Newton Nerf

[zealous crane]

Although I am a Newton Titan user, I believe that it is irrationally overpowered. No robot can survive the newtons choke ability because even if you use phase shift, the choke ability duration is too long and you will get obliterated.

The best way to make this robot balanced is to reduce the choke ability range to 500 meters instead of 800, and remove any suppression effects so the robot abilities can be used to dodge attacks.

[grand quarry]

Newton is not the problem

The weapons are

Newton without tonans and fulgurs is mid

There is a problem when weapons meant for sniping can be used at close range just due to how Powerful they are

[zealous crane]

the weapons wouldn’t be op if you couldn’t use them from an 800 meter range

if u had to get within 500 meters, where the enemy could fire back, the fight is more fair

[grand quarry]

What are they fighting back with

Vajras and sonics are useless at that range

Lantern and lance get out dpsed any day of the week

The amount of damage that tonans and fulgurs does is simply ridiculous

[zealous crane]

who fights a newton with sonics 🧍‍♂️

[zealous crane]

all titan weapons are op

[grand quarry]

Who doesn't run sonics or vajras on their brawler titan?

[grand quarry]

Tonans is head and shoulder s above the rest at 500m range

Name one titan weapon that can compete with it at that range

[zealous crane]

luchador, rook, indra

[grand quarry]

I'm saying weapons?

[zealous crane]

oh my fault

kraken evora veyron when combined with the abilities of those titans

[grand quarry]

Dude

Vajra tickles at 500m

[zealous crane]

you get a newton in 500m range of an indra it will get wiped

[grand quarry]

Do you not want to test it?

I can run my vajra luchador right now

You stand 500m away

Well see how long it takes to kill it

[zealous crane]

then that’s why you get closer 😱

[grand quarry]

Choke:

[zealous crane]

choke doesn’t last all game

[grand quarry]

Choke cd being shorter than frog splash makes it do the same

[zealous crane]

luchador can reflect while choked then jump towards the newton and wipe it

[grand quarry]

What

Reflect while choked

And the jump?

[zealous crane]

or absorb same thing

💯

[grand quarry]

Any Newton with half a braincells will choke when the luchador jumps

Not at any other moment

[zealous crane]

even then ur advancing

and getting closer

[grand quarry]

Getting closer?

The luchador is barely faster than the newton

Let me check the stats

[zealous crane]

dawg it leaps

[grand quarry]

Same speed

[grand quarry]

Dawg choke

Choke will stop the leap any day of the week

Due to it having a shorter cooldown

[zealous crane]

even if you choke in the middle of the leap u get closer

[grand quarry]

Get closer? Tonans and fulgurs kills a one million health luchador in two blasts

Believe me, i've experienced that

[zealous crane]

what level is ur titan

and pilot

[grand quarry]

146

level 62 pilot

all durability skills

[zealous crane]

and are your pilot skills adjusted

[grand quarry]

yes

i have two maxed repair amps and two maxed dcs

and I still die in 3 blasts to newtons

[zealous crane]

what guns do u use on it

krakens?

[grand quarry]

yes

Thankfully, I don't need to worry about it being useless at any range above 300m because i'll be too dead by the time i get within that range to consider it

[zealous crane]

i promise you i die all the time to rooks and luchas with krakens and veyron

[grand quarry]

Then you just aren't positioning well

A newton that camps behind their team is invincible

[zealous crane]

ur trying to basically compare a scorpion to a crisis

[grand quarry]

Don't even get me started on when two newtons get dropped

[grand quarry]

?

[zealous crane]

ofc it will stay out or range where u can’t get hit

that’s how u play a ranged robot

[grand quarry]

Yes?

[zealous crane]

you fight range with range

[grand quarry]

I fight range with range

[zealous crane]

or approach it with an indra

[grand quarry]

So i'm meant to wait until my teammate drops a newton

To kill the newton

[zealous crane]

it chokes u then use the ability

and u take no damage

get closer and closer

ideas are much faster

[grand quarry]

If you aren't behind a building you die when the ability is over

[zealous crane]

indras

[zealous crane]

then get behind one?

[grand quarry]

Alright, back to the point, are you seriously trying to argue that tonans and fulgurs are balanced?

[zealous crane]

if ur wandering in the open you deserve to die

[grand quarry]

And how am I meant to kill the newton behind a building?

[zealous crane]

yes

[grand quarry]

Aight then im done here

[zealous crane]

the titans ability is op

[grand quarry]

No use arguing about that 💀

[zealous crane]

ur the one complaining about the choke ability

but aight

💀

[grand quarry]

no, im complaining about the synergy between the choke ability and the weapons

[zealous crane]

exactly why i said nerf the ability

😭

[grand quarry]

Well my bad

Although I still stand by my point that tonans and fulgurs are not balanced

[zealous crane]

whatever helps you sleep at night pal

[versed grotto]

Oh, this is what you were talking about lol. Newton is not the problem, as Pootato said. The problem is the weapons.

[versed grotto]

Ah, nerf the ability instead of the actual problem lol

"Do we nerf the actual problem, or the thing that makes the problem worse? Let's nerf the other thing, even though it's irrelevant because the weapons are gonna be used on Rooks and Indras anyway

[grand quarry]

Yes, that's what I was talking about

Newton makes the tonans and fulgurs stronger

But they're already too strong

[versed grotto]

100%

[idle aspen]

All i need was a longer cooldown on the choke ability so i can kill the newton

[versed grotto]

Cooldown can stay, duration needs to be decreased to like 5 seconds max

[grand quarry]

Yeah duration shouldn't allow them to get two volleys of tonans shots

[bright laurel]

Thats the point tonans allow u to run them on any brawler

[bright laurel]

Tbh the ideal would be to be just a simple jump unit but i guess we are facing Pixonic sooo

...

Ye

[silent swallow]

Choke / Tonans / fulgurs should be 600m. An advantage over normal 500m alpha beta weapon but stop meaningless killing when there are 2+ newton in a team. They just take turn to choke enemy and kill (if not one shot kill).

Even nerfed, tonans / fulgurs will likely still powerful (not another striker). Nerf distance will be more balanced

[bright laurel]

Yeh cause they deal 3 times the damage of striker wich should not be happening in the same range for two legendary weapons

Two options
-decrease damage output by a lot, like half damage, or

• decrase distance to 600 m and decrease firepower by 20%

I prefer the second option because zeus has 600m so it feels broken

[versed grotto]

Range to 600 would still outrange most weapons and you'd still complain about how it's op

[silent swallow]

I think there should be a distance advantage for choke but current setting (800m) give no chance for other titan, luch, rook… to counter which should be fixed

[versed grotto]

That's literally the point of Newton. It's meant to answer titans lol

It is the anti-titan titan

[honest wyvern]

NERF IT ALLLLLLLL

[versed grotto]

Chill with the caps

[hollow sable]

Ease with the caps usage

[honest wyvern]

Ale

Alr

But newton is annoying

1 shots literally everything in the game

[random basin]

Not sure if this is already the case, but a nerf idea is that Newton should have to stay aligned/aiming at the enemy robot to keep it levitated, and if they aim away from it then the levitation also ends right away and the remaining ability time goes to waste.

Of course one doesn't see Newtons aiming away from the levitated target anyway, but at least it makes the titan make more sense.

[versed grotto]

That would be an interesting rework, but not something that would be particularly good at all. It just forces the Newton to tunnel you lol

[random basin]

Another idea: if the levitated target has more HP than the Newton currently has, then the Newton starts getting the Gravity Amp effect.

[versed grotto]

That's not hard to do.

[random basin]

True

[random basin]

I mean, before the Newton has started getting damaged, its raw HP is one of the highest in the game isn't it?

[honest wyvern]

I think it should be something simple like -10% health -2 second levitate duration and a nerf on the Ronan’s and fulgur dmg

[versed grotto]

Perhaps. But it's too punishing. Shouldn't have a penalty like that

[honest wyvern]

*tonans

[versed grotto]

Doesn't need an HP nerf. Choke nerf is all it needs

[honest wyvern]

It also needs a dmg nerf

Even if the duration is shortened it would still 1 shot everything

[random basin]

Aw but I'm tired of simple nerfs. I want nerfs that also add something new and strategy

[honest wyvern]

I don’t really know much about the other railgun ability

[versed grotto]

Newton itself doesn't do all that much damage with Longshot. It's just the weapons.

[honest wyvern]

If u want it like that then I’d say make the weapons worse against physical shields and because of the insane dmg I slight health penalty on the firing robot

[versed grotto]

Leave the titan alone.

[versed grotto]

These are both unrealistic. It's already 50% less effective against Physical, being an energy weapon lol

[honest wyvern]

It still eradicates pretty much every titan shield

[random basin]

Well there is something there. I think its extra damage to titans might also be applying to their shields. If not, nevermind.

[honest wyvern]

I wouldn’t be surprised if I saw one get through one of those purple energy shields

What are those called again?

Absorber?

[versed grotto]

Maybe. Still, not too relevant. It's an anti-titan Titan. It's gonna do well against them. That's literally the whole purpose lol

[random basin]

True

[honest wyvern]

Yes

[versed grotto]

Absorber is correct

[honest wyvern]

But the thing is

Even if ur anti titan

You shouldn’t just be able to 1 shot everything at a sniper range

It’s just broken

[versed grotto]

That's less to do with Newton itself than the weapons. Like I said, Newton just needs a choke duration nerf and it'll be fine

There's a reason people don't run Newton without Tonans and Fulgur lol

[random basin]

For the titans Zeus weapons, I actually do side with a simple nerf tbh. Just do 25% less dmg or 2 more sec of reload.

[honest wyvern]

For the actual titan I’d say give the ability less duration and a bit less health

[versed grotto]

2 more seconds is effectively 40% damage nerf. 25% is... well, 25% lol

[random basin]

It's the Newton that imo deserves a more interesting nerf, that should make it more interesting and keep it useful.

[versed grotto]

HP is fine. It has no defenses aside from Choke.

[honest wyvern]

It’s a sniper

Things barely get to touch it

Even if the get close enough it still has enough health to successfully win a brawl

If they even manage to close the distance

[random basin]

BUT! When you only get to take an occasional shot at enemies running from cover to cover, the longer reload is preferable to the reduced damage.

[honest wyvern]

U got a point

[random basin]

So both seem like acceptable ideas

[versed grotto]

Um no. Rook and Lucha sub-300 can both solo a Tonans-Fulgur Newton

[honest wyvern]

Totally unrelated but they should add a way to get old special editions

[versed grotto]

If you're waiting that long, sure. But ideally you're hitting somebody off reload

[honest wyvern]

If the reload nerf happens it would be just crisis all over again

And cover doesn’t matter if you can just hoist your enemies into the air and shoot them

[random basin]

Sometimes we don't get to choose the wait, is what I mean. And when that wait forcibly exceeds 5 seconds, you would rather have the reload nerf than the damage nerf.

[versed grotto]

Valid argument

[random basin]

Right. So maybe that's extra support for the reload nerf, since it would annoy Newton users enough to make them switch to other weapons?? xD

[honest wyvern]

What I’m saying is that the reload nerf wouldn’t do much if you can still just create an easy opening to shoot from afar

Whenever you want

So I’m thinking either damage or range gotta go

[random basin]

I'm not sure, but I think the current 5 sec reload is allowing Newton to get 3 shots at the target rather than 2 when levitating.

[honest wyvern]

Maybe clip capacity could go

[random basin]

But I see your point, anyway I'm not too interested in how those weapons get nerfed tbh, they are just titan copies of Zeus.

[honest wyvern]

The individual shots are pretty weak

The problem it the amount of them

Pixonic went screw it and chose quantity over quality

[random basin]

Yep, that represents those weapons and the new homing ones. Quantity over originality

[honest wyvern]

Spiral<aphid<thermite<vortex<kisten<bulava

All the same thing with different numbers

[random basin]

Spiral and Aphid, not quite!

But the others I agree

[honest wyvern]

Hurricane somewhat like a debit

Senit

Zenit

But I don’t have one that’s just what I’ve seen

[random basin]

Yep, quantity over originality. Sometimes I think if we had got no more weapons after Exodus, game would be fine. But of course that's exageration lol. Harpoon weapons were original for example, so of course i'm kidding.

[honest wyvern]

And how come spiral and aphid are different?

Reaper was also pretty new

[versed grotto]

I see y'all have been killed by Newton one too many times and just want it gone. I'm so glad y'all are not on the dev team 💀

[honest wyvern]

No not really

[versed grotto]

It's 2.

[random basin]

Yea, different rate of fire (Aphid is all at once), range, different trajectory capabilities!

[honest wyvern]

It’s just pretty annoying when I see one one shot a Indra

[versed grotto]

They're meant to serve different purposes. Spiral was for long range and has worse tracking. Aphid has better damage and tracking, but much shorter range

[honest wyvern]

Ok

[versed grotto]

That's a skill issue on Indra's part, one of the best titans to face Newton with

[random basin]

Ah wait, that's another thing, Spiral actually has better tracking, it never misses. Aphid does miss. But we are going on tangents, back to our sweetheart Newton lol

[honest wyvern]

I’ve never killed a newton because just when I get into shooting range I’m out of cipsanna charges and get disintegrated

Vipsanna

[versed grotto]

Spiral gets beat by walls. Aphid has better tracking and can just go around them at most angles

[random basin]

But that's when the Newton has the titan Zeuses, which we already agreed need a simple nerf.

[versed grotto]

So use cover

[honest wyvern]

I can’t just teleport behind cover in the 2 seconds it takes to kill me

[random basin]

Spiral is the one with 600 m range that can bend the most around cover, are you sure you aren't mixing them up?

[versed grotto]

I'm positive. Spiral won't go around walls, for the most part. Aphid has a much tighter turning radius and better damage

[hollow sable]

U got them reversed

Phids don't like walls. Spirals can curve

[honest wyvern]

If we’re talking about homing skills I thing homing blackout easily wins

[versed grotto]

Welp, I stand corrected then lol

[random basin]

Alright then, the damage part I agree with. But Aphid does miss whereas Spiral doesn't, unless recent silent changes have ruined that contrast.

[honest wyvern]

Let’s head back to the topic of newton

[random basin]

Alright

[hollow sable]

Spiral type never had good damage. Phid on the other hand can dish out

[honest wyvern]

Do you think they meant for newton to be the gravity defying one

[versed grotto]

Yes, hence the name "Newton"

Yk, the guy who did the whole gravity thing?

[honest wyvern]

Issac got mad hearing pixonic

[random basin]

I will refer back to this

[honest wyvern]

Alr

oh

And about that one

I think it should be percentage of hp because you can’t see how much he a robot has or what lvl they are

There is only that bar

[random basin]

Not only the whole gravity thing, also the whole laws of motion thing. So it would be fitting if Newton's Choke does consider the difference in HP between the Newton and the robot it's lifting, a bit like the differences in mass that are talked of in newtonian laws of motion.

[random basin]

But I think doing it based on HP adds strategy... I mean the Newton user would have to try to estimate the "mass" (HP) of the target first, which means at least better knowledge of the robots that exist and how fast they move around, all that jazz.

[random basin]

If it really is too punishing, just combine this nerf with a buff to Newton's HP, only as much as needed.

[versed grotto]

HP is not equivalent to mass 💀

[versed grotto]

Neither of them is relevant or likely to happen

[random basin]

Of course not, it is simply analogous

[random basin]

You mean neither of the ideas I said? Well in that case, let's just accept whatever lazy "simple" thing Pixonic comes up with ig, as usual...

More than nerfing, I'm just trying to refine Newton here