What’s your most controversial opinion when it comes to reptiles?

[pine maple]

Sprinkling isopods and springtails in your soil doesn't make your vivarium bio-active. It REQUIRES live plants and small bits of maintenance to ensure environmental health in the long run and to complete the decomposition cycle.

[sinful pecan]

beardies are boring imo

[novel vine]

Heat mats are better than heating lamps imo

[snow tinsel]

Some more:

• Heat lamps are better as heat mats can’t heat past substrate as well
• Beardies and Ball Pythons are more “intermediate” animals then beginner animals

[tiny fable]

Watching one video doesn’t make you an expert you have to watch several videos and online care guides then blend all the information

[mighty schooner]

That’s not controversial. That’s logical.😂 (and often ignored)

[tiny fable]

Too true unfortunately

[nocturne frigate]

Keeping wild caught reptiles isn’t a bad thing to do if you know what your doing and it’s under the right circumstances

Especially for the purpose of selective breeding to make offspring that is more suitable for captivity

Or too see if that uncommonly kept reptile is even suitable for captivity

[pine maple]

Here's one for ball pythons: Normal wild type is the prettiest coloration hands down

[nocturne frigate]

Agreed

Morphs are cool

I get the appeal but normal versions of the reptile are best

[pine maple]

Agreed 100% The natural markings on for example leopard geckos, cresteds, beardies, etc are spectacular and with so many issues cropping up with breeding (health and neurological) I'd much rather have a naturally beautiful and generally healthy reptile than one with a million genes bred to have just a little less or more of a color

Some morphs that are hardy and naturally occurring are fine. But being obsessed with color is how we get crap like enigma geckos and spider balls

[nocturne frigate]

Breeding for colors alone is just a bad idea

[pine maple]

And unfortunately very commonplace and accepted without much question. I'm fine with having some fun with breeding, but it's the irresponsibility for me D:

As Adam likes to say though imma get off my soap box haha

[uneven shale]

Chameleons should not be kept as pets for 90% of people!! They only tolerate handling and are very high maintenance. Most people can’t give them the proper quality of life.

[nocturne frigate]

agreed

[muted yarrow]

Racks are unethical for long-term housing and should only be used in very temporary situations.

[modern pollen]

That there are "beginner reptiles" all reptiles can be relatively expensive. if you do enough research on how to take care of the reptile, and you do it properly as provided not by one source but by many than i think most reptiles could be decent first ones, and i dont mean the big ones like berms, retics or monitors, biggest id say would probably be about the size of a blue tongue

Sure i agree some reptiles are easier than others but if you want, again back to the blue tongue lets say and you do a years worth of research, you have the money and you are 100% dedicated, get the blue tongue instead of a leopard gecko

[tiny fable]

Pet stores should be banned for animal abuse

At least big box pet stores

[modern pollen]

Breeders should have a permit/license to breed or sell reptiles depending on what reptile they are breeding/selling

The permit/license should be free but there should be some regulations in order to get it

[silent shell]

"Beginner reptiles" don't exist. There are easier species that will be a lot less work than species you should only keep if you have years of experience in the hobby, but the term beginner reptiles implies that they are easy to take care of overall.
Every reptile requires research and will likely feel difficult for a first time owner who has never taken care of a reptiles.

[modern pollen]

I said that here lol

[oblique kindle]

But it’s takeing them out of there home and putting them in a glass box. And it’s almost always impossible to find out a wild caught reptiles age they carry a lot of diseases and it’s just messed up.

[silent shell]

Well, if you're keeping wc reptiles to breed a captive bred population, that would reduce the trade of wc individuals overall

[wild breach]

Use sand (with topsoil) for bearded dragons

Spider or champagne ball pythons shouldn’t be restricted from being sold (but personally shouldn’t breed them)

Best isopod is porcelio scaber lava

[uneven shale]

Reptiles don’t just cuddle for heat. They have emotions, personalities, and preferences. Sometimes they cuddle just because they want to be close with you.

I’ve seen this with my tegu when I let her free roam. Her cage is open and she has the option to bask but she prefers to sit in my lap while I’m at the computer. Her basking spot is way warmer than I am… she just wants to be with her favorite person!

[nocturne frigate]

Not all animals need massive enclosures. Ball Pythons, Leos, etc

[modern pollen]

yes but its nice for them to have bigger enclosures, a smaller enclosure is 100% not the way to go

[silent shell]

Beeps need 120 gallons, some people would consider that massive

And leos do in fact need 40

[nocturne frigate]

how come? I just need solid evidence and reasoning that there is a difference in the animal.

[nocturne frigate]

But wouldn't that make it a want over a need

[modern pollen]

what?

[nocturne frigate]

What do you need context for?

[modern pollen]

the way you worded it just makes my brain hurt

ohh wait now i understand

took me a second lol

No, reptiles do need i'd like to think just above minimum

[nocturne frigate]

hahaha now where on the same page

[modern pollen]

Smaller enclosures stress out reptiles

its also not healthy to have, lets say a bp in a 50 gallon enclosure yk

[nocturne frigate]

You you say smaller or bigger

[modern pollen]

even though the requirement i think is 75 gallons (dont quote me on this) 120 gallons + is way better

Different Countries have different opinions on minimums

in the us again i think its 75

in other countries some people think the minimum should be no less than 120

its all about making the animals life the best we can in captivity

if you cant afford it dont get one

dont get a reptile*

and for some reptiles lets say burms they do need a bigger enclosure, you cant just put them in a 120 gallon and say they will be fine because they def wont be, people like to think bigger enclosures stress reptiles out, but it most curtainlly will not

[nocturne frigate]

My only thought I have on this is that ball python breeders typically keep there animals that are in tub no bigger then 20gal with very bear minimal (I don't think is ok to speak) but if a animal like a ball python is going to be stressed then wouldn't it make since that it wouldn't have eggs or they would all be infertile.

[nocturne frigate]

Well I do agree with animals like burms, iguanas, anacondas, to get massive enclosures

[modern pollen]

thats for a very minimal amount of time tho, 2 - 3 months at most probably

[nocturne frigate]

No. Massive breeders typically the pets that most people have come from places where they live small enclosures year round

[modern pollen]

yes but its more than not even a sq ft in size

[nocturne frigate]

how big do you think there burrows are in the wild

[mighty schooner]

The only reason an animal gets stressed in a big enclosure is improper husbandry (ex. lack of hides and coverage, improper parameters, etc). That argument always will be used by breeders who try to do identical amounts of effort for both, something like paper and a water bowl, but that’s not how it works.

[modern pollen]

your only factoring in burrows, your not factoring in the rest of the space

yk snakes live in more of a area other than their burrow right?

[nocturne frigate]

Do you really think animals like ball pythons are going outside everyday

[nocturne frigate]

Yes but these animals dont leave unless they have too

[modern pollen]

no, but my point is if your not going to give them the adequate space dont buy a reptile

[modern pollen]

do more research before you say smth stupid bc your just embarrassing yourself here

[nocturne frigate]

hahaha thats completely fair. I just think some shit is completely overkill

[nocturne frigate]

I don't feel embarrassed

[modern pollen]

well yea, but giving a bp 120 gallons 100% reasonable

even a bit more space like a 5x2x2 is reasonable

if you have the space go for it yk

[nocturne frigate]

oh fs

[mighty schooner]

I was willing to let this go on if it stayed respectful so please keep it that way

[modern pollen]

alr sry

[nocturne frigate]

I just dont think its a absolute need

[modern pollen]

why wouldnt you want your reptile to be happy though?

[nocturne frigate]

I have seen oddly active ball pythons that dont like to sit still and explore a lot. That animal would strongly benefit from a larger enclosure

[mighty schooner]

4x2x2 is the min for an enclosure setup. If you wanna talk about rack setups, I can get someone to talk about how to do that properly

[modern pollen]

what size enclosure

??

[nocturne frigate]

I think if someone wants the most there animal to be the "happiest" then I think the best way to achieve is through frequently changing the enclosure around.

[modern pollen]

Yes but bigger enclosures help alot

[mighty schooner]

But stuff doesn’t constantly change in termite mounds?

[nocturne frigate]

uhhhh if i had to guess prob a 70gal but its my friends so i really dont know

[modern pollen]

send a pic maybe

thats small though

if it is a 70 gal

[nocturne frigate]

hahahaha thats fair but thats why used the word animal and not ball python. BTW ball pythons usually dont live the same burrow there whole life

[mighty schooner]

Ik they don’t. I’m using your own wording against you here.

[nocturne frigate]

yes but for what size snake, you admittedly jump to the conclusion that she is full grown

[modern pollen]

exactly the bigger the enclosure the more space they have for seperrate burrows

[modern pollen]

even a sub adult could benefit from a 120gaal

gal*

[nocturne frigate]

yes for the sake of the argument I can see why that would make sense but most ball pythons have to change burrows a least once a year bc on the floods

[modern pollen]

I can see where your coming from if you dont have space, but then get a smaller snake that needs less space or no reptile at all

so its like do what you want but in the end try to think abt the reptile more than space

[mighty schooner]

As I said, if y’all would like to discuss how to properly do racks, I’d be happy to bring someone in to do that

[modern pollen]

if you have not enough space for a decent size enclosure maybe think about surrendering it

[nocturne frigate]

I think my point I trying to drive home is that some things can be a little overkill

[nocturne frigate]

I dont snakes for that reason

[mighty schooner]

Ah so that’s why you fail to see

Makes sense

[nocturne frigate]

Whats that mean

[mighty schooner]

You fail to see the benefit of larger enclosures, cause you don’t own a snake of your own. Simple as that

[modern pollen]

Tbh i dont have a snake or any reptile for that matter and i understand

so i dont think thats the issue

[nocturne frigate]

yeah thats just empty shot

Just bc i dont own any doesnt been I havent worked with them or been around them enough to gain a moderate amount of experience

[modern pollen]

it all comes down to how they were being cared for when you were around them

and even when your holding one doesnt mean you have experience

[nocturne frigate]

hahahah well I know that

[mighty schooner]

Then what is this experience you claim to have?

[nocturne frigate]

I would argue that the best experience to gain from animals is being able to watch them

[modern pollen]

you have to be taking care of them for long periods of time, when my friend goes on vacation for 2 and a half weeks a few times a year (5 ish times) i have to take care of his leo's, that is semi experience, but its not alot so it all depends on what reptile your caring for and how long etc

[nocturne frigate]

right which i agree with

[nocturne frigate]

A lot of volunteer

[modern pollen]

🤦

[nocturne frigate]

whys that

[mighty schooner]

Volunteer work where? Doing what?

[nocturne frigate]

Local reptile recues. feeding, handling, education awareness, building and setting up enclosures

[modern pollen]

yes but i dont consider myself to be advanced, every day for 2 and a half weeks for a few hours 5 times a year isnt all that much if you really think about it

[nocturne frigate]

I dont either

I simply made a argument and then defending it with the resources and knowledge of animals that I have

[modern pollen]

if you build/set up enclosures how do you not understand the importance of larger enclosures, doesnt have to be huge but bigger is better

over kill is over kill

but bigger than minimum should be the minimum if that makes sense

[nocturne frigate]

I really open to the idea to animals and there enclosures, I just also like really solid evidence to back that knowledge

[modern pollen]

Theres more evidence to back up why bigger is better

I was literally talking in the general chat earlier how my second grade class reptile a beardie died prematurely do to him being in a 75 gal without uvb

he was only 6

[mighty schooner]

@oak shard would you like to explain your bp story here? I can’t speak “from experience” about them and clearly anything I say is going in one ear and out the other

[nocturne frigate]

bc when you build or buy say a 4x2x2 enclosure for say a ball python, it all so makes it more difficult for proper humidity to be achieved and things like a thermal gradiate

[modern pollen]

BUY A PVC ENCLOSURE

They hold in humidity better

a lot better than glass

[oak shard]

what is it about?

[mighty schooner]

Proper bp enclosure size

[nocturne frigate]

yes but for places like animal rescues it more affordable to build instead of buy

[oak shard]

ah

[modern pollen]

this guy thinks smaller enclosures are better

[oak shard]

yes

well

that's outdated

[nocturne frigate]

when did I say that

[oak shard]

my girl is in a 5x2x2 and my boy in a 4x1.5x1.5 I think

[modern pollen]

Boi do i have to go back and ss all the chats

[oak shard]

I feel like my boy is too big for his 4ft vivarium

he's encroaching on 3ft in length, if he hasn't already surpassed it

[mighty schooner]

Please don’t

[oak shard]

Morrigan is close to 5ft

they use all their space

[modern pollen]

I wont

[nocturne frigate]

a snake of that length I would agree with on a big enclosure

[oak shard]

so you don't agree with me puttin gmy 3ft male in a 5ft enclosure?

[mighty schooner]

That’s how big female bps should regularly be getting

[oak shard]

I don't think my male will care much about your opinion though, he'll love it anyway, knowing his personality

a 5ft enclosure gives him the opportunity to have loads of enrichment in it, without getting cramped

[nocturne frigate]

BOOM!

[oak shard]

they don't care about much tbh

lmao

[nocturne frigate]

Thats the point I have been trying to make

[oak shard]

I wish I had their pysche

[modern pollen]

so he died when i was in 4th grade, that was 5 or 6 yrs ago now and he had to small of a enclosure, he was 6 when he died, a small enclosure can have a impact on a reptile

[oak shard]

but bigger is better

as long as you deck it out accordingly

that's the point people forget

you can put a 3ft beep in a 5ft or 6ft enclosure, but if you will leave it with just a hide and maybe a few sticks, they'll hate it

[nocturne frigate]

UVB had to do more with that

[oak shard]

and my beeps are good at telling me when they hate it or not

[nocturne frigate]

RIGHT!

[modern pollen]

yea but the smaller enclosure still had smth to do with it

[oak shard]

but I try to make it look like proper environments, loads of enrichment without having them feeling cramped

[nocturne frigate]

I like you

[oak shard]

that top one has zevran in it, and I feel it's too small for him

and that's a 4ft enclosure

[nocturne frigate]

That is animal is something you know like the back of your hand

[modern pollen]

me and @mighty schooner were literally making similar points 😭

[oak shard]

maybe it was just worded awkwardly

[nocturne frigate]

you know what there comfortable and what THEY need

[oak shard]

yes but that doesn't mean you can get comfortable with putting them in a small tub

just because they act like it's comfy.

[mighty schooner]

Thank you very much

[nocturne frigate]

You and max have been trying to talk down to me

[mighty schooner]

No we haven’t

[oak shard]

loads of snakes get lethargic in small enclosures and don't show proper natural behaviour because they're not given the option/chance

[modern pollen]

🤦

[modern pollen]

exactly what we were trying to tell him

[nocturne frigate]

Then how do we as reptile owners get better at recognizing these things

[oak shard]

this is zevran... in his enclosure.

[oak shard]

by giving animals the options to choose

anyway, I feel like zevran is too big for that enclosure now

[nocturne frigate]

Stunner

[modern pollen]

normal bp?

[oak shard]

yep

[modern pollen]

bc normals best bp

[oak shard]

nah, he was just very friendly

[nocturne frigate]

I like the yellows the most but the normals are hella dope

[oak shard]

he still is

[nocturne frigate]

Look at the end of the day I really have appreciated this conversation and I have made a better opinion on bps because the knowledge you guys have offered. Though it was a lil aggressive still much love

[modern pollen]

if it makes you feel better sry for being aggressive ig

i just get kinda frustrated with ppl sometimes, but i understand bc i didnt understand things at one point

[nocturne frigate]

Thats the best thing you could've, I feel like the reptile community sucks in that regard for example people getting way to aggro over stuff

[modern pollen]

its alot less toxic then most communities trust me

[nocturne frigate]

Look I fs fs get it. Im not any better at times especially over animals that we all carry of passion for

[nocturne frigate]

hahahahaha thats fs

[modern pollen]

a lot of it is mostly positive info that just comes out wrong

[nocturne frigate]

I could not agree more

[modern pollen]

the reptile community as a whole, not just this server btw

[nocturne frigate]

OH YEAH ik that

Im in the reddit for reptiles and it lowkey sucks

its like everyday someone is trying to start a witch hunt

[modern pollen]

Reddit is like slightly less toxic twitter

[nocturne frigate]

oooooooooo

thats why I dont have twitter

[modern pollen]

alr welp i should probably get offline for rn ive been on for like 3 hours

[nocturne frigate]

fs thank you for having this convo with me. I feel more educated

[modern pollen]

np ill spread the message to everyone else who helped too

the message of thanks just to be clear

[oak shard]

it also depends on how you feel. If you're angry, chances are you'll interpret what someone writes as a similar tone too. I'm usually very chilled, so even if I sound blunt, imagine me just leaning back with a glass of water and a smile lol

[nocturne frigate]

I just really like to improve understanding of animals like bps cause there so common

[silent shell]

They need it because they can grow up to 11 inches and any enclosure that is less than 3 times a lizard's length by 1.5 times their length just doesn't give them room to move. Also, 40 gallons provides room for a much more appropriate temperature gradient.

[modern pollen]

we alr explained it on why bigger enclosures are better

[silent shell]

If you can't answer the question "can the lizard walk more than it's body length in a straight line" with yes, the tank is too small.

[nocturne frigate]

I have been educated. no need to start this up again

[nocturne frigate]

yes I like this tho

[silent shell]

Sorry, just got home, still on my phone, just saw that I got @ed and replied to that directly

[nocturne frigate]

all love. I do really like the answer you have me

[nocturne frigate]

Just out of curitosity tho. would you say you need no less then a 40 to achieve a proper thermal gradient

[silent shell]

For a leo, yes, for a beardie, it would be 120

[modern pollen]

probably a leo

[silent shell]

Aft, too, since they have similar sizes ant temp requirements

[nocturne frigate]

AFT?

[modern pollen]

african fat tail

they are like leos but different part of the world

[nocturne frigate]

oh oh

I know what those are

[modern pollen]

yea

you could also probably do a crestie in a 40 if that tickles your fancy

[nocturne frigate]

What would recommend for square footage

[silent shell]

For what species? I don't know a ton about leos other than that a 40 gallon is absolute minimum and why

[nocturne frigate]

I just like hearing what you think

[silent shell]

Which would be 4.5 feet squared, btw. For a beardie minimum would be 8 feet squared

Literally just 3x1. 5 and 4x2 foot respectively 😂

[nocturne frigate]

oh oh ik that stuff

I had a tortise at one point so ik that stuff

I have seen leo do well in lots of environments so I was just curious

[nocturne frigate]

I just like conversations that can offer numbers and you offered that

[graceful finch]

I love me some cool morphs
But wild types are CRIMINALLY underrated

[modern pollen]

very true naturals are my favorites for most reptiles

[thin grail]

its too easy to get a reptile in the us.
im from brazil, while i think there should be a bigger offer of the animals that are legal, we dont really have many species to choose from. but i feel thats good. it helps with avoiding invasive species.
here, all reptiles must be micro chipped and business need a lot of paperwork to properly sell them. as far as im aware, it is illegal to sell reptiles on a website (by email its fine, you just need a direct contact with the seller and the animal).
most pet stores don't sell them, you can't just walk into a petsmart equivalent and leave with a gecko.
when you get a pet reptile, you get a receipt with information about the animal, and as a way to show the purchase was legit.
(im also pretty sure you can't own WC legally, but i might be wrong about this one)
im not saying the system here is perfect or that other countries should follow it, but i feel that some hurdles makes it harder for people that dont know what they're doing, or are not prepared to care for them.

idk, i might be wrong, i've never tried to get a reptile in the us, this is all from what i've seen from people on line

[magic heath]

The contents of the tank are just as important as the size. A poorly furnished bigger tank isn't better than a well designed, well furnished minimum tank. You need space and also decor to make a tank good.

[silk cipher]

Scaleless snakes shouldn't be a thing

[magic heath]

I've done some work with people who rescue animals. Petco has chameleons for like $80 and anyone can buy them. It's a problem. You are right on the money.

[snow tinsel]

I think a free to obtain license/permit would be a good route to go. Require maybe some basic knowledge test for different types (lizard, snake, turtle, etc) or even tiers (basics, intermediate, advanced) of animals.

Something so that just anyone cannot just buy an animal.

[gilded flame]

Sadly, it's unavoidable in some cases with live feedings. My ball python will not eat F/T. I tried for 5 weeks straight. Rats and mice. He's a live mouser only.

[fading bloom]

There are many species that can be cohabitated fairly safely. It of course depends on the species, the individual of that species' personality, how you introduce them, and the enclosures they live in. Most people are just not experienced enough to do it properly and many more people take advantage of that idea and keep multiple animals in an enclosure too small for one, hence the stigma. There isn't much benefit for the animal the majority of the time but there isn't any negatives if you do it right. Also just as a final clarification, this doesn't apply to all species of reptile but a heck of a lot more than people realize.

[neat parrot]

Honestly locals can be worse there all sad should only be direct to consumer

Racks are animal abuse breeder or not can’t ethically do something don’t do it

[fiery dock]

There are no beginner reptiles. If you can set up and keep alive a bioactive enclosure with plants, Isopods and Springtails then you can start with a Crested Gecko or Leopard Gecko.

[severe raft]

I think tub set ups can be great for snakes. especially high humidity snakes. i’m not talking like just paper towel and some hides. i think a tub set up can be done right and can be just as good as a terrarium.

[gilded flame]

Hard agree. I've moved towards more naturalistic set ups, but all my tubs had enrichment and sufficient cover. Used coco fiber the whole time, never paper towel/newspaper.

[shadow cove]

the only "reason" to keep WC animals is to support CB breeding efforts (if you have space accommodations etc)

because all pet reptiles started out as WC animals

[shadow cove]

emerald scales is the only thing that i know of that has to have you send pics of the enclosure to receive the animal

[shadow cove]

every reptile "tolerates handling"

[cerulean gust]

what do you think?

[mighty schooner]

I will leave this up for now but know the moment it goes crazy I'm shutting it down

[river lance]

That big snakes shouldn't be kept as pets for most people.... The simple fact is that people don't keep them in proper enclosures like some keep 20 foot snakes in enclosures half their size. It's honestly sad I kind of have a small hatred for people who keep big snakes in a enclosure that is smaller then the full length of the snake.

[hybrid palm]

That reptiles should not be pets. It's definitely not something we'd experience here, but this seems to come up pretty often among people who do not keep reptiles. People seem to associate reptiles as purely wild animals and should not be kept in captivity in all. However, under the right conditions, reptiles can and do thrive in captivity and it gives us a chance to learn about them.

[fervent zephyr]

thats probably mine too

[neon scaffold]

That you shouldn’t defang/remove venom from venomous snakes, somehow some people still think it’s okay

[fervent zephyr]

dont really thjink thats controversial its pretty frowned upon

[gritty peak]

Probably that I don’t think it’s fair to keep reptiles in ‘bare minimum’ setups. And some people aren’t doing enough for their reptiles. I’m not the reptile police, but if you can’t/aren’t willing to spend a big chunk of money on just one setup and it’s upkeep, and do tonnes of research on mundane things like ‘types of soil’, probably invest in a hamster or something else instead. For the most part, reptiles are curious, explorative creatures who should be given the right setup to accommodate their behaviours. And, in my opinion, that’s when they’re happiest.

Also, reptiles are better suited to being mostly a viewing animal. Obviously there’s exceptions to every rule, but you’re not as likely to find a reptile that ‘likes’ handling, as to, say, a dog. Because, obviously, they’re entirely different species. If you want an animal that behaves like a dog, a reptile isn’t for you. After all, it’s in their nature to want to avoid big ‘predators’ like us. They’re usually happiest doing their own thing. People shouldn’t get a reptile expecting it to tolerate or like being handled, because some don’t, and I don’t think it’s fair to force handling for our own entertainment. We should all be willing to read our animal’s body language and respect their boundaries

that was a long-ass reply that I wasn’t expecting lol. But felt good to get that off my chest 😂

[neon scaffold]

The people who think it’s okay would find it controversial💀

[fervent zephyr]

true

[gleaming flint]

Unpopular opinions:

A tub setup can be just as good as a glass tank. Some species may even do better in tubs than glass terrariums.

Not everyone should be a breeder. Many uneducated people breed animals with severe health complications due to issues with incubation or unhealthy animals being bred.

WC animals should not be sold directly as pets. They should be used for breeding to produce healthy captive offspring. Selling WC animals directly as pets for cheap just encourages more to be taken from the wild.

You shouldn't get ANY exotics without having an exotics vet nearby. Way too many cases of reptiles dying because "my nearest vet is 2/3/4 hours away" Check BEFORE BUYING.

Don't buy a species you're not passionate about as a means of gaining experience for one you do like. || I don't mean this in a way of "skip straight to an advanced species," this is specifically about people who say "Well I don't like ball pythons/corn snakes/leopard geckos" etc but feel pressured to in order to gain experience to get a more difficult species.|| If you don't like any "starter" species, look harder. If you aren't passionate about your first reptile, will you REALLY continue to research and pay attention to the behaviors of the animal?

Bouncing off the last one, a "rare" species to own in captivity does NOT mean it will be a good pet. Many species are rarely kept in captivity because they are difficult to keep or difficult to breed in captivity, and must be WC, hence less available. There will also be less information about the species in captivity, so less chance of getting help when they become ill or are acting strangely. More likely than not you're going to be in over your head unless you're extremely experienced already.

[boreal dirge]

May not be controversial here but:

1. Wild caught species should never be kept as pets.

2. Tubs are not as good as terrarium setups unless it's specifically for a species that needs a tub setup (like a young blood, or young reptiles if you're a breeder.) But it should never be bare minimum and should be given as much time and care as a glass terrarium.

3. You should have to fill out paperwork before purchasing a reptile

4. Unless you have a 15 foot (or larger) enclosure, big snakes should not be pets

5. Live rodents should never be fed

[indigo badge]

That WC animals can be kept so long as you have the intention to breed and so long as there is not a currently established breeding population (should be experienced in breeding too tho ofc)

That a solid chunk of more difficult reptiles can be someone's first as long as they approach it with true dedication, confidence, and research

[nocturne frigate]

Personally, I feel you shouldn’t have a bare minimum cage unless it’s temporary. Ofc if you do have the minimum then sure, your not a bad owner. But personally I feel people should try to go bigger, for all animals really. But if you can only do the minimum, as long as you can do an amazing job decorating, the minimum is fine

[iron fox]

Honestly mines more of a community thing but people need to work harder on figuring out standard care stuff when researching for a new animal it can be really hard to figure out what’s right because of how many mixed opinions there are

[fervent zephyr]

what if a snake wont eat f/t rodents its just gonna starve

[boreal dirge]

I think it's possible to switch any snake to f/t, though you may have to transition slowly.
If it's a life or death scenario, ok if you go about it carefully and ethically. But for most snakes, it is not a life-or-death scenario and that isn't the case.

[flat ledge]

people should be frowned upon for offering minimalistic, small enclosures for their animals. i don’t think one has the right to collect so many animals just because they think they can keep them in cheap sub-par cages. (i know this is a very broad statement; think snake discovery for example, i know no one’s perfect but i’m not a fan of their simple racks with aspen and a few dollar store plants)

and in all honesty, i believe reptiles should be treated as a truly exotic animal. i know it is unrealistic and would ruin the hobby, but maybe a permit or some prior knowledge of the future keeper (pics of the enclosure, their care practices, etc) as a requirement would be in the best interest.

[iron fox]

Yeah same I love snake discovery but I honestly hate their rack system I always feel bad when I see it

[gritty peak]

Breeders can get away with it, sure. But displaying it to the thousands of viewers gives the impression to some that that is an okay setup for a pet. When it reality, it’s not. And it’s so unfortunate for the animals

Not to say that breeders SHOULD do it. I don’t know enough about breeding honestly. I suppose it’s unreasonable to expect every animal to have a large enclosure. But I wish they did, it would be nice

[flat ledge]

i argue with my mom often about it; she believes that if “a bearded dragon has lived 8+ years eating pellets then who are you to say they are treating it poorly?” and yes, it may be surviving but it is certainly not thriving. after all, this is a living creature and therefore we should be trying to offer it the absolute best we can ||within reason, not everyone can afford to get their leopard gecko a 200 gallon||

[gritty peak]

I agree with what you’re saying. These animals, for the most part, have longer lifespans than many other pets and require different specialised care per species. It’s not a throwaway pet. It’s a big commitment, an expensive one too. Even the more ‘common’ reptiles, like leopard geckos and bearded dragons, require a lot of resources to care for correctly. Theres many of us willing to do those extra steps, but many that aren’t. A ‘vetting’ process, like you said, would be so beneficial especially for the more popular species that I mentioned before. There’s probably some kind of similar process when buying a burmese python, or a tegu, so why not for not a corn snake or beardie?

I don’t know whether it would ruin the hobby honestly. It would turn a lot of people off the idea of getting one, unless they really are keen, which is, like you said, in the animal’s best interest. Also the owners, too. They know what they’re getting in for, and what the animal needs to thrive, not just survive

[gritty peak]

fr. It’s like you can feed a dog purely sausage rolls, it might happen to live to 15 years. Does that mean you should????

[sturdy yarrow]

My most controversial opinion is that animals deserve modern medical care with proper methods for hygiene and screening .

No more hygiene hypothesis. No more naturalistic homeopathic nonsense remedies about vinegar, honey, and sunlight. No more praising naturalistic setups if no disease management has been done and your corn is crapping crypto in a wooden box you can't sanitize.

PCR screening for diseases we've known about for decades. Actual studies. Better supplements and understanding how to administer them.

🔥

[wanton bluff]

Spider. Ball. Pythons

[slow pecan]

not really controversial anymore tbh

[primal trellis]

That I'm okay with cohabitation. Just be smart about it!

[pastel spire]

i mean
it depends on the species

tbh i dont think i have any controversial opinions really

[river lance]

I agree on everything this is perfect can a mod ping this or something

[coral tangle]

I mainly agree with @gleaming flint , if I have to add something :

• why TF are sulcatas and iguanas still sold as pets ?

• And also : if the only thing you are passionate about a species is the morphs you could get, in my opinion you are missing the point. I'm not anti morph if done correctly (I've had several corns and I currently own a morphed BP), however it does get on my nerves to see people ONLY talking about how cool design morphs are or how much they could sell potential offspring (never gonna happen most of the time). I wish people would stop buying cornsnakes, leopard geckos and BP for the wrong reasons

[cursive hemlock]

I'm of the opinion that giant snakes such as anacondas, retics, burms, rocks, and scrub pythons should be harder to get so that an average joe blow on the street can't get them without preperation

[iron fox]

Yeah you should have to get a license or something so they’re harder to get

[cursive hemlock]

Agreed

[spare elm]

That for ALOT of people reptiles wouldn’t be good pets because of the amount of time research and money it takes to properly keep them

[snow tinsel]

• Paperwork should be required for purchasing reptiles
• WC animals should only be sold as breeders to produce CB animals
• Live Rodents and food are not preferred but there’s nothing wrong with feeding correctly sized prey under careful supervision
• Tubs can be just as good as glass enclosures with the right setup

[flat ledge]

im totally with you on the first two

[worn mural]

• Frankly, I think people should have to get a (FREE) license to keep any animal, including more traditional pets, that requires (FREE) testing and certification on care and such. Emphasis on free - if some poor person takes in a stray, they shouldn't be punished, just educated. In addition, getting their certification should allow them PTO, again to ensure that enforcement of the certification doesn't disproportionately affect poorer people.
• I feel like this goes hand-in-hand with the idea that what the exotic pet industry needs is regulation, not bans. This could also be worked into the aforementioned permit system, with (FREE) classes for breeding animals, potentially as a subsidized business to encourage more captive-bred animals as apposed to wild-caught.
• I personally take more of a 'not unless absolutely necessary' stance, but I also understand that it's not exactly something that should be up for regulation, anyways - so like, I'm cool with people who are more relaxed about it. That being said, it absolutely needs to be correctly sized and it absolutely requires careful supervision.
• Honestly, I don't think tubs could ever match up to glass enclosures simply due to sheer size - however, for most animals whose enclosure requirements could be met by a glass container, tubs also tend to work. I still prefer larger enclosures whenever possible, at the very least for medium/large and/or arboreal animals. That being said, I am thinking of tubs that go in racks - I suppose that large plastic storage tubs could easily serve the same purpose. If I knew of a tub rack that was large enough to hold larger animals while giving them vertical room, I think I'd be more of the mindset that yes, tubs can be just as good.
  But yeah my most controversial opinion regarding reptiles is definitely that all pet ownership - especially exotic ownership - should require some kind of licensing process.

[hard elm]

I hate bps. End of story

[opaque escarp]

-Not exactly controversial, but bare minimum is fine if its temporary however if you expect any animal to live its full life in a small enclosure just because "its more efficient/cheap" then you're just silly. Breeders can also afford to buy tubs that are just a little bigger than what they currently have. Really, it wont kill you to spend an extra $10-20 or so on a tub that has optimal floor space

-Cohabitation is fine with certain species but its best to avoid it

-Also not too controversial from what I'm seeing but most large/dangerous reptiles should require a license/permit to own

[gleaming flint]

Can't afford the vet can't afford the pet.

Having a pet is a privilege not a right.