Idea to fix space combat

[native fossil]

💡 What is motivating this suggestion?
Lack of proper space combat, when I win a spaceship 1v1 the enemy just pods over to my ship full HP or vice versa.

💡 What is your proposal?
Fix ship combat by making getting disabled more brutal on the player so they're forced to either pod out early into a fight or take large amounts of damage. Also damage further players if they pod specifically into the ship that disabled them.

💡 Exactly and specifically, what should be changed and how?
Take 50% HP damage upon your ship being disabled ||(it just blew up in outer space, the fact you can even walk away is crazy)|| Get your HP limited by 10%-12.5% when disabled, and lose an extra 10%-12.5% when boarding the ship that disabled you. This would make it extremely risky to board the people that just bested you in ship combat leaving you with half HP and between 20-25% of your HP whited out so you'd have a max of 75-80 HP if you don't have any white heals.

[keen jay]

Just make it so if your ship gets to 0hp your pods don't work. Maybe the fire/smoke slowly damages the player. So then they are forced to pod out earlier in the fight? Make it so if your ship is destroyed you have to pay to have it repaired else next time you use it it spawns in with minimal HP.

[fiery gust]

this post is just getting bombarded with 👎

[analog shell]

It already is really risky to board a ship that disabled you. After disabling any damage you do also does do damage to their gear and the player. You can very quickly destroy some gear just by volleying a ship. Its quick af with something like missile pods, the torps are too slow for gear but do high damage per shot. This wouldnt really make space combat more engaging for anyone aside for the person who gets first shot. Especially not solos. As is, they cant repair ships. Groups can. Theres a good bit holding space combat back, but I really dont think making it more punishing to be shot at is the play. As is, if you disable a ship, you can damage the occupants at around 5~8% damage (someone correct me if im off and link the patch notes please) of the ships weapon per shot to a disabled ship. Breaching also does ~15-40% damage depending on the hull integrity of the ship youre breaching (again, someone with the actual numbers link them if you got them). Which does easily put you in one shot territory for a lot of interactions that dont just include headshots. You as the inhabitant of the ship that did win also get a sound que and the knowledge of numbers. You get to play that interaction with a bit more confidence in what is happening than someone who could be getting camped by someone in any set of stairs, engine, da shred on the bed, or whatever other angle you or your friends tend to hold.

[pearl forum]

you might as well just auto kill them if it hits 0 then, else could get in a situation where guy is onboard a disabled ship and cant leave with 0 options other than quit match, also if you light em up and believe you killed them, you can't just go board them as is else then you'd be stuck with no way out

make space combat more punishing would just make people avoid it more imo

[native fossil]

Not true I won a 1v1 spaceship fight yesterday and the guy podded over to mine, I sprayed him a bunch, he podded over to his, I sprayed his ship with about 10 shots, he podded back to mine, then I killed him. He took first shots in his ship and landed 3 initial shots. We were both rust buckets.

[analog shell]

Are you saying a dude boarded you and podded out and you didnt kill him?

[native fossil]

I was solo, I sprayed him then he sprinted to the pods, I hopped in my turret and was able to hit his pod once then he breached back into his then I sprayed his ship about 10 times before he podded out again and reboarded me.

90% of the time if I disable a ship they're coming to board me, and they're generally on full HP when they do. I know that because when it happens to me and I board someone it takes ONE bandage to get back to full HP. If a ship named "The Rustbucket" explodes in space I think you should take a little more damage than one bandage, especially when you have time to heal right after you pod into a ship.

[pearl forum]

to my knowledge they only take extra dmg when boarding if someone is piloting the ship when they board and the breach dmg is mitigated based on ship health, if no one is piloting when they breach though then yeah they take barely anything

[pearl forum]

personally would like it if you could still hear what's going on inside the ship while on pilot controls, i norm get off before getting boarded so i can hear where they are breaching from

[magic heron]

I'm not sure why this is getting so heavily downvoted

The current problem with ship combat is that it always boils down to a boarding scenario / one party podding and flying off here's why;

Breaching

• The Damage you take upon boarding a non-disabled ship is completely mitigated through the use of 1 SMA and an Aspirin that can be popped simultaneously directly upon entry (You're often full health by the time the smoke clears).

• Due to the ship expansion there's significantly less risk of being instantly pressured when breaching.

• This is why you have people that instantly breach at the start of raids

Pod Flying

• Pods are tiny and near impossible to take out due to their extremely small hitbox and the lack of any rapid firing capabilities of the ship weapons currently available.

• Secondary small arms fire option for turrets would mitigate this

Damage taken while disabled under fire

• Can be completely mitigated by popping bandages / aspirin on your way to the drop pods

[pearl forum]

if you breach a solo who's flying he wont even know where you are on the ship

there really should be a machine gun turret that does small dmg to ships but is way better for pod defense

right now flak cannons are your only pod defense

[magic heron]

I have the perfect clip of why this is a problem how it currently is, I'll edit it and post it because it directly correlates to this post

[native fossil]

thank you.

[magic heron]

I lost the ship fight here

Able to comfortable mitigate any damage on my way to drop pods

Got hit on fluke once trying to breach
(This is an extreme rarity, though I'm still not dead)

Board them and within a few seconds I'm at max hp
(Even though my pod got hit, didn't take any extra hp damage because of it)

Rest is just straight robbery, there's no way I should've been afforded being able to do this after straight up losing a ship fight

https://youtu.be/o6rA5fS_pjA

Video uploaded, perfectly shows why ship combat is always a 50/50 on who wins even after a ship is disabled

I agree there needs to be a higher penalty to losing your ship fight

I'm a solo here against a duo in a better ship and I'm able to comfortably get disabled, board, kill them and steal their ship

[main shore]

they could have quite easily gunned you down in your pod if they were paying attention but I do agree the hit boxes for pods are a bit too small nowadays

[magic heron]

I cut out the 2 minutes where I was able to easily duke out their shots

I'll clip that and post it aswell

[main shore]

yeah, doing serpentine movements does mitigate a lot of risk, I dunno, I'm personally not too fussed if I get breached as I welcome a challenge

[magic heron]

This is my exact point as to why this shouldn't be downvoted, you're almost impossible to hit while in a pod

You get disabled and pod out, now you're in full control of the situation

[main shore]

maybe reword the suggestion and post it?

[magic heron]

Possibly, I'd rather discuss it here though, I'd definitely welcome some kind of balancing in this scenario

A secondary small arms fire for turrets would be great for pod defence

All ship weaponry right now is fully tailored towards ships, not pods

Make the pods bigger and give the turrets a secondary small arms fire that's a bit more rapid

[pearl forum]

would love if any ship had 2 turrets on it that anyone, even a solo could swap between

[magic heron]

Podding should be an inherently dangerous manoeuvre, right now it isn't, just means you can't get into certain pois

[pearl forum]

it's only dangerous if you pod out next to the baron

[main shore]

if we could get better depth perception on pods then I would imagine players having an easier time shooting them down, it's the same size and bright after burn from across the map up until they're right next to you, by that point you're likely already being breached

[pearl forum]

AI cheat with auto tracking, players dont get auto tracking guns

[magic heron]

It's the bright as light aswell that's the issue, it's like trying to shoot the centre of a flare, in space

[main shore]

if the after burn scaled in size depending on distance, then it would help

[magic heron]

Definitely

[pearl forum]

still could use more, well any, machine gun turrets or something to help deal with pods

[magic heron]

Anything would be better that makes you think twice before, "ship disabled, time to board"

[main shore]

I wish more people thought that in EU, I rarely get breached at all now and when I do, it's timmies

[magic heron]

I for one always go hyper-aggressive when I get disabled, I've got no reason not to

It's why timmies complain they get breached off-rip at the start of the raid

because some vet with a bag full of meds can mitigate all the downside with a couple clicks of their middle mouse

[main shore]

understandably fair if they're using a rust bucket but the breacher scout seems to be the only effective way of shooting pods

but even that is getting harder with the small hit boxes

[magic heron]

Even then the shot they got on me was a complete fluke, nevermind the fact that I'm in a pod and tanked an entire flak round that should've obliterated me out of the sky

If I died to that shot I feel that would've been 100% fair

[main shore]

should have seen the days where the flak turret was 8 shots and had longer range

[magic heron]

I read quite a fair amount of reviews from new players and their experience with instant breaching is a problem that causes them to drop the game

There definitely needs to be some kind of mitigation against it, It needs to be far riskier

[main shore]

I wouldn't see it helping space gameplay all that much if you made the disabled ship bombardment more of a hazard

[pearl forum]

could just make it auto kill you if you didn't do any dmg/didnt use a breacher pod

[magic heron]

I'd start with the pods, as they're the main issue

[main shore]

it'd just need slightly larger hitboxes

[pearl forum]

considering it needs to fit inside the salvage area, i dont see them making it big enough

[magic heron]

and the breaching penalty being mitigated with a couple mouse clicks
Now the ships are larger you're pretty much at a 0% risk unless you're breaching a 4 man that's covering breach points

[pearl forum]

unless blowing it up will make it small enough

[main shore]

I'm talking about hitboxes, the hidden box that calculates whether you were hit or not

[magic heron]

You can scale both the model and hitbox depending on where it is respectively

[pearl forum]

you'll have people rage that they died when the shot never hit them

[magic heron]

Just scale up the pod in space

right now it's way too small

[pearl forum]

i just feel they can't make it big enough without it being silly big

[magic heron]

They can and they should tbh

[main shore]

it's not too bad when you can catch the pod breaching right at you, I'm sure you noticed in your clip that it bounces you off course and fucks up the momentum

[magic heron]

Yeah but that's also a fluke

And I should've died to that

I took a hit with no correlational penalty once I breached either

[main shore]

just my experience, having used the breacher scout more than others, it's more about lining up your target to make it easier to shoot and when the pod is travelling in a straight line, it's the easiest way of shooting them, that and right up close

[magic heron]

How many times have you blown a pod out of the sky?

I'd done it twice in the entire 600 hours game time I have

[main shore]

with the breacher scout, urmmmmm 100 something this wipe?

[magic heron]

I'm calling doubt on 100 pod kills, do you have a clip or something?

[main shore]

that is not to say the breacher scout isn't booty with the limited range, I've played long enough to know how to position myself and take people by surprise

[pearl forum]

to be fair, do you expect them to have a montage of every kill?

[magic heron]

No but at least one, If I was getting that many pod kills I'd 100% be clipping it

[pearl forum]

just sucks that you basically need to rely on only ships with flak cannons

[vale ether]

I clip nearly every 80% of my pvp encounters, ship and POI

[magic heron]

That's an insane amount of pod kills

[vale ether]

Medal comes in clutch with that

[main shore]

as previously mentioned, it's easier shooting pods when they're up close, if you position yourself in a location where you know someone is going boost towards and the amount of distance it will cover, you're primed for gunning them down

i.e. nearest extraction gate by a POI

[pearl forum]

real question is how to deal with pods if you dont have a flak cannon

[magic heron]

Again that requires you being an extremely good turret operator and utilising a flak cannon

doesn't help rocket pods / other slow rof weaponry

[vale ether]

If its not a flak or anything other than rustbucket, unless they miss the breach numerous amounts of times then its pointless

[main shore]

rocket artillery isn't too bad, torpedo will one shot them but it's very situational for getting the perfect shot with it

[magic heron]

I think for the 90% of the playerbase that aren't cracked with a turret, chances of your pod getting blown out the sky is extremely low

[main shore]

definitely, I still struggle like any other player when the pod serpentines

[magic heron]

I've been breached and breached plenty of times, being shot out of the sky is never a real concern I have

[pearl forum]

maybe say instead of a small secondary that is machine gun fire or such, what if you had a way to disable enemy pod boosts?

[magic heron]

Unless I'm flying directly into an AI turret

[vale ether]

Feel that

[magic heron]

If your ship is full hp, being breached should put the breacher at a significant disadvantage,
not something that can be completely mitigated in a couple mouse clicks

Breaching should be a luxury you're afforded after disabling the enemy

[main shore]

it technically does if someone is piloting it

[magic heron]

They were piloting when I breached

2 mouse clicks and I'm full, deep in their ship f***ing shit up

[main shore]

possibly jumped off when they saw you breach to listen for where you entered

[vale ether]

they should reduce the damage done to your gear when your ship is disabled, by the time i've healed up and gotten to a pod, my durability on my 12helm is already half gone

Even when its a rust bucket shooting you

[pearl forum]

sucks that a solo though can't hear where people breached if they wanna still be piloting for that extra dmg

[magic heron]

Yeah but it still blocks the full armor rating until fully broken, enough to take a decent fight on their ship

[vale ether]

Torpedo or rocket is without saying reasonable, but the rustbucket shouldn't do that much armor damage

[main shore]

if you're solo, you're not getting to them before they heal so it doesn't make much difference

[pearl forum]

how about this idea, what if breaching a ship that isn't disabled does aton of durability damage, basically breaking most armors and such if not blast protected?

[vale ether]

If I see a pod flying towards me, I'm hopping off helm straight away, I'm not risking shooting the pod

[main shore]

hmm, might be time to go shoot some pods

[magic heron]

Exactly this, because you know without a doubt you're not stopping that breach at all

It's coming at you and there f all you can do about it 90% of the time

Disable a ship, get breached

Ship disabled, breach them

90% of the time ends in an fps ship fight

[vale ether]

Anyway, wheres my Model SHINI! Think i've forgotten!!?!

[main shore]

geunine advice, if you see the pod boosting towards you, line yourself up until it looks like the pod is coming at you head on, no easier time shooting than that

you should at least get one hit, good luck with the next

[magic heron]

I'm working on more game models to make a decent suggest page for them

[vale ether]

and then my model?

[magic heron]

Yeah that's the problem, and when it's a timmie running the turret, then they're 100% getting breached whether they like it or not

I 100% see where this suggestion is coming from and it's something that could definitely be addressed in a way that mitigates the instant breaching that occurs

This was a pretty big part of the player count drop aswell, there was a number of clans that would 3 - 4 man breach people at the start of raids

That's not engaging gameplay, to gear up - que - get breached within a couple minutes by a stacked level 12 wearing mac 10 abusing 4 man dumpstering you

[vale ether]

fun times ;w;

[main shore]

let me know if you want to play sometime and I'll show you the ways

[magic heron]

I know it's possible, it's just not possible for most people, especially not new players that are suffering from instant breaches

it's a mechanic that has no real downside / significant risk currently

[pearl forum]

what if breaching broke your armor fully if the ship isnt disabled?

[magic heron]

Probably a bit overkill, but something like that would definitely increase the risk involved

Would completely mitigate instant breaching with level 12 armour

forces you to win the ship fight

[pearl forum]

i dont mean to actually do that, but as a starting idea can start with that and scale it down

[magic heron]

Would definitely help, it's something that would need to be tested, it would instantly stop the start of raid breaching though
Forcing you to actually win a ship fight

[pearl forum]

could make it so it wouldnt break blast defense, and it can scale with dmg dealt to a ship so you dont have to win

but if you're in just any armor and dont do any dmg, then have it be destroyed in that scenario, do afew shots to a ship and then breach? heavy dmg but still good to go

[magic heron]

I think you should have to 100% disable a ship first
I'd fully be onboard with armour destruction on ship breach if it's not disabled

It forces you to think twice before breaching