
Oncall sucks for him, guy kept getting woken up every few hours because of some outages in Europe

But that's the average SWE life

Eat sleep code repeat

[past hound]

I mean yea

Anything is better than being unemployed though

[obsidian crater]

He told me his life feels empty and meaningless

remote is nice yeah

company is amazon-lite though so

[vapid oasis]

Does he work in Amazon?

[obsidian crater]

not amazon

but his company is mostly made up of poached amazon managers / swe

so yeah

🪢

yes

[solemn kite]

you could be living someone's dream life and still feel this tbf

[obsidian crater]

I mean yeah

Doing a 9-5 is pretty depressing

When I was an intern I would commute 1 hour to work and back and then do the 9-5

I hated it so much even though the industry was meaningful (medical devices / scientific research ish)

[rain patio]

yeah 9-5 is boring af, u need stuff outside of work to look forward to

[past hound]

u need stuff outside of work to look forward to

[cold pawn]

eat sleep wake up repeat

[past hound]

this tbh

[obsidian crater]

True

[cold pawn]

perfect WLB is 3-4 hrs per day max

of work

[solemn spire]

This part of my life is called …

[obsidian crater]

I feel that

Amazon hired a few grads from my school last year, a lot of them got massacred in the great SWE layoffs of 22-23

I don't feel bad for them though because a few of them were cheaters and didn't get caught

[burnt orchid]

I only know one guy who graduated may 2023 still with amazon with his start delayed to February 2024

[past hound]

Bro the algo class I did (the grad/undergrad one not the one all undergrads take), so was so much cheating.

[obsidian crater]

I know

It's horrible lol

[past hound]

They didn't do anything about it

[obsidian crater]

I know this guy that cheated in intro to security and then got a job at Google

To be fair, he got caught and had to make up for it.

[past hound]

So many people were talking during that final exam

and the TAs didn't do shit

[narrow harbor]

my school was filled with cheating

[obsidian crater]

Not gonna dox myself

[narrow harbor]

really wasn't really that hard to do it

[obsidian crater]

But the school is ranked higher than John Hopkins

According to this list

https://csrankings.org/#/index?all&us

yes

[obsidian crater]

It's Indians bro

95% of MS students are Indian at my uni

They cheat a lot

One guy got caught using his phone on my blockchain final

Professor just straightup kicked his ass out

[past hound]

Yea, the master classes I did were so bad with cheating. The undergrad classes tended to be much better though.

[obsidian crater]

He was ChatGPTing on his phone

During finals

I was too tbh

I thought I was gonna fail

I got a B+ though

I always think I'm gonna get Fs then get B+ or B

[past hound]

ride the curve

[obsidian crater]

honestly I can't blame a lot of Indian students

like it's not their fault they were born in a shithole

I'd do anything to escape that hellhole lol

1point3acres

so I know this guy

he's not here anymore (got banned)

but he got an internship at big N

by memorizing LC problems from 1p3a

for their interview

not 300

just tagged ones

he got asked those

where is nate

@rain patio

nate knows who I'm talking about

delete

idk how he did it

he's so noob at LC

[past hound]

people probably were posting the OAs and interview questions, and then people were memorizing them.

[obsidian crater]

like worse than me

[marble ivy]

i dont rly see anything wrong in cheating to be completely honest, hard work and honesty doesnt rly get u anywhere, most of the ppl ik who have rly good jobs in tech cheated like crazy in college but they r more successful then ppl ik who never cheated

sure but at l5 u can still make decent money and then just switch to a manager position

most ppl dont even goto principle level, they just switch to management after 5-8 years

not true at all, i know plenty of ppl making 250k+ who cheated on basically everything in college

[gleaming trellis]

integrity is much needed in life lol

[marble ivy]

sure they do, but in this market they r gonna take the cheater with a 3.9 and referral over someone with a 3.6 who never cheated

[obsidian crater]

I feel like cheating is hated too much

Like yeah it's cheating and immoral

But life is not fair

[marble ivy]

basically this, u r putting urself at a disadvantage by not cheating

[obsidian crater]

The kid whose parents could afford to pay for CMU where mine couldn't means I'm gonna lose

Cause life just isn't fair

[marble ivy]

if u get an OA and dont know how to do the problem, its ur loss if u dont cheat on the OA

cuz u know someone else will chatgpt the OA question and pass al test cases

[obsidian crater]

You probably won't get far cheating though tbh

Someday someone will ask you about something where you have to originally think

Then gg

[ornate cliff]

but your kids will be able to go anywhere because of your hard work

[obsidian crater]

But if you wanna chill at a rest and vest company sure

[past hound]

Imagine wanting kids

[marble ivy]

yeah u wont get to principle dev but most ppl arent even aiming for that, they goto like l5/l6 max and then switch to management

[obsidian crater]

true

[rain patio]

Yep

[marble ivy]

its the truth tho

[obsidian crater]

it's true tho

I don't believe in karma

Just based on my own life lol

[marble ivy]

this isnt 2021 anymore where u can still make it to the next round without getting a 100% on the OA, theres way too many ppl who r getting perfect OAs

[obsidian crater]

I know so many people that ChatGPT their OAs

I know this guy who CTRL+F's grokking system design pdf during interview LOL

[marble ivy]

load balancer!

[cold pawn]

at least you have pure heart and clear conscience

[ornate cliff]

doing this without getting busted is kinda impressive ngl

[obsidian crater]

karma is fake my guy

[past hound]

A lot of them are filled with them same people

[obsidian crater]

you think ken griffin is a better person than any of us?

[rain patio]

it’s gonna get to a point where u need an id during live interview

[cold pawn]

if you cheat your soul will go to hell for sins after death tho

[rain patio]

yea

[obsidian crater]

[cold pawn]

while it feels unfair that there are people who cheat, it would hurt my pride to cheat when there are definitely people who ace the OA without cheating

[rain patio]

hackerrank does flag stuff iirc but idk how seriously they look at that

[cold pawn]

that's why you shouldn't use ChatGPT
Bard maxxing is the way

[burnt orchid]

Its time to get a 2nd laptop

[rain patio]

haven’t tried bard for coding stuff, is it valid?

[obsidian crater]

AI/ML project to detect cheating on OAs

[cold pawn]

I asked it legit questions about C++ and it said "I'm AI so I can't help with that"

[obsidian crater]

This will get me into DeepMind

[burnt orchid]

Sometimes i wonder if its better that i couldnt fully solve the problem over fully solving it with this cheating and chatgpt stuff

[cloud zinc]

Baysed the pacing is dogshit

[rain patio]

if u cheat and don’t look back on how to solve the problem ur still fucked, same w/ not knowing how to solve it and not reflecting

[cloud zinc]

Unironically the pacing is a slow burn. There are interesting segments and arcs but it's pushed down by repetitive flashbacks and filler

[vital meteor]

i want to start OP but then i see the amount of eps

[past hound]

binge watching is the best

[rain patio]

It took me 2 years to get to 600 💀

[cold pawn]

I've only watched the sea fish arc and it was the most interesting one, tried watching the arcs before and after and it just didn't fit

[vital meteor]

if i had rubber powers, what i would stretch wouldnt be my arms

[cloud zinc]

wano is the worst arc by far. Watched from episode 1 to 1040 in an attempt to reach the gear 5 reveal and the series was still 10+ episodes behind

[cold pawn]

https://tenor.com/view/hhhhomeboyyyy-gianluca-me-reading-wtf-gif-21273156

[neon perch]

Idk about karma man but life is pretty brutal. I know someone that cheated their way through the same position I was interviewing for and they’re making bank for the last 8 months and here I am

[cloud zinc]

somebody did the math a while back and it was revealed that the series would be around 400 episodes long without filler and repetitve content

insane

[vital meteor]

what if they cheat their way to heaven

[ornate cliff]

OK cheat on the OA, what are you gonna do during all technical rounds? 😂

[burnt orchid]

"Let me pull up my notepad with chatgpt integrated in it rl quick, one moment"

types code me the algorithm on my screen

"Alright so this is what I got"

[ornate cliff]

[obsidian crater]

I don't think blinders say that

Blinders talk about system design and soft skills a lot too

In fact they mock LC monkeys

[cold pawn]

previously you could solve number of islands and you get 300k

now you solve LC hards and get 0

actually -70k/yr

from student loans

[marble ivy]

tech rounds r usually easier than the OAs

jpm - was asked hard OA, on my super day was literally asked a leetcode easy

ibm - hard oa, interviews r completely behavioral

bofa - medium oa, easy lc on actual interviews

[vital meteor]

bofa deez nutz

[marble ivy]

goldman sachs, also had a super hard oa, but asked an easy-med on the actual technical

[neon perch]

Are both TikTok coding rounds identical format?

[marble ivy]

Yes

[neon perch]

I’ll Dm you?

[marble ivy]

sure

i had one phone call with recruiter, and then one behavioral 45 min, and got the offer

[obsidian crater]

Ranger has his Indian uncles at all those banks

He knows all the questions

[cold pawn]

how do they have hard OA? In my experience their OAs are all easies/medium max

[marble ivy]

Yeah it was so easy i couldn’t believe its still this easy in 2023

[marble ivy]

My tech interviews have always been easier than the OAs, many times i’ve had OAs and haven’t even gotten a technical interview

[marble ivy]

Ya

[cold pawn]

did you get an offer from bofa and goldman? how do they compare to jpmc or citi

[marble ivy]

Gl i hope so too, didn’t u have JPM too or was that someone else

[marble ivy]

Yeah in 2021 i did

goldman pays a lot more

Dang sry to hear

What wells fargo role did u apply too

U have experience right

[cold pawn]

damn didn't know
how much are citi and goldman?

[marble ivy]

goldman is 145k

nyc

[cold pawn]

damn

big bux

I thought it paid lowest

[marble ivy]

and i had to accept cuz i had nothing else

[marble ivy]

Na goldman is the best bank out of the non tech banks

how many yoe do u have again

ah ic

[cold pawn]

I have hopium in goldman again

[marble ivy]

apparently wells fargo new grad nyc is like 120k now

[cold pawn]

145 is highert han c1

[marble ivy]

c1 pays less than goldman but if i had offers from both i would choose c1

[cold pawn]

yeah crazy I'm looking forwards to fargo

[ornate cliff]

How long does Goldman take to respond after OA? Not that I stand a chance as a Canadian

[cold pawn]

does c1 look better on resume than goldman tho

bruh why so low

[marble ivy]

i have no idea

i think i applied to an entry level one that asked for 0-2 yoe

and it was in philly

did u schedule it through that wells fargo website they send u @elder forum

[obsidian crater]

🪢

[cold pawn]

SoFi vs C1 which is more prestigious

[marble ivy]

sofi

[cold pawn]

any reason

[marble ivy]

cuz sofi is tech and pays more

[cloud zinc]

Are they still open to apply?

[marble ivy]

this job asks for 6 months of exp too, new grad literally pays more

[cold pawn]

they take away salary from these people and give it to new grads

[cloud zinc]

I'm not a new grad tho

[marble ivy]

wells fargo is super laid back about their rto tho which is good

[cloud zinc]

Neato

[marble ivy]

like u can go like once every 2 weeks, they don’t track ur swipes and stuff like JPM does

[cold pawn]

I know a person in JPMC who got fired because they didn't come to work for 1 month

[marble ivy]

yeah ik it’s crazy they r taking rto way too seriously

[past hound]

Honestly, all remote or all in-person. I wouldn't prefer hybrid.

[cold pawn]

why does citi ghost me
when does it do interviews

[past hound]

Idk, at least with classes, I preferred all remote vs all in-person.

May be different with work though

[marble ivy]

classes?

[past hound]

fair point

Ok, that is different.

probably, I am still a naive unemployed may 2023 grad

[cold pawn]

everyone in this chat will get a job by december

[past hound]

I hope you're right

[cold pawn]

wagmi

[obsidian crater]

ffs

my dad told me to apply to grad school

[past hound]

Parents told me to join the military if all else fails

I'd rather rope

no joke

[cold pawn]

https://tenor.com/view/theres-something-very-familiar-about-all-this-deja-vu-i-feel-like-ive-done-this-before-this-feels-familiar-i-feel-live-ive-been-here-before-gif-16489734

[honest estuary]

then don’t fail

it’s up to u

[past hound]

I am trying

really hard not to

[arctic orchid]

Rip o(N)

Homie actually dipped discord

[bold pier]

nuuuuu

@gentle peak are you with us

[arctic orchid]

Pour one out

[bold pier]

bro got overcooked

[obsidian crater]

I am ngmi

Dad told me to do MS

🪢

[arctic orchid]

https://tenor.com/view/rip-dr-evil-homies-gif-10430138

[bold pier]

if dad paying do MS

[arctic orchid]

Dad told me samething

[obsidian crater]

Probably gonna study GRE for a bit

Try to get into CS or stats programs

Pray I get into decent uni with my shit tier GPA

[bold pier]

join NYU, they only wan't money GPA not needed

[arctic orchid]

Gc?

[obsidian crater]

nah

if I do MS I'm leaving the US

[arctic orchid]

That sounds insanely expensive

[obsidian crater]

US can take it's country cap and shove it up my ass

[bold pier]

not if family pays for it

[obsidian crater]

heh

If I'm dropping a lot of cash on a master's

[bold pier]

that's all jobs also, why hybrid, why office in nyc

[obsidian crater]

I better not be stressed 24/7 about work permits and shit

I am giving up on uncle sam

[bold pier]

you international?

[obsidian crater]

yer

[bold pier]

rip

[obsidian crater]

I'm gonna start my own quant firm

[bold pier]

do MS in SIngapore, best country

[obsidian crater]

yeah

[arctic orchid]

This

Let them find out the hard way

[obsidian crater]

Getting SG citizenship/pr is insanely hard tho

About as hard as US

[bold pier]

You gotta show them you are even harder, just pull your pants down

[obsidian crater]

lol you mean this year wasn't?

2023 was shitshow for intls too

[swift falcon]

yo what was the point of all the pain of a grad degree if I gotta sit here day in and say out

[obsidian crater]

tbh not much

grad degrees are only useful if you're switching careers or research or upgrading uni name

if not they're just a waste of money

even upgrading uni name might not be worth it

unless you are a quant simp like me

[swift falcon]

you know I kind of figured all the effort of writing master’s thesis would be like a frontload the pain and heartache for easy day after graduation

and instead I’m treated to like never ending limbo