canada

[limber dirge]

i take courses that take like 1-2 hours a week

[echo latch]

I think it helped that banana had like 300 interns in vancouver

[azure vortex]

prob still at least 200 this year

i would think

[echo latch]

hmm yeah prolly

should def still be fun

if youre at banana vancouver this summer and dont go do the stawamus chief hike as your first hike this current intern class is inferior

[untold nebula]

what are some other cool things to do as a zon intern

[oak bone]

we going on a yacht party

[ripe crescent]

Did you end up hearing back? Just want to make sure my assumption was ok lol

My 48hrs starts sometime tomorrow morning

[echo latch]

Depends on your friend group. Initially we were out clubbing and partying all the time but then as things settled down and we had a good group going we’d just chill at each other’s place after work

Go karting, we went to a music festival

[echo latch]

wtf we did that

[lucid berry]

dont tell me what to not do

breaks both shoulders

[lucid berry]

what music festival?

[graceful heart]

Do you receive your confirmation today?

[brave fable]

yeah

[graceful heart]

So the case is given?

[brave fable]

yup, presentation is just 10 mins + 20 min question period based on it

[graceful heart]

okay. 💪

[fickle juniper]

u should do the grouse grind

really chill and fun hike

[lucid berry]

I'll take a note

[sleek echo]

hey guys is anyone here familiar with grad school application process in canada?

[fickle juniper]

Um btw I was joking if that didn't come thru it is not a fun hike 💀

Sorry only bc folks will get the sarcasm

[gloomy plover]

for the longest time i didn't know grouse grind wasn't a normal hike cus that was the first real hike i did growing up

until i went on a trail and realized not all hikes are stairmaster 3000

[echo latch]

LOL

Hey that’s how you find out if you’re built like the wagon man

[echo latch]

fvded

[lucid berry]

[echo latch]

canada 👍

[drifting shore]

canada 👎

[lucid berry]

canada 👍

[tawny zephyr]

canada 😐

[oak bone]

canada ❤️

[worldly ridge]

canada 🥜

[lunar sandal]

anyone heard back from Ontario Teachers Pension Plan?

gg

[analog current]

any1 had snowflake OA?

for Toronto

[worn moss]

its 1 lc easy 1 lc med 1 lc hard

[analog current]

found them harder. all 3 seemed LC med-hard

[analog current]

and how did it go?

managed to solve 2 full and for the third one got 12/15

[worn moss]

i got 2/3

[worn moss]

that’s impressive af

[analog current]

how much on the third one?

[analog current]

aww, thank you. not sure if it’s enough for them tho

[worn moss]

iirc i got 0 i applied for snowflake toronto insanely early cause i got an early link from the recruiter at a uoft event and got rejected already

[analog current]

oh … I am also from Europe so my chances are lower I guess

I was curios if there are cases where they got people who didn’t have perfect hacker-rank score. so if someone else reads this and knows about this … a reply would be appreciated

[tawny raptor]

Got hirevue but thats it so far

[lunar sandal]

yeah same

[echo latch]

how get offer

[upper linden]

Teach me the ways sensei

[ripe crescent]

What position is this?

[tawny raptor]

I forget what they call it but its the swe one

[ripe crescent]

The SWE Martech Developer one?

[tawny raptor]

Martech?

[echo latch]

https://tenor.com/view/i-got-nothing-left-to-teach-you-kristen-bell-eleanor-shellstrop-the-good-place-nothing-to-taught-gif-16199825

[ripe crescent]

nvm I guess the position isn’t still up!

[upper linden]

https://tenor.com/view/crying-meme-black-guy-cries-sad-man-thank-god-for-my-reefer-hood-news-gif-24902056

[novel dome]

Anyone done KPMG second round interview for internship?

[rose island]

Anyone done KPMG second round interview

[stone moth]

https://forums.immigration.com/threads/feeling-stressed-tn-1-denied-applying-as-engineer-with-b-sc-now.344462/

[fickle juniper]

So Software Eng = Software Dev and a CS degree is directly applicable

[barren sinew]

For this reason I prefer the premium processing procedure where the lawyer develops the entire petition and sends it off to the Department of Homeland Security for review. I have received a TN through premium processing and right at the border and prem processing was much less stressful

[earnest mortar]

wait people are hiring lawyers now 👀

[real storm]

whats the process and cost for this?

[barren sinew]

The company does for you. Idk if startups do too but I assume any company bothering to hire a TN would

[barren sinew]

I believe the company pays about $2k for premium. It takes a bit longer but the documents the lawyer asks from you is the same

[earnest mortar]

wait so if you're not an engineer the company has to sponsor you for the TN visa?

[real storm]

ah okay gotcha

[barren sinew]

The company kind of needs to sponsor since they have to send an invitation letter. Idk if you'd consider that a sponsorship. But it has nothing to do with being an engineer or not. Everyone either gets a TN at the border or a lawyer builds a whole package which they send to the DHS for premium processing.

[earnest mortar]

so if you get a TN at the border, would that cost the company money?

[echo latch]

Most people are able to get a TN at the border

You usually have something from the company that you can show at the border and that’s fine for most cases

Sometimes someone at the border will raise an eyebrow at a CS degree

But again the company should’ve told you what to do if that happens

[barren sinew]

Not sure. I'm no lawyer but I think an offer letter outlining the role, your duration, etc as well as an evaluation of your degree being legitimate is the bare minimum the company does for you. Then you apply at the border for like $50

[echo latch]

Some companies have a debrief session too before you go

[real storm]

damn ngl i'd rather just pay myself and let a lawyer do it if theres this much hassle

specially with an offer on the line

[earnest mortar]

why would a CS degree make a difference? curious although im majoring in computer engineering

[echo latch]

Your degree doesn’t say engineer on it anywhere

And you’re going for a software engineer role

It’s dumb but that’s how it works

[earnest mortar]

loll interesting

[echo latch]

They assume “science” means some kind of research

[barren sinew]

To have a TN-1, you need to fit one of the roles eligible for TN-1. Programmer isn't one of them. Engineer is.

From what I understand "code monkeys" are not allowed. You need to be designing

[tawny zephyr]

why is programmer not one of them

[echo latch]

no it’s harder for cs people at the border

[tawny zephyr]

out of curiosity

[echo latch]

Than ce

[tawny zephyr]

or is it just the way it is

[echo latch]

Harder for cs people than eng*

yes

ask the government bro I don’t make the rules

It’s just how it is

[tawny zephyr]

damn

[earnest mortar]

damn

[tawny zephyr]

where do other 30% come from

[barren sinew]

It just doesn't fit the category. Like Imagine Wagons said, you can try to convince the CBP guard that your education is applicable

[tawny zephyr]

math?

[earnest mortar]

engineering?

[echo latch]

Also almost all CE grads also do SWE

[tawny zephyr]

I see

[barren sinew]

Here is the full list of professions: https://www.immi-usa.com/tn-visa/

[earnest mortar]

anyone know quant swe major percentages

[tawny zephyr]

@echo latch didnt u say u got an offer from ce and se I think it was

or something else

do u regret taking ce over whatever u didnt take

[echo latch]

no I got offer for ce (or general if ce wasn’t available) for uoft, ubc and loo

Never applied to cs or se

[tawny zephyr]

oh neat

[earnest mortar]

hs average?

[tawny zephyr]

hes intl

[earnest mortar]

ah true

[barren sinew]

Sheesh. Loo CE as an intl

[earnest mortar]

what made your apps stand out for uni outta curiosity wagons?

[echo latch]

Prolly the equivalent of 99% or something?

[earnest mortar]

damn

did you win olympiads or smth

[tawny zephyr]

loo hard to get

[echo latch]

no just other ec’s

[tawny zephyr]

where u from

[echo latch]

My essays were really good I’d say esp for ubc

[earnest mortar]

what makes a good essay, need tips for grad appies

[tawny zephyr]

from what I have heard (I am applying too but not for grad)

u have to sound like an all rounder

not too much of a nerd or too much of 1 thing

it can have that theme but it needs to be well rounded

[echo latch]

I honestly didn’t think about it at all

Just wrote what came to mind about the prompt

And got a friend to look over it

[tawny zephyr]

for loo was it essay or a paragraph of response

there was a few written prompts

[echo latch]

Idr but loo didn’t have like a major essay

Just different prompts

[tawny zephyr]

I see

u got plans for grad school or no

[echo latch]

I also didn’t do the video interview

Which I later realize I should’ve done

[echo latch]

Zero

Maybe Stanford mba at some point

[barren sinew]

You know a lot about the TN visa for an intl student 🙂

[tawny zephyr]

u got it anyway 🤷‍♂️

[tawny zephyr]

sounds fun

cold emailing is very painful ngl

[earnest mortar]

why stanford

[echo latch]

Yes I’m surprised at how little people no about visas here esp when they’re applying for US roles

Which is why I made this #2023_summer message

Also it’s prolly bc I’m intl that I know about visas kek

The plan was to stay in Canada but return offers looking a bit shaky

So might have to get back on the grind for new grad

[tawny zephyr]

tbh if someones an intl student in canada and gets a ng offer then no point in going to US H1-B

unless u wanna wait 15 years at least for greencard

[echo latch]

Name

[barren sinew]

Depends where they're born

[earnest mortar]

true, ur waiting for a g return?

[tawny zephyr]

most asian countries have a long wait time

[echo latch]

If you’ve got a Stanford mba realistically you can make a few calls and raise however much money you want for some random web3 startup whenever

[barren sinew]

Yea. Idk what Image Wagons is tho

[echo latch]

Infinite money glitch

[tawny zephyr]

asian country idk if he wants me to say tho

I mean if u are making big money then u can go in investment category

[earnest mortar]

there are a few big schools with equivalent stature like harvard, wharton, etc.

[echo latch]

We don’t have an insane wait time like india or China

[turbid island]

im betting on korea

[tawny zephyr]

but average swe salary doesnt make sense

[echo latch]

also I’m biased bc bezos used stanford as an example kek

[tawny zephyr]

you can get PR in canada within like 3 - 4 years depending the # of ur points

or wait 15 years on H1-B to get ur greencard

[echo latch]

no goog is summer my recruiter got laid off so I don’t know what’s going on w that anymore

Waiting on project matching

[earnest mortar]

oh i forgot ur a '24 grad or smth

[echo latch]

Or do a master’s and do EB-1

[barren sinew]

I know a few former Canadian international students waiting out for citizenship before theyre moving to the US on TN

[echo latch]

But nah I think it’s p short for my country so I can realistically do H1-B if I want

You need to wait for citizenship anyways to get TN iirc

[tawny zephyr]

isnt that for manager / execs only?

[tawny zephyr]

how long is it

[echo latch]

Nope it’s based on degree

[barren sinew]

Yea

[tawny zephyr]

yea which makes more sense

imo

[turbid island]

but thats fucked for countries with high pop

[tawny zephyr]

they'd open the floodgates

[echo latch]

I don’t know exactly but it’s def reasonable

[tawny zephyr]

not gonna happen anytime soon

[barren sinew]

No good answer really unless they just raise the number given out each year

[turbid island]

?

oh

nvm

i meant like

[echo latch]

it’s fucked for anyone not in those countries

[tawny zephyr]

which wouldnt be good either

[turbid island]

yeah

[tawny zephyr]

cuz most people come to US for jobs and stuff

[echo latch]

bc they have a limited amount they can give out

[turbid island]

thats what i meant

[tawny zephyr]

if they increase by substansial amount then that exclusivity wont be there to the US anymore

if that makes sense

[barren sinew]

?

[turbid island]

but why>

i mean there are some cases

[echo latch]

just get a better spawn location next time

[turbid island]

thats how the world works

[echo latch]

they do have a visa that’s based on “talent” tho

[turbid island]

they want exclusivetivity

[tawny zephyr]

I was thinking that most people come to the US for jobs and if they are handing out green cards like candy then anyone can come work in the US

increased competition

[barren sinew]

I think supporters of the current policy say that if the rule was removed, going through Indian and Chinese applicants would take too long

[tawny zephyr]

and US wont be that exclusive anymore

[echo latch]

https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary-workers/o-1-visa-individuals-with-extraordinary-ability-or-achievement

A swe with a bachelor’s is a dime a dozen

[echo latch]

If you’ve got real talent you can just use this instead

[barren sinew]

The economy isn't a zero sum game imo. Immigrants make jobs

[turbid island]

well just scratch that part they came in knowing that fact tho

[tawny zephyr]

how does their nationality play part

[echo latch]

I know most people’s goal is to immigrate to the US, but the whole point of the visa they’re working with is the fact that it’s temporary

[turbid island]

well if your ideal way to "reform" is to remove cap then the lineup is gonna be unfair for those who are not in the same country

its never gonnna be fair

theres always gonna be compromise

[echo latch]

Even when you come to Canada as an international student you basically have to stay you intend to go back to your country after your education’s done lol

[tawny zephyr]

wdym deported then

[barren sinew]

Green card is equally capped for each country. So since there's a large Indian and Chinese population, there are more applicants and the waitlist is very large

[tawny zephyr]

after u apply for greencard u can get as many H1-B extensions no?

[turbid island]

the line up is gonna be flooded by the same nationality

like

if you remove it for india

[tawny zephyr]

lmaoo then it isnt fair to people who dont work in a field that pays high

[turbid island]

no lol

high populated countries

without cap

[tawny zephyr]

yeah I know

theres no perfect answer tbh

[turbid island]

is unfair for those who are lower

even if you are determining solely on "talent"

whats your way to know what is talent

anyone can bs

[echo latch]

the thing is they want people from lots of diff countries to come in
and this is the best way they could come up with to enforce that

[turbid island]

theres gonna be no diversity tho

[tawny zephyr]

too hard to evaluate

or too much work

with a cap on nationality its straight forward

[echo latch]

H1-B pipeline isn’t a “talent” pipeline tho

It’s literally just for regular workers

[tawny zephyr]

its a workers pipeline

[static scarab]

anyone has any advice for toronto housing for a summer internship?

[echo latch]

They have one for talent and it’s right here

[turbid island]

is that the thing with points

[tawny zephyr]

US telling u to jus get gud

[turbid island]

why would h1b be unfair

[echo latch]

yes not a new grad swe with a bachelor’s
Are there talented people like that? Sure, but they’d be able to make a case for themselves still

Anyways this is turning into US immigration issues

In #canada

[tawny zephyr]

how do they classify u

in extraordinary talent

lmao

[echo latch]

Most people just use Airbnb tbh

[stone moth]

ayo ?

EB1 ?

[echo latch]

You get some good discounts if it’s long enough

[stone moth]

thats kinda so hard to get no ?

[echo latch]

I know a good chunk of people who did that

it was also what I was recommended to do instead of h1-B kek but I’ve done 5 years of school already

No more

[static scarab]

interesting, what is a reasonable price to aim for?

[echo latch]

Where do you wanna stay

[stone moth]

the way they are describing it seems bit extreme for a SWE to get

maybe if you are a good ML researcher or smtg

[echo latch]

I know a couple people who are regular SWE’s with a master’s in CS who did that tho

So there’s def a way to get it

[echo latch]

Stay away from Jane and finch tho

[tawny zephyr]

or placed top of ur class

[stone moth]

u at waterloo ? @echo latch

[echo latch]

no

I’m at uoft

[tawny zephyr]

🧢

[earnest mortar]

is getting to the US that much of an advantage though?

[tawny zephyr]

hes at sheridan college

[stone moth]

$$

[echo latch]

not really apart from money

[earnest mortar]

higher col though depending on the area

[stone moth]

meh still

[echo latch]

Even then senior swe is p good in Canada nowadays

[stone moth]

vancouver isn't cheap

seatlle salaries are like x1.5 / x2

(usd vs cad / less taxes)

[echo latch]

amzn is almost 180k for return new grad

More than enough to live comfortably in Vancouver lol

[tawny zephyr]

taxes are insane though

[stone moth]

amazon Vancouver ?!

[echo latch]

With that accounted for too

yes

[stone moth]

mmmmm are you sure ?

[turbid island]

accounting for housing too?

[earnest mortar]

wait did they up their return offer? i thought it was 160

[tawny zephyr]

and tbh free healthcare doesnt sound good when u have to wait for months to get appointments

[echo latch]

By the time 2024 rolls around it should be higher

[stone moth]

is it normal SDE positions ?

[echo latch]

They increase it every year

yes

[stone moth]

damn thats higher than what I expected jess

[echo latch]

yes

[stone moth]

time to grind lc i guess 😂

[echo latch]

Im prolly gonna return there this summer if google doesn’t work out

Goog like two years ago was ~180k in loo so I assume it’s higher now

With negotiations

[stone moth]

google mountain view ?

[tawny zephyr]

still an accomplishment

[stone moth]

or toronto ?

[echo latch]

loo

[stone moth]

ohh okk

[echo latch]

Main campus is in loo

New Toronto building isn’t open yet

[stone moth]

I see I see

damn you can get EB1 green card in 15 days if you paid an extra for fast processing

[tawny zephyr]

wtf

thats crazy

[stone moth]

I think its less

maybe 1 million in high col or 800k is places such as Mississippi

[echo latch]

It’s not much

It’s like 800k

Oh you saw already

A small loan of 800k

https://tenor.com/view/small-loan-donald-trump-1mil-campaign-speech-gif-5037576

[barren sinew]

Health care is pretty good in Canada imo despite all the media attention

I have family with seriour illness who were treated very promptly. Also some with minor illnesses which were able to see specialists alsmost immediately

[tawny zephyr]

thats good

and unpopular opinion healthcare in the US isnt that bad either

I lived in the US

most needs are covered by insurance

its just for people who cant afford insurance

thats where the problem arises

[barren sinew]

Definitely people working for top companies have great healthcare through their employers. However dealing with insurance or being laid off is the difficult part.

I can go to any doctor in-network but my costs go up significantly if I go out of network

You still need to meet a deductible before the company even pays for anything as well. For one of the companies I've worked for, that's $2-3k

[worldly ridge]

@barren sinew Did you move from US to CAD?

[barren sinew]

Opposite direction

[sudden spruce]

i wouldn't say its generally good though - a lot of cities in ontario with tons of urban sprawl (think gta) aren't scaling hospitals

i had a relative told they'll have to wait nearly 5 weeks to treat something life threatening (lives in the gta)

but yeah definitely depends on where you live, just sucks that places with quickly growing populations aren't getting the resources and funding for new hospitals

[barren sinew]

Healthcare is a provincial responsibility so there could be differences in health care between provinces depending on which political parties have been in power previously. I lived in BC

[sudden spruce]

oh right

yeah its pretty shit in most parts of ontario

lol

mb

[worldly ridge]

Imean its about tto be privatized by douggie at this point

[lunar sandal]

please privatize healthcare

[earnest mortar]

douggie makin big money moves eh

[upper linden]

where all have u interned bruh

[oblique crater]

the H1B cap is one way to deal with it, and the canadian EE point system is another end of the spectrum, each have their advantages and drawbacks

but from a land of opportunity melting pot diversity yada yada standpoint the H1B actually makes more sense, since a relatively equal amount of people from all different nationalities are getting a chance to live in the US permanently

which works for americans since they’re so capitalistic they don’t assume much responsibility over their citizens, whereas if you aim to build a system with socialized services like canada, then you would ideally want the most talented and productive immigrants to support that system through taxes and not strain it

and that ends up favoring countries with more bodies because statistics

[echo latch]

a couple no names

[upper linden]

stop capping bruh

[upper linden]

wait how many months have u interned? 12?

[echo latch]

dont

[echo latch]

it'll be 20 after this

[upper linden]

fine

[stone moth]

do they still use country of birth for caps ?

ie: if you bornin China or India just forget it

[upper linden]

unfortunate really

[stone moth]

ironically they have a program called "diversity green card" lottery where they give 55000 green card/ year to random people

if they werent born in 10 countries or so

mexico / canada / china/ india / japan ....

Im applying every year still no luck LOL

requirements : high school degree thats it

why lol ?

it makes sens prolly in 1960s not now

although im prolly benefiting from this program, I think a point based system (canaada like ) is more fair

[echo latch]

no no

[stone moth]

it takes forever to changes / updates laws in the US

[boreal sentinel]

lmao talented and productive

we r getting many vicky singhs from rural punjab and haryana to fill the blue collar shortage

which leads to this

https://toronto.citynews.ca/2022/09/14/sword-swinging-brampton-brawl/

[fast warren]

did anyone get an email from geocomply saying their gonna get oa but never got it?

[graceful oyster]

I received it

they tell you in the first email you can email them and ask to resend

[real parcel]

I received the 2 forms to fill out this morning but that’s it

[proud coyote]

Anyone know how it'll take for rbc offer letter & background check?

[analog current]

didnt take that long for me (co op)

it was pretty quick, 1.5 weeks approx

[proud coyote]

Ah ok. I filled out the bg check form last thursday so ig I'll get the offer letter late this week or next week

ty

[hallow urchin]

how tf do i prepare for a drw technical
canada based

im gonnna get analed im so bad at lc

[candid oxide]

heard some ppl didnt even get asked lc at least 1st round

[wispy estuary]

just bombed a tech/final interview

[edgy rose]

this has to be satire

[vivid fiber]

Obv u r not a dev who lives, breathes and dreams in code

smh

[edgy rose]

i am not. its interesting because this is the first time im seeing something like this

[barren sinew]

Pay: $55k

[vivid fiber]

Prob cuz u r not a dev who lives, breathes and dreams in code

[edgy rose]

with PHP as their main language

[tawny raptor]

Pay: unlimited code (its all you need to live)

[real parcel]

Yes I think everyone should’ve gotten those

[sour bison]

It's very team dependant I think so it really depends on the team ur interviewing for. All teams don't do leetcode style questions so it really depends

[hallow urchin]

Ok Im fucked

if they ask me to demo my rpoects I'm fucked
Half my projects aren't finished

[vivid fiber]

Thats fine

As long as you havent lied on ur resume abt dem bein done

Just hav 1~2 prepped so u can easily showcase it locally

[hallow urchin]

EHYXYVV I don't even wanna have to showcase two of them

Fuckck

[hallow urchin]

Kinda did sorta
Oh well whatever happens happens

[vivid meteor]

is it better to take a QA offer for a bigger company or full stack offer for a smaller less known company?

[sudden wave]

Personally I’d go with full stack

[sour bison]

I also think full stack might be better if ur trying to pursue software development/engineering roles in the future

[eternal fossil]

just know that once you take a QA role

youll most likely be passed over for dev roles and asked to interview for QA roles

not that theres anything wrong with it

money is money

QA has money in it

but its just preference

source: trust me bro (i been thru this in my internship process)

[sudden wave]

Me but for devops

[lunar sandal]

anyone done geocomply oa?

[turbid island]

which one swe or ds

[lunar sandal]

ds

arent both hackerranks

[turbid island]

yeah

but ds is different

there was multiple choice on stats/ml

one involving pandas

another about predicting some shit given arrays

[lunar sandal]

wtf?

can i DM

[turbid island]

shoot away

[hallow urchin]

doing the swe one rn
not really taking it seriously tho

its onsite for 25/hr in vancouver no thank u

[tawny raptor]

Damn only 25?

[lunar sandal]

WTF?

i have to go to BC?

[hallow urchin]

i think thats what the job desc said

[lunar sandal]

https://tenor.com/view/bbcan3-bbcan-kevin-martin-too-easy-its-too-easy-gif-13874509

[tight gale]

Hello friends

[echo latch]

Hello

https://tenor.com/view/juan-gif-21122849

[eternal fossil]

hello

[honest perch]

i got the final interview email from ibm

[ripe crescent]

congrats! which practice/location?

[broken onyx]

Did you also get the two forms email yesterday

[honest perch]

thank you! for associate developer at montreal

[honest perch]

yes i also got them

which location did you guys apply ?

[ripe crescent]

Toronto! Still waiting to hear back 🥺

[broken onyx]

Did you get the two forms yesterday

[ripe crescent]

Yeah, check your spam maybe if you haven't yet?

Everyone should be getting it! They say it has nothing to do w moving forward in the process

[edgy rose]

I wonder if this has happened to anybody else:
I got an invite for the final interview, which said, reply back so we can set up a final interview.

The next day, I get a rejection email from the same company saying, we went with other candidates, sorry.

I'm still waiting to hear back.

[errant yoke]

When was your speed round?

[honest perch]

mine mas last tuesday

[errant yoke]

I wonder if anyone got Toronto but did their speed round on 31st

[grave quest]

has anyone interviewed for "technical systems analyst" or "cloud developer" at RBC?

i have two interviews and I wanted to know the interview process is like

[mental monolith]

Hahaha finally rejected by ebay

[upper linden]

What’s the difference between software developer intern and systems developer intern?

[eternal fossil]

systems sounds like more low level

[upper linden]

shiiiiit

[eternal fossil]

but depends on job description lol

[upper linden]

wait ill show u

can i dm u?

[eternal fossil]

ya show

[stone moth]

Anyone here at CGI ?

[oblique crater]

nah i’m at home

[stone moth]

You can ask your employer (if its not a big company) to change your job title

I did that in a technical help desk position to match something close to what iirc wants (immigration stuff) same job description just changed title

[hallow urchin]

anyone hear back from splunk vancouver? i did not fml

[ripe crescent]

I was!! Are you doing Friday?

[hallow urchin]

When it came out I think

[hallow urchin]

Bro why y'all asking ME random questions just answer MY question gah damn
2025

[lunar sandal]

😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂

[hallow urchin]

Thank you !!
someone useful finally

[silk torrent]

i got ghosted by them too lmao

[muted portal]

no

I applied though

[vivid fiber]

It just opened + Splunk is super competitive

[uneven vigil]

they said no to my ass for all the new grad jobs, even if it's in Montreal

[uneven vigil]

never heard anyone get in RBC directly as a new grad, but I did see on my LinkedIn someone getting in RBC from an internship there, he just converted to full time

[grave quest]

apologies, I should've added that these are internship roles

[ripe crescent]

I'm wondering this too 😭 The email they sent said interviews were beginning this week

[ripe crescent]

Also! Is your final interview technical or behavioural? If you know

[honest perch]

I heard people say it's about going through your resume and past projects, and small technical questions about them, not 100% sure tho
So if anyone has more information about that !

[oblique crater]

gm

[lost wedge]

Did anyone got Ceridian interview?

[short robin]

not me, but a friend of mine did

[honest perch]

what is a salesforce developer ? thoughts on that position ?

ibm invited me for another interview but for their salesforce team this time but i never used/worked with salesforce before

[errant yoke]

What location

[honest perch]

montreal too

[unborn schooner]

just a developer that makes salesforce apps, you'll be working with their own language apex and the framework lightning

[honest perch]

ok thank you, did you ever make salesforce apps before ? does it look interesting for you ?

[unborn schooner]

I haven't, it doesn't interest me because the language and frameworks you use aren't used outside of salesforce

It's still definitely a real dev role but I don't really want to work with proprietary languages and tech

[lunar sandal]

Yeah but imagine someone’s being paid bare to know abt and maintain that proprietary tech

[lucid berry]

You can get stuck in that kind of position tho

[oblique crater]

definitely ask what kind of salesforce app it is

we use salesforce on our team this thing called Salesforce Commerce Cloud, a multi country website management system, but salesforce just bought it from another company a few years ago and didn’t build it from the ground up, so it’s not integrated with their stack, our dev team uses js and ts to interact with it

just kinda slapped a name on it

[honest perch]

ok thank you all for the advices

[hallow urchin]

I MUST GET IT else i will be deprssed this summer
i will need a gf to fix that
do u have a single sister my age into anime?

[vivid fiber]

Cringe

[tawny zephyr]

bruh

u clearly arent getting a single one of those things if ur gonna sit on here and do nothing

no offense

[worldly ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/kots-straal-spugen-vomit-puke-gif-14891152

[drifting shore]

ANIME

[drifting shore]

Cringe

[hallow urchin]

Cringe

[novel dome]

Rbc ghosted

So it don’t even matter

[echo latch]

gm

[errant field]

guys

what to do if one has accepted an internship offer that they don't want to do?

are you forced to do an internship if you've accepted the offer?

[uneven vigil]

you can charge true consulting fees as long Salesforces stays alive just like SAP or Oracle lol

[candid oxide]

renege

[lunar sandal]

i wish i had these problems

[shadow forum]

anyone know how long it takes to hear back after bell group interview?

[ashen mason]

Is it not in the terms of the offer? If just verbal offer then no.

[alpine portal]

Like 2 weeks ish

[shadow forum]

thank you!

[foggy pasture]

Did everyone got an internship this season?

I feel this season has just been hard

[worthy fjord]

return offer from prev internship

[foggy pasture]

thats great

[worthy fjord]

try this fellowship https://fellowship.mlh.io/

i heard its decent

can choose between three programs

but yea this year its rough like within 1 hour positions have 1k applicants

[foggy pasture]

thanks for recommending really appreciate it. But I am gonna work at the place where I previously worked. But was really disappointed that I didnt find anything else this year

[worthy fjord]

ahh i see im in the same position like the companies great and all but I wanted to work at a diff company and make new connections

but dont think imma land anything soon cause i think offers are starting to roll out

[foggy pasture]

I am hoping to find something for fall. Before I was planning to do 16 months co-op now I just wanna do 8 months and graduate faster

Hopefully find something for fall

[worthy fjord]

yea im just planning to do these 4 months and then grad next year

tired of this shit lol

[timber hamlet]

I'm chocked by how little internships opportunities there are this season, in my field at least (AI/ML). I was planning on only applying in my city Mtl, but it seems I have to apply everywhere and hope for at least a remote one

[foggy pasture]

Dude so true. Like I am in Calgary the tech scene isn’t great either. I am just applying everywhere and hoping for best but just can’t get anything right now. Well this also has turned me into a person who is sucking recruiters cock on LinkedIn.

[worn moss]

theres way less opportunities then usual, earlier this season it was fine (novemberish) but like its been progressively getting worse since then

[analog current]

this application cycle has been awful

had to accept something for 18/h as my first internship, which is chill but mot ideal

[foggy pasture]

Agreed. Like November was the time when big companies start slowing down with hiring.

Like how can these companies be that fucking dumb. How do you not realise that 2020 was a special year and they won’t sell that much product/ services again in 2021 or 2022 like are they fucking high

[timber hamlet]

yeah I got at least 3-4 emails in the end of 2022 where they said they're freezing hiring interns for this season

I know people with 2+ yoe in their field (me included) doing masters like me and they're still searching

[foggy pasture]

Dude I have like 8 yoe as a 3rd year student still struggling to find something. Now I am regretting not preparing for interviews that I had in November

[barren sinew]

8 yeo as a 3rd year? How?

[foggy pasture]

My bad. 8month

Lmao

Sorry about that

[timber hamlet]

haha yeah, I messed up couple of OAs as well

• it seems 95% of campanies are recruiting only for 3-4 months internships, and I need 6 at least

[foggy pasture]

^ same

[worldly ridge]

hellow fellow uw student

[foggy pasture]

Bro I kid you not my luck with OA is so bad. I had the worst DP questions while my friend for the same job got asked the easiest stuff

[worn moss]

y

what uni forces u to a 6 moth coop

[timber hamlet]

for non-thesis master's they do I think, at least mine does

[echo latch]

j-1 not difficult at all

tn will def be tougher

they raise eyebrows at cs kids for doing software engineering

[ripe crescent]

Does anyone know what to expect for the Telus GTLP phone interview?

[lunar sandal]

HOW are u landing these interview

are u 3rd year

[ripe crescent]

I'm looking for ng

[lunar sandal]

Oh

Nvm me 🥹

[graceful heart]

Basic BQ

[ripe crescent]

did you do it? the initial email was kinda weird bc it said "technical questions" but it also seemed to focus on bg. wasn't sure which way it was heading lol

[graceful heart]

I did the GTLP video presentation interview. I didn’t have a phone interview. But my bf had the phone interview

He said it was about BQ

[ripe crescent]

ohh can i dm

[graceful heart]

Sure

[vapid latch]

has anyone done the Deep Genomics technical interview? if so pm me

also anyone interview with Perpetua?

The Cohere.ai take-home was stupid easy 💀

praying they invite me to final round

[keen flume]

Ng or intern

[vapid latch]

intern

[echo latch]

Gl

Cali? My friend’s dog’s is named cali

She’s very cute

[stone moth]

here we go again 💀

[upper linden]

why is amazon the only faang where i got an interview :/

is getting an interview rng for these companies or is there a system they follow?

[echo latch]

It’s rng

Amazon generally hires a lot so there’s more chances of you getting an interview tho

[upper linden]

yee i just get ghosted by the rest of the top tech companies 🥲

[lunar sandal]

yeah we all did bro get in line

[vapid latch]

live coding exercise today

[vapid latch]

RIP i messed that up

i guess it wont be the last

[graceful heart]

Hey, anyone hear back after the final interview of Deloitte technical engineer consulting

[torn roost]

Hey guys I have recently secured an offer thanks to lots of advice I got from this server. I wanted to give back so I wrote an article about everything I learned while job searching this year. I know there aren't many positions right, but I hope this can help some people https://michaelsheinman.medium.com/how-to-land-a-new-grad-job-324130809d2b

[hardy minnow]

anyone do an interview at sanofi?

[vapid latch]

i literally just applied like 10 mins ago

[hardy minnow]

for what role?

[vapid latch]

swe intern

[hardy minnow]

data + swe ?

or just swe

[vapid latch]

let me check

data + swe

[hardy minnow]

ok ye

thats the one i got as well

[vapid latch]

is first round just phone screen?

[hardy minnow]

nah im pre sure its just tech right away

[vapid latch]

o dang

[upper linden]

yo i got that one as well, when is ur interview?

[hardy minnow]

feb 13

wbu

[upper linden]

same

time?

[hardy minnow]

1pm

[upper linden]

BRUH

[hardy minnow]

? LOL

whens urs

[upper linden]

1pm

[hardy minnow]

ayoooooo?

wait whos ur recruiter

[upper linden]

i dont remeber applyng here

[hardy minnow]

nah i def applied lmfao

[upper linden]

Shweta GAIKAR

[hardy minnow]

it was on my school portal

[upper linden]

ah then maybe i must have applied

[hardy minnow]

12 months?

or 4

[upper linden]

12

[hardy minnow]

hmm

welp

yeah thats weird asf

prolly same hiring manager

whend u respond to the email

[upper linden]

whats ur guys name?

[hardy minnow]

jankovic

[upper linden]

like 2 miins ago

ye its the same

[hardy minnow]

they mightve just sent out a bunch

[upper linden]

prolly

[hardy minnow]

and take the first one who responded for 1pm

and rescheudle the rest?

idfk

[oblique crater]

wtf lmao

prepare for a group interview where you’re put head to head to solve a leetcode problem for the offer

[hardy minnow]

LOL ggs

[upper linden]

any1 heard back from demonware? 👀

[upper linden]

what tiime did u get the email?

[hardy minnow]

go dms so we not spammin

[echo latch]

demon

[smoky plover]

has anyone done the bell OA for ai and data eng?

[timber hamlet]

anyone done the on-site BNP Parisbas interview ?

[vapid latch]

so scotiabank just called me

wadda fuck does "derivative pricing models" mean

the HR lady said the interview would be behavioural, technical questions, and also math questions??

[oblique crater]

@vapid latch you on the grind frfr, hope you get an offer

[vapid latch]

bro i literally just wanted to take a nap

checked my text msgs

and saw it

[timber hamlet]

this looks more like a quant position question than anything else

[vapid latch]

I KNOW

BRO THESE PLACES KEEP CONTACITNG ME FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN SWE

i told the hr lady im not interested

and its funny cause my resume literally just has frontend and some backend development

[timber hamlet]

yeah they seem not be reading the resume at all, sometimes it seems random, or the hr doesn't know anything and just goes by school name

[merry shoal]

I got a recruiter on LinkedIn reach out to me for a business job I was like wtf but I look into the company more and it's a tech company and I notice they have entry level position for Hardware and software eng so I ask if I can apply for that. Now I'm in 3rd interview for hardware eng job (I prefer hardware over software) so I guess it worked out but honestly I have nothing business related on my resume or profile LOL

[merry shoal]

The picture has FDM group 💀💀💀

[vapid latch]

im pretty sure her and the hiring manager looked at my resume, saw gresearch, and was like ok good enough

completely ignoring the fact that i 80% have FRONTEND web dev experience

[worn moss]

is this for capital markets?

[vapid latch]

no

it was for some random place

[torn roost]

Lol I took it from unsplash

So it's free to use

[timber eagle]

Isn’t it better to take a non dev job then no job?

[vapid latch]

rip how hard is cisco

[vapid latch]

both

damn fair enough

[tawny raptor]

Cisco ottawa?

[drifting shore]

Easy

[turbid island]

bruh ciscos actually a capper

there was a career fair and they said as long as u pass the oa u will get an interview

[drifting shore]

I did the oa in September

Didn’t even send a rejection email

[errant yoke]

Thats why they dont reject, they will call you for an interview in 10 years

[untold nebula]

cisco oa is easy, getting past resume screen after oa is hard

they get like 2000 applicants but only hire max 50 in canada

[vapid latch]

geez

[tawny raptor]

Do they even pay good in Canada

[candid oxide]

no but their subsidiaries do

[tawny raptor]

Do they have any other than meraki?

[hallow urchin]

got rejected from drw im saddneedendeds

[steel escarp]

not like top notch but its decent imo

[analog current]

how much do they pay

[timid tartan]

Not top notch bcs you are the one who has top notch salary 😭

[steel escarp]

look at my name i'm simping for 50k

😭

so i can survive

[timid tartan]

🙂

I really shouldn't have referred you smh

[steel escarp]

but we're friends 😭

[timid tartan]

You’re just a bully

[steel escarp]

who did i bully 😭

[timid tartan]

Me ofc

Every single day

[steel escarp]

wdym u bully me everyday

[candid oxide]

thousandeyes

[untold nebula]

it can vary wildly

30-50/h for cisco canada (not meraki)

depends on team and your previous experience

[echo latch]

[quiet ferry]

last yr meraki paid 67/hr + 10k bonus cad

[tranquil venture]

From where you guys applying?

[timber hamlet]

DRW rejection, nice way to start the weekend

[echo latch]

cisco

[barren sinew]

In Canada?

[quiet ferry]

ya remote

[barren sinew]

Me out here working for Cisco on a team that works closely with Meraki, but not with Meraki pay 😭

[dark lintel]

new grad or internship?

I guess new grad nvm,

[quiet ferry]

nah internship

[echo latch]

that's p nice for remote

[dark lintel]

sheesh

Is this Canada?

mb someone asked already

[quiet ferry]

ya but that was last year cuz everything was remote, now i would assume it’s not the same

[dark lintel]

is that the same salary they gave to the US interns

[quiet ferry]

ya US salary was 50USD so they converted that to cad for us

[dark lintel]

that's really generous

I know Cisco Ottawa pays like around 110k

for new grad

[real storm]

any new grad mans getting jobs out here

like im literally dying rn

[tranquil venture]

Had you given the test for Sanofi?

[hardy minnow]

i didnt write any oa

[tranquil venture]

So you directly got interview invite? 🤔

When did you apply

[hardy minnow]

ye

uh

within the last week i think

[tranquil venture]

Ohh okayy
You applied through your school portal?

[hardy minnow]

ye

[tranquil venture]

Ah cool

I gave a test on 5th Feb

[edgy rose]

how many apps did you send

[tranquil venture]

Idk if I'm considered anymore or not :/

[hardy minnow]

oh

data and swe intern?

[tranquil venture]

Yup

[hardy minnow]

might do a round 2 filter maybe

cause ik they sent out a bunch of interview invites

but they might send out more in the next couple days

idt sanofi is that cracked for them to do multiple rounds so u might just have to wait

[tranquil venture]

Ya let's hope so

[hardy minnow]

yurr

[tranquil venture]

Btw which uni you're attending?

[analog current]

for intern or full tine

im mainly inquiring about full tine

i got a co op there i jusr wanna see how much a return offer could reach

[tranquil venture]

Can I ask where are you guys applying from for coops and what is working out for you

[drifting shore]

https://github.com/Queen-s-COMPSA/Canadian-Tech-Internships-2023

[stone moth]

any experience with O-1 visa ?

do Canadians even bother about this kinda of visa since if you are that good you prolly eligible for stress free TN anyway

[lost wedge]

Did anyone got interviews at 10KC, Blackberry or Ceridian? Please DM me

[topaz linden]

It’s 40/h + 10k now

[quiet ferry]

rip

[untold nebula]

Intern

[boreal sentinel]

tOroNTO iS a teCH hUb

[merry shoal]

does everyone who applies for bell get the 72 hour video interview thing?

this is for the bell new grad with the video interview?

[worn ivy]

anyone got in veeva system in toronto?

[merry shoal]

ah ok, I remember in 3rd year or smtn I had a Group Interview for bell I forgot if I had to do a video first I don't think so but I ended up not going to the interview because I had a midterm and they couldn't reschedule for me 💀

Must be a pain for the recruiters to watch all these videos

[vapid latch]

LOL i just told them i’m not interested

[lucid berry]

Two of my friends did and got internships offers from them after a group interview

Dude, wtf that was a 2 months ago message

💀

Oh yeah, a month

My time perspective is fucked

27

It's fine

Depends on where you live

[merry shoal]

oof, well I guess they are still interviewing I applied and just got the email for the interview

sorry I just searched "bell" and that came up

sorry that you didn't hear back

wondering if it was worth me even doing the interview bc im super busy these next few days

[merry shoal]

do you know salary for anyone who got a New Grad offer

[vivid fiber]

For ur first internship?

Pretty good imo

[shadow forum]

I wonder how long did it take for your friends to get the offer after the group interview?

[lunar sandal]

anyone still offerless

[tranquil venture]

Yeh 😭

[lunar sandal]

yep that too

[tranquil venture]

Is it difficult to get interview invites if you are not applying through school portal?

And just applying through the general company website?

Oh that's good to hear

[lunar sandal]

school portal? bro yk for most good postings my school portal tells u to apply both there AND on company site

so basically i got scammed

same

[tranquil venture]

Do you guys message the recruiters on LinkedIn and stuff

[lunar sandal]

but like, my school board(s) are pretty fucking ass

uoft

i did snowflake OA

like 2 months

before they posted it

what a joke

[tranquil venture]

Lol why wdym

[lunar sandal]

i find better and more recently posted positions on glassdoor than I do on the portals

nuff said

[lucid berry]

a few weeks

[shadow forum]

thank you!

[lucid berry]

That was back in October btw

[vapid latch]

anyone doing perpetua take home?

[novel dome]

Anyone done 10 thousand coffees interview?

[lost wedge]

I completed mini coding assignment

Anyone done 10 thousand coffees

[echo latch]

gm

[lucid berry]

gn

[edgy rose]

damn toronto is actually nice today

for once

[edgy rose]

yeah not so much where im

[echo latch]

good day in seattle too

[bold ice]

how did u do on this?

[oblique crater]

https://www.willowtreeapps.com/careers/jobs

a couple newgrad positions here

[eternal fossil]

can i have this job

[hallow urchin]

i ended up making 3 emails/accounts just to apply to amazon 2023 internships
different terms though
well 2/3 of those accounts got disabled. so um never doing that again

[static scarab]

same 😭 , their system to detect duplicates is actually decent

[lunar sandal]

isn't it a ghostposting?

they posted Summer 2023 intern LAST Fall

and its the same posting being advertized

[drifting shore]

Not risking it for next year

Might have a chance next year

[lucid berry]

They're desperate

[eternal fossil]

goddamn

you gotta hit up a recruiter on linkedin

and just tell em to remove your shit from the blacklist

but honestly its OK LMAO

[lucid berry]

Does that actually work?

[eternal fossil]

people are reaming you a new one

[eternal fossil]

if you ask them once why shouldnt it work

yeah its not that bad LMAO

[lucid berry]

I don't think it's that bad tbh

[echo latch]

they merge your accounts

it's a very simple process unless you basically change your identity

it's literally a leetcode question lol

but I very much doubt they'll blacklist you

[lucid berry]

Yeah lmao

[echo latch]

we're talking about a company that doesn't blacklist for reneging

i mean im sure most companies do lol

that's not the same as the scenario we're talking about here?

the interview process doesn't start until you get at least an OA?

you're already in interview mode when you're applying for the job?

to reiterate, i dont condone it it's just not something they'd blacklist for lol

i was there this past summer and multiple people did "game the system" the way you're talking about kek

they were all fine

but yeah again it's a simple process to merge accounts anyways just apply and see what happens

[wet sleet]

anyone done the caseware OA?

[lunar sandal]

what the fuck is cse

[analog current]

any advice for presenting relevant awards on resumes?

[hallow urchin]

Yeah the reason I made more accounts was because I wanted to apply for different seasons
And I thought I'd be fine

Definitely probably not a blacklist

Same

[hallow urchin]

Wdym exactly gaming the system? Applying with different accounts?

[echo latch]

Doesn’t matter

Yes

[worldly ridge]

Beautiful weather today guys ❤️

[raw ocean]

snow everywhere

[hallow urchin]

my winter tires are gettingn fugged with this heat

[worldly ridge]

It's going to be like 11c this weekin ontario

😍

[real storm]

is it just me or is the market for new grads in canada absolutely barren

[oblique crater]

few jobs came out yesterday check grad postings

[edgy rose]

https://tenor.com/view/travolta-desert-dry-drought-gif-20765263

[real storm]

i guess that would mean more time spent on applying and building things rather than schooling

[vivid fiber]

It gets easier with more professional experience

Idt entry level recruiting will necessarily get easier

[echo latch]

Entry level will always be convoluted

[vivid fiber]

Nah I tink atm it is def mor saturated

Idt it was dis bad a few years ago

[echo latch]

Maybe not but it’ll just get worse for entry level

[edgy rose]

how to run away from entry level and get more experience

[vivid fiber]

get an entry level job and work for a few years

[edgy rose]

right so how do we do that

[vivid fiber]

apply to entry level positions

[edgy rose]

i think the most i have applied in a day is to 48 jobs

[vivid fiber]

good work

keep it up 😃 👍

[edgy rose]

yeah im trying

[ripe crescent]

Has anyone done the phone screen w Hinge Health?

[wispy estuary]

finally got a new grad job

quick look at my experience

[vivid fiber]

congrats 🎊

[graceful heart]

Has anyone hear back from Deloitte?

[bold ice]

has anyone else applied to Sanofi?

[oblique crater]

entry was ass even in the best of times

it’s just even worse rn

[oblique crater]

huge win, wdym by 31 response, does that mean emails/OAs?

[worldly ridge]

2 tech screening, 1 offer

[wispy estuary]

either HR reaching out for an interview, or rejection emails (not ghosted)

[oblique crater]

oh i see, 1/4 from phone screen is a great ratio great job, when do you start

[wispy estuary]

June, they were pretty flexible since I'm relocating to NS from ON

[echo latch]

Congrats

[keen flume]

What do you use to map this?

[vivid fiber]

I kno simplify does dis

[edgy rose]

congrats one day this will be me

[barren sinew]

Congrats! Which company?

[wispy estuary]

Lockheed Martin

[idle geyser]

has anyone heard back from bmo after completing the digital one-way interview?

[wispy estuary]

sankeymatic.com/build/

[edgy rose]

they will do a super interview next

[tight gale]

Congratz!

[tight gale]

What was process like?

[novel dome]

Anyone get the Splunk OA?

[wispy estuary]

Pretty simple
HR Interview - Behavioural
Tech Interview - Behavioural + Tech questions

Mostly OOP related

[stone moth]

U American?

[wispy estuary]

Canadian

[stone moth]

ah ok lol they have an office here

u had to do backgroud check or smtg ?

[wispy estuary]

yeah, normal background checks for a security clearance

[stone moth]

citizenship required ?

right ?

(canadian )

[wispy estuary]

not sure

but probably

[stone moth]

okk

tyy and gl

[merry crystal]

got rejected today

[worldly ridge]

Happy valentines day <3!

[placid dawn]

studying abroad best decision of my life

are amz apps open

[vapid latch]

[tranquil venture]

Me and I gave their OA

[bold ice]

did you do the interview

[tranquil venture]

Nope wbu

[vapid latch]

wow anyone get invitation to the Slalom Build final interview?

[bold ice]

yeah yeah

some people got the interview without doing the OA

how’d u do on the OA?

fuckin excel files 🤣

[tranquil venture]

Oh you didn't give the OA?

[bold ice]

i did

[tranquil venture]

Ahh so you gave the interview after that?

[bold ice]

yeah like a week later

[tranquil venture]

Ohh
Approx when did you give the OA

[bold ice]

5th

[tranquil venture]

Quite okay

[bold ice]

was it above 10 cuz if it was idk how u didn’t get the interview

[tranquil venture]

You can see your score?

[bold ice]

yeah go on codesignal

[bold ice]

@tranquil venture howd u do

[tawny raptor]

@vapid latch what year are you in?

[vapid latch]

technically 4th

but 3rd year of cs

[tawny raptor]

Ah ok

Jw cause you seem to be getting so many ints lol

[vapid latch]

i think 90% of it is my mlh experience on my resume

[edgy rose]

happy valentines day everyone

[tranquil venture]

I got 9 💀

[bold ice]

what did you use for extraction?

[tranquil venture]

As in?
I just used Excel and colab

[ripe crescent]

lmao my interviewer missed our interview??? 💀

[lucid berry]

Bloomberg

[echo latch]

Google

My goog interviewer didn’t show up

[vapid latch]

happened to me with this place back in dec

and they never followed up

[ripe crescent]

omfg im so sad that this isn't a unique experience ??? it's so disrespectful:((