Gacha Gaming

[grave nebula]

wat im saying Japan wont let it happen even tho legal wise they cannot do anything

[lime bear]

someone will take over

and hopefull fix it

[grave nebula]

nintendo wont be done, too big to fall

and it wont be fix

[lime bear]

Ubisoft

they were too big to fall

[final musk]

yeah... no thinking that'll all happen is delusional af

LOL

[grave nebula]

Ubisoft is not big at all they been dogshit fora while people just turn blind eye

[final musk]

ppl enjoy nintendo games still

ubisoft is just straight up shit

theres a huge difference

[grave nebula]

exacally

[final musk]

just b/c you don't like Nintendo doesn't mean 99% of the world doesn't

[lime bear]

I don't see a difference really

[grave nebula]

Ubisoft fans literally blinded the public even tho its been dogshit for years

[lime bear]

Legend Aceourus graphics look worse than The Summoner in 2004

[grave nebula]

and???

Switch 2 still sold out

[lime bear]

just like with Ubisof, at some point people will start seeing bullshit

[grave nebula]

pokemon scarle and wat ever dat otehr one, graphic worst then Genshin release in 2024??? graphic worst then 2012.. how many people buy dat

[lime bear]

not really sold out, what Nintendo is showing is not what retailers are showing, Nintendo sold teh console to large retailers and tehri pckets are full, but retailers strugle to sell units

[grave nebula]

everyone played it

u have no idea how Huge nintendo are and how chained up nintendo fans are

[proper gust]

Funny thing is Nintendo should know better as they themselves have been targeted with bullshit unfair patent lawsuits int he past.

[grave nebula]

pokemon game has been back to back flop people still play it

[lime bear]

the dellusion of nintendo fanclub will eventually burst

[grave nebula]

eventually maybe

[lime bear]

this is why I said

[proper gust]

Back in 1983 Universal Studios tried to sue Nintendo over Donkey Kong claiming it infringed on the King Kong copyright. And more recently in the 2010s they had lawsuits against things like the wiimote and joycons that were clearly bad faith

So Nintendo should know better than to do the same thing to others

[grave nebula]

bruhhh

nah its the shit apply to retard on twitter

[final musk]

until there's a proper competitor, Nintendo is never going away

[grave nebula]

"rules apply to you but not to me"

[proper gust]

I remember the early 90s when Nintendo sued Galoob over the Game Genie, and LOST

[lime bear]

This

[willow zephyr]

Think durins story quest will be relevant to main quest?

[grave nebula]

disney nintendo EA all dis the same thing, people do it? nono u cant do that
when when WE do it its okey

[proper gust]

Let's be real tho, it's all on the bigwigs and their beloved "shareholders". The gaming industry is messy as fuck at the top

[final musk]

I mean the thing is who cares if twitter/reddit has a meltdown? That doesn't depict the majority demographic.

[willow zephyr]

It needing 5 days makes me not wanna do it

[grave nebula]

nowddays its kinda does which is stupid

[lime bear]

The company probably will hold out after this lawsuit, but things will change, either the CEO will go or the entire staff and someone else will take over, and hopefully fix it.

[grave nebula]

its even got to news media

people should not give twitter people attantion

[final musk]

Is Nintendo generating a loss right now?

[proper gust]

I just want to enjoy my fun games that give me reprieve from real life, and buying them supports the devs who poured love into them. That it also supports the ugly bigwigs at the top, is unfortunate, but nothing I can do about it

[final musk]

Why would the CEO step down

[grave nebula]

even worst dat some article writer also a redditor and twitter brainrot user

or worst bluesky

they just gonna pay the fine

[proper gust]

I don't like supporting the Chinese government but I see a lot of love going into things in WuWa, so I will still purchase the monthly sub and sometimes the battle pass

[lime bear]

the otehr way around, MSQ makes more sense to Durins quest, 5 days t odo it is just a wall for you to overcome, teh content is not really that long, it's just a 5 in game days with soe stuff to do butHoyo is glazing over During and artificially making him more important, meanwhile making everyone annoyed

[grave nebula]

Chinese dev is making good product so...

i aint paying for western dogshit product

[proper gust]

Yeh, because the devs actually put love into the product. You can tell they made it because they want to, not just because their job forced them to

[final musk]

[final musk]

the lens of a player is very different from people who work on games

[proper gust]

I mean there's plenty of western content that also has dev love poured into it

[grave nebula]

look foward for blackmyth series then

Wukong just the 1st of the series

[lime bear]

more visible

[lime bear]

Gonna be honest, a lot of chinese historical games coming out too fast and it's getting fatigued, tehir history is great and all, but seiously I'm tired of it all

[grave nebula]

dont play

[lime bear]

they need orginal concepts

[grave nebula]

people literally said there not enough of Chinese historical game its always world wor the western the cowboys

and china history literally the longgest history in the world

[lime bear]

yeah, it gets boring to be honest, I like new concepts

Horizon Zero Dawn was a great game until it was ruined

E33 is a great game and it already is causing people t odo teh same styles

I just want more creativity in video games

is that bad ?

[grave nebula]

HZD is mid imo, not good not bad... forbiden west just bad

[final musk]

I don't think i've ever seen someone post a stock market chart in response to whether a company is profiting or losing money

[lime bear]

yeah forbidden west was bad

[final musk]

why are you posting that lol

[lime bear]

but when ZERO DAWN came out it was really fun

[grave nebula]

dis one does to prove thier point

[final musk]

just look at their financial statements. They're literally profiting

[grave nebula]

u get use to it

[grave nebula]

iyup they literally on green

60% in profit for last 5 years

they ballin

[lime bear]

who audited that ?

[final musk]

for all shareholders are concerned, they're doing well making money

they don't care about lawsuits or patent drama which will just naturally come along with the industry

[grave nebula]

just like disney

they get sued go to court pay the fine continue

[lime bear]

okay have it your way

it's like when Blizzard audited themselves to figure out if there's a problem and they found no problems.

Ubisoft financial statements were saying they ae making millions of profits until teh shareholders decided to look into that and found out Ubisoft is bleeding money

if you want to believe in financial statements, ask a third party

[final musk]

While it's possible a company commits fraud, let's not just go out and say everyone else is doing the same.

[lime bear]

stock market statements are excellent at checking where teh company stands on teh market, if you see a dip, you have to investigate why the dip happens, and that dip is deep

[final musk]

and then start conjuring conspiracy theories

[grave nebula]

u asking teh wrong person moon

[lime bear]

that's why I said, if you see stock market dipping, and financial statement saying it's made of gold, something does't add up, you investigate

[final musk]

sure

but the average twitter/redditor doesn't know how to read a financial statement

they just see chart go up and down

[lime bear]

If nintendo really makes a big profit, why is it losing stock market ?

when a company is making big money you woudl BUY not SELL

doesn't add up

[final musk]

Do you realize how big Nintendo is?

[lime bear]

a third party shoudl investigate teh finances of Nintendo forshareholders so tehy woudl know what is going on

[final musk]

We're just talking about games here right?

Nintendo is involved in much more than games

[lime bear]

oh I know

[final musk]

for all we know, and idk cause i'm not following Nintendo

their games can be successful, but everything else failing

that would theoretically tank their stock

[lime bear]

sure, that's exactly why you want it investigated

find teh prblem

eliminate the problem

[final musk]

eliminate what exactly

🤔

[lime bear]

that's why you need to investigate

shareholders look at stock charts

they will start asking questions

lets say it;s jsut teh toys not selling

no problem

lets say it's mario land not having enough guests

okay

those can be fixed by changing marketing direction

but

just a but

what if the lawsuit is impacting the general Nintendo reputation as a brand

that's a serious factor

[final musk]

ima be honest

im not even sure if this lawsuit is all that relevant

[lime bear]

it is relevant, but unless someone makes an investigation into what is impacting the stock market drop we won't know how relevant it is, the relevancy of the lawsuit is enough that at least gamers are paying attention to it, without gamers, Nintendo will basically stop existing because :
no gamers no mario land
no gamers no toys sales
no gamers no otehr merch sales

Nintendo games built their empire and without people interested in tehir games (and consoles cuz they are exclusives) Nintendo will just bankrupt

As unlikely as this situation can happen, it's not a 0%

If you build your empire on games

fucking your gamers over will not end well

[final musk]

I feel like you're not realizing that "stock market drops" are completely normal. What's happening right now to the market isn't even anywhere close to what's normal

[lime bear]

I mean, that's a pretty big dip in 2 months

it could be that after new year it will go up

[grave nebula]

[final musk]

so as a business, do we start with short term mindsets? Or do we look

at the past idk

15-20 years of work?

[lime bear]

if I was Nintendo, who ran tehir empire pretty much entirely on games tehy make and consoles

I woudl look at teh past

look what made games sell

and just go with it

personally, as much as I currently hate some game companies, I know them since I was little, I played their games and loved them, and I wish none of teh current bullshit ever happened and that they just made fun games

[final musk]

That's the thing though, what was fun back then is, for the most part, not going to still be fun today

aside from the few that everyone talks about

[lime bear]

that's subjective

lets look at Square Enix

with Winal Fantasy XII they stepped away from Turn based combat and moved to more action oriented style

their games look nice

but

how many times you finished Final Fantasy VI or VII or even IX ? and how many times did you think of finishing the remake of FF7 ?

I can tell you on my personal experience

and remember

my PERSONAL experience

Ifinished FFVI around 4 times

FFVII more than 20

[final musk]

congratz....?

[lime bear]

Iplayed FFIX around 3-4 times

[final musk]

you're not the average gamer and therefore not representative of the market they need to capture

most ppl aren't replaying the same game 20 times

or 3-4 times

[lime bear]

I played FF7 Remake once and deleted, and I didn't even finish FF7Rebirth because it bored me

[lime bear]

Yes, but if we ask 10000 people that would be an interesting survey don't you think? this is why I said, it's my {ERSONAL experience

oh

btw

Square Enix did a survey 4 years ago

asking exactly those questions among otehr things

do you know the result of that survey ?

No

No on does

results were never published

I wonder why

^not a question btw

Squre Enix undertook a certain direction with their games and wanted to "strengthen" their belief that what they are doing is correct. I don't know the survey result, but, lets say it probably wasn't in their favor.

[final musk]

man, thank god companies don't openly tell the world all the projects they're working on.
If the public knew that 90% of them failed and never reached past a certain point, they'd be doomposting 24/7

like on god

[lime bear]

I get you except in case of Square Enix we do know

there was a leak on tehir projects

and we also got information from Yoko Taro that 90% of new projects were cnceleld

[final musk]

I mean sure. let's just say thats the case.

but

I don't know the survey result, but, lets say it probably wasn't in their favor.

why is this a bad thing?

in your eyes at least.

[lime bear]

okay so in my eyes it's not a good thing for Square Enix because their CEO is stubborn in the direction he decidd to take and will not admit a mistake

that's just my opinion

but

CDPR admitted a HUGE mistake on tehir part with CP2077

that takes gut

they came and said it

"we fucked up"

they fixed it

admitting a mistake takes courage

I hope the Square Enix CEO has that courage

if not publicly, then at least to the compay "Hey, I mistook the direction we should take, it's not selling, we should get more ideas"

I think if they did that

the company would come out stronger than ever

[final musk]

I mean you can believe what you want. If that's what you believe to be the solution to all problems.

But if it was that easy, we'd have more competitors over what we have rn

[lime bear]

but is competition a bad thing ?

[final musk]

this doesn't really mean much when you have pretty much nothing to lose.

[lime bear]

well, they have a lot to lose

Final Fantasy XIV for teh past 4 months had less active player accounts than Final Fantasy XI

for the first time in FF14 history the APA dropped that low

[final musk]

where are we getting that number from? They aren't published anywhere?

[lime bear]

Steam

[final musk]

...

[lime bear]

we are talking about PC

no one plays FFXI on console because Sony doesn't even have it on PS5

[final musk]

there's 0 chance we're talking about this subject using steam as the playercount metric

holy shit

nty

use some other game

[lime bear]

okay

lets look at global sales of FF7 Rebirth

[final musk]

at some point, if you're going to use ffxiv's steam chart as a representation of their playercount

i just can't help you 😂

[lime bear]

https://raijin.gg/app/2909400/FINAL_FANTASY_VII_REBIRTH/sales-revenue

less than 700K units sold

[final musk]

i'm honestly kinda lost on what's the point you're trying to make

[lime bear]

Square made high expectations of their latest high ranking titles, and vastly underperformed

this is the result of thinking "we know what players want, they will like this" instead of doing research on what players really want

long before FF7 Remake came out we had quite a lot of communication from Square on the project

they made some announcements about content that will be in the game

and what will be cut

you remember that ?

[final musk]

I mean yes I can agree with this, but what are you even trying to say?

what does this even have to do with what we've been talking about earlier?

that's what im confused about

or are we talking about an entirely different subject now

[lime bear]

no

we are talking about why admitting to a mistake is important

if they agreed the new style is not working before they even released FF7 Remake

it would have sold better

but since they decided to stick with the strategy in Rebirth

the game is not selling well

people didn't like the new progression system at all

personally I didn't really mind it, it was a trhowback to FFX

weapons and materia we had in first game didn't transfer

all progress is out teh window

I didn't expect it to be an issue really

same engine

[final musk]

yeah idk. I don't really disagree with your perception on ff7's relative success, but it just feels to me similar to how people interpret Lost Ark's current status.

so many numbers are inflated these days that people consider almost anything a failure if it's not up to standards with the rest.

there are a lot of things they probably could have improved on. e.g. not simultaneously releasing on multiple platforms these days seems to be a common denominator that i'll never understand even with subject to licensing

[lime bear]

Lost Ark ? the Diablo/POE hack and slash ?

or are we talkin ark raiders ?

[final musk]

yes the diablo/poe-esque

[lime bear]

because as far as I know Lost Ark keeps experimenting with tehir game and it goes one way or another

if it wasn't so predatory for microtransactions I would probably play it

if Lost Ark is having numbers up it means they did something right for a change

if the numbers dropped it means people are not happy

ok

so

if games are not releasing on multiple l[atfors, for example, a console exclusive (whichever it is)

I don't really mind it so long as it stay an exclusive, and for one reason, if it's a really good game and it starts generating a franchise on that console, you can leverage it to boost console sales, which is an overall win

lets take bloodborne for example

people want it for PC

which means it's relatively popular

but personally I think Sony is making the right decision not releasing it onPC

they have a potential for a sequel here

I could wager they are working with fromsoft to get a sequel for PS6 exclusive, which would be a good sales pitch if I'm being honest

[final musk]

If they want to keep it exclusive on a single platform, that's fine yeah. But I just don't see the point of games that delay their releases on multiple platforms

[lime bear]

yeah that makes no sense

FF games that released on PS4/5 and rereleasd on PC 2 years laters or a year later like FF16 did makes no sense

either keep them on exclusive list or release on all platforms if you plan to release them tehre later

FF16 sold over a million units but that's global on all platforms

Yoshida wanted to release it on PC and PS5 but Square execs told him no

he also said he felt weird about it

because they got more tech support from xbox and microsoft than from PS5 from sony

I remember also when 16 was announced it said XBOX/PS5/PC in teh trailer

and for a while on the website it also stated that

but later it was changed to PS5

and I was like

wtf

[final musk]

yeah I think that's one of the biggest contributors to the potential # of units sold. Majority of the sales are from generation of hype.

Not sure if theres ever been evidence proving otherwise, but I just don't see how you'd sell more units delaying across platforms

[lime bear]

I'm unaware of examples for that

we don't really have a precedent otehr than Square-Enix fucking up tehir roster to be fair

[final musk]

Like a movie can be complete dogshit, but there have been many movies that have sold tickets surpassing production costs on day 1

[lime bear]

Idiocracy

[final musk]

SE just has a few gems standing in front of a pile of trash

[lime bear]

budget and predictions for the success were so low only few tehaters had it

peoples interest in that movie was so big the DVDs sold like fresh buns

[lime bear]

yeah the bigger the pile of trash the smaller the gems seem

they are sustaining themselves now on remakes and remasters

I expect FF17 to be announced late 2026 or mid 2027

at earliest

if at all

maybe after release of PS6

you know what would be the funniest thing for Sony to do? get 20 PS6 permanent (good games) exclusives on PS6 launch

I would love to see good competition back on the market

[proper gust]

Yup that's kinda THE reason why both FF16 and FF7Rebirth both underperformed. Being a timed exclusive to one single platform already greatly reduced the pool of potential customers, but it being the platform that had, up to that point, been kinda underperforming in terms of ownership numbers, and both games were destined to fail to meet sales expectations. Just a simultaneous PC release alone would likely have seen both games exceed sales expectations.

People don't like to accept it, but PS5 and current gen Xbox have both been kinda flops in terms of sales when compared to Switch and especially PC

[lime bear]

ironically while xbox doesn't really have it's own perma exclusives themselves their gamepass gave them more engagement XD

[lime bear]

And SteamDeck, remember, if it runs on Steamdeck, it'll probbly be bought.

[proper gust]

PS5 in particular also suffered from a very weak initial pool of exclusives on launch, as well as the first year being disastrous due to chip shortages, pandemic and possibly the worst scalper epidemic gaming has ever seen. And many gamers, particularly in Japan, have a history of being slow to upgrade from the previous gen, so there just wasn't that great of a market of PS5 players compared to PC and even Switch. No way in hell was any game gonna meet sales expectations while being stuck on the PS5 for six months or more

[lime bear]

yeah and now RAM sticks being drained from the market

I don't think if RAM building companies realise it but you CAN'T perform Office work, on a console (unless it's SteamDeck or SteamCube)

[proper gust]

Xbox pretty much killed itself recently, and PS5 is doing better but still pales in comparison to PC and Switch. As things are for the forseeable future, games flat out NEED either a Switch or PC release if they have any hopes of meeting the ever rising, already unreasonable sales expectations.

[lime bear]

yeah Xbox bricked itself with price hikes

[proper gust]

And sure, 16 and Rebirth both eventually got PC releases, but by then the damage was already done; sales were already considered underperforming, and most of the hype and interest for the games, had already died down. Players who may have bought the games originally, had long moved on and given up on them.

[lime bear]

yeah and on top of that it was rather hard avoiding spoilers for those games for a year

[proper gust]

And the thing is, I'm not opposed to exclusives, because those drive competition, and competition is a good thing. But in an age where unrealistic sales expectations and mega pressure to appease shareholders reigns supreme, exclusives just result in failure.

[proper gust]

That's prolly the biggest contributor to the lack of interest in timed exclusives later getting a PC port. Players who were interested already gave up on them long ago because the interest tanked due to being unable to avoid being spoiled

[lime bear]

the reason why I didn't buy any consoles after PS2, was because the games didn't look that interesting, and if they ended up on XboX anyway, I knew those games will eventually land on PC, FFXIII ended up on PC after many years, but sure, I got it on PC, but nothing can make the charm of PSX or PS2 games ever again

Digital Copies are the biggest harm to gaming industry

[proper gust]

I did buy a 360 cuz that platform was overflowing with amazing games and had some spectacular gems for exclusives that pushed it above the PS3. Sadly the generation after that is where I feel like consoles began to fail when it came to appeal for the first few years, both Xbox One and PS4 were very "meh" in terms of what they had to offer, I didn't get a PS4 till, I think like two years or so before the PS5 launched.

[lime bear]

PS4 did have some good titles

but I agree

the moment Digital Copies were widespread

that's when we lost the plot

[proper gust]

Yup. While technically SNES beats PS2, a very large amount of the games that made it the best, were never released outside of Japan, and so for the world in general, PS2 ends up being the best

[lime bear]

I still have a working PS2 and 38 games for it

I lost my memory cards though XD

SNES was such a fun console

CONTRA for me

such a good game

[proper gust]

You missed out not getting a 360 cuz not only did it have a library that arguably rivalled that of the PSX, but it also saw the release of quite a number of games from previous generations that had never left Japan. IMO it was the last "great" console, everything after has just been rather meh

[lime bear]

yeah I wanted to get a 360

I worked at retail and I had access to all the games I could want for it

in Poland for some reason xbox was more popular than PS3

money was the only issue

[proper gust]

IIRC even in Japan the 360 was more popular; PS3's issue is that it's exclusives library paled in comparison to the 360's, and most of the really big popular great games were on both, so when deciding one or the other, the cards were in favour of the 360

[lime bear]

Well at least PS3 supported HDMI and you could use it as a BluRay device

[proper gust]

PS4 picked back up considerably in comparison to its predecessor, and the XbOne's disastrous reveal paired with it's extreme lack of exclusives variety helped the PS4 rise above it. But by then PC gaming was now mainstream and we also had the 3DS and later the Switch to push it back to the wayside.

[lime bear]

yeah, how teh turns tabled XD

xboxOne red ring of death XD

[proper gust]

As things are now, Nintendo remains the only platform that still finds success in exclusive titles. But the thing is, those titles are always in-house first-party titles. Third-party companies like Squeenix just can't make the same kind of success from exclusivity, especially when that exclusivity is for one of the two lesser performing consoles. And to be honest, I expect Nintendo will eventually start licensing PC ports of their games.

[lime bear]

funny yo usay that

let me see if I can find the data

there was a funny thing

so ok

you know why Cyberpunk2077 sales on Switch 2 are high?

MASSIVE DISCOUNT

that discount was not by Nintendo

and Nintendo is not happy about that Discount XD

[proper gust]

I mean that's kinda part of the recipe for successful ports; players who already bought it on the original at full price, will feel more inclined to double dip if the second buy costs less, and those who long gave up on waiting for a port, will also feel more inclined to reconsider purchasing the port if they feel they are getting compensation for the time they were forced to wait.

[lime bear]

Yeah but that discount was a glitch

but CDPR said it was so funny they liked it

[proper gust]

Ohhh if it was unintended discout then of course Nintendo gonna be pissed.

[lime bear]

it's still ona discount

the original discount was 75%

[proper gust]

But I mean, third party companies don't care about that, they care more about number of sales. And aside from that, 2077, in spite of all it's shortcomings, was a game that clearly was developed with a LOT of love and care, so of course they are gonna find it funny and more of a boon

[lime bear]

the correct one is 42%

the 75% discount was meant for Wicher 3

anyone who bought it for 75% discount doesn't need to worry thogh XD

https://x.com/CDPROJEKTRED/status/2003602413702512780

CD PROJEKT RED (@CDPROJEKTRED)

The discounts for Cyberpunk 2077: Ultimate Edition and The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt – Complete Edition displayed on Nintendo Switch 2 eShop in the Americas on December 22, 2025 were incorrect.

The situation is a result of an error we made when submitting the discount. We have

X · Dec 23, 2025, 11:03 PM

chads

[proper gust]

Back from this hours long tangent tho, I wonder if Kuro will ever do anything with the secret island in Jinzhou that requires Cantarella or flight to reach?

[lime bear]

probably not

I wouldn't

do the quick quest and unlock flight

doesn't it have a teleporter too ?

[proper gust]

No, the island doesn't even appear on the map

You can't even actually fly all the way to it the game will disable flight part of the way to it. Flight just gets you close enough that you can reach it with normal gliding/swimming.

[lime bear]

I wouldn't fix it

[proper gust]

Oh no I didn't mean it that way. I wasn't thinking for a "fix" of some sort, rather that it will eventually be turned into a piece of content. Cuz unlike most OoB placeholders it has actual collision.

[lime bear]

I'm thinking it's intentional

call me paranoid but there's logic to it

do you know how much performance boost it gives to just delete and move assets ?

so

let me explain it

Right now for most players this isn't really an issue

but back in the day we used to play games on HDDs, you know, mechanical magnetic drives

loading assets during a cutscene was a pain the ass

[proper gust]

Well the thing is, unlike Genshin's OoB cabin in Liyue, this island in Jinzhou uses the low-poly textures given to OoB placeholders. But unlike those placeholders which tend to lack collision, this island is fully interactable.

[lime bear]

some devs discovered that deleting and moving assets is faster than loading them

[proper gust]

I don't really get what that all has to do with the island tho?

[lime bear]

lemme explain on World of Warcraft early days example

as you know WoW isa an MMO

[proper gust]

It serves no purpose, doesn't exist on the map, and given that flight is disabled on the way to it, it's clearly outside of the intended gameplay area(it's actually quite close to the auto-warp barrier)

[lime bear]

in this MMO you had killable NPCs and a few cutscenes

[proper gust]

Oh are you talking about that secret island with all the corpses that players were able to accidentally access?

[lime bear]

Blizzard discovered that putting some NPCs in inaccessible areas (for players) and movingthose assets and slowly loading them back on that area, was easier on the system than loading the asstes in live

[proper gust]

Oh that, yeh I get that. Most games period do that, even modern games. Entities are usually held offscreen out of bounds and just pulled into their requires locations as needed

[lime bear]

it was a small performance improvement but it was enough to keep it going for a long time

[proper gust]

I've watched a TON of boundary break videos so I'm well aware of that technique

[lime bear]

that area in WuWa might be Kuro's solution to loading times on phones

[proper gust]

But those sorts of things generally are always outside of the player's allowed view, so the player quite literally NEVER sees the placeholder location. This island, on the other hand, was always visible and within the normal ingame boundaries, just wasn't reachable due to lack of stamina

[lime bear]

Genshin's solution was restricting teh amount of global NPCs in general

[lime bear]

it's a phone, I don't think phone players see it

[proper gust]

There's nothing of note being placeheld on the island, and the island itself is also never used anywhere else. It's just kinda....there. My guess is that it's a leftover placeholder for some cut content

[lime bear]

naah, when you do a quest, assets are loaded on that island so they are easier to move

the placeholders are models for characters, particle effects etc

you don't see them and you can't interact with them because they have a "invisible" toggle on them

[proper gust]

Oh that is interesting, I do wonder if phone players can see the island from the coast? I expect at the very least it does appear from the coast of the ToA area, which is where you access the island from with Cantarella or flight

[lime bear]

in the end the island being visible doesn't even matetr but it being there allows some assets to laod faster

I would assume just like with WoW and Warcraft 3 the improvements are miniscule in percentages

but it is enough to sustain it

[proper gust]

I never heard of that sort of method before. Usually the assets are held out in the void or under the ground and then pulled into the scene as needed before being deposited back to their original spots. Always areas the player can never see without abusing glitches or bugs to boundary break

[lime bear]

Wacraft 3 stored in out of bounds, WoW used both

there are so many games that do one or the otehr

if the map is huge it makes no sense to keep assets out of bounds, just put them somewhere on the map and toggle them invisible

[proper gust]

Yeh, but generally things stored out of bounds, are stored out of bounds in spots the player can never look at normally. This island is a bit different cuz it's close enough to be seen normally, but far enough that you just barely missed reaching it with normal gliding/swimming

It's just far too close and interactable. But then from what I understand WoW had an entire large island with explorable interior that looked all prison/corsey that was never intended to be reached by the player, so dunno

[lime bear]

I dunno how it's on phones for WuWa maybe it's good enough to do for loading times

I mean it' just atheory

a GAME theory XD

[proper gust]

To me it feels very much like it was placeholder for content to be added later that never ended up being added. It'd be fleshed out with a full non-placeholder version, added to the map and we'd access it by boat or npc or some other "warp" method. But the content was never added so the placeholder just remains there

[lime bear]

it could be implemented later

who knows

maybe it had planned content but that was delayed

[proper gust]

Kinda like Mt. Firmament, from what I understand it was similarly low-poly with collision back in 1.0 when It was inaccessible

[lime bear]

yeah kinda

[proper gust]

But unlike Mt. Firmament, this secret island never ended up getting it's associated content added to the game, so it's just a leftover.

[lime bear]

if it was meant to have content, that content could have been scraped or used elsewhere, but the island was left and might be used later for whatever

it's a big enough area to put something there

[proper gust]

I just wonder if Kuro will ever do anything with it since it's already there and wouldn't need much done to it. Even just a fun little easter egg.

[lime bear]

it could be where our "teapot" will be

[proper gust]

Oh that's true WuWa doesn't yet have its own "player custom space" like other games

[lime bear]

keep in mind co-op is still not a thing in WuWa

[proper gust]

I think it'd be cool if it's where we eventually get our proper "sea travel vessel" that allows us to actually sail between the regions.

Currently you outright can't do that even with infinite stamina/flight, because there are barriers that auto-warp you back to land kinda similar to the one that surrounds Inazuma until you do Raiden's second SQ

[lime bear]

that sucks because in Genshin you can travel over seas to Inazuma XDDDD

[proper gust]

Well you can't until you do Raiden's second SQ, before that the Sakoku Decree is still in effect and you eventually get teleported back to land if you try to cross the sea

I feel like eventually the similar barriers in WuWa's seas will get removed

[lime bear]

I swam to the Natlan island and hen I saw the active teleporter

[proper gust]

The really interesting thing is that there are still placeholder islands between Mt. Firmament and Ragunna, and they look fairly large compared to the tiny secret island off the coast of ToA.

[normal wolf]

@undone blade you on BBS?

[undone blade]

Not yet. Just gotta do a few things.

[normal wolf]

ok

Is there a time when you're logging in?

[lime bear]

ok now I know where Seelies get the money for tehir treasues XD

[undone blade]

Probably sometime after 6:30.

[lime bear]

Damn this looks so funny, we need more of those

[normal wolf]

Bleach TYBW spoilers

[undone blade]

It’s funny that he’s fighting in a chair.

[normal wolf]

Chair-sama is invincible

[undone blade]

Ah.

[normal wolf]

@undone blade you in game?

[undone blade]

Yes.

[normal wolf]

@undone blade start a coop and send me the room code

I recommed path of friendship or bankai coop quest

[undone blade]

Okay.

443742

[undone blade]

Code sent.

[normal wolf]

open the room to let 2 more in

[undone blade]

How do I do that?

[normal wolf]

Public room, auto on, no other restrictions

the blue button

[undone blade]

Did I do it?

[normal wolf]

yes start lol

[undone blade]

Okay.

I may lag a lot.

Everything is laggy.

I died like four times.

How do I make you leader?

[normal wolf]

join vc

[undone blade]

@normal wolf

[grave nebula]

Official New Year Art

• PGR, DNA, NTE, Ananta

• HSR, WuWa

[normal wolf]

@undone blade https://youtu.be/32azBKZfq-I?si=7xSFY8xKYwE7Gw5o

[grave nebula]

• Zenless

• Strinova, Arknights, Fate Trigger, Endfield

• AetherGazer (not even artwork stright up live wallapaper lol)

• MONGIL: STAR DIVE

• Girls' Frontline

[grave nebula]

https://x.com/ZZZ_EN/status/2006577374171713881

Zenless Zone Zero 🎉Season 2🎉 (@ZZZ_EN)

A Special Reward Dedicated to All Proxies | New Eridu's Curtain Never Falls

Dear Proxies,
As the bells signify our farewell to the past year and the clouds paint the dawn of a new journey, at this cusp of a renewal, we would like to wish all Proxies a Happy New Year! Thank you

X · Jan 1, 2026, 4:05 AM

aite Zenless officially Won

nobody outside gacha space would believe dis game is one of mihoyo's IP

another New Year Art

[undone blade]

@normal wolf

[grave nebula]

https://youtu.be/mBcjF5i1xrk

[junior arch]

Fusion negative status sword user to bring chisa into meta please

[grave nebula]

no New Year Art...
but there New Lantern Rite Art

even tho lantern rite is 2 month away but sure.. i guess

[normal wolf]

I'm done for the night but nice starting roster

[normal wolf]

Farm the kon ascension quest, and the bankai coop quest, for mats

For bankai coop, make your own room public & type in carry, or need carry
Get Harribel, blue attribute uryu, and both green attribute ichigo to max

[grave nebula]

i was watching hololive countdown concert last night

[undone blade]

Thanks and okay. My bad I just got back. I also had to let my dogs outside since they haven’t gone for a while. And okay.

[normal wolf]

Focus on these but the other 5* are worth maxing out too, 50 spirit orbs for lvl100 5 stars, 75 for lvl150 6 stars

After you're done with 5* max the 4* too, 35 orbs each

Also happy new year

Wow it's almost an hour into the new year lol

[grave nebula]

nearly 14hrs in here

[undone blade]

I will try and okay. And happy new year to you too. And lol it was New Year’s Day for me 46 minutes ago.

lol.

47 minutes ago.

[grave nebula]

time zone be time zoning

[undone blade]

Indeed.

[grave nebula]

animated web event... once again

i want UI-less version

[grave nebula]

dis looks so nice

[lime bear]

HUH ?
ELATION ?

I hope we get a 4 star elation as well because ffs WE GOT NO 4 STAR CHARS IN 2 YEARS

[grave nebula]

u really asking for a 4 star in dat game

[lime bear]

yes I am

[grave nebula]

its HonkiTrashRail, 5* only or nothing

https://tenor.com/view/hello-money-giveittome-mr-krabs-spongebob-gif-4184913

[lime bear]

well I won 50/50 on most characters I wanted in Amphorous, except Anaxa and Catwoman

[grave nebula]

dont worry 4.0 is all Elation and all amphorius unit became useless right after they rerun the whole roaster last patch to get the final worth of them

[lime bear]

well I have 2 units I really wanted so I don't care

Rice and Evernight

the rest i got is just a bonus

elation will be funny in break teams

it really sucks that in currency wars you can't use ALL characters

[grave nebula]

ahhh man... they nerf the elite enemy challange thingi...

u just fight now... dats lame

dis are cool, it have special challange

makes the challange moar fun

[grave nebula]

okey whey is she here....

is dis secret things after completing exploration quest?

bro got Vtuber hair style lol

[proper gust]

She'll be yet another Rectifier because why not?

[grave nebula]

A.I Waifu really taking over

[grave nebula]

i liek dis guy

bro bow and everything

demmit he got a cutrscene on max lvl... i didnt set on record

[grave nebula]

New buff FULL unlocked lets go!

https://tenor.com/view/zzz-zenless-zone-zenless-zone-zero-gifs-soldier-11-gif-11216445793678467387

[normal wolf]

@undone blade do this one to get the free tickets

[undone blade]

Okay.

[normal wolf]

When you do stages send friend requests to other players who join you for the boss of the stage. You get more mats doing rolls with friend points.

It's a lot of stuff, so ask me anything any time

[undone blade]

Okay.

[lime bear]

This is the Vampire Survivors effect

and even chinese players know it

and we can thank Asmon for it too

last time an event like this happened we had to get 5k points

now we need 200k

next time it will be 2mil

BIG DIK NUMBERS

this is so stupid

[lime bear]

mil

[proper gust]

I pulled the handsome panda dad today so Banyue has a decent support finally

Also pulled some chick named Piper, what's she good for?

[lime bear]

she's good with a bat

[junior arch]

i threw everthing i had at this, best i could do

58000 points is whale territory

[proper gust]

I couldn't even beat round 1, ran out of built characters by the time I got to Lamp. I'm prolly never touching this mode ever again

[willow zephyr]

finaly started the dragonspine event

give us a mavuika skin already

[willow zephyr]

minnie's parents are genuinly upsetting me atm

[willow zephyr]

through the power of plot traveler taking part in anything is an unfair advantage to the team hes on

[willow zephyr]

luck seems to be on my side in zzz

got ye shunguang in 10 or 20 pulls i think

and another S rank from standard

ah a W-engine

still nice

oh ye shunguang was 14 pulls

atleast now i can spend the rest of the patch trying for her w-engine

[grave nebula]

Lucky New Yorkers

https://vxtwitter.com/typicallygema/status/1932637482069246141
https://vxtwitter.com/typicallygema/status/1932649455615914103
so there's new ARPG that went under everyone radar....

GEMA (@typicallygema)

Rewinding Cadence | Announcement Trailer

The trailer just dropped with CN, JP & EN voiceovers! It not only teases bits and pieces of the lore but also combat and exploration gameplay.

The full video is quite long, so I'll split them into three!

#RewindingCadence #归环

QRT: typicallygema
NEW RPG ALERT!

"This is both the end and the beginning."

Rewinding Cadence just released a teaser for its full announcement trailer, set to drop on 6/11.

Based on the hashtags used on their CN accounts, it’s looking like an open-world RPG—but details on the gameplay or whether it’s a gacha still aren’t clear.

The game's theme seems to revolve around the concept of time loops—commonly used in narratives involving sci-fi or surreal elements.

#RewindingCadence #归环…

▶ Play video

vxTwitter / fixvx · Jun 11, 2025, 3:14 AM

GEMA (@typicallygema)

Rewinding Cadence | Combat Gameplay

The combat has me intrigued. It looks like each character will fight as a duo—the MC with the elf girl & others paired with animal companions. The boss fight animations alone are already looking intense.

#RewindingCadence #归环

QRT: typicallygema
Rewinding Cadence | Announcement Trailer

The trailer just dropped with CN, JP & EN voiceovers! It not only teases bits and pieces of the lore but also combat and exploration gameplay.

The full video is quite long, so I'll split them into three!

#RewindingCadence #归环

▶ Play video

vxTwitter / fixvx · Jun 11, 2025, 4:01 AM

okey... i guess vx refused to works

nvm dat works

Rewinding Cadence

• GIRLS' FRONTLINE 2

[grave nebula]

https://tenor.com/view/vergil-im-the-storm-that's-approaching-judgement-cut-gif-14728728478291869662

[grave nebula]

just saw dis copy paste min max profit sell sell sell

they not even trying anymore

[vestal quiver]

https://x.com/Kisaraizdabezt/status/2006713004877033856

Kisaraizdabezt 🇻🇳 (@Kisaraizdabezt)

The best clanker of today vs the best clanker in history.

X · Jan 1, 2026, 1:03 PM

[grave nebula]

we're so fucked Ai Waifu taking over

im already fallin for I.R.I.S

• Sunna - Physical Support
• Aria - Anomaly Ether

https://tenor.com/view/aod-angels-of-delusion-zzz-aod-aria-zzz-aria-gif-7926445975701140400

[grave nebula]

i think Genshin dev tryign to sabotage its own game... defuck is dis...

everyone hate dis event and they bring it back and make it even worst each time

[lime bear]

@white anvil Yeah, and add to it EMC and we might even get a 4star and team full but even without a 4 star, I think if yu have the dhalia the teams will be broken to hell and back 😄

[lime bear]

yup, entire decision making team needs to go

[grave nebula]

GI special program happen earlier... dispite it being THE columbina patch and lantern rite and Dottore boss...

i have zero excitment for it...

dats how dogshit is has been

[lime bear]

like I'm saying

[grave nebula]

it killed the excitment entirely

[lime bear]

the entire team needs to go

at some point Hoyo will realise this team is making dumb decisions

[grave nebula]

the only team dat doing good ish decisions are zenless team

others just stright up retarded

[lime bear]

HSR at least tries to do interesting stuff but yeah, and I'm still not interested in ZZZ

[grave nebula]

Sparkle recolor aint gonna get pass these bullshit

lazy as fuck

[lime bear]

they wasted everything they had on amphorous and it was bad

[grave nebula]

bad is an understatment

[lime bear]

And nuvilette gets his 4th reun

second this year

meanwhile

[grave nebula]

MONEY

[lime bear]

Shen He, Yelan, ganyu and Klee and Albedo who were in the Luna stories, don't get reruns

[grave nebula]

gotta sell dat outfit

[lime bear]

Yelan skin drop, no yelan banner

Shen he and Ganyu skins drop, no banner

[grave nebula]

hoyoverse the retarded company dat use its retarded playerbase as milking Cow

Neuvi moar populor and OP character

sell more

he rerun 4 times

do u really surprice

all goes back to..

https://tenor.com/view/money-mr-crabs-mr-crabs-money-money-money-money-gif-15303388842284429427

[lime bear]

he had a rerun recently didn't he?

[grave nebula]

he did

not dat long

if u not aware current banner rn

VERY VERY high value

legit milking to the core for rerun unit before releasing the most Populor character everyone want (Columbina)

[lime bear]

yeahI know

because of event

LMAO

[grave nebula]

excuse

they made up the event just to put the banner

like u said dis event can be in any time in the past

on purpose they do it now

watch columbina/Eneffa banner gonna have dogshit 4*

cuz people will pull anyway

one thing Genshin good at is their Marketing team, if their quality matched their marketing strategist... Genshin would have been even bigger

[lime bear]

yeah

[grave nebula]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6nlusRs79Q

im getting her

Ether already the rarest element in the game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJyXwH51Q-w physical support... ehh

[lime bear]

4th moon confirmed ?

[grave nebula]

okey i legit think WuWa Dev actually a fukin gamer... feels like they copied stuff from game they played and removed the annoyying part cuz they expirence it

aint no way all dis coincedence

[lime bear]

I'm pretty sure WuWa devs decided to make a game they woudl enjoy playing, like Sven said, make a game you enjoy to play, and players will enjoy it as well.

[grave nebula]

people hates Korok in Zelda games, people also hate Aranara in Genshin

[lime bear]

Genshin has too much cute in it

[grave nebula]

WuWa just made their own version of these lil shit and removed all the anoyying part of finding them all

[lime bear]

or maybe I played too many dark games in my life

[grave nebula]

finding them all in a single quest and the rewards in the end are crazy

i play slow AF... finished in 1hr 40sec

well 1hr 44sec

close enuff

Genshin is cuter 100%

[lime bear]

I don't like the cute i ngenshin

feels fake

like the sky

also

told ya 4 moons

get rekt

confirmed

[lime bear]

ah those little shits

do they even make sounds ?

[lime bear]

what was more annoying?

Asha or Aranara ?

[lime bear]

Yo they really do look like angels form NGE XD

[grave nebula]

Asha just twerking not even anoyying

aranara just anoyying period

[lime bear]

I meant normally, notin a cutscene

[grave nebula]

while following? no

they stay quiet

[lime bear]

genshin would never

[grave nebula]

why i found them they make chuu chu sound

then follow silently

[lime bear]

hmm, I didn't hear them when I found them

[lime bear]

https://fixupx.com/i/status/2006931502047928330

Star Rail Universe (@StarRailVerse1)

The Dahlia and Black Swan enjoy a candlelit dinner
︀︀
︀︀Cre: Bottled stardust
︀︀
︀︀#HonkaiStarRail

**💬 5 🔁 330 ❤️ 2.8K 👁️ 57.6K **

▶ Play video

FixupX · Jan 2, 2026, 3:32 AM

[grave nebula]

https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx0YMfR9QQ9O3L_tA1pnKZAXREG6_cSO1F?si=N6HxKlCE6_T73Py8

[rugged sand]

https://x.com/i/status/2006768493384077736

Inferno (#1 Pink Nanami fan🩷) (@Inferno_s_s)

We're in 2026 but this shit is still going on?
Everyone knows Wuwa 3.0 is a generational hit, revenue ain't disproving that.

X · Jan 1, 2026, 4:44 PM

https://x.com/i/status/2006751838004195706

ຸ (@longlivemyron)

Tears they couldn’t even scratch top 5 LMFAOOOOOO

X · Jan 1, 2026, 3:38 PM

Tears they could not beat a "couldn't even scratch top 5" for an award

[lime bear]

I mean, love and deepspace has a much higher gooner rate than otehr gachas, it's smut for women aftr all

[rugged sand]

They females are more pervy then us

[lime bear]

they killed off Nike for it

[rugged sand]

[lime bear]

well yes, you didn't know?

as an atheist, god forbid you ever have a wife, pregnant and horny, on a sunday evening, and you have to get up at 4am, you are not prepared

[grave nebula]

i see alti taking part of twitter shit talkin debate over the revenue again

logic wise they should be ashame cuz they make more money but game are such dogshit quality content wise

anyway got new trial skin for game lobby

not my type/taste but still pretty~

[grave nebula]

Yes i came to train at the temple to avoid all World distrac...

[junior arch]

The gacha revenue chart is never the real number, it is based entirely on data reported solely on Google and apple store mobile report, pc revenue is not included. The person that runs the gacha revenue site takes those numbers and add arbitrary multipliers base on speculation. So the numbers here are never accurate

Ppl just use them to tell other ppl their games are a week from EoS

If you really look into it, ppl have proven that the numbers have been highly manipulated in the past

[lime bear]

nice pair(or pear)

[grave nebula]

none of them care they just want something to show their game is better.. even tho revenue =/= better

EA make alot of money... but dogshit games back to back

[junior arch]

Mornye's weapon it looking kinda like a must pull for her lol

[proper gust]

How nice the handsome panda is getting an outfit and I just pulled him yesterday

[lime bear]

That would be accurate but people paid Square Enix for War of the Visions and it still shut down because it wasn't even in the top 100, revenue wasn't sustainable for the service. Despite having a lot of great characters, people moved away because the games story and new characters were lacking. The story was being insanely dragged out, and new characters were existing characters with new skills.

@grave nebula does ZZZ have 50/50 adn carryover? adn is Pippa clone still up? Might get back to win her if yes

[grave nebula]

zenless does carry over and Labubu bunny is free on log in

[lime bear]

oh

I really hope I'm wrong but every 5* character in genshin that gets a skin doesn't get a rerun

[proper gust]

Nice

[willow zephyr]

Does Belle have cat ears?

[lime bear]

Welp, at least I got something

[willow zephyr]

[grave nebula]

calling most broken class unit the game "something" is wild...

[willow zephyr]

https://tenor.com/view/ye-shunguang-zzz-mihoyo-agent-void-hunter-gif-3798851164716445416

[proper gust]

Being broken is temporary, being aesthetically pleasing or fun to play, is forever

[grave nebula]

why not both

void hunter

[lime bear]

I mean, I have Miyabi, a bunny ad now this, I have a good team ?

[willow zephyr]

is zhao good?

[vestal quiver]

for shunguang yes

dunno about other teams

[willow zephyr]

horsie works well with bunny

rina is the only standard S rank i'm missing

[proper gust]

I feel like both isn't really possible, even Furina is getting sorta powercrept as of late from what you've told me

[grave nebula]

dats genshin dis is zenless, genshin never said archon gonna be op then everyone else

zenless flat out said void hunter is

[willow zephyr]

https://www.kkinstagram.com/reel/DS-aVzPDdz2/?igsh=bzIwMG5oNDQ0cTA0

Indeed where is she?

[proper gust]

No I mean that Void Hunters are pretty much ZZZ's version of Archons in terms of gameplay, special superior units a cut above the rest of the limited units. But those all have gotten a bit powercrept in some manner over the years, like I said even Furina is apparently starting to feel it. They may be different games, but indirectly nerfing busted units via powercreep seems to be a thing in these sorts of gachas, so I'm expecting Miyabi and Shunguang to eventually lose a bit of their brokenness to powercreep.

I assume it's already a thing with Shunguang being more busted than Miyabi?

[grave nebula]

nope, zenless openly admited even when they introducing miyabi thgey clearly said Void Hunter gonna be more powerful more busted then any other character

[proper gust]

I never denied this.

[grave nebula]

just like Miyabi.. Shuangguang also being promoted super hard and her kit is VERY VERY strong on purpose to perform better then everyone else

[proper gust]

I never said they won't stay a cut above the rest, I said they'll likely eventually fall to powercreep just as busted units from other similar gachas eventually did. They'll still be a cut above everyone else, but won't be as busted in newer content as they were in content from when they were relatively new

[grave nebula]

archon just special just by title nothing else

Void Hunter literally tailor made to be POWERFULL then everyone else

[proper gust]

Like Furina is most definitely still a mega cut above almost every other character in Genshin, she's just been powercrept by Nod-Krai itself, not the units. Jinhsi got powercrept by Rinascita, Cartethyia will prolly get powercrept by Lahai-Roi later on. I expect Miyabi and Shunguang will get powercrept in later versions of ZZZ in a similar manner, while the new Void Hunters of those version become the new busted units

[proper gust]

You're not listening as usual. I'M NOT ARGUING AGAINST THAT

[grave nebula]

if u asking Miyabi fallen or not tbh not really the only reason she's not very usefull rn cuz all Enemy is tailor made to be countered by Rupture unit yet she still the stronggest

[grave nebula]

i get it but Void Hunter not the same

[proper gust]

Like I said YOU ARE NOT LISTENING

It doesn't matter if they are stated to be a cut above the rest, because I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THAT

[grave nebula]

im reading and u not accepting dat they are not the same even with newer unit

[proper gust]

Dude, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THAT

"ur not accepting something that you already accepted"

READ MY WORDS. I NEVER SAID THEY WON'T STAY A CUT ABOVE THE REST

[grave nebula]

yes i read it and i said its wrong

[proper gust]

You haven't explained why

[grave nebula]

they on purpose making Void Hunter to stay up above the rest

[proper gust]

That has literally nothing to do with what I was saying

[grave nebula]

they flat out pushing it when introducing miyabi

and said all void hunter gonna be the same way

[proper gust]

Like I said, you're purposefully ignoring that I'm not even talking about the same thing

[proper gust]

I never said this isn't the case. READ

[grave nebula]

[proper gust]

Stop changing the subject

Dude, I LITERALLY AGREE WITH YOU

If you read you'd know this

[grave nebula]

u said they get powercreep eventually and i said they didnt... where did i miss read?

[proper gust]

But them being a cut above the rest is SEPARATE THING FROM THEM BEING POWERCREPT

[proper gust]

Because being a cut above other characters is an entirely separate thing from being powercrept by other aspects of the game

They can stay better than everyone else and still be powercrept

[grave nebula]

and im saying they both they above the othgers in term of power in term of title and in term of power creep

even Ydhari is not as powerful as Miyabi

[proper gust]

They literally never said this. They only said Void Hunters would stay better than other characters

[grave nebula]

they have to tweak the enemy to fit Ydhari and on purpose makes boss not fit for Miyabi

[proper gust]

We have no guarantee they won't be powercrept later on by aspects of the game that aren't playable characters

[grave nebula]

so far they are

[proper gust]

Yidhari isn't a void hunter tho?

[grave nebula]

yeh dats the point

[proper gust]

Only Miyabi and Shunguang are from what I understand

[grave nebula]

by ur logic Ydhari should have powercreep her

[proper gust]

NO

[grave nebula]

being a rupture and newer unit

[proper gust]

YOU ARE NOT LISTENING

Again, READ

"by my logic" Yidhari will always be not as good

You are deliberately ignoring where I FUCKING AGREE WITH YOU

[grave nebula]

write better then, cuz how i read it u saying they just like archon Op for a while then get power creep later on

even tho imo archon was never op

[proper gust]

You deliberately ignoring half of what I say so you can be right isn't "writing better"

[grave nebula]

more so just hyped up

[grave nebula]

then explain then wat i missing here

[proper gust]

"aspects of the game other than playable characters"

As in, NOT THE CHARACTERS

[grave nebula]

owhhh...

[proper gust]

I'm not saying they will be powercrept by other characters

[grave nebula]

still yes

[proper gust]

I said this multiple times

[grave nebula]

[proper gust]

They will always be better than other characters

[grave nebula]

yeh even with non playable character they still better lore wise above the rest

[proper gust]

But take Jinhsi for instance. She wasn't just powercrept by the characters, she was also powercrept by Rinascita itself, like the new gameplay mechanics, enemies and bosses.

[grave nebula]

atleast until story make all void hunter join together to fight 1 big boss

[proper gust]

Void Hunters will stay better than other limited characters, sure, but they will likely get powercrept by OTHER ASPECTS of the game

Enemies, new mechanics, etc

[grave nebula]

yeh but wuwa never said sentinal resonator is more powerful then everyone else

even in game

[proper gust]

To sell the new void hunters, they will make older void hunters less compatible

Hence why I brought up Furina, cuz she's still much better than most other characters, it's Nod-krai mechanics and enemies themselves, that are powercreeping her

[proper gust]

My point is that being powercrept by game mechanics and enemies, seems to be a thing in these gachas

[grave nebula]

even with new Mechanic Miyabi still slaying all im saying is Void hunter might be the first one in gacha game where the dev flat out admiting to put somewhat "pay 2 win" chaarcter in their game

[proper gust]

So them saying void hunters will always be essentially "SS rank" characters, just means they will only be able to be powercrept by enemies, game mechanics and the like

[proper gust]

I mean Raiden was slaying till what, Natlan? Furina slayed till Nod-Krai

Give it a few years and I expect they'll introduce mechanics or enemies that make Shunguang and Miyabi less optimal compared to newer void hunters

Key wordd there "compared to newer void hunters"

[grave nebula]

yeh cuz they never said they are powerful unit on purpose to begin with

[grave nebula]

yes they they the same

i have both

[proper gust]

Like I said, you keep missing the point. They are the same as the void hunters when it comes to mechanics and enemy powercreep

[grave nebula]

i'll argue Miyabi might be better then Ye Shuanguang cuz how her gameplay works

[proper gust]

They never said the void hunters will always be optimal for stuff, they just said they'll always be better than other units.

[final musk]

void hunters seem like it'll resemble the failed project of pgr's system with uniframes and omniframes

[willow zephyr]

oh does anyone have the genshin codes?

[grave nebula]

and i say they not, i did say multiple time game on purpose trying to push out miyabi cuz she so OP compare to everyone elsehence why "anti Miyabi enemy" a thing, but can she beat em yes she can if u didnt have better DPS

[grave nebula]

somewhat but more exstream

cuz atleast PGR they have debuff when paired up with normal frame

zenless just flat out make void hunter way too OP compare to everyone else

[proper gust]

I dunno what that is, but they definitely seem to be treated similarly to genshin's Archons and WuWa's Sentinel/Threnodian resonators. A cut above the rest, a sort of "SS rank/6-star" unit. Always better than the rest, but still able to be nerfed indirectly by introducing other gameplay aspects that screw them over

[grave nebula]

and they honest about it so i have no problem with dat

[final musk]

eh idk anything about zzz

but theres plenty of ways to make them irrelevant

just give it time

[grave nebula]

the issue is here "treated similarly to genshin's Archons and WuWa's Sentinel/Threnodian resonators"

cuz they are not

[proper gust]

They are, even if it's never been officially stated

You can't deny that the Archon characters have always been deliberately a cut above other 5 star

They're "nerfs" have always been due to enemy or gameplay mechanics, not other characters

[grave nebula]

cuz genshin archon and wuwa sentinal/thernodian resonator just a regular unit with special title... not on purpose havign their kit way too Powerfull above everyone else

[grave nebula]

but they not

[proper gust]

And regardless, it's irrelevant whether you see them differently or not, because again, Void Hunters were never stated to be immune to powercreep

Tho the way ZZZ seems to do it's character kits does feel a bit futureproofed against mechanical and enemy powercreep

[grave nebula]

Zenless Void Hunter literally OP compare to other unit
same goes to PGR Omniframe nearly twice powerful in term of combat power

[proper gust]

Yes, we've agreed on this already. Multiple times

[grave nebula]

yyet u said they the same as Archon and Sen resonator, an im sayign they are not

[grave nebula]

dis is true but they were stated to be above everyone else in term of Power and performance compare to everyone else

[proper gust]

They are tho. Genshin's Archons were literally OP compared to other units. Zhongli still best shielder, Venti still best CC, Furina still biggest offensive buffer. But new regions were deliberately designed to fuck with their kits

[grave nebula]

special unit dat they make OP on purpose

[grave nebula]

they not OP at all they just hyped up more

[proper gust]

You aren't gonna convince me that the Archons all being OP in their roles wasn't intentional

[grave nebula]

they just better support with better kit not really have insane kti wise dat were made to over power the rest on purpose

plus Genshin went for universal support route

[proper gust]

lol Furina is the very definition of OP

[grave nebula]

nahh she just insanely good

[proper gust]

lol now I know you're arguing in bad faith

You in the past argued with me in favour of Venti because you thought I was saying Venti wasn't the most OP cc

[grave nebula]

u wint agree anyway cuz moon put it better Void hunter is closer to Omniframe/uniframe from PGR

[final musk]

I'm confused why the fact they've stated something means anything

[grave nebula]

they powerful on purpose and avoided powercreep

[final musk]

umm

[grave nebula]

[proper gust]

Zhongli is OP. Furina and Nahida are OP. Raiden is OP. And they still are, outside of newer region mechanics and enemies that were designed to combat their OPness

[final musk]

omniframes nowadays are pretty much stronger than uniframes

[proper gust]

Because China laws

[final musk]

so they've definitely been powercrept already

[final musk]

this doesn't mean anything when we're referring to powercreep. 💤

[grave nebula]

they going with these module idk why but im not complaining cuz they honest about it

[proper gust]

Chinese gambling law or something like that, if they state certain subclass of characters are better than others, they can't suddenly make them not better than others

[grave nebula]

they flat out said Void Hunter will be more powerful then everyone else

[final musk]

yeah.. that's absolutely not true lmfao

tons of other gachas prove otherwise

[grave nebula]

dis why i said they have to tweak enemy to be anti Miyabi and new unit like Ydhari is not powerful then miyabi

[proper gust]

that's just how I understand it. If they market these characters as a cut above the rest, they can't suddenly not be a cut above the rest

But I don't know the full laws so can't really say

[grave nebula]

not just china dats just legal wise opon product

[proper gust]

I do feel like sometime down the road we're gonna get non-Void Hunters that end up better than older Void Hunters, regardless of what they said

[grave nebula]

u cant change the product to make it worst

u can make it better

[final musk]

this will 100% happen

[proper gust]

No it's specifically a china thing, that's why nerfs are allowed in other games

Chinese law bans nerfing gacha units

[grave nebula]

im waiting for dat but til dat day happen, void hunter so far still immune to powercreep and most powerful unit in the game

[final musk]

its not that there are laws that explicitly prohibit nerfing units

but it's very close to a bait and switch

which is definitely illegal

so it all depends on how they go about the nerf

[grave nebula]

its more so of the law dat you making the product u sell worst after the purchace has been made... which is illegal everywhere around the world not just China

[final musk]

^

[proper gust]

This, I assume bait and switch legalese makes these statements about Void Hunters a sort of contractual obligation that they can't break from later on

[grave nebula]

Gacha = buying character

[final musk]

no

[grave nebula]

so by defult they CANT nerf chaarcter

[final musk]

void hunter as a classification has nothing to do with it

they can fade away in a year for all anyone cares

[grave nebula]

[final musk]

you just invent another classification thats more op

[grave nebula]

exacally

rn they said Void hunter above others and it stays as is until they made up new made class and flat out said better then Void Hunter

[proper gust]

Don't even gotta do that, just make new enemies or gameplay mechanics that don't play as nice with older Void Hunters, as newer non-Void Hunters

[final musk]

yeah u can do that too

but i mean you can do anything. just b/c the devs said "void hunters above others" or w/e along those lines

mean nothing

[proper gust]

That was my entire point about powercreep, they aren't immune to it because powercreep can be applied in many different ways

[grave nebula]

they already did, last 2-3 all tailor made for Rupture unit the Anti Miyabi patches

but they failed people still score with Miyabi

[proper gust]

And to sell newer units, especially newer Void Hunters, they will want to powercreep older ones. So their "bustedness" is only temporary, while their aesthetics and they way they play, are already set in stone.

[grave nebula]

dats wat those element is for all void hunter gonan be diffrent element and diffrent class

[proper gust]

But ZZZ seems to have somewhat futureproofed this with the way the gameplay loop is designed, and also with how they are willing to make new, better versions of older units

[grave nebula]

game like Zenless want u to have powerful; unit for each element

its not coincidence dat void hunter have the same amout of members as element in the game

[proper gust]

I'm having a blast with Banyue/Pan/Pulchra that teams tears shit apart even in missions that call for other elements

[grave nebula]

yeh u can but do dat but u aint cleaning high end content by brute forcing

unless u have Miyabi which is void hunter

she can brute forcing end game without being her element

with how Ye Shuanguang is rn... (my bunny Labubu is not lvl up yet)

she'll be able to brute forcing end game as well

which is not suprising

and all dis ^^^ without Zhao

idk how powerful she gonna be when i maxed out Zhao as well

[proper gust]

Oh I don't care about the high end content so it's fine.

That being said, I expect Miyabi and Shunguang will eventually stop being able to bruteforce the high-end content, and you'll be forced to pull on the newer void hunters to be able to bruteforce again

[grave nebula]

if dat the case non of these matters then

[proper gust]

That's why I said what I said

https://tenor.com/view/i-said-what-i-said-tamisha-iman-tamisha-drag-race-ru-paul-gif-20391468

[grave nebula]

i play high end content so it matters to me

[proper gust]

Yes, you'll always have to pull the newest void hunter to keep up

[grave nebula]

as ur comment about people just gonna only pull void hunter and skip eevryone else

yes its already happen

[grave nebula]

nahh, if they do dis all other character became useless if dat the case why they even bother to Buff Ellen Joe and all others S rank unit

all perma unit also getting a buff

[proper gust]

People who care about the high end content yes. People who don't, will be happy to get the void hunters, but will always care most about aesthetic and how they feel to play

I mean I'm pulling on Shunguang myself now cuz she's kinda sexy and her gameplay feels fun as hell

But she's not a "must pull" for me like she is for you

[grave nebula]

the point is Zenless if they smart they aint putting void hunter as requirment to clear high end content cuz dats the highest thing in the game... so far they doing good at it

if they did Ellen, Ydhari all gonna be useless as today

[proper gust]

That's what I meant when I said the game seems to be somewhat futureproofed against powercreep. The gameplay loop seems designed to be clearable without the newest most powerful units just to clear, it's just more difficult and requires more skill

[grave nebula]

blunt way to say... Void hunter is the unit for people who dont wanna learn how mechanic works and still clear everything

they were made OP on purpose, even if u suck at the game void hunter can clear it for u

[proper gust]

Yes, it's a bruteforce button that may eventually not work anymore. Hence why I said "broken is temporary". You pull a Void Hunter you really hate just for the meta and you'll likely feel disappointed later on if and when they stop being that win button they were when you pulled them

[grave nebula]

i hate to admit it... but Ye Shunaguang without her W-engine without Zhao is insanely more powerful then all maxed out talent and Sig W-engine Alice plus Vivian team

[proper gust]

It's honestly refreshing, neither Genshin nor WuWa feel as open flexible as ZZZ when it comes to doing harder content with characters you LIKE vs character that are busted

[grave nebula]

key word "may" as for today its 2nd void hunter.. Miyabi havent fall

on top of that miyabi team used Shokaku, missing an S rank support... meaning she can be more powerful

[proper gust]

Yeh, we can only guess how long they will remain busted. Raiden stayed busted in her particular role for like 4 years I think?

[grave nebula]

Shuangguang already have all S rank team

[grave nebula]

dats why i said they not the same

they neevr stated raiden gonna be powerful then everyone else

they can be good for several years, but they never stated they powerful then everyone else

void hunter they did

Zenless marketing team is not as Good as genshin and they went for these module of 1 special unit above the others.. and seem like they also promoting people to pull on Void hunter banner more then other banner

zhao banner is so shit there no reason to pull on her banner, while Shuanguang banner is way to good by havign 2 most broken A rank agent together with her

its consumer friendly so im down

also i wont be complaining my fav character getting powercreep by void hunter cuz they already stated so

[willow zephyr]

anyone has the genshin codes?

[grave nebula]

︀︀Primogems ×100 + Mystic Enhancement Ore ×10 "ComeNightorDay"
︀︀Primogems ×100 + Hero's Wit ×5 "Zibai0515"
︀︀Primogems ×100 + Mora ×50,000 "GallopYeah"

[willow zephyr]

https://tenor.com/view/so-cute-aww-thank-you-gif-6181624880724588789

[proper gust]

Again it's not about what Hoyo did or didn't state. With the exception of Mavuika all of the Archons were, and still are, more powerful than everyone else all by themselves. Zhongli is still top for shields, Venti is still top for CC, etc. They just are no longer the "must pull" units they were. The Void Hunters will likely be the same situation, eventually losing their edge as bruteforce win buttons as new Void Hunters are released and take their spots. As well, we shouldn't expect future Void Hunters to all be bruteforce win buttons on release, because we're bound to eventually get some that are non-dps type like Support and Defense.

Oh that reminds me, did Columbina end up being the "Archon" of Nod-Krai in terms of her kit?

[grave nebula]

nahh Kirara better then Zhongli yes shield wise
Kazuha better CC now dat venti buff make him more DPS

like i said they not the same

[grave nebula]

she in team enable everyone to trigger lunar reaction

[proper gust]

Kirara and Kazuha are "technically" better, but that's in terms of the overall contribution. Zhongli still provides much stronger shields than Kirara, Venti's CC is resisted less than Kazuha's

[grave nebula]

dat just stright up wrong kirara literally have strongger shield

[proper gust]

I'm pretty sure Kirara's shield is outright weaker in terms of raw numbers

[grave nebula]

no idea why they did that but im not complaining since she's a 4 star ez access

[proper gust]

It's just much better utility in the long run because she's not Geo

[grave nebula]

she literally have strongger shiled and higher numbers on her shiled...

[proper gust]

And you were the one that pointed out to me that Venti's CC is stronger than Kazuha's despite being less overall utility and not being as on-demand

[proper gust]

Pretty sure that's not true, could you post some proof of that?

[grave nebula]

it is strongger to suck in but short timer and need to use burst = worst

[grave nebula]

u really gonna make me dig up video from the day kirara release

[proper gust]

Cuz I've heard nothing but the opposite from literally everywhere since Kirara released

[grave nebula]

either u didnt look it up at all or u just like evryone else just ignoring the 4 stars

[proper gust]

The general consensus I always heard was that her shields were weaker on their own but overall still stronger because of the extra utility they provided

[grave nebula]

just like evryone ignore gaming when he first release not until several month people finally relized he better then Diluc and Klee

[proper gust]

lol that's definitely not true

I remember everyone gushing over Gaming when he released, people saying he was so strong he shoulda been a 5 star

[grave nebula]

nahh people legit give no crap about Gaming

not until zejef show culculation how busted he is

[proper gust]

Maybe in your circle, I kept seeing everyone going crazy over how good he was for a 4 star

[grave nebula]

and other CC actually gave it a try

[proper gust]

Like from day 1 his release I was seeing tons of suprised praise for him

[grave nebula]

have all major Genshin CC back then pretty sure i get most of them in my radar nowdays not anymore

gaming got hyped up nearly the end of the patch when people finally relized he better then 5*

same goes to Kirara people ignore her

[proper gust]

Weird that we had such opposite experiences. Everywhere I looked people were going gaga for Gaming, and Kirara was also getting a lot of attention at the start people going on and on about how she was even better utility shielder than Layla(who is also technically better than Zhongli due to the utility)

[grave nebula]

on kirara and layla one i dont really agree cuz Layla cooldown is better.. but Kirara better cuz of dendro

and then people find out her numbers is bigger

[proper gust]

From what I understand Kirara's raw shield numbers are higher than Layla's, but both of them aren't too far behind Zhongli, and most content that would necessitate a shield that difference between them is small enough to not merit giving up the extra utility they bring.

That's the thing with Genshin tho, characters being stronger on their own doesn't mean all that much because the game focuses so heavily on full party synergy. It's why Mavuika is an interesting suversion, because unlike the other archons, she's weak as shit on her own, she needs the rest of the party(specifically Citlali) in order to shine.

[grave nebula]

she's mid without her teammates which is stupid way to design

[proper gust]

Yeh, unlike the other Archons her raw numbers by herself are pitiful. And from what I understand she doesn't just need the party synergy, she also needs her sig in order to achieve "busted" status

Meanwhile Shunguang all by herself in her test trial was just utterly destroying everything

[grave nebula]

tbh genshin team lost their original vision they wanted for the game dats why it so godshit story wise

[grave nebula]

yes its on purpose... just like Miyabi

[proper gust]

It does have me interested in how they are gonna handle the eventual non-dps Void Hunters

[grave nebula]

Ceaser King is DEF character but deal Shit tons of DMG

https://tenor.com/view/caesar-king-zenless-zone-zero-zzz-mihoyo-hoyoverse-gif-11883859923430250688

[proper gust]

She's not a void hunter tho

Right now only playable void hunters are Miyabi and Shunguang

[grave nebula]

yeh which mean Void Hunter DEF can deal more DMG