And sold for a reason
#stonks
unreal quest
Biased towards the rich
Typo
When I sold before hours on Thursday it was already sharply declining
From a peak of like 500
15% unexplained decline was enough for me to sell
And I feel that my sale may have led to a very significant drop in price
waxen fractal
And sold for a reason
Sold but came back up, everyone was saying hold for the same reason you’re saying it now
unreal quest
I’m still buying back in
waxen fractal
There’s 2 reasons why ppl are buying
To make a profit
To stick it to the institutions
If you fall under the 2nd be willing to lose all your money and risk only enough you’re willing to take
waxen fractal
15% unexplained decline was enough for me to sell
This type of stuff will continue to happen as the institutions aren’t trying to go down without a fight
unreal quest
The weird thing was that it happened literally hours before robinhood made the announcement
And typically institutions can move the price
Which leads me to believe that some institutions may have had insider information
Just a conspiracy theory
But a possible explanation
waxen fractal
I’m just saying if your plan is to hold til the end don’t invest more than you’re willing to lose
Or else you’ll end up selling
waxen fractal
I’m still buying back in
It doesn’t matter if you bought back in, selling to begin with allowed funds to cover their shorts
That’s why short float dropped from 140 to 113%
waxen fractal
And I feel that my sale may have led to a very significant drop in price
There’s nothing wrong with selling but it’s super hypocritical to tell ppl to hold now when you sold in the past, especially since you’re saying your sale significantly impacted the market and potential for this whole squeeze
unreal quest
im buying back in for that reason
i have no idea how much impact my sale had (said it half jokingly)
it honestly was a panic sale
and the whole hold mentality really came to me after the robinhood thing
it only gave me more motivation to buy back in
its been a day and three quarters since my sale
mentality completely changed after the whole robinhood thing
im buying back in and very much encouraging it
buy and hold!
unreal quest
Such a loser
I think gme will go to 500 by the end of next week
Even more
Anyone else trying to pump up dogecoin even more?
There’s gonna be some drastic changes in the system
The markets will become more democratized
The little guy will become the king
Citadel will die
This will become the new normal
The owners of the market will start to shift
And we, CS majors, are gonna be the ones to start it
We’re gonna build new systems and create new types of funds that actually help people
We’re gonna build a democratized trading platform
unreal quest
What stocks will we long next?
We have the right ideas
Need to get our voices in front of millions of ppl
We could have a serious influence
Guess we could share our ideas in servers with hundreds of thousands of ppl and wsb
Honest question should I post this on wsb an doxx myself?
The concerns are security related
But I could really start the beginning of a new thing
vivid shard
I miss the old WSB the straight to the go WSB
visual raptorBOT
@gusty totem has entered the community.
dense osprey
did wsb triple in suscribers
i had to unsuscribe
is it even class warfrae
ppl trying to frame it as a revolution lol
hedge funds making money off of gme too you know
ppl are gonna be absolutely fuarked after this
yesterday i saw a tiktok where this dude was teaching people how to sell naked puts on robinhood
visual raptorBOT
Wow, @winged locust just joined! Who brought the cake?!
winged locust
They aren’t really harming anyone but themselves though. Other than the firms that had short positions they had to cover like Melvin, hedge funds are basically exclusively winning off of this.
hexed rose
💎 👐 💎 👐 💎 👐
hexed rose
It doesn’t matter if you bought back in, selling to begin with allowed funds to ...
this
hexed rose
There’s nothing wrong with selling but it’s super hypocritical to tell ppl to ho...
this
@unreal quest stop 🧻 👐 xd
glad ur back in tho :D
winged locust
I mean many probably are
junior tapir
volume was way lower thursday/friday then it was earlier in the week
visual raptorBOT
Have no fear, @regal ore is here!
regal ore
Twitter
gentle phoenix
unreal quest
One share??????
One fucking share??????
That’s ant stuff
Who do they fucking think we are
They’ve lost nearly all our trust
And we all know how poorly they’re doing financially
Robinhood literally doesn’t have the cash to cover orders
Hence the emergency funding
But it will be gone in no time
We cannot trust a company that can’t even maintain proper reserves.
They need to be prepared for things like this
Robinhood never had the volume of a real broker. They were never in a position to handle things like this, so they can’t be trusted
Fidelity and vanguard have been around for decades and are too big to fail. Something like this will not affect them. They’re also major holders of gme
Fidelity has trillions under management
Robinhood needed a credit loan for $500 million
Probably at a very high interest rate
When we build this app, we can partner with fidelity to facilitate trades, and the value provided will be the ui (realistically, they’re users are boomers and they can’t really make such a drastic change)
winged locust
When we build this app, we can partner with fidelity to facilitate trades, and t...
fidelity has an app already.
winged locust
just use that app if that's your plan. otherwise you're just adding expense
unreal quest
It’s very unintuitive
And hard for new users
That’s the biggest benefit Robinhood provides
But when I signed up for etrade, they threw all the information at me. It was complicated, but at least they’re not hiding anything. Robinhood is dumbing things down and hiding a lot of stuff
winged locust
there's a huge cost tradeoff of having fees/no fees for trades, especially if you're doing your own clearing. Also, they're not exactly dumbing things down. They offer limited kinds of trades and minimal extra information so that it can be intuitive (though less informed)
winged locust
sure after many years of not being free and having huge industry connections
unreal quest
Commission free trading is a very new thing
Everyone has gone commission free in the past few years
winged locust
the reason flow is sent to hft for a lot of brokers now is to help cover clearing costs with no broker fees
exactly
unreal quest
They just weren’t able to figure out how to do it before this
winged locust
basically because robinhood offered it and they wanted to stay competetive with customers
unreal quest
If they’re doing their own clearing, then they’re more trustworthy. They have all the internal information and communication gaps shouldn’t be a problem
If robinhood and their clearing house had a communication gap, that’s a huge problem
winged locust
clearing isn't free though. and you have to cover cost differences between trades .
if I agree to buy for X
and someone else agrees to sell for Y and we're the "closest" prices for whatever algo they use
unreal quest
Fidelity makes money by earning interest in their aum I think
How do they offer it for free?
What’s the catch
winged locust
they have to cover the cost difference so that I can actually pay X and they can get Y
unreal quest
They have 3 trillion aum
At a very conservative 1% return, that’s 30 billion
The cost to cover the trades isn’t anywhere near that
winged locust
they have way more funds and when trading less volume with lower volatility things, you can easily break even or profit on average
unreal quest
With that much aum this won’t break them
winged locust
robinhood had highest volume of gme and is a smaller startup
unreal quest
Clearing trades probably costs hundreds of millions of dollars. Robinhood doesn’t have that
winged locust
not a huge established firm
unreal quest
That’s nothing to fidelity
winged locust
sure, that's the difference between a new(er) startup and a well-established large business
your app will be much smaller than robinhood if you make it (until it "catches on" if that ever even happens)
unreal quest
The extra $500m probably in clearing fees was enough to break robinhood. Fidelity wouldn’t even have to tap into their reserves to handle that
unreal quest
your app will be much smaller than robinhood if you make it (until it "catches o...
That’s why I’d be partnering with fidelity
Or vanguard
Since they can be trusted
winged locust
you still have to pay clearing fees though
you need the capital to do that whether or not you self clear
trust isn't really the problem here
to trade with no limit on volume and no fees even in volatile markets, you need huge backing capital and minimal other costs due to efficient and effective infrastructure
fidelity did raise their margin costs on various kinds of trades, so it's not like they did nothing to limit sells and buys of options
lethal harness
wallstreet bets bought a fkn billboard
unreal quest
The value add would probably be selling them the UI
lethal harness
what the fuck
winged locust
they just were secure enough with a smaller volume of trades through them and more capital that they didn't need to halt entirely
unreal quest
Which they could acquire
A better UI would drastically increase their customer base
And they’d have more money that they’d be earning interest off of
To handle this
Robinhood could never afford be a major player
Unless they reached trillions aum
winged locust
they could over time
likely
but sure not in a sudden huge burst above what they can handle
winged locust
Robinhood could never afford be a major player
none of your ideas address ways you would/could become a major player either, though you mention doing exactly that and changing the market. Just now you've seemingly switched to hoping to be acquired by fidelity, or work for them to help them improve their product?
Your definition of trusted seems to amount to "has tons of money". The little player will need to make more restrictions in order to stay afloat in volatile markets. They'll seeming only be "trustworthy" if they have no restrictions. This is only possible when they have tons of money and risk their own capital in crazy volume+volatility conditions no matter what.
waxen fractal
58 <<< 178, I think u misunderstood that post
unreal quest
No it’s quite low
In comparison to other days
It’s definitely a red flag
I mean yeah it’s much higher than it normally is
But it shows that people are backing away from it
That big of a drop in a single day definitely says something
waxen fractal
Volume was high (in comparison) on the days price went up
Bro u really don’t read huh, “on even less volume than Wednesday”
2 paragraphs above the highlighted sentence
You said “they didn't say it was low in compairson, 58 itself is being considered low”
And literally in the pic they compare the volumes
winged locust
#stonks message
Is the message with the pic
waxen fractal
By comparing Thursday’s to Wednesday’s
winged locust
the highlighted text in the pic says it's too low to cover short positions
which is what ^ was saying
it's not too low to cover them
winged locust
sure. I was was just trying to clarify since y'all were literally arguing about different things
unreal quest
The short ratio is even higher now
Isn’t it like 250 now
It’s still insanely high
It can’t stay that high
waxen fractal
sure. I was was just trying to clarify since y'all were literally arguing about ...
I have a hard time believing him on a judgement when he misinterpreted one of the original premises of the pic
unreal quest
Based on all the sentiments on wsb it’s gonna continue to go up
waxen fractal
Isn’t it like 250 now
That’s a wrong number that’s total % float I believe
unreal quest
It’s still over 100 tho
Will the short interest go down?
It can’t stay this high
And when it happens will it continue to skyrocket
Wsb says it will keep going up
winged locust
wsb says lots of things over their history lol
unreal quest
Everyone is saying hold
unreal quest
wsb says lots of things over their history lol
They’ve been right over the past 9 months
The sentiment is buy and hold
Right now
No ones backing out
winged locust
not every time. folks post their losses there pretty often
unreal quest
Short squeeze hasn’t even happened yet
If everyone’s buying and holding it can only go up
winged locust
they are indeed saying buy and hold right now, sure
unreal quest
It’s a mob mentality
waxen fractal
It’s implied because they did the comparison 2 paragraphs before that’s just reading comprehension at that point lol
unreal quest
Plus deepfuckingvalue not selling will encourage everyone to hold
He’s literally the one who started this
Without him this wouldn’t have happened
Hundreds of thousands of people on there are buying and selling
That’s what all the comments are reflecting
Here’s the other thing
These funds continued to load up on shorts
Even as the price was exploding
Should we do puts?
Or will it keep going up
Do u think it will crash back down to like $10?
Still could make a huge amount of money on puts
Personally I don’t want to do puts
Cuz it’s against my values
We only want it to go up
Based on recent data they’re not exiting
Shorts
quasi heart
not every time. folks post their losses there pretty often
dw we'll see plenty of losses in the coming months 
unreal quest
dw we'll see plenty of losses in the coming months <:KEKW:747188103260799060>
When
From it going up or down
If the mob mentality sticks the number of losses won’t be high
winged locust
all people who bought above a price it's not going to meet again are at a loss.
The price can't literally go up forever. no matter what the max price is, eventually it'll peak.
Also, all people who short(ed) it at a price below whatever it ends up at by their expiry if they haven't closed out their position while it was below that price.
winged locust
all people who bought above a price it's not going to meet again are at a loss.
...
like it's possible it'll go back up if more people keep buying, but there's a finite amount, and you can only buy what people sell. If you get in at a really high price, and it doesn't go higher because people stop wanting to buy as much at that price or literally can't buy at that price, then the price goes down and you have losses
unreal quest
Will it go back down to pennies
winged locust
but it'll go much lower than hundred(s) of dollars
unreal quest
Wsb doesn’t care care about its intrinsic value
winged locust
sure, but they're not gonna buy forever
every fad ends eventually
this has a finite lifespan
unreal quest
The trend is gonna continue
winged locust
for some time sure
unreal quest
People will continue to drive up shorter stocks
The idea of meme stocks isn’t dying
winged locust
but not forever for gme
unreal quest
Now crypto is exploding
They’ll find another stock
There’s other small cap crypto’s
winged locust
of course it isn't dying, but firms probably won't publish their short positions anymore, and will probs be more conservative about them
unreal quest
of course it isn't dying, but firms probably won't publish their short positions...
Aren’t they required by law to publish them
If it’s public they have to share this information with the Sec
Since they’re a public company
As a buyer of the stock you have a right to know this information
It’s just hard to find
winged locust
they won't publish a huge report saying why the stock is overvalued due to its funadamentals
is what I mean by not publish
unreal quest
they won't publish a huge report saying why the stock is overvalued due to its f...
It was dfv who exposed this
He saw this in the filings
winged locust
yeah but this was a common thing. doing that will be less common in the future most likely
unreal quest
They wouldn’t have done this had he not brought it up
Why do u hate it?
Look what it allowed us to do
Over the past few days
The content right now helped me
median cradle
Well yeah it quadrupled in size
median cradle
People who didn't care about stonks before mostly won't care about stonks after
unreal quest
The top posts tho
Like dfv
That’s what people will listen to
The fact that it quadrupled says something
The negative posts get 0 upvotes
lost sorrel
unreal quest
The more positive posts the more ppl will buy in
Dfv posting this encouraged ppl to buy
The entire sub is buy and hold
lost sorrel
I'm sure the wsb OGs love that random people are pumping the stock now.
dense osprey
guys lets start a pump and dump scheme
lost sorrel
A bunch of useful idiots who are definitely going to lose their shirts.
dense osprey
bunch of GENIUS cs majors from TOP universities tell you which are the BEST tech stocks to buy in 2021
winged locust
tbh blockbuster was a good one to get in on lol
fully liquidated teeny prices up 740% on either thursday or wednesday
it started being pumped along with GME but with fewer people
unreal quest
I fully bought into it
lost sorrel
I made $80 on the dogecoin pump and dump 😎
winged locust
unreal quest
Gme?
I hat would happen if someone tried to place a very large order?
Like millions
On blockbuster
winged locust
they couldn't get it all filled
unreal quest
So u need the mob mentality to pump a stock then?
winged locust
they wouldn't get most of their shares and the price would balloon to match
but no one would buy at the new price since you have all the shares
not exactly what I said
unreal quest
What would it take to pump it?
Blockbuster
To turn it into another gme
Why did ppl want gme then?
What traction did it have
It was still a small market cap
Like 200m
At the time
Could this be done to very small stocks?
Would we be able to pump a penny stock
Or does no one want them
Is that happening with gme?
winged locust
there was no misleading info
unreal quest
Ppl advertising to buy
winged locust
it was jsut memes and posting positions
unreal quest
And then selling
winged locust
or like "GME is gonna make a huge comeback with electronic game sales and be the next huge company"
unreal quest
Would it only be illegal if someone with inside info did it?
winged locust
yes that's insider trading
unreal quest
Then how did dfv pump it up then?
winged locust
if they trade based on secrets they know
unreal quest
Everyone was calling him an idiot
What did he convince ppl of?
Well how did he convince ppl to buy it
winged locust
he didn't directly
unreal quest
When everyone was calling him an idiot
winged locust
he posted his positions and why he bought in
winged locust
ya that's up to them
and also it was funny to read
but market value reflects what happens, so if a bunch of people buy into something liquid it'll affect the price
unreal quest
Well no one bought into it until he came along
winged locust
no one bought into it until a year after he firrst came along
dfv had a large position since 2019
unreal quest
What was their reasoning?
Cohen was a large shareholder
Right
When they acquired him
So he wasn’t an insider
But what convinced them to buy gme over any other random company? How would a company with such a small market cap even get on their radar
How did they discover GameStop
When all of the info was buried in Sec filings
winged locust
they kept getting reminded of it by dfv, and a few people bought in with each post. with the shorts, the value went up a little, then more people bought in, this drove value up, etc. etc.
it was momentum after a point
higher value made more people wanna buy in
but random chance and people just gambling hoping dfv was right at first
melvin had the opposite thought, thinking gamestop was way over-valued and will soon go bankrupt
that's why they shorted
they could be entirely right, but in the short term, people that bought in early last week or around then made huge profits on the pump
unreal quest
Would it have happened without Cohen and burry?
Did dfv have any influence on them?
winged locust
I think that was just an analogous situation, not any direct cause of this
winged locust
Did dfv have any influence on them?
there's not necessarily any way to know without them saying that explicitly. idk if that happened
random buyers there at first that saw dfv's position from his posts
unreal quest
So without dfv this wouldn’t have happened
winged locust
a lot laughed. maybe a few bought in
winged locust
So without dfv this wouldn’t have happened
probably not, unless someone else did something similar
gamestop's company value is not intrinsic to what happened
that was a lot more due to bandwagoning and social presure
unreal quest
Well did Cohen buying in have a significant impact on the price
Since it was a pretty large order
winged locust
the sheer volume of buys is probably the main thing responsible for the price
idk how big his order was, but there were a lot of little buys that started the price increase
others bought in as it went up
noting the short interest and posting it also probably got some people to buy
unreal quest
the sheer volume of buys is probably the main thing responsible for the price
Was the volume significantly lower?
Before dfv
winged locust
dfv himself didn't add a giant volume as far as I'm aware (but I'm not the most well informed)
he just had a largish position
initially
unreal quest
It was seven digits a few weeks ago
Now it’s 8 or 9
So yeah volume increased significantly
winged locust
what's total number of GME shares?
unreal quest
Do calls have any direct impact
winged locust
yeah
unreal quest
what's total number of GME shares?
70m
winged locust
any sort of trade has an impact
unreal quest
He bought 50000 contracts
50000 shares
Through contracts and normal purchases
Is 50k/70m enough time have a significant impact?
That’s .07% of the total company
winged locust
so had contracts on only a small amount of the total shares. his contracts alone didn't drive up the price
unreal quest
He owns 50k shares
winged locust
people buying in after seeing his position did
50k shares is a small total amount though
like big compared to any average person
but small compared to total number of shares
winged locust
it didn't over the course of the year he had them
move the share price much
the price change was when people finally bought in
combined with the short position
unreal quest
This summer the prices were at the minima
winged locust
he had a lot of value as the price started to climb
winged locust
but the number of shares he had contracts on likely didn't change the price themselves since he just had them and held them for so long
yeah
and after
they just got a much bigger short position recently
AND
a lot more people bought in
those two together are roughly speaking "why" the price started skyrocketing
unreal quest
The price was near 50 around 2014
And 15 in 2019
It hit $5 in summer 2020
So it was clearly on a decline
winged locust
yeah
unreal quest
Was that the funds shorting it?
winged locust
and eventually it'll probs be a penny stock
that's the fact that it has very low value as a business
shorting it basically increases the price
if anything
they make money whent he price goes down
winged locust
but don't "cause" the price to go down
unreal quest
Why was it declining
winged locust
game stop is brick and mortar retailer
and games are more and more often online
bought on marketplace for consoles and on steam or amazon
etc
winged locust
probably have been shorting it for a long while
perhaps not in quite as large positions
but probs no way to know exactly when they started
winged locust
it definitely happens
unreal quest
140 is outrageous
winged locust
it's not that unsual for a heavily shorted stock
unreal quest
Over 100?
winged locust
it can easily go to 200+
yeah the actual share of stock doesn't know it's been shorted, so the same share can keep getting borrowed and sold at margin
unreal quest
Well did the shorts fule this situation?
Was it cuz it was fundamentally undervalued
Or cuz hedge funds were shorting
winged locust
Well did the shorts fule this situation?
file?
unreal quest
*fuel
winged locust
hedge funds shorted it because they thought it was fundamentally overvalued
dfv bought in because he though it was undervalued and that it would go up
unreal quest
We can agree that it was undervalued at $5
winged locust
and for the meme since he like gme
winged locust
We can agree that it was undervalued at $5
no if they'll be out of business soon. probably yes if they bounce back and get a better online market share
unreal quest
They have no debt and their sales were quite respectable
winged locust
if they go out of business the share price will drop to basically 0
they're closing lots of stores and have been for a while
winged locust
yeah, that's why I said basically
unreal quest
Their revenue has been in the billions
winged locust
like fractions of a cent
winged locust
yeah they're still in business and making money
winged locust
what's their profit?
(revenue - costs of operations (e.g. employes, website maintenance, store rent, etc.))
unreal quest
They lost $18M on $1B in revenue
It’s been +/- $30M
In recent quarters
Either lost or made that much
Actually they’ve had much larger losses
winged locust
anyway short is basically just the bet that revenue, and with it also share price, will go down in the future.
unreal quest
During the summer they lost over $100M
Despite profits in the billions
Something is going on here
Why can’t they make a profit on $6B in revenue
They’ve been in the business for decades
winged locust
stores and employees and other operations cost too much
winged locust
you have to keep paying rent for your stores
unreal quest
And even amazon is making money
winged locust
and your employees if they're working
that doesn't stop unless you close stores and fire folks
unreal quest
Would u say a company is worth anything if it’s making a lot of revenue but operating at a loss?
Is it salvageable in that case?
winged locust
amazon has record number of people buying stuff online
unreal quest
$6B in revenue is not a trivial sum
winged locust
covid has been PERFECT for them
winged locust
$6B in revenue is not a trivial sum
no, but they have tons of stores to pay rent at, and employees to pay wages/salaries, and website hosting costs, and more
unreal quest
With that type of user base they could possibly afford to raise prices
winged locust
if they get a much better online platform and shift to thatr, and it's successful, then yes they can bounce back
if not, then they'll probs go out of business
unreal quest
Do u believe it was undervalued at $5?
winged locust
over time
winged locust
Do u believe it was undervalued at $5?
idk tbh
winged locust
I can speak to general trends and how finance and markets and stuff work in general, but I don't know about particular values if they're actually good or bad
winged locust
so businesses can use debt in previous years as a tax write off for future years when they profit
unreal quest
If they profit
winged locust
so like
-100M one year
and
+100M next year
is net zero and they have no taxes
gamestop could do something similar if they became profitable again
unreal quest
The shorts were a bad decision from the start
There’s no way it was overvalued at $5
winged locust
was it shorted when it was $5?
unreal quest
That was an awful decision on Melvins part
winged locust
may well have been shorted later than that
unreal quest
They definitely shorted around that time
winged locust
What makes you think so?
I'm not sure how one would tell that other than speculation
waxen fractal
Shorts can definitely cause a stock to be undervalued based on the volume of shorts
winged locust
if the price is really low, it's not a greta idea to short since there's no cap to losses and you can only profit at most what you put in minus the borrowing fees
waxen fractal
Basically what’s happening now w gme but reverse
unreal quest
Based on price dynamics
The fact that it was continuing to go down
And what I’ve read on wsb
It’s only implied tho
winged locust
prices are fundamentals mixed with faith. they can assume what they want. I think the price could also have just happened to go down. There's no way to know for sure
current price is all faith in what other people are doing
unreal quest
There are ways to guess the price
winged locust
ya ofc. that's how firms/ or even retail traders trading make money is by modelling and successfully predicting
unreal quest
And be right a good percentage of the time
But it’s not something the average person can do
winged locust
but to say becasue the price went down there must have been a huge short position is misleading
unreal quest
The fundamentals are quite convoluted
Like dfv used public info
Anyone could have done this
It wouldn’t have been easy to
But yeah knowing the power of wsb this can definitely happen again
winged locust
anyone can do most trading
unreal quest
We just need to find more companies that are fundamentally undervalued
Anyone can become rich trading
Most ppl don’t know how
winged locust
the advantage of a large firm is the infrastructure making it easier to model and apply models against historical bases. It's largely with public information or information that's for sale tho
winged locust
only if they all do something
unreal quest
Combined that’s billions of dollars worth of purchasing power
winged locust
I don't think his goal is to lead a mob.
unreal quest
He’s in a position where his opinions matter
And can move the price of a stock
Maybe not
But it is something he can do
winged locust
and I think it'll be short lived, especially if people start losing money
winged locust
which, when the price comes back down for GME, a lot of people will
unreal quest
It went up 400%
After he sent the tweet
Doge went up 1400% in a single day
Yeah
But significantly higher than it was before
It’s now at $.02
It was at a fraction of a cent
Thursday
The price went up 400% after he sent the tweet
Also signal
He tweeted out use signal
And the price of an unrelated company went up
Like 10000%
That was definitely him
He can move markets
If he tweets out any stock name it will move the price significantly
That’s the power of the mob mentality
When you have so many people looking up to one thing
Whether it be elon or wsb
winged locust
the price of an australian GME (not gamestop) went up because people were just jumping on the GME hype train
same with the nottingham Robinhood being negatively reviewed.
mob is powerful, but like it's literally all just short-lived fads and side-effects, no lasting change
unreal quest
The thing is they’ve built up a community of 4 million people
That’s very powerful
Do retail traders even have significant impacts on stocks?
winged locust
yeah but less powerful than funds that can just NLP wsb in addition to everythign else they look at
unreal quest
Has robinhood fueled stocks
Or is it institutions
Why?
It can pick up the general sentiment
I’m sure hedge funds do it
They’ll scan Elon’s tweets and place orders in milliseconds
I’m sure they’ll buy whenever Elon tweets something
winged locust
trying vs succeeding is different. some places can still use it to find signal, if they do enough trades, even 51% accuracy is great for their profits
I'm conflating the two. Sometimes I'm shitty with words
unreal quest
Well don’t they try to pick up the news within seconds
Milliseconds
Before retail buys
So they can get the best price
winged locust
that's hft quants
unreal quest
Okay there’s quant and traditional hedge funds
winged locust
actual human traders cannot execute trades nearly that quickly
unreal quest
Traditional hedge funds are dead right
unreal quest
Yeah they control like 90% of the market
Right
So they can pretty much move the price to whatever they want
The market is worth trillions
Hedge funds are worth billions
winged locust
So they can pretty much move the price to whatever they want
that's different
no individual fund is
winged locust
able to move the market that much without making huge arbitrage opportunities
unreal quest
Hedge funds compete with each other
They even compete within the fund
So Blackrock can move markets
But it’s probably not in a single account
Do most funds do that
It’s much easier to get a large return on a small account
winged locust
blackrock has lots of investments in lots of places. for example they have the largest shares of goldman and several other firms if I recall right
unreal quest
Can a single institution move a stock?
That’s not a penny stock
Like can they move Apple
winged locust
if they did hugely, they open up a huge arbitrage opportunity for others to take advantage of
usually this is a bad idea, so they try to avoid it even if they have funds to do it
unreal quest
Can’t hft pick it up
unreal quest
Who can access dark pools?
How are they even legal
It’s hiding information
From the public
Are it’s competitors easily able to pick up on strategies
With their technology
Is the reason these funds win cuz of their technology
The markets are a zero sum game
When someone wins someone has to lose
There’s gotta be losing hedge funds
winged locust
scale and infrastructure are big parts of its.
People investing based on emotion or hunches are less precise and wrong more often than math
unreal quest
scale and infrastructure are big parts of its.
People investing based on emotion...
Sometimes they’re right
winged locust
and being able to apply that at scale with good testing is a net win usually
sometimes they are
winged locust
for basically any stock, if a lot of people buy relative to available trading volume, the price will go up
if everyone sells shares at once and lots of people have shares, then price will go down
unreal quest
Well are there any single institutions that can move a 2 trillion stock
Do they ever coordinate with each other
winged locust
most of blackrock e.g. is peoples 401ks
unreal quest
Different hedge funds
Don’t different hedge funds hide from each other
Well for for every hedge fund that wins one must lose
winged locust
not exactly, but sort of. Two people can both "win" off an individual trade if they look at it as part of their whole portfolio
unreal quest
The number of shares doesn’t
Unless the company issues new ones
So it grows by ppl raising the price?
Of the shares
Where does the extra money come from?
winged locust
actual company value
winged locust
buyers and sellers
winged locust
when they agree on a price they bid, that's the "value" at that moment of a share
yeah
the price on the ticker is basically like average of last few moments' bids
unreal quest
Well there will be buyers and sellers who set drastically different prices
At the same time
winged locust
right and they won't be able to buy/sell, or they will and the clearing house/broker can profit depending on the direction of the difference in bids
oof
@unreal quest there's a lot of great info out there and you seem really excited to learn about this. Might be worth reading up some books, or checking out some actual resources to get a better idea for how the overall market works and trading strategy than just reading wsb and asking Qs here.
unreal quest
And they’re doing this on purpose
I heard it was cuz the dtcc raised the collateral
From 2 to 100
And clearing houses didn’t have the cash
Why did dtcc raise the collateral requirement then?
Was it necessary
For them to do this?
Are they responsible for this whole shitshow
And could it have been avoided
winged locust
my current understanding is that given the volume on robinhood at the time and general volatility, it was unavoidable for rh to halt and it was basically due to regulations in place, and avoiding losing all their money
unreal quest
Does robinhood use apex anyways?
winged locust
don't they normally raise collatoral requirement in volatile markets?
unreal quest
Apex and dtcc are two different clearing houses
winged locust
whether or not they use apex, they need to settle trades and have collatoral on hand
even if they use their own clearing house
for the clearing house to stay afloat, it needs to either have the cash on hand, or pass on the risk
unreal quest
That’s why fidelity was able to keep it up
They have their own clearing house
And they have the money to handle this
winged locust
they raised margins on all their options too
just didn't lead to a trading halt
they had a smaller volume traded through them though than robinhood
robinhood had the bulk of wsb
and new folks that joined in on the hype
but also yes, fidelity are more established and have more capital on hand likely
unreal quest
Even if they did see the same volume robinhood saw it wouldn’t be a problem for them
Since they would have had the cash to cover it
winged locust
we can't guarantee that's true
unreal quest
Are we sure there was no collusion here
winged locust
it could be, but I don't think we can say that with certainty
no I'm not sure 100%
unreal quest
I’m still not convinced that robinhood didn’t collude with citadel
There are so many holes here
winged locust
but it is believable that it was solely reasonable decisions that led to it
unreal quest
Something just doesn’t seem right
It likely played a part
Will the investigation be able to determine whether it occurred
Or could they hide it easily
winged locust
We'll see I guess. tbh I think they're in the clear for the class actions due to their clearing costs and also that it was in their terms of service
but maybe we'll learn there was collusion
can't know for sure yet
unreal quest
If there was collusion then there’s definitely gonna be penalities
Even if the clearing costs were a reason
I’m sure both played a role
The way that ceo spoke was just so off
If it was truly cuz of clearing costs he would have just said it and be done with it
winged locust
maybe. could have also been stress running around all day trying to get hundreds of millions of dollars of loans to cover costs, and not sure how to most clearly explain what was going on
a lot fell on his shoulders to try to keep things running as smoothly as possible despite unprecedented trading at/above capacity and available costs.
unreal quest
The fact that hundreds of millions of dollars was enough to shut it down is a red flag
A broker needs billions in rainy day funds
To cover things like this
winged locust
no no
thye needed hundreds of millions more
not just to have that amount at all
and a broker can only function at the scale it has
unreal quest
An extra $100M expense shouldn’t be a problem for robinhood
Fidelity could cover that without blinking an eye
unreal quest
That’s why new brokers are a terrible idea
winged locust
fidelity has been around for a long time
winged locust
and when it started it was the only one with no fees
which is what attracted a big user base in combination with tons of ads
but it also has the fewest analysis tools and special kinds of trades offered
so it all comes with a trade off
unreal quest
but it also has the fewest analysis tools and special kinds of trades offered
What types of special trades
winged locust
usability vs overall utility
unreal quest
To set a margin rate that low means they needed the cash to pay for trades
That cash had to come from somewhere
winged locust
you can set up lots of complicated logic for automating kinds of trades and correlated things with some other brokers
unreal quest
Doesn’t that mean that robinhood needed the cash
winged locust
you can set up lots of complicated logic for automating kinds of trades and corr...
not nearly as much with robinhood
unreal quest
To cover the loans
winged locust
no not in general use
only in this rare instance with WAY more flow than usual
mostly on things that are WAY more volatile than usual trades
the combination of both is part of what made this so hard for them to continue allowing buys
unreal quest
Well I guess this was a valuable lesson to the market as a whole
We can’t just make limited trades a new normal
winged locust
this isn't the first time a short squeeze has happened, but it's the first time a tiny broker has had most of the volume of trade run through it
if anything it should tell retail investors to be more careful about what broker they're using if they're just jumping on a hype train that's concentrated in a single small broker
unreal quest
If fidelity can improve their UI they’ll be the new normal
Robinhood is fine for $1000 accounts
People were making so much money on this that they couldn’t handle it
winged locust
there's a psychological switching cost for a lot of users to actually move once they're all set up on robinhood.
fidelity already offers a lot more features and good things than robinhood
the UI is partially hard because there's so much there in comparison. But, it could definitely improve a lot
If you think you're up for the job, you could always apply to fidelity
unreal quest
I’m an entrepreneur mainly
That’s why I’m seriously now considering trying to sell software to fidelity
Many of us came up with the idea that we need a new platform
winged locust
I think you'll have a tough time with that unless you have a seriously polished product. there's a LOT of back end in any app like that and it needs to fully integrate for them
unreal quest
Yeah it’s gonna take some time.
And many conversations with them
But I think we can at least get started now
Now I have the cash to put up for this as a result of my winning trades
winged locust
Is the idea you'd be like consulting with them building the product then?
winged locust
because they do have an app that I'm sure they already employ folks to work on
so like
it's probably not in their interest to just start consulting on a completely different app
as opposed to hiring IC or employees to just work on improving the existing app
minor glen
They really just need more visualizations they have like none
unreal quest
Most of their customers are boomers
Who don’t mind the terrible visualization
So it’s probably not even on their mind
But making a drastic shift is pretty hard for such a company
Which is why acquisitions make sense
In certain cases
And this is a very recent trend
Everyone used robinhood before this
Now there’s gonna be a huge switch
To fidelity
winged locust
acquisitions require you to already have something that's worth their purchase.
I think by the time this is ready, most people will be back on robinhood
like until you've built it and have agreements with fidelity there's no product.
but by the time it's worth using, a lot of people will be back on robinhood. This product, unless it is fidelity will have the same issues as robinhood but more since it's smaller
minor glen
Fidelity and Webull getting a lot of new customers
winged locust
if you actually want to make a new UI for fideltity, your best bet is just working for them. They're already growing their userbase because of this
celest rain
i have a feeling fidelity's stack is the biggest monolithic cluster fuck ever
unreal quest
Do u guys think robinhood is ever coming back?
celest rain
some of the menus in their sign up pages don't even scale properly, i have a 1440p monitor and it's just like, it literally stays the same size
and there's a ton of white space
minor glen
Their interview process told you right away they don’t focus that much on tech 🤣
winged locust
almost definitely I'd bet
celest rain
lmao yeah but you'd think they'd at least try to modernize their UI from fucking 1998
winged locust
i have a feeling fidelity's stack is the biggest monolithic cluster fuck ever
that wouldn't surprise me
unreal quest
The integration can be done in about a year
Maybe even less
I have the cash to hire the developers now
celest rain
i interviewed for them and tried to ask the guy like "oh what kinda microservices do you guys use" and he just dodged the question
lethal harness
mans is ballin 👀
minor glen
I have the cash to hire the developers now
This is biggest issue they pay like 65k in not so low cost areas
unreal quest
This is biggest issue they pay like 65k in not so low cost areas
Fidelity?
minor glen
Yeah
unreal quest
I can pay tech salaries
unreal quest
I will pay a competitive salary
Then it gets acquired and everyone gets a nice chunk of the pie
winged locust
Then it gets acquired and everyone gets a nice chunk of the pie
if it gets acquired Their salaries might tell you how much they value this atm
unreal quest
Why doesn’t fidelity focus on tech?
But even anything they said a week ago isn’t relevant anymore
Now that they’re gonna see a drastic uptick in the number of users
I will try to get a call with them
To discuss this
celest rain
Why doesn’t fidelity focus on tech?
their core user base still won't be this new influx of users from robinhood
unreal quest
And see if there’s any interest
celest rain
it's boomers who have their life savings invested in their IRA accounts
winged locust
it's not how they make most of their money probably. also hot take tech salaries are super inflated imo,and they just aren't contributing to that as much as big N
celest rain
like i have a feeling, even if fidelty comes out and updates their UI (which i doubt cus they'd probably have to rewrite their whole ass monolithic stack), they would probably leave the legacy UI in for their boomer users
unreal quest
their core user base still won't be this new influx of users from robinhood
If most ppl are leaving robinhood, where will they go now?
unreal quest
like i have a feeling, even if fidelty comes out and updates their UI (which i d...
Yeah they can have both
celest rain
i mean there's more than just fidelity
i'm just saying they won't suddenly replace
or make up 50% of fidelity's userbase now
there's plenty of boomers who have been trading on it way way way before the iphone even existed
minor glen
Webull getting a fair share imo from exodus as well
celest rain
they make up a huge percentage
unreal quest
They’re probably gonna see millions of new users
winged locust
plus most retail investors have a lot less money than boomer 401k and investment accoutns that have compounded for years
winged locust
They’re probably gonna see millions of new users
this is potential but not a guarantee. it's still a risk for them if they sink money into it
could be great for them and you and they both win big
so go for it if you want
but like it's not a guarantee for them so it's very possible they say no
unreal quest
Yeah I’ll see what they say
I just wanna get a feel first
Before making any assumptions
winged locust
also, it'll help to understand their current features and what's done if you had a strong foundation in the market''s inner workings and maybe some general trading strategies
it's worth reading a book or watching a course or something
winged locust
or a few
winged locust
lmk if you want some recs on either video series or some books
unreal quest
just jumped on the hype train and won
winged locust
yeah and congrats for that
unreal quest
lmk if you want some recs on either video series or some books
yeah would appreciate it
any recommendations?
winged locust
Can I dm you some?
unreal quest
Can I dm you some?
Yeah thanks
If Elon tweets buy GameStop the price will surge
We’re gonna start our own market
I seriously believe that democratized finance is the future
I might be able to get to 1b
With puts
mighty ridge
unreal quest
Yeah
unreal quest
Just need to 5x my investment
unreal quest
alex are u like trading with 100k or what
I mentioned it here
Far up in the chat possibly
Sure someone could explain
lethal harness
theres too much to read lmao
median cradle
He has almost 200m
median cradle
His kids' kids are set for life lol
unreal quest
He has almost 200m
More than that now
lethal harness
wait does that shit not get taxed
unreal quest
I won’t get taxed
lethal harness
how dat work
lethal harness
tax evasion 
unreal quest
And I’m reaching out to charities to see what I can do
It’s not tax evasion
It’s done all the time
median cradle
More than that now
What other plays?
lethal harness
200m, how much did u start with holy
unreal quest
Business losses are legitimate tax deductions
median cradle
Shares? Mid 200s?
unreal quest
Yeah
median cradle
So what're you up to now
unreal quest
210
I bought gme $300 calls yesterday
When it was in the 200s
Now it’s 325
If it stays above $325 it’s a win
median cradle
Nice! I would have to sell shares to buy any calls at its current price, or deposit more but it wouldn't necessarily be there in time
unreal quest
$100 calls
median cradle
Nah GME is built different
unreal quest
At like 10 cents or whatever
Gme isn’t hard to predict
Other than the robinhood shitshow
Had the robinhood shitshow not happened it could continue to rocket
Everyone is saying hold on
Mob mentality
It hit a low of like $120 on Thursday
Now it’s back above $300
$132 at 11:30am on Friday
I sold before hours that day
After the price had declined from like $500 to $430
A 15% loss was enough to make me want to sell
Really thought we weren’t going to go beyond $500
And now I feel really bad about what I did
lethal harness
mans went from 200k -> 200m what a legend
unreal quest
mans went from 200k -> 200m what a legend
Dfv is a bigger legend
He did like the same thing
But he risked everything he had
quasi heart
Gme isn’t hard to predict
haven't you been trading for like a week
unreal quest
haven't you been trading for like a week
Yeah
Had he sold is $12 calls on Friday
And bought $100 calls
He may have been a billionaire
lethal harness
he got diamond hands
unreal quest
He didn’t blink an eye when it hit its low point
lethal harness
i wish i had the funds for calls lmao
unreal quest
Friday was a Golden time to buy
dreamy tendon
lol $100 calls a week ago for 10c
unreal quest
When $100 calls were worth pennies
lethal harness
im weak
unreal quest
lol $100 calls a week ago for 10c
10-20 cents
lethal harness
thats what like 100 bucks for a option
unreal quest
Something like that
Options prices take into account volatility
Now they’re obviously much higher
When the price was still in the double digits
for historical options prices look at this site
1/22
Sold them on the 28th
They were gonna expire anyways
It’s next day
hollow ridge
unreal quest
It was an ah trade
We’re gonna keep wsb up
We won’t let it die
How are things going for you?
Will u be allowed to trade when u start work?
Or do they have restrictions
Where r u working btw?
oh, not citadel
idk, its just that im feeling incredible anger towards citadel
They own almost a percent of it
The whole worlds view of hedge funds
Bought and sold ah
Yeah
I bought some more yesterday
Tho
Cuz I still have a lot of faith in gme
The short interest is still well over 100
I still don’t have direct access to the money. I can partially control the trades but the account is still my parents
The goal is to get it to $1000
And this will require the collective effort of wsb
visual raptorBOT
@unborn whale has just slid into the community.
paper pollen
Apex and dtcc are two different clearing houses
DTCC is the clearing house for equities, apex and others are just like a front end
paper pollen
Why did dtcc raise the collateral requirement then?
theres literally a formula that they use to calculate it
unreal quest
DTCC is _the_ clearing house for equities, apex and others are just like a front...
How come they need two layers of clearing houses?
What’s the point of apex then
What do they do
visual raptorBOT
FREEZE! @marsh star has entered the room.
