#help-development | SpigotMC | Page 1336

covert stump Mar 21, 2026, 3:44 PM

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lol were u talking about my scoreboard that i sent..

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I was a bit busy

thorn isle Mar 21, 2026, 3:44 PM

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myes

covert stump Mar 21, 2026, 3:44 PM

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thorn isle myes

ah yeah i saw..

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thanks for opinion

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I'll make some small fixes they are easy..

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and in my opinion.. LOL there is nothing much to event in scoreboard therefore every server has the same

thorn isle Mar 21, 2026, 3:46 PM

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i kind of don't like it as a concept honestly, it just gets in your face with things you already know or could easily check with a command

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i'd rather throw balance and such on the tab footer

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and use the sidebar for something like a quest tracker

covert stump Mar 21, 2026, 3:47 PM

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thorn isle and use the sidebar for something like a quest tracker

I see..

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interesting

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But me personally checking everything by command is kinda annoying

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as a player

thorn isle Mar 21, 2026, 3:48 PM

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however this has some practical difficulties because it seems every server on the earth has a sidebar that shows the exact same things, so players are ad-conditioned to not look at it

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i had this case where a player was asking "why is my balance not going up when i sell things"

covert stump Mar 21, 2026, 3:48 PM

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thorn isle however this has some practical difficulties because it seems every server on th...

exactly

covert stump Mar 21, 2026, 3:49 PM

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thorn isle i had this case where a player was asking "why is my balance not going up when i...

😭

thorn isle Mar 21, 2026, 3:49 PM

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it turned out they were looking at the $200 quest reward in the "rewards" section of the sidebar

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which, mind you, had a big bold all caps QUEST title

thorn isle Mar 21, 2026, 3:50 PM

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covert stump But me personally checking everything by command is kinda annoying

you probably already know your rank if you play; money, ping, server date + time, other good-things-to-know go best on tab

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much faster than a command and isn't bolted to your face all the time

covert stump Mar 21, 2026, 3:50 PM

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thorn isle you probably already know your rank if you play; money, ping, server date + time...

but yk im addicted to look my tab and scoreboard constantly

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u can remove scoreboard tbh if u dont like

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many client has those options

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and even i hav that option too

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using /scoreboard

thorn isle Mar 21, 2026, 3:51 PM

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i suppose, it just seems like a waste of effort and space

covert stump Mar 21, 2026, 3:51 PM

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thorn isle i suppose, it just seems like a waste of effort and space

depends

thorn isle Mar 21, 2026, 3:51 PM

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but it's the way everyone does it so i guess most people are going to end up doing it like that

covert stump Mar 21, 2026, 3:51 PM

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it only takes 1 hour

thorn isle Mar 21, 2026, 3:52 PM

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in other news

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is modrinth down again

quaint basin Mar 21, 2026, 3:53 PM

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thorn isle i had this case where a player was asking "why is my balance not going up when i...

How often did you update the balance?

thorn isle Mar 21, 2026, 3:53 PM

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i mean the issue was that the number they were looking at ($200) wasn't their balance, but the quest reward

quaint basin Mar 21, 2026, 3:53 PM

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oh

thorn isle Mar 21, 2026, 3:53 PM

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they were so conditioned to "sidebar shows my money" that they completely disregarded the parts that read QUEST and "do this and that" and "rewards" and only saw the $200

covert stump Mar 21, 2026, 3:54 PM

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thorn isle but it's the way everyone does it so i guess most people are going to end up doi...

yeah like everyone calls photocopy a xerox

thorn isle Mar 21, 2026, 3:56 PM

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so i have this slight and ambient animosity towards servers and people using sidebars for this decorative useless stuff, because it's trained my new players to not look at the best quest-tracking hud in the game that i did spent a decent bit of effort on

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just like ads

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therefore i give your screenshots -10000 points

quaint basin Mar 21, 2026, 4:02 PM

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https://imgur.com/a/dhXQ5Gj The alignment problem also occurs with the default font

thorn isle Mar 21, 2026, 4:03 PM

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myeah, you'll want to create your own monospaced font with the glyphs of your choice in it

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or do padding, but that's a bit unreliable if the player's resourcepack overrides the default font

quaint basin Mar 21, 2026, 4:04 PM

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I don't think anyone cares about that

orchid gazelle Mar 21, 2026, 4:31 PM

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yes

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well they need to be processed individually though

thorn isle Mar 21, 2026, 4:33 PM

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basically what emily said

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tons of things are clientside and bound to packets and events that aren't strictly for sounds

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e.g. the block break effect which fires the breaking particles will also fire a sound, you can't cancel just the sound part without cancelling also the particles part

covert stump Mar 21, 2026, 4:34 PM

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orchid gazelle well they need to be processed individually though

u can override sounds

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not delete them

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in sounds.json

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Not ideal but its the only way to affect client-side sounds

thorn isle Mar 21, 2026, 4:35 PM

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that could maybe work; then add your own matching sounds in the pack and have them play manually

orchid gazelle Mar 21, 2026, 4:37 PM

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covert stump Not ideal but its the only way to affect client-side sounds

you mean in resourcepack?

covert stump Mar 21, 2026, 4:38 PM

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orchid gazelle you mean in resourcepack?

yeah

orchid gazelle Mar 21, 2026, 4:38 PM

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well but I need to modify the sounds dependant on server-side information

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so static modifications don't fit for me

covert stump Mar 21, 2026, 4:38 PM

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Minecraft has 3 different packets for playing sounds...

thorn isle Mar 21, 2026, 4:38 PM

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thorn isle that could maybe work; then add your own matching sounds in the pack and have th...

do this

covert stump Mar 21, 2026, 4:39 PM

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covert stump Minecraft has 3 different packets for playing sounds...

u can modify most of minecraft sounds using it

thorn isle Mar 21, 2026, 4:39 PM

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basically blanket disable all sounds and then manually play only the sounds you want

orchid gazelle Mar 21, 2026, 4:39 PM

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covert stump u can modify most of minecraft sounds using it

I tried hooking those

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like half of the effects weren't affected

orchid gazelle Mar 21, 2026, 4:40 PM

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thorn isle basically blanket disable all sounds and then manually play only the sounds you ...

I want the sounds to be hearable, I am basically adjusting the volume of individual sounds based on some additional information

covert stump Mar 21, 2026, 4:40 PM

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orchid gazelle like half of the effects weren't affected

yeah because of what emily said

orchid gazelle Mar 21, 2026, 4:40 PM

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but all of the sounds may be affected

covert stump Mar 21, 2026, 4:40 PM

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The resource pack trick is really your only option for those remaining ones... ig

orchid gazelle Mar 21, 2026, 4:40 PM

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hjm ok

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thanks anyways

quaint basin Mar 21, 2026, 8:14 PM

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https://imgur.com/a/QboaPqG Isn't the logic backwards? From what I understand, if the sender has permission and sends a message with a click_action, then anyone who reads the message and clicks will execute that command. But if the admin has permission, shouldn't it be the other way around?

tender shard Mar 21, 2026, 9:31 PM

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quaint basin https://imgur.com/a/QboaPqG Isn't the logic backwards? From what I understand, ...

wdym? It says "allowByDefault", looks good to me. Except for the fact that permissions already have "by default" builtin

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oh now I see it. Yeah it's indeed inversed

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The inside of the if/else blocks should be other way around, yes

quaint basin Mar 22, 2026, 10:54 AM

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tender shard wdym? It says "allowByDefault", looks good to me. Except for the fact that permi...

What I understood was that if the sender has a permission, when they send messages they cannot send click hovers, etc

tender shard Mar 22, 2026, 12:01 PM

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quaint basin What I understood was that if the sender has a permission, when they send messag...

exactly

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as a quick you could "reverse" the permission, e.g. give it to default group, and deny it for admin group

quaint basin Mar 22, 2026, 12:01 PM

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yea i see

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I changed to carbon chat

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the huskchat is no longer updated

tender shard Mar 22, 2026, 12:02 PM

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yeah all husk plugins are kinda dead, they're only held together by community PRs

quaint basin Mar 22, 2026, 12:02 PM

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tender shard yeah all husk plugins are kinda dead, they're only held together by community PR...

I'm using husk homes and husk sync

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they are good right?

tender shard Mar 22, 2026, 12:03 PM

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quaint basin they are good right?

Not really. HuskSync used to crash our farmworlds once in a time until I submitted a PR. map sync is also still broken, I'll make a PR for that soon

quaint basin Mar 22, 2026, 12:03 PM

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shit

tender shard Mar 22, 2026, 12:03 PM

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Oh and attributes like max health are also not properly synced, I got an open PR about that

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HuskHomes idk, never used it

quaint basin Mar 22, 2026, 12:03 PM

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Do you think that synchronizing them isn't the best approach?

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Or they just made a mistake

tender shard Mar 22, 2026, 12:04 PM

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They should definitely be synced, it's just that the implementation was bad

quaint basin Mar 22, 2026, 12:04 PM

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But I mean, the way they synchronize data between servers, do you think that's a good approach?

tender shard Mar 22, 2026, 12:04 PM

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https://github.com/WiIIiam278/HuskSync/pull/650
oh looks like it got merged, nice

GitHub

Fix health / maxhealth gone after server switch by mfnalex · Pull ...

Fixes #577

quaint basin Mar 22, 2026, 12:05 PM

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tender shard Not really. HuskSync used to crash our farmworlds once in a time until I submitt...

Please do this 🙏

tender shard Mar 22, 2026, 12:05 PM

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and this .https://github.com/WiIIiam278/HuskSync/pull/578

GitHub

Ensure attributes are accessed on main thread only by mfnalex · Pu...

Fixes #576

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That one got us random server crashes once in a while

quaint basin Mar 22, 2026, 12:05 PM

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dupes 😯

tender shard Mar 22, 2026, 12:05 PM

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quaint basin Please do this 🙏

yeah I'll do that on monday I guess

quaint basin Mar 22, 2026, 12:06 PM

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alr thanks

tender shard Mar 22, 2026, 12:06 PM

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quaint basin dupes 😯

dupes seem to have been fixed by someone else's PR

quaint basin Mar 22, 2026, 12:06 PM

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But the approach they use to synchronize data between servers, do you think they do it well?

tender shard Mar 22, 2026, 12:06 PM

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This is the PR that fixed dupe bugs https://github.com/WiIIiam278/HuskSync/pull/614

GitHub

fix: prevent premature DATA_CHECKOUT release in CHECK_IN_PETITION b...

I've investigated the issue #585 and identified the potential cause.
Potential Cause
The CHECK_IN_PETITION handler in RedisManager.onMessage() releases DATA_CHECKOUT prematurely , even tho...

tender shard Mar 22, 2026, 12:07 PM

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quaint basin But the approach they use to synchronize data between servers, do you think they...

yeah in general it's a good plugin

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the only issue is that important issues kinda stay ignored for months until somebody else fixes them

quaint basin Mar 22, 2026, 12:07 PM

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i see

smoky oak Mar 22, 2026, 12:56 PM

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qq if i store data in a shulkerbox pdc, does it get transmitted to any player opening it/picking it up?

mortal hare Mar 22, 2026, 1:31 PM

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is this a bug

young knoll Mar 22, 2026, 1:31 PM

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I don't think it'll automatically transfer to the block when placed

mortal hare Mar 22, 2026, 1:31 PM

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Type parameter is being used within permitted classes

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so why its being flagged as not used

smoky oak Mar 22, 2026, 1:31 PM

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young knoll I don't think it'll automatically transfer to the block when placed

tested this a while ago; duplicated itself somehow

mortal hare Mar 22, 2026, 1:31 PM

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its used for switch pattern matching

ivory sleet Mar 22, 2026, 2:21 PM

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mortal hare is this a bug

na just means it isnt used in said class anywhere (and u could hypothetically be able to omit it and just define type constructors on the subtypes)

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been a thing for a very long time

mortal hare Mar 22, 2026, 3:43 PM

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and u could hypothetically be able to omit it and just define type constructors on the subtypes
wdym? if you omit it, then you cant pattern match against generic type parameters

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      final var result = Password.fromString("dovidas");
      if (result instanceof ValidationSuccessResult<Password, CharSequence> success) {
        success.value()
      }

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this wont work if you omit generic params from the result class

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and if you add them it allows even if they're different classes (i guess sealed classes infer that information, very neat)

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its kinda misleading that those parameters are greyed out even if they're kinda used by classes

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i love this feature

thorn isle Mar 22, 2026, 3:54 PM

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your example would be much better if you didn't use var here

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since it completely depends on result being of a type with type parameters A and B, and your switch case pattern having a type that extends that type with matching type parameters

thorn isle Mar 22, 2026, 3:56 PM

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mortal hare and if you add them it allows even if they're different classes (i guess sealed ...

it's not about sealed classes specifically, this works with any class hierarchy with passed-down type parameters

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e.g. it's safe to cast Collection<String> to List<String>

mortal hare Mar 22, 2026, 3:57 PM

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actually i can omit generic type parameters if i use destructuring of record

      final var result = Password.fromString("dovidas");
      if (result instanceof ValidationSuccessResult(Password password)) {
        System.out.println(password.asString());
      } else {
        System.out.println(result);
      }

thorn isle Mar 22, 2026, 3:57 PM

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because List<T> extends Collection<T>

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meaning the type parameter can already be inferred from the type you're casting

mortal hare Mar 22, 2026, 3:58 PM

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arent generic type parameters erased at runtime?

thorn isle Mar 22, 2026, 3:58 PM

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yes, but this is a compile time check

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the compiler sees you have a Collection<T>

mortal hare Mar 22, 2026, 3:59 PM

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sometimes this might not work though, especially with upcasting

thorn isle Mar 22, 2026, 3:59 PM

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and it sees that List<T> extends Collection<T>

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and it sees that the T's are the same

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and therefore it decides that since T is already known at compile time and the bounds are the same, it boils down to just a regular runtime cast where the type parameter can be ignored

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it's still "unsafe" and "unchecked" in the sense that if you use evil hacks to put an Integer in your Collection<String>, it won't throw a classcast exception when you try casting the collection to List<String>

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but that's just how all typed shit works

mortal hare Mar 22, 2026, 4:04 PM

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i think i changed my mind about lombok tbh

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maybe its kinda ok to use it, since then you dont have to worry of breaking something later on with getters or object equality

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less code = stable code

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iguess

ivory sleet Mar 22, 2026, 4:20 PM

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mortal hare > and u could hypothetically be able to omit it and just define type constructor...

because historically we didn't really program against a DOP approach, but yes for phantom types its fine

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there are certain annot libs that u ideally wna use to annotate said type params to communicate its a phantom type
(that will also make that warning go away)

ivory sleet Mar 22, 2026, 4:36 PM

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mortal hare

but also you may be able to at runtime verify and/or perform casts on type constructions before that instanceof branch depending on how fromString is type parameterized

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<Password,CharSequence>fromString(...) for example

mortal hare Mar 22, 2026, 5:34 PM

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pov i just realized you can have format on save on intellij

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i missed that from vscode

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nice to see that intellij has it

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it would be nice if it would arrange annotations too

lilac dagger Mar 22, 2026, 5:39 PM

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maybe the format code options are in a separate place

chrome beacon Mar 22, 2026, 5:40 PM

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IJ does have a lot of format options

mortal hare Mar 22, 2026, 5:58 PM

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is it just me or intellij doesnt seem to work properly with github organizations

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i get push errors

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but when i use CLI it works flawlessly

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https://tenor.com/view/joe-biden-presidential-debate-huh-confused-gif-9508832355999336631

Tenor

thorn isle Mar 22, 2026, 6:00 PM

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works fine for me

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do you have your auth token and whatever set up

mortal hare Mar 22, 2026, 6:00 PM

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i just use https

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i hate setting up ssh keys or api tokens

thorn isle Mar 22, 2026, 6:01 PM

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repository not found
means either it doesn't exist or you don't have access to it

mortal hare Mar 22, 2026, 6:01 PM

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yea but why does cli work

thorn isle Mar 22, 2026, 6:01 PM

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you've set up auth for it

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you need to configure a token into intellj itself in the "github users" section

mortal hare Mar 22, 2026, 6:01 PM

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shouldnt it it just default git credential manager

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for this

thorn isle Mar 22, 2026, 6:02 PM

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dunno, i don't think it does

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it's always asked for either login credentials or a token for me

tender shard Mar 22, 2026, 6:21 PM

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mortal hare i hate setting up ssh keys or api tokens

you just generate them once and then that's it lol

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ubuntu@sigma:~/ansible$ cat ssh_keys.yml 
---
- name: Manage SSH authorized_keys
  hosts: all
  become: true
  gather_facts: false

  vars_files:
    - group_vars/all/ssh_access.yml

  tasks:

    - name: system -> ubuntu @ all
      ansible.builtin.authorized_key:
        user: ubuntu
        key: "{{ item }}"
        state: present
        manage_dir: true
      loop: "{{ ssh_access.system | default([]) }}"

    - name: system -> mc @ mc
      ansible.builtin.authorized_key:
        user: mc
        key: "{{ item }}"
        state: present
        manage_dir: true
      loop: "{{ ssh_access.system | default([]) }}"
      when: "'mc' in group_names"

    - name: admin -> ubuntu @ all
      ansible.builtin.authorized_key:
        user: ubuntu
        key: "{{ item }}"
        state: present
        manage_dir: true
      loop: "{{ ssh_access.admin | default([]) }}"

    - name: admin -> mc @ mc
      ansible.builtin.authorized_key:
        user: mc
        key: "{{ item }}"
        state: present
        manage_dir: true
      loop: "{{ ssh_access.admin | default([]) }}"
      when: "'mc' in group_names"

    - name: operator -> mc @ mc
      ansible.builtin.authorized_key:
        user: mc
        key: "{{ item }}"
        state: present
        manage_dir: true
      loop: "{{ ssh_access.operator | default([]) }}"
      when: "'mc' in group_names"

    - name: dev -> mc @ dev
      ansible.builtin.authorized_key:
        user: mc
        key: "{{ item }}"
        state: present
        manage_dir: true
      loop: "{{ ssh_access.dev | default([]) }}"
      when: "'dev' in group_names"
ubuntu@sigma:~/ansible$

not the most perfekt playbook, but better than nothing

lilac dagger Mar 22, 2026, 7:57 PM

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looks like github's workflow config

sullen marlin Mar 22, 2026, 8:18 PM

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Looks painful is what it looks like

mortal hare Mar 23, 2026, 2:31 AM

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ah yes

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java' ahhh gui

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we're speedrunning epilepsy seizures with this one

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this is why we need native wayland support on Java

dreamy glade Mar 23, 2026, 5:38 AM

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Hi, what event do I need to hook to track arrow entity movement (shot by player)? There is EntityMoveEvent but I think it only track LivingEntity which arrow is not. Thanks

mortal vortex Mar 23, 2026, 6:11 AM

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I think u would need a runnable

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in conjuncture with ProjectileLaunchEvent

violet wave Mar 23, 2026, 8:31 AM

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Will spigot be ditching it's custom names/mappings in favor of mojang names for 26.1?
I really hope so. It'll make developing for Paper & Spigot much easier if they are both using the same NMS names.

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 9:42 AM

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When I type /rtp, I'm teleported to a pre-generated chunk, but the processor usage jumps to 30%. Aren't those values high? My CPU is an i5-13500

covert stump Mar 23, 2026, 9:46 AM

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quaint basin When I type /rtp, I'm teleported to a pre-generated chunk, but the processor usa...

how many attempts

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to /rtp

chrome beacon Mar 23, 2026, 10:06 AM

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quaint basin When I type /rtp, I'm teleported to a pre-generated chunk, but the processor usa...

Running the client on that pc too?

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Also how are you measuring that

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Like you really should take a look at timings instead

wet breach Mar 23, 2026, 10:52 AM

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quaint basin When I type /rtp, I'm teleported to a pre-generated chunk, but the processor usa...

30% of one core?

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you do realize your cpu has 14 cores right?

young knoll Mar 23, 2026, 10:53 AM

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14? That’s an odd amount

wet breach Mar 23, 2026, 10:53 AM

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6 performant cores and 8 efficient cores

remote swallow Mar 23, 2026, 10:53 AM

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i was about to say, im guessing its P and E cores

young knoll Mar 23, 2026, 10:55 AM

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Too futuristic for me

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Mine just has 4 cores

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(And 8 threads)

wet breach Mar 23, 2026, 10:56 AM

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I have 8 cores and 16 threads

young knoll Mar 23, 2026, 10:58 AM

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I’m pretty sure a modern cpu with a single core would beat mine

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But shh

vagrant stratus Mar 23, 2026, 11:10 AM

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wassup nerrrds

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 12:55 PM

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quaint basin When I type /rtp, I'm teleported to a pre-generated chunk, but the processor usa...

this is normal, chunk loading is also very expensive

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if you want more details, profile it with spark

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"cpu goes up" is not a very good benchmark of anything

wet breach Mar 23, 2026, 1:03 PM

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thorn isle "cpu goes up" is not a very good benchmark of anything

indeed, considering cpu goes up when anything is processing

young knoll Mar 23, 2026, 1:52 PM

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Plus, is the entire area pregenerated or only the single chunk you teleport into?

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Otherwise the game still needs to generate chunks around it up to the view distance

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 1:54 PM

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from what we talked last time, the idea is to pregenerate the whole area up to like 8 chunks away or so

young knoll Mar 23, 2026, 1:54 PM

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Well, is the view distance > 8 :p

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 1:55 PM

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could be, iirc he has some kind of per-player viewdistance thing where it could be arbitrarily far for some players, and we ended up at 8 chunks being a good compromise between overpreparation and being prepared enough

young knoll Mar 23, 2026, 1:56 PM

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Clearly we need chunky but it slowly pre-generates the world as people play

covert stump Mar 23, 2026, 2:04 PM

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thorn isle "cpu goes up" is not a very good benchmark of anything

yeah

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 3:18 PM

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chrome beacon Running the client on that pc too?

no. the client is on my pc

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and the server is on my dedicated server

lilac dagger Mar 23, 2026, 3:18 PM

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am i blind? i can't seem to see the protocol for older versions https://minecraft.wiki/w/Java_Edition_protocol

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 3:18 PM

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covert stump how many attempts

just 1

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 3:19 PM

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young knoll I’m pretty sure a modern cpu with a single core would beat mine

i5-13500 have a very good single core performance

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the single core performance is better than i9-9900k for example

lilac dagger Mar 23, 2026, 3:19 PM

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https://minecraft.wiki/w/Minecraft_Wiki:Projects/wiki.vg_merge/Protocol_History is this everything?

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 3:19 PM

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and its the same price

covert stump Mar 23, 2026, 3:20 PM

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quaint basin just 1

no

covert stump Mar 23, 2026, 3:21 PM

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quaint basin i5-13500 have a very good single core performance

yeah prolly its i5-13500HX or H

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 3:21 PM

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covert stump yeah prolly its i5-13500HX or H

https://www.hetzner.com/dedicated-rootserver/ex44/

covert stump Mar 23, 2026, 3:22 PM

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quaint basin just 1

Im asking how many attempts it takes for plugin

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what is max attempt set

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u can see in config

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 3:22 PM

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wdym attempts

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The locations are in a buffer

young knoll Mar 23, 2026, 3:23 PM

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13000 series cpus? Pfft

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 3:23 PM

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thorn isle from what we talked last time, the idea is to pregenerate the whole area up to l...

view-distance is 10

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 3:23 PM

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young knoll 13000 series cpus? Pfft

is this bad?

covert stump Mar 23, 2026, 3:23 PM

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quaint basin is this bad?

covert stump Mar 23, 2026, 3:23 PM

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quaint basin is this bad?

nah its latest..

young knoll Mar 23, 2026, 3:23 PM

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They made their own rtp with pre cached locations

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So it doesn’t need multiple attempts

covert stump Mar 23, 2026, 3:24 PM

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young knoll They made their own rtp with pre cached locations

oh isee

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didnt saw propely then

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 3:24 PM

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covert stump

The RTP plugin is mine. The plugin checks at each tick if the buffer size has space for a location (by default the buffer stores 100 valid locations) - in this case, since the buffer is full, the overhead of the /rtp I'm talking about is only to load chunks and perhaps generate chunks to fill the buffer since it was emptied (generate partially because the generation is not done completely)

#

MSPT also went up to 41.9

covert stump Mar 23, 2026, 3:27 PM

#

uhmm..

young knoll Mar 23, 2026, 3:29 PM

#

I mean it’ll still have to generate extra chunks up to the view distance of 10

covert stump Mar 23, 2026, 3:29 PM

#

If you load chunks on the main thread it will always spike your CPU... Push it to the background threads...

young knoll Mar 23, 2026, 3:29 PM

#

Plus it has to load all the chunks

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 3:29 PM

#

young knoll I mean it’ll still have to generate extra chunks up to the view distance of 10

yea

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 3:29 PM

#

covert stump If you load chunks on the main thread it will always spike your CPU... Push it t...

This is inevitable

young knoll Mar 23, 2026, 3:29 PM

#

You could pregen the extra 2 chunk radius and see if it makes much difference

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 3:30 PM

#

What you can do is load chunks async, but the loading is still done on the main thread

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 3:30 PM

#

young knoll You could pregen the extra 2 chunk radius and see if it makes much difference

alr i'll test

young knoll Mar 23, 2026, 3:30 PM

#

Though seeing as the mspt stays below 50 it seems to be doing fine

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 3:30 PM

#

young knoll Though seeing as the mspt stays below 50 it seems to be doing fine

But 40 is close to 50

covert stump Mar 23, 2026, 3:31 PM

#

quaint basin This is inevitable

uhm

#

not?

#

If you are using Paper..

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 3:31 PM

#

Do you have a spark profile

#

Anything else is useless guesswork

covert stump Mar 23, 2026, 3:32 PM

#

you use world.getChunkAtAsync() to handle the chunk loading and generation for your buffer on the worker threads....

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 3:32 PM

#

thorn isle Anything else is useless guesswork

How can I do this with Spark? Do I type spark profiler stop right after typing /rtp just once?

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 3:32 PM

#

covert stump you use ```world.getChunkAtAsync()``` to handle the chunk loading and generation...

Chunk loading is still done on the main thread no?

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 3:32 PM

#

Start it (on all threads) rtp, stop it, link the report here

young knoll Mar 23, 2026, 3:33 PM

#

I think moonrise can load chunks fully async

#

Don’t quote me on that though

#

(Moonrise is the chunk system paper uses)

covert stump Mar 23, 2026, 3:33 PM

#

quaint basin Chunk loading is still done on the main thread no?

no

#

In modern PaperMC...the heavy computing for chunk generation (terrain math) and chunk loading (reading from disk) happens on background worker threads...

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 3:34 PM

#

thorn isle Start it (on all threads) rtp, stop it, link the report here

wdym on all threads? how can i do that?

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 3:34 PM

#

--thread *

#

And set the sample interval to like 0.1

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 3:34 PM

#

covert stump In modern PaperMC...the heavy computing for chunk generation (terrain math) and ...

I use getChunkAtChunk and even then the mspt goes up to 40

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 3:34 PM

#

The default 5ms interval is useless

young knoll Mar 23, 2026, 3:35 PM

#

I mean, it’s below 50 so it really doesn’t matter

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 3:35 PM

#

Things add up

#

The whole point of pregen is to have fewer things add up at runtime

young knoll Mar 23, 2026, 3:35 PM

#

You load the single chunk you are teleporting to async, and the scheduler likely handles loading the rest while trying to keep the mspt under 50

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 3:35 PM

#

You don't want your baseline at 0 players be 40mspt

young knoll Mar 23, 2026, 3:36 PM

#

I mean, the game suddenly has to load what, 400 chunks

covert stump Mar 23, 2026, 3:36 PM

#

quaint basin I use getChunkAtChunk and even then the mspt goes up to 40

ur using .get() or .join() right after calling the chunk?

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 3:37 PM

#

Let's see a spark profile, anything without a profiler report is useless guesswork

#

If there is a sync load or if the scheduler is working as intended, the report will reveal all

young knoll Mar 23, 2026, 3:37 PM

#

If you see the mspt spike over 50 then I’d be concerned, but it getting close to 50 likely means the chunk system is using as much extra time as it can each tick without dropping the tps

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 3:38 PM

#

covert stump ur using .get() or .join() right after calling the chunk?

No. I'm not doing that

#

i'll do the spark profile

young knoll Mar 23, 2026, 3:39 PM

#

It’s a shame vanilla can’t do fully async generation and loading

#

It shouldn’t be too hard to do all the work on separate threads and then just push the final chunk into the chunk map

covert stump Mar 23, 2026, 3:40 PM

#

quaint basin No. I'm not doing that

Spark profile is def good here.. let us know what profile shows

#

lol.. If two background threads try to update the exact same chunk border at the exact same millisecon.. the server crashes

#

true multithreading projects like folia took years....

young knoll Mar 23, 2026, 3:43 PM

#

That’s for ticking though

#

Just loading should be simpler

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 3:48 PM

#

https://spark.lucko.me/sY9OB84dZ9 /spark profiler start --thread * --interval 0.1

#

I did it this way. The MSPT is high because it was during server initialization

#

I typed that command after server had finished initialization, but for some reason the startup mspt appears

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 3:50 PM

#

Wait for a while forthe jit and other shit to warm up

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 3:50 PM

#

I had waited for the MSPT to went down and the CPU usage to drop to 0%, but yes, I'll do it again

#

It still hasn't gone down xd

#

https://spark.lucko.me/CnJOytFPLh

#

MSPT went up to 100 this time

covert stump Mar 23, 2026, 3:53 PM

#

use.. /spark profiler start --clear then /rtp then immediately /spark profiler stop

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 3:53 PM

#

can I do that? /spark profiler start --thread * --interval 0.1 --clear

covert stump Mar 23, 2026, 3:55 PM

#

quaint basin can I do that? /spark profiler start --thread * --interval 0.1 --clear

go with /spark profiler start --clear

lilac dagger Mar 23, 2026, 3:55 PM

#

can't wait to test this out 😄

covert stump Mar 23, 2026, 3:55 PM

#

covert stump go with /spark profiler start --clear

the main thread is 100% getting blocked ig.

#

Int Spark link, open up the Server thread drop down and just follow the highest percentagas

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 3:58 PM

#

covert stump go with /spark profiler start --clear

MSPT is still at 105, but now it has increased to 33 https://spark.lucko.me/WHTUhHt7cW

#

and CPU usage went up to 20% (it was previously at 0%)

#

Sometimes CPU usage goes up to 30%, and MSPT once went up to 105, as I showed in the other Spark profile

covert stump Mar 23, 2026, 4:01 PM

#

A spike to 105 MSPT means the main thread totally froze for over 2 ticks lol...

#

expand the Server thread at the top, and just follow the highest percentage numbers down the tree...

#

Its almost hasto be a method like getChunkAt() or similar loops or a block checking loop that is forcing the main thread to do the work..

slender elbow Mar 23, 2026, 4:04 PM

#

could also use the --ticks-over flag to only record the lagging ticks

chrome beacon Mar 23, 2026, 4:04 PM

#

^^

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 4:05 PM

#

covert stump Its almost hasto be a method like getChunkAt() or similar loops or a block check...

I'm not blocking getChunkAtAsync or anything

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 4:05 PM

#

slender elbow could also use the --ticks-over flag to only record the lagging ticks

Autocomplete doesn't have that

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 4:05 PM

#

quaint basin MSPT is still at 105, but now it has increased to 33 https://spark.lucko.me/WHTU...

this isn't with --thread *

#

this only shows the main thread

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 4:05 PM

#

thorn isle this isn't with --thread *

https://spark.lucko.me/CnJOytFPLh see this

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 4:06 PM

#

it's --only-ticks-over iirc

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 4:07 PM

#

slender elbow could also use the --ticks-over flag to only record the lagging ticks

https://spark.lucko.me/ZTdR4oVxlt i did /spark tps and just showed mspt on 30 (not on 103)

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 4:07 PM

#

the chunk task scheduler is taking 2.6ms per tick

#

that is acceptable

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 4:07 PM

#

thorn isle the chunk task scheduler is taking 2.6ms per tick

And why did the MSPT increased to 100?

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 4:08 PM

#

it didn't, not on average at least, that was a spike; there's no way to know whether it was related

#

if you're trying to profile mspt spikes, use the --only-ticks-over parameter

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 4:12 PM

#

thorn isle if you're trying to profile mspt *spikes*, use the --only-ticks-over parameter

just this paramter or with the other ones?

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 4:13 PM

#

with the other ones

lilac dagger Mar 23, 2026, 4:19 PM

#

am i impl this right?

#

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 4:24 PM

#

thorn isle with the other ones

https://spark.lucko.me/GZMhPXP0L9

#

only increased to 26 MSPT and 23% cpu usage

#

from what I have seen on /spark tps

#

but profile is sayying max MSPT is 86

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 4:28 PM

#

god only knows what it's doing

#

i think the numbers are just fucked

#

spark says the highest tick time was 80ms

#

and has recorded one tick exceeding the 25ms threshold

#

but for that one tick, it only has 9ms worth of samples for the main thread

#

either way, it doesn't seem to be directly caused by anything your plugin is doing; at worst it's the scheduler

#

let's see your rtp code again and see what you actually do when a player teleports; do you just player.teleportAsync?

chrome beacon Mar 23, 2026, 4:30 PM

#

I don't really think you're lagging

#

The server is probably running perfectly fine

#

The high tick can happen right after startup

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 4:31 PM

#

if he's doing what we're telling him to do, the profiler is only on for when he does /rtp specifically

#

so it wouldn't include startup ticks

orchid gazelle Mar 23, 2026, 4:31 PM

#

Guys

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 4:31 PM

#

and the server is of course running fine since from what i see it's a test server with like one player on

orchid gazelle Mar 23, 2026, 4:31 PM

#

What should I code?

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 4:32 PM

#

the question is whether this will make that 80mspt spike go up to 200mspt on a production server

buoyant viper Mar 23, 2026, 4:37 PM

#

lilac dagger am i impl this right?

have u considered fking around and finding out

#

alternative suggestion: look at the packet class in a Fabric or Forge decompiled project workspace

#

or Spigot even if ur working on the server

#

altho most if not all of those packets are shared code between platforms (client/server) iirc

lilac dagger Mar 23, 2026, 4:54 PM

#

i'll see if anything breaks

#

i'll try to get a player on the server

dry hazel Mar 23, 2026, 4:59 PM

#

looks close enough https://mcsrc.dev/1/1.21.11_unobfuscated/net/minecraft/network/protocol/handshake/ClientIntentionPacket

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 5:01 PM

#

thorn isle let's see your rtp code again and see what you actually do when a player telepor...

yes of course

#

1 second

#

https://pastes.dev/oZ4PMH4PZE

#

https://pastes.dev/h75KK0Egmy

lilac dagger Mar 23, 2026, 5:26 PM

#

dry hazel looks close enough https://mcsrc.dev/1/1.21.11_unobfuscated/net/minecraft/networ...

saving this website

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 5:37 PM

#

quaint basin https://pastes.dev/oZ4PMH4PZE

these are all for finding the rtp pos, no? where's the code that teleports you to it; that's what we're benchmarking here

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 5:38 PM

#

thorn isle these are all for finding the rtp pos, no? where's the code that teleports you t...

oh yes mybad

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 5:38 PM

#

thorn isle these are all for finding the rtp pos, no? where's the code that teleports you t...

https://pastes.dev/0tyXp2bEVx

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 5:41 PM

#

looks fine, it's pretty much just teleportAsync

#

what might be happening is the mspt spiking because there's a vacancy in the buffer and your rtp finding logic kicks in

#

to benchmark that you'll want to profile the buffer being populated over the course of a longer period of time than just a few ticks

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 5:42 PM

#

thorn isle to benchmark that you'll want to profile the buffer being populated over the cou...

Is it normal for CPU usage to increase to 30%?

#

I thought that would be cheap work for the i5-13500

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 5:43 PM

#

impossible to say

#

but if it really is the rtp finder logic, that will involve lots of world generation

#

which is very expensive

#

lots of very expensive things = higher cpu usage

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 5:44 PM

#

Even so, I have 12 cores. 30% of 12 cores is 3,6 cores

#

I don't know how I can benchmark buffer filling

#

Because what's probably causing the high mspt is getChunkAtAsync, etc., and it's not possible to know how long it takes to load the chunk

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 5:50 PM

#

you let it run without any stops and you spark profile it with --thread *

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 6:03 PM

#

quaint basin Even so, I have 12 cores. 30% of 12 cores is 3,6 cores

iirc the default chunkgen thread count is 4, so that checks out

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 6:18 PM

#

thorn isle iirc the default chunkgen thread count is 4, so that checks out

im with default config yea

#

What I find strange is that if I walk through a map that has never been generated before, the CPU usage stays at 20% and the MSPT at 25

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 6:22 PM

#

remember my pyramid example

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 6:22 PM

#

quaint basin What I find strange is that if I walk through a map that has never been generate...

on really mspt reach sometimes 100

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 6:22 PM

#

generating a bunch of locations faraway from already generated stuff is much more expensive than incrementally expanding an already generated area

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 6:23 PM

#

oh yea

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 6:24 PM

#

thorn isle iirc the default chunkgen thread count is 4, so that checks out

chunk-system:
io-threads: -1
worker-threads: -1

#

is this?

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 6:24 PM

#

maybe, i don't remember

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 6:25 PM

#

chunk-system: #
io-threads: -1#
Sets the number of threads to be used for read and write operations with chunks. If any value below zero is set, only one thread will be used.
worker-threads: -1#
Sets the number of threads to be used for parallel chunk generation. If a value below zero is set, the server will automatically determine the optimal number of threads based on the available physical CPU cores (not logical cores). For systems with 3 or fewer physical cores, only 1 thread will be used. In all other cases, the number of threads is capped at half of the physical cores.

#

This doesn't say what happens if I set it to -1. Maybe it's based on the physical cores

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 6:25 PM

#

-1 is the default

#

the number of threads is capped at half of the physical cores

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 6:26 PM

#

oh below zero

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 6:27 PM

#

thorn isle > the number of threads is capped at half of the physical cores

So the paper is showing 6 threads since I have 12 cores... maybe it would be better to use something like 3 threads

#

I think half is too much

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 6:28 PM

#

doesn't really matter if you have enough compute on your machine

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 6:29 PM

#

thorn isle doesn't really matter if you have enough compute on your machine

I want CPU for the other servers

high vessel Mar 23, 2026, 8:02 PM

#

Is someone really good at coding I need help with a plugin i've made

chrome beacon Mar 23, 2026, 8:08 PM

#

?ask

undone axleBOT Mar 23, 2026, 8:08 PM

#

If you have a question, please just ask it. Don't look for staff or topic experts. Don't ask to ask or ask if people are awake or available. Just ask the question to the channel straight out, and wait patiently for a reply. Make sure you use the right channel regarding the topic of your question. Create a thread in case the channel is already in use!

buoyant viper Mar 23, 2026, 8:20 PM

#

high vessel Is someone really good at coding I need help with a plugin i've made

oh yeah, 100%, im totally the greatest

#

for legal reasons- dont quote me on that

high vessel Mar 23, 2026, 8:21 PM

#

chrome beacon ?ask

I can't just tell the exact problemo, because it's an private plugin i've been working on since days and I just need help with an bug I can't get away

random grove Mar 23, 2026, 8:23 PM

#

If I have a registered event handler for BlockBreakEvent, and call player.breakBlock(block), will the event handler finish executing before player.breakBlock(block); finishes?

Also, can multiple BlockBreakEvents be fired when I call player.breakBlock(block) in the case of a player breaking a cactus or scaffolding, where there is a cascading effect?

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 8:23 PM

#

yes and yes

random grove Mar 23, 2026, 8:23 PM

#

thank you

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 8:24 PM

#

however i'm not certain if that happens with cactus specifically

#

some plants break a tick later

#

others break instantly

#

or cactus, i'd tryitandsee

random grove Mar 23, 2026, 8:24 PM

#

I see

#

Okay, thanks

random grove Mar 23, 2026, 8:33 PM

#

thorn isle others break instantly

For the ones that break instantly, will the cascading BlockBreakEvents be cancelled if the source/triggering BlockBreakEvent is cancelled?

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 8:35 PM

#

they won't fire to begin with if you cancel the initial blockbreakevent, as the "side effects" are calculated after the event completes

chrome beacon Mar 23, 2026, 8:36 PM

#

high vessel I can't just tell the exact problemo, because it's an private plugin i've been w...

If you can't tell us the problem... how are we going to help you

random grove Mar 23, 2026, 8:36 PM

#

thorn isle they won't fire to begin with if you cancel the initial blockbreakevent, as the ...

that makes sense, thank you

high vessel Mar 23, 2026, 8:37 PM

#

chrome beacon If you can't tell us the problem... how are we going to help you

I can tell the problem in dm, because here it would be too much and complex to explain

chrome beacon Mar 23, 2026, 8:37 PM

#

I mean it would be the same amount of info to explain here and in dm

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 8:38 PM

#

i don't know if anybody here is particularly interested in doing stuff in dm's

chrome beacon Mar 23, 2026, 8:38 PM

#

You're likely going to get better help from multiple people by just asking here

rough ibex Mar 23, 2026, 8:39 PM

#

I don't think anyone is going to try and steal this genius award-winning private plugin idea if it's so coveted

chrome beacon Mar 23, 2026, 8:39 PM

#

^

vagrant stratus Mar 23, 2026, 8:39 PM

#

We're devs. We can just join the server for like a few minutes and go off that

#

your code is useless to us lol

sullen marlin Mar 23, 2026, 8:41 PM

#

https://tenor.com/view/meu-gif-27420939

Tenor

#

Us stealing their genius award-winning private plugin idea

vagrant stratus Mar 23, 2026, 8:43 PM

#

^ Can almost guarantee their idea was already done too lol

lilac dagger Mar 23, 2026, 8:54 PM

#

question, how do you check the content length of a packet?

#

i use this approach

#

i put it into a temp bytebuffer and read the bytes, send that and then append buffer to out

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 9:00 PM

#

unless you have a way to calculate it ahead of time, this is an alright way of doing it

lilac dagger Mar 23, 2026, 9:00 PM

#

true

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 9:00 PM

#

a hack i like to do is write 5 zero bytes to the buffer where the length varint is going to be, then write the contents, and then go back and write the varint over those 5 bytes

brittle star Mar 23, 2026, 9:12 PM

#

hello, i need a free minecraft config developer for my minecraft server. i am searching since 2 months now and i really need help. if anyone can help me please contact me

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 9:38 PM

#

lol

quaint basin Mar 23, 2026, 10:22 PM

#

ARNING: A terminally deprecated method in sun.misc.Unsafe has been called
WARNING: sun.misc.Unsafe::objectFieldOffset has been called by com.google.common.util.concurrent.Abs
tractFuture$UnsafeAtomicHelper (file:/root/minecraft/proxy/velocity.jar)
WARNING: Please consider reporting this to the maintainers of class com.google.common.util.concurren
t.AbstractFuture$UnsafeAtomicHelper
WARNING: sun.misc.Unsafe::objectFieldOffset will be removed in a future release

#

how can I fix this?

#

I'm using java 25

buoyant viper Mar 23, 2026, 10:33 PM

#

velocity

#

?whereami

undone axleBOT Mar 23, 2026, 10:34 PM

#

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/864180468680360027/944415049462714469/whereami.mp4

▶ Play video

buoyant viper Mar 23, 2026, 10:34 PM

#

quaint basin how can I fix this?

its just a warning, u can ignore it for now

lilac dagger Mar 23, 2026, 10:38 PM

#

this graph confuses me

young knoll Mar 23, 2026, 10:42 PM

#

What makes it terminally deprecated

lilac dagger Mar 23, 2026, 10:43 PM

#

i'm gonna assume:
length of compressed
length of decompressed
packet id
packet data

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 10:52 PM

#

the first varint is the length of the packet on the wire

#

the second varint is the length of the uncompressed packet data

lilac dagger Mar 23, 2026, 10:53 PM

#

so like i said

#

and apply compress/decompress if size of the compressed is bigger than the threshold i have from a previous packet sent by the server

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 10:54 PM

#

apply decompression if the second number != 0

lilac dagger Mar 23, 2026, 10:54 PM

#

hm?

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 10:54 PM

#

see the last column of the 5th row

#

0 to indicate uncompressed

#

second number is 0 iff the data is not compressed

lilac dagger Mar 23, 2026, 10:55 PM

#

yeah so instead of decompressed length no?

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 10:55 PM

#

if it's compressed, then the second number is the uncompressed length

lilac dagger Mar 23, 2026, 10:55 PM

#

oh so it's that way

#

hmm i see

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 10:56 PM

#

the first number is used to determine how much to read from the wire

lilac dagger Mar 23, 2026, 10:56 PM

#

yeah that i got

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 10:56 PM

#

the second number is used to determine how large of a buffer needs to get allocated for the uncompressed data; if it's zero, the first number is used instead

#

well, minus 1 byte since the 0 data length varint isn't part of it

lilac dagger Mar 23, 2026, 11:17 PM

#

is the uncompressed length varint compressed too?

#

it doesn't feel like it at least

#

i think i get it

#

they drew the line wrong

#

these 2 always are uncompressed and trigger for both sizes

#

okay, i'm done

#

time to test

#

nope

#

something is wrong

#

i think the first varint can become 0

#

no it's correct

thorn isle Mar 23, 2026, 11:45 PM

#

lilac dagger is the uncompressed length varint compressed too?

it can't be because you don't know whether the data is compressed or not until you read it, so you can only assume it to be uncompressed

#

all bytes following the second number are going to be compressed iff the second number != 0

#

otherwise, they're all uncompressed

lilac dagger Mar 23, 2026, 11:47 PM

#

yeah makes sense

#

okay got compression going 😄

wet breach Mar 24, 2026, 8:46 AM

#

lilac dagger question, how do you check the content length of a packet?

import java.io.*;
import java.net.Socket;
import java.nio.ByteBuffer;
import java.util.Arrays;

public class TcpReceiver {
    public static byte[] receiveData(Socket socket) throws IOException {
        InputStream is = socket.getInputStream();

        // 1. Read the 4-byte length header
        byte[] lengthBytes = new byte[4];
        int bytesRead = is.read(lengthBytes);
        if (bytesRead != 4) {
            // Handle error: unexpected stream termination
            throw new IOException("Failed to read complete length header");
        }

        // 2. Convert the byte array to an integer to get the expected payload size
        int expectedLength = ByteBuffer.wrap(lengthBytes).getInt();

        // 3. Read the rest of the data into a buffer
        byte[] data = new byte[expectedLength];
        int totalBytesRead = 0;
        while (totalBytesRead < expectedLength) {
            bytesRead = is.read(data, totalBytesRead, expectedLength - totalBytesRead);
            if (bytesRead == -1) {
                // Handle error: stream ended prematurely
                throw new IOException("Stream ended before all data was received");
            }
            totalBytesRead += bytesRead;
        }

        return data;
    }
}

this assumes the packet follows the typical standard of putting the length of data in the beginning of the packet

buoyant viper Mar 24, 2026, 9:09 AM

#

wet breach ```java import java.io.*; import java.net.Socket; import java.nio.ByteBuffer; im...

ik that's for fr33style, but it's insightful for a project i had also began with networking, thanks

molten hearth Mar 24, 2026, 9:10 AM

#

lilac dagger this graph confuses me

well this could've been a gelah instead of a table tbf

wet breach Mar 24, 2026, 9:10 AM

#

buoyant viper ik that's for fr33style, but it's insightful for a project i had also began with...

at least it helped someone lol

#

one of the things I like about Java is handling packets is quite easy

buoyant viper Mar 24, 2026, 9:11 AM

#

convinced me that i should, in fact, probably append my packets data length to its header spec

wet breach Mar 24, 2026, 9:12 AM

#

buoyant viper convinced me that i should, in fact, probably append my packets data length to i...

import java.net.DatagramPacket;
import java.net.DatagramSocket;
import java.io.IOException;

public class UdpReceiver {
    public static void main(String[] args) {
        try {
            DatagramSocket ds = new DatagramSocket(12345); // Listen on port 12345
            byte[] buffer = new byte[1024]; // Pre-allocate a buffer
            DatagramPacket packet = new DatagramPacket(buffer, buffer.length);

            ds.receive(packet); // This method blocks until a packet is received

            // Get the actual length of the received data
            int actualLength = packet.getLength();
            System.out.println("Received packet length: " + actualLength + " bytes");

            // Access the actual data using the offset and length
            byte[] actualData = new byte[actualLength];
            System.arraycopy(packet.getData(), packet.getOffset(), actualData, 0, actualLength);
            
            // Note: A simpler way to get the data as a new array is:
            // byte[] actualData = Arrays.copyOf(packet.getData(), packet.getLength());


            ds.close();
        } catch (IOException e) {
            e.printStackTrace();
        }
    }
}

Here is for UDP to compliment the TCP version

buoyant viper Mar 24, 2026, 9:12 AM

#

now howd you know i was working with UDP 🤨

#

im still at the spec-ing stage really so and dealing with the potential for adding packet fragmentation to allow for larger transfers of data

#

and peer management

#

kinda just recreating ENet i guess but worse

wet breach Mar 24, 2026, 9:14 AM

#

don't worry about packet fragmentation. Just worry about the size of what a packet could be and try to fit your data in that. network stuff will handle fragmenting packets automatically

#

1500 bytes is typically the standard on most networking equipment before it will start chopping packets automatically

buoyant viper Mar 24, 2026, 9:15 AM

#

yes, for now im making sure that i dont cross like a 1024 byte threshold on the arbitrary data length, and the header is only a few more bytes rn

#

so staying well under 1500mtu

wet breach Mar 24, 2026, 9:16 AM

#

this is where compression comes in handy, because if you are at 1600 bytes you could use compression to bring it below 1500 so it stays as a single packet. Network stuff will pad out packets to their max length hence compression is not handy for anything below that

buoyant viper Mar 24, 2026, 9:16 AM

#

ill look into it this evening potentially

wet breach Mar 24, 2026, 9:17 AM

#

here in the next decade we probably won't need compression anymore

#

and will start to become a thing of the past lol

wet breach Mar 24, 2026, 9:20 AM

#

buoyant viper ill look into it this evening potentially

since you are working with UDP, make sure you are listening for these packets on a different thread from the main, because the method to listen for UDP blocks

#

just so you don't accidentally start blocking your main thread lol

buoyant viper Mar 24, 2026, 9:22 AM

#

i think id have to do a separate thread regardless of udp or tcp no?

#

accept() just blocks for both iirc

#

there is something with NIO DatagramChannel that i believe lets u accept() non-blocking though

#

but processing networking on separate thread was my plan anyway

wet breach Mar 24, 2026, 9:24 AM

#

TCP doesn't always block

#

it will block, on sending or if connection has not been established

#

the sending only blocks if the queue or buffer is full

#

tcp is a stream if that helps because a connection has to be established. UDP no connection is established and packets are just sent to the destination.

buoyant viper Mar 24, 2026, 9:29 AM

#

ye

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 10:21 AM

#

Right now i'm trying to emulate the minecraft protocol

chrome beacon Mar 24, 2026, 10:36 AM

#

lilac dagger Right now i'm trying to emulate the minecraft protocol

You could look at Minestom for how they decode packets

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 10:36 AM

#

I kinda got it

#

I just need to fix the packet decompression

#

The rest is just looking into protocol wiki api

#

#

The decompression logic is wrong and it's stuck at registry data

chrome beacon Mar 24, 2026, 10:39 AM

#

I see

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 10:43 AM

#

I'll fix it when i get to pc

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 11:02 AM

#

fixed 😄

#

#

so now i should be able to speed it up

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 11:26 AM

#

i'm in

#

😄

chrome beacon Mar 24, 2026, 11:27 AM

#

🥳

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 11:27 AM

#

#

took way too many classes to do it

#

keep alive, teleport and send message/execute command packets left

#

#

teleport done

#

this is amazing

#

it's not even that hard to do 😄

buoyant viper Mar 24, 2026, 11:57 AM

#

waow :3

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 12:04 PM

#

this is out of date

wet breach Mar 24, 2026, 12:05 PM

#

lilac dagger this is out of date

what is out of date about it?

#

the id?

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 12:06 PM

#

yeah

wet breach Mar 24, 2026, 12:07 PM

#

lilac dagger yeah

is it 21?

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 12:08 PM

#

in hex?

wet breach Mar 24, 2026, 12:08 PM

#

no that is the int

#

hex for 21 is 0x15

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 12:10 PM

#

nope

#

doesn't pick it up

#

i see a bunch of 111 in chat

#

let me try that

wet breach Mar 24, 2026, 12:10 PM

#

just fyi, an id of 21 would mask bits 0,2,4

#

and ignores 1,3,4,6,7

#

got to love bitmasking

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 12:13 PM

#

i don't need for this 😄

#

just the id of keep alive

#

i'll figure it out

wet breach Mar 24, 2026, 12:16 PM

#

its probably 3

#

either 3 or 20 one of those

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 12:17 PM

#

i'll check the source of the server for the id

wet breach Mar 24, 2026, 12:18 PM

#

lilac dagger i'll check the source of the server for the id

1.7 – 1.8 → 0x00
1.21 – 1.21.1 → 0x26
1.21.2 – 1.21.4 → 0x27
1.21.5 – 1.21.7 → 0x26
1.21.9+ → 0x2B

buoyant viper Mar 24, 2026, 12:18 PM

#

lilac dagger this is out of date

make it up to date... its a wiki.. smh

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 12:19 PM

#

2B

#

😄

#

thx

#

i'll check this one out

buoyant viper Mar 24, 2026, 12:19 PM

#

lilac dagger 2B

https://tenor.com/view/nier-automata-swagger-android-walking-animation-walk-gif-16557605

Tenor

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 12:19 PM

#

buoyant viper make it up to date... its a wiki.. smh

well yeah of course, after i find the correct value

#

nvm

#

that's player loaded

#

which is correct in the wiki

#

wait

#

maybe i have to send the keep alive

#

nope, the sv

wet breach Mar 24, 2026, 12:22 PM

#

both client and server send keep alives

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 12:23 PM

#

yeah, but the server initiates it

#

#

i'll look for an id that's sent just once

wet breach Mar 24, 2026, 12:25 PM

#

lilac dagger i'll look for an id that's sent just once

well what I sent is up to date and confirmed

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 12:53 PM

#

oh i think i got it

#

keep alive is part of configuration

#

#

the id is correct

#

but i have to set to configuration protocols

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 1:33 PM

#

okay, i found the packet to switch strategy back to configuration

#

jeez, this is gonna end me

#

#

good thing i had the protocols stage implemented

slender elbow Mar 24, 2026, 2:11 PM

#

doesn't the data generator include packet IDs?

#

or, it used to and it no longer does? i can't remember which one it was

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 2:13 PM

#

no it doesn't

#

i'm confused on one thing

#

both configuration and play have keep alive packets added

slender elbow Mar 24, 2026, 2:14 PM

#

it does generate them

worldly ingot Mar 24, 2026, 2:14 PM

#

slender elbow doesn't the data generator include packet IDs?

I'm certain it does

slender elbow Mar 24, 2026, 2:14 PM

#

./generated/reports/packets.json

worldly ingot Mar 24, 2026, 2:14 PM

#

aPES3_AngeryNod That's relatively new

#

Maps from resource id to internal protocol id

slender elbow Mar 24, 2026, 2:15 PM

#

yeah

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 2:15 PM

#

hmm

slender elbow Mar 24, 2026, 2:15 PM

#

p neat

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 2:15 PM

#

slender elbow ./generated/reports/packets.json

where's this?

slender elbow Mar 24, 2026, 2:16 PM

#

the data generator

#

you need the --reports flag

#

https://minecraft.wiki/w/Tutorial:Running_the_data_generator
java -DbundlerMainClass=net.minecraft.data.Main -jar server.jar --reports

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 2:18 PM

#

oh sick

#

hmm

#

i managed to get these actually

#

but they aren't called not sure why

#

43 and 27

#

i substracted start from end

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 2:20 PM

#

lilac dagger both configuration and play have keep alive packets added

. which leads me back to this

#

neither 0x04 nor 0x1B is called

#

and nor a start configuration packet is sent that switches to configuration

#

i might've missed something else

#

wait nvm

mortal hare Mar 24, 2026, 2:35 PM

#

i should really try to utilize records more

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 2:36 PM

#

my bad

#

it's 2B for clientbound

mortal hare Mar 24, 2026, 2:36 PM

#

lilac dagger i substracted start from end

wtf

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 2:36 PM

#

and 1B for serverbound

mortal hare Mar 24, 2026, 2:36 PM

#

this is such yandere dev vibes

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 2:36 PM

#

this is how the id is obtained 😄

mortal hare Mar 24, 2026, 2:36 PM

#

😄

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 2:37 PM

#

i didn't know that you can generate the ids

#

yay

#

inversed packet id it was

#

because clientboundkeepalive and serverboundkeepalive have different id

#

so 2B for clientbound and 1B for serverbound 😄

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 2:45 PM

#

wet breach ``` 1.7 – 1.8 → 0x00 1.21 – 1.21.1 → 0x26 1.21.2 – 1.21.4 → 0x27 1.21.5 – 1.21.7...

you were right ^

#

but only for clientbound

wet breach Mar 24, 2026, 2:45 PM

#

indeed, which is why I said both client and server have them

#

I assumed you wanted the one the server sent

#

since the one coming from the client is easy to figure out?

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 2:46 PM

#

i make a client

#

so clientbound is the easiest

wet breach Mar 24, 2026, 2:46 PM

#

you made a client?

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 2:47 PM

#

it's for my bot creator

#

i didn't render or do much

wet breach Mar 24, 2026, 2:47 PM

#

anyways, both I suppose were easy to figure out if you just tossed up wireshark on 127.0.0.1 and bounded the client and server to the loopback as well

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 2:47 PM

#

i just join a player to a server and make him say stuff or execute commands

#

wouldn't it all be a byte mess?

wet breach Mar 24, 2026, 2:47 PM

#

disable compression and security as well would remove a bunch more stuff as well

wet breach Mar 24, 2026, 2:48 PM

#

lilac dagger wouldn't it all be a byte mess?

wireshark can inspect packets

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 2:48 PM

#

i just have this nice hook

wet breach Mar 24, 2026, 2:48 PM

#

more so if there is no encryption which you can disable

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 2:48 PM

#

it does the uncompression and everything

wet breach Mar 24, 2026, 2:48 PM

#

you can just disable compression on the server

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 2:49 PM

#

well, i just have it already with the sys out 😄

#

i don't need wire shark if i have it built in and picking packet id specifically

wet breach Mar 24, 2026, 2:49 PM

#

guess you know for future reference that you can just remove a bunch of clutter in terms of debugging packets

wet breach Mar 24, 2026, 2:49 PM

#

lilac dagger i don't need wire shark if i have it built in and picking packet id specifically

wireshark in this instance would allow you to see what both are sending and receiving at the same time

#

since both client and server can be ran on the same system and bounded to the loopback, it removes any outside interference. More so if we are disabling online mode and compression

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 2:58 PM

#

i see

#

i'll keep it in mind 😄

mortal hare Mar 24, 2026, 4:52 PM

#

#

i hate this

worldly ingot Mar 24, 2026, 4:54 PM

#

We love type erasure

mortal hare Mar 24, 2026, 4:59 PM

#

We also love runtime exceptions with immutable collections instead of separate interface contract without add() methods

#

i wonder is there any lib which provides java's collection but with immutability in mind at compile time?

worldly ingot Mar 24, 2026, 5:01 PM

#

Not really. Only library I've used that does immutability well was JOML

#

They have read-only parent types

#

Jetbrains annotations do have @Unmodifiable and @UnmodifiableView though which help a little

thorn isle Mar 24, 2026, 5:02 PM

#

it gets a bit hairy

#

e.g. for linked hashmaps, get() can a mutating operation

slender elbow Mar 24, 2026, 5:07 PM

#

Java's collections with immutability at compile time
that is called kotlin

worldly ingot Mar 24, 2026, 5:07 PM

#

Touche

mortal hare Mar 24, 2026, 5:34 PM

#

kotlin feels like c++ to me. language crammed full of syntax sugar features which can be used to easily shoot yourself to the foot

#

all i want is bug prone type safety with java's explicit syntax

mortal hare Mar 24, 2026, 5:38 PM

#

mortal hare We also love runtime exceptions with immutable collections instead of separate i...

also we love how you cant use generics with exceptions

thorn isle Mar 24, 2026, 5:40 PM

#

sure you can, it just doesn't work very well

ivory sleet Mar 24, 2026, 5:41 PM

#

mortal hare all i want is bug prone type safety with java's explicit syntax

checker's framework allows u to write various proofs for ur java programs

#

non-nullability and immutability proofs

#

basically at compile time

mortal hare Mar 24, 2026, 5:42 PM

#

ivory sleet checker's framework allows u to write various proofs for ur java programs

i havent seen good ide support for it

ivory sleet Mar 24, 2026, 5:42 PM

#

but i dont know a single person who likes checkers, people only use it if they are forced to lol

ivory sleet Mar 24, 2026, 5:42 PM

#

mortal hare i havent seen good ide support for it

the ide support is decent

#

but it can be slow at times since it deals with its own generation

#

either way, there are decent tools for this; that is prove correctness in different aspects, just that nobody likes to use them because they often become a distraction to most people who just wanna write and create things

ivory sleet Mar 24, 2026, 5:45 PM

#

mortal hare all i want is bug prone type safety with java's explicit syntax

this is also quite contradictory, there will be parts of ur program where u have to do runtime evaluations, java is still an imperative language

#

if u want to reason about types in higher order, use kotlin, or even better, move to a functional language

thorn isle Mar 24, 2026, 5:45 PM

#

there are only a few cases where i'd want more robust statical analysis, and that's mostly for very complicated threading stuff, which doesn't seem to exist for java

mortal hare Mar 24, 2026, 5:47 PM

#

ivory sleet this is also quite contradictory, there will be parts of ur program where u have...

project valhalla tries to fix this tho

#

still praying for native non null type support

ivory sleet Mar 24, 2026, 5:49 PM

#

mortal hare project valhalla tries to fix this tho

fix is the wrong choice of word

thorn isle Mar 24, 2026, 5:49 PM

#

i don't like any of the proposed approaches

#

generics are already a mess, adding a second dimension of nullability to it is going to make it even worse

#

value types come with weird nonsensical limitations that bleed out into reference types

slender elbow Mar 24, 2026, 5:53 PM

#

every day you complain about java yet refuse to use anything else beyond judging the book by its cover

#

I wonder

#

is java really the best solution to your problems out there and yet falls so short?

mortal hare Mar 24, 2026, 5:57 PM

#

slender elbow every day you complain about java yet refuse to use anything else beyond judging...

I'm not complaining im just questioning it. There's not a single programming language that's perfect

ivory sleet Mar 24, 2026, 5:58 PM

#

there is

#

skript my friend

slender elbow Mar 24, 2026, 5:58 PM

#

long live yaml

ivory sleet Mar 24, 2026, 5:59 PM

#

but either way, you don't seem to be looking for perfection though dovidas, rather total correctness in ur programs, and there are very good languages that allow you to elegantly reason about/prove correctness if that's what you're after, java is not one of them

slender elbow Mar 24, 2026, 6:00 PM

#

I must say your criticisms about java are very valid

#

but that is kind of the problem, java is not the solution you are actually looking for, those exist elsewhere and are quite elegant

young knoll Mar 24, 2026, 6:01 PM

#

It’s called assembly

mortal hare Mar 24, 2026, 6:02 PM

#

?paste

undone axleBOT Mar 24, 2026, 6:02 PM

#

Looking to paste something? Try a code block or one of the following websites:

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 6:32 PM

#

okay, i managed to read the text directly from nbt for my bot

#

😄

#

i don't need adventure api

#

almost done

#

bot creator for 1.21.11 works perfectly

#

just nbt and netty as dependencies

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 7:17 PM

#

does anyone know if i have to do anything else to support batching?

#

i miss a chat packet for some reason

#

#

i think i got it 😄

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 8:25 PM

#

yeah perfect

#

it was an issue with the the compression

#

not a bundling thing

#

#

this took way too long 😄

#

but it works perfectly

orchid gazelle Mar 24, 2026, 8:42 PM

#

lilac dagger

Will this go opensource?

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 8:43 PM

#

yeah

#

https://github.com/Fr33styler/BotCreator

GitHub

GitHub - Fr33styler/BotCreator: Allows you to join bots onto your s...

Allows you to join bots onto your server for testing purposes - Fr33styler/BotCreator

#

it'll come here

#

right now it's using mcprotocollib

#

but i can only support a version at a time with it

#

hence why i wanted to go full custom

thorn isle Mar 24, 2026, 8:46 PM

#

nice

#

for whatever reason all the projects doing this are in javascript or god forbid python

#

it'll be good to have one written in java for better integration with plugins

buoyant viper Mar 24, 2026, 8:58 PM

#

thorn isle for whatever reason all the projects doing this are in javascript or god forbid ...

i blame mineflayer

buoyant viper Mar 24, 2026, 8:59 PM

#

lilac dagger https://github.com/Fr33styler/BotCreator

couldve used this a few days ago lowk

#

lol

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 9:09 PM

#

it's really cool, i use it to test minigames 😄

thorn isle Mar 24, 2026, 9:10 PM

#

i wouldn't mind shading it into my ai moderator plugin to fuck with players some more

#

i've been planning on something such as this for a while, but creating a headless client has always been too much effort for me

lilac dagger Mar 24, 2026, 9:10 PM

#

it's still very basic

#

i hope you don't mind 😄

#

I'll make a bot-creator-api package and a bot-creator-gui

#

i'll make sure to upload it to jitpack

dreamy glade Mar 25, 2026, 5:43 AM

#

Hi, is there any ready-to-use spigot api that get an equivalent spawn egg from EntityType or I have to map it manually? Thanks.

hushed spindle Mar 25, 2026, 7:35 AM

#

did anything change with nms? cant seem to get the mojang mappings from the repo

#

or is this the wrong version

sullen marlin Mar 25, 2026, 7:37 AM

#

hushed spindle did anything change with nms? cant seem to get the mojang mappings from the repo

There's no mappings anymore, Mojang stopped obfuscation

hushed spindle Mar 25, 2026, 7:37 AM

#

would it now just be mojang instead of remapped-mojang?

sullen marlin Mar 25, 2026, 7:38 AM

#

It would be nothing

hushed spindle Mar 25, 2026, 7:38 AM

#

wait, no, im being silly

#

you're right

#

thank you!

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 7:38 AM

#

hushed spindle would it now just be `mojang` instead of `remapped-mojang`?

Neither. Just compile spigot, use org.spigot:spigot and don't include it in your compiled jar

hushed spindle Mar 25, 2026, 7:39 AM

#

wait does this mean nms users dont necessarily need to update every release any more??

#

my lord about time

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 7:39 AM

#

Not 100% of the time but yea, mostly the case

hushed spindle Mar 25, 2026, 7:39 AM

#

that's so convenient, i didnt realize the deobfuscation would impact me

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 7:40 AM

#

It is convenient enough i've bumped my lowest supported version to 26.1 kekw

hushed spindle Mar 25, 2026, 7:40 AM

#

100% fair

#

supporting multiple versions with nms has been a pain in the ass

onyx fjord Mar 25, 2026, 8:00 AM

#

hushed spindle wait does this mean nms users dont necessarily need to update every release any ...

No obf doesn't fix Mojang doing breaking changes on minor releases

#

So for the most part you will ideally maintain NMS for all versions

#

... that you wanna support

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 8:02 AM

#

onyx fjord So for the most part you will ideally maintain NMS for all versions

Yea, but in this case it's just checking if a certain method or class exists.
Which is already done for regular multi-version support lol

#

No need to multi-module or anything of the sort for 26.1+

hushed spindle Mar 25, 2026, 8:31 AM

#

now im running into a different issue that i didn't before

Execution default-compile of goal org.apache.maven.plugins:maven-compiler-plugin:3.15.0:compile failed: Plugin org.apache.maven.plugins:maven-compiler-plugin:3.15.0 or one of its dependencies could not be resolved

Cannot access central (https://repo.maven.apache.org/maven2) in offline mode and the artifact org.codehaus.plexus:plexus-java:jar:1.5.2 has not been downloaded from it before.

i don't use plexus and i'm not in offline mode
search results didn't explain the issue very far, anyone know what could be going on?

sullen marlin Mar 25, 2026, 8:34 AM

#

not a spigot issue, but share your pom

hushed spindle Mar 25, 2026, 8:36 AM

#

sorry, i thought we could come here with development issues of any kind

any specific pom? i have a lot of modules

#

?paste

undone axleBOT Mar 25, 2026, 8:36 AM

#

Looking to paste something? Try a code block or one of the following websites:

hushed spindle Mar 25, 2026, 8:36 AM

#

https://pastes.dev/kZgQvfwrKu

pastes

a simple pastebin.

sullen marlin Mar 25, 2026, 8:37 AM

#

try running maven again with -U ?

hushed spindle Mar 25, 2026, 8:37 AM

#

same result

wet breach Mar 25, 2026, 8:42 AM

#

hushed spindle same result

are you using intelliJ?

hushed spindle Mar 25, 2026, 8:42 AM

#

yes

wet breach Mar 25, 2026, 8:42 AM

#

-go to File -settings -on search box top left type 'maven'. -click on maven option -see if work offline box is checked. if yes then uncheck it

hushed spindle Mar 25, 2026, 8:43 AM

#

i did check that, its not checked

wet breach Mar 25, 2026, 8:43 AM

#

ok then try this

#

go to C:\Users\(windows user here)\.m2

delete
maven-metadata*.xml and _*.repositories

hushed spindle Mar 25, 2026, 8:45 AM

#

i should delete the repositories folder?

#

there's no maven-metadata though

#

uh rather this is what i got

wet breach Mar 25, 2026, 8:46 AM

#

they are probably hidden

#

on the top go to view and there should be somewhere where you can have it show hidden files

hushed spindle Mar 25, 2026, 8:46 AM

#

i have that checked

wet breach Mar 25, 2026, 8:47 AM

#

interesting it must be in intelliJ directory somewhere then

hushed spindle Mar 25, 2026, 8:47 AM

#

i believe maven is packaged in with intellij right? i dont think i ever really directly installed it

wet breach Mar 25, 2026, 8:48 AM

#

It should be yes

wet breach Mar 25, 2026, 8:49 AM

#

hushed spindle i believe maven is packaged in with intellij right? i dont think i ever really d...

you can try clearing the repository directory if you want too

#

if you don't want to delete you can just move it to somewhere else

hushed spindle Mar 25, 2026, 8:50 AM

#

i can rename the folder rq see if that works

wet breach Mar 25, 2026, 8:50 AM

#

that should work too

hushed spindle Mar 25, 2026, 8:51 AM

#

still complaining about offline mode

#

very strange

wet breach Mar 25, 2026, 8:51 AM

#

I guess try clearing caches in intelliJ and restart

#

this is why I don't use IntelliJ

hushed spindle Mar 25, 2026, 8:52 AM

#

what do you use? eclipse?

wet breach Mar 25, 2026, 8:52 AM

#

Netbeans

hushed spindle Mar 25, 2026, 9:10 AM

#

ok so manually inserting the dependencies it complained about fixed the problem
love it when intellij is being quirky

wet breach Mar 25, 2026, 9:16 AM

#

lol

hushed spindle Mar 25, 2026, 12:13 PM

#

right so now im wondering if you guys think this is a bukkit bug or not

i'm iterating through a server's recipes with Server#recipeIterator() and at some point during an iterator.next() call an error is thrown saying that a method DyeRecipe#toBukkitRecipe() was called and is abstract

i look at DyeRecipe and see no implementation of toBukkitRecipe() in it or its super classes (DyeRecipe extends NormalCraftingRecipe which implements CraftingRecipe which extends Recipe<CraftingInput>). Recipe<CraftingInput> defines a method toBukkitRecipe() but this is not implemented in any of those classes resulting in the following error

#

basically im asking if this is anything i can fix because i dont see this being an issue of my plugin

#

DyeRecipe i believe is new in 26.1?

young knoll Mar 25, 2026, 12:16 PM

#

Probably a bug

#

?jira

undone axleBOT Mar 25, 2026, 12:17 PM

#

https://hub.spigotmc.org/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa

hushed spindle Mar 25, 2026, 12:24 PM

#

cool cool

pure dagger Mar 25, 2026, 1:55 PM

#

why is it not allowed to cast List<Integer> -> List<String> or whatever BUT List<Integer> -> List<?> -> List<String> works

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 1:55 PM

#

it works but it's unsafe and will cause things to explode at runtime

#

this is basically the generics version of casting Integer to Object and then to String

#

it works, but you have to tell the compiler "trust me bro" in the Object -> String step

#

runtime however will not only trust but also verify, and it will blow up with a ClassCastException

worldly ingot Mar 25, 2026, 1:56 PM

#

One of the most C-like things you can do in Java. Forcing a cast that makes no sense LaughingKirby

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 1:57 PM

#

but because of type erasure, this (runtime exception) won't happen when you cast the collection; only once you try taking a String out of it and it gives you an Integer

pure dagger Mar 25, 2026, 2:01 PM

#

then why is the first way not allowed?

wet breach Mar 25, 2026, 2:01 PM

#

pure dagger why is it not allowed to cast List<Integer> -> List<String> or whatever BUT List...

should learn about generics and type erasure

pure dagger Mar 25, 2026, 2:02 PM

#

i know about that

#

but why is one allowed and the other not

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:02 PM

#

pure dagger then why is the first way not allowed?

because it won't work

#

the second way also won't work

wet breach Mar 25, 2026, 2:02 PM

#

pure dagger but why is one allowed and the other not

because one is checked at compile time and the other at runtime

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:02 PM

#

but you are bypassing the type system to trick the compiler into letting you do it

wet breach Mar 25, 2026, 2:02 PM

#

therefore anything checked at runtime will allow you to compile even if it will not work

pure dagger Mar 25, 2026, 2:02 PM

#

ah okay

#

List<Integer> intList = new ArrayList<>();
List<String> stringList = (casting to List<? then to List<String>)```

but wont it work if the list is empty and we will lose the first refference so no one will do intList.add(1) and then try to stringList.get()

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:07 PM

#

yes

pure dagger Mar 25, 2026, 2:07 PM

#

you are saying it will work

#

?

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:07 PM

#

it's the same object and the runtime won't know the difference

pure dagger Mar 25, 2026, 2:07 PM

#

yeah okay thankss

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:07 PM

#

because of type erasure, the runtime will only do the cast when you get() from it

#

Integer i = coll.get(0) will blow up if the 0th item in coll is actually a String and not an Integer

pure dagger Mar 25, 2026, 2:08 PM

#

yeah

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:08 PM

#

so it will "work" but only if you don't use generics for what they're supposed to be used for

#

an interesting case in theory but not something you should end up doing in practice

pure dagger Mar 25, 2026, 2:10 PM

#

yeah, i mean for making serialization library its kinda tricky and i think ill need to trust other methods (which are written by me) that they return the right type , and cant really verify it

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:10 PM

#

honestly just look at how gson does it

#

or jackson or whatever

pure dagger Mar 25, 2026, 2:10 PM

#

yeah i will

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:24 PM

#

Should I add an API to my plugin? it backports Sulfur Cubes, which aren't even out yet to 1.8, I see it creates many possibilities for endless mini-games, but because I coded in such a way for high performance, a custom Bukkit event for example may cause performance issues

worldly ingot Mar 25, 2026, 2:24 PM

#

You'll be fine. But really...? lol

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:24 PM

#

what's a sulfur cube

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:25 PM

#

to be released entity

worldly ingot Mar 25, 2026, 2:25 PM

#

1.8 players will go to such great lengths to use a vanilla feature that was added 10 years in the future

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:25 PM

#

worldly ingot You'll be fine. But really...? lol

They must be impatient as hell lol

#

or that

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:25 PM

#

is that one of the 100 useless dumb baby mobs added in 28.135 or whatever the current version scheme is

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:25 PM

#

Nah, it's actually useful

worldly ingot Mar 25, 2026, 2:25 PM

#

26.1, but no, this will be a 26.2 feature

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:26 PM

#

thorn isle is that one of the 100 useless dumb baby mobs added in 28.135 or whatever the cu...

Its actually useful as

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:26 PM

#

A sulfur cube is a passive mob that spawns only in sulfur caves and has the ability to absorb full blocks. When a sulfur cube has a block absorbed, it does not take damage from player attacks and can be launched like the block it absorbed based on its unique properties.

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:26 PM

#

That's why I made a plugin for it in 1.8

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:26 PM

#

Depending on the absorbed block, the sulfur cube will have different properties when hit. Properties that are known so far include:
Material     Effect
Ice     Slippery
(Low friction)
Logs     Bouncy
(Low gravity)
Wool     Light
(Low gravity, low fall speed)
Iron Block     Heavy
(High gravity, high fall speed)
Stone     Stays Low
(Little to no bounce)

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:26 PM

#

it's a football?

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:26 PM

#

fallow saffron That's why I made a plugin for it in 1.8

Literally didn't have to backport it, not that it's a proper backport anyways. Not like the code's gonna be the same lol

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:26 PM

#

But the thing is I used SoA ECS (contiguous memory to increase cpu cache hits and auto-vectorization from JIT) so an OOP event will slow it down

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:26 PM

#

thorn isle it's a football?

#

This fuckin thing

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:27 PM

#

you put a block in it and kick it around?

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:27 PM

#

fallow saffron But the thing is I used SoA ECS (contiguous memory to increase cpu cache hits an...

That sounds like a you problem. We're not gonna help you

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:27 PM

#

thorn isle you put a block in it and kick it around?

more or less, yea.

https://minecraft.wiki/w/Sulfur_Cube

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:27 PM

#

fallow saffron But the thing is I used SoA ECS (contiguous memory to increase cpu cache hits an...

lol

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:27 PM

#

And Bukkit just creates new objects every tick, thus increasing stuttering and slowdowns

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:27 PM

#

Skill issue

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:28 PM

#

iunno man

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:28 PM

#

you'll have to figure it out yourself, or wait for the entity to release & backport it then

#

we're not gonna help you regardless lol

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:28 PM

#

i don't know if you need to reimplement the football mob in assembly with 512 bit wide vectorized collision physics

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:28 PM

#

The thing is, a server may spawn tons of these

#

and that adds up

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:29 PM

#

either way, if you're worried about performance, you know what they say

#

benchmark it or go home

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:29 PM

#

^

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:29 PM

#

in regards to your event question, tryitandsee and benchmark it

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:29 PM

#

my other plugin which backports bubble columns, can create millions of them and still only use 3.5ms of a tick

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:29 PM

#

We're not gonna bother helping. You're on your own.
We can't even tell you if your backport is as efficient as the modern code lol

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:29 PM

#

It definitely is

#

the ECS I use, I ported from my game engine

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:30 PM

#

And you know this how? The mob ain't even released yet

#

Damn we got a time traveler fr fr

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:30 PM

#

bubble columns are literally water, no? same physics as with flowing water; entities check if they're in water, if it has an impulse, and then applies that impulse to the mob

#

you can have a world entirely made of bubble columns and it won't make a difference

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:30 PM

#

thorn isle bubble columns are literally water, no? same physics as with flowing water; enti...

Probably talking about the particles

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:30 PM

#

those are clientside

#

i.e. not my problem

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:31 PM

#

Because Minecraft's codebase is OOP, they don't use arrays but create super classes that also increase indirection

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:31 PM

#

okay and?

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:31 PM

#

It's slow

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:31 PM

#

skill issue on your part

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:31 PM

#

That's why it is so stuttery

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:31 PM

#

remake minecraft from scratch then

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:31 PM

#

lol

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:31 PM

#

I did

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:31 PM

#

no, not at all

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:31 PM

#

my game engine

#

not minecraft

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:31 PM

#

meh

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:31 PM

#

but

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:31 PM

#

the server performing poorly is definitely not caused by "oop indirection"

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:31 PM

#

^

#

It's decades of jank code

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:32 PM

#

that might be like 0.1% of it (moreso in the renderer perhaps) but not at all measurably significant

#

you're getting a bit lost in the weeds here

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:32 PM

#

If you keep creating objects per tick, the GC has to clean hundreds of thousands to millions of objects scattered in the heap

#

thus it uses up cpu time to do so

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:32 PM

#

yes, and that's exactly what it was built to do

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:32 PM

#

and slows the game/server

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:32 PM

#

we have things like gzgc nowadays

#

where95% of the work happens off the business threads

#

and generational garbage collectors explicitly target the problem of short lived, frequent allocations

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:33 PM

#

You're stuck on 1.8 & backporting. It's gonna be worse for you as you're missing many optimizations and rewrites lol

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:33 PM

#

Yes they did improve the code but the Entity class is still one giant class

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:34 PM

#

doesn't really mean anything performance wise

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:34 PM

#

It's hard for them to rewrite

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:34 PM

#

Not really?

#

The way they're doing it isn't incorrect lol

echo basalt Mar 25, 2026, 2:34 PM

#

inheritance vs composition

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:34 PM

#

It isn't but it's not the most optimal

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:34 PM

#

They don't need most optimal lol

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:34 PM

#

not to mention that you're invariably going to have a massive amount of indirection in the engine regardless of paradigm, especially in a sandbox game where the terrain is liable to change

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:34 PM

#

You want it, but they don't need it

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:35 PM

#

they do when its the largest game and continuous complaining of performance

#

Vulkan is not going to magically fix it

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:35 PM

#

And i doubt rewriting the entity system to be ECS will either

#

they're working with decades of poorly written code lol

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:35 PM

#

And if they're not already doing so, using MultiDrawIndirect in OpenGL that's already 99% of Vulkan

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:36 PM

#

myeah i don't really see the idea behind the vulkan switch

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:36 PM

#

macos

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:36 PM

#

Yes but ECS means easier and faster updates

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:36 PM

#

and yes the renderer is terrible and there are many many things that could be done to improve it

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:36 PM

#

OpenGL's getting deprecated or something iirc

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:36 PM

#

Yes stupid apple

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:36 PM

#

fallow saffron Yes but ECS means easier and faster updates

Sounds like they're not having issues with updates with how things currently are lol

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:36 PM

#

mactoids can go pound sand

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:36 PM

#

they just refuse to let opengl 4.3 which has mdi run on their devices

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:37 PM

#

Pretty sure a multi-billion $ company with decades of experience knows what they're doing lol

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:37 PM

#

well

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:37 PM

#

Walled-garden

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:37 PM

#

they certainly do

#

but the suits up top are telling them to make 1000 useless baby mobs per version

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:37 PM

#

If they thought ECS was worth doing, they'd be working towards that

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:37 PM

#

they did

#

with bedrock partially

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:37 PM

#

Irrelevant

#

bedrock != java

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:38 PM

#

probably not worth the rewriting effort

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:38 PM

#

yes yes I know

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:38 PM

#

exactly, so it's not worth bringing up lol

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:38 PM

#

but obviously they know the performance gains

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:38 PM

#

from ecs? there are none

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:38 PM

#

Irrelevant as well, as it's also a completely different programming language too lol

#

It's not worth comparing unless it was more 1:1

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:39 PM

#

they don't care about performance anyhow, just look at the new Brain vs the old ai goals system

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:39 PM

#

thorn isle from ecs? there are none

Depends, Array of Structures, not really much performance gains, but a sparse and dense set (SoA) adds heaps of performance

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:39 PM

#

what they're optimizing for is ease of maintenance and the ability to shit out 1000 baby mobs per version

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:39 PM

#

fallow saffron Depends, Array of Structures, not really much performance gains, but a sparse an...

nonsense, has nothing to do with rewriting entities/blocks to run as ecs

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:40 PM

#

I'm like 99% sure Enium heard something and never bothered actually doing massive benchmarks with different implementations

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:40 PM

#

It's not nonsense, I use it in my game engine, it uses like 1% of the cpu

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:40 PM

#

have you ever even looked at a spark report

#

"ruh roh memory locality" is not the issue here

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:40 PM

#

Explain the frequent stuttering then

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:41 PM

#

define stuttering

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:41 PM

#

frequent pauses in frames

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:41 PM

#

are we talking about the client or the server; the tick loop or the rendering pipeline?

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:41 PM

#

im talking about the client right now

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:41 PM

#

if you're talking about the rendering pipeline, it stutters because it's fucking shit

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:41 PM

#

ECS & How minecraft are doing it both have their pros & cons.
It's not worth switching unless the difference of switching to ECS is worth it, which so far it does not seem that way.

Hell, I wouldn't even have issues updating Minecraft with new things

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:42 PM

#

there are a million and one things you could do to improve the rendering pipeline

#

many of them aren't even major changes

#

just look at shit like sodium

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:42 PM

#

It's not the rendering pipeline, as minecraft grew, more and more objects are created

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:42 PM

#

throwing ecs at it is like the least relevant proposition possible

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:42 PM

#

on 1.8 it runs smooth, not much stuttering, on the latest version it runs like shit

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:42 PM

#

"muh objects" no, that's not relevant

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:42 PM

#

thorn isle they don't care about performance anyhow, just look at the new Brain vs the old ...

What even is a good AI impl for what they need?

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:43 PM

#

thorn isle "muh objects" no, that's not relevant

^ Modern PCs are fast af yo

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:43 PM

#

have you profiled the garbage collector, my guy?

#

have you even tried anything other than g1gc?

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:43 PM

#

This is the same mindset as "let's just slap on DLSS" and pray it runs well

buoyant viper Mar 25, 2026, 2:43 PM

#

gasp, a game gets more computationally expensive as it adds more features!

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:43 PM

#

No, sounds like vcs2 just has more experience than you lol

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:43 PM

#

although since you're on 1.8 i bet you're still running the psgc 🤡

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:44 PM

#

Minecraft's allocation rate is 150 MiB/s, my engine is 0.0MiB/s, no stuttering, volumetric clouds, physically-based sky, pbr materials, vsm shadows

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:44 PM

#

vagrant stratus What even *is* a good AI impl for what they need?

The older AI Goal system seems more or less good enough, even for modern games tbf 🤔

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:44 PM

#

written in Java 8

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:44 PM

#

allocation-caused stuttering on the cpu end is easily profilable and noticeable, and we have very mature tools and architecture to detect, profile, debug, and resolve them

#

and no, it's not caused by just spawning a million objects

#

more objects does not necessarily mean things stutter or even consume much in terms of compute

#

modern garbage collectors are exceptionally efficient at doing allocations and disposing short-lived objects

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:46 PM

#

Then tell me, why are there no AAA game engines written in Java if memory pressure is not an issue

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:46 PM

#

The only real way to tell if it would make a difference is gasp modifying the client to use ECS and doing benchmarking. Who wants to waste time decompiling & rewriting the client just to do a proper bench mark

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:46 PM

#

fallow saffron Then tell me, why are there no AAA game engines written in Java if memory pressu...

so we're goal post moving?

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:46 PM

#

So we agree that object allocation IS an issue

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:47 PM

#

The language doesn't mean much, there are multiple games written in Java

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:47 PM

#

none of them are AAA in visual fidelity

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:47 PM

#

Because they don't need to be AAA in visual fidelity

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:47 PM

#

fallow saffron So we agree that object allocation IS an issue

Not at all

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:47 PM

#

Ugh I give up, keep doing what you're doing

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:47 PM

#

did you know most of netflix's backend is written in java

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:48 PM

#

elasticsearch is java too

#

A good chunk of Jenkins is in java as well

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:50 PM

#

now what memory pressure does have an impact on is worst-case latency, as older gc's have been stop-the-world, but modern gc's like gzgc are specifically designed to have low pause times

vagrant stratus Mar 25, 2026, 2:50 PM

#

Like.. if Java was the problem, we wouldn't have such major projects using it lol

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:51 PM

#

so it's not from nowhere that things like renderers which are sensitive to worst-case latency might avoid java, but it's also a solved problem

#

it will work if you design for it and make it work

#

and no, you don't need ecs or native memory vectorization nonsense for it

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:52 PM

#

I literally created a world firstly with my SoA ECS plugin, placed 1m bubble columns, TPS sat at ~19.98TPS, the plugin consumed 0.35ms of a tick, did the same with real bubble columns (not even 30,000 placed) and MSPT went through the roof at 150MS! the tick took 150% longer

#

tell me where SoA ECS is not useful

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:52 PM

#

it isn't

#

mojang is just bad

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:52 PM

#

lol

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:52 PM

#

you're comparing apples and oranges here

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:52 PM

#

Now you're saying they're bad

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:53 PM

#

like we've said several times, mojang doesn't optimize for performance

fallow saffron Mar 25, 2026, 2:53 PM

#

Jesus I am talking to a 10 year old

thorn isle Mar 25, 2026, 2:53 PM

#

you optimize for performance