Nerf headshots

[fresh roost]

The title says its all. I know, I know; people have various opinions about this. But for people like me with no hands, this sucks. You can't win against god tier players. And that's okay, as long as I potentially stand a chance. But I don't even stand a chance. I just get dogged on.

Some players might just be like, "Oh just get good" yes, maybe I should. But certain guns(if you don't have the highest end of helmet level) completely mitigate helmet usage. Even past that, being dropped down to 5 hp with the current healing setting mitigates any potential fight half the time unless you're carrying LFA's.

Honestly, for the casual player, and for the older player with no hands, it just isn't fun. It isn't enjoyable. I'd like to see headshot damage multiplier changed, because to be fair, I stand absolutely no chance against players like Winkidd. If the headshot multiplier isn't as heavy, I might be able to do some damage against Winkidd before I die.

[idle oyster]

headshots do this irl tbh

[hallow pike]

Maybe just change it from 3.25 to 3.0?

[rich prism]

or literally just tweak it little by little. it doesnt need to be a round multiplier. 2.23 - > 3.2 -> 3.19 -> etc. I want to be able to host custom loacla games so I can tweak the multipliers n shit.

[arctic crystal]

Ok gonna give my 100% unneeded and likely lil to long winded view on headshots within the game. Short TLDR is that both sides are fundamentally right, headshots should hurt like hell and be decisive factors in winning fights but also that headshots are way to damn strong in most cases, especially against newer players who have zero counter measures. Although I do overall push that helms should be reworked into making headshots weaker I still really think and agree with that they should be fighting changing shoots in terms of damage I want yalls input on ideas/values please.

Full idea and view
Headshots are a mechanic that won't be fixed by simply tweaking the damage and moving the scale on the damage that a headshot will do or the damage of weapons. No one wants this realistically and headshots should have that UMPH to turn and dominating in a gun fight. I think the answer to this problem is somewhat similar to how meds have been reworked recently and that's to overhaul the thing protectin your noggin, helmets are very odd put simply. Most of them have almost zero impact in saving your life with only the absolute best helmets in the entire game saving you from high end guns, a single time. This brings up my biggest question with helmets, why the hell do they need so much durability? A single shoot to the head is almost certain to kill and I've literally never seen a person use the full durability on something like a wielding mask, 60 durability, SIXTY HEADSHOTS before the thing breaks. This leads to my idea that helmets block damage by percentages unlike body armor which is a flat value, with the more damage that is blocked equates to more durability lost on a helmet. Gonna given an example here using a ten armor helm and then a 5 and two different weapons, a M1941 Johnson which does 42 base damage and a good ol Luger P08 which deals 23 per shoot.

Baseline percentage reduction for helmets is 4% per armor so 10 armor means 40% damage reduction on headshots and would get calcuted as 3.25(Weapon damage * 1-perctnage reduction) with this current version a M19 deals 104 damage to 10 armor headshots, a one tap. With the 4% reduction it would deal 81 damage (all numbers round down when calculated even if closer to next number, was 81.9). For the lugger this is where things need to be talked bout more n revised, current system it deals 42 a headshot to 10 armor new system is 44. Now for the part I'd personally really wanted to talk bout, lower armor helms and their impacts. a 5 armor helm like a leather cap would take 120 damage current system and 109 with 4% reduction per armor. Against a lugger this is 58 damage current and 59 proposed. Lastly (god this is a long post) the more damage blocked by a shot the more durability you lose for example lets look at the 10 armor again versus the M10 Johnson it reduced the damage from an unblocked 136 to 81.9, for every 10 points of damage a helmet blocks it loses one durability. This would give meaning to a helmets durability as currently having one break is near impossible, of course this would require tweaking durability on helmets as well but would give another perspective and idea on head protection beyond just big numbers=better as you may want something that gives less armor overall but has an insanely high durability like the wielding mask or Heavy Stahlhelm.

Overall this suggestion is not very well formalized or finalized lots of things still need to be talked about or changed I don't want to just suggest making machine guns an insane meta weapon with how I suggested helmets and damage get reworked and I WANT yall to yell at me callin me dumb with your input. I think we need to move from talkin bout nerfin a guns damage or tweakin damage mults if at all, to how the system should be changed because rn it just doesn't feel fun getting one tapped by most things where helms feel both important to do anything while seemingly doing nothing at all. Forgot by and large to address how early players struggle more with one taps than vetted players so guess ill do it rq here at the end. New players by and large only have 10 or weaker helms, ever. these come mostly from a lucky run or contracts otherwise we are restricted to 7 armor mostly due to crafts and other requirements and 7 armor helms just don't cut it against most guns in a game without any form of balanced matchmaking as such getting pitted against a Johnson, SVU, Stoner, or STG (IE big brrr's) isn't that uncommon and as such getting absolutely punked by said guns. Just because getting a high tier helm that can actually save you is so hard and where your left having to debate bringing it to barely save yourself from said guns and as such risk losing the helm or leaving it for later when you got what ya deem as better gear where each raid it isn't ran is then a risk of dying to le big guns.

And welcome to my unneed opinion by me I do want yall to flame me for this as I mentioned as I think helms aren't in a good spot with how they work rn but headshots should still hurt like a bit- biscuit with a little less one tapping

If anyone thinks this isn't the worst idea they've read I may repost it into its own unique suggestion thread

[bitter prawn]

They tried that already. It was originally 3.5 at the early access launch, then they tried it at 3.0 for a little while and now it's in the middle at 3.25.

Since the EA launch they've added better helmets, helmets used to cap at 10 so the 3.5 x damage on headshots was even more dangerous for players than the current setup can be. Now we also have tier 11, 12, and 13 helmets as well so it's pretty hard to be killed in one shot if you have good gear and keep your health topped up.

[hallow pike]

Completely forgot it already was once 3.0. Only remembered the 3.5.

[rich prism]

This man has the right idea. Don't change the multiplier, don't change the damage output, just change how readily and how well we can deal with those very important values by buffing helmets.

[arctic crystal]

I wouldn't even call it a pure buff it would make helms stronger yes but they could also actually break especially in gun fights against more powerful guns losing 5-6 durability on a 30 durability helm when fighting a Johnson makes it a massive threat as a prolonged fight means possibly losing 100% of your head protection even if the shots you do take are far weaker than they are rn

Really do want Macdallan's view on this as he's one of the more vetted players in the community and is also quite active within suggestions

[rich prism]

I totally neglected to respond to that portion but yeah, youre making your ability to cope with damage better, but for less hits. I have wanted to reasonably be able to break helmets for a while. I wanna hear them shits break too.

[old pelican]

Good point. I have never had armor nor a helmet break entirely during a run. It isn’t even a risk. It is simply a standard task to repair the small amount of durability loss before the next round, but has never factored into a gunfight. I’ve had stens and mausers and mp40s break and when that happens, it is a gamechanger.

[bitter prawn]

Shotguns can chew up armour and helmets and so can blast damage when in ships. Unless you have strong equipment with high durability those sources of damage can break gear but beyond those two things I don't think most armour/helmets that have a decent amount of durability ever really end up breaking.

[hallow pike]

Yeah exactly. If helmets would be more fragile they wouldn't even survive a mid level space fight.

[arctic crystal]

In this part I left out why I saw it as important for lower class of helmets to block more damage and that’s so they can tank one hit from a high end gun even if it means instantly breaking like a leather cap so they have some purpose to exist other than for cool aesthetics and act as a good intermediate step between high and low class helmets while not being so ungodly powerful that it removes the purpose of high end guns, which is to kill quickly and effectively. And it doesn’t then take away one taps, plan boldly and go with no armor/weak armor and you can get clowned very hard

Yes I understand the grammar is bad I’m tired as shit lemme know if that’s confusing at all and I’ll tryn clarify

[native imp]

I think a huge way to balance all of this in a trickle down system would be to make great guns more rare or at least the ammo for them. Rat runs are the most fun part of this game, taking low gear and scummy strats to get an upper hand on your opponent. All of this goes out the window however if the opponent is a freebooter toting and STG shootin' group

Which I see every single match no matter what, makes lower caliber weapons practically useless, which is unfortunate because every single one has its own cool design and function

[thin osprey]

Headshots are the biggest contributing factor that allows lower geared players to outplay higher geared players, which is highly essential for a game that does not plan to wipe after full release

It allows skill to have a significant effect in game as well instead of just grinding gear and along with gear inflation

[arctic crystal]

Is this in response to what I posted or the OG post?

[thin osprey]

The OG post

Or just in general I guess. Just sharing my opinion

[arctic crystal]

Fair enough still tryn see what people think of what I posted to see if I should refine it into a proper suggestion that isn’t rife with errors and gaps

[idle oyster]

yea i beat a dude with a bren spraying me while i had an m1911 stamp because i did headshots

[tacit nymph]

ey yo, this needs it's own thread

[bronze tartan]

Duck

[mint rapids]

its also just good in the sense that a worst player will never beat a good play when ttk is long, but short ttk allows a worst player to maybe get lucky, its a equalizer tbh, compared to like apex, if the other person it better at apex you will never beat them, they just 1 mag you over and over while your missing like half your shots, short ttk games like valorant, csgo and marauders still mean that a good play will win a majority of the time, but you can still get lucky and hit a headshot instantly killing them

[tacit nymph]

be honest, most cases, the lowered gear new player is dying instantly before they even knew what happened, there is more fun in a prolonged firefight and the timmies would learn more from 10 seconds than 1.

[mint rapids]

I mean most if not all extraction shooters have short ttk, if you wanted longer ttk play apex or something, it’s just the style of game, semi realistic, if your eating a 9mm to the face your probably not gonna be in fighting condition assuming you still alive

[tacit nymph]

@mint rapids if that is the case, they should add back the long healing times, add realistic fall damage with limb damage, headshots should have a concussive effect, bleeding should rapidly decrease stamina etc

[mint rapids]

Key word semi realistic, too much realism makes it a hassle to play, but keeping it in core parts like gunplay is fine

[tacit nymph]

@mint rapids I get ya, I would want the headshot to be a significant hit that can turn the tide of a fire fight but the fun stops when the opponent dies, there is only so much mosin plays you can do before it bores both parties

[worn prism]

nah keep the headshot multiplier where it's at, if anything add a revive mechanic so that friends that die to that 1 tap have a chance to get back up if their friends can survive the fighting

[arctic crystal]

Was not expecting to get pinged on this months later, anyone may feel free to copy and paste my suggestion into their own ideas altering as desired ive by and large mostly stopped playing Marauders

[sinful moat]

Revive puts solos at a huge disadvantage though. That adds a whole new layer to trying to balance.

[worn prism]

as a mostly solo player im fine with it, just make take awhile to revive someone and use up an item for it, would let me camp bodies more when solo and would entice more people to play the game otherwise, game is already balanced for group play so I dont see the issues with it, once the player base is up then can make a solo queue for solo players if anything

[worn prism]

at the very least would personally take revives over increasing the ttk as a solo

[jovial robin]

I prefer longer fights, the multiplier for Head is TOO HIGH. I definitely support lowering it.

[potent dawn]

I like the headshot ttk where it is. We are playing a shooter not an rpg. Worst gun vs best armor can require several shots to the head with full hp currently. Making armor better will deeply unbalance the game to favor squads in an extreme way. Making gear too powerful of an influence on the outcome of a firefight will put marauders in a similar state to the cycle.

[tacit nymph]

the armour doesn't need to be better imo but it does need a rework as the current state is pointless with the damage multiplier, refer to this suggestion posted earlier, #1151357249122484285 message durability could play a role in damage reduction to give the balance we need