2023_grads

[winter loom]

i did not sure what im missing lol

[jagged torrent]

“How would you like to work in an exciting and fast paced environment”

[summer olive]

Do you personally know someone? I've been hearing these news too but Im not sure how legit they are?

*someone whos got the return offer so far

Ahhh i see

[random cobalt]

Guys how are you applying to new grad positions?

Where do u find them

[shrewd ivy]

there is a github

in pinned

[young peak]

Pas ennuyeux quand votre carrière est en jeu

[grizzled bronze]

So last 2 weeks are for leetcoding

[wild pewter]

anyone take the goldman OA?

[inner prawn]

https://github.com/bsovs/NewGrad-2023

[whole berry]

somebody in here really pulled strings to get that 2023 process channel

[covert pecan]

For the amazon application how do I upload my resume? It doesn't let me go to the resume section

[vital meteor]

This is OA 0.5 resume upload

[primal pike]

Goldman application was pain

[young peak]

Guys I gotta say this for the people that are expecting this app cycle to be like last years

it isn't

Focus a lot on job security, I'm seeing a lot of people still trying to TC optimize in this situation

[keen zinc]

Yo anyone here an F1 student and got OA for Amazon 2023 new grad?

[young peak]

no hate but how does F1 matter in your situation

[supple grove]

what does TC mean?

[keen zinc]

I’m assuming candidates who need sponsorship would be less preferred if they can already fill their positions with ones who don’t need

[keen zinc]

I was assuming they’d be interviewing them at the later end of the recruitment cycle, unless someone who’s in F1 already got an OA

[young peak]

That's not really how it works. You'll make the pipeline all the same

[young peak]

Total Comp

[supple grove]

Thanks

[keen zinc]

I mean, that’s ideal, which is why I wanted to know if there’s anyone who got an OA already

[young peak]

Gotcha

I got the OA pretty early on last year FWIW

and I'm an F1 on OPT rn

[keen zinc]

Makes sense, hope for the best ig

[young peak]

It's zon bud don't worry

everyone gets a shot

if you do really well, you can even skip the entire onsite and get an offer lmfao

[keen zinc]

Yeah, are they still doing 1x30

[young peak]

Yup from what I'm reading they're still doing 1x30s

actually they've even shown to be completely skipping those altogether and just moving you forward with an offer

[primal pike]

delet dis

[young peak]

no

[young peak]

How are you doing with other companies tho

[keen zinc]

Currently in the process of IMC

More into quant/HFTs

[lament frost]

Ayo bro did G recontacted you?

[vital meteor]

No not yet, did they to you

[lament frost]

1x30 at Zon seems so fishy idk why

[vital meteor]

Were you in G loop

[lament frost]

I got 4x60 not even 6 months ago

[lament frost]

Yeah I didn't pass HC tho

[vital meteor]

You got zon though

[lament frost]

Yeah I don't mind, I wasn't prepped enough tvg

Tbh*

But yeah I legit don't understand why Zon does 1*30

[vital meteor]

Yea I mean this is just the starting point can always do G later

[vital meteor]

Getting it is pretty rng

People can ace technical OA and not get it

Maybe but G usually down levels unless you do well onsite

It might be better to promo in G

Your in G?

I'm in team match

[coarse quiver]

Phrasing is weird . Downlevel if you do poorly on interviews

[vital meteor]

Nope

[coarse quiver]

Which is normal

[vital meteor]

From before the freeze

[coarse quiver]

What

[vital meteor]

Isnt G known to downlevel more often though

[lament frost]

When do you go to G Mr @coarse quiver

[lament frost]

Yea

[coarse quiver]

~10% of offers iirc

[coarse quiver]

22th of August

Gonna bag that return offer

[lament frost]

For 6 months ?

[coarse quiver]

At G, not jp

[coarse quiver]

4

Until mid December

[lament frost]

4 months for a return offer seems doable

[coarse quiver]

I should try to complete at least 2 projects

I believe

[lament frost]

G offers are competitive against hft?

[coarse quiver]

In Europe yes

Only cit/hrt/js and couple others exceed g Zurich

Optiver amsteram also

I'm counting taxes too

Switzerland taxes are around 15-20%

London 40-50%

Amsterdam 30%

So if you earn 230k£ at js, it will exceed by a bit G tc

G zh is 160k CHF

Optiver Amsterdam is 200k€

[lament frost]

160k base ?

[coarse quiver]

No, tc

[lament frost]

160k TC is huge how the hell is this possible

[coarse quiver]

An apartment in Zurich is 1M CHF

[lament frost]

You'll live in Zurich ?

[coarse quiver]

Probably for 2-3 years, and transfer to G us after

[lament frost]

[verbal sorrel]

Is Zurich bad or something?

[lament frost]

Very expensive

I don't even think bagging there is a good move

If you pay like 3000 for your 1 bedroom appartment it's just cringe

Bro I'll pay ~1000 for 4 bedrooms appartment

• free healthcare

[verbal sorrel]

Damn 5K

Huh

[lament frost]

• have to speak German to have friends

[coarse quiver]

It is

[coarse quiver]

Just hang out with other googlers

[verbal sorrel]

Bro i don’t think I could ever spend 5K for rent

[coarse quiver]

Rent is 1.5-2k

[lament frost]

For what 1bedroom ?

[coarse quiver]

You can't save more anywhere else in Europe

[verbal sorrel]

I’m talking about what @humble thunder said

[lament frost]

Explain bro

[coarse quiver]

Brand new studio or decent 1 bedroom yes

[coarse quiver]

Mb, I meant for Zurich

[lament frost]

Tu gagnes combien en net du coup avec 160 de TC a Zurich ?

A partir de la on peut compter

[coarse quiver]

Base is 110-120 I believe

So net is 80-90k

[lament frost]

So like 7k net ?

[coarse quiver]

7.7

[lament frost]

1.5k in rent

6.2k bagged

[coarse quiver]

• bonus and G shares

[coarse quiver]

More like 5-5.5k, cuz of food and other expenses

Like Transportation

[lament frost]

Transport won't be handled by G ?

Food too

[coarse quiver]

Depends on your lifestyle

[lament frost]

I don't want to add bonuses because it depends

[coarse quiver]

I add some margins

[coarse quiver]

Yes, me too

[lament frost]

But yeah, the difference is not that high compared to what I saw at Zon Lux with a much better appartment

It's like 1k better

[coarse quiver]

It should be 2-3k more

I would guess

[lament frost]

But it isn't if I go with your computations

[coarse quiver]

I take higher bounds for expenses

[lament frost]

Me too

Tf is F1 engineers

[dusty basin]

At least $10

[coarse quiver]

What are lux salaries and taxes for ng/sde1?

[lament frost]

All depends on the country

[coarse quiver]

Not that great compare to swe

[lament frost]

Confirm that when I'll go back home but with my salary I can bag 4k at the end of the month

[coarse quiver]

Did you include food and transportation?

[lament frost]

Yep

Food cost literally nothing at Thionville

[coarse quiver]

You will live in France?

[lament frost]

Uep

[coarse quiver]

And pay taxes in France?

Or lux

[lament frost]

Nope Lux

[coarse quiver]

So lucky

[lament frost]

I don't have a choice

[coarse quiver]

Lcol + high salary

[lament frost]

I ain't even french wdym

You're luckier

@dusty basin go to sleep b

[coarse quiver]

People working for amz will usually live in lux and pay higher rent

Amz lux net should be 4-5k

[lament frost]

@coarse quiver frérot fait comme moi vise Airbnb ou datadog en 2025

[coarse quiver]

2025?

Waz

Datadog pay is shit

70k tc ng

[lament frost]

SDE 3 offers only

[lament frost]

Huh ? I've heard much much more

[coarse quiver]

You confused nyc and paris

Probably

[lament frost]

So

Airbnb or bust

[coarse quiver]

Try HFTs

London/Amsterdam

If you are fine relocating

[coarse quiver]

I will try to do the same tbh

If I get an offer

I will save so much more

[lament frost]

I'm not

[pastel bane]

Is there anyone who's willing to do DS mock interview with me?

[hexed moth]

flip a binary tree

90 degrees

[rough ruin]

How about I flip it off 90 degrees

[sour night]

how long did c1 take to schedule final for yall after the code signal?

[buoyant herald]

node.top, node.right = node.right, node left
del(node.left)

dfs(node.top)
dfs(node.right)

How a binary tree sleeps

[hexed moth]

i remember when i was just learning

i didnt realize you could do something like the first line

so i made all these useless placeholder variable

s

god that brings me back to my intro class

[gloomy rock]

does j.p. morgan send oa automatically

[pastel bane]

there is a website and there will be random people accessing it. you need to develop an algorithm to retrieve any access information within 5 minutes.
What kind of problem is this?

[winter loom]

Sounds like a hashmap to me

[gaunt flax]

How long does it take to hear back from most companies after oa? Ive done a few this week and haven’t heard anything

[late kestrel]

wtf cap 1 just invited me to their power day with no OA

whats that about

[sharp plume]

Have you applied to a position with them before?

[random cobalt]

Yeah i did last year and i never got an OA either. Waiting for the rejection maybe lol

[late kestrel]

an internship last year but brutally failed the codesignal. hadnt done any leetcode at that point

[sharp plume]

lmaoooo same

that’s why

[sharp plume]

You’ll hear back soon they’re a lil slow

[random cobalt]

Can anybody suggest me anything? I would really appreciate

[random cobalt]

You also got an interview? At c1?

[acoustic berry]

Just ask him idk. We can't know everything about your situation

[grizzled bronze]

Weird in what way?

[random cobalt]

Lol i just needed some general advice about how to deal with a situation like this

[random cobalt]

Like he just started avoiding us, wont talk to us for anything, sat in a different spot

[grizzled bronze]

How long has it been since he's been doing this?

[random cobalt]

5-6 days

[rustic vessel]

Does c1 have a blacklist

[random cobalt]

How long after filling out the application?

[late kestrel]

i think i applied around 5 days ago

didnt get a confirmation email

[random cobalt]

Yeah me neither lol

[sharp plume]

Yup

[obsidian marsh]

is google ng even open?

[obsidian marsh]

can you turn DMs on?

[vital meteor]

Did you tell team you were leaving

Ohh I thought you were jumping to zon

[empty socket]

anyone get portal update today?

[dusty basin]

Lmao

[sudden lily]

If a company says that their questions are "unique to them" I'd probably should expect more of a design question than algo right?

[frank wedge]

Something related to what they’re working on

[sudden lily]

makes sense

[frank wedge]

Like Strava said something similar and they asked a question related to handling location changes for running

And the next one was network related

[late kestrel]

weird. that was my first codsignal ever and with no leetcode prac at all. think i got a 660 or something lol

[plush crane]

is two sigma campus hire the correct one for this year or is that old?

[inner prawn]

2Ligma doesn’t hire new grads

[split plaza]

it’s correct

[paper magnet]

Has anyone given bloomberg ?

[inner prawn]

@paper magnet @jagged ravine I would ask in #full_timers, they’ve got a couple Bloomberg people

[gilded dust]

Amazon oa was not bad!

[rain patio]

where do you see bloomberg job poast? only see 2022 london for swe

[gilded dust]

Solved both optimally 🙂 with 30 mins remaining

[vital meteor]

[white escarp]

anyone interview w Perpetua.io?

[vital meteor]

Is that the hatchaways assesment

[white escarp]

idk

i got phone w recruiter

didnt have to do any assessment

[vital meteor]

Ah I see

Goodluck

[white escarp]

😛

did u do it?

[vital meteor]

No

I never do those hatchaways assesment

[white escarp]

fk my response rate increases to 3% rn

100 apps 3 responses

[inner prawn]

@white escarp lol from 150k to 50k simp, rough times

[white escarp]

ikr

soon i'll simp burger flipping jobs

[inner prawn]

Nah man you got this, keep shooting for the moon

I’m an idiot and even my base is higher than 150k

[vital meteor]

Time to start applying to WITCh

[white escarp]

u should refer me to witch 🤣

[inner prawn]

Actually witch is the move, don’t sleep on it

I can refer you

[white escarp]

damn ur incoming bb

whatchu talking about

[inner prawn]

Yeah I went from witch -> BB

That’s why it’s the move

[white escarp]

bruh i got 1 year in random and 4 month ibm

not going anywhere

tons of rejections

[inner prawn]

Hopping is a viable strategy, ppl here just ain’t humble enough to suck it up and do it

We can’t all go to big N straight out of college

[vital meteor]

If the recruiter doesnt respond I'll give you her number lmao

I'm sure you will find something

[white escarp]

i think she only hires target tho

[keen aurora]

anyone here applied for newgrad role at amazon on june29 and got OA?

[inner prawn]

@white escarp are you using referrals? What about reaching out to recruiters

Like cold messaging

That worked for me

[white escarp]

she specifies on her linkedin that she only hires top 50

[inner prawn]

That’s how I got Google phone

[white escarp]

im spamming recruiters on linkedin

[stone fossil]

anyone apply to roblox via referral? i never got the oa lol

[white escarp]

i used jake's resume

i tried the ats it parsed pretty well

[inner prawn]

Are you selling yourself well? @white escarp you really need to highlight your technical strengths in a couple sentences

It’s becoming insanely competitive

[vital meteor]

Are you sure?

I dont think it matters

[white escarp]

Used Boolean searches to identify elite engineering talent by top 50 CS schools, target companies, groups, and tech stack.

[vital meteor]

She recruited me :KEKW:

[inner prawn]

I’ve never heard that before lol

That’s so elitist

[white escarp]

^ that what on her linkedin

[inner prawn]

Wtf

[jaunty basalt]

Shit

[inner prawn]

Damn

[vital meteor]

It's just fluff

[jaunty basalt]

#51 malding

[inner prawn]

Almost as bad as that internal twitter recruiting document that got leaked

[white escarp]

i think they start hiring again

i saw some sde2 posts on linkedin

[inner prawn]

Yeah but I was talking about the document that said don’t consider candidates that don’t go to like HYPSM + Berkeley + CMU and a couple other top schools, or worked at a faang

Even Microsoft wasn’t considered

[white escarp]

bruh cb stock sky rocket

[inner prawn]

Or you have published research

[white escarp]

hope they rehire again

[inner prawn]

You would really work for them?

Lol

After all the BS they pulled

Rescinding offers at the last minute

[white escarp]

if u look at them a transition step

👀

get cb for resume and hop

[inner prawn]

Yeah maybe if you can last a year lol

[white escarp]

i'd say 6 month is enough

[jaunty basalt]

If u can make it past onboarding then u should be aight

[white escarp]

[jaunty basalt]

To leave

[earnest nexus]

does anyone here use the awesome cv template?

[jaunty basalt]

People do use that template

[vital meteor]

try jakes

[jaunty basalt]

I don’t

[vital meteor]

@verbal sorrel

[verbal sorrel]

Okay not again

[inner prawn]

I use jakes resume template and have never been resume rejected before

[jaunty basalt]

Ppl say awesomecv has more space but to me that’s not the point

[verbal sorrel]

[rustic vessel]

Dang you really pinged him

[earnest nexus]

i thought awesome looked better- just wondering if it worse vs ATS

[white escarp]

jake's the goat tho

but he left

sadge

[earnest nexus]

omg r u the creator

[white escarp]

but i think hes still in the cs career hub discord

[earnest nexus]

is that different from this server

[white escarp]

ye

its for mature people 👀

[earnest nexus]

in what way-

oh

[vital meteor]

every -hub is for mature people

[verbal sorrel]

For legal purposes I cannot say yes or no

[inner prawn]

I remember yogi doing Jake so dirty, #neverforget

[white escarp]

mature enough to talk about fitness and mental health

👀

[late kestrel]

what site you recommend for this. used one idr the name but it was pretty meh

[verbal sorrel]

Stfu

[verbal sorrel]

Reminding me that I really want the Tonal

[white escarp]

[earnest nexus]

just put it in workdays or something and see how it does lmao thats what i did

[dire yarrow]

?avatar @earnest nexus

[earnest warren]

Avatar for moose#0234

Link as

png | jpg | webp

[inner prawn]

Can you pls dm me, my resume is trash @jagged ravine

[late kestrel]

yeah i took jakes and styled it a little differently. latex lab coming in clutch

[earnest nexus]

me 2 plz

[inner prawn]

You can take out the private stuff

[rustic vessel]

Could I get it too? Rather curious

[earnest nexus]

rather intrigued if i may say

[white escarp]

can u review my resume?

👀

i'll dm u

[earnest nexus]

do most of yall use the pdf resumes? i have heard that docx are better but not sure

[late kestrel]

whered you hear that

[rain patio]

How many of you guys have been asked for your transcript while interviewing or before the offer?

[earnest nexus]

A resume that is uploaded in a .docx (or even .doc) format will be more easily read and parsed than a .pdf file for a multitude of reasons.

When you’re presenting your resume to a recruiter or hiring manager directly, a .pdf file might be a more presentable version of a resume. However, if you’re uploading a resume to an ATS, always go with a .docx version instead. It is easier for a resume interpreter to take apart the text strings in a .doc file than having to interpret text from a .pdf file.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ITCareerQuestions/comments/nzbbvc/how_do_you_get_your_resume_to_beat_the_applicant/

[rustic vessel]

Only once by jp morgan after an oa, then they ghosted me

[late kestrel]

hmmm interesting. it makes sense, but wish the dude woulda explained why that is, not just stating it like its an obvious fact

[earnest nexus]

i think it kinda makes sense

like when u have a multi line bullet point it will mess up the line breaks, or some spaces/punctiuation will be gone, etc

im gonna try the same version on a docx and see what happens

[rain patio]

I’m trying to get a feel for how many companies actually care about the literal grades on your transcript after the pandemic

[chilly burrow]

No

This is untrue

[rustic vessel]

The answer is pretty much all don’t care

[late kestrel]

with my pdf resume this season am sitting on a 50% response rate. i doubt id see much if any improvement

[chilly burrow]

Unlike the dude who made that reddit post I have some knowledge of the Lever ats which is used by Netflix, Palantir, Figma and other top tech

[rain patio]

So then i got cucked lmao. This new manager that just recently came in like 2 weeks ago and replaced my old manager denied my full time offer because she asked for my transcript and looked at the grades from every single semester of my college years and saw a few that she didn’t like

[earnest nexus]

oh my god

ur the dude

[chilly burrow]

And pdf vs docx don't matter. It's more about the format

[earnest nexus]

i saw your post like an hour ago

about the resume parser (whcih doestn work anymore but sitll)

[chilly burrow]

Which post?

I didn't make any posts an hour ago

[earnest nexus]

i meant that i saw it an hour ago lol

[chilly burrow]

Oh ya I did make a Reddit post

[inner prawn]

Before interviewing for a couple HFT’s

Also was asked my SAT score

[rustic vessel]

How do you pass the hft resume screen

[inner prawn]

Good thing I killed that sht

[inner prawn]

Top school and good internships

[rustic vessel]

I guess I’ll pray UT and apple is enough

But so far it seems like nah

[rain patio]

Did I got cucked then so hard 💀

Dude*

[inner prawn]

Apple should definitely help lol

[inner prawn]

Rip, is your gpa at least 3.0?

Some don’t care tbh

Yeah but faang ppl applying to HFT’s are a dime a dozen lol

[rain patio]

Nope, below 3.0 since covid, but also due to medical issues literally displayed on my transcript. Not to mention I finished my intern project, deployed to production, had vouchers from the other engineers and other managers that I have the ability to do the job above and beyond expectations and literally learned the tech stack within a week of joining, but nah she cares about grades from a literal pandemic

[inner prawn]

Especially if the faang is amazon

It’s not a guarantee

[earnest nexus]

the store??

[inner prawn]

Ah I see. I mean tbh only like citadel, five rings, a couple others care. Lot of HFT’s don’t

[rustic vessel]

Is ut a target haha, I’m assuming no

[hollow flax]

rip im at a 2.91. hopefully it doesnt hurt me too much or they dont ask

[rustic vessel]

Otherwise I should have passed last year

3.9+ gpa

[inner prawn]

I think gpa is a pretty small component, you need to stand out in other ways. You’re competing with math/cs gold medalists

HRT literally has a section for awards you got lol

[rustic vessel]

Yea I guess I’ll just try my luck again this year and see what happens

[inner prawn]

Yeah they love MIT grads

Did you get finals? Sometimes they resume screen after OA/phone

Optiver

I think imc does the least resume screening out of those

Lol gl getting trader dude

Those guys are cracked

Swe is doable

[rain patio]

I’m ngl I think this lady is just an asshole. Every other manager I’ve talked to at this company has specifically said that they don’t care and don’t look at transcripts but actual coding ability. The fact that I passed the technical interview and behaviorals and the team/other managers liking me apparently wasn’t enough for her💀

[inner prawn]

Traders are the math competition guys from MIT

[hollow flax]

rip

[primal pike]

how is GS oa

[inner prawn]

Swe is just leetcode stuff tbh unless you’re going for low latency role

[inner prawn]

Pretty easy imo

[primal pike]

do they screen hard after tho

[inner prawn]

Yeah but cal is like the best CS school lol

[inner prawn]

Yeah, most ppl get ghosted

[hexed moth]

yeah i feel like grades are bullshit, i dont have grades at my school

and i interned at google this summer and they didnt give a fuck

[inner prawn]

Yeah cause they’re all about performance lol

[primal pike]

no if I ghost them first

[inner prawn]

Really, I thought most citadel traders were USAMO type guys

Like the interview process is ridiculously hard, lot of brain teasers and stats stuff

[hexed moth]

I don't even think they asked about my grades tbh, just wanted transcripts

[inner prawn]

Citadel trader TC is literally like 500k first year

It can’t be that easy to get

[rain patio]

Not to mention it’s from a pretty well-known school, UNC, all that and she still denied it. Even my mentor told me that he’s surprised I didn’t get one. This lady’s just an asshole and doesn’t give consideration to a literal global pandemic.

[hexed moth]

@rain patio but I mean that just happens sometimes and it's sucks that sometimes getting a job / internship is entirely on that

well i mean isn't it kinda like too different directions though nate

like id imagine a math researcher would be focused on theroems etc

whereas math comp dude would be doing idk what lmfao applying those prexisting things

I can't even imagine what a trader at citadel would actually do honestly

They're an HFT company right?

gotcha

[vital meteor]

like wolf of wall street

[hexed moth]

except they're buying people's houses right

[gilded dust]

Anyone heard of stytch?

[hexed moth]

lol id probably have a better chance of going somewhere with the research analyst over swe

[gilded dust]

Stytch recruiter cold emailed me. First time hearing of the company. People working there seem smart.

[rain patio]

Yeah I’m not mad, just gotta keep applying and interviewing, I kinda wanted this company because everyone here has been nice and the work is remote so that’s amazing, but this new manager that came in seems a little pretentious and judgmental. All good though, I’ll definitely get something with experience on my resume, projects, and my school, it’s just so dumb to me that some people still nitpick on grades after a literal global pandemic

[hexed moth]

i think grades are bullshit just in general lmfao

but that's why i went to a school with pass / fail

[rain patio]

That’s cool as hell

I didn’t know schools even did that

My school did that for like a little bit during the covid pandemic

[clear basin]

Anyone hear back from Citadel after providing availability for phone screen?

[hexed moth]

imma apply to citadel for the experience

[clear basin]

Citadel recruiter ghosting me

[fleet flame]

yeah

they were pretty responsive to me even when i asked to reschedule

[clear basin]

How long did it take for recruiter to schedule

[fleet flame]

recruiter even sent me an email at 9pm ET asking me to extend the offer deadline at other companies

[fleet flame]

same day

[clear basin]

Oh

I have no deadlines so maybe that's why

[paper magnet]

Could you please dm me your resume ?

[signal trail]

@jagged ravine can I see it too?

[primal pike]

same

ill show u mine

[scenic mason]

Does capital one have OA this year, my girlfriend went straight to final round

[hexed moth]

sorry we're not as good as her

[late kestrel]

yeah lot of ppl here have reported that too

[paper magnet]

I got reject from capital one saying they dont offer opt 😭

[quartz needle]

Did anyone got interview from Uber New grad- Software Engineer 1?
For reference the link for the application is this: https://www.uber.com/global/en/careers/list/116884/

[hexed moth]

what is opt

[vital gust]

sentry sf new grad closed wtf

[rustic vessel]

I had an uber recruiter reach out to me

Then ghosted me

[quartz needle]

Yes I got mine today for SWE

[winter loom]

Referral?

[quartz needle]

Nope

[paper magnet]

When did u apply ?

[quartz needle]

08/02

I got the link from this channel

[paper magnet]

I applied on 3rd haven’t heard back

[acoustic berry]

I applied 3rd haven’t heard as well

[iron lily]

yeah, mine is next week

[astral solstice]

^

[ocean hinge]

me too

[limpid tulip]

Anyone who applied for Amazon new grad in june and haven't got OA yet?

[supple egret]

Me

[bleak raven]

10 days without amazon oa

[bleak raven]

june ?? 💀💀

man

imma be waiting a long time

[gilded dust]

Citadel and amazon oa was not bad at all

Solved both optimally

[primal pike]

oa2 is what fucks u

[inner prawn]

Bruh I waited 3 months for mine

[bleak raven]

💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀

well

rip me

[hasty glade]

Anyone know anything about Pariveda? Just got dm’ed by one of their recruiters for Toronto

[crystal delta]

karat 2/3 good enough for palantir or nah

went full pepega on third for no reason

got enough to explain approach and almost run thru test cases

but there were probably some bugs

he liked approach tho so idk

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[hasty birch]

Yes

[crystal delta]

do they take into account that you finished out approach for #3

or do they just go by test cases

[winter loom]

Anyone hear back about anything Amazon after Tuesday?

[split plaza]

was there an OA

[quartz needle]

No

[gusty sand]

Is it better to apply through recruiter than through CareerSite for NewGrad roles to expedite the process? Any suggestions?

[sour night]

How’s the credit Sussie OA for the analyst program it doesn’t seem like it’s coding based

[primal pike]

does apple send oas

i never see any talk about apple or meta process

[rustic vessel]

From my experience no

And apple is heavily team dependent

[gilded dust]

Lol I opened imc oa and was like nope

And just closed it

😮‍💨

[gray niche]

imc < mental health

[primal pike]

zame

also GoldmanS

already know they will screen me with my 2.0 gpa

[unborn grove]

How tough is it

[rocky ibex]

What’s Kodiak TC

[gilded dust]

I did amazon, citadel right before imc oa

By the time I got to imc I was so tired so I was like fk it 🤭

Don’t like Chicago anyways

[wicked pendant]

no every team at apple has a diff interview process but none use oas to my knowledge

[gilded dust]

It’s not too tough but it’s hella long

Anyone do stytch phone?

[vital gust]

it's 2 questions 2 hours right?

[dusty halo]

How many days do we get before we have to take the Goldman Sachs OA?

[primal pike]

at least 1

[quartz needle]

Haven’t check will let you know once I do

[old vector]

do you guys use spaced repetition in your leetcode studying?

also is anyone studying system design?

damn roles are coming out quickly wtf, i only have 20 lc in and no sys design yet

[chilly burrow]

I am

Just started

[old vector]

what course are you using

[hasty birch]

Check out system design primer on GitHub

Should be enough

https://github.com/donnemartin/system-design-primer

[old vector]

im gonna do grokking system design

[chilly burrow]

I'm using leetcode + system design promer

[calm mist]

are their internships only for the summer?

[keen zinc]

Also anyone who moved forward from GS

True

[teal jackal]

Welp

I'm here now guys

Just failed my Amazon final one on one

[buoyant herald]

Bruh why do you think that

Had mine today too lol

[teal jackal]

No return offer

I mean I want to be introspective and focus on how I can make the most of my circumstances and work environment, but my internship was a bit of a hot mess

Didn't get my project until end of week 4, and manager was out for like 7 weeks

[dire yarrow]

Ouch

[teal jackal]

Nonetheless I could have done better with realizing when to take ownership, and what I need to do to be a full owner of my project

It's okay, I'll bring my better work mentality in the future to a better company

The leetcode hustle is ON

[buoyant herald]

Bozos cringe anyway

[teal jackal]

Jeff bozo fr

[buoyant herald]

Build yourself up not some random billionare

Let's get our money up frfr

Oh no it was a final interview not intern presentation

[teal jackal]

Gl edgy

[surreal estuary]

how was it for you?

[buoyant herald]

Pretty good. 2x60. One OOP design type question one leetcode question. Lp was pretty straightforward

[teal jackal]

Are u applying for new grad

[buoyant herald]

Yissirr

[teal jackal]

I heard Amazon revised their interview to get rid of 1x30

[raw current]

any good source for OOP practice? And is the LC question hard/med/easy?

[buoyant herald]

I honestly don't know any good resources for the OO design one. Was an lc medium

[tardy jetty]

same

[raw current]

it still happens this cycle tho

[buoyant herald]

A fella really recently got an offer here after a 1x30

[teal jackal]

Bro, let's manifest. Let's manifest to become better software developers who work at a better company than where they started

[tardy jetty]

😓

[buoyant herald]

Honestly amazon the worst faang. Chin up big g's

[teal jackal]

Nah bro we have to be positive

[vital meteor]

[buoyant herald]

Daily lc practice and google in the bag

A medium a day will keep the rejections away

[teal jackal]

We aint going anywhere if we're not positive

Positivity is motivating

[raw current]

But but GG always asks hard Q ...

[buoyant herald]

I heard google is medium-hard

[vital meteor]

manifest the lambo

[buoyant herald]

Joma tech the joma tech

[teal jackal]

my study plan is now

grokking + blind 75
Stretch goal: EPI in C++

[vital meteor]

i also recommend common graph algos

MST prims kruskals tarjans

[teal jackal]

ah, just get familiar with graph problem

beyond bfs/dfs

[vital meteor]

yes, amazon and G both asked me graphs

[primal pike]

my problem is undrrstanding their damn problems

[teal jackal]

i already sent out an app for microsoft

[low scroll]

how long did it take to get amazon OA?

[grizzled bronze]

It's RNG, some can receive it a week after applying and some can receive it months later

[feral fossil]

Hi I will be graduating in May 2023, from when I can start applying for full time?

[chilly burrow]

Chk pinned

[inner prawn]

Hello Takshshila, you can go ahead and start applying as soon as possible. I wish you the best of luck!

[feral fossil]

Thanks you guys, is there any special things you are doing for preparation and application.

[inner prawn]

Yes, I would definitely recommend Leetcode first and foremost as a resource. Focus on Data Structures and Algorithms preparation + behavioral questions regarding your resume and past experiences.

Here is a great list to get started with: https://leetcode.com/discuss/general-discussion/460599/blind-75-leetcode-questions

[feral fossil]

Thank you

[inner prawn]

No problem!

[pastel bane]

anyone has an idea how to write a letter for job application?

[dire yarrow]

yea slumm knows, @inner prawn help him out

[inner prawn]

Sure thing! I really love this website -> https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/cover-letter-samples/software-engineer when it comes to framing a good cover letter. It really comes down to being able to persuasively write to the company clearly illustrating in a succinct manner exactly why they should choose you specifically for the job role over other candidates, and of course make sure to highlight your various technical skills and strengths.

If you have any past group or individual projects, you should definitely highlight those and link the github links when applicable

Finally, make sure to reuse keywords from the job posting itself. For example, if they are looking for candidates with "intermediate programming skills in Java", make sure to show (not just tell) how you have used Java in the past to solve a technical problem

[pastel bane]

thank you very much! I will read it carefully.

[inner prawn]

No problem! Let me know if you ever need more help 🙂

[young peak]

One thing I'll add is you don't need to send a cover letter to most positions, especially if its gonna be generic/non-tailored

[inner prawn]

Hey, Yogi! If you have any questions regarding job applications or interviewing feel free to dm me!

[lament frost]

If a position ask for cover letter I just don't apply now. I was that lazy

[dusty basin]

If u want someone to review ur trash resume bro, send it over

[chilly burrow]

https://leetcode-company-tagged.vercel.app/
This site has every leetcode tagged q!

[sonic coral]

Where did this energy come from lmao

[young peak]

Bro got sent to HR and came back like this

[sonic coral]

This some we happy few shit

[median halo]

Has anybody here done the p&g interview?

[sonic coral]

@inner prawn blink twice if you’re under duress

[river harbor]

Anyone who got referred for Uber new grad, did you submit the application from your end as well? Or just the referral

[rain patio]

was urs on chime or on phone? i see online some people have it on phone while mine is chime

[acoustic berry]

Mine was chime

[rain patio]

for people who got amazon 2x60, is the OOP more of a design problem with a discussion or does it have definite right and wrong solutions like LC?

[hazy gull]

design/discussion

many different approaches

[rain patio]

thanks

are you using a code editor where you will run and test your code or is it like a google doc?

[hazy gull]

how long after ur interview did ur portal change @rain patio

I took yesterday, so abt thurs for me?

ok

[inner prawn]

Tony will be hosting a free Amazon prep session at 8 PM EST today, don’t miss it folks

[slate bobcat]

Tony will be hosting a free Amazon prep session at 8 PM EST today, don’t miss it folks

[jaunty snow]

anyone done c1 final interview yet?

[fleet kiln]

!process vatic oa

[cerulean basin]

You can only use this command in 2022_winter_intern_process, 2022_summer_intern_process, 2022_grad_process, 2022_fall_intern_process, 2023_summer_intern_process, 2023_winter_intern_process, 2023_grad_process

[fleet kiln]

oops wrong channel

wait is vatic not one of the companies on the list lol

[dry salmon]

did anyone do akuna's ml/data eng hackerrank 🤕

[hazy gull]

@dry salmon it was hard

[lusty field]

Bruh I got citadel OA and didn’t do it now I got rejected

If I do it will they reconsider

[elder locust]

how much time did they give you

[elder locust]

yes, worked for me at other places

[tawdry belfry]

you have to do it before they send it

[fleet kiln]

also some people get to skip the oa lol

[shrewd ivy]

If u got cracked enough resume they probably will reconsider

[buoyant herald]

Any thoughts on if/when stripe comes out?

[primal pike]

eoy

[inner prawn]

How do you do my fellow 2023 graduates?

[primal pike]

[grizzled bronze]

betterhelp.com

not sponsored

[dire carbon]

Hello, guys I'm 2023 new grad majoring in computer science and looking for a fall/winter internship. If anyone available, can you guys please give me a advice/comment on my resume please?

[shy yarrow]

Wrong chat there is #resume

[dire carbon]

thanks

[inner prawn]

Yep been there done that. Push through man, light at the end of the tunnel

[chilly burrow]

Late August

[inner prawn]

Still don’t really know how to prep for Stripe

It seems like more real world programming and debugging rather than LC

[chilly burrow]

Just b good at programming lol

[white escarp]

Holy fuck 5 round interview for new grad

Thats sadge

🤣

we got this

lets gooooo

2023 grad is not as bad as i thought

i thought none of the tech companies will hire for new grad 2023 due to the recession

[primal pike]

ive a senior friend at stripe who will referr me

better start pprep now

[white escarp]

tell him to refer me too 😭

[primal pike]

sure

[white escarp]

thats dope

👀

[calm shale]

Should I ask for referrals instead of applying online?

bc u can't apply and then ask for referrals can you?

[white escarp]

i think its safe to ask for referrals first then apply

like ibm for e.g: you will apply through a referral link

[primal pike]

i think victoria blacklisted me fr

i applied to 2 more roles lets see

[cobalt siren]

Does anyone have the bloomberg application link? Cant seem to find it for newgrad

[white escarp]

she was on vacation

LOL

[inner prawn]

Yeah you should ask for referrals before applying just in case

[calm shale]

rip already applied to msft

[chilly burrow]

a lot of startups hav dis many rounds

im interviewin at a company that has 7 rounds 😭

[marble bronze]

Fuck me that's rough

[white escarp]

Bruh most of companies that im in the interview loop has 5 -6rounds

[chilly burrow]

ya its tuff fr

[fleet kiln]

citadel goes up to oa -> interview 1 -> 6 round onsite

for interns sometimes lol

[chilly burrow]

Y r newgrad interviews so tuff 😭

Y can't it jus be oa -> offer

[fleet kiln]

dude I know right lol

if im ever in a position to hire im going to make the process just oa -> offer

it might be a bit hard of an oa but id give prep materials too

a well documented system + a new language shouldnt be to hard to learn so idk why so many interviews are needed for any entry level place

[primal pike]

i would do like 20 rounds

make cs great again

[white escarp]

i understand that companies want to have different views of a candidate from various people but 6 rounds is just tooo much LOL

[chilly burrow]

I'd prob do oa -> final

[cobalt siren]

new grad should just be offer

[fleet kiln]

what would you even ask in them

[fleet kiln]

well thats what return offers are

[cobalt siren]

like just get an offer from a place you didn't even apply

fuck it get an offer for like finance something you didn't even study

[primal pike]

hard dp problem each

[fleet kiln]

what do you get out of that

dp isnt even that hard so people would finish it fast

[chilly burrow]

Can u even do hard dp problems?

[vital meteor]

How would you decide on 1000 candidates who all ace the OA

[fleet kiln]

if its a small company then first come first serve?

[vital meteor]

Yea idk about that one

[fleet kiln]

why not?

[shy yarrow]

xd

[inner prawn]

Lol FIFO hiring process

[dusty basin]

lol

[white escarp]

if the candidate from loo then auto hire

[vital meteor]

Because if it's just OA to offer in a first come first serve setting you would have to set the OA to be extremely difficult to filter out enough candidates

[fleet kiln]

well its a resume screen first too i meant

[vital meteor]

But maybe these companies missed something you didnt

[inner prawn]

Nah I don’t like easy interview processes. I don’t wanna work with noobs

[white escarp]

just givethem a take home project of building the next large scale system 👀

[fleet kiln]

and I also said well documented system/codebase which most companies don't care enough about to have

[dusty basin]

Ppl still easily cheat

[vital meteor]

Yea true, I dont think you can remove an onsite

[fleet kiln]

they will get fired if they can't perform on the job

[white escarp]

but the hiring process will cost lots of money

[vital meteor]

I find communism more realistic than this idea

[white escarp]

regardless if the candidate get fired or not

[dusty basin]

lol why waste resources to hire someone who you fire

[fleet kiln]

how is that true if its just oa -> offer

[dusty basin]

Exactly

[dusty basin]

They pay for service and recruiters who go through resume. Plus onboarding and relocation and shit

[vital meteor]

Theres opportunity cost though since finding people will take more time if theres so many shitters

[dusty basin]

It’s not just OA -> offer

[fleet kiln]

imo recruiters hiring managers engineers are better fit to look at resumes than recruiters

[fleet kiln]

and also just making onboarding remote is an optoin

[dusty basin]

Yeah bc they have the time to look at 1000s of ng

[white escarp]

instead of arguing about the hiring process lets talk about how we can do 2sum in O(1) times

[fleet kiln]

yeah it shouldnt be to hard to filter

spend about 5-7 seconds per resume

[dusty basin]

Making videos and shit costs resources as well as online training

[chilly burrow]

I'd auto reject

[dusty basin]

That’s so dumb

[chilly burrow]

And only hire from no names

[fleet kiln]

well you just have to do it once

[white escarp]

how dare u discriminate loooooo

[dusty basin]

I would too ngl

Give the little guy a shot

[chilly burrow]

Dem loo kids r spreadin fr

[fleet kiln]

like if you own a system/codebase documenting it and facilitating onboarding for it should be done no matter what so that could just be reused here

[white escarp]

i'm not looo

[chilly burrow]

I kno dat Snap is actually tryna hire less loo kids

Cuz there r 2 many there lmao

[white escarp]

loo should play the cali or bust game

leave me some jobs in canada

[chilly burrow]

They alrdy do tho

[white escarp]

[fleet kiln]

why is that dumb?

[white escarp]

they do but they still take over most of the jobs in big n and unicorn or us based companies in canada

[dusty basin]

Maintaining such a large code base with so many away teams working on it is an exercise in futility at the scale these huge companies have

For a startup, sure

But also in startups, things pivot so quickly that sometimes it’s difficult to maintain proper docs

[fleet kiln]

why does this scale affect it?

[dusty basin]

Because going through 1000s of resumes is not feasible for a hm and their time could definitely be better utilized in other areas such as managing their team. There’s a reason there’s entire teams of recruiters and automated systems dedicated to doing this. They don’t just get 10 applications with clear distinctions between each candidate

[fleet kiln]

thats also an argument for why recruiters are ineffecient because a hiring manager could just set aside a couple of hours aside for these thousands of resumes

[dusty basin]

I just explained. The code base is extremely huge and there’s dozens of teams working on a single codebase. Having consistent, well-maintained docs is extremely difficult

[fleet kiln]

youre just saying its difficult without saying why

[dusty basin]

Yea I wouldn’t pay hm $120/hr to sift thru thousands of resumes when they can use that time to manage their team and projects

[fleet kiln]

its only a couple hours per week or month

assuming they get 1000's of resumes per week

[vital meteor]

My manager is always in meetings lmao

[white escarp]

^

[vital meteor]

How would he have the time for that

[fleet kiln]

whats he doing in these meetings

[white escarp]

just hire an intern to do that

🤣

[sonic coral]

Google has 3 million applicants a year

[fleet kiln]

not all of those are for swe

[sonic coral]

Even if you have superhuman recruiters

[dusty basin]

Bro. Are u reading my message? The scale doesn’t make it feasible. If u have dozens of teams working on a codebase with 100s of modules, there’s a ton of changes made by a ton of different teams that don’t even know what the other one does and those changes affect other parts of the code. Different unrelated teams documenting changes on the same large codebase is what leads to mistranslations, inconsistencies in docs, etc

[fleet kiln]

google also ghosts like half of them

[sonic coral]

Who review a resume in 5 sec

That still requires 173 days worth of reviewing

Assuming you review 24/7

So however you want to batch that up that’s still absolutely ridiculous

Also consider that reviewing resumes isn’t all recruiters do

[dusty basin]

Reaching out to candidates, scheduling, etc

But even OA -> offer and then fire if they’re not good enough, what u suggested is not feasible

[fleet kiln]

Different unrelated teams documenting changes on the same large codebase is what leads to mistranslations, inconsistencies in docs, etc

wait so why exactly do these in consistensies happen?

[sonic coral]

Headcount meetings, discussing candidates with teams, negotiating with offered candidates

Also just straight up evaluating candidates after a phone interview takes time

[fleet kiln]

the last one could probably require a recruiter but the other 2 doesnt necessarily need one

[sonic coral]

You’re not always gonna know if you wanna move on to the next stage immediately

[fleet kiln]

how did you get this number?

[sonic coral]

3 million applications * 5 seconds / 60 seconds in a minute / 60 minutes in an hour / 24 hours in a day

173.6111111 repeating days to be exact

[fleet kiln]

there isnt 3 million applicants for a single swe position

[sonic coral]

But I was conservative with the rounding

Bro

I’m telling you why they can’t review every resume

Recruiters for tech don’t just handle swes

[fleet kiln]

i was talking in the context of swe

[sonic coral]

Ok even if they have like 500k applicants for tech only ignoring all non tech roles

[fleet kiln]

google has alot of roles based on org too

so you would have to filter that out automatically

then also filter by level

and then applications could involve team matching preferences too

[sonic coral]

Bro what are you even arguing at this point

[fleet kiln]

that big tech recruiting / interview processes are ineffecient for swe

[dusty basin]

Im p sure they’ve invested quite a lot of time and money and resources in making the process as efficient for themselves as possible. No company wants to lose money just to get new ppl

Their processes work for them

If u have a better way, sell it to them. Im sure they’d pay a lot for u to save them time and money

[sonic coral]

Ok so let’s start from square one since admittedly I entered the convo without context and just saw you saying they should review every resume lol

So what is your proposal to improve big tech recruiting

[fleet kiln]

not have recruiters

and turn the process into oa -> offer

maybe a single phone screen after would help

[sonic coral]

So you like amazons team of recruiters system where it’s highly impersonal

[fleet kiln]

but i dont think its alwasy necesary

[sonic coral]

Ok what in the fuck

[surreal estuary]

was lurking

but that

is a terrible idea

[fleet kiln]

amazon gives like everyone who applies an oa for their internship

so yes

[sonic coral]

OAs are an absolutely HORRIBLE way to gauge swe skill level

[dusty basin]

They still have interview lol

[fleet kiln]

what is swe skill level

[dense blaze]

[fleet kiln]

yes ik but some people get asked 2sum while some get asked some random hard that involved knowing the z string algorithm so again its still kinda dumb

[dusty basin]

That doesn’t mean it’s unnecessary lol

[surreal estuary]

yeah? and some people could get 2sum for the OA while some other person gets a z string algo for the OA

[sonic coral]

Depending on your level, your ability to design complex systems and solve ambiguous problems tbh

[fleet kiln]

for interviews too i meant

or not those exact thing but not very high bar

[sonic coral]

Just regurgitating leetcode shows nothing

[fleet kiln]

so system design?

[dusty basin]

Plus it’s a lot of soft skills too

[surreal estuary]

so how does having OA -> offer solve that issue

explain

[coarse quiver]

Horrible?

[dusty basin]

There’s a reason interviews focus on communication and stuff

[dusty basin]

Yes

[tawny bloom]

there would be so much cheating involved if it was only OA

terrible idea

[dusty basin]

OAs can be cheated on

[dense blaze]

[fleet kiln]

its dependent on having a well documented system / codebases so that ramp up doesnt require you to be some 10x engineer

[sonic coral]

That and also how well you can communicate in others to work in a team

[dusty basin]

And the code u write on OA doesn’t have to be clean. Just have to pass test cases a lot of the time

[coarse quiver]

What would be a better option?

[sonic coral]

Part of being a swe is dealing with ambiguity

[surreal estuary]

so you're saying they should also change what the OA is being tested on

[dusty basin]

Nothing. I’m just pointing out how ridiculous the idea of not having an interview is

[fleet kiln]

the type of problem and its complexity sometimes requires clean code to be done

[sonic coral]

Admittedly bad documentation sucks absolute ass

But if you can’t work around that you’re an lc monkey sorry

[dusty basin]

lol. U should always be writing clean code no matter what the problem’s complexity is

[fleet kiln]

yeah for solving problems not trying to understand something thats already built

[coarse quiver]

That's not always true. There are usually some engineers reviewing the code

[sonic coral]

The fact of the matter is most companies have horrible code

[fleet kiln]

yeah but for filtering out through an oa increasing the difficulty helps with that

[dusty basin]

I said a lot of the time

[sonic coral]

And they need to people to either maintain that code or help slowly move it to better code

[dusty basin]

Not always

[sonic coral]

Lc helps with neither of those

[fleet kiln]

lc mediums and hards to

[sonic coral]

I’m referring to algorithm problems in general

[dusty basin]

Again, can easily be cheated on

[fleet kiln]

yes i know im reffering to a problem like : https://leetcode.com/problems/minimum-moves-to-move-a-box-to-their-target-location/

[white escarp]

I didn't get their oa

[sonic coral]

No lc problem comes anywhere near the skills required to for example migrate a massive monolithic api to micro services

[coarse quiver]

I meant the majority of the time, there is a reviewer for OAs

[fleet kiln]

when did you apply

[dusty basin]

shit company anyways bro

[white escarp]

last 2 years for internships

[fleet kiln]

cheat as in study things before hand or have someone in the room? it could be setup like codesignal does

[white escarp]

so 2020 and 2021

[dusty basin]

Most companies I did OA for, I wrote trash code and still made it through

But anyways

[sonic coral]

See above #2023_grads message

[white escarp]

i always applied within a week when the post came out

[dusty basin]

That’s not the topic of discussion bog lol

[fleet kiln]

why was it in a monolithic api tho

[sonic coral]

That was a theoretical example

Of something that can certainly happen in real world

[fleet kiln]

i know im trying to understand what could actually go wrong so do you have a real world example

[coarse quiver]

Btw, codesignal scores are based on code quality

[sonic coral]

The world doesn’t exist in a vacuum where you solve algo problems and you make money

[dusty basin]

I’ve seen ppl easily cheat on code signal. Having notes on a secondary screen, friend next to them searching up answer, etc

[fleet kiln]

theyre based on speed

[dusty basin]

Tru

[sonic coral]

You make money because you solve difficult shit

[dusty basin]

No they also base it on how much u edit ur code

[fleet kiln]

tbh if someone cheats to that extent i could see them getting help on the job too so it could work itself out

[coarse quiver]

And clean code, and a lot of variables

[sonic coral]

What exactly do you mean by what could go wrong

[fleet kiln]

like why its a bad idea

[dusty basin]

That’s a dumb argument

[sonic coral]

I’m simply referring to real life problems swes face

Just ask @livid yew

[dusty basin]

Ur expected to be an individual contributor after a few months

[fleet kiln]

thats doable if things are well documented

[dusty basin]

If a person couldn’t learn enough shit to do an OA on their own after 4 yrs

They won’t do shit in 6 months

[dusty basin]

Yea like rob said, part of being a SWE is dealing with ambiguity

I’d love better documentation too

[fleet kiln]

then make it

its usually not hard, most of the time big tech doesnt have documentation simply because no one wants to

[buoyant herald]

Fact, if anyone reading cheated on the OA you can go fuck yourself

[dusty basin]

Yea let me just rehaul the millions of docs Amazon has

[sonic coral]

This is a perfect example of why I hate academia (and leetcode because like it’s similar to academia in many regards)

[white escarp]

in an ideal world you will have a perfect kind of documentation system but this world is not perfect LOL

[dusty basin]

Fr

[sonic coral]

New grads expect everything to be perfect in the real world

Plot twist it isn’t

[dusty basin]

^

[sonic coral]

The entire world in almost every respect is held together by effectively duct tape and rubber bands

[fleet kiln]

if youre on a team with bad docs you could help change the team's docs its not that hard

[surreal estuary]

i guess you haven't read through files that has 1k+ lines

[sonic coral]

I seriously think you are GRAVELY underestimating the scale of these systems

[surreal estuary]

and not only one file

multiple files

that you've never seen before

[fleet kiln]

i read through an auto generated file that was 8k lines long

[dusty basin]

Uhh yeah my app has 150 external dependencies depending on away teams

[tawny bloom]

how do you write docs for something you have no context on

[sonic coral]

This isn’t some react client + server you made in software engineering I

[surreal estuary]

you telling me you can quickly understand 8k lines of code and create docs for it?

[dusty basin]

And even 8k is grossly understating @fleet kiln

[fleet kiln]

if it was my own codebase then yes

[sonic coral]

These are several year old (even decades sometimes) systems that have been written by hundreds if not thousands of engineers over time

[surreal estuary]

ok

[dusty basin]

It’s not ur own codebase

[surreal estuary]

point is

you're joining a company

[dusty basin]

That’s the point lmao

[surreal estuary]

it's not your code

you have 0 idea wtf it does

[white escarp]

define "quickly" 🤣

[tawny bloom]

straw manning

[fleet kiln]

those decades old systems arnt part of the usual big tech codedbases that im talking about

[sonic coral]

Important skill to learn as software engineer, you’re not coding by yourself and have to work around that

[dusty basin]

Uhhhh what

[sonic coral]

how old do you think faang is

[dusty basin]

Have u ever worked at big tech?

[tawny bloom]

clearly not

[fleet kiln]

yeah so if the company has high standards then it shouldnt be a problem

do you have an example

[fleet kiln]

yes interned at rivian/coinbase/facebook

[dusty basin]

Yea doesn’t seem like it

Maybe they had u add a radio button or sth

[fleet kiln]

iv always been in infra or some fullstack related team

i dont do front end

so cant speak to that

as in speicfically documenting stuff for js

[surreal estuary]

u prob have good intentions, im just trying to point out that it's extremely difficult for someone to "just make docs" for thousands of lines of code of something that they didn't personally make

[fleet kiln]

but i have had the same problem of depending on teams with poor documentation and their communication was bad which results in entire orgs being slowed down and it could all beb solved from proper documentation

[fleet kiln]

yes i know that

[chilly burrow]

I feel like this is a pointless argument 😕

[fleet kiln]

documentation doesnt keep up - because?

[chilly burrow]

Tbf their experience may be on smaller/newer teams

[dusty basin]

sigh

[fleet kiln]

iv been on a team thats existed since messenger was made

[sonic coral]

Ok imma give you a really simple example, you ever go on a Wikipedia or any other wiki rabbithole where you keep clicking links and have spent hours

[sinful tendon]

this entire thing is the type of conversation that makes people not want to be in this server

[eager dirge]

dick measuring contest in cscareers? never

[fleet kiln]

yes why?

[white escarp]

i mean if ur in a production team and tickets keep coming! if you have to choose between spending times on documenting stuff and fixing prod code, which one would u choose? 👀

[dusty basin]

I would leave after this

[fleet kiln]

but why? are you saying its just a thing no one does?

[dusty basin]

But I don’t want server to die

Bc I’m gone

[eager dirge]

imagine not making a satellite server with normal people