Hey everyone, had a question that might

[shy quarry]

Hey! I have the UXE skill set, and have worked with it for over a decade.

I’m a little surprised to hear this, because I’ve mostly observed nobody wants designer-coders all year long—is this a very very recent shift, like in the past few weeks?

What kind of companies have you seen looking for this? Can you tell what size they are, for example?

At any rate: I think building a component library in Storybook can be a good start. React is the defacto standard right now (as much as React has its problems).

If you want to really stand out, it would help to learn React + Web Components. Companies that undergo mergers have a tendency to need a design system that can support both React and Angular, or React and Svelte, or React and Vue, etc. But because Web Components are a standard, they support interop between the different UI libraries in use today.

[next wadi]

Thanks for the tip will definitely work on that library project

@shy quarry might wanna go apply for that meta one lol you sound like you got relevant skills

[shy quarry]

Well… what I’m reminding myself is:

In the current hiring zeitgeist, they really are looking for someone who has recent on-the-job experience on the thing they’re hiring for.

While I do have the relevant skills, my last job did not involve working with React, so I will consistently be passed over for someone whose last job did involve working with React—even if I have an internal referral from someone who’s worked with me previously.

I’m in a position where I’m pretty confident the only way to make any money with the skill set I have is to start my own business and network hard to connect personally with clients in the early stage startup space.

That said… I did speak with a manager of a team of UXEs from Microsoft recently, and while he may be biased, he firmly believes UXEs are the future.

We really need someone who understands what happens to design work inside the platform we design for. Engineering managers aren’t incentivized to hire for that, so design teams have to eat the budget for about 1.25 designer roles and hire a UXE to compensate for this.

So, you may or may not be able to land a UXE role right now, but if you start learning the skill set, it may play to your benefit in a year or two.

[next wadi]

I feel you, I appreciate you sharing your experience/insight. Personally I believe there might be a chance to stand out in building like open source meta design tools.
I’ve worked as a designer for 5 years at this point and I’ve become somewhat proficient at writing little backend tools to simplify my design process.

So I have the experience and I hope the engineer part can be inferred from the tools I build

Not trying to get rich or like a crazy job right now per se but I’ve been working on learning the skills for about a year now and I feel like I need to put all of it together into something to stand out bc i’m not getting hits as it is either lol. Plus I genuinely feel like there’s a missed opportunity in promoting and building design tools for designers by designers (v meta) since building/coding keeps becoming more accessible

[shy quarry]

I would say, for now, focus on telling a more compelling story about the work you did in your last role.

Hiring managers are super scared of making a bad hire. So they’re telling each other that the best way to avoid a bad hire is to hire someone who did the exact same job they’re hiring for in the candidate’s last role.

Specifically: Hire someone who has done the same kind of job, for a company similar to yours.

It’s kind of always been like this, but it’s like super super more like this now, and I think (hope) this is temporary.

So, if you were to adapt your pitch to a manager that’s been listening to that advice, what kind of role / company would you target?

[shy quarry]

Coincidentally, I just stumbled over a podcast that supposedly talks about how to upskill into Design Engineering! https://www.dive.club/deep-dives/mariana-castilho

[thorny ember]

openAI and whatever you posted are huge orgs tho. imho seems like majority of orgs (SMEs esp which prob are bulk of jobs even available in terms of postings..) dont have the bandwidth / resources for UXEs

[shy quarry]

Right, it’s mostly bigger companies that hire UXEs. It’s a pretty niche role. People I’ve spoken with at SMEs are convinced UXEs aren’t a thing. One HM even told me he thought that job title was a scam when he saw it on my resume.

So. That’s one risk of pursing UXE.

I think a Seed Stage or Series A startup might benefit from a UXE, but most of them don’t know the job title exists either.

It’s like they want a designer who can code, but aren’t aware there’s a job title they can advertise that will help them find that person.

Hypothetically, if you have the right skill set, and meet all the right people, you might get an in that way.

[thorny ember]

hmm true..! thats another thing for me to take note personally too (basically ideating and thinking about what i want in the long term)… :3 that i could also consider early stage startups and prob just need to market myself even if the role isnt “open” / “thought of as needed” there

[next wadi]

Yeah fair enough

[next wadi]

Yeah it’s a huge tradeoff and i totally see your point with the hiring practices. I supposed I want to really take the time to find the right opportunity even if it’ll take a while. Right now I work as a designer and I am just trying to find a job that would let me code!

I guess my pitch would focus on the value I can provide both designing and coding, and how it gives me the perspective to connect design/engineering teams and the skills to stream line projects involving both and develop in house tools focused on the reproducing/optimizing design workflow that can carry across projects.

It’s a very niche argument to be fair, but hopefully it resonates with at least someone

[shy quarry]

My dad used to work as an engineering manager.

What I would encourage you to consider is, if you’re working in a design job now, do some research on code skills you can learn on your own and then begin bringing to work after you complete a side project or two.

Companies work really hard to avoid laying for training (I think they’re wrong, but that’s how they work for now), but if you’re willing to upskill on your own time, they can sometimes see that as a value add.

The tricky thing is, you may encounter engineers who think you should stay in your own lane, so you may need to look for allies who will support you and provide some pushback, in case you learning about code threatens and fragile egos.

I think if you’re unemployed (like I am) I would focus on side projects that cater to design. I have been hearing a lot about demand for designers with research chops, so if (also like me) you haven’t done much user research, then a design project with research is where I’d be doing some work.

At least, for now. While hiring managers are thinking in this particular way.

[next wadi]

yes i hear you , i mostly code backend stuff in Go and Python, and ocassionally FE in Svelte but I def know enough react and js to figure out TS. I'm working on projects at the moment... that's why i initially wrote into the thread to ask if certain projects were looked at more favorably than others

i code at my job occassionally like i've made plugins in php for our WP site and have used js/css/html throughout my job. just that my company preferred WYSIWYG tools to build our site on wordpress so there's not a ton of room for me to bring the skills i've learned into my job. that's why im trying to branch off bc it's not getting me anywhere but still need it to pay the bills

[thorny ember]

for ux engr def backend dont play a part.

i think i might try to code my own frontend component library. lolz

cos my curr role and prev job always alr had someone who did that already. so maybe that can be good prsctice for me

i rmbr seeing ppl mentioning abt coding for figma plugins before too.. HM.

[shy quarry]

I totally misread your background. My bad! I think it’s awesome that you’ve worked in Go and Python, but recognize you want to work more directly on the frontend, and contribute to design!